It's important to realize the SNP is made up of many different factions who all want independence for their own reasons. The SNP won't last very long in a post independent Scotland, and will inevitably split.
This still doesn’t answer the question of whether independence is dead. The answer is yes and you just don’t want to admit it. If independence was so popular in Scotland, why did the Independence campaign lose in 2014? Also, if independence is so popular amongst the people, surely Scots would stick with the SNP no matter what, as a bandwagon for independence. The fact of the matter is, not all Scots that vote SNP is want independence. For many, the SNP became the ‘Scottish interest party’ rather than strictly the ‘independence party’ - Sturgeon herself admitted all this in 2019. So my point here is that it isn’t clear independence was ever a massively popular idea amongst Scottish voters. The decline of the SNP is yet more evidence of this.
That's ok. The political parties are basically 3 Unionist and 2 Independence. After Independence they will morph into whatever the country votes for. Left, centre left, centre right or very unlikely right. What Scotland won't have, is this constant abuse from Unionist parties on every single policy good or bad, because their job is to protect this vile UK union and sow dissent.
Seems very similar to what has happened here in Canada with Quebec. After decades of separatist government and two failed referendums, Quebec eventually just stopped re-electing the PQ and switched their support to the CAQ, which is autonomist but not separatist. The separatist movement isn't completely dead, around a third of Quebecers would still vote for independence, but the situation has come to a kind of begrudging standstill since 1995 and doesn't look like it's going to change radically anytime soon.
Sounds nothing like Scotlands situation, Scotland is the oldest country on these isles, existed long before any union with England. Prior last referendum independence was consistently polling below 30%, ten years on its polling consistently around 50% and has been for years now, the union is held up by the older voters, we know this, it’s just a waiting game, these generations of older people grew up in a time where they had three channels pumping our British propaganda 24/7, those days are long gone, the youth don’t buy into it over their European identity.
Yeah but didn’t Quebec get like 3 gos at a referendum? We’ve only had one. If I remember right didn’t Quebec get up to about 49% yes in the third and final one? And to me that goes to show that allowing them actually depresses the Yes vote - but I could be way off the mark if they only had one vote in 1995.
Guess the difference is that Quebec has never been a country in its own right. Scotland is one of the oldest countries in the world and is in a union with 3 other countries
@@New-ye2fl Not every independent voter wants to leave the UK only to be subsumed by the EU. A lot of independence voters want to be completely independent from both the UK and Europe
@@shivanshbisht9439 Every Conservative is a gift for the SNP. We never vote for them and yet we are ruled by them. It's the definition of tax without representation. America rebelled on that basis as we should too. Not to mention the centuries of Abuse by the English. Genocidal cunts. Luv and Peace.
Scotland vote against independence in 2014. People went to vote under the threat of being out of the European Union if they voted to abandon United Kingdom. Two years later, the Brexit referendum was held. Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain in the European Union, but the overall result was to leave the EU. I don't know. It seems like an unfair situation for the Scots. They didn't vote for independence due to the threat of being expelled from the EU, and shortly afterward, they end up outside despite voting the opposite.
Nope. They held the vote in 2014 KNOWING that there would be a Brexit vote for the whole of the UK later on. So, they voted to stay in and participate in that vote under the conditions set. Just because they wanted in more doesn't mean it was unfair ! 38% of Scots still voted out, that's not an insignificant amount
If Scotland had secured Scexit in 2014 they'd have achieved leaving the EU at the same time Thus, by default any Scottish nationalist in 2014 was a Brexiteer
Your comment is as dumb as saying if the U.S held a referendum on whether to leave NATO and for example the state of New Jersey alone Votes against leaving NATO but other states vote to leave NATO then the State of New Jersey should now be able to leave the U.S so it can join NATO by itself
People don't watch videos, they read titles. Try it yourself, look up a video longer than five minutes and see how many comments reference anything that's said after the first few minutes.
Probably because TLDR is a company that is made up of reject financial times editors and Sunak suck ups that have to toe closer to fact just because TH-cam has higher standards then Oligarch Toilet Rags.
I’m a federalist although I want to preserve the UK’s unity and existence but at the same time I would prefer that the governance of the UK is reformed and decentralised with each nation and region having its own self governance. This might present a good opportunity to promote that federalist option.
@@Ceiteach.O.Duibhir take them, if Brexit has proven anything its that they're more trouble than they're worth, have fun with the crazy unionists in the republic lmao
@@Ceiteach.O.Duibhir It might surprise you to learn that a great many Northern Irish don't want to be in the Republic xP (edited "millions" to "a great many". The point of the message remains the same)
These videos are so informative for those of us who don't live in the UK and have only a surface level knowledge of subjects like this. Thanks for your work!
I think this is a fairly well done appraisal of the situation and the future of Scottish politics. For years the SNP had higher levels of support among the population than independence. For the first time (basically ever) independence is more popular than the SNP and it looks set to continue that way for a long time. This I think reflects an important maturation of the debate on Scottish independence and as this video remarks, important to no longer lazily view the fate of the SNP and independence as intertwined.
England's political system has totally failed its citizens,its antiquated and almost "medeavil" in its function,where the only choice is between two has beens who are just regurgitating the same or similar polices that have brought nothing but demise to the country. Unless someone is a sadomasochist and dose not do critical thinking and has no ethics and wants to swallow more of the same regurgitated bull shit from third rate politicians,who most them are not even capable of running a tuck shop i would say where well and truly fucked. Its a shame we here in Scotland cant escape this insanity quicker,the sooner we get out of this so called union of "equals" now thats an oxymoron,the better for Scotland.
Voting for MSPs and MPs still make SNP very important. We need to keep a majority in Holyrood. Until we get another referendum, voting SNP reduces the amount of Unionist politicians. Don't be fooled by people separating the two. That is Unionist divisive crap!!
@@graemeglass7566unionist divisive crap, you nats are voting for a border wall and a new currency between your biggest trading partner, the rest of the UK.
An independence supporting friend who lives in Fife but happens to be English sent me this comment on Scotland's struggle for self determination... I subscribe to Quora and an Irish citizen quoted this which was buried in a UK government spokesperson's remarks. I congratulated him on pinpointing the truth of why WM wants to keep Scotland: "If Scotland does become independent, the rump of the UK(r-UK) will lose most of its fishing waters and Exclusive Economic Zone(EEZ), nearly all its oil and gas reserves, close to a third of its land area, massive renewable energy resources, a huge part of its freshwater reserves, and a parking place for its nuclear weapons and the nuclear submarines which carry them." This is why "No to Section 30", plain and simple. The full might of the Unionist media, politicians, civil servants, MI5 and 77th Brigade work tirelessly to persuade Scots that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to run their own country. Fortunately the younger generations are not that easily fooled. UK Gov commissioned polling in 2021 confirms that the desire for independence has greatly increased in younger voters since 2014. 82% of 18 - 24s would now vote Yes, as would 81% of 25 - 34s and 61% of 35 - 55s. However, over 55s are more in favour of the union with 44% of 55 - 64s supporting Yes and only 27% of over 65s supporting independence. There is clear evidence that Scots are much less likely to become more conservative and/or become unionists as they age… Every year 50K new young voters replace the 50K older voters who have ‘departed’… Tick tock… Demography will get us there!
@@clownofthetimes6727Scotland has 90% of the UK's fresh water resources. In the decades to come, the climate may change in such a way that fresh water becomes increasingly important for England. Some predict that drought will take over much of England by 2030 and many regions of England running dry in 2040.
@@aceman0000099As someone who was never that good with geology and might need the "explain like I'm 5"-level answers, does that mean Scotland has the most fresh-water lakes / snow / rain to refill freshwater etc, and England doesn't have much of that on their own? Isn't England supposed to be very rainy?
@@goranisacson2502 yes, Scotland has its huge lochs which are surprisingly deep. There's more water in Loch Ness than in all the lakes of England put together
@@goranisacson2502England is rainy but pretty flat, really flat in some places. As someone else said, loch Ness has more fees water than the whole of England. Scotland has a further 30000 fresh water lochs England is against independence as it would leave England with a smaller footprint than Scotland and totally dependent on foreign food, water and energy. Mixed with their population density rising the UK credit rating would take a big hit. Simply put, England can't afford to lose Scotland, it's water and energy resources 4 trillion in oil has been pulled from the ground in the last 40 years or so, in the same time the UK government ran up 4 trillion in debt. UK openly admit that oil dropped the economy up through the last recession.
@@Frank-Lee-Speeking Some channels make mistakes on purpose. The purpose being that it gets people to comment so as to correct the mistake, which boosts engagement. Mind you the mistakes have to be relatively minor so people don't just dismiss the channels' content as a whole, but a spelling mistake or slightly off graphic fits in perfectly with that.
I don't often comment on things but I think this video is a tad misguided - SNP don't define the independence movement but are seen as the flagbearers for it right now as it's the largest party. The greens and Alba are also existing and while the SNP does have infighting right now and has sunk in the polls, the independence support has remained quite static around 45-50%. I think to truly understand the independence movement you have to actually live in Scotland and any outside statistics won't really give an insight into our behaviours.
Scottish people aren't stupid and they are lending their support to labour in order to get rid of a near billionaire PM who is leader of a party who only wants to make for it's buddies and lied on daily basis.
I think that’s a fair statement, what I would like to know is how the people of England like me can help build unity with Scotland. England is most definitely going labour soon which historically has been quite strong in Scotland. Perhaps we can come together then and shake things up as a team.
This is a running theme I see with comments on independence from media pundits, it’s never from those actually originating in the country nor do they actually go and ask Scottish people what *they* think. And even then you need to go up and down the country for that; opinions on the borders for instance are often quite different from those further up.
@@MadDoodles There are polls for a reason. Polls that indicate that only a minority want independence. In any case, independence movements seem to be bullying countries into it, or provinces, like New Caledonia getting three referenda on independence. It is such a stupid thing. They got a local parliament, they have legislative power of England and they had a referendum. Separatism is a threat to the fabric of the nation and ought to be suppressed.
The only way a Labour Westminster government will "kill off" (for now) Scottish (or Welsh) independence support is with a move away from FPTP in general elections to stop the UK electing the Tories on a minority of the vote. But while Labour might be a little more amenable to the Scots than the Tories have been, they're still very much going to be focused on England simply due to the relative sizes of the countries - a key point in why people who support independence say that the "union" does not work. So it's quite unlikely that independence will ever be killed off and there will always be a significant proportion of the country in favour of it.
That's not FPTP it's the Parliamentary constituencies. Even if we had PR or AV the Tories would still gain from Parliamentary constituencies, and if you want to get rid of that it's a much harder argument.
There needs to be an investigation of the investigation of the SNP / Sturgeon. The police have been very public with the accusations, but fail to press charges. To me, that looks like a political hit job.
the second after the press attacks the SNP all the charges against them seem to be forgotten about as if some mysterious group of blue and red men pulled some strings
Of course it was a political hit job. It can be nothing else. The level of vitriol directed at the SNP for an apparent shortfall in membership fees of around half a million pounds (their own capital as an entity too, not public funds) is well, well, well out of proportion to any wrongdoing (though there was never any wrongdoing in the first place so the point is kind of moot). Meanwhile, the Tories palm off actual billions to the Michelle Mones of the world and what do we hear about it? "SNP baaaad! >:(", "Independence is deeeead!!!1!"
As a Scottish viewer, I never liked the Independence movement. It just feels like they're putting all of the blame for all of Scotland's wows on England. It's only a half truth, as in reality, they could've done more for Scotland if they focused on today's Scotland, not some far future Independent Scotland.
As an Englishman I like this because after living in Scotland for four years I did feel there is a media problem where those who are intrigued by independence read largely english-hating independence-loving papers that made themselves more hateful like The National. If the news was less polarising I think that could help stop this blame game.
@@Aragornofmoria I Nationalist paper and about 15 Unionist papers. I think polarising is not accurate. An avalanche of independence hate spews every day from all these papers. The National only has a circulation of a few thousand and you will be lucky to finf it in most retail outlets. Prime time TV is also controlled by Unionist biased editors and producers. Get real mate, Independence is solid despite and massive bias in the media
thank you for a video educating non-uk nationals. also, a big like for increasing the time of the video to cover the topic properly. just one thing, you had a typo at 11:37. dormant, not dorment
The independence referendum was, in my opinion, the precursor project to brexit regarding Cambridge Analytica and the power of media in affecting the undecided portion of the voting demographic. With a heavy portion of the "no" campaign funded by Conservatives and their partners, you can actually see a keen, singular thread focused on census manipulation. If you look at the Scottish independence referendum and the "no" campaign's quite aggressive messaging, Scotland would be "cut off," "probably sheared off the EU, which would be disastrous," and "forced to try to find new import/export links, which would destroy our economy." Ultimately it was this slew of messaging that swayed the undecided portion to *juuuust* opt for no. Then, later, these EXACT SAME MESSAGES - IN REVERSE - would be utilised to sway the undecided voters to voting for Brexit. "if we don't cut ties, it'll be disastrous for our autonomy!," "If we don't forget new export routes soon we'll be at the behest of our EU overlords!," and so on. They took literally the exact same argument, convinced the populace of one thing, then within the same half decade, convinced them that the opposite was true... and the majority took that bait. It proved how fickle the deciding segment of the votership is, in the UK, and how with enough money, the outcome can always be decided by those with big purses. Many will disagree they had their vote swayed by calculated media - but as Twain once said, "It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled."
You can argue the exact opposite in relation to people who voted yes to Scottish independence. They did not care about potentially losing access to our largest trading partner (rUK) but they insisted that Britain leaving the EU was economic suicide as the EU were our largest trading partner. To me this highlights that for many independence voters (Scottish/Brexit) their reasons were ideological more than practical and logical.
@stuartsummers1303 that's true - some heart, some head, but I think what this new age of "cash for cookies" has showed proof of is that those *without* premeditated conclusions/votes were swayed quite successfully.
@SaintGerbilUK I'm not saying people are stupid - just that we're easily manipulated. That's not stupidity, if anything that just makes them susceptible/too trusting of new information, which is arguably admirable in some ways. But if you look at the voting intention that was definite yes, definite no, and "undecided" at the start, then the final outcome, it's almost certainly hugely weighted by the undecided crowd in the end.
I remember those scare tactics ,Scots were being told they'd lose access to sterling ,to BBC ,and even MotD ,the English right wing,typically when it came to a "home country" wanting to leave , behaved abysmally ,their attitude to democracy is a pretence.
Only failed because of the torrent of media spin from Unionist papers and media. They are doing their job to sow dissent and division. Yet Indy support remains solid. There has not been one campaign since 2014 on independence. Unionists are dying out replaced by young adults polling 80%+ YES. SNP aren't failing. Weak members and supporters are being swayed by a hostile media.
It's kind of strange for Scotland to want nationalism and devolvement from central power in Westminster and England, while at the same time thinking they will be embraced by, join and submit themselves to the super centralised EU Union state. They are trading one centralised power (which affords them a lot of autonomy) for another even bigger and more restrictive, in the name of independence. Scotland has relied (since 1707) on a number of English backed subsidies, they think the EU, with all of its troubles and shortcomings are going to want to prop up Scotland financially and economically? I don't think so.
Scotland would have more power over itself in the EU than it does in the UK, if it were to join the EU. You can't really judge Scotland economically as Westminster holds almost all the powers related to the economy and finances, HMRC, DWP, foreign affairs, etc. Union has worked both ways. Westminster got 4 trillion in oil money and Scotland got about 8% of that
The silent voters decide everything ! This is why if the SNP want to stay in power they have to start listening to the silent voters, reflecting their concerns and values. Humza Yousaf only appeals to loyal SNP members. If labour win a majority in Scotland it is only because the SNP can’t get their message straight, not that suddenly Scots love Labour again.
i don't think thats true, lots of people (lots of labour voters) like humza more than starmer, from my experience. every single Scottish labour voter I've spoken to has said as much, although I cant see any official polls on it; I imagine it would be difficult to measure.
seems to ignore the very basic fact that the numbers used are wrong. Independence YES voters are currently at 53% and stands at 75% among the younger section of the population (18-45 years old). It is only a matter of time.
Aye, until they realise that independance means having to work, have a clue about your country and give a sh*t. Odd how the kids seem to change their minds after that., but it's ok, they'll have voted in another random with 0 connection to the country to rule it by then.
@@Pizza23333 All the polls are garbage, they're all inherently biased. It's not a secret that younger Scottish folk are more pro independence, and they're not getting less pro-Indy as they age, unlike we were told.
I am just preparing for a very important interview and this video absolutely saved my life, it was comprehensive, extensive, absolutely beautifully structured and understandable and I am so grateful right now! Thank you! :)
The SNP doesnt have Blackford-Sturgeon anymore, and i cant see them being very popular until they can find new leaders who mirror that level of popularity
The presenter doesn't know Scottish politics very well and makes the assumption that the independence of Scotland completely lies with the SNP. It doesn't. The rest of the UK are about to find that out. The people of Scotland are sovereign, even Westminster acknowledges that. We don't need anyone's permission for Scotland to become Independent. We have our own laws (Claim of Right, Declaration of Arbroath, etc) going back hundreds of years that Westminster were trying to airbrush out of history. Salvo, Scottish Liberation Movement, ALBA, ISP, to name a few are the real influential groups. But most importantly, independence will happen in Scotland, not by Westminster. Anyway, the Union is dead. Scotland will inevitably be an independent country again.
You sound almost like the Texan secessionist that doesn't understand that the US Constitution doesn't permit a US state to unilaterally leave the Union. There's not even a recognized legal process or self-determination referendums in US law. The side that has constitutional law and democratic support on its side will ultimately be successful, and it sounds like you've abandoned all legal reasoning. I doubt you even recognize the sovereignty of Westminster. The UK Supreme Court, Prime Minister, and Parliament _must_ have a say in any Scottish referendum and independence recognition. That's a non-negotiable requirement.
Of course there had been, it was a manifesto pledge for the Tories. David Cameron made a statement Jan 23rd 2013 committing to an in-out referendum by 2017@@penguinzilla1995
The next event to affect the Scottish Independence movement (not including the next UK parliament election) will be whether Northern Ireland gets a vote on Irish reunification, and which way that vote goes. It's not a stretch to see Irish reunification being the tipping point that breaks up mainland Britain into three countries; and if this does occur European reintegration also seems likely.
Except that each country would be too small to join the EU. As the EU have said many times. Edit: Some small minded people below seems to think that size is entirely population. Where as I was referring to their economic size and that they would be a net detractor from the EU economy, and while they have many they don't want any more for now at least.
Your assuming there will be ah eu, I ain't joking, the Donald looks like he's going tay win x election, that's tatties or the side, for the eu and nato, time tay look at the bigger picture, iyd rather have ah couple of nuk sub's oot there that even the yanks can't find, insurance policy
No one seems to care what the English think. What if they're tired of all this? What if they are more than willing to give them independence, whether they want it or not?
English people are tired of this because it's an issue that has been resolved not once in 2014, but twice with the crashing of SNP popularity. The only reason Scottish people want independence is because of our economic incompetence atm, which is felt equally in places like Northern England. Fix the economy, and the cries for independence go away or at least get quieter. As an Englishman, I'm tired of Scottish people acting like Independence would be a magic bullet for everything wrong with Scotland, when in reality they would essentially be putting their people through a 2nd Brexit - excluded from the British economy, and having to wait to be allowed into the EU if they were allowed at all. It would hurt everyone involved and solve almost nothing. We Brits are in this shit together, if Scotland splinters off it only makes everything worse for both sides, especially in the short term.
As an Anglo-Welsh person, I deeply regret this news. We have to dump Scotland - preferably now but inevitably later - as it is now a permanent dead albatross around our necks, the stench of the decline of which grows every day.
It speaks volumes that if the people of a country want independence from their bigger neighbour they have to first go hat in hand and ask for permission before they’re allowed to ask their own people.
I voted for independence in 2014 and suspect I will again one day, but for now Independence does not work with rUK outside of the single market and my former allies who continue to insist it does end up resorting to Brexity arguments "We'll get a special deal" "we will trade and do business elsewhere" "it will be solved by tech" etc. etc.
@@user-sc4nh2yq3x- EU member states can leave any time they wish. Scotland is prevented from leaving the UK despite voting into a majority numerous times a party that favours a referendum on the issue.
@@user-sc4nh2yq3x Those predictions are mostly just there for clickbait though i suspect one day its bound to happen that most of the countries in EU will be right wing Trump like parties (surprised it's not happened already), but won't really matter. Every country in EU has a veto on policies, so if something is proposed that you dont like you can stop it, also EU is really just a set of rules for minimum standards, countreis can go beyond those if they like. Despite the Brexit arguments nations in the EU are sovereign, you just agree to a common set of rules which you can exceed if you want. What policies do you think these right-wing politicians would bring in that would affect a left wing sovereign state within the EU?
@@glasgovipsolaradon’t conjoin voting for the SNP with wanting independence. People enjoy a strong Scottish voice in Westminster in the form of the SNP. However most do not want independence - polls/2014. We aren’t forced to stay in the UK, we simply don’t want ti leave.
I mostly agree with your end result but for different means I don't think that that ruk not being in the eu and Scotland needing to rejoin would be that bad, but its bad enough politically, it looks bad enough regardless if it is bad enough, just how it looks could be enough to scupper independence.
@@robadobadingdong7104 - not everyone who votes SNP wants independence granted, however by their own reporting a large percentage of those who vote Labour and LibDem do. The recently leaked private polling by the Tory party, commissioned by Michael Gove, has 80% support for independence among the 18 to 24 year olds and the Ipsos Mori poll of last week put support at 54%. It’s as if we need an actual, official poll - like a referendum to decide. But given the shock the Tories no doubt had looking at their own data it’s perfectly understandable why they refuse to sanction another referendum - they know they’ll lose.
Hard to have an independence referendum with the English supreme court says you cant have one. That's all there is to it. As long as Westminster says no, Scotland remains a prisoner. The SNP are still going strong and will have a majority of seats in Scotland, despite what England centric media hopes and prays for. In the end, a union kept together by 'No you can't have a vote because I say so.' won't be healthy.
Both the head and deputy of the Supreme Court are senior judges in Scottish law. So the fact you can’t even get that right throws everything else you say into reasonable doubt.
It is NOT "dead" Englishman. A devisive and OBNOXIOUS term. Scotland WILL gain its FREEDOM again. Others nations will follow. And THIS will be the BEST thing that could happen to ENGLAND, since the horror of the Tudors, destroying her and her faithful bright heart long ago. I love both nations so much. Sincerely, an American.
please stay the fuck out of other nation's politics until you figure out how your children's schools don't turn into shooting ranges and how you healthcare system is a fucking capitalist dystopia. Although seeing as your an American, I doubt your intelligent enough to do so. - Sincerely, an Indian.
I would like to see the union remain intact, but I would not be opposed to some kind of reform that increases Scottish autonomy, in fact I'd be in favour of it
It is worth noting that the Labour support in Scotland also includes a chunk of pro-independence voters, often shown to be around 25-30%. That is likely to rise as the SNP struggle to maintain their votes. Labour will likely ignore these people and create policy primarily aimed at England, but that element of their support could play into things down the line - such as in the next Scottish elections. The union needs major reform to survive longer-term. It has been a long time since a realistic option has been offered, Labour may get their chance soon to try something new. There is majority support in Scotland for a middle ground between independence and the current model of devolution. Whether that reduces independence support long-term I don't know, it may be a further stepping stone. Continuing to fracture the electorate into Yes/No ultimately doesn't benefit the country, so it needs a resolution. The Westminster government would be advised not to keep saying no to further referendums outright, it would be better to set some conditions in place for any further votes. Be that 60% consistent polling for yes, majority pro-independence MSPs/MPs etc.
Or how about not letting your country's integrity be beholden to probably transient voter-blocs of independence. They had a referendum and sayed no. They wanted a parliament and got it. They have Members of Parliament in Westminster and have their own legal framework. They should stop whining.
@@johnnotrealname8168 Why should people "stop whining"? If people don't want to be part of the UK, who are you to tell people they're whining? It's sounds like you're the whiner here.
@@johnnotrealname8168- dry your eyes. The referendum was a decade ago! People change their minds and vote differently and there’s almost a million new voters on the electoral roll now compared to 2014. 15 year olds then have kids of their own now but no say in their country’s future after having their EU citizenship removed against their will. MP’s representing Scottish constituencies make up less than 10% of seats at Westminster. We could not hope to influence the outcome of any vote there. Our parliament has very limited powers and cannot borrow whereas YOUR parliament has ALL the powers and can borrow on international markets. Why should Scots let parties they neither elect nor can eject set their annual budget? Alternatively, make Edinburgh the U.K. capital, give you lot just 10% of seats in the parliament, send our treasury all your money and we’ll give you back the pocket money WE think you’ll need. You’d be happy with that arrangement would you and, being unable to change it through a referendum, not complain at all?
@glasgovipsolara Dry? You lot are the ones complaining and mismanaging the economy. You already had a referendum. Stop crying and how about trying to elect better people in Scotland.
Something that I have noticed is UK government and supreme court stating that a another referendum would be illegal doesn't go down well with Scots. Taking away the chance to make their own mind up I believe is helping the independence movement.
That's why I fully expect that at some point, Scotland will just hold a referendum unilaterally and say to hell with whether England considers it legal.
@@RedXlV 1: the court of session in Scotland came to the same conclusion as the Supreme Court 2: the head of the Supreme Court is a Scot who previously was a judge in the court of session 3: ask Catalonia how that went
From Germanys point of view, a divorcing of UK is not desireable. Actually the whole continent sowered about Brexit. But better to have a functioning UK in EU community, than splitting Scottland from England, which would make an Scottish EU membership possible like Irland posses. It is astonishing how much scottish - english conflicts and wars had appearded in Brittans history. But better UK remains strong and supports EU as strong member, than continuing all this divorces. The first divorce was the Brexit. And if Scottland and Irland will try to come completely independend from England, the decay of brittish island will continue. Not good for UK and not good for Europe. Europe may be on the way to establish itself as an "fouth Global Superpower". But it can do so only if important nations like UK, Norway and Swizerland join this process. Remarkble is, that England and Scottland is NATO member. Norway is NATO member too. Swizerland is like Irland and Austria not a NATO member. But Swizerland joins the "European Skyshield Initiative" which should establish a coordinated pan european airdefence cooperation.
I'm not sure about "fourth global superpower" as much as "fourth Reich" I'm sure you're happy when the EU does things you like, but when it doesn't you have no way to hold it/them to account.
@@SaintGerbilUK Look on the Red Sea. Currently mainly USA and UK are active. But the challanges in this region will increase. Meaning that a full European activitiy could support the USA, which becomes overburdoned from Ukraine, Near East and Far East theaters. That EU is Germanys Fourth Empire is the point of view from Anti German people. Found heavely in England (but not in Scottland !) and in Poland etc.. Nowadays Germany is the "ill man" of Europe. And the weight of Germany inside EU community shrinks with Germanys own decrease. The strongest continental power today is France. Germany is a self destructive monkey theater. And no longer the pivot power of EU community. So a strong UK as EU member, could form Europe as good as France and former Germany could do.
Ok, I suggest that Vienna becomes your capital. You will only have 10% of seats in parliament. You will send all of your taxes to the Vienna Treasury and a party in government there that you haven’t voted for since 1955 will set your annual budgets with the pocket money they hand back to you. But no borrowing powers, you must balance the books. They have borrowing powers though of course, not you. Further, the government in Vienna, that you did not vote for, will borrow “on your behalf” for things like Trident nuclear missiles, that they will put just 30 miles from your most populace conurbation, things you neither need nor want and they will make you pay for this debt with interest. Vienna will then decide to take you out of the EU against your democratically expressed will and make no provisions for your loses in business and exports. And when you consistently elect a party to your “regional” parliament and the 10% of your seats in their national parliament that wants to remedy this injustice and affront to democracy they will prevent them from voting in a referendum to leave the toxic union I’ve metaphorically put you in. You’ll go on TH-cam, see a video about it and read a very ill-informed post from someone in Scotland that knows nothing of your plight - and what do you do?
@@glasgovipsolaraI cannot understand this statements ! It seems that any historical issues are needed to attac perhaps EU community, Germany or any thing else. Better than such metaphers, which nobody can understand and interpret, would be to give clear understandabel statements. Is your comment attacs against EU, against Germany, against UK / England or what. I even cannot distill the intention and the location of this comment from reading between the lines. Are you scottish an mock against England ? And why vienna is so important ? Is it belonging to the "Wiener Congress" which ordered Europe after Napoleon or sometimes else ? Please explain it in an more educational style to let your audience understand, what you think and what you claim. Are you aginast EU, against UK or what ??
One of the drivers for independence has been the fact that for the past 14 years Scots have had a government in Westminster that they didn’t vote for, one that a majority may have actively detested. That is likely to change this year. Dormant is probably a good description of how the independence issue is likely to remain for the rest of the 20s.
Scots will never have a say in Westminster as long as they elect a party that (even if they win every seat in Scotland) only ever can represent about 3.6% of the UK population.
The leading concern of the Scots having to put up with a govt that an England majority votes for while Scotland only partially votes in favour it of would still stand.
@@ou7shined972It is the issue with a lot of these independence movements. There is the argument from culture and nationalism which I sympathise with although I do not think independence is a justifiable result however there is the dubious one of we just vewy liberal unlike the Tories or insert Centre-Right (If they even are.) party here. It is the same with Catalonia. The culture @~?£ is bull@~?£ as the reaction to a Christian woman who could speak Gàidhlig proves and the latter is meaningless because the socially liberal party gets into power soon. More often than not it is all a scam as the Scottish National Party proves.
I can see that dormancy lasting until the next election when the people of Scotland see how bland and unambitious Starmer has to be to not upset middle Englanders. IMHO that is the moment that independence will be guaranteed, when people realise that Westminster will never change things for the better
@johnnotrealname8168 the issue is democracy. You're either for it or against it. It's a fact that no matter how Scotland votes in a general election that they only ever get the government that England votes for. Would you stand for that if you were them?
All the history is correct and would agree currently independence movement is becalmed but it's more to do with SNP than underlying support as you said. If you look at demographics, below 50a overwhelmingly support independence. 75% of Scots do not consider themselves British. It's only the over 60s that are unionists. Labour have a term or so to save the union I would say. A Scottish Tory said to Gavin esler the only way she union will be saved is by labour. If they are insipid, don't reform Westminster and the Tories get back in expect independence to be back with a vengeance. UK is on borrowed time still.
Only way i can see Scotland going independent is if starmer guarantees a referendum to get labour in. But I doubt he’d do that as it’d lose him votes in England
I can only see him doing that if he needs the SNP to form a government in Westminster. But if the polls prove to be correct, he won't need the SNP as Labour should win a comfortable majority.
I don't think it would lose him votes the average English voter does not give a stuff about Scottish Independence.The reason he won't is that the Labour party are a unionist party.
Scottish independence would be dreadful for England. When that free natural resource tap is turned off what will they do? 90+% of the UK’s oil and gas fields lie in Scottish waters. Scotland is a net exporter of food while England must import most of its. The majority of UK fish landings are in Scottish ports and with 100% of the worlds Scotch whisky production, currently worth £5 billion pa to the UK Treasury, it’s a mystery why anyone would question the viability of renewable energy rich Scotland in the EU and not isolated Tory destroyed England. Your schools are collapsing, rapists walk the streets because your prisons are full, your beaches and riverbanks are covered in sh1t, teenagers are stabbed to death daily, no one can get a GP appointment, your doctors and nurses strike weekly pushing up waiting times for vital operations, your previous PM crashed the economy, tanked the pound, added £100’s pm to mortgages and, according to the governor of the Bank of England, pensions were just hours from being wiped from existence. Not to mention the proven, pathological liar before her that was content to see, “bodies piled in their thousands”, as a response to a lethal public health emergency. All that after removing the country from the biggest single market on the planet effectively imposing economic sanctions upon yourselves. You do you, we’ll go our own way.
@@glasgovipsolara well, that was a lot, very little of it true though. Typical blaming of everything around you, no responsibility taken. The oil claims are twaddle and have been SNP propaganda for decades. It comes from an agreement about legal jurisdiction rather than ownership. If you think Scottish teenagers are well behaved cherubs and your waterways pristine, I suspect you've never been to Scotland. All your claims are myopic half truths. If you want to be independent, that's fine, but your claims of being a beleaguered eloi under a fascist junta is laughable. You want to go it alone? Fine, but you won't be able to blame all your problems on everyone else, see how well you fare when you have to take responsibility. As crap as tressemé was, she didn't have her garden dug up by police and her incredibly cruddy camper van confiscated.
@@LudvigIndestrucable - “very little of it true”? Please, give us the truth. “Blaming of everything”, Westminster has blamed the EU, the French, the Germans, the Irish, immigrants, asylum seekers, doctors, nurses, train drivers, “remoaners”, the disabled, the unemployed and just about everyone else but themselves. Our beaches and riverbanks are not like yours, covered in ordure. Our water is under public ownership, no shareholders to satisfy with profits from the public and no government bail outs. Our teenagers are not being slaughtered in our streets weekly as is the case in England. If you think your government in Westminster is not a tad fascist after demonising foreigners, curbing the right to protest, trying to stop channel 4 news from asking hard questions, bunging billions to chums and party donors, deporting black UK citizens back to Caribbean countries they left as children, sending vans around English cities emblazoned with “immigrants go home” and the Grenfell debacle then YOU are part of the problem. Which of my “claims are myopic half truths”? Enlighten us all. The performative police dig at the FM’s address was and is seen by most Scots as fulfilling Michael Goves imperative, as detailed in the recently leaked report on the union that he used Covid funds to commission and spent years defying court orders to make public, in that the union can be saved by decapitating the leadership of the independence movement. Salmond was first, then Sturgeon. Investigating the use of party funds donated by members? Where’s the crime? Where, after 3 years of “looking at the books”, are any charges? The entire farrago is not novel. The British state, ask any Irishman, is adept at such behaviour. The same methods were used to stop Malta from becoming independent and many other countries, now independent, I’m sure experienced similar tactics. And the deflection works. Where are the police investigations into the billions given to day-old companies for useless PPE? Michele Mone is cutting about in a new yacht! Paid for with OUR TAXES! Others with zero experience of medical supplies, like Grant Shaps(?) local pub landlord were handed millions of taxpayers money - where are the tents on their lawns? Face it, you’re an idiot who thinks he knows something about Scottish politics when in actual fact you’re simply an ignoramus who will regurgitate the Daily Mail op-ed’s about Scotland and believe you’re informed. Take it from someone born in Scotland and who lives and works in Scotland, you know nothing.
Independence doesn't mean SNP support. I will continue to vote SNP because they (and the Scottish Greens) are the non-Unionist Parties in Scotland. I realise that England keeps attempting to gaslight Scots into giving up Independence. However, the statistics show that Independence is inevitable. If you check out all Scottish tranches of voters by 10 yearly age sectors you will discover that the only tranche with a majority unionist support is 64+. Nature keeps increasing the Independence majorities in this, as well as all other, groups. Irish Reunification is now likely within 10-15 years. Independence is, as I said, inevitable. NO unionist rule is acceptable. Red Tories masquerading as a pale facsimile of true Labour isn't going to cut it north of the Border. England's Labour is so far right it barely manages to pretend it is a centrist Party. It is not a left wing Party.
500,000 people have died in Scotland in the last 10 years since 2014. Most of them are over 65 years old. In 2014 the over 65's were voting 70%+ NO. On that basis over 350,000 NO voters have gone. Replaced at the other end by young adults polling 80%+ YES( These 18-35 figures are from the Michael Gove "State of the Union" report released in January). 35-55 year olds are polling 80%+ YES. Do you get the unstoppable drift to YES, despite the best efforts of the Unionist press and media in Scotland. Demographics are doing the job for us. The corrupt Tory Westminster Government is doing the job for us. They can stall all they want but all that is doing is increasing the YES vote as more unionists die out. In 2030 a "Generation" of voters will have passed since 2014(We allow 16 year olds to vote in Scottish elections. Westminster cannot deny another referendum. At the latest 2030, but hopefully sooner, Scotland will be independent!
And those who have aged have swayed more to No naturally. The older you get the more right wing people usually become and that will lead to more no voters so I doubt they’re will a change
@@hugepumpkin8094 62 countries have left the Empire, so I think we will be fine. Scotland is the only home nation with a positive balance of trade and that will grow as we add energy, oil and other areas reserved to Westminster. We have a huge whisky export trade which is growing as Asian countries are now able to afford luxuries. We build the most satellites in Europe and will be launching satellites from northern Scotland soon. Our water is clean and nationalised. Electrification of our railways is progressing and East coast line is next. All is good mate. England though....... they will be totally fucked without us 🤣🤣🤣
People's political affiliations, and especially positions on specific issues, shift as they get older. There's also no guarantee new generations will have the same political skew as the ones before them. You don't have to take my word for it - left-leaning politics is almost universally more popular amongst younger people than older people, and has been probably for centuries. And yet the we aren't all living in ever-more-left-wing states. Why? Because affiliations drift.
@@merrymachiavelli2041 Older demographic is also moving to YES. Check Westminster's "State of the Union" paper. That is why no standing PM wants the break up of the Union on their historical CV. Starmer will deny Scotland just as voraciously as the Tories. They know they will lose this time.
I hate to break it to you but the reality of the Kingdom of Scotland being its own separate entity is over a millennia old and is far bigger than a single political party.
That wont make any difference. Getting rid of the incompetent SNP and replacing them with a party with an actual plan might help boost the numbers though.
that's ... not how that works , i like the spirit but no no serious party would back a vote like that especially Britain's weakened state. - reform uk might simply to be accelerationist towards fascism Best you could hope for is a constitutional reform to the union to improve everyone's better. simply put to be a patriot you need a country worth being proud off.
The full name of the Tory party is "The conservative and unionist party" because it believes in the UK as a union of countries. So it's no surprise that they are for keeping the UK together.
i support Scottish independance, but as an Australian, the largest effect for me will be the flag changing, how would British colony flags change? the blue on our flag is kinda the biggest part of it
its interesting to note that, Scotland and England have vastly different views when it comes to LEGAL migration, England hates both LEGAL and IILEGAL migration, which is rightfully so, because an island country like Great Britain cannot sustain such large levels of migration where land is extreamly limited. Scotland on the other hand, crying the rhotic "We need migration, Our population is declining!" without zero regards to how dangerous migration can be to a country. yeah Scotland cry me a river, I couldn't care less, if you want indy and migration too, then England has no choice but to implement a hard border on you.
I see the psyop is working on you. Never mind the money that the Tories are looting, just look at four Albanians in a boat, they're the real threat to your way of life!
Yeah I think that's what the debates within SNP showed, what Scotland actually means and what government would be formed after, with SNP being held together up with independence what would come after would be certainly interesting 🤔
Give the people what they want! No to free school meals. No to free bus travel for children. No to the child payment scheme. No to free childcare. No to free prescriptions. No to public owned rail. No to NHS pay settlements. Yes to student fees. Yes to the bedroon tax. Yes to period poverty Give the people what they want! Give them Unionism!
No to unfunded UK state pensions! No to a central bank! No to Scottish currency! No to Edinburgh's financial sector! No to free cross border trade with Scotland's biggest trading partner! No to financial services protection agency!
Yes to responsible fiscal management. No to buying votes with freebies that Scotland can't afford. No to SNP corruption. No to divisive fake grievance politics. Give them Unionism!
The problem is. Polling is between 45-50% for independence. Polling for the snp is well below that. Sadly as a indy supporter who despises the SNP The only way we’re gonna get independence is most likely through time. 70+% of our youth back indy. 60% of our people 25-40 support indy. Might be awhile though
It had its moment, in 2014. The numbers simply don't add up (indeed, it would currently be catastrophic). Even the SNP are starting to realise that constant focus on constitutional shennanigans is becoming counter-productive. The only way forward for the SNP is to run the country successfully, to the point where things would be demonstrably better under indi than under the status quo. We are a long, long way from that right now.
People always bang on about "It's Scotland's oil" makes me laugh... London's financial sector has VASTLY disproportionately brought in money for all British people.. You never hear English people saying "It's services industry"
Except Scotland have a substantial service industry too. Glasgow and Edinburgh are the largest centres outside London. Additionally the wealth created in London doesn't reach the rest of England.
@duncmcinnes8569 are you seriously suggesting that an independent Scotland would be even remotely able to resist a war against the UK let alone win it lmao?
As someone from the Isles, I can guarantee you that if Scotland were to ever gain independence, we would seek independence from Scotland with the view to gain Crown Dependency status and follow in the footsteps of the Isle of Man. There's already a consensus in the Isles for that to go ahead, and the overwhelming majority of the Scottish EEZ waters belong to the Isles, not to mainland Scotland. Holyrood complains that it is ignored by Westminster, well people here feel very much the same with Holyrood because all of the attention goes into the central belt or pro-SNP places. Also, when the SNP stripped away funding from the isles just because they wouldn't get more votes here and did that as a punitive action - we haven't forgotten that.
If Cameron nad allowed a federalist solution in the 2014 ballot all if this could have been avoided. But he wanted to crush the SNP and the independence movement. It backfield just as the Brexit vote did with UKIP.
@@stephjsinclairhas Starmer said he supports further devolution for the constituent countries or for all British regions, eg the North West or Yorkshire & the Humber?
@@stephjsinclair I thought Starmer was selling himself to his target voters as a staunch unionist, devolution was a big mistake type thing. Also he has done a 180 on so many things that I think we will all be able to go ice skating in Hell before Keir does anything to change the UK voting system.
(edited) Several points: Even if Labour get a majority in Scotland they would still have to get a majority in the Senedd and Holyrood to be seen as the legitimate UK government. Scottish Labour MPs would have no guarantee of freedom of conscience and commitment to their constituents as they have to follow the party whip. The Lords plan won't work for Labour, it is designed to create a form of mini-devolution and deliberately fragment the UK. The East Lothian question (Scottish votes on English laws), the Scottish legal system and the lack of an English parliament for English specific matters crop up here. There is also the matter of a slight ethnic difference much like with Czechia and Slovakia, whilst this might sound bizarre it does matter somewhat. NATO wants the UK to continue existing, an independent Scotland would be seen as a sign of weakness to Russia/China even though Scotland would immediately join NATO. The Barnett Formula would need to be radically revised to compensate the North-South divide, but this would be seen as deeply unpopular in Scotland because it's constitutional status would be changed and Scots would get significantly less in terms of spending.
I'm of Scottish ancestry. I wouldn't like to see Scotland become a trojan horse on the isles for EU. So I think UK should continue, and all the common heritage and history would come to an end. SCO and ENG have been together so long, changing it now doesn't seem necessary or the right thing to do.
No, what we want is consistency. If a party stands on a manifesto and wins an election to give the people a vote on X, then the vote on X should happen because that’s what the people voted for. Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP had the biggest mandate in the United Kingdom and were told to shut up and get back in their box with the rest of Scotland. How is it fair that an entire nation is being held to ransom by another just because it’s too scared to go it alone themselves?
Actually that sounds like a fine example democracy to me. You yourself vote on the same old thing every few year in a general election. Why can't the Scots have the same level of democracy?
N Ireland can vote every seven years. Monumental change either England's brexit made 2014 vote void . Scots were actually told by staying in UK campaign that yo stay in EU meant not leaving UK .
@@FightingTorque411 voting for different (although in reality in the UK, usually quite similar) economic and social policies which still retain the same capitalist foundation established in earnest by Margaret Thatcher every few years is much less disruptive and uncertain for businesses and investors than a significant constitutional referendum every few years. If you don't believe me, one word, Brexit.
It's always fascinating to delve into discussions about political and historical topics, such as Scottish independence. The history and culture of Scotland are so rich and vibrant, and it's intriguing to see how these elements intertwine with contemporary politics. Regardless of the current status or future of Scottish independence, it's a topic that certainly sparks a lot of passionate conversation and brings to light the importance of understanding and respecting diverse perspectives. It's great to see people engaging with such significant and thought-provoking subjects! 🌍✨
Good. I don’t want scottish independence while only the SNP are popular. it seems very risky to the development of an independent scotland to only have a one party state out of the gate. a diverse political landscape will ensure healthy competition and refinement of policy once it does arrive.
That’s not what happens. Sinn Fein haven’t held power in Ireland for more than a century despite being the party which was most associated with gaining independence. Very often the party which achieves it splits into other parties or whithers away.
The SNP would collapse in an independent Scotland, there's too many diverse groups that all vote for the SNP purely because they're the largest pro-indy party.
This video has been online for one day and already needs to be updated. Labour's branch office, Scottish Labour, aren't going to achieve any sort of landslide in Scotland given the past 48hrs.
So true... Think they'll find the Labour resurgence just unionists moving from Tory to Labour. No right thinking independence supporter would vote Labour are the last referendum.
@@SSMMTTEE They really are The SNP is a vehicle towards independence. And it's not the only one. People who support independence, their belief in independence doesn't rely on how the SNP are doing, their belief in independence instead is based on what they think is in the best interests of Scotland as a country going forward. The SNP will more than likely split post independence.
@@Lando-kx6sounder the terms of the 1998 Scotland Act, which our devolved Parliament agreed too, the right to call a referendum belongs to the UK Government at Westminster which is supreme non reserved matters. The SNP must respect the law and give up their misguided attempt for a losers vote.
@@Lando-kx6so Westminster doesn't have the final say. Demonstration of being a resource colony is there, an appeal to the UN for decolonisation is legitimate & given the political shackles Westminster has created at every opportunity, difficult for them to deny. Add the terms agreed with regard to the Good Friday agreement, there is an argument Scotland should also be afforded definable terms for holding a Referendum that eliminates the political whims of Westminster, opposition to such an approach can only be seen as undemocratic & another demonstration of Scotland's position in an abusive political relationship, you can leave, but only when I say so!
If a Labour government happens and they give more power to the scottish parliament, it could just make it that when the independence movement stops being dormant, they actually have enough power to push through an independence referendum
Exactly! Independence only became a possibility when they got the Parliament and even then it failed. Just leave it alone is my view. It is not like the Scottish can govern themselves either.
More power given by Labour government could mean less chance of independence because Scotland has more to lose. I.e loss of benefits, disproportionate tax from richer regions.
@@johnnotrealname8168- “it’s not like the Scottish can govern themselves either”?! Sunak was the THIRD choice to be PM. His predecessor lasted 49 days but in that short time she managed to crash the economy, tank the pound, add £100’s pm to our mortgages and, according to the Governor of the Bank of England, our pensions were just hours from being wiped from existence. Her predecessor suggested we “let the virus run through the country”, “let the bodies pile high in their thousands”, while partying in No. 10, lying incessantly to the public, parliament and the Queen and making Downing Street the number 1 UK address for the most Covid lawbreakering. The very same PM who apparently got “Brexit done”. The only nation on the planet to impose economic sanctions upon ITSELF! It’s patently evident that the English are incapable of governing themselves.
If the SNP lose many of their Westminster seats in 2024 and then also lose the Scottish Parliament elections in 2026 they'd not have a significant vehicle to push for an Independence referendum.
The SNP are not Scottish Independence. They’re simply the best chance of achieving it at the moment. You’re looking at this through the English personality politics lens. That’s not how Scots vote, we don’t look at what we consider to be side issues like Police investigations and politicians’ ethnicities. The independence movement took a heavy backward blow when Nicola Sturgeon proved that Scotland was not in a voluntary political union with the rest of the UK. That’s what harmed the cause, not overdue ferries/ potentially fraudulent accounting/ ill concieved recycling schemes etc etc, those of us with two brain cells to rub together know that all of that is just distraction it’s not the key problem the SNP have. We are waiting for Humza to come up with a solution to the problems with another referendum.
It is worth remembering that the elderly conservatives of today were once the radical youth of the hippie generation. People's views change with time, and people who emigrate to Scotland from other parts of the UK are also less likely to support independence.
@@FreyFox87 its also worth remembering that is an old study based on one article. you are pedalling. this generation has had more recessions the in their life time than their parents and grandparents combined, wages have been stagnant since about the 70s, price inflation is at its highest, cost of living in general also. no ones changing their views in their life time. that's clear as they know who are to blame. this generation is the internet generation they a vast wealth of knowledge and they dont get it from news papers and tv who tend to favour 2 parties. as for Scottish indy voters ive seen many change from no to yes, hardly ever seen a yes to no.
@@chosenundead6376 That's the company you keep. It's been nearly ten years since the indy ref - If none of these younger Scots were changing their minds then the polls would reflect this, and quite simply, they don't.
Too many rumours of corruption, progressive nonsense and pro Palestine rhetoric. Add to that the hopelessness expecting Scottish self-rule and you have a very unappealing electoral prospect. They will soon return to being a fringe movement and a wasted vote. Expect Labour to regain its dominance of Scottish politics this year.
you have to keep in mind as well that this election will be filled with tactical voting in order to get the Tories out its not that labour are the good choice its that they are the only choice.
You have to remember that this is the current state of affairs before any such campaigning has begun. of course we learnt that the hard way from previous votes. I still think that Independence is a major issue behind the cost of living right now. I'm more annoyed at the fact we cant have a proper debate any more about the pros cons and possible options of independence. everything is framed under "No one wants the vote in the first place" vs " you had a vote in 2014". Independence is more than the SNP. There are many people from every part (Even conservative and labour) who would vote for it. Im getting pretty tired of the typically england based media players who are on the outside looking in and commeting on our behalf, you have no idea about whats going on "on the ground". The SNP have been hounded over the Covid enquiry and such when the Westmister lot were partying and stating let the bodies pile high.
Too late! A big pool of oil and gas between Scotland and Norway. Now Norway is rich and everyone has a fat pension. Scotland's share was whisked away by London and disappeared. Remember Brown's Bottom? What was that about? Too tricky for me, but someone got rich.
@@Jayson_McFeely.Athletics Do you know why Scotland merged with England in the first place? It's because they failed to colonise and became broke. They are completely reliant on the rest of the UK, so wake up.
@@Jayson_McFeely.Athletics 61% of Scotland's exports come from the rest of the UK while only making 10% of it's overall income. They're not going anywhere.
Ignore the IPSOS polls. IPSOS inflates the SNP's popularity because it gets 5 million quid a year from the Scottish government to do all of its departmental polling. It's nothing more than a front for Angus Robertson's propaganda ministry.
@@Finnbobjimbob It's from a crooked IPSOS poll. IPSOS btw gets £5 million a year from the Scottish government to do all of its departmental polling so it inflates the SNP's popularity. Yet more SNP corruption for you.
As an Englishman living in Scotland, the idea of the SNP getting independence is terrifying to me. They've said countless times that they genuinely believe that the UK will continue to pay for Scottish pensions after they leave and that they wont have to take any debt with them, only agree to help the UK pay it off without the financial burden on themselves. The fact that they believe this worries me that they dont actually have a clue how to handle an independent Scotland.
@@MichaelGGarry it would make less sense for the UK to continue paying than Scotland to take over. Why should England Wales and Northern Ireland have to pay for Scottish pensions and Scotland themselves not have to contribute? That doesn't make sense. If Scotland wants to be independent then it needs to be fair, which means pay their own pensions and take their fair share of the debt.
@@garymacdonald7165 I'm an Englishman who has lived in Scotland before and would absolutely vote for independence. Screw Westminster and the self-serving vermin within.
@@damienreilly4347 Of course it makes sense for pensions that have already been paid into, either that or all the contributions, plus interest, need to be returned to the Scottish government.
Right now, Scottish voters may think Labour will make things work. Inevitably governments never deliver as much as their supporters want. Independence may be the only option if Scots wants a future.
It's important to realize the SNP is made up of many different factions who all want independence for their own reasons. The SNP won't last very long in a post independent Scotland, and will inevitably split.
Which is fine -
Isn't the main split erupting because of monarchy vs republic
Isn't it the plan, kinda ?
This still doesn’t answer the question of whether independence is dead. The answer is yes and you just don’t want to admit it.
If independence was so popular in Scotland, why did the Independence campaign lose in 2014?
Also, if independence is so popular amongst the people, surely Scots would stick with the SNP no matter what, as a bandwagon for independence.
The fact of the matter is, not all Scots that vote SNP is want independence.
For many, the SNP became the ‘Scottish interest party’ rather than strictly the ‘independence party’ - Sturgeon herself admitted all this in 2019.
So my point here is that it isn’t clear independence was ever a massively popular idea amongst Scottish voters. The decline of the SNP is yet more evidence of this.
That's ok. The political parties are basically 3 Unionist and 2 Independence. After Independence they will morph into whatever the country votes for. Left, centre left, centre right or very unlikely right. What Scotland won't have, is this constant abuse from Unionist parties on every single policy good or bad, because their job is to protect this vile UK union and sow dissent.
Seems very similar to what has happened here in Canada with Quebec. After decades of separatist government and two failed referendums, Quebec eventually just stopped re-electing the PQ and switched their support to the CAQ, which is autonomist but not separatist. The separatist movement isn't completely dead, around a third of Quebecers would still vote for independence, but the situation has come to a kind of begrudging standstill since 1995 and doesn't look like it's going to change radically anytime soon.
The important thing is that they had the right to choose.
Sounds nothing like Scotlands situation, Scotland is the oldest country on these isles, existed long before any union with England.
Prior last referendum independence was consistently polling below 30%, ten years on its polling consistently around 50% and has been for years now, the union is held up by the older voters, we know this, it’s just a waiting game, these generations of older people grew up in a time where they had three channels pumping our British propaganda 24/7, those days are long gone, the youth don’t buy into it over their European identity.
Yeah but didn’t Quebec get like 3 gos at a referendum? We’ve only had one. If I remember right didn’t Quebec get up to about 49% yes in the third and final one? And to me that goes to show that allowing them actually depresses the Yes vote - but I could be way off the mark if they only had one vote in 1995.
Guess the difference is that Quebec has never been a country in its own right. Scotland is one of the oldest countries in the world and is in a union with 3 other countries
@@New-ye2fl Not every independent voter wants to leave the UK only to be subsumed by the EU. A lot of independence voters want to be completely independent from both the UK and Europe
Johnson is a gift for the SNP, but Truss and Sunak is a gift for Labour.
😂
@@shivanshbisht9439 Every Conservative is a gift for the SNP. We never vote for them and yet we are ruled by them. It's the definition of tax without representation.
America rebelled on that basis as we should too. Not to mention the centuries of Abuse by the English. Genocidal cunts.
Luv and Peace.
Why? That doesnt actually make sense
@@godlovesyou1995because the worse the English government leader, the stronger the case for Scottish independence
@@aceman0000099 Could be easily argued that Truss was worse than Bojo
Scotland vote against independence in 2014. People went to vote under the threat of being out of the European Union if they voted to abandon United Kingdom. Two years later, the Brexit referendum was held. Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain in the European Union, but the overall result was to leave the EU. I don't know. It seems like an unfair situation for the Scots. They didn't vote for independence due to the threat of being expelled from the EU, and shortly afterward, they end up outside despite voting the opposite.
Nope. They held the vote in 2014 KNOWING that there would be a Brexit vote for the whole of the UK later on. So, they voted to stay in and participate in that vote under the conditions set. Just because they wanted in more doesn't mean it was unfair ! 38% of Scots still voted out, that's not an insignificant amount
@@randomcomputer7248 so 38% is "not an insignificant amount" but 44% is not worth another vote?
@@brianbks02 if 44% is worth another vote then 38% is too then ?
If Scotland had secured Scexit in 2014 they'd have achieved leaving the EU at the same time
Thus, by default any Scottish nationalist in 2014 was a Brexiteer
Your comment is as dumb as saying if the U.S held a referendum on whether to leave NATO and for example the state of New Jersey alone Votes against leaving NATO but other states vote to leave NATO then the State of New Jersey should now be able to leave the U.S so it can join NATO by itself
A lot of the comments are just ignoring what TL;DR are saying and arguing against points they either clarified or did not make
It's because it's reporting on something they don't like. They probably didn't even watch the video.
People don't watch videos, they read titles. Try it yourself, look up a video longer than five minutes and see how many comments reference anything that's said after the first few minutes.
Probably because TLDR is a company that is made up of reject financial times editors and Sunak suck ups that have to toe closer to fact just because TH-cam has higher standards then Oligarch Toilet Rags.
Not watched the video as historically TLDR don't have a clue about UK politics, only English.
Their reporting on independence is woeful
@@elliotwilliams7421 Is it 'woeful' or is it not biased enough for you? You want them to say what you want to hear, not what's actually true.
I’m a federalist although I want to preserve the UK’s unity and existence but at the same time I would prefer that the governance of the UK is reformed and decentralised with each nation and region having its own self governance. This might present a good opportunity to promote that federalist option.
You can keep the union in britain, but the island of Ireland will run entirely by the Republican government🇮🇪
@@Ceiteach.O.DuibhirI don't want to join the republic
@@Ceiteach.O.Duibhir take them, if Brexit has proven anything its that they're more trouble than they're worth, have fun with the crazy unionists in the republic lmao
@@Ceiteach.O.Duibhir It might surprise you to learn that a great many Northern Irish don't want to be in the Republic xP
(edited "millions" to "a great many". The point of the message remains the same)
@@KingAgniKaitoo bad
These videos are so informative for those of us who don't live in the UK and have only a surface level knowledge of subjects like this. Thanks for your work!
Ya😅
informative propaganda but not accurate
Then tell us what is accurate.@@johnnicolson467
TLDR only has a surface understanding
Then please, feel free to step in and fill the void.@@wpjohn91
I think this is a fairly well done appraisal of the situation and the future of Scottish politics. For years the SNP had higher levels of support among the population than independence. For the first time (basically ever) independence is more popular than the SNP and it looks set to continue that way for a long time. This I think reflects an important maturation of the debate on Scottish independence and as this video remarks, important to no longer lazily view the fate of the SNP and independence as intertwined.
England's political system has totally failed its citizens,its antiquated and almost "medeavil" in its function,where the only choice is between two has beens who are just regurgitating the same or similar polices that have brought nothing but demise to the country.
Unless someone is a sadomasochist and dose not do critical thinking and has no ethics and wants to swallow more of the same regurgitated bull shit from third rate politicians,who most them are not even capable of running a tuck shop i would say where well and truly fucked.
Its a shame we here in Scotland cant escape this insanity quicker,the sooner we get out of this so called union of "equals" now thats an oxymoron,the better for Scotland.
It largely is. The Labour Party and the Tories are not about to advocate independence and as yet no party is there to fill the space.
Voting for MSPs and MPs still make SNP very important. We need to keep a majority in Holyrood. Until we get another referendum, voting SNP reduces the amount of Unionist politicians. Don't be fooled by people separating the two. That is Unionist divisive crap!!
@@graemeglass7566unionist divisive crap, you nats are voting for a border wall and a new currency between your biggest trading partner, the rest of the UK.
@@graemeglass7566 Unionists being divisive, quite ironic mate.
An independence supporting friend who lives in Fife but happens to be English sent me this comment on Scotland's struggle for self determination...
I subscribe to Quora and an Irish citizen quoted this which was buried in a UK government spokesperson's remarks. I congratulated him on pinpointing the truth of why WM wants to keep Scotland:
"If Scotland does become independent, the rump of the UK(r-UK) will lose most of its fishing waters and Exclusive Economic Zone(EEZ), nearly all its oil and gas reserves, close to a third of its land area, massive renewable energy resources, a huge part of its freshwater reserves, and a parking place for its nuclear weapons and the nuclear submarines which carry them."
This is why "No to Section 30", plain and simple.
The full might of the Unionist media, politicians, civil servants, MI5 and 77th Brigade work tirelessly to persuade Scots that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to run their own country. Fortunately the younger generations are not that easily fooled.
UK Gov commissioned polling in 2021 confirms that the desire for independence has greatly increased in younger voters since 2014. 82% of 18 - 24s would now vote Yes, as would 81% of 25 - 34s and 61% of 35 - 55s. However, over 55s are more in favour of the union with 44% of 55 - 64s supporting Yes and only 27% of over 65s supporting independence.
There is clear evidence that Scots are much less likely to become more conservative and/or become unionists as they age… Every year 50K new young voters replace the 50K older voters who have ‘departed’… Tick tock… Demography will get us there!
I don`t understand the connection with fresh water reserves. I have seen this mentioned before. Do Scots believe they supply England with water?
@@clownofthetimes6727Scotland has 90% of the UK's fresh water resources. In the decades to come, the climate may change in such a way that fresh water becomes increasingly important for England. Some predict that drought will take over much of England by 2030 and many regions of England running dry in 2040.
@@aceman0000099As someone who was never that good with geology and might need the "explain like I'm 5"-level answers, does that mean Scotland has the most fresh-water lakes / snow / rain to refill freshwater etc, and England doesn't have much of that on their own? Isn't England supposed to be very rainy?
@@goranisacson2502 yes, Scotland has its huge lochs which are surprisingly deep. There's more water in Loch Ness than in all the lakes of England put together
@@goranisacson2502England is rainy but pretty flat, really flat in some places.
As someone else said, loch Ness has more fees water than the whole of England. Scotland has a further 30000 fresh water lochs
England is against independence as it would leave England with a smaller footprint than Scotland and totally dependent on foreign food, water and energy. Mixed with their population density rising the UK credit rating would take a big hit.
Simply put, England can't afford to lose Scotland, it's water and energy resources
4 trillion in oil has been pulled from the ground in the last 40 years or so, in the same time the UK government ran up 4 trillion in debt.
UK openly admit that oil dropped the economy up through the last recession.
The SNP is only flying the flag for independence no one would really want them in an independent Scotland there would be a multitude of new parties.
Who says that they'd give up power?
If they're willing to steal from the voters who says you'd get a vote after Westminster let's them off the leash.
Thats the point doofus.
So they arent ruled by Tories but can have a choice of parties representing them. Cannot really happen until Scotland leaves.
Completely agree
I agree but to call someone a doofus because you disagree with them is petty behaviour.
@@MrAlistairheath oh sorry, I didnt realize politics in the UK avoided pettiness. I thought it was the modus operandi.
Who proofreads this? "Dorment?" Really?
Yes, shouldn't the title be "dormant"?
Typos in the graphics are all too common in TLDR videos. I'm not sure ANYONE proof-reads them but if someone one does, he/she isn't the best speller.
@@Frank-Lee-Speeking Some channels make mistakes on purpose. The purpose being that it gets people to comment so as to correct the mistake, which boosts engagement. Mind you the mistakes have to be relatively minor so people don't just dismiss the channels' content as a whole, but a spelling mistake or slightly off graphic fits in perfectly with that.
This channel is a content farm lol
@user-fj7df3ng7z
Yeah like your anything better yourself?
I don't often comment on things but I think this video is a tad misguided - SNP don't define the independence movement but are seen as the flagbearers for it right now as it's the largest party. The greens and Alba are also existing and while the SNP does have infighting right now and has sunk in the polls, the independence support has remained quite static around 45-50%. I think to truly understand the independence movement you have to actually live in Scotland and any outside statistics won't really give an insight into our behaviours.
Scottish people aren't stupid and they are lending their support to labour in order to get rid of a near billionaire PM who is leader of a party who only wants to make for it's buddies and lied on daily basis.
I think that’s a fair statement, what I would like to know is how the people of England like me can help build unity with Scotland. England is most definitely going labour soon which historically has been quite strong in Scotland. Perhaps we can come together then and shake things up as a team.
This is a running theme I see with comments on independence from media pundits, it’s never from those actually originating in the country nor do they actually go and ask Scottish people what *they* think. And even then you need to go up and down the country for that; opinions on the borders for instance are often quite different from those further up.
So no one can understand another nation’s motives unless they live there? We may as well pack in international politics altogether then
@@MadDoodles There are polls for a reason. Polls that indicate that only a minority want independence. In any case, independence movements seem to be bullying countries into it, or provinces, like New Caledonia getting three referenda on independence. It is such a stupid thing. They got a local parliament, they have legislative power of England and they had a referendum. Separatism is a threat to the fabric of the nation and ought to be suppressed.
The only way a Labour Westminster government will "kill off" (for now) Scottish (or Welsh) independence support is with a move away from FPTP in general elections to stop the UK electing the Tories on a minority of the vote. But while Labour might be a little more amenable to the Scots than the Tories have been, they're still very much going to be focused on England simply due to the relative sizes of the countries - a key point in why people who support independence say that the "union" does not work. So it's quite unlikely that independence will ever be killed off and there will always be a significant proportion of the country in favour of it.
That's not FPTP it's the Parliamentary constituencies. Even if we had PR or AV the Tories would still gain from Parliamentary constituencies, and if you want to get rid of that it's a much harder argument.
Except that same mechanism is what allows governments to form with actual majorities.
@@johnnotrealname8168 And that's worked out really well for us...
@@bujin1977It is okay.
@@johnnotrealname8168 No, it really isn't.
There needs to be an investigation of the investigation of the SNP / Sturgeon.
The police have been very public with the accusations, but fail to press charges. To me, that looks like a political hit job.
Likewise for brexit, boris, nige, et al…
the second after the press attacks the SNP all the charges against them seem to be forgotten about as if some mysterious group of blue and red men pulled some strings
The Salmond debacle too.
PPE for example lots of criminal stuff going on down in Westminster nothing seems to been done about it
Of course it was a political hit job. It can be nothing else.
The level of vitriol directed at the SNP for an apparent shortfall in membership fees of around half a million pounds (their own capital as an entity too, not public funds) is well, well, well out of proportion to any wrongdoing (though there was never any wrongdoing in the first place so the point is kind of moot).
Meanwhile, the Tories palm off actual billions to the Michelle Mones of the world and what do we hear about it? "SNP baaaad! >:(", "Independence is deeeead!!!1!"
As a Scottish viewer, I never liked the Independence movement.
It just feels like they're putting all of the blame for all of Scotland's wows on England. It's only a half truth, as in reality, they could've done more for Scotland if they focused on today's Scotland, not some far future Independent Scotland.
As an Englishman I like this because after living in Scotland for four years I did feel there is a media problem where those who are intrigued by independence read largely english-hating independence-loving papers that made themselves more hateful like The National. If the news was less polarising I think that could help stop this blame game.
@@Aragornofmoria I Nationalist paper and about 15 Unionist papers. I think polarising is not accurate. An avalanche of independence hate spews every day from all these papers. The National only has a circulation of a few thousand and you will be lucky to finf it in most retail outlets. Prime time TV is also controlled by Unionist biased editors and producers. Get real mate, Independence is solid despite and massive bias in the media
*You're not Scottish though*
"wows"
Did you mean *woes, you obvious unionist Tory supporter.
@Mark-Haddow I was born in Scotland, to Scottish parents whose parents were born in Scotland, etc.
Who are you to say where I am from or not.
thank you for a video educating non-uk nationals. also, a big like for increasing the time of the video to cover the topic properly. just one thing, you had a typo at 11:37. dormant, not dorment
Don't trust TLDR on independence or anything outside of English politics.
The independence referendum was, in my opinion, the precursor project to brexit regarding Cambridge Analytica and the power of media in affecting the undecided portion of the voting demographic. With a heavy portion of the "no" campaign funded by Conservatives and their partners, you can actually see a keen, singular thread focused on census manipulation.
If you look at the Scottish independence referendum and the "no" campaign's quite aggressive messaging, Scotland would be "cut off," "probably sheared off the EU, which would be disastrous," and "forced to try to find new import/export links, which would destroy our economy."
Ultimately it was this slew of messaging that swayed the undecided portion to *juuuust* opt for no.
Then, later, these EXACT SAME MESSAGES - IN REVERSE - would be utilised to sway the undecided voters to voting for Brexit. "if we don't cut ties, it'll be disastrous for our autonomy!," "If we don't forget new export routes soon we'll be at the behest of our EU overlords!," and so on.
They took literally the exact same argument, convinced the populace of one thing, then within the same half decade, convinced them that the opposite was true... and the majority took that bait.
It proved how fickle the deciding segment of the votership is, in the UK, and how with enough money, the outcome can always be decided by those with big purses. Many will disagree they had their vote swayed by calculated media - but as Twain once said, "It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled."
I think you don't give the voters enough credit.
You can argue the exact opposite in relation to people who voted yes to Scottish independence.
They did not care about potentially losing access to our largest trading partner (rUK) but they insisted that Britain leaving the EU was economic suicide as the EU were our largest trading partner.
To me this highlights that for many independence voters (Scottish/Brexit) their reasons were ideological more than practical and logical.
@stuartsummers1303 that's true - some heart, some head, but I think what this new age of "cash for cookies" has showed proof of is that those *without* premeditated conclusions/votes were swayed quite successfully.
@SaintGerbilUK I'm not saying people are stupid - just that we're easily manipulated. That's not stupidity, if anything that just makes them susceptible/too trusting of new information, which is arguably admirable in some ways.
But if you look at the voting intention that was definite yes, definite no, and "undecided" at the start, then the final outcome, it's almost certainly hugely weighted by the undecided crowd in the end.
I remember those scare tactics ,Scots were being told they'd lose access to sterling ,to BBC ,and even MotD ,the English right wing,typically when it came to a "home country" wanting to leave , behaved abysmally ,their attitude to democracy is a pretence.
As someone from a region strong independence movement, I don't think a failed party is related to the movement itself, but just can slow it down...
Only failed because of the torrent of media spin from Unionist papers and media. They are doing their job to sow dissent and division. Yet Indy support remains solid. There has not been one campaign since 2014 on independence. Unionists are dying out replaced by young adults polling 80%+ YES. SNP aren't failing. Weak members and supporters are being swayed by a hostile media.
Independence is only a political game. There’s no benefit to it
100%. The idea that people have swung from yes to No and therefore independence is dead is complete wishful thinking by the british establishment.
Independence for Québec is dead. Fevers can break.
@@donatist59 Following your logic, Canada itself is still part of the UK!
It's kind of strange for Scotland to want nationalism and devolvement from central power in Westminster and England, while at the same time thinking they will be embraced by, join and submit themselves to the super centralised EU Union state. They are trading one centralised power (which affords them a lot of autonomy) for another even bigger and more restrictive, in the name of independence. Scotland has relied (since 1707) on a number of English backed subsidies, they think the EU, with all of its troubles and shortcomings are going to want to prop up Scotland financially and economically? I don't think so.
Scotland would have more power over itself in the EU than it does in the UK, if it were to join the EU.
You can't really judge Scotland economically as Westminster holds almost all the powers related to the economy and finances, HMRC, DWP, foreign affairs, etc.
Union has worked both ways. Westminster got 4 trillion in oil money and Scotland got about 8% of that
@@elliotwilliams7421 The EU is an evolving union taking more power with each passing decade
You think Scotland would have less power if we left the uk and join the EU as an independent state? lol
The silent voters decide everything ! This is why if the SNP want to stay in power they have to start listening to the silent voters, reflecting their concerns and values. Humza Yousaf only appeals to loyal SNP members. If labour win a majority in Scotland it is only because the SNP can’t get their message straight, not that suddenly Scots love Labour again.
Even the die hard nats have had enough of Humza.
Or it could be because Humza Yousaf is just generally unlikeable and not a very good politician?
Hard to listen to people who are silent. Also, most people assume that the "silent" people agree with them
i don't think thats true, lots of people (lots of labour voters) like humza more than starmer, from my experience. every single Scottish labour voter I've spoken to has said as much, although I cant see any official polls on it; I imagine it would be difficult to measure.
As a dead Scot myself, this was very insightful
"As a dead Scot myself, this was very insightful"
I trust you are still voting
seems to ignore the very basic fact that the numbers used are wrong. Independence YES voters are currently at 53% and stands at 75% among the younger section of the population (18-45 years old). It is only a matter of time.
You lot have been saying that for ten years, and the polls ( should you ever figure out how to read them) show that.
Aye, until they realise that independance means having to work, have a clue about your country and give a sh*t. Odd how the kids seem to change their minds after that., but it's ok, they'll have voted in another random with 0 connection to the country to rule it by then.
@@Pizza23333 All the polls are garbage, they're all inherently biased.
It's not a secret that younger Scottish folk are more pro independence, and they're not getting less pro-Indy as they age, unlike we were told.
Because of course peoples political views do not change with age especially when you have your pension invested in the UK scheme.
I am just preparing for a very important interview and this video absolutely saved my life, it was comprehensive, extensive, absolutely beautifully structured and understandable and I am so grateful right now! Thank you! :)
The SNP doesnt have Blackford-Sturgeon anymore, and i cant see them being very popular until they can find new leaders who mirror that level of popularity
they are winning in the polls what the hell are you on
Blackford was never popular.
@@malehumanperson7901Except at Greggs.
@@tomk8729
There's s Greggs in Blsckford.
The presenter doesn't know Scottish politics very well and makes the assumption that the independence of Scotland completely lies with the SNP. It doesn't. The rest of the UK are about to find that out.
The people of Scotland are sovereign, even Westminster acknowledges that. We don't need anyone's permission for Scotland to become Independent. We have our own laws (Claim of Right, Declaration of Arbroath, etc) going back hundreds of years that Westminster were trying to airbrush out of history.
Salvo, Scottish Liberation Movement, ALBA, ISP, to name a few are the real influential groups. But most importantly, independence will happen in Scotland, not by Westminster.
Anyway, the Union is dead. Scotland will inevitably be an independent country again.
People who try to secede end up realizing very quickly that doing so ends very badly. See, the Confederacy.
massive cope please explain how instead of making threats
You sound almost like the Texan secessionist that doesn't understand that the US Constitution doesn't permit a US state to unilaterally leave the Union. There's not even a recognized legal process or self-determination referendums in US law.
The side that has constitutional law and democratic support on its side will ultimately be successful, and it sounds like you've abandoned all legal reasoning. I doubt you even recognize the sovereignty of Westminster.
The UK Supreme Court, Prime Minister, and Parliament _must_ have a say in any Scottish referendum and independence recognition. That's a non-negotiable requirement.
In hindsight, Sturgeon and SNP made a huge mistake by not postponing the Scottish referendum until after the leave one.
Except there was no discussion of leaving the EU back in 2014 when the independance referendum took place...
Nobody thought 52 of the population of the UK were either Nazis or brain dead?
@@penguinzilla1995in fact the english government told us they'd block us joining the EU if we left the UK
@@user-sc4nh2yq3x . If they do we are all doomed.
Of course there had been, it was a manifesto pledge for the Tories. David Cameron made a statement Jan 23rd 2013 committing to an in-out referendum by 2017@@penguinzilla1995
The next event to affect the Scottish Independence movement (not including the next UK parliament election) will be whether Northern Ireland gets a vote on Irish reunification, and which way that vote goes. It's not a stretch to see Irish reunification being the tipping point that breaks up mainland Britain into three countries; and if this does occur European reintegration also seems likely.
Except that each country would be too small to join the EU.
As the EU have said many times.
Edit: Some small minded people below seems to think that size is entirely population. Where as I was referring to their economic size and that they would be a net detractor from the EU economy, and while they have many they don't want any more for now at least.
If a country as small as Iceland can apply, all of them can. EU has never said no UK country is too small to join, either by population or landmass.
@@SaintGerbilUK What a bizarre argument ,given the amount of EU countries with similar populations.
Did they sneak in through a window?
Your assuming there will be ah eu, I ain't joking, the Donald looks like he's going tay win x election, that's tatties or the side, for the eu and nato, time tay look at the bigger picture, iyd rather have ah couple of nuk sub's oot there that even the yanks can't find, insurance policy
@@SaintGerbilUKthey are not and they have not.
No one seems to care what the English think. What if they're tired of all this? What if they are more than willing to give them independence, whether they want it or not?
I don’t mean to start caring now what the English think.
@bufferly5595 Fair enough. So, if they do just cut ties, no hard feelings.
English people are tired of this because it's an issue that has been resolved not once in 2014, but twice with the crashing of SNP popularity. The only reason Scottish people want independence is because of our economic incompetence atm, which is felt equally in places like Northern England. Fix the economy, and the cries for independence go away or at least get quieter.
As an Englishman, I'm tired of Scottish people acting like Independence would be a magic bullet for everything wrong with Scotland, when in reality they would essentially be putting their people through a 2nd Brexit - excluded from the British economy, and having to wait to be allowed into the EU if they were allowed at all. It would hurt everyone involved and solve almost nothing. We Brits are in this shit together, if Scotland splinters off it only makes everything worse for both sides, especially in the short term.
The minute the English decide they want to dissolve the UK it will happen. Being the majority gives them that power.
As an Anglo-Welsh person, I deeply regret this news.
We have to dump Scotland - preferably now but inevitably later - as it is now a permanent dead albatross around our necks, the stench of the decline of which grows every day.
Independence for Wales next! 🏴
As a Chinese, I really wish Scottish can leave for good
UK'S economy is becoming a total failure, it's not worthy staying in this country
It speaks volumes that if the people of a country want independence from their bigger neighbour they have to first go hat in hand and ask for permission before they’re allowed to ask their own people.
The dream will never die.🏴🏴🏴
But it will make the union flag look silly.
I voted for independence in 2014 and suspect I will again one day, but for now Independence does not work with rUK outside of the single market and my former allies who continue to insist it does end up resorting to Brexity arguments "We'll get a special deal" "we will trade and do business elsewhere" "it will be solved by tech" etc. etc.
@@user-sc4nh2yq3x- EU member states can leave any time they wish. Scotland is prevented from leaving the UK despite voting into a majority numerous times a party that favours a referendum on the issue.
@@user-sc4nh2yq3x Those predictions are mostly just there for clickbait though i suspect one day its bound to happen that most of the countries in EU will be right wing Trump like parties (surprised it's not happened already), but won't really matter. Every country in EU has a veto on policies, so if something is proposed that you dont like you can stop it, also EU is really just a set of rules for minimum standards, countreis can go beyond those if they like. Despite the Brexit arguments nations in the EU are sovereign, you just agree to a common set of rules which you can exceed if you want. What policies do you think these right-wing politicians would bring in that would affect a left wing sovereign state within the EU?
@@glasgovipsolaradon’t conjoin voting for the SNP with wanting independence. People enjoy a strong Scottish voice in Westminster in the form of the SNP. However most do not want independence - polls/2014. We aren’t forced to stay in the UK, we simply don’t want ti leave.
I mostly agree with your end result but for different means I don't think that that ruk not being in the eu and Scotland needing to rejoin would be that bad, but its bad enough politically, it looks bad enough regardless if it is bad enough, just how it looks could be enough to scupper independence.
@@robadobadingdong7104 - not everyone who votes SNP wants independence granted, however by their own reporting a large percentage of those who vote Labour and LibDem do. The recently leaked private polling by the Tory party, commissioned by Michael Gove, has 80% support for independence among the 18 to 24 year olds and the Ipsos Mori poll of last week put support at 54%.
It’s as if we need an actual, official poll - like a referendum to decide. But given the shock the Tories no doubt had looking at their own data it’s perfectly understandable why they refuse to sanction another referendum - they know they’ll lose.
Hard to have an independence referendum with the English supreme court says you cant have one. That's all there is to it. As long as Westminster says no, Scotland remains a prisoner. The SNP are still going strong and will have a majority of seats in Scotland, despite what England centric media hopes and prays for. In the end, a union kept together by 'No you can't have a vote because I say so.' won't be healthy.
Both the head and deputy of the Supreme Court are senior judges in Scottish law.
So the fact you can’t even get that right throws everything else you say into reasonable doubt.
It is NOT "dead" Englishman. A devisive and OBNOXIOUS term. Scotland WILL gain its FREEDOM again. Others nations will follow. And THIS will be the BEST thing that could happen to ENGLAND, since the horror of the Tudors, destroying her and her faithful bright heart long ago. I love both nations so much. Sincerely, an American.
please stay the fuck out of other nation's politics until you figure out how your children's schools don't turn into shooting ranges and how you healthcare system is a fucking capitalist dystopia. Although seeing as your an American, I doubt your intelligent enough to do so. - Sincerely, an Indian.
@@ProtocolAbyss Great work
I would like to see the union remain intact, but I would not be opposed to some kind of reform that increases Scottish autonomy, in fact I'd be in favour of it
You cant hold both positions. You are lying to yourself.
@@user-pf5xq3lq8i Only a Sith deals in absolutes
Terrible idea
It is worth noting that the Labour support in Scotland also includes a chunk of pro-independence voters, often shown to be around 25-30%. That is likely to rise as the SNP struggle to maintain their votes. Labour will likely ignore these people and create policy primarily aimed at England, but that element of their support could play into things down the line - such as in the next Scottish elections.
The union needs major reform to survive longer-term. It has been a long time since a realistic option has been offered, Labour may get their chance soon to try something new. There is majority support in Scotland for a middle ground between independence and the current model of devolution. Whether that reduces independence support long-term I don't know, it may be a further stepping stone. Continuing to fracture the electorate into Yes/No ultimately doesn't benefit the country, so it needs a resolution. The Westminster government would be advised not to keep saying no to further referendums outright, it would be better to set some conditions in place for any further votes. Be that 60% consistent polling for yes, majority pro-independence MSPs/MPs etc.
Or how about not letting your country's integrity be beholden to probably transient voter-blocs of independence. They had a referendum and sayed no. They wanted a parliament and got it. They have Members of Parliament in Westminster and have their own legal framework. They should stop whining.
@@stephjsinclair Unions? Since when do they matter?
@@johnnotrealname8168 Why should people "stop whining"? If people don't want to be part of the UK, who are you to tell people they're whining? It's sounds like you're the whiner here.
@@johnnotrealname8168- dry your eyes. The referendum was a decade ago! People change their minds and vote differently and there’s almost a million new voters on the electoral roll now compared to 2014. 15 year olds then have kids of their own now but no say in their country’s future after having their EU citizenship removed against their will.
MP’s representing Scottish constituencies make up less than 10% of seats at Westminster. We could not hope to influence the outcome of any vote there. Our parliament has very limited powers and cannot borrow whereas YOUR parliament has ALL the powers and can borrow on international markets. Why should Scots let parties they neither elect nor can eject set their annual budget?
Alternatively, make Edinburgh the U.K. capital, give you lot just 10% of seats in the parliament, send our treasury all your money and we’ll give you back the pocket money WE think you’ll need. You’d be happy with that arrangement would you and, being unable to change it through a referendum, not complain at all?
@glasgovipsolara Dry? You lot are the ones complaining and mismanaging the economy. You already had a referendum. Stop crying and how about trying to elect better people in Scotland.
Something that I have noticed is UK government and supreme court stating that a another referendum would be illegal doesn't go down well with Scots. Taking away the chance to make their own mind up I believe is helping the independence movement.
That's why I fully expect that at some point, Scotland will just hold a referendum unilaterally and say to hell with whether England considers it legal.
@@RedXlV
1: the court of session in Scotland came to the same conclusion as the Supreme Court
2: the head of the Supreme Court is a Scot who previously was a judge in the court of session
3: ask Catalonia how that went
The polls don’t agree with your claim
Living in a country where “unionism” only has one primary meaning, it’s always a little disorienting to hear Tories described as unionists.
This has aged like fine wine
The scots already had their chance, now deal with the consequences of what you voted
Eh fuck you brexit was a fucking shit show that we didn't vote for but are getting fucked by Westminster
From Germanys point of view, a divorcing of UK is not desireable. Actually the whole continent sowered about Brexit. But better to have a functioning UK in EU community, than splitting Scottland from England, which would make an Scottish EU membership possible like Irland posses. It is astonishing how much scottish - english conflicts and wars had appearded in Brittans history. But better UK remains strong and supports EU as strong member, than continuing all this divorces. The first divorce was the Brexit. And if Scottland and Irland will try to come completely independend from England, the decay of brittish island will continue. Not good for UK and not good for Europe. Europe may be on the way to establish itself as an "fouth Global Superpower". But it can do so only if important nations like UK, Norway and Swizerland join this process. Remarkble is, that England and Scottland is NATO member. Norway is NATO member too. Swizerland is like Irland and Austria not a NATO member. But Swizerland joins the "European Skyshield Initiative" which should establish a coordinated pan european airdefence cooperation.
I'm not sure about "fourth global superpower" as much as "fourth Reich" I'm sure you're happy when the EU does things you like, but when it doesn't you have no way to hold it/them to account.
@@SaintGerbilUK Look on the Red Sea. Currently mainly USA and UK are active. But the challanges in this region will increase. Meaning that a full European activitiy could support the USA, which becomes overburdoned from Ukraine, Near East and Far East theaters. That EU is Germanys Fourth Empire is the point of view from Anti German people. Found heavely in England (but not in Scottland !) and in Poland etc.. Nowadays Germany is the "ill man" of Europe. And the weight of Germany inside EU community shrinks with Germanys own decrease. The strongest continental power today is France. Germany is a self destructive monkey theater. And no longer the pivot power of EU community. So a strong UK as EU member, could form Europe as good as France and former Germany could do.
Ok, I suggest that Vienna becomes your capital. You will only have 10% of seats in parliament. You will send all of your taxes to the Vienna Treasury and a party in government there that you haven’t voted for since 1955 will set your annual budgets with the pocket money they hand back to you. But no borrowing powers, you must balance the books. They have borrowing powers though of course, not you.
Further, the government in Vienna, that you did not vote for, will borrow “on your behalf” for things like Trident nuclear missiles, that they will put just 30 miles from your most populace conurbation, things you neither need nor want and they will make you pay for this debt with interest. Vienna will then decide to take you out of the EU against your democratically expressed will and make no provisions for your loses in business and exports. And when you consistently elect a party to your “regional” parliament and the 10% of your seats in their national parliament that wants to remedy this injustice and affront to democracy they will prevent them from voting in a referendum to leave the toxic union I’ve metaphorically put you in. You’ll go on TH-cam, see a video about it and read a very ill-informed post from someone in Scotland that knows nothing of your plight - and what do you do?
@@SaintGerbilUK Well, this has just been Godwin'd. Dial down your hyperbole, and read up on everything that's happened since 1945.
@@glasgovipsolaraI cannot understand this statements ! It seems that any historical issues are needed to attac perhaps EU community, Germany or any thing else. Better than such metaphers, which nobody can understand and interpret, would be to give clear understandabel statements. Is your comment attacs against EU, against Germany, against UK / England or what. I even cannot distill the intention and the location of this comment from reading between the lines. Are you scottish an mock against England ? And why vienna is so important ? Is it belonging to the "Wiener Congress" which ordered Europe after Napoleon or sometimes else ? Please explain it in an more educational style to let your audience understand, what you think and what you claim. Are you aginast EU, against UK or what ??
One of the drivers for independence has been the fact that for the past 14 years Scots have had a government in Westminster that they didn’t vote for, one that a majority may have actively detested. That is likely to change this year. Dormant is probably a good description of how the independence issue is likely to remain for the rest of the 20s.
Scots will never have a say in Westminster as long as they elect a party that (even if they win every seat in Scotland) only ever can represent about 3.6% of the UK population.
The leading concern of the Scots having to put up with a govt that an England majority votes for while Scotland only partially votes in favour it of would still stand.
@@ou7shined972It is the issue with a lot of these independence movements. There is the argument from culture and nationalism which I sympathise with although I do not think independence is a justifiable result however there is the dubious one of we just vewy liberal unlike the Tories or insert Centre-Right (If they even are.) party here. It is the same with Catalonia. The culture @~?£ is bull@~?£ as the reaction to a Christian woman who could speak Gàidhlig proves and the latter is meaningless because the socially liberal party gets into power soon. More often than not it is all a scam as the Scottish National Party proves.
I can see that dormancy lasting until the next election when the people of Scotland see how bland and unambitious Starmer has to be to not upset middle Englanders. IMHO that is the moment that independence will be guaranteed, when people realise that Westminster will never change things for the better
@johnnotrealname8168 the issue is democracy. You're either for it or against it. It's a fact that no matter how Scotland votes in a general election that they only ever get the government that England votes for. Would you stand for that if you were them?
All the history is correct and would agree currently independence movement is becalmed but it's more to do with SNP than underlying support as you said.
If you look at demographics, below 50a overwhelmingly support independence. 75% of Scots do not consider themselves British. It's only the over 60s that are unionists.
Labour have a term or so to save the union I would say. A Scottish Tory said to Gavin esler the only way she union will be saved is by labour.
If they are insipid, don't reform Westminster and the Tories get back in expect independence to be back with a vengeance. UK is on borrowed time still.
Have you ever been to Scotland or did you just read about it in a newspaper/history book/Wikipedia?
Only way i can see Scotland going independent is if starmer guarantees a referendum to get labour in. But I doubt he’d do that as it’d lose him votes in England
I can only see him doing that if he needs the SNP to form a government in Westminster. But if the polls prove to be correct, he won't need the SNP as Labour should win a comfortable majority.
I don't think it would lose him votes the average English voter does not give a stuff about Scottish Independence.The reason he won't is that the Labour party are a unionist party.
When WW3 is finally started, what side would Scotland be on then?
The latest made in Scotland polls show support for Independence at 57%. Why don't you report on them?
Scottish independence would be dreadful for everyone, but worst for the Scottish. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be given the choice.
Scottish independence would be dreadful for England. When that free natural resource tap is turned off what will they do? 90+% of the UK’s oil and gas fields lie in Scottish waters. Scotland is a net exporter of food while England must import most of its. The majority of UK fish landings are in Scottish ports and with 100% of the worlds Scotch whisky production, currently worth £5 billion pa to the UK Treasury, it’s a mystery why anyone would question the viability of renewable energy rich Scotland in the EU and not isolated Tory destroyed England. Your schools are collapsing, rapists walk the streets because your prisons are full, your beaches and riverbanks are covered in sh1t, teenagers are stabbed to death daily, no one can get a GP appointment, your doctors and nurses strike weekly pushing up waiting times for vital operations, your previous PM crashed the economy, tanked the pound, added £100’s pm to mortgages and, according to the governor of the Bank of England, pensions were just hours from being wiped from existence. Not to mention the proven, pathological liar before her that was content to see, “bodies piled in their thousands”, as a response to a lethal public health emergency. All that after removing the country from the biggest single market on the planet effectively imposing economic sanctions upon yourselves.
You do you, we’ll go our own way.
@@glasgovipsolara well, that was a lot, very little of it true though. Typical blaming of everything around you, no responsibility taken.
The oil claims are twaddle and have been SNP propaganda for decades. It comes from an agreement about legal jurisdiction rather than ownership.
If you think Scottish teenagers are well behaved cherubs and your waterways pristine, I suspect you've never been to Scotland.
All your claims are myopic half truths. If you want to be independent, that's fine, but your claims of being a beleaguered eloi under a fascist junta is laughable.
You want to go it alone? Fine, but you won't be able to blame all your problems on everyone else, see how well you fare when you have to take responsibility.
As crap as tressemé was, she didn't have her garden dug up by police and her incredibly cruddy camper van confiscated.
@@LudvigIndestrucable - “very little of it true”? Please, give us the truth. “Blaming of everything”, Westminster has blamed the EU, the French, the Germans, the Irish, immigrants, asylum seekers, doctors, nurses, train drivers, “remoaners”, the disabled, the unemployed and just about everyone else but themselves.
Our beaches and riverbanks are not like yours, covered in ordure. Our water is under public ownership, no shareholders to satisfy with profits from the public and no government bail outs.
Our teenagers are not being slaughtered in our streets weekly as is the case in England.
If you think your government in Westminster is not a tad fascist after demonising foreigners, curbing the right to protest, trying to stop channel 4 news from asking hard questions, bunging billions to chums and party donors, deporting black UK citizens back to Caribbean countries they left as children, sending vans around English cities emblazoned with “immigrants go home” and the Grenfell debacle then YOU are part of the problem.
Which of my “claims are myopic half truths”? Enlighten us all.
The performative police dig at the FM’s address was and is seen by most Scots as fulfilling Michael Goves imperative, as detailed in the recently leaked report on the union that he used Covid funds to commission and spent years defying court orders to make public, in that the union can be saved by decapitating the leadership of the independence movement. Salmond was first, then Sturgeon. Investigating the use of party funds donated by members? Where’s the crime? Where, after 3 years of “looking at the books”, are any charges? The entire farrago is not novel. The British state, ask any Irishman, is adept at such behaviour. The same methods were used to stop Malta from becoming independent and many other countries, now independent, I’m sure experienced similar tactics. And the deflection works. Where are the police investigations into the billions given to day-old companies for useless PPE? Michele Mone is cutting about in a new yacht! Paid for with OUR TAXES! Others with zero experience of medical supplies, like Grant Shaps(?) local pub landlord were handed millions of taxpayers money - where are the tents on their lawns?
Face it, you’re an idiot who thinks he knows something about Scottish politics when in actual fact you’re simply an ignoramus who will regurgitate the Daily Mail op-ed’s about Scotland and believe you’re informed. Take it from someone born in Scotland and who lives and works in Scotland, you know nothing.
I dont support the (closet neoliberal) SNP, but I would prefer independence.
Equating independence with SNP support is a mistake.
Independence doesn't mean SNP support. I will continue to vote SNP because they (and the Scottish Greens) are the non-Unionist Parties in Scotland.
I realise that England keeps attempting to gaslight Scots into giving up Independence. However, the statistics show that Independence is inevitable.
If you check out all Scottish tranches of voters by 10 yearly age sectors you will discover that the only tranche with a majority unionist support is 64+. Nature keeps increasing the Independence majorities in this, as well as all other, groups.
Irish Reunification is now likely within 10-15 years. Independence is, as I said, inevitable. NO unionist rule is acceptable.
Red Tories masquerading as a pale facsimile of true Labour isn't going to cut it north of the Border. England's Labour is so far right it barely manages to pretend it is a centrist Party. It is not a left wing Party.
500,000 people have died in Scotland in the last 10 years since 2014. Most of them are over 65 years old. In 2014 the over 65's were voting 70%+ NO. On that basis over 350,000 NO voters have gone. Replaced at the other end by young adults polling 80%+ YES( These 18-35 figures are from the Michael Gove "State of the Union" report released in January). 35-55 year olds are polling 80%+ YES. Do you get the unstoppable drift to YES, despite the best efforts of the Unionist press and media in Scotland. Demographics are doing the job for us. The corrupt Tory Westminster Government is doing the job for us. They can stall all they want but all that is doing is increasing the YES vote as more unionists die out. In 2030 a "Generation" of voters will have passed since 2014(We allow 16 year olds to vote in Scottish elections. Westminster cannot deny another referendum. At the latest 2030, but hopefully sooner, Scotland will be independent!
Be very, very careful what you wish for
And those who have aged have swayed more to No naturally. The older you get the more right wing people usually become and that will lead to more no voters so I doubt they’re will a change
@@hugepumpkin8094 62 countries have left the Empire, so I think we will be fine. Scotland is the only home nation with a positive balance of trade and that will grow as we add energy, oil and other areas reserved to Westminster. We have a huge whisky export trade which is growing as Asian countries are now able to afford luxuries. We build the most satellites in Europe and will be launching satellites from northern Scotland soon. Our water is clean and nationalised. Electrification of our railways is progressing and East coast line is next. All is good mate. England though....... they will be totally fucked without us 🤣🤣🤣
People's political affiliations, and especially positions on specific issues, shift as they get older. There's also no guarantee new generations will have the same political skew as the ones before them.
You don't have to take my word for it - left-leaning politics is almost universally more popular amongst younger people than older people, and has been probably for centuries. And yet the we aren't all living in ever-more-left-wing states. Why? Because affiliations drift.
@@merrymachiavelli2041 Older demographic is also moving to YES. Check Westminster's "State of the Union" paper. That is why no standing PM wants the break up of the Union on their historical CV. Starmer will deny Scotland just as voraciously as the Tories. They know they will lose this time.
I hate to break it to you but the reality of the Kingdom of Scotland being its own separate entity is over a millennia old and is far bigger than a single political party.
Scotland is not a kingdom.
The run down the SNP run down Scotland faction needs to understand this.
Irrelevant
The kingdom of Scotland hasn’t existed in nearly 320 years and polls show most Scots oppose leaving the UK
Scot's realise that they will never get independence unless they kick out the Tories 1st.
That wont make any difference. Getting rid of the incompetent SNP and replacing them with a party with an actual plan might help boost the numbers though.
that's ... not how that works , i like the spirit but no
no serious party would back a vote like that especially Britain's weakened state. - reform uk might simply to be accelerationist towards fascism
Best you could hope for is a constitutional reform to the union to improve everyone's better. simply put to be a patriot you need a country worth being proud off.
Proportional representation would get the whole UK out from under these fuckpigs
@@britishninjawhats ur defn of facism?
The full name of the Tory party is "The conservative and unionist party" because it believes in the UK as a union of countries.
So it's no surprise that they are for keeping the UK together.
i support Scottish independance, but as an Australian, the largest effect for me will be the flag changing, how would British colony flags change? the blue on our flag is kinda the biggest part of it
Get a new flag. Why would you want the butcher's apron on your flag?
@@charmainelamont2020 definitely, we need an iconic flag like NZ's black feather
I never understood why the SNP leader is not a Scottish man, but instead an unpopular immigrant
It's by design. If you want to kill a movement, install an unpopular leader with ridiculous policies.
Humzaa Yousaf was born in Rutherglen, Scotland in 1985, his parents might have been Pakistani immigrants, but he's still Scottish.
@indy-biker-stevie Yes he is Scottish on paper. But he is loyal to Pakistan and hates Scotland as well as it's people.
SNP are finished
11:36 dormant, not dorment
Ok boomer
@@aeris2001 ? he corrected a mistake
Shop, not Shoppe. Color not Colour. Fries not chips. Freedom not Kingdom. :P
@@ryancharles9559 I've never seen shoppe
Scotland blew their chance, SNP might as well shift their focus
More like UK blow chance for Scotland
its interesting to note that, Scotland and England have vastly different views when it comes to LEGAL migration, England hates both LEGAL and IILEGAL migration, which is rightfully so, because an island country like Great Britain cannot sustain such large levels of migration where land is extreamly limited. Scotland on the other hand, crying the rhotic "We need migration, Our population is declining!" without zero regards to how dangerous migration can be to a country.
yeah Scotland cry me a river, I couldn't care less, if you want indy and migration too, then England has no choice but to implement a hard border on you.
I see the psyop is working on you. Never mind the money that the Tories are looting, just look at four Albanians in a boat, they're the real threat to your way of life!
The SNP is only 1 part of the independence movement..... I know far more people that are pro independence now than in 2014!
A big part of it is division in the movement, as well as the Scots’ lack of national pride
Yeah I think that's what the debates within SNP showed, what Scotland actually means and what government would be formed after, with SNP being held together up with independence what would come after would be certainly interesting 🤔
War.@@Tyanus2
Lack of pride!? Expert on the Scots are you? Or just talking shite? 😂
Scot: "Do you know what the greatest threat to Scotland?"
Me: "...n..no?"
*Leans in closely*
Scot: "Scots"
Give the people what they want!
No to free school meals.
No to free bus travel for children.
No to the child payment scheme.
No to free childcare.
No to free prescriptions.
No to public owned rail.
No to NHS pay settlements.
Yes to student fees.
Yes to the bedroon tax.
Yes to period poverty
Give the people what they want!
Give them Unionism!
No to unfunded UK state pensions!
No to a central bank!
No to Scottish currency!
No to Edinburgh's financial sector!
No to free cross border trade with Scotland's biggest trading partner!
No to financial services protection agency!
Yes to responsible fiscal management.
No to buying votes with freebies that Scotland can't afford.
No to SNP corruption.
No to divisive fake grievance politics.
Give them Unionism!
Almost all of these things are devolved issues. There is nothing stopping Holyrood from addressing them.
Scotland doesn't really want Independence from the UK, they just want to never be subjected to the London focused Conservatives.
Are you aware that huge chunks of England also do not want that? Maybe everywhere outside the London Bubble should just all leave together,
The problem is. Polling is between 45-50% for independence.
Polling for the snp is well below that.
Sadly as a indy supporter who despises the SNP
The only way we’re gonna get independence is most likely through time.
70+% of our youth back indy. 60% of our people 25-40 support indy. Might be awhile though
It's not dead, it will have its moment
It had its moment, in 2014. The numbers simply don't add up (indeed, it would currently be catastrophic). Even the SNP are starting to realise that constant focus on constitutional shennanigans is becoming counter-productive. The only way forward for the SNP is to run the country successfully, to the point where things would be demonstrably better under indi than under the status quo. We are a long, long way from that right now.
People always bang on about "It's Scotland's oil" makes me laugh... London's financial sector has VASTLY disproportionately brought in money for all British people.. You never hear English people saying "It's services industry"
Except Scotland have a substantial service industry too. Glasgow and Edinburgh are the largest centres outside London. Additionally the wealth created in London doesn't reach the rest of England.
@duncmcinnes8569 are you seriously suggesting that an independent Scotland would be even remotely able to resist a war against the UK let alone win it lmao?
As someone from the Isles, I can guarantee you that if Scotland were to ever gain independence, we would seek independence from Scotland with the view to gain Crown Dependency status and follow in the footsteps of the Isle of Man.
There's already a consensus in the Isles for that to go ahead, and the overwhelming majority of the Scottish EEZ waters belong to the Isles, not to mainland Scotland.
Holyrood complains that it is ignored by Westminster, well people here feel very much the same with Holyrood because all of the attention goes into the central belt or pro-SNP places. Also, when the SNP stripped away funding from the isles just because they wouldn't get more votes here and did that as a punitive action - we haven't forgotten that.
@@e11-f2l I dunno mate, have you seen the British Armed Forces lately, pretty sorry state
@windrose5988 you need a saracasm detector, calm down
If Cameron nad allowed a federalist solution in the 2014 ballot all if this could have been avoided. But he wanted to crush the SNP and the independence movement. It backfield just as the Brexit vote did with UKIP.
@@stephjsinclairhas Starmer said he supports further devolution for the constituent countries or for all British regions, eg the North West or Yorkshire & the Humber?
@@stephjsinclairlabour are just tories with mob symbolism
@@stephjsinclair I thought Starmer was selling himself to his target voters as a staunch unionist, devolution was a big mistake type thing. Also he has done a 180 on so many things that I think we will all be able to go ice skating in Hell before Keir does anything to change the UK voting system.
(edited) Several points:
Even if Labour get a majority in Scotland they would still have to get a majority in the Senedd and Holyrood to be seen as the legitimate UK government.
Scottish Labour MPs would have no guarantee of freedom of conscience and commitment to their constituents as they have to follow the party whip.
The Lords plan won't work for Labour, it is designed to create a form of mini-devolution and deliberately fragment the UK.
The East Lothian question (Scottish votes on English laws), the Scottish legal system and the lack of an English parliament for English specific matters crop up here. There is also the matter of a slight ethnic difference much like with Czechia and Slovakia, whilst this might sound bizarre it does matter somewhat.
NATO wants the UK to continue existing, an independent Scotland would be seen as a sign of weakness to Russia/China even though Scotland would immediately join NATO.
The Barnett Formula would need to be radically revised to compensate the North-South divide, but this would be seen as deeply unpopular in Scotland because it's constitutional status would be changed and Scots would get significantly less in terms of spending.
HUMSA USLESS WHO VOTED HIM IN
I'm of Scottish ancestry. I wouldn't like to see Scotland become a trojan horse on the isles for EU. So I think UK should continue, and all the common heritage and history would come to an end. SCO and ENG have been together so long, changing it now doesn't seem necessary or the right thing to do.
They voted no. What do they want to do? Revote every 5 years till they get what they want? That sounds like a great idea for stability.
Be disastrous if we did that with the rest of governance, eh?
No, what we want is consistency. If a party stands on a manifesto and wins an election to give the people a vote on X, then the vote on X should happen because that’s what the people voted for. Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP had the biggest mandate in the United Kingdom and were told to shut up and get back in their box with the rest of Scotland. How is it fair that an entire nation is being held to ransom by another just because it’s too scared to go it alone themselves?
Actually that sounds like a fine example democracy to me. You yourself vote on the same old thing every few year in a general election. Why can't the Scots have the same level of democracy?
N Ireland can vote every seven years. Monumental change either England's brexit made 2014 vote void . Scots were actually told by staying in UK campaign that yo stay in EU meant not leaving UK .
@@FightingTorque411 voting for different (although in reality in the UK, usually quite similar) economic and social policies which still retain the same capitalist foundation established in earnest by Margaret Thatcher every few years is much less disruptive and uncertain for businesses and investors than a significant constitutional referendum every few years. If you don't believe me, one word, Brexit.
It's always fascinating to delve into discussions about political and historical topics, such as Scottish independence. The history and culture of Scotland are so rich and vibrant, and it's intriguing to see how these elements intertwine with contemporary politics. Regardless of the current status or future of Scottish independence, it's a topic that certainly sparks a lot of passionate conversation and brings to light the importance of understanding and respecting diverse perspectives. It's great to see people engaging with such significant and thought-provoking subjects! 🌍✨
It certainly does I know people who did speak to each other for years because of it
Good. I don’t want scottish independence while only the SNP are popular. it seems very risky to the development of an independent scotland to only have a one party state out of the gate. a diverse political landscape will ensure healthy competition and refinement of policy once it does arrive.
That’s not what happens. Sinn Fein haven’t held power in Ireland for more than a century despite being the party which was most associated with gaining independence. Very often the party which achieves it splits into other parties or whithers away.
The SNP would collapse in an independent Scotland, there's too many diverse groups that all vote for the SNP purely because they're the largest pro-indy party.
This video has been online for one day and already needs to be updated. Labour's branch office, Scottish Labour, aren't going to achieve any sort of landslide in Scotland given the past 48hrs.
Exactly I’m watching this like is this a repost 🤣🤣
Desperate unionist channel gathering ideas from comments.
Scottish Independence and the SNP are 2 different things.
So true...
Think they'll find the Labour resurgence just unionists moving from Tory to Labour. No right thinking independence supporter would vote Labour are the last referendum.
They’re really not!
@@SSMMTTEE
They really are
The SNP is a vehicle towards independence. And it's not the only one.
People who support independence, their belief in independence doesn't rely on how the SNP are doing, their belief in independence instead is based on what they think is in the best interests of Scotland as a country going forward.
The SNP will more than likely split post independence.
The independence movement is more than the SNP. It's likely innevitable Scotland will vote to go its own way at some stage relatively soon
yes
I doubt it. Westminister won't let it happen
@@Lando-kx6sounder the terms of the 1998 Scotland Act, which our devolved Parliament agreed too, the right to call a referendum belongs to the UK Government at Westminster which is supreme non reserved matters. The SNP must respect the law and give up their misguided attempt for a losers vote.
We can't keep having referendum after referendum until the governing body of Scotland gets the result is wants. That is not democracy.
@@Lando-kx6so Westminster doesn't have the final say. Demonstration of being a resource colony is there, an appeal to the UN for decolonisation is legitimate & given the political shackles Westminster has created at every opportunity, difficult for them to deny. Add the terms agreed with regard to the Good Friday agreement, there is an argument Scotland should also be afforded definable terms for holding a Referendum that eliminates the political whims of Westminster, opposition to such an approach can only be seen as undemocratic & another demonstration of Scotland's position in an abusive political relationship, you can leave, but only when I say so!
It’s adorable to watch a young Englishman suggest the Scots can be “placated”.
It's true though and easy enough.
Remember. You are here forever.
If a Labour government happens and they give more power to the scottish parliament, it could just make it that when the independence movement stops being dormant, they actually have enough power to push through an independence referendum
Exactly! Independence only became a possibility when they got the Parliament and even then it failed. Just leave it alone is my view. It is not like the Scottish can govern themselves either.
More power given by Labour government could mean less chance of independence because Scotland has more to lose. I.e loss of benefits, disproportionate tax from richer regions.
@@johnnotrealname8168- “it’s not like the Scottish can govern themselves either”?!
Sunak was the THIRD choice to be PM. His predecessor lasted 49 days but in that short time she managed to crash the economy, tank the pound, add £100’s pm to our mortgages and, according to the Governor of the Bank of England, our pensions were just hours from being wiped from existence. Her predecessor suggested we “let the virus run through the country”, “let the bodies pile high in their thousands”, while partying in No. 10, lying incessantly to the public, parliament and the Queen and making Downing Street the number 1 UK address for the most Covid lawbreakering. The very same PM who apparently got “Brexit done”. The only nation on the planet to impose economic sanctions upon ITSELF!
It’s patently evident that the English are incapable of governing themselves.
@@glasgovipsolara England somehow is still doing okay unlike the North. Get better politicians.
They wont.
"... Alive and Kicking..." nice wink to a great Scottish band 😉
Aren't simple minds northern Irish?
Naw 😉
This is a strange misconception. Support for independence doesnt decline because the SNP lose a majority.
he never said it did, he said SNP are the flag bearers for the movement and with them dead the movement has no political voice.
If the SNP lose many of their Westminster seats in 2024 and then also lose the Scottish Parliament elections in 2026 they'd not have a significant vehicle to push for an Independence referendum.
It's not a matter of support for independence declining, it's a matter of another referendum being politically unviable.
Unionists desperate for something to cheer about as independence support grows over 50%, they know they are sunk.
They never said that though
The SNP are not Scottish Independence. They’re simply the best chance of achieving it at the moment. You’re looking at this through the English personality politics lens. That’s not how Scots vote, we don’t look at what we consider to be side issues like Police investigations and politicians’ ethnicities. The independence movement took a heavy backward blow when Nicola Sturgeon proved that Scotland was not in a voluntary political union with the rest of the UK. That’s what harmed the cause, not overdue ferries/ potentially fraudulent accounting/ ill concieved recycling schemes etc etc, those of us with two brain cells to rub together know that all of that is just distraction it’s not the key problem the SNP have. We are waiting for Humza to come up with a solution to the problems with another referendum.
Who are you to speak on behalf of all Scots and how they vote? As if you have a clue.
"is Scottish independence dead? "
80% of young scots : am i a joke to you.
It is worth remembering that the elderly conservatives of today were once the radical youth of the hippie generation. People's views change with time, and people who emigrate to Scotland from other parts of the UK are also less likely to support independence.
@@FreyFox87 its also worth remembering that is an old study based on one article. you are pedalling. this generation has had more recessions the in their life time than their parents and grandparents combined, wages have been stagnant since about the 70s, price inflation is at its highest, cost of living in general also. no ones changing their views in their life time. that's clear as they know who are to blame. this generation is the internet generation they a vast wealth of knowledge and they dont get it from news papers and tv who tend to favour 2 parties. as for Scottish indy voters ive seen many change from no to yes, hardly ever seen a yes to no.
@@chosenundead6376 That's the company you keep. It's been nearly ten years since the indy ref - If none of these younger Scots were changing their minds then the polls would reflect this, and quite simply, they don't.
Too many rumours of corruption, progressive nonsense and pro Palestine rhetoric. Add to that the hopelessness expecting Scottish self-rule and you have a very unappealing electoral prospect. They will soon return to being a fringe movement and a wasted vote. Expect Labour to regain its dominance of Scottish politics this year.
"Oh no! He's against a genocide. He must be ousted"
We voted NO.
You might have but there’s a new generation that will now build the future for the aging population.
@@AntoniaXx. "Aging"
@@AntoniaXx.
Have you seen the polls?
Same
you have to keep in mind as well that this election will be filled with tactical voting in order to get the Tories out its not that labour are the good choice its that they are the only choice.
You have to remember that this is the current state of affairs before any such campaigning has begun. of course we learnt that the hard way from previous votes. I still think that Independence is a major issue behind the cost of living right now. I'm more annoyed at the fact we cant have a proper debate any more about the pros cons and possible options of independence. everything is framed under "No one wants the vote in the first place" vs " you had a vote in 2014". Independence is more than the SNP. There are many people from every part (Even conservative and labour) who would vote for it. Im getting pretty tired of the typically england based media players who are on the outside looking in and commeting on our behalf, you have no idea about whats going on "on the ground". The SNP have been hounded over the Covid enquiry and such when the Westmister lot were partying and stating let the bodies pile high.
Too late! A big pool of oil and gas between Scotland and Norway. Now Norway is rich and everyone has a fat pension. Scotland's share was whisked away by London and disappeared. Remember Brown's Bottom? What was that about? Too tricky for me, but someone got rich.
But but but England subsidies Scotland. Cool, 4 trillion in oil has flowed into Westminster
Work together - screw hatred and nationalism
I find it funny that people actually thought this was a possibility.
It can
@@Jayson_McFeely.Athletics It won't.
@@lennonkelly-james2693 no trust me it can and it will start back up its just a matter of time
@@Jayson_McFeely.Athletics Do you know why Scotland merged with England in the first place? It's because they failed to colonise and became broke. They are completely reliant on the rest of the UK, so wake up.
@@Jayson_McFeely.Athletics 61% of Scotland's exports come from the rest of the UK while only making 10% of it's overall income. They're not going anywhere.
Im scottish-anerican and id move to scotland if they became independent
Not Scottish enough
@@user-cj7xb2yp7d bud
@@user-cj7xb2yp7d 53% not enough?
@@user-cj7xb2yp7d 18% Northern Ireland?
Labour party would never be considered left by Latin American standards.
But they would by North American standards and no offence but Latin America is hardly an advert for good governance.
as they still support rejoining the EU they still have my vote
Union Scotland v's Scotland freedom! 62% Scotland 2016, NO??? Laugh! 78% vote Dec 2023, YES!!! Scottish people, YES!!! Imperial masters goodbye! :)
Source please, you’re pulling numbers out of your ass.
Lay off the propaganda buddy
Scotland did more imperialism per capita than England
Scotland Dec vote 78%, YES! Vote 2024, TREATY - void & null! Court! Goodbye lol :) @@UsuallyTrolling
Freedom! :) @@Finnbobjimbob
I’m of the opinion most recent polling put the SNP at 40 seats at the GE and support for Independence at 53%
Ignore the IPSOS polls. IPSOS inflates the SNP's popularity because it gets 5 million quid a year from the Scottish government to do all of its departmental polling. It's nothing more than a front for Angus Robertson's propaganda ministry.
Well that’s just incorrect, source please.
@@Finnbobjimbob It's from a crooked IPSOS poll.
IPSOS btw gets £5 million a year from the Scottish government to do all of its departmental polling so it inflates the SNP's popularity.
Yet more SNP corruption for you.
I keep posting my source but it keeps being removed 🤔
Just Google Ipsos SNP polling
I don't understand anything about Scotland, but normally, one of the main drivers are due to money.
Free Scotland!!!
I wish, they will be!!!
Greetz from Germany!!
As an Englishman living in Scotland, the idea of the SNP getting independence is terrifying to me. They've said countless times that they genuinely believe that the UK will continue to pay for Scottish pensions after they leave and that they wont have to take any debt with them, only agree to help the UK pay it off without the financial burden on themselves. The fact that they believe this worries me that they dont actually have a clue how to handle an independent Scotland.
Why wouldn't existing pensions, that have paid into the UK system, continue after a split exactly? New pensions, fair enough. But existing ones?
Don't worry and as I said earlier,the more English that.move up,less chance of independance!
@@MichaelGGarry it would make less sense for the UK to continue paying than Scotland to take over. Why should England Wales and Northern Ireland have to pay for Scottish pensions and Scotland themselves not have to contribute? That doesn't make sense. If Scotland wants to be independent then it needs to be fair, which means pay their own pensions and take their fair share of the debt.
@@garymacdonald7165 I'm an Englishman who has lived in Scotland before and would absolutely vote for independence. Screw Westminster and the self-serving vermin within.
@@damienreilly4347 Of course it makes sense for pensions that have already been paid into, either that or all the contributions, plus interest, need to be returned to the Scottish government.
Right now, Scottish voters may think Labour will make things work. Inevitably governments never deliver as much as their supporters want. Independence may be the only option if Scots wants a future.