@@Angie9177-k9l Never. It's been 13 years since A Dance with Dragons came out.There's still no word on when Wind of Winter is coming out. He has at least one more book after Winds of Winter. I don't know how he's going to get Dany to Westeros without rushing that storyline.
@maud8392 he's been releasing finished chapters for years most of which were finished while he was writing the previous books. Then he's also wasted time making the world book and an entire backstory for Elden Ring. It's been in an "advanced stage" for years. Not hard to understand.
Victarion has them and when he blows the dragon horn Ned Stark's bones will reanimate and do the monster mash in front of the gates of Meereen. It will be such a smash that all sides will put down their arms and join in
Holland Reed watches over the bones of his friend. He sent his kids to guard the Stark boys now he will watch over his friend till he can be returned home.
No wonder Barbrey Dustin hates Ned. Not only did he neglect tonbring back her husband’s remains, but he DID bring back HIS HORSE. Imagine? “Hey Babs, your husband died. Can’t say why. No, I won’t tell you where. Anyway, heres his 2003 Toyota Corolla back. Few extra miles on it … so we good?”
What is interesting is that this is another case where Ned would have obviously brought home the bones or told Barbery where her husband was, but clearly he is bound by some more important secret that won't allow him to do either.
Well ..the horse walked on it's own, the bones wouldn't...:) But i still think his refusal to bring the bones were shortsighted... The daynes could have sent them by boat and what secrets could be learned by bones?
The Crannogmen intercepting the Silent Sisters and shepherding them to safety was always where I went when considering Ned's bones. So much has been made throughout the story of Howland Reed and his importance to Ned, the Tower of Joy, and the babe that is certainly Jon Snow, he just has to become involved somewhere, and being revealed as the keeper of Ned's bones until they can be safely interred beneath Winterfell is just too perfect. For the second time, Howland Reed will be the sole reason that Ned Stark returns home.... My personal nagging feeling - and I really have nothing more to back this up with - is that Ned's remains will become tied up with Lady Stoneheart before things are said and done. Ned & Cat both had their lives cut short be treachery, and both had their deaths rites interrupted. It feels right that they would be intertwined somehow as the magic in the world continues to increase.
That's a very good theory - all Stark Lords are laid to rest in the Winterfel Crypts, with a sword across their statue to prevent their spirit from walking. But Ned didn't reach the crypt, and no iron blade holds his spirt in check. It would make a nice end to Cat's arc, in Book Seven her undead vengeful Lady Stoneheart character being confronted by the spirit of Ned Stark. 'In Death all falsehoods can now be set aside - Sansa, Arya and Bran all live, and have returned to Winterfel, Jon was never my son, but my nephew, and is loyal to our family as I was always faithful to you. Your brother is alive and will rule Riverrun and your nephew the Vale. Come, lets us depart this world together, and go to join Rob and Rickon in the next world - a place of green weirwood trees, with smiling faces, and a warm summer that never ends.' And Lady Stoneheart took his hand in hers and they vanished from the world.
@dromankass8655 "Our sources, some fellow called... Mushroom? Um, Mushroom said that Lady Stoneheart actually pleasures herself with the bones and impales herself before bursting in flame and burning to ashes." - some maester 200 years later.
The "hooded man" encounter is fascinating for several reasons. Theon doesn't see him as a stranger yet doesn't seem to recognise him at the same time. I think at this point, Theon is, like you mentioned, so psychologically warped and lost in his own mind that he might not be fully cognisant of what's going on around him as something of a defence mechanism. His subconcious recall tells Theon the man is not a stranger, yet his mental fog resulting from intense torture is occupying so much of his mind's "processing power" as it were, that he doesn't make the connection. While I tend to think the man was real, I have entertained the notion that he is a "shadow person" of the sort that people in delirious frames of mind have reported seeing for years. The experience is actually quite similar to Theon's confrontation with this man. He wears a dark hood or wide hat, one does not recognise him fully, yet you know deep down that he's somehow familiar. Despite that sense of familiarity, the encounter with hatman is invariably eerie if not totally threatening, with the apparition taunting in ways seemingly designed to cause the most psychological distress. It wouldn't be the first time that trauma or injury has caused a bizarre 'waking dream' or 'vision' for a character in these books.
Speaking from experience as a therapist, that sort of response to severe stress and trauma doesn't just happen in books. Your comment sort of referenced this, but it can absolutely happen to anyone under the right (terrible) circumstances. Hell, it's even happened to me, after losing both parents suddenly, within three months of each other. The brain can do some very strange things.
I’ve always enjoyed the theories about the hooded man but I can’t get behind the idea of him not being real for the simple reason that Theon KNOWS he’s not a kinslayer and so if the hooded man was a creation of his own mind it wouldn’t call him that
@@thing_under_the_stairs I think Martin enjoys adding real health issues and psychological responses into his work to further add to the realism of the series. In other words, I think it's safe to say he included it because he knew we could analyse it through the lens of our modern understanding of psychology, such as it is. And sorry that happened with your parents. I've been able to prepare for it in recent years as they are both getting quite long in the tooth, yet the thought of it still devastates me constantly. I can't imagine the effect a sudden loss would have had on you. Thanks for sharing your own experiences and making it a part of our endeavour to figure out the world of Ice and Fire my friend🤓
@@connor4435 I really appreciated the first reply here and i think it serves as a response to this comment as well. The mind is still a mysterious place for us and after what he's been through, I'd wager Theon's mind would be even more illusive.
While this is interesting, I think it is far more likely that GRRM would have put a real character in this role to advance the plot in the vague and ambiguous way he always does.
GRRM had to write the bones out otherwise Ser Jeremy of house Kyle could do a DNA test and find that Jon isn’t Ned’s son at all, and that would throw everything out of wack
@@inthefade I’m totally with some reanimated Starks from the crypts moment, but I think GRRM might find that a bit undignified for The Ned. In fact, that might be why his bones are awol: to spare him from such a thing.
This video made me emotional when I am usually not. It encapsulates so much about the Starks in general, and Ned in particular. It touches on the dichotomy of legacies that the two main patriarchs at the beginning leave behind them - Ned and Tywin. Ned’s legacy is one of loyalty, love and family. Ned’s bones may be secreted somewhere, but I have no doubt that Ned’s legacy means that loyalists will come out of the woodwork to protect and honor them. Much the same as the Hill Clans do for The Ned’s daughter.
I have a theory: it is shown throughout the books that it is important that the Stark bones remain in the crypts after their death, and that their respective statues and iron swords keep their souls imprisoned, an ancient tradition. Perhaps the fact that Ned Stark's bones do not reach Winterfell's crypts will release something bad for Winterfell or the entire North. It's an ancient tradition, perhaps from the time of the First Men, and we know that the Starks have First Men blood and a likely connection to the Others. Perhaps the fact that Eddard's bones do not reach Winterfell is the bad omen that will herald the fall of the Boltons and, as is always said, the North remembers.
@artyjnrii in the first book it says that only the lords of winterfell are buried down there. When Lianna is brought up it says that her father specifically pushed to have her buried down there too. That makes sense logistically too since having every single Stark burried down there would be far too many people
Only just started the video, but I'm better the answer is, "No idea, but theres a good case to be made for Howland Reed having intercepted them for safekeeping"
Great vid as always IDG. I have tended to lean towards Ned's bones currently being with Howland. Just makes the most sense , Hallis not the most out of the box thinker for one but in his defence there aren't that many other options with Ironborn and Bolton obstacles in many directions with various routes Hallis could take to Winterfell. The way is essentially blocked , and with the Crannogmen monitoring the kingsroad , Hallis was likely either spotted by the Crannogmen or took it upon himself to seek out Howland , a known fellow Stark loyalist. At which point would have also likely encountered other Stark loyalists there , Maege and Galbart. Also , as the vid suggests Hallis is one of the strongest candidates to be the Hooded man , the demeanor , what he says to Theon (and recognizing him) and his general outlook all line up. So in that case could have left the bones with Howland as to not risk their discovery and make his way up to Wf. Lady Dustin is a bit of a wild-card , she has a legitimate grudge against Ned but not seemingly with the other Starks (who she seems to be making moves to help them via undermining the Boltons). As much as she is understandably aggrieved by Ned I don't genuinely think she would make good on her threats about Ned's bones. As unlikely as it may seem she may a dark horse to reluctantly protect Ned's bones and help them get to their rightful final resting place. Lady Dustin has her legitimate gripes but still strikes me as a do the right thing type and likely will do just that regarding the North overall , the Starks and if it comes to it possibly even Ned's bones.
Winds of Winter better come out soon! Seemingly out of nowhere, someone at work asked me about the difference between the show and the books. I got sucked back in to all the lore and theories.
Same, I’ve been out of the ASOIAF world for a while now but seeing one of Robert’s vidoes pop up for the first time in ages sucked me back in. Need to resume my read through of the books too, I’m on part two of Storm.
It is worth noting that no, Barbary Dustin was not checking the Winterfell crypt for Ned's bones. She went there to look upon Brandon's tomb; she clearly loved him, and he seems to have loved her as well, never wanting Brandon's arranged marriage to Catelyn Tully to break their relationship, but Brandon died before the marriage could be made. The whole scene of Dustin visiting Brandon's crypt is a parallel to Robert's own visit to Lyanna's crypt early in the story. And it is worth noting that even when they were down in the crypts, nobody ever went looking around for bones or any of that nonsense.
Please please PLEASE make the next video about Barbrey Dustin! Undoubtedly the most facinating character introduced in the last book. She is such a cipher to the more complex history of the Starks. Her version of history is as twisted as she is, but it undeniably holds truths as well.
I believe that too. Ned was too much of an honored man to "forget" his bones or even let there in purpose. Otherwise, Ned lies not only about Lyanna and Jon's true parentage. He lies a lot more.
@JorginhoTerceiro I mean, he had to at some point stop and think why were they told his sister was kidnapped, but yet here she is telling him she went willingly. Lyanna expressed to Ned that she frowns on Robert, so Ned knew. Ned must have had a plan running in the background. He had already had his fight with Robert at this point. I hope George addresses this hole.
I'm thinking that too, and that's a big piece of the puzzle. Why would neglect such a custom force loyal bannerman? Why he would do this would answer so much (I also like to think he and Arthur Dayne are still alive somehow)
@@carlschultz1538When Ned's remembering the tower of joy in his fever dream, he phrases it as "only two lived to ride away". To me this implies that more people survived the battle, but died afterwards. Some say Arthur Dayne committed suicide for disobeying the last order from Rhaegar (not letting anyone through, when Ned clearly did). Given that Howland was there I could also see some kind of old gods blood magic sacrifice, probably to keep Lyanna and Rhaegar's baby alive. I think it's plausible that most of the people there would've willingly sacrificed themselves for that, and it'd explain why Ned didn't bring their bones nor give any explanation.
I think Lord Dustin, Arthur & Ashara Dayne are all Alive at Greywater Watch. There's literally NOWHERE else in the kingdom better to hide than in the moving castle of Swamp Hermits that have little to no outside contact. I believe the theory that Ashara & Howland, not Ned were in love. I think telling Arthur that he would be an uncle was how he got him to stand down long enough for Ned to go to Lyanna. While Ned went in, Howland brought up the prophecy, something Arthur will have heard about as Rhaegar's sworn sword to enlist him. Dustin being a decedent of the Barrow Kings, with similar burial practices to the Starks that are possibly some form of Other defense, was enlisted too. I think there's a possibility that Barbrey Dustin is a very skilled double agent and Ned took her the horse so it could take her to visit her husband in secret, or maybe theirs was just a marriage of convenience and she's always been loyal to the Starks since being in love with Brandon and she uses her "hatred" for the Starks to gain standing and info from their enemies. I think Howland, Arthur, and Lord Dustin will all be part of Bran's Northern Extraction and Jon's reinforcements against the Others. I think the Dawn at Starfall is a fake and we'll find out when Darkstar tries to claim it.
I think Hallis and crew took the bones to Greywater Watch, the Crannogmen helped them get to White Harbor, and arrived at WInterfell with the Manderly's. That would put them in position to act as the hooded man in DoD.
My uncle is GRRM's personal landscaper. He told me the twist ending for Winds of Winter is that Ser Strong gets his helmet taken off in a fight and it is Ned's head sewn on top.
I am a bit suspicious of lady dustin. She did love eddards older brother. Her search for the bones reminds me of oj's search for his wifes killers. The lady doth protest too much as it were. Lady dustin has a real grievance against eddard. She wants to know the location and circumstances of her husbands death. I think we may have a trade being set up, one set of bones or location for another. In the trade we may get the truth of the tower of joy.
@@mrdarkstar3756 The public story works. They fought, most of them died. Two men can't handle that many bodies (unless they, gasp, put them on the other men's readily available horses) Yeah, it's really easy to poke holes in that story, but somehow no one ever has. Get the bodies to Starfall, contact the silent sisters, and away go the bones on their merry way home. Ned did something shady here, and that's why the bones didn't go home. We REALLY need to know what went down, the suspense is causing us to come up with stuff like the time-travelling Walder theory.
I wonder if Lady Stoneheart will make an effort to find them. Though Cat is pretty far gone and is wanting revenge instead of solace, she's in that area I think, maybe she'll come across them somehow.
There isn’t a channel on TH-cam that continues the lore of Martin, Tolkien & Sapkowski better than this one. I’m just a movie & show/series watcher. My life doesn’t allow time for reading although my wife insists I should take up audio book listening. Perhaps I will. These videos that fill the holes and expand the theories of the richness of these stories are fantastic. I have (what I think is a stupid) question about a character from the winds of winter/game of thrones mentioned a few times in this video. Why was Ramsay so obsessed with demoralizing Theon? Was it jealousy? Why? Just his demented way of being sadistic ??
In relation to this, I firmly believe that somebody is going to use the Silent Sisters as a screen to get somebody close enough to assassinate a high-level target. As Robert said, a person's right to burial is respected by just about everybody, and the Silent Sisters have some kind of diplomatic immunity because of that. We could be looking at an even greater violation of customs than the guest right violations. There's a story of a Viking ruler attempting to sack Rome by claiming to be dead, asking the bishop to convert him to Christianity, and smuggling himself into the city in a coffin.
No way Hallis Mollen leaves Ned's bones out of his sight. He's missed chances at honor and promotion to escort them and he's not going to stop 3/4 of the way there.
The real answer is that Ned’s bones are still inside his body, deep in the black cells. Cat sees at a glance that the bones aren’t Ned’s, Sansa doesn’t recognize “Ned’s” head on the pike, and Arya doesn’t recognize the person who’s about to get executed on Baelor’s sept until someone tells her who it’s supposed to be. And in later books we’re told time and again that no one ever returns from the black cells where Ned was kept.
That is a good question, and I highly doubt this is true, but wouldn't it be an ultimate twist that Ned wasn't actually dead after all? All of this chaos and it turns out that Jeoffry had secretly kept him to torture and abuse somewhere...
@@R0CKDRIG0 I dunno, it'd be quite the dramatic moment for Ned to some how get free and see the ruin to both the kingdom and his family due to his actions in the first book. It could lead to a total change of character from an honorable but foolish person, to someone entirely cold and vengeful. I suspect if this was ever a plot line that Martin abandoned it long ago and recycled the idea of a mind-broken prisoner for Theon/Reek and a cruelly vengeful parent for Lady Stoneheart/Cat.
I'm glad you made this video cuz I've been pondering a question that I think may be the most important thing that NOBODY looks at. In the very beginning Ned asks bran if he knew why he had to execute the deserter himself, why the man who passes the judgement should execute the punishment himself and bran replied, "because otherwise the old way?" What did he mean by that? Why is it so important for judge to be executioner and what is the old way in that context??
It's explained pretty well. "If you would kill a man, you owe it to him to look in his eyes and hear his final words. If you can't bear to do that, perhaps he doesn't deserve to die." The purpose, in its purest form, is to imply respect for both individuals and human life in general, and to keep you from becoming sadistic. It doesn't always work, but in a world where nobles have the power to kill at their word, it's a means of teaching your children the importance of restraint and decency.
I just thought of something. Why the hell did Ned take Ice to KL anyway? It isn't for battle. It is ceremonial, a symbol, used only in sentencing criminals to death. Wouldn't Robb might need it should somebody need beheading while Ned was away in the South? Why wasn't it hanging on the wall at WF?
It'd probably be too big for Robb and besides, Ned still believes that he who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If as hand he needed to sentence someone to death, he wouldn't have Ser Ilyn Payne do it, so he'd need Ice.
In Deep Geek, I'm a big fan. Your narration is quite relaxing and I think you'd be great in audio books. I'd like to comment on your thumbnail image, though. If you divide the thumbnail into 16 equal rectangular sections, 25% by 25%, then in the lower right hand corner, youtube places the video length and it covers up whatever's there. This makes the text in the thumbnail look like "Where are Ned Stark's bc". I notice about half of youtubers make this mistake. If you align your text more to the left, or along the top, this problem would go away.
A quick summary of crucial plot items or information Howland Reed is (probably) in possession of: 1) Ned’s bones 2) Robb’s will 3) The truth about what happened at the Tower of Joy and Jon’s parentage 4) Ashara Dayne happy, healthy, alive as his wife He’s hard-carrying the story and hasn’t even appeared on the page yet, what a Chad
Do we know, or have any theories why Ned refused to tell Barbary Dustin where the bones were? That seems very unlike him, he must have had a good reason to be so secretive about it.
I've heard this tied into theories about how and why the Tower of Joy was torn down, usually involving Howland Reed using some green magic to do it... There is so much mystery to all of those events, I just hope GRRM resolves most of it somehow.
@@inthefade If Howland could do that kind of stuff, if anyone could, we'd know. The real clincher for me is that if the ToJ situation went down as per Ned's fever dream (not likely) There would have been more people. What happened to them? Were they killed too, and Ned doesn't want to admit that? It's all so wonderfully messy, and ties in well with the shades of grey concept. Ned is portrayed as this honorable ideal, but his actions haven't really been so. I'm going to be pretty happy when the other shoe drops and a whole lot of people have to confront that he did something bad. He seems to carry an awful lot of shame and regret in his PoV's, along with some bitterness over Brandon and Lyanna's actions.
Why couldn't Ned retrieve the bones of his fallen allies later. He had years to do this and didn't, but why? With the way GRRM seems to explain everything in his world, I'm sure there's a reason.
I can only assume it’s to in some way conceal who did and didn’t die at the Tower of Joy. If he buried everyone’s bones under a cairn and refused to tell people where they were, they can’t go counting skulls to see if someone survived, after all.
Because lady Dustin isn’t angry at him JUST for not bringing his bones, due to the difficulty of bringing six corpses back across Westeros by himself, but also *refusing to tell her where she could find them herself*
@@Dorsidwarf Yes but her anger, and his honour, would be taken care of if at some point during the next decade plus he retrieved the bones. I understand he's trying to keep everything about the event a secret, what and where it happened but what I'm saying is, since it's George RR, I'm sure there's a solid, satisfying reason why he could never go back and retrieve the bones of loyal men that died for him. A covert trip back there to collect the bones and make right what was probably something else that weighed heavy on good old Ned. Come on In Deep Geek, get a video going. I know in this day and age of TH-cam you have to churn them out.
12:09 - "It does rather fit our understanding of this unimaginative but loyal man that when faced with an obstacle preventing him from going on, ...he just stays where he is." - Hal Mollen is A Song of Ice and Fire's Siegmeyer of Catarina.
Very solid theory, we know that people are scared to even go through the neck not to mention Greywater watch is a floating castle on the water. Once the red wedding happens I’m sure that the Frays and Boltons would be added to their kill list
Did Ned help lord Dustin run away with the woman who supposedly threw herself into the sea? Two supposedly unrecoverable bodies from the same action...
@@inthefade yeah, I've never seen it suggested either but there are two people who supposedly died around ned around the same time whose bodies are missing. It's at least an odd coincidence.
Always thought the hooded man was a hallucination. Not only might Theon recognize Hallis but I doubt Hallis would recognize Theon so readily as the hooded man does. Theon would’ve changed much more in appearance than Hallis since they’d last seen each other. Still, it’s not the worst theory. Most likely still in the neck with Reed
Where is the video series about how the dead Starks will defend Winterfell and what is under the cripts? I did watch it but I can’t find it now. I think there was three videos in the series?
I highly doubt the captain of the Winterfell guard is the hooded man or would call Theon a kinslayer or even Theon for that matter, by anybody living in Winterfell. Even a simple man surely understands that Theon is a Greyjoy and definitely not kin to Bran and Rickon. Theon wears the Kraken coat of arms, when sparing in the yard. surely he would know how to address Jon and Rob and Theon, the differences between them and do it on a regular basis? Even if he doesn't know the details of a ward is or what it really does. Unless there was an exception like Arya saying to stop calling her lady, my lady or m'lady. I cannot see that happening with Theon. The whole idea people call him kinslayer is extremely strange and people analyzing the story should be more careful with the term. Would people in the story really *REALLY* call him killing Bran and Rickon kinslaying, when they're so obviously not kin? People, who live in a feudal society where lineage is so important? And people, who definitely should know better, like Mors Umber, Stannis and i think the wildling women still do this. People who don't know if Theon was actually friendly to others in the castle. It's just a little silly to me. "Like a brother" doesn't make them actual brothers. Just like Ned and Robert are like brothers, not actual brothers or kin. Renly and Robert were brothers to Stannis but it didn't feel that way. Theon says it's not kinslaying himself and he is obviously right, which they would or should realize. Killing Bran and Rickon would be closer to violating guest right. Ygritte tells the story of Bael the bard where kinslaying is brought up where you have a son killing his father in some Oedipus like part. That was still kinslaying eventhough the son never knew his father or that he was his father. The wildlings take it very seriously and would know what does and doesn't qualify. Closeness is not a factor. Family blood is. No it's more likely Theon killed his own son by killing the "miller's children" and some of them figured it out somehow.
There was a discussion on why Ned left the bones of the fallen Northmen in Dorne after the battle at the Tower of Joy in a Facebook group. I surmised that if we go by the show and fan theory of what happened at the tower, then Ned more than likely found himself with a newborn baby which he had to take back to Winterfell. Traveling with a load of dead soldiers would severely hinder his travel speed, and the newborn would be in dire need of proper care and feeding as quickly as possible. Ned being a man of practicality probably did what he thought best for the child.
So, Howland likely holds the bones. Jon likely gets resurrected and conquers Winterfell with Stannis and the Wildlings. Then Jon and Howland meet, and Jon can put his 'Father' to rest in the crypts, perhaps revealing something else..?
Well, the poor fellows and the sparrows stated that even silent sisters were being accosted on the road, when they demanded for Cersei to reinstate their militant order. Perhaps they are lying scattered halfway to Winterfell. Or zombie Catelyn Stark has them. She’s creepy, it’s a possibility.
Always disappointed that they cast Howland as a tall strapping lad when he is clearly a short wiry fellow with fighting skills resembling his daughter's hunting skills.
Robert I am a huge fan of all of your content the way you look at underlining submittable messages that are secretly put into the literature is just amazing I was wondering if you ever read anything from Raymond feist I am a huge fan of magician and all the books that he has written in the world of micidamia and was wondering if you would ever review and break down that series
Robert how about, IF it's possible to put the CGi render of the 2d fake world of aSoIaF world atlas and Westeros atlas with a line pointing the journey and distances traveled etc... it would be great especially to under the long journey and quest Daenerys Targaryen and her brother undertook even though we have an idea and even the map somewhat memorized but just as an additional detail... if possible. Also yeah apparently the past actions of Ned Stark came back to haunt him even after he was gone and most likely this is a match to some of the ancient stories of how kingdoms basically fought to exterminate each other in fierce rivalries. It does make you wonder how will the Winds book play out if it's ever completed and if any of the Stark's are left like the terrible story in the TV show where the stupid characters were left in charge and we were supposed to believe that they could handle what was leftover from the ruins of the wars and conflicts... Imo the novel should have the Whyght Walkers reach King's Landing Castle and with them the "winds of winter" as a more exciting climax than the boring TV show where they just reach Winterfell... I mean they are magical monsters so it would make sense for them to be nearly unstoppable to the point that they do indeed reach King's Landing castle and scare the daylights out of the Westerosi.
My theory ever since I first read the books was always that Howland has taken Ned's bones to bury them under a weirwood. This way Ned's conciousness and memories will be uploaded into weirwood net. In Winds we will probably see Ned again for one chapter. He will either talk with Bran and maybe Jon or Bran will see everything that happened at the Tower of Joy through his father's eyes similarly to the show.
While I do believe that Hallis Mullen is the Hooded Man (HM=HM) and thus the possibility exists that Ned's bones already made it home, I'd point out something else. Barbrey Dustin's hatred for Ned may be a ruse, so it's possible she had the bones and brought them to Winterfell herself. I find it quite telling that prior to the wedding, Barbrey took custody of "Arya" and kept it up until the nuptials occurred. This gesture could be interpreted as her protecting who she thought was Ned's daughter by putting herself- the one person Ramsay can't stand more than anyone and is powerless to stop- between the girl and Ramsay. If she truly hates Ned as much as she claims, she wouldn't put her neck out to help his daughter. So yes, I think it's more than possible that Barbrey has his bones and returned them. Great video.
I think you're misremembering the part about Jeyne Poole's custody. Barbrey Dustin wanted to take her into her custody, she never had Jeyne to begin with
Would all the silent sisters stay in the Neck all this time, or would they be escorted back out? But I agree, Ned's bones are most likely with Howland Reed. Unless his loyal guard proceeded to Winterfell in secret and buried him in the lych yard (?) with household staff when he couldn’t get to the crypts.
Having some event or twist happen regarding Ned's bones would be cool but it would also be okay if it was just left up in the air to be honest. We see things like this happen all over both real life and Westerosi history. Bodies, artifacts, and records go missing all the time. It would be satisfying if we were to get answers but it really doesn't matter to the story. What matters more is everyone's reactions to his death and his bones. They reveal insights into the characters of Catelyn, Barbrey, and others that we otherwise might not have known. Why did he leave William's bones? We wouldn't have even know he left them if we didn't get Barbrey's reaction to his death. Did William even die or is he hiding out some place? Maybe with Howland or maybe he's changed his identity? Did they form some secret pact?
Ned really did his bannermen wrong. He should have taken the bones of all of his people home. In Ned's defense, he was grieving and figuring out how to conceal a hidden Targaryen prince. I also understand Barbrey's anger and feelings of being disregarded by yet another Stark. Human emotions are complicated.
I firmly believe Lord Dustin is still alive. It is the only way that can explain to me, why he (Ned) wouldn't tell the widow where the bones are. If anything Eddard would be honor bound to ensure the remains of his fallen friends was returned to the families (if they so wanted them).
In the epilogue of WoW, the bones will resume their journey north, and along the way the honour guard will be attacked, and Ned's bones will begin to stir.
This is very surface level. Barbrey Dustin is in the crypt to see Brandon’s bones as a thematic parallel to Robert visiting Lyana’s bones in the first book because she was obsessed with Brandon and convinced that he was in love with her.
Wherever bones go, I suppose
Top tier comment. 7/7 stars awarded
They went to Bonetown
Where do bones go ?
Dog kennels.
@@Dyundu you might be on to something. Ramsey is in Winterfell.
Before watching I will say with absolute confidence that Ned Starks bones stopped at the neck.
Ahhh I see what you did there. You’re a wicked man. 🫡 Never change
😂😂
I didn't know it was possible to laugh and groan at the same time until I read this.
The fact that I fully got this joke makes me realize I have finally become a proper fan of this series.
Also shame on you 😂
*slowclap*
What's crazy is how often something isn't known "Howlan Reed" gets brought up.
What's crazier is how realistic all those chances are.
yes! great video btw...... now when the hell will GRRM finish this epic story 😢😢
@@Angie9177-k9l Never. It's been 13 years since A Dance with Dragons came out.There's still no word on when Wind of Winter is coming out. He has at least one more book after Winds of Winter. I don't know how he's going to get Dany to Westeros without rushing that storyline.
@maud8392 sure it has. weird that you think 13 years is rushing a book.
@maud8392 he's been releasing finished chapters for years most of which were finished while he was writing the previous books. Then he's also wasted time making the world book and an entire backstory for Elden Ring. It's been in an "advanced stage" for years. Not hard to understand.
He's the character I'm most excited to meet
Ned's Bones are on a luxury cruise through the Stepstones on a well-deserved vacation after such a tumultuous career
They mean to bend his knees to Daenerys
Haha. Love it.
Can't blame whoever funded such a venture. Ned likely has some nice milky bones.
Victarion has them and when he blows the dragon horn Ned Stark's bones will reanimate and do the monster mash in front of the gates of Meereen. It will be such a smash that all sides will put down their arms and join in
Finished with a T pose
Just like that dancing skelly animation??
@@naemieaad5456i like that thinking
Seems plausible.
I’d take this over season 8
Holland Reed watches over the bones of his friend. He sent his kids to guard the Stark boys now he will watch over his friend till he can be returned home.
*howland
@@gracehenderson5106I believe he meant Holland Weed
@@sandrinowitschM they clearly didn't read the books
Where are Rob Starks bones, that’s what’s always nagged at my mind
I'd guess a massive grave somewhere near the Twins sadly 😓
@@ThailandOutsider or thrown in the Trident =(
His head is sewn on the mountains shoulders
We know where is head is🤔
That's a good point ..
Especially because no one seems to care at that time..
If the King's Justice took Ned Stark's bones to Greywater Watch, however, that would be a Payne in the Neck.
-.-
Underrated comment. Bravo, dad! 😂
No wonder Barbrey Dustin hates Ned. Not only did he neglect tonbring back her husband’s remains, but he DID bring back HIS HORSE. Imagine? “Hey Babs, your husband died. Can’t say why. No, I won’t tell you where. Anyway, heres his 2003 Toyota Corolla back. Few extra miles on it … so we good?”
So funny!
What is interesting is that this is another case where Ned would have obviously brought home the bones or told Barbery where her husband was, but clearly he is bound by some more important secret that won't allow him to do either.
😂😂😂
Well ..the horse walked on it's own, the bones wouldn't...:)
But i still think his refusal to bring the bones were shortsighted...
The daynes could have sent them by boat and what secrets could be learned by bones?
😂😂😂 "the gas is still full"
The Crannogmen intercepting the Silent Sisters and shepherding them to safety was always where I went when considering Ned's bones. So much has been made throughout the story of Howland Reed and his importance to Ned, the Tower of Joy, and the babe that is certainly Jon Snow, he just has to become involved somewhere, and being revealed as the keeper of Ned's bones until they can be safely interred beneath Winterfell is just too perfect. For the second time, Howland Reed will be the sole reason that Ned Stark returns home....
My personal nagging feeling - and I really have nothing more to back this up with - is that Ned's remains will become tied up with Lady Stoneheart before things are said and done. Ned & Cat both had their lives cut short be treachery, and both had their deaths rites interrupted. It feels right that they would be intertwined somehow as the magic in the world continues to increase.
That's a very good theory - all Stark Lords are laid to rest in the Winterfel Crypts, with a sword across their statue to prevent their spirit from walking. But Ned didn't reach the crypt, and no iron blade holds his spirt in check.
It would make a nice end to Cat's arc, in Book Seven her undead vengeful Lady Stoneheart character being confronted by the spirit of Ned Stark.
'In Death all falsehoods can now be set aside - Sansa, Arya and Bran all live, and have returned to Winterfel, Jon was never my son, but my nephew, and is loyal to our family as I was always faithful to you. Your brother is alive and will rule Riverrun and your nephew the Vale. Come, lets us depart this world together, and go to join Rob and Rickon in the next world - a place of green weirwood trees, with smiling faces, and a warm summer that never ends.'
And Lady Stoneheart took his hand in hers and they vanished from the world.
@dromankass8655 "Our sources, some fellow called... Mushroom? Um, Mushroom said that Lady Stoneheart actually pleasures herself with the bones and impales herself before bursting in flame and burning to ashes." - some maester 200 years later.
The "hooded man" encounter is fascinating for several reasons. Theon doesn't see him as a stranger yet doesn't seem to recognise him at the same time. I think at this point, Theon is, like you mentioned, so psychologically warped and lost in his own mind that he might not be fully cognisant of what's going on around him as something of a defence mechanism. His subconcious recall tells Theon the man is not a stranger, yet his mental fog resulting from intense torture is occupying so much of his mind's "processing power" as it were, that he doesn't make the connection. While I tend to think the man was real, I have entertained the notion that he is a "shadow person" of the sort that people in delirious frames of mind have reported seeing for years. The experience is actually quite similar to Theon's confrontation with this man. He wears a dark hood or wide hat, one does not recognise him fully, yet you know deep down that he's somehow familiar. Despite that sense of familiarity, the encounter with hatman is invariably eerie if not totally threatening, with the apparition taunting in ways seemingly designed to cause the most psychological distress. It wouldn't be the first time that trauma or injury has caused a bizarre 'waking dream' or 'vision' for a character in these books.
Speaking from experience as a therapist, that sort of response to severe stress and trauma doesn't just happen in books. Your comment sort of referenced this, but it can absolutely happen to anyone under the right (terrible) circumstances.
Hell, it's even happened to me, after losing both parents suddenly, within three months of each other. The brain can do some very strange things.
I’ve always enjoyed the theories about the hooded man but I can’t get behind the idea of him not being real for the simple reason that Theon KNOWS he’s not a kinslayer and so if the hooded man was a creation of his own mind it wouldn’t call him that
@@thing_under_the_stairs I think Martin enjoys adding real health issues and psychological responses into his work to further add to the realism of the series. In other words, I think it's safe to say he included it because he knew we could analyse it through the lens of our modern understanding of psychology, such as it is.
And sorry that happened with your parents. I've been able to prepare for it in recent years as they are both getting quite long in the tooth, yet the thought of it still devastates me constantly. I can't imagine the effect a sudden loss would have had on you. Thanks for sharing your own experiences and making it a part of our endeavour to figure out the world of Ice and Fire my friend🤓
@@connor4435 I really appreciated the first reply here and i think it serves as a response to this comment as well. The mind is still a mysterious place for us and after what he's been through, I'd wager Theon's mind would be even more illusive.
While this is interesting, I think it is far more likely that GRRM would have put a real character in this role to advance the plot in the vague and ambiguous way he always does.
GRRM had to write the bones out otherwise Ser Jeremy of house Kyle could do a DNA test and find that Jon isn’t Ned’s son at all, and that would throw everything out of wack
Ned’s bones coming home sound like a satisfying quiet moment. I think that’s all they’re for tbh.
Or to be reanimated as a stone giant
@@inthefade I’m totally with some reanimated Starks from the crypts moment, but I think GRRM might find that a bit undignified for The Ned. In fact, that might be why his bones are awol: to spare him from such a thing.
This video made me emotional when I am usually not. It encapsulates so much about the Starks in general, and Ned in particular. It touches on the dichotomy of legacies that the two main patriarchs at the beginning leave behind them - Ned and Tywin. Ned’s legacy is one of loyalty, love and family. Ned’s bones may be secreted somewhere, but I have no doubt that Ned’s legacy means that loyalists will come out of the woodwork to protect and honor them. Much the same as the Hill Clans do for The Ned’s daughter.
I have a theory: it is shown throughout the books that it is important that the Stark bones remain in the crypts after their death, and that their respective statues and iron swords keep their souls imprisoned, an ancient tradition. Perhaps the fact that Ned Stark's bones do not reach Winterfell's crypts will release something bad for Winterfell or the entire North. It's an ancient tradition, perhaps from the time of the First Men, and we know that the Starks have First Men blood and a likely connection to the Others. Perhaps the fact that Eddard's bones do not reach Winterfell is the bad omen that will herald the fall of the Boltons and, as is always said, the North remembers.
Equally, the bones of Benjen (and presumably some other Nights Watch Starks) are lost north of the wall.
@artyjnrii in the first book it says that only the lords of winterfell are buried down there. When Lianna is brought up it says that her father specifically pushed to have her buried down there too.
That makes sense logistically too since having every single Stark burried down there would be far too many people
@@pandapotato5121Ned pushed for her to be buried there, their father had been dead for a while when she died.
Did the bones of his father and brother make it? Weren’t they burnt
Whether their bones made it or not their is a crypt for Rickard, Brandon and Lyanna
They are inside Sean Bean.
Only just started the video, but I'm better the answer is, "No idea, but theres a good case to be made for Howland Reed having intercepted them for safekeeping"
Great vid as always IDG. I have tended to lean towards Ned's bones currently being with Howland. Just makes the most sense , Hallis not the most out of the box thinker for one but in his defence there aren't that many other options with Ironborn and Bolton obstacles in many directions with various routes Hallis could take to Winterfell. The way is essentially blocked , and with the Crannogmen monitoring the kingsroad , Hallis was likely either spotted by the Crannogmen or took it upon himself to seek out Howland , a known fellow Stark loyalist. At which point would have also likely encountered other Stark loyalists there , Maege and Galbart.
Also , as the vid suggests Hallis is one of the strongest candidates to be the Hooded man , the demeanor , what he says to Theon (and recognizing him) and his general outlook all line up. So in that case could have left the bones with Howland as to not risk their discovery and make his way up to Wf. Lady Dustin is a bit of a wild-card , she has a legitimate grudge against Ned but not seemingly with the other Starks (who she seems to be making moves to help them via undermining the Boltons). As much as she is understandably aggrieved by Ned I don't genuinely think she would make good on her threats about Ned's bones. As unlikely as it may seem she may a dark horse to reluctantly protect Ned's bones and help them get to their rightful final resting place. Lady Dustin has her legitimate gripes but still strikes me as a do the right thing type and likely will do just that regarding the North overall , the Starks and if it comes to it possibly even Ned's bones.
Winds of Winter better come out soon!
Seemingly out of nowhere, someone at work asked me about the difference between the show and the books.
I got sucked back in to all the lore and theories.
Same, I’ve been out of the ASOIAF world for a while now but seeing one of Robert’s vidoes pop up for the first time in ages sucked me back in. Need to resume my read through of the books too, I’m on part two of Storm.
You'll have grey hairs and a walking stick before that book comes out lol.
It is worth noting that no, Barbary Dustin was not checking the Winterfell crypt for Ned's bones. She went there to look upon Brandon's tomb; she clearly loved him, and he seems to have loved her as well, never wanting Brandon's arranged marriage to Catelyn Tully to break their relationship, but Brandon died before the marriage could be made. The whole scene of Dustin visiting Brandon's crypt is a parallel to Robert's own visit to Lyanna's crypt early in the story. And it is worth noting that even when they were down in the crypts, nobody ever went looking around for bones or any of that nonsense.
Please please PLEASE make the next video about Barbrey Dustin! Undoubtedly the most facinating character introduced in the last book. She is such a cipher to the more complex history of the Starks. Her version of history is as twisted as she is, but it undeniably holds truths as well.
Dude is still alive. Thats why Ned only brought a horse back to Lady Dustin.
I believe that too. Ned was too much of an honored man to "forget" his bones or even let there in purpose. Otherwise, Ned lies not only about Lyanna and Jon's true parentage. He lies a lot more.
@JorginhoTerceiro I mean, he had to at some point stop and think why were they told his sister was kidnapped, but yet here she is telling him she went willingly. Lyanna expressed to Ned that she frowns on Robert, so Ned knew. Ned must have had a plan running in the background. He had already had his fight with Robert at this point. I hope George addresses this hole.
I'm thinking that too, and that's a big piece of the puzzle. Why would neglect such a custom force loyal bannerman? Why he would do this would answer so much (I also like to think he and Arthur Dayne are still alive somehow)
@@carlschultz1538When Ned's remembering the tower of joy in his fever dream, he phrases it as "only two lived to ride away". To me this implies that more people survived the battle, but died afterwards. Some say Arthur Dayne committed suicide for disobeying the last order from Rhaegar (not letting anyone through, when Ned clearly did).
Given that Howland was there I could also see some kind of old gods blood magic sacrifice, probably to keep Lyanna and Rhaegar's baby alive. I think it's plausible that most of the people there would've willingly sacrificed themselves for that, and it'd explain why Ned didn't bring their bones nor give any explanation.
I think Lord Dustin, Arthur & Ashara Dayne are all Alive at Greywater Watch. There's literally NOWHERE else in the kingdom better to hide than in the moving castle of Swamp Hermits that have little to no outside contact. I believe the theory that Ashara & Howland, not Ned were in love. I think telling Arthur that he would be an uncle was how he got him to stand down long enough for Ned to go to Lyanna. While Ned went in, Howland brought up the prophecy, something Arthur will have heard about as Rhaegar's sworn sword to enlist him. Dustin being a decedent of the Barrow Kings, with similar burial practices to the Starks that are possibly some form of Other defense, was enlisted too.
I think there's a possibility that Barbrey Dustin is a very skilled double agent and Ned took her the horse so it could take her to visit her husband in secret, or maybe theirs was just a marriage of convenience and she's always been loyal to the Starks since being in love with Brandon and she uses her "hatred" for the Starks to gain standing and info from their enemies. I think Howland, Arthur, and Lord Dustin will all be part of Bran's Northern Extraction and Jon's reinforcements against the Others. I think the Dawn at Starfall is a fake and we'll find out when Darkstar tries to claim it.
I think Hallis and crew took the bones to Greywater Watch, the Crannogmen helped them get to White Harbor, and arrived at WInterfell with the Manderly's. That would put them in position to act as the hooded man in DoD.
Yussssss. So many "Chekhov's gun"s all over the place in this story. Ty for the content and theory.
Straight up Chekhov’s Armory up in here
@@Dyundu Chekhov's average American basement.
I dont think Dustin died at the Tower of Joy, otherwise Ned would have brought his bones
Everybody asks WHERE are Ned's bones....
Nobody asks HOW are Ned's bones. 😢
WHY are Ned's bones?
WHAT are Ned's bones?
These certainly are thought-provoking questions but they distract us from the heat of the matter: ARE Ned's bones?
@@inthefade The bones of Eddard Stark.
If you want me to explain the back story, it's going to involve a lot of spoilers.
I want to know what happens to Robb’s body after the red wedding will he be able to have his bones in the crypt?
5:42 I love the colours/style of that map.
My uncle is GRRM's personal landscaper. He told me the twist ending for Winds of Winter is that Ser Strong gets his helmet taken off in a fight and it is Ned's head sewn on top.
"Ned's bones are in Meereen" - Glidus
Damn, really? 😂 in which video?
@@amellirizarry9503 one of the livestreams with Schwifty. He was like 90% joking (I think … 👀)
House Dust Bin need to get over it imo
Their revenge is complete gabbage
I am a bit suspicious of lady dustin. She did love eddards older brother. Her search for the bones reminds me of oj's search for his wifes killers. The lady doth protest too much as it were. Lady dustin has a real grievance against eddard. She wants to know the location and circumstances of her husbands death. I think we may have a trade being set up, one set of bones or location for another. In the trade we may get the truth of the tower of joy.
Its a pretty big spit in the face. Ned was too honorable to come up with litterally any kind of lie to give the widow closure?
@@mrdarkstar3756 The public story works. They fought, most of them died. Two men can't handle that many bodies (unless they, gasp, put them on the other men's readily available horses) Yeah, it's really easy to poke holes in that story, but somehow no one ever has. Get the bodies to Starfall, contact the silent sisters, and away go the bones on their merry way home. Ned did something shady here, and that's why the bones didn't go home. We REALLY need to know what went down, the suspense is causing us to come up with stuff like the time-travelling Walder theory.
Your videos are great. I refused to reread the entire series when the next book drops so these videos are so helpful to keep my memory fresh.
There's so much substance to these books. So many things to consider. I want to read them again.
That is what keeps us coming back.
@@inthefade absolutely, great books to reread, analyze or simply enjoy. Just a great series.
I think i'm going to make a character centric reread...(Read all chapters of one character back to back)
Didn't the Pogues sing a song about that? In any event, Barbrey Dustin better hope Arya doesn't here about that attitude towards her dad.
I wonder if Lady Stoneheart will make an effort to find them. Though Cat is pretty far gone and is wanting revenge instead of solace, she's in that area I think, maybe she'll come across them somehow.
Instructive, and moving. Thank you, and thank the Gods for the crannogmen.
I'd love it if Ned and catelyn are both reunited as undead and defend winterfell
A reanimated Ned wielding a reforged Ice. Laughably over the top, but it hits all the rule-of-cool points.
There isn’t a channel on TH-cam that continues the lore of Martin, Tolkien & Sapkowski better than this one. I’m just a movie & show/series watcher. My life doesn’t allow time for reading although my wife insists I should take up audio book listening. Perhaps I will. These videos that fill the holes and expand the theories of the richness of these stories are fantastic. I have (what I think is a stupid) question about a character from the winds of winter/game of thrones mentioned a few times in this video. Why was Ramsay so obsessed with demoralizing Theon? Was it jealousy? Why? Just his demented way of being sadistic ??
Even if we never find out. I’m glad it’s thought about. I can’t wait to meet the Cranogmen. I love this story.
Poor Cleos. One of the few Freys who was actually pretty nice.
Nah. He was a motley bitch.
In relation to this, I firmly believe that somebody is going to use the Silent Sisters as a screen to get somebody close enough to assassinate a high-level target. As Robert said, a person's right to burial is respected by just about everybody, and the Silent Sisters have some kind of diplomatic immunity because of that. We could be looking at an even greater violation of customs than the guest right violations.
There's a story of a Viking ruler attempting to sack Rome by claiming to be dead, asking the bishop to convert him to Christianity, and smuggling himself into the city in a coffin.
Another excellent vid, thanks Robert!
More importantly where are King Daemon Blackfyre the 1st bones?
Well we know where the skull is
Under the narrow sea
@@onyedikachukwumiracle The bones fall up. I know, I know, ooooooh!
No way Hallis Mollen leaves Ned's bones out of his sight. He's missed chances at honor and promotion to escort them and he's not going to stop 3/4 of the way there.
The real answer is that Ned’s bones are still inside his body, deep in the black cells. Cat sees at a glance that the bones aren’t Ned’s, Sansa doesn’t recognize “Ned’s” head on the pike, and Arya doesn’t recognize the person who’s about to get executed on Baelor’s sept until someone tells her who it’s supposed to be. And in later books we’re told time and again that no one ever returns from the black cells where Ned was kept.
Maybe they sent the real head of the mountain to dorne and did a head transplant with Ned
Ok and narratively what would be the point of him staying in the Black Cells?
That is a good question, and I highly doubt this is true, but wouldn't it be an ultimate twist that Ned wasn't actually dead after all? All of this chaos and it turns out that Jeoffry had secretly kept him to torture and abuse somewhere...
@@R0CKDRIG0 I dunno, it'd be quite the dramatic moment for Ned to some how get free and see the ruin to both the kingdom and his family due to his actions in the first book. It could lead to a total change of character from an honorable but foolish person, to someone entirely cold and vengeful.
I suspect if this was ever a plot line that Martin abandoned it long ago and recycled the idea of a mind-broken prisoner for Theon/Reek and a cruelly vengeful parent for Lady Stoneheart/Cat.
I'm glad you made this video cuz I've been pondering a question that I think may be the most important thing that NOBODY looks at. In the very beginning Ned asks bran if he knew why he had to execute the deserter himself, why the man who passes the judgement should execute the punishment himself and bran replied, "because otherwise the old way?" What did he mean by that? Why is it so important for judge to be executioner and what is the old way in that context??
It's explained pretty well. "If you would kill a man, you owe it to him to look in his eyes and hear his final words. If you can't bear to do that, perhaps he doesn't deserve to die." The purpose, in its purest form, is to imply respect for both individuals and human life in general, and to keep you from becoming sadistic. It doesn't always work, but in a world where nobles have the power to kill at their word, it's a means of teaching your children the importance of restraint and decency.
I just thought of something. Why the hell did Ned take Ice to KL anyway? It isn't for battle. It is ceremonial, a symbol, used only in sentencing criminals to death. Wouldn't Robb might need it should somebody need beheading while Ned was away in the South? Why wasn't it hanging on the wall at WF?
It'd probably be too big for Robb and besides, Ned still believes that he who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If as hand he needed to sentence someone to death, he wouldn't have Ser Ilyn Payne do it, so he'd need Ice.
You’re such a Barbrey Dustin fanboy and I am HERE for it! ❤❤❤❤❤
That laxative moment is why Tyrion is the best character in GOT.
Justice for Barb
Wasn't Lady Dustin's REAL reason to go to the Crypts to check if the Swords were gone, to back up the Bran and Rickon are alive story tho?
They;'re on the ship with the Winterfell Library books and Gilly in Essos.
In Deep Geek, I'm a big fan. Your narration is quite relaxing and I think you'd be great in audio books. I'd like to comment on your thumbnail image, though. If you divide the thumbnail into 16 equal rectangular sections, 25% by 25%, then in the lower right hand corner, youtube places the video length and it covers up whatever's there. This makes the text in the thumbnail look like "Where are Ned Stark's bc". I notice about half of youtubers make this mistake. If you align your text more to the left, or along the top, this problem would go away.
Excellent and detailed advice.
Speaking of dead bodies… why is Ser Robert Strong, a Strong? Is Qyburn possibly from House Strong?
Great video, as usual
A quick summary of crucial plot items or information Howland Reed is (probably) in possession of:
1) Ned’s bones
2) Robb’s will
3) The truth about what happened at the Tower of Joy and Jon’s parentage
4) Ashara Dayne happy, healthy, alive as his wife
He’s hard-carrying the story and hasn’t even appeared on the page yet, what a Chad
Do we know, or have any theories why Ned refused to tell Barbary Dustin where the bones were? That seems very unlike him, he must have had a good reason to be so secretive about it.
I've heard this tied into theories about how and why the Tower of Joy was torn down, usually involving Howland Reed using some green magic to do it... There is so much mystery to all of those events, I just hope GRRM resolves most of it somehow.
@@inthefade If Howland could do that kind of stuff, if anyone could, we'd know. The real clincher for me is that if the ToJ situation went down as per Ned's fever dream (not likely) There would have been more people. What happened to them? Were they killed too, and Ned doesn't want to admit that? It's all so wonderfully messy, and ties in well with the shades of grey concept. Ned is portrayed as this honorable ideal, but his actions haven't really been so. I'm going to be pretty happy when the other shoe drops and a whole lot of people have to confront that he did something bad. He seems to carry an awful lot of shame and regret in his PoV's, along with some bitterness over Brandon and Lyanna's actions.
Why couldn't Ned retrieve the bones of his fallen allies later. He had years to do this and didn't, but why? With the way GRRM seems to explain everything in his world, I'm sure there's a reason.
I can only assume it’s to in some way conceal who did and didn’t die at the Tower of Joy. If he buried everyone’s bones under a cairn and refused to tell people where they were, they can’t go counting skulls to see if someone survived, after all.
Because lady Dustin isn’t angry at him JUST for not bringing his bones, due to the difficulty of bringing six corpses back across Westeros by himself, but also *refusing to tell her where she could find them herself*
@@Dorsidwarf Yes but her anger, and his honour, would be taken care of if at some point during the next decade plus he retrieved the bones. I understand he's trying to keep everything about the event a secret, what and where it happened but what I'm saying is, since it's George RR, I'm sure there's a solid, satisfying reason why he could never go back and retrieve the bones of loyal men that died for him. A covert trip back there to collect the bones and make right what was probably something else that weighed heavy on good old Ned.
Come on In Deep Geek, get a video going. I know in this day and age of TH-cam you have to churn them out.
12:09 - "It does rather fit our understanding of this unimaginative but loyal man that when faced with an obstacle preventing him from going on, ...he just stays where he is." - Hal Mollen is A Song of Ice and Fire's Siegmeyer of Catarina.
One of your best videos.
Very solid theory, we know that people are scared to even go through the neck not to mention Greywater watch is a floating castle on the water. Once the red wedding happens I’m sure that the Frays and Boltons would be added to their kill list
Another Friday banger!!!
Did some of your old videos get taken down? Was looking for the videos breaking down Roberts Rebellion and couldn't find them
Did Ned help lord Dustin run away with the woman who supposedly threw herself into the sea? Two supposedly unrecoverable bodies from the same action...
Dustin and Ashara Dayne? That is one that I haven't heard. I don't think there is much substantiating it. Some people think she is now Quaith.
@@inthefade yeah, I've never seen it suggested either but there are two people who supposedly died around ned around the same time whose bodies are missing. It's at least an odd coincidence.
In the show they made it to the crypt at some point.
In the books theyre on the Neck somewhere.
Always thought the hooded man was a hallucination. Not only might Theon recognize Hallis but I doubt Hallis would recognize Theon so readily as the hooded man does. Theon would’ve changed much more in appearance than Hallis since they’d last seen each other. Still, it’s not the worst theory.
Most likely still in the neck with Reed
I suppose they are with all of Sean Bean's other characters; some sort of multi-verse type graveyard situation. Bean has his own wing.
Where is the video series about how the dead Starks will defend Winterfell and what is under the cripts? I did watch it but I can’t find it now. I think there was three videos in the series?
robert, did you delete your video series on robert’s rebellion? I can’t find them anymore
I highly doubt the captain of the Winterfell guard is the hooded man or would call Theon a kinslayer or even Theon for that matter, by anybody living in Winterfell. Even a simple man surely understands that Theon is a Greyjoy and definitely not kin to Bran and Rickon. Theon wears the Kraken coat of arms, when sparing in the yard. surely he would know how to address Jon and Rob and Theon, the differences between them and do it on a regular basis? Even if he doesn't know the details of a ward is or what it really does. Unless there was an exception like Arya saying to stop calling her lady, my lady or m'lady. I cannot see that happening with Theon.
The whole idea people call him kinslayer is extremely strange and people analyzing the story should be more careful with the term. Would people in the story really *REALLY* call him killing Bran and Rickon kinslaying, when they're so obviously not kin? People, who live in a feudal society where lineage is so important? And people, who definitely should know better, like Mors Umber, Stannis and i think the wildling women still do this. People who don't know if Theon was actually friendly to others in the castle. It's just a little silly to me.
"Like a brother" doesn't make them actual brothers. Just like Ned and Robert are like brothers, not actual brothers or kin. Renly and Robert were brothers to Stannis but it didn't feel that way. Theon says it's not kinslaying himself and he is obviously right, which they would or should realize. Killing Bran and Rickon would be closer to violating guest right.
Ygritte tells the story of Bael the bard where kinslaying is brought up where you have a son killing his father in some Oedipus like part. That was still kinslaying eventhough the son never knew his father or that he was his father. The wildlings take it very seriously and would know what does and doesn't qualify. Closeness is not a factor. Family blood is.
No it's more likely Theon killed his own son by killing the "miller's children" and some of them figured it out somehow.
There was a discussion on why Ned left the bones of the fallen Northmen in Dorne after the battle at the Tower of Joy in a Facebook group.
I surmised that if we go by the show and fan theory of what happened at the tower, then Ned more than likely found himself with a newborn baby which he had to take back to Winterfell. Traveling with a load of dead soldiers would severely hinder his travel speed, and the newborn would be in dire need of proper care and feeding as quickly as possible. Ned being a man of practicality probably did what he thought best for the child.
Give us your bones!!!!
Please, NO squirrelbones. You have no idea how much of a problem this causes for us
So, Howland likely holds the bones. Jon likely gets resurrected and conquers Winterfell with Stannis and the Wildlings.
Then Jon and Howland meet, and Jon can put his 'Father' to rest in the crypts, perhaps revealing something else..?
Well, the poor fellows and the sparrows stated that even silent sisters were being accosted on the road, when they demanded for Cersei to reinstate their militant order.
Perhaps they are lying scattered halfway to Winterfell.
Or zombie Catelyn Stark has them. She’s creepy, it’s a possibility.
Such a good one!!
In my heart. Ned's bones are in my heart.
Only Bran knows where they are.
Tv Howland being taller than Ned always makes me laugh
What an awesome thumbnail
Geek where is the Tower of Joy playlist and its videos?
They are gonna go on rattle shirt (Mance’s) new outfit
They are being sent to Ned's one true love and mother of his favorite child. To be with Wylla in Dorne.
Always disappointed that they cast Howland as a tall strapping lad when he is clearly a short wiry fellow with fighting skills resembling his daughter's hunting skills.
Robert I am a huge fan of all of your content the way you look at underlining submittable messages that are secretly put into the literature is just amazing I was wondering if you ever read anything from Raymond feist I am a huge fan of magician and all the books that he has written in the world of micidamia and was wondering if you would ever review and break down that series
We all need a Howland Reed in our lives.
Robert how about, IF it's possible to put the CGi render of the 2d fake world of aSoIaF world atlas and Westeros atlas with a line pointing the journey and distances traveled etc... it would be great especially to under the long journey and quest Daenerys Targaryen and her brother undertook even though we have an idea and even the map somewhat memorized but just as an additional detail... if possible.
Also yeah apparently the past actions of Ned Stark came back to haunt him even after he was gone and most likely this is a match to some of the ancient stories of how kingdoms basically fought to exterminate each other in fierce rivalries.
It does make you wonder how will the Winds book play out if it's ever completed and if any of the Stark's are left like the terrible story in the TV show where the stupid characters were left in charge and we were supposed to believe that they could handle what was leftover from the ruins of the wars and conflicts...
Imo the novel should have the Whyght Walkers reach King's Landing Castle and with them the "winds of winter" as a more exciting climax than the boring TV show where they just reach Winterfell... I mean they are magical monsters so it would make sense for them to be nearly unstoppable to the point that they do indeed reach King's Landing castle and scare the daylights out of the Westerosi.
"If the ever make it through the swamp." Maybe Howland now has them.
My theory ever since I first read the books was always that Howland has taken Ned's bones to bury them under a weirwood. This way Ned's conciousness and memories will be uploaded into weirwood net. In Winds we will probably see Ned again for one chapter. He will either talk with Bran and maybe Jon or Bran will see everything that happened at the Tower of Joy through his father's eyes similarly to the show.
While I do believe that Hallis Mullen is the Hooded Man (HM=HM) and thus the possibility exists that Ned's bones already made it home, I'd point out something else. Barbrey Dustin's hatred for Ned may be a ruse, so it's possible she had the bones and brought them to Winterfell herself. I find it quite telling that prior to the wedding, Barbrey took custody of "Arya" and kept it up until the nuptials occurred. This gesture could be interpreted as her protecting who she thought was Ned's daughter by putting herself- the one person Ramsay can't stand more than anyone and is powerless to stop- between the girl and Ramsay. If she truly hates Ned as much as she claims, she wouldn't put her neck out to help his daughter. So yes, I think it's more than possible that Barbrey has his bones and returned them. Great video.
I think you're misremembering the part about Jeyne Poole's custody. Barbrey Dustin wanted to take her into her custody, she never had Jeyne to begin with
Would all the silent sisters stay in the Neck all this time, or would they be escorted back out? But I agree, Ned's bones are most likely with Howland Reed. Unless his loyal guard proceeded to Winterfell in secret and buried him in the lych yard (?) with household staff when he couldn’t get to the crypts.
Another great content.
I have a feeling those silent sisters being among the old gods and howlan's people will cause some problems?
Having some event or twist happen regarding Ned's bones would be cool but it would also be okay if it was just left up in the air to be honest.
We see things like this happen all over both real life and Westerosi history. Bodies, artifacts, and records go missing all the time.
It would be satisfying if we were to get answers but it really doesn't matter to the story. What matters more is everyone's reactions to his death and his bones. They reveal insights into the characters of Catelyn, Barbrey, and others that we otherwise might not have known.
Why did he leave William's bones?
We wouldn't have even know he left them if we didn't get Barbrey's reaction to his death. Did William even die or is he hiding out some place? Maybe with Howland or maybe he's changed his identity?
Did they form some secret pact?
Ned really did his bannermen wrong. He should have taken the bones of all of his people home. In Ned's defense, he was grieving and figuring out how to conceal a hidden Targaryen prince. I also understand Barbrey's anger and feelings of being disregarded by yet another Stark. Human emotions are complicated.
"Where do bones go?" - Tyrion Lannister
Just like Steiner's imminent counterattack, Martin's new ASOIAF book which will release anytime now will answer all questions.
I firmly believe Lord Dustin is still alive. It is the only way that can explain to me, why he (Ned) wouldn't tell the widow where the bones are. If anything Eddard would be honor bound to ensure the remains of his fallen friends was returned to the families (if they so wanted them).
In the epilogue of WoW, the bones will resume their journey north, and along the way the honour guard will be attacked, and Ned's bones will begin to stir.
This is very surface level. Barbrey Dustin is in the crypt to see Brandon’s bones as a thematic parallel to Robert visiting Lyana’s bones in the first book because she was obsessed with Brandon and convinced that he was in love with her.
I have always thought that the hooded man was just Theon’s personality splitting.