I did a test (years back) using a gravity drop target that was triggered on release. Holding the bottom of an 8" ring, the arrow had to hit within that ring to qualify as a kill at the given range. 150fps bow (recurve) was 8 yards. 280fps compound (hoyt) was 14 yards. 330fps (Bowtech) was 18 yards. Many people will say, the further away the less the reaction and I too believe this, having seen proof positive of this fact thousands of times. BUT... All I ever see people speak of is the reaction to the shot. People never speak to natural movement. You can read a deer but you cant read a deers mind. At 60 yards (for instance) if a deer turns to get a mouth full of clover to it's right/left as the trigger is pulled, the shot isnt going to hit where the point of aim was. Also (reading deer) I have seen (too many times) where a deer is totally calm and explodes at the crack of a twig or some other such noise. I have seen deer seemingly ready to explode that simply freeze in the same scenario. You cannot read a deers mind and all deer react differently at times. If you watch enough deer hunting videos, you will see just how differently deer react to the same situation. My point is that since you cannot anticipate the reaction and what form it will take, the only thing you can do (to achieve 100% success) is to stay inside the distance of where any movement will not be possible to totally avoid certain impact within the kill area. It's bowhunting. If you want 100% chance of success out there in the middle of the field then get a gun.
Great video Matt and sage advice for sure! I'm shooting a Wicked Ridge M-370 now with an advertised speed of 370 FPS, but it rarely ever shoots beyond 350 FPS. I missed a buck at 20 yards because my bolt hit a branch! That said I took five last Fall all within 20 yards! My limit even with a crossbow is under 30 yards! Even bullets are not traveling the same speed at 100 yards as they are from the muzzle! It's really common sense and being a considerate hunter & sportsman!
Awesome. Interestingly, I have always regarded 40 yards as my limit with 125 grain broadheads. With 100 grain broadheads, I pushed it out to 45 yards (at 425 fps). I totally agree with the distance limits in this video and the reasons/caution mentioned.
I agree and the main thing to remember is our bolts are travelling well below the speed of sound (1125.32 fps) at approximately 1/4 the speed to 1/3 the speed of sound! Which means the snap or crack sound of your crossbow reaches the deer’s ear 3 to 4 times faster than your bolt hits it’s target! Deer are always on alert and have much fast reflexes than humans and react almost instantly to threat and sound!
Tim wells just killed an elk at 120 yards. The elk didn't twitch until the arrow was almost to him. Proof, that at longer ranges deer duck the arrow noise and not the bow noise. You will never beat any deer. Bow hunting is a crap shoot as to whether the animal will move or stay. Some don't move. Some do. But it's clear that arrow flight noise is the major factor.
So the noise from bow or error at distance dissipate and not significant enough to alert the deer. But once reach certain closeness it will do. I bet 5he bow sound if large enough can spook a deer even far away. So it is important to have a quiet bow then arrow noise will become main factor. Faster bow has a huge advantage here
Another great video Matt! This really helps put things into an easy format to comprehend. If your equipment can get an arrow to the target (deer) before the average deer can react, there’s an almost 100% chance you’ll hit precisely where you’re aiming. Once you start going beyond the target’s reaction time, you start bringing in more and more variables the farther beyond that reaction you go. Is the deer going to move, freeze, duck, jump, turn? These all alter the point of impact from the point of aim. Granted you still have a “kill zone” on the target. The target can move slightly and you’ll still hit in the kill zone and impact will be slightly off from point of aim. That gives you a small margin of error and brings reality in vs “what’s good on paper” Like you stated, no gravity, wind,etc we’re taken into account.
If you can keep your speed around 400 FPS at launch with an approx 400 grain tw bolt and it is truly a clear shot, 40 yds. should be no problem, unless they have an eyeball on you and react to a visual cue vs. reacting to sound only, Growing Deer TV has an awesome audio engineer test on this, speed vs. deer reaction time it matters. -W. Liggett
Just bought this scope for my Barnett XP 380 and I was wondering if I had any questions about sighting it in if you would be able to lend some knowledge if I need it?
@@draggindeeroutdoors Thank you brother, I got it dialed in at 20,30,40, and 50yds lil while ago. Didn't have time to see what it was going to do with the broadheads I shoot which sux but it's really good with the field points. I'm new to the crossbow scene but it's the only thing I can hunt with other than a compound bow because I made some bad choices in life early on. It is what it is and I actually like hunting with a crossbow.
I'm a geek. I have an EXCEL spreadsheet that calculates kinetic energy from fps and grain weight for my different setups. From there I can see what is suitable for ethically killing an animal by size. Highlighted coloured cells show the appropriate game for the energy calculated. Green - all good with appropriate animal names, orange - marginal with appropriate animals name, and red - no animal names, text says you are just being cruel.
All charts and no practicality. I've disproven this psuedoscience in both theory and practice. It's just plain wrong. This is all assuming the deer is ready to run by the time you shoot your crossbow. Especially with how quiet crossbows are today, at 40 yards the sound is already to minimal to alarm them to the point of running. I shoot a 460fps crossbow and I've taken plenty of deer at 60 yards that were 100% aware of my presence. However the sound was probably no more than a branch snapping to them at that distance and the bolt landed EXACTLY where I wanted it to each time. I've also taken deer at 40 yards only for deer 70 yards in an opposite direction to keep feeding with ZERO alarm...
I did a test (years back) using a gravity drop target that was triggered on release. Holding the bottom of an 8" ring, the arrow had to hit within that ring to qualify as a kill at the given range. 150fps bow (recurve) was 8 yards. 280fps compound (hoyt) was 14 yards. 330fps (Bowtech) was 18 yards.
Many people will say, the further away the less the reaction and I too believe this, having seen proof positive of this fact thousands of times. BUT...
All I ever see people speak of is the reaction to the shot. People never speak to natural movement. You can read a deer but you cant read a deers mind. At 60 yards (for instance) if a deer turns to get a mouth full of clover to it's right/left as the trigger is pulled, the shot isnt going to hit where the point of aim was.
Also (reading deer) I have seen (too many times) where a deer is totally calm and explodes at the crack of a twig or some other such noise. I have seen deer seemingly ready to explode that simply freeze in the same scenario. You cannot read a deers mind and all deer react differently at times. If you watch enough deer hunting videos, you will see just how differently deer react to the same situation.
My point is that since you cannot anticipate the reaction and what form it will take, the only thing you can do (to achieve 100% success) is to stay inside the distance of where any movement will not be possible to totally avoid certain impact within the kill area. It's bowhunting. If you want 100% chance of success out there in the middle of the field then get a gun.
Great video Matt and sage advice for sure! I'm shooting a Wicked Ridge M-370 now with an advertised speed of 370 FPS, but it rarely ever shoots beyond 350 FPS. I missed a buck at 20 yards because my bolt hit a branch! That said I took five last Fall all within 20 yards! My limit even with a crossbow is under 30 yards! Even bullets are not traveling the same speed at 100 yards as they are from the muzzle! It's really common sense and being a considerate hunter & sportsman!
Thank you, Ron!!
Awesome. Interestingly, I have always regarded 40 yards as my limit with 125 grain broadheads. With 100 grain broadheads, I pushed it out to 45 yards (at 425 fps). I totally agree with the distance limits in this video and the reasons/caution mentioned.
A lot of factors play into shot distance, but the closer the better 👍
I agree and the main thing to remember is our bolts are travelling well below the speed of sound (1125.32 fps) at approximately 1/4 the speed to 1/3 the speed of sound! Which means the snap or crack sound of your crossbow reaches the deer’s ear 3 to 4 times faster than your bolt hits it’s target!
Deer are always on alert and have much fast reflexes than humans and react almost instantly to threat and sound!
Great intro to getting a perfect shot
Thank you!!
Tim wells just killed an elk at 120 yards. The elk didn't twitch until the arrow was almost to him. Proof, that at longer ranges deer duck the arrow noise and not the bow noise. You will never beat any deer. Bow hunting is a crap shoot as to whether the animal will move or stay. Some don't move. Some do. But it's clear that arrow flight noise is the major factor.
So the noise from bow or error at distance dissipate and not significant enough to alert the deer. But once reach certain closeness it will do. I bet 5he bow sound if large enough can spook a deer even far away. So it is important to have a quiet bow then arrow noise will become main factor.
Faster bow has a huge advantage here
Another great video Matt! This really helps put things into an easy format to comprehend. If your equipment can get an arrow to the target (deer) before the average deer can react, there’s an almost 100% chance you’ll hit precisely where you’re aiming.
Once you start going beyond the target’s reaction time, you start bringing in more and more variables the farther beyond that reaction you go. Is the deer going to move, freeze, duck, jump, turn? These all alter the point of impact from the point of aim.
Granted you still have a “kill zone” on the target. The target can move slightly and you’ll still hit in the kill zone and impact will be slightly off from point of aim. That gives you a small margin of error and brings reality in vs “what’s good on paper”
Like you stated, no gravity, wind,etc we’re taken into account.
Thanks Les! Heard about your buck, congrats!!
That was an awesome compilation. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. Very educational.
Thanks, Jim!
If you can keep your speed around 400 FPS at launch with an approx 400 grain tw bolt and it is truly a clear shot, 40 yds. should be no problem, unless they have an eyeball on you and react to a visual cue vs. reacting to sound only, Growing Deer TV has an awesome audio engineer test on this, speed vs. deer reaction time it matters. -W. Liggett
I’ll have to check that out! Thanks!
Just bought this scope for my Barnett XP 380 and I was wondering if I had any questions about sighting it in if you would be able to lend some knowledge if I need it?
Awesome! If ya have questions email me, draggindeer@gmail.
@@draggindeeroutdoors Thank you brother, I got it dialed in at 20,30,40, and 50yds lil while ago. Didn't have time to see what it was going to do with the broadheads I shoot which sux but it's really good with the field points. I'm new to the crossbow scene but it's the only thing I can hunt with other than a compound bow because I made some bad choices in life early on. It is what it is and I actually like hunting with a crossbow.
Iteresting, I think you're absolutely right!! What about distance reguarding hogs, in your opinion?
I’ve never really hunted hogs, my guess would be their reaction time is similar to whitetails.
@@draggindeeroutdoors Thanks
Nicely presented 👍..I totally agree
Thanks, Robert!
Nice. Subscribed because of this one.
Awesome, thank you!
I'm a geek. I have an EXCEL spreadsheet that calculates kinetic energy from fps and grain weight for my different setups. From there I can see what is suitable for ethically killing an animal by size. Highlighted coloured cells show the appropriate game for the energy calculated. Green - all good with appropriate animal names, orange - marginal with appropriate animals name, and red - no animal names, text says you are just being cruel.
1 yard for every 10 fps the arrow/bolt is doing when it leaves the bow .
Can't compare a cross bow to a compound bow , noise factor as well as speed difference is to great.
anyone who shoots past 40 yards is asking for trouble...
I agree with ya there!
30 yds is my comfort distance
Me likie
All charts and no practicality. I've disproven this psuedoscience in both theory and practice. It's just plain wrong.
This is all assuming the deer is ready to run by the time you shoot your crossbow. Especially with how quiet crossbows are today, at 40 yards the sound is already to minimal to alarm them to the point of running. I shoot a 460fps crossbow and I've taken plenty of deer at 60 yards that were 100% aware of my presence. However the sound was probably no more than a branch snapping to them at that distance and the bolt landed EXACTLY where I wanted it to each time. I've also taken deer at 40 yards only for deer 70 yards in an opposite direction to keep feeding with ZERO alarm...
You decide what are ethical shot ranges, not me. I’m just offering some numbers and data points to consider. Best of luck in the woods.