PLAY TO WIN ANSWERS THE COMMUNITY'S QUESTIONS - Q&A EPISODE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Dylan and Cam answer questions posed to them by Patreon Supporters
PATREON - / playtowin
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It's crazy to hear that you two have been friends for only about 5 years. Every episode you guys sound like you've been friends with each other since at least Middle School lol
Damn, I can't believe Cam pulled out that hilarious joke, that's the best thing I've ever heard in my life, I fell out of my chair and I can now jump 15% higher
Hullbreacher needed the line of text "If a spell or ability you don't control would cause your opponent to draw a card"
That way it hates on extra card draw without the combo wheel potential.
I think another viable change is to just make the treasures in addition to the cards drawn, instead of replacing them. If you got mana for every card someone drew like Smothering Tithe I don't think it would be ban worthy
@@TheMonsterClipsitd still be a lot stronger than tithe for having flash, being cheaper, and not giving your opponents the option to deny treasures
Hull and Notion Thief are great cards but their interaction with wheels is so cancer
@@fosterdawson7339 And in casual would be a lot worse for not caring about the natural draw step card.
I think Hull Breacher could have kept the same effect but only if it was on ETB and not a continuous effect
my controversial opinion is that that Tasha's Hideous Laughter is a great cedh card.
Hear me out, I test it in Stella and one day I will copy it and/or Fork it and exile everyone's wincons GG ez
Honestly the CMC is so low it’s worth a shot
I run it in krark and sakashima
@@thewebscholarzan1650I used to but the double blue often prohibited me from winning with it
Love the card, I get hated on for using it every cEDH night
“Derevi beats you so hard and in a such demoralizing manner that you forget about winning the rest of the games” is a mood, really. And quite the origin story, usually for villains but glad it worked the other way around this time.
"Rollercoasters" as an answer is a very Charlie Day x Tim Robinson response from Cam lmfao
In my experience when 4 or 5 color decks get roffle stomped, its when a blood moon or back to basics hits the filed. So if we want to get out of 4,5 color midrange then wizards will have to print more cards that punish greedy mana bases
Smaller Con Sphinx? I got you! Faerie Mastermind
I think ledger shredder is closer but I dunno
@@stormtrooperjeepjk ledger shredder uses casts instead of draw like sphinx and mastermind
I love F.M.!!!
@@gabecastillo1634 true, but I thought Dylan was more looking for another rhystic body?
@@stormtrooperjeepjk mmm pretty sure he said he wanted a mini conc sphinx for mid range grind to overpower Rhystic i believe
To me the best ban for cEDH would be partner commanders. Can still play all the good cards, but everyone will have to be a bit more creative with building decks
Then the tier lists would just be like sisay>kenrith>najeela
@@finnj9539 until people find ways to beat them. I severely doubt the CEDH community would settle on playing 3 total decks.. for many of us, the joy of mtg is in deckbuilding.
But when you are playing to win, it’s hard to justify running a three color commander when you can have the same color identity with twice as many commanders, that are powerful and easier to cast.
@@finnj9539 another solution would be going the opposite way and printing waaay more partners. Or a change to partner rules so it’s not all upside.
@finnj9539 have you never heard of kinnan?
@@finnj9539 Don't forget about Breya. She could just slot into a lot of blue farm deck lists, then just change your alt wins to infinite mana with things like cloudstone + dockside.
9:15 this take is spot on, and a mindset I wish more players would adopt. I always tell pods that I play with what my combo lines are (as I'm a combo player at heart), how to best interact with it, and when to know when I'm going for it. However, I also love watching people "do the thing" with their deck to the point that if people start getting salty about them going for the win, I cheer the player going off and celebrate when they do it. The game's better when you're not just playing toward the green-based, midrange piles and can actually appreciate everyone's way to play.
I feel like we need a damping sphere for card draw
How would you format that?
@@noelsandford6657 Something like "if a player would draw a card, they instead must pay X and if they do draw a card, where X is the number of cards they've drawn this turn."
Band name: Play(Music) To Win
Hey just wanted to give y’all a shoutout of love! This channel is my favorite mtg content. I spend at least 20 hours a week playing magic, and when I can’t watching yalls videos scratches the same itch. Love yall.
I'd def love to see some "everyone has partner" vids.
I'd probably do Korvold Tymna or Malcom, or a pet deck idea of Trazyn Emry.
Getting trickbinded with only 1 kozilek on gitrog as a reshuffle feels so funny as a bad beat I agree so much with that take
Nobody asked me, but I’ve remembered moment when I felt like a genius so I’m gonna share it.
Played Najeela, went for unsuccessful attempt with Underworld Breach followed by main phase Ad Naus on next turn. With last 4 remaining lives, I had my Thoracle + Consultation in hand but not a single mana positive rock that would give me colored mana I needed to win. I was searching in my 30+ card hand and finally went for Gitaxian Probe payed with 2 lives which I then countered with An Offer You Can’t Refuse, netting me that single extra colored mana I needed. That felt good.
"Format is in a fair spot." Thank you. It's about time someone thought so.
I mean if you're playing cEDH and get salty when someone goes infinate, you're in the wrong "format". But if you say your casual deck doesn't go infinate but you have email dockside/temur/heliod ballista, there's a problem
"whenever an ability causes an opponent to draw a card, create a 2/2 token/treasure"
"You can only include this card in your deck if your commander is monocolored"
My issue with OBM is that it doesn't punish players for drawing cards: it punishes whoever has creatures out whenever anyone draws cards. We're at the point where the Gruul and Naya decks that do manage to top aren't playing any mana dorks, because OBM kills them for free just by someone else having an engine out. I understand wanting a way to punish card draw in the format, but because its ability is not restricted to towards the person actually drawing the cards, that's not really what OBM is. It just completely hates out the G strategies that were already struggling to keep up with Thoracle and Breach.
How much better does green really get with no Bowmasters?
@@chickenwyngs3646id say just slightly, but enough to be more relevant
i think Magda/Tivit makes for a really powerful and lean combo deck. being able to run time sieve as the win condition in magda reduces the need for dragons. being able to run grand abolisher, silence, orim’s chant, ranger captain in a turbo combo deck that doesn’t cast spells to win would be super uninteractable. you COULD even go ad naus since your mana value would be lowered. magda with access to black tutors, white protection, and blue interaction would be so fast. My other consideration is Kinnan/Godo. As soon as you play Kinnan you win the game. Basalt monolith is an immediate win with one red pip, Dockside immediately makes Godo mana, turn one kinnan and a rocks could easily give you a turn two godo.
On mtgo iirc, it's 20 minutes per person which is 80 minutes instead of 25 minutes per person in 1v1, but it's too short for certain combos even if they're entirely deterministic. TBH every mtg client should add a way to quickly "present the loop" to not hurt those kinds of decks.
You guys HAVE to play that pod on the show!!!
That sounds like it would be insane!
How would you feel about Heritage cEDH? Where you can only play cards that were printed into Standard and not anything from supplementary sets.
35 minutes into this video before I realised Cam was wearing a 'Gay to win' shirt.. I NEED one!
Is Faerie Mastermind not the "smaller consecrated sphinx" that was mentioned? I'm not sure what other design could be made at a small converted mana cost.
Another idea to fight against this midrange 4/5c meta is maybe adding more spells that tax having too many colors in a deck. Things like the new "Blue Moon" Merfolk and the Winter Orb 2.0 from MH3. Nowadays, there are almost no downsides to having no basics, using all dual lands... It would be nice having to think more about your mana base choices (and the color combination of your deck)
Because lands arent that necessary for mana generation. Theyre the starting point, so itd need to be 1 mana, all lands etb tapped, nonbasics dont untap lol
Yes, I’d love to see 2HG cEDH
Also if you start a band, you should name it after a Legend’s epithet. Like “The Dawnwakers” or “the Skyship Raiders”
Another TH-camr was saying Etali with Sakashima to just add copy tribal to the deck to abuse more etb’s with Etali
Gyruda the hell out of etali, hell yea
13:45 .... ooft. I watched this about a week after the Incident.
Crazy partner pairing idea, Magda with the new Omo, Queen of Vesuva card. Every creature, is a dwarf. Any infinite tap untap loop wins you the game because if you control madga and the loop can create at least 3 mana initially, you can cast omo, make it a dwarf, and boom. Plus access to some really stupid dragons like that green one that makes treasures. It's a bit win more, maybe janky, but at the very least, madga with counterspell protection sounds nuts.
That Emrakul joke had me fucking rolling dude.
I love watching no ban list commander
41:44 I think Magda /Diahada could be NUTS!
I appreciate the mindset of enjoying other players turns and the game as a whole. I've definitely noticed myself and the people I play with regularly becoming more this way over time.
Big brain moment i had recently in CEDH was my Bloodchief Ascension online opponent was down to 4 life Thoracle combo starting. Etb Thoracle, I cast force of despair, killing Thoracle (lose 2 life) Demonic Consult resolves and loses the last 2 life with the Thoracle ETB trigger on the stack.
In a precon league where we have limited budget to upgrade our decks each week based on placenent, and it basically becomes what you guys are discussing at 15:07 . There’s still lots of infinites and fast wins but all the fast mana and free interaction is soft banned due to prohibitive cost
43:16 Wow the Fred Fred Burger deep cut, what a great character
Where do you guys usually get your proxies? Just printing them or is there a good place online for ordering them?
Mpcfill is great for ordering online
I think if cedh showcased more "out of meta" decks (even though i pilot my food chain deck to my outs) id like to see "new win cons"
You should check out Tameshi, then.
@@TheSeckshun8 oh I have lol..... It looks bonkers and unaffected by much, silence, cast, grafdiggers.... Weathered runestone is pretty much it's only downside lol
@@stormtrooperjeepjk it's a crazy sturdy deck, especially in azorius. A lot of the wincon is uncounterable too
@@TheSeckshun8 I do run shorikai (non humility) but it's closer to a hp casual
It seems Japan always puts out off meta decks, it’s super interesting
Not that I think midrange hell is actually a bad thing, it creates longer more interesting games, but one way to balance that out would be to ban mana crypt for any decks with more than 1 or maybe 2 colors.
Or like you can either have rhystic or mana crypt.
Something where if you want fast mana you have to sacrifice big grind engines.
I think I'm just describing Canadian highlander
Sheoldred + bloodchief ascension has killed my rhystic hands before
Two-headed giant Cedh? Yes please
I feel the exact same way about winning/losing. It's why I love commander. I don't really care who wins, I just love watching magic happen.
15 episode series. Everything is legal. Each game the losers vote to ban a card. Then after you can see what your banlist would end up being.
Funnily enough this is a long running Yugioh series on the yugituber Farfa's channel. Every few weeks they host a tournament and the winning deck archetypes get banned, alongside usually an unfun hate piece or two
An "optional monthly rotating banlist" format would be really fun. It'd be completely different from the contemporary banlist/format. It would keep decklists moving around and shaking thing up.
Something about 8:50 that I like about high power is that the goal of everyone in the table is to win. That makes for more fun games for me instead of one player doing group hug or chaos or trying to just be petty. Everyone playing to win makes the game more fun even if I lose
Hey Cam, do you have your etali list ? Been watching your gameplays and need inspiration for optimizing etali!
www.moxfield.com/decks/AEA-mP3EEEyVEgWDeZ8epQ
Dylan, next time you’re in Chicago go get a vegan dog from Upton’s Breakroom
Their vegan Mac and cheese is also fire
Dylan’s a true musician. Doesn’t want to play in a band, then immediately wants to start a band when talking with a friend who also plays an instrument lol
Every time watch y’all’s videos it makes me think of the last episode of freaks and geeks where James Franco plays d&d with the nerds and It vibes 😊
so like "companion deck restrictions" on mono color cards will save us?
Winota + Yuriko would be unbelievably busted. You'd get all the benefits of Winota with all the protection and the ability to close it out with Yuriko triggers.
Ofc ya'll are watching bleach, I knew there was a reason I liked yall
Cam having a "casual" Prossh deck is absolutely hilarious, and so on brand 🤣 😆
New Marchesa gets around a ton of draw effects with her crime trigger.
Similarly the new Nadu does the same
For the Kinnan + Rakdos posit, Prosper feels fun!
All partners cEDH would be a sick episode. Would love to see Tyler run kinnan dihada!
Emrakuel physics pending, I'd rather face one Emrakuel sized squirrel. Due to the square-cubed law, the squirrel would collapse under its own weight. I wouldn't have to lift a finger.
I want fast mana that costs more the more colors in your commander’s color identity
I want more punisher cards with something that reads like we ever an artifact is tapped for mana it does 2 damage to it controller
Dylan: Dihada should-
Cam: 🗣DIHADA !!! OH MY GAHD!!🗣
Favorite moment of the video
Would LOVE to get those partners in a game on the channel!
The no-ban-list idea is stared down by the biggest elephant in the room: Flash Hulk.
the issue with bowmasters imo is that its so non specific. Sure the blue player might be drawing a lot of rhystic, but hey the green players got a couple dorks, lets wipe them out. I find it just punches down extremely hard on weaker fringe decks, and the most powerful decks which theoretically should be punished by it, aren't
Talking about getting out of the midrange hell. I think there would need to be a fundamental shift in card design that moves towards higher pip requirements. I like that self protection idea on a commander but what if it had more restrictive pips as well. Its not a fully fleshed out thought as well but boom more engagement for the algorithm 👍.
I'd love to see a play to win episode with a pod full of those dream partner combinations!
but will you be doing 200 singltone so no dupe in either deck!
I have a question, do you all think cEDH and regular commander should have separate ban lists? Segregated as separate formats
I always assumed you two were in a band together youve got that drummer / bass player vibe together
I have a strong feeling that "splashing colours" should be less incentivised. I would love to see support for "if you controll 5 or more islands" or some such, where going deep into the colour grant's great boons.
16:46 I don't think that there are any cards that are on the banlist right now that are only there to show players not to play other cards like them. I think that coalition victory is a perfect and shining example of a "this exact card has very negative play patterns and almost no positive play patterns available" in the sense that it even existing in the format means that you either have to hold up interaction for a sorcery, or lose the game any time a 5c player has their commander out and 8 mana up (which in casual games is most of the time).
The only "signpost" bans are the power 9, which are banned for optics reasons as to say "this isn't legacy, you don't need power to play". I believe that they wouldn't be banned (except maybe time vault.) if edh started as a full proxy format.
18:39 and to my knowledge, wizards hasn't ever had experience in managing a format's level of fun. They have only ever managed a format's tournament experience.
19:00 I think that it's fine to just ban the cards that are uniquely awful to play against. Recurring Nightmare is a nightmare to play against, primetime gets out of hand, sway of the stars just is not fun. Right now I'd say that every card on the banlist (other than power) is there for exactly it's text box (and not the cards that do things like it) and how that interacts with the game, interacts with the deck building process, and how it actually plays out at a table. There is definitely an element of ubiquity that the RC prioritizes as to only affect cards that are seeing enough play to actually warrant increasing the ban list.
I have a suggestion to the last parring of the partner group. In the light of Purphoros actually getting some traction how about him and some more aggro to push a aggro deck, purphoros ragavan dihada or maybe krenko.
Hullbreacher needs to be reprinted as two white cards. One that makes the treasures but does not prevent draw, and one that prevents the draw. Maybe at 2 mana and still with flash. Both would still be staples. Hullbreacher just too busted.
There are a few similar versions. Spirit of the labyrinth prevents anyone from drawing more than 1 a turn. Alms collector replaces instances of more than 1 draw with just 1 draw (not good into rhystic tho)
Don’t abolish the reserve list. Just continue promoting PROXIES. I own a lot of reserve list but I also own alot of proxies.
Keep the reserve list
But mainstream proxies
And most tournaments I’ve played in the last year all allowed proxies except one (:
Format is in a good place.
The RL issue will have to be addressed at some point by wotc if they want to be more involved in the format. There simply aren't enough tournament legal (condition) Reserved List cards for everyone to own an LED
When I think about bans in edh, the thing that seems to make the most sense is some bans based on price, just to bring the price of an official cedh deck down to more like $2k-3k. But then yea like you mentioned it's a big hit to the bigger collector.
I think a silence that comes with 'opponents can't draw cards outside their draw steps this turn' would be good for speeding up the format
Hullbreacher is a great example of the problem with being tied to casual EDH's banlist
The band name is still Play To Win, because you're playing songs.
One month a year, it's Gay To Win, when you turn into a Village People cover band.
Also have you guys considered playing Pauper cEDH?
No fast mana no free spells is truly a blast. It’s like “Magic as Richard Garfield intended” but you can still do truly degenerate stuff. I think a better way than power levels is the “Fast Mana/Free Spells/Tutor” axes.
Welp, their first opinion about no bans didn’t age well 😅
My favorite comfort foods are super non vegan 😂... medium rare ribeye, chicken cordon blu which has real provolone n thick cut ham so it's 3 ways non-vegan, and meat lovers pizza with extra meat n cheese n extra gluten 😋 bcuz no 1 really knows what gluten is but everyone knows it's good 💯
I'd love to see some Two-Headed Giant. I really don't know how it works at all lol.
Tiny Consecrated Sphinx = Faeire Mastermind. Same vibes in a smaller package.
Band name Play to Listen. Or Play to vibe.
I can't recall if you've done it yet, but have you guys considered "true" Competitive Elder Dragon Highlander by using only Elder Dragons as your commander?
Ive said this before but you guys have such chemistry i thought you guys were like hughschool buddies
Idea for an artifact to combat 4 and 5 color decks. 3 drop artifact with "Each player's spells cost 1 more for each color amongst nonland permanents that player controls."
4:48 - I was really hoping for a powercrept Spirit of the Labyrinth from MH3 with a bigger butt and flash.
Some cards are clearly design mistakes or simply do not work in multiplayer.
An argument against no banlist: in theory it gives you more options, but those design mistakes are so powerful that they warp the format around them. You either have to play them or play counters to them, which gives a format that is actually LESS diverse.
Disclaimer: this is how it works in Pokemon Singles 6v6 and I don't know how aplicable it is to mtg
I don’t know if I agree. If Wizards involvement makes EDH unfun, then that implies that all other formats wizards are involved with are unfun. Which I don’t think is true, because I enjoy other formats. I feel like wizards supporting EDH would improve the format. More support, more sanctioned tournaments, bigger prize pools, etc. if it works with other formats, I don’t see why it won’t work with EDH. However, everything is theoretical until it happens so until then, both points of view are equally viable
I’m not sure if this is a controversial opinion or not, but I think the one ring should be banned or restricted in every format its legal in, especially commander, I’ve seen a player with the one ring draw tons of card and take over the game really quickly because of the one ring
Every card is basically restricted in Commander, though.
Watching you guys play no-backlist commander would be sick!
Cam’s joke got stuck in a leyline binding
38:15 I counter with najeela derevi(wincon in command zone)
43:41 I suggest the name, Primal Naus
Give me Black Lotus for Korvold and Iso+Walk for monoblue, ohmygodyes. Griseldaddy may not replace Razzy in decks but will 100% become a very competitive list overnight. No naus, no PitA, just Griselbrand in the CZ. That deck would be scary.
What part of bleach are y’all on?
Fun Fact: Wizards actually produced the first Pokemon cards
Look to Standard to see how Wizards would run EDH. They power creep higher and higher, then don't respond with bans until they've gotten their money. It's not that they'd ban what we like (in all likelihood), but instead that that would make those pieces obsolete, then ban the new toys when it's time for a new set.
RIP Santoro's - real ones remember.
You're funny Cam, the leyline binding joke worked, Dylan was just too slow to get it.