Hi Igor, Everson here :) Nice video! To me, the takeaway here is: PETG is a more predictable material and the Layer Adhesion is REALLY a win for parts that will be under stress, and instead of "exploding", it deforms and you can see it, giving time to replace before something terrible happens. PLA is super strong, but it simply explodes like glass without warning.
I agree, but usually PETG has weaker layer adhesion (it can be better with less cooling and bigger temperatures of course), but using recommended settings, in most cases PLA has better layer adhesion. It is good to see that it may be different too.
@@MyTechFun I don't think we should compare layer adhesion from PLA and PETG with both printed at the same temperature - the ideal temperature for each material is different. Anyways, I need to print more with PETG to have a better understanding of it.
Another reason for PETG is bed adhesion; some shapes are very difficult to get to stick to some beds with PLA without a brim (often large and tall objects). PETG tends to run the opposite direction, and often sticks too well, so it's good for these cases too.
I use PETG in water/wet environment, because in long term condition, PLA is easier to break when it is wet/moist. I already test with my project and i test with both material for a few months. the results is after about 3-4 week in wet condition when PLA gets more water pressure, it breaks easily than PETG. With PETG my project still intact even after a year or more in wet condition.
I love PETG, it's pretty much all I print. I've never bothered with drying it even though some of my rolls have been open for several years. But I've also never done any structural testing before to determine the impact of moisture. I mostly use Polymaker these days, but I still have about 6 rolls of Amazon Basics PETG which is now branded Overture.
I use PLA for anything art releated and PETG and ASA for anything mechanically related but if stiffness is a trait that is required I then use PLA+ although I have also used CF-Nylon.
Big kingroon fan here. I have 4 of their printers, 2 done waay up, one being converted to 2 color mixing and another being built for asa. Kp3s printing well @ 200mm/s 4kmms/s acceleration. They do EASY 110mm bridges too!
Interesting tests! I recently tried "lazy annealing" of PLA, by leaving the print on the printer bed, turning the bed temperature up to 110C and let it anneal, covered with an oven dish, for 45 minutes. I didn't do any rigorous tests, but I printed two identical samples during the same test print, and I found that it took about 4-5 times more time for the annealed sample to deform and become pliable, when exposed 100C hot air from a hot air gun. So this quick and simple way of annealing might provide enough temperature stability for many applications. Maybe an avenue for more inquiry?
Dr. Gaspar. Thank you for your work and making it public. I have one request, which just came to me now... PLEASE ASK FILAMENT MANUFACTURERS TO PRINT THE SPOOL WEIGHT ON THE SPOOL
Petg needs 250-260 nozzle temp and only 20% fan bed 80.use a pva wash on the bed. This is wht i use .only use pla for the kids toys. I like to think of petg as an engineering plastic
@@tonyhill8300 in the general definition, engineering plastics are not the likes of PETG, PLA or ABS but rather nylon, polycarbonate, polypropylene, PEEK and others.
I'm trying PETG Tough from QIDI Tech, a difficult material to print and remove supports but after find the right parameters on the slicer I've very strong pieces for example flow and speed have dependency with this material because it's too sticky also into the throat and prints better with PTFE liner than bi-metal. Perfect for functional parts.
1. PETG has much better layer adhesion and therefore is more uniformly load bearing in Z as well. 2. PETG temp, performance is better 3. PETG is less brittle, you can design snap fittings and similar stuff where flexibility is important, which it is for most end user applications. 4. Price to performance is good, it cost basically the same as PLA. Generally speaking PLA is not an engineering material at all while PETG is.
I think short term test is only half the story as to why one chooses PETG over PLA. I have had very strong PLA prints straight off the bed, but 2-3 years later all the loaded parts broke, they became crazed and brittle. There's something about PLA at least the one that i use that caused it to degrade with time somewhat fierce, while PETG parts are exactly as strong as the day i printed them, even 7 year old parts. I can tighten the screws right up on a PETG part and don't have to worry about it at all, it won't stress craze or split. I suspect its mild hygroscopy is a positive quality for endurance of the prints, i suspect the incorporated water actually strengthens and protects it under the usual range of conditions, just as long as it was printed dry initially. I have also not had much luck with ABS, it has experienced already a good bit of degradation during printing and it gets worse after a while in use and storage. I have older ABS prints which were cohesive at first but now break. I can notice ABS degradation in that for example the melt that spent a while in the nozzle while the printer was heating up comes out more yellowish and more brittle than the rest. Not to speak of how difficult it is to achieve a good open-air print with ABS. I am printing HIPS these days quite a bit. It doesn't have the die swell of ABS, it doesn't degrade during printing unlike ABS, it smells an order of magnitude or several less than ABS, it warps much less than ABS, and i anticipate it to remain stable medium to long term, i am only using it for a year but so far it feels pretty solid. The interesting part is how dissimilar these nominally styrene based plastics are. ABS is a graft copolymer based on butadiene flake, onto which styrene gas and acrylonitrile gas get polymerised; as such i'm lead to believe that when the butadiene starts to unfurl when it's being heated up, it also causes the rest of the polymer to move; and butadiene is also the less chemically stable part and more prone to degradation, effectively ruining the bulk polymer when it does break. Additionally butadiene acts as a styrene polymerisation inhibitor, guaranteeing that there is smelly and toxic styrene monomer embedded in the plastic. HIPS on the other hand is a blend of two unconnected polymers, polystyrene and polybutadiene which were polymerised separately, so butadiene is more protected, causes less movement, and does not cause bulk polymer breakage. I don't know if much of this is true but this is what i've been able to gather from variously dubious sources. If someone has corrections or authoritative confirmation, it would be quite welcome. All in all i think HIPS is a cheap and very underrated printing material. It is fairly easy and very attractive looking with silky surface. However PETG is tougher and super dependable, and has insanely low shrinkage for dimensionally accurate results. The one difficulty with HIPS is bed adhesion. I use a PVP stick (Deli 7091) or my own PVP polymer mixture coating for adhesion. However i don't have buildtak or PEI or any kind of special print surface, i print on a glass mirror that i cut down, i suppose those other surfaces may work better. ABS Slurry might work as well. You cannot dissolve HIPS in acetone to prepare HIPS slurry, there is penetration but solvent action is too weak to create a liquid, but limonene should work.
Dear Igor, I was wondering if you would be interested in testing the new filaments from Overture, especially the "Air PLA", "PC Professional", and "Super PLA Pro" filaments. As a dedicated viewer of your channel, "Mytechfun," I am sure that your audience and I would be very interested in hearing about your experiences with these filaments. Thank you for all the hard work and testing you have done so far. Best regards!
I always like to test new filaments, but my problem with Overture, that they are not available in EU. For my pig PLA brand comparison test I ordered some, but the shipping was more expensive than the filament itself. The Overtuer company didn't reply, if they want to send some..
Igor, great video.! I wanted to ask you if the silica gel packs are included in the set. I looked at your link and it did not mention the drying packs. Please let me. Thank you again
I don't use PLA out of principle because its temperature tolerance is abysmal and doesn't even survive every day use. Obviously that simplification doesn't even come close to your scientific comparison. So thanks for the video!
PETG is very brittle, which makes it unusable for many applications. With PLA you can choose PLA+ or PRO formulas which makes the impact resistance much better than PETG.
I bought some very similar bags from Ali for food too, they look very similar, only with 1 sealing line. So, probably yes, only just in case I wash them before first use.
Very interesting. I wonder why manufacturers develop so many products based on PLA and not so many on PETG. like pro, silk, glitter, coextruded etc... Is it because PLA has more compatibility with additives and stuff like that? or the market asks more for PLA than PETG. I think PETG is a better option in most cases, also because the raw material is cheaper, If it had more demand, similar to PLA, I think a spool could be a couple of dollars cheaper than a PLA spool
It´s cheaper. and easy to print. People buy PLA for whichever reason so they produce it. PLA is not even considered engineering grade material. Generally speaking there is no reason to use PLA but one and only one ....it´s more green, that´s basically it.
yeah, PETG is cheaper, but they usually sell it at the same price as PLA. That's why I think it is due to economy of scale. If there were more PETG sales, I think it could achieven better prices. PETG isn't engineering grade either, if they could compound it with things like they do with PLAs, It would become a very viable option to make mechanical parts. Especially if they improve the impact and crack growth resistance.
Hey a qustion to everyone My new bought roll of pla is stringing at 205°C and anything under its is building something like a horizontal bridge i have already changen retraction setting and played around with the temperatur any other tips?
I bought those vacuum bags, although I think under a different brand. Some leaked first use. Some worked a first, but developed leaks later. Don't recommend.
Btw, I would love for you to do a showdown on annealing PLA and PETG, with varying annealing types(shorter, hotter - longer, cooler and inbetween etc). Annealing is under reported/there isn't that much information especially in regards to testing like this. Would really appreciate it!
@@MyTechFun This should be an interesting test. One thing that I have read is that *slow cooling* is crucial to the annealing process as this allows more of the PLA to form crystalline structures rather than amorphous. As always, I look forward to seeing your results.
Hi Igor, Everson here :) Nice video! To me, the takeaway here is: PETG is a more predictable material and the Layer Adhesion is REALLY a win for parts that will be under stress, and instead of "exploding", it deforms and you can see it, giving time to replace before something terrible happens. PLA is super strong, but it simply explodes like glass without warning.
I agree, but usually PETG has weaker layer adhesion (it can be better with less cooling and bigger temperatures of course), but using recommended settings, in most cases PLA has better layer adhesion. It is good to see that it may be different too.
@@MyTechFun I don't think we should compare layer adhesion from PLA and PETG with both printed at the same temperature - the ideal temperature for each material is different. Anyways, I need to print more with PETG to have a better understanding of it.
You are a gem on TH-cam!
Thank you for your effort!
That little vaccuum pump is awesome bro! Another great video. I think my girlfriend thinks im crazy how much I watch your videos hahaha
Another great scientific test of our materials, I have some vacuum bags but the pump is a manual one, oh well it adds to my fitness LOL.
I could use some fitness equipment :-)
I've found that the manual pump is faster.
Another reason for PETG is bed adhesion; some shapes are very difficult to get to stick to some beds with PLA without a brim (often large and tall objects). PETG tends to run the opposite direction, and often sticks too well, so it's good for these cases too.
Thanks for reviewing Kingroon's vacuum pump. I bought one after watching this video and it works well. Also very cheap with some extra bags.
I use PETG in water/wet environment, because in long term condition, PLA is easier to break when it is wet/moist. I already test with my project and i test with both material for a few months. the results is after about 3-4 week in wet condition when PLA gets more water pressure, it breaks easily than PETG. With PETG my project still intact even after a year or more in wet condition.
Hi Sandy! I am doing a few prints for swimming pools - can you tell us more about your project?
Nice setup for a scientific approach to compare the two types of filament. Nice job👍
Another great test
And PetG is more UV tolerate
Thanks for sharing your expirence with all of us 👍 😀
I love PETG, it's pretty much all I print. I've never bothered with drying it even though some of my rolls have been open for several years. But I've also never done any structural testing before to determine the impact of moisture. I mostly use Polymaker these days, but I still have about 6 rolls of Amazon Basics PETG which is now branded Overture.
I use PLA for anything art releated and PETG and ASA for anything mechanically related but if stiffness is a trait that is required I then use PLA+ although I have also used CF-Nylon.
What brand for CF nylon?
@@MyTechFun Matterhackers Nylon X, I chose this as it has the CF strands and not the powder.
Perfect timing, i just ordered the same vacuum seal bag, and i was wondering how good are they.
Big kingroon fan here. I have 4 of their printers, 2 done waay up, one being converted to 2 color mixing and another being built for asa. Kp3s printing well @ 200mm/s 4kmms/s acceleration. They do EASY 110mm bridges too!
Interesting tests! I recently tried "lazy annealing" of PLA, by leaving the print on the printer bed, turning the bed temperature up to 110C and let it anneal, covered with an oven dish, for 45 minutes. I didn't do any rigorous tests, but I printed two identical samples during the same test print, and I found that it took about 4-5 times more time for the annealed sample to deform and become pliable, when exposed 100C hot air from a hot air gun. So this quick and simple way of annealing might provide enough temperature stability for many applications. Maybe an avenue for more inquiry?
Oh, great idea for the testing. Lazy annealing, perfect for me if it works :-)
Dr. Gaspar. Thank you for your work and making it public. I have one request, which just came to me now...
PLEASE ASK FILAMENT MANUFACTURERS TO PRINT THE SPOOL WEIGHT ON THE SPOOL
I am doing all time th-cam.com/video/WHRvQy_Zbls/w-d-xo.html
Interesting to see that PETG had better layer adhesion, because in my experience it has been the opposite.
In my experience too. This is one of the most important specs in my eye.
Was thinking about it too. I think it's coz PETG temperature was higher. But maybe that brand PETG just has better layer adhesion
Petg needs 250-260 nozzle temp and only 20% fan bed 80.use a pva wash on the bed. This is wht i use .only use pla for the kids toys. I like to think of petg as an engineering plastic
@@tonyhill8300 in the general definition, engineering plastics are not the likes of PETG, PLA or ABS but rather nylon, polycarbonate, polypropylene, PEEK and others.
I'm trying PETG Tough from QIDI Tech, a difficult material to print and remove supports but after find the right parameters on the slicer I've very strong pieces for example flow and speed have dependency with this material because it's too sticky also into the throat and prints better with PTFE liner than bi-metal.
Perfect for functional parts.
1. PETG has much better layer adhesion and therefore is more uniformly load bearing in Z as well.
2. PETG temp, performance is better
3. PETG is less brittle, you can design snap fittings and similar stuff where flexibility is important, which it is for most end user applications.
4. Price to performance is good, it cost basically the same as PLA. Generally speaking PLA is not an engineering material at all while PETG is.
a lot of the results showed PLA being either very close in quality to PETG, or sometimes better....
@@iabaca 1. What do you even mean by "Quality" ? Material properties are not quality.
2. Which results exactly in what ?
I think short term test is only half the story as to why one chooses PETG over PLA. I have had very strong PLA prints straight off the bed, but 2-3 years later all the loaded parts broke, they became crazed and brittle. There's something about PLA at least the one that i use that caused it to degrade with time somewhat fierce, while PETG parts are exactly as strong as the day i printed them, even 7 year old parts. I can tighten the screws right up on a PETG part and don't have to worry about it at all, it won't stress craze or split. I suspect its mild hygroscopy is a positive quality for endurance of the prints, i suspect the incorporated water actually strengthens and protects it under the usual range of conditions, just as long as it was printed dry initially.
I have also not had much luck with ABS, it has experienced already a good bit of degradation during printing and it gets worse after a while in use and storage. I have older ABS prints which were cohesive at first but now break. I can notice ABS degradation in that for example the melt that spent a while in the nozzle while the printer was heating up comes out more yellowish and more brittle than the rest. Not to speak of how difficult it is to achieve a good open-air print with ABS.
I am printing HIPS these days quite a bit. It doesn't have the die swell of ABS, it doesn't degrade during printing unlike ABS, it smells an order of magnitude or several less than ABS, it warps much less than ABS, and i anticipate it to remain stable medium to long term, i am only using it for a year but so far it feels pretty solid. The interesting part is how dissimilar these nominally styrene based plastics are. ABS is a graft copolymer based on butadiene flake, onto which styrene gas and acrylonitrile gas get polymerised; as such i'm lead to believe that when the butadiene starts to unfurl when it's being heated up, it also causes the rest of the polymer to move; and butadiene is also the less chemically stable part and more prone to degradation, effectively ruining the bulk polymer when it does break. Additionally butadiene acts as a styrene polymerisation inhibitor, guaranteeing that there is smelly and toxic styrene monomer embedded in the plastic. HIPS on the other hand is a blend of two unconnected polymers, polystyrene and polybutadiene which were polymerised separately, so butadiene is more protected, causes less movement, and does not cause bulk polymer breakage. I don't know if much of this is true but this is what i've been able to gather from variously dubious sources. If someone has corrections or authoritative confirmation, it would be quite welcome.
All in all i think HIPS is a cheap and very underrated printing material. It is fairly easy and very attractive looking with silky surface. However PETG is tougher and super dependable, and has insanely low shrinkage for dimensionally accurate results.
The one difficulty with HIPS is bed adhesion. I use a PVP stick (Deli 7091) or my own PVP polymer mixture coating for adhesion. However i don't have buildtak or PEI or any kind of special print surface, i print on a glass mirror that i cut down, i suppose those other surfaces may work better. ABS Slurry might work as well. You cannot dissolve HIPS in acetone to prepare HIPS slurry, there is penetration but solvent action is too weak to create a liquid, but limonene should work.
Dear Igor,
I was wondering if you would be interested in testing the new filaments from Overture, especially the "Air PLA", "PC Professional", and "Super PLA Pro" filaments. As a dedicated viewer of your channel, "Mytechfun," I am sure that your audience and I would be very interested in hearing about your experiences with these filaments.
Thank you for all the hard work and testing you have done so far.
Best regards!
I always like to test new filaments, but my problem with Overture, that they are not available in EU. For my pig PLA brand comparison test I ordered some, but the shipping was more expensive than the filament itself. The Overtuer company didn't reply, if they want to send some..
Igor, great video.! I wanted to ask you if the silica gel packs are included in the set. I looked at your link and it did not mention the drying packs. Please let me. Thank you again
In my case yes, as it can be seen from 11:20 th-cam.com/video/ggMkfHMlzsE/w-d-xo.html
@@MyTechFun ill order and see what i get. thanks Igor
I don't use PLA out of principle because its temperature tolerance is abysmal and doesn't even survive every day use.
Obviously that simplification doesn't even come close to your scientific comparison. So thanks for the video!
PETG is very brittle, which makes it unusable for many applications. With PLA you can choose PLA+ or PRO formulas which makes the impact resistance much better than PETG.
Hello Igor, congrats from Portugal. Can you tell if we can use that vacuom bags for food?
I bought some very similar bags from Ali for food too, they look very similar, only with 1 sealing line. So, probably yes, only just in case I wash them before first use.
Thank you very much Igor for your work.
Very interesting. I wonder why manufacturers develop so many products based on PLA and not so many on PETG. like pro, silk, glitter, coextruded etc... Is it because PLA has more compatibility with additives and stuff like that? or the market asks more for PLA than PETG. I think PETG is a better option in most cases, also because the raw material is cheaper, If it had more demand, similar to PLA, I think a spool could be a couple of dollars cheaper than a PLA spool
It´s cheaper. and easy to print. People buy PLA for whichever reason so they produce it. PLA is not even considered engineering grade material. Generally speaking there is no reason to use PLA but one and only one ....it´s more green, that´s basically it.
yeah, PETG is cheaper, but they usually sell it at the same price as PLA. That's why I think it is due to economy of scale. If there were more PETG sales, I think it could achieven better prices.
PETG isn't engineering grade either, if they could compound it with things like they do with PLAs, It would become a very viable option to make mechanical parts. Especially if they improve the impact and crack growth resistance.
Hey a qustion to everyone
My new bought roll of pla is stringing at 205°C and anything under its is building something like a horizontal bridge i have already changen retraction setting and played around with the temperatur any other tips?
Too wet. Need to dry
I bought those vacuum bags, although I think under a different brand. Some leaked first use. Some worked a first, but developed leaks later. Don't recommend.
Same with 2 sealing lines? Usually these have only 1 line with other brands in my experience.
As far as I know, PETG will resist much more the environment outdoors.
Correct, and according to others, better for "wet" applications. I will test this soon.
Btw, I would love for you to do a showdown on annealing PLA and PETG, with varying annealing types(shorter, hotter - longer, cooler and inbetween etc). Annealing is under reported/there isn't that much information especially in regards to testing like this. Would really appreciate it!
Somebody already suggested, I will try the "lazy annealing", leaving PLA on the bed, heat up to 100C and put some dish on the top for 45-60 minutes.
@@MyTechFun This should be an interesting test. One thing that I have read is that *slow cooling* is crucial to the annealing process as this allows more of the PLA to form crystalline structures rather than amorphous.
As always, I look forward to seeing your results.