China - Sandaoling 17a - Extreme Wheelslip (1) - November 2012
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2012
- A JS class 2-8-2 struggles for traction while hauling a loaded spoil train out of the opencast pit. The loco finally fails and the train is reversed back into the pit ready for another attempt later. The train will eventually be hauled out double headed ... see 17c.
For Part 2 see -
• China - Sandaoling 17b...
For Part 3 see -
• China - Sandaoling 17c... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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This driver really knows his stuff - some amazingly fine regulator control before he finally gives in. And I am not being ironic.
Judging by the white smoke, the fuel efficiency on that locomotive is incredible.
That is not smoke, its steam. The cylinders exhaust below the chimney causing a vacuum from the smokebox all the way through the boiler to the firebox thus drawing the fire. Look up "blast pipe"
+g8ymw that's steam then is there a shut off valve for the smoke or is it releasing both at the same time?
+Odney Telusma The exhaust steam draws the smoke but you only get the black smoke when you shovel coal in, when it burns down it goes to almost clear. This is in winter thus making the steam (very much) visible.
It doesn't get much better than this. Working steam in 2012!! It really is working, too.
It's still working in 2017 William - but not for much longer. Check out my playlist - th-cam.com/play/PLNKEdhmODMJxI2j-Vg4jtbeZqw2GfatEM.html
It always fascinates me how good the chinese firemen are at their job. Not a single wisp of smoke, that's all water vapor.
These guys are professionals.
Martin Bormann Chinese are very smart people as i've studied,much more smarter than compared to other races.
I believe it is because of their longer school days, ten hours at anything for 365 days would probably make you efficient at anything.
I know! It’s so cool to see this
actually the steam is covering the coal smoke.
Remember that in China the fireman is on the right side of the locomotive. From my own experience there could be one or more of three factors here:
a) the cars are over-loaded and too heavy;
b) the rails were abnormally slippery due to dew or lubrication drips;
c) an air leak developed due to a worn air hose gasket.
The factor of adhesion for a steam locomotive is very low compared to diesel-electrics. Plus once the steam locomotive speed dropped to a crawl the locomotive has lost the majority of its power, and what you see here is the locomotive ended up "wallowing around on its belly" until it stalled. I could feel what was going on in this video from my own experience, and there was nothing the engineer could do but reduce power in hope that the drive wheels could again bite a hold on the rails, but when the speed got down too much -- to the speed of a baby crawling on the floor -- it was all over. This was a really excellent video.
and there i thought steamers could exert essentially full power at near-zero revs, or at least whatever fraction was allowed by the torque (and thus linear tractive force) they can shove through the pistons, conrods, wheels and ultimately track... the issue isn't so much a lack of power, as an excess of it, and the difficulty of modulating it in any kind of smooth way. At very low speed you might have one power stroke per second, or less; with a low geared diesel, at worst you have ten turns of the crank per second whilst under power, and you can multiply that by half the piston count (or exactly that count if it's a 2-stroke) for the actual number of power strokes, each only contributing 1/10th or likely much less what the steam engine's would. And that's for direct drive diesel engines, which are relatively rare now. Diesel-electric has the even smoother push of electric traction, with essentially no power strokes at all (with properly controlled AC motors, anyway) and extremely fine control of speed and power output being possible during ultra low speed manouevring that even a mechanical diesel can't hope to match.
Thanks everyone for your very kind comments.
Would love to hear (in translation) the conversation between driver and fireman during this incident!
The gradient isn't especially severe but the condition of the track is poor and it's very greasy. Also the locomotives for some reason always go uphill in reverse and I don't believe this makes traction better. Probably the sanding gear doesn't work too. All in all a recipe for slippage!
Hopefully, I'll be visiting the site once more later this year before the steam finishes here for good.
Andy and Dandan Fisher Working in a Coal pit, is a tough job, the Coal dust carries tars, and oils in it, and this settles on the rails, and contributes to loss of tractive effort. However, a bit of additional sand would help this problem, so no idea why they have not adapted their pit loco's to cope. Agree about the reversed Loco too.
It is a tough job for sure, both for locos and for enthusiasts. It's well worthwhile though in this instant. I hope to go back there again this winter with - www.farrail.net/ - fascinating tours around the world !
+Andy and Dandan Fisher (TAGs Modelshop) I think you'll find that running tender-first as opposed to boiler-first makes no difference to traction. The position of the sand pipes allows for either direction. Usually, in mines and steelworks, they never fill the sandboxes anyway.
Andy and Dandan Fisher it has limit of car
The Chinese certainly can make good quality products if they want to (take a look at Bachmann railway models) ..... unfortunately they often don't want to make quality products !!
Certainly was quite a show! Thanks.
Making a guess here, the sand tubes are in front if the wheels, so going backwards the sand is dropped behind the wheel leaving a large gap before the following wheel can make limited use of it. Maybe reversing direction of the engine may be a better option.
Mmmm. I'm not sure it's that simple. There should be sand yubes front and back. I think lack of maintenance (not filling sand boxes) plus ice on the tracks are the culprits here. I think it was about minus 20 centigrade when I filmed this!! Andy
Thanks so much for posting this! Must have looked like this "back in the day" on the Nevada Northern railroad, working the copper mines.
If you get yourself to China pretty quickly, you can still catch a bit of this happening today ....
Andy and Dandan Fisher Where is this?
This is in an opencast coal mine in the far north west of China. The Xinjiang Province is in the part of China which is south of Mongolia and east of Kazakhstan. This action is still just about available to witness in 2014.
Andy and Dandan Fisher thank you for the info. Very cool. I'm guessing they use the coal from the mine directly to power the steam locomotive.
Javier J that is why these few remaining steam locomotives exist. Had our U.S. Congress not passed the law in 1947 forbidding railroad in MOST cases from using steam, steam would have lasted into the 1970s.
Love the way it gives up and goes back down! Poor train..looks so beasty.
Filmed in black and white, so artistic!
Excellent film. Thanks.
Thank you for your very kind comment.
Why didn't he just "double the hill"?
check out the air quality
Don't blame the steam locomotive, its a frikin coal mine. And if YOU had a huge abundance of coal, wouldn't you want to put it to good use?
It’s cool that steam is still being used in outher countries
This operation at Sandaoling is still going (2018/2019) but is now the very last example of steam working really hard in industry anywhere in the world. It's the end of a 200 year history. Andy
It looks to me like the sander was either empty or had failed.
Is the exhaust as clean as it looks? Lots of steam, perhaps they are environmentaly friendly.
Steam engines run cleaner when the firebox is up to full heat. Of course, as soon as you pile on fresh coal, the heat reduces and black smoke comes out of the chimney until heat is built up again. The key is to keep putting small amounts of coal on all the time and maintain working temperature.
Love it .................
I don't know why... But I find wheel slip soothing
wow ..... that;s interesting thanks
Nice to see steam in regular use in the 2000s how old are these locomotives?
These locomotives are (just about) still operating. They were built in the 1980's ....... Andy
@andy and dandan fisher are these locomotives still being used or retired and scrapped ?
They were due to finish operations this month (September 2020) but with current travel restrictions, I've not seen or heard any reports from Sandaoling. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! ....... Andy
Andy and Dandan Fisher - Steam Around the World I’ll miss watchin your videos on them when it’s done. Love you guys !
Amazing shot
@Ska boo yep
and that is the fat controller walking beside it
+terryyouth Um, no. You can't radio control a steam locomotive. Steam locomotives have nothing automated or computerized.
+Jemalacane0 yes but they have an electric generator ran off small amounts of steam that powers the head and cab lights.
Most english and american loco's are outfitted with a form of cb or 2 way wireless ran off the generator
You don't get the joke do you?
Thomas the Tank Engine Reference
Hehe that's s good Joke
Gammareign ever heard of a great western autocarriage, you can control a steam train from the carriage as long as someone is in the locomotive firing the engine, the carriage itself has no engine.
The little engine that couldn't.
Well, this one could .... but only if the sanders were working!! ..... Andy
Sadly I'm not sure the steam will survive much longer either. It'll be replaced by trucks in all probability. They'll need replacing much more frequently than these JSs though, for sure!
Разве нет дежурного толкача?
Удивительно, что они не используют один. В Китае нет недостатка в оборудовании или рабочей силе. It is surprising that they don't use one. In China there is no shortage of equipment or manpower ....... Andy
Thanks for sharing
My pleasure. I'm glad you enjoyed. I have over 1000 videos on here. Take a browse! - Andy
Great clips of those s Chinese steam engines, I guess they are all scrapped now.@@AndyDandanFisherSteam
@@andrewthacker114 I've not been back to Sandaoling since my last visit in 2018 but at that time there were around 200 steam locomotives sitting in storage in the workshop yard. I doubt that they'll all have been cut up yet - Andy
@@AndyDandanFisherSteam thanks for reply. 2018 is relatively recent and good to hear about the steam engines intact.
what locomotive is this? its not the usual sy 2-8-2
This is a JS Class 2-8-2. Slightly larger than a SY. These are still working at this location in 2017 but only for a few more weeks or months.
I didn't know they still used steam trains in China. Didn't they switch almost all freight locomotives to diesel locomotives?
This was filmed 4 years ago, but there is still steam in use in these mines today (2016).
I believe this class of loco was based on the American Mikado class engines?
Mikado is just the Whyte notation for any 2-8-2 locomotive. There have been many different Mikado designs over the years. These Chinese JS class 2-8-2's are based loosely on American design principles which came to China via Russia, who was the original copier of the American designs. There have been many different 2-8-2 designs in China over recent years and, if you search through my videos, you'll see a lot of the classes SY and JS, and a few shots of the earlier JF class ... all based roughly on US originals. Andy
Ohhh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up!
Super klimaty, film zabieram do ula. Pozdrawiam z Polski ;)
Thanks!
Hi Andy, is this JS6209?
+mozebasic Not sure
Guter Dampflok Sound einfach nur schön
Ich stimme zu. Danke für deinen Kommentar.
I agree. Thank you for your comment ...... Andy
It's 2012 and they are still using steam shovels and locomotives?
These wonderful steam locomotives are still in operation today and have just been given approval to continue (only a few of them now) until 2018. Sadly the steam shovels and cranes have now all gone.
Andy and Dandan Fisher 😢😢😢
so at the end it could not climbed in such places an extra toothed leanier track is laid the same way a wheel type gear is attached with main shaft and is engage only in case of emergency i am not engineer any how
To all those people who are bashing these steam engines unnecessarily,My question is : Are you paying tax to keep those locos running?Whats is wrong with using old technology when it is working?You are probably the guys who waste the resources by switching cars,clothes,phones etc frequently just because they become slightly out of fashion.
Don't they have sanders to spread sand on the railhead?
ShaunBro These locomotives are of, course, fitted with sanders but they don't bother filling them! There is only the basic maintenance carried out on these machines. They are still there to be seen but are probably in their last year of service.
звук паровоза завораживает, погружаюсь целиком в это видео
Я согласен насчет звука. Я так рад, что вам нравится мое видео. I agree about the sound. I am so pleased that you enjoy my video ....... Andy
Never knew steam trains still were in operation as late as 2012
They're still operating today (2019) but only in one location. Please take a look at this playlist - th-cam.com/play/PLNKEdhmODMJwMYOtPl5p0NYnhxStAn8jN.html
Andy
Woa this old lady is being worked to death! Still in operation anno 2016?
Steam locomotives were built to last from the start and as long as maintenance and replacement of worn parts continues they will last forever.
The still use steam trains?
Yes. But there are now only 3 places in China still using steam. The one featured here is the main one. But the steam is in its last few months and will not last much longer. It is the last use of steam in industry anywhere in the world.
+Andy and Dandan Fisher (TAGs Modelshop) That's amazing, I thought steam engines were for curiosity or nostalgia only. Thanks for the reply. PS: Hope somebody buys that last engine and puts it in a museum.
+stereopolice also steam a way more week and use to much coal compared to diesel
er er yes it`s a coal mine der.
Matthew Rust Quite right Matthew! Diesels use very little coal.
Seems like if it could maintain traction it would walk right up that hill.....no lack of pulling power there....
oops,,,love it nice video
Thanks !!
Sand Dome doesn't work well in reverse. Great video.
Grade + curve + heavy cars eat away at traction power. Engine and driver gave their best :-). Very well captured!
still using steam well well.
This was filmed 4 years ago but this mine is still using steam in 2016 although it is now expected to be in its last few months of operation here. I shall be revisiting the site in December with Far Rail to get a final glimpse of steam genuinely working for its living!
Steam is awesome ._.
I'll be there again next week. Watch out for new video in a couple of weeks !
Once he lost momentum there was nothing for it but go back down, moving soooooooo slow a standstill was inevitable.
it sounds like person huffing and puffing
How about dropping 3 of those ore / coal /whatever cars off and she can make the grade.
I think I can't, I think I can't.
The Chinese could have used some geared steam locos there, like the Shay, Heisler or Climax.
They'd do the job for sure but these are general work horses built for main line use and passed down as cheap power in the coal mine. Shays (and the like) would be way too expensive an investment for this kind of work. By the way, I'm pleased to report (from a visit in December 2018) that this operation will continue until at least 2020 and maybe 2022. Look out for my latest videos - in editing right now! Andy
@@AndyDandanFisherSteam - Excellent! Happy to hear that Steam is still being used regularly in revenue service. Offers a glimpse into the past.
I shall be anticipating the new videos! :D
Wrong way round for the sanders
Driver is great
He's doing his best in very icy conditions !
No sand & no idea..
Can't imagine a diesel surviving long in these conditions.
Rifleman Moore dont compare cheap trash to masterpieces
Apparently comments are being deleted. Two of mine are no longer posted.
the locomotive sounds like it's trying not to laugh
Lol :-)) ..... Andy
They're working with really poor coal too.
It was close. Looks like a couple of guys pushing would have made a difference.
You could be right there !!!
A billion people and not one fucker can throw some sand on the rails to keep things moving.
there's a whole hill of it just behind the train, too
Here's a thought they should have went with the engine facing forward and not tender first then that wouldn't have happened!!!!
I don't think it would have made any difference. The down force is the same either way round. I think the real problem was the early hour in the day on a very frosty morning in November ---- icy rails !! Andy
Didn’t know China still used steam trains
This was filmed in 2012 but this coal mine at Sandaoling is now the last stronghold of steam in industrial use in the world. There are about six locos still operating. I have just visited the site (December 2018) and am currently editing my video. Look out for a new playlist, "China - Industrial Steam into 2019" Andy
Many years ago I watched the western movie with the smartest hijack of the train with gold. Tracks were greased with lard where sloped. There was the forest around tracks, and one hijacker was sitting on the tree, and kept the closed nest with hornets inside. When the train achieved (going upside) sloped and greased tracks, loco's wheels started spinning, and train practically stopped. In that moment, hijacker sitting on the tree let the nest down by the hole in the roof of carriage with gold and soldiers inside. Soldiers tried to shoot against hornets, but finally escaped. Other hijacker smoked hornets out, another one treated tracks with sand in order to regain proper traction by loco. Finally, lucky hijackers ran away with the train and gold inside. My question is: who remembers the title of described western movie?
Well I've certainly no idea !!
+Gumgib John Wayne, "Rio Lobo" - about as famous as westerns get!
+Roy J Thanks a lot. At least, after 30 years, I know the title.
+Roy J Sweet, I'm not the only guy that's seen it! Can't find too many fans these days.
Rio Lobo was the name of the movie staring John Wayne
This is saddening, look at the air. You're lucky if you can see 100ft in front of you. And this trains spitting out tonnes of pollution, pretty much none-stop and this is the same for the whole of China. I'm not exactly a tree hugger but this is quite alarming.
I agree with you in principal. However, this is a tiny piece of disappearing history. And it is NOT the same for the whole of China. There are now (2016) only 3 locations still using steam and these 3 are likely to finish steam in the next 12 months. The diesels that will replace them are only marginally better in terms of pollution. They look better but the gases they produce are just as damaging. These last few locations in China are the world's very last examples of genuine commercial industrial steam power. A sad passing!
Andy and Dandan Fisher I am well aware, and by "its the same everywhere in China", I meant the insane disregard for pollution. Steam trains are fascinating and some should be preserved but no fossil fuel-burning trains should be used at all.
+applefanXXX I am not a train expert, but I know that this train is spitting out steam for the most part. How is this classed as pollution?
Rc With Foxy Because of all the coal that is burned, that smoke and soot has to go somewhere... Obviously into the air with the steam
I see :)
Coal powered steam locomotives? What is this, 1890?
Not sure how long your own memory goes back, but even the USA was dependent on coal fired steam locos up to 50 years ago and most of the western world closer to 40 years ago. There are still a small number of countries using them today. Today, this location in China is almost completely rid of its steam ... sadly!
xygomorphic44 those engines are probably much efficient than your brain.
they should use EMD locomotive
I'm sure a modern diesel would cope with the wheel slip better but the capital investment in acquiring diesel (even used ones) is huge. Plus there's an unlimited supply of free fuel coming out of the ground for the steam locos. It's a sensible commercial decision to keep the steam locos working as long as possible. Incidentally, you should bear in mind that these shots were filmed at between 10 and 20 degrees below freezing. The rails were very icy. Even a diesel would be struggling!
China must be very behind in technology if they're still using steam power trains.
They are no longer using steam locos (sadly). This video was made in 2012. There remain two locomotives which carry out a short distance shuttle movement in the far north west of China but I think these are kept on as a bit of a novelty! Rail transport throughout the country has leapt forward over the past 20 years and it is now possible to travel from any city to any other city by high speed rail - Andy
Its runs in the reverse as the tender is heavier or else running the normal way will tend to lift the leading wheels ...on extra torque application..I am sure she must have caused a dip or two on the tracks..I wished they had boosters on the rear wheels...
steam engines in 2012 ?! dafuq!
Some of them are quite young-production of the JS class ended in 1988. The SY class were still being manufactured in the 1990's.
Many developing nations used steam engines that late/still use them because modern technology was so late in getting there.
+Julian Spieker fueling by coal at coal mine - I mean, it`s economically
train has a qwick pee at 2:11
Funny !! That's has to be done regularly here because of the mineral content of the water. They're clearing out pipework.
thanks hahah
Drive that off a cliff and put a diesel in there Jesus. Get with the times!
A diesel would pollute just as badly as the steam .... and there's free fuel for life coming straight out of the ground for these steam locos. It's a solid commercial decision to keep them working.
Andy and Dandan Fisher it’s not about pollution it’s about ability to move the load.
This is a country where commercial decisions are not always made along sensible grounds. However, diesels also suffer from wheelslip (I've seen it many times) but it's not as obvious! This was recorded at about minus 20 degrees (c) and the rails were very icy.
meat axe Why not do the same with you?Are you giving tax to run those steam locos?
They need to sell a few more Samsung cell phones and buy them a real train !!!
Those are your jobs your watching Trump-meriKa
Even people in China have to work and feed their families, you know !!
The little engine that couldn't.
These JS class locos are very powerful machines. It was about minus 25 degrees on this morning and the rails were very icy. I've just returned from another visit to Sandaoling - look out for the videos of them working in slightly less icy conditions.