Gun Gripes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2023
- SDI: www.sdi.edu/iv8888
In this video, we cover the topic of short, 7.5" ARs; Are they just glorified 22 Magnums or useful tools? Let us know what you think about shorties in the comments down below.
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It's times like these I miss Barry.
I can hear him now "Stop wasting money on stupid junk and buy a rifle that works."
ayup
I think a lot of us miss him still watch the hi-point destruction video every once and a while.
Wait, did he pass away?
@@pancho4575 It's been a few years
I read that and heard his voice! Haha
This isn't really a AR barrel discussion it's a 5.56 discussion. 300aac is a different question altogether.
Agreed. 556 in anything less that 10.3 seems less than ideal.
Usually when somebody wants to talk about an AR15 chambered in anything other than 5.56, they'll specify what they've got. Since Eric didn't specify another cartridge, the audience knows he's talking about 5.56 by default.
.300 blackout is exists because people wanted something larger than 5.56 but don’t want 9mm. If people have a gun in .300 blackout they usually run a short barrel with a suppressor and subsonics. .300 blackout is a range toy caliber not for serious use and if you do put it in proper rifle setup with a 16 inch barrel 7.62x39 does it better.
@@fatefinger 110 coppers with h110 say otherwise
Listen to the end...they specifically discuss other calibers that do well in shorter barrels.
7.5" AR-15 is a total flash bang grenade and it still has 700 ft lbs of power. If you live away from neighbors, it may not be the best home defense but it's much more powerful than most people think
I would rather have a 10mm, 40sw, 300BLK, or even 9mm AR in 7.5 inches then a 7.5 inch 5.56 Nato.
@@chrissinclair4442at 200 yds, 5.56 is still outperforming those calibers. Demonstrated concepts has solved this particular argument.
7.5 barrels are great for concealment. I’m assuming people aren’t looking for maximum ballistics……but rather maximum concealment in a vehicle or a backpack.
7.5 inch upper 1,900 fps
20 inch upper 3,200fps
Winchester ammo
Yee yee
@@wildboyzzzz catch either of them ..I bet ya can't...
I agree, but thats why I like 300aac with supers!
Bonded softpoints and ballistic tip ammo will still expand out of a 7.5 inch barrel 5.56 gun. They make more ammo for .223/5.56 than M193 and M855.
Also great for home defense 👍🏽
I think a 7.5 inch AR is analogous to taking a 10 lb sledge hammer and shortening the handle down to the length of a 16 oz hammer. It's not made completely useless as a tool, but the scenarios in which it's the best tool become severely limited and it's no longer able to deliver the sort of impact that it was designed for.
Unless you are planning on clearing rooms or engaging targets from inside a vehicle, there's not many situations where a 7.5 inch barrel is more useful than a longer one.
Great description.
Everyone I know with a 7.5 uses it for vehicle and very close quarters . Honestly for me personally I use a 10.5 for a vehicle and close quarters. Still can reach out but close range you're not losing the energy. 10.5 is the go to for my GF and I for urban. I also have a 16" that is longer range and still can be used CQB. The 10.5 has been my go to because of neck and shoulder Injuries. The weight is less and does make a difference for pain. Even while slung.
That was the best way anybody put it lol. Thanks, I’ve been debating building one but even with 300black I wanna a 12 inch
Nailed it (pun intended). Great analogy. For how much you lose vs how little you gain, going below 11.5 just isn't worth it for my estimation.
Couldn't have said it better myself. 👏
Exactly. I made mine specifically for use in an RV. I reload my own ammo for it as well. I use faster burning powders and lighter projectiles. I know I'm giving up nearly 1000 fps but I think my loads will compensate for it.
I use mine for home defense. No recoil, great maneuverability, 30 rounds. I think it depends on what you’re trying to achieve with it.
I got the 12 gauge pump for that.
Hope you have a suppressor
You will go deaf shooting that thing indoors without a suppressor, and even with a suppressor, it would still be extremely loud. Just get a 7-inch 300 blackout with a suppressor.
You can't manuever a 16 inch carbine? Or a 12 inch pistol?
You would never hear again.
My 8"inch 5.56 wasn't built for hunting. It's mounted over my door for home protection with a simple Sig red dot. All my other rifles are 16"-18". Build for purpose and you can never be wrong. Good video 👍🏾
you must not understand ballistics lol why would you want 5.56 going slower out of a shorter barrel for home defense?
@@mojo_dojo_within 100 yards hydrostatic shock will still occur out of virtually any length 4 5.56
@@mojo_dojo_ Does velocity matter when people are breaking in your home? Even a 22 would be good
@@mojo_dojo_ok so get shot by a slow 556 at 10-15 yards with a Vest on and let’s see if ballistics matter 😉
What ammo are you guys getting just joined the 7.5 club
I have a 7.5 inch 5.56 and I only focus on training with it to be as efficient with it as I can just like I do with every other tool I own plus it’s better than nothing 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
i like the 7.5 for a home defense and yard rifle... it works well within those limits
It’s a good bag gun too a 7.5 ar in 223 still hits harder and had better capacity to hit at 200 than a Glock 19
@@wyattterrell agreed. It's a 5.7 alternative
It will blow your ears out inside a house or vehicle.😱👂🏻🙉🎧
@@melissasmess2773 Get a whitt SME. Problem solved.
@@melissasmess2773 Even a handgun will blow your ears out indoors. Once you reach that point, more noise doesn't do more damage, you are already causing permanent damage. One reason a set of electronic ear pro should be right next to the rifle with a blowout kit. It doesn't take any more time, but only gives you advantage.
Yeah, I'm still getting over 700 ftlbs out of my 7.5 so no I definitely wouldn't say it's useless. They are definitely extremely loud and it is like a flashbang going off every time you pull the trigger, but they will still pass through soft body armor and still cause rather nasty wound channels in ballistics gel with the right ammunition. The load that I like for my 7.5 is a 62 grain Gold Dot pushed by CFE 223, and a CCI 450 primer. With that load I am getting about 745 foot pounds of energy, they expand reliably, and usually stop within 20 inches. You are nuts if you think a .22 mag can compare to those numbers. I have a .22 WMR bolt gun with a 20 inch barrel, and unless I am using 28 grain loads I never get consistent shots over 2000 fps. Obviously a 7.5 inch barrel is not ideal, but they are extremely compact and if they are built correctly are perfectly reliable.
How does one measure the energy of a projectile?
@@brkbtjunkie E=M(g)∗BS2/450,437
Where E is the Foot Pounds of Energy (foot-pounds)
M is the mass in grains (grains)
BS is the bullet speed (ft/min)
Yup. People need to stop comparing pistols to rifles. For me my 7.5" is a pdw for contact ranges in tight spaces. If you want to compare it to a PCC fine. But everyone knows that it's not a rifle. Search tier one citizen if you want a practical perspective on 7.5".
@@Ripp_Glavenhammer if you are shouldering it, it is a rifle or a carbine, period. Pistols are for one or two hand use. I'm not talking about how the fed boys define it, I'm talking about the reality of the firearm use. That's what people are comparing the two.
7.5 scars used to Europe every day
Dude shot me with a 7.5". Didn't even notice. It was useless.
I like this new gun gripes format sitting across from each other. Keep up the good work.
If anybody from Brownell's sees this...bring back your retro rifles. Not only do they look cool, but that 20" rifle performs fantastic (I'll refer you to this episode of gun gripes lol).
they dont give a shit about cool or terminal performance. They care about profit performance which clearly wasn't there
I think psa owns the company that did the retro receiver forging now. That being said they are planning on a retro line of rifles.
PSA owns H&R and NoDak Spud now and are planning A1 clones. Closest thing to a real Vietnam M16 you could hope to find brand new.
I was pretty sad when they discontinued them, I always wanted to pick one up just never ended up doing it.
I went to Brownells HQ and told them personally! Wish i would have bought more of them!
Just finished building out my 12.5" 5.56 AR. It was a barrel length that gave me the best in terms of compact size and performance. I love it.
I made the call at 11.5 when I built mine, if I had to start over I'd probably go 12.5 also. The maneuverability gained by losing that 1 inch isn't worth the velocity lost imo.
If that’s for self defense I feel for you.
@@sqwk2559 it's an american thing.
12.5 is the perfect length shorty 5.56 AR in my opinion. You're not giving up too much muzzle velocity, and accuracy you can still make pretty tight groups out to those medium long ranges.
@@KamikazKid 14.5 is my minimum
0:12 that creepy barrel rise told me this was going to be a great episode.
Eric, you are looking slim. Keep up the good work. Love listening to these when cleaning some firearms.
A 7.5" 5.56 AR with a 4 port brake is hilarious at indoor ranges. Tons of utility there.
A different kind of room clearing.
Shooting indoors is actually the most fun I've had with a 7.5" barrel! It's a good novelty for a mag.... haha
Yeah, ik
Try a single chamber muzzle brake. I call it my "friend maker."
@@TeslaP3D Thanks, I sincerely appreciate the constructive advice. I am however hooked on suppressors. The only firearms I don't use them on are my carry handguns and shotguns. They make shooting so much more pleasant. If the gun/load combo has enough recoil that suppressor is insufficient for recoil mitigation I either don't buy it or sell it shortly after buying. I have a K98 G33/40 mountain carbine that I got as a gift last Christmas and use it for fondling purposes only since it would be rude to sell it and ruder yet to thread the barrel. I am still surprised that they didn't switch to intermediate chamberings sooner, I suppose that not everyone is/was a recoil pansy like me.
My favorite 5.56 gun has a 20" barrel, but I also have a 16" mid-length. I'm currently building a 7.5" to run 300BO subsonic/suppressed.
Found a guy why pulled projectiles from 762/39 rounds removed a few grains (can’t remember) then re inserted. Used cheap steel. The video is on YT. Works great because 300blk cost so dam much. 762 is so much more cheap.
I have an 8" and a 10" blackout.
Both stay subsonic with 220s, but the 10" gets over 100 fps more than 8" with 110s. If you're only shooting 100 and in, probably won't matter, but it might matter for you past that
@@theimmortal4718I have the same, I like my 8in a little better since it's a little shorter and a side charger so it's not as much gas to the face
@@416cubes4not anymore
Man, everything Chad said was spot on! I have two 7.5”, a few 10.5”, some 11.5” and other various barrel lengths. While my 7.5” with blast cone on the end is a real blast to shoot, the musket style fire ball definitely doesn’t have a practical purpose. And boy, it is violent to shoot with parts slamming about. I also had to test quite a few springs and buffers to get it to run reliably. I definitely wouldn’t stake my life on it though. While I do enjoy the 10.5”, the 11.5” has become my favorite to shoot.
I have a 7.5" I use as an alternate tanning booth - It's flash will "tan" (sunburn) your arms nicely. Still fun and oddly reliable. It would be suitable for "defense" (whatever that is). Concussion volume is also a deterrent and keeps people away. Use a 7.5" in an indoor range and watch everyone clear out of the room. It does work for keeping people away from you as well for home defense - everyone walks away deaf.
Combination flash bang and AR variant. I have heard 7.5s, they're loud on an indoor range. Our 10.5s get looks but 7.5 is a flamethrower and concussion level thumb especially without a directional brake.
I have one also. Never had a single jam or malfunction.
@@williamrunner6718 I know a few dudes with 7.5s and even suppressed they function flawlessly.
My 7.5 is great, but honestly is more of a novelty. No brace and a forearm like what chat shows in the video. Agree 100% that the muzzle flash and concussion is enough to clear a room and make people in an indoor range come to check out the big boom stick. Flashbang and AR combination is a great description! Lol.
I’m definitely not a fan of the gas tube length but I built mine from a stripped lower and have had zero problems over a few years now.
Edit:
Forgot to mention that the recoil is comparable to a 22LR or even less, not a surprise considering all the powder that isn’t burned when the projectile leaves the barrel.
I have a shorty "pistol" ar. The fireball is real. The gasses make my long hair jump with each shot. The sound is much more intimidating and loud than any of my other guns
Good description on the weapon you guys are viewing on film. Take care and be safe guys. See you on your next video.
Good talk guys my favorite is the 20” but I’ve rocked a 11.5” for a while loss of range and velocity are real but it’s what your gonna use it for that counts y’all did a good job covering this topic
Love these guys, the first channel that I ever subscribed to.
Built an 8.5" for the wifey.... Exclusively run soft point .223 out of it. It's a rifle round, out to 150/200 yards. That's all we were expecting out of it, when we built it. If she's gotta pull it out of the car, and go to town, in those distances, it'll get her home I'm sure. I'll run 5.56 out of 16", and a 12.5" I have .
Shorty ARs are "across the room" guns. At that range, it'll still do a number on you. As long as you know that's what you're getting out of it, then it fills the bill. Don't try to force the gun to do something out of it's performance envelope.
@@armynurseboy While he didn't use the term specifically, he's talking about using it as a PDW. That assumes some things doesn't it? For instance, would his wife want to press an attack if there are kids in the car? Or would she be happy seeing the guy hobbling to cover? If the purpose is quickly and easily deploy a defense tool, then this makes sense because hitting him anywhere will diminish his ability to be a threat and increase her ability to break contact.
@Terrence Cox well, short of SHTF/Mad Max Apocalypse, all civilian firearms are "PDWs". The vast majority of civilian self-defense shootings are inside 25yds, with most inside 25 feet. You would be hard-pressed to justify to a jury how your 200yd shot was "self-defense." So this obsession with "well, the ballistics sucks at 100yds" is really silly in most cases. Now, do i have guns that can shoot out that far (and past) and still hit with exceptional terminal effect? Absolutely. But I'm not going to be wrapped around the axle that my 7.5" AR starts getting a bit anemic at distance. That's not what it's intended for.
@@armynurseboy It sounds like we agree.
@@armynurseboy right......its for that if someone gets past the dogs. . then game on...enough to blast thru the door...556 or 300...
7.5" is more than respectable
I’ve been a huge 7.5” advocate for a while after talking to a certain person at BA. They sent me an upper and I ran it through the ringer and became a fan. 7.5 is great with fmj, you get 100-200 range easily. With proper target placement, you can reach 450 and it will still penetrate a ballistic dummy. There’s a secret with muzzle devices…the fcd 1615. It’s a short three prong. Not crazy flash, not crazy muzzle blast, easy in a vehicle.
I love my Aero Precision 7.5
It's my go to home defense gun.
No power over 100 yards.
Would not have 7.5 556 for home defense. Not a setup I would trust my family's life to a gun that may not shoot 2 times consecutively when I really need it to do so...
Thank you for understanding they (short barrel AR's) need muzzle devices. I'm tired of people shooting next to me jarring my teeth and leaving me flash blind. The ones with "good" muzzle devices aren't bad, just a little annoying. The others are for blinding and deafening the bad guys (and your shooting neighbors on the next lane.).
I have three 7.5 ar 300blackout,7.62x39,.308 win…a gun is a gun were humans not the terminator they all will get the job done
Tbe job I do I carry a 5.5 INCH barrel in a vehicle with 77 grain hand loads.. It's has take down power at 150 yards. I've carried it for 3 years with no issues. But this is a specific gun for the job.
If by useless you mean a flame throwing fun gun, then sure! My FM16 with the side charging handle is a blast to play with
Great points Fellas!
I love the breakdown of why a short barrel ar15 isn’t too practical. I always knew that but now I know if I balance that short platform with the proper ammo i can get better results.I also agree with that 11.5 length being the shortest you’d go to still get atleast 2700fps from 5.56 .
Thank you for this info education is power !💯
Practical for what?
If you are not using FMJ, then you don't need 2700 fps.
Guys, I really enjoy this new format of yours. Keep it coming.
still quotin ole Barry. Brings back alot of memories watching you guys when I was younger, I appreciate that ✌️
I built a 7.5” 556. It looks really cool but I very rarely shoot it anymore. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t go with 7.5”.
Maybe consider a caliber swap? For example, 300 blackout should be fine with a short barrel.
@@michaelblacktree I have a 300 BLK, 10.5” and several others
it would be good to mention in more detail where a short AR is still usable and how to validate and choose ammo for it
Hang it on your wall. If you want something that tiny get a pistol caliber subgun
@@blakekenley1000Well if you want a bit more sting than pistol or subby, then they would be useful. It will also allow you to reach out to a sweet spot somewhere further than pistol range but less than a rifle more accurately and reliable.
@@Goodgunplayyes but you’re shooting a 22 caliber projectile at 2000 fps. You’re literally shooting 22.
@@jonboy9734 Not all 22’s are equal. These tumble upon impact and create a more disruptive wound channel.
Great video guys! I chose a 13.7" with a welded muzzle end that gets me to 16". it is zeroed for 77gr razor core but I've shot other brands of 77gr and the zero is close. With a Primary Arms 3x prism optic. I was making hits on IPSC C zone targets at 400 yds (from a bench, seated). Very pleased with this set up. I've seen interesting results with 12.5" there are several videos floating around where folks using 12.5s with SPR type set ups and like Charlie mentioned well out to 700m.
I love when you guys mention berry!
Never forgotten
I'll stick with a 16" or longer where it comes to 5.56/223. In other calibers I may consider shorter, since they usually still bring more authority than a 556, even from a shorter barreled platform.
@@es4583 I 100% agree with you. I purchased a 7.5” .223 as low velocity self defense. 55gr hornady express polymer tips. I got a 16” .308 if I need velocity
@Fort Nite My 7.5 is loaded out with 55gr federal frangible rounds. I share walls, and would rather the round vaporize inside bad guys instead of going through walls.
@@that1electrician tf was ur point….
@@that1electrician It is hard to choose a good load for apartment living. I ran a Winchester 1300 Defender 12ga, first two shells were #6 bird loads. The rest were Federal #1 buckshot.
I haven't looked into or seen any videos of folks doing sheet rock tests with the 5.7 V-Max bullets. My suspicion though, is the lower velocity wouldn't have the bullet frag out as quickly as you might hope.
Would be worth looking into. In a panic bullets will miss their intended target.
@@FortNite-fb5wm the point is I had the same thing in mind with my 7.5 build.
Tf is your problem, brah?
We need more 10mm carbines, that loading is perfect for a short barrel.
7-8'' PCC in 10mm pcc is what I would go with if I chose a pistol caliber and it was bigger than a pistol
This is the way! I’m addicted to best mm.
I plan to pick up a Banshee in 10mm and test it using the crazy Liberty ammo and the Underwood XD and XP. I also want to run it head to head against the 7.5” 223/556 using the proper ammo.
My EDC is a G20 which is convenient when it comes to mags.
Since Glock doesn’t love us enough to put out the factory sticks in 10mm and 45acp, I’ve been testing a box full of those SGM and ETS mags for a few years. Surprisingly even with abuse, zero cleaning and leaving them fully loaded over the years… not one failure yet. Doesn’t mean they are perfect, but aftermarket is pretty much our only option for 30 round 10mm mags.
@@RealtyPro7 Kriss makes an extended mag thingy that goes onto the bottom of Glock mags. I would get CMMG but its a little pricey, looking for something more around the 1 grand range.
I like different length barrels for different reasons. The 7.5 is plenty living in the inner city. The 10.5 is more fun to shoot outside and the 16 is better for rural areas. Each has it's purpose.
Imagine shooting that inside your apartment… goodbye hearing.
@@JordanJimmyDavison I hope I never have to use it indoors. It's definitely loud even with hearing protection.
It’s a flash bang with a handle. I really enjoyed mine in short bursts
Its not a matter of it being plenty...Once you take 5.56 below a certain velocity, you are shooting a glorified .22
There are other issues of twist rate, stabilization and bullet weight that that we wont get into..At across the room distances it may not matter as much but it is still a consideration.
5.56 is a very small diameter round. Without reliable fragmentation of the round (which occurs reliably at speeds above 2500 fps) you are punching very small holes. This is a bit of oversimplification, as I certainly would not want to be shot regardless but it plays a large part in the effectiveness of the round.
People are free to spend their money how they wish, but personally the trade offs are not worth the 3-4 inch shorter barrel.
@@CWHolleman 5.56 is glorified .22. Personally I prefer 30 caliber chamberings but, the wife and kids are more proficient with .223/5.56
Excellent vid, as always. I enjoyed learning a lot more about short barrel AR performance.
The 77gr to 700m caught my interest! I'm going to load some of them to try it out.
Get us a velocity average as well so we can work up a chart and see how little energy there is out there.
I love my 7.85” AR chambered in 5.56, but it is more of a PDW/bag gun option. It is loud and obnoxious, but it gets the job done. I mainly carry a PDW chambered in .300 Blackout running supersonic rounds as my bag gun.
I like my 7.5" with the frangible bullets, I load mine to 2400fps. But yea it is a short range weapon and loud as all get out.
Depends on the use. I have a couple (as well as a 8.5" 308 PTR....) because they are hilarious fun to shoot. Fun is a use case.
Maybe my diamondback AR 7.5 was a fluke, but I have had no issues even right out of the box, and that's running cheap steel cartridge ammo Wolf, Tulammo and Red army standard. I purchased mine knowing it was not going to be a long distance ar but to have the advantage in a gun fight at closer ranges over someone who might have a 9mm, .40 etc.
Bet it fails b4 1k rounds
@@kalanipitmon7817 Bet it don’t.
Chump change 😂. Running steel ammo in a 7.5. Releasing clouds of unburt piss powder fire balls
They just have a great personality
uwu
I asked a girl what she thought was more deadly, a ar15 or 6 inches. She said a ar15, so I said well let me show u how deadly 6 inches can be.
@@9770G I told her 2 inches is hell at 90mph.
Been Debating switching my truck gun from a 7.5 in 5.56 this video pops up the next day great content!
I still say those green tips in a 7.5 is exactly what you would want in a situation involving light vehicles
Swap the barrel go 300 blackout
Awesome! Been researching this all day.
Yo Eric! You're looking great dude, keep up the good work
That's what's great about the AR, might as well build one with each available barrel length. I've built 7.5, 10.5, 14.5, 16 mid, 16 carbine, 18, 20, 24. Having the resources and time to dial in each of these builds will make you a better "Gunsmith". My go-to is still a 16" Mid-length running M855.
Good to see the team in action. I am of the M16A2-Chosin range PI MCRD. It's amazing all that we can do with the AR platform. Customization, practical and unpractical. Love the content.
Awesome discussion guys love the channel
I have a 7.5” that I have tuned to work perfectly but it was purposely built for maximum stowability and concealment. It also has a Dolos and a LAW folder on it, too. I run Speer Gold Dot ammo and it’s a bad dude. Also, to mitigate the flashbang at the end, I have a PWS CQB and it works flawlessly.
I love my 7.5 AR. EO Tech EXPS-2 HWP & Streamlight TLR 2 and Noveske KX5 flash suppressor. Nice compact pistol (according to ATF) chambered in a rifle cartridge.
You could have saved a ton of money and have an more effective firearm by buying a hi capacity 9mm pistol and loading it up with 124gr Federal HST.
@@cameronwells82 Wrong.
@@James2001 Yes, you are wrong.
@@cameronwells82 I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone demonstrate their room temperature IQ better than you just did. Congrats.
I haven't seen a 22 mag penetrate 3a armor, I have seen it happen from a 5.56 7.5 inch
Who wears 3a armor?
@MannElite soft armor from levels 2a to 3a are the primary form of ballistic protection used by the vast majority of professionals in the United States who wear ballistic armor on a daily basis for work. This ranges from security guards, to correctional officers, to police on the local, state, and federal levels.
Many recent mass shooters have also been wearing soft armor, according to reports.
You can buy 3a armor with a carrier for like 150 bucks on ebay.
If you aren't preparing to potentially have to defend against ANY type of threat, including armored assailants, your training venue needs to change from this day forward.
@@donesixfour I know this, that is my point, almost all of this is correct except for mass shooters wearing it, I haven't seen any reports of mass shooters wearing 3a..... You can buy level 4 plates for $99..... the only people wearing 3a are professionals like you said, why would you want to consider shooting against that?? Just seems like a very small and niche advantage to be able to shoot through 3a, when I only seen it worn by cops, and most other people are running around with 3, 3+, or 4.... Same thing with 5.7, everyone gets so excited that it can defeat 3a...... okay great? So now you can shoot "professionals who wear armor every day"? not the best selling point..... I'd consider the ability for standard velocity M855 to defeat level 3 steel much more impressive.
@MannElite I have never seen m855 defeat steel, only xm193 from a 20 inch barrel. I can cite Clint Smith as a source. He teaches that mass shooters have been wearing armor. Many news sources cite that more than 20 mass shooters ofver the past decade have been wearing body armor.
I am not advocating violence against authority, merely that soft armor is VERY available to them, and others, including the private sector, who I trust even less. Just being open, and I have no qualms with you, shoot whatever you want, I own various 5.56 platforms with varying barrel lengths, I made my original comment to refute the statement in the video that 5.56 out of a 7.5 is like a .22mag
@@donesixfour Well full disclosure, I've never actually done the experiment myself. I've shot through cheap steel targets with all sorts of rounds, never actually shot a piece of NIJ certified armor to test it, so you could be right, I respect Clint's opinion. I thought I remember seeing a chart on AR500 website that showed what their armor would defeat, and I thought I remember seeing that M855 would defeat their regular level 3.... but it might have been M193 now that I think about it, you could be right...
As far as slow 5.56 vs .22 mag I generally agree with you, however I see their point. Is a 7.5" 5.56 AR really that practical? If its purpose is for defense or fighting and not just a plinker, why not get it in 300BO instead? I would be under the impression that 7.5" 5.56 even shooting 77gr is probably closer to 22 mag then to 300BO 7.5" shooting 208-220gr. Whats your opinion on that? If you were going to buy a 7.5" upper why not just get it in 300BO?
When going that short, 55 or 60 grain vmax works out Great for getting that expected terminal performance out of the cartridge.
Eric was trying to keep it in! 💀 Love the professionalism from Eric but chad got em!!! 13:42
7"-11" is where your PCC's come in. I have an AR in 45acp with an 11" barrel, blowback operated with a 5.5" permanently mounted flash hider. It had originally a 16" barrel but I found it was loosing velocity at that length. I found 11" to be about perfect and using 32 round M3 Grease Gun mags is great fun.
Cool. What brand AR 45 is it? I want to get one too.
Care to give detailed specs?
I been interested in the 45acp AR concept.
What kind of velocities are you getting out of the 11" barrel?
@@markzuckerberg3128 I was thinking about going with a 450 bushmaster 16 inch barrel but I wanted to drop that actually down to a 12 inch. But here’s the kicker I did a lot of research and you can run45 ACP rounds out of the 450 bushmaster and that was my whole thinking behind it. I don’t need the 450for hunting Big game just small coyotes and miscellaneous small creatures and target practicing. So I didn’t need or don’t need that 450 round the 45 ACP will actually work in the upper and go right on in any mil spec. I haven’t found a 45 ACP upper street from the manufacture you’re gonna have to build one. But I don’t like the rear charging handle I like the side charging handle and the only one that has that right now is Bear Creek Arsenal or North Carolina!
@@clinkerclint With CFE Pistol or Win Autocomp (slower powders) and a 230gr cast and powder coated SWC I'm seeing just a shade over 1200fps. 255's work good also. The biggest thing I like is the extreme accuracy. 2" groups at 50 yards is the norm.
The 1st Gen IWI Tavor is 26 inches long with an 18" barrel. The same length as an AR with a 10.5 inch barrel and collapsable stock (may be off depending on muzzle device - but not enough to get excited about).
If you want a shorter platform, there are other options out there besides going shorter than 16.5 on an AR.
Eric and the new setup look amazing
Opportunity is why I have a 7.5". I just got a good deal but then I put it together for a specific purpose. Protection in my home which isn't very big & my yard close to my home, so 75yds. max. It serves the purpose. I have a 16" for the other stuff.
I have a 7.5" that has been accurate and quite reliable!
It is fun, loud, lightweight and very portable.
I feel it is a great 100yds and in truck/car gun.
How effective do you feel it is for that purpose and a bit more distance if necessary?
I'm thinking it is a bit more than a hot 22 mag?
Thoughts?
Bought a complete DelTon 7.5” AR and is completely tuned from the factory. Buffer spring and gas port come together to work without issues. Put a Krinkov type brake on it. Is it loud? Yes. But! That brake really directs it forward. And I like it a lot. Very accurate. Very light. Very maneuverable.
Loud can be a disadvantage. But it can be intimidating along with what a gun is intended for.
And I like mine. My buddy has a 10” and I thought it was silly. Then I bought this. Hey it was a good deal. But we both like this Delton.
@@whereswaldo5740 I have shot a well made factory 7.5 556,with the pistol gas system and a forward flash break. I have also shot various Uzis. and 30 Carbines testing for timed multi target hits, 0-100yards. My best rounds, and those of my exmilitary brother came with the 7.5 using a quality red dot. Oddly enough, it loved Israli Green Tip, plus generally patterning really well with everything but Wolf. Now, you'd be deaf forever if fired inside a room, or a car, but if rapid fire, accurate multi target defense was needed, the described weapon is the best I've every used, and I have been shooting for 50 years.
Definitely is a bit more than a 22 mag, but not by too much. The 10.3 barrel will only reliably fragment and do its job at around 75 yards and in, so i'd be guessing the 7.5 would only really fragment within 30 because of the huge velocity dropoff between the two.
When it comes to rifle rounds, fragmentation is the reason that little 55 grain bullet will do damage that even a 230 grain .45 acp round wont do. This can be remedied to a certain extent with soft points, but maybe another 10 yards or so.
without the bullet deforming or fragmenting, you're pretty much just shooting them with a 22 magnum like you said, it's going to poke holes and not "blow holes" out of things if you can understand what i'm trying to say.
A regular .45 weighs 4 times as much as a 5.56 round, but what makes the bigger holes in soft tissue? A 7.5 barrel is great for the application you're using it in, but everyone should know its limitations
Good thoughtful reply that I will think more about! Thank you!
I agree completely. My shortest uppers is a 14.5" faxon. I've been looking at the 12.5" HM defense uppers also. Another reason is their from my old hometown my orange Ohio. We've been living in Southern SC just about 2 yrs now. I know hm makes quality stuff plus has some of those original engineering as well
7.5 still gets the needed velocities (2000 + fps) to cause cavitation effects on soft tissue, but ammo choice is extra important when you get shorter and shorter barrels.
Just switched my 10.5 over to 300 blackout, one of the reasons was the terminal performance of 5.56 out of a 10.5.
My first ar was a 16" PSA. Then I went to a 10.5" so my wife could handle a rifle a bit better. At the end of the day, both had govt profiles and were unnecessarily front heavy. Now I have a 14.5 mid weight, tapered and fluted barreled upper from bcm which is just so great. Has plenty of poke at 200yds, which is the longest range I have, very unlike the 10.5" and is much more wieldable than the 16". Yay for non govt profiles barrels!
OBTW - I like your new studio format!
Great discussion on the barrel length issue of 5.56 AR rifles. Thank you
12.5 seems to be a magic spot for compact size with solid performance. Look at the 9 hole reviews Gordon carbine and see how well it performs on their tests. I agree with chad about 11.5 being the shorted I would go for a build. 11.5 has better velocity that 10.5 and something like 40% more dwell time than a 10.5 for 1 inch you gain extra reliability performance and capability over a 10.5
I have two cases of the 5.56 FBI load (62 grain TBBC loaded at 5.56 pressure) in my stash, and it works wonderfully even out of my 10.5 inch pistol. Out of a 16 inch barrel it works much better at longer distance of course, but honestly this should be a discussion about which cartridge design and bullet design works best for which barrels.
M193 won’t work very well or even at all in a 7.5 inch barrel as it probably won’t fragment at all past 15 yards, but if you ran a 64 grain PowerPoint or fusion MSR 62 grain it would absolutely still have the chance to expand, albeit within a much lower distance threshold. But the 5.56 black hills 50 grain TSX round will absolutely be devastating out of an 8.5 inch barrel. Expanding bullets still work in shorter barrels, while fragmenting bullets work much better in longer barrels.
Good gripe btw
M193 wont even work at all? Like it becomes confetti?
@@ccsniper it will, but the fbit3m/tactical bonded softpoint ammo will open up and expand all the way down to 1800-1900 fps. So even out of a 10.5 inch barrel, the fbit3 loading is still extremely effective out to at least 100-200 yards.
@@ccsniper My steel targets don’t care, it all disintegrates on impact. Love my 71/2” on my personal range lots of fun. I have other guns for long range or sniper duty :))
I like 20" and 18" alot. Had an 11.5 that shot extremely smooth but it would barely cycle cheap ammo. (BA barrel) Ended up going with 14.7 pinned and welded. Pretty happy with that for my "short" 556.
Thanks guys this definitely help me make a better decision, really appreciate this.
I'm in the middle of a 10.5" build. I haven't totally settled on that length or bought the barrel yet. This is fuel for thought. Thanks guys.
10.5/10.3 is about as short as you want to go. I've got a Mk18 upper build I did a few years back.. it's still my favorite rifle and has performed flawlessly but I "built" it knowing it would suppressed for 99% of its use. If that was not a consideration I'd honestly say an 11.5/12.5 would serve you far better. Personally my next build will be a 13.7 pin/weld.
@CWHolleman I thought about that and read up on it a bit. In my mind? May as well do 16" at 12" and up. I'm in agreement on 10" being the shortest I'd want. That's in my mind. It's like a steel trap. Things wander in and get all mangled. I just ordered my 10.5 PSA upper. I need to get a proper buffer for it too, but everything else is already here. If I don't like it, I'll just swap the barrel and gas tube later.
Change to 300 blk and you’ll be fine.
@01MIKUrocks01 Last thing need is another caliber.
I built a 10.5" pistol 2 years ago and love it. sits under the bed and i shoot it far more than my 16" rifle. easier to take to the range and everyone who shoots it thinks it's cool as hell. still tosses a 2' fire ball, but looking to get a suppressor soon
Change my mind A 7.5 556 ar15 beats any 5.7 carbine
Can’t be done 😂
Will the 5.7 be more quiet? If so there's benefits to that indoors.
The 5.7 can be in a smaller package.
And there are the two 5.7s that use standard 50 round magazines.
agreed, not because its ballistically better, but because ammo is cheap as shit.
@@Khundryl The only leg to stand on in this debate is the weight of the ammo. 700 rounds of 5.7 = 210 rounds of 5.56 (combat load as a benchmark) The 5.7 will have less concussion and muzzle flash so it’s a much more enjoyable experience but it’s still a supersonic round.. So, less signature from the 5.7 but still the crack. The FN PS90 is 26.23” and if you form 1 it to SBR and run it as a true (semi) P90 you can bring it down to 19.88”… The 7.5” AR will run around 24” so about 4” longer (she said that’s a lot) than the NFA SBR P90 and 2” shorter than a PS90. With a 5.56 PMAG D-60 or better yet a KCI double drum 100 round mag far surpasses the 5.7 50 round max mag size for the FN P/PS90 substantially. Ballistically the advantage goes to the 5.56 all day and maybe 2 days more if you run the 10.39” SBR P90. Are there better barrel lengths ballistically for 5.56? Yes, every barrel length in 5.56 is better than a 7.5”... Is the 7.5” combat effective? I don’t know 😂 But what I do know is I’ve seen first hand what it will do to armadillo (I ranch black Angus, and I eradicate the invasive species of armadillos any chance I get to protect my cattle). Armadillos have the 7th toughest skin of all animals on earth. From personal experience a 5.56 from a 7.5” barrel (125ish yards and in) is not only an ethical kill, but it is devastating. I’d be very interested to hear from anyone with first hand experiences of 5.7 that stumbles across this.. Side note, would I take my 7.5” to a gun fight? No, I have an 18” for that imaginary situation. ^ The audiobook is available on apple 😂😂
@@johnconner5348 but you have to buy the D60 separately.
Thanks for info. Stopped me from making a mistake.
Nice video love watching your guys video thanks for sharing 👍
I converted mine to a 22lr. Pissed off a lot of people before then. Lol
For 5.56 it loses a drastic amount of ballistics below 11.5” so for me i built a 12.5” AR for CQB and in terms of effectiveness of caliber. 300aac is a different topic imp
Good timing on this video. I was excited about the SCAR 15P but I think FN dropped the ball with the 7.5" barrel. They should have made MK18 competitor for those of us who are not interested in the AR15 platform.
I had a 7.5”. Key word, HAD, the sound was brutal even with hearing protection on. I put a flaming pig brake on it to try and help direct the sound away. It didn’t help. Just made cool fireballs.
Lol why do people all of the sudden get dumb when it comes to shorter barrels? Why would you put the flaming pig on a 7.5 inch barrel and think it's a good idea?
You did say some years ago if you could have any gun in the world, it would be a SIG 552 and those have 8.9" barrel. Do you still feel the same way? I use a special loading for my SIG 553 with an 8.9" barrel.
My favorite type of AR platform rifle is the Colt 723. I love the fixed M16A1 Carry Handle Upper that still has all the bells & whistles like Ejection Door, Brass Deflector & Forward Assist. Those are the best Uppers, and the Colt 723 has it!
For 223/556, 10.5 is what I prefer for my pistols because it keeps it in the carbine length gas system. I have only had 1 build that short stroked, but with a buffer spring swap, it ran perfectly with no other issues as of yet with about 800 pills down the tube so far
Whats your opinion on Springfield's Saint Victor 7 1/2"?? I have one and love it. No reliability issues in running at all. I shoot M855 and XM193 all the time along with Russian made .223.
Mine has been rock solid too
Yup! No issues whatsoever! Even with rusky ammo!
Knowing what 223/5.56 intended for I.e. speed/velocity…10 years ago I still decided to build a 7.5 AR for simply the reason just because I wanted to. This was around the time at pistols were becoming popular. Built it and brought it to the range after zeroing and messing with some heavier buffers I brought it work just fine, and really got a kick out of the fireballs and getting looks at the range like I just lit off a cannon😂. Funny thing though happened I apparently shot out the barrel after maybe 1000rounds with maybe 7-8 trips to the range over the course of say 5 years. It had a stainless steal bull barrel from who made it idk but distributed by “red x arms” wound up replacing it with a chf barrel and had no problems since. Now yes I do consider it a range toy but if I “had to” defend myself in close quarters I’d use it…would make the bad guys go def and blind them with a huge fireball (along with myself) but It’d still work. Also never had any malfunctions of any kind out of it with now thousand of rounds it eats everything.
I own several AR platforms, including a 7.5 inch .223 wylde. It would be my go to post apocalypse car gun, I'd only trust xm193 or Speer gold dot soft point, or sierra game king, maybe civil defence.
Xm193 from a car with that barrel starts tumbling and still creates a devastating wound cavity. The 2 expanding rounds create amazing wound channels, and the civil defence is basically made for short barrel ars
Bear creek arsenal sells good quality 50 beowulf/12.7x42 uppers. Accurate barrels too. I have a 16inch side charger, which would be good with the vers 50 can. Looking back, id get the standard upper for faster disassembly.
My S&W M&P 8" (might be 8.5" can't remember) is what I keep in my truck. I've only put a couple thousand through it, but I've never had an issue with it. I've considered getting one with 10.5" for the house. Maybe while prices on AR pistols are low I'll grab one. But for a truck gun, the small ones are easier to hide. Thanks for the tip on the ammo though. I'll definitely check out those.
Put together .300 and 5.56 both 7.5" part by part and different manufacturers. Zero issues both right out the box. 😎
I've never really felt like I needed a shorter than 16 inch barrel
Course I kicked in doors with a 20 so 16 feels like an sbr to me
I have a CZ Bren 2Ms 8 inch AR pistol and love it.
Its not practical at all, I'm sure the bullet velocity sucks but it's a damn fun gun to shoot. Stock trigger is great, it handles nicely and with a brace and it's pretty accurate.
Sometimes things don't need a purpose, they just need to be fun.
Not to mention the slower speeds are easier on your steel targets without having to shoot two hundred yards 😅
I haven’t hunted game with an AR at all, but I’ve been a law enforcement officer hunting bad people for many years. The only rifle I took on my bad guy hints has been my LWRC piston driven AR with 14.6” barrel and a welded on AAC blackout muzzle device. I’ve never attached a suppressor but I have a light, sling and aimpoint H1 red dot. Thankfully I never pulled the trigger with a person in my sights, but I’m confident had I needed to, it would’ve worked.
For me, going shorter than 14.5 means switching to 300 blk. Even in a 14.5 I like to run some premium bullets if I've got it staged for any serious purpose.
Ya if going shorter than that swap cartridges 300 or 7.62x39 or 350 legend or something anything with heavy grains
That's way overkill. 10.3 is the most common sbr length because it's as short as you can go and still do what the platform needs to do. Special Ops used it to great success for decades with regular ammo. Better ammo makes it much better, but its not anywhere near unusable with regular 55 grain. Anything shorter than 10.3, like even a 9.5 and you GREATLY diminish bullet stability and velocity.
300 blackout out of anything over a 9" barrel would be outperformed by a similar length 556 barrel. 10.3 or 12.5 300 blackout isn't any better than the same length in 223/555.
The rule of thumb is anything over 8.5 in 300 blackout is kind of unnecessary, and anything shorter than 10.3/10.4 in 5.56 is not going to have the effects you want
I once thought as these gentlemen do. I thought that ballistically a 556 out of such a short barrel is useless. Then I saw a video of a guy who made a really good point. It's ballistically equivalent to a 5.7x28, and people still buy those. It's better than the 5.7 in that the ammunition is cheaper more common. On top of that the magazines and equipment are interchangeable with your existing AR-15. .... The guy made a really good point.
I mean you do what u wanna do with ur gun tbh it’s good for as many ppl to own a gun as possible especially in these times where liberals are tryna have our guns taken away I like to fire pistol calibers out of a barrel that short in my opinion cause it’ll increase the performance of that smaller round as much as possible and good for home defense my opinion is that if I’m using 5.56 I’m looking for 2900+ fps of velocity and just the full performance of said round for maximum penetration and all the good stuff actually I hear 300 aac blackout is also pretty good for shorter barrels but even then I wouldn’t go much shorter than 10in on a rifle cartridge but do as you’d like 👍 hope u have fun with ur gun
@@dariodicarlo8745 I don't have a 556 under 10 in personally. I also can't take credit for the point that was made as I got it from a TH-camr whose name escapes me at this point. Nonetheless it was a good point. I think Eric himself fired and enjoyed the cmmg 5.7. considering the cost of the 5.7, he might have been better off shooting a short barrel 556 and had just as much fun with a shorter barrel.
@@troythalheimer160 its a fair point you make within itself but I honestly wouldn’t opt for either myself and that’s just my personal preference more than anything I don’t really get behind the 5.7 at all it’s expensive and dosent really help me for anything much other than penetrating vests which I have no use for with that cartridge cause as you say I can do that with 5.56 easily and many other rounds and also correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t believe 5.7 has the track record of shattering on impact or anything crazy like 5.56 was designed to do I mean it’s a cool idea the 5.7 but it’s just not for me personally and as for 5.56 just my personal preference I enjoy getting maximum performance which is why I only fire it out of at least a “16 inch barrel
@@dariodicarlo8745 I agree. I look at the 5.7 as a 223 short. It's only redeeming characteristics or that you can put it in a pistol, and it weighs less.
@@troythalheimer160 i suppose you could say that yes personally I still prefer pistol calibers like 9mm or 45 cause either way a pistol is a backup gun to me if I’m in trouble enough to need to penetrate armor a pistol is only a backup until I get my hands on my rifle
I was shooting my ATI OMni in 300 BO today worked fine it will shoot anything, weighs 4.5 lb with 30 rds loaded. I was running 110 to 178 match bullets. All of them went into less than 3".
I have the 16” right now, and I want the 20” for next one I think. Maybe 11.5-12.5” sometime if I want to make a cqb home defense with a suppressor. Although at that point I might as well get a bullpup which I enjoy anyway and get the longer barrel
I have to say I have an IWI Tavor X95 and it is as long as a 10.3 AR SBR with the stock collapsed, and it is better balanced. I do like the manual of arms on the AR much better.
Love my X95. Because it’s in a communist state with a 29” minimum length I had to get it with the 18” barrel and a large (but effective) pinned muzzle device. As set up it just makes 29” with 1/8” extra to spare. But that’s still short for what it is. And man does it run! I have the 9mm conversion kit but have never tried it out.
My 7.5 7.62x39 has never malfunctioned I run 154 and 196 and it is great!
Hornady just released its 255grn. (yes, 255grn.) Subsonic 762x39. Should be everywhere in about a month.
@@almaadams3631 I can’t wait
I havent checked in a while, but Phase 5 Tactical made a "Pigtail" gas tube for shorty 556 barrels. It would loop around the barrel from reciever to gas block. Increase dwell time and solve alot of the negative issues attributed to shorter barrel vs shorter gas systems. Basically turning a +/- 7 inch barrel w/ pistol gas system into a carbine gas system in a nut shell. I never tried it just because I like my 14.5 and 16 barrels. It was just cool that Phase 5 had it to solve issues. Honestly it was wild to see a pic of it. Just my 2 cents
Absolutely! My .350 legend spice weasel rocks and is quite soft shooting!
In .300 blackout. 9mm, .45 are nice. In .223 velocity suffers though
Interestingly, Sig Rattler and CMMG Dissent are being made. I think anything under 10", you have to move the gun to 300 Blackout or 7.62x39.
Even 7.62x39 falls off a lot at less than 15". However, 300Blackout is perfect with shorter tubes. It was really engineered for it with the right powder burn rate and pressure to cycle the BCG just right.
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 this just is not the case, x39 performs wonderfully at smaller barrel lengths, CMMG MK47 Mutant 8'', IWI Galil Ace 8'', CZ Bren 2 - 9 or 11'' , SIG LT spear 11.5'' , all perform great!
@@brighthought11 At 55 years old.
I must officially proclaim PWS long stroke piston uppers (7.5 and 11.5)
in 762x39; the best "all around" short-ish barreled uppers you can buy. I mean, if you make a ton of money, and can afford case after case of 300blk out......maybe.
I have VZ58s and a CZ bren2 as well.
The PWS has the best accuracy and recoil impulse. 1moa is real with Barnual
FMJ, JHP, and SP.
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 not at all, AK's excel in short barrels and have very little drop off in velocity. There are a few people on here that have recorded velocities with a AK from pistol length to rifle lengths.
@almaadams3631 It's pretty much why 300BO is considered the reloader's cartridge, unless you're rich with cash. 7.62x39 is the poor man's alternative. I just wish more companies make AR lowers that use AK mags like PSA's KS-47.
A Sig Rattler or equivalent gun from another manufacturer, that takes AK mags in a 8" barrel package would do wonders.