How good is FRONTRUNNING after Wave 6? | Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ย. 2023
- Bagging got nerfed in Wave 6! Is frontrunning better now? How does it compare to bagging?
How to get Better at Mario Kart: • FULL Beginner Guide | ...
The final wave of the booster course pass just released, with new tracks, new shortcuts, and new characters. This is my first time using Funky Kong, Diddy Kong, Pauline, and Peachette online in worldwides. Playing on the courses Tour Rome Avanti, GCN DK Mountain, Wii Daisy Circuit, Piranha Plant Cove, Tour Madrid Drive, 3DS Rosalina's Ice World, SNES Bowser's Castle 3, and Wii Rainbow Road.
Bagging: waiting near last place for good items (bullet bill, shock/lightning, star, golden mushroom, mushrooms) and using them to make a comeback. This lets you get to 10 coins and stay away from attack items, and you can potentially dodge the shock or do item smuggling.
Running: actively trying to go forward and get to 1st place - เกม
![[TH] VCT Masters Shanghai Playoffs DAY 1 // 100T vs FUT | FNC vs GEN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/erQ7pGChzxA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[UNCUT] รัฐสั่งหยุดปล่อยคลื่น! แต่หยุดพลังปะทุ “น้องหญิง” ไม่ได้ I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RmQh47eIiV0/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Shortcat Were You Always a fan of Bagging when you first started playing Mario Kart or you just like to frontrun the tracks as you play?
I hated bagging with a passion. I would frontrun the whole race and then get destroyed (on some tracks). Then i started paying attention. The person who could beat me in frontrunning on hyrule circuit was the same person who bagged and got 1st on cheese land.
Once i realized it wasnt actually luck, i tried it out. I was SO BAD at bagging, literally couldnt get better than 5th. The more i learned about it, the more i realized i just didnt like it because i didnt understand it. I thought it was different people getting lucky each time, but it was actually the same skilled players beating me with multiple strategies.
@@Shortcat321wow u used to be a twitter user...
Nah its one thing to hate the viability of bagging, we've all been there. Its another thing to bully others for bagging.
But using twitter??? I could never 💀💀
@@Shortcat321I don’t eant to ruin ur disguise but HELLO J PERM U TAUGHT ME HOW TO CUBE THXXXXX
I find Bagging really fun honestly. It's just fun getting decent items rather than coins
i just frontran to the comment section
Same!
Me too
BLUE SHELL
Who doesnt
the only time when a "first" is funny
I like how Nintendo handled the bagging nerf. Rear position comeback play still seems viable, but the most "degenerate" or "unintended" aspects, repeatedly driving into boxes cycling items, has been removed. Personally I think it makes bagging a little more exciting, because there's that extra bit of pressure to keep moving and make your comeback.
Yeah i agree. At first i felt like its a bad bagging nerf because bagging still works just fine. But now i appreciate that its just a way to make bagging and competitive play look less degenerate. Love or hate bagging, this is a good change
@@Shortcat321 Actually, this is a good way of looking at it - it changes how bagging is perceived, and affects the game's public perception, which you said is a real sticking point you have with bagging's presence in MK8DX.
That said, I have had a couple times where I genuinely just drove badly and stopped before items, or where I got hit by lightning just after a set (both in positions near the back) and the nerf now makes getting reasonable items impossible in those cases. Sure, they're edge cases, but both happened to me fairly naturally.
@@Shortcat321Also I think this nerf actually makes itel strategy even more important with bagging.
This might not make a difference for those that are really good at bagging, but I think it prevents people from just bagging without putting any thought in it.
Because before the nerf if you got an item that you didnt like you could just throw it away and drive into the item set again.
That way you had to way less careful with item usage, while now if you use an item to early instead of holding it for shortcuts for instace increases the danger of getting a bad item without being able to rectofy the situation by just cycling through items at an item set.
Deciding when to chain, use and hold has become way more important which I like a lot because to me that is what makes bagging interesting in terms of game mechanics.
@@klop4228 I mean, that just sounds like an exciting new way to get karted. Yeah it sucks when you're the one getting karted, but it's also kinda what separates Mario Kart from other racing games like F-Zero.
Honestly, I believe that Nintendo's solution to bagging is actually pretty elegant. I think most people dislike bagging because seeing people stop in the middle of races and wait at item sets isn't exactly their idea of a racing game. However, "bagging" where you take worse lines in order to pick up more coins or take alternate paths that are slower but have coins or items while still moving forward on the track is perfectly fine, since you're still going forwards at the very least. In fact, I'm not completely sure yet, but I feel like this change could make a lot of the "useless" alternate paths (like the underwater section on daisy cruiser) a far more appealing choice which would be cool to see. You could drop to a lower position while remaining safe and farming coins, while keeping the most exciting part of bagging where you make the comeback intact.
They could have also taken away the distance base item for 1st through 4th and 9th through 12th so you always try to stay in the middle or change the percentage and the way the coin works and make it way more rare because it’s useless
14:20
I think nerfing bagging deliberately without affecting those that are genuinely struggling in a race, as Nintendo seemed to aim for, was the right move. It discourages playing poorly on purpose but still gives a chance for people that are worse/unlucky
Shortcat has made me return to mario kart after 4 years and the past few months have been so fun!
Yea sure buddy
You maybe arent lying but i aint buyin it
Glad to hear you’re having fun!
@@Kakkemansim not lying but believe what you want to believe
@@Bryan-yf5yqthanks
They made nerfing bagging about making people move forward and actually try to race, not about removing the possibility of using good items at the back to get to the front, and I think that's perfect
9:17 diddybuggy is undoubtedly an awesome name for that combo
12:00 - 12:35 let's just say on a bike, peachettes hitbox gets nerfed.
Edit: nerfed meaning it’s easier to get hit
Its pretty evident that she gets a buff on bikes and atvs. Pretty big actually 🤤
Nah I think her hitbox on a bike should be twice as big, if you know what I mean
@@unbound195 but that's just what they're saying
@@imagebear8916 I added more, and let me just say she should be Bowser heavy. 4.7
hm. are you talking about her ahh?
something i feel like no one talks about is how much the idea of "driving badly on purpose" actually changed with the optics vs reality. stopping at an item set is definitely "driving badly on purpose" and looks horrible to the average person, but on the other hand you're still trying to take good lines when you actually are driving and the bagging part is more like a pause in your "normal" driving, but now that you can't bag that way it seems like the ideal way to stay in the back of the pack when bagging is just taking worse lines on purpose, which is just as much "driving badly on purpose" if not moreso than stopping at item sets. whether the improvement in optics is a big enough to outweigh that depends on your viewpoint i guess.
what i really wish they did was make being in the middle of the pack less of a death sentence, that way you'd be much less incentivized to bag every time you got hit and the binary of bagging and frontrunning was less prominent in favor of just playing the game "normally". often in worldwides i get in rooms where a few of the players in the room are enough better than me that i can't really frontrun reasonably, but because being in the middle is so terrible it feels like i'm forced to bag if i want to get a decent position. the middle of the pack attack items in this game are just way too hard to avoid and punishing to get hit by and i'm pretty bummed that they didn't do a single thing to fix that with all of their balance changes.
Yeah id love for a nerf to attack items, or a decrease in probability. I wonder if they didnt want to affect the normal gameplay too much.
@@Shortcat321 i think they just want mario kart to be really chaotic, and that certainly accomplishes that. that race in the other video where you dodged an entire fire flower just to get hit anyway really shows how impossible it is to avoid getting hit in the middle of the pack. maybe making it so getting hit by certain items only makes you lose one coin, or not completely lose all of your speed like with bananas in double dash would be ways they could fix it, but i'm not sure they even know it's a problem, let alone want to fix it
@@Magnemite_ I've thought about something similar, having spin-out items (except for shock perhaps) not cause you to drop coins. I think your idea of losing 1 coin is better though
Wait when you put bagging like that it sounds like basically Mario Kart 7 Bagging
...hey this is basically Mario Kart 7 Bagging
"Saying that you're just bagging or just front running means you're probably not a good player", _Shortcat says in the video where he is only frontrunning._
I think Nintendo handled bagging pretty well. Focusing on stopping and reversing. Think it getting tweaked for single or double item boxes pulls
"spoilers for Infinity War" was legitimately the funniest thing edit ever
I didn't get it
It was fr
Hi Shortcat! I’ve been enjoying your content for a while now and I would really look forward to a video where you rank all the tracks. It would be fun to see your point of view about what tracks are the most fun, best looks and have the most fun strats. Either way, I wish you the best of luck!
Great idea, that'd be awesome to see!
Ive been planning on this! I still need to get to know the wave 6 tracks better, and lose the "new track" bias before ranking them.
@@Shortcat321Yessss!!!! I'm very looking forward to that holy
@@Shortcat321i love how you respond to your comments man. appreciate u for the good content
To answer that question 20:22, I believe it's neither of the options and rather watch a player that can adapt their way of playing the game during a race. It's just really interesting to see a sudden change of playstyle midrace that will help you reach better spots if not 1st place.
Landship + Wood tires is a slick looking combo. I’ve always liked using it with Baby Luigi, but now I’m intrigued with trying Diddy on it…
"hey bb"
"was that your greenshell bb"
- Shortcat
The part about peachette on a bike killed me 😂😂
Facts
Still dont get it
@@lukesmith943 It's because shes in a tight jumpsuit and you get a rear view and people are weird 😭😭
Reminded me of Rod's recent Peachette video where he kept talking about how he had to keep his eyes up lol
I get it, I just don't agree. I'm sticking with Daisy.
After 1 year not playing the game, I discovered your videos and started playing again. You're a funny guy and nice listening to - and your expertise of the game helps me improve!
The argument of frontrunning vs bagging is like punching a brick wall, just do what you wanna do!
Hi shortcat! i love your videos and always look forward to them :) i would love to see a video where u rank the tracks/make a tier list of the tracks that u think are the most fun to play/looks the best etc
i'm just watching the funny mario kart man and he hits me with the "peachette on a bike" gem, immediately followed up with a quick lesson on confirmation bias when watching bagging content on youtube wtf?!
My guy thanks for all the videos you make, they are really entertaining. I don't even have a Switch nor Mario Kart, but i still watch all your videos, keep them comin'
Your vids are a godsend. Theres so many shortcuts in this game I did not know existed.
i love this channel, its like an old school youtube video, just people good at their games playing and making fun with their coments (not while making stream, that ruins all the autencity of someone playing and making something autentic for a youtube video), btw love you shortcat, keep making this type of content
Dude im just now learning about competitive mario kart and i have to say! You are so knowledgeable and entertaining! I think ill stick around for a bit!
Congrats on 200K! Huge fan of your great content🎉🎉
20:31 that touches on why I dislike bagging in general yes its very fun to see big comebacks and clutch plays but its also very annoying (to me personally) to be doing well in a race and then just get destroyed by rng cause someone pulled good items. Im aware its a skill issue on my part (at least a fair amount of it is) I'm not good at this game but bagging and broken items has let me get solid placements in races I had no business placing well in.
"frontrunning is broken." you mean playing the game?
I love when the commentary is just about the current game, like discussing what plays were smart or bad
20:14 I feel like there was no warning for the red shell because you intercepted a red shell that was targeting the peachette
A Shortcat video is the best way to recover from getting my wisdom teeth removed! 😁
Congratulations!
Hope your teeth are okay. I always cheer myself up with a good ol watch of Shortcat
Congrats!
Why are you congratulating? 💀💀💀💀
Hey Shortcat, thanks for teaching me so much about this game over the past months. Speaking of teaching, I think it would be cool if you had some sort of coaching course where people could pay to get coaching from you or something.
For as much as yoshi teddy buggy is still good, it's nice to see a bit more variety with the DLC stuff lately. Also keep it up shortcat watching your vids has catapulted me to 13k vr
Good video! I was an anti-bagger initially when I didn't understand it, but warmed up to it as I learned that it is a perfectly viable strategy on certain tracks. Honestly, this latest bag nerf is a bit overexaggerated.
Even after the update, I still bag on tracks like Mario Circuit 3, Cheese Land, Yoshi's Circuit, Dry Dry Desert, and GBA Mario Circuit. You just can't camp at item boxes which isn't a huge deal anyways. I find frontrunning much more fun, but I do agree that bagging is helpful to know if you happen to fall behind the pack. Making a huge comeback is always an amazing feeling!
When I played with four people recently I was seeing some pretty crazy item pulls. There were several first place triple mushrooms, golden mushrooms, and even bullets. I also pulled a coin in last multiple times.
Hi shortcat Ur videos always make my day !! Can u maybe do a frozen challenge? With only like christmasy related charcters on ice tracks? :D
There are no christmas themed characters in the game. And if he were to only show off races on ice tracks he would have to record hours of video material given that they make up only a small percentage out of all the tracks and thus show up pretty rarely.
I meant like ice charcters like Rosalina or using black yoshi or shy guy to be penguins and like play with friends or fans
@@daire-eo4kk Rosalina is not an ice character. Her theme is space and stars and in Mario Galaxy (where she originated) there was no Rosalina's ice world. Any planet would fit her theme, so her "planet track" being an ice planet does not say much. As for the penguins there are already the real ones in snow land and black yoshi (being a dinosaur) would look pretty weird next to them.
shortcat: “only bagging = bad player, pick the right option for your scenario”
also shortcat with 20 videos on bagging only:
That was my bad player era
@@Shortcat321 😯 Is sweat cat going to not only make a return, but also a long stay!? *Hype
I always wondered if theres a tierlist somewhere in which tracks are better to frontrun or bag. Or somewhere in between
He's already posted a few videos about it. Not particularly as "top tracks to frontrun/bag" but he has already mentioned a few of them
I think a more competitive player than myself would be able to make this. I know the top frontrunning and bagging tracks but i couldnt rank the stuff in the middle. But basically just count the shortcuts that you need a speed item for. More/bigger shortcuts = better bagging track.
From what I observed people definitely like bagging when they do it themselves, but give it hate when a bagger causes them to get mario karted
I always felt this too. but after i learned this game more i realized most of my "get mario karted" moments were on snes mario circuit 3, mario kart stadium, and riverside park. Then it all made sense and i stopped frontrunning those tracks.
I think bagging tracks as a concept is weird, but once you understand it you can stop blaming the baggers and start taking control of your own fate.
Finally someone from Cyprus, my country, in your videos! :')
I think that was also beautiful to see people stopping in boxes to take good items. I would probably buff frontrunning by adding the chance to receive single mushroom in first place. That would give u the chance of mantain your lead but do not making it impossible for bagging players ;P
I think the way nintendo handled the bagging changes was actually really good. It basically made it so you cant intentionally bag as easily, but it still allows for comebacks, which is honestly the best of both worlds.
I do however wish that cheese land wasn't an option in higher level play
Something I've found that makes the half pipe boost mostly consistent for me on Wii Rainbow Road, I aim for the top left corner of the blue panel. Still practicing getting it consistent, but every time I get a good alignment I get the boost, so could be useful in practicing learning it. =P
In wave 6 basically you can frontrun or backrun.
You keep going forward and depending on your position you can comeback.
I actually enjoyed bagging but I understand nintendo's decision
Imagine that....being in first place in a racing game is a good strategy. Thanks for that genius advice.
Congrats for 200k shortcat 🎉
*Shortcat:* “Bagging is pure skill and I’m never front running again”
*Also Shortcat:*
10:19 love the Yoshi and Teddy Buggy are just in the map, what a coincidence
I think the thing that makes bagging look good is when everyone else *isn't* bagging. It's easy to like it when everyone else is "honorably" racing. But when it becomes the meta, and like half the group is still at the first item block line it's just like 😐. It's really cool to learn that it can be used strategically, and I think having maps that make bagging harder tosses up the game.
I personally love bagging and the EPIC comebacks! But if they were going to need it I’m glad that it was in a way that encourages moving forward.
That spoilers for infinity war got me. Actually laughing out loud it was out of nowhere hahaha.
in my opinion, in a racing game people shouldn't be stopping for items, but if i could remove bagging i would just so i could make the bagging tracks not so miserable to front run, but at the end of the day a comeback is a comeback and it's so hype
I love how both frontrunning vids have had a rivalry with some black Yoshi or Birdo (Also, could you please upload a bit on your J perm channel? I love how you are into this channel and it’s great that you are sharing your passions, but many of us cubers are awaiting the return of J perm❤)
the video ive been waiting for !
Congrats on 200k
I kinda want to see more of the "how good is X combo" series. I would really like to see your thoughts on the Golden combo and also stuff like "max anti gravity" and "max water speed."
Shortcat never fails to bring a great vid
It always a good day when there is a shortcat video
love your vids and I want to see your mii and mrscooty again:]. it brings back memories. also nice job at 20000vr. i only have 3000 vr.
Hi Shortcat, i've been watching your content for many months now (super entertaining and your personality is awesome LOL) but to answer your bagging being nerfed question... In a way i think it was needed (i don't play mario kart and never have, but i'm an Alicia Online player that has been in the magic side of the game, which is basically mario kart), before bagging in AO was nerfed, people would just sit behind on purpose and grab the best items and make comebacks, just like in MK ! Since it's been nerfed, you rarely actually get comeback items and more often you end up with defense items. The thing about AO is that besides the item boxes, the player just gains gauge that goes towards getting an item (i suggest looking up gameplay) so you don't have to rely on boxes always (and from this you can actually get more comeback items! i have no idea how this game works n ive played it for 7 years) . I think it's a complicated question, cus i understand why they nerfed it, but i mean... it's so fun lol
This rivalry with BB is just legendary
Fun fact: Roy Catcruiser has almost thesame stats as Funky Scooty, but with 1 more speed and 1 less acceleration. It's my favorite combo right now because of how it looks. Roy fits the cat cruiser so well.
Man Ur so underrated,u should have atleast 1.5 mil subs
14:20
I don’t really play online but I think the way they did it was really good. You can still bag but you can’t just stay there and wait for a shock which I felt like was the worst part of bagging.Also your bagging was the reason I started to play Mario kart again so I’m biased.
Hey, Love the video! Random question but what controller do you use/recommend for this game?
Hi shortcat, quick question:
Will you be making a video ranking all 96 tracks now that wave 6 is out?
Great video!
I always had Mario Kart 8 but never played it until I found your videos
12:00 to 12:35 I freaking can't dude.... I can't stop laughing it's sooo.... HHAHAHAHA
Not funny
bro i knew that was the reason for peacette i just needed to hear it from you LOL
I want to see a full bagging video with the new nerf! I want to be able to see how big a difference it made.
I actually really like the pipe frame for Funky Kong, it has the same speed and mini turbo as Teddy buggy, but more acceleration, traction, handling and invincibility
Da king is back baby he neva miss
Hi J perm, hope you're doing well. Just asking do you plan to upload any cubing contents again soon ? I would appreciate if you do
12:28 Look man... peachette got on them space channel 5s im weak
Hey Shortcat! When front running, would you recommend speed over acceleration, acceleration over speed, or a balance between those two?
Yayyyy another shortcat video 🎉🎉🎉
I really loved using mr scooty, rosalina and the small red tire shortcat is using in this video back when i played mario kart 8 for the wii u. Is it a good vombo after wave 6? I havent played mk8 deluxe , and i would like to know if thats a good combo or if its so bad that i should try another one
12:11 bro just explained every single kart combo i've used since i bought this game
Bro said baggingers 😂😂 7:37
keep up the good work :>
Bagging nerfs HAHA
@@Shortcat321 OHHHHH I GUESS IM JUST DEAF XD
Shortcat speaking facts here 12:19 lol
I really like how nintendo dealed with bagging because it doesn't stop cool comebacks but nerfs staying in the same place trying to get a good item.
That Birdo must’ve had to give his little sibling the controller for that last race, he was so far behind.
Hey Shortcat, a few days ago i noticed that on Rosalinas Ice World, you could get onto the ice on lap 2 and 3 shroomless with the help of the halfpipes. Is it even faster? And if yes: what is the most efficient way to do it?
I would *love* to hear an answer from you ❤
Tecnico
I'd never actually thought about how I would nerf Bagging but I feel like I wouldn't have came up with the single Banana or Green Shell in 12th idea.
Also 16:13 was great.
With this new update, my favorite combo is Koopa, biddy buggy with rollers and cloud glider. It has amazing mini turbo and it’s all around cute.
Yeah I'm actually glad that bagging was nerfed in Wave 6, as cool as those comebacks were on paper, and as many views as they typically got, slowing down in the middle of a race to win was kind of lame to watch, even if it was necessary in that case to win. Speaking personally.
I like the way they nerfed it, you can’t camp at items sets(but bagging is still somewhat viable) and I’ve head races in cheese land, mc3, and other similar tracks post wave 6 where there isn’t much bs things that happen, and now more people are playing the game the way it was intended
I don't really play this game, does the minimap always start set off when you go online or does it depend on how you have it set before. Nice video btw I love watching your vids and decision making process on the fly from race to race
It's whatever you set it as. I had it turned off when making a short video and forgot to turn it back on!
I was hoping the booster course passes were going to add a few new karts, I really miss the barrel train kart that was in 7 and double dash.
I appreciate the changes. I always wnat comebacks to be possible (and I value item-use skill), but I don't like people stopping or going backwards. At the end of the day I do like to unwind and enjoy a bit ya kno and frontrunning is more relaxing to me even when i get mario-karted lol :-)
What is everyone’s teir list for wave 6 track and/or characters
I think nintendo didn’t really nerfed bagging, they just made it harder because you cannot stop to chain items, which i think is a clever approach because you got to balance the competitive but still make the five year old playing with his family win with a bullet and golden mushroom so that he doesn’t cry. I would have personally nerfed bagging online where the total wr of the room is very high, by making the better items more rare, but this is just my take on it.
hearing the "try using peachette on a bike" comment hurts me physically as someone who does indeed use peachette on a bike
Average mario kart player moment
@@Shortcat321i didnt know she was viable until very recently its not my fault i swear
Weirdo
22:53 You were thinking about the Landship, the 50th best kart in the game!!! Also I always thought the Prancer had like wooden horses, but in any case the wooden tires fit since its a carriage
Seems like bagging is still a viable option if you're put in that situation, but you have to be savvy about it. Stay close enough to the pack but don't cross too many places until the time is just right. That makes MK8 bagging akin to bagging strategies in MK64, and much more interesting to see.
As a lightweight player, most the time i opt to stay behind the pack once i get hit out to avoid getting hit and collect coins because having 10 coins with 1 speed isnt as slow as you think, along side that getting bumped off the map. I always decide to catch up when the opportunity is available, mostly mid lap 2 and it works out for me mostly all the time. Idk if that makes me a bad player or not but i rather keep myself safe than sorry
We need a Mii suit video now!
Personally I think that the best way to nerf bagging would have been to change the items that you get in the top spots. Like adding a small chance of getting a mushroom in first and triple mushrooms in 2nd and 3rd. Even though I don't like the way Nintendo nerfed bagging It is good to see them responding to their community.