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I love the detail of master Lewin having a short chain that he constantly tugs at. It can imply that he is relatively uneducated when compared to pycel who has a chain down to his knees, but it is also implying he avoids being a part of the maesterplan
It can also imply that where his maester chain has remained the same size, he has grown himself, and now his chain chafes at his true knowledge. He goes beyond loyalty to whatever castle he is assigned. He protected Bran and Rickon, and even tried to guide Theon to a path where he could still be alive despite his crimes.
@@michaelbayer5094 In the end though, they want magic gone. They want to control things with knowledge and secrecy. Magic is rather the antithesis of that.
@@thecocktailian2091It kinda seems like Maesters are like librarians who're afraid that internet would make their books obsolete. Or in other case, those who opposed the printing press. Prior to it, books were copied by hand they were rare works only available to select few. The printing press changed everything and naturally, those made their living copying knowledge by hand weren't happy they were about to become obsolete.
9:45 “We‘ll have to wait for The Winds of Winter for the full plan”. Here, Robert, let me fix that sentence for you. “We’ll have to wait for the Winds of Winter.”
Here, MC-810, let me fix that second sentence for you "We'll never find out about the full plan, because George RR Martin will never release 'The Winds of Winter'."
love IDG's content but do wish he'd use less AI art and less HBO images. There is so much great official and non-official / fan art out there ; i know he uses some but wish that would be the predominant art he used.
Agreed, there are tons of very talented artists who don't mind having their works in essay videos, so long as they are credited. So far as I can remember, David Lightbringer only does this and doesn't ever use AI. And he uses a lot of art, so there's plenty of evidence that there are artists out there willing to work with them
As a nerd, I can't help but view the maesters as something of a intellectual power fantasy. Being prized and appreciated for your learning and viewed as being vitally important to any house, might be a dreamy fantasy for people used to being criticised as know-it-alls. I doubt every maester is privy to the broader goals and long-term objectives of the Citadel at the grand strategy level, there are probably many maesters who are just well-meaning, educated people. People who genuinely find fulfillment and take pride in helping others be the best they can. Indeed, maesters are not only the accountants and scribes of the realm, I also view them as somewhat analogous to a basic form of a Human Services organisation.
@@td8633 Not that weird, really - the medieval church had something of a monopoly on knowledge and scholarship (which, from time to time, stood at odds with its religious function) and the Maesters are basically those functions without an attached religion.
Power fantasy? Tyrion humiliates Grand Maester Pycelle, who is a pathetic toady to Tywin. The Ironborn rape another maester. Lewyn is not especially powerful, though he does manage to save Bran & Rickon before dying.
I hope that there's eventually a scene when the Others finally strike in force that some higher up members of the Maester conspiracy realize how badly they have screwed up. By getting rid of the magics of the living and especially the dragons, they have rendered themselves so vulnerable to the wrath of the Others.
The argument could be made that they are the reason that the Others are returning in the first place. They just don't realize it. And maybe they'll realize this too late!
@@pumas2342 Most systems of magic needs to be thought of as an ecosystem. By getting rid of something you don't like, you might find out that it was holding back something even worse, something that is beyond your power to fight.
@@deinekes9 but martin's seems to be the case when you can erase it all of it for good and the world keeps rolling. I think the show is right about the others being a creation of the children of the forest
They found the great secret of power in westeros : you do not want to be the leader, since there will come a day when that leader loses their power and likely their life. But if you are the trusted advisor everywhere you have more power then each of them,, and when they get replaced the new lord will still need you. So you lose nothing. Leaders come and go but you stayx right where you are. You assure that it stays that way by raising the next generation of leaders.
The Grand Maester that served in the reign of Aerys I (when Bloodraven was Hand/ Master of Whisperers/ briefly Lord Protector of the Realm) was said to be 'steeped in sorcery' - there's really only ever been a couple along the lines of he & Marwyn. I shouldn't wonder if the former survived because he was aligned with Bloodraven (& who knows what his fate was, after the Hand's exile)- & the latter is clearly travelling a lot, so in some ways- he's serving a purpose, in bringing back knowledge & information- but also, he doesn't really seem to have had much in the way of roots/ connection to the newer generation, until recently- Alleras is considered 'a follower' of Marwyn, & he's now taken a passing interest in Sam- but do the rest of the Maesters take it seriously, given how much he comes & goes? Surely, if they did- he wouldn't have made Grand Maester status. And if they _really_ saw him as a threat, they'd find a way to take him out- no matter how cautious he was...?
In light of this video, I remember a line about Prince Rhaegar that even maesters were amazed by Rhaegar's wits even when he was only a child and turned towards becoming a Knight. I think they realised that the child was moving independently of their guidance and coming to conclusions about things based on his own research. Rhaegar knew how to search for sources of information he sought independently on his own and piece together different data to get a better understanding of their world. May be it wasn't just Blackfyre Varys alone operating to sow seeds of dissent between Aerys and Rhaegar, Father and son. May be that's why Rhaegar never hated his Father even when he had gone completely bonkers. As a reader, I sensed respect for his Father within Rhaegar even before he went to meet Robert on Trident. Prince had a sense of pride in being what he was... A Targaryen of Valyrian ancestry. Rhaegar is a key to the puzzle of the Story not just as only a biological vehicle to birth a Hero, but even as a Key person who almost had the right picture... But loved playing his cards too close to his chest like The Batman 😄 Look out for Rhaegar to defeat Maesters who are preventing change and progress through gate keeping taken to the next level 😅
I can't possibly believe this i shall write a letter of protest to the Citadel demanding answers on this matter I trust Maester Hardgrave to send it he always gives great advice
Great vid as always IDG and spot on as usual. A magic-free world is the eventual goal of the masters and they have been and will continue to be active in that process ; even if they do their best to never seem culpable. The maesters do some beneficial things for the realm - learning , healing , communication etc. But given their Hightower origins, patronage and HQ in close proximity to them , should set off alarm bells. Knowingly or not they are the HT''s eyes and ears in every noble House in the realm and can be instructed to give advice in service to their overarching aims. The Citadel is at least partly a considerable arm of influence for the HTs , especially in regards to the nobility and such motivations must always be questioned. And yes magic can be dangerous but i think the main wariness of it from the maesters is it threatens their role and importance. Who needs regular means of healing if magical versions are available or such learning if those with access can convey history and knowledge of a shared consciousness & information vault. Why listen to their strategy or advice if you command dragons , etc. The magical rejection to me seems due to magic being a massive threat to the maesters' position & influence. And not only the magic rejection but the rejection of more fringe ideas like the Alchemists' Guild / pyromancers , Qyburn ilk types and others is holding back general advancement ; technologically , medically and beyond. Again to me if such advancement occurred also threatens the reliance on the maesters. Couple that with their monopolization of knowledge which keeps the populace down and reliant on them. Widespread education and literacy threatens their role in that respect as well. To me i view the Citadel as self-serving , deliberate and somewhat sinister in their motivations and actions.
What i love about this video is that i have seen this video before. But now that i have watched a bunch of David Lightbringers work i have a greater understanding as to WHY the Maesters might be so protective of knowledge and opposed to magic.
House Targaryen - “Dragons were such majestic and wise beings.” Maesters - “Man fuck dragons. All my homies hate dragons.” The reverence of dragons is a direct inverse correlation to the abundance of dragons.
Imagine speaking to a person from 150 years ago, telling them that you're learning a language that allows you to command machines, taught by a bear wizard. You'd be put in a mental asylum. How far we've come...
Oh my goodness, a new IGD video, I feel blessed ❤ I'm guessing you don't do requests, but I just have an idea that maybe you could consider. It's a The Witcher lore topic that I can barely find ANY videos on, though I'm almost certain there must be more info to be found somewhere. The topic I had in mind is: The Gnomes. They're an "Elder race" I think, and they seemingly must have really advanced craft skills. The Gnomish weapons like the Gwyhir (spelling) are very valuable and quite powerful. I have yet to see a single one of them though, so I don't understand what the deal is there, maybe they're extinct I guess? Either way, if there is any substantial info to be found, Id absolutely LOVE to watch a video from you covering that info.
Stormsend before the death of Lucerys in Fire & Blood strikes me as the scene where George really tips the audience off that the Maesters were orchestrating the Dance. The fact that he specifically highlights that Borros doesn’t read the letter but has it whispered to him by his Maester and then he’s offended by the phrasing.
I find it interesting that many view maesters as 100% evil while GRRM himself has said if he existed in the universe, he would be a maester of the citadel himself....I don't think the writer of the story would want to be a part of the part that is 100% evil. I'm assuming the maesters are a manifestation of the old saying " the road to hell is paved with good intentions", meaning the mean well but are perhaps naive to all the consequences of their actions.
I wonder if they're even aware of the Others/whitewalkers, and how much of a threat they are. If they do, how do they plan to deal with them without using magic swords or dragons? If not, how will they react when an unnatural winter is followed by an army of the dead?
Luwin claimed to not believe in magic, but he used the last of his strength while dying to crawl to the weirwood, a magical tree that can hold spirits of those long dead. People don’t want to think he lied to Bran, but don’t forget that he conspired with Catelyn to trick Ned into going to King’s landing and to send Jon to the wall. He’s a rat in a grey robe, like the majority of them.
I am more and more convinced of the hypothesis that the measures caused the doom of Valyria by paying of the faceless men with Lannister gold. It’s sounds crazy, but it makes sense
The status quo seems to be their master plan. As things work, they are usually more powerful than the lords they serve aside from the pillars like Tywin and Ruse. So long as this cycle continues, they hold half of the power without needing a crown or lands. No magic so they retain that power and all the knowledge. Idk. They don’t seem to want to improve things, quite the opposite.
Maesters are just postdoc researchers. Their plans involve solely ensuring there is ample supply of whatever caffeine source is in Westeros, and generous funding available with very easy grant applications processes.
Ahh, Westeros, a land where even the scientists wants to completely destroy something, where the scholars wants to eliminate an entire field of knowledge. Should we just slot this series under “medieval grimdark” then?
I more than anything want to see maester confront Others. Yes they would be proof that magic is evil but they would also be something they fear more than dragons or other magic as while those are wild things there is some control. Others would be a cold harsh truth that the maester and all NEED magic to stop the Others. No logic will get an Other to change their mind and I would love to hear one thank a maester for making the world weak for them.
I would love there to be a scene in Winds if we ever get it, where the Maesters are teaching that magic is not real and then Euron comes bursting in on a Cthulhu monster.
I have a theory based around Daerons absence from house of the dragon...to keep it short though the Maesters are helping the Hightower get dragons again or at least trying. Daeron is being hidden away so that he will survive the war and the current Hightowers are his decendents..Layton might have Valyrian features and thats why he has been hidden/ hiding.
The Hightowers don't hide coz of Valyrian feature, take for example Lynesse. Lord Leyton just seem to be "eccentric". Well, whatever arcane stuff he's doing up there, it better be good enough to stop Euron from destroying Oldtown.
@@nunyabiznes33 i just think its weird that the Hightowers are known for there associations with the Maesters yet currently in the times after the Dance they seem to becoming interested in magic while the Maesters still seem against it....or at least we are told they are...thats only 2-3 generations after Daeron was staying in Oldtown..in short the anti magic region with the anti magic school is for some reason being headed by a newly magically interested family of one time dragon lords....ugh Winds won't get here soon enough..
@@lawdogattorneyatlaw4886 There were other Libraries, just none to come close to that of Alexandria. The Baylonians had the first Library that is known of. The Greeks and the Macedonians had Libraries. But then Alexandria burnt down, and the Romans had zero interest. The Romans thought they peaked and no other knowledge was needed. If it weren't for the Christians, there would be no libraries.
@@thecocktailian2091 the Baghdad House of Wisdom, destroyed by the Mongols, so many books thrown in the river it turned black with ink and Nalanda in India said to have burned for 3 months there were so many manuscripts. Pretending Christians were the only reason, I just 🤦🏼♂️ your ignorance and obvious American bias for Christianity is ridiculous. Many of the classical texts were preserved by Muslims in the middle east during their golden age and only rediscovered by Christian civilisation during the crusades spurring the renaissance.
I think there’s a problem with Martins thinking - how is it irrational to sacrifice to Gods that actually exist and grant powers? I don’t see the irrational element - it’s only irrational to believe in it, if it doesn’t exist.
I actually think the Eragon or Witcher idea of being anti magic, because it is a tool that is used to oppress people (like Varamir six skins etc) and that is a reason to want it’s elimination - like a Christian moral negation of power, rather than disliking it for the sake of it being “anti science” because there is a science of magic to study then, No?
It’s not that it’s irrational, it’s that it is wrong. The people who make sacrifices to gain power are immoral, and I think that we will find that very power ends up betraying them later on. It’s a thematic or moral objection, not a rational or logical one.
If there is a masterplan and Marwyn is against it, how did he become an archmaester? It would make more sense for the conclave to give him an unimportant position and make him the maester of a minor house like for example house Mormont. Instead they made him a member of the conclave.
I forget who said it, maybe Marwin, but they spoke of the maesters never learning anything new, just recycling what already was there. For 'Learned Men', they allowed themselves to stagnate and thus the Realm as a whole dooming everyone to an unfair status quo.
8:41 I don't understand this point, can anyone clarify? I thought the Maesters were a strictly Westerosi institution, how could they have influenced the Doom of Valyria in any way?
I wonder if magical quantity is finite, and if the maesters get their way and people stop believing in it/practicing it then it could overflow and cause calamity or monsters to become rampant. Like a Witcher universe type of scenario
The thing about the Maesters Masterplan is that even if the conspirators tell themselves that they're trying to save humanity from the dangers of magic, maintaining their own power and influence in Westerosi society is a crucial element, perhaps in truth the primary element. Knowledge is power, and the maesters hoard that power like a miser. Magic users have power that can counter their influence, so the maesters do everything they can to delegitimize magic. Now, multiply that attitude a hundredfold: That's how they feel about dragons. I don't think the maesters could have caused the extinction of the Targaryen dragons without the Dance of the Dragons, or they would have already done so. It took civil war between two branches of dragonriders to give them the opening. But... who's to say that they didn't manage to bring about the Dance of the Dragons? Remember, it was the Citadel through Vaegon who suggested choosing Jaehaerys's successor through a Great Council, rather than creating firm rules of succession. By doing that, it was virtually guaranteed that there would be competing claimants sooner or later. And as it happened, it was pretty soon, wasn't it? Hmm, I'm assuming that Aemma was attended by a maester during all her pregnancies and childbirths. And she had all those miscarriages, didn't she? Then she died in childbirth, with her only son shortly afterward. That is very... interesting. People have pointed out that the maternal mortality rate among highborn women in Westeros is extremely high, even for a medieval culture. And by tradition, maesters attend noblewoman and royalty in childbirth, rather than midwives. Ponder, ponder, ponder. Just sayin'.
I dont even think theres some grand Maester conspiracy. I think its just what Pycell said in that deleted scene with Tywin in the show: "I dont want to be the tallest or the most beautiful. I simply wish to remain IN the garden"
IDG mentioned he took a lot of videos down and is redoing them as we've gotten quite a bit more material , books and series and much more general information than at the time he made many of them. So he wants to improve and add some of the new info in , seems he will be remaking quite a few of his older videos. The Traveller's Guide taken down as well and being redone.
Idk I know all of this from the other 2000 videos I watched while waiting for twow but whenever I see that another video is uploaded I just have to instandly watch it :D
The Foundation preserves advanced technological knowledge, while the maesters are much more limited in capacity. For a book that actually focused on the people preserving suck knowledge in a Dark Age (Asimov's Foundation series had the Encyclopedists quickly eclipsed by Mayors), you might be interested in A Canticle for Liebowitz.
8:38 did you mean THE Doom of Valyria? Or did you mean something like the Tragedy at Summerhall? Forgive my ignorance, but I didn't know there were any hints about the Maesters having anything to do with Valyria's fall or how they would go about causing that
You always pick great topics...and adding much more evidence to the theory, conspiracy...i tend to lean towards the latter. Not coincidence✌🏻🐉 weird, I JUST listened to that prologue yesterday🤔
The maesters are consistently skeptical of magic, but there's no actual evidence of them being institutionally hostile to it. You can't effectively oppose something you don't believe exists! Anti-communists didn't deny the existence of communism, rather they wouldn't shut up about it. The Great Council of 101 was advised by a maester... maester Vaegon Targaryen, son of the king. The notion that he was part of an anti-Targaryen conspiracy doesn't make any more sense for him than for maester Aemon Targaryen. Marwyn is plainly wrong about Aemon, who we know was sent to the Wall so he wouldn't compete with Aegon V rather than because the Citadel distrusted him too much to make him an archmaester (like they made Marwyn, whom they appear to leave entirely unimpeded). "Given Haldon's clear anti-magic views" what did he say about magic? And since he doesn't have a castle to which the Citadel can dispatch a representative, how did they get Haldon to the very secret Young Griff?
I wonder with the coming magics will the masters plan start to unravel and see like Sam to go in and maybe be a catalyst as the first living viewer of the night king so interesting
I have a feeling (unfortunately because the shows ending) that the citadel will burn is gonna happen. All the history and stories are lost, and bran is more capable than the remnants of the maesters to maintain and propagate it. The sacking of Baghdad with the mongols is exactly how Euron would do it. It was said the river ran black with ink because the books were dumped in the river. It also reminds me of how squids shoot ink. Like maybe the ink goes out the estuary and towards the krakens he summoned to kill the redwyne fleet.
I don't think is all the Maesters but I'm sure that exist a "inner circle" for lack of better world inside the Cidadel that uses their knowledge and power to shape the world to what they think is the "right path and teachings".
What drives the Citadels hatred of Magic? Could it be that the Citadel was founded by Essosi Scholars seeking Refuge from Valyrian conquests? They all concluded that Magic is the problem and so went about a long game of studying magic and other things in order to end magic. Eventually they destroyed Valyria. Then the Dragons, now they will try again. And unwittingly serve the Others interests.
"The Targaryen without a dragon". That dude rode Balerion the Black Dread. What I also find curious is the fact that the Maesters order where founded by magic users as well. Members of the Alchemist's guild and Warlocks where part of "Peremore's pets". So if there is an agenda, it wasn't there from the beginning.
I've never trusted the Maesters... they always felt like the old Church I was once a member of, similar enough in behavior that I'm very wary of what they want, and who they'll hurt to get it.
Thats just ridiculous , demean himself ? for a channel this size he might do a sponsored video like this once or twice a year. A lot of channels with a following this size do these types of sponsorships all the time and Robert hardly does. Plus content creation takes a lot of time , effort and money ; nothing wrong with supplementing a bit more revenue here there beyond TH-cam monetization which TH-cam takes a significant cut / portion of for themselves.
So the Maesters knew about the faceless men and killed the fire mages thus stopping keeping the 14 flames of the VF from being controlled? Bc the faceless men gave the gift of mercy to the slaves that were all burned up. If the Maesters hired them...that would explain it. Then the danged red comet had to come and magic came back. Men want power and control. Seems like magic is nature on Planetos.
How would the maesters even know about the Faceless Men back then? Even the existence of Braavos was a secret until they felt politically secure enough to reveal themselves.
I think it would be really good if its proven that they do have a master plan, but it isn't to destroy dynesteys or empire's but to simply make sure magic doesn't return because it really is dangerous and their trying to protect the world. I mean think of a world without magic, no dragons burning thousands of people or crops and castles. No others/white walkers would be able to exist in the first place. No people being burned/ sacrificed to gods etc etc.
Don’t forget the Valyrian Freehold. Who enslaved so many people it depopulated the Rhoyne. Millions upon Millions died in the fiery hell of the Valyrian mines. We never really see magic be used for good in the series. Bloodraven was a tyrant, Larys was most likely a manipulative pervert, Dannelle Lothston, Euron Greyjoy… the list is endless.
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You mean their....maesterplan?
😂😅
Dude that is very good😂
Nice
There it is. Nice 😊
Bunch of maesterbaters
I love the detail of master Lewin having a short chain that he constantly tugs at. It can imply that he is relatively uneducated when compared to pycel who has a chain down to his knees, but it is also implying he avoids being a part of the maesterplan
It can also imply that where his maester chain has remained the same size, he has grown himself, and now his chain chafes at his true knowledge. He goes beyond loyalty to whatever castle he is assigned. He protected Bran and Rickon, and even tried to guide Theon to a path where he could still be alive despite his crimes.
The maesters are the HBO marketing team in season 1 "no magic, no magic to see here"
😂 so accurate...
😂 so accurate
Ha🤣
I like the idea they dont try to shut down magic because they dont believe in it, but because they do.
They want to control magic. Deny it everyone else but use for their purposes. Marwin is heading to Dany to use the dragons against the Others
@@michaelbayer5094 In the end though, they want magic gone. They want to control things with knowledge and secrecy. Magic is rather the antithesis of that.
@@thecocktailian2091It kinda seems like Maesters are like librarians who're afraid that internet would make their books obsolete.
Or in other case, those who opposed the printing press. Prior to it, books were copied by hand they were rare works only available to select few. The printing press changed everything and naturally, those made their living copying knowledge by hand weren't happy they were about to become obsolete.
@@Ruosteinenknight fair analogies.
Very Pratchettian
9:45
“We‘ll have to wait for The Winds of Winter for the full plan”.
Here, Robert, let me fix that sentence for you.
“We’ll have to wait for the Winds of Winter.”
Here, MC-810, let me fix that second sentence for you
"We'll never find out about the full plan, because George RR Martin will never release 'The Winds of Winter'."
Winds of Winter is coming
Sure, in the same sort of timeframe as the heat death of the universe. @@RW77777777
@@RW77777777: Brandon Sanderson is waiting for word from Martin's doctors and expects to get to work any day now.
3:41 The AI imaging dipped too deep in the Avatar: The Last Air Bender inkwell here.
Maester Gyatso
love IDG's content but do wish he'd use less AI art and less HBO images. There is so much great official and non-official / fan art out there ; i know he uses some but wish that would be the predominant art he used.
I think it might be to avoid copyright issues @@AlexBB77
Agreed, there are tons of very talented artists who don't mind having their works in essay videos, so long as they are credited. So far as I can remember, David Lightbringer only does this and doesn't ever use AI. And he uses a lot of art, so there's plenty of evidence that there are artists out there willing to work with them
@@AlexBB77is it better to use AI art or steal fan art?
As a nerd, I can't help but view the maesters as something of a intellectual power fantasy. Being prized and appreciated for your learning and viewed as being vitally important to any house, might be a dreamy fantasy for people used to being criticised as know-it-alls. I doubt every maester is privy to the broader goals and long-term objectives of the Citadel at the grand strategy level, there are probably many maesters who are just well-meaning, educated people. People who genuinely find fulfillment and take pride in helping others be the best they can. Indeed, maesters are not only the accountants and scribes of the realm, I also view them as somewhat analogous to a basic form of a Human Services organisation.
That last line made me think of Maesters being the HR department of Westeros and now I cant unthink it.
It's weird that George basically took almost all the tasks that the clergy and priests did on Middle Ages and gave it to the Maesters.
@@td8633 Not that weird, really - the medieval church had something of a monopoly on knowledge and scholarship (which, from time to time, stood at odds with its religious function) and the Maesters are basically those functions without an attached religion.
Yes, that is weird. Basically just made the Faith of the Seven devoid of a lot of nuance and cool plot points, it's pretty emptyas it is.@@rmsgrey
Power fantasy? Tyrion humiliates Grand Maester Pycelle, who is a pathetic toady to Tywin. The Ironborn rape another maester. Lewyn is not especially powerful, though he does manage to save Bran & Rickon before dying.
I hope that there's eventually a scene when the Others finally strike in force that some higher up members of the Maester conspiracy realize how badly they have screwed up. By getting rid of the magics of the living and especially the dragons, they have rendered themselves so vulnerable to the wrath of the Others.
The argument could be made that they are the reason that the Others are returning in the first place. They just don't realize it. And maybe they'll realize this too late!
Sam might have the guts for an "I could have told you so".
The others are clearly magical beens, so are the prove that the maesters are right about getting rid of all that shit
@@pumas2342 Most systems of magic needs to be thought of as an ecosystem. By getting rid of something you don't like, you might find out that it was holding back something even worse, something that is beyond your power to fight.
@@deinekes9 but martin's seems to be the case when you can erase it all of it for good and the world keeps rolling. I think the show is right about the others being a creation of the children of the forest
The grey rats scurry in every castle and whisper in every ear..........
They found the great secret of power in westeros : you do not want to be the leader, since there will come a day when that leader loses their power and likely their life. But if you are the trusted advisor everywhere you have more power then each of them,, and when they get replaced the new lord will still need you. So you lose nothing. Leaders come and go but you stayx right where you are. You assure that it stays that way by raising the next generation of leaders.
The Grand Maester that served in the reign of Aerys I (when Bloodraven was Hand/ Master of Whisperers/ briefly Lord Protector of the Realm) was said to be 'steeped in sorcery' - there's really only ever been a couple along the lines of he & Marwyn.
I shouldn't wonder if the former survived because he was aligned with Bloodraven (& who knows what his fate was, after the Hand's exile)- & the latter is clearly travelling a lot, so in some ways- he's serving a purpose, in bringing back knowledge & information- but also, he doesn't really seem to have had much in the way of roots/ connection to the newer generation, until recently- Alleras is considered 'a follower' of Marwyn, & he's now taken a passing interest in Sam- but do the rest of the Maesters take it seriously, given how much he comes & goes?
Surely, if they did- he wouldn't have made Grand Maester status. And if they _really_ saw him as a threat, they'd find a way to take him out- no matter how cautious he was...?
the image of young griff looks suspiciously like Timothee Chalamet. Great video as always!
Agreed
I looked at that image, and thought to myself: "When did PAUL ATREIDES wind up on Westeros?!!?" lol
@@jacob4920 Muad' Dib is Azor Ahai confirmed!
In light of this video,
I remember a line about Prince Rhaegar that even maesters were amazed by Rhaegar's wits even when he was only a child and turned towards becoming a Knight.
I think they realised that the child was moving independently of their guidance and coming to conclusions about things based on his own research. Rhaegar knew how to search for sources of information he sought independently on his own and piece together different data to get a better understanding of their world.
May be it wasn't just Blackfyre Varys alone operating to sow seeds of dissent between Aerys and Rhaegar, Father and son.
May be that's why Rhaegar never hated his Father even when he had gone completely bonkers. As a reader, I sensed respect for his Father within Rhaegar even before he went to meet Robert on Trident.
Prince had a sense of pride in being what he was... A Targaryen of Valyrian ancestry. Rhaegar is a key to the puzzle of the Story not just as only a biological vehicle to birth a Hero, but even as a Key person who almost had the right picture... But loved playing his cards too close to his chest like The Batman 😄
Look out for Rhaegar to defeat Maesters who are preventing change and progress through gate keeping taken to the next level 😅
Look out? Rhaegar died before the series began. And Aerys really was crazy. He didn't need anyone's help, Varys included, to be a nut.
I can't possibly believe this i shall write a letter of protest to the Citadel demanding answers on this matter I trust Maester Hardgrave to send it he always gives great advice
I dunno, man. I just find it weird that the maesters have been kicked out of 109 lord's halls.
Every single time.
Early life
Great vid as always IDG and spot on as usual. A magic-free world is the eventual goal of the masters and they have been and will continue to be active in that process ; even if they do their best to never seem culpable. The maesters do some beneficial things for the realm - learning , healing , communication etc. But given their Hightower origins, patronage and HQ in close proximity to them , should set off alarm bells. Knowingly or not they are the HT''s eyes and ears in every noble House in the realm and can be instructed to give advice in service to their overarching aims. The Citadel is at least partly a considerable arm of influence for the HTs , especially in regards to the nobility and such motivations must always be questioned.
And yes magic can be dangerous but i think the main wariness of it from the maesters is it threatens their role and importance. Who needs regular means of healing if magical versions are available or such learning if those with access can convey history and knowledge of a shared consciousness & information vault. Why listen to their strategy or advice if you command dragons , etc. The magical rejection to me seems due to magic being a massive threat to the maesters' position & influence. And not only the magic rejection but the rejection of more fringe ideas like the Alchemists' Guild / pyromancers , Qyburn ilk types and others is holding back general advancement ; technologically , medically and beyond. Again to me if such advancement occurred also threatens the reliance on the maesters. Couple that with their monopolization of knowledge which keeps the populace down and reliant on them. Widespread education and literacy threatens their role in that respect as well.
To me i view the Citadel as self-serving , deliberate and somewhat sinister in their motivations and actions.
I love how the half maester looks like Dr Yueh from Dune and faegon looks like Paul
When did Paul Atreides find his way to Westeros?!!? lol
I suddenly want to see dragons fighting sand worms!
I like lady Dustin's condemnation of the "grey rats"
"we'll find out when twow comes out"...boy this hurt lol
So at least we know we'll NEVER find out...
The only case where the Starks may turn out to be wrong...
turtle wow is great
join my guild
What i love about this video is that i have seen this video before. But now that i have watched a bunch of David Lightbringers work i have a greater understanding as to WHY the Maesters might be so protective of knowledge and opposed to magic.
I just found Satan and he is a goat.
Mike Tyson said it best: “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
House Targaryen
- “Dragons were such majestic and wise beings.”
Maesters
- “Man fuck dragons. All my homies hate dragons.”
The reverence of dragons is a direct inverse correlation to the abundance of dragons.
Next video: is house Hightower westeros' Illuminati?
Thank you so much for always making very awesome in-depth videos you have helped to slay the Beast that is boredom!!!
Imagine speaking to a person from 150 years ago, telling them that you're learning a language that allows you to command machines, taught by a bear wizard. You'd be put in a mental asylum. How far we've come...
Oh my goodness, a new IGD video, I feel blessed ❤
I'm guessing you don't do requests, but I just have an idea that maybe you could consider. It's a The Witcher lore topic that I can barely find ANY videos on, though I'm almost certain there must be more info to be found somewhere. The topic I had in mind is: The Gnomes. They're an "Elder race" I think, and they seemingly must have really advanced craft skills. The Gnomish weapons like the Gwyhir (spelling) are very valuable and quite powerful. I have yet to see a single one of them though, so I don't understand what the deal is there, maybe they're extinct I guess? Either way, if there is any substantial info to be found, Id absolutely LOVE to watch a video from you covering that info.
Stormsend before the death of Lucerys in Fire & Blood strikes me as the scene where George really tips the audience off that the Maesters were orchestrating the Dance. The fact that he specifically highlights that Borros doesn’t read the letter but has it whispered to him by his Maester and then he’s offended by the phrasing.
I find it interesting that many view maesters as 100% evil while GRRM himself has said if he existed in the universe, he would be a maester of the citadel himself....I don't think the writer of the story would want to be a part of the part that is 100% evil. I'm assuming the maesters are a manifestation of the old saying " the road to hell is paved with good intentions", meaning the mean well but are perhaps naive to all the consequences of their actions.
Maester Marwin is Jim Broadbent. I can't help thinking of Hot Fuzz. "The Grreaterrr Goood."
crusty jugglers..
@@videnez Thanks for being there.
The greater good!
A GREAT BIG BUSHY BEARD
No luck catching them dragons then?
I wonder if they're even aware of the Others/whitewalkers, and how much of a threat they are.
If they do, how do they plan to deal with them without using magic swords or dragons?
If not, how will they react when an unnatural winter is followed by an army of the dead?
Luwin claimed to not believe in magic, but he used the last of his strength while dying to crawl to the weirwood, a magical tree that can hold spirits of those long dead. People don’t want to think he lied to Bran, but don’t forget that he conspired with Catelyn to trick Ned into going to King’s landing and to send Jon to the wall. He’s a rat in a grey robe, like the majority of them.
Well, that weirwood happen to be beside a pool that's the only remaining source of water after everything was destroyed.
@@nunyabiznes33 I don’t remember that being the case, but I’ll take your word for it. He is definitely in the tree now though.
I am more and more convinced of the hypothesis that the measures caused the doom of Valyria by paying of the faceless men with Lannister gold. It’s sounds crazy, but it makes sense
The status quo seems to be their master plan. As things work, they are usually more powerful than the lords they serve aside from the pillars like Tywin and Ruse. So long as this cycle continues, they hold half of the power without needing a crown or lands. No magic so they retain that power and all the knowledge. Idk. They don’t seem to want to improve things, quite the opposite.
the image of young Griff sure looks like TImothy Chalemet
Ngl, he would be a decent casting for him.
I was wondering if they were making a spin-off with him in consideration for the role
@@RickityKricks unless they disregard HBO's GOT series, idk how they'd make a spinoff for him. He's deeply ingrained into ASOIAF
Maesters are just postdoc researchers. Their plans involve solely ensuring there is ample supply of whatever caffeine source is in Westeros, and generous funding available with very easy grant applications processes.
Ahh, Westeros, a land where even the scientists wants to completely destroy something, where the scholars wants to eliminate an entire field of knowledge. Should we just slot this series under “medieval grimdark” then?
I more than anything want to see maester confront Others. Yes they would be proof that magic is evil but they would also be something they fear more than dragons or other magic as while those are wild things there is some control. Others would be a cold harsh truth that the maester and all NEED magic to stop the Others. No logic will get an Other to change their mind and I would love to hear one thank a maester for making the world weak for them.
But what is Boots the Bear Wizard's tax policy?
Was surprised you only gave Lady Barbrey a short cameo. I feel like she’s one of your favorite characters!
Great insight as usual though!
The maesters think they are Bene Gesserit
have been waiting for this video for soo long! ty robert!
babe wake up, new In Deep Geek video just dropped
@InDeepGeek - what happened to the robert, lyanna, rhaegar playlist??
🎵 Who robs cave fish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscar night? We do! We do!🎵
🎶Who keeps the metric system down.🎶
🎶We do! we do! 🎶
🎶Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps?🎶
Simpsoian Stonemasonesque maesters, please!
I would love there to be a scene in Winds if we ever get it, where the Maesters are teaching that magic is not real and then Euron comes bursting in on a Cthulhu monster.
Ever notice how the Maester's push for open borders for every city except for inside the Citadel? How peculiar.
Reminds me of a “chosen” people.
What would be the end game?
@@aSimpleTailor serfdom. Where the many serve the “chosen ones”. It’s playing out in real life right now.
All hail the Hightower! 😂
I have a theory based around Daerons absence from house of the dragon...to keep it short though the Maesters are helping the Hightower get dragons again or at least trying. Daeron is being hidden away so that he will survive the war and the current Hightowers are his decendents..Layton might have Valyrian features and thats why he has been hidden/ hiding.
The Hightowers don't hide coz of Valyrian feature, take for example Lynesse. Lord Leyton just seem to be "eccentric". Well, whatever arcane stuff he's doing up there, it better be good enough to stop Euron from destroying Oldtown.
@@nunyabiznes33 i just think its weird that the Hightowers are known for there associations with the Maesters yet currently in the times after the Dance they seem to becoming interested in magic while the Maesters still seem against it....or at least we are told they are...thats only 2-3 generations after Daeron was staying in Oldtown..in short the anti magic region with the anti magic school is for some reason being headed by a newly magically interested family of one time dragon lords....ugh Winds won't get here soon enough..
The content we’ll get from In Deep Geek once the next book releases 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'm guessing the Citadel = the Great Library of Alexandria - GRRM has a great eye for bringing history into his story.
If so, it's a very poor analogy. There are almost no similarities (except some purely superficial ones) between the two.
And theres the lighthouse of alexandria and the hightower. And in Alexandria everything burns mysteriously down.
yes because that was the only library.
@@lawdogattorneyatlaw4886 There were other Libraries, just none to come close to that of Alexandria. The Baylonians had the first Library that is known of. The Greeks and the Macedonians had Libraries. But then Alexandria burnt down, and the Romans had zero interest. The Romans thought they peaked and no other knowledge was needed. If it weren't for the Christians, there would be no libraries.
@@thecocktailian2091 the Baghdad House of Wisdom, destroyed by the Mongols, so many books thrown in the river it turned black with ink and Nalanda in India said to have burned for 3 months there were so many manuscripts.
Pretending Christians were the only reason, I just 🤦🏼♂️ your ignorance and obvious American bias for Christianity is ridiculous. Many of the classical texts were preserved by Muslims in the middle east during their golden age and only rediscovered by Christian civilisation during the crusades spurring the renaissance.
I think there’s a problem with Martins thinking - how is it irrational to sacrifice to Gods that actually exist and grant powers? I don’t see the irrational element - it’s only irrational to believe in it, if it doesn’t exist.
I actually think the Eragon or Witcher idea of being anti magic, because it is a tool that is used to oppress people (like Varamir six skins etc) and that is a reason to want it’s elimination - like a Christian moral negation of power, rather than disliking it for the sake of it being “anti science” because there is a science of magic to study then, No?
It’s not that it’s irrational, it’s that it is wrong. The people who make sacrifices to gain power are immoral, and I think that we will find that very power ends up betraying them later on. It’s a thematic or moral objection, not a rational or logical one.
@@HenryBraun13 for sure, but the maesters are fine with killing and murder and intrigue
If there is a masterplan and Marwyn is against it, how did he become an archmaester? It would make more sense for the conclave to give him an unimportant position and make him the maester of a minor house like for example house Mormont. Instead they made him a member of the conclave.
Do they have a link for mastery of fishing? If so, would that make them Maester Baiters?
Everyone has a masterplan but GGRM
I forget who said it, maybe Marwin, but they spoke of the maesters never learning anything new, just recycling what already was there. For 'Learned Men', they allowed themselves to stagnate and thus the Realm as a whole dooming everyone to an unfair status quo.
8:41 I don't understand this point, can anyone clarify? I thought the Maesters were a strictly Westerosi institution, how could they have influenced the Doom of Valyria in any way?
Search a video called What are the maesters up to? By Alt Shift X. That should explain a bit more what the rumours are with their part in the Doom.
Did the Robert's Rebellion series of videos get delisted? I wanted to watch it again, but I couldn't find it.
Good stuff as per!
I wonder if magical quantity is finite, and if the maesters get their way and people stop believing in it/practicing it then it could overflow and cause calamity or monsters to become rampant. Like a Witcher universe type of scenario
The thing about the Maesters Masterplan is that even if the conspirators tell themselves that they're trying to save humanity from the dangers of magic, maintaining their own power and influence in Westerosi society is a crucial element, perhaps in truth the primary element. Knowledge is power, and the maesters hoard that power like a miser. Magic users have power that can counter their influence, so the maesters do everything they can to delegitimize magic.
Now, multiply that attitude a hundredfold: That's how they feel about dragons. I don't think the maesters could have caused the extinction of the Targaryen dragons without the Dance of the Dragons, or they would have already done so. It took civil war between two branches of dragonriders to give them the opening.
But... who's to say that they didn't manage to bring about the Dance of the Dragons? Remember, it was the Citadel through Vaegon who suggested choosing Jaehaerys's successor through a Great Council, rather than creating firm rules of succession. By doing that, it was virtually guaranteed that there would be competing claimants sooner or later.
And as it happened, it was pretty soon, wasn't it? Hmm, I'm assuming that Aemma was attended by a maester during all her pregnancies and childbirths. And she had all those miscarriages, didn't she? Then she died in childbirth, with her only son shortly afterward. That is very... interesting.
People have pointed out that the maternal mortality rate among highborn women in Westeros is extremely high, even for a medieval culture. And by tradition, maesters attend noblewoman and royalty in childbirth, rather than midwives. Ponder, ponder, ponder. Just sayin'.
I like the scruffy one on the bottom left.
I dont even think theres some grand Maester conspiracy. I think its just what Pycell said in that deleted scene with Tywin in the show:
"I dont want to be the tallest or the most beautiful. I simply wish to remain IN the garden"
What happened to your Robert’s Rebellion videos? Were they taken down?
oh no
IDG mentioned he took a lot of videos down and is redoing them as we've gotten quite a bit more material , books and series and much more general information than at the time he made many of them. So he wants to improve and add some of the new info in , seems he will be remaking quite a few of his older videos. The Traveller's Guide taken down as well and being redone.
@@AlexBB77 What new books?
@@clownpendotfartI believe the travelers guide videos were released before fire and blood.
He mentioned redoing previous locations and adding new places like Fair Isle and the fist of the first men among others
Idk I know all of this from the other 2000 videos I watched while waiting for twow but whenever I see that another video is uploaded I just have to instandly watch it :D
Do you think maesters have some history that they pass on to only other maesters and never outsiders?
The maesters are basically the foundation
The Foundation preserves advanced technological knowledge, while the maesters are much more limited in capacity. For a book that actually focused on the people preserving suck knowledge in a Dark Age (Asimov's Foundation series had the Encyclopedists quickly eclipsed by Mayors), you might be interested in A Canticle for Liebowitz.
The story would get wild if a white walker got control of a dragon and flew it to the great tower and burned it to the ground.
I am delighted with this video. Excellent topic and, of course, excellent content as always, Robert. A big hug from Puerto Williams, Chile 🇨🇱
8:38 did you mean THE Doom of Valyria? Or did you mean something like the Tragedy at Summerhall? Forgive my ignorance, but I didn't know there were any hints about the Maesters having anything to do with Valyria's fall or how they would go about causing that
Is there an in deep geek video on the origin and establishment of the citadel?!?
Why did you private a bunch of videos in your Robert's Rebellion playlist? I loved those videos!
You always pick great topics...and adding much more evidence to the theory, conspiracy...i tend to lean towards the latter. Not coincidence✌🏻🐉 weird, I JUST listened to that prologue yesterday🤔
The maesters are consistently skeptical of magic, but there's no actual evidence of them being institutionally hostile to it. You can't effectively oppose something you don't believe exists! Anti-communists didn't deny the existence of communism, rather they wouldn't shut up about it.
The Great Council of 101 was advised by a maester... maester Vaegon Targaryen, son of the king. The notion that he was part of an anti-Targaryen conspiracy doesn't make any more sense for him than for maester Aemon Targaryen. Marwyn is plainly wrong about Aemon, who we know was sent to the Wall so he wouldn't compete with Aegon V rather than because the Citadel distrusted him too much to make him an archmaester (like they made Marwyn, whom they appear to leave entirely unimpeded).
"Given Haldon's clear anti-magic views" what did he say about magic? And since he doesn't have a castle to which the Citadel can dispatch a representative, how did they get Haldon to the very secret Young Griff?
Imagine living in a world with magic and having the hubris to think you can snuff it out.
Young Griff...played by Timothy Chalamet 😆
I wonder with the coming magics will the masters plan start to unravel and see like Sam to go in and maybe be a catalyst as the first living viewer of the night king so interesting
I have a feeling (unfortunately because the shows ending) that the citadel will burn is gonna happen. All the history and stories are lost, and bran is more capable than the remnants of the maesters to maintain and propagate it. The sacking of Baghdad with the mongols is exactly how Euron would do it. It was said the river ran black with ink because the books were dumped in the river. It also reminds me of how squids shoot ink. Like maybe the ink goes out the estuary and towards the krakens he summoned to kill the redwyne fleet.
It's always the quiet ones who are the most dangerous.
Maybe I missed an announcement or something but is there a reason that all the traveler guides to both Westeros and Essos are gone ??
I don't think is all the Maesters but I'm sure that exist a "inner circle" for lack of better world inside the Cidadel that uses their knowledge and power to shape the world to what they think is the "right path and teachings".
‘revenge of the nerds’
The Maesters must have some Mastery of Magic if they have been conspiring against it for centuries.
Can we get a lore video on the bear wizard boots?
What drives the Citadels hatred of Magic? Could it be that the Citadel was founded by Essosi Scholars seeking Refuge from Valyrian conquests? They all concluded that Magic is the problem and so went about a long game of studying magic and other things in order to end magic. Eventually they destroyed Valyria. Then the Dragons, now they will try again. And unwittingly serve the Others interests.
what is the sigificance of showing pycelle old and crotchety, but when is alone in his room is much more nimble, what is he hiding?
He just want to stay in the garden
Rectangles. It's in the rectangles.
"The Targaryen without a dragon". That dude rode Balerion the Black Dread.
What I also find curious is the fact that the Maesters order where founded by magic users as well. Members of the Alchemist's guild and Warlocks where part of "Peremore's pets". So if there is an agenda, it wasn't there from the beginning.
Balerion was dead by the time of the council
Yeah, but he kind of hated it. He was one of the Targaryens least enamoured with dragons.
He only rode Balerion less than a handful of times
Viserys rode Balerion one time, and he cut the trip short bc he could feel that the dragon wasn't up for it. Balerion died soon after.
@@JC-gn7lq TY for the clarification, I had forgotten the details
I've never trusted the Maesters... they always felt like the old Church I was once a member of, similar enough in behavior that I'm very wary of what they want, and who they'll hurt to get it.
Basically the Maesters have been keeping Magic down for centuries. They are its old enemies.
I sure hope GRRM gets around to finishing his books
Maester Pilos is looking like a snack
There's room for magic in the world of grey rats
Lol and all this because a dragon once took a flying dump on the citadel..
1:33 Or as the maesters put it "Magic is bad, mkay. And if you do magic, you are bad m'kay? M'kay."
Did you used to have a playlist called “Robert, Rhaegar, Lyanna, and all that” or am I imagining things?
The master's Maesterplan, more like
the maesters are just some big old nerds trying to math the dragons away, fuc_en classic!
Oh Robert you don't need to demean yourself with sponsorship. At least you keep it to the end
Thats just ridiculous , demean himself ? for a channel this size he might do a sponsored video like this once or twice a year. A lot of channels with a following this size do these types of sponsorships all the time and Robert hardly does. Plus content creation takes a lot of time , effort and money ; nothing wrong with supplementing a bit more revenue here there beyond TH-cam monetization which TH-cam takes a significant cut / portion of for themselves.
Maistors = Bene Gesserit
So the Maesters knew about the faceless men and killed the fire mages thus stopping keeping the 14 flames of the VF from being controlled? Bc the faceless men gave the gift of mercy to the slaves that were all burned up. If the Maesters hired them...that would explain it. Then the danged red comet had to come and magic came back. Men want power and control. Seems like magic is nature on Planetos.
How would the maesters even know about the Faceless Men back then? Even the existence of Braavos was a secret until they felt politically secure enough to reveal themselves.
I think it would be really good if its proven that they do have a master plan, but it isn't to destroy dynesteys or empire's but to simply make sure magic doesn't return because it really is dangerous and their trying to protect the world.
I mean think of a world without magic, no dragons burning thousands of people or crops and castles. No others/white walkers would be able to exist in the first place. No people being burned/ sacrificed to gods etc etc.
Don’t forget the Valyrian Freehold. Who enslaved so many people it depopulated the Rhoyne. Millions upon Millions died in the fiery hell of the Valyrian mines.
We never really see magic be used for good in the series. Bloodraven was a tyrant, Larys was most likely a manipulative pervert, Dannelle Lothston, Euron Greyjoy… the list is endless.