Mario and Luigi CAN'T REPLACE Paper Mario
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2016
- Now that we know for sure why Nintendo gutted one of our favorite series, let's take this opportunity to explore why the decision wasn't a good one--why simply "going and playing Mario and Luigi" isn't a satisfactory solution.
I really didn't want to do a followup to "The Problem With Paper Mario," and in fact I didn't think this was going to be one, but I think that might just be what happened.
Click right on over here to see my first video on the subject:
• The Problem With Paper...
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"We didnt like Paper Mario because it was Paper Mario, we liked it because it was MARIO STORY"
.....I am so going to requote this.
Yup, my heart sank when Miamoto said in the interview for sticker star that not many people cared about the story, clearly he was asking the wrong people or those who didn't play Mario's story. I mean he was doing a poll about super paper Mario which had a lot more backlash for being a platformer with a story and elements fit for an rpg, would annoy people looking for a simple platformer and make those who wanted a new ttyd hate the game.
Well it's so true I've said this from the start when I saw colour splash lol I'm like they obviously just made this based of sticker star....sticker star was made for a stupid little paper gimmick not the story....and by the title of this game I could tell nintendo once again made it for a stupid little paper gimmick...which isn't why we like the series and it was only ever paper because the games were based of the story books we would get read to us at the start and basically the whole game is us playing through that true story that already happened...the first 3 games got it right but these last two are barely even good mario games let alone good paper Mario games....they don't even come close to the first 3....sorry for the rant it's hard not to rant😂
Not just that, but they thought a survey everybody rushed through to get Coins is reliable.
+Ryan S. The survey seems wrong in so many ways
"Mario Story" IS, after all, the Japanese name of Paper Mario 64.
Comparing Paper Mario to Mario & Luigi is like comparing a Yoshi Platformer to a Donkey Kong Country platformer. Yeah, they're the same genre, but they are FAR from being at a point where they clash interests with each other and nullify each other. This is not an excuse.
I know this is old lol...but theres also the fact that Mario and luigi was always on handheld consoles and made for those devices...while paper Mario was made for the bigger consoles
@Brandon Gonzalez yes...unfortunately that exists.
@@slenderfoxx3797 What about the Switch? That has a PM game coming and if they release an M&L game then what does that mean?
@@stpidstuff Alpha Dream is gone. But yea, there is still Square and Intelligent Systems. We have a new Paper Mario, but I'm still not so sure about Mario & Luigi. I would love to see what could happen.. But after seeing the pattern that is messing up Mario for good, I don't think I want to know.
@@oimenamesrick yeah, Alphdream is bankrupt. Found out a few months after it happened, and I cried, because Alphadream makes amazing games and it's just sad that they're bankrupt. Hey, Nintendo could hire some of the people that worked on M&L.
So having 2 different RPG series is too much but having a million different sports series is fine?
I would compare more to their large number of party games. Mario Party, Animal Crossing amiibo party, Wii Party, Wii Play, Nintendo Land, etc.
Glad to hear someone knows how silly this reasoning is without having to do an in-depth analysis.
Ah, but those aren't all about Mario are they?
+Tom Holmes Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Baseball, Mario Strikers, Mario Hoops, Mario Sports Mix, and a million Olympic games which are half Mario.
Those are all different sports though, it wouldn't make sense for Nintendo to stop making Mario Golf and say "if you want a Mario golf game, play Mario Tennis." I actually went looking on the Mario Wiki to see what Mario spinoff series got games since 2007 (when Super Paper Mario came out), and I think the only time there were overlaps in sports was with Sports Mix coming out and duplicating sports with the Olympic games. But even then, the Olympics only happen every other year and alternate between winter and summer, and Sports Mix never developed into an actual series, so there isn't really any redundancy there.
There was ONE point you came up with that struck a nerve with me. "Seriousness is not allowed in a M&L game". DUDE. I've played through partners in time at least 5 times, and I can tell you that it is not all whacky fun times and silliness!
As well as this, I would say that the most serious and emotional game in the paper mario series is Super Paper Mario, and that follows almost none of the first 2 games gameplay wise
I played it 7 times
I played both 7 times. And have one more card to get in SPM. And I had the game since 2010. 😄 And I got to level 45 in PiT. And I memorize the OSTs. *pencil drop*
Honestly I feel like each mario and luigi has a point near the end where the game starts being serious and dire. The exception is partners in time where the entire game is serious and dire.
Also fawful sometimes
Yeah and Dream’s deep. That LITERALLY shows luigi’s fear of being forgotten by the one person that knows he exists
I really hate the overemphasis of the Paper aesthetic in Sticker Star and Color Splash it's pretty much the extent of the humor or themes in these games, they just make jokes about how they're made of Paper. The whole paper aesthetic was just a visual representation of what the worlds were, the overall elements within the paper world got more attention to detail. We didn't like the partners, story or worlds because they were paper, but what they did to impact us.
But now you can't go through a Paper Mario game without having dialogue or writing constantly reference they're crumbling or made of paper.
Yes, thank you!! This is the perfect comment! The original purpose of the paper art style was to reflect the fact the games are essential stories told from story books. It complements the themes of the games, but it WASN'T the theme of the games. Now, that has all been ruined!
+I'mReallyBadAtThinkingOfUsernames:D essentially*
Finally!! The Graphics are well made, but they're in the wrong game!
What's worse is they aren't made of paper in the first three games. In the first three games they are the regular flesh and blood Mario characters from the regular 3D games just in a 2D sprite applied to 3D model art style. The games even have several continuity ties which canon confirm they exist in the same universe as the 3D games yet Paper Jam places Sticker Star and this new game inside a book world made of actual paper and it suuuccckkksss. Get rid of the paper from paper mario. It's meant to be Mario Story, no paper in it at all aside from slight jokes via in story explained reasons like curses that actually turn you into paper for a short while.
They weren't told from Storybooks though. None of them existed within a story book as shown by continuity ties to the 3D games via Luigi's Diary and several other things. The storybooks were just introductions for us the player, not the world actually existing inside of a storybook or being made of actual paper.
"if there's anything that's not allowed in a mario and luigi game, it's any amount of seriousness."
...I heard that Partners in Time was pretty damned dark for a Mario game, comparable to Super Paper Mario.
That was sorta like a Tim Burton film: dark, but silly.
It had its dark moments, but they were still no where near as dark as SPM's, which was largely dark overall and had much higher stakes which made it all the more so. TTYD had more darker moments, in my opinion.
Partners in Time was indeed the darkest of the (then-three) Mario & Luigi titles, but gameplay-wise, it felt like the weakest.
Sure "Partners in Time " was dark, and i really enjoied the game, but "Super Paper Mario" was way darker and disturving
Let's Compare
PIT: aliens that only want Death and Destruction, babies figthing for the fate of the future, Time Travell paradox, Toads begin drained down of their energy, an alien Princess turning into a huge Monster with tentacles
SPM: A man that only sees the world as cruel and wants to destroy it because his family didn't want him to be with the woman he loved, a little girl that turns into a creepy Robot-Spider that chases and tries to murder you, you litteraly go to hell, you see a World getting destroyed and transformed into "The World of Nothing"
So Yeah, both games are really dark and serious, sure there were Funny moments, but the games were mainly dark and serioius
+Roman Eizui If we had to choose the darkest games of the two series i would choose
M&L
1-PiT
2-BiS
3-SS
4-DT
PM
1-SPM
2-TTYD
3-PM
4 Draw between SS and CS
I mean, someway, the Mario RPG games are always more mature and interesting than the original series
Claiming that Nintendo shouldn't have two Mario RPG series, as Ms. Tabata suggests, is the equivalent of Square Enix announcing they don't need two flagship RPGs, so they turn Dragon Quest into an action game featuring dragons.
I don't think I've been so infiruated at something a Nintendo rep said, ever.
+Minene Uryuu922 Nope, that can't happen because Paper Mario is oh let's see. Made of actual paper which leads to waaay too many opportunities.
Ironically I think theyd actually gut FF and have DQ stay the same. FF has already had plenty of experimentation, and Dragon Quest gets the same treatment with a different skin on each console but I love it.
I don't know much about the Square Enix RPGs, but I don't recall seeing the same protagonist (or universe) in two different Square Enix RPG franchises...
except these are just spin off...lol
Nintendo : We have 2 RPGs, better axe one of them so the IPs can be more unique.
Literally has 3 or more franchises that are 2d sidescrollers.
even worse, like 4 party game franchises and multiple Mario sport franchises
And they just announced another one, Pikmin sidescroller.
Hypocrites.
Oh the future of the series depends on another paper mechanic? Here's one for you, you pick up a pen and write a PAPER check to some writers, who will then use pen and PAPER to write a compelling narrative. Layers upon layers of paper mechanics going on.
This was brilliant. Thank you for this. :)
And give the designers a pen to draw interesting new characters on PAPER.
Wulbulbul Lubbubwublub After that, the artists can draw the designs for interesting new chapter locations....ON PAPER! I think we've hit the jackpot guys.
These comments are amazing😄 you should get a pen a write these down...on paper😁 (idk😂 there's a dumb "joke")
Miyamoto HATES stories in games, so not happening. Now gimmicks on the other hand... All over those!
"Go play Mario and Luigi"
Alphadream: *DIES*
"Fuck"
"Hey guys, classic Paper Mario came back, so-"
I’m guessing Arlo never played Partners in Time, that shit’s dark
To those saying we should all speak with our wallets and not buy Color Splash, well, there's this problem Nintendo has had for a while now that I call the "Other M Syndrome". They make an iteration of a beloved series that guts everything fans loved about that series in the first place, and then when nobody buys this gutted new iteration, they say "Oh ok, so you guys don't like that series anymore. We'll just stop making those". This was the fate of Metroid and, if Color Splash doesn't sell, will be the fate of Paper Mario as well. When fans "speak with their wallets", Nintendo prefers to just abandon a franchise rather than fix the problems with it.
All of this comes from Nintendo being a company that is very old-fashioned about how they listen to fan feedback, which is to say, they almost never do. Modern-day game developers have their own web forums, they look at Reddit, they just *communicate* with their playerbases. Nintendo, on the other hand, seems to be stuck in the 90s when none of that stuff existed. Unfortunately their business isn't going to tank because of it, because they still have unparalleled skill in marketing to a 5-13 demographic that isn't really conscious of the benefits of that kind of communication, either. Twentysomethings like myself, Arlo, and possibly you - the types who want more story in their Mario - will have to look elsewhere.
Very well put. I've been considering making a video about the whole Nintendo/vote-with-your-wallet conundrum.
But here's the thing if we be out spoken enough to actually get the TTYD remake out and confirm it buy the hell outta that and they'll see that compared to the sells of color splash maybe they'll notice?
Its better not to buy it. Its already suffering, might as well take it out.
Mm-hmm, it's quite the Catch-22. To an extent it makes sense for a company to base decisions on their sales numbers, but it's a problem if they can't *interpret* those numbers to figure out what the fans are really trying to say.
We ask TTYD remake, buy it...dont buy color splash, and done...they will analise the issue and see what we want maybe because nintendo is a stubborn mess these days
Paper mario has became gimmick mario. Such a fall from grace.
Maybe it'll be like Kirby and be a "teenage phase" of gimmicks. We can only hope.
What do you mean? HAL is just being creative while also keep the main series intact. Or are you talking about Air ride? There was a main series game on handheld I believe.
but the thing with the Kirby franchise is that it always has plenty of traditional games as well, so that fans are always satistfied. Even so, his gimmicks are awesome.
Nintendo has become gimmicktendo. Such a fall from grace.
no, air ride was Gamecube...I think. you know what I loved with the gimmicks? Epic Yarn :D
If they don't want Paper Mario to be an RPG, then DON'T HAVE TURN BASED BATTLES IN THEM!
Yeah that is one of the things that bothers me... If they want the series to remove the RPG element, why the hell is there still turn based battles?
>THIS RIGHT HERE
The battles aren't even fun, they are friggin' tacky and boring- and not to mention that since theres literally no reward to beating enemies, its just a detriment
It is probably because of Super Paper Mario. That game had an amazing story worthy of the "Paper Mario" title, the game has amazing characters and the 2D-3D flipping mechanic was BRILLIANT. But people didn't like the lack of turn based battles or real partners. As of such, Nintendo was probably like "You don't like not having turn based battles in an rpg? Then lets make it not an rpg and add back in turn based battles." That. DOESN'T WORK!
Actually I'd love to see a fan mod or something that basically remade Super Paper Mario and added the pixies as party members with their own moves and what not, and reworked it to make it turn based.
That's what irritates me the most. It's like they're trying to appease fans of the original two games by slapping in turn based battles. It's like they're totally aware of the backlash and simply don't care about what their fans are saying.
Swooplind There is a reward in Color Splash (no, it's not just coins and bits of paint)
THANK YOU FOR ADDRESSING THE WHOLE PAPER ASPECT.
Paper Mario was a lot better when they rarely or never acknowledged that the characters were made of paper.
Also, the whole idea was that there were 2D characters in a 3D world. The worlds were never made of paper.
Yeah it only looked paper because the game was us playing through the event that happened in the story book already...all this waking toads heads and getting them folded or bent and the white outlines etc....it's just too much paper nonsense a little less and then things would be better....everything else would still be broken though....
The Paper aspect in Thousand year door was beautiful because it was subtle yet achieving what with having the ability to turn into a paper airplane and fly across one point to the other or become a paper boat and swim around- and all while being in the overworld so the battle system stayed on the action and whatnot with no more acknowledgement of them being paper at all- it was just amazing
I agree.
Yeah, I agree. I don't play Paper Mario for the "paper" feel. I play it because I like the gameplay and story. Nice to see Nintendo taking that Electronic Arts attitude of "we don't care about our fans". Perhaps that's why they're losing cash? Nah.
I'll be honest I'll prefer the Mario & Luigi Series than the Paper Mario series because I listened the Mario Luigi series that didn't take out the fighting mechanic or the characters like Paper Mario
Yep the series actually refined its mechanics with each entry whereas PM had an identity crisis after TTYD.
@@montecristosmith2343 But I think we can forgive Super Paper Mario (which makes sense because it takes place in another dimension). At least Merlon was there from the first 2 games. And we had one last good story after TTYD
I don't know. I loved Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story, but I think my love for the first three Paper Mario games outshines my M & L love. I'll happily play through Sticker Star and Color Splash if it means that I can keep 64, TTYD, and Super.
@@oimenamesrick The gameplay is controversial, but there's no denying the characters, story, world building, dialouge, soundtrack and such are all top notch and arguably better than the first two games. It still feels like Paper Mario.
The only thing SS, CS, and OK have going for them from what I've seen is their soundtracks. Maybe the humor at points too. But otherwise, they're completely different games compared to the OG trio.
@@jacobflowers0529 sorry I know this is late. But I honestly love the gameplay from the new paper Mario games but to be honest is should of been a whole new franchise like maybe paper Zelda. And then keep the paper Mario games as turned based rpgs. Best of both worlds😎
everyone forgets about Super Paper Mario ;-;.
(which btw is an amazing game)
Super Paper Mario may have been a good game, but it started the downward trend of everything being focused on paper. Look at all the unique character of the first 2 games. Goombella, Vivian, Grodus, Rawk Hawk, etc. Those are all characters that I can imagine outside of a paper world. In fact, I'd really like to see those characters in other mario games, not just paper mario games. In Super Paper Mario, all the unique characters were designed with paper in mind. I cannot imagine them outside of a paper world; they would look weird and unnatural.
Jonah DeWitt but imo the gameplay of super paper mario is better than the other paper mario games
Stafford Williams The first 2 games and Super Paper Mario are completely different genres. The first 2 are turn-based and Super is a platformer. They're not comparable in the slightest. If you like Super's gameplay better, than you just prefer platformers. Nothing wrong with that.
+Jonah DeWitt To be fair, SPM's setting is far removed from the Mushroom Kingdom and Mushroom World…taking place in different worlds and dimensions altogether. Also, SPM didn't start the paper trend; TTYD had Mario fold himself like origami into shapes and forms to access different areas called "Paper Abilities" which were introduced in that game.
HorakhtytheCreator The paper abilities were clearly supposed to be unnatural, as they were 'curses,' and nothing else in the game made reference to the fact that they were paper.
Arlo please DON'T BUY COLOR SPLASH, you don't have to review that fucking abomination, no one's asking you to.
He could get a used copy
perhaps, that'd be for the best since he wouldn't be adding another sale to Nintendo's counter. And he could have even more basis to bash this insulting piece of crap...
gamefly.
Oh look a guy from the future who already played the game
Look! Someone who doesn't understand the point of trailers and analyzing promotional materials and interviews to evaluate a product! So far Color Splash has not only shown it doesn't care about being an actual Paper Mario game, but the producer of the game's even making resentful comments to the fanbase to 'go play other games'.
Am I the only person who doesn't really like the hardcore paper look in Color Splash? I definitely prefer the storybook style.
Same.
Agreed! 100%
No, you aren't. I prefer the "storybook" style but I like the paper style too.
@2026: Sebastian Barron Terceros And I respect yours :)
_M&L_ may not be a replacement, but i still prefer it over _Paper Mario_. And honestly, grouping in _Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story_ in with the other _M&L_ games and saying it too isn't serious isn't what i'd call fair. But hey, that's your opinion i guess.
>cue the internet trolls
Even this is an old comment, I agree IMO. Paper Mario has like half of the games good, while all Mario & Luigi games are amazing (without counting the remakes and Paper Jam Bros, which was good... but just good). The characters are also amazing in these games, they also introduced a lot of new species and in (almost) every game they introduced new enemies. The story is from good, from starting slow-paced from just rescuing Peach to save the entire kingdom or World, or travelling to the past to save the future, etc. (all of these same as Paper Mario, except for PiT, if I remember correctly...), but these games... I don't know how to explain it, but they have a better charm than Paper Mario that I don't understand. Maybe it's the amazing music, the aesthetic, the villians, I don't know, I don't know...
I don't say that the Paper Mario games are bad, of course not, they are amazing! (Except for SS, CS, and possibly ToK). But hey, this is my opinion and there are people that can disagree with me or just simply insulting me a childish person or a braindead (believe me, this happend once to me, but it was also my fault for entering an endless and infinite fight, and it's still going).
the M&L series gave character and life to the denizens of the mushroom kingdom. How these characters were handled, seriously makes them the best iterations we've had of these characters
Apples and oranges. PM feels like an actual story that can take place on the Mario universe. M&L is surreal and wacky. I personally love them both in their own way.
Speaking of Paper Mario, Nintendo "apparently" wants to know if fans are interested in remasters for fan-favorite games like Paper Mario 64 and Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door.
Nintendo: Always asking the obvious questions, yet ignores them (and their fans, too) to focus on putting more gimmicks in their beloved side series.
why not! I didn't really play the first two, only watched let's plays.
NewWorldPeacebone
Yep. Seems like they're heading to the direction of where Sega is.
Master Vidxad 58 Nah man, at least Nintendo......
I actually don't really have anything to protect Nintendo from reaching Sega status at this point tbh.
NewWorldPeacebone
Well...at least Nintendo has Zelda, right? Right?!?! #RiPNintendoSortOf
Can't help but notice that Arlo claims the M&L series is silliness without substance and avoids using any footage from Superstar Saga whatsoever... Most of the points made against the series only apply to the more recent Paper Jam and Dream Team. Arlo, if you really haven't played Superstar Saga you absolutely need to. It's one of thr best games in the GBA.
That game is definitely closest to Paper Mario than any of them, though I feel my arguments still apply to it. In truth I was just too lazy to dig around for footage from it that I could use, haha.
Nah. It just applies to Paper Jam.
+Arlo I hate Thousand Year Door, I hate its story and it did not feel like a grandiose adventure it felt like a boring grind fest and it just kept dragging on and on.
The Adventure in Thousand year door as at least more creative than most Mario games.
+Arlo I love hearing your opinions and views, you should make more videos! :)
Everyone, contact Nintendo in some way and say "We don't like Paper Mario because it's Paper Mario. We like Paper Mario because it's Mario STORY!"
Mr. Endie any letters you send are just going to end up in a trash bin. same with emails but in a digital trash bin.
This is exactly what I felt. I played TTYD in one sitting, and it still remains my favorite to this day.
I loved it because of how diverse the world and characters were, and the range of emotions I felt that I didn't expect to feel.
Remember the bittersweet scene involving Scarlet's letter?
Or getting pumped up to get shot to the moon?
The overwhelming narm when the crystal stars transmit the hopes during the final battle?
The sadness of learning a single mother turned into a pig?
The "actual story" behind Luigi's adventures that were funny enough to keep you hooked?
The beauty of that final sunrise, after the final boss?
The awkwardness when you learned you technically controlled a naked peach?
The anger when you had to find General White?
That feeling of dread when the thousand year door finally opens?
The shock of seeing a noose in a Mario game?
The betrayal you felt when Mario's identity was stolen and you fought your companions?
Fun is great, but it shouldn't be the only focus.
Exactly!
+Sebastian Ramirez Same, The first game I played was SPM and it blew me away with the amazing story, new and interesting worlds, and that twist at the end that I certainly never saw coming. It had me sold on the entire franchise at that point.
I agree, but in one sitting? wtf that game is like 50 hours
One sitting?
I love SPM's story, it is the best story in the Paper Mario series, very deep and something that would NOT fit in a Mario Luigi game.
Why don't you like dream team? That game was so creative! And it DID have an interesting plot and funny characters, plus a cool villain with a history.
Paper jam on the other hand..... Does not even compare to it in terms of plot and characters.... -_-
Yeah but compared to Bowser's Inside Story, it was missing something. Then in Paper Jam, it lost even more "pizazz."
+GameBoyJr Concluded Missing what? It didn't miss anything.
+JReview that's...... Not how it works with him
Well it was missing the playable Bowser, Bowser became the big baddie again even when the last game sort of made it a joke that he always lost anyway, and it was missing the ability to skip all the tutorials.
+GameBoyJr Concluded and what do you think that "pizazz" was?
Sadly, I have come to believe that the whole *paper aesthetic* has within itself lead to the *downfall* of the series. Paper Mario within itself due to the paper world has made it an easier target for Nintendo to separate and subsequently differentiate its two Mario RPGs. Mario and Luigi need the RPG elements, the series wouldn't really work well without* it. I don't think it's so much an issue of the stories, but which one is easier to change. The Mario and Luigi series have a number of games with great stories. It appears to be quite clear since Super Paper Mario (which had a great story) and especially since Sticker Star Nintendo has been more interested in creating a story around the "paper itself," which is why in more recent series the world has been drawing more attention to the fact that it is made out of paper. This seems to be why they have created these weird battle systems and got rid of partners because they had to in order to create the paper-based battle systems in which they have now. To have partners that also need stickers and cards would be too hard to manage, and Nintendo doesn't want it to feel like an RPG so they don't want to have these battle systems similar to their other Mario RPG. So, with a broken heart, I must say that it appears that because Paper Mario is in fact just that, "Paper Mario;" Nintendo is trying to force it into another direction based on the fact that they don't want two Mario RPGs and it's the easier of the two to change.
TLDR: Mario and Luigi need the RPG elements so Nintendo is making Paper Mario a series that is more invested in bringing attention to the fact that it's made out of paper to differentiate the two because it was an easier target...
I never really thought about it like that, but that's actually a really good point. It makes sense, that's exactly what they been doing. Drawing attention to the paper, and moving it away from the RPG. Sometimes they can preserve the story like in Super Paper Mario, but when I jumped back into the turn base battle system it was extremely uncomfortable. Even more uncomfortable to know that management wanted them to make it less like an RPG... It's really upsetting.
Yep that's exactly what's happening the first 3 were paper because the game was you playing through the story in the story book that was a true story that already happened...now it's just that oh imagine everything was paper in new super mario bros just because...like wtf and it's just so uncreative and all these thing stickers aren't even paper idek what they are there for and why we need a random thing card to beat the bosses in one hit...also why does only mario need stickers and in this case cards to battle and Collect this paint stars (shine sprites) like is mario not capable of jumping without these flipping magic cards but everyone else can attack normal....ughhh smh😩
Yet they ignore that Paper Mario is by far the more beloved series...
There was never supposed to be a paper aesthetic in the first place. The first three games take place within the normal Mushroom Kingdom 3D world that have continuity ties to the main 3D games and vice versa. Nothing in those games ever implied that the world and characters were actually literally made of paper and nothing implied they existed within a pocket dimension book world. I hate the new paper aesthetic because it's not how the series is supposed to be or look. It was always just meant to be 2D sprites on 3D character models, nothing more, nothing less. The paper thing was added only for the English versions of Paper Mario 1 therefore showing that it was never intended to be about paper or even have paper in it at all as it was just Mario Story.
I hate Paper Jam for basically creating a second universe where there's a literal paper world that the recent games (Sticker Star because of its art style and paper jokes along with Color Splash) exist in because it confuses so many people and makes them think that the first three games exist in that world as well when they objectively don't because of the canon continuity ties the first three games to the main series via references thus proving that they take place in the same universe as the 3D games and that it was just sprites, not a world made of paper.
Super doesn't have a paper world in it though, it is a pixel fully flat literal 2D dimension between the dimension of the normal 3D Mushroom Kingdom world, the residents aren't made of paper, they just live in a literal 2D perspective because their universe is in between a normal universe.
I sincerely hope that after Color Splash fails (we all know it will) they go back to what made Paper Mario beloved in every aspect and that includes the art style and world it takes place in because I will not stand for having people mistake Paper Jam's bad writing as evidence of them taking place in a book world when nothing in the games suggests that they do and everything proves that they don't.
The paper isn't strictly needed, but is a wonderful asthetic/mechanic nonetheless. I can't image TTYD without the plane/boat/rolled-up Mario.
Arlo: "M&L is game that you can easily play without thinking too hard"
Me: (plays video of Cackletta fight) 😑
P.s. Just pointing that out, no hostility towards Arlo
Also he should shut up and play the hard mode of dream team
Cackletta, the Shroobs, the Dark Star, Antasma, and Paper Bowser: *ARE WE A JOKE TO YOU?*
He said the fights were way more intense in m&l games
@@barkn9643 uhh even thats incorrect tho
@@weegeewegee639 eh...is it? which games are generally more difficult?
Regarding comments that M&L is indeed capable of seriousness, we're just going to have to disagree on this one. Some parts are relatively grim and dark, but I personally never feel like it's "serious." It always feels like the zaniness is lying just beneath the surface, waiting to sproing up in my face again. There's also the fact that since I'm not as emotionally invested in the characters or other NPC's in those games, it's not as impactful when stuff happens to them. It's just the way I feel when I play them; the world needs to have a level of reality to it for me to care, and M&L just doesn't offer that in my eyes.
Also the number of people who think I hate M&L because I said it was DIFFERENT makes me really sad. Putting words in peoples' mouths and jumping to conclusions are the cause of like, 90% of internet arguments.
personally I thought your message was really clear. I can totally see what's deprived of the newer paper mario games.
I guess a lot comes taste; I tried The Thousand Year Door and it was too slow for me, in combat and story. I enjoyed it, but I only played it twice. The characters were amazing though, with their own abilities and personalities.
*Massive facepalm*
The Grimdark in Mario and Luigi is actually part of the "humour" in Mario and Luigi.
If anything, Grimdark is more of a comedic element when it gets including than any sign of adult themes or a serious story. Like how it works with Warhammer 40K.
Some people confuse it for adult elements--but usually they are the sort of people that think having large bouncy boobs makes something more "mature"... and they are true for what rating the game gets, it generally is more just a rather immature element to add (not that this is bad... but you just have to understand it as immature for it to be good).
I like Mario&Luigi and Paper Mario a lot. I like Mario&Luigi bit more but I like still Paper Mario. Mario&Luigi series story is very simple but can have some very great moments and it can dark in some points too like the aliens, Bowser being a caring father, and the dramatic music.It's just like the Kirby series the Kirby series has a very simple story and happy music too but it can be very dark at some points. Example like Zero bleeding eye, the soul fights, boss death screams, and Haltmann trying to bring back his dead daughter with a evil machine.
Hello. Just a reminder. Game companies listen to their wallets, not their fans. Give Paper Mario a peaceful death by not buying Color Splash.
We might never get another Paper Mario but at least we will never get another sticker star.
We an still have fan games.
Jesus Lopez I respect the people making them, however none will be as refined as a first party Nintendo release.
Bobber WCC Of course they will not be as great as the original paper mario games but they'll be good at least.
+Jesus Lopez unless a bunch of fans making the games team up together and know how to program....I have a great idea for how the colour sucking thing could be added into a story...but it's just a gimmick
Yeah Kill off the franchise before it's dragged through the mud any further. It's so sad what has happened :(
Sometimes I wonder if the SS/CS team even played the previous games.
Sticker Star was super faithful and close to Thousand Year Door until Miyamoto cane along and told them to go in the opposite direction
+Austin Taylor Ah, okay. I've heard similar stories with other games, so that explains it.
To be honest, I'm okay with Sticker start being the way it is... as a handheld game. For that game, I can agree with Mr. Miyamoto, but when it comes to Home Consoles, however, Paper Mario games need to be more about the story, characters, world building, etc all on top of the awesome timed-hits battle style that we all know and love from as far back as Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. *sigh*
On another note, I wish they would hurry up and put TTYD on the virtual console. I wanna toss my money at them to get that since my Gamecube copy died from over-use. QQ
Miyamoto did the exact same thing with Star Fox Adventures. That game was going to be a new IP but he decided it would make a good Star Fox game instead
Still fill sorry for all the dead Toads
I know this is an older video, but I just wanna say I 100% agree that M&L and Paper Mario aren't the same at all and especially agree that M&L shouldn't replace paper Mario. Not to mention that paper Mario shouldn't replace Mario and Luigi either now that its future is uncertain with AlphaDream gone.
HOWEVER
I think your view on the Mario and Luigi series is completely wrong.
You said, and I quote: "Your partners are characters! They've got unique personalities and comment on what's going on in the story! It's so much fun to befriend residents of the mushroom Kingdom that were previously enemies or that we've never even seen before! Speaking of the Mushroom Kingdom and its residents the first two paper Mario games build an interesting and cohesive world. They had towns they felt lived in and real. Mario and Luigi is not interested in doing that, and you know what, that actually works great for those games. What's this? A beach with teeth and cavities. Oké. People with blockheads? Alright, sure. The kingdom is always different and pretty random and weird. That's fun in its own way, but it's obviously just not the same."
That's not the Mario and Luigi games I remember. They had towns as well, they felt lived in. First let's take the first entry, Superstar Saga. There were places like Hoohoo village with the Hammerhead Bros and Blablanadon. Little Fungitown with Psycho Kamek. The Studio of Harhall. The Castle Town, University, S.S. Chuckola and that's not even all.
Partners in Time had Hollijolli village, Yoshi island etc all with tons of creative characters. A Koopa who's a journalist, E. Gadd when he was younger, the Shroobs, basically Santa, do I need to go on?
Bowser Inside Story, sure had mostly familiar locations (amongst some creative sections in between) but we got to explore it in a way previously unseen. There was Bowser's Castle when it wasn't being used as peach her prison, it looked maybe even more joyful than peach castle ever did. Toad Town felt really lived in with houses shopping areas a town's square and underneath an entire sewer system. There was even a doctor's clinic with Doctor Toadley. Most toad's had interesting designs different from the regular toad that seems to be the standard nowadays, sure that sadly changed for the remakes, but that's going on with Paper Mario as well. And this is probably the perfect time to mention Fawful and Midbus, two amazing characters, on of which basically build up over 3 games. And then there's the "People with Blockheads" Alright, sure. However that's just one of those previously mentioned "residents of the mushroom Kingdom that had previously been enemies or which we've never seen before" you praised for being in paper Mario. I mean toads aren't just simply people with mushroom heads either right? Admiral Bobbery isn't just simply a bomb person with captain hat, right? These are fully fleshed out characters who help you progress through the story and comment on it. Sure they aren't partners who help you in battle and progress through the world, instead we get special powers or items from them which serve the exact same function. We only don't see their character on screen during battle. However, in the blockhead person his case, who is btw named Broque Monsieur, we even get his pet dog who actually does appear in battle. Kinda a lot to just wash off like just a "random and fun" thing. It's literally the characters and residents you praised in paper Mario.
Dream Team takes place on a vacation resort, kinda like Mario sunshine did. Sure not many towns, but tons of areas which serve the exact same function. They're just a little bit more interesting looking. But change the sprites and name and you basically got tons of towns. The locations are also way more interactive than ever before. And again there are tons of new characters to meet, befriend and learn about. That again they are block shaped and even pillow shaped does not change a thing.
There is sadly one exception to the Mario and Luigi games, paper jam. Which sadly also meant the beginning of the end for the series. The locations were bland and there was not a single new character. It appears the series had the same faith as paper Mario.
You also mentioned: "if there's one thing that's not allowed in any Mario and Luigi game it's any amount of seriousness."
This just sounds like someone who has never fully played through the games. Sure these games are wacky and funny and outrageous, but which Mario game isn't? Sure these might take the crown, especially the early ones with many of the names literally being puns on laughing, but it can be serious as well. Especially in the final (pun intended). The heroes having to go through the worst chapter in their lives ones again in partners in time. Toads being sucked dry and basically becoming one with the trees. Bowser losing his own memory and being used by multiple people. The cruel things that happened to the beanbean royal family. Fawful showing how far he is willing to go to achieve his goals, giving his own life. His fall into madness over the course of three games. Toad Families living in fear of a decease that deforms them, children having to watch their parents being taken by it. No hope for a cure as the ones they've depended on for their entire lives have gone missing. A single Goomba willing to step up for what he believes in after seeing everything he worked for being destroyed from the inside, inspiring others in the process. Luigi being to scared after years of standing in his brothers shadow to do anything on his own, that when his brother is in mortal danger he has to be convinced he is his brother as that's the only way he can ever trust in himself. These games can get very serious.
In the end there are only two differences between the series, although major. These being the gameplay and the partners. But the world, story and the characters are not on that list. Sure the characters and towns are used in a different way, but they're just as lively and fleshed out as in Paper Mario. M&L does have dept, it can be sad, it can be epic. You have to think a lot about how you jump into battles (literally). Paper Mario really isn't that different with it's battles (well depending on the game of course, but you appear to be focusing mostly on the first 2 maybe 3 games which felt really similar in the battles. Paper Mario even felt somewhat easy to me at times, that I had to put it down for the day because it got kinda boring and repetitive after a while. Still a fun game, but if m&l can be called a game you can jump in without thinking too much, so can paper Mario. (Well, they are still a Mario titles after all).
Both Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario are amazing series with beautiful stories, worthy of the rpg genre. While they have many differences, story and character is not one of them. But unlike what Nintendo thinks, that does not mean on can replace the other.
The thing everyone has overlooked is the fact that Color Splash started development _right after_ Sticker Star, so Sticker Star feedback wouldn't change the outcome very much development-wise for Color Splash. It's like how Mario 3D World was developed right after 3D Land, and we have since been told the next Mario will be different. What no one understands is that IT IS POSSIBLE to make a Paper Mario game like the originals but still keep the gimmicky paper aesthetic. But, of course, it's always easier to be edgy and pessimistic instead of keeping an open mind instead of nitpicking _every_ detail...
They said in a recent interview that they want to keep the Paper Mario series in the direction they're going.
Well, it depends on what its "direction" means. They definitely confirmed they'll have to think of new paper ideas, but that doesn't necessarily mean the battle system will be the newer one or the level design will be like a level. Again, I'm trying to keep an open mind about this. If this game sells poorly (and it will regardless of how good it is), it would be wise to appeal to the fans with maybe an HD remaster, since there are rumors about that. Then again, "Nintendo never listens to their fans!11!!!1!" /sarcasm
EpicJackman I certainly have not stopped caring, and I still see some of the good things in Color Splash, but I'm not denying the fact that it's possible to not get the game we ask for.
I feel you, and I'm glad that you still care about it. I mean, Mario Party fans are getting a different game, but it's being received surprisingly well, so maybe Color Splash will be a pleasant surprise.
EpicJackman So far, based on e3 gameplay, it looks better than Sticker Star at least. It's not really that great, but it's an improvement and there's more things I like about it than number of things I like about Sticker Star.
It definitely can’t now.
Yes it can, Nintendo fully owns the M&L series now.
@Fury of Fawful Nintendo always owned the Mario and Luigi series, they just had AlphaDream develop it. And if Origami King blows, we probably won't have a good Mario RPG for a long time.
@@TRQDude Either way, Mario and Luigi games can still be made. And just because Origami King blows, I doubt it will affect the motivation for the Mario and Luigi series, especially since Paper Mario isn't even an RPG series anymore. I wouldn't be upset if Origami King fails because the developers should already know what the fans want, yet they continue to create new paper gimmicks and just completely ignore what we want.
Personally, I prefer the combat system of the Mario & Luigi series.
I don't know, Mario and Luigi could get pretty serious when it wanted to.
Paper Mario needs to be good rpg with a good story, likable playable characters and fun gameplay
"That's not what you want, you want paper" -Nintendo
+SylvesterrSan basically.
You want paper Gimmicks
And no paper.
But it's haaaaarrrrrrrrd.
You’re right they can’t, because Mario & Luigi is now more dead than paper Mario
only because alpha dream went bankrupt beside that their games were consistently good
Paper Mario for those who are not happy with the new games are practically dead too -- it feels like 2 different game series sharing a name now anyway.
When gamexplain mentioned it I lieterally said "So arlo was right, that's the most unfortunate "I was right ever." He's gonna hate this."
They should really bring back the director of the first 3 Paper Mario - Ryota Kawade.
You know what else sucks? Mario & Luigi has started to get dumbed down as well. I miss Paper Mario as much as the next guy, but it really stinks that both of the Mario RPGs are taking a turn for the "Younger Audience". I'm playing Paper Jam now, and though I am having fun with combat, there is a LOT of tutorializing, hand holding, and simplifying of the plot. Mario & Luigi can't replace Paper Mario for a number of reasons, but especially not in the direction it's going.
I actually quit Dream Team for that same reason! The combat and boss fights were probably the best in the entire series, but travelling was unbelievably boring because the game barely had clever writing or worldbuilding. There's only so many times I can hear "BEEF! BODYBUILDING!" before I go mad. And Antasma was severely underused; in fact I think the game outright ignored him for huge chunks at a time.
Hey Pieguy
RapDog62 Actually to me Dream Team was one of the better ones in the series
PIEGUYRULZ The tutorials are NOTHING compared to previous games! And even by itself, 90% of the tutorials are optional. Are we playing the same game?
I actually preferred colour splash over paper mario 64. Yeah.
There was a time where the M&L series could compete with Paper Mario... Superstar Saga, Partners in Time, were great, But Bowser's inside Story... OMG, it was Outstanding.... But, Ya know, back to Dream Team and Paper Jam... Dream Team was cool, but... We saw the plot was getting a bit Lifeless . . . Theeeeeen, Paper Jam...... Well, the plot is... Uhmmm... Well, let's say Paper mario brought the plot with him.
Paperjam is a crossover and therefor a spin-off. It's not supposed to be taken like the 5th M&L game.
It's as much the 5th M&L game as Color Splash is the 5th Paper Mario game.
Take that as you will.
Yeah Paper Mario is there but he doesn't bring out enough for it to not be the 5th game with M&L gameplay, which it is. So it may as well be the 5th M&L game regardless.
+Lulink they never really said that though, and it played mostly like a M&L game, so it basically is the 5th one. Dream Team had dreams, Paper Jam had Paper Mario.
Acually the japanese name doesn't mention the game as the "5"th one like the 4 others
I didn’t play too far into paper jam, but I remember two things bothering me.
For one thing, someone actually calls Luigi useless. The Luigi torture really gets old and that just goes too far.
A Toad stopped me to tell me that the arrow on the map shows where to go next. *A TUTORIAL TUTORIAL*
Whelp, it's not gonna replace Paper Mario anymore.
Technically it still can, since Nintendo now fully owns the M&L series.
Fury of Fawful I swear if the next Mario and Luigi game ends up having no plot or any interesting characters I’m gonna cry.
@@seniorshrek6197 Same, I just hope Nintendo hires employees from AlphaDream to work on the next M&L game.
Fury of Fawful that’s a possibility.
@@seniorshrek6197 Admittedly I liked Paper Jam despite the fact that it had no original characters since it was clearly supposed to be a one-time thing, unlike Stinker Star and onwards. I also liked seeing the Paper counterpart interactions with the normal characters. And as a bonus, I really liked the combat.
I disagree with your comments on Mario and Luigi never being serious. The final battle against the Elder shroob princess was grander than any fight in Paper Mario. After defeating the shroob princess, her sister wants revenge and tries to kill both brothers. She uses her own minions as kamikaze to beat the bros. Not to mention the music. Plus, the stakes in Inside Bowser story where really high. I feel like you ignored the huge amount of world building in Superstar Saga. The fist paper Mario's story was just as basic as any other Mario game, just with wackier characters around it to hide how basic it was. I love both franchises but I feel like you dismissing Mario and Luigi so hard just to prove your point isn't fair.
While I do agree that the Elder Shroob Princess was a very serious moment, and that _some_ moments of M&L series can be very serious, I don't think the ESP boss fight was grander than the Shadow Queen fight from TTYD. In fact, I consider both to be on the same level of intensity.
Shadow queen...
Spoilers!!!
Shadow queen
-Eats the audiance
-1 shots the boss you took 2 tries to kill 40 mins ago
-possessed pincess peach's body
-wants to rule to world
-tries to eat your soul using at least 500 demon hands because you didn't become her SLAVE (one of her normal attack...)
I have no real point since I only played 1 M&L game but I think he did not mean to completely dismiss the games as completely not serious and worse then Paper Mario but rather was just attempting to highlight the differences which ended up sounding like he was saying negative things even though he wasn't.
The stakes in super paper Mario were probably the highest in any Mario game ever. If I remember correctly, wasn't the entire universe being devour by a black hole.
I don't like how you compared a sequel to a starting point for a series. Remember that Paper Mario N64 was the first Mario RPG made without SquareEnix so they had to start safe. Also, arguably I can say Super Paper Mario was WAY more climactic. I'm sure the Elder Princess Shroob would at least have spared hell and heaven from destruction.
"Mario and Luigi CAN'T REPLACE Paper Mario"
... And Paper Mario can't replace Mario and Luigi neither. (RIP Alphadream)
I was just about bring up Alphadream running out of business.
I forgot how much I absolutely love the Mario and Luigi series, time to go replay
I respect your opinion Arlo, but you're wrong on the "Mario and Luigi can't be serious" comment. M and L has amazing character development and tone, I don't see how you could make that comment.
Because he's an ignorant fuck.
I also was wondering when he said "Mario & Luigi cannot be serious" but it is true they do have a slapstick, more comedic leaning than Paper Mario, even though it does have its serious moments, as seen with Partners in Time and Bowser's Inside Story.
Harman Smith calm down
I mean when was paper mario 64 ever serious?
Color Splash isn't going to be a bad game, it's just not going to be the game Arlo or others, including myself, want.
It's been 12 years now and as Arlo said in his first video, it's time to give up hoping on the true Paper Mario RPG. I'm not going to switch to Mario & Luigi because it's not what I've known for 15 years like Paper Mario, so in that Nintendo loses money, but I'm also not going to support this new concept of Paper Mario, which also loses Nintendo money.
Would someone care to tell Nintendo their decisions are not leading me to giving them my money?
If Sticker Star was a shit game, then so can Color Splash
Ryan S.
Well Ryan, I didn't say Sticker Star was a shit game because it's not a shit game, it's not a great game, it's just a game.
All in all, Color Splash looks like a visually impressive Mario title and it shows a lot of creativity, but if fails to display creativity in other areas, notably it's story and setting.
It's going to get mediocre and *apologetically* positive reviews, just like Federation Force and Star Fox Zero. Mark my words!
Mario & Luigi > Paper Mario
Fight me
The only reason people talk about paper Mario more is because of how infamous SS and CS were.
Welp, now we only have paper mario
I highly doubt that Nintendo isn’t willing to loan Alpha Dream money with the billions of dollars that Nintendo has.
@@seniorshrek6197 nintendo never did it before, Rare made them bank and they let them die
I agree entirely. Mario & Luigi can't replace Paper Mario just like how Paper Mario can't replace Mario & Luigi. Even if Paper Jam came really close to combining both styles of battle systems with the Battle Cards, Paper Mario is unique enough to justify it's existence as an RPG.
The strategy from M&L comes from how you balance the combination of Mario & Luigi, how you affect their stats and special bonuses from leveling up. Would you make Mario super strong, but with a limited defense stat but also make Luigi the wall that could take all the pain? Would you make Luigi focus on his mustache so that he will land all of the lucky hits? It all comes down to how you mix both of the Bros.
Paper Mario is completely different. It comes down to how you manage your HP, FP and BP, but also what partners work with certain strategies. The game is so open to creativity when it comes to this aspects that a "Danger Mario" run is possible (5 HP, with a lot of badges that allow you to update your stats while you have 5 HP) or hell, even level 1 Mario (upgrading your BP every time you level up, but you never equip any badges that require BP). All of this is what made Paper Mario the great series that it used to be for the first two games, and that alone should be enough to keep it around. And yet, the series gives you even more with fantastic stories and characters.
Both series have their strengths in their combat system, characters and stories. M&L can also be dark like Paper Mario, but it always keeps it on a silly tone, full of slapstick jokes and dialogue. Paper Mario also has jokes, but tends to keep it on just text. All in all, this is just Intelligent Systems being lazy and saying that they can't compete with M&L and thus, turned to make something easier and dumbed down.
I just don't find it to be fair. Intelligent Systems is throwing AlphaDream under the bus, putting all of the pressure on delivering a good Mario RPG on them, expecting that the Paper Mario fans will find the same exact enjoyment on M&L than they did with Paper Mario, which of course they won't. It's just not fair to AlphaDream, the M&L series, the Paper Mario series and the fans.
Finally, please do not purchase Color Splash on release. Show them that you still care to give input on their choices and decisions made for the series, without actually supporting them. I'm sure most of us can wait a few days, perhaps even months to get your thoughts on the game, as long as you don't actually support the bad practices.
I agree, and hell, Color Splash is Literally Sticker Star 2, who the hell wants that
Swooplind
13 year olds who get extremely mad at you when you tell them that this is Sticker Star 2, or that are unable to find arguments defend the game so they resolve to insults. Trust me, I've met them.
DarkK~ Jesus christ I feel bad that you had to go through that
Swooplind
Eh, it was no biggie. It saddens me that there's people who will support Sticker Star 2, hopefully it won't be enough to even break even.
DarkK~ Amen
It's not like it's even difficult to add a paint gimmick to TTYD's overall style. Here's how you do it:
- Flesh out the elemental system from previous games into an Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors sort of thing, and assign each element a colour to represent it.
- The amount of paint you have available to you in battle is governed by a meter that behaves similarly to the Star Power meter in TTYD.
- You can use paint in battle to: recolour yourself or your partner to change elemental weaknesses and resistances and even your partners' movesets (for example, paint the koopa partner metallic blue to give him a devastating one-time-use explosive shell tackle, paint the bob-omb partner pink to give her an attack that fires Mario out of a cannon, etc.); recolour foes to change their weaknesses and resistances (such as turning a bob-omb blue to make it Water-aligned, so that its fuse is lit by electricity instead of fire); recolour your weapons (boots, hammer, attack-based badges, etc.) to change their elemental attributes; and, with the addition of a Food Colouring upgrade late-game, even change items into different, similar items (such as a Fire Flower into an Ice Flower, or even into a Super Flower from Super Mario Land by painting it grayscale, or painting standard mushrooms various colours to turn them into Super Shrooms, Ultra Shrooms, Volt Shrooms, Slow Shrooms, Poison Shrooms, etc.).
- You could have enemies that behave differently in various ways when painted different colours. For example, a green leaf enemy that normally hangs from the ceiling, which makes him difficult to attack. But if you paint him red, yellow, orange, or brown - autumn colours - he falls down to the ground.
- Outside of battle, the simple "paint things in that have lost their colour" gimmick is largely gone. Instead, most of the puzzles consist of cleverly-reused and palette-swapped sprites, 3D models, tiles, etc. Some examples: maybe a field of grass waving in the wind is actually using the same tiles as the ocean, but recoloured green. So you can turn the ocean into grass just by painting it green, or the grass into ocean by painting it blue. Maybe the dirt in a flower garden uses the same tileset as still water sparkling in the sun, but one has a brown palette while the other has a blue and white palette. And of course, there's the classic example of clouds and bushes from the original Super Mario Bros, which could even be applied to clouds and treetops.
- The whole "painting your partners to change their movesets" trick could apply outside of battle, as well. For example, painting the bob-omb partner pink outside of battle would still give her the ability to fire Mario out of a cannon.
I actually have a lot more than just this that I and some others spent several hours brainstorming at one point, but I'm not gonna put the whole entire rant here.
Hey, someone thought of how to implement a new gimmick without completely trashing traditional gameplay!
You're honestly, literally more creative than the people behind color splash right now.
Heck, instead of collecting crystal stars or whatever, you could collect different colours of paint that are part of a magic painter's palette. So there you go, now it ties into the overall plot, too, rather than just having new paint colours serve as generic "you can't go here without " gates. And of course, the reality-warping paints you're using are the exact same artifact of power that the villains are after, so you're racing to collect them all before they do.
This could be a genius idea, all while possibly giving the kiddies a color pallete lesson on the side I guess idk
#MakePaperMarioGreatAgain
I was playing Paper Mario 64 when this got uploaded. Coincidence? I think NOT.
dude i just bought PM64 on wii u for 5 bucks, its such a solid and funny game
+Jian Costa you got it for 5 dollars? When I got it it cost 10
+Jian Costa dude Paper Mario 64 is so good
+Jesusbernal eshop sale
Jesusbernal yah dude, there is the e3 sale, along with the my nintendo 10% off deal, together the game cost was cut in half was
to be honest, i like mario and luigi more
Same
3:26 But... the shroobs
Nintendo looks at Sticker Star as a model of success. It had the smallest budget of any Paper Mario game yet still managed to sell millions on name alone. Vote with your wallets people.
While I agree that voting with our wallets is the best thing we can do, we shouldn't discount being vocal about our complaints. If there's even the tiniest chance someone over at Nintendo or intelligent systems will notice, then it'll have been worth the effort. Otherwise, it's almost certain that Nintendo will attribute poor sales to a lack of interest in the paper Mario brand and can the series entirely.
Saying that M&L is not capable of seriousness it's wrong. The whole premise of PiT is that an alien race came to the Mushroom Kingdom to conquer it and suck the energy out of its inhabitants to power up their army, after leaving their own planet like a complete waste.
There's also the thing that we just killed an entire race by the end of the game (the BiS cameo doesn't count because you can see dead characters like the Elder Princess just chilling in ice) , so it can do a lot of dark stuff.
Not saying the game is the darkest game ever, because there are a lot of silly moments, like eating cookies while the Yoshis are being hunted and killed.
While I agree with the overall sentiment, I can't agree that Mario and Luigi is pure comical shenanigans without any character development.
Dream Team fleshed out Luigi a lot - even giving him some actual text dialogue during Dream's Deep that showed just how deeply he admires and cares for his brother.
Heck, of all things, Bowser Jr.'s Journey - the new sidestory from the Bowser's Inside Story remake - gave Junior some of the best character development he's had since he was introduced, with him being called out on being a spoiled brat and forced to confront some of his own personality shortcomings.
The overall tone of M&L is a lot denser and wackier than Paper Mario, but it's not totally devoid of meaningful story or serious themes.
Geez. Just watching a couple seconds of 64 or TTYD makes me sad that we won't be getting a similar game in October. Hopefully we do in the future.
PLEASE, NINTENDO.
I don't think anyone would play this....especially since they are releasing it around the start of school and only little children could,possible like this game since they don't need to have intense stories yet😄 but honestly who would waste their time after work or school on this😂
I know man...
...... Now ya all are crapping on origami
@@fattytan1377 Gross.
@@shadowmetalmario1 cmon it's a decent game, ya all are crapping on it for not being ttyd. That's the only criticism I see
The times have changed so drastically that we basically need a reverse video on how Paper Mario can't replace Mario & Luigi.
I'm actually glad I haven't played The Thousand Year Door. Because now I can play it for the first time while everyone else plays Color Splash. I bought TTYD off from Amazon for 85 dollars. Totally worth it.
You can also get both of the other Paper Marios off the eshop for a total of $30 (and thats without the sale on PM64 currently!)
That is half the price of CS
I recently got TTYD from Cex for £52. Exchange rate?
Ryan S. I already own 64 and SPM. I grew up with SPM since it was my first Paper Mario game and I love it. But I also love what I played from 64 so I think I'll love TTYD too. I've played all Mario RPGs except TTYD and Paper Jam.
TopHatLucario Oh you will absolutely adore TTYD
Paper Jam cant be considered a Paper Mario game, though. It is first and foremost a M&L installment, and one that wanted to appeal to series newcomers.
Ryan S. I already considered Paper Jam to be a M&L game. But it looks stale in comparision to the first three games.
I'll never understand why they didn't release a paper Luigi game during the Year of Luigi. Seriously, you don't have to come up with a new story, just take Luigi's story from TTYD.
Great video, Arlo! I love Paper Mario, been waiting over a decade for the next REAL installment. I really wish Paper Mario could be what it once was. TTYD has some of the best storytelling and writing I've ever seen in a video game.
Also you can always buy the game, play it real fast and return! And not support the system!!! More power to you, man
Mario and luigi can't replace paper Mario because nintendo practically killed it
Not really. Alpha dream the creators of the Mario and Luigi series went bankrupt. Nintendo could pass the torch to a different company but it might be a good or bad idea. But for now, may the series rest in peace
Now Mario and Luigi REALLY can’t replace Paper Mario
Nintendo honestly needs to hear these opinions and get their shit together
I just realised, paper mario TTYD was the start of the fall of paper mario, because the paper was a larger machanic than in 64.
It was at least just there for abilities and also just given to you by an outside force.
Sort of? But the paper mechanics were mostly dropped in the sequel Super Paper Mario.
"Oh, you don't want two mario rpgs? Well you have several many platform series, so why not get rid of Kirby? Oh and Donkey Kong! And two Rpg Series? Pokemon and Fire Emblem? Yeah just keep Pokemon, no need for FE. And no need for Metroid, we got Zelda"
This.... THIS is what it feels like. It feels like they're getting rid of a important series. Well, not completely gone but... almost. I fear if the series doesn't make good sales, they'll permanently get rid of Paper mario.
Mario and Luigi won't be replacing Paper Mario aaaaaaanymore.
As if Nintendo can’t loan AlphaDream money THERE WORKING ON A FREAKING AMUSEMENT PARK. Even if they don’t want to the devs at AlphaDream can just move to Nintendo.
I love M&L and really like Paper Mario. I'm one of the few who really liked Sticker Star and I'm excited for Color Splash and I agree with you. I would love to see PM return to being an RPG. I think both series can coexist in harmony... until the fire nation strikes.
did anyone else LOVE mario and luigi dream team? (granted it was the only one I've played FULLY but.)
the legends let's plays bowsers inside story was the best
I've fully played all of them, and for some reason, Dream Team sticks out to me as my favorite in the series. And it's not even nostalgia either, as I have played and completed both SS and BIT before I got my hands on DT.
I'm still gonna fight for a traditional Paper Mario coming out until the bitter end, but if Nintendo just absolutely refuses to make a tradition Paper Mario game ever again I hope they create a new rpg series that plays like the first 2 Paper Mario games.
I had a feeling that adding too much paint to paper was a bad idea.
And also removing it's story elements to appeal to small 3 year olds.
Risa should be ashamed of herself. >:c
It's not Risa's fault. The one to blame for the state of the series is Miyamoto.
Fault or no, she is the face of the project. Hence the shame. Because this is a shameful display of a game to begin with.
If you want to give Paper Mario a new taste, than just make more games
Speaking of which, as she a part of the previous paper Mario games before? Cause this would have been quite the shift
exactly, this and Fire Emblem don't need to be your only games. And this appears to be the first Paper Mario Tabata's been involved with.
Nintendo must have seen this because now we don't have Paper Mario and Mario and Luigi.
RPGs have always been one of the most popular genre in Japan. That being said, you'd think a Japanese development company like Nintendo would want more RPG franchises.
I guess they might figure Pokemon's enough.
And Mario & Luigi
bruh now paper mario replace mario & luigi
With AlphaDream going under I can’t help but feel Arlo is secretly celebrating as it could potentially bring back Paper Mario.
He doesn't hate M&L. He just says M&L can't replace it just as PM can't replace M&L.
Coming back to this video again, only one word comes to mind: Bias.
To say Mario & luigi can't be serious is to ignore Fawful's sinister schemes in Bowser's Inside Story, to ignore Antasma's grandiose vision of nightmare-ish destruction in Dream team, to ignore Cackletta's madness, and to ignore the second entry entirely. Mario & Luigi did so much more world-building than any Paper Mario, even our beloved TTYD.
As a fan of both series, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Mario & Luigi has done much more to benefit Mario as a whole, while at the same time being ignored by Paper Mario fans because why? Paper Mario came first? Like THAT'S a good reason. I don't see Paper Mario building up a major antagonist in a creative story-arc for three games and having the once main antagonist be entirely playable for an adventure. I don't see Paper Mario combining an alien invasion and time travel story while somehow being dark despite its premise.
And I especially don't see Paper Mario having a future as an RPG series on Switch, since the portable and console markets are being merged for Nintendo, giving the more successful series that was on handhelds, Mario & Luigi, the successful series, its biggest break. Paper Mario, as a series, is much more mutable because of its artstyle, not to mention the idea of market cannibalization, which two Mario RPGs of the same series on the same system would almost certainly cause.
Mario & Luigi isn't replacing Paper Mario, Paper Mario is quitting.
I think you're the one with bias since you completely missunderstood what Arlo was meaning in his video. Sadly enough, he even leave a fucking pinned comment, clearing about the "seriousness" in the mario & luigi series.
Kazoorion ah well Arlo has some opinions about things like I can accept and ones that he just fucking die for. Like this one!
The real thing that makes Paper Mario special? Every chapter of it is essentially an entire game.
Take Thousand Year Door as an example (SPOILERS):
Chapter 1- A (Koops's) revenge story/bildungsroman quest to discover a dragon's weakness and slay it for his lost father.
Chapter 2- Dances with Wolves with Punies, a war to reclaim a homeland from technologically superior foes.
Chapter 3- A sports story/mystery where you try to become a champion (complete with a child sidekick) and discover who has been offing competitors.
Chapter 4: A nightmarish twilight zone story exploring identity.
Chapter 5: A survivor/adventure story about finding peace in loss (Bobbery's wife, the ship, riches).
Chapter 6: A train ride with a group of odd characters, a plot to destroy it, and mysteries to solve.
Chapter 7: An attack on a Moonbase to save a princess, who was sadly... in another castle.
Chapter 8- The jrpg finale of using the power of friendship to save your love and the world and kill a Demon.
Mario & Luigi is the vastly superior series in my opinion. I think you misunderstand the M&L games or just haven’t played them enough because Bowser’s Inside Story and Partners in Time have real in depth stories that rely on the seriousness of your situation. The M&L series also has reoccurring original characters, like Fawful, that even reference other games in the series. I’ve only played the original three, but Superstar Saga, Partners in Time and Bowsers Inside Story feel like a full trilogy, while Paper Mario always throws everything away for the next game and to it’s fault.
The “M&L can’t be serious” comment really gets me. Bowser’s Inside Story literally starts with like 20 minutes of reading about how the Mushroom Kingdom is going through an epidemic of a sudden mysterious incurable disease that’s ravaging the townspeople
I think nintendo looked at paper mario ttyd, looked at the curses, and went "THIS IS PAPER MARIO! NO RPG CRAP! JUST PAPER MECHANICS!!!"
Hey Arlo, here's what I think the next IDEAL Paper Mario should be like (You can't use return lines on TH-cam comments anymore, so bare with me here):
1. The same basics as the first two: An actual story, you can gain XP, get partners, there's badges, HP-FP-BP-Defense for the basic stats and special attacks from story progression. 2. A new battle space: Room for Mario plus TWO partners and 3 wide by 5 long for the enemy side. Characters in front of each line will block for the ones behind, unless they use a jump or special move (something BIG like a whomp will even block jumps too). This will allow for a lot more game mechanics, badges, items and movesets. Quirky items could be added such as springs that allow you jump over enemies so you attack the ones behind them with a hammer. Those items could be sold in shops as well as being stuck on wall as in Sticker Star. 3. Mario can now use magic attacks such as shooting fireballs. Mario will eventually learn some basic magic moves, but badges will required to increase his magic power and learn new moves. 4. As written beforehand, Mario can now battle with two partners at a time. Each time his partners level up, you can choose 1 of 3 abilities. 5. With the other new things added, there will be 'roles' that Mario and his partners can fill. Here's the 4 roles: Attacker, defensive, support and tactical. So there will be lots of variety in strategy when it comes to building your team and fighting battles.
Of course it should also ONLY be on their new console. Nintendo said their advantage over their competitors is gameplay and new ways to play. If that was so, they would've put freaking Paper Mario and Luigi's Mansion on console. There literally wouldn't have been a better game to utilize the Wii U remote than Paper Mario, but they decided instead to put it ONLY on a handheld console that was already meeting sales goals. Considering the Wii U's sales, they obviously made a big mistake or just didn't want to to sell by putting console-sellers on the 3DS. I"ve never bought a Wii U and have a 3DS, but haven't and won't be buying any watered down versions of games.
Man, I love the thoughtfulness in your vids. Even the depressing, rant vids make me feel strangely uplifted because of how well you outline how things could be made right again. I mean, even if Nintendo doesn't listen, newer devs can take up the torch and bring gamers what they want (like what Yuka-Laylee is trying to do right now).
Your argument stating at 4:30 is exactly my point.
I just wish the Mario & Luigi series to come back.
The mario and luigi series are so so much better. At the very least they all mostly play the same.
Each game kept the same formula, but added little twists here and there that made it feel fresh each time. It's what game series should strive to be in terms of gameplay.
Then there's Paper Mario with it's identity crisis. 64 and TTYD are mostly the same, but then every game afterwards feels completely different. I loved Super, but it was definitely where the series started to go downhill with it's massive gameplay changes. They should've just stuck with the turn based battles or at least kept the games as a 3D platformer like Super was to have some consistency.
Mario and Luigi series is better than the paper Mario series
I think mario and luigi series is more serious because you actually feel like if you fail everything is doomed
It's the same thing in the Paper Mario games.
We didnt like mario because it was paper mario we liked it because it was mario story
Quote of the decade
*Paper mario not just mario
This is the first video I've ever seen of yours, and I've gotta say: it was really well thought out, and entertaining. Can't wait to go watch the rest of the discussions!
I know this video is old, but I still can't get over the "Mario & Luigi games are never serious" comment. Yeah, they're more whimsical, but the games still have moments where shit is about to go down. Especially near the end of Bowser's Inside Story
PiT
Am I literally the only one who liked,
Mario & Luigi Paper Jam?
Your opinion sucks and no one will ever want to be with you. Seriously, this "Am I the only one" type of comment needs to die.
Yes
+AAA Battery Wow. You didn't need to be so rude. I asked that because I don't really know anybody who enjoyed the game. You didn't need to be a jerk.
+Ignatius Idio I usually do state my opinion, and not resort to clichés. But in this case, I don't really know anybody who likes the game. So I said that in this situation.
Lifetime fan of M&L here! And Paper Jam is my favourite in the series. I play the games way longer than the average gamer, and so while initial appeal is great, I value lasting appeal more, and Paper Jam has every other game beat out for that in my opinion.
The Papercraft Battles, while awkward on first playthroughs, are far more interesting and dynamic than Giant Battles ever were on subsequent attempts. The battle mechanics are absolutely sublime, and there's always room for improvement no matter how much you practice. Finally, all the overworld mechanics feel so dang *satisfying* to use, other than maybe the grabbing one.
Paper Mario was always the more traditional style of turned-based RPG. M+L is its quirky, more action-based cousin. They share many elements, such as turned-based combat, stats/exp and so on and so forth and on a SUPERFICIAL level yes, they are very similar. The two are part of one big family, but you wouldn't call two cousins identical just because they have the same blood. This is something Nintendo used to understand. Racing games like Mario Kart, F-Zero and Waverace could all straddle the same genre and co-exist peacefully. Now it seems that they have to narrow things down and control what people play, simplifying things to an insane degree. It's disappointing, because Nintendo's experimentation in past years was always, for the most part, exciting and helped evolved their series into something better.
Now you have Star Fox with motion controls...for some reason, Paper Mario (without the RPG elements), Metroid as a co-op FPS spin-off with only the vaguest glimmer of hope for a 3D game and Pikmin as a 2D platformer. That last one's not so bad since Pikmin is one of their better treated series, but the point remains that besides Splatoon they're not really trying all that hard anymore.
Especially now that Alpha Dream went bankrupt. Geez Nintendo deciding to bank their Mario RPGs on just being the Mario and Luigi series only over Paper Mario was a really bad decision in retrospect. Now there's NO Mario RPG series, even though Paper Mario still exists.
I'd somewhat disagree with you that the Mario & Luigi series is "just fun and silly". They have surprisingly dark themes, especially in partners in time. Although, it is certainly on another level in comparison to Paper Mario. In M&L, the worlds and battles are usually more colorful and bouncy, as you've said, and the worlds in Paper Mario are more aesthetically pleasing. But still, M&L certainly has its moments. Those shroobs scared the fuck out of me as a really little kid.
Don't forget Cackletta literally possesses Bowser in an effort to avoid death. And the Dark Star gives Bowser serious heartburn that would've killed him if not for the Bros. There's also brainwashing, vore, and toads getting their freaking life energy sapped to power the Shroob UFOs.
Y'know, for kids!
Alright, who's here after the Origami King trailer?
Or "after AlphaDream's bankruptcy", that works too.
Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Me
well this is fucking aged
We went from two Mario RPG series to zero...
We still have paper mario...
I'd say M&L>Paper mario.
Mario and luigi has stories that tied in so well. They break away from the traditional games including a system that involves both the bros who fight off enemies who are beyond what we seen. I remember playing through super star saga and I can agree with what you say about it being silly and what not. there is a lot of comedic relief in that game it's an enjoyable rpg all around, until we see the final boss. after beating bowletta the first time we are sucked in the body of bowser where we are strained with 1hp left and if you were slow you were immediately forced to survive an onslaught of attacks that could one shot you. that was the first time I have seen the tone of the game shift along with its amazing soundtrack to help push that moment. these are the moments in the game that make it totally different then paper Mario and even better. the moments where it's down and up to the TWO brothers to save the day.
fast forward to me playing Bowser inside story and it's just a master piece of years of perfected combat, story driven non stop action that turns the tables on you. we get this involvement with a recurring villain and thus a story is well thought out. We are introduced to a serious illness as one major plot in the game, and then we deal with another. Both happen to be caused around the same time by the same person. Not only did the creators seem to know how to make the story, but they did it in a way where are antagonist told the story. this is where it went beyond paper Mario for me. the tone was much more serious then it has ever been and manages to break out of that seriousness with its quick humor, not to mention it's character development is off the charts. In the start we see this stingy greedy character (bowser) who only cares for himself to later begging another character to help him without any hesitation.
Moving on to Dream Team we really see a shift in tone. more serious tone then the previous games
"I'll continue this later"