The _truly_ weird thing is that everyone ends up in long term relationships with people who were in their year at school. How many people do you know like that?
It’s because they are wizards. Wizards work different jobs, live different lives and I think Hogwarts is the only wizarding school the UK. Hogwarts is a perfect place for them to find life-long friends, because it’s a boarding school and not just any boarding school. in your usual public school you would come to a very plain building in the morning, listen during lessons, joke around a little during lunch and leave, whereas in hogwarts they live together, attend MAGIC lessons, have a litteral huge and mysterious castle as well as the outside to hang out, a choir, quiddich games, big events and old traditions. And back then there wasn’t such a big hook up culture. Even my parents and all their friends who are married now met in university.
Makes you think. Do people get divorced? Is it unthinkable for Ron and Hermione to split up , because after the dust settles, and they try to live together, they have to realize they are not a good fit.
What do you expect-them to argue about their career paths and how they never do anything fun together anymore? They were in a war, bro. Besides, going through traumatic experiences with someone else would likely make you more dedicated to them than to some random boyfriend/girlfriend you met at your high school.
They were up until they were married. The whole mess at Shell Cottage completely ruins Fleur's character. She goes from being this very fiery, opinionated person to just this gal in an apron who meekly obeys Bill's every command. Honestly, the part where she's clearing the table and Bill tells her not to enter the kitchen and so she silently backs away and closes the door feels borderline sinister to me, like how did he crush your spirit girl?
Did they really though? One minute Fleur goes to work at Gringotts at the end of GOF, the next they're engaged in Half Blood Prince and married in Deathly Hallows.
People say female authors portray emotions in more subtle and nuanced ways. Well, Rowling is about as subtle and nuanced as a sledgehammer to the face.
Their parenting skills may suck but Vernon and petunia are actually one of the best couples in the series. Vernon has to deal with all the magical BS From Petunia's side of the family, yet his loyalty to her never wavers.
The wizards consistently treat the Dursleys in an arrogant and harmful manner, from taking for granted that they will look after Harry, to lecturing Vernon & Petunia on their treatment of Harry. This is the same high-handedness as is shown to the Goblins & House-Elves; if Umbridge is an extreme example of this, Aunt Marge mirrors her attitude. Molly Weasley shows hints of the same wizardous contempt for non-Wizards. Molly, and Marge, are both pet-forms of the name Margaret; these choices of name seems unlikely to be accidental.
@@JamesMC04 I mean, the Dursleys WERE abusive to Harry. I don't know if Dumbledore would have forced them to take Harry in if they didn't want to raise him, but from their behavior in Book 2, they seem to feel as if they have options. And even if they were forced, baby Harry didn't hold them at wandpoint and coerce them, so abusing him is still messed up.
slightly? Quid & the Weasleys are the only things they have in common, and _obviously_ Harry couldn't get on with Ron, oh no, no, no, and the only way to ensure a canonical post-series bond between the three main characters so they wouldn't conceivably grow apart were to have them marry into the W family. Sure, Harry & Ginny has _nothing_ to do with Harry's series-long longing to be part of a loving family. They're super compatible.
Does anyone ever think about how Cho was so severely derailed in OOTP to the point of it being hilariously transparent that the author REALLY don't want actual idea of Harry ending up with anyone except Ginny
I think it was less that she wanted him to with Ginny and instead really didn't want him to be in a relationship because she doesn't know how to write one beyond the surface. Cause there's absolutely no hinting that he feel anything towards Ginny until half blood, and when they get together it's so late that JK doesn't even need to write the relationship anymore. The movie actually had to correct the course by adding a lot more romantic scenes between them. To the point where I think it forgets that Ginny has a boyfriend for a good chunk of that story.
Cho wasn't "derailed", unless you think that Harry and Ginny should have been love at first sight and not date anyone else. Which I would have loved, but let's face, not exactly realistic, is it?
@@stefan4159 Derailed, as in, Cho suddenly gained lots of negative moments that seems to try to tell you "hey Cho isn't actually perfect and maybe Harry wasn't meant to be with her" but because the previous book tries to play around Harry/Cho and makes it look like the only reason why they haven't dated is just that Cho is already with Cedric, it just looks like Cho was just suddenly made bad just for the sake of Harry not ending up with anyone except Ginny, who instead gets some one-upping moment from Cho (like how Cho's name idea for the group is rejected while Ginny is accepted, and Harry tells Cho off that Ginny is the example that DA member with Ministry family can keep their mouth shut about DA)
The worse thing about Lily and James is how JK tried to parallel their story to Voldemort's parents. Voldemort is supposed to be born without love, his parents didn't love eachother, his mother died and his father didn't love him. That's the difference in their upbringing and why Voldemort is a reflection of a Harry without love but James and Lily's relationship is so poorly written that you don't understand why that point was even made in the first place. Also, I personally always been weirded out by Tonks and Lupin's relationship, first of all because of the age difference, she's barely in her twenties, and that after they got together Tonks seemed so dulled. Tonks was this character that was so colourful and full of life, I understand that it could be because of the war but she had been an Auror for years at that point, it made me feel like she had lost her spark, truly depressing.
I think Sheep in Box pointed out something about how Tonks’ taming reflected Rowling’s experience with motherhood. It was along the lines of how Rowling found great joy and fulfillment in being a mother and so projected that onto her characters. And because of her current rocky (for lack of better words) relationship with the queer community, some parts of the queer community retroactively view Tonks as the personification of the belief that “queerness is just a phase.”
A funny headcannon I saw is that after Hogwarts Neville and Harry have a sort of competition of “praising” Snape. Yknow get drunk and be like “Oh Snape, such a good man!” In a sarcastic way. They go above and beyond to one up each other. Outside, people are kinda confused, but the people in their friend group either roll their eyes or are laughing their butts off. Then, Harry named his son after Snape and sends a letter to Neville like “Your move.”
I can’t believe you didn’t mention Fred and Angelina crushing on each other and going to the Yule Ball together and then when he gets killed in the war, her and George get together 😭 that was crazy work. I know they weren’t a major romance but I’ve always been baffled by this one
@@Jdudec367 It's hard to explain but it's that idea that some people see twins are extensions of the same person. In reality, they are two different people. So it just came across as Rowling trading one for another.
To be fair, when Ron left, he kind of just walked out of the tent and got kidnapped. It's not like he purposefully stayed away for weeks. He literally couldn't find them. And the first thing he does after coming back is save Harry's life. And the only reason he left was because of the locket. So I am able to believe that Hermione can forgive him for leaving.
Not to mention that just because she doesn’t usually forgive doesn’t mean she’s incapable of forgiving, especially considering Ron’s one of her best friends. She’s capable of growth or change, people aren’t just flat.
Personally I didn’t like the way the romances in general were written in the books … Everyone says how Harry and Ginny are “so good” compared to the movies but book Harry/Ginny is pretty bad to me.. like Harry barely acknowledges Ginny in 5 books and then in book 6 he suddenly has this deep passion, jealousy and love for her out of nowhere… and suddenly she becomes the most important person to Harry, he is only thinking about her “Ginny is fighting/ is in danger ooh no” what about the other Weasley’s or other friends?? Why is he only worrying about her and doesn’t mention the others? Not to mention that the moment Ginny became Harry’s love interest she is suddenly this cool popular girl that every guy thinks is pretty… like Hermione never got that treatment only in the yule ball where she spent hours getting ready and was so different from her usual self she was almost unrecognisable
> Harry barely acknowledges Ginny in 5 books and then in book 6 he suddenly has this deep passion, jealousy and love for her out of nowhere… and suddenly she becomes the most important person to Harry Fake news. It was a gradual process, and you see a lot of development in book 5 especially. They become good friends, and Harry notices her a lot more because she finally shows her real personality to the fullest extent to him. > like Hermione never got that treatment only in the yule ball Wrong. Hermione had cross-house friendships, was invited to the Slug Club, and was pretty enough to be asked out by Cormac McLaggen. And by the way what's the point of comparing Ginny to Hermione seeing that they were never in competition for Harry's love?
@@stefan4159 Well to me Harry’s romantic interest towards her was a bit too sudden… yes she was more involved in the plot of book 5 but same as a lot of other students in dumbledores army.. she was just one of the gang (never even had an individual scene with Harry after chamber of secrets) and Harry’s love interest was still Cho Chang at that point.. I’m not saying I don’t like the concept of them together, the one scene I actually did like of them was the conversation they had at the end of book 6. I just don’t like the way it was executed/written in the books… same with any of the romantic relationships in the harry potter books.. (just my opinion) On the second one what I’m trying to say is that because Ginny becomes Harry’s love interest, attention is given to her looks in book 6 (slytherin’s mention her at the train for example) and we are told that she is popular with a lot of GUYS.. And I am comparing that with Hermione who is not meant to be Harry’s love interest, you say she is also popular but not in the same way that Cho Chang or Ginny in book 6 was She was never described to be very pretty (her teeth and hair are described as negative), attention is given to her looks only after a lot of preparation/ when she had a makeover for the ball, she did have 3 guys show interest in her but we are never told she is popular among many guys.. if she was a love interest that would not be the case I feel like…
@@stefan4159 No, Ginny's character was just badly handled. Rowling was lazy, she wrote only ONE major female character for most of the series. She waited too long to bring Ginny back into the plot and introduce Luna and Tonks. If she'd maintained Ginny as a major character after Book 2 and introduced Luna in Book 3 and maybe Tonks in Book 4, it would be a different thing. A better thing.
They are better in the books, but that's basically saying nothing given how awful their romance in the movie was. Not really hard to be better than that.
Yep exactly. I'm always so confused when people say the book handled the romance better because I honestly thought Harry's feelings in book six were forced and sudden. And yeah, the movies were even worse. As a kid I didn't really mind because I wasn't even focusing on the romance but reading it as an adult just showed how much of the romance it lacked. Especially compared to Peeta and Katniss in Hunger games and the relationships in the Shadowhunters series.
Some people complained about Katniss and Peeta but it actually made sense. The two were so traumatized from the Games and the War that they could only understand each other and each other's viewpoints.
I never liked Katniss and Peeta personally, but then I'm against pretty much any relationship that seems to be distracting from the main plot. I can agree that their writing made a lot more sense, though.
One of the most frustrating parts of the books in my opinion was that JK just couldn't pick a lane when it came to the mauraders and Lily. Either commit to making them bad people that Harry has to reconcile and move past, or actually show how they changed for the better. Either way it would have been really interesting. But instead it comes across as JK starting off writing her typical fantasy parents with their fairy tale romance and tragic deaths. But half way through decided that Snape was her favorite character and since Snape hated James and the audience didn't, she just shoehorned in that one memory of the mauraders being just - the worst. Because (unless I'm remembering wrong) James only get's four "on screen" moments. 1. Him protecting Lily and Harry from Voldemort 2. Him coming out of Voldemort's wand in the graveyard to buy Harry time to escape 3. Him appearing from the reserection stone to comfort Harry as he's about to die 4. Him bullying/sexually harrassing/assaulting Snape. One of these instances is wildly different from the others. Combined with the fact that Snape is the only one who ever has anything bad to say about James and this whole plot thread of James being kind of a bastard feels really weird and disjointed.
To be fair, in the third book, we learn that Sirius tried to get Snape mauled to death by a werewolf as a joke, so that scene wasn't exactly out of character for the Marauders. And plenty of people in the real world are nice to those they consider friends and nasty to those they consider enemies. But I absolutely think Snape's redemption/sympathetic portrayal could have been done better.
@@Nemo12417 It was done better in the movies, 'cause in the books he really did feel irredeemable, in my opinion. They removed a lot of his worst moments and traits when adapting the movies.
I feel like the change is 100% owed to Alan Rickman being like “why is this character a cartoon villain? This sucks.” And then doing his dang thing and giving Snape a Colonel Brandon spin. Didn’t JK admit he played a large part in the character arc building? RIP - total legend and heart throb for unrequited love story folks.
my problem with hinny is that they’re basically james and lily 2.0. harry looks like his dad and ended up getting with a redhead. imo it’s weird. the dynamic is weird.
All redheads do not look the same. Or are we now supposed to assert that Harry/Luna would be creepy because Luna looks like Aunt Petunia just because both are blonde?
@bendyglove I agree that Harry/Ginny sucked but in all fairness, Lily is built up as this perfect Mary Sue whom everyone loved, and she doesn't do much to earn that reputation. Hermione is a smart Muggle born like Lily but she earns her praise. Ginny is a half assed character yes, but even she does more than background Lily. Both are pretty and popular but Ginny was also a Quidditch player while Lily hated the sport. Hermione and Ginny both share traits of Lily but can personify traits better than Lily did. Meanwhile James is NOT Harry. It's very clear that Harry is a better man than James.
The only one that he mentioned that was indeed rushed _on page_ was Remus/Tonks. James/Lily was merely a background plot, Snape's feelings for Lily make sense, Ron/Hermione was hinted at from book 3 (at the latest) onwards, and Harry/Ginny was hinted at since book 2, and very strongly hinted at in book 5.
Of course, because they weren't romances, they're just pairings and not important to the story. It's just a literary device and people are taking it too seriously, probably because they read the books later in life and were expecting something different.
In all honesty, I never really paid much attention to the romance to begin with honestly. But Harry Potter’s romantic subplots looked really bad from what you said, and I guess that shows why you really need to plan out a healthy romantic subplot between two characters. This video actually help give me insights on some of the romantic subplots in my writing and change it up, and now it’s looking a lot better. So thank you, Smarty
" I guess that shows why you really need to plan out a healthy romantic subplot between two characters. " I don't think that a story always needs "healthy" relationships to make it a good story. It depends on which outcome you want to have with it. You also can play with toxic relationships in your stories. It gives another layer to your characters. For example: A guy who is always lovely and cheerful to his friends and strangers and is very popular, but a dick to his girlfriend/boyfriend or his family. It gives you material to work with your character. Maybe he goes see a therapist, because he has some serious mental issues, or his dickhead moves are revealed to his friends, so that they abandon him and he becomes a villain. He may overcomes his flaws and gets a better person. It also has an effect on the other characters. Maybe his girlfriend/boyfriend does something to him or whatever. But yeah, the romance in the books wasn't good most of the time. They were side plots for character development but rather subtle. Harry got some experience, which is normal at this age, but it wasn't the main goal to achive a relationship. The main plot was fantasy/adventure based.
I will always recommend the original Percy Jackson series for a good example of romance in a children’s series. Hell, good romance in fiction in general.
@@mittag983Why? I never was that invested in it, but i thought it was ok, sometimes even a bit cute, so i'm interested in hearing why so many people don't like it.
I actually had the exact same experiance. When I read the books as a kid/teenager I didn't care or mind the romances. But recently a reread the books as an adult closing to 30, and god... They all were kinda unpleasant at best (Harry & Ginny) or downright worrying at worst (Ron & Hermione). I honestly felt anxious reading all these toxic and abusive scenes portrayed as romantic.
@@stefan4159 Well I am mostly neutral about them. In the movies, yeah its a typical checkbox style plotline Yates needed to do. In the books there is more depth of course, but to me the whole thing still feels like there is very little substance behind it. 1. The biggest issue for me is how distant they are, in a sense that Ginny almost always comes in more like as an afterthought rather than an integral part of Harry's life (or an integral part of the story). Like if you try to paint a picture of Harry's inner world then I would be very surprised if Ginny would take a major role in it. Harry's thoughts are basicly like: 1. Voldermort, 2. Ron & Hermione, 3. His dead parents, 4. Hogwarts and magic, 5. Dubledore ... and the list goes on and Ginny is probably somewhere around quidditch and exams. Sure Ginny is there, but to what extent? Barely episodically... 2. Its kind of a personal preference, but the best romances are centered around companionship rather than sexual tension, which requires deep understanding and great empathy between the characters. To me its just not there in this case. There are very few convos between them that are actually have some depth or substance to it (like the funeral of Dumbledore). Its mostly just Harry internally realizing that Ginny is much cooler and hotter than he thought... and jealousy... 3. I don't really have that much problem with jealousy itself, but the way it's presented in the books is very cringe. Ginny dating Dean, while liking Harry, Harry's stomach (if I remember correctly?) monster... okay just no more examples... Overally to me it's just a thing that is there. It's not really relevant or important, you could just cut out Ginny completely from the story and it would be essentially the same. It is always in the background and its fine to be there, but there is not much value to it and its occasionally unpleasant and cringe.
@@csabas.6342 It's a bit simplistic to say that Harry and Ginny are distant, because that really only takes into account their dynamic in the first four books. And even in those four books, Ginny is an integral part of Harry's life -- or at least, as integral as characters like Fred and George are. Even in those books, Harry continually notices Ginny's feelings, Ginny's actions etc. and goes out of his way to communicate with her, even when she has her extreme shyness around him. And she absolutely starts to take a major role in Harry's life starting in book 5, when he notices her much more than he did previously and they become good friends. Which leads me to your second point... because there is _plenty_ of companionship, understanding and empathy between Harry and Ginny. That's one of the reasons why I am so drawn to this pairing in the first place. And it's not just at Dumbledore's funeral too: there are plenty of other major moments like this, like when they talk about possession, or the library scene, or Harry's 17th birthday. And peppered throughout this are all the little moments, like when Ginny is the only one able to get Harry away from Dumbledore's body, or when she takes his hand while they are worrying about everyone escorting the fake Harry's from Privet Drive, or when she is able to read his mind when he's worrying about being banned from Quidditch by Umbridge. They obviously find each other very attractive, but that's a good thing. The extreme sexual tension thing.... that's more of a Ron/Hermione thing if anything. The extreme jealousy as well: as exemplified by Hermione launching birds at Ron because of Lavender. And so compared to the Yule Ball drama, the Lavender drama, etc., the jealousy that manifests between Harry and Ginny is much more normal and toned down. I don't think the monster was cringe, personally I don't give a shit about it. but I can understand how some would consider it to be. As for Ginny dating two other persons before Harry that was about her trying to move on from Harry or at least put her feelings on hold. I really could not disagree with you more on the last point, both in principle and in practice. The reason why the books are so popular isn't because of "Good guy defeats bad guy" it’s because of the vast array of prominent and not-so-prominent relatable characters that are in the books! Every character plays a valuable role in the tapestry of the HP series, from more primary characters like Harry, Ron, Hermione, Snape, to secondary characters like Ginny, Luna, to the very minor characters like Lockhart, Justin, and Mrs. Figg. Thinking "let's go and cut out Flitwick" is missing the point. Additionally, in Ginny's case, the story would clearly not be the same, starting from Chamber of Secrets onwards.
@@stefan4159 Well I guess there is more merrit in this pairing than I gave credit to it, but to me is still mostly just a completly neutral thing in the background. I still hold my opinion that Ginny's role in the story and Harry's life is very miniscule. Just compare the importance of Hermione and Ron to Harry with Ginny's importance. His 2 friends are basicly almost every page in some form or another and we are constantly reminded how much they mean to Harry, while there is some Ginny thing in every couple hundred pages. She gets the most spotlight in book 6, but if someone would count how many dialogue she has there, I don't think it would lead to very favourable results. She is basically dwarfed by the Dumbledore, the Half Blood Prince, Draco and even the awful drama between Ron and Hermione. If I remember correctly Harry spends more time contemplating about his Slughorn task than thinking about Ginny (but maybe I am wrong in this one). I also still think that she is almost irrelevant to the plot. She has her greatest contribution in Chambers, but she could be switched with a random student. Would the story be worse that way? I think yes, but the point is that her role is not crucial in that book, she is not irreplaceable. Book 3 - I dont remember if she is in there she probably has some sentences. Book 4 - Harry has his Cho thing, Ginny in mentioned here and there. Book 5 the same except she is in DA. Book 6 her most important book, she is hero's love interest - but that plot is almost completely separate from the main plots. Book 7 she is left behind and in the end she participates in the final battle with little to no importance. I agree with you that the jealously thing is not really a big issue. It's kinda normal, especially compared to Ron and Hermione, but many times I just simply had second hand embarrassment. I am not saying that people should feel this way, its simply personal. The whole Harry gradually noticing that she has grown up and has merits is something that also not sits right with me, but it is 100% subjective. Look their limited number of interaction are not bad really, and sometimes it's quite nice maybe even cute, it is just not feels really valuable to me, it's more like I accepted that it is there. I am not saying its an objectively horrible romance or whatever, but it is not a fully fledged out thing and Rowling could have done more with it (but looking at Ron and Hermione its probably better that she didn't).
I always forget how Lily and James romance is written, my head is full of lovely head canons and fanfic about them that I tend to forget how James ACTUALLY was in hogwarts 😭
@@lightdarksoul2097 plus the context that snape and his friends were openly supportive of voldemort, wich is like being positive about a local terrorist
15:32 It's even worse in the films where after interacting with Ginny even less than in the books Harry suddenly decides he loves her after just seeing her at her bedroom window. And the Half Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows films they try to make scenes where she feeds him, ties his shoes and he zips up her dress sexy.
That was entirely random. It's like: oh so loves her now? And is no one creeped out by the fact that Ginny looks exactly like his mother? It was just weird.
@@Xehanort10 There's definitely a Oedipus complex going on there with Harry. Hates his father, is obsessive over his mother's memory, and then marries a girl who looks just like her. Not sure what Rowling was trying to say there.
exactly the prob. I think its worse because the books didn't explain it at all. Like one day he decided to like her, it was so out of the blue but Ron and Hermione made perfect sense
I agree with you in that the romance in the series are very poorly written. And I thought that when I first read the books. Harry x Ginny and Ron x Hermione, to me, can work, but things that make me question exactly how they did end up together are the same ones you pointed out in the video: Harry and Ginny was incredibly rushed. Ginny practically doesn’t have any importance in books 3 and 4 and she played an extremely minor role in book 5. Book 6 is when Harry is actually attracted to her (almost out of complete nowhere if you ask me), they get together for, what, 2 to 4 weeks? And then they break up at the end of the same book. Then she goes back to having almost little importance in the final book, and then they’re married. Like I said, this could have worked for me if Rowling had developed the romance sooner, like we get hints of it in book 4, Harry realizes his feelings and he and Ginny get together in book 5, they spend most of book 6 as a couple until the end, and it can be the same after that. Ron and Hermione never really worked for me because, like you said, they fight A LOT. Some of those fights almost ended their friendship. So when they got together, it didn’t feel earned to me. So I think Rowling should have toned down on the fighting so that way we don’t question how are these two going to spend the rest of their lives together when we’ve seen they can’t go five minutes without being at each other’s throats. They can still have some arguments (couples aren’t going to agree on everything), but don’t have them doing it all the time. Anyway, like I said, these definitely could work (and it has for some fans), but for me, it just hasn’t. And that’s just my opinion.
The worst with RonxHermione was that when they fought, they were mad at each other for months. And then they can’t get over it without Harry’s help. Truly don’t understand how they’re going to live together without couples counseling minimum
Harry and Ginny wasn't rushed. They grew much closer together in book 5, they became very good friends, and Harry ended up noticing her a lot more in that book. The seeds for Ginny being "Harry's best source of comfort" in book 6 were in fact planted in book 5, where Ginny does, indeed, provide Harry with much-needed comfort on at least two occasions. And even if you only take book 6 into account, there were plenty of hints that Harry was falling for Ginny before he saw her in the corridor (hanging out together at the Burrow, Harry's disappointment when she doesn't spend time with him in the train, him watching her during a conversation with Hermione, him smelling her in the Amortentia, him catching a waft of that smell close by, him inviting her to Hogsmeade... there are many others). So, while it could have been developed a little better, the notion that it came out of nowhere is simply not true. Most fans, at least in the book fandom, agree that Ginny was indeed the one for Harry, even if they have a few concerns about the development.
To me I felt like Harry and Ginny could work I like their chemistry. But I feel like JK only did it so Harry would be a “true” member of the Weasley family which is gross to me personally because I already felt like he was borderline adopted by them. They practically raised them so it feels unnecessary and kind of like a discrediting of found family
For Harry/Ginny to work, there needed to be some distinct changes to the series. - I feel like Ginny could have helped Harry get a Yule Ball date in Book 4. That could have involved her in the plot earlier than Book 6, while also allowing Harry to start seeing her as more than a fan girl. I’ve read fanfics where Ginny gets Harry to go with Luna, and it was absolutely glorious. I think this could’ve been a good change. - Another Route you could go is to involve Ginny more in Book 5. Perhaps have her try to help Harry with romancing Cho? Or maybe Ginny gets onto the Quidditch Team as Harry’s backup Seeker? Maybe have Ginny help organize D.A. Meetings? Something could be done to get Harry to notice her athletic abilities (which is the main reason he noticed Cho to begin with). The point is that Ginny needs to be seen more by the reader in either Book 4 or Book 5. Maybe both. She needs to be seen as more of a friend to Harry first, too. This way, he can still “suddenly notice” her in Book 6 without it feeling contrived.
@@lauraalaughing671 THATS WHAT IM SAYING I was always obsessed with her in OOTP as a kid and I think it’s bc I’m bi and she was just so cool. Then she got married and became “normal”
It seemed forced in so many other ways, too. Tonks just seemed so extremely immature compared to Lupin. There was the age difference PLUS the fact that she always acted younger than her age/like she wanted to be down with the teens and stay a teen, while Lupin was acting like he was much older than his actual age, probably because of all the shitty things he had gone through. Like Rowling made it seem Tonks must have had daddy issues or choose Lupin just because she had a thing for werewolfs?
I rember when I was little shipping Harry and Harmonie In the movies. She was literally the only girl he spent time with and as a kid I took that as maybe they'll get together. Few movies pass then it shows more Harmonie and Ron's growing romance I was just- so confused because they really seem to dislike eachother otherwise.
I hate most of the romances. But the thing that annoys me most is that when they made the 6th film. They put the romances front and centre over the Tom Riddle memories. As if that wasn't the best part of the book.
Snape is a jerk. But he teaches at a school where it is somehow acceptable to send 11 year-olds to the forbidden forest as punishment for breaking curfew (Mcgonagall) and has a caretaker that actually wants to use medieval torture devices on kids. Also, Hogwarts has another teacher who fails to recognize that most of his students fall asleep and fail his class and another one who fails to see a student fainting as an emergency, and that maybe one should pause class to check if that student didn't damage his brain. So compared to that, Snape is okay. Which doesn't tell as much about his character as much as all Hogwarts staff being maniacs.
I hate to say it because I've grown to loathe Snape so much over the years, but that's a fair point. In that regard, Snape is doing what seems to be normal at Hogwarts
Okay hold up I will not stand for this sprout Flander that scene with a movie original and not in the book Ask for your comment about the forbidden Forest I think that hagrid requested them for detention we know teachers can do that and that it's okay to break the rules if you have a teacher or staff member of a chaperone the way you can get books from the restricted section if a teacher signs promission. I will give you filth and bins though
I wasn’t into how Ginny just transformed into the Love Interest of All Time off-page. It never felt earned or interesting as it should have been for the romance of the main character of the biggest series at the time.
The only problem I have with the Ginny and Harry romance is that Harry basically says he likes her because she's "not like other girls". Which basically just means she plays quidditch and doesn't cry when he breaks up with her 🤔
@@stefan4159 it's never stated outright, but it's a wider pattern in the books. Ginny's whole thing is being "not like other girls." Cho is a girly girl with giggly friends, always crying. While Ginny is more "tough" and independent. She breaks up with Dean because he tries to help her climb through the portal hole, making her feel like a damsel in distress. She's constantly portrayed distancing herself from stereotypical "womanly" attributes. No, Harry doesn't actually say that he likes her because she's "not like other girls," but he literally gushes about how he likes her because she's so stoic and not teary when he breaks up with her.
I was shocked at my own memories when I re-read the books and noticed that Cho Chang gets maybe 4 pages in the book. I thought she was a way bigger subplot than that.
Tonks, the more I think about it, was a pretty atrocious character assassination because in Book 5, she's this cool punky attitude-laden newcomer to the squad, and then she falls and love and becomes so pathetic she can't even use her super-rare congenital mutant power anymore until she gets to be his little wife who literally follows him to the grave. Almost gives me pre-TERF vibes just based on how I read it. Like, any woman who falls in love and marries will inherently give up her ambiguity and spunk for the man, changing everything about her own identity right down to her patronus, to match his.
To be fair, unlike Lupin, Tonks is an auror. It´s literally her job to fight against dark wizards. Why should she stay at home and let her husband fight when that´s what she is trained to do? And storywise, their marriage is simply there to go against the ideals of blood purity (Tonks has a pureblood mother and Lupin is a werewolf. And in the 7th book it is said that blood purity also affects the way how other magical folks like Lupin are treated, and Lupin even explains how their marriage is frowned upon by the majority of the wizarding world, including Tonks´ own family.) and their son parallels Harry. And many other characters like Snape also change because of love. And because neither Tonks or Lupin are staying at Hogwarts, overall there´s not much attention that can be put into that relationship so we don´t know all the details, we know basically nothing about their private lives. And in the 6th book her changed behaviour is more like a red-herring that mostly just distracts from the real mystery of that book. That´s why the truth about her is explained only at the end of the novel when the main plot is already over.
@@mgp1203 Yup, considering how Tonks was so carefree in the 5th book, it makes her drastically changed behaviour so much more alarming for the reader in the 6th book. And what Lupin says in the 7th book makes his own behaviour make sense too. We´re just meant to fill in the blanks when it comes to their romance that we can´t see because they´re both ultimately just side characters.
I wouldn’t either but to explain some things. So, Herimone was 15 but is technically 16 because of the whole time turner thing. Since Herimone had lived her third year twice.She kept going back in time because of her taking extra classes that were at the same time as her others. Then, we have Victor who is 18 years old. So basically this means they have a 2-3 age gap which isn’t weird. Plus, they didn’t really date much. The only thing they have done was going to the dance and then have a long distance relationship, with them communicating to each other by sending letters to each other. Then, they broke up before Herimone’s 6 year.
@@Rawan.9472 no that’s not how it works, she didn’t spend 365 days worth of time using the turner she only did it for classes which are like a hour each, she didn’t relive a entire year just a couple classes
Bill and Fleur were very wholesome, the best couple actually but JK and every female character loathed and crapped on Fleur, I felt disgusted by the blatant misogyny at times but they were also pure perfection as a couple. Hermione and Ron had sweet moments in the book just chaotic due to their hormones and stubbornness, they weren't an epic love but they're a fun read by the end. Harry and Ginny, I can't get behind. They are cute at times but we spend about THREE books on Harry thinking Cho was hot, one failed date and then gets together with Ginny and now they're in love? We get told they got close in the summer but we don't see it
You do realize that Fleur had a condescending, vain, and rude personality, from the moment she is introduced in the Goblet of Fire? She treats Ginny like she's a three year old, and kept on comparing how things were at the Burrow and Hogwarts to how she did it at home. Fleur literally says that "there's nothing to do at the Burrow, unless you like cooking or chickens". No wonder they didn't like her. Really, it's only with the Hospital Wing scene that she is established as a good character, but that doesn't mean that she's an angel from heaven that everyone misunderstood. No, Harry and Ginny didn't come out of nowhere. In OotP, for instance, Harry and Ginny grow closer together and become very good friends, Harry begins to notice her personality and looks a lot more, and they share plenty of deep as well as light-hearted moments. This is because Ginny finally abandoned completely her previous shyness. This sets the stage for Harry eventually falling for her in the HBP; and even before the chest monster there are plenty of hints that Harry is into Ginny (like on the Hogwarts Express, the Amortentia, Harry watching Ginny when he's talking with Hermione, them joking around during the summer, Harry inviting Ginny to spend the day with them in Hogsmeade, Harry thinking negatively of Ginny and Dean at Hogsmeade in Madam Puddifoot's, his reluctance to ask Dean to replace Katie).
@@stefan4159 That's fair enough. Maybe on my next reread I'll enjoy Ginny and Harry better since I do want to. But Fleur being condescending is okay too, she's allowed to have flaws. My main issue was that the was often mocked for her broken English and beauty so it was uncomfortable to read
Here's a red flag for you Hinny (or whatever you people call it) lovers: "I knew you wouldn’t be happy unless you were hunting Voldemort. Maybe that’s why I like you so much." Yes, this is a direct quote, straight out of Ginny's mouth as Harry tries to break up with her and honestly... has this girl even met Harry? He doesn't like to "hunt" Voldemort. Heck, Harry isn't the one doing the hunting. I bet if Voldie contracted a disease and died during the books, Harry would try to make that day a national wizarding holiday. And "that's why I like you so much"? And people get salty when I call her a fangirl. What Ginny loves isn't Harry. At least not the realistic version of Harry. She loves basilisk slayer Harry. She likes the hero Harry. She likes Harry's ideal hero version. What Ginny is is a run of the mill fangirl that loves the Boy Who Lived. I really hoped that they'd keep her as a background character, but then she had to break up with Dean. I also hoped that after that brilliant line from Ginny Harry would've made the breakup personal and official, but no. Hinny is made canon in the Epilogue. Rowling gave us Bill/Fleur (my only canon Harry Potter OTP), but she did Ginny so dirty by making her a primary character.
It's only a red flag if you completely misunderstand 1) what Ginny is saying 2) Harry and Ginny's individual personalities 3) their overall relationship 4) the context of the plot. Ginny is _not_ saying "I knew *_you'd be happy_* to hunt Voldemort". Because she is in fact correct in the original quote - i.e. "I knew you *_wouldn't_* be happy *_unless_* ". Ginny doesn't mean that he's glad to fight Voldemort and that he will be doing so with a smile on his face. She means that his personality and morality would not deter him from his mission, because he wants to do the right thing no matter what, and that failure to do so means an increased chance of Voldemort rampaging across the Wizarding World. What Ginny says is in relation to the possibility that Harry just sits things out... and no, he absolutely wouldn't be happy in that scenario! Hell, he says as much to Dumbledore in Chapter 23 of HBP. Whereas if Harry takes the fight to Voldemort, he at least has a chance of being happy, at least after the whole thing is done and dusted with. So, far from it being proof of Ginny not understanding him, it's in fact proof that they do "understand each other perfectly", to quote the scene itself, and that they do have a shared morality, worldview and personality. And no, Ginny is not a "run of the mill fangirl". She is no different to the Twins, Ron and Hermione, who, yes, at first acted based on his fame, but then grew quickly past that. Once she knew more about him she developed feelings for her older brother's cool best friend. It's not that complicated. Hell, if anything, as early as book 2 Ginny clearly grasps a key feature of Harry's personality, namely his aversion to his fame and status and being paraded around; something that every single other hero-worshipper -- for ex. Colin Creevey and Romilda Vane -- clearly did not understand.
@@foxial5358 Thank you so much! I understand that H/G might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I dislike when people actively spread dis/misinformation about the pairing.
I completely agree. I’ve also found the Hinny ship incredibly creepy because Harry essentially marries his mommy clone. Like, really Harry? I get it, Lily died when he was baby, but a girl who has red hair and freckles and looks like his sainted dead mother save for her eye color is your ideal chick? Gross.
The thing with Ginny is that she’s basically a completely different character between books 2 and like, 5. Starts out as this complete shrinking violet and then she’s all of a sudden the Cool Sports Girl who can roughhouse with the boys and has a temper. Yes that kind of change in temperament can happen as someone grows up, but we never see the progression so it comes out of nowhere. Also, Ginny is 35 or 36 in the epilogue, meaning she started having kids when she was 24 or 25. We also know that JKR’s said Ginny plays for the Holyhead Harpies as an adult. Since we never see any mothers in HP who work outside the home, that presumably means that Ginny, who loved Quidditch and was one of the best players on the team, only plays professionally for at MOST seven years.
THANK YOU! I've felt weird about the romances since HS in 2009 when we were all team rowling and saying things bad about the books was a no no. I also always felt like Cho/Harry was the most compelling and was really disappointed when it was clear Ginny was going to be end game for SOME reason. and Remus and Tonks are so OBVIOUSLY both gay, even in subtext that something just felt OFF about them. Like you said, feels like he marries her out of pity (The man doesnt even smile when she shares the news/ring! She's beaming and he's apparently zoning out wishing to die like are you joking???) and then tries to RUN AWAY BEFORE HE GETS STUCK LIKE YIKES. He's happy about being a Dad because, yeah, sure! You can love your kid without... you know... loving your spouse lmao it's all so much....
To be fair, in the 7th book, Lupin explains the reason why he is worrying so much, not because he doesn´t love Tonks, but because their marriage is frowned upon by the vast majority of the wizarding world outside of the Order and Hogwarts. He explains it has made Tonks an outcast, even her own family doesn´t completely approve. Considering everything he went through, it´s understandable he doesn´t want his wife and child bear the burden of it. And storywise, their marriage is simply there to go against the ideals of blood purity which was the main theme of the books that often ties different characters and their stories together, and their son parallels Harry.
9:16 Then there's "Always" a quote that has always sickened me. It's intended to be "Yes I still love her even now" but is more like Snape's still obsessed with Lily years after her death even though she only saw him as a friend in a friendship he ruined by calling her a Mudblood even though she'd just stopped James and Sirius bullying him. Snape himself was also part of a gang of bullies as bad as the Marauders. He'd have let her be happy with James if he'd actually loved her not gone "If I can't have you" and asked Voldemort to kill James and Harry but leave Lily alive for him.
And that's what makes Snape irredeemable to me. He wanted Lily so badly that he was fine with them killing her husband and innocent child. He's a terrible person and I can't feel sorry for him.
@@mish375 I'll never understand how anybody thinks he's tragic. Some of his crazier fanboys and fangirls think Lily should have dated Snape out of pity for him growing up poor and being abused and bullied and say she's shallow for not doing that.
@@Xehanort10 And they're the same ones who will say that a girl being friends with a man doesn't entitle her to date them. A person isn't owed a relationship just for being friends with someone. You know, if Rowling really wanted to make Snape sympathetic, she could have written it that Snape tried to save the entire family for Lily's sake; but it ended badly anyways. And then if Rowling was a better writer, she would have built up Snape and Harry's relationship as reluctant mentor-student over the 7 books, without Harry knowing about Snape's past with Lily. But that never happens.
Idk why people assume Snape believed he'd have Lily tho. He said spare Lily cuz he cared about her. He never said spare Lily to take out the competition so I can get her instead. That just seems like the worst possible interpretation when in reality, it makes sense he'd ask to spare his former friend and NOT his former bully.
In Snape’s defense: don’t skip over the fact that he watches his best friend grin at him being assaulted before he called her mudblood. Lily is not a victim
I think it all needed an bit rewriting/reworking for it all to work out. Like for example SHOW the audience James has grown as an person when dating Lily not just bully her best friend behind her back while dating her. (Also JK written a short story on James meeting Lily's sister and her husband he was very rude to them ruining their relationship.) Why is James considered good again? I mean at least he did defend his wife and son but outside of that he seems to be an jerk. Also it would have better for Snape to join the Death Eater (Being a double agent) AFTER Lily's death not before so we as the audience can sympathize with him more so. Let Lily's and Snape's falling out be because James is still bullying him and Lily not believing that her changed boyfriend is still being an asshole. Boom. Lily can still sacrifice herself for Harry without Snape begging Voldy to spare her. It doesn't ruin the story. Also don't have Lily's smiling during Snape's worst memory! It makes the reader question why he never moved on from her. Those are just an few changes I would personally make to the Harry Potter story anyway.
Good ideas! But the problem is, the only reason Lily had the chance to sacrifice her life for Harry's is that Voldemort promised Severus to spare Lily if he could. That's why he gave her the chance to step aside; anyone else he would have avada kedavra'd without a second thought, like he did James Potter just a few seconds before. To my mind, if Snape had never joined the Death Eaters, the Chosen One wouldn't be Harry Potter, but Draco Malfoy. That's because Lucius Malfoy's wealth and connections made him useful enough that Voldemort would be willing to spare him if he'd step out of the way and allow his son to be slaughtered... and neither Lucius nor Narcissa would be willing to do that. So... Voldemort kills both of them, giving Draco the love protection that makes avada kedavra bounce off him and disintegrates Voldy into his component atoms. Thus Draco Malfoy becomes the Boy-Who-Lived, savior of the Wizarding World. 😉
@@astrinymris9953 To fix that problem Voldemort has actually asked Lily and James to join him infact it was one of the times they, "trice betrayed him." Which doesn't make any sense because Lily is muggleborn. My thought is Voldemort could shove Lily to the side/tell her to get away and he'd want her to live because it's a testament to his cruelty as punishment for turning him down he'd make Lily live without James and watch her only son die.
@@astrinymris9953no..if Snape never joined the death eaters, the chosen one would have been Neville Longbottom. He also matched the requirements of the prophecy, it was only that voldemort chose harry as his equal coz he was a half blood like him. Draco never matched the requirements, voldemort would have no reason to kill him in the first place for all these events to unfold.
I'll never understand how Lily saw James as boyfriend material after knowing he assaulted her best friend as blackmail for dates. And yeah I hated that Lily smiled. WTF. It makes her a very toxic friend and I have no clue why Snape still considered her to be a friend afterwards.
I read some of the Amazon free preview of 'The Ink-Black Heart' so I can confirm: Rowling cannot write believable romance. 🤣 She's also not good at writing functional parent/child relationships if you stop to think about it. She tries to with Molly Weasley and gets a few good moments, but it's really underwhelming. Molly can't remember Ron's favorite color or food preferences, she and Arthur go on a winter vacation that her sons are not invited to during Ron's *first year* at Hogwarts, and buys him horrible dress robes for the Yule Ball. Now, you can say this is because she has so many kids, and so she shouldn't be blamed. But at essential part of being a parent is providing for your children. If you don't have the time and money to support seven kids, then *don't have seven kids*. You can't tell me the Wizading World doesn't have highly effective contraception. But a bigger problem is the Weasley don't use what money they have effectively. I mean, they win the lottery, and decide to blow that money on an Egyptian vacation rather than keeping it back to pay for their children's needs. It's baffling. I can't decide if this is Rowling's difficulty with internal consistency or expressing her real life political beliefs about the causes of poverty.
I mean they probably don’t to answer your comment about contraception, the wizarding world is placed firmly in the early 20th century. They could have magical alternatives but they probably aren’t looked on well, it isn’t like Hogwarts has sex education, and the only times we see someone intervening is when Snape chases students from bushes and Umbridge magically separating a couple (hurrah for the bad guys preventing teen pregnancy right?!😂) as far as Molly and Arthur are concerned, according the Rowling, Molly wanted a daughter but she kept having sons.
Her experience with poverty was basically a year and a half long. She got on benefits (I'm going to call that Safety Net #0 because while that is ideally the default for someone in poverty, people also get denied benefits all the time) and moved out of her sister's house (Safety Net #1 she could have returned to if things got real tight again), finished writing the first book in her brother-in-law's cafe (Safety Net #1.5, since I assume that came with free food), she had a part-time job where she earned just enough to not lose her benefits (Safety Net #2), one friend lent her several hundred pounds to move into a better flat (Safety Net #3), then another friend just gave her money to go back to school to get her teaching certificate (Safety Net #4). I fully understand how it would have seemed so difficult to someone who had grown up middle class and was struggling with depression while going through a messy divorce with an abusive husband, but she also had a lot of support, financial and otherwise, that most people in real poverty would not have had. And that's reflected in the Weasleys. They're "poor", but somehow there's always just enough to scrape by. I don't think she was making any commentary about them being poor because they're irresponsible with money either, I think she legitimately didn't notice that they were because she didn't exactly scrimp and save her way out of poverty either. If she ever really needed money, there were plenty of people who could and did loan or give it to her.
I think you'll find it's the former is the reason. I think you will find its Rollings inconsistencies. I have spent so much time recently finding so many consistencies in her writing and her books. It's absolutely incredible, and I can't help wondering how it got past the editors. It is just so full of potholes, plot conveniences, character inconsistencies… lately I have thought that about the Weasleys, but it is not the only character in consistency she has. Recently, I was alerted to another big one.
Nah she is. How was that underwhelming? Tbf they have so many kids...it`s hard to remember all of that. Her buying Ron bad dress robes is on her but no parent is perfect and that is functional and believable writing. True but it still makes sense and explains why she is like that. It could be neither and that the Weasleys just are not good at saving money.
Rowling is a divorced woman, I think it bleeds through that she writes every couple in the most toxic, bitter, bickering way possible. It's not healthy and it is weird how the "see they do love each other" bits are just when the character is showing JEALOUSY and PASSIVE AGGRESSION... like that's the sign that you're in love. It's crazy.
The James problem is so true. When I read books as a kid, I was convinced he's a terrible person. Also I thought Lily was a bully too, that's why she married him, and that's why her sister hated her and her son so much.
I never considered that Lily is as bad as Petunia but maybe she's just viewed as sainted in hindsight. But that's honestly a good interpretation given she didn't really seem like a good friend tbh. She believes James about werewolf incident over her supposed best friend. She also smiled when James attacked Snape too.
To me, Harry Potter is like the Star Wars prequels: I liked them as a kid, and I still like them today as an adult. Even if the more I think about them, the more problems I find.
Maybe you are having your perpective bad, if you think that Anakin and Padme had a star crossed romance, like Padme, you are ignoring all the red flags, even that are problems in both sides, Anakin wanted a replacement for his mother, that why he was so obsessed for Padme, and Padme wanted a family outside her duties, their ideologies are categorically opposite, Anakin believe in the outdated concept of the philosopher king that is basically a dictator, and Padme a believes in a hardcore democracy, also the fact that Anakin is jealous all the time with some men in Padme life, ignore his wife ideas and feelings in front her face when he is around Palpatine, their marriage was doomed to fail from the beginning.
@@TheKeyser94their marriage was doomed because Anakin was a literal child when they met. They never should have gotten together in the first place because that’s called grooming.
this isn't really a fair point. They met knew each other for a short time in phantom menace, then diddnt see each other for 10 years until attack of the clones when they were both adults. I really don't see any argument for that being grooming. If they knew each other better in phantom menace or if they'd seen each other at any point in the decade between the films you might have a point, but I don't see it.
@@LilCinnamonRoll2006 I blame the casting for that. Anakin was 9 and Padme was 14 - played by the then 19 Natalie, so of course it looked weird. Personally I have nothing against Jake, but Anakin should have been cast as a 12 years old, and Padme in ep 1 should have been played by Keira Knightley, who was not simply 14 at that time, but she was playing Sabé, the main decoy! Then switch to Natalie for the other 2 movies and everything is fixed: all the weird age gaps removed, everyone is the age they should be, and a 12 years old having a crush on a 14 years old is completely realistic.
@@LilCinnamonRoll2006 Bizarre take. Padme was 14 in TPM, and she knew Anakin for like a few days and did nothing to him. The fact that they got together 10 years later does not mean she groomed him.
Ron and Hermione are by far my least favorite. They were entirely unconvincing as a couple, having experienced so much animosity between the two, their affections for each other felt forced and out of place. When they came together it seemed strange, and made both of them seem out of character. I think the main issue is that the character growth that would have been required to see them make a believable couple never happened. Ron would have needed to gain some more emotional intelligence, and Hermione more patience and less vindictiveness. It never happened. Remus and Tonks was frankly ridiculous. There was never anything that foreshadowed the relationship in their interactions so it seemed out of the blue. I also believe Rowling gave Remus a wife and child for emotional effect when he died. The thing is, I don’t believe he should have died from a story-writing point of view in the first place. But anyways, their deaths, although sad, never affected the audience in the way they should have because we never felt emotionally invested in their relationship.
I don’t mind Ron and Hermione’s thing because I think it makes sense. They both go through a lot of trauma, though not as much as Harry. They strive to help Harry but can’t really understand him fully. It makes sense that they’d turn to each other for comfort. What bugs me is how much jealousy is used by JKR to denote that characters like each other. Some jealousy is normal, but I don’t think it should be so prominent in every single romance, to the point where it’s the main way of showing characters like each other. That’s so toxic. Edit: also Snape is a fucking scumbag, fuck that double crosser.
Snape is a selfish @sshole even at the end. All he cared about was getting with Lily and didn't care if her husband and child died. And people seem to think this humanizes him. No, no it does not.
As someone who got into the HP fandom. I did like the Cho X Harry ship. Honestly I could never get into Hermione X Ron romance. From the movies I did like the alternative ship of Harry X Hermione. I feel if JK did write a good romance writing I would say opposites attract would be Hermione X Draco. This is why I prefer Rick Riodan Percy Jackson series. At least he makes their romances so good & consistent like Percy X Annabeth. We see them grow from Book 1 to book 10.
@@livlmao508 not really. The “strong woman always ends up with the weaker man” trope is Hermione and Ron’s relationship. Hermione and Harry actually made sense it wasn’t a trope. Hermione was not popular, an “it girl” or anything of the sort, she was just his friend and Harry possessed more qualities she admired than Ron did. By comparison, in reality, Hermione wouldn’t even consider Ron. She’d get with Harry. As someone who sees herself in female characters like Hermione it’s be refreshing to see a healthy romance for these kinds of women characters and one where the hero wants to get with her and not the weaker, prettier damsel in distress in Ginny.
@@thebadguychinli4011 I woudn't really call Ron the "weaker man"; he had quite a few redeeming qualities. I don't think getting concussed by a life-sized chess piece at 11 for your friend to continue his dangerous adventure to prevent a bad guy from getting his hands on a "brings-people-back-from-the-dead" stone, standing up for your friend's honor (although the slug spell backfired on him because of his broken second-hand wand) when they get bullied at 12, and standing up against a known murderer on a broken leg to defend your friend at 13, and many other acts of bravery would categorize as "weak". This whole spectrum of a strong worthy man and an incompetent weak man is quite toxic in itself in my opinion. PS. Even though Ginny did start off as a sort of damsel-in-distress with the Chamber of Secrets and was outwardly depicted as attractive (or in Harry Potter's case very inwardly), she's in no way a "weak woman"; she's actually pretty badass and fiery in the books.
I only like the series till the third book/film. I never did like Ron/Hermione ship due to to the fact that it was toxic and emotionally abusive. He treated her poorly and we’re expected to think it was wonderful that they got together in the end. I never liked Harry with Cho, or Ginny. Both were cringy immature relationships. His anger suddenly popped out of no where in the fourth book, regarding Ginny dating Dean(?) Where was his crush on or feeling a towards Ginny before hand? There was no evidence that in three years that Harry knew the Weasley’s that he had feelings towards her. And we’re supposed to believe that? The most cringy line that I can remember was when his anger was “stirred like an angry lion.” Yeah, sure. 🙄 This is why I ship Luna/Harry. The fan on pairing feels genuine. And I do believe that although Luna was written to be an outcast and largely weird, I think she understood Harry, more than anyone else. Tonks/Lupin was such an odd pairing that I couldn’t ship it. The only pairing that I like is Luna/Harry, even though it’s fanon.
Here we go again with the same old Ron bashing masquerading as criticism of Ron/Hermione. As though Hermione never treated Ron poorly. And considering Harry and Ginny are confirmed to have stayed together for decades (as they are married), how the hell can you claim that it's just like Harry and Cho's immature relationship? And you are missing so, so many details with Harry and Ginny's relationship, because first of all, Harry's anger about Ginny and Dean did not happen in the fourth book! Harry realized he had feelings for Ginny in the sixth book. This is built up from the fifth book, in which Harry is noticing her a lot more and they become good friends.
Personally I felt they could have just cut the romance with Cho Chang all together and just focused on Harry and Jinny and right from the start Rowling spent books 4 and 5 building up Cho as a potential love only to kinda just have her fade into obscurity as a result the Harry and Cho dinamic ultimately didn't serve much of a purpose outside teen drama
Nah bro, Ginny and Harry was just weird, it's not good. It's not problematic or anything, it's just really rushed, and Ginny frankly has little to no personality. I can only think of like, two or three things about her, and one of those is that's she's in love with Harry.
It's not rushed, it just could have used a bit more developed. But there were plenty of hints towards the pairing before Harry stumbles across her and Dean in book 6. And the "little to no personality" thing is only from the movies. At least from the books, there are many more things that one can think about Ginny: +++ She's a great cat lover +++ She is friends with Neville and Luna +++ She was banned from Hogsmeade due to leading the DA rebellion in the school +++ Like Neville, she was likely tortured +++ She doesn't get along well with Fleur +++ She looks up to Fred and George This is all surface-level stuff, there is plenty more on her character in the books, both surface-level and in detail. And with respect to "She's in love with Harry" that itself is more nuanced.
@@stefan4159 I've read the books, and I seriously cannot remember a single one of these things that you have listed, other than perhaps she was friends with Neville and Luna, but that really doesn't give her a personality does it? The only other thing I can remember is that she's good at Jinxes. Frankly, how nuanced is her love for Harry? She was read bedtime stories about the Boy Who Lived and frankly it's very obviously hero-worship, and she didn't really spend any amount of time with him alone as far as I can remember. 90% of the time Ginny and Harry were in the same room, it was with the rest of the Weasley family, so they didn't have many interactions aside from very brief ones. Frankly, I just prefer Harry and Cho.
Its only weird because there was no build up, and its the same for ron and hermione except there was build but was done horribly, the funny thing is that there unironically decent build ups for hermione and harry, but it seemed as if some act of god decided that she would like ron early on in the movies despite having good chemistry and weirdly close interaction together, if anything else, jk needed to write ron a new character to love or had him not there at all, hell make ron a girl and have harry fall in love with girl ron to cause some drama with hermione or smth.
I would have loved for Harry to end up with Cho Chang eventually. I never liked Ginny in the books or the movies the way she was written. Her glow up was sudden and abrupt and out of alignment with how she was barely written in earlier books
There was nothing sudden about Ginny's development; even when she was shy, you could see glimpses of her true personality. Even Ron comments in book 2 that "it's weird for her" to be this shy.
I never bought the whole "She's actually tough and was only shy around Harry." Just feels like she went from shy girl with a crush to suddenly "all the boys fancy Ginny and all the girls want to be her friend."
Same. She's mean-spirited and arrogant in the books, and just a flat piece of cardboard in the movies. Not criticising her actor, by the way, it's the writing for Ginny that gave her nothing to work with.
@@Niobesnuppa In the Half Blood Prince film Ginny was downright weird especially when she says "Don't you trust me" before feeding Harry a mince pie. It comes off like she put love potion in it which would explain how he goes from barely interacting with her to thinking she's the sexiest woman on earth. And later she comes down the stairs in a dressing gown, looks like she's about to blow him when she bends down to tie his shoe and before Bellatrix burns the Burrow it seemed like Harry and Ginny were about to go upstairs and fuck.
I absolutely love your suggested rewrite of Harry and Ginny's relationship. You're exactly right - it needed a lot more time to bake in the oven. The way it's presented, it just happens way too fast for readers to really care about it, even though sharp readers were able to guess several books beforehand that they'd end up together.
The first part of Lily x James is amazing! But where the hell is the rest of it?! We needed to see James stop, for Lily at first then to become a better person
Bill and Fleur - thumbs up Arthur and Molly - thumbs up James and Lily - totally unconvincing. He is a toerag in OOTP, there is no direct evidence for his alleged change of character, and even in DH, when he is mentioned in Lily's letter, he is merely mentioned, not seen. The JP of DH might as well be a different person from the JP of OOTP. And the sainted Lily was very unforgiving after Snape used the M word. He tried to apologise. Like Hermione, Lily has a vindictive streak. James Potter is like Draco; Lily is like Hermione; Ron is like both Sirius and Lupin. One of the conclusions that I draw from the books is that Harry is a poor judge of character, and too emotional and biased to let go of a grudge. He fails, until it is too late to change anything, to grow out of his animosity to Snape. Of course, Snape was very unfair and immature to hate Harry, who can't help his parentage or looks; but even so, Harry should have grown up a bit more. Maybe he was too traumatised by the Dursleys to be able to.
Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will shut up haters like you for good.
@@JamesMC04 You know, your James hate (which Rowling is reported to be unnerved by) is exactly the reason why there should DEFINITELY be a story about the Potter family or Marauders with James as the main/central character under his POV. And I would love to see the look on your face if that happened!
@@paulyb7267 My opinion on all of this seems to bother you an awful lot. I'm sorry if that is so. Something as unimportant as a difference of opinion about a fictional character should not hurt people; life is too short for that. You have your opinion - and I have mine. Is there something wrong in that ? Again, I apologise if my expression of opinion hurt you.
I’ve always disliked James and Lily too, just looking at the books/movies. I can excuse Ron and Hermione because of the pressure that they were consistently under, but what was James’s excuse?
@@violetlavi2207 From what I understand, he lived in Slytherin. Would you turn the whole school against you? James hated him because of his house, as far as I know.
@@charissawilkinson9270 maybe at first, but he really started hating Snape because a) they had a mutual rivalry and b) Snape literally went around calling Muggleborns “Mudbloods”, hung around with Death Eaters, and laughed about Dark Magic
@@violetlavi2207 If you have enemies in 3 of 4 houses, are you really going to burn your last bridge? Or will you have a small sense of self-preservation.
@@charissawilkinson9270 …so there’s actually no justification for laughing about Dark Magic being used against someone and calling various Muggleborns a bigoted slur unprompted, hope this helps!
Not to mention that Remus is in his mid to late thirties and Tonks is in her early 20s. She's the same age as CHARLIE, Ron's brother. She's only 8 years older than a kid young enough to be Remus's son. If it wasn't so obvious that it's REMUS that's being forced into this relationship that he CLEARLY doesn't want to be in (hence all the avoiding and running away he does through the whole thing) I'd be calling grooming all over this! She married a man that's almost as old as her own parents. He was already a Hogwarts student when she was BORN. Maybe in another decade or so, a relationship with a 12 year age gap could work, but not when she's 23 and he's 35. Those are totally different life stages. Hell, her brain isn't even fully developed yet! Just reverse the scenario and imagine it's Tonks that everyone was pressuring to get with a man 12 years older than her rather than the other way around if you can't see how squick that is. I loved Remus and I loved Tonks as two individuals, but their whole "love" story kind of ruined their characters in my eyes. Tonks of book 6 is not the same spunky and cool character as the Tonks from book 5. And that whole "she wasn't depressed because her cousin and one of the only members of her family that actually accepted her and loved her despite her halfblood status died in front of her, but because the man she wants doesn't want her so now she can barely manage to function and her powers are all out of wack" thing was just horrible. Because apparently a woman's only worth is to be loved by a man and if he refuses to love her she's incapable of picking herself back up and moving on to other prospects and finding happiness and self-validation outside of him.
Ooh I forgot how much I hated that storyline. As you said, which is weird because I liked both Lupin and Tonks before. I liked their death scene, as sad as it was, that was well-written. But JKR and romance, man.
Sorry but a lot of people today have a 12 years age gap in their relationship. There is literally nothing weird with being 23 and being with a person who's 35. 35 is still young. 23 is a full grown adult. The romance is just poorly written, it has nothing to do with the age of the characters.
Agreed, Tonks really should´ve been just written to be in her 30s as well, but to be fair, wizards live 2-3 times longer than muggles, so age gaps like that could be expected and there are much weirder things in the wizarding world, like half-elves and half-giants, not to mention blood purity. In many other fantasy novels there are even bigger age gaps (even hundreds of years) and characters often loose their magic/abilities as a sign of their heartbreak. And storywise, in the 6th book, Tonks´ weird behaviour is more like a red-herring that mostly just serves to distract the readers from the real mystery of that book, (that´s why the truth about her is explained only at the end when the main plot is already over) and their marriage goes against the ideals of blood purity (in the 7th book Lupin explains how their marriage is frowned upon by the majority of the wizarding world) and then their son parallels Harry. And many other characters like Snape also change because of love. And because neither Tonks or Lupin are living at Hogwarts, overall there´s just not much attention that can be put into that relationship so we don´t know all the details anyway.
@@kameronbailey6939 While there often are bigger age gaps in fantasy books, realistically, it´s still quite a big age gap during that age, wizards or not. And it´s not like their ages are that important storywise so Tonks could´ve been easily written to be in her 30s too and their story would´ve been exactly the same.
Ok, I'm five minutes through and I'm interrupting to leave a comment. I'll watch the rest later. I agree on the fact that Rowling isn't very good at writing healthy or nuanced romantic relationship. She's good at writing singular scenes, but not at contesualizing them or at building an arc. BUT... I don't actually agree with your perspective on it either 😅. For example, you seem very much focused on how toxic Hermione is to Ron, when I think Ron was much much worse. Hermione may be vindictive, but Ron is EVEN MORE so. In the 3rd book: yes, she didn't want to aknowledge that her pet was a danger to Ron's pet. Stupidity and stubborness, I guess. It's bad and it shouldn't be underastimated, but she was a child and she had no ill intention. But I remember that Ron was absolutely mean to her even before things happened to Scabbers. He didn't forgave her for the Firebolt incident, for example, even though she may had her good reasons. And he was mean on purpose even after things were resolved. He held a grudge even after Harry, who was the one who was actually wronged, had alredy forgiven her. Regarding book 6: yes, she did the bird thing. It's bad. Still, it was because Ron started to ignore her and be deliberately aggressive to her, all of a sudden and without giving her a single explanation, only to make her pay for having kissed Krum (which he had just discovered from Ginny). Really??? How wrong is that? Things were going smoothly between him and Hermione at the time, but that doesn't mean she couldn't have had a strory with someone else BEFORE, just because at the point they seemed about to get togheter. She isn't your property, Ron, y'know? And I remember that Ron was bad to her in book 4 too, but I read it long ago and I don't remember the details. So... Hermione did bad things, but never without a reason, and she never started a fight. Her bad reactions were mostly responses to very mean actions from Ron. The only time she REALLY went overboard, imo, was with Marietta and the scroll, which had nothing to do with Ron (but which Ron approved). The only reason why I might be ok with them getting togheter is that I hope Ron grew up during the 7th book. His jealousy before was really excessive, "controlling" and out of place. Regarding Hermione's two "physical aggressions": sadly, nothing different from what regularly happens in the magical world. Ron threw himself in "muggle-style fights" more than once with Malfoy and co. Wizards seem to have a different perception of danger and physical pain than us: just think about Fred and George's "jokes". Oh, I also remember that Ron casually threw a knife at George/Fred once, and Fred/George immediately, just as casually, turned it into a paper plane. Hearing you say "a character like Hermione would have never forgiven Ron for leaving, it isn't realistic" is what drove me to write this comment. It's just... not true. Hermione held grudges, but she ALWAYS forgave Ron and Harry in the past. The only time something extreme had to happen before she forgave Ron was in book 6, when Ron was mean to her for days without giving her any explanation just as they were about to get togheter, and then he suddenly started to date another girl. If she could forgive him then, she sure can do it when Ron had actually valid excuses to act the way he did and immediately regretted it. I'm not a Hermione apologist, by the way. I don't dislike her, and I quite enjoy her at times, but she isn't my favorite character, nor one of my favorites. Ron, on the other hand, was my favorite character in book 1 and 2. But early as book 3 I started to be disappointed in him.
Ron and Hermione are an absolutely abysmal couple. They have no build up at all, because all they do is fight, and constant fighting isn't something to build a relationship off of.
They ended up together because Hermione is JK´s self-insert, and Ron is her childhood friend (the one JK secretly wanted to be with). Rowling also admitted it was just meant to be wish-fulfillment.
tbh theyre one of my faves (not that there's much to choose from..) but i completely get what you're saying. it would've been way better if she hadn't made everyone find their endgame couples by the end of the series. itd prob be realistic if they had fallen in love years after book 7 but she just needed to have a cheesy rushed happy ending smh
When I read the books I was always repulsed by James and Lily for the exact reasons you mentioned. I NEVER understood why seemingly the whole fandom was obsessed with them🥲
I never understood how Harry and Ginny fell in love. It just seemed so sudden. The only thing that suggested that they might end up together was when Ginny looked at Harry when she first met him and seemed kinda shy around him. I also don't know what Ron and Hermione saw in each other. They were best friends, and then suddenly she got mad at him when he didn't consider her for the ball...? I remember so little about their relationships in the books, but maybe that was because there was hardly anything to read about their relationships to begin with...
Actually it wasn't such a sudden thing in the books. He spent so many summer months at the Weasleys' and Rowling actually almost had something solid with the Harry and Ginny romance buildup.
You explained better than I could why I hate it when the fandom is constantly bashing Snape but praising James. James never had any real redemption, Lily only seemed to fall in love with him because Snape called her a slur and she needed to find someone else. But either way, I always thought Lily was an incredibly boring character since she was just so perfect. I also think Harry x Ginny was the couple I was least invested in BECAUSE of the reasons you listed. She was basically absent for 3 books and then just came back as another beautiful flawless character but because we never saw that growth I still saw her as a child.
Fans like James for 3 reasons: A) they fell in love with book 3 and James is admittedly built up in that book as a good friend to Sirius and Remus. They never saw it coming that James was a bully. B) James is Harry's dad. They like Harry. Thus they liked James and never saw it coming that James is a worse person than his kid. C) James is rich and handsome and popular. He's given a pretty pass. Same way Draco is too. Snape is poor and unattractive and a loser in school. It's not hard to see why superficial fans just like the pretty rich jock more.
The way Snape was towards Hermione and Neville upset me why more than the way he was with Harry, it never seemed to bother Harry as much as the other two
Actually in book Ron and Hermione's relationshipwas not that bad. In the beginning Ron did not like her bossy and know-it-all attitude. But after he saved her from Troll, they became frds. They spend loads of time together in school, even many of the summer holidays Hermione would spend with Ron and they both wrote each other all summer. In fact in books, Ron defended Hermione a lot more actively, like when in 2nd part he was outraged that Malfoy called her a racist slur and tried to jinx him, or when he stood up for her in front of Snape who tried to insult her in 3rd part and even had to end up in detention for it, not just that he joined Harry to defend her when she was insulted by Malfoy in 4th part and even cursed at Snape when he tried to break them off (at this time Ron was in no talking terms with Harry but he forgot all about it when it came to Hermione). Ron also praised Hermione's jinxing skills and intelligence much often in books. In the 3rd and 4th part both had just reached teen, both were being stupid and over emotional like all teens. Hermione refusing to see how Ron's pet's death can be so scarring to Ron and accepting that Crookshanks was trying to eat it. While Ron who never gave a thought about Hermione being liked or chased by another guy, felt a sense crisis when she went to ball with Viktor and lashed out as he being an idiot as he was did not understand why he felt so angry and annoyed at the thought of Hermione being with another guy. It continued in 5th part where Ron was taken aback to know Hermione was still in contact with Viktor and got upset. All in all, in books there was enough proof of Ron having feelings for Hermione and vice versa. It was the only couple whose story was developed properly. They saw each other at their best and worst and slowly learned to accept and move along with it. In contrast, no other couple was shown properly. Though I really like Bill & Fleur's story, it all happened behind the scenes.
Okay, I think the Snape, James and Lily love triangle makes sense if, and only if, Lily Evans has a sadomasochistic disorder, with a high level of empathy and a rigid code of ethics. None of these three traits are mutually exclusive, but it is a rather dark interpretation. However, it is logical and would explain the love triangle. It would partially explain why Snape thought Lily would be into him if he becomes a death eater and it would explain Lily's attraction to James. Like, every new information J.K Rowling adds point in that direction.
The reason Snape thought Lily would be into him is because he's a delusional idiot with an obsession with Lily. The reason Lily was attracted to James is because he was a handsome, talented, good person. It's not that complicated.
Do you think you could explain further? I'd like to understand, just not sure how sadomasochism would come into play, or which ethics in particular Lily and Snape would be mutually beholden to.
@@en4833 James isn't a good person when Lily develops her crush on him so your argument failed. Lily has a crush on James when James was a bully. Hence Lily IS into dicks
Even though I am a staunch Harry and Hermione shipper, I would have liked Harry and Luna ending up together too. They have some really good and deep moments with each other.
Who's more obsessive the guy who had a crush on his best friend who he actually had a friendship with bed bath & beyond after she rejected him Or the guy who continuously after out for years to fight her constant rejections and bullied her best friend purely because he had a better relationship with her than he did until he finally called best friend to snap so he was able to ruin the friendship then changed his entire personality just to get the girl?
Still Snape who asked Voldemort to kill James and Harry so he could have Lily and only went to Dumbledore because Voldy went back on their deal and killed her too. Not out of any remorse for his crimes as a Death Eater. A character who bullied a kid because the kid's dad bullied him and the kid's mam wouldn't go out with him isn't sympathetic. Just pathetic.
@@Xehanort10 first of all you have a point but second of all you've misunderstood the timeline. You seem to have it that Snape didn't go to Dumbledore until after Voldemort killed Lily he went to Dumbledore way before that to protect Lily and keep her safe and he had there's nothing wrong with that. Yes some people may think it's unfair that he wanted Dumbledore to only protect Lily and not protect James and Harry, but Snape is fully within his rights to not give a s*** about James and did not specifically asked for him to be protected as well. Just because of Lily cares about James doesn't mean Snape have any obligation to do so. And it's not like he refused to let Dumbledore protect the whole family as soon as Dumbledore pointed that out he did agree to have the whole family protected he just hadn't thought of it at first cuz he was focusing on Lily cuz that's the person he actually cares about he doesn't care about James and he doesn't know Harry. and he went out of concern for Lily safety immediately not because Dumbledore not because Voldemort broke his word cuz he didn't know Voldemort was planning to break his word at that point in fact Voldemort didn't technically break his word he did make the offer. I also never said that snake with a sympathetic character just that he was less of a creep than James because when Lily rejected him he agreed to that and left her alone. Where is James kept pushing kept pushing kept pushing even to the point of trying to be exactly what Lily wanted and basically faking a personality just to get with her name never did any of that. Everybody acts like James is a hero and Snape is a villain simply because James decided with the order of the Phoenix at one point and Snape sided with the death eaters at one point. But of course Snape was going to fall in with the death eaters think about it for a second there probably the only friends he have he went to school with some of these kids, his only friend before school with Lily and they didn't end up in the same house so of course Nick would try to get in with the kids in his grade to try and hang out with them when Lily won't and then after Lily rejected him why wouldn't he join them completely. They're not just death eaters they were his classmates and Friends. And not only that they probably matched his views cuz yes they probably is auntie muggle and he probably has a good reason to be. He doesn't really have the best experience with his father or even with Lily considering that Lily rejected him for the fact that he was using hanging out with people who used dark magic but then also with perfectly willing to date James even though James was actively using dark magic on other students. Cuz oh yeah in case you forgot about that James and did actually use dark magic on other students and Snape didn't he only got in trouble by association. You talk about his crimes of a death eater, but we don't actually have proof of any crimes he actually committed. Not every death eater is sent out on every mission and keep in mind that voldemort's destruction happened maybe 3 years after he got out of school it's entirely possible he didn't kill anyone and we have no idea what kind of activity if he actually did other than one thing and that's telling Voldemort the prophecy. Yes Snape is a sad and pathetic man and yes he's taking his life frustrations out on children which is not cool and should not be a thing however if we're going to call a character out for bad behavior we might as well make sure the bad behavior were calling them out for is stuff they actually did and while Snape is a fat man a pathetic man and a terrible teacher and should not be around children calling him an obsessive creep is not accurate he is not a creep and he's not obsessive. People always talk about him like he left it after Lily and didn't give I didn't have any genuine caring about her or that if Harry was a girl who looked like Lily instead of a boy who look like James Snape would be a predator towards her or that Snape only wanted to keep it safe so he could use her as his personal sex slave or all kinds of things like that and those are all completely baseless accusations. they act like the mere fact that his feelings didn't go away the moment Lily rejected him means he's a bad person and a predator and ignore the fact that he took her rejection to heart and left her alone for the rest of her life. He never bothered her again after that she told him to leave her alone and he did that the only time he interfered with her life at all was trying to keep her safe because he didn't want Voldemort to kill her and that's perfectly understandable since he does still care about her even if he is respecting her and leaving her alone as she requested. Call Smith a bitter man all you want call him a terrible teacher or a child abuse are all you'd like but do not call him an incel or a creep because he has neither of those things.
The video raises some very good points! Though I did wince a little at the comparison of Lily & Snape's relationship to that between a KKK member & a black woman. It felt a little in poor taste & I would really like to know what sort of analogy you were going for here! Came for LB content, stayed for all of it! Love your channel 💜
Ahh, the KKK and Black woman analogy was a comparison to Snape essentially being electively involved with the Death Eaters, where their whole objective is to cause terror and specifically target muggle borns and muggles in general as they viewed them as lesser beings (akin to racism, like the KKK). So the idea that Snape was "in love" with a muggle born, but still believed in this ideaology is like a KKK member being "in love" with a black woman, despite persecuting them, and inherently viewing them as lesser.
@@SmartyPantsYT To be honest, while Snape is a shitty person, it is strongly implied that his love for Lily isn't the only reason why he's doing it all for the good side. It started off that way, but -- as evidenced by him rebuking Phineas Nigellus over the use of "Mudblood" -- he has also abandoned the ideology.
Snape didn’t join the Death Eaters because he believed in their ideology, it was because the people on Dumbledore’s side (mainly the Marauders) and other light side members rejected him because he chose to practice Dark Magic, which the light side ironically had no problem using themselves, the Death Eaters not only accepted him but treated him like a friend and showed him respect and appreciation for his skills.
I feel like romance in the books was another one of J.K's signature "it would be cool if..." moments. Most problems stem from J.K implementing something because in the confines of the individual book it would be cool but then forgets she needs to expand on it, another example is time travel. I think someone needs to rewrite harry potter with an idea of the plot as the idea of harry potter is good the execution is just kinda bad.
Dunno about the Ginny/Harry relationship. To me, she's always felt like a satellite character: present when the plot or Harry's character development needs it, conveniently backing out when she'd overshadow the main trio. Sure, it works a little better than the other romantic subplots, but it's still not convincing.
The most reasonable explanation of Harry x Ginny I've seen is that Ginny's family on her mom's side has a secret long-lasting love potion, and Ginny got the recipe right before book 6.
Or, less cynically, that Harry and Ginny are very compatible in terms of humour, interests, personality, morality, experiences, and they gradually grew together over the course of Harry's fifth and sixth year... which is actually what happened.
@@stefan4159 Or more realistically, JKR wanted a wife for her main hero and had already decided that Hermione, Luna, Cho and Fleur are out. Ginny is the only realistic option when those others are not viable.
But that's also the whole reason he didn't want to be with Tonks in the first place. He knew that his lycanthropy could possibly affect his children, so he didn't want to pursue a relationship or have children. He knew his life was too unstable and that his condition(Rowling made being a werewolf a clear allegory to AIDS) could make life for his loved ones hell. But instead he's guilt tripped into a relationship and probably wasn't expecting to try having kids with Tonks, having sudden panic that he's ruined everything that was good for him probably kicked in and he chose to avoid it rather than talk to her immediately
@@redscorner4324 Well, he's an adult. And as far as I know, Tonks didn't rape him, so what could be unexpected? Lupin didn't know where the babies come from? Also: this relationship went from rejecting to marriage in... one month? It took them 12 x less time than avoiding. They had plenty of time to talk about such basics.
EXACTLY! Lupin gets way too much leeway. And to anyone who victimizes him saying he didn't want this relationship, why didn't he just get out of it 'before' he got her pregnant?
Book Romione is actually well developed and slow-burn, in my opinion. They start as them “disliking each other” to slowly caring and then become Friends and then Friends that sometimes are jealous and share romantic moments and then lovers. In Chamber of Secret book, Ron found the Courage to go to the forest and face the spiders only after he looked at Hermione’s empty chair, or when he was worried about her health in the third book or when Hermione distracted him from Slytherin’s insult by kissing his cheek. The movie Version of them was okay but lack of some moments of friendships that were in the books and some romantic scenes were changed.
@@NidaAman-dk1nu Not in the books, there were many scenes of them acting like friends and in the Movies they put all their fights + added more of them but not to the point of “toxic” believe me as I was in one
@@crackshipsarelife Ron and Hermione were FAR more toxic in the books that in the movies. Believe me, I've read the books about 6 times over, and their rivalry far exceeds their small moments of 'friendship'. The movies show a very watered down version of their fights. I don't understand how you say that they were more friendly in the books when they had a huge fight every book after the chamber of secrets
I remember reading the last book and being extremely weirded out at Ron and Hermione being together in the end. Even 13 year old me was able to realize their relationship was written horribly
As soon as jk had to deal with more complicated adult themes like love, politics, and classism, her writing took a dive. Snape alone is a terrible depiction of unrequited love.
Do you think that the folowing posible ships could potentialy work? Here is my list: - Harry + Hermione - Ron + Luna - Draco + Ginnie Also it would have been even better if some characters were in different houses, like for example: - Harry Potter = Slytheryn - Hermione Gringe = Ravenclaw - Ron Weasley = Hufflepuff - Ginnie Weasley = Slytheryn And if Harry's cousin could also be put in Hogwards, specificaly in Griffindor, then you could have the iconic four friends group, who even thou are in different houses are very close nontheless.
I don't ship Harry/Hermione and Ron is a bully to Luna. But I do admittedly ship Draco/Ginny cuz it gives me silly Lucius and Arthur post canon shenanigans and I do like their fights lol
It feels like she had no plans for any romance and then 4 books in an editor was like “don’t teenagers date?” And she was like “shit, they do” and had to throw some shit in there. 😂
You already dunked on it plenty, but the whole relationship with Tonks bothered me alot because shes framed as a cool, fiery queer person, like shes LITERALLY a shapeshifter, huge nonbinary vibes. And then her ultimate fate is to just end up in a mid straight romance with someone who had to be coerced into dating her and then she just becomes house-wife #3791749 like it's personally insulting to me that this character "just had to meet yhe right guy" so that JK Terfling can erase her queer identity and vibes
aromantic approved lmao I've been into hp fanfic for over a decade and there's genuinely not a single canon pairing I like to or ever have liked to read. It's alomst impressive how badly she messed up on the romances
Well done. Agreed. The problem you identified of JK telling us one thing she wants us to accept while showing us events and details that do not support the narrative she insists we believe actually goes far beyond writing bad romance. I noticed this serious author issue over 10 years ago while reading the books in college. She has us witness a scene with clear implications morally, psychologically ethically and otherwise, but finds a way to use emotion/aesthetic/atmosphere to TELL us how we are meant to react to it, even if that reaction compromises our own judgement. Essentially forcing us to believe her word as the author not our own reading of her narrative. Dumbledore is a fantastic example. He proves himself dangerous, amoral, and untrustworthy as a caretaker of children from book 1. It only gets worse as the series progresses. But, she uses “do you trust Dumbledore?” And “Dumbledore trusts them” as short-hand to tell us which people are good guys in the book. Rather than letting us observe the behavior of characters to assess ourselves if they are morally admirable. I find this reprehensible since people are treated as literally evil for doubting the word of this incredibly deceptive manipulative secretive character. The books sort of socially pressure the reader to cheer for characters and outcomes that are suspect. Because you are a bad person if you question it. Interestingly that was the response I got when talking to friends about it. “But I LIKE Dumbledore!” “But I LIKE Ron” “But I relate to Hermione!” As if any of these sentiments determine whether those characters have done something wrong or right. Rowling mastered this, and trained a generation to overlook facts and events in leu of choosing to side with those who have the most skillful manipulative emotional framing. I don’t think she intended this. But that’s the problem with Rowling. She is a faulty narrator…and does not intend to be.
But any fan who can do basic critical thinking knows things aren't morally black or grey. Almost every HP character save for the true villains IS somewhat grey. Albus is grey. Snape is grey. Sirius is grey. Remus is grey. Harry, Ron and Hermione have flaws. They're not perfect people and that's only not obvious to fans who don't pay attention. But everyone I named above is better than Voldemort or Bellatrix or Umbridge. There's a huge difference.
Another thing I noticed in her writing is something that I like to call "no bad actions, only bad factions". Morality in the books is solely based on his relation with Harry. And the "good guys" lack any accountability for their actions as they are always justified. Let's take book 2 as an example. Harry and Ron drug Crabbe and Goyle, steal their clothes and lock them up to infiltrate the private space of Malfoy. But hey, that's okay because they were bad guys. It doesn't matter that they haven't ever done something bad in this book apart from standing behind Malfoy when he said something mean. It also doesn't matter that their hunch that Malfoy was behind the incidents turned out to be wrong. Is there an apology? A punishment? Anything? No, nothing at all. The narrative never shows any kind of criticism regarding the protagonists' actions.
@Dhorannis Oh yeah this is a huge problem. My friend and I actually have a different name for it. Basically it's how the book constantly allows "Gryff in red" to get away with problematic shit while "Slyth in green" are always considered in the wrong. I like to use the example of when Montague tried to dock points from Gryff so Fred and George pushed him into the broken vanishing cabinet. Montague almost died, the twins face no punishment, but JKR deems it OK because "Gryff in red" get away with everything while "Slyth in green" clearly in the wrong cuz bad 😒
@@l.n.3372 No. Actual well written series have grey characters. Harry Potter's morality is black and white "you're either perfectly good or irredeemably evil."
Growing up I realised i would have left Hogwarts after the battle and never would have looked back ... I wish at least one of the main characters thought "nope, too much trauma, I'm out if here and start somewhere new!" And then they meet someone to fall in love with. Someone who's not attached to Hogwarts, who has their own story and experiences. I've just never been a fan of this microcosmos they all seem to live in, seeing the same faces again and again Ron and Hermione never worked for me and their romance came out of nowhere with 0 chemistry... I would have loved for Hermione to move on and find happiness somewhere else with someone else.
The _truly_ weird thing is that everyone ends up in long term relationships with people who were in their year at school. How many people do you know like that?
It’s because they are wizards. Wizards work different jobs, live different lives and I think Hogwarts is the only wizarding school the UK.
Hogwarts is a perfect place for them to find life-long friends, because it’s a boarding school and not just any boarding school. in your usual public school you would come to a very plain building in the morning, listen during lessons, joke around a little during lunch and leave, whereas in hogwarts they live together, attend MAGIC lessons, have a litteral huge and mysterious castle as well as the outside to hang out, a choir, quiddich games, big events and old traditions.
And back then there wasn’t such a big hook up culture. Even my parents and all their friends who are married now met in university.
Makes you think. Do people get divorced? Is it unthinkable for Ron and Hermione to split up , because after the dust settles, and they try to live together, they have to realize they are not a good fit.
However, they are living with each other.
What do you expect-them to argue about their career paths and how they never do anything fun together anymore? They were in a war, bro.
Besides, going through traumatic experiences with someone else would likely make you more dedicated to them than to some random boyfriend/girlfriend you met at your high school.
I can think of two examples. So it may be rare, but it does happen.
The only good romance is Bill and Fleur but we never actually see a lot of them
yeah they were soo good yet jkr clearly hated fleur, it seems like she only wrote her to have a physically flawless female character to shit on
@@olivia-sv3wq JK hates "girly" girls. She is very narrow of what she considers good femininity.
@@olivia-sv3wqat least Fleur got to drag that shrew Molly at the end
They were up until they were married. The whole mess at Shell Cottage completely ruins Fleur's character. She goes from being this very fiery, opinionated person to just this gal in an apron who meekly obeys Bill's every command. Honestly, the part where she's clearing the table and Bill tells her not to enter the kitchen and so she silently backs away and closes the door feels borderline sinister to me, like how did he crush your spirit girl?
Did they really though? One minute Fleur goes to work at Gringotts at the end of GOF, the next they're engaged in Half Blood Prince and married in Deathly Hallows.
People say female authors portray emotions in more subtle and nuanced ways. Well, Rowling is about as subtle and nuanced as a sledgehammer to the face.
Men writing women tho💀
@@aishitemasuuI like Annabeth, and she was written by Rick Riordan. But that is just my opinion, you have a right to have yours
@fecouti1412 I forgot about her. She's cool. But mostly I was talking about people like Stephen King. Poor Beverly.
think you mean a teaspoon ;)
@@rhonwenbaker2448no they mean a sledgehammer, that's a pretty hard typo to make
Their parenting skills may suck but Vernon and petunia are actually one of the best couples in the series. Vernon has to deal with all the magical BS From Petunia's side of the family, yet his loyalty to her never wavers.
The wizards consistently treat the Dursleys in an arrogant and harmful manner, from taking for granted that they will look after Harry, to lecturing Vernon & Petunia on their treatment of Harry. This is the same high-handedness as is shown to the Goblins & House-Elves; if Umbridge is an extreme example of this, Aunt Marge mirrors her attitude. Molly Weasley shows hints of the same wizardous contempt for non-Wizards. Molly, and Marge, are both pet-forms of the name Margaret; these choices of name seems unlikely to be accidental.
Yeah, Vernon never judges Petunia for having a witch for a sister despite being one of the most judgemental mfs to ever live.
Yeah, he thinks its weird but he also considers it her ONLY flaw
@@JamesMC04 I mean, the Dursleys WERE abusive to Harry. I don't know if Dumbledore would have forced them to take Harry in if they didn't want to raise him, but from their behavior in Book 2, they seem to feel as if they have options. And even if they were forced, baby Harry didn't hold them at wandpoint and coerce them, so abusing him is still messed up.
@@JamesMC04 Molly is a nickname form of Mary, not Margaret.
I always read Harry marrying Ginny as simply wanting to be a part of the Weasley family which to me is slightly problematic..
Harry fell in love with Ginny due to her vibrant personality. Officially entering the Weasley family was simply an added bonus.
i'm sure he knew he was still a part of it and they all saw it that way too. i guess they're a fine couple if you ignore the lowkey oedipus thing
slightly? Quid & the Weasleys are the only things they have in common, and _obviously_ Harry couldn't get on with Ron, oh no, no, no, and the only way to ensure a canonical post-series bond between the three main characters so they wouldn't conceivably grow apart were to have them marry into the W family. Sure, Harry & Ginny has _nothing_ to do with Harry's series-long longing to be part of a loving family. They're super compatible.
That was never actually Harry’s motive, the books show how he fell for Ginny because of how vivacious and witty she was
@@violetlavi2207 yeah, jkr was just not good at writing teen romance lol
Does anyone ever think about how Cho was so severely derailed in OOTP to the point of it being hilariously transparent that the author REALLY don't want actual idea of Harry ending up with anyone except Ginny
Cho was done dirty, honestly. I always sympathised with her even though the writing was trying to portray her as unreasonable.
@@Niobesnuppasame honestly, she needed some therapy fr
I think it was less that she wanted him to with Ginny and instead really didn't want him to be in a relationship because she doesn't know how to write one beyond the surface.
Cause there's absolutely no hinting that he feel anything towards Ginny until half blood, and when they get together it's so late that JK doesn't even need to write the relationship anymore.
The movie actually had to correct the course by adding a lot more romantic scenes between them.
To the point where I think it forgets that Ginny has a boyfriend for a good chunk of that story.
Cho wasn't "derailed", unless you think that Harry and Ginny should have been love at first sight and not date anyone else. Which I would have loved, but let's face, not exactly realistic, is it?
@@stefan4159 Derailed, as in, Cho suddenly gained lots of negative moments that seems to try to tell you "hey Cho isn't actually perfect and maybe Harry wasn't meant to be with her" but because the previous book tries to play around Harry/Cho and makes it look like the only reason why they haven't dated is just that Cho is already with Cedric, it just looks like Cho was just suddenly made bad just for the sake of Harry not ending up with anyone except Ginny, who instead gets some one-upping moment from Cho (like how Cho's name idea for the group is rejected while Ginny is accepted, and Harry tells Cho off that Ginny is the example that DA member with Ministry family can keep their mouth shut about DA)
The worse thing about Lily and James is how JK tried to parallel their story to Voldemort's parents. Voldemort is supposed to be born without love, his parents didn't love eachother, his mother died and his father didn't love him. That's the difference in their upbringing and why Voldemort is a reflection of a Harry without love but James and Lily's relationship is so poorly written that you don't understand why that point was even made in the first place. Also, I personally always been weirded out by Tonks and Lupin's relationship, first of all because of the age difference, she's barely in her twenties, and that after they got together Tonks seemed so dulled. Tonks was this character that was so colourful and full of life, I understand that it could be because of the war but she had been an Auror for years at that point, it made me feel like she had lost her spark, truly depressing.
Let's do a fun little experiment and see what the relationship would look like if we genderflipped tonx and lupin
@@lahlybird895 it would still be weird ~
@@carmirhodes6851 indeed it does the question is if it becomes even more so
I think Sheep in Box pointed out something about how Tonks’ taming reflected Rowling’s experience with motherhood. It was along the lines of how Rowling found great joy and fulfillment in being a mother and so projected that onto her characters. And because of her current rocky (for lack of better words) relationship with the queer community, some parts of the queer community retroactively view Tonks as the personification of the belief that “queerness is just a phase.”
@@J-manli well that actually make sense of the weird character to use for the metaphor when there's much more prominent mothers in the series
A funny headcannon I saw is that after Hogwarts Neville and Harry have a sort of competition of “praising” Snape. Yknow get drunk and be like “Oh Snape, such a good man!” In a sarcastic way. They go above and beyond to one up each other. Outside, people are kinda confused, but the people in their friend group either roll their eyes or are laughing their butts off. Then, Harry named his son after Snape and sends a letter to Neville like “Your move.”
at that point the only way to top it is for Neville to change his last name to Snape and have his whole bloodline named after him
Okay someone write this fic. This is too good and so funny lol. XD
I wish I can write it but I can’t write humor at all.
Oh that’s so funny omg, I kinda love it
Harry! Check out my new Snape tattoo!
*Pulls down pants*
The real reason Harry named his son after snake!! Needed to win the bet
I can’t believe you didn’t mention Fred and Angelina crushing on each other and going to the Yule Ball together and then when he gets killed in the war, her and George get together 😭 that was crazy work. I know they weren’t a major romance but I’ve always been baffled by this one
WTF that’s insane
Yeah, like Angelina just sees him as a replacement for his brother when they aren't the same.
@@mish375 I mean do you know that is what happened? Maybe she liked George as his own person really.
@@Jdudec367 It's hard to explain but it's that idea that some people see twins are extensions of the same person. In reality, they are two different people. So it just came across as Rowling trading one for another.
@@mish375 I know...but I dunno if Angelina really saw it as that or not.
To be fair, when Ron left, he kind of just walked out of the tent and got kidnapped. It's not like he purposefully stayed away for weeks. He literally couldn't find them. And the first thing he does after coming back is save Harry's life. And the only reason he left was because of the locket. So I am able to believe that Hermione can forgive him for leaving.
Not to mention that just because she doesn’t usually forgive doesn’t mean she’s incapable of forgiving, especially considering Ron’s one of her best friends. She’s capable of growth or change, people aren’t just flat.
Yeah but what if Hermione is a bitch like always and just can't see that. Would be pretty realistic in my opinion
Personally I didn’t like the way the romances in general were written in the books … Everyone says how Harry and Ginny are “so good” compared to the movies but book Harry/Ginny is pretty bad to me.. like Harry barely acknowledges Ginny in 5 books and then in book 6 he suddenly has this deep passion, jealousy and love for her out of nowhere… and suddenly she becomes the most important person to Harry, he is only thinking about her “Ginny is fighting/ is in danger ooh no” what about the other Weasley’s or other friends?? Why is he only worrying about her and doesn’t mention the others?
Not to mention that the moment Ginny became Harry’s love interest she is suddenly this cool popular girl that every guy thinks is pretty… like Hermione never got that treatment only in the yule ball where she spent hours getting ready and was so different from her usual self she was almost unrecognisable
> Harry barely acknowledges Ginny in 5 books and then in book 6 he suddenly has this deep passion, jealousy and love for her out of nowhere… and suddenly she becomes the most important person to Harry
Fake news. It was a gradual process, and you see a lot of development in book 5 especially. They become good friends, and Harry notices her a lot more because she finally shows her real personality to the fullest extent to him.
> like Hermione never got that treatment only in the yule ball
Wrong. Hermione had cross-house friendships, was invited to the Slug Club, and was pretty enough to be asked out by Cormac McLaggen. And by the way what's the point of comparing Ginny to Hermione seeing that they were never in competition for Harry's love?
@@stefan4159 Well to me Harry’s romantic interest towards her was a bit too sudden… yes she was more involved in the plot of book 5 but same as a lot of other students in dumbledores army.. she was just one of the gang (never even had an individual scene with Harry after chamber of secrets) and Harry’s love interest was still Cho Chang at that point.. I’m not saying I don’t like the concept of them together, the one scene I actually did like of them was the conversation they had at the end of book 6. I just don’t like the way it was executed/written in the books… same with any of the romantic relationships in the harry potter books.. (just my opinion)
On the second one what I’m trying to say is that because Ginny becomes Harry’s love interest, attention is given to her looks in book 6 (slytherin’s mention her at the train for example) and we are told that she is popular with a lot of GUYS..
And I am comparing that with Hermione who is not meant to be Harry’s love interest, you say she is also popular but not in the same way that Cho Chang or Ginny in book 6 was
She was never described to be very pretty (her teeth and hair are described as negative), attention is given to her looks only after a lot of preparation/ when she had a makeover for the ball, she did have 3 guys show interest in her but we are never told she is popular among many guys.. if she was a love interest that would not be the case I feel like…
@@stefan4159 No, Ginny's character was just badly handled. Rowling was lazy, she wrote only ONE major female character for most of the series. She waited too long to bring Ginny back into the plot and introduce Luna and Tonks.
If she'd maintained Ginny as a major character after Book 2 and introduced Luna in Book 3 and maybe Tonks in Book 4, it would be a different thing. A better thing.
They are better in the books, but that's basically saying nothing given how awful their romance in the movie was. Not really hard to be better than that.
Yep exactly. I'm always so confused when people say the book handled the romance better because I honestly thought Harry's feelings in book six were forced and sudden. And yeah, the movies were even worse. As a kid I didn't really mind because I wasn't even focusing on the romance but reading it as an adult just showed how much of the romance it lacked. Especially compared to Peeta and Katniss in Hunger games and the relationships in the Shadowhunters series.
If only the romances in Harry Potter were like Percy and Annabeth, or Katniss and Peeta. As much as I love Harry Potter, the romance is just bad.
Some people complained about Katniss and Peeta but it actually made sense. The two were so traumatized from the Games and the War that they could only understand each other and each other's viewpoints.
Percy jackson will forever be in my opinion objectively better than HP in nearly every way
@@Raine.in.love.well secondary main character development clearly is more superior in HP tho,same as magic system
I mean Percabeth just puts all HP relationships to shame
I never liked Katniss and Peeta personally, but then I'm against pretty much any relationship that seems to be distracting from the main plot. I can agree that their writing made a lot more sense, though.
One of the most frustrating parts of the books in my opinion was that JK just couldn't pick a lane when it came to the mauraders and Lily. Either commit to making them bad people that Harry has to reconcile and move past, or actually show how they changed for the better. Either way it would have been really interesting. But instead it comes across as JK starting off writing her typical fantasy parents with their fairy tale romance and tragic deaths. But half way through decided that Snape was her favorite character and since Snape hated James and the audience didn't, she just shoehorned in that one memory of the mauraders being just - the worst. Because (unless I'm remembering wrong) James only get's four "on screen" moments. 1. Him protecting Lily and Harry from Voldemort 2. Him coming out of Voldemort's wand in the graveyard to buy Harry time to escape 3. Him appearing from the reserection stone to comfort Harry as he's about to die 4. Him bullying/sexually harrassing/assaulting Snape. One of these instances is wildly different from the others. Combined with the fact that Snape is the only one who ever has anything bad to say about James and this whole plot thread of James being kind of a bastard feels really weird and disjointed.
Given her past bitching about fandom enjoying Draco too much, this absolutely tracks
To be fair, in the third book, we learn that Sirius tried to get Snape mauled to death by a werewolf as a joke, so that scene wasn't exactly out of character for the Marauders. And plenty of people in the real world are nice to those they consider friends and nasty to those they consider enemies. But I absolutely think Snape's redemption/sympathetic portrayal could have been done better.
@@Nemo12417 It was done better in the movies, 'cause in the books he really did feel irredeemable, in my opinion. They removed a lot of his worst moments and traits when adapting the movies.
I feel like the change is 100% owed to Alan Rickman being like “why is this character a cartoon villain? This sucks.” And then doing his dang thing and giving Snape a Colonel Brandon spin. Didn’t JK admit he played a large part in the character arc building?
RIP - total legend and heart throb for unrequited love story folks.
Reserection stone, lol
my problem with hinny is that they’re basically james and lily 2.0. harry looks like his dad and ended up getting with a redhead. imo it’s weird. the dynamic is weird.
All redheads do not look the same. Or are we now supposed to assert that Harry/Luna would be creepy because Luna looks like Aunt Petunia just because both are blonde?
@@stefan4159 that’s not what i’m saying, i’m saying the parallels between harry and ginny and james and lily give me weird vibes. imo it’s weird.
@bendyglove
I agree that Harry/Ginny sucked but in all fairness, Lily is built up as this perfect Mary Sue whom everyone loved, and she doesn't do much to earn that reputation.
Hermione is a smart Muggle born like Lily but she earns her praise.
Ginny is a half assed character yes, but even she does more than background Lily. Both are pretty and popular but Ginny was also a Quidditch player while Lily hated the sport.
Hermione and Ginny both share traits of Lily but can personify traits better than Lily did.
Meanwhile James is NOT Harry. It's very clear that Harry is a better man than James.
Not to mention the sibling incest
Ron & Hermione are actually James/Lily mk2
I think J. K. Rolling rushed all those romances and didn't think any of them though.
JK made the pairings in her head but she didn’t know how to flesh them out on paper…
The only one that he mentioned that was indeed rushed _on page_ was Remus/Tonks. James/Lily was merely a background plot, Snape's feelings for Lily make sense, Ron/Hermione was hinted at from book 3 (at the latest) onwards, and Harry/Ginny was hinted at since book 2, and very strongly hinted at in book 5.
@@stefan4159 What about the execution? The thing, TH-camr focused on?
Of course, because they weren't romances, they're just pairings and not important to the story. It's just a literary device and people are taking it too seriously, probably because they read the books later in life and were expecting something different.
In all honesty, I never really paid much attention to the romance to begin with honestly. But Harry Potter’s romantic subplots looked really bad from what you said, and I guess that shows why you really need to plan out a healthy romantic subplot between two characters.
This video actually help give me insights on some of the romantic subplots in my writing and change it up, and now it’s looking a lot better. So thank you, Smarty
" I guess that shows why you really need to plan out a healthy romantic subplot between two characters. "
I don't think that a story always needs "healthy" relationships to make it a good story. It depends on which outcome you want to have with it. You also can play with toxic relationships in your stories. It gives another layer to your characters. For example:
A guy who is always lovely and cheerful to his friends and strangers and is very popular, but a dick to his girlfriend/boyfriend or his family. It gives you material to work with your character. Maybe he goes see a therapist, because he has some serious mental issues, or his dickhead moves are revealed to his friends, so that they abandon him and he becomes a villain. He may overcomes his flaws and gets a better person. It also has an effect on the other characters. Maybe his girlfriend/boyfriend does something to him or whatever.
But yeah, the romance in the books wasn't good most of the time. They were side plots for character development but rather subtle. Harry got some experience, which is normal at this age, but it wasn't the main goal to achive a relationship. The main plot was fantasy/adventure based.
I will always recommend the original Percy Jackson series for a good example of romance in a children’s series. Hell, good romance in fiction in general.
But in HOO Leo x Calypso (Caleo) was the worst
@@mittag983Why? I never was that invested in it, but i thought it was ok, sometimes even a bit cute, so i'm interested in hearing why so many people don't like it.
@@mittag983it got better in Trials but yeah it wasn't that good in HoO.
@@mittag983 Yeah....
RAHH FRFR
I actually had the exact same experiance. When I read the books as a kid/teenager I didn't care or mind the romances. But recently a reread the books as an adult closing to 30, and god... They all were kinda unpleasant at best (Harry & Ginny) or downright worrying at worst (Ron & Hermione). I honestly felt anxious reading all these toxic and abusive scenes portrayed as romantic.
Book 6 was so much better for Harry and gunny tho
How was Harry/Ginny "unpleasant" in the books? I can understand if you're talking about the movies, but in the books they are very well portrayed.
@@stefan4159 Well I am mostly neutral about them. In the movies, yeah its a typical checkbox style plotline Yates needed to do. In the books there is more depth of course, but to me the whole thing still feels like there is very little substance behind it.
1. The biggest issue for me is how distant they are, in a sense that Ginny almost always comes in more like as an afterthought rather than an integral part of Harry's life (or an integral part of the story). Like if you try to paint a picture of Harry's inner world then I would be very surprised if Ginny would take a major role in it. Harry's thoughts are basicly like: 1. Voldermort, 2. Ron & Hermione, 3. His dead parents, 4. Hogwarts and magic, 5. Dubledore ... and the list goes on and Ginny is probably somewhere around quidditch and exams. Sure Ginny is there, but to what extent? Barely episodically...
2. Its kind of a personal preference, but the best romances are centered around companionship rather than sexual tension, which requires deep understanding and great empathy between the characters. To me its just not there in this case. There are very few convos between them that are actually have some depth or substance to it (like the funeral of Dumbledore). Its mostly just Harry internally realizing that Ginny is much cooler and hotter than he thought... and jealousy...
3. I don't really have that much problem with jealousy itself, but the way it's presented in the books is very cringe. Ginny dating Dean, while liking Harry, Harry's stomach (if I remember correctly?) monster... okay just no more examples...
Overally to me it's just a thing that is there. It's not really relevant or important, you could just cut out Ginny completely from the story and it would be essentially the same. It is always in the background and its fine to be there, but there is not much value to it and its occasionally unpleasant and cringe.
@@csabas.6342 It's a bit simplistic to say that Harry and Ginny are distant, because that really only takes into account their dynamic in the first four books. And even in those four books, Ginny is an integral part of Harry's life -- or at least, as integral as characters like Fred and George are. Even in those books, Harry continually notices Ginny's feelings, Ginny's actions etc. and goes out of his way to communicate with her, even when she has her extreme shyness around him. And she absolutely starts to take a major role in Harry's life starting in book 5, when he notices her much more than he did previously and they become good friends.
Which leads me to your second point... because there is _plenty_ of companionship, understanding and empathy between Harry and Ginny. That's one of the reasons why I am so drawn to this pairing in the first place. And it's not just at Dumbledore's funeral too: there are plenty of other major moments like this, like when they talk about possession, or the library scene, or Harry's 17th birthday. And peppered throughout this are all the little moments, like when Ginny is the only one able to get Harry away from Dumbledore's body, or when she takes his hand while they are worrying about everyone escorting the fake Harry's from Privet Drive, or when she is able to read his mind when he's worrying about being banned from Quidditch by Umbridge. They obviously find each other very attractive, but that's a good thing. The extreme sexual tension thing.... that's more of a Ron/Hermione thing if anything. The extreme jealousy as well: as exemplified by Hermione launching birds at Ron because of Lavender.
And so compared to the Yule Ball drama, the Lavender drama, etc., the jealousy that manifests between Harry and Ginny is much more normal and toned down. I don't think the monster was cringe, personally I don't give a shit about it. but I can understand how some would consider it to be. As for Ginny dating two other persons before Harry that was about her trying to move on from Harry or at least put her feelings on hold.
I really could not disagree with you more on the last point, both in principle and in practice. The reason why the books are so popular isn't because of "Good guy defeats bad guy" it’s because of the vast array of prominent and not-so-prominent relatable characters that are in the books! Every character plays a valuable role in the tapestry of the HP series, from more primary characters like Harry, Ron, Hermione, Snape, to secondary characters like Ginny, Luna, to the very minor characters like Lockhart, Justin, and Mrs. Figg. Thinking "let's go and cut out Flitwick" is missing the point. Additionally, in Ginny's case, the story would clearly not be the same, starting from Chamber of Secrets onwards.
@@stefan4159 Well I guess there is more merrit in this pairing than I gave credit to it, but to me is still mostly just a completly neutral thing in the background. I still hold my opinion that Ginny's role in the story and Harry's life is very miniscule. Just compare the importance of Hermione and Ron to Harry with Ginny's importance. His 2 friends are basicly almost every page in some form or another and we are constantly reminded how much they mean to Harry, while there is some Ginny thing in every couple hundred pages. She gets the most spotlight in book 6, but if someone would count how many dialogue she has there, I don't think it would lead to very favourable results. She is basically dwarfed by the Dumbledore, the Half Blood Prince, Draco and even the awful drama between Ron and Hermione. If I remember correctly Harry spends more time contemplating about his Slughorn task than thinking about Ginny (but maybe I am wrong in this one).
I also still think that she is almost irrelevant to the plot. She has her greatest contribution in Chambers, but she could be switched with a random student. Would the story be worse that way? I think yes, but the point is that her role is not crucial in that book, she is not irreplaceable. Book 3 - I dont remember if she is in there she probably has some sentences. Book 4 - Harry has his Cho thing, Ginny in mentioned here and there. Book 5 the same except she is in DA. Book 6 her most important book, she is hero's love interest - but that plot is almost completely separate from the main plots. Book 7 she is left behind and in the end she participates in the final battle with little to no importance.
I agree with you that the jealously thing is not really a big issue. It's kinda normal, especially compared to Ron and Hermione, but many times I just simply had second hand embarrassment. I am not saying that people should feel this way, its simply personal. The whole Harry gradually noticing that she has grown up and has merits is something that also not sits right with me, but it is 100% subjective.
Look their limited number of interaction are not bad really, and sometimes it's quite nice maybe even cute, it is just not feels really valuable to me, it's more like I accepted that it is there. I am not saying its an objectively horrible romance or whatever, but it is not a fully fledged out thing and Rowling could have done more with it (but looking at Ron and Hermione its probably better that she didn't).
I always forget how Lily and James romance is written, my head is full of lovely head canons and fanfic about them that I tend to forget how James ACTUALLY was in hogwarts 😭
In one memory by the person he hated and hated him
@@lightdarksoul2097 He still sexually assaulted him, dude, and his friends admitted it, so that's not something Snape just made up.
@@Niobesnuppa true though they also said Snape did similar things back the two were even
@@lightdarksoul2097 plus the context that snape and his friends were openly supportive of voldemort, wich is like being positive about a local terrorist
@@satan3862 yeah I guess America Africa etc didn't see Voldy as a issue that needed them
15:32 It's even worse in the films where after interacting with Ginny even less than in the books Harry suddenly decides he loves her after just seeing her at her bedroom window. And the Half Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows films they try to make scenes where she feeds him, ties his shoes and he zips up her dress sexy.
That was entirely random. It's like: oh so loves her now? And is no one creeped out by the fact that Ginny looks exactly like his mother? It was just weird.
@@mish375 Harry "Norman Bates" Potter.
@@Xehanort10 There's definitely a Oedipus complex going on there with Harry. Hates his father, is obsessive over his mother's memory, and then marries a girl who looks just like her. Not sure what Rowling was trying to say there.
@@mish375 How on earth does Ginny "look exactly" like Lily?
exactly the prob. I think its worse because the books didn't explain it at all. Like one day he decided to like her, it was so out of the blue but Ron and Hermione made perfect sense
I agree with you in that the romance in the series are very poorly written. And I thought that when I first read the books. Harry x Ginny and Ron x Hermione, to me, can work, but things that make me question exactly how they did end up together are the same ones you pointed out in the video:
Harry and Ginny was incredibly rushed. Ginny practically doesn’t have any importance in books 3 and 4 and she played an extremely minor role in book 5. Book 6 is when Harry is actually attracted to her (almost out of complete nowhere if you ask me), they get together for, what, 2 to 4 weeks? And then they break up at the end of the same book. Then she goes back to having almost little importance in the final book, and then they’re married. Like I said, this could have worked for me if Rowling had developed the romance sooner, like we get hints of it in book 4, Harry realizes his feelings and he and Ginny get together in book 5, they spend most of book 6 as a couple until the end, and it can be the same after that.
Ron and Hermione never really worked for me because, like you said, they fight A LOT. Some of those fights almost ended their friendship. So when they got together, it didn’t feel earned to me. So I think Rowling should have toned down on the fighting so that way we don’t question how are these two going to spend the rest of their lives together when we’ve seen they can’t go five minutes without being at each other’s throats. They can still have some arguments (couples aren’t going to agree on everything), but don’t have them doing it all the time.
Anyway, like I said, these definitely could work (and it has for some fans), but for me, it just hasn’t. And that’s just my opinion.
The worst with RonxHermione was that when they fought, they were mad at each other for months. And then they can’t get over it without Harry’s help. Truly don’t understand how they’re going to live together without couples counseling minimum
Harry and Ginny wasn't rushed. They grew much closer together in book 5, they became very good friends, and Harry ended up noticing her a lot more in that book. The seeds for Ginny being "Harry's best source of comfort" in book 6 were in fact planted in book 5, where Ginny does, indeed, provide Harry with much-needed comfort on at least two occasions. And even if you only take book 6 into account, there were plenty of hints that Harry was falling for Ginny before he saw her in the corridor (hanging out together at the Burrow, Harry's disappointment when she doesn't spend time with him in the train, him watching her during a conversation with Hermione, him smelling her in the Amortentia, him catching a waft of that smell close by, him inviting her to Hogsmeade... there are many others). So, while it could have been developed a little better, the notion that it came out of nowhere is simply not true. Most fans, at least in the book fandom, agree that Ginny was indeed the one for Harry, even if they have a few concerns about the development.
To me I felt like Harry and Ginny could work I like their chemistry. But I feel like JK only did it so Harry would be a “true” member of the Weasley family which is gross to me personally because I already felt like he was borderline adopted by them. They practically raised them so it feels unnecessary and kind of like a discrediting of found family
For Harry/Ginny to work, there needed to be some distinct changes to the series.
- I feel like Ginny could have helped Harry get a Yule Ball date in Book 4. That could have involved her in the plot earlier than Book 6, while also allowing Harry to start seeing her as more than a fan girl. I’ve read fanfics where Ginny gets Harry to go with Luna, and it was absolutely glorious. I think this could’ve been a good change.
- Another Route you could go is to involve Ginny more in Book 5. Perhaps have her try to help Harry with romancing Cho? Or maybe Ginny gets onto the Quidditch Team as Harry’s backup Seeker? Maybe have Ginny help organize D.A. Meetings? Something could be done to get Harry to notice her athletic abilities (which is the main reason he noticed Cho to begin with).
The point is that Ginny needs to be seen more by the reader in either Book 4 or Book 5. Maybe both. She needs to be seen as more of a friend to Harry first, too. This way, he can still “suddenly notice” her in Book 6 without it feeling contrived.
@@Doomzdeh you’re absolutely right it felt like their romance came out of nowhere and those changes would help a lot
Aggred
You can't change my mind, she only gave Lupin a wife so people wouldn't call him gay
Also lots of queer people saw themselves in Tonks so she had to make her a boring mom rq
@@heatherofhyrule9050 She would have been a fire genderfluid or nonbinary charakter
@@lauraalaughing671 THATS WHAT IM SAYING I was always obsessed with her in OOTP as a kid and I think it’s bc I’m bi and she was just so cool. Then she got married and became “normal”
Same with Tonks :(
It seemed forced in so many other ways, too. Tonks just seemed so extremely immature compared to Lupin. There was the age difference PLUS the fact that she always acted younger than her age/like she wanted to be down with the teens and stay a teen, while Lupin was acting like he was much older than his actual age, probably because of all the shitty things he had gone through. Like Rowling made it seem Tonks must have had daddy issues or choose Lupin just because she had a thing for werewolfs?
I rember when I was little shipping Harry and Harmonie In the movies. She was literally the only girl he spent time with and as a kid I took that as maybe they'll get together. Few movies pass then it shows more Harmonie and Ron's growing romance I was just- so confused because they really seem to dislike eachother otherwise.
Omg finally I’m not the only one that thought so even my mom pointed out but of course I ain’t a Harry Potter fan so what do I care
@@CommanderM820 I literally had no idea the books existed for so long lol now I do and STILL haven't read any yet.
@@vilee600 yeah honestly kinda cringe
Because Harry and Hermione’s relationship was very sibling-like. A great example of a platonic male-female friendship.
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 I was 7.
I hate most of the romances. But the thing that annoys me most is that when they made the 6th film. They put the romances front and centre over the Tom Riddle memories. As if that wasn't the best part of the book.
That’s what I’ve been saying for years. Like yeah the romances were a big part of it but it wasn’t 90% of the book.
The film watered down the HBP reveal as well.
Snape is a jerk. But he teaches at a school where it is somehow acceptable to send 11 year-olds to the forbidden forest as punishment for breaking curfew (Mcgonagall) and has a caretaker that actually wants to use medieval torture devices on kids. Also, Hogwarts has another teacher who fails to recognize that most of his students fall asleep and fail his class and another one who fails to see a student fainting as an emergency, and that maybe one should pause class to check if that student didn't damage his brain. So compared to that, Snape is okay. Which doesn't tell as much about his character as much as all Hogwarts staff being maniacs.
I hate to say it because I've grown to loathe Snape so much over the years, but that's a fair point. In that regard, Snape is doing what seems to be normal at Hogwarts
Okay hold up I will not stand for this sprout Flander that scene with a movie original and not in the book
Ask for your comment about the forbidden Forest I think that hagrid requested them for detention we know teachers can do that and that it's okay to break the rules if you have a teacher or staff member of a chaperone the way you can get books from the restricted section if a teacher signs promission.
I will give you filth and bins though
snape is a bad guy, but that doesnt mean that hes a *bad guy* if you get what i mean
If Hogwarts actually existed, Offsted would be a bigger threat to them than the Death Eaters.
Snape is still not okay. He threatens to kill pets, throws glass jars at Harry, and just doesn't do his job
I wasn’t into how Ginny just transformed into the Love Interest of All Time off-page. It never felt earned or interesting as it should have been for the romance of the main character of the biggest series at the time.
Rowling's idea of character development is just saying things happened offscreen rather than showing the character's growth as a person.
Exactly. It just felt that the romance came out of nowhere
The only problem I have with the Ginny and Harry romance is that Harry basically says he likes her because she's "not like other girls". Which basically just means she plays quidditch and doesn't cry when he breaks up with her 🤔
Nowhere did he ever say that he liked her because she's "not like other girls".
@@stefan4159 it's never stated outright, but it's a wider pattern in the books. Ginny's whole thing is being "not like other girls."
Cho is a girly girl with giggly friends, always crying. While Ginny is more "tough" and independent. She breaks up with Dean because he tries to help her climb through the portal hole, making her feel like a damsel in distress. She's constantly portrayed distancing herself from stereotypical "womanly" attributes.
No, Harry doesn't actually say that he likes her because she's "not like other girls," but he literally gushes about how he likes her because she's so stoic and not teary when he breaks up with her.
I was shocked at my own memories when I re-read the books and noticed that Cho Chang gets maybe 4 pages in the book. I thought she was a way bigger subplot than that.
I swear 80% of her scenes are just about harry thinking she is pretty and thinking about how much she cries
I cant believe she actually named an asian character that. but rowlings racism is not a new thing.
Tonks, the more I think about it, was a pretty atrocious character assassination because in Book 5, she's this cool punky attitude-laden newcomer to the squad, and then she falls and love and becomes so pathetic she can't even use her super-rare congenital mutant power anymore until she gets to be his little wife who literally follows him to the grave. Almost gives me pre-TERF vibes just based on how I read it. Like, any woman who falls in love and marries will inherently give up her ambiguity and spunk for the man, changing everything about her own identity right down to her patronus, to match his.
To be fair, unlike Lupin, Tonks is an auror. It´s literally her job to fight against dark wizards. Why should she stay at home and let her husband fight when that´s what she is trained to do? And storywise, their marriage is simply there to go against the ideals of blood purity (Tonks has a pureblood mother and Lupin is a werewolf. And in the 7th book it is said that blood purity also affects the way how other magical folks like Lupin are treated, and Lupin even explains how their marriage is frowned upon by the majority of the wizarding world, including Tonks´ own family.) and their son parallels Harry. And many other characters like Snape also change because of love. And because neither Tonks or Lupin are staying at Hogwarts, overall there´s not much attention that can be put into that relationship so we don´t know all the details, we know basically nothing about their private lives. And in the 6th book her changed behaviour is more like a red-herring that mostly just distracts from the real mystery of that book. That´s why the truth about her is explained only at the end of the novel when the main plot is already over.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with my college English professor.
@@foxial5358 I agree, their relationship doesn't serve their characters but was clearly just for plot and thematic purposes
@@mgp1203 Yup, considering how Tonks was so carefree in the 5th book, it makes her drastically changed behaviour so much more alarming for the reader in the 6th book. And what Lupin says in the 7th book makes his own behaviour make sense too. We´re just meant to fill in the blanks when it comes to their romance that we can´t see because they´re both ultimately just side characters.
@@foxial5358 Tonks is half-blood, her father is a muggleborn
Krum and hermione is by far the worst, I’m around his age and wouldn’t DREAM of dating a 14 or 15 year old
Im incredibly late but: REAL
I kinda get that he was supposed to be the _perfect_ boyfriend to make Ron gelous but.. it's giving handcuffs
when i first watched the movie as a kid i could tell he was way older but didn't realise it was THAT bad ugh
I was thinking about that the other day, motherfucker needs a sell in Azkaban
I wouldn’t either but to explain some things. So, Herimone was 15 but is technically 16 because of the whole time turner thing. Since Herimone had lived her third year twice.She kept going back in time because of her taking extra classes that were at the same time as her others.
Then, we have Victor who is 18 years old. So basically this means they have a 2-3 age gap which isn’t weird. Plus, they didn’t really date much. The only thing they have done was going to the dance and then have a long distance relationship, with them communicating to each other by sending letters to each other. Then, they broke up before Herimone’s 6 year.
@@Rawan.9472 no that’s not how it works, she didn’t spend 365 days worth of time using the turner she only did it for classes which are like a hour each, she didn’t relive a entire year just a couple classes
Bill and Fleur were very wholesome, the best couple actually but JK and every female character loathed and crapped on Fleur, I felt disgusted by the blatant misogyny at times but they were also pure perfection as a couple. Hermione and Ron had sweet moments in the book just chaotic due to their hormones and stubbornness, they weren't an epic love but they're a fun read by the end. Harry and Ginny, I can't get behind. They are cute at times but we spend about THREE books on Harry thinking Cho was hot, one failed date and then gets together with Ginny and now they're in love? We get told they got close in the summer but we don't see it
Bill and Fleur also get together off the page.
You do realize that Fleur had a condescending, vain, and rude personality, from the moment she is introduced in the Goblet of Fire? She treats Ginny like she's a three year old, and kept on comparing how things were at the Burrow and Hogwarts to how she did it at home. Fleur literally says that "there's nothing to do at the Burrow, unless you like cooking or chickens". No wonder they didn't like her. Really, it's only with the Hospital Wing scene that she is established as a good character, but that doesn't mean that she's an angel from heaven that everyone misunderstood.
No, Harry and Ginny didn't come out of nowhere. In OotP, for instance, Harry and Ginny grow closer together and become very good friends, Harry begins to notice her personality and looks a lot more, and they share plenty of deep as well as light-hearted moments. This is because Ginny finally abandoned completely her previous shyness. This sets the stage for Harry eventually falling for her in the HBP; and even before the chest monster there are plenty of hints that Harry is into Ginny (like on the Hogwarts Express, the Amortentia, Harry watching Ginny when he's talking with Hermione, them joking around during the summer, Harry inviting Ginny to spend the day with them in Hogsmeade, Harry thinking negatively of Ginny and Dean at Hogsmeade in Madam Puddifoot's, his reluctance to ask Dean to replace Katie).
@@stefan4159
That's fair enough. Maybe on my next reread I'll enjoy Ginny and Harry better since I do want to. But Fleur being condescending is okay too, she's allowed to have flaws. My main issue was that the was often mocked for her broken English and beauty so it was uncomfortable to read
@@tomatosoup1304 dunno how you can call it misogyny when it was all the female characters who hated fleur. The guys didnt mind her at all.
Here's a red flag for you Hinny (or whatever you people call it) lovers: "I knew you wouldn’t be happy unless you were hunting Voldemort. Maybe that’s why I like you so much."
Yes, this is a direct quote, straight out of Ginny's mouth as Harry tries to break up with her and honestly... has this girl even met Harry? He doesn't like to "hunt" Voldemort. Heck, Harry isn't the one doing the hunting. I bet if Voldie contracted a disease and died during the books, Harry would try to make that day a national wizarding holiday.
And "that's why I like you so much"? And people get salty when I call her a fangirl. What Ginny loves isn't Harry. At least not the realistic version of Harry. She loves basilisk slayer Harry. She likes the hero Harry. She likes Harry's ideal hero version. What Ginny is is a run of the mill fangirl that loves the Boy Who Lived. I really hoped that they'd keep her as a background character, but then she had to break up with Dean. I also hoped that after that brilliant line from Ginny Harry would've made the breakup personal and official, but no. Hinny is made canon in the Epilogue. Rowling gave us Bill/Fleur (my only canon Harry Potter OTP), but she did Ginny so dirty by making her a primary character.
It's only a red flag if you completely misunderstand 1) what Ginny is saying 2) Harry and Ginny's individual personalities 3) their overall relationship 4) the context of the plot.
Ginny is _not_ saying "I knew *_you'd be happy_* to hunt Voldemort". Because she is in fact correct in the original quote - i.e. "I knew you *_wouldn't_* be happy *_unless_* ". Ginny doesn't mean that he's glad to fight Voldemort and that he will be doing so with a smile on his face. She means that his personality and morality would not deter him from his mission, because he wants to do the right thing no matter what, and that failure to do so means an increased chance of Voldemort rampaging across the Wizarding World.
What Ginny says is in relation to the possibility that Harry just sits things out... and no, he absolutely wouldn't be happy in that scenario! Hell, he says as much to Dumbledore in Chapter 23 of HBP. Whereas if Harry takes the fight to Voldemort, he at least has a chance of being happy, at least after the whole thing is done and dusted with. So, far from it being proof of Ginny not understanding him, it's in fact proof that they do "understand each other perfectly", to quote the scene itself, and that they do have a shared morality, worldview and personality.
And no, Ginny is not a "run of the mill fangirl". She is no different to the Twins, Ron and Hermione, who, yes, at first acted based on his fame, but then grew quickly past that. Once she knew more about him she developed feelings for her older brother's cool best friend. It's not that complicated. Hell, if anything, as early as book 2 Ginny clearly grasps a key feature of Harry's personality, namely his aversion to his fame and status and being paraded around; something that every single other hero-worshipper -- for ex. Colin Creevey and Romilda Vane -- clearly did not understand.
@@stefan4159 This was so well explained, I agree!
@@foxial5358 Thank you so much! I understand that H/G might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I dislike when people actively spread dis/misinformation about the pairing.
@@stefan4159 No problem! :) It´s always fun to read good analyses.
I completely agree. I’ve also found the Hinny ship incredibly creepy because Harry essentially marries his mommy clone. Like, really Harry? I get it, Lily died when he was baby, but a girl who has red hair and freckles and looks like his sainted dead mother save for her eye color is your ideal chick? Gross.
The thing with Ginny is that she’s basically a completely different character between books 2 and like, 5. Starts out as this complete shrinking violet and then she’s all of a sudden the Cool Sports Girl who can roughhouse with the boys and has a temper. Yes that kind of change in temperament can happen as someone grows up, but we never see the progression so it comes out of nowhere.
Also, Ginny is 35 or 36 in the epilogue, meaning she started having kids when she was 24 or 25. We also know that JKR’s said Ginny plays for the Holyhead Harpies as an adult. Since we never see any mothers in HP who work outside the home, that presumably means that Ginny, who loved Quidditch and was one of the best players on the team, only plays professionally for at MOST seven years.
THANK YOU! I've felt weird about the romances since HS in 2009 when we were all team rowling and saying things bad about the books was a no no. I also always felt like Cho/Harry was the most compelling and was really disappointed when it was clear Ginny was going to be end game for SOME reason. and Remus and Tonks are so OBVIOUSLY both gay, even in subtext that something just felt OFF about them. Like you said, feels like he marries her out of pity (The man doesnt even smile when she shares the news/ring! She's beaming and he's apparently zoning out wishing to die like are you joking???) and then tries to RUN AWAY BEFORE HE GETS STUCK LIKE YIKES. He's happy about being a Dad because, yeah, sure! You can love your kid without... you know... loving your spouse lmao it's all so much....
To be fair, in the 7th book, Lupin explains the reason why he is worrying so much, not because he doesn´t love Tonks, but because their marriage is frowned upon by the vast majority of the wizarding world outside of the Order and Hogwarts. He explains it has made Tonks an outcast, even her own family doesn´t completely approve. Considering everything he went through, it´s understandable he doesn´t want his wife and child bear the burden of it. And storywise, their marriage is simply there to go against the ideals of blood purity which was the main theme of the books that often ties different characters and their stories together, and their son parallels Harry.
9:16 Then there's "Always" a quote that has always sickened me. It's intended to be "Yes I still love her even now" but is more like Snape's still obsessed with Lily years after her death even though she only saw him as a friend in a friendship he ruined by calling her a Mudblood even though she'd just stopped James and Sirius bullying him. Snape himself was also part of a gang of bullies as bad as the Marauders. He'd have let her be happy with James if he'd actually loved her not gone "If I can't have you" and asked Voldemort to kill James and Harry but leave Lily alive for him.
And that's what makes Snape irredeemable to me. He wanted Lily so badly that he was fine with them killing her husband and innocent child. He's a terrible person and I can't feel sorry for him.
@@mish375 I'll never understand how anybody thinks he's tragic. Some of his crazier fanboys and fangirls think Lily should have dated Snape out of pity for him growing up poor and being abused and bullied and say she's shallow for not doing that.
@@Xehanort10 And they're the same ones who will say that a girl being friends with a man doesn't entitle her to date them. A person isn't owed a relationship just for being friends with someone. You know, if Rowling really wanted to make Snape sympathetic, she could have written it that Snape tried to save the entire family for Lily's sake; but it ended badly anyways. And then if Rowling was a better writer, she would have built up Snape and Harry's relationship as reluctant mentor-student over the 7 books, without Harry knowing about Snape's past with Lily. But that never happens.
Idk why people assume Snape believed he'd have Lily tho. He said spare Lily cuz he cared about her. He never said spare Lily to take out the competition so I can get her instead.
That just seems like the worst possible interpretation when in reality, it makes sense he'd ask to spare his former friend and NOT his former bully.
In Snape’s defense: don’t skip over the fact that he watches his best friend grin at him being assaulted before he called her mudblood. Lily is not a victim
good points! i didn't even realize how these rmoances really were like until you made this video. I also thought that harry x ginny was a bit rushed
I think it all needed an bit rewriting/reworking for it all to work out. Like for example SHOW the audience James has grown as an person when dating Lily not just bully her best friend behind her back while dating her. (Also JK written a short story on James meeting Lily's sister and her husband he was very rude to them ruining their relationship.) Why is James considered good again? I mean at least he did defend his wife and son but outside of that he seems to be an jerk. Also it would have better for Snape to join the Death Eater (Being a double agent) AFTER Lily's death not before so we as the audience can sympathize with him more so. Let Lily's and Snape's falling out be because James is still bullying him and Lily not believing that her changed boyfriend is still being an asshole. Boom. Lily can still sacrifice herself for Harry without Snape begging Voldy to spare her. It doesn't ruin the story. Also don't have Lily's smiling during Snape's worst memory! It makes the reader question why he never moved on from her. Those are just an few changes I would personally make to the Harry Potter story anyway.
Good ideas! But the problem is, the only reason Lily had the chance to sacrifice her life for Harry's is that Voldemort promised Severus to spare Lily if he could. That's why he gave her the chance to step aside; anyone else he would have avada kedavra'd without a second thought, like he did James Potter just a few seconds before.
To my mind, if Snape had never joined the Death Eaters, the Chosen One wouldn't be Harry Potter, but Draco Malfoy. That's because Lucius Malfoy's wealth and connections made him useful enough that Voldemort would be willing to spare him if he'd step out of the way and allow his son to be slaughtered... and neither Lucius nor Narcissa would be willing to do that. So... Voldemort kills both of them, giving Draco the love protection that makes avada kedavra bounce off him and disintegrates Voldy into his component atoms. Thus Draco Malfoy becomes the Boy-Who-Lived, savior of the Wizarding World. 😉
@@astrinymris9953 To fix that problem Voldemort has actually asked Lily and James to join him infact it was one of the times they, "trice betrayed him." Which doesn't make any sense because Lily is muggleborn. My thought is Voldemort could shove Lily to the side/tell her to get away and he'd want her to live because it's a testament to his cruelty as punishment for turning him down he'd make Lily live without James and watch her only son die.
@@astrinymris9953no..if Snape never joined the death eaters, the chosen one would have been Neville Longbottom. He also matched the requirements of the prophecy, it was only that voldemort chose harry as his equal coz he was a half blood like him.
Draco never matched the requirements, voldemort would have no reason to kill him in the first place for all these events to unfold.
@@Alisha120058James was not rude to the Dursleys. Vernon was the one who kept patronizing James and James was only correcting Vernon's attitude.
I'll never understand how Lily saw James as boyfriend material after knowing he assaulted her best friend as blackmail for dates.
And yeah I hated that Lily smiled. WTF. It makes her a very toxic friend and I have no clue why Snape still considered her to be a friend afterwards.
I read some of the Amazon free preview of 'The Ink-Black Heart' so I can confirm: Rowling cannot write believable romance. 🤣
She's also not good at writing functional parent/child relationships if you stop to think about it. She tries to with Molly Weasley and gets a few good moments, but it's really underwhelming. Molly can't remember Ron's favorite color or food preferences, she and Arthur go on a winter vacation that her sons are not invited to during Ron's *first year* at Hogwarts, and buys him horrible dress robes for the Yule Ball.
Now, you can say this is because she has so many kids, and so she shouldn't be blamed. But at essential part of being a parent is providing for your children. If you don't have the time and money to support seven kids, then *don't have seven kids*. You can't tell me the Wizading World doesn't have highly effective contraception.
But a bigger problem is the Weasley don't use what money they have effectively. I mean, they win the lottery, and decide to blow that money on an Egyptian vacation rather than keeping it back to pay for their children's needs. It's baffling. I can't decide if this is Rowling's difficulty with internal consistency or expressing her real life political beliefs about the causes of poverty.
I mean they probably don’t to answer your comment about contraception, the wizarding world is placed firmly in the early 20th century. They could have magical alternatives but they probably aren’t looked on well, it isn’t like Hogwarts has sex education, and the only times we see someone intervening is when Snape chases students from bushes and Umbridge magically separating a couple (hurrah for the bad guys preventing teen pregnancy right?!😂) as far as Molly and Arthur are concerned, according the Rowling, Molly wanted a daughter but she kept having sons.
Her experience with poverty was basically a year and a half long. She got on benefits (I'm going to call that Safety Net #0 because while that is ideally the default for someone in poverty, people also get denied benefits all the time) and moved out of her sister's house (Safety Net #1 she could have returned to if things got real tight again), finished writing the first book in her brother-in-law's cafe (Safety Net #1.5, since I assume that came with free food), she had a part-time job where she earned just enough to not lose her benefits (Safety Net #2), one friend lent her several hundred pounds to move into a better flat (Safety Net #3), then another friend just gave her money to go back to school to get her teaching certificate (Safety Net #4).
I fully understand how it would have seemed so difficult to someone who had grown up middle class and was struggling with depression while going through a messy divorce with an abusive husband, but she also had a lot of support, financial and otherwise, that most people in real poverty would not have had. And that's reflected in the Weasleys. They're "poor", but somehow there's always just enough to scrape by. I don't think she was making any commentary about them being poor because they're irresponsible with money either, I think she legitimately didn't notice that they were because she didn't exactly scrimp and save her way out of poverty either. If she ever really needed money, there were plenty of people who could and did loan or give it to her.
I think you'll find it's the former is the reason. I think you will find its Rollings inconsistencies. I have spent so much time recently finding so many consistencies in her writing and her books. It's absolutely incredible, and I can't help wondering how it got past the editors. It is just so full of potholes, plot conveniences, character inconsistencies… lately I have thought that about the Weasleys, but it is not the only character in consistency she has. Recently, I was alerted to another big one.
Nah she is. How was that underwhelming?
Tbf they have so many kids...it`s hard to remember all of that. Her buying Ron bad dress robes is on her but no parent is perfect and that is functional and believable writing.
True but it still makes sense and explains why she is like that.
It could be neither and that the Weasleys just are not good at saving money.
@@Jdudec367 well she didnt buy him the robes, they were hand-me-downs
you would have been accurate if you had stopped at "JK Rowling sucks at writing."
Rowling is a divorced woman, I think it bleeds through that she writes every couple in the most toxic, bitter, bickering way possible. It's not healthy and it is weird how the "see they do love each other" bits are just when the character is showing JEALOUSY and PASSIVE AGGRESSION... like that's the sign that you're in love. It's crazy.
The James problem is so true. When I read books as a kid, I was convinced he's a terrible person. Also I thought Lily was a bully too, that's why she married him, and that's why her sister hated her and her son so much.
Lilly might have been a horrible person too, just like Petunia.
@@silvermeasuringspoons6462 that's what I thought, like Petunia was neglected and Lilly was spoiled
That's an interesting take! And now I think if it we needed more characterisation for Lily besides "wife and mother who died tragically"
I never considered that Lily is as bad as Petunia but maybe she's just viewed as sainted in hindsight. But that's honestly a good interpretation given she didn't really seem like a good friend tbh. She believes James about werewolf incident over her supposed best friend. She also smiled when James attacked Snape too.
To me, Harry Potter is like the Star Wars prequels: I liked them as a kid, and I still like them today as an adult. Even if the more I think about them, the more problems I find.
Maybe you are having your perpective bad, if you think that Anakin and Padme had a star crossed romance, like Padme, you are ignoring all the red flags, even that are problems in both sides, Anakin wanted a replacement for his mother, that why he was so obsessed for Padme, and Padme wanted a family outside her duties, their ideologies are categorically opposite, Anakin believe in the outdated concept of the philosopher king that is basically a dictator, and Padme a believes in a hardcore democracy, also the fact that Anakin is jealous all the time with some men in Padme life, ignore his wife ideas and feelings in front her face when he is around Palpatine, their marriage was doomed to fail from the beginning.
@@TheKeyser94their marriage was doomed because Anakin was a literal child when they met. They never should have gotten together in the first place because that’s called grooming.
this isn't really a fair point. They met knew each other for a short time in phantom menace, then diddnt see each other for 10 years until attack of the clones when they were both adults. I really don't see any argument for that being grooming. If they knew each other better in phantom menace or if they'd seen each other at any point in the decade between the films you might have a point, but I don't see it.
@@LilCinnamonRoll2006 I blame the casting for that. Anakin was 9 and Padme was 14 - played by the then 19 Natalie, so of course it looked weird. Personally I have nothing against Jake, but Anakin should have been cast as a 12 years old, and Padme in ep 1 should have been played by Keira Knightley, who was not simply 14 at that time, but she was playing Sabé, the main decoy! Then switch to Natalie for the other 2 movies and everything is fixed: all the weird age gaps removed, everyone is the age they should be, and a 12 years old having a crush on a 14 years old is completely realistic.
@@LilCinnamonRoll2006 Bizarre take. Padme was 14 in TPM, and she knew Anakin for like a few days and did nothing to him. The fact that they got together 10 years later does not mean she groomed him.
Can we all agree Dursleys are relationship goals? Ignoring bad parenting, just talking about their marriage - they're cuties 😭❤️
Ron and Hermione are by far my least favorite. They were entirely unconvincing as a couple, having experienced so much animosity between the two, their affections for each other felt forced and out of place. When they came together it seemed strange, and made both of them seem out of character. I think the main issue is that the character growth that would have been required to see them make a believable couple never happened. Ron would have needed to gain some more emotional intelligence, and Hermione more patience and less vindictiveness. It never happened.
Remus and Tonks was frankly ridiculous. There was never anything that foreshadowed the relationship in their interactions so it seemed out of the blue. I also believe Rowling gave Remus a wife and child for emotional effect when he died. The thing is, I don’t believe he should have died from a story-writing point of view in the first place. But anyways, their deaths, although sad, never affected the audience in the way they should have because we never felt emotionally invested in their relationship.
I don’t mind Ron and Hermione’s thing because I think it makes sense. They both go through a lot of trauma, though not as much as Harry. They strive to help Harry but can’t really understand him fully. It makes sense that they’d turn to each other for comfort.
What bugs me is how much jealousy is used by JKR to denote that characters like each other. Some jealousy is normal, but I don’t think it should be so prominent in every single romance, to the point where it’s the main way of showing characters like each other. That’s so toxic.
Edit: also Snape is a fucking scumbag, fuck that double crosser.
Snape is a selfish @sshole even at the end. All he cared about was getting with Lily and didn't care if her husband and child died. And people seem to think this humanizes him. No, no it does not.
@@mish375Have fun knowing you're extremely stupid. Your hate has blinded any reasoning abilities you might have had
As someone who got into the HP fandom. I did like the Cho X Harry ship. Honestly I could never get into Hermione X Ron romance. From the movies I did like the alternative ship of Harry X Hermione. I feel if JK did write a good romance writing I would say opposites attract would be Hermione X Draco.
This is why I prefer Rick Riodan Percy Jackson series. At least he makes their romances so good & consistent like Percy X Annabeth. We see them grow from Book 1 to book 10.
yeah i agree, i originally liked hermione and harry together but realized the chemistry i thought they had was more projected based on tropes
Percabeth is amazing
@@livlmao508 not really. The “strong woman always ends up with the weaker man” trope is Hermione and Ron’s relationship. Hermione and Harry actually made sense it wasn’t a trope. Hermione was not popular, an “it girl” or anything of the sort, she was just his friend and Harry possessed more qualities she admired than Ron did. By comparison, in reality, Hermione wouldn’t even consider Ron. She’d get with Harry. As someone who sees herself in female characters like Hermione it’s be refreshing to see a healthy romance for these kinds of women characters and one where the hero wants to get with her and not the weaker, prettier damsel in distress in Ginny.
@@thebadguychinli4011 I woudn't really call Ron the "weaker man"; he had quite a few redeeming qualities. I don't think getting concussed by a life-sized chess piece at 11 for your friend to continue his dangerous adventure to prevent a bad guy from getting his hands on a "brings-people-back-from-the-dead" stone, standing up for your friend's honor (although the slug spell backfired on him because of his broken second-hand wand) when they get bullied at 12, and standing up against a known murderer on a broken leg to defend your friend at 13, and many other acts of bravery would categorize as "weak".
This whole spectrum of a strong worthy man and an incompetent weak man is quite toxic in itself in my opinion.
PS. Even though Ginny did start off as a sort of damsel-in-distress with the Chamber of Secrets and was outwardly depicted as attractive (or in Harry Potter's case very inwardly), she's in no way a "weak woman"; she's actually pretty badass and fiery in the books.
Agreed
True but like-
JK Rowling didn't have a very good romance to start with-
October 16th
Context ?
@user-nk7qd9hy8x They're probably referencing that she's a domestic abuse and sexual assault survivor.
I only like the series till the third book/film. I never did like Ron/Hermione ship due to to the fact that it was toxic and emotionally abusive. He treated her poorly and we’re expected to think it was wonderful that they got together in the end. I never liked Harry with Cho, or Ginny. Both were cringy immature relationships. His anger suddenly popped out of no where in the fourth book, regarding Ginny dating Dean(?) Where was his crush on or feeling a towards Ginny before hand? There was no evidence that in three years that Harry knew the Weasley’s that he had feelings towards her. And we’re supposed to believe that? The most cringy line that I can remember was when his anger was “stirred like an angry lion.” Yeah, sure. 🙄 This is why I ship Luna/Harry. The fan on pairing feels genuine. And I do believe that although Luna was written to be an outcast and largely weird, I think she understood Harry, more than anyone else. Tonks/Lupin was such an odd pairing that I couldn’t ship it. The only pairing that I like is Luna/Harry, even though it’s fanon.
Here we go again with the same old Ron bashing masquerading as criticism of Ron/Hermione. As though Hermione never treated Ron poorly. And considering Harry and Ginny are confirmed to have stayed together for decades (as they are married), how the hell can you claim that it's just like Harry and Cho's immature relationship? And you are missing so, so many details with Harry and Ginny's relationship, because first of all, Harry's anger about Ginny and Dean did not happen in the fourth book! Harry realized he had feelings for Ginny in the sixth book. This is built up from the fifth book, in which Harry is noticing her a lot more and they become good friends.
@@stefan4159 Especially since Hermione sets a flock of birds on Ron at one point out of jealousy that he's dating Lavender and not her.
Personally I felt they could have just cut the romance with Cho Chang all together and just focused on Harry and Jinny and right from the start
Rowling spent books 4 and 5 building up Cho as a potential love only to kinda just have her fade into obscurity as a result the Harry and Cho dinamic ultimately didn't serve much of a purpose outside teen drama
Nah bro, Ginny and Harry was just weird, it's not good. It's not problematic or anything, it's just really rushed, and Ginny frankly has little to no personality. I can only think of like, two or three things about her, and one of those is that's she's in love with Harry.
It's not rushed, it just could have used a bit more developed. But there were plenty of hints towards the pairing before Harry stumbles across her and Dean in book 6. And the "little to no personality" thing is only from the movies. At least from the books, there are many more things that one can think about Ginny:
+++ She's a great cat lover
+++ She is friends with Neville and Luna
+++ She was banned from Hogsmeade due to leading the DA rebellion in the school
+++ Like Neville, she was likely tortured
+++ She doesn't get along well with Fleur
+++ She looks up to Fred and George
This is all surface-level stuff, there is plenty more on her character in the books, both surface-level and in detail. And with respect to "She's in love with Harry" that itself is more nuanced.
@@stefan4159 I've read the books, and I seriously cannot remember a single one of these things that you have listed, other than perhaps she was friends with Neville and Luna, but that really doesn't give her a personality does it? The only other thing I can remember is that she's good at Jinxes. Frankly, how nuanced is her love for Harry? She was read bedtime stories about the Boy Who Lived and frankly it's very obviously hero-worship, and she didn't really spend any amount of time with him alone as far as I can remember. 90% of the time Ginny and Harry were in the same room, it was with the rest of the Weasley family, so they didn't have many interactions aside from very brief ones. Frankly, I just prefer Harry and Cho.
Its only weird because there was no build up, and its the same for ron and hermione except there was build but was done horribly, the funny thing is that there unironically decent build ups for hermione and harry, but it seemed as if some act of god decided that she would like ron early on in the movies despite having good chemistry and weirdly close interaction together, if anything else, jk needed to write ron a new character to love or had him not there at all, hell make ron a girl and have harry fall in love with girl ron to cause some drama with hermione or smth.
Ginny has a personality, at least in the books
@@violetlavi2207 not really
I would have loved for Harry to end up with Cho Chang eventually. I never liked Ginny in the books or the movies the way she was written. Her glow up was sudden and abrupt and out of alignment with how she was barely written in earlier books
There was nothing sudden about Ginny's development; even when she was shy, you could see glimpses of her true personality. Even Ron comments in book 2 that "it's weird for her" to be this shy.
I never bought the whole "She's actually tough and was only shy around Harry." Just feels like she went from shy girl with a crush to suddenly "all the boys fancy Ginny and all the girls want to be her friend."
Same. She's mean-spirited and arrogant in the books, and just a flat piece of cardboard in the movies. Not criticising her actor, by the way, it's the writing for Ginny that gave her nothing to work with.
@@Niobesnuppa In the Half Blood Prince film Ginny was downright weird especially when she says "Don't you trust me" before feeding Harry a mince pie. It comes off like she put love potion in it which would explain how he goes from barely interacting with her to thinking she's the sexiest woman on earth. And later she comes down the stairs in a dressing gown, looks like she's about to blow him when she bends down to tie his shoe and before Bellatrix burns the Burrow it seemed like Harry and Ginny were about to go upstairs and fuck.
I absolutely love your suggested rewrite of Harry and Ginny's relationship. You're exactly right - it needed a lot more time to bake in the oven. The way it's presented, it just happens way too fast for readers to really care about it, even though sharp readers were able to guess several books beforehand that they'd end up together.
The first part of Lily x James is amazing! But where the hell is the rest of it?! We needed to see James stop, for Lily at first then to become a better person
Bill and Fleur - thumbs up
Arthur and Molly - thumbs up
James and Lily - totally unconvincing. He is a toerag in OOTP, there is no direct evidence for his alleged change of character, and even in DH, when he is mentioned in Lily's letter, he is merely mentioned, not seen. The JP of DH might as well be a different person from the JP of OOTP. And the sainted Lily was very unforgiving after Snape used the M word. He tried to apologise.
Like Hermione, Lily has a vindictive streak. James Potter is like Draco; Lily is like Hermione; Ron is like both Sirius and Lupin.
One of the conclusions that I draw from the books is that Harry is a poor judge of character, and too emotional and biased to let go of a grudge. He fails, until it is too late to change anything, to grow out of his animosity to Snape. Of course, Snape was very unfair and immature to hate Harry, who can't help his parentage or looks; but even so, Harry should have grown up a bit more. Maybe he was too traumatised by the Dursleys to be able to.
Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will shut up haters like you for good.
@@paulyb7267 Sorry to upset you. I think people are allowed to have differing opinions on things - including stuff like this.
@@JamesMC04 You know, your James hate (which Rowling is reported to be unnerved by) is exactly the reason why there should DEFINITELY be a story about the Potter family or Marauders with James as the main/central character under his POV. And I would love to see the look on your face if that happened!
@@paulyb7267 My opinion on all of this seems to bother you an awful lot. I'm sorry if that is so. Something as unimportant as a difference of opinion about a fictional character should not hurt people; life is too short for that. You have your opinion - and I have mine. Is there something wrong in that ? Again, I apologise if my expression of opinion hurt you.
@@JamesMC04 Agreed, some people just take fictional stories/worlds/characters waaaayyyy too seriously. :P
I’ve always disliked James and Lily too, just looking at the books/movies. I can excuse Ron and Hermione because of the pressure that they were consistently under, but what was James’s excuse?
James’s excuse for what, exactly? Bullying someone who regularly called Muggleborns “Mudbloods” and hung around with Death Eaters?
@@violetlavi2207 From what I understand, he lived in Slytherin. Would you turn the whole school against you? James hated him because of his house, as far as I know.
@@charissawilkinson9270 maybe at first, but he really started hating Snape because a) they had a mutual rivalry and b) Snape literally went around calling Muggleborns “Mudbloods”, hung around with Death Eaters, and laughed about Dark Magic
@@violetlavi2207 If you have enemies in 3 of 4 houses, are you really going to burn your last bridge? Or will you have a small sense of self-preservation.
@@charissawilkinson9270 …so there’s actually no justification for laughing about Dark Magic being used against someone and calling various Muggleborns a bigoted slur unprompted, hope this helps!
Not to mention that Remus is in his mid to late thirties and Tonks is in her early 20s. She's the same age as CHARLIE, Ron's brother. She's only 8 years older than a kid young enough to be Remus's son. If it wasn't so obvious that it's REMUS that's being forced into this relationship that he CLEARLY doesn't want to be in (hence all the avoiding and running away he does through the whole thing) I'd be calling grooming all over this! She married a man that's almost as old as her own parents. He was already a Hogwarts student when she was BORN. Maybe in another decade or so, a relationship with a 12 year age gap could work, but not when she's 23 and he's 35. Those are totally different life stages. Hell, her brain isn't even fully developed yet! Just reverse the scenario and imagine it's Tonks that everyone was pressuring to get with a man 12 years older than her rather than the other way around if you can't see how squick that is. I loved Remus and I loved Tonks as two individuals, but their whole "love" story kind of ruined their characters in my eyes. Tonks of book 6 is not the same spunky and cool character as the Tonks from book 5. And that whole "she wasn't depressed because her cousin and one of the only members of her family that actually accepted her and loved her despite her halfblood status died in front of her, but because the man she wants doesn't want her so now she can barely manage to function and her powers are all out of wack" thing was just horrible. Because apparently a woman's only worth is to be loved by a man and if he refuses to love her she's incapable of picking herself back up and moving on to other prospects and finding happiness and self-validation outside of him.
Ooh I forgot how much I hated that storyline. As you said, which is weird because I liked both Lupin and Tonks before. I liked their death scene, as sad as it was, that was well-written. But JKR and romance, man.
Sorry but a lot of people today have a 12 years age gap in their relationship. There is literally nothing weird with being 23 and being with a person who's 35. 35 is still young. 23 is a full grown adult. The romance is just poorly written, it has nothing to do with the age of the characters.
Agreed, Tonks really should´ve been just written to be in her 30s as well, but to be fair, wizards live 2-3 times longer than muggles, so age gaps like that could be expected and there are much weirder things in the wizarding world, like half-elves and half-giants, not to mention blood purity. In many other fantasy novels there are even bigger age gaps (even hundreds of years) and characters often loose their magic/abilities as a sign of their heartbreak. And storywise, in the 6th book, Tonks´ weird behaviour is more like a red-herring that mostly just serves to distract the readers from the real mystery of that book, (that´s why the truth about her is explained only at the end when the main plot is already over) and their marriage goes against the ideals of blood purity (in the 7th book Lupin explains how their marriage is frowned upon by the majority of the wizarding world) and then their son parallels Harry. And many other characters like Snape also change because of love. And because neither Tonks or Lupin are living at Hogwarts, overall there´s just not much attention that can be put into that relationship so we don´t know all the details anyway.
The age difference isn't even that bad it's like people ate forgetting. Tonks is a FULLY grown woman.
@@kameronbailey6939 While there often are bigger age gaps in fantasy books, realistically, it´s still quite a big age gap during that age, wizards or not. And it´s not like their ages are that important storywise so Tonks could´ve been easily written to be in her 30s too and their story would´ve been exactly the same.
Ok, I'm five minutes through and I'm interrupting to leave a comment. I'll watch the rest later.
I agree on the fact that Rowling isn't very good at writing healthy or nuanced romantic relationship. She's good at writing singular scenes, but not at contesualizing them or at building an arc.
BUT... I don't actually agree with your perspective on it either 😅. For example, you seem very much focused on how toxic Hermione is to Ron, when I think Ron was much much worse. Hermione may be vindictive, but Ron is EVEN MORE so. In the 3rd book: yes, she didn't want to aknowledge that her pet was a danger to Ron's pet. Stupidity and stubborness, I guess. It's bad and it shouldn't be underastimated, but she was a child and she had no ill intention. But I remember that Ron was absolutely mean to her even before things happened to Scabbers. He didn't forgave her for the Firebolt incident, for example, even though she may had her good reasons. And he was mean on purpose even after things were resolved. He held a grudge even after Harry, who was the one who was actually wronged, had alredy forgiven her.
Regarding book 6: yes, she did the bird thing. It's bad. Still, it was because Ron started to ignore her and be deliberately aggressive to her, all of a sudden and without giving her a single explanation, only to make her pay for having kissed Krum (which he had just discovered from Ginny). Really??? How wrong is that? Things were going smoothly between him and Hermione at the time, but that doesn't mean she couldn't have had a strory with someone else BEFORE, just because at the point they seemed about to get togheter. She isn't your property, Ron, y'know?
And I remember that Ron was bad to her in book 4 too, but I read it long ago and I don't remember the details.
So... Hermione did bad things, but never without a reason, and she never started a fight. Her bad reactions were mostly responses to very mean actions from Ron. The only time she REALLY went overboard, imo, was with Marietta and the scroll, which had nothing to do with Ron (but which Ron approved).
The only reason why I might be ok with them getting togheter is that I hope Ron grew up during the 7th book. His jealousy before was really excessive, "controlling" and out of place.
Regarding Hermione's two "physical aggressions": sadly, nothing different from what regularly happens in the magical world. Ron threw himself in "muggle-style fights" more than once with Malfoy and co. Wizards seem to have a different perception of danger and physical pain than us: just think about Fred and George's "jokes". Oh, I also remember that Ron casually threw a knife at George/Fred once, and Fred/George immediately, just as casually, turned it into a paper plane.
Hearing you say "a character like Hermione would have never forgiven Ron for leaving, it isn't realistic" is what drove me to write this comment. It's just... not true. Hermione held grudges, but she ALWAYS forgave Ron and Harry in the past. The only time something extreme had to happen before she forgave Ron was in book 6, when Ron was mean to her for days without giving her any explanation just as they were about to get togheter, and then he suddenly started to date another girl. If she could forgive him then, she sure can do it when Ron had actually valid excuses to act the way he did and immediately regretted it.
I'm not a Hermione apologist, by the way. I don't dislike her, and I quite enjoy her at times, but she isn't my favorite character, nor one of my favorites. Ron, on the other hand, was my favorite character in book 1 and 2. But early as book 3 I started to be disappointed in him.
Rowling really derailed Ron's character after Book 3, apparently it was because she found out some people liked him more than Harry or Hermione.
Ron and Hermione are an absolutely abysmal couple. They have no build up at all, because all they do is fight, and constant fighting isn't something to build a relationship off of.
They ended up together because Hermione is JK´s self-insert, and Ron is her childhood friend (the one JK secretly wanted to be with). Rowling also admitted it was just meant to be wish-fulfillment.
Rowling's probably one of those people who thinks a couple who hate each other and constantly argue is secret sexual tension.
@@Xehanort10 Not really, because Hermione was based on her, and Ron was based on JK´s childhood friend.
tbh theyre one of my faves (not that there's much to choose from..) but i completely get what you're saying. it would've been way better if she hadn't made everyone find their endgame couples by the end of the series. itd prob be realistic if they had fallen in love years after book 7 but she just needed to have a cheesy rushed happy ending smh
you are stupid
When I read the books I was always repulsed by James and Lily for the exact reasons you mentioned. I NEVER understood why seemingly the whole fandom was obsessed with them🥲
I never understood how Harry and Ginny fell in love. It just seemed so sudden. The only thing that suggested that they might end up together was when Ginny looked at Harry when she first met him and seemed kinda shy around him. I also don't know what Ron and Hermione saw in each other. They were best friends, and then suddenly she got mad at him when he didn't consider her for the ball...? I remember so little about their relationships in the books, but maybe that was because there was hardly anything to read about their relationships to begin with...
Actually it wasn't such a sudden thing in the books. He spent so many summer months at the Weasleys' and Rowling actually almost had something solid with the Harry and Ginny romance buildup.
most things sucks in harry potter the romance is no exeption.
I loved the Harry Potter book but u know not everything is perfect. And the romance part is what I didn't like .
Rick Riordan is much better at it
Percabeth is a better ship than hinny
And Rick puts them through hell
Literally
Twice
0:31 I think it's less that he thinks a child can kill him than it is that he fears that he will one day grow up to kill him.
You explained better than I could why I hate it when the fandom is constantly bashing Snape but praising James. James never had any real redemption, Lily only seemed to fall in love with him because Snape called her a slur and she needed to find someone else. But either way, I always thought Lily was an incredibly boring character since she was just so perfect.
I also think Harry x Ginny was the couple I was least invested in BECAUSE of the reasons you listed. She was basically absent for 3 books and then just came back as another beautiful flawless character but because we never saw that growth I still saw her as a child.
Fans like James for 3 reasons:
A) they fell in love with book 3 and James is admittedly built up in that book as a good friend to Sirius and Remus. They never saw it coming that James was a bully.
B) James is Harry's dad. They like Harry. Thus they liked James and never saw it coming that James is a worse person than his kid.
C) James is rich and handsome and popular. He's given a pretty pass. Same way Draco is too. Snape is poor and unattractive and a loser in school. It's not hard to see why superficial fans just like the pretty rich jock more.
@@l.n.3372makes sense
The way Snape was towards Hermione and Neville upset me why more than the way he was with Harry, it never seemed to bother Harry as much as the other two
Actually in book Ron and Hermione's relationshipwas not that bad.
In the beginning Ron did not like her bossy and know-it-all attitude. But after he saved her from Troll, they became frds. They spend loads of time together in school, even many of the summer holidays Hermione would spend with Ron and they both wrote each other all summer.
In fact in books, Ron defended Hermione a lot more actively, like when in 2nd part he was outraged that Malfoy called her a racist slur and tried to jinx him, or when he stood up for her in front of Snape who tried to insult her in 3rd part and even had to end up in detention for it, not just that he joined Harry to defend her when she was insulted by Malfoy in 4th part and even cursed at Snape when he tried to break them off (at this time Ron was in no talking terms with Harry but he forgot all about it when it came to Hermione).
Ron also praised Hermione's jinxing skills and intelligence much often in books.
In the 3rd and 4th part both had just reached teen, both were being stupid and over emotional like all teens. Hermione refusing to see how Ron's pet's death can be so scarring to Ron and accepting that Crookshanks was trying to eat it. While Ron who never gave a thought about Hermione being liked or chased by another guy, felt a sense crisis when she went to ball with Viktor and lashed out as he being an idiot as he was did not understand why he felt so angry and annoyed at the thought of Hermione being with another guy. It continued in 5th part where Ron was taken aback to know Hermione was still in contact with Viktor and got upset.
All in all, in books there was enough proof of Ron having feelings for Hermione and vice versa. It was the only couple whose story was developed properly. They saw each other at their best and worst and slowly learned to accept and move along with it.
In contrast, no other couple was shown properly. Though I really like Bill & Fleur's story, it all happened behind the scenes.
Okay, I think the Snape, James and Lily love triangle makes sense if, and only if, Lily Evans has a sadomasochistic disorder, with a high level of empathy and a rigid code of ethics. None of these three traits are mutually exclusive, but it is a rather dark interpretation. However, it is logical and would explain the love triangle.
It would partially explain why Snape thought Lily would be into him if he becomes a death eater and it would explain Lily's attraction to James. Like, every new information J.K Rowling adds point in that direction.
The reason Snape thought Lily would be into him is because he's a delusional idiot with an obsession with Lily. The reason Lily was attracted to James is because he was a handsome, talented, good person. It's not that complicated.
Do you think you could explain further? I'd like to understand, just not sure how sadomasochism would come into play, or which ethics in particular Lily and Snape would be mutually beholden to.
@@pringlebatch Taking pleasure in the suffering of oneself or others. in the clinical sense.
@@en4833
James isn't a good person when Lily develops her crush on him so your argument failed. Lily has a crush on James when James was a bully. Hence Lily IS into dicks
Lily and her husband are mere background characters who serve Snape's story. No wonder they're not at all developed.
Harry should’ve ended up with Luna and I will die on that hill
Even though I am a staunch Harry and Hermione shipper, I would have liked Harry and Luna ending up together too. They have some really good and deep moments with each other.
Harry should have named one of his kids after Hagrid . Lmao
Hairy Potter
@@jamesbubu Nah what about Ruby
Rowling is much better at writing deep friendships than romance.
Who's more obsessive the guy who had a crush on his best friend who he actually had a friendship with bed bath & beyond after she rejected him
Or the guy who continuously after out for years to fight her constant rejections and bullied her best friend purely because he had a better relationship with her than he did until he finally called best friend to snap so he was able to ruin the friendship then changed his entire personality just to get the girl?
Still Snape who asked Voldemort to kill James and Harry so he could have Lily and only went to Dumbledore because Voldy went back on their deal and killed her too. Not out of any remorse for his crimes as a Death Eater. A character who bullied a kid because the kid's dad bullied him and the kid's mam wouldn't go out with him isn't sympathetic. Just pathetic.
@@Xehanort10 first of all you have a point but second of all you've misunderstood the timeline.
You seem to have it that Snape didn't go to Dumbledore until after Voldemort killed Lily he went to Dumbledore way before that to protect Lily and keep her safe and he had there's nothing wrong with that.
Yes some people may think it's unfair that he wanted Dumbledore to only protect Lily and not protect James and Harry, but Snape is fully within his rights to not give a s*** about James and did not specifically asked for him to be protected as well. Just because of Lily cares about James doesn't mean Snape have any obligation to do so. And it's not like he refused to let Dumbledore protect the whole family as soon as Dumbledore pointed that out he did agree to have the whole family protected he just hadn't thought of it at first cuz he was focusing on Lily cuz that's the person he actually cares about he doesn't care about James and he doesn't know Harry. and he went out of concern for Lily safety immediately not because Dumbledore not because Voldemort broke his word cuz he didn't know Voldemort was planning to break his word at that point in fact Voldemort didn't technically break his word he did make the offer.
I also never said that snake with a sympathetic character just that he was less of a creep than James because when Lily rejected him he agreed to that and left her alone. Where is James kept pushing kept pushing kept pushing even to the point of trying to be exactly what Lily wanted and basically faking a personality just to get with her name never did any of that.
Everybody acts like James is a hero and Snape is a villain simply because James decided with the order of the Phoenix at one point and Snape sided with the death eaters at one point.
But of course Snape was going to fall in with the death eaters think about it for a second there probably the only friends he have he went to school with some of these kids, his only friend before school with Lily and they didn't end up in the same house so of course Nick would try to get in with the kids in his grade to try and hang out with them when Lily won't and then after Lily rejected him why wouldn't he join them completely. They're not just death eaters they were his classmates and Friends. And not only that they probably matched his views cuz yes they probably is auntie muggle and he probably has a good reason to be. He doesn't really have the best experience with his father or even with Lily considering that Lily rejected him for the fact that he was using hanging out with people who used dark magic but then also with perfectly willing to date James even though James was actively using dark magic on other students. Cuz oh yeah in case you forgot about that James and did actually use dark magic on other students and Snape didn't he only got in trouble by association.
You talk about his crimes of a death eater, but we don't actually have proof of any crimes he actually committed. Not every death eater is sent out on every mission and keep in mind that voldemort's destruction happened maybe 3 years after he got out of school it's entirely possible he didn't kill anyone and we have no idea what kind of activity if he actually did other than one thing and that's telling Voldemort the prophecy.
Yes Snape is a sad and pathetic man and yes he's taking his life frustrations out on children which is not cool and should not be a thing however if we're going to call a character out for bad behavior we might as well make sure the bad behavior were calling them out for is stuff they actually did and while Snape is a fat man a pathetic man and a terrible teacher and should not be around children calling him an obsessive creep is not accurate he is not a creep and he's not obsessive. People always talk about him like he left it after Lily and didn't give I didn't have any genuine caring about her or that if Harry was a girl who looked like Lily instead of a boy who look like James Snape would be a predator towards her or that Snape only wanted to keep it safe so he could use her as his personal sex slave or all kinds of things like that and those are all completely baseless accusations. they act like the mere fact that his feelings didn't go away the moment Lily rejected him means he's a bad person and a predator and ignore the fact that he took her rejection to heart and left her alone for the rest of her life. He never bothered her again after that she told him to leave her alone and he did that the only time he interfered with her life at all was trying to keep her safe because he didn't want Voldemort to kill her and that's perfectly understandable since he does still care about her even if he is respecting her and leaving her alone as she requested.
Call Smith a bitter man all you want call him a terrible teacher or a child abuse are all you'd like but do not call him an incel or a creep because he has neither of those things.
Snape of course
@@Tareltonlives sure
Harry should have named his son Dobby Alistor Potter.
I’d have made Dobby the middle name, but this! Also Ginny doesn’t get name input? And no Hagrid?
@@Nortarachanges Maybe Lily Jr should have been called Ruby or summat?
The video raises some very good points! Though I did wince a little at the comparison of Lily & Snape's relationship to that between a KKK member & a black woman. It felt a little in poor taste & I would really like to know what sort of analogy you were going for here!
Came for LB content, stayed for all of it! Love your channel 💜
Ahh, the KKK and Black woman analogy was a comparison to Snape essentially being electively involved with the Death Eaters, where their whole objective is to cause terror and specifically target muggle borns and muggles in general as they viewed them as lesser beings (akin to racism, like the KKK). So the idea that Snape was "in love" with a muggle born, but still believed in this ideaology is like a KKK member being "in love" with a black woman, despite persecuting them, and inherently viewing them as lesser.
@@SmartyPantsYT ah~ now in get it
@@SmartyPantsYT To be honest, while Snape is a shitty person, it is strongly implied that his love for Lily isn't the only reason why he's doing it all for the good side. It started off that way, but -- as evidenced by him rebuking Phineas Nigellus over the use of "Mudblood" -- he has also abandoned the ideology.
Snape didn’t join the Death Eaters because he believed in their ideology, it was because the people on Dumbledore’s side (mainly the Marauders) and other light side members rejected him because he chose to practice Dark Magic, which the light side ironically had no problem using themselves, the Death Eaters not only accepted him but treated him like a friend and showed him respect and appreciation for his skills.
@@krisynthiagomez5883This!
The best romance is Hagrid and that gigant lady from book 4☝
Olympe Maxime
She can't write romance because she has no love in her heart
I feel like romance in the books was another one of J.K's signature "it would be cool if..." moments. Most problems stem from J.K implementing something because in the confines of the individual book it would be cool but then forgets she needs to expand on it, another example is time travel. I think someone needs to rewrite harry potter with an idea of the plot as the idea of harry potter is good the execution is just kinda bad.
I think most of the adults who die in harry potter were past the ability to be redeemed or change, so that's why they die.
I think some like Tonks and Lupin died for more the sadness that a kid was orphaned again
Dunno about the Ginny/Harry relationship. To me, she's always felt like a satellite character: present when the plot or Harry's character development needs it, conveniently backing out when she'd overshadow the main trio. Sure, it works a little better than the other romantic subplots, but it's still not convincing.
Harry Potter‘s bad romance kind of reminds me Naruto Bad romance.
Definitely
x3 😂
The most reasonable explanation of Harry x Ginny I've seen is that Ginny's family on her mom's side has a secret long-lasting love potion, and Ginny got the recipe right before book 6.
Or, less cynically, that Harry and Ginny are very compatible in terms of humour, interests, personality, morality, experiences, and they gradually grew together over the course of Harry's fifth and sixth year... which is actually what happened.
@@stefan4159
Or more realistically, JKR wanted a wife for her main hero and had already decided that Hermione, Luna, Cho and Fleur are out. Ginny is the only realistic option when those others are not viable.
In real life Lupin would be a dude who abandoned his family because kid has (or even may have) genetic defect. Seriously, that's a good person?
But that's also the whole reason he didn't want to be with Tonks in the first place. He knew that his lycanthropy could possibly affect his children, so he didn't want to pursue a relationship or have children. He knew his life was too unstable and that his condition(Rowling made being a werewolf a clear allegory to AIDS) could make life for his loved ones hell. But instead he's guilt tripped into a relationship and probably wasn't expecting to try having kids with Tonks, having sudden panic that he's ruined everything that was good for him probably kicked in and he chose to avoid it rather than talk to her immediately
@@redscorner4324 Well, he's an adult. And as far as I know, Tonks didn't rape him, so what could be unexpected? Lupin didn't know where the babies come from? Also: this relationship went from rejecting to marriage in... one month? It took them 12 x less time than avoiding. They had plenty of time to talk about such basics.
@@joannadziedzinska1337 Maybe Lupin’s grandfather was American? You know how Americans suck at this stuff.
EXACTLY! Lupin gets way too much leeway. And to anyone who victimizes him saying he didn't want this relationship, why didn't he just get out of it 'before' he got her pregnant?
Book Romione is actually well developed and slow-burn, in my opinion.
They start as them “disliking each other” to slowly caring and then become Friends and then Friends that sometimes are jealous and share romantic moments and then lovers. In Chamber of Secret book, Ron found the Courage to go to the forest and face the spiders only after he looked at Hermione’s empty chair, or when he was worried about her health in the third book or when Hermione distracted him from Slytherin’s insult by kissing his cheek.
The movie Version of them was okay but lack of some moments of friendships that were in the books and some romantic scenes were changed.
You must be a masochist
They are hardly 'friends'. They are constantly fighting to the point that Ron is raging and Hermione is crying. It's so toxic.
@@NidaAman-dk1nu Not in the books, there were many scenes of them acting like friends
and in the Movies they put all their fights + added more of them but not to the point of “toxic” believe me as I was in one
@@crackshipsarelife Ron and Hermione were FAR more toxic in the books that in the movies. Believe me, I've read the books about 6 times over, and their rivalry far exceeds their small moments of 'friendship'. The movies show a very watered down version of their fights. I don't understand how you say that they were more friendly in the books when they had a huge fight every book after the chamber of secrets
@@NidaAman-dk1nu we agree to disagree :)
I’ve always found Harry Potter to be such a profoundly dumb series. Books and movies.
That's most movies for you
The movies at least tried
I remember reading the last book and being extremely weirded out at Ron and Hermione being together in the end. Even 13 year old me was able to realize their relationship was written horribly
Agreed that Cho and Harry were the best couple, their romance and how it ended was the most realistic and the best written out of them all.
As soon as jk had to deal with more complicated adult themes like love, politics, and classism, her writing took a dive. Snape alone is a terrible depiction of unrequited love.
Do you think that the folowing posible ships could potentialy work?
Here is my list:
- Harry + Hermione
- Ron + Luna
- Draco + Ginnie
Also it would have been even better if some characters were in different houses, like for example:
- Harry Potter = Slytheryn
- Hermione Gringe = Ravenclaw
- Ron Weasley = Hufflepuff
- Ginnie Weasley = Slytheryn
And if Harry's cousin could also be put in Hogwards, specificaly in Griffindor, then you could have the iconic four friends group, who even thou are in different houses are very close nontheless.
I don't ship Harry/Hermione and Ron is a bully to Luna. But I do admittedly ship Draco/Ginny cuz it gives me silly Lucius and Arthur post canon shenanigans and I do like their fights lol
NO!!!! ESPECIALLY THE HOUSES
How about they do not have any romance in the books and they just find their own way afterward!
I had no idea Ron and Hermione were supposed to like each othet until book 6 when I read them as a child/teen. Soooo. Yeah, not great
It feels like she had no plans for any romance and then 4 books in an editor was like “don’t teenagers date?” And she was like “shit, they do” and had to throw some shit in there. 😂
JKR seems to live in fantasy world tho when it comes to sex before marriage. Her teens can date but apparently no sex before marriage lmao
only thing which sucked was harry and ginny, it was very rushed out of the blue in the books. Ron and Hermione made perfect sense
No, there were plenty of hints for Harry/Ginny, particularly in book 5 when he notices her a lot more and they become good friends.
I cheered all over the Snape part😂❤ Great video :)
You already dunked on it plenty, but the whole relationship with Tonks bothered me alot because shes framed as a cool, fiery queer person, like shes LITERALLY a shapeshifter, huge nonbinary vibes. And then her ultimate fate is to just end up in a mid straight romance with someone who had to be coerced into dating her and then she just becomes house-wife #3791749 like it's personally insulting to me that this character "just had to meet yhe right guy" so that JK Terfling can erase her queer identity and vibes
....
aromantic approved lmao
I've been into hp fanfic for over a decade and there's genuinely not a single canon pairing I like to or ever have liked to read. It's alomst impressive how badly she messed up on the romances
I never liked Ron and Hermione together... it seemed to come out of left field.
Ngl, I completely forgot about Remus and Tonks being a thing until you mentioned it, lmao. Guess I’m too used to WolfStar as a fanship 😂
Well done. Agreed. The problem you identified of JK telling us one thing she wants us to accept while showing us events and details that do not support the narrative she insists we believe actually goes far beyond writing bad romance.
I noticed this serious author issue over 10 years ago while reading the books in college. She has us witness a scene with clear implications morally, psychologically ethically and otherwise, but finds a way to use emotion/aesthetic/atmosphere to TELL us how we are meant to react to it, even if that reaction compromises our own judgement. Essentially forcing us to believe her word as the author not our own reading of her narrative. Dumbledore is a fantastic example. He proves himself dangerous, amoral, and untrustworthy as a caretaker of children from book 1. It only gets worse as the series progresses. But, she uses “do you trust Dumbledore?” And “Dumbledore trusts them” as short-hand to tell us which people are good guys in the book. Rather than letting us observe the behavior of characters to assess ourselves if they are morally admirable. I find this reprehensible since people are treated as literally evil for doubting the word of this incredibly deceptive manipulative secretive character.
The books sort of socially pressure the reader to cheer for characters and outcomes that are suspect. Because you are a bad person if you question it. Interestingly that was the response I got when talking to friends about it. “But I LIKE Dumbledore!” “But I LIKE Ron” “But I relate to Hermione!” As if any of these sentiments determine whether those characters have done something wrong or right.
Rowling mastered this, and trained a generation to overlook facts and events in leu of choosing to side with those who have the most skillful manipulative emotional framing.
I don’t think she intended this. But that’s the problem with Rowling. She is a faulty narrator…and does not intend to be.
But any fan who can do basic critical thinking knows things aren't morally black or grey. Almost every HP character save for the true villains IS somewhat grey.
Albus is grey. Snape is grey. Sirius is grey. Remus is grey. Harry, Ron and Hermione have flaws. They're not perfect people and that's only not obvious to fans who don't pay attention.
But everyone I named above is better than Voldemort or Bellatrix or Umbridge. There's a huge difference.
Another thing I noticed in her writing is something that I like to call "no bad actions, only bad factions".
Morality in the books is solely based on his relation with Harry. And the "good guys" lack any accountability for their actions as they are always justified. Let's take book 2 as an example. Harry and Ron drug Crabbe and Goyle, steal their clothes and lock them up to infiltrate the private space of Malfoy. But hey, that's okay because they were bad guys. It doesn't matter that they haven't ever done something bad in this book apart from standing behind Malfoy when he said something mean. It also doesn't matter that their hunch that Malfoy was behind the incidents turned out to be wrong. Is there an apology? A punishment? Anything? No, nothing at all. The narrative never shows any kind of criticism regarding the protagonists' actions.
@Dhorannis
Oh yeah this is a huge problem. My friend and I actually have a different name for it. Basically it's how the book constantly allows "Gryff in red" to get away with problematic shit while "Slyth in green" are always considered in the wrong.
I like to use the example of when Montague tried to dock points from Gryff so Fred and George pushed him into the broken vanishing cabinet. Montague almost died, the twins face no punishment, but JKR deems it OK because "Gryff in red" get away with everything while "Slyth in green" clearly in the wrong cuz bad 😒
@@l.n.3372 No. Actual well written series have grey characters. Harry Potter's morality is black and white "you're either perfectly good or irredeemably evil."
Growing up I realised i would have left Hogwarts after the battle and never would have looked back ... I wish at least one of the main characters thought "nope, too much trauma, I'm out if here and start somewhere new!" And then they meet someone to fall in love with. Someone who's not attached to Hogwarts, who has their own story and experiences. I've just never been a fan of this microcosmos they all seem to live in, seeing the same faces again and again
Ron and Hermione never worked for me and their romance came out of nowhere with 0 chemistry... I would have loved for Hermione to move on and find happiness somewhere else with someone else.
I've seen people ship Hermione with a fricking Gilderoy Lockhart...
😨🤢🤮
Umm what?
@@adamH.1 Sure… and why not ship Lisa Simpson with the monorail guy?
shes 12 and hes like 40 or something, yeah nothing wrong with this at all expect everything.
Nah what about shipping Tom Felton (draco) and her?? Are they out of their mind just cause he "looks good"???