@@WilliamAkins-rw2hv No sweetheart, that's the case even when we have 'representatives' in our government. It's also especially the case when our so-called representatives no longer represent our best interests but instead show themselves to represent only themselves and their own self interests.
The point is, we should be able to spend our money the way we want. If we want to be in the cop club, the fire club and ambulance club, we'll pay for that by our own volition. Govt. is slavery and violence because it steals it's funds from the people and gives us no choice of how to spend our private property. Charlie is wrong here.
He's in his 20's so not really unusual or privileged for most Americans. I'm in my 50s and have never gone to the ER and my only interaction with cops have been with them taking a report at a car accident scene for my insurance company. I'm middle class now, but lived in some sketchy areas in my 20s.
@pauljansen6650 there was no bigger picture, an individual was asked about whether or not he ever needed those services. I don't think it's that odd that a 20 yr old said no. What are you missing?
@@dtm1351because people will work in their individual best interests. That’s not a good thing when we collectively have to drive on freeways, fight wars, build bridges & buildings, provide clean water, run a court system etc
@@helloitsmehb Correct, and I said that if all of these things that you mentioned are not in their best self-interests, then why should they be forced on them?
A libertarian generally believes in MINIMAL government and minimal taxation to fund it. That was the belief of our founders and is what is written as our primary law. Socialists want a considerably larger government with more powers...and naturally, a higher degree of taxation. An ever-increasing degree of taxation, it seems. Here's a thought: What if we hold our federal government strictly to its limited powers and duties, and have state/local government supply social services as they see fit and can afford to, while still respecting the fundamental rights of the people? It is virtually impossible for local government to spend their citizens into a state of debt slavery as the federal government can...and has. I'm not sure how that would end, but it really can't be any worse than what we are doing. The current approach is going to end us.
Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
As a libertarian I fully endorse this explanation. I hate government intervention in my life and taxes, but am willing to accept a certain amount of both in order to maintain an orderly polite protected society within an independent nation. I wholly reject the concept of a world government or an appointed governing body like the EU or UN
The only way to limit them to only the power granted to the fed is the 2nd amendment. People being scared to exercise it is exactly how we got into this mess.
How it would end. I may have an answer. Kingdom of France, 1789. After 2 years of awful harvest, wheat went in shortage, so went bread and other primary food. The French subjectd thought the King wouls find a solution. The kingdom had a have debt and à large part of it was to pay for wars and to pay interests on debt. There were 3 orders in France back then : the aristocracy (the nobles), the Clergy and the 3rd state (95% of population). The king decided to gather all the orders and their representatives in order to decide about his solution : more taxes. Aristocrats and Clergy didn't pay any taxes. The 3rd State's represtatives didn't agree. Despite the fact they were way more numéros than the 2 other orders, their voiries would count for only 1. The aristocrate and Clergy's representatives would agree with the King and would be 2 orders vs 1. Then the 3rd state's representatives were locked up and got forbidden to access the Assembly. They gathered and took an oath : the one to give the People a Constitution and to end priviledges. The king, the aristocrats and the Clergy didn't agree... the French Revolution began.
Roads are paid via socialist programs. They are technically part of socialism Also hospitals aren't government funded they are mostly privately owned and paid via insurance companies
@@Political_Brainrot_Auditor Insults are not a substitute for expressing a cohesive thought. And insulting each other is simply getting us nowhere. I was asking a real question, which person did Madcatz mean?
Asking younger people that question using the wrong examples. How about ever been to a public school, park, airport, professional sports stadium? Ever use a public road, sidewalk or bike path? It takes money, as in taxes to provide for the public, not just services but places as well.
My public school was filled with legitimately insane teachers power tripping and indoctrinating people. I couldn't even do extra-curriculars because they went on strike every other year. All the parks around me are now homeless encampments. The airport near me is a heavily subsidized private enterprise where it takes 2 hours to get your bags at the claim. I don't watch sports. Every road or bike path is now costing more than 1 million dollars per mile and takes 5 years+ to build. WOW! What a great return on investment my taxes get.
@@goldengryphonWow! I never thought of that, killer response dude! Truly, just a little bit of elbow grease is all that's required to reverse the consequences of the largest, most corrupt, most incompetent, most inefficient organization in the western world. Did you go to Harvard?
The social contract is not a valid contract. You can't practically NOT sign it. You can not read all the terms. You can't show me my signature on the contract. We are forced to sign it. Socialism is evil, and the myth of the social contract is used to sell socialism.
@@connannbarbarin3033 If you want to live in a society, why don't you live in communism? These things are not equivalencies. Socialism isn't government; Communism isn't society. There are things that aren't absolutes. You can season a dish with just a little salt where using All The Salt would be overkill.
@@goldengryphon I personally want an feudalistic absolute monarchy with me as the monarch, but original argument still stands. By which principle 10% for army is ok, but 90% for everything* is bad? None. Just personal preference.
@@connannbarbarin3033 I'm a Constitutional Libertarian (not one of the crazies), so I see where you're going. I don't want to go there, but you're perfectly free to *want* whatever you can talk people into.
His point is any '%' of taxation is ultimately a form of socialism. What's the difference between a society that has a 10% flat tax compared to a 20% tax? They're both forms of socialism, just to a different degree. China also has things like police, healthcare, publicly funded roads. Why is their form of 'socialism' inherently different?
@@AlexA-cn5ipbuddy canadas tax rate is fucking demented because we have healthcare, plus half the time you don’t get properly diagnosed. Speaking from experience. I’d be pumped if my job was accountable for my healthcare but I still paid some taxes for like an MRI machine or some shit. Typical socialist lovers literally don’t have the brain power to notice other things right in front of them. YOU DIDNT SEE THE GORILLA
The reason for that is so government can get people a social security number...if your not giving the hospital your social security number they will try to take your kids from you
Where specifically would that 5% go? How does that get distributed? Let's say a in a city of 1,000 households, $100 is able to buy groceries for a week per household. 5% sales tax means $5/purchase totaling ~$5,000/week and possibly ~$20,000/month. Now if you are correct and a balanced and budgeted government can run on that, how would you distribute that $20,000/month between city, county, state and federal for tax fundings? Yes obviously there are more purchases beyond groceries and $100 is a variable amount that could be higher or lower, but in your system, I can't imagine more than $70,000/month comes from sales tax. Does that sound like enough to fund a proper government at city, county, state and federal levels?
@@SSPerfectChaosRCTSales tax is better than income tax. With sales tax everyone pays according to how much they spend. With income tax, corporations get benefits and rich people are able to avoid taxes while living in luxury.
@SSPerfectChaosRCT Yes, it does sound like an appropriate amount to fund a PROPER government, because the government has an inherent monopoly on the use of force, it is exceedingly important to limit its capacity to abuse that monopoly. Simply because I don't want a government solution to a problem does not mean that I don't want any solution at all, I'm quite willing to consider private sector alternatives any time it is even as good as a government alternative, even though in virtually every instance I have seen it is vastly superior
@johnhildenbrand2642 yea, try to set that up, see how that works. I'm not for big government either, but at the levels you're talking about, you may as well just have no government, forego the sales tax entirely and let the mob, as in a people's mob, control it all.
They know the difference. They have been trained from the same playbook!! Play dumb! They are disingenuous and totally lacking in basic honesty. They are the toxic waste of all humanity.
uhh....doesn't that go the other direction also? more "social programs" doesn't equal socialism should be told to the people on the right? ACA was called socialism before it was enacted but now many see it as a social program.
Ya you shouldn't keep getting taxed after you get taxed on your paycheck, but the why is it more reasonable? If you make $60K a year 20% is $12K, 10% is $6K, that's a big difference to me
You aren't a grown up until you need cops? It is nice to see you all admitting that hospitals are socialism though, needing public or social funds to manage. Public water like flint? Interesting
Just because you have never called the cops doesn't mean you have not relied on them every single day of your life. Basically, capitalism requires the government to enforce property laws, and that requires a police force of some description. They have to be paid for, so you need some level of taxes.
@@shadowbanned5164 you are thinking this kid is arguing for anarchism. He's not. What he is clearly trying to do is give Charlie a gotchya, and will be contrarian whenever possible... this is unfortunately what it is like to discuss most things with most leftists. They will strawman, attack your character, play dumb, purposefully misinterpret to feign offense, mock, smugly giggle, and do anything to feel like they got you. They aren't concerned about sincerely understanding the sincere meaning behind what anyone is saying unless it is something they can use to gain favor and flatter themselves.
Would you lend someone a dollar? So you'd give up all your money? Well, that's quite a stretch. However, him saying that the cops don't like him makes perfect sense.
@@timezup16 The graduated income tax is socialism which leads to communism. 10 planks of Communism Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose. A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax. Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance. Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels. Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly. Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State. Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan. Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture. Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country. Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production..
@@AverageJoe-12national socialism works just fine. The issue is when you extend benefits to people who don't pay in, and an onerous regulatory behemoth, high taxes, and a staff of parasitic bureaucrats. Big government attracts leftists like flies, so it's best to keep the state modest in scope.
@@TheHigherVoltage well tax only accounts for about 30% of our GDP, which could easily be eliminated from the budget if the government stopped wasting money on needless things, but the way the government works is to constantly increase spending even when they decrease spending
The problem is that anything that is provided by the government becomes an entitlement, and that's how people act; entitled. What we should have is networked charitable services. So that people in need can be placed in contact with people willing to help out. The government could liaise with philanthropists and institutions to help identify what services are needed so that those with the money know how to best apply it, but that's about as far as it should go.
Interesting. He proved that Charlie doesn't believe that "taxation is thief", but that it can be thief under certain circumstances. But that's not s disputed cliam at all, everyone agrees on that.
Taxation is theft, pure and simple since noone can say : "No thanks." and can refuse to pay taxes. The thing is what justifies the taxation. Mostly, it is to pay people who want to protect others, their Rights, their lands/areas. The government is the People's entity created by the People, for the People which goal is to pay these guardians with the People's money and to remind them who they work for. Mainly cops, firefighters, standing soldiers (I know it wasn't the case in the creation of the U.S.A) are these guardians. Governments have become those they work for, and governments always ask more and more money for other tasks (socialist stuff such as transport, health, school, road, electricity, water, food, industry/production,...) neglecting their only mission : protect the People's Rights.
I’d never been to a hospital until I was 38 years old, so I believe him 100%. Plus, a hospital has nothing to do with social services because it wasn’t free or subsidized!
The kid is factually correct. Taxes are the forceful confiscation of private property at gunpoint. Providing "services" to victims does not make theft consensual.
Taxes have been around since the beginning of human civilization. If you use a resource but do not contribute that is also a form of confiscation so society taxes its citizens. I agree that gov't go overboard and some taxes are unjust but if you think you can have any civilization without taxes you are dreaming.
@@mikesedam616 Hi Mike, many thanks for weighing in on my comment. I aim to be fully respectful to you in my reply. There is a lot one can say about your comments, and you make a lot of good points. However, the most crucial one on which I will focus is one which I think you will agree is a fallacy, or an error in your reasoning: You are confusing historical precedent with consent. Let's define terms. Consent means you agree to something. It can be explicit or implicit. If I agreed to pay for something I use but then refuse to pay, I'm doing wrong by violating my contract. If someone promises to protect me and my property against theft by robbers, but then takes my money at gunpoint, they are doing wrong by violating their contract. This is the point. 1. I never explicitly agreed to pay for the things for which my money is forcefully taken under threat. 2. Even of you claim I implicitly agreed to these terms, there is still an obvious contract violation in that one of the most crucial services claiming to be provided ('protection") is broken when the ones allegedly providing the "service" hold people in cages for nonpayment. In any other case, it is simply enough to kick out a person who does not pay, say from a restaurant. It is entirely unique among government "services" that nonpayment (even by those who *explicitly* consent, setting aside for a moment those who do not) results in physical incarceration and a loss of all freedom as a penalty. At best, this is a barbaric and ancient relic of prehistoric justice that has no place in modern society. At worst, it is the rebranding of a mafia protection racket with the regalia of legitimacy. Wishing you all the best and happiness in your day today, and thanks in advance for considering my comments.
Then leave the country. "Love it or leave it" as these people like to say. We live in a civilized society and all under agreement. There are anarchist areas in Africa. We could do a swap. Send some good hard working people from an African country and you anarcho capitalist, corporate boot lickers can go live in your anarchist utopia there
Naw, nothing that good would be my guess. If the cops even know who he is, it is probably because he is either a 'First Amendment auditor' or some stripe of sovereign citizen.
Exactly and this interaction just highlighted something about Charlie Kirk few knew before, he supports the seizure of private property for the benefit of the government. Everything he listed are civil services and are paid for by taxes not just ones property tax either. So his argument is illogical and irrational, when one considers the actual tax burden paid by the American people, renters do not pay a property tax in most states so they are taxed for those same civil services in another way showing that a property tax isn't needed for said civil services so where is the money really going?
@@jericho1-4 No He supports taxation for public benefit. Renters pay rent, which includes the cost of property taxes, to the owner. Property taxes are often allocated for schools. We can tell where the money is supposed to go. The problem is we need to shrink government so the money goes where it's supposed to and taxes will be lower.
@@jericho1-4 What on earth are you talking about ? Renters absolutely PAY property taxes; they pay via rent increases by their landlords; are you kidding ? It's obvious you've never looked at a property tax bill; it's itemized to include funds for public schools; the library; the maintenance of the median of the roads you travel locally; repair of traffic lights to road expansion. I could go on and on; some of those taxes also fund pensions for civil service workers. Charlie absolutely knows what he's talking about.....
@@RARochester Yes it is calculated into their rent as is water/waste and utilities where applicable and all associates taxes that come with them. My property tax bill does pay for many civil services but I also pay taxes in other property related necessities that are said to pay for those same civil services. I actually have to pay a tax for the fire service to respond to my address for a call for services, which is allegedly covered by my property tax, water bill tax waste tax utilities tax according to my state (Montana). The claim that property tax pays for civil services isn't true it pays the administration cost not for the actual applicable and available services itself which is why Americans pay taxes on items daily/monthly they purchas or for services that are not tax deductible, even if one is itemizing when filing. Taxes that are greatly mismanaged by the local, county, state and federal governments. That is my issue the mismanaged taxes we pay as citizens that always seem to.increase year after year.
Ur taxed when ur born, ur tax when u earn money, ur tax when u spend money, ur tax when u risk YOUR money and win but no tax breaks when u lose it, tax even when u die... how bout the land of the free u pay one time and then be free
@@rustyshackleford3320 Okay. How much is that one time payment again? Right now, every US citizen carries $106, 787.00. That's 106 thousand, 787 dollars. And it's constantly going up. Do you want to pay that in a lump sum, or will you continue to make payments with the rest of us? Until we can either get a good plan for that or stop government expansion it'll only get worse.
Exactly. If he doesn't want to pay the club dues, he can go to a different club. Antarctic would be one place that comes to mind where he could exist free of taxes. He should start there.
@docliquidplays7989 start with tariffs and work to aggressively bring manufacturing of everything back to the USA. In addition, and I doubt this will happen, but eliminating the Federal Reserve Act and going back on the gold standard. I'm sure there are other things that will work in conjunction with at least some of these but it would be a great start
@hebozhe Technically Kirk does have an argument, and the student is using it against him. Kirk is just being a hypocrite because "We need it" and "well you were forced to use this thing we own so you must pay for it in perpetuity"
"Just because we want to tax you, create thousands of laws, and threaten you with prison if you break any laws doesn't mean we are socialist." Ok, it's not right or fair, though, even though I generally agree with most of Charlie's other points.
Both of them are describing what the government is supposed to do terribly. It's simple, a collective of people go about their day and find a problem, say a crime is an issue, well, the collect can't just all stop what their doing and police crime all day, so they appoint and pay someone to do it for them. Literally can be applied to any government function. The problem with our government and with socalism, is that the government becomes less accountable to the people who appointed them. Our government does this by over regulating everything, while socalism takes everything from the people and distributes it back "evenly." Both lack accountability and the ability to cause change if the people don't like it.
The kid is right. Taxes do NOT fund "roads bridges police and firefighters". We had ALL those things before 1913 with ZERO income taxes. They were funded strictly through TARIFFS. Taxation is NOT about income, it is about CONTROL. "Do what we want and it costs you less (provide jobs, housing etc), do what we don't want and it costs you more (people who think fast food or retail is a "career"). If the government can print all the money it wants (and clearly they DO!), then why the HELL do they need YOURS?
@TheHigherVoltage That is correct. This is the basic fallacy of "tax the rich". You CAN'T tax the rich. They do not pay taxes. They do not pay expenses of any kind. Expenses, including taxes, are passed on to the consumer. Try taking a billion dollars from Elon Musk and see what happens to the price of a new Tesla etc etc
And this is why I'm not a conservative I'm a libertarian. And so is trump. Hate to break it to you guys. Charlie hates libertarians. I guarantee you people like kirk, owens, and the ilk that follow Shapiro, will turn on trump as soon as he starts limiting the government that they like.
Incredible you can be so dead wrong about this. Trump is the least economically libertarian the GOP has had since Richard Nixon. He specifically rejected the privatization of social security which was a major project of the old GOP establishment, cut legal immigration, spent a ton of money during his administration, and he brought in protectionist tariffs to the GOP platform.
Kid is based. Kirk is inconsistent. He invokes Rothbard occasionally. Now questioning whether he’s read Rothbard. Who defines “reasonable”, “moderate” , “necessary”? Kirk’s the one engaging in sloppy intellectual thinking
@@RARochester If we are taxed at 50% now, and if 96% of that is wasteful and corrupted, then that leaves 4% of 50% - AKA 2%. Let people keep their own money. Reduce the size of govt.
@@9999deoxys How did you determine that 96% is wasteful ? Where did you get 50% tax ? Is that property tax; state sales tax; state income tax; FICA ? Where did you get these numbers and what's the breakdown ?
Well the ting is that taxes are 100 % UNLAWFUL, however are voluntary! Taes are required from foreign states, corporations and commerce! The Sovereign American Private Citizens are 100 % EXEMPT!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@liquidmagma it's cute that you think we had no military, only dirt roads, etc., until after 1913 when the income tax was instituted... I have some ocean front property in Colorado i can sell you, too.
@@WhiskeyPapa42 IT's adorable that you think there were anywhere near a significant amount of paved roads that would require any type of tax to pay for them up to 1913. And the military was minimal. Hang on to your CO ocean front property. I'm sure you're convinced it's a good investment.
Why the chaos? The students is 100% right. Kirk believes in the confiscation of private property by the government at the point of a gun. And he acts upset and interrupts the student because he has been caught. He asks the student if he has ever been to a hospital, but Kirk also says healthcare should be private. So why would we need taxpayer funded healthcare? What's more, the federal income tax has only existed for 100 years or so. The country was just fine before that, without Kirk's 10%.
Challenging people's steadfastly-held, dogmatic beliefs is one of the most dangerous things a person can do. They tend to get quite angry, violent, name-call, etc. Especially when you expose their hypocrisy and they realize it.
Most Hospitals aren’t privately owned, and many are paid for through Hospital District funds (public taxes with citizen-manned oversight boards). But yes, there ARE private hospitals in the US that make huge profits.
I second that. I’ve worked at 2 different hospitals in 2 different states. Both were public government funded hospitals. As are like 90% of the hospitals in the country. In a way is a good thing as they are all held to a similar standard.
@@aprilrrain Where I live in Florida, there are nothing BUT private hospitals and Rick Scott got very rich being the CEO of a large chain of hospitals.
@@stephencivic1989 In 2023, 14.7% of Medicare-enrolled hospitals were government-owned, while 36.1% were for-profit and 49.2% were non-profit. In 2020, about 80% of general acute care hospitals were controlled by private or non-profit organizations. Two-thirds of urban hospitals are non-profit, with the remaining third split between public and for-profit hospitals. So, the data just does not agree with you experiences.
@@jimichan7649 if that’s what it shows? Then that’s what it shows. But I do wonder if your data is reflecting hospitals across the Country or only in Florida? Also don’t think that websites won’t alter or fabricate data. Because if you are getting your data from places such as the NIH. I don’t trust a word those companies post. And if it’s from the media like MSNBC, CNN, CBS, it’s all bullshit.
Ur taxed when ur born, ur tax when u earn money, ur tax when u spend money, ur tax when u risk YOUR money and win but no tax breaks when u lose it, tax even when u die... how bout the land of the free u pay one time and then be free
10% Taxes I agree and add, no tax returns. To confiscate people's property is wrong, I paid for it, it's mine, can't take it from me. No property taxes.
The other thing they're failing to mention when you're a drug dealer you get your possessions taken away because you earned them making drug money. Same thing goes for other organized crime you lose your house your car everything. And it goes up for auction. This kid is the type when he when he does graduate if he graduates will still live in his mommy's basement😂
Yeah i mean, Taxes are needed. Otherwise you immediately lose all public services. Like somebody has to pay those people and that money has to go somewhere. It's a form of controlled contribution to provide you with
You're right, but it's important to make the distinction between social programs and socialism. Some social programs are necessary, socialism is an all encompassing political philosophy and is not necessary.
@@chadlevitan7886 It's important to understand that the United States has a mixed economy. Part capitalism. Part socialism. Some people don't want to admit that. Some people go to and support public schools, yet denounce all forms of socialism as being evil, including social programs. Some people also fail to recognize that socialist countries like Norway and Sweden often have higher levels of happiness, health, and prosperity than capitalist countries.
@@deanalbertson7203 The Nordic countries are not socialist. They are capitalist with social programs. Mixed economy yes and to a greater degree than the US certainly which absolutely is a mixed economy as well, but socialist, no, and their leadership has come right out and stated that. Let's remember that the defining characteristic of socialism is forced ownership of major industry by the workers and not private interests. The US can absolutely do a better job with it's social programs and take a cue from several European countries, especially the Nordic ones, but it is still an important distinction not to conflate socialism with social programs. Those two things are very different. Under socialism a private entity cannot compete with those social programs, under capitalism it can. For reference, though those Nordic countries were pretty strongly socialist at one point (70s-90s), you can look at the Heritage Foundations index of economic freedom. The US currently rates below Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. They 100% recognize that you need the economic prosperity of capitalism to fund those programs.
This is tough to say, but the guy is right. Taxation is theft. I understand that because we've done something a certain way for a little over 100 years, that may seem like the only solution. But as an engineer, I can tell you with 200% certainty that there are ALWAYS alternatives. Confiscation of private property by force is theft. Period. Could we fund police, firefighters, other "government" services without theft? Hard to know until you've tried something. For the vast majority of essential services, for the first half of our country's history, those WERE privately provided. Or done on a volunteer basis.
It's good to see that someone has a historical contextual understanding of taxes. Charlie is just wrong about this one but hopefully he'll understand over time. I'm an engineer also. Maybe that's not just a coincidence. Have a good day.
Taxes to fund streets, police/fire depts and mutual public services is not socialism. Yes - I'm against taxation, but would you prefer a 10% tax for basic necessary public services or a 50% tax for a runaway government gone wild like we have now?
This dude lying first of all, there is no way this dude has NEVER gone to the hospital or in his entire life. Heck you were born in one if you a citizen.
Find another way to support services. The one single item that was perverted was the right to feel safe in one's home. No government should be able (ideally) to confiscate property based on taxation.
The argument presented in the video is not that having police, courts, military, or whatever your pet government program is, makes you a socialist nation. The argument is that those programs are socialist. Which they are.
No, they are not. Socialism is about means of production and commodities. Police, fire, etc. are considered "public goods/services" and are not "socialism". Public goods exist in virtually every form of government. They exist in every implementation of Capitalism due to the included nature of helping to protect private property.
@@WhiskeyPapa42 Yes, they are. It is no different whether the public means of production is that of a commodity or a service. Obamacare is a service why is that socialism? All government is socialism. The government takes money through taxation and redistributes it to how it sees as fit. It does not matter if it is for the police or for health insurance. Police courts and military are not capitalism.
I don't believe in taxation of the people, I do believe that each state should have it's own reasonable flat tax at point of purchase and that the US abolish the IRS.
This is why I am a libertarian and not a conservative. Both the left and right want to define "reasonable" but to me it is never reasonable to take something from another against their will.
It's a mandated payment often allocated for services. You don't get something else when something is confiscated from you, and the object can be often returned when certain requirements for the return of the same is satisfied.
One could argue that we could have a minimalist government, that instead of taxes, actually provided purchasable services which then could contribute to it's funding. Perhaps get rid of the private banks and give the government the sole right to establish loans. Just an idea.
Taxes to fund first responders as well as other services, could be collected on a volunteer basis. Not taxation but rather donation. If congress can’t sell the American people in legislation, it gets no funding.
I mean, most of the services we have are privatized already. Government agents aren’t out there building roads. They are just hiring contractors with our money. We’re basically just paying for someone to middle manage our money.
If you want a government to administer laws, then you pay for those services through taxes. This is not the confiscation of property: you get something in exchange for a fee. However, taking of one person's property to give to another person is an unlawful taking and, hence, a confiscation.
This student has a valid point; a lot of us on the right call taxation theft, and it is. Why not fund the govt by donation?; and tariffs, as I believe it used to be.
The education system has totally failed.
It's called taxation without valid representation.
A social contract that every citizen agrees to implicitly and tacitly.
anything other then me being the autocrat is invalid representation
@stevenfromer3816 clearly you're wrong. So says the reason the United States exists to begin with...
That's the case where citizens have no representative govt. Are you saying our representatives are not part of a valid government?
@@WilliamAkins-rw2hv No sweetheart, that's the case even when we have 'representatives' in our government. It's also especially the case when our so-called representatives no longer represent our best interests but instead show themselves to represent only themselves and their own self interests.
Never had to call the cops, fire department or an ambulance?? Wow. What a privilege to have such a nice life. Lots of us are not so lucky.
The point is, we should be able to spend our money the way we want. If we want to be in the cop club, the fire club and ambulance club, we'll pay for that by our own volition. Govt. is slavery and violence because it steals it's funds from the people and gives us no choice of how to spend our private property. Charlie is wrong here.
He's clealy lying.
He's in his 20's so not really unusual or privileged for most Americans.
I'm in my 50s and have never gone to the ER and my only interaction with cops have been with them taking a report at a car accident scene for my insurance company. I'm middle class now, but lived in some sketchy areas in my 20s.
@@chosen2030you are irrelevant in the bigger picture, hundreds of millions of people use services daily
Have you ever used a road?
@pauljansen6650 there was no bigger picture, an individual was asked about whether or not he ever needed those services. I don't think it's that odd that a 20 yr old said no. What are you missing?
Government is necessary. Bloated, corrupt, and tax-happy government is not. This is not a complex issue.
Why is it necessary?
@@dtm1351because people will work in their individual best interests.
That’s not a good thing when we collectively have to drive on freeways, fight wars, build bridges & buildings, provide clean water, run a court system etc
@@helloitsmehb So if all those things that you mentioned are not in people's best interests, then why should it be forced on them?
@@dtm1351 I said people always act in their own self interests
@@helloitsmehb Correct, and I said that if all of these things that you mentioned are not in their best self-interests, then why should they be forced on them?
A libertarian generally believes in MINIMAL government and minimal taxation to fund it. That was the belief of our founders and is what is written as our primary law.
Socialists want a considerably larger government with more powers...and naturally, a higher degree of taxation. An ever-increasing degree of taxation, it seems.
Here's a thought: What if we hold our federal government strictly to its limited powers and duties, and have state/local government supply social services as they see fit and can afford to, while still respecting the fundamental rights of the people?
It is virtually impossible for local government to spend their citizens into a state of debt slavery as the federal government can...and has. I'm not sure how that would end, but it really can't be any worse than what we are doing. The current approach is going to end us.
How would that plan work in the blue state I live in , that's billions of dollars in debt
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
As a libertarian I fully endorse this explanation. I hate government intervention in my life and taxes, but am willing to accept a certain amount of both in order to maintain an orderly polite protected society within an independent nation. I wholly reject the concept of a world government or an appointed governing body like the EU or UN
The only way to limit them to only the power granted to the fed is the 2nd amendment. People being scared to exercise it is exactly how we got into this mess.
How it would end.
I may have an answer.
Kingdom of France, 1789. After 2 years of awful harvest, wheat went in shortage, so went bread and other primary food. The French subjectd thought the King wouls find a solution. The kingdom had a have debt and à large part of it was to pay for wars and to pay interests on debt. There were 3 orders in France back then : the aristocracy (the nobles), the Clergy and the 3rd state (95% of population). The king decided to gather all the orders and their representatives in order to decide about his solution : more taxes. Aristocrats and Clergy didn't pay any taxes. The 3rd State's represtatives didn't agree. Despite the fact they were way more numéros than the 2 other orders, their voiries would count for only 1. The aristocrate and Clergy's representatives would agree with the King and would be 2 orders vs 1. Then the 3rd state's representatives were locked up and got forbidden to access the Assembly. They gathered and took an oath : the one to give the People a Constitution and to end priviledges. The king, the aristocrats and the Clergy didn't agree... the French Revolution began.
and they want their tuition paid by the taxpayers...
No can do. I paid for mine
@@carolluther1625 biden already signed it...obama said "never underestimate joe biden to f*** things up...the worst admin in US...
Ask the guy if he has ever used a road.
I believe in taxes but they shouldn't be able to take your home after u done paid for it!
That's bullshit but thanks for drinking the kool-aid
Roads are paid via socialist programs. They are technically part of socialism
Also hospitals aren't government funded they are mostly privately owned and paid via insurance companies
the gov doesnt build the roads, its funded by the gov. private companies build roads. capitalism = no roads? thats silly
@@fl3082 what the f*** - please clarify your comment. Details please.
Damn these people have such slappable faces
What a great comment!!!
I don't mind so much that they tax me a reasonable amount, my problem and everyone else's is what they do with the absurd amount they get
Charlie has the most slappable face maybe in history 😂
This had me laughing out loud for real. 😂
No skin in the game but these punks know everything. Wait until he gets into the real world. All he knows about life is someone else is paying for it.
Cops don’t like him? Yeah, I bet he’s a reeeal menace 🙄😂😂
They probably see him as a time waster,the guy that calls the police on people for mean tweets.
He is EXACTLY the kind of person that calls the cops at a moments notice.
@@smasher.338 Yep, and a minute later will call to defund them.
He's definitely the type to call cops for people speaking peacefully in public.
He said he never called the cops... not that I believe him.
Such a entitled and privileged child.🤣🤣🤣
Which one?
@@unbreakable7633 Look in a mirror.
@@Political_Brainrot_Auditor Insults are not a substitute for expressing a cohesive thought. And insulting each other is simply getting us nowhere. I was asking a real question, which person did Madcatz mean?
@@unbreakable7633 Look. In. A. Mirror.
@@unbreakable7633 Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
he has never called the cops, he has never used a hospital, he mostly likely also never paid taxes
he's probably never showered either
Taxation is grape
And he never tell lies either...
Nonquitters are not a reasonable argument, I've worked over fifty years of my life, I called an ambulance once. Get off your high horse.
@@JohnMcClain-p9t"nonsequitur"
If you cant distinguish between reasonable taxes to fund limited government and socialism, please get out of line.
The educational system in this country needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt
Asking younger people that question using the wrong examples. How about ever been to a public school, park, airport, professional sports stadium? Ever use a public road, sidewalk or bike path? It takes money, as in taxes to provide for the public, not just services but places as well.
My public school was filled with legitimately insane teachers power tripping and indoctrinating people. I couldn't even do extra-curriculars because they went on strike every other year. All the parks around me are now homeless encampments. The airport near me is a heavily subsidized private enterprise where it takes 2 hours to get your bags at the claim. I don't watch sports. Every road or bike path is now costing more than 1 million dollars per mile and takes 5 years+ to build. WOW! What a great return on investment my taxes get.
It doesn't matter. Fundamentally taxation is theft..
@@terminalvalence9871 Blame your local and state government and work to make your community better.
@@goldengryphonWow! I never thought of that, killer response dude! Truly, just a little bit of elbow grease is all that's required to reverse the consequences of the largest, most corrupt, most incompetent, most inefficient organization in the western world. Did you go to Harvard?
One percent. Every citizen.
Huge difference between "The Social Contract" and socialism being promoted at modern universities.
The social contract is not a valid contract. You can't practically NOT sign it. You can not read all the terms. You can't show me my signature on the contract. We are forced to sign it. Socialism is evil, and the myth of the social contract is used to sell socialism.
Both drawn directly from Rousseaux.
“You hate socialism, so why do you want any government at all?”
This is his argument. Just lol.
it is a valid argument.
@@connannbarbarin3033 If you want to live in a society, why don't you live in communism?
These things are not equivalencies. Socialism isn't government; Communism isn't society.
There are things that aren't absolutes. You can season a dish with just a little salt where using All The Salt would be overkill.
@@goldengryphon I personally want an feudalistic absolute monarchy with me as the monarch, but original argument still stands. By which principle 10% for army is ok, but 90% for everything* is bad? None. Just personal preference.
@@connannbarbarin3033 I'm a Constitutional Libertarian (not one of the crazies), so I see where you're going. I don't want to go there, but you're perfectly free to *want* whatever you can talk people into.
His point is any '%' of taxation is ultimately a form of socialism. What's the difference between a society that has a 10% flat tax compared to a 20% tax? They're both forms of socialism, just to a different degree. China also has things like police, healthcare, publicly funded roads. Why is their form of 'socialism' inherently different?
Charlie could have easily said "the likelihood you were born in a hospital is somewhere in the 99.5% range."
PERFECT lol
But we have to pay completely unfair prices to hospitals, in addition to paying taxes that fund them. That's not a good example
@@AlexA-cn5ipbuddy canadas tax rate is fucking demented because we have healthcare, plus half the time you don’t get properly diagnosed. Speaking from experience. I’d be pumped if my job was accountable for my healthcare but I still paid some taxes for like an MRI machine or some shit. Typical socialist lovers literally don’t have the brain power to notice other things right in front of them. YOU DIDNT SEE THE GORILLA
The reason for that is so government can get people a social security number...if your not giving the hospital your social security number they will try to take your kids from you
It's because your owners want u to get social security number
A 5% sales tax and nothing else should be more than enough for a properly budgeted government, instead we have rampant abuse and waste.
Where specifically would that 5% go? How does that get distributed?
Let's say a in a city of 1,000 households, $100 is able to buy groceries for a week per household. 5% sales tax means $5/purchase totaling ~$5,000/week and possibly ~$20,000/month. Now if you are correct and a balanced and budgeted government can run on that, how would you distribute that $20,000/month between city, county, state and federal for tax fundings?
Yes obviously there are more purchases beyond groceries and $100 is a variable amount that could be higher or lower, but in your system, I can't imagine more than $70,000/month comes from sales tax. Does that sound like enough to fund a proper government at city, county, state and federal levels?
@@SSPerfectChaosRCTSales tax is better than income tax. With sales tax everyone pays according to how much they spend. With income tax, corporations get benefits and rich people are able to avoid taxes while living in luxury.
@SSPerfectChaosRCT Yes, it does sound like an appropriate amount to fund a PROPER government, because the government has an inherent monopoly on the use of force, it is exceedingly important to limit its capacity to abuse that monopoly. Simply because I don't want a government solution to a problem does not mean that I don't want any solution at all, I'm quite willing to consider private sector alternatives any time it is even as good as a government alternative, even though in virtually every instance I have seen it is vastly superior
@johnhildenbrand2642 yea, try to set that up, see how that works. I'm not for big government either, but at the levels you're talking about, you may as well just have no government, forego the sales tax entirely and let the mob, as in a people's mob, control it all.
Read Niel Bortz book about flat tax. Very informative.
I've said this over and over again... one more time: "social programs" is not equal to "socialism". Get it straight, people on the Left!
Social programs are socialist ideals though.
They know the difference. They have been trained from the same playbook!! Play dumb! They are disingenuous and totally lacking in basic honesty. They are the toxic waste of all humanity.
uhh....doesn't that go the other direction also? more "social programs" doesn't equal socialism should be told to the people on the right? ACA was called socialism before it was enacted but now many see it as a social program.
Social programs are socialism, it's in the name. If the social programs are public that is, meaning government run.
But police = socialism.
10% is reasonable, but they take about 20% from each of my checks rn
Yeah and then everything you do with the rest is taxed in some way. In reality, we're all taxed much more than 20%.
20% you are lucky
38%+++ In Canada. If you make 250K a year, they take basically half of it.
Why is 10% reasonable but 20% isn't?
Ya you shouldn't keep getting taxed after you get taxed on your paycheck, but the why is it more reasonable? If you make $60K a year 20% is $12K, 10% is $6K, that's a big difference to me
Never needed the Cops. Never drank public water. Never been to the hospital. He needs to grow up.
You aren't a grown up until you need cops? It is nice to see you all admitting that hospitals are socialism though, needing public or social funds to manage. Public water like flint? Interesting
Never used a road never walked on a side walk never had trash collected.
Just because you have never called the cops doesn't mean you have not relied on them every single day of your life. Basically, capitalism requires the government to enforce property laws, and that requires a police force of some description. They have to be paid for, so you need some level of taxes.
Most schools make you do physicals at different grade levels, somehow this kid slipped through the cracks and became antivaxer
@@shadowbanned5164 you are thinking this kid is arguing for anarchism. He's not. What he is clearly trying to do is give Charlie a gotchya, and will be contrarian whenever possible... this is unfortunately what it is like to discuss most things with most leftists. They will strawman, attack your character, play dumb, purposefully misinterpret to feign offense, mock, smugly giggle, and do anything to feel like they got you. They aren't concerned about sincerely understanding the sincere meaning behind what anyone is saying unless it is something they can use to gain favor and flatter themselves.
Would you lend someone a dollar? So you'd give up all your money?
Well, that's quite a stretch. However, him saying that the cops don't like him makes perfect sense.
Cops want him institutionalized. 😁😁😁
Love students who think they know everything without actuality living life.
I find it funny conservatives defending socialism
@@AverageJoe-12
I find it funny you apparently don't know the definition of socialism. Pretty ironic, comrade!
@@timezup16 The graduated income tax is socialism which leads to communism.
10 planks of Communism
Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.
A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.
Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.
Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.
Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.
Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.
Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.
Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.
Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.
Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production..
@@AverageJoe-12Is that you in this video? 😅
@@AverageJoe-12national socialism works just fine. The issue is when you extend benefits to people who don't pay in, and an onerous regulatory behemoth, high taxes, and a staff of parasitic bureaucrats. Big government attracts leftists like flies, so it's best to keep the state modest in scope.
That poor student thinks he actually has an argument. Wow.
he does.
He does
@@TheDmanMAno he doesn’t he’s taking a small part and then applying it to a whole which doesn’t work
He does
He does
I've been to the hospital and ridden in an ambulance. I paid for them, not my taxes.
The government use to run fine without an income tax.
When did the government run fine without income tax? 1770?
@@PaulF72 1860, then they needed cash to fight the civil war.
@@BNOBLE981 I mean, you could just look up the answer instead of inventing things.
The stupidity with that one is immeasurable
if the government was run properly it wouldn't need to tax anyone
Explain how that's suppose to work. For example, who's to pay for our national defense?
@@TheHigherVoltage well tax only accounts for about 30% of our GDP, which could easily be eliminated from the budget if the government stopped wasting money on needless things, but the way the government works is to constantly increase spending even when they decrease spending
How did the Soviets do this without any taxation of any kind?
We need some social program as a safety net, not as a hammock.
DAMN 😂😂😂😂
Such a perfect analogy.
The problem is that anything that is provided by the government becomes an entitlement, and that's how people act; entitled.
What we should have is networked charitable services. So that people in need can be placed in contact with people willing to help out.
The government could liaise with philanthropists and institutions to help identify what services are needed so that those with the money know how to best apply it, but that's about as far as it should go.
@@nono7105 That's just nonsense. Some taxes are needed to fund roads, infrastructure etc.
@@eddiewinehosen6665 I did not say there should be no taxes. I am talking about welfare programs. Obviously.
Interesting. He proved that Charlie doesn't believe that "taxation is thief", but that it can be thief under certain circumstances. But that's not s disputed cliam at all, everyone agrees on that.
That sounds like a way to say it isn't wrong when I do it
Taxation is theft, pure and simple since noone can say : "No thanks." and can refuse to pay taxes. The thing is what justifies the taxation. Mostly, it is to pay people who want to protect others, their Rights, their lands/areas. The government is the People's entity created by the People, for the People which goal is to pay these guardians with the People's money and to remind them who they work for.
Mainly cops, firefighters, standing soldiers (I know it wasn't the case in the creation of the U.S.A) are these guardians. Governments have become those they work for, and governments always ask more and more money for other tasks (socialist stuff such as transport, health, school, road, electricity, water, food, industry/production,...) neglecting their only mission : protect the People's Rights.
The kid is completely right.
He's braindead. 🤬🤪🤬
Never been to a hospital. What a liar
Hospital is government funded? Nice to see you all admitting it is socialist and that's the entire problem
Right, you have to go multiple times as a kid for shots, to say he has never been to the hospital is crazy.
Serious question. What does a hospital have to do with taxes? I’ve paid multiple hospital bills pretty damn big too. Do taxes pay for the hospital?
@@FlatPlaneCranky fr my ambulance ride 1000 bucks like what
I’d never been to a hospital until I was 38 years old, so I believe him 100%. Plus, a hospital has nothing to do with social services because it wasn’t free or subsidized!
The kid is factually correct. Taxes are the forceful confiscation of private property at gunpoint. Providing "services" to victims does not make theft consensual.
Taxes have been around since the beginning of human civilization. If you use a resource but do not contribute that is also a form of confiscation so society taxes its citizens. I agree that gov't go overboard and some taxes are unjust but if you think you can have any civilization without taxes you are dreaming.
@@mikesedam616 Hi Mike, many thanks for weighing in on my comment. I aim to be fully respectful to you in my reply.
There is a lot one can say about your comments, and you make a lot of good points. However, the most crucial one on which I will focus is one which I think you will agree is a fallacy, or an error in your reasoning:
You are confusing historical precedent with consent. Let's define terms. Consent means you agree to something. It can be explicit or implicit. If I agreed to pay for something I use but then refuse to pay, I'm doing wrong by violating my contract. If someone promises to protect me and my property against theft by robbers, but then takes my money at gunpoint, they are doing wrong by violating their contract.
This is the point. 1. I never explicitly agreed to pay for the things for which my money is forcefully taken under threat. 2. Even of you claim I implicitly agreed to these terms, there is still an obvious contract violation in that one of the most crucial services claiming to be provided ('protection") is broken when the ones allegedly providing the "service" hold people in cages for nonpayment. In any other case, it is simply enough to kick out a person who does not pay, say from a restaurant. It is entirely unique among government "services" that nonpayment (even by those who *explicitly* consent, setting aside for a moment those who do not) results in physical incarceration and a loss of all freedom as a penalty.
At best, this is a barbaric and ancient relic of prehistoric justice that has no place in modern society. At worst, it is the rebranding of a mafia protection racket with the regalia of legitimacy.
Wishing you all the best and happiness in your day today, and thanks in advance for considering my comments.
Then leave the country. "Love it or leave it" as these people like to say. We live in a civilized society and all under agreement. There are anarchist areas in Africa. We could do a swap. Send some good hard working people from an African country and you anarcho capitalist, corporate boot lickers can go live in your anarchist utopia there
"Cops don't like me..." LOL! What? Why? Is this kid Jack Reacher or something?
Naw, nothing that good would be my guess. If the cops even know who he is, it is probably because he is either a 'First Amendment auditor' or some stripe of sovereign citizen.
The cops don't like him he says , he is probably on their radar . They probably busted him selling drugs
You aren't brave enough to look up all the vids of cops harassing innocent americans.
Our taxes don’t pay for ambulances. You get a nice bill after a ride in an ambulance.
We need to cut Government funding like crazy
Currently the USA costs more to run than it takes in taxes per year...That reeks of Government corruption and cronyism
Exactly and this interaction just highlighted something about Charlie Kirk few knew before, he supports the seizure of private property for the benefit of the government. Everything he listed are civil services and are paid for by taxes not just ones property tax either. So his argument is illogical and irrational, when one considers the actual tax burden paid by the American people, renters do not pay a property tax in most states so they are taxed for those same civil services in another way showing that a property tax isn't needed for said civil services so where is the money really going?
@@jericho1-4 No He supports taxation for public benefit. Renters pay rent, which includes the cost of property taxes, to the owner. Property taxes are often allocated for schools. We can tell where the money is supposed to go. The problem is we need to shrink government so the money goes where it's supposed to and taxes will be lower.
@@jericho1-4 What on earth are you talking about ? Renters absolutely PAY property taxes; they pay via rent increases by their landlords; are you kidding ? It's obvious you've never looked at a property tax bill; it's itemized to include funds for public schools; the library; the maintenance of the median of the roads you travel locally; repair of traffic lights to road expansion. I could go on and on; some of those taxes also fund pensions for civil service workers. Charlie absolutely knows what he's talking about.....
@@RARochester Yes it is calculated into their rent as is water/waste and utilities where applicable and all associates taxes that come with them. My property tax bill does pay for many civil services but I also pay taxes in other property related necessities that are said to pay for those same civil services. I actually have to pay a tax for the fire service to respond to my address for a call for services, which is allegedly covered by my property tax, water bill tax waste tax utilities tax according to my state (Montana). The claim that property tax pays for civil services isn't true it pays the administration cost not for the actual applicable and available services itself which is why Americans pay taxes on items daily/monthly they purchas or for services that are not tax deductible, even if one is itemizing when filing. Taxes that are greatly mismanaged by the local, county, state and federal governments. That is my issue the mismanaged taxes we pay as citizens that always seem to.increase year after year.
What's he worried about? He loves living here with ALL benefits! If he doesnt love it here, he's FREE to leave ANYTIME he wants! Maybe go to Cuba!
✨️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️✨️✊️
Your telling an anarcho capitalist to move to a socialist country? 💀
Ur taxed when ur born, ur tax when u earn money, ur tax when u spend money, ur tax when u risk YOUR money and win but no tax breaks when u lose it, tax even when u die... how bout the land of the free u pay one time and then be free
@@rustyshackleford3320 Okay. How much is that one time payment again?
Right now, every US citizen carries $106, 787.00. That's 106 thousand, 787 dollars.
And it's constantly going up.
Do you want to pay that in a lump sum, or will you continue to make payments with the rest of us? Until we can either get a good plan for that or stop government expansion it'll only get worse.
Exactly. If he doesn't want to pay the club dues, he can go to a different club. Antarctic would be one place that comes to mind where he could exist free of taxes. He should start there.
Taxation is theft, period. There are other ways to "fund a govt" without taxing it's citizens
Such as?
@docliquidplays7989 start with tariffs and work to aggressively bring manufacturing of everything back to the USA. In addition, and I doubt this will happen, but eliminating the Federal Reserve Act and going back on the gold standard. I'm sure there are other things that will work in conjunction with at least some of these but it would be a great start
@Rescue91b, I agree. We need manufacturing jobs here again.
@@Rescue91b
Finally somebody mentioning the reintroduction of the Gold Standard!
Based. The kid is right. Taxation is theft.
Grow up! 🤬🤪🤬
Nope sales tax and tariffs no need for income tax
Imagine if the responsibility of national security fell on the individual citizens 😂😂😂
Ding ding ding the kid is naive. Pay your bills and support a household and then ask him the same question....
The ancap is right. Kirk has no defense.
@hebozhe Technically Kirk does have an argument, and the student is using it against him. Kirk is just being a hypocrite because "We need it" and "well you were forced to use this thing we own so you must pay for it in perpetuity"
@@darkfang25 Oh, he has an argument. It's just so bad as to not constitute a defense.
"unreasonable".... And who determines what is reasonable or unreasonable? The government? Exactly.
"Just because we want to tax you, create thousands of laws, and threaten you with prison if you break any laws doesn't mean we are socialist." Ok, it's not right or fair, though, even though I generally agree with most of Charlie's other points.
Charlie Kirk couldn't survive a minute of scrutiny under Tom Woods.
Charlie is annoying
Wow, this guy is so messed up. I’m glad Charlie is there to help this confused guy.
Both of them are describing what the government is supposed to do terribly.
It's simple, a collective of people go about their day and find a problem, say a crime is an issue, well, the collect can't just all stop what their doing and police crime all day, so they appoint and pay someone to do it for them. Literally can be applied to any government function. The problem with our government and with socalism, is that the government becomes less accountable to the people who appointed them. Our government does this by over regulating everything, while socalism takes everything from the people and distributes it back "evenly." Both lack accountability and the ability to cause change if the people don't like it.
The kid is right. Taxes do NOT fund "roads bridges police and firefighters". We had ALL those things before 1913 with ZERO income taxes. They were funded strictly through TARIFFS.
Taxation is NOT about income, it is about CONTROL. "Do what we want and it costs you less (provide jobs, housing etc), do what we don't want and it costs you more (people who think fast food or retail is a "career").
If the government can print all the money it wants (and clearly they DO!), then why the HELL do they need YOURS?
😂😂😂😂
Tariffs are a form of tax ultimately paid by the consumer.
@TheHigherVoltage
That is correct. This is the basic fallacy of "tax the rich". You CAN'T tax the rich. They do not pay taxes. They do not pay expenses of any kind. Expenses, including taxes, are passed on to the consumer.
Try taking a billion dollars from Elon Musk and see what happens to the price of a new Tesla etc etc
U sound like the kids brother...
Socialism and social programs & infrastructure are two totally different things. It's like comparing apples to moon rocks.
@Wayward2023 no it's not they are all the same thing.
@@MATTHEWMARTELLO-l1j No, they aren't. Therein lies the problem.
@Wayward2023 yes they are. When governments take money from the people to create things for the public, that is socialism
Kirk would have been better off if he'd correctly defined socialism.
And this is why I'm not a conservative I'm a libertarian. And so is trump. Hate to break it to you guys. Charlie hates libertarians. I guarantee you people like kirk, owens, and the ilk that follow Shapiro, will turn on trump as soon as he starts limiting the government that they like.
Incredible you can be so dead wrong about this.
Trump is the least economically libertarian the GOP has had since Richard Nixon.
He specifically rejected the privatization of social security which was a major project of the old GOP establishment, cut legal immigration, spent a ton of money during his administration, and he brought in protectionist tariffs to the GOP platform.
@@JamesR1986 no rebuttal necessary. I will let your ignorance stand on it's own.
@@JamesFord-s4t enlighten me
I believe taxation without representation is socialism. I hope with Trump we'll go back to constitutional taxation.
Nope. There is no taxation in Socialism. Ask the former Soviet Union about this. No taxes. None. Zero. Nada.
Kid is based. Kirk is inconsistent. He invokes Rothbard occasionally. Now questioning whether he’s read Rothbard. Who defines “reasonable”, “moderate” , “necessary”?
Kirk’s the one engaging in sloppy intellectual thinking
Kid is an idiot- he thinks having infrastructure, and supporting it, is "socialism". He needs to go back to class.
Reasonable taxation is one thing, but we’re still paying for shit that happened 20-30-40 years ago!! Once the taxes are in, they almost never leave!!
5% at most and 2.5% for federal and 2.5% for state PERIOD!!!
Maybe 2 % at most 1% federal, 1% local. 5% is too much
@9999deoxys your wisdom is undeniable
How on earth did you arrive at such numbers ? There's no accounting for cost of living increases in your statement.
@@RARochester If we are taxed at 50% now, and if 96% of that is wasteful and corrupted, then that leaves 4% of 50% - AKA 2%. Let people keep their own money. Reduce the size of govt.
@@9999deoxys How did you determine that 96% is wasteful ? Where did you get 50% tax ? Is that property tax; state sales tax; state income tax; FICA ? Where did you get these numbers and what's the breakdown ?
I love Charlie, but taxation is theft. Weak dialogue from Charlie on this one. Uncle Sam has no right to put his hands in my pocket.
He's definitely called the cops lol he's full of it
Well the ting is that taxes are 100 % UNLAWFUL, however are voluntary!
Taes are required from foreign states, corporations and commerce!
The Sovereign American Private Citizens are 100 % EXEMPT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where was he born then
I don't think he was born, he was probably hatched.
@abuhannah07 oh shoot you are right
Probably born in a barn, abandoned by his mother.because he looked irredeemable.
Come on Charlie. No to flat rate. No to all income taxes period.
Who's going to pay the military, police, road maintenance, politician salaries etc?
@@liquidmagma The country lasted a rather long time, and still had everything you outlined, before the income tax was implemented.
@@WhiskeyPapa42 We had dirt roads, town appointed sheriffs and no military to speak of.
@@liquidmagma it's cute that you think we had no military, only dirt roads, etc., until after 1913 when the income tax was instituted... I have some ocean front property in Colorado i can sell you, too.
@@WhiskeyPapa42 IT's adorable that you think there were anywhere near a significant amount of paved roads that would require any type of tax to pay for them up to 1913. And the military was minimal.
Hang on to your CO ocean front property. I'm sure you're convinced it's a good investment.
Why the chaos? The students is 100% right. Kirk believes in the confiscation of private property by the government at the point of a gun. And he acts upset and interrupts the student because he has been caught. He asks the student if he has ever been to a hospital, but Kirk also says healthcare should be private. So why would we need taxpayer funded healthcare? What's more, the federal income tax has only existed for 100 years or so. The country was just fine before that, without Kirk's 10%.
Challenging people's steadfastly-held, dogmatic beliefs is one of the most dangerous things a person can do. They tend to get quite angry, violent, name-call, etc. Especially when you expose their hypocrisy and they realize it.
I agree with him. Privatize everything.
So, Anarchism?
Hospitals are private businesses. Exploitative and extremely profitable businesses.
Most
Hospitals aren’t privately owned, and many are paid for through Hospital District funds (public taxes with citizen-manned oversight boards).
But yes, there ARE private hospitals in the US that make huge profits.
I second that. I’ve worked at 2 different hospitals in 2 different states. Both were public government funded hospitals. As are like 90% of the hospitals in the country. In a way is a good thing as they are all held to a similar standard.
@@aprilrrain Where I live in Florida, there are nothing BUT private hospitals and Rick Scott got very rich being the CEO of a large chain of hospitals.
@@stephencivic1989 In 2023, 14.7% of Medicare-enrolled hospitals were government-owned, while 36.1% were for-profit and 49.2% were non-profit.
In 2020, about 80% of general acute care hospitals were controlled by private or non-profit organizations.
Two-thirds of urban hospitals are non-profit, with the remaining third split between public and for-profit hospitals.
So, the data just does not agree with you experiences.
@@jimichan7649 if that’s what it shows? Then that’s what it shows. But I do wonder if your data is reflecting hospitals across the Country or only in Florida? Also don’t think that websites won’t alter or fabricate data. Because if you are getting your data from places such as the NIH. I don’t trust a word those companies post. And if it’s from the media like MSNBC, CNN, CBS, it’s all bullshit.
Ur taxed when ur born, ur tax when u earn money, ur tax when u spend money, ur tax when u risk YOUR money and win but no tax breaks when u lose it, tax even when u die... how bout the land of the free u pay one time and then be free
Tax is extortion
Really really dumb
10% Taxes I agree and add, no tax returns. To confiscate people's property is wrong, I paid for it, it's mine, can't take it from me. No property taxes.
So if you don't pay your 10% what should the punishment be? Jail?
I get what he is trying to say, but I dont agree with him.
Who? The student or Charlie?
@k0rc the student
The other thing they're failing to mention when you're a drug dealer you get your possessions taken away because you earned them making drug money. Same thing goes for other organized crime you lose your house your car everything. And it goes up for auction. This kid is the type when he when he does graduate if he graduates will still live in his mommy's basement😂
Yeah i mean, Taxes are needed. Otherwise you immediately lose all public services.
Like somebody has to pay those people and that money has to go somewhere. It's a form of controlled contribution to provide you with
Finally we meet someone more righteous than us
Bravo 👏
National sales tax in place of income tax. EVERYONE pays and as a result we all pay less.
I can absolutely agree with 10% across the board.
Some forms of socialism are needed. Public schools, roads, hospitals, police, social security, Medicare, and more.
You're right, but it's important to make the distinction between social programs and socialism. Some social programs are necessary, socialism is an all encompassing political philosophy and is not necessary.
@@chadlevitan7886 It's important to understand that the United States has a mixed economy. Part capitalism. Part socialism. Some people don't want to admit that. Some people go to and support public schools, yet denounce all forms of socialism as being evil, including social programs. Some people also fail to recognize that socialist countries like Norway and Sweden often have higher levels of happiness, health, and prosperity than capitalist countries.
@@deanalbertson7203 The Nordic countries are not socialist. They are capitalist with social programs. Mixed economy yes and to a greater degree than the US certainly which absolutely is a mixed economy as well, but socialist, no, and their leadership has come right out and stated that. Let's remember that the defining characteristic of socialism is forced ownership of major industry by the workers and not private interests. The US can absolutely do a better job with it's social programs and take a cue from several European countries, especially the Nordic ones, but it is still an important distinction not to conflate socialism with social programs. Those two things are very different. Under socialism a private entity cannot compete with those social programs, under capitalism it can.
For reference, though those Nordic countries were pretty strongly socialist at one point (70s-90s), you can look at the Heritage Foundations index of economic freedom. The US currently rates below Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. They 100% recognize that you need the economic prosperity of capitalism to fund those programs.
that student is absolutely bonkers
This is tough to say, but the guy is right. Taxation is theft. I understand that because we've done something a certain way for a little over 100 years, that may seem like the only solution. But as an engineer, I can tell you with 200% certainty that there are ALWAYS alternatives. Confiscation of private property by force is theft. Period. Could we fund police, firefighters, other "government" services without theft? Hard to know until you've tried something. For the vast majority of essential services, for the first half of our country's history, those WERE privately provided. Or done on a volunteer basis.
It's good to see that someone has a historical contextual understanding of taxes. Charlie is just wrong about this one but hopefully he'll understand over time.
I'm an engineer also. Maybe that's not just a coincidence. Have a good day.
The kid is right.
Taxation is theft.
I hate this argument. Having a police department is not socialism. Please do more research.
Taxes to fund streets, police/fire depts and mutual public services is not socialism. Yes - I'm against taxation, but would you prefer a 10% tax for basic necessary public services or a 50% tax for a runaway government gone wild like we have now?
All government is socialism.
Property taxes are ridiculous. Gluttonous spending government is atrocious.
This dude lying first of all, there is no way this dude has NEVER gone to the hospital or in his entire life. Heck you were born in one if you a citizen.
Balance....the least required to protect people's rights.
To him, there's no distinction between 10% taxes and 99% taxes. If you support one, you must support the other.
Indeed. Either it violates consent or it doesn’t.
Find another way to support services. The one single item that was perverted was the right to feel safe in one's home. No government should be able (ideally) to confiscate property based on taxation.
The argument presented in the video is not that having police, courts, military, or whatever your pet government program is, makes you a socialist nation. The argument is that those programs are socialist. Which they are.
No, they are not. Socialism is about means of production and commodities. Police, fire, etc. are considered "public goods/services" and are not "socialism". Public goods exist in virtually every form of government. They exist in every implementation of Capitalism due to the included nature of helping to protect private property.
@@WhiskeyPapa42 Yes, they are. It is no different whether the public means of production is that of a commodity or a service. Obamacare is a service why is that socialism? All government is socialism. The government takes money through taxation and redistributes it to how it sees as fit. It does not matter if it is for the police or for health insurance. Police courts and military are not capitalism.
They ALWAYS jump to the extreme right off the bat .
This guy completely dismantled Kirk. Good on him!
Social public services is not socialism. College is a waste if this is the result
College makes you stupid.
I don't believe in taxation of the people, I do believe that each state should have it's own reasonable flat tax at point of purchase and that the US abolish the IRS.
So you don't believe in taxation but you believe in taxes. 🙄
@@liquidmagma Yes, I don't think the government deserves any of my wages I gain through my labor until I decide to go to the store to buy something.
@@SVJoe But you'll use the roads to go shopping...
@@liquidmagma Oh no! And what if my house burns down while I'm not there? Oh no!!
Either you don't understand or you're just trolling.
@@SVJoe Yeah, you're not making any sense. Good luck with life.
This is why I am a libertarian and not a conservative. Both the left and right want to define "reasonable" but to me it is never reasonable to take something from another against their will.
This young guy got it!!
It's a mandated payment often allocated for services. You don't get something else when something is confiscated from you, and the object can be often returned when certain requirements for the return of the same is satisfied.
One could argue that we could have a minimalist government, that instead of taxes, actually provided purchasable services which then could contribute to it's funding. Perhaps get rid of the private banks and give the government the sole right to establish loans. Just an idea.
Unfortunately, what funds your local services, is property taxes, not income taxes.
Taxes without representation is confiscation of wealth.
Taxation through consent of the people is not a confiscation of wealth.
Taxes were initially started to fund the war only. They were never meant to be permanent.
That guy doesn't want to learn. He wants to make you agree by force.
Confiscating Private property and paying taxes , are to fund government services , two different things
Roads...military...parks....government...resource management, elementary schools
That young man needs the police,,it starts out with traffic enforcement,,and private ownership of things and protections
Taxes to fund first responders as well as other services, could be collected on a volunteer basis. Not taxation but rather donation. If congress can’t sell the American people in legislation, it gets no funding.
I mean, most of the services we have are privatized already. Government agents aren’t out there building roads. They are just hiring contractors with our money. We’re basically just paying for someone to middle manage our money.
If you want a government to administer laws, then you pay for those services through taxes. This is not the confiscation of property: you get something in exchange for a fee. However, taking of one person's property to give to another person is an unlawful taking and, hence, a confiscation.
This student has a valid point; a lot of us on the right call taxation theft, and it is. Why not fund the govt by donation?; and tariffs, as I believe it used to be.
You’re getting services in return for taxes. The money isn’t being outright stolen.