TOP 10 HARD REMOVAL SPELLS IN cEDH
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- Dylan and Cam rank the top 10 hard removal spells in cEDH
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Can you guys make a podcast about cards that are just barely unplayable in cEDH that you wish was playable?
I’m late but that’s a great idea
Kalamax my baby 😢 RIP fling kills
This definitely should be a podcast, feels like I can listen to them all the time.
Pyroblast has clause "...if it is blue." This means you can actually cast it to counter a non-blue spell or target a non-blue permanent (so add to storm count) but the spell will do nothing when it resolves. Red Elemental Blast requires the spell or permanent to be blue to be able to legally cast it/target.
That also means it is venerable to redirect effects like Deflecting Swat.
can also kill a phantasmal image
@@JeagerfromVore Yup. If you cast Red Elemental Blast targeting Rhystic Study in the battlefield and there are no other blue permanents they can't redirect it since it's the only valid target for the shosen mode which can be relevant.
@@aspasia3 That's true!
@@azerim2039 Theres also the added, play it to stop a naus just to let the rhystic player try to draw some interaction play
you say pyroblast feels bad as a dead card in hand if you sit down at a table with no blue, i say sitting down at a table with no blue is already a win.
In the Tymna/Jeska deck, Path to Exile is mainly run over Swords as a way to shuffle your deck (by targeting one of your own creatures) in case Bolas' Citadel gets stuck with a land on top. Citadel is also why the deck plays Pyroblast instead of REB (as you can cast Pyroblast on anything even if it's not blue).
The existence of Path and Trophy are why I will never cut all my basics.
Thanks again, great episode! I am wondering though: How mad is Tyler (and rightfully so) that you are saying "Pognify" instead of "Pongify"?
Extremely
-tyler
It makes the creature more poggier 😂
It's literally made me wonder whether I'm reading it wrong.
I love Cam pronouncing "pongify" differently every time 😂😂😂
Only other card I would put on this list is cut down. Gets rid of a lot of stax creatures for one mana at instant speed
Winona has enough creatures cut down misses on that It is not worth a spot in anything not mono black. It’s just a worse dismember in most cases outside of ad naus winning turns
@@xxthevampirateThe only notable stax creature Cut Down misses is Phyrexian Censor.
lol you playing too much arena
I feel like a tier list might help with these segments
100%
It's really great watching/listening to you guys with a totally unique perspective on cards that I've only ever seen in casual commander play. This has become my go-to podcast for cEDH!
What about gilded drake? Personally think it's one of the best removal spells in blue
it is not removal. it stays on the battlefield.... der doi
How can this be a pod cast when there's only two players smh
because you can listen to it on your iPod my dude
I wish people would talk about force of despair more. I think it's really underplayed. It's a pet card for me true. And if you draw it the turn after someone pops off that feels bad but it can be a board wipe if someone pops off or even just plays one creature that is super menacing and you take care of it for free.
Could yall imagine if Skyclave Apparition had Flash? Like, that would put it straight over the top for me. Snagging that U-Breach or any other 4cmc or less combo piece at instant speed with a more permanent removal ability would be SO freaking bonkers. If commander legends released a whole cycle of 3cmc Flash creatures with some type of upside for you/downside for all opponents, Skyclave Apparition would've been an insane white representative just if it had Flash. It wouldve been even crazier as a Grasp of Fate on a stick, which is arguably more likely because Opp Agent AND Hullbreacher both shut down entire game mechanics in one-sided ways. I'm just saying, that would be a fun cycle to design and Skyclave Apparition would be a peak tier cedh staple imo.
Great vid fellas. Pechko here on my alt account. I think it is important to remember that Path can pressure a player who recently tutored something to the top of their deck. If they want the land? The lose the tutored card. If they want the tutor- it becomes a Exile removal spell without an upside for your opponent!
You can't change the modes of a spell once it's placed on the stack. Pyroblast differs from REB in that it can target a nonblue spell/permanent, but only counters/destroys that target *IF* it is blue.
I think these videos would be so great if you had a visual tier ranking Infographic. That way, you could give a letter ranking to each spell, and then sort each letter grade by best to worse. Could make it easier for audience to follow along.
That was a great intro, adequate promotion.
I rate that intro a 17 out of 6, better than Chain of Vapor.
I'd highly reccomend having some visual representation of the tier list in the video which updates as you debate :). Otherwise, awesome vid!
Interesting take on Pongify, Rapid and Forbidden Orchard.
Giving an opponent a creature is sometimes what you >want
Just found this channel, really digging it so far
Also my other favorite part of Boseiju, it plays through rule of law effects.
Definitely a HUGE upside
Surprised how high dismember is as I never see it played, but your reasoning seemed pretty sound. Would love to see a video on which decks you think are the hardest and easiest to pilot well in CEDH. Personally I think tayam looks incredibly difficult to pilot well
hey, I don't comment much ( on any vidoes ) and I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your videos. They genuinely make my day better. In a world of negativity you may not hear this enough but thank you for your hard work and creatively
IMO regarding of Chaos Warp and Wild Magic Surge comparison. I have heard a lot of time these 2 being compared, but I think they are completely different cards, tho the effects seem so similar. The pro of WMS is that it’s 1 mana less than Chaos Warp. And that’s it. WMS destroys a permanent, so it doesnt dodge indestructible and also it puts the card in graveyard. And worst of all it GUARANTEES the flip to something else after destroying the permanent. Chaos warp on the other hand gets rid of absolutely anything by shuffling it in, and yes, it has that statistically microscopic chance to flip back into what you just shuffled, but besides that it flips the top card of the library, just that. And if it is not a permanent it keeps that card on top and doesnt give your opponent the return! Even worse, it gives everyone info about the next draw of that player which is now kept on top! Chaos warp is very underrated card I think
Wow. I would love to hear you guys do this list again. I would really enjoy hearing cam justify lightning bolt being better than path in the current meta
You should have broken the category into artifact/enchantment removal, and then a different category for creatures, and maybe a separate category for any permanent removal.
I think it’s fine not breaking it apart like that because often slots are so tight that you need to be considering what singular spells is most valuable to that dekc and sometimes that’l include thinking “well how badly do I need to remove artifacts, what does my curve allow” etc. it’s not always the case that you’ll have near slots on your deck for each category.
In mono R i value Rending Volley more than bolt. It's more specific but still hits a lot of stuff and uncounterable is big.
you guys got some good stuff lately, trying to better with my mana 2 :p
One of things with pongify as well is that I think you have to compare it to Gilded Drake. Both give your opponent an attacking option but the value you can get from stealing a card is worth way more than 1 extra mana and flying.
Wild Magic surge is a great option for red stuff especially in mono red or lower color combinations, it can get rid of one annoying stax piece that is stopping you the most.
I had a game where I went to 3 on an ad-nausium, started breaching, went for a thassas, fought through a counter war on an endurance then got lightning bolted! 😂 lot of text here but I got to give my opponent props for the well timed bolt.
I think you missed some like cut down, solitude, maybe even anguished unmaking but overall great
You talked about resculpt but not reality shift which I think is better only Hits creatures but it can counter tutors vamp, enlighten, or worldly, imp seal
Really interesting how the absence of EDH popular Reality Shift (2 Mana, hits only creatures, manifests top) in a conversation with room for Pongify, Hybridization, Resculpt, through Wild Fire Magic to Chaos Warp and Beast Within kinda tells a bit about cEDH itself. Nice!
With how prominent "The One Ring" has become in cEDH, I think Resculpt has been my favorite inclusion to some of my decks.
Lethal Scheme can also be a free black removal spell that hits all creatures (and also hits planeswalkers) and is card draw. Even for 1 or 2 mana, it can be pretty fantastic.
Feed the swarm is a sorcery which I think is super relevant to this conversation. It’s a lot worse because it’s not an instant.
Also, I don’t think I agree with you guys about path to exile. I’ve seen a lot of gameplay recently, where they can’t find a basic land. So many good 3-5 colour decks in the format right now that don’t run basics. Path right now is usually just 1 mana exile target creature with no downside. Sure there is an argument that is a meta call, but I think it should be higher than you guys put it
I like how with skyclave you debated putting it under bolt and rolic. It fought its way up
Somewhat revenant thing about boseju and abrupt decay: They cannot be deflecting swatted back towards your own permanent.
Also iirc, skyclave works lke O.Ring as well, that if you blink it with the exile trigger on the stack, since the card leaves play, the 2nd line of text triggers but does nothing, and when it comes back it exiles something else under it, and the original target is just exiled permanently.... correct me if im wrong tho XD
I mean, you are not wrong, but also not right. Skyclave always exiles permanently, but they will not get a token if you do what you wrote.
@@fireluuigixp yes that too, didnt elaborate completely, but since the first paragraph doesnt resolve first because you blinked it, the 2nd one is essentially an empty effect
My Legacy player brain hearing shade being thrown at Hydroblast and yelling "But it answers Blood Moon and Minsc and Boo!"...
well, we are gonna need 8-10 removals for the new orc Bowmaster =P
REB and Pyroblast pitch to furry which makes it a lot better sometimes
Needed generous gift in that 2-3 group in the beginning
I play path over swords in my polyfodder decks. Turning a rograkh or a yoshimaru into ramp/fixing can actually be really good
Could we get a podcast about your normal ratios of cards in cedh decks (how many single target removal, how many wraths, how many card advantage, e.t.c) and how that compares to casual ratios?
Just throwing my two cents out there. Remember Generous Gift gets rid of ANY non land permanent! Which I think makes it relevant sometimes.
Lightning bolt is a win con in krark/sakashima
if you are even considering hidro/blue elemental blast, you should consider Despark and Anguised Unmaking even over the Beast/Gift/Chaoswarp, also Fracture and Drown in the Loch has seen a good place into some decks (mostly mill decks)
I personally love cards that have flexibility, even at the cost of 1 more mana ( 2 cmc slot). I get it a lot of decks are very snobby towards a 2 cmc spell but I like Abrade and Return to Nature a lot.
So sad to see Fatal Push not here
The only one I disagree being quite so high is skyclavr, I think you forgot that it's sorcery speed while all the rest are instant, which makes a world of difference. I would put it either 9 or 10. Otherwise looks perfect
You can cast Pyro/Hydroblast spells when you have priority, regardless of a valid target or not if you need to add a spell to the stack.
The Elemental Blast spells can't be cast unless they have a valid target. And I think I know what Cam was thinking about...
You could cast something in response to a Pyroblast that takes control of target spell and lets you choose new targets for the spell.
E.G. If you took control of a REB, you could only redirect it to legal blue targets... and if the only blue target is yours, you can't stop it from targeting you with that redirect spell.
But if you took control of a Pyroblast, you could redirect it to ANY permanent - and it fizzles if that permanent was not blue.
Hope the example helps!
The biggest problem with Wild Magic Surge is its ability to remove enchantment RoL effects since it often just turns them into other RoL effects.
In mono red is the extra mana on Chaos Warp really that much worse than guaranteeing to give your opponent a permanent with Wild Magic Surge?
I died. Cam's mic when it turns on
You cannot change the modes on either. The difference is Pyroblast can target non-blue things. Where red blast cannot
I have beginning to love cathartic pyre alot lately, what do you guys think about it?
Nice list. I think the only other card that warrants some consideration for this list might be Solitude
hey guys, what about suspend and slip out the back? could one of you maybe tell where you would put those on the list? edit: also sapphire charm, never seen anyone using it but I like it.. and where did the numbers, like on boseiju and dismember come from?
Play to Win, the only place where you can hear the phrase, "I think it's better than I think it is." 😅❤
Would that cause a loop and result in a draw? 😂😂
Some sleepers: Rending Volley (bye Winota!), End the Festivities, Cut Down, Natural State, & Fracture.
Agree, although End the Festivities sounds closer to the excluded "wraths" than spot removal, I think others that may make the list is "March of the otherworldly light" and "Soul partition"
Was gonna suggest Rending Volley as well, even though it’s limited to white/blue creatures, though the uncounterable clause is nice
You can also blink skyclave in Emiel.
I'm on chaos warp over wild magic in mono red to deal with enchantments. Getting blind obedience off the board doesn't help if another stax enchant comes out to stop my combo
Suspend is used as a removal application far more often than bounce. Still worth talking about it this category.
For the rogsi deck isn't 4 mana a lot for ad Nas?
I would personally put abrade higher on this list, just because it does hit artifacts which helps out with a ton of those stax pieces you need to get rid of to win.
I can think of one competitive deck that I could see running blue blast/hydro, although this is DEFINITELY QUITE far off meta, and that deck is Baral, Chief of Compliance. Simply because he does care so much about countering, and these are one-mana counterspells that hit some pretty major things (dockside, breach, swat, kraum, kiki, winota, to name a few).
Also curious, where would you guys rate anguished unmaking? I know there are plenty of cards that are better, but I personally run anguished unmaking because of its instant-speed exiling removal. This was in my Tivit deck, which was pretty heavy on the control side of things so I don’t know where I’d put it outside of that, but I’m still curious what you guys think.
Captain's Log: Video #9,874,501
My notebook has become so full of top #10 lists, and my eyes hurt from reading every single card I own. I fear I may be losing my sight and sanity! Hopefully I can play MAGIC with braille in the sanitarium.
These are great videos, and the information are great to get, but I wonder if you couldn't do something more robust than a simple list.
I wonder if maybe a four quadrant chart would be a better option?
Just a thought. Great video anyway guys!
0:50 Did you ever do that Wraths podcast? I can't find it.
I don't play cedh so this is mere conjecture but would it be relevant that skyclave apparition is a creature and therefore can't normally be played at instant speed?
1.) Swords to Plowshares
2.) Assassin's Trophy
3.) Pongify /Rapid Hybridization
4.) Force of Vigor
5.) Reality Shift
6.) Nature's Claim
7.) Abrupt Decay
8.) Path to Exile
9.) Beast Within
10.) Chaos Warp
11.) Lightning Bolt
I feel like you guys missed some highly played creatures that are removal spells like solitude or cathar commando. Even Fury might be good enough to be on the list. Would love to hear yalls thoughts on them too! Otherwise, great video guys!
What about reality shift? It is one more mana, and leaves them with a 2/2, BUT, if looped, it mills them out and kills them like bolt does. It's the win con in my tasigur list, works great in sultai Timetwister loops
I still like abrade, it's good enough for most stax creatures and hits artifacts, not as many artifact combos running around right now but still enough.
Cam adding a D every time he says pongdify 😂 There isnt a d in the name!
Great show guys, love it.
Probably a modern player's bias, but I really like fury in non-Ad Naus lists, it can be single target or remove multiple stax pieces and it can be free a lot
Dismember is fucking great, one of my favourite removals ever, and its really good in cedh even if it seems a little sus lol
Curious about Gilded Drake. Does it not count as hard removal?
no... it does not
I feel like Soul Partition belongs somewhere on the top 10 list for sure
you play too much arena is what I think
What you do is run both pongify and lightning bolt so you can pongify something then bolt the beast
Genius
I really like Vanishing Verse, hits a ton of combo pieces and stax pieces. Plus it's an exile effect.
we're not!! talking about wraths!!
What you think about witness protection?
Resculpt gets a couple points for hitting “The One Ring”
Have you guys considered "Excise the Imperfect" it's a new 3 mana Exile any non-land, that leaves behind an incubate token. Seems really versatile.
I feel like 3 Mana for a single target removal is way to much in cedh
@@ernsthaft3331 Agreed, though I think that it is a strict upgrade to generous gift, which was addressed in the list.
@@TheKeysaki fair
What about multi-format all star ichor slick?
Considering how often Rhystic study will just end up winning a player the game, I think Natures claim type effects are underrated here. People also forget how impactful sniping a sol ring or a crypt can be. Slow down the naus, slow down the winota, snipe the breach... theres a lot of utility in enchantifact removal.
Like Generous Gift that they glossed over
Not gonna lie, bugged the hell out of me i've never heard anyone say POG nify i've only ever heard PONG ify and it's all i could think about everytime both of you guys said it lol
It it’s poggers
Was driving me insane. PONG-IFY
I think id like to removal broken down by color. like 10 best black, 10 best white etc etc
Somehow wild magic surge was the card that was mentioned like 5 times but never was on the screen (and it's like the only one I didn't know)
Just a little thing, otherwise great job)
I understand it's because you didn't want to 'spoil' it, but it still was frustrating to stop the video and open Google
Even though Winota doesn't seem as prominent as it once was, I can't top ten a removal spell that doesn't deal with her, so Abrupt Decay and Bolt I don't see making it for me. (I consider Reb and Pyro more as counters than removal).
So add Path and... I dunno, maybe keep Abrupt, lol.
I might of missed it, but what about March of otherworldly lights
wait. why did they talk about beast within and generous gift but they didn't angushed unmaking??
When do we get your thoughts on suspend? :D
Unpopular opinion.......blue blast goes in one deck, cormela uses it to hit breaches and swats, but can also be used at instant speed to pop cormela for her death trigger
Vanishing Verse topic. Rule 105, Colourless isn't a colour and therefore, not mono colour
Thoughts on solitude?
What about soul partition. Or did i miss it somehow?
We talked about it in our Bounce Spell episode