Henri-(EE) | Theists Are Happier, So It's Better To Be Religious | The Atheist Experience 26.34
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2022
- The Atheist Experience 26.34 for August 21, 2022 with JMike and Forrest Valkai.
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When you realize that the statement "theists are happier" is equivalent to "ignorance is bliss", it makes perfect sense.
I would totally agree with that. Yes.
Well said
Bravo
I was just thinking this when I saw the video's title, and that's what "theists are happier" really boils down to. Especially when their religions actively discourage critical thinking and portray blind obedience as a virtue.
It's just that ignorance as bliss is a little harder to grasp.
_The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one._ - George Bernard Shaw
Beat me to it by an hour.
Beat me to it by a year.
Forrest: "They were slaughtering children because their religion told them to.... Maybe they were happy though"
Forrest is boss.
I caught that too. But hey, as long as they're happy while the genocide happens, it must be justified, I say sarcastically.
Babies love being slaughtered!
Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalms 137:9)
One of those few verses in the Bible that is simple to understand.
@@cypherpunk12 just saying but for a fool or for the one who is just. And will listen to wise instruction instead of making a frustration of the missing. That's similar to simple truth.
@@jamesmichael2717 I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here. I am not sure of its relation to my comment. Can you try and phrase it differently, or explain it differently?
Sweden, Norway & Denmark are 3 of the 5 happiest countries in the world. They’re also 3 of the 5 countries with the highest atheist population.
‘Nuff said..
But US leads the world in percentage of people who make sweeping claims without any evidence besides their gut feeling them that the claims sound right.
Just what I was thinking. When you live in a safe place with a government who actually take care of you if the shit hits your fan, religion becomes a unneccessary thing in life. Religion is something for those who have uncertainties in their lifes.
@@sidekickbob7227 I agree with everything you said except the last sentence. Religion was created to control the masses. period. It evolved into a grift which is it's current state today. Therapists for for those who have uncertainties in their lives. Religion is an antiquated, useless institution that currently preaches hate and exclusion. It spreads lies to people and basically tells them that they shouldn't "sin" but even if they did all they have to do is ask for forgiveness and they're good to go. Religion gives people a free pass to be assholes and feel fine about it.
@@imbwildrd3693 I do not disagree with your statement. But I do still think religion work as a sort of releive for people struggeling. Maybe it's easier to go through a hard life if you believe in those "lies" about a better afterlife? It could be that they are easy prey for those religions, targeting such places with "help" and their word of god, just for a little fee in return? I don't know. But I do see the coincidence of high grade of sosial security and low grade of active theism. And I also feel safer in places with low religious tension/ attention.
Australia would be close to this list and largely secular
Religions also encourage people to assess themselves as "happier" when in reality they may be in a state of depression
I know multiple people who have regular mental health breakdowns are religous and make an effort to appear happier and more fulfilled in public for religous reasons.
I was going to comment the same thing.
How/why/in what ways?
@@lancetschirhart7676
I'll put it simply by copy pasting the abstract of a recent multilevel analysis, a scientific study I'll link to in some way in a separate reply incase YT algorithms don't like there being link data in the reply.
Here you go:
" _Drawing on social norms theories, we suggest that religiosity substantially increases subjective well-being if it is considered normative in a certain national context. In Study 1, we test this hypothesis using an indicator of a country's social norm of religiosity that includes both the national level of religiosity and the social desirability of religion. The results of a multilevel regression analysis suggest that religious individuals are on average happier and more satisfied with life than non-religious individuals. This effect is stronger in religious countries with dominant negative attitudes towards non-believers. In Study 2, we further examine whether the differences in social recognition of religious and non-religious individuals in countries where religiosity is normative account for this finding. The results of a moderated mediation analysis indicate that in religious countries, religious people report being treated with more respect, which partially explains their higher levels of happiness and life satisfaction_ ."
And some religions tell people to assess themselves as "possessed" when in reality they may be in a state of depression.
As a smoker I convinced myself cigarettes helped me handle stress. After I quit I realized how much time, money and social interaction was wasted. This analog fits religion.
I do miss part of the social interaction, though.
But not wasting time, money and my health is definitely an upside :D
But smoking is cool. 😎. Religion...not so much
@@JohnDoe-zi5vf Turning your lungs into useless shriveled up tar pits is most certainly not cool.
@@JohnDoe-zi5vf
Nope, nope nope.
Don't shame people who smoke but, that's a horrible joke. Cigarettes trapped several of my coworkers in poverty.
Not really
Lol he literally said “then it makes more sense to believe in nonsense”
That’s fun lol
Hahaha Yes! he did it. Oh gosh
If it makes you happy, puts you in a community of that supports you, gaslights you you that are better than the others, and pushes family...
Sure sounds like it could evolutionary advantage.
Ignorance is bliss. Very interesting point. This guy was very solid.
Some of the happiest countries in the world are also amongst the countries with the least religious populations.
Religion doesn't bring happiness, it brings ignorance.
Shaw: The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
~
This caller has the energy of someone who's just heard Pascal's Wager for the first time and is *very* impressed.
I don't know how believing in a bunch of lies makes you happier.
Ignorance is bliss.
you mean I'm NOT the handsomest? now I'm sad, and that's sad 😔
@@festerreloaded2690 Wow. Over 1000 comments on this channel, and I guarantee every single one of them has been low iq gibberish like this one. I'm sure you've had circles talked around you here hundreds of times, but you're just not smart or self aware enough to realise it.
You are hilarious.
@@festerreloaded2690 what lies?
@@festerreloaded2690 what part of "I don't believe that gods exist" is a lie?
Wow! The things people find themselves saying in defense of religion ...
It's like that scene in Game of Thrones where the kingslayer says, "The things we do for love," right before he pushes an 8 year old boy out a tower window.
Something along that line went through the heads of mothers who killed their children "because this way they get to heaven before they start to sin". Literal quote from some of them.
Mate, at least Jamie Lannister was honest. Henri is ingenuine, he's probably racist as well because he's trying very hard to justify white people terrorizing the world for a few centuries.
@Technic I'm game. What's your best evidence that Jesus is god?
@@StannisHarlock Just so you know, he spammed this comment a lot, so i would not be surprised if there is no response.
@@Julian0101 Oh, thanks. His post did seem a bit too ridiculous to be taken seriously.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
-George Bernard Shaw
Islam gave me a lot of unnecessary stress: fear of the jinns, scared of being punished for eating with your left hand, sleeping on your stomach (yes, Allah hates it, lol). Also, lack of sleep because of voluntary night prayers to gain brownie points from a deity, wasting your money to go to Saudi Arabia for pilgrimage, etc etc 😂
Punished for eating with your left hand?🤨🧐What? Really? Is that an actual thing in Islam? I've never heard of it so I'm curious.😅Also, why can't you sleep on your stomach?
Henri - some of us simply can't be made to believe nonsense just because it might make us feel better.
I can only speak for myself but the best thing I ever did for mental health was abandon religion. I'm happier, can think more clearly and rationally and am generally a far better person than I ever was as a Christian. As a believer, I was constantly angry, felt guilt and shame, was frustrated and felt that I was never good enough because I was always questioning and didn't think I had enough faith. My only regret is not doing it years ago.
Same.
Agreed
i was brought up roman catholic but thankfully my parents were not overly religion crazy as many out there are these days.
i did the usual sunday school stuff and had my communion and confirmation and such and once i turned 18 my parents let me decide if i want to continue going to church and all that. but as i never really believed any of the religious things i was told i pretty much washed my hands of the whole thing and used my time to do what needed doing in my life and i did help a lot of friends and family over the years. and i find helping friends and family made me happier than believing in some fantasy world religion...
@Technic if you're a catholic, you're ok with child raping and genocide. Go ahead and try to debunk me.
@Technic prove you wrong about what? your post does not specify
Forrest has the best way of explaining things for anyone to understand. I LOVE him sooo much! Great conversation guys!
Indeed
Check for the term "Confirmation bias;" Forrest should be careful with that.
@@lucysonata1009 Why?
@@freddan6fly Kidding? As if he is hiding it. It's called "Atheist experience."
@@lucysonata1009 Kidding? As if he is hiding it. It's called "Atheist experience." - so? You really think that people that accept science and reality have a confirmation bias? You can't just throw out an accusation without showing some evidence. Show your evidence.
For the first 31 years of my life I was miserable as a theist. I had to completely kill what made me me, dying to the flesh to become a new person in christ was a real thing. Now that I am an athiest, and can finally accept myself as good, and right and deaserving of life, so so much happier.
I'm more happy as an Atheist then I ever was as a theist.
Why im curious? Im a former serious believer and just spiritual now
@@kelseykjarsgaard5774 I'm happier now as an atheist too. I was raised Catholic so I had major problems w the church. The sexism, the homo/transphobia (I'm a bi/pansexual female), their stance on birth control & bodily automony etc. I know that doesn't apply to ALL religions, but most Abrahamic religions for sure.
Also I found the whole 'forgiveness' thing hypocritical. Like I can lead a good life and go to Hell for not believing, but a r@pist or murderer can have a death bed conversion and all is forgiven?
I also no longer have to defend all he horrible things, the slavery, genocide etc.
But mostly I just don't believe it. I see no reason too. Why should I fake it? And it makes me a better person. I'm more empathic & kind. I don't get to couch my bigotries so I treat everyone equal. Also I don't get a redo in Heaven, so I focus on my relationships & actions now. And I don't have to fake belief.
I'm a happier & more honest person. I also think I'm much more rational & skeptical. So my life just makes more sense. Religious people already believe unrational things so they are more likely to fall for conspiracy theories and get conned by pyramid schemes etc.
But my question for you is- what is 'spirtual'? I mean no offense but what does that even mean?
@@kelseykjarsgaard5774 What does that mean? Being spiritual? That makes no sense to me.
Even Einstein called religious people insane and childish
That's an appeal to authority tho
@@mxflint1715 Einstein was brought up in the convo so I thought I'd add to the subject
Interesting as when I was religious I was an alcoholic suicidal mess and I can directly tie that to my faith, I don't actually think it is better to fear the rain just because it may flood.
I hope you are better now my king.
@@thirtyseconds2589 much. I can be unashamedly gay now, so that is fun.
I love Forrest for his honesty and overall beautiful person
He's the new messiah let's all adore him (its irony for those who don't read it, what I mean is NOT & NOT)
For the caller: It's downright incorrect to say that the colonizers had the advantage because of religion. They had advantage because of the geography. Most animals in the American continent are pretty crap to domesticate back then. Whereas in the other half of the world, domesticated animals were around for thousands of years and thus, the people there had access to cattle, had easier time doing agriculture, etc., getting more manpower per settlement, having cities, therefore had more resources to craft weapons, etc. Switch it around and the "indigenous" people would probably be the ones conquering through Europe.
Right, and the caller also doesn't seem to realize that indigenous people were also religious/spiritual. Since both sides were religious, then how can anyone claim that religion itself was the advantage? What a terrible argument.
Actually it wasn't as much the guns as the germs that helped the Europeans coming across the pond.
Around 90% of the people in the Americas were wiped out in the decade after Columbus from the small pox he brought with him.
Source
1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus
Charles C. Mann
@@madshorn5826 Totally. And it's the same thing that brought it: domesticated animals. However you slice it, it's still because of them and Europeans won because of geography.
This conversation doesn't make any sense to me. The most secular countries on the planet have the highest quality of life standard. Secularism also gives more individual freedoms compared to theocratic countries.
What an answer. Well done Forrest.
It's easy to be happy if you ignore all the injustice, cruelty and suffering in the world.
"More 5 year olds in the US believe in santa than don't, therefore there must be an evolutionary advantage in believing in santa"
I think the data contradicts this, because I was under the impression that stats have shown secular countries to be generally happier than religious countries.
People on weed/shrooms/drugs are happier that sobers. So, according to this guy...
I been more happier when I became a atheist it was like I got a giant boulder off my shoulder and made me care about this world a lot more also.
It's funny that Estonia has a fairly low percentage of religious people AND they rate pretty high on the happiness scale. US on the other hand have pretty high religion but is lower on the happiness ranking.
Not just Estonia, there's a high correlation between a lot of the least religious countries and the greatest reported happiness and quality of life (And a strong negative correlation in the opposite direction)
@@chibbersthesquirrel6189 I just mentioned Estonia because Henri is supposedly from there.
The Eurobarometer Poll 2010 found that 18% of the Estonian population responded that "they believe there is a God", 50% responded that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force" and 29% responded that "they don't believe there is any sort of spirit, God or life force".
Possibly because they didn't grow up religious.
His argument is so stupid, just cause they seem happier, that is the way to go? Not at all, it's fake happiness. If you deal with reality you will be more set to deal with problems when they occur. I think everyone with a sane mind would rather be depressed from time to time and deal with in a good way and actually live in reality, than to believe in something invisible to help out. His argument falls off on its own. Easily debunked.
JMIKE looking move like Rob Zombie everyday.
OR... Rob Zombie is looking more like JMike every day.
I am so much happier since I quit believing in magic.
😂👍
@Rebel Son Please try to start using your mind, instead of regurgitating what your pastor told you. It sounds so dumb. It’s also willfully ignorant. You’re better than that, Rebel Son.
@Rebel Son You called the show once and spoke with Matt and were laughed off the show. Maybe you should call again and get laughed off the show again.
I felt a profound sense of peace and relief when I finally left religion in the rear view mirror.
@Rebel Son There are still ppl about who disagree with evolution? Wow.
I couldn’t care less about whether it makes people happy.
I want to know if it’s true. Period.
Ignorance is bliss. A phrase coined after theists who are happy by not understanding the world.
It may be happiness for them but for the rest of is its a pain in the ass to deal with such people.
@Rebel Son How the hell does that follow???
@@Z4r4sz rebel son called the atheist experience and talked with Matt and I think he was banned. Probably best to leave that insane religidiot alone and don’t help carry his baggage. Edit: I believe I’m mistaken, and the caller’s name was holy rebel. Probably a cookie-cutter facsimile. Thankfully, I’ve already forgiven myself for my mistake.
@Rebel Son Think. Really think about what you just said, man🤦♂️
@@jackhartford521 You know which episode it was?
@@Z4r4sz I don’t :( I know Matt was one of the hosts on the show, that helps a little bit. But definitely the caller‘s name was rebel son. Edit: I believe I’m mistaken and the caller‘s name was holy rebel.
Forrest has a fantastic way of explaining his points.
What a great example of how muddled a theists mind can be. It would have been interesting to know if he though slavery was an evolutionary advantage.
Utter bollocks.
My life improved BIG TIME once I was convinced that all religion is nonsense.
However, dealing with religious people is a source of stress.
It's interesting that secular societies seem to have lower crime rates than those where some form of religion is dominant.
I dispute that religious belief has 'evolved' benefits or evolutionary advantage. There may well be a cultural advantage in going along with the local belief system. When in Rome, do as the Romans Do! That is not an evolutionary trait, it's purely a social one.
.
Forrest voiced it. Being an atheist in a religious society is likely to be very stressful. Remove the 'pressure to believe' and everyones life would be better.
Things that make me feel good, happy & relaxed (not a complete list):
My dog
Archery
SCUBA
A good film
Just being out in nature
ETC.
Np god involved in any of that.
Good comments from Forrest.
Yes for some people, de converting from religion provides psychological relief.
For other people, the fairy tale of religion is a psychological benefit without the costs you experienced.
You can’t dismiss the whole question because religious belief caused harm in your personal experience.
We don’t have a good way of measuring how often it goes one way vs the other. It depends on religious culture and individuals.
well, there is one big elephant, and that is mortality. most people don't want to die. without religion, you can't avoid it.
other than that, real economic factors are very important for issues like happiness.
_I dispute that religious belief has 'evolved' benefits or evolutionary advantage. There may well be a cultural advantage in going along with the local belief system. When in Rome, do as the Romans Do! That is not an evolutionary trait, it's purely a social one_
The ubiquitous tendency to behave socially in certain ways is evolutionary. Other evolutionary social include not considering your nuclear family to be your enemies by default, and not seeking isolation whenever possible.
@@lancetschirhart7676
The question is whether the religious belief itself provides benefits.
If you live in a cult town, it’s in your best interest socially to join the cult.
But is the cult belief helping you?
it’s clearly not an accident that we make up gods. Religion is ubiquitous.
So is our creating gods just a curious side effect of our tendency to personify everything, or does the religion itself provide emotional benefits?
I’d argue that it does. But can you get the same benefits without believing fairy tales?
I’d argue you can get most of them.
@@darkstar4494 I think so too
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is, than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
“Knowledge is preferable to Ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard Truth, than a reassuring Fable.” - Carl Sagan
I'm far happier now than I ever was with religion. One thing religion did, which I hated the most, was waste my time and this affected my life and mental well being in general.
Stopped praying, got a degree and I have actual peace.
This man is crazy. He starts with "belief helps us" to "war is good because the winners are better off"
Henry could take the word 'Religion' out of 90% of his arguments and replace it with 'societal conformity' and his arguments would be more valid.
Ignorance is bliss and the ignorant are blissfully unaware.
Does "Henri" realize that ALL babies are born atheist? Only after they begin to understand language, do the become religious. After the are INDOCTRINATED are they considered religious.
Sorry, Henri's argument is very weak.
Thank you, gentlemen, good discussion.
@@blarglemantheskeptic No it doesn’t though.
Atheism is the position of not being convinced a god exists.
For this to be a thing - there needs to be a possibility that the individual could actually understand the concept of a gif in the first place.
No matter how long you spoke to a rock, tree, dog etc, there would never be any possibility of them even understanding the Concept of a god.
Perhaps we atheists aren’t happier overall, but I bet when we see something amazing or cool, our happiness and wonder is WAY higher than a theists. When I learned all that hat to happen for me to be here right now, I was shocked at all that could have gone but didn’t and I was awestruck at my luck. A theist would look at that and simply say, “god did it” and be on their way.
I appreciate more being an atheist.
"Theists are happier"
Hm, strange then that many many many theists aren't happy or happier than many other atheists...
Also, I am unhappy with my life. But I would be even more depressed if I'd believe in a God, because that would mean that he is fine with me having severe depression to the point that I regularly think about ending my miserable life.
Hang in there champ
@@quintonsm2616 Luckily I have some perspective now, I work in a bicycle repair shop and I really like it there, but that could change easily, when my brain decides to put me in severe depression mode again.
Well, in any case, like I said, belief in BS wouldnt help me xD
The biblical wars on the bible were largely about religion. Plus most wars since had a religious component as well. Genocide against the Native Americans was fueled by religion as "they were heathens".
Same with the Shoah! And Slavery.
😏 "The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life." ~ George Bernard Shaw, (Androcles and the Lion)
This is a 'groundhog day' caller....his conversation cycles around and repeats itself throughout the call.
Children are typically happier than adults. Why? Because when you move away from, “mommy and/or daddy will provide…” and start to fend for yourself, the weight of “adulting” bears down upon you. As an atheist, I wish I could delude myself into believing that regardless of how badly I screw up, if I throw a prayer to invisible daddy that he will take care of me.
Genetically Modified Skeptic was recently noting that, looking at overall happiness, religious countries do far worse, which is data I've come across before, "The 2018 UN World Happiness Report stated most atheistic (and socially well off) countries are the happiest, while religious countries are poor and unhappy. Mar 20, 2018."
So, I'd question his data here, and certainly disagree with his conclusions. I mean, a lobotomy was thought to be a great idea too, but it's not a brilliant solution.
I'd much rather face and solve problems than take the Jesus needle and ignore the horrors of the world, much of it as a result of religion.
Very true. I live in Norway and we are topping that statistics along with a bunch of other nations close by that have very little religion. A lot of elements into the mix of course, but go figure.
@@L.D.1 Very true. All the Scandinavian countries are consistently rated the happiest in the world.
Low religiosity and social democracy is the way to go!!
@@L.D.1 I just looked up the happiest countries in the world & countries with the highest atheist populations & they match up pretty well. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
@@luv2fly745 Right on, man! I'm glad I live here. In terms of music and entertainment culture it kinda sucks sometimes, but that's me.
@@L.D.1 Well nothing's ever perfect.
One of my classmates in flight school was from Norway. One of the nicest people I've ever met. He and I ended up flying for the same major airline in the USA years later.
Oh, and I'm a girl 😉
This is a really tough one, I would say "I am happier now as an atheist than I was as a Christian" but things are also very different now. As a Christian I was young I had not travelled, I had no money and I did not have my own children and wife. These things I now have, I have a fantastic wife and daughter and a great job. But let's say I agree with the Christians and say that it's possible that "if I still belived in God, I would be happier." It's more important to me what is true, and not just what makes me happy. I could pretend all the things that make me sad do not exist, I could pretend no children are dying of cancer and no one in Earth is starving, if I could actually convince myself of this I would be happier, but sometimes the truth is sad. That's the thing about the truth, it is not always what you want it to be.
Im Literally more happier when im Atheist than i was a Theist......
You don't need to be religious to be happy? Doing yoga, meditation etc?
Its irrelevant to say that....
In my case back when I used to be deceived, my fear of hell kept me in a constant state of fear,guilt, and a feeling of never being good enough.
May reason, logic, and common sense one day guide humanity in it's future endeavors.
My deep and lifelong fear of hell, and my near-equal fear of the eternity of heaven, will never go away, even after they have long stopped being rational.
It’s funny how often I hear that as an atheist I’m miserable. Like that’s the only argument they have. When I don’t respond to the threat of hell.
Religious programming is responsible for 80 percent of my mental health issues.
I would argue that in predominantly religious countries, you'll likely be 'happier' conforming to the religion of your country because you will have more opportunities to find communities based on that religion. However, countries that are less religious as a whole are reportedly happier than countries that are more religious. In the US it's easy to find community going to church and it might be much harder to find that kind of community outside of church. That has nothing to do with 'god' or 'religion', it has to do with PEOPLE. If the US didn't have so many churches and religious communities, we'd likely have more secular communities without the religious baggage attached to it. So I'd argue it's WORSE that we are so religious.
Before I watch the video No religion does not improve mental health. Financial security, Household environment, Social groups that promote love, kindness and understanding of differences are all things that lead to better mental health. They are also things that can be accomplished without Religion at all.
I always watch this on Monday, while I'm driving at work. I'm anticipating a good show, I like both these guys...👍😉
All statistical surveys of the last decades within the relevant fields, economics, sociology, education, health etc., prove the exact opposite of the claim of the "happier theist".
The less religious, the better the life of the people.
Great call. Sadly I don't think Henri learned anything, but was very civilized.
Also, Wars are fought over resources, yet religion can create artificial divisions that reduce the resources of each community, who will be more motivated to fight over those resources because religion has divided them.
with how obsessed theists are with redefining words i have a big hunch that when henri says "happy" what he actually means is "religious".
I agree with the point. However, a cow moving into the slaughterhouse doesn't panic because it doesn't know the reality of the situation. As a COW, knowing what building is where they'll kill me is advantageous, not my mental state. Advocating for a calmer existence opposed to an existence dealing with reality is just absurd imo. As someone who operates within reality I want every other agent within reality to engage with our common plane of existence, not their imagination.
Research shows that Buddhists are the happiest. Even though the Buddha teaches that there is no God, all phenomena are impermanent and our life is like a candle in the open. I think they are happier because the Buddha encourages them to seek the truth, never persuades them to believe in his words just to come to the truth on their own.
So, then why is it that the countries with the highest self reported happiness tend to be the ones that are least religious?
So, then why is it that every atheist I see on youtube or commenting on youtube says they are much happier now they've recovered from religion?
I think what's actually in that research is that people who are non-religious in a heavily religious country are less happy, such as the USA, because of how they're treated, because they're an oppressed minority. NOT because they actually miss out on religion.
Wow, this guy clearly has no clue how evolution works. WHAT A CULTURE TEACHES IS NOT PART OF YOUR GENES, buddy. IF your claims were true, it MIGHT be seen as a CULTURAL advantage to be religious. But even so (and I call bullshit on it, but let's pretend) that's what is known as a local maximum, and would in no way imply it's the best maximum. Because it seems obvious to me that there's much more cultural advantage in dealing with reality and allowing everyone to participate rather than just the in group. And just as obviously you're not going to get there by pointing at the people you're oppressing and saying they don't seem happy.
You can do community, meditation and yoga without being religious Henri... respect for others, mindfulness and physical exercise have nothing to do with religion specifically. I would say especially respect doesn't. Hence the unhappy atheists in theistic countries...
Henri, you keep saying how widely spread religion is shows it's beneficial. This is utter nonsense. This couldn't be further for the truth. For one thing, something being far spread does in no way indicate it's beneficial, it only indicates it's been able to spread far. Religions are wide spread because they've been forced onto others with huge amounts of violence and manipulation. Being oppressed by a religion, murdered when you dare go against it, is NOT an indication that it's good for you. It's an indication of the opposite. It's only been fairly recently that people get the chance to drop religion without instant and completely debilitating ramifications, and guess what? Everywhere you can actually do this, more and more people are dropping religion. The fact that religion loses ground as soon as it's less able to oppress people shows it's not a benefit, it's a disease that we're finally starting to recover from as a race. And the countries where they were able to drop it en mass more than a generation ago are exactly the countries that report higher happiness... it's almost like if your culture doesn't force it on you, and your parents don't either, then it's safe to not be relgious and then you're actually happier...
Glad Forrest was on the show for this claim - as one of the most positive atheist personalities - he was a stellar representative to argue against this garbage.
Scandinavian countries consistently report the highest levels of happiness compared with other countries and their populations aren't especially religious. The US population is far more religious and yet reports lower levels of happiness. It's not religion that makes you happy. Religion is often responsible for making you unhappy because it has to create an "other" for you to hate in order to keep itself relevant.
The mad, the drunk, and the high often claim greater happiness than the sane and the sober. But the later tend to not die from walking into traffic as much.
Forrest made THE most important point by far, correlation is not causation, and the callers assertion that there is scientific consensus that religion is good for mental health needs to be well sourced because having a look I couldn't find anything that could be described as consensus.
The analogy was correct. Two sheep are going to slaughter. One believes he will suffer agonising pain and cease to exist. The other thinks he's going to sheep heaven. Who's "happier"?
If anything, I would say developing a brain that is less gullible and susceptible to outside influence would be an actual evolutionary advantage.
I don't know why, but the cat's face being in the in the thumbnail just makes it so funny.
My face is always like that, damn...
The main thing is religion tends to provide community which we know is a powerful evolutionary driver. That is where the "happier" comes from.
I get all the serotonin I need from dubstep. I dont need religion.
"a comfortable lie" makes some people feel somewhat better than "an uncomfortable truth" - Film at 11.
His argument boils down to "Ignorance is bliss so let's all be ignorant." Lol nah.
Another Red Herring to avoid facing the fact that religion has been failing for thousands of years.🙈
"Why are you miserable"
Forrest is literally the happiest person on youtube
Apparently, ignorance IS bliss....
Ignoance is bliss. Don't worry, be happy. Don't think, just go with the flow.
Basically, this call:
Forrest: "Religion has caused harm and here are many examples."
Caller: "I don't care, I'm still right."
The guest did not say where his data comes from. I suspect it's specific to the US.
World wide, those who report as the happiest live in the least religious societies. This directly contradicts the guest's point.
In the US, becoming an atheists also comes with a lot of social stigma. That will make you less happy, but that is specific to US culture.
In my view it's a stupid point either way. The guest just wants to swallow the blue pill and enjoy blissful ignorance. Even if he was right, which he is not, I'd still prefer the red pill.
You're absolutely right! All statistical surveys of the last decades prove the exact opposite of the claim of the "happier theist". Health, Education, pregnant minors, life expectancy, old-age poverty etc.; less religious = better life
I guess they haven't taken a look at happiness rating of countries: majority-atheist Scandinavian countries are always some of the most happy.
There's a reason we say "ignorance is bliss". It's our fundamental fear of the unknown that is being covered up by a story. I absolutely respect peoples right to hold this belief if it makes them feel good. More power to yah. But don't peddle it as TRUTH. Be honest, and say "I don't know, but find comfort in this story", that's fine. Accept the fact that you feel more comfortable NOT knowing, and let the people who DO want to know keep searching.
I think there is something to the matter that religion gives many people a sense of identity and community which can be lost or weakened when someone leaves a religious group. There have been several atheist youtubers who have stressed the need for stronger atheist/ uncertain communities amd to fight the toxicity in some of those groups
I grew up a Christian, and now an atheist. I’m SO much happier now.
Would love to talk with you guys on my deconversion
What torment must people have felt (even a few hundred years ago), facing Spanish Inquisition, type existence. Executed, burned tortured as heretics if they did not believe. Then any person facing death and if in a state of sin going to hell and burning for all eternity. Wow, Even as an RC kid in the late 1950s, that is what I was led to expect. Was terrified of dying in sin if I 'missed mass' . My kids/g/kids have avoided these evil doctrines and have grown up much saner and happier and will die without terror.
ever since i left religion, it allowed me to be more open to my own thoughts. i get to ask myself the hard questions, helped me decide for myself, and granted me the opportunity to look and evaluate myself fairly so as to find ways to improve and be a better person. religion does not do this because it distracts you to instead pray or read the bible whenever you have these questions and imo discourages you to explore or find deeper thoughts because they want you to stay dependent on the religion, kinda like a drug of some sorts.
I don't think that I can undo knowledge so to be a believer.
I think that we need proof for religiosity having an effect on your survival.
Two rebuttals that I think were overlooked
1.
If you supplied people with heroin free-of-charge for life, they might feel happier, but it's not the right thing to do.
2.
We don't know what all the currently religious people would say about happiness if they became atheists tomorrow. They might well just be happy people who just accept their state of affairs (as Forrest said, correlation is not causation)
I am thoroughly at peace with no dogmatic rules and requirements to deal with. How could I possibly be any happier than living according to my own free determination?
Also stress sometimes helps us make better decisions
Amazing job Forrest!!
I'm a strong Atheist and I'm super happy because I live my life to the fullest everyday and I love it. This goes both ways like I can say Atheist are happier so it's better to not be religious. The way I see it is, Christians fake their happiness and pretend like everything is well since they are delusional and can't accept reality. I accept reality and even though I know this is the only time I'll exist that when I die, I will have no regrets because I did not waste my time on anything I did not enjoy or love to do. 😀💯
This! And I will add that the smile they show like you said is just a facade but when they are at home the mask falls off and Reality is knocking on the door
The man from Estonia doesn't understand that religion doesn't make everyone happy....
Ignorance is bliss. That's why.