It's all funny games until Peter gets hit with Scarecrows toxin... Either Peter's spidey sense becomes completely neutralized, and someone shanks him. Or he just loses it.
Spiderman is getting ragdolled. Manbat is so strong plastic man couldn't beat him even made plastic man bleed and strongenoughto almostbreak superman neck,bane can fight mammoth and cheetah , poison ivy can take on wonder woman and swamp thing ,killer croc can tank hits for supergirl even keep up with her,made zod bleed and got punched across the map getting right back up, deathstroke takes on speedsters and the league daily plus the titans gave superman a nose bleed,grundy isn't even a debate,clayface fought etrigan in space same etrigan capable of takin over hell. Anyone who thinks Spiderman stands a chance don't read comics
Spidey: "I gotta admit, Mr. Punctuation. This is some seriously intricate-tech! Love the puzzle-motif!" [A flustered-Riddler blushes heavily. He can't look Spidey in the eye]
Superman: “We’d never plan how we’d stop you.” Batman: “Literally any of you could throw me into the sun. I’m really the only one who needs to have a plan.”
Yeah I never quite understood people faulting Batman for thinking about how to beat the rest. I guarantee you Superman knows how to beat Batman, if he even would need to bother thinking about it.
Imagine Spidey going up against Bane, but most of the fight is Spidey coming to terms with the idea that Venom in this context is a drug that has nothing to do with the Symbiotes.
He just sighs loudly and says, "Oh, thank goodness! You're just on steroids; I thought I was in for a really bad time here!" And then Bane is defeated two panels later.
I can honestly see Spidey playing dumb and "accidentally just kinda stumble across" the answers to Riddlers riddles, just to show an "idiot" could beat the Riddler JUST to piss him off
@@posermatt1293 Riddler: Riddle me this. What gets wetter the more it dries? Spider-Man: Bane. Because when I cut his Venom supply and it spills all over him, he shrivels up real fast. Riddler: That's not right! Why would you even think that!? Spider-Man: The human body is mostly made up of water. Shouldn't someone as smart as you know that?
I saw a discussion about Batman and Spider-Man switching places ince that i always liked. "Spider-Man in Gotham initially creeps the Arkham villains out because he's willing to take and even joke while fighting them. After a while, they get used to it and just find him annoying. ...And then, the Joker does something that crosses a line and they find out how terrifying it is when Spider-Man STOPS talking."
Gotham criminals aren’t scared of a wisecracking hero, they’ve always dealt with robins (especially dick). It’s specifically Batman making jokes because he’d obv never do that. I def see Peter being pushed into dead serious scary mode after finding a bombed kindergarten with kids stitched together tho
It's like that bit where spider-man didn't talk throughout most of the story, which freaked out the criminals to the point that they just gave up....and it turned out that spider-man was just sick and so didn't want to hurt his throat.
I don't remember if it was real or a fan comic, but there was one where Spidey confronts a few of his villains, and is saying nothing, the first two call him out for why he's not talking, and Mysterio just goes "oh no" But it just turns out he has laryngitis, as he softly explains to the cop after turning the villains in, lol
Part of the reason people fear "silent spiderman" is because and if I'm wrong or miss remembering it was either symbiote spidy or another spider person pretending to be spidy that didn't Crack jokes the whole time they were out fighting and they were Brutal almost breaking some one in half I think might be wrong. So Mysterio seeing a silent spidy remembers that day and says " oh....OH!!!" I also think it's an unwritten rule with his rogues that if he isn't cracking jokes it's best to shut up and leave or turn yourself in
@@Onimura123 I think that may be part of it. Someone else summarized it along the lines of "If Spider-Man isn't talking anymore it means that he's now devoting all of his focus towards HURTING you, badly." So that does fit.
In defense of the scene with Killer Croc, the “I threw a rock at him!” That was Batman disguised as Killer Croc. I believe Batman said that because that was the closest out of all those villains stories that he actually came to dying. No thoughts no nothing, just 800 lbs of rock flying at him at 90 miles an hour.
Honestly I'd argue 60's Batman was the source of "prep time" "always prepared" batman, bro just HAD Bat Shark Repellent on him lol. He was ready for anything.
In my oppinion : in a World where Killer Croc and King Shark exists carrying Shark repellant is not crazy prepared, it is common sense and Wayne could finance the Bat just by selling this stuff.
Spider-Man getting super excited by the Riddler's riddles and answering them before he finishes rattling them off... and then spouting off where he's read them before in full strength nerd talk, making Riddler very confused and conflicted, because, like... c'mon, it's cool he knows, but don't step on a guy's line, y'know?
"Yeah Riddler, I love riddles, I do them in my free time!" "....me too." "We should write riddles for each other! Only rule is no hurting innocents" "Yeah... ok" Bam rehabilitated Riddler
@@Dhxgdbdhhxhdjdj Well, yes and no. Edward's key character trait is his narcissism, that is true, he has to be the smartest man in the room. But it is also clear that the man has a clear passion for puzzles. The narcissism does and will always come first though.
The fact that all of Batman's villains are dark reflections of him would make Spider-Man fights bizarrely amusing. "You might as well FACE it: my half-twisted visage is just a reflection of the two lives you try to lead made manifest! We're not so different, you and I!" "Wait, so which half of your face is a wisecracking do-gooder secretly weighed down by his sense of responsibility, and which half is a luckless, self-sabotaging shlub weighed down by his sense of responsibility?" "That's not really what I-" "I just remembered I don't care. One for you..." *thwip* "And one for you." *thwip* "Bye!" "Hey! Nhh! Let me- GET BACK HERE! ... I didn't even get to flip the coin..."
Perfect, All I could possibly add is- Thwips the eyes, then asks wether they have a mouth or mouths. Before the last joke the coin is knocked down a grate or drain.
His confrontation with the Scarecrow would be hilarious. "You see Spider-Man, I am but a dark reflection of the terror you could instill in villains if you just stopped your YAPPING!!!" "...was this whole scheme a drawn out way to try and get me to shut up?"
@@archivist_13 i think scarecrow would probably be BY FAR the biggest threat to spiderman. his scare gas would do some really heavy shit to peter. on the other hand, scarecrow would probably end up as a 1 time villain, since he would be so brutalized by a peter, that he would never dare to try and create another spiderman that doesnt hold back... as a side note, i have said this before, but all the batman villains would probably be far easier for peter to deal with, since his version of those villains (kingpin/penguin, bane/rhino, the lizard/croc) are far more dangerous and cunning than batman's. bane would prbably be a massive joke, since nothing he could do would be a threat to peter. hell, its so onesided, that if bane tried to break peter's back, he would just complain that bane is the worst chiropractor he has ever met, since he couldnt even hit the spot right. before ripping bane's tubes, developing a cure, and administrating it to him to stop the effect of the drug.
@@marcosdhelenoWell there's two variations of Bane. One being the dumb hulk like brute who crushes everything. That sort of depiction of the character would be a "So same fight again next Tuesday?" type villain. But the other few depictions where he is portrayed to be a genuinely cunning and smart tactician, yea I can see that one being a rather big threat to Spidey. Like in Arkham Origins where he single-handedly found Bat's identity and raided the batcave. Bane could serve as Kingpin 2, but a lot more ruthless and dangerous because instead of a mobster, he's an entire terrorist organisation.
@@Toph_Not_E-Bender Hottest take, hear me out...both. Spider man assumes he's a villain and keeps trying to fight him and batman figures out he's a hero and young and slowly starts trying to adopt him
can you imagine bane trying to break spiderman's back? bane: now i have broken the spider" peter: dude you are the worst chiropractor i have ever met, you didnt even hit the right spot! try again a bit lower next time."
@TheDCbiz Ultimate Kingpin did that, but didn't ask. He just trademarked Spider-Man and made it so everything that had Spider-Mans face on it, brought the Kingpin income. The more Spider-Man stopped crime, the more popular he gets, more popular he gets more merch is sold, more merch is sold, more money going to Kingpins criminal empire.
@@Thed538dhsk The ultimate line. Idk the issue number anymore. I was in middle school and elementary as Ultimate Spider-Man ran. Not the new Ultimate line obviously. I'm taking the 2000s Ultimate Spider-Man.
There was a Batman/Punisher crossover comic where Bruce has to save the Joker from getting shot in a random alleyway by Frank. Only time I can think of in the comics where Joker was scared of anything, like his only fear is being killed in an inglorious manner by someone who barely knows who he is and will forget him a few days later.
Also we’re not asking the right questions here. How would they react to each other’s CITIZENS. I for one think it’s wholesome and funny. Exhibit A: Jonah Jameson insults Batman, Bruce buys the news company. Exhibit B: Spider-Man encounters the citizens who at least appreciate his efforts, and Spidey for the first time in his life is not treated even remotely as garbage as he’s usually treated, becomes best friends with commissioner Gordon.
When you put it this way, Batman & Spider-Man in many ways mirror each other; Batman has no powers but is super-rich; Spidey has powers, but perpetually has money issues. Both have psychotic agents of chaos as arch-nemeses; both have cat burglar GFs and so on.
Both have a brute villain that destroyed them (Kraven & Bane), and they both have archnemesis that are narcissistic as hell making them want to humiliate the hero (Mysterio & Riddler).
My headcanon with why Venom ran from Spidey with a lit newspaper is because he fell for a bluff. In Venom's mind, that _can't_ be Spider-Man's whole plan. There *has* to be something more to it.
There is a story where Peter gets tired of his villains BS and designs a suit specifically to counter all of the Six Sinisters at the same time, and then he does that. If Bats can have prep-time, so does Spidey.
On that note, outside of Peter being just as smart or even smarter than Bruce, he is also a master of improvising. Many inventions he makes to takedown his villains early on are usually hastily thrown together from spare parts or on a budget.
@@spacevagabond4017a thing that bothers me is we dont speak on peoples area of expertise, and only focus on who’s smartest which isnt as important. Peter = material science genius Stark = weapons Reed = exotic sciences Ect
Finally for around to this, there is a moment in the DC vs Marvel crossover comics storyline where Spidy met the Joker, and Joker constantly put off Spidy's spider-sense and Joker had a feeling not to mess with the guy. It was...weird but also fun to watch the two just quip with each other in a non-serious manner.
There's also a fan comic where Joker goes to New York City and tries to terrorize Spider-Man, only to have Spider-Man start talking about all the shit he's been through (Gwen Stacy dying on the very same bridge that Joker is standing on, the events of One More Day, everyone in the city hating him, Peter having basically no money, all of his loved ones being constantly attacked or dying, and all of this before he even hit 40, etc.), and Joker just completely stops being a villain, starts questioning his own "One Bad Day" philosophy about anyone being able to be driven insane like him, and when Batman shows up, Joker just demands that Batman help Spider-Man out as much as possible.
Imagine Spidey helping Victor cure Nora and then Victor redeems himself as a hero, leading to a confused Batman returning home to see Mister Freeze in the Justice League.
It's the most absurd break in character that Batman never just... pays for Victors research. He'd get a villain off the streets and get a supergenius to design tech and medical wonders.
Many times I’m pretty sure Nora is dead, or thought to be, and Mr freeze is just taking revenge on the people responsible. Batman does often try to atleast help him with his condition, as far as I know
@@aidengray3998 He's helped freeze in different iterations? Freeze is just extraordinarily resistant to outside help because what caused his condition was someone taking his work away from him, which lead to an accident. There's also iterations where his wife is cured and dies so he just lashes out at the world, or the woman he's trying to "cure" isn't even his wife, it's just some woman he froze and has deluded himself into thinking it's Nora
@@KotalaGod Literally just mail him wads of cash and most of his villainy goes away, and he's still building medical wonders. Yeah, in some stories he's flat out evil, but those are the boring incarnations.
Lets not sleep on Mysterio. Man managed to make illusions that trick freaking daredevil and wolverine, Bruce is just fighting the better trickster with more showmanship
Mysterio enters daredevils life one time and he leaves him with severe Trauma,the guy has also invented gasses strong enough to muffle Spider-Mans senses
Dude was such a good illusionist that Norman thought he was banging Gwen Stacy. Heck, Peter thought he was getting cucked as well; But that was all Mysterio baby.
@@Thed538dhsk Heres what i think. Scarecrow goes specifically for his victims' fear with a toxin, and batman made an antidote and has almost nothing he's scared of, while mysterio uses technology that can't be permanently disabled with an antidote like in some stories, so in a fight Mysterio would win against batman more times than scarecrow agaist batman
I also like to factor that Spiderman's villains are genuinely much more comfortable teaming up than Batman's are. Sure, they are still vulnerable to being manipulated into fighting each other, but Batman's rouges gallery is far more willing to turn on each other. Sure, it's not impossible for Batman's villain's to gang up, but you always hear about a sinister six, never a collection of villains from Batman So while Spiderman is taking down various villains who are just doing one big plan by themselves, Batman has to deal with all their talents at the same time
The issue with Batman’s rogues gallery, is that for the most part they show up and wreak havoc alone. This is almost always the case for the first encounter. Otherwise you have two other situations, it’s a duo or trio teamup, or it’s a city takeover. And in those situations you always seem to get factions of villains, you always have the solos taking advantage of the chaos, you have the main threat, and then you have the supporters. Best example of this is the long Halloween, basically every single villain is on the loose, but only a handful are actually working together. And usually they are the ones that mesh well, scarecrow and ivy, joker and riddler, penguin and catwoman. But for the most part it’s going to be duos working together, usually a mastermind, like penguin, two face, or joker, and a meta human, like Ivy, croc, bane, etc. Outside of the 5 main ones, spideys rogues don’t really work together.
@@klo1679 wasnt bane the mastermind in his most important story? also, while that's true, most of those villains wouldnt offer much of a challenge against peter. the penguin and 2 face for example would end up as c level. maybe the penguin could become a b level. but he isnt anywhere near someone like fisk. so i really doubt he would. croc would be a dumber version of the lizard, which means, a downgrade in threat level. cat woman would also be nowhere near someone like black cat. overall, batman would have a much bigger issue with peter's villains, than peter would with bruce's. the most dangerous would probably be the scarecrow, depending on how the gas affects him. but peter would probably get so pissed off, scarecrow would only use his gas on him ONCE. also, the fact peter faces multiples of his villains at the same time, while batman is often helped by his companions make's a huge diference. as in, peter would take longer to resolve a situation, than bruce. so bigger casualities. so there's that. ironically enough, i feel like, bruce would mesh well with the fantastic four and the avengers. while peter would probably be overlooked when it comes to joining the JLA.
@@RaphDeGrate I mean Peter still is intellectually superior to a plethora of characters in the League, the setback here is that he's semi-permanently broke and doesn't have much connections, if given the chance I feel like he would be on the level of someone like Mr. Terrific for example. But yeah, this is a long-winded way to say I agree, JLA would 100% overlook my guy.
@@klo1679 A lot of Spidey rogues are basically hired guns. Nearly everyone you could mention has been a part of at least one villain team. Even the freaking Lizard!
Spider-man vs Joker effectively becomes less order vs chaos and it become who two stand-up comic trying to get the best one liner to get the rise out of the other.
I think it'd still be a very interesting fight. It could go that way, and Spidey easily outwits and outmaneuvers Joker, but Joker has a great time laughing at Spiderman's jokes. That's a good one-shot, but then Joker eventually brings up his "one bad day" philosophy and Peter explains that that's simply not so. The Joker's mentally ill, and Peter genuinely wants to help. That's fun. But it's only one way it could go. Or, Spiderman whip's Joker's ass in a physical, mental, and comedic contest, and it turns out Joker hates losing. Hates being the butt of the joke. Joker's a maniac with an ego, and he wants to lash out. He wants to have the last laugh. And he refuses to accept that Peter can't be broken, because if one bad day isn't all it takes....then Joker is weak. Peter's existence says that Joker should have gotten back up and tried again. And the Joker absolutely can't accept that. What does Peter do here? Beat him up and have the police throw him in jail? We already know that doesn't work. Peter might still want to help the Joker, but he doesn't have resources, and he doesn't have Arkham. He just has himself, and what if he can't get through before Joker hurts someone? What if he can't get through at all? What does the Joker do? Well, he isn't stupid. He knows that Peter has lost people before, and it didn't break him. But he also thinks that Peter could snap. When Peter beat the crap out of Kingpin, he was getting revenge on someone who crossed a line. But if Joker pulled that same thing...he'd be laughing. He'd be gloating in victory. There's also just the chance that the Joker sets up bombs or gas -- Spiderman doesn't really have the tools or resources to stop that. They could end up in a loop where Joker kills a dozen people, gets beat up and jailed, escapes and kills a thousand people, gets beat up and jailed. What does Peter do when he reaches out to the Joker with empathy, tries to help him, shares a little bit of his own trauma and how he got back up....and then Joker uses that information to hurt him. There's a lot of dynamics to play with. It'd be interesting to see a dozen writers all do their own "What if" -- I think Spiderman wins and it's a fun time in seven of them, Spiderman stops joker but it's not a moral victory in three, and Joker wins (by his own standards) in the last two.
The best Spider-Man vs The Joker fight was done in Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker when Terry actually decided to laugh at the Joker and run his smart mouth at him.
I will always say Joker will really hate Spider-Man, maybe even more than Bats because of two reasons: 1. Peter, no matter what version, will ALWAYS be funnier than Joker. Joker's ego can't stand for being a punchline punching bag, look at what happened with Terry. 2. Peter being Spider-Man is the biggest sledgehammer at The Joker's "One Bad Day" philosophy. Peter pretty much has bad days on the regular with the two standing out being Uncle Ben and Gwen's death. Even after everything, he will somehow someway always try to do the right thing; even if he gets nothing from it.
There is also the fact that Peter KNOWS when to drop the Spider-Man act and be just Peter Parker. If Joker even hints at threatening May or MJ, that's it. PETER PARKER is fighting the Joker, not spider-man
@@pyrotechnic1818 Yeah and ugh...Joker would still get wreck. Not even the Joker kill switch is stopping Peter from insulting Joker in a cathartic, comical, and dangerous way.
dude i said this before, bane would end up as a c tier villain. he would become a bigger joke than the rhino, and god forbid he tries to pull that knightfall bullshite on him. i can already picture it, peter just standing still as bane throws a punch, and breaks his hand on peter's jaw, with peter just there, imobile, looking at him without saying a word. lets be honest, no matter how tiered from fighting peter would be, if bane even touched a loved one of his, it would be bane who would end up with a broken back.
@robertlombardo8437 more like Peter tries to save Bane from Venom... (Bane is my favorite DC villain, but canon Bane is punching bag in Marvel world). That's why I prefer to imagine that if Bane appeared in Marvel, he would try to improve venom drug with... Hulk's blood, for example.
Kraven vs Batman is honestly perfect. Partly because Kraven is Bruce’s senior by a few decades. I could see Bruce having trained under Kraven as part of his mission to become Gotham’s savior, learning how to track and hunt from him. Then Kraven comes to Gotham to hunt all the interesting game in the city. Killer Croc, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy, etc. The funniest scenario born of this is that Kraven and Ras are actually acquaintances and have monthly chess matches. Ras once tried to question Kraven about immortality to see if Kraven would ever try and use one of his Lazarus Pits, and Kraven stated something along the lines of: “I have no interest in extending *this* life. I have lived my life by the hunt. And I await the day it claims me.”
Yeah, this whole video just makes me want to see Batman VS Kraven. And also Batman VS Mysterio. Annnnnd Spider-Man science-ing it out with Mr. Freeze. I...dammit, somebody go start writing some fanfics!
Another interesting thing is that the Kraven family has a thing where they deal with Legacies. Sometimes a son of Kraven will take the mantel, and the look, and try to succeed their father. Then said father returns and takes back the mantle. I can see Kraven’s children fighting other members of the Batfamily as a right of passage
I agree with Gramuglia that Kraven and Batman are very similar, and almost funhouse mirror images of each other. But there are 3 key differences, Gramuglia mentioned some but I think he missed two I find important, though I think others have brought up to some degree. Kraven is a Hunter where Batman is a Detective. Kraven is willing to Kill where Batman is not and strives his hardest to not kill. But here's another important one - Kraven is seeking a good death against a great adversary, he has a death wish, and Batman does not. Those latter two points are what I think make Kraven especially dangerous for Batman.
Yeah you hit the nail on the head with the "prep time" myth. Prep time is how comic books are structured (hell, its how most stories of heroes defeating villains is structured) Villain shows up, defeats hero, evades them, outwits them, in some way gets the upper hand. Hero goes back to drawing board, thinks about how they need to approach this villain. Maybe the villain is unrelenting and they have to stall for time and drag out a fight so they can think. Ultimately, hero outsmarts and defeats villain. Spidey does it, Superman does it, every hero in comics does it.
Most of Spider-Man's villains don't have anything super, mostly technology or highly intelligent, which is where Batman excels. He has Wayne Enterprises and is considered the second smartest human on Earth. The ones who have powers are pretty easy to defeat (yes, they are, and don't pull on me with these absurd feats without addressing the consistency as stories have inconsistencies as many heroes and villains showed up illogical feats or feats that don't align with their story consistency or have temporary power-ups, or in certain cases, that's just plot armor or giving a feat without giving the context so no, Rhino can't even rival Hulk and Batman can easily avoid Electro's magnetism by using metals that can't be magnetized(like titanium which he actually shown or stated that he use it sometimes). Sandman, as much as his power should be terrifying, he gets defeated pretty easily. And Carnage or Venom's evolutionary adaptation for fire and sound isn't a common occurrence, or in certain cases, and no, we don 't include the temporary power-ups they get. And even if we include their evolutionary adaptations, what makes you think he can't take a sample of them and make a poison for them that completely ends them?) For Rhino, he can just fight him the same way he fought Killer Croc and Solomon Grundy. For Kingpin again, he defeated the likes of Solomon Grundy and Killer Croc, and the others are oblivious. Kingpin, even with his combat skills, is nothing compared to Batman, who has fought mafias before (Penguin, Black Mask, Two-Face, White Shark, and Falcone family crime organizations and many, many mobs, gangs, and mafias. Hell, Gotham is an infestation for organized crime). For Kraven, Batman has fought and trained with the strongest assassins and martial artists in his universe. Kraven is nothing. And finally, Sandman has a very exploitable weakness that doesn't even need prep time or his detective skills to know about. Also, Morlun doesn't just feed on anyone that takes an animal as his totem, it isn't just about that. Spider-Man's case is unique and has mystical/cosmic connections according to Spider-Man mythos as the inheritors feed on totemic avatars and gods (and no, that's not the case with Batman and Barbatos especially since the claims and narration in Dark Nights: Metal are by unreliable characters). Also, the thing Spider-Man did to him wasn't by prep-time (except if you're gonna make it have a broad definition). What Spider-Man did, or what happened to Spider-Man more correctly, is that he was lucky to have the weakness appear in front of him. It was a situational thing, not by planning. Also, what most people (even some of his fans) don't understand about Batman is it's not the prep-time, but it's Batman's intelligence and capability because by that logic any hero or a villain when given prep-time is a god, but that's not how it is because everyone has prep-time, heroes or villains, because as you said prep-time is how comic books are structured, not just comic books but all stories, and Batman's villains also use prep-time all the time and don't give Batman enough prep-time as they always plan for him but he defeats them with his intelligence. It's popular with Batman because he is a special case as he is the second smartest human on Earth and the best master strategist and the greatest detective. Like, did any of you guys read his comics? Also, there's no definitive answer in the comics themselves about whether Superman was holding back while mind-controlled by Poison Ivy or is it because Ivy didn't want them to die but to capture him or was it a part of Hush's plan or it's just a plot hole because there is no explicit clarification in Batman: Hush comic. Also, Batman defeated the entire Justice League and they weren't holding back in Scott Snyder's run of Batman in Endgame arc where the Justice League is intoxicated by Joker gas and it's explicitly stated that Superman wasn't holding back. The writer tried to make Batman win as a draw by making Batman saying that neither of them will win even though it was a clear win for Batman and that's why you shouldn't take the writer as the one who can end or answer the debate because he can just be wrong or doesn't understand what he implies by the events he makes. So depending on the writer is just braindead appeal to authority fallacy and completely ignores the concept of the death of the author.
@@newmobils8294 that is a lot of words and not a single period. Also it seems to have nothing to do with my comment, but I only skimmed that three sentence mess.
Assuming they’re just isekai-ed into each other’s world, no way Batman would let himself be known until he had his proper amount of prep time for spider-man’s New York.
I feel like that assumes a version of batman who is willing to let innocent people die that he could have saved just so he can prepare for the heavy hitters of the city.
What would really unnerve the Joker is that Peter Parker also had a bad day… and as a result he became Spider Man, a hero who serves his city despite being ridiculed and punished for it constantly.
So did Batman for that matter. What would break joker in that is that Spider-Man has had so many bad days, and in general has a miserable life. For all of the bad Batman has gone through, he still has a decent life.
@@raenkord7881 Imagine If everything bad that has happened to Peter in multiple versions happaned to one Peter. And that Peter is still Spidey who tells Joker about his bad days. Joker would just short curcuit from not understanding how Spidey is still the good guy
Batman vs Kraven would feel much like Batman vs Shredder. Two warriors that easily acknowledge each other's skill, and immediately see each other as a tool to sharpen their own skills.
A tale of two batmen. The first is Gotham batman you know the detective the man we all know and love. Then you have the justice league batman. Which is leagues above the other batman. He has fought planetary threats literal Gods and became a God. Base justice league batman can take on parrademons you know the apocalypse monsters that rip concrete apart like its made of wet paper. No preparation for that batman. But base Gotham batman yeah not getting much done even with preparation.
Not really since most of their villains are similar: 1. Black cat vs catwoman 2. Lizard vs killer croc 3. Venom vs bane 4. Green goblin vs joker 5. Kingpin vs penguin 6. Doc Ock vs riddler 7. Sandman vs clayface 8. Vulture vs firefly 9. Shocker vs Mr freeze kinda 10. Mysterio vs scarecrow
There is a comic called "Batman: Venom" (ironically) where Bats uses a modified version of the venom Bane uses. It gives better strength but starts to damage his mind and codes, in the end Batman stops using this venom after he realizes what's happening to him. I believe a story with the symbiote would be similar
@@joeda900I’m sure somewhere, deep in his mind, he still shutters when he sees it. Just an involuntary reflex. It doesn’t affect his day to day life nor his ability to be a hero… but when he goes to sleep at night, his dreams turn to nightmares of a yellow hellscape that he cannot escape until the morning comes and he wakes up.
@@thepsychicspoon5984 there is a difference, Batman rule is set in stone and he would never kill of his own free will Spiderman however will Kill , or try to if Pushed far enough or he sees no other options, but will Hate having to have done so,
@@milesedgeworth3667 I disagree. There IS a difference, and it's Morals. Batman has the 'Rule', because he is always tempted and has to remind himself, all the time, constantly "Don't break the 1 rule". But Spiderman doesn't have a rule, because he doesn't NEED a rule. Killing someone NEVER Crosses his mind at all. He never needs to remind himself to NOT kill, cause he is morally BETTER than Batman who needs to constantly remind himself.
I kinda assume the no kill rule only existed so that they don't kill popular villans and use them for many stories or in the case of animated series, to stay PG and kid friendly. The films in the other hand can kill because they can always change the actors and make movies with different and clear countinuities. Plus they don't use the same villan for the sequel most of the time since they know they had to pay the villan actor more money next time so it's better to have a new villan[there are acceptions]
Honestly, a lot of Batman and Spider-Man villains have the same gimmicks. -a cat-themed burglar with a love-connection to the hero -a large, strong character with a personal grudge against the hero and some level of dependancy on what gives them their strength -a form shifting villain that used to be purely human before an accident turned them into a monster -a mentally unstable villain that acts as the main villain of the hero. -a reptilian villain -a villain based around illusions and misdirections
@@CodoNamus I know, and I agree. My comment was rhetorical, but it's nice to see another well-read commenter reach the same conclusions I did. Thank you!
People need to remember that the final part of Batman's Beat Superman Plan in TDK was 'fake a massive heart attack before Superman gets his second wind'
@Rengokuo4o6 "I didn't have to go easy, a binding agent a stronger mix. No, I just needed to remind you to *stay out of my way.* in all the years to come, in your most private moments, I want yoy to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember *the one man who beat you*"
The fact that people are having more fun imagining how this villain switch would create funny/interesting interactions instead of how 'cool' the heroes are to be able to beat them really proves your point at the end.
The greatest thing about batman and spiderman is that their rogues galleries are hands down better than other heroes that they didn't need crossovers as much as other heroes do. I could sit down and watch either hero in their own pocket universe and enjoy them in their own, jn fact I miss them being on their own sometimes...
@@johnnybeatmaker330 My only gripe with Flash is that usually all of his rogues recently have been made Speedsters, it's OK when they are on Boomerang's level in which they aren't Speedster but are Speed-force sensitive which explains why they can hurt or even counter flash when he comes real close.
Spider-Man and Batman are both street level heroes and that's what makes them special. They don't need to go to space and do multiverse to give a good movie.
@ravenovf7817 rember venom is only bad because a little bit of the host will always be in venom. Batmans got some real mental problems going he's definitely gonna make venom worse.
@ravenovf7817 Yeah, and then he would blame venom and fail to understand that it's not really venoms fault. it's just a victim of trauma that people make into to a monster. Venom would be a very poetic batman fo but the best are.
Killer Croc: "I threw a rock at him!" Spider-Man: "Good for you buddy. Proud of you." Killer Croc: "...it was a big rock." Spider-Man: "I believe yo...wait, how big are we talkin' here?"
That was also batman disguised as killer croc. Implying that batman either thought that was how croc acted, or that was actually what gave him a run for his money.
@@KaijuKinnieI'm choosing to believe that Batman was being honest. Like everyone is sharing their stories how they almost killed the Bat, but the only time he was scared was when Croc threw a rock at him.
@@isaiahkayode6526 Gotham is ruthless. Spider-Man would die in DC, even if he could handle Batman's villains. The Joker and those guys wouldn't respect or care about Spider-Man. The public are more harsh because the place isn't as nice. He'd be treated like a huge clown. Gotham would only respect someone like Omni man.
@@TheTyroofToriyama since when did villains in New york respect or care about Spider-man? and since when did New york not treat spiderman like a clown?
Don't think he'd appreciate the constant rain but it would give him some good practice in bad weather fights and an excuse for a new Gotham styled waterproof suit
I think the story of Spidey being dropped in Gotham goes as follows: Spidey is up day and night, saving people with 0 rest. He hears whispers of bigger bads, who have become careful about their operations due to Spideys appearance. He stumbles onto something bigger, after a couple weeks of ceasless activity. That will be when he falls into 1 of the villains, who has been planning for a while, traps. They're trap would be mostly successful but he gets away. Not without suffering a beating. He is forced to actually rest. He puts his day in day out activities on a brief hold to formulate a plan to deal with the much greater threat. The next time they meet goes heavily in Spider-Man's favor. Thats the intro story imo.
Spidey getting overwhelmed by Scarecrow's toxin would be super interesting to see, but sadly, something that would only work once. Meanwhile, I would love to see an entire series where Peter and Bruce switched universes. To see Batman struggle against Spider-Man's heaviest hitters and just barely winning would be a phenomenal story.
Batman versus the Sinister Six would be the end of Batman. There is no way even with prep time he could "magic bullet" his way through six supervillains at once that consistently beat Spiderman when they work together. Unless, of course, the story is about how Batman unravels the plot and in turn figures out a way to beat them individually or force them to turn on one another.
@@jodinsan Yeah, no, Batman loses that fight EASILY. But seeing him uses his mind to defeat them, instead of his fighting skills, would be such a fun read.
@@jodinsan I would imagine Batman`s first fight with S6 would be in the first half of the story, ending with him fleeing and hiding from them for a time. Then the rest of the story is Batman unraveling their secret plot and carefully dismantling it, probably while confronting the weakest of the S6 on their own. Then in the final showdown, Batman uses his intel on the villains to make the them fight each other while sabotaging their plan. In other words that would`ve been an amazing underdog story for Batman.
Refusing to answer the Riddler's riddle's will probably result in someone dying though. Batman doesn't like answering them either, but he does because it's how he stops Riddler's bombs or rescues his hostages.
@@Thed538dhsk Not really? Doc Ock is essentially a cyborg, Riddler is just a guy. Doc Ock is a nuclear physicist and roboticist; Riddler is has some scientific and engineering skill but he's primarily a logic and trivia guy. Ock is a megalomaniac who wants to accumulate money and power; Riddler is mostly out to prove he is smarter than everyone else. Ock is short and pudgy, Riddler is average sized and lean. I'd say Ock is closer to the Penguin- a short, ugly genius who wants to be respected and is widely considered the "second arch-enemy" of his superhero; Riddler doesn't really have a neat equivalent in the Spider-rogues gallery although you could argue he's closer to Mysterio than Scarecrow is in terms of role, goals and motivations.
@@jonathancampbell5231 i disagree. Riddler is the intellectual foil to Batman. Doc Ock is the intellectual foil to spiderman. To defeat each villian typically both heroes must outsmart their villains not brute strength or combat. Yes octavius is a cyborg but in goals he also tries to outsmart or thinks he's outsmarted Spiderman. Penguins motivations imo fit more along the lines of kingpin. But yes technically Batman and Spiderman share no exact riddler or doc Ock comparisons im just comparing how they are foils for our heroes. Technically being a cyborg for superman metallo would more resemble Superman's doc Ock but as a foil lex Luther typically fits that role. I view it as who resembles the same foils to the heroes
I dunno. I think one can argue that Peter would be capable of outsmarting some of Riddler’s schemes without defeating the riddle. The real funny part would be if Spider-man nonchalantly answers a riddle instantly.
I really want Spiderman to help Mister Freeze, that alone would be a touching story for me. Cause we all know freeze is one of the most sympathetic villain
Agreed. I honestly feel that if Freeze was able to accomplish his goal in rescuing his wife. He would immediately change his ways and become a heroic character after that.
@@XRioteerXBoyXI'd Read a whole Comic Series of these two trying and succeeding, and then a Freeze who changes his ways. His wife Safe and Unfrozen, now he's turned over a new leaf.
Batman tried to help freeze. Freeze is an ass and betrays batman so spiderman wouldnt be able to either. Also with all the crap batman makes its funny to say that spiderman is a better scientist
But Fries’ first impression of Spidey would be absolutely horrible, because of all the ice puns, and that would delay the two working together (which, let’s be real here, the two would need to co-operate to make real progress) by quite a long time
@@jacobellis2313 I mean, he probably is the better scientist. The problem is that batman can and will just outsource the solution if he can't come up with it himself. A large quantity of the items batman uses aren't entirely designed by him, just modified or applied differently
12:00 I don't think spidey would ignore the Riddler's riddles, but intentionally get them wrong he's canonically bad at riddles and usually finds a way around them or overanalyzes them to the point riddler would have to give him the answer. So same problem as the joker
Or Peter is always on his phone whenever Riddler give him a Riddle and Riddler thanks he’s cheating and looking up the answers when he gets them right and then Riddler looks at the camera and see he’s just on Reddit or something like that so he’s getting all the answers correct while not paying attention
The more interesting situation of swapping their Villains is keeping the core of the characters Say we give batman enough tech to keep up with spider-man's foes How much would peter sacrifice to save the broken people of Gotham? How would his sense of responsibility work in such a broken city And at the same time. kraven, goblin, carnage, they would make batman struggle mentally far more than joker ever could, imagine kraven trying more and more to force the legendary bat to kill him, unable to bring himself to kill such a perfect hunt but desperate to die at his hands Norman would be playing chess with bruce, every fight, every failure of the goblin, just a way to give Norman more information on how to exploit the bat as bruce has to outwit these background plans with his own Kingpin and octavious would both be using every other criminal to find a weakness an exploit, kingpin in particular using overwhelming numbers as bruce needs to either stop each crime and risk falling into the trap or go for the force and risk facing someone who is as strong as bane and knows every legal excuse imaginable to turn any action the bat takes against him Batman would have to deal with so many mind games in order to keep his principles without these foes exploiting them While spider-man would have to work harder than ever to live up to this new responsibility of such a broken city The swap would risk breaking both of them mentally, yet they may both have the better tools to help these new foes than they did against their own and these two ideas make the swap truly interesting
Kind of curious how the cities would think of them too. Spidey is kind and visible and, well the "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" while Batman tries to be a terror to villains How would the people of Gotham take to Spidey's light personality, or New York with Bat's dark one?
pretty much, let alone how he is used to fighting most of them at the same time. the fact almost every batman villain can be considered a downgrade from a spiderman villain(in terms of power) is enough to make him not have to worry. bane would basically end up at a worst place than the rhino, since he would be far easier for peter to deal with. and god forbid if bane even thinks of hurting one of spiderman's loved ones in his version of knightfall. bane would be the one with his back broken. hell i can even imagine peter just standing still imobile, as bane throws a punch and breaks his hand. with peter just looking at him without saying a word. yeah, dude would go back to wherever crawlhole he came from pretty quick after that.
@@ValeTheOwl batman would die to green goblin in five minutes. Rhino wouldn't just bane him, he'd rip the man in half. SHOCKER would be a major struggle. Objectively speaking, much of Peter's enemies are just more dangerous versions of Batmans. And he already struggles.
@@mutilator97 Batman can take on the entire Justice League at once and win, so there is no way he would be defeated by the likes of GG, Rhino or Shocker. The thing is that Batman keeps himself willfully weak in order to avoid an escalation of power and keep collateral damage (and therefore civilian casualties) to a minimum, but he already has several Iron Man-tier Batsuits in his arsenal, like the Batman Beyond suit or the Justice Buster. If all that is required to take down Spiderman's villains is bigger guns, he has them and then some. If anything it's Peter that would struggle more, because a LOT of Gotham villains are not mindless brutes like Rhino. They don't show themselves in the open, they organize and plot in the shadow and require detective skills to be found out. And while Spiderman is very, VERY smart himself, Batman actually outclass him by several magnitudes when it comes to detective work.
@@dtl2405 Spider-Man is so great at stealth, that not even Daredevil has been able to notice him. He's also snuck around military bases undetected with ease. Yes, Batman is stealthy too, but Spider-Man is even better.
@@jacobellis2313 You're really underestimating Spider-man's Spider sense if that's your counter-argument to the original commentor. Spider sense is so broken that it can detect evil intentions. The fact that Spidey's villains were able to find a way to sneak up on Spidey is a testament to their brilliance and terrifying capabilities. If you put them against Batman, Batman suddenly becomes a sticking nail on concrete. Spider sense unintentionally helped Spidey's villains to become terrifyingly good at stealth.
I love where this conversation ends up at the end and how the earlier villain comparison frames it. Batman's villains are weaker for a reason, and Spider-Man's villains are stronger for a reason. Batman needs to have relatively easy to defeat villains because the crux of his stories is figuring out what, how, and sometimes even who they are, AND the emotional turmoil they cause in bats because of his code, guilt, etc. Meanwhile with Spider-Man, the interesting part is facing adversities head on, and pushing through even when the odds are clearly stacked against him. Spider-Man is about inexperience and growth, always facing a new and bigger challenge than before, and growing in some way to solve it. Batman is more about the emotional journey of how the crimes and the people effect Bats, while Spidey is more about the emotional journey of the solution. Batman's villains make him feel, and Spidey's villains make him grow. Therefore Batman's villains don't need to increase in power because they can always effect Batman emotionally in different ways, while Spidey will always need his villains to have a new trick or higher strength to have a Spidey story where he learns something new and changes.
"Do you think I would risk the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with you?" I don't think most would choose to risk their victory conditions on hand to hand combat.
Yeah, the closest thing to Spidey's personality in DC, is the Flash, who often gifts his villains things during holidays. There's a reason Flash held the league together morally
@@kellyevans3254 Well it's not just a power thing, it's also an outlook thing and morality thing. Batman is primarily an enforcer of the law, he stops crimes, chaos and things that don't follow his morale code. Spiderman helps people, he doesn't focus on stopping rules from being broken but rather on stopping people from getting harmed. In practice these can often ovrlap but with characters like catwoman the dynamic would be very different.
@@georgekatkus5162well that and the fact that flash's main villains generally have a rule against killing innocent's or speedsters. They're not always irredeemable monsters, unlike 90% of Batman's villains
@@CyberBlastoise Debatable. Scorpion was created to match or surpass Peter back when he was a teenager. It's canon that Peter has gotten stronger since then, both from getting older and just physically maturing, but also how much he fights and pushes his powers, compared to Scorpion who just...doesn't really. It's not unthinkable that Scorpion hasn't gotten any stronger since he became Scorpion, while Peter has.
On your topic about Batman driving a tank: I'd agree that it's generally a mistake to hand Batman a ton of firepower. Basically, a lot of what makes Batman cool is his ability to use strategy to win despite not having a lot of power. So handing him super weapons kind of misses the point, at least if you're not careful.
Spidey not only has the brains to easily keep up with any Batman villain, he also has the power to dominate any of them, even the likes of Bane or Killer Croc. Meanwhile, in a straight-up fight, Batman is getting ripped to shreds by any Spider-Man rogue without significant prep time. Joker specifically would consider Spider-Man to be an absolute nightmare, because he's both funnier than the Joker (something that completely sets Joker off) and because his entire life is proof that Joker's philosophy that one bad enough day can turn anybody as crazy as him is entirely wrong. Spidey's life is nothing but bad days, and it hasn't broken him.
didn't spider-man basically throw his whole life away when his aunt died once? and another time he nearly became a killer over it too spider-man has an exploitable emotional side, I wouldn't put it past the joker to find a way to mess with him just for fun and out of spite
I always hate it when people say meeting Spider-Man would break Joker’s “one bad day” philosophy. Jason Todd’s life has been nothing but bad days and he is still fundamentally good, working to help people. He just does it like a spy, taking out threats before they can kill anyone else. Spider-Man is great, but you don’t need a crossover to break “one bad day”. Joker is desperately clinging on to that excuse, but he doesn’t really believe it. He doesn’t need to, excuses are for other people to hear.
Batman against Spidey villains: this is why I have a no meta rule in Gotham (still beats the crap out of the vast majority of them) Spidey fighting against Batman villains: hello good sir, do you need me to take you back to the asylum?
Joker VS Spider-Man can only go two ways (let the author of the story decide). Either Peter annoy Joker so much he quits being a villain, or Joker makes all of Gotham thank Batman for being so strict with his no kill rule
I always found the idea that Batman villains would try to “break” Spider-Man laughable. Outside of Joker and Scarecrow most of them would just try to kill him and fail horribly, Croc is weaker lizard, Fire fly is weaker Beetle, Clayface is weaker sandman, Bane is weaker Tarantula/Venom, and two face and Penguin are just guys
@@boxtupos7718I’d say Bane is a pretty dangerous fighter too, though I haven’t seen a lot of him so I don’t really know, just assuming cuz he’s all smart and strong and stuff
@@boxtupos7718 Insinuating Bane isn't a dangerous fighter despite going toe to toe with; and frequently beating Batman, both in and out of suit, is kind of crazy. Bane is not only extremely strong, he's also extremely intelligent and can often rally people towards his cause.
Bane is closer to Kraven to me. Both are pretty much just in it for the bragging rights of beating an unbeatable hero. Both a master strategists and martial artists. Both use some sort of chemical to enhance their abilities.
Green Goblin would be a NIGHTMARE to Batman. Goblin would be a great threat to Batman. But Norman Osborn would be a threat to BRUCE WAYNE. If he found out Batman's secret identity, he'd do everything within his power to ruin his personal and financial life.
If Norman suddenly saw Bruce Wayne move Wayne Enterprises into New York he'd probably still do that just because it would be able to push back against whatever monopolies Oscorp might have.
Ok but why would Green Goblin be any bigger of a threat to Batman than Lex Luthor? They’re both brilliant business men with custom gadgets, and corporations that essentially own the cities they operate in
@@bobjones4762He would be a bigger threat hes lex with super strength who gets down with the hands and has a slight healing factor bats would be in some deep shit
Freeze: Why are you helping me, Arachnid? Spider-Man: ...Because I don't want to watch another great mind fall because of one mistake. Meanwile: Kraven: And here, I thought the Spider was the most dangerous game. Batman: I'm not a trophy. I'm the one who hangs them.
5:39 They're not gonna look up for a guy crawling on the ceiling but they're used to looking up for batman who always comes jumping in from the top rope 🤣
@@bman1235 Also the fact Spider-Man's quips and mocking could probably break Joker. Batman Beyond did something similar and Joker looked like he was having an existential crisis (as the video mentions). Peter could no doubt do worse.
Marvel and DC take inherently different approaches to writing. Marvel's stories are centered around characters, while DC's are centered around concepts. Spider-Man screws up in a major way, and now he's trying to recover from his mistake, usually at a great cost. Batman's stories are usually about villains exploiting his traumas, and his stories often pose philosophical questions. What if the gods turned against humanity? Should anyone have that much power? Is Batman really just one bad day away from becoming the Joker?
It was Hulk and Thor for your Stan Lee quote. He said when he wrote it it was Thor because Hulk was the strongest a human can get but Thor was a god. If I'm remembering correct he also said that it may not be the case now, and what the current writers needs is what is most important.
People also don't understand that Spidey's villains are also aware that he's pulling punches so most of them do the same out of fear that he might stop doing so. I remember that one comic whare Peter gets sick and couldn't talk so when he went to stop some bad guys he was silent. The sheer terror on some of their faces got me laughing so hard I was on the floor bro. The fools legit almost pissed their pants because they thought that Spidey was currently pissed and that he might no hold back against them.
Eg, Doc Ock takes over Peter’s body and shatters Scorpion’s jaw with one punch because he wasn’t holding back, (Scorpion being a superhuman in power armor, specifically designed to fight Spider-Man)
@danielwesley5051 that was stupid. Scorpion was stronger than spiderman and was meant to be a physical foe to outsmart Now he's stupid and weak... Cux he was never the bright guy. Not rhino strong but a weaker but much faster brute. And a not trying doc oc spiderman did it. At this rate venom should be a wimp Except venom is popular...and so is green goblin who was weaker than spiderman and relies on tech, speed and smiliar strength level Plus Spidey Holding back for a edge. Idc if spiderman is strong him being able to kill his gallery without trying is stupid and makes the point of any fight meangliess.
Some of them that would work, but the reason most of them don't get help is because they are genuinely insane, not just in a bad situation. They need more than an outlet, or a talk to be healthy. If it was that simple then Batman, or more likely Bruce Wayne would of done it a long time ago.
@@acidaspida8885 I Disagree. Batman seems much more of a "You broke the law. You go to prison. Period. No exception!" And once in Prison, he leaves, and never interacts with them again unless he has to. Spiderman, however, will let them go if they aren't hurting people. Poison Ivy, for example, is happy if she is isolated alone in a forest or plant situated place, and able to just enjoy living and working with her Plants. I could SEE Peter Parker actively working WITH HER, setting up a lab for plants, to help people with benefiting plants, and keeping people out of her location so they can't harm her plants and drive her mad with anger and revenge. Look at Lizardman, who retains his human mind. Spider man helps him, and employs him, and when the Lizard mind takes over, beats him up to stop him, SAVES him, then releases him to keep working. Except for the Sinister 6, MOST of Spider Man villains actually go to jail, cause Spider man HELPS them. Batman NEVER helps any of the villains. Ever. I don't think there is a single comic, cartoon episode, or movie where Batman actually works with, employees, and helps the villains even when they break the law. Perfect example? Mr. Freeze. Every single instance of Mr Freeze vs Batman, Mr Freeze ALWAYS ends up in jail. Period. Under Spiderman tho, Spiderman would HELP him cure his own disease, cure his wife, and both fund and work with him for those cures. Spiderman actually CARES about the villains, when they aren't just evil for the sake of evil, and WILL actively go out of his way to help and save them.
@@Jirodyne he got two face surgery to help him. He helped the one little girl reality warper. There's more, those are just the popular examples I know of the top of my head.
@@acidaspida8885 "one little girl reality warper" If you mean Ace, he didn't "Help" her. She was literally dying, and he just stayed with her so she wouldn't be alone as she died. It's sad, and tragic, but literally ANY Hero would have done that for a young child, or else they wouldn't be allowed to be called a Hero or Role Model
People dont realize why batman have a harder time Its that rogues are developed FOR their heroes. Batmans vullains were designed for batman, and spiders for spiderman Of course spiderman has an easier time tbh. I do think scarecrow toxin would send spider through a tizzy tho, like extreme
Im pretty sure Joker wouldnt just try to shoot him tho. He would have a joyride of horrors for him. Peter is way stronger sure but don't forget that all of the DC universe is disgusted by Joker and knows how dangerous he is.
@@EntombedToast70 ooo I think that would just make the joker More deranged. Like Alright you haven't a Joker brand bad day. Though tbh I think Joker with prep time is FAAAR more dangerous than batman with prep time
@@anthonyham5589 don't forget, yes Joker prepping to harm spider-man would never reach the levels of pure evil that Norman can plan out in a single coffee break. Norman's plans on hurting Peter is just pure cruelty, from making clones that make peter question his reality. To becoming bonded to the carnage symbiot and infecting all of Peter's friends and families. To not only killing George Stacy but also killing Gwen in like a single week. Jokers big event style plans are like a normal Tuesday for what Norman does to Peter
What I find fascinating is everyone brings up how Batman is prepared to fight the justice league head on. Whether it’s tower of babel or the Justice buster armor. Strangely no one brings up the fact that Spider-Man has solo fought the avengers on several occasions, and was able to nearly effortlessly beat most of the members with 24 hours to prepare. So I’d say they’re both pretty much on the same level when it comes to prep time strength
TBF Superman is wayyyyy stronger than most of the mainline avengers. The only ones who could give him a serious run for his money would be magic heroes and maybe Hulk.
I think the main point is we shouldn’t be asking “Could Batman take the Green Goblin in a fight?” We should be asking “How would the Green Goblin work as a Batman villain?” Cause that question would make a better comic/TV show.
I don't honestly think he could, at least not as a pure Batman villain. He's got everything Bruce does on top of metahuman physical capabilities, the only way he wins is if he calls in backup from a hero who doesn't frequent Gotham. Not even prep time can save him, since if Bruce has the ability to plan, so does Norman.
I don't care what the Green Goblin would be like as a Batman villain because he wasn't made to be one and his entire character would have to change in this experiment. Meanwhile, we can imagine how well superheroes could do fighting other villains much more easily and without the need to essentially just make up new characters but slap a known name on them.
It USED TO BE about morality.... because batman respects human life but then under the red hood retconned it into being cause hes crazy. Its another dumb retcon to try and make batman into an anti hero... something batman SHOULD NOT be
@@MILDMONSTER1234 ehhh id argue there was always an element of his mental issues beign a big factor even in the DCAU he talked about how close to the darkness he was the the DCAU being very well written also had a unique counter argument the justice lords episode showed while he is the closest to going over the line he is the one who could come back if they went to far
@@MILDMONSTER1234 he actually used guns a whip and killed he only had a no kill rule because he shot a criminal in the manor and he shot Alfred aswell because Alfred was behind the criminal that was during his original dark knight days
9:01 You forgot to mention that Peter can hold his breath for long periods spanning several minutes. He could just not breathe and beat Scarecrow in a few blows.
@@acidaspida8885 Counterpoint: Spider man has a danger sense. Sneaking up on someone and dosing them with someone without them noticing is way harder when they have a precog sense yelling at them about your intentions.
@@acidaspida8885 It doesn’t matter what the danger is, it just has to be danger. Fear gas would activate his spidey-sense, whether it’s released in a bomb or passed through a vent or siphoned through a pipe. It is an early warning that sense potential dangers, whether it is truly a threat or not. We know from various medias that gases such as tear gas do indeed activate spidey sense, as well as smoke from fire and other gaseous substances. It isn’t about scarecrow, the gas is the real danger and he’d react. I want to be in favor of scarecrow because spidey sense is OP af and I like scarecrow, but I can’t see Spider-Man not reacting to the gas even if it blew up in his face
I think the thing about Batman is also, he’s ready to retreat all the time. He has experienced and escaped from Superman in more than one story. So he will get his preparation simply because the moment he is in a new environment the first thing he‘d do is retreat and assess possible threats.
Spider-Man is my favourite hero, and I'm not a huge fan of Batman, but I have to say that Spidey might have a problem in regards to the mental part, because aside from one or other villain, such as Green Globlin, he is not used to the wide-spread level of psychopathy that Batman's villains have, and Peter has been shown frequently to be quite easily pissed off and become mentally unbalanced with gratuitous cruelty (Sin-Eater, for example). So in physical terms they might not be a problem, but he could simply lose himself over time due to sheer depression and hopelesness. Batman, in that regard, is better mentally prepared.
Me starting the video: "Huh, I wonder what this guy thinks about Batman's use of gadgets and if the Batcave is allowed or not" Me finishing this video: "Batman has been mishandled by media for far too long, and we need to go back to what makes Batman great" I genuinely love how you baited me into watching a dissection of Batman and Spider-Man as characters, and the mishandling of Batman specifically, when I was expecting something completely different. A surprise to be sure, but a welcomed one.
@@danielebowman Oh but it is. THe thing is also that one time Magneto wanted to get him on their side (I do not remember why) but when he saw how Electro acted and was, Magneto was dissapointed in basically how stupid and shortsighted Electro is. To the point that he decided to not even talk to him.
@danielebowman No, it's mostly his stupidity and lack of creativity. Electrokinesis basically let's you become a God. You could kill someone instantly by controlling their brainwaves, possibly destroy the planet. Along with electromagnetism
Not necessarily who I expected or wanted to be stronger than Magneto, but this does make Electro as a character both more frightening and much funnier. Stronger than goddamn Magneto, but he's dumb as rocks so he's stuck in Queens.
While I do generally agree with you, I think you did a massive disservice to the MASSIVE threat that is Scarecrow. Not only is Fear Toxin a direct counter to Spider-Sense (since unlike Mysterio's illusions it would directly affect his brain and send his Spidey Sense into overdrive and potentially even cause Spidey's enhanced reflexes to turn against him). But Scarecrow is smart, and more than that, he's a psychological menace. If Spider-Man so much as simply utter's Gwen or Uncle Ben's name during a Fear Toxin trip, Scarecrow WOULD pick up on that, and he would procede to tug on that thread every second he can until he unravels it. The only reason Scarecrow is such a low level threat is because Batman's entire personality and training gives him an Iron-Clad Will against Fear Toxin, something that Spider-Man does not have. Also, I don't think Batman beats Kingpin, I think Bruce Wayne does. Batman may lose the intial fight, but he gets away and in a Week or so Kingpin finds out that some pretty rich boy just bought 75% of his staff across all industries from right under his nose.
Honestly I think people sleep on scarecrow in general, his toxin was able to cause Superman to kill Lois so who’s to say that crane doesn’t just get spider man to kill aunt may or MJ or Gwen? Peter Parker is just a kid who doesn’t deal with psychologically terrifying villains like Batman so he would have little to no resistance, in fact crane would probably take advantage of spider man’s extreme strength and powers to get him to cause lots of destruction in the city possibly killing civilians. Scarecrow may be one of the most dangerous villains in all of DC honestly because he doesn’t need to be powerful he is always using the hero’s power for his own gain.
Scarecrow would be a little more dangerous for sure still, spiderman also has enough willpower to overcome whatever is thrown at him, pherphaps it would affect him more but the result in the end would be the same, he would get through that and smash scarecrow. And then Carecrow would have to be able to make spidey inhale the gas somehow which would not be easy at all Besides his sistem would probably filter the toxin pretty quickly since he doesnt have a particular weakness and even if he was affected seriously, after fighting mysterio, scorpion poison, all of the simbiote stuff (nightmares, messing whit his personality etc.), Being hunted by venom, kraven, green goblin etc. and his daily life, i dont think it would give that MUCH trouble. And he is pretty smart so it wouldnt be a problem for him to make a cure, it would probably be easier to him than it was for batman since science is basically its especiallity
@@nunobatista5822Yeah Scarecrow would be like a one time threat to him as he wouldn’t know about the fear toxin but Peter has been able to overcome toxins like that before with his own villains so if they ever got a rematch, Spidey wouldn’t have as much trouble taking him down.
Gonna be real here. One of the defining and imo most interesting characteristics of Batman is that there is no problem he can't solve. Similar to what you said yourself when he's in Justice League comics the reason he's able to hold his own in that realm is due to his proclivity for strategy and tactics. This is precisely why the majority of his villains are psychological antagonists. Most of these conflicts center around the emotional and mental aspect of things bc that is the core of his character more so than his physical abilities, cool as they may be. With regards to this debate, I feel like that feeds into being the world's greatest detective. His ability to solve puzzles, form strategies, and rebound when plans don't go as they should is what makes Batman one of the most powerful heroes in the DCEU. His ability to think on his feet and form strategies in the moment are just as strong as his abilities to plan ahead so prep time or not, I think he would beat Spider-Man villains. I certainly don't think it would be easy tho. His vast resources aside, what makes Batman the world's greatest detective is his ability to problem solve. This is why he's able to defeat any opponent, from penguin to Darkseid. Unless there is a character that simply has no weaknesses to exploit, such as Dr Manhattan or the one above all, it's impossible to count Batman out. That said, you might be right in that Spider-Man would have an easier time with at least the majority of Batman's villains given he's also a good strategist himself.
The one flaw I have noticed with arguments like this from most fans is that they tend to overlook the qualities of Batman. Batman is not Spiderman without powers. They are two completely different characters who tackle scenarios in completely different ways. Even if we want to take out the prep time for instance most people tend to think a first encounter would end with Batman dying. Most likely a first encounter will end with Batman pulling back and regrouping with a much more better plan. Also let not forget the fact that this man is arguably the best tactician and strategist in of all DC. He ain’t going to just punch really hard. He is going to study his enemies, try out a few tricks and if nothing works he’ll fade into the shadows and dip. Batman knows when his beat and he rarely ever sticks around once that is clear.
Yeah exactly, he’s a master of stealth, and in this hypothetical situation i could even see him not confronting the villains for months or even years if it means having enough time to devise a completely full proof plan to take them down.
i dont think anyone is claiming batman to be spiderman without powers. BUT its very clear that the batman's version of the trope, (lizard/croc, bane/rhino, manbat/vulture, mysterio/riddler, kingpin/penguin) are FAR less dangerous than spiderman's. to the point of some of them, like penguin and bane ending up as c tier if they were to fight spiderman.
No, as don't overlook the qualities of Batman, that's fucking ridiculous. You invalidated whatever the rest of your comment was by starting it with such a stupid assertion.
@@gamingwithquancena4989 Yes, correct. Except Batman has never taken years to confront a villain. And also people assume Batman is taking on these villains with only what he can carry in his batsuit. Here’s how the scenario should take out: A spiderman villain appears in Gotham and commits acts of villainy. Batman investigates, and before engaging learns about this villain. Then he gets ready to engage the next time the supervillain strikes. If it’s the Joker, he might leap from the rafters and punch him. But if it’s Green Goblin or Doc Octopus, etc., he would bring tech. He’s got cars, planes, bikes, mech suits, drones, missiles, alien technology, etc. I don’t know Spiderman’s enemies well enough to judge what it would take to stop them, but everyone who says instakill Batman is ignoring the plot.
@@abj136it's coz ppl undermine batman coz "hes just human" but if we take a step back and look his feats alone show he isn't a normal peak human ppl take advantage of batman being human so they automatically think he loses every fight first encounter when in reality he actually investigate b4 going straight into a fight this is why I hate powerscaling with batman coz it takes away his whole character and marvel fans know this as they just want everything in their favor
Peter wouldn't have the easiest time with Batman's rogues, imo. What makes Gotham's rogues dangerous is that they're not often a palpable threat to the heroes themselves, but to whatever the heroes are trying to protect. Peter will have no problem punching Joker's face in and might even have easy enough time to throw some quips in, but what happens when he notices the citizens are laughing a little too hard? Batman's villains don't want to beat you, they want you to fail.
Spider-man has cured lizardification, symbiote outbreaks and vampirism before. He is very familiar with villains who use chemicals and also has learned a lot of counters. I'm fairly confident he can come up with a cure to Joker gas.
@@yoursonisold8743 i have no doubt that Spider-man can come up with a cure , but he will have watched hundreds, if not thousands of people die horribly before he comes up with one. my point is Peter failing the citizens due to him underestimating the villains will stick with him for a long time, which is more than half of Gotham's rogues' main objective when facing heroes.
@@yoursonisold8743Lizerdification is a transformation. You can just turn them back. Joker just kills hundreds of people with joker gas. No spiderman villians other than carnage cause damage on that scale.
@@Marc-rw3dd there actually has been many times where spidey has actually dealt with death on that scale(almost all his villains are city level). Also Joker Jas doesn't always kills it only kills if you leave the victim alone to die to usually suffocation and the whole idea of a antidote is that it is going to effect someone who was already infected if there was no saving than there wouldn't be a antidote. Also Marvel does a better job of if there is high level tech and health care there would be a high chance that at least most government places would have them so spidey doesn't even need to do the job of devising a cure alone. Also I just remember Spidey usually deals with Scorpion's venom(which can also be in a gas form and has kill whole city blocks of people before) which is strong enough to weaken and kill superheroes who have super healing and usually negate all form of chemical warfare.
dont forget, the fear toxin and joker gas would most likely not affect spidey. his radioactive blood cleanses out ANY illness, it even prevented spidey from becoming a vampire. so he’d be immune to those attacks, which would probably make him immune to poison ivy’s mind control too
Ivy might work since her powers come from the Green these days...I think, I haven't read any DC stuff in awhile. It feels like that'd work on some weird totemic spider-level. But she'd still have to get close to actually use it, and with his spider-sense/agility, that's way easier said than done. Fear toxin/Joker gas are more up in the air, I feel like it's worked on aliens and such before, but I can't remember if it was specifically made with other stuff to work on them, or if it was just sorta handwaved in those stories
Scorpion's toxin and Mysterio's sense nullifying gases did work on Spidey before though. The latter straight up dulled his spider-sense even. If fear toxin can affect his spider sense that would be really, really bad. But usually illusions or chemicals are thing Spidey can either resist more than normal people or straight up stop working quickly.
Spidey's problem with Ivy is simply that he's a sucker for hot women, especially redheads (MJ) and especially crazy bad-girls (Felicia). He could wear a sealed spacesuit and she'd still play him.
I feel that if Spider-Man annoyed Riddler, Riddler might not give Spidey more clues to help defuse the bomb or save the innocent. (Yes Spidey is smart, I’m not suggesting he can’t solve riddles). But I do wonder if the delicate personalities that Batman has grown to adapt around would give Spidey trouble in order to stop a Gotham villains plan. I guess what I’m asking is, would Batman and Spiderman be able to save the day against each others respective villains, or would one have a harder time being a hero than the other? Instead of just beating the villain up?
Crock never said that with the rock, that was Batman in disguise. He is a pretty street smart villain. No match for Spiderman but still, he isn't Rhino.
I think one of my favourite parts about both Batman and Spider-Man is that they won’t stop. No matter how battered or broken they will continue. They are both the epitome of indomitable willpower and it shows. It makes them both in my opinion while not physically unbeatable I think they are mentally unbeatable. Unstoppable characters of will and do whatever it takes to do “the right thing”.
Batman's prep powers come in part from his vast wealth and incredible resources from Wayne Enterprises, Justice League and stuff he picked up fro various sci-fi misadventures, not just his brilliant intellect. Denying these to Bruce would be a bit like dropping Tony Stark in DC but forbidding him from using any of his Iron Man suits or any money. Obviously dropped in cold, Spider-Man would have a relatively easy time in Gotham while Batman would struggle in New York- but, if they are stuck there for weeks, months or years, things would become very different, and if we had them actually born and raised in the different verse's then things would change a lot too.
Not to crap on the metaphor more for a comparison, I think tony stark would get his bearings much faster than bruce would if they were dropped in the other universe without resources. Tony really just needs a bunch of scraps and basic supplies to get going, while batman's plans have way more specialized and expensive materials. Though I think that would be a neat comparison between Tony stark and Bruce Wayne who'd get back to top form faster.
@@CreepsandwicheaterTony Stark unfortunately kinda falls into a fallacy whenever he's involved in a cold dropping. If Tony doesn't have a suit, he makes one, no matter how implausible or ridiculous the scope or available materials. Key example would be the Ice Age Suit, which is literally just ice.
People are glazing either heroes too much… I feel both would definitely struggle in the beginning. However Batman would easily begin prepping to fight his foes… not to mention… Batman has fought super powered beings like Solomon Grundy… Spiderman on the other hand wouldn’t necessarily struggle with combat instead his mental state and moral compass would be tested constantly… you have Green Goblin who pushes him hardest while Batman constantly has villains doing cruel shit. There are also more tactical villains in Batman’s rogue gallery… Bane for example broke Batman’s back not because he was stronger or the fact he beat Batman up… the only reason he was able to do that was because bane setup Batman to get so tired Batman practically fell on to Bane’s knee to break his back…
I always thought it would be funny that if Spider-Man faced the Joker in a crossover, the latter would be using fake bombs or splashing civilians with water and letting them think it's acid or something like that, because he felt like messing with people for his own amussement that morning. And when his spider-senses didn't triger Spider-Man would just assume he was just one of those harmless c-list joke villains (a Jester variant, even) and kind of go along with him for a bit before webbing him and leaving. He would even audibly laugh at a few of his jokes or deliver a punch line or two. And everyone, including the Joker himself, would be completely dumbfounded. Gothamites would straight-up think that this guy is insane.
Joker being just a goofy guy that doesn't want death and chaos at every corner would be a fresh take for the character nowadays, I'm growing tired of him as he is right now in comics
@mateushenriquepinheiro3197 Right? His name is Joker, that's what he's supposed to be. What his entire identity is about. He shouldn't be some serious, supervillain meant to be taken completely seriously. Some of his crimes and plots should end up just being harmless purely for psychological warfare
Another issue for Batman is how often Spider-Man villains team up. Sure, sometimes a few lesser villains rally together in Gotham… but they’re never truly a Sinister 6 caliber threat Dock Ock, Vulture, Scorpion, Rhino, Mysterio and Shocker teaming up would be an absolute nightmare for Batman to deal with. Even if they lined up to politely take turns fighting Batman I don’t think Bruce can handle more than 2 actively “hunting” him independently from one another, let alone all 6 actively working together
I think there is a valid point, but the counter point like in the batman games. Bats Villains are often acting at the same time, Which could be intentionally trying to ware the bat thin, And in the hypothetical of the video, its just Spiderman as the hero. So he can't be in the 6-8 places at once to deal with the things like bats and his family. Last I checked, Peter does not take Ls well
@@anthonyham5589 The original Sinister Six had Spidey fight all day long. Each do a different crime spree to tire him out, and they still lost. Thy later all ganged up on him in a surprise attack, an lost. Then you got the time Carnage took over the city "Web of Shadows" style, Venom did too with heroes,and Spidey beat them.
@@anthonyham5589 Yeah this is specifically the plan for Joker in Arkham Origins and Arkham Knight/Scarecrow in AK, get as many elite villains as possible working together in one night so that Batman can't keep up. Its also not a million miles away from Bane's plan during Knightfall of releasing every from Arkham before confronting Bruce so he'll have to have dealt with everyone almost simultaneously.
@@malleableconcrete an Arkham outbreak is still objectively easier to handle than a Sinister Squad imo. Think about it, barring Ivy and Clayface, who is a challenge for Spider-Man among the Bat-Rogues? Scarecrow at best has a 50/50 of getting negged by spider-sense, Bane peaks around Kingpin in strength, Joker is a crazier less tech savvy Goblin without Super Soldier stats, the League of Assassins would be like a field trip into Hell’s Kitchen to fight The Hand until you get to Ra’s himself, and even the Court of Owls throwing Talons at him isn’t the worst considering he’s kept up on the front lines alongside Asgardian warriors. Kingpin is basically Bane without the venom reliance/weak spot and arguably as many resources and connections. The Wrecking Crew are all roughly as tough as asgardian warriors and The Wrecker’s crowbar is a discount Mjonlir. Scorpion’s suit/tail has managed to make Spider-Man put in effort to hold back strikes and Rhino’s strength usually terrifies Peter unless he’s giving into his rage. Doc Ock is a talented genius with 4 highly advanced Swiss army tentacles that have an array of features and capabilities, the least of which keeping up with spider-mana strength and speed. Clayface meet Sandman who can turn a sandy area into a colossal Titan. Electro is gonna be trouble straight up. And then you get Goblin who I’ve already mentioned to be a more tech tavvy Joker with super soldier stats… but Carnage makes even Goblin look like a puppy in comparison, literally created as a “what if Joker got the Venom Symbiote”. Even Lizard is an upgraded Croc. An Arkham outbreak for Spider-Man is like a larger Sinister Squad with watered down versions of his enemies. For Batman a Sin6 would be like a bunch of his villains either got PHDs and/or upgraded powers and decided to gang up on him with a few extra spicy villains added in for good measure.
Tbh with exceptions of Doc Ock and Green Goblin, Spider-Man's villains are dumb asf. I think once Batman realizes how majority of them operate, they won't be an issue to him anymore.
A riddle is NOT a math problem and a investigator is not an engineer. Truly intelligence isn't linear, and I think you have to really pay attention when discussing these character's in this way.
Batman _is an engineer_ though. He built most of his materials in the Batcave on his own. He only enlists the help of others like Mr. Terrific and otherwise to do insanely huge projects like the Hellbat suit or the JL Watchtowers. Peter Parker is absolutely smart enough to figure out the Riddler. He's done his own serious intelligence work before and he's one of the smartest people in Marvel, right behind Reed Richards and Dr. Doom. That's why he can behave like such a jokester, he's smart enough to figure out his bad guys and do it quickly.
@@nuclearsimian3281 This misses my point, an investigator and Detective aren't the same as an engineer, Batman IS the proof, he didn't learn multiple skills and knowledge bases from the same mentors and teachers. These are all different forms of IQ traits and knowledge. Batman is a better detective than Spiderman so we should assume the riddles and general situations are difficult. I would easily assume, if Spiderman and Batman were in Gotham together, Spiderman wouldn't just become an equal detective to Batman just like out of nowhere.
Clayface? Killer croc? Mad hatter? Hush? Solomon Grundy? Dead shot? Red hood? Black mask? Man bat? YOU MENTIONED NEARLY ALL OF SPIDER MANS ROGUE GALLERY BUT FAILED TO MENTION SO MANY OF BATMANS???!!!!
He mentioned Clay face and killer croc. I don't think spider-man has a problem with most of the other characters you listed. Man-bat and Vulture are pretty comparable. Solomon Grundy is a super strong brute like Rhino. Black mask isn't more of a threat than Kingpin. Spideysense kinds of make deadshot a non-issue most of the time. Red hood is kind of similar to Punisher in that I feel Spiderman can kick his ass if he needs to, but they'll probably try to stay out of each other's way. I don't know enough about Hush to say anything for certain. I'm pretty sure Mad Hatter would probably be a similar threat scale to Mysterio where he's not one of Spider-man's top tiers.
Prep-time - or rather, cunning and ingenuity - is integral to both characters: classic Spider-Man stories see Peter defeated early, figure out a solution, and then return to triumph having learned something. Batman's best stories are driven by him working to understand and figure out a solution to his foe's. Both - and, frankly, all superheroes to some degree - are underdogs facing foes far more dangerous than them.
Not all, superman gets powered down by his enemies for them to be a threat since superman is the opposite of an underdog in terms of power against most of his villains
@@N0-1_H3r3 well yeah but most of supes main villains are weaker than him and if they show someone who is equal to him or stronger they just show supes stop holding back and overpowering them. Supes main villain is Lex who is just a super smart dude that always uses kryptonite to get the upper hand
I think Batman vs Spider-Man enemies will also boil down to how willing Batman is to retreat, analyze the previous fight, and try something new until he does win.
Batman would have so much problems with Shocker the first few times, Shocker is very good at adapting, hell he has beaten Spider-Man more than once and let him go because he was being payed more to leave him. I can see Shocker getting one or two victories against Batman, then Batman adapts and beats Shocker easily, Shocker then realises that Gotham sucks and moves to Central City where he and the Rogues will become best friends in less than a week.
@@Marc-rw3ddShocker is often portrayed as a mercenary type, so if the job is too difficult, the pay isn't sufficient, he'll just pack up and head out for greener pastures. He's great, I love him.
I gotta wonder how many times Herman would have to pack up and move, considering every city seems to have a superhero in it that’s vastly above his paygrade.
I really hate the modern depiction of batman and the arguments they use to make him win "if he had prep time-", batman is a great strategist, sure, but he's great in every physical and mentally possible way, hes not just strong and fast, he's disciplined and knows basically every fighting style in the world, he is not just smart and strategic, he has one of the biggest mental resistance, he can amazingly prepare to situations, but he can easily also adapt, if his gadgets do not work, he makes new ones on the spot mixing other gadgets, if he loses a battle because of his lack of strength or abilities, he adapts and creates other suit that maybe imitates spidey abilities, sure spidey can win the joker, the riddler, the killer croc, but these villains are psychopathic murderers, they do horrible things, spiderman would easily beat the joker, but what if joker killed 20 babies before spiderman knew the joker was doing something?, if batman sees that he would be obviously affected mentally later, but in the spot he would resist it, he would not let his feelings affect his battle skills, but spiderman would feel horrible, his anger maybe, just like stated on his video, might kill the joker, but that's not what the joker wants?, you can use that argumment in any batman villain, their goal, is equally as power and money, breaking the bat, breaking his mind, winning mentally, but spidey doesn't is that mentally strong(im not saying he doesn't is, but nowhere near as the bat is) (Basically, I believe batman would loose to spiderman villians, but not as fastly like the video says, and also that spiderman would humble any batman villian, but not as easily as the video said)
Imagine Peter walking around and finding condiment king, calendar man, and polka dot man. Peter would have a field day with quips and jokes.
_"What's the matter, Mr. King? Relish yourself on making a stain on anyone's clothing? I can ketchup with that."_
@@poweroffriendship2.0 I read this in Yuri’s voice
@@poweroffriendship2.0 this is perfect
“calendar man?! of all days…”
It's all funny games until Peter gets hit with Scarecrows toxin...
Either Peter's spidey sense becomes completely neutralized, and someone shanks him. Or he just loses it.
riddler: "riddle me this, spiderman-"
spidey: "I like knock-knock jokes better!"
this was very spider-man of you, cheers
[REDACTED]
(this comment is no longer relevant)
Spiderman is getting ragdolled. Manbat is so strong plastic man couldn't beat him even made plastic man bleed and strongenoughto almostbreak superman neck,bane can fight mammoth and cheetah , poison ivy can take on wonder woman and swamp thing ,killer croc can tank hits for supergirl even keep up with her,made zod bleed and got punched across the map getting right back up, deathstroke takes on speedsters and the league daily plus the titans gave superman a nose bleed,grundy isn't even a debate,clayface fought etrigan in space same etrigan capable of takin over hell. Anyone who thinks Spiderman stands a chance don't read comics
@@samuraiblack8840 Yeah and spiderman went toe to toe with a herald of galactus. your point?
Spidey: "I gotta admit, Mr. Punctuation. This is some seriously intricate-tech! Love the puzzle-motif!"
[A flustered-Riddler blushes heavily. He can't look Spidey in the eye]
Superman: “We’d never plan how we’d stop you.”
Batman: “Literally any of you could throw me into the sun. I’m really the only one who needs to have a plan.”
Lol
Yeah I never quite understood people faulting Batman for thinking about how to beat the rest. I guarantee you Superman knows how to beat Batman, if he even would need to bother thinking about it.
There's a reason he didn't say that and instead said "Then you're a damn fool."
@@kitsunemusicisfirethe only one being foolish was the guy who let his plans to kill his friends leak 😂
"If you, _Superman,_ can't think of a way to beat me, a rich guy, _we have a problem."_
Imagine Spidey going up against Bane, but most of the fight is Spidey coming to terms with the idea that Venom in this context is a drug that has nothing to do with the Symbiotes.
Just imagine him being worried constantly hearing about venom. Then just has a sigh of relief to learn it's just super steroids
Imagine Bane getting possessed by Venom. That would be both awesome and scary.
@@benjamintheophilus5610 That would be sick lmao
He just sighs loudly and says, "Oh, thank goodness! You're just on steroids; I thought I was in for a really bad time here!" And then Bane is defeated two panels later.
@@benjamintheophilus5610 Bane possessed by Venom, then using Venom.
I can honestly see Spidey playing dumb and "accidentally just kinda stumble across" the answers to Riddlers riddles, just to show an "idiot" could beat the Riddler JUST to piss him off
That or just tell Riddler he didn't even bother finishing the riddle before figuring out where he was
Riddle me this, I am-
Key, you’re a key
Oh fuck off
i can definitely see him making “technically correct” answers to the riddles to show how dumb some of the riddles are or can be.
@@posermatt1293
Riddler: Riddle me this. What gets wetter the more it dries?
Spider-Man: Bane. Because when I cut his Venom supply and it spills all over him, he shrivels up real fast.
Riddler: That's not right! Why would you even think that!?
Spider-Man: The human body is mostly made up of water. Shouldn't someone as smart as you know that?
I'd pay a lot of money to see spider man interact with riddler, just imagining his replies is hilarious and gets me in a giggly mood
Science without ethics, you generally get Spider-man villains. Arts and Humanities without ethics, you generally get Batman villains.
too many art school rejections i see
OH NO
Your ripped this right off of tumblr(iirc)
But ya, basically this.
how are batman's villains about arts and humanities lol
@@highdefinition450 Psychology(Joker, Riddler, etc), Theatrics(How many make overly elaborate shows), Philosophy, and many more parallels.
I saw a discussion about Batman and Spider-Man switching places ince that i always liked.
"Spider-Man in Gotham initially creeps the Arkham villains out because he's willing to take and even joke while fighting them.
After a while, they get used to it and just find him annoying.
...And then, the Joker does something that crosses a line and they find out how terrifying it is when Spider-Man STOPS talking."
Gotham criminals aren’t scared of a wisecracking hero, they’ve always dealt with robins (especially dick). It’s specifically Batman making jokes because he’d obv never do that. I def see Peter being pushed into dead serious scary mode after finding a bombed kindergarten with kids stitched together tho
It's like that bit where spider-man didn't talk throughout most of the story, which freaked out the criminals to the point that they just gave up....and it turned out that spider-man was just sick and so didn't want to hurt his throat.
I don't remember if it was real or a fan comic, but there was one where Spidey confronts a few of his villains, and is saying nothing, the first two call him out for why he's not talking, and Mysterio just goes "oh no"
But it just turns out he has laryngitis, as he softly explains to the cop after turning the villains in, lol
Part of the reason people fear "silent spiderman" is because and if I'm wrong or miss remembering it was either symbiote spidy or another spider person pretending to be spidy that didn't Crack jokes the whole time they were out fighting and they were Brutal almost breaking some one in half I think might be wrong.
So Mysterio seeing a silent spidy remembers that day and says " oh....OH!!!"
I also think it's an unwritten rule with his rogues that if he isn't cracking jokes it's best to shut up and leave or turn yourself in
@@Onimura123 I think that may be part of it.
Someone else summarized it along the lines of "If Spider-Man isn't talking anymore it means that he's now devoting all of his focus towards HURTING you, badly."
So that does fit.
In defense of the scene with Killer Croc, the “I threw a rock at him!” That was Batman disguised as Killer Croc. I believe Batman said that because that was the closest out of all those villains stories that he actually came to dying. No thoughts no nothing, just 800 lbs of rock flying at him at 90 miles an hour.
Honestly I'd argue 60's Batman was the source of "prep time" "always prepared" batman, bro just HAD Bat Shark Repellent on him lol. He was ready for anything.
tower of babel is definitely moreso the source of the idea that his ‘prep time’ means he would defeat literally anyone you could match him up with.
Prime Batman even says 60s Batman is even more prepared than he is. The man was smiling when he saw the Shark Repellent.
He didn't just have shark repellant. He had it in the Bat Helicopter. He was prepared for a shark attack while flying a Helicopter.
In my oppinion : in a World where Killer Croc and King Shark exists carrying Shark repellant is not crazy prepared, it is common sense and Wayne could finance the Bat just by selling this stuff.
That dude was a comedically ready forever every possible scenario 😂
Spider-Man getting super excited by the Riddler's riddles and answering them before he finishes rattling them off... and then spouting off where he's read them before in full strength nerd talk, making Riddler very confused and conflicted, because, like... c'mon, it's cool he knows, but don't step on a guy's line, y'know?
That would be adorable
"Yeah Riddler, I love riddles, I do them in my free time!"
"....me too."
"We should write riddles for each other! Only rule is no hurting innocents"
"Yeah... ok"
Bam rehabilitated Riddler
"Dang it Spidey! Stop reading the monster's stat block at the table!"
@@ellie8272 Riddler doesn't do them for fun. He does those as a way to try and prove he's smarter than batman.
@@Dhxgdbdhhxhdjdj Well, yes and no. Edward's key character trait is his narcissism, that is true, he has to be the smartest man in the room. But it is also clear that the man has a clear passion for puzzles. The narcissism does and will always come first though.
The fact that all of Batman's villains are dark reflections of him would make Spider-Man fights bizarrely amusing.
"You might as well FACE it: my half-twisted visage is just a reflection of the two lives you try to lead made manifest! We're not so different, you and I!"
"Wait, so which half of your face is a wisecracking do-gooder secretly weighed down by his sense of responsibility, and which half is a luckless, self-sabotaging shlub weighed down by his sense of responsibility?"
"That's not really what I-"
"I just remembered I don't care. One for you..."
*thwip*
"And one for you."
*thwip*
"Bye!"
"Hey! Nhh! Let me- GET BACK HERE!
... I didn't even get to flip the coin..."
Perfect,
All I could possibly add is-
Thwips the eyes, then asks wether they have a mouth or mouths.
Before the last joke the coin is knocked down a grate or drain.
His confrontation with the Scarecrow would be hilarious.
"You see Spider-Man, I am but a dark reflection of the terror you could instill in villains if you just stopped your YAPPING!!!"
"...was this whole scheme a drawn out way to try and get me to shut up?"
@@archivist_13 i think scarecrow would probably be BY FAR the biggest threat to spiderman. his scare gas would do some really heavy shit to peter.
on the other hand, scarecrow would probably end up as a 1 time villain, since he would be so brutalized by a peter, that he would never dare to try and create another spiderman that doesnt hold back...
as a side note, i have said this before, but all the batman villains would probably be far easier for peter to deal with, since his version of those villains (kingpin/penguin, bane/rhino, the lizard/croc) are far more dangerous and cunning than batman's. bane would prbably be a massive joke, since nothing he could do would be a threat to peter.
hell, its so onesided, that if bane tried to break peter's back, he would just complain that bane is the worst chiropractor he has ever met, since he couldnt even hit the spot right. before ripping bane's tubes, developing a cure, and administrating it to him to stop the effect of the drug.
@@marcosdhelenoWell there's two variations of Bane.
One being the dumb hulk like brute who crushes everything. That sort of depiction of the character would be a "So same fight again next Tuesday?" type villain.
But the other few depictions where he is portrayed to be a genuinely cunning and smart tactician, yea I can see that one being a rather big threat to Spidey. Like in Arkham Origins where he single-handedly found Bat's identity and raided the batcave. Bane could serve as Kingpin 2, but a lot more ruthless and dangerous because instead of a mobster, he's an entire terrorist organisation.
Cringe
Rookie stuff. The real hot take: if they lived in the same city, Batman would be the _best_ Spiderman villain.
Not A Bad Take
Hotter take: Batman sees a multicolored acrobat orphan that makes quips. And BatDad instincts kick in and adopts him.
Yeah hed be like the punisher except not completely insufferable.
Terrible take. Morbius would annihilate batman for even taking the mantle.
@@Toph_Not_E-Bender Hottest take, hear me out...both.
Spider man assumes he's a villain and keeps trying to fight him and batman figures out he's a hero and young and slowly starts trying to adopt him
can you imagine bane trying to break spiderman's back?
bane: now i have broken the spider"
peter: dude you are the worst chiropractor i have ever met, you didnt even hit the right spot! try again a bit lower next time."
After all that time carrying New York crime rates in a never ending spree, he should have the strongest massage to straighten his back.
Fr! Did you see that explosion he tanked in the miles morales game?
Getting flashbacks of when Superman pretending to be Batman against Bane. Bane tried that trick and his knee wasn't the same afterwards.
💀💀💀
Peter: This is how you do it **crack**
Oh the Penguin would HATE Spider Man.
Would he? I feel penguin unlike kingpin could actually recruit Peter Parker to join his criminal enterprise
@TheDCbiz
Ultimate Kingpin did that, but didn't ask. He just trademarked Spider-Man and made it so everything that had Spider-Mans face on it, brought the Kingpin income.
The more Spider-Man stopped crime, the more popular he gets, more popular he gets more merch is sold, more merch is sold, more money going to Kingpins criminal empire.
@@SuperSwineGod2MaximumOverSwine that's a great fun plan. When did this happen, what comic book issue do you remember?
@@Thed538dhsk
The ultimate line. Idk the issue number anymore. I was in middle school and elementary as Ultimate Spider-Man ran. Not the new Ultimate line obviously. I'm taking the 2000s Ultimate Spider-Man.
@@SuperSwineGod2MaximumOverSwine gotcha thanks I'll look it up :)
Spidey and Batman switch villians. Punisher affected the most.
I mean... yeah
Wrong Deadpool would be the most affected spiderman is his best friend
Yeah, new targets. Peter would probably let Frank hunt some of them like Scarecrow and Punchline. He gets Joker though
There was a Batman/Punisher crossover comic where Bruce has to save the Joker from getting shot in a random alleyway by Frank. Only time I can think of in the comics where Joker was scared of anything, like his only fear is being killed in an inglorious manner by someone who barely knows who he is and will forget him a few days later.
@@CuteKiller313a few days??? Try seconds
Also we’re not asking the right questions here.
How would they react to each other’s CITIZENS.
I for one think it’s wholesome and funny.
Exhibit A: Jonah Jameson insults Batman, Bruce buys the news company.
Exhibit B: Spider-Man encounters the citizens who at least appreciate his efforts, and Spidey for the first time in his life is not treated even remotely as garbage as he’s usually treated, becomes best friends with commissioner Gordon.
Hell, Gordon basically adopts Peter. "Kid, what the hell are you doing?"
When you put it this way, Batman & Spider-Man in many ways mirror each other; Batman has no powers but is super-rich; Spidey has powers, but perpetually has money issues. Both have psychotic agents of chaos as arch-nemeses; both have cat burglar GFs and so on.
Both have a brute villain that destroyed them (Kraven & Bane), and they both have archnemesis that are narcissistic as hell making them want to humiliate the hero (Mysterio & Riddler).
I duality he pointed out where Batman is an expert in stealth while Spider-Man’s spider sense gives him extreme awareness
@@jpyanity443 Basically, they're both ninjas
their parents are both dead
Yes but only one has the writers as their eternal villain to put them through hell multiplied by 100
My headcanon with why Venom ran from Spidey with a lit newspaper is because he fell for a bluff. In Venom's mind, that _can't_ be Spider-Man's whole plan. There *has* to be something more to it.
I mean, I would run from someone with a flaming newspaper too.
@@Onyrooliver oh god, he's burning the comic strips !
@deathserpent9747 Noooo! Not Doonesbury, you monster! Why God, why?!?!?
@@deathserpent9747Garfield, NO!!! YOU MONSTER!!!
So Venom fell for Spiderman Batman's gambit ?
There is a story where Peter gets tired of his villains BS and designs a suit specifically to counter all of the Six Sinisters at the same time, and then he does that. If Bats can have prep-time, so does Spidey.
On that note, outside of Peter being just as smart or even smarter than Bruce, he is also a master of improvising. Many inventions he makes to takedown his villains early on are usually hastily thrown together from spare parts or on a budget.
@@spacevagabond4017
Especially the "on a budget" part
I loved Ends of the Earth. It also shows that Peter learnt a lot about his foes too not just their powers but their entire personalities.
@@spacevagabond4017a thing that bothers me is we dont speak on peoples area of expertise, and only focus on who’s smartest which isnt as important.
Peter = material science genius
Stark = weapons
Reed = exotic sciences
Ect
What Batman and Captain America smartness
Finally for around to this, there is a moment in the DC vs Marvel crossover comics storyline where Spidy met the Joker, and Joker constantly put off Spidy's spider-sense and Joker had a feeling not to mess with the guy. It was...weird but also fun to watch the two just quip with each other in a non-serious manner.
Crossovers...
There's also a fan comic where Joker goes to New York City and tries to terrorize Spider-Man, only to have Spider-Man start talking about all the shit he's been through (Gwen Stacy dying on the very same bridge that Joker is standing on, the events of One More Day, everyone in the city hating him, Peter having basically no money, all of his loved ones being constantly attacked or dying, and all of this before he even hit 40, etc.), and Joker just completely stops being a villain, starts questioning his own "One Bad Day" philosophy about anyone being able to be driven insane like him, and when Batman shows up, Joker just demands that Batman help Spider-Man out as much as possible.
@@nadrewod999 "damn batman, help the spider out, hes been through some shit"
@nadrewod999 I mean, Spidey lives in zoo York and his own writers hate his ass😪
Spiderman would actually just reply to the riddler with another riddle. A really really bad riddle.
"Why did the chicken cross your face?" And then he smacks Riddler with a rubber chicken.
He would give a riddle with as many answers as possible, and the riddler would have a mental breakdown
@@Yggi11congrats I giggled at your reply out loud XD
“Riddle me this…”
“I like knock-knock jokes better.”
What’s in my pocket?
Imagine Spidey helping Victor cure Nora and then Victor redeems himself as a hero, leading to a confused Batman returning home to see Mister Freeze in the Justice League.
It's the most absurd break in character that Batman never just... pays for Victors research. He'd get a villain off the streets and get a supergenius to design tech and medical wonders.
Many times I’m pretty sure Nora is dead, or thought to be, and Mr freeze is just taking revenge on the people responsible. Batman does often try to atleast help him with his condition, as far as I know
@@aidengray3998 He's helped freeze in different iterations? Freeze is just extraordinarily resistant to outside help because what caused his condition was someone taking his work away from him, which lead to an accident.
There's also iterations where his wife is cured and dies so he just lashes out at the world, or the woman he's trying to "cure" isn't even his wife, it's just some woman he froze and has deluded himself into thinking it's Nora
@@KotalaGod Literally just mail him wads of cash and most of his villainy goes away, and he's still building medical wonders. Yeah, in some stories he's flat out evil, but those are the boring incarnations.
@@aidengray3998 Money won't solve everything my guy.
Lets not sleep on Mysterio. Man managed to make illusions that trick freaking daredevil and wolverine, Bruce is just fighting the better trickster with more showmanship
Mysterio vs scarecrow, both are master illusionists just one uses tech and robots vs the other using bio-chemical agents
Mysterio enters daredevils life one time and he leaves him with severe Trauma,the guy has also invented gasses strong enough to muffle Spider-Mans senses
Al principio lo tomaría desprevenido pero luego se adaptaria
Dude was such a good illusionist that Norman thought he was banging Gwen Stacy.
Heck, Peter thought he was getting cucked as well; But that was all Mysterio baby.
@@Thed538dhsk Heres what i think.
Scarecrow goes specifically for his victims' fear with a toxin, and batman made an antidote and has almost nothing he's scared of, while mysterio uses technology that can't be permanently disabled with an antidote like in some stories, so in a fight Mysterio would win against batman more times than scarecrow agaist batman
I also like to factor that Spiderman's villains are genuinely much more comfortable teaming up than Batman's are.
Sure, they are still vulnerable to being manipulated into fighting each other, but Batman's rouges gallery is far more willing to turn on each other.
Sure, it's not impossible for Batman's villain's to gang up, but you always hear about a sinister six, never a collection of villains from Batman
So while Spiderman is taking down various villains who are just doing one big plan by themselves, Batman has to deal with all their talents at the same time
no comment on how Spidey's villains actually work together well and often, while Batman's villains last one arc tops and then turn on each other?
The issue with Batman’s rogues gallery, is that for the most part they show up and wreak havoc alone. This is almost always the case for the first encounter.
Otherwise you have two other situations, it’s a duo or trio teamup, or it’s a city takeover. And in those situations you always seem to get factions of villains, you always have the solos taking advantage of the chaos, you have the main threat, and then you have the supporters. Best example of this is the long Halloween, basically every single villain is on the loose, but only a handful are actually working together. And usually they are the ones that mesh well, scarecrow and ivy, joker and riddler, penguin and catwoman.
But for the most part it’s going to be duos working together, usually a mastermind, like penguin, two face, or joker, and a meta human, like Ivy, croc, bane, etc.
Outside of the 5 main ones, spideys rogues don’t really work together.
@@klo1679 wasnt bane the mastermind in his most important story?
also, while that's true, most of those villains wouldnt offer much of a challenge against peter. the penguin and 2 face for example would end up as c level. maybe the penguin could become a b level. but he isnt anywhere near someone like fisk. so i really doubt he would. croc would be a dumber version of the lizard, which means, a downgrade in threat level. cat woman would also be nowhere near someone like black cat.
overall, batman would have a much bigger issue with peter's villains, than peter would with bruce's.
the most dangerous would probably be the scarecrow, depending on how the gas affects him. but peter would probably get so pissed off, scarecrow would only use his gas on him ONCE.
also, the fact peter faces multiples of his villains at the same time, while batman is often helped by his companions make's a huge diference.
as in, peter would take longer to resolve a situation, than bruce. so bigger casualities. so there's that.
ironically enough, i feel like, bruce would mesh well with the fantastic four and the avengers. while peter would probably be overlooked when it comes to joining the JLA.
@@marcosdhelenoyeah JLA is never at a loss for powerhouses or mobility, but money and intellect are always welcome on most teams tbh.
@@RaphDeGrate I mean Peter still is intellectually superior to a plethora of characters in the League, the setback here is that he's semi-permanently broke and doesn't have much connections, if given the chance I feel like he would be on the level of someone like Mr. Terrific for example. But yeah, this is a long-winded way to say I agree, JLA would 100% overlook my guy.
@@klo1679 A lot of Spidey rogues are basically hired guns. Nearly everyone you could mention has been a part of at least one villain team. Even the freaking Lizard!
Spider-man vs Joker effectively becomes less order vs chaos and it become who two stand-up comic trying to get the best one liner to get the rise out of the other.
And honestly Spiderman wins that
I think it'd still be a very interesting fight.
It could go that way, and Spidey easily outwits and outmaneuvers Joker, but Joker has a great time laughing at Spiderman's jokes. That's a good one-shot, but then Joker eventually brings up his "one bad day" philosophy and Peter explains that that's simply not so. The Joker's mentally ill, and Peter genuinely wants to help.
That's fun. But it's only one way it could go.
Or, Spiderman whip's Joker's ass in a physical, mental, and comedic contest, and it turns out Joker hates losing. Hates being the butt of the joke. Joker's a maniac with an ego, and he wants to lash out. He wants to have the last laugh. And he refuses to accept that Peter can't be broken, because if one bad day isn't all it takes....then Joker is weak. Peter's existence says that Joker should have gotten back up and tried again. And the Joker absolutely can't accept that.
What does Peter do here? Beat him up and have the police throw him in jail? We already know that doesn't work. Peter might still want to help the Joker, but he doesn't have resources, and he doesn't have Arkham. He just has himself, and what if he can't get through before Joker hurts someone? What if he can't get through at all?
What does the Joker do? Well, he isn't stupid. He knows that Peter has lost people before, and it didn't break him. But he also thinks that Peter could snap. When Peter beat the crap out of Kingpin, he was getting revenge on someone who crossed a line. But if Joker pulled that same thing...he'd be laughing. He'd be gloating in victory.
There's also just the chance that the Joker sets up bombs or gas -- Spiderman doesn't really have the tools or resources to stop that. They could end up in a loop where Joker kills a dozen people, gets beat up and jailed, escapes and kills a thousand people, gets beat up and jailed.
What does Peter do when he reaches out to the Joker with empathy, tries to help him, shares a little bit of his own trauma and how he got back up....and then Joker uses that information to hurt him.
There's a lot of dynamics to play with. It'd be interesting to see a dozen writers all do their own "What if" -- I think Spiderman wins and it's a fun time in seven of them, Spiderman stops joker but it's not a moral victory in three, and Joker wins (by his own standards) in the last two.
The best Spider-Man vs The Joker fight was done in Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker when Terry actually decided to laugh at the Joker and run his smart mouth at him.
Give me you best Spider-Man vs Joker quips. And GO!
@@brianmoyachiuz905 I will not
I will always say Joker will really hate Spider-Man, maybe even more than Bats because of two reasons:
1. Peter, no matter what version, will ALWAYS be funnier than Joker. Joker's ego can't stand for being a punchline punching bag, look at what happened with Terry.
2. Peter being Spider-Man is the biggest sledgehammer at The Joker's "One Bad Day" philosophy. Peter pretty much has bad days on the regular with the two standing out being Uncle Ben and Gwen's death. Even after everything, he will somehow someway always try to do the right thing; even if he gets nothing from it.
There is also the fact that Peter KNOWS when to drop the Spider-Man act and be just Peter Parker. If Joker even hints at threatening May or MJ, that's it. PETER PARKER is fighting the Joker, not spider-man
@@pyrotechnic1818 woe be the Batman villain who becomes the demonstration on why you DO NOT, under ANY circumstances, make things personal with Peter
@@pyrotechnic1818 Yeah and ugh...Joker would still get wreck. Not even the Joker kill switch is stopping Peter from insulting Joker in a cathartic, comical, and dangerous way.
Joker doesn't hate Batman at all, though, so of course he would hate Spider-Man "more than Batman" because it would be more than zero.
@@DavidRYates-tk2tq Eh depends on the continuinty. Joker used to just want to kill batman as opposed to the whole "i love him" stuff
"We'll only be using the mainline versions of the characters" *proceeds to use every spiderman timeline for him and his villains' feats*
If Peter fough Bane, imagine the shear ammount venom/Venom puns that would happen.
It'd theoretically end pretty quickly though. Even at his strongest, Bane's weaker than Peter.
dude i said this before, bane would end up as a c tier villain. he would become a bigger joke than the rhino,
and god forbid he tries to pull that knightfall bullshite on him.
i can already picture it, peter just standing still as bane throws a punch, and breaks his hand on peter's jaw, with peter just there, imobile, looking at him without saying a word.
lets be honest, no matter how tiered from fighting peter would be, if bane even touched a loved one of his, it would be bane who would end up with a broken back.
Or, hear me out, Venom fights Bane while Spider-Man watches.
@robertlombardo8437 more like Peter tries to save Bane from Venom... (Bane is my favorite DC villain, but canon Bane is punching bag in Marvel world). That's why I prefer to imagine that if Bane appeared in Marvel, he would try to improve venom drug with... Hulk's blood, for example.
@@robertlombardo8437 Bane’s not coming out of that matchup alive, but at least Venom’s hunger for brains might be satiated for a time.
Kraven vs Batman is honestly perfect. Partly because Kraven is Bruce’s senior by a few decades. I could see Bruce having trained under Kraven as part of his mission to become Gotham’s savior, learning how to track and hunt from him. Then Kraven comes to Gotham to hunt all the interesting game in the city. Killer Croc, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy, etc.
The funniest scenario born of this is that Kraven and Ras are actually acquaintances and have monthly chess matches. Ras once tried to question Kraven about immortality to see if Kraven would ever try and use one of his Lazarus Pits, and Kraven stated something along the lines of:
“I have no interest in extending *this* life. I have lived my life by the hunt. And I await the day it claims me.”
Yeah, this whole video just makes me want to see Batman VS Kraven. And also Batman VS Mysterio. Annnnnd Spider-Man science-ing it out with Mr. Freeze. I...dammit, somebody go start writing some fanfics!
I like this idea a lot.
Real @@jacksongreen4107
Another interesting thing is that the Kraven family has a thing where they deal with Legacies. Sometimes a son of Kraven will take the mantel, and the look, and try to succeed their father. Then said father returns and takes back the mantle.
I can see Kraven’s children fighting other members of the Batfamily as a right of passage
I agree with Gramuglia that Kraven and Batman are very similar, and almost funhouse mirror images of each other. But there are 3 key differences, Gramuglia mentioned some but I think he missed two I find important, though I think others have brought up to some degree. Kraven is a Hunter where Batman is a Detective. Kraven is willing to Kill where Batman is not and strives his hardest to not kill. But here's another important one - Kraven is seeking a good death against a great adversary, he has a death wish, and Batman does not. Those latter two points are what I think make Kraven especially dangerous for Batman.
Yeah you hit the nail on the head with the "prep time" myth. Prep time is how comic books are structured (hell, its how most stories of heroes defeating villains is structured)
Villain shows up, defeats hero, evades them, outwits them, in some way gets the upper hand. Hero goes back to drawing board, thinks about how they need to approach this villain. Maybe the villain is unrelenting and they have to stall for time and drag out a fight so they can think. Ultimately, hero outsmarts and defeats villain. Spidey does it, Superman does it, every hero in comics does it.
Most of Spider-Man's villains don't have anything super, mostly technology or highly intelligent, which is where Batman excels. He has Wayne Enterprises and is considered the second smartest human on Earth. The ones who have powers are pretty easy to defeat (yes, they are, and don't pull on me with these absurd feats without addressing the consistency as stories have inconsistencies as many heroes and villains showed up illogical feats or feats that don't align with their story consistency or have temporary power-ups, or in certain cases, that's just plot armor or giving a feat without giving the context so no, Rhino can't even rival Hulk and Batman can easily avoid Electro's magnetism by using metals that can't be magnetized(like titanium which he actually shown or stated that he use it sometimes). Sandman, as much as his power should be terrifying, he gets defeated pretty easily. And Carnage or Venom's evolutionary adaptation for fire and sound isn't a common occurrence, or in certain cases, and no, we don 't include the temporary power-ups they get. And even if we include their evolutionary adaptations, what makes you think he can't take a sample of them and make a poison for them that completely ends them?)
For Rhino, he can just fight him the same way he fought Killer Croc and Solomon Grundy. For Kingpin again, he defeated the likes of Solomon Grundy and Killer Croc, and the others are oblivious. Kingpin, even with his combat skills, is nothing compared to Batman, who has fought mafias before (Penguin, Black Mask, Two-Face, White Shark, and Falcone family crime organizations and many, many mobs, gangs, and mafias. Hell, Gotham is an infestation for organized crime). For Kraven, Batman has fought and trained with the strongest assassins and martial artists in his universe. Kraven is nothing. And finally, Sandman has a very exploitable weakness that doesn't even need prep time or his detective skills to know about.
Also, Morlun doesn't just feed on anyone that takes an animal as his totem, it isn't just about that. Spider-Man's case is unique and has mystical/cosmic connections according to Spider-Man mythos as the inheritors feed on totemic avatars and gods (and no, that's not the case with Batman and Barbatos especially since the claims and narration in Dark Nights: Metal are by unreliable characters). Also, the thing Spider-Man did to him wasn't by prep-time (except if you're gonna make it have a broad definition). What Spider-Man did, or what happened to Spider-Man more correctly, is that he was lucky to have the weakness appear in front of him. It was a situational thing, not by planning.
Also, what most people (even some of his fans) don't understand about Batman is it's not the prep-time, but it's Batman's intelligence and capability because by that logic any hero or a villain when given prep-time is a god, but that's not how it is because everyone has prep-time, heroes or villains, because as you said prep-time is how comic books are structured, not just comic books but all stories, and Batman's villains also use prep-time all the time and don't give Batman enough prep-time as they always plan for him but he defeats them with his intelligence. It's popular with Batman because he is a special case as he is the second smartest human on Earth and the best master strategist and the greatest detective. Like, did any of you guys read his comics?
Also, there's no definitive answer in the comics themselves about whether Superman was holding back while mind-controlled by Poison Ivy or is it because Ivy didn't want them to die but to capture him or was it a part of Hush's plan or it's just a plot hole because there is no explicit clarification in Batman: Hush comic. Also, Batman defeated the entire Justice League and they weren't holding back in Scott Snyder's run of Batman in Endgame arc where the Justice League is intoxicated by Joker gas and it's explicitly stated that Superman wasn't holding back. The writer tried to make Batman win as a draw by making Batman saying that neither of them will win even though it was a clear win for Batman and that's why you shouldn't take the writer as the one who can end or answer the debate because he can just be wrong or doesn't understand what he implies by the events he makes. So depending on the writer is just braindead appeal to authority fallacy and completely ignores the concept of the death of the author.
@@newmobils8294 that is a lot of words and not a single period. Also it seems to have nothing to do with my comment, but I only skimmed that three sentence mess.
@@LordZaayl it is related but English isn't my first language and I didn't end editing it till now
@@newmobils8294 My comment was about the myth/meme of "batman with prep time" what does an essay about Spider-Man's villains have to do with it.
And then heres Batman who just produces an entire Titan suit to overpower the villain out of nowhere.
Assuming they’re just isekai-ed into each other’s world, no way Batman would let himself be known until he had his proper amount of prep time for spider-man’s New York.
I feel like that assumes a version of batman who is willing to let innocent people die that he could have saved just so he can prepare for the heavy hitters of the city.
He also wouldn't have his main super power
His money
What would really unnerve the Joker is that Peter Parker also had a bad day… and as a result he became Spider Man, a hero who serves his city despite being ridiculed and punished for it constantly.
So did Batman for that matter. What would break joker in that is that Spider-Man has had so many bad days, and in general has a miserable life. For all of the bad Batman has gone through, he still has a decent life.
After a certain point, Joker just starts being REALLY NICE to Peter. This, of course, freaks Spiderman out.
@@raenkord7881 Imagine If everything bad that has happened to Peter in multiple versions happaned to one Peter. And that Peter is still Spidey who tells Joker about his bad days. Joker would just short curcuit from not understanding how Spidey is still the good guy
Hell, Peter's "One Bad Day"...s have progressively made him a BETTER person than he was before.
Batman vs Kraven would feel much like Batman vs Shredder.
Two warriors that easily acknowledge each other's skill, and immediately see each other as a tool to sharpen their own skills.
You're more like describing Taskmaster.
It will be like Batman vs Bane but super senses and enhanced human strength.
Except Kraven has enhanced superhuman physical capabilities
People are forgetting that Spider-Man villains are extremely powerful. If Batman has no preptime, he would get wrecked.
A tale of two batmen. The first is Gotham batman you know the detective the man we all know and love. Then you have the justice league batman. Which is leagues above the other batman. He has fought planetary threats literal Gods and became a God. Base justice league batman can take on parrademons you know the apocalypse monsters that rip concrete apart like its made of wet paper. No preparation for that batman. But base Gotham batman yeah not getting much done even with preparation.
@@nathanprice6189 :o Good point
Not really since most of their villains are similar:
1. Black cat vs catwoman
2. Lizard vs killer croc
3. Venom vs bane
4. Green goblin vs joker
5. Kingpin vs penguin
6. Doc Ock vs riddler
7. Sandman vs clayface
8. Vulture vs firefly
9. Shocker vs Mr freeze kinda
10. Mysterio vs scarecrow
Batman prepares for no prep-time.
Batman has prep time for his prep time.
“Deathstroke’s reaction is not fast enough” I know a certain speedster, in fact the fastest one, that would disagree…
My first thought when I saw the video thumbnail, "A Batman venom-suit arc would be awesome."
That sounds more like something that Iron Man would do...
There is a comic called "Batman: Venom" (ironically) where Bats uses a modified version of the venom Bane uses. It gives better strength but starts to damage his mind and codes, in the end Batman stops using this venom after he realizes what's happening to him.
I believe a story with the symbiote would be similar
@@antonitocotter447That IS something that Iron Man did. Namely, the Endo-Sym Armor from the Superior Iron Man series.
"Or Green Lantern's. . . versatile abilities."
"Hal, your weakness is the color Yellow."
Not anymore
@@joeda900I’m sure somewhere, deep in his mind, he still shutters when he sees it. Just an involuntary reflex. It doesn’t affect his day to day life nor his ability to be a hero… but when he goes to sleep at night, his dreams turn to nightmares of a yellow hellscape that he cannot escape until the morning comes and he wakes up.
There was a time it was _wooden objects_ .
*You could kill multiple green lanterns with a no2 pencil*
@@spacebearcadet746
I seriously want to know what idiot came up with that and why...
Peter dosent have a no kill rule. He just CHOOSES not to kill
Isn't that the dame thing? They are both a limit that each respective hero puts upon themselves.
@@thepsychicspoon5984 there is a difference, Batman rule is set in stone and he would never kill of his own free will
Spiderman however will Kill , or try to if Pushed far enough or he sees no other options, but will Hate having to have done so,
@@milesedgeworth3667 I disagree.
There IS a difference, and it's Morals. Batman has the 'Rule', because he is always tempted and has to remind himself, all the time, constantly "Don't break the 1 rule".
But Spiderman doesn't have a rule, because he doesn't NEED a rule. Killing someone NEVER Crosses his mind at all. He never needs to remind himself to NOT kill, cause he is morally BETTER than Batman who needs to constantly remind himself.
you stole that from superman, and spidey does have a no kill rule... thats like the foundation of his character
I kinda assume the no kill rule only existed so that they don't kill popular villans and use them for many stories or in the case of animated series, to stay PG and kid friendly.
The films in the other hand can kill because they can always change the actors and make movies with different and clear countinuities. Plus they don't use the same villan for the sequel most of the time since they know they had to pay the villan actor more money next time so it's better to have a new villan[there are acceptions]
Honestly, a lot of Batman and Spider-Man villains have the same gimmicks.
-a cat-themed burglar with a love-connection to the hero
-a large, strong character with a personal grudge against the hero and some level of dependancy on what gives them their strength
-a form shifting villain that used to be purely human before an accident turned them into a monster
-a mentally unstable villain that acts as the main villain of the hero.
-a reptilian villain
-a villain based around illusions and misdirections
It's almost as if one set of villains was copied from the other set. DC was first, right?
@@jimwolaver9375 DC is almost always first. Marvel Bites off DC constantly. Which is why DC is and always will be better imo.
@@CodoNamus I know, and I agree. My comment was rhetorical, but it's nice to see another well-read commenter reach the same conclusions I did. Thank you!
@@jimwolaver9375I concur it’s great to see other intelligent people who know the truth. God bless brother in Jesus name I pray.
@@CodoNamus bro DC being better is just an opinion and plus DC bites not just marvel but other companies almost as much
People need to remember that the final part of Batman's Beat Superman Plan in TDK was 'fake a massive heart attack before Superman gets his second wind'
Huh? I think Batman also mentioned how easy it'll be to make s far more lethal kryptonite mix.
And in part 2 he wrecked Superman without even breaking a sweat
@Rengokuo4o6 "I didn't have to go easy, a binding agent a stronger mix. No, I just needed to remind you to *stay out of my way.* in all the years to come, in your most private moments, I want yoy to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember *the one man who beat you*"
@@pyrotechnic1818Superman has beaten batman more times than batman has beaten superman.
@vaderkurt7848 not true at all.
The fact that people are having more fun imagining how this villain switch would create funny/interesting interactions instead of how 'cool' the heroes are to be able to beat them really proves your point at the end.
The greatest thing about batman and spiderman is that their rogues galleries are hands down better than other heroes that they didn't need crossovers as much as other heroes do.
I could sit down and watch either hero in their own pocket universe and enjoy them in their own, jn fact I miss them being on their own sometimes...
I do agree on that. Flash and Superman have good villains as well
@@johnnybeatmaker330 My only gripe with Flash is that usually all of his rogues recently have been made Speedsters, it's OK when they are on Boomerang's level in which they aren't Speedster but are Speed-force sensitive which explains why they can hurt or even counter flash when he comes real close.
Spider-Man and Batman are both street level heroes and that's what makes them special. They don't need to go to space and do multiverse to give a good movie.
Daredevil, Fantasitic Four, X-men, Justice leauge, Teen Titans they have great rouges gallery too.
“These different variations don’t apply to each other until they’re convenient to my argument”
We all not at all worried about Venom getting its hands on Batman?
That's just spawn
With Batman's willpower, I doubt a symbote could control him. Now if they joined on equal terms bat-venom would be a nightmare.
@ravenovf7817 rember venom is only bad because a little bit of the host will always be in venom. Batmans got some real mental problems going he's definitely gonna make venom worse.
@@TraceyTra-kv1xe yeah hence why he would be a nightmare. First thing he would do is straight eat the joker.
@ravenovf7817 Yeah, and then he would blame venom and fail to understand that it's not really venoms fault. it's just a victim of trauma that people make into to a monster.
Venom would be a very poetic batman fo but the best are.
Killer Croc: "I threw a rock at him!"
Spider-Man: "Good for you buddy. Proud of you."
Killer Croc: "...it was a big rock."
Spider-Man: "I believe yo...wait, how big are we talkin' here?"
Spidey: "Lifts a whole building", was it this big or should i get something bigger?
Killer Croc: "visible confusion".
That was also batman disguised as killer croc. Implying that batman either thought that was how croc acted, or that was actually what gave him a run for his money.
@@KaijuKinnieI'm choosing to believe that Batman was being honest. Like everyone is sharing their stories how they almost killed the Bat, but the only time he was scared was when Croc threw a rock at him.
@@Nuggette i mean... it was a BIG rock
I think Spidey would really enjoy swinging around Gotham with it's architecture
I pretty sure they would worship him better then New York.
@@isaiahkayode6526 Gotham is ruthless. Spider-Man would die in DC, even if he could handle Batman's villains. The Joker and those guys wouldn't respect or care about Spider-Man. The public are more harsh because the place isn't as nice. He'd be treated like a huge clown. Gotham would only respect someone like Omni man.
@@TheTyroofToriyamaspiderman is constantly clowned in his own city. Its not that difficult for him to clean Gotham.
@@TheTyroofToriyama since when did villains in New york respect or care about Spider-man? and since when did New york not treat spiderman like a clown?
Don't think he'd appreciate the constant rain but it would give him some good practice in bad weather fights and an excuse for a new Gotham styled waterproof suit
I think the story of Spidey being dropped in Gotham goes as follows:
Spidey is up day and night, saving people with 0 rest. He hears whispers of bigger bads, who have become careful about their operations due to Spideys appearance. He stumbles onto something bigger, after a couple weeks of ceasless activity. That will be when he falls into 1 of the villains, who has been planning for a while, traps. They're trap would be mostly successful but he gets away. Not without suffering a beating. He is forced to actually rest. He puts his day in day out activities on a brief hold to formulate a plan to deal with the much greater threat. The next time they meet goes heavily in Spider-Man's favor.
Thats the intro story imo.
Spidey getting overwhelmed by Scarecrow's toxin would be super interesting to see, but sadly, something that would only work once.
Meanwhile, I would love to see an entire series where Peter and Bruce switched universes. To see Batman struggle against Spider-Man's heaviest hitters and just barely winning would be a phenomenal story.
Batman versus the Sinister Six would be the end of Batman. There is no way even with prep time he could "magic bullet" his way through six supervillains at once that consistently beat Spiderman when they work together.
Unless, of course, the story is about how Batman unravels the plot and in turn figures out a way to beat them individually or force them to turn on one another.
@@jodinsan Yeah, no, Batman loses that fight EASILY. But seeing him uses his mind to defeat them, instead of his fighting skills, would be such a fun read.
@@jodinsan If Batman has prep time you have to imagine he would upgrade his suit
I mean it kinda happens in far from home
@@jodinsan I would imagine Batman`s first fight with S6 would be in the first half of the story, ending with him fleeing and hiding from them for a time. Then the rest of the story is Batman unraveling their secret plot and carefully dismantling it, probably while confronting the weakest of the S6 on their own. Then in the final showdown, Batman uses his intel on the villains to make the them fight each other while sabotaging their plan. In other words that would`ve been an amazing underdog story for Batman.
Refusing to answer the Riddler's riddle's will probably result in someone dying though. Batman doesn't like answering them either, but he does because it's how he stops Riddler's bombs or rescues his hostages.
Isn't riddler just the Batman version of Doc Ock?
@@Thed538dhsk Not really?
Doc Ock is essentially a cyborg, Riddler is just a guy.
Doc Ock is a nuclear physicist and roboticist; Riddler is has some scientific and engineering skill but he's primarily a logic and trivia guy.
Ock is a megalomaniac who wants to accumulate money and power; Riddler is mostly out to prove he is smarter than everyone else.
Ock is short and pudgy, Riddler is average sized and lean.
I'd say Ock is closer to the Penguin- a short, ugly genius who wants to be respected and is widely considered the "second arch-enemy" of his superhero; Riddler doesn't really have a neat equivalent in the Spider-rogues gallery although you could argue he's closer to Mysterio than Scarecrow is in terms of role, goals and motivations.
@@jonathancampbell5231 i disagree. Riddler is the intellectual foil to Batman. Doc Ock is the intellectual foil to spiderman. To defeat each villian typically both heroes must outsmart their villains not brute strength or combat. Yes octavius is a cyborg but in goals he also tries to outsmart or thinks he's outsmarted Spiderman. Penguins motivations imo fit more along the lines of kingpin. But yes technically Batman and Spiderman share no exact riddler or doc Ock comparisons im just comparing how they are foils for our heroes. Technically being a cyborg for superman metallo would more resemble Superman's doc Ock but as a foil lex Luther typically fits that role. I view it as who resembles the same foils to the heroes
I dunno. I think one can argue that Peter would be capable of outsmarting some of Riddler’s schemes without defeating the riddle. The real funny part would be if Spider-man nonchalantly answers a riddle instantly.
I feel like Spider-Man would at least humor the Riddler and answer one of them while making fun of the Riddler's schtick
I really want Spiderman to help Mister Freeze, that alone would be a touching story for me. Cause we all know freeze is one of the most sympathetic villain
Agreed. I honestly feel that if Freeze was able to accomplish his goal in rescuing his wife. He would immediately change his ways and become a heroic character after that.
@@XRioteerXBoyXI'd Read a whole Comic Series of these two trying and succeeding, and then a Freeze who changes his ways. His wife Safe and Unfrozen, now he's turned over a new leaf.
Batman tried to help freeze. Freeze is an ass and betrays batman so spiderman wouldnt be able to either. Also with all the crap batman makes its funny to say that spiderman is a better scientist
But Fries’ first impression of Spidey would be absolutely horrible, because of all the ice puns, and that would delay the two working together (which, let’s be real here, the two would need to co-operate to make real progress) by quite a long time
@@jacobellis2313 I mean, he probably is the better scientist. The problem is that batman can and will just outsource the solution if he can't come up with it himself. A large quantity of the items batman uses aren't entirely designed by him, just modified or applied differently
12:00 I don't think spidey would ignore the Riddler's riddles, but intentionally get them wrong he's canonically bad at riddles and usually finds a way around them or overanalyzes them to the point riddler would have to give him the answer. So same problem as the joker
Or Peter is always on his phone whenever Riddler give him a Riddle and Riddler thanks he’s cheating and looking up the answers when he gets them right and then Riddler looks at the camera and see he’s just on Reddit or something like that so he’s getting all the answers correct while not paying attention
The more interesting situation of swapping their Villains is keeping the core of the characters
Say we give batman enough tech to keep up with spider-man's foes
How much would peter sacrifice to save the broken people of Gotham? How would his sense of responsibility work in such a broken city
And at the same time. kraven, goblin, carnage, they would make batman struggle mentally far more than joker ever could, imagine kraven trying more and more to force the legendary bat to kill him, unable to bring himself to kill such a perfect hunt but desperate to die at his hands
Norman would be playing chess with bruce, every fight, every failure of the goblin, just a way to give Norman more information on how to exploit the bat as bruce has to outwit these background plans with his own
Kingpin and octavious would both be using every other criminal to find a weakness an exploit, kingpin in particular using overwhelming numbers as bruce needs to either stop each crime and risk falling into the trap or go for the force and risk facing someone who is as strong as bane and knows every legal excuse imaginable to turn any action the bat takes against him
Batman would have to deal with so many mind games in order to keep his principles without these foes exploiting them
While spider-man would have to work harder than ever to live up to this new responsibility of such a broken city
The swap would risk breaking both of them mentally, yet they may both have the better tools to help these new foes than they did against their own and these two ideas make the swap truly interesting
THISSSSSS !!!!!!
The implication that Batman sacrifices more than Peter does is hilarious.
@@Blue-EyesWhitePrivilege where did I imply that?
Kind of curious how the cities would think of them too. Spidey is kind and visible and, well the "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" while Batman tries to be a terror to villains
How would the people of Gotham take to Spidey's light personality, or New York with Bat's dark one?
@@followeroftheprince another great thing to consider
Spiderman v batmans entire rogues gallery at once:
Oh, look. It's tuesday.
"it's an interesting and new Tuesday but still."
pretty much, let alone how he is used to fighting most of them at the same time. the fact almost every batman villain can be considered a downgrade from a spiderman villain(in terms of power) is enough to make him not have to worry. bane would basically end up at a worst place than the rhino, since he would be far easier for peter to deal with.
and god forbid if bane even thinks of hurting one of spiderman's loved ones in his version of knightfall. bane would be the one with his back broken.
hell i can even imagine peter just standing still imobile, as bane throws a punch and breaks his hand. with peter just looking at him without saying a word.
yeah, dude would go back to wherever crawlhole he came from pretty quick after that.
Same for Batman facing Spiderman's entire rogue gallery at once.
@@ValeTheOwl batman would die to green goblin in five minutes. Rhino wouldn't just bane him, he'd rip the man in half. SHOCKER would be a major struggle. Objectively speaking, much of Peter's enemies are just more dangerous versions of Batmans. And he already struggles.
@@mutilator97 Batman can take on the entire Justice League at once and win, so there is no way he would be defeated by the likes of GG, Rhino or Shocker.
The thing is that Batman keeps himself willfully weak in order to avoid an escalation of power and keep collateral damage (and therefore civilian casualties) to a minimum, but he already has several Iron Man-tier Batsuits in his arsenal, like the Batman Beyond suit or the Justice Buster. If all that is required to take down Spiderman's villains is bigger guns, he has them and then some.
If anything it's Peter that would struggle more, because a LOT of Gotham villains are not mindless brutes like Rhino. They don't show themselves in the open, they organize and plot in the shadow and require detective skills to be found out. And while Spiderman is very, VERY smart himself, Batman actually outclass him by several magnitudes when it comes to detective work.
I don't think anyone has taken into account that Spidey's villains are used to fighting someone they've never been able to sneak up on.
Are they used to fighting someone that will sneak up and attack them before they notice?
@jacobellis2313 yeah, Spider-man is known to do stealth
@@iwishiunderstood159so is Batman
@@dtl2405
Spider-Man is so great at stealth, that not even Daredevil has been able to notice him. He's also snuck around military bases undetected with ease.
Yes, Batman is stealthy too, but Spider-Man is even better.
@@jacobellis2313 You're really underestimating Spider-man's Spider sense if that's your counter-argument to the original commentor.
Spider sense is so broken that it can detect evil intentions. The fact that Spidey's villains were able to find a way to sneak up on Spidey is a testament to their brilliance and terrifying capabilities.
If you put them against Batman, Batman suddenly becomes a sticking nail on concrete.
Spider sense unintentionally helped Spidey's villains to become terrifyingly good at stealth.
I love where this conversation ends up at the end and how the earlier villain comparison frames it. Batman's villains are weaker for a reason, and Spider-Man's villains are stronger for a reason. Batman needs to have relatively easy to defeat villains because the crux of his stories is figuring out what, how, and sometimes even who they are, AND the emotional turmoil they cause in bats because of his code, guilt, etc. Meanwhile with Spider-Man, the interesting part is facing adversities head on, and pushing through even when the odds are clearly stacked against him. Spider-Man is about inexperience and growth, always facing a new and bigger challenge than before, and growing in some way to solve it. Batman is more about the emotional journey of how the crimes and the people effect Bats, while Spidey is more about the emotional journey of the solution. Batman's villains make him feel, and Spidey's villains make him grow. Therefore Batman's villains don't need to increase in power because they can always effect Batman emotionally in different ways, while Spidey will always need his villains to have a new trick or higher strength to have a Spidey story where he learns something new and changes.
"Do you think I would risk the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with you?" I don't think most would choose to risk their victory conditions on hand to hand combat.
Meanwhile in [insert your favourite Yakuza game here]
"Stop hinging the fate of the world on death matches!"
I find it kinda funny that for a lot of batman's vilains the solution is "they wouldn't be perceived as villains"
Yeah, the closest thing to Spidey's personality in DC, is the Flash, who often gifts his villains things during holidays. There's a reason Flash held the league together morally
Most of Batman’s villains are so much weaker than spider man that he doesn’t need to consider them as villains.
@@kellyevans3254 Well it's not just a power thing, it's also an outlook thing and morality thing. Batman is primarily an enforcer of the law, he stops crimes, chaos and things that don't follow his morale code. Spiderman helps people, he doesn't focus on stopping rules from being broken but rather on stopping people from getting harmed. In practice these can often ovrlap but with characters like catwoman the dynamic would be very different.
@@georgekatkus5162well that and the fact that flash's main villains generally have a rule against killing innocent's or speedsters. They're not always irredeemable monsters, unlike 90% of Batman's villains
Wich is ironic considering that Flash nemesis (reverse flash) is probably the biggest monster in DC universe @@mrpersonmanthing5572
People forget how much Peter holds back his punches. Doc Oct found out when he stole Peter’s body and was freaked out.
Bro punched scorpions jaw CLEAN
@@christophersamueldearlysih262 which tbh makes zero sense. Scorpion has the same exact power scale as Peter.
@@CyberBlastoise Debatable. Scorpion was created to match or surpass Peter back when he was a teenager. It's canon that Peter has gotten stronger since then, both from getting older and just physically maturing, but also how much he fights and pushes his powers, compared to Scorpion who just...doesn't really. It's not unthinkable that Scorpion hasn't gotten any stronger since he became Scorpion, while Peter has.
While Superman pulls his punches, why would Spider-man?
@@kiillabytez because Peter doesn’t want to kill people.
On your topic about Batman driving a tank:
I'd agree that it's generally a mistake to hand Batman a ton of firepower. Basically, a lot of what makes Batman cool is his ability to use strategy to win despite not having a lot of power. So handing him super weapons kind of misses the point, at least if you're not careful.
Spidey not only has the brains to easily keep up with any Batman villain, he also has the power to dominate any of them, even the likes of Bane or Killer Croc. Meanwhile, in a straight-up fight, Batman is getting ripped to shreds by any Spider-Man rogue without significant prep time. Joker specifically would consider Spider-Man to be an absolute nightmare, because he's both funnier than the Joker (something that completely sets Joker off) and because his entire life is proof that Joker's philosophy that one bad enough day can turn anybody as crazy as him is entirely wrong. Spidey's life is nothing but bad days, and it hasn't broken him.
Exactly 💯.
didn't spider-man basically throw his whole life away when his aunt died once? and another time he nearly became a killer over it too
spider-man has an exploitable emotional side, I wouldn't put it past the joker to find a way to mess with him just for fun and out of spite
fax batman is folded and humiliated
I always hate it when people say meeting Spider-Man would break Joker’s “one bad day” philosophy. Jason Todd’s life has been nothing but bad days and he is still fundamentally good, working to help people. He just does it like a spy, taking out threats before they can kill anyone else. Spider-Man is great, but you don’t need a crossover to break “one bad day”. Joker is desperately clinging on to that excuse, but he doesn’t really believe it. He doesn’t need to, excuses are for other people to hear.
Haha spiderman fanboy.
Batman against Spidey villains: this is why I have a no meta rule in Gotham (still beats the crap out of the vast majority of them)
Spidey fighting against Batman villains: hello good sir, do you need me to take you back to the asylum?
Joker VS Spider-Man can only go two ways (let the author of the story decide). Either Peter annoy Joker so much he quits being a villain, or Joker makes all of Gotham thank Batman for being so strict with his no kill rule
Batman sees Electro once and then shows up with a costume full of lead
I always found the idea that Batman villains would try to “break” Spider-Man laughable. Outside of Joker and Scarecrow most of them would just try to kill him and fail horribly, Croc is weaker lizard, Fire fly is weaker Beetle, Clayface is weaker sandman, Bane is weaker Tarantula/Venom, and two face and Penguin are just guys
Bane is more like Kingpin
@@gapsule2326Except Kingpin is a dangerous fighter; He has almost 0 fat on him and the dude at a point was the best fighter within the Hand.
@@boxtupos7718I’d say Bane is a pretty dangerous fighter too, though I haven’t seen a lot of him so I don’t really know, just assuming cuz he’s all smart and strong and stuff
@@boxtupos7718 Insinuating Bane isn't a dangerous fighter despite going toe to toe with; and frequently beating Batman, both in and out of suit, is kind of crazy. Bane is not only extremely strong, he's also extremely intelligent and can often rally people towards his cause.
Bane is closer to Kraven to me. Both are pretty much just in it for the bragging rights of beating an unbeatable hero. Both a master strategists and martial artists. Both use some sort of chemical to enhance their abilities.
Spider-Man would beat Batman's villains but he'd be so horribly traumatised by the experience.
Green Goblin would be a NIGHTMARE to Batman.
Goblin would be a great threat to Batman.
But Norman Osborn would be a threat to BRUCE WAYNE. If he found out Batman's secret identity, he'd do everything within his power to ruin his personal and financial life.
If Norman suddenly saw Bruce Wayne move Wayne Enterprises into New York he'd probably still do that just because it would be able to push back against whatever monopolies Oscorp might have.
And what's scarier is that he's legit saner than Two-Face; he's more self-aware and can switch between his two personalities on a fly.
Ok but why would Green Goblin be any bigger of a threat to Batman than Lex Luthor? They’re both brilliant business men with custom gadgets, and corporations that essentially own the cities they operate in
Except Lex doesn’t go insane and irrational as often as Norman does
@@bobjones4762He would be a bigger threat hes lex with super strength who gets down with the hands and has a slight healing factor bats would be in some deep shit
Freeze: Why are you helping me, Arachnid?
Spider-Man: ...Because I don't want to watch another great mind fall because of one mistake.
Meanwile:
Kraven: And here, I thought the Spider was the most dangerous game.
Batman: I'm not a trophy. I'm the one who hangs them.
Ijbol, Kraven won't say that to Batman, because of how easy he'll pack him up
@@samuraisings5105 I was more thinking he's being sarcastic.
@@thegrandxbunny2073 oh 😂😂😂, cuz Kraven takes down bat really easy
I love how like 10 spidey villains have reformed. He is doing something right.
@@samuraisings5105
Lol, I would doubt that very much.
5:39 They're not gonna look up for a guy crawling on the ceiling but they're used to looking up for batman who always comes jumping in from the top rope 🤣
That Part lol
Then saying the joker is simply the goblin without powers. Major L in that regard.
Not to mention all Spider-Man’s villains have the inspiration from Batman’s villains
@@bman1235 Also the fact Spider-Man's quips and mocking could probably break Joker. Batman Beyond did something similar and Joker looked like he was having an existential crisis (as the video mentions). Peter could no doubt do worse.
He was so wrong on many things. Thats why he went from would lose to harder.
Marvel and DC take inherently different approaches to writing. Marvel's stories are centered around characters, while DC's are centered around concepts.
Spider-Man screws up in a major way, and now he's trying to recover from his mistake, usually at a great cost.
Batman's stories are usually about villains exploiting his traumas, and his stories often pose philosophical questions. What if the gods turned against humanity? Should anyone have that much power? Is Batman really just one bad day away from becoming the Joker?
It was Hulk and Thor for your Stan Lee quote. He said when he wrote it it was Thor because Hulk was the strongest a human can get but Thor was a god. If I'm remembering correct he also said that it may not be the case now, and what the current writers needs is what is most important.
People dont understand that Spidey is always pulling his punches because he is super strong. Hes just built different
People also don't understand that Spidey's villains are also aware that he's pulling punches so most of them do the same out of fear that he might stop doing so.
I remember that one comic whare Peter gets sick and couldn't talk so when he went to stop some bad guys he was silent. The sheer terror on some of their faces got me laughing so hard I was on the floor bro. The fools legit almost pissed their pants because they thought that Spidey was currently pissed and that he might no hold back against them.
And when he doesn't pull them and goes maskoff... Let's just say his victory ratio is basically 1 at that point.
@@kriegerh That's fucking hilarious.
Eg, Doc Ock takes over Peter’s body and shatters Scorpion’s jaw with one punch because he wasn’t holding back, (Scorpion being a superhuman in power armor, specifically designed to fight Spider-Man)
@danielwesley5051 that was stupid. Scorpion was stronger than spiderman and was meant to be a physical foe to outsmart
Now he's stupid and weak...
Cux he was never the bright guy.
Not rhino strong but a weaker but much faster brute.
And a not trying doc oc spiderman did it.
At this rate venom should be a wimp
Except venom is popular...and so is green goblin who was weaker than spiderman and relies on tech, speed and smiliar strength level
Plus Spidey Holding back for a edge.
Idc if spiderman is strong him being able to kill his gallery without trying is stupid and makes the point of any fight meangliess.
I like the idea of Spiderman helping Riddler find healthy outlets, and generally finding non punchy ways to help Batman's Rogues
Off the top of my head: Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, and possibly even Two-Face could also all likely get the spider therapy talk.
Some of them that would work, but the reason most of them don't get help is because they are genuinely insane, not just in a bad situation. They need more than an outlet, or a talk to be healthy. If it was that simple then Batman, or more likely Bruce Wayne would of done it a long time ago.
@@acidaspida8885 I Disagree. Batman seems much more of a "You broke the law. You go to prison. Period. No exception!" And once in Prison, he leaves, and never interacts with them again unless he has to.
Spiderman, however, will let them go if they aren't hurting people. Poison Ivy, for example, is happy if she is isolated alone in a forest or plant situated place, and able to just enjoy living and working with her Plants. I could SEE Peter Parker actively working WITH HER, setting up a lab for plants, to help people with benefiting plants, and keeping people out of her location so they can't harm her plants and drive her mad with anger and revenge. Look at Lizardman, who retains his human mind. Spider man helps him, and employs him, and when the Lizard mind takes over, beats him up to stop him, SAVES him, then releases him to keep working. Except for the Sinister 6, MOST of Spider Man villains actually go to jail, cause Spider man HELPS them.
Batman NEVER helps any of the villains. Ever. I don't think there is a single comic, cartoon episode, or movie where Batman actually works with, employees, and helps the villains even when they break the law. Perfect example? Mr. Freeze. Every single instance of Mr Freeze vs Batman, Mr Freeze ALWAYS ends up in jail. Period. Under Spiderman tho, Spiderman would HELP him cure his own disease, cure his wife, and both fund and work with him for those cures. Spiderman actually CARES about the villains, when they aren't just evil for the sake of evil, and WILL actively go out of his way to help and save them.
@@Jirodyne he got two face surgery to help him. He helped the one little girl reality warper. There's more, those are just the popular examples I know of the top of my head.
@@acidaspida8885 "one little girl reality warper"
If you mean Ace, he didn't "Help" her. She was literally dying, and he just stayed with her so she wouldn't be alone as she died.
It's sad, and tragic, but literally ANY Hero would have done that for a young child, or else they wouldn't be allowed to be called a Hero or Role Model
You claimed batman had no powers, but he has been thrown through enough walls that I'm pretty sure he has some level of superhuman durability.
People dont realize why batman have a harder time
Its that rogues are developed FOR their heroes. Batmans vullains were designed for batman, and spiders for spiderman
Of course spiderman has an easier time tbh.
I do think scarecrow toxin would send spider through a tizzy tho, like extreme
Im pretty sure Joker wouldnt just try to shoot him tho. He would have a joyride of horrors for him. Peter is way stronger sure but don't forget that all of the DC universe is disgusted by Joker and knows how dangerous he is.
@@Great_White21 and spider man has had literally nothing but bad days
@@EntombedToast70 ooo I think that would just make the joker More deranged. Like Alright you haven't a Joker brand bad day. Though tbh I think Joker with prep time is FAAAR more dangerous than batman with prep time
@@anthonyham5589 still doubt he could break spiderman mentally, make him pissed? Hell yeah, break him? Never
@@anthonyham5589 don't forget, yes Joker prepping to harm spider-man would never reach the levels of pure evil that Norman can plan out in a single coffee break. Norman's plans on hurting Peter is just pure cruelty, from making clones that make peter question his reality. To becoming bonded to the carnage symbiot and infecting all of Peter's friends and families. To not only killing George Stacy but also killing Gwen in like a single week. Jokers big event style plans are like a normal Tuesday for what Norman does to Peter
What I find fascinating is everyone brings up how Batman is prepared to fight the justice league head on. Whether it’s tower of babel or the Justice buster armor.
Strangely no one brings up the fact that Spider-Man has solo fought the avengers on several occasions, and was able to nearly effortlessly beat most of the members with 24 hours to prepare.
So I’d say they’re both pretty much on the same level when it comes to prep time strength
TBF Superman is wayyyyy stronger than most of the mainline avengers. The only ones who could give him a serious run for his money would be magic heroes and maybe Hulk.
@@Dhxgdbdhhxhdjdj I would also like to point out that Superman has very notable weaknesses to Kryptonite and red sun radiation. The Hulk, not so much.
I'd also point out times Spider-Man has caught the Avengers with NO prep time. He usually is able to contend very well even if he loses.
@@SimianCode Do they know krptonite weakens Supes? Or the Red Sun thing?
@@Dhxgdbdhhxhdjdjso Thor hulk and blue marvel those heavy hitters wouldn’t give the big blue a run.
I think the main point is we shouldn’t be asking “Could Batman take the Green Goblin in a fight?” We should be asking “How would the Green Goblin work as a Batman villain?” Cause that question would make a better comic/TV show.
I don't honestly think he could, at least not as a pure Batman villain. He's got everything Bruce does on top of metahuman physical capabilities, the only way he wins is if he calls in backup from a hero who doesn't frequent Gotham.
Not even prep time can save him, since if Bruce has the ability to plan, so does Norman.
It will be like a Deja Vu
I don't care what the Green Goblin would be like as a Batman villain because he wasn't made to be one and his entire character would have to change in this experiment. Meanwhile, we can imagine how well superheroes could do fighting other villains much more easily and without the need to essentially just make up new characters but slap a known name on them.
Well its just joker that can take a bit more hits. Its nothing really that amazing.
@@jacobellis2313No, no, no, it's joker who can take more hits and has the same amount of tech as batman
Batman and Spider-man are the best example of Stan Lee's idea that a hero is "only as good as their villains"
so glad to see a person realize batmans no kill rule is not out of morality
but out of his own psychological issues
It USED TO BE about morality.... because batman respects human life but then under the red hood retconned it into being cause hes crazy. Its another dumb retcon to try and make batman into an anti hero... something batman SHOULD NOT be
@@MILDMONSTER1234 ehhh id argue there was always an element of his mental issues beign a big factor
even in the DCAU he talked about how close to the darkness he was
the the DCAU being very well written also had a unique counter argument
the justice lords episode showed while he is the closest to going over the line he is the one who could come back if they went to far
@@MILDMONSTER1234 he actually used guns a whip and killed he only had a no kill rule because he shot a criminal in the manor and he shot Alfred aswell because Alfred was behind the criminal that was during his original dark knight days
@@MILDMONSTER1234no if anything it makes more sense
@@MILDMONSTER1234but when you realise that joker always escapes prison and kills 100s doing so the morality of letting him live goes out the window
9:01 You forgot to mention that Peter can hold his breath for long periods spanning several minutes. He could just not breathe and beat Scarecrow in a few blows.
Scarecrow doesn't just spray you, by the time you notice scarecrow is around you already have it in your system
@@acidaspida8885 Counterpoint: Spider man has a danger sense. Sneaking up on someone and dosing them with someone without them noticing is way harder when they have a precog sense yelling at them about your intentions.
@@somdudewillson it's fear gas, not fear injection
@@acidaspida8885 It doesn’t matter what the danger is, it just has to be danger. Fear gas would activate his spidey-sense, whether it’s released in a bomb or passed through a vent or siphoned through a pipe. It is an early warning that sense potential dangers, whether it is truly a threat or not. We know from various medias that gases such as tear gas do indeed activate spidey sense, as well as smoke from fire and other gaseous substances. It isn’t about scarecrow, the gas is the real danger and he’d react.
I want to be in favor of scarecrow because spidey sense is OP af and I like scarecrow, but I can’t see Spider-Man not reacting to the gas even if it blew up in his face
His spider sense will warn him of dangerous gas. End of debate.😂
I think the thing about Batman is also, he’s ready to retreat all the time. He has experienced and escaped from Superman in more than one story. So he will get his preparation simply because the moment he is in a new environment the first thing he‘d do is retreat and assess possible threats.
Yeah I can see several villains beating Batman the first time only for him to come up with plans to win
Spider-Man is my favourite hero, and I'm not a huge fan of Batman, but I have to say that Spidey might have a problem in regards to the mental part, because aside from one or other villain, such as Green Globlin, he is not used to the wide-spread level of psychopathy that Batman's villains have, and Peter has been shown frequently to be quite easily pissed off and become mentally unbalanced with gratuitous cruelty (Sin-Eater, for example). So in physical terms they might not be a problem, but he could simply lose himself over time due to sheer depression and hopelesness. Batman, in that regard, is better mentally prepared.
Me starting the video: "Huh, I wonder what this guy thinks about Batman's use of gadgets and if the Batcave is allowed or not"
Me finishing this video: "Batman has been mishandled by media for far too long, and we need to go back to what makes Batman great"
I genuinely love how you baited me into watching a dissection of Batman and Spider-Man as characters, and the mishandling of Batman specifically, when I was expecting something completely different. A surprise to be sure, but a welcomed one.
Bro this was a batman smare campaign . Bruce would adopt Peter and make him one of His robins
Magneto has outright stated Electro’s powers are stronger than his own. That’s scary as hell.
That's more inconsistent writing and worse, writing that obviously contradicts most of what we have read before. basically it's a garbage claim.
Electro has the potential to become a major threat if he wasn't an idiot.
@@danielebowman Oh but it is. THe thing is also that one time Magneto wanted to get him on their side (I do not remember why) but when he saw how Electro acted and was, Magneto was dissapointed in basically how stupid and shortsighted Electro is. To the point that he decided to not even talk to him.
@danielebowman No, it's mostly his stupidity and lack of creativity. Electrokinesis basically let's you become a God. You could kill someone instantly by controlling their brainwaves, possibly destroy the planet. Along with electromagnetism
Not necessarily who I expected or wanted to be stronger than Magneto, but this does make Electro as a character both more frightening and much funnier. Stronger than goddamn Magneto, but he's dumb as rocks so he's stuck in Queens.
While I do generally agree with you, I think you did a massive disservice to the MASSIVE threat that is Scarecrow. Not only is Fear Toxin a direct counter to Spider-Sense (since unlike Mysterio's illusions it would directly affect his brain and send his Spidey Sense into overdrive and potentially even cause Spidey's enhanced reflexes to turn against him). But Scarecrow is smart, and more than that, he's a psychological menace. If Spider-Man so much as simply utter's Gwen or Uncle Ben's name during a Fear Toxin trip, Scarecrow WOULD pick up on that, and he would procede to tug on that thread every second he can until he unravels it.
The only reason Scarecrow is such a low level threat is because Batman's entire personality and training gives him an Iron-Clad Will against Fear Toxin, something that Spider-Man does not have.
Also, I don't think Batman beats Kingpin, I think Bruce Wayne does. Batman may lose the intial fight, but he gets away and in a Week or so Kingpin finds out that some pretty rich boy just bought 75% of his staff across all industries from right under his nose.
Honestly I think people sleep on scarecrow in general, his toxin was able to cause Superman to kill Lois so who’s to say that crane doesn’t just get spider man to kill aunt may or MJ or Gwen? Peter Parker is just a kid who doesn’t deal with psychologically terrifying villains like Batman so he would have little to no resistance, in fact crane would probably take advantage of spider man’s extreme strength and powers to get him to cause lots of destruction in the city possibly killing civilians. Scarecrow may be one of the most dangerous villains in all of DC honestly because he doesn’t need to be powerful he is always using the hero’s power for his own gain.
Bro this dude who made the vid. Slept on him. Solomon grundy. Posin ivy, raj, hush, mad hatter and clay face. @eddisonwilde4699
Scarecrow would be a little more dangerous for sure still, spiderman also has enough willpower to overcome whatever is thrown at him, pherphaps it would affect him more but the result in the end would be the same, he would get through that and smash scarecrow.
And then Carecrow would have to be able to make spidey inhale the gas somehow which would not be easy at all
Besides his sistem would probably filter the toxin pretty quickly since he doesnt have a particular weakness and even if he was affected seriously, after fighting mysterio, scorpion poison, all of the simbiote stuff (nightmares, messing whit his personality etc.), Being hunted by venom, kraven, green goblin etc. and his daily life, i dont think it would give that MUCH trouble.
And he is pretty smart so it wouldnt be a problem for him to make a cure, it would probably be easier to him than it was for batman since science is basically its especiallity
@@johnnybeatmaker330you clearly didn’t watch the whole video at all.
@@nunobatista5822Yeah Scarecrow would be like a one time threat to him as he wouldn’t know about the fear toxin but Peter has been able to overcome toxins like that before with his own villains so if they ever got a rematch, Spidey wouldn’t have as much trouble taking him down.
Gonna be real here. One of the defining and imo most interesting characteristics of Batman is that there is no problem he can't solve. Similar to what you said yourself when he's in Justice League comics the reason he's able to hold his own in that realm is due to his proclivity for strategy and tactics.
This is precisely why the majority of his villains are psychological antagonists. Most of these conflicts center around the emotional and mental aspect of things bc that is the core of his character more so than his physical abilities, cool as they may be.
With regards to this debate, I feel like that feeds into being the world's greatest detective. His ability to solve puzzles, form strategies, and rebound when plans don't go as they should is what makes Batman one of the most powerful heroes in the DCEU. His ability to think on his feet and form strategies in the moment are just as strong as his abilities to plan ahead so prep time or not, I think he would beat Spider-Man villains. I certainly don't think it would be easy tho.
His vast resources aside, what makes Batman the world's greatest detective is his ability to problem solve. This is why he's able to defeat any opponent, from penguin to Darkseid. Unless there is a character that simply has no weaknesses to exploit, such as Dr Manhattan or the one above all, it's impossible to count Batman out.
That said, you might be right in that Spider-Man would have an easier time with at least the majority of Batman's villains given he's also a good strategist himself.
The one flaw I have noticed with arguments like this from most fans is that they tend to overlook the qualities of Batman. Batman is not Spiderman without powers. They are two completely different characters who tackle scenarios in completely different ways. Even if we want to take out the prep time for instance most people tend to think a first encounter would end with Batman dying. Most likely a first encounter will end with Batman pulling back and regrouping with a much more better plan. Also let not forget the fact that this man is arguably the best tactician and strategist in of all DC. He ain’t going to just punch really hard. He is going to study his enemies, try out a few tricks and if nothing works he’ll fade into the shadows and dip. Batman knows when his beat and he rarely ever sticks around once that is clear.
Yeah exactly, he’s a master of stealth, and in this hypothetical situation i could even see him not confronting the villains for months or even years if it means having enough time to devise a completely full proof plan to take them down.
i dont think anyone is claiming batman to be spiderman without powers. BUT its very clear that the batman's version of the trope, (lizard/croc, bane/rhino, manbat/vulture, mysterio/riddler, kingpin/penguin) are FAR less dangerous than spiderman's.
to the point of some of them, like penguin and bane ending up as c tier if they were to fight spiderman.
No, as don't overlook the qualities of Batman, that's fucking ridiculous. You invalidated whatever the rest of your comment was by starting it with such a stupid assertion.
@@gamingwithquancena4989 Yes, correct. Except Batman has never taken years to confront a villain. And also people assume Batman is taking on these villains with only what he can carry in his batsuit. Here’s how the scenario should take out: A spiderman villain appears in Gotham and commits acts of villainy. Batman investigates, and before engaging learns about this villain. Then he gets ready to engage the next time the supervillain strikes. If it’s the Joker, he might leap from the rafters and punch him. But if it’s Green Goblin or Doc Octopus, etc., he would bring tech. He’s got cars, planes, bikes, mech suits, drones, missiles, alien technology, etc. I don’t know Spiderman’s enemies well enough to judge what it would take to stop them, but everyone who says instakill Batman is ignoring the plot.
@@abj136it's coz ppl undermine batman coz "hes just human" but if we take a step back and look his feats alone show he isn't a normal peak human ppl take advantage of batman being human so they automatically think he loses every fight first encounter when in reality he actually investigate b4 going straight into a fight this is why I hate powerscaling with batman coz it takes away his whole character and marvel fans know this as they just want everything in their favor
Peter wouldn't have the easiest time with Batman's rogues, imo. What makes Gotham's rogues dangerous is that they're not often a palpable threat to the heroes themselves, but to whatever the heroes are trying to protect. Peter will have no problem punching Joker's face in and might even have easy enough time to throw some quips in, but what happens when he notices the citizens are laughing a little too hard? Batman's villains don't want to beat you, they want you to fail.
Spider-man has cured lizardification, symbiote outbreaks and vampirism before. He is very familiar with villains who use chemicals and also has learned a lot of counters. I'm fairly confident he can come up with a cure to Joker gas.
@@yoursonisold8743 i have no doubt that Spider-man can come up with a cure , but he will have watched hundreds, if not thousands of people die horribly before he comes up with one. my point is Peter failing the citizens due to him underestimating the villains will stick with him for a long time, which is more than half of Gotham's rogues' main objective when facing heroes.
@@yoursonisold8743Lizerdification is a transformation. You can just turn them back. Joker just kills hundreds of people with joker gas. No spiderman villians other than carnage cause damage on that scale.
@@Marc-rw3dd there actually has been many times where spidey has actually dealt with death on that scale(almost all his villains are city level). Also Joker Jas doesn't always kills it only kills if you leave the victim alone to die to usually suffocation and the whole idea of a antidote is that it is going to effect someone who was already infected if there was no saving than there wouldn't be a antidote. Also Marvel does a better job of if there is high level tech and health care there would be a high chance that at least most government places would have them so spidey doesn't even need to do the job of devising a cure alone. Also I just remember Spidey usually deals with Scorpion's venom(which can also be in a gas form and has kill whole city blocks of people before) which is strong enough to weaken and kill superheroes who have super healing and usually negate all form of chemical warfare.
Spider-man and suffering are synonymous with each other. Gotham villians would give a challenge and give emotional trauma. However, he is resilient.
dont forget, the fear toxin and joker gas would most likely not affect spidey. his radioactive blood cleanses out ANY illness, it even prevented spidey from becoming a vampire. so he’d be immune to those attacks, which would probably make him immune to poison ivy’s mind control too
Ivy might work since her powers come from the Green these days...I think, I haven't read any DC stuff in awhile. It feels like that'd work on some weird totemic spider-level. But she'd still have to get close to actually use it, and with his spider-sense/agility, that's way easier said than done. Fear toxin/Joker gas are more up in the air, I feel like it's worked on aliens and such before, but I can't remember if it was specifically made with other stuff to work on them, or if it was just sorta handwaved in those stories
Scorpion's toxin and Mysterio's sense nullifying gases did work on Spidey before though. The latter straight up dulled his spider-sense even. If fear toxin can affect his spider sense that would be really, really bad. But usually illusions or chemicals are thing Spidey can either resist more than normal people or straight up stop working quickly.
Spidey's problem with Ivy is simply that he's a sucker for hot women, especially redheads (MJ) and especially crazy bad-girls (Felicia).
He could wear a sealed spacesuit and she'd still play him.
Does he even still have that in the latest run?
Yeahh, no. That stuff affects gods like Superman and Wonder Woman. It would knock spidey on his ass
I feel that if Spider-Man annoyed Riddler, Riddler might not give Spidey more clues to help defuse the bomb or save the innocent. (Yes Spidey is smart, I’m not suggesting he can’t solve riddles). But I do wonder if the delicate personalities that Batman has grown to adapt around would give Spidey trouble in order to stop a Gotham villains plan.
I guess what I’m asking is, would Batman and Spiderman be able to save the day against each others respective villains, or would one have a harder time being a hero than the other? Instead of just beating the villain up?
Crock never said that with the rock, that was Batman in disguise. He is a pretty street smart villain. No match for Spiderman but still, he isn't Rhino.
Grundy would smash rhino
@@rontrej6973 Solomon Grundy want pants too!
Grundy is super slept on@@rontrej6973
I think one of my favourite parts about both Batman and Spider-Man is that they won’t stop. No matter how battered or broken they will continue. They are both the epitome of indomitable willpower and it shows. It makes them both in my opinion while not physically unbeatable I think they are mentally unbeatable. Unstoppable characters of will and do whatever it takes to do “the right thing”.
Batman's prep powers come in part from his vast wealth and incredible resources from Wayne Enterprises, Justice League and stuff he picked up fro various sci-fi misadventures, not just his brilliant intellect. Denying these to Bruce would be a bit like dropping Tony Stark in DC but forbidding him from using any of his Iron Man suits or any money.
Obviously dropped in cold, Spider-Man would have a relatively easy time in Gotham while Batman would struggle in New York- but, if they are stuck there for weeks, months or years, things would become very different, and if we had them actually born and raised in the different verse's then things would change a lot too.
Not to crap on the metaphor more for a comparison, I think tony stark would get his bearings much faster than bruce would if they were dropped in the other universe without resources. Tony really just needs a bunch of scraps and basic supplies to get going, while batman's plans have way more specialized and expensive materials.
Though I think that would be a neat comparison between Tony stark and Bruce Wayne who'd get back to top form faster.
@@CreepsandwicheaterTony Stark unfortunately kinda falls into a fallacy whenever he's involved in a cold dropping. If Tony doesn't have a suit, he makes one, no matter how implausible or ridiculous the scope or available materials. Key example would be the Ice Age Suit, which is literally just ice.
People are glazing either heroes too much… I feel both would definitely struggle in the beginning. However Batman would easily begin prepping to fight his foes… not to mention… Batman has fought super powered beings like Solomon Grundy… Spiderman on the other hand wouldn’t necessarily struggle with combat instead his mental state and moral compass would be tested constantly… you have Green Goblin who pushes him hardest while Batman constantly has villains doing cruel shit. There are also more tactical villains in Batman’s rogue gallery… Bane for example broke Batman’s back not because he was stronger or the fact he beat Batman up… the only reason he was able to do that was because bane setup Batman to get so tired Batman practically fell on to Bane’s knee to break his back…
I always thought it would be funny that if Spider-Man faced the Joker in a crossover, the latter would be using fake bombs or splashing civilians with water and letting them think it's acid or something like that, because he felt like messing with people for his own amussement that morning. And when his spider-senses didn't triger Spider-Man would just assume he was just one of those harmless c-list joke villains (a Jester variant, even) and kind of go along with him for a bit before webbing him and leaving.
He would even audibly laugh at a few of his jokes or deliver a punch line or two. And everyone, including the Joker himself, would be completely dumbfounded. Gothamites would straight-up think that this guy is insane.
I mean, Spidey fought the Joker once. Clown went down with one punch.
Joker being just a goofy guy that doesn't want death and chaos at every corner would be a fresh take for the character nowadays, I'm growing tired of him as he is right now in comics
@mateushenriquepinheiro3197 Right? His name is Joker, that's what he's supposed to be. What his entire identity is about. He shouldn't be some serious, supervillain meant to be taken completely seriously. Some of his crimes and plots should end up just being harmless purely for psychological warfare
It's even funnier how Spidey would even agree that he's insane.
Another issue for Batman is how often Spider-Man villains team up. Sure, sometimes a few lesser villains rally together in Gotham… but they’re never truly a Sinister 6 caliber threat
Dock Ock, Vulture, Scorpion, Rhino, Mysterio and Shocker teaming up would be an absolute nightmare for Batman to deal with. Even if they lined up to politely take turns fighting Batman I don’t think Bruce can handle more than 2 actively “hunting” him independently from one another, let alone all 6 actively working together
I think there is a valid point, but the counter point like in the batman games. Bats Villains are often acting at the same time, Which could be intentionally trying to ware the bat thin, And in the hypothetical of the video, its just Spiderman as the hero. So he can't be in the 6-8 places at once to deal with the things like bats and his family. Last I checked, Peter does not take Ls well
@@anthonyham5589 The original Sinister Six had Spidey fight all day long. Each do a different crime spree to tire him out, and they still lost. Thy later all ganged up on him in a surprise attack, an lost. Then you got the time Carnage took over the city "Web of Shadows" style, Venom did too with heroes,and Spidey beat them.
@@anthonyham5589 Yeah this is specifically the plan for Joker in Arkham Origins and Arkham Knight/Scarecrow in AK, get as many elite villains as possible working together in one night so that Batman can't keep up. Its also not a million miles away from Bane's plan during Knightfall of releasing every from Arkham before confronting Bruce so he'll have to have dealt with everyone almost simultaneously.
@@malleableconcrete an Arkham outbreak is still objectively easier to handle than a Sinister Squad imo.
Think about it, barring Ivy and Clayface, who is a challenge for Spider-Man among the Bat-Rogues? Scarecrow at best has a 50/50 of getting negged by spider-sense, Bane peaks around Kingpin in strength, Joker is a crazier less tech savvy Goblin without Super Soldier stats, the League of Assassins would be like a field trip into Hell’s Kitchen to fight The Hand until you get to Ra’s himself, and even the Court of Owls throwing Talons at him isn’t the worst considering he’s kept up on the front lines alongside Asgardian warriors.
Kingpin is basically Bane without the venom reliance/weak spot and arguably as many resources and connections. The Wrecking Crew are all roughly as tough as asgardian warriors and The Wrecker’s crowbar is a discount Mjonlir. Scorpion’s suit/tail has managed to make Spider-Man put in effort to hold back strikes and Rhino’s strength usually terrifies Peter unless he’s giving into his rage. Doc Ock is a talented genius with 4 highly advanced Swiss army tentacles that have an array of features and capabilities, the least of which keeping up with spider-mana strength and speed. Clayface meet Sandman who can turn a sandy area into a colossal Titan. Electro is gonna be trouble straight up. And then you get Goblin who I’ve already mentioned to be a more tech tavvy Joker with super soldier stats… but Carnage makes even Goblin look like a puppy in comparison, literally created as a “what if Joker got the Venom Symbiote”. Even Lizard is an upgraded Croc.
An Arkham outbreak for Spider-Man is like a larger Sinister Squad with watered down versions of his enemies. For Batman a Sin6 would be like a bunch of his villains either got PHDs and/or upgraded powers and decided to gang up on him with a few extra spicy villains added in for good measure.
Tbh with exceptions of Doc Ock and Green Goblin, Spider-Man's villains are dumb asf. I think once Batman realizes how majority of them operate, they won't be an issue to him anymore.
A riddle is NOT a math problem and a investigator is not an engineer. Truly intelligence isn't linear, and I think you have to really pay attention when discussing these character's in this way.
Batman _is an engineer_ though. He built most of his materials in the Batcave on his own. He only enlists the help of others like Mr. Terrific and otherwise to do insanely huge projects like the Hellbat suit or the JL Watchtowers. Peter Parker is absolutely smart enough to figure out the Riddler. He's done his own serious intelligence work before and he's one of the smartest people in Marvel, right behind Reed Richards and Dr. Doom. That's why he can behave like such a jokester, he's smart enough to figure out his bad guys and do it quickly.
@@nuclearsimian3281 This misses my point, an investigator and Detective aren't the same as an engineer, Batman IS the proof, he didn't learn multiple skills and knowledge bases from the same mentors and teachers. These are all different forms of IQ traits and knowledge. Batman is a better detective than Spiderman so we should assume the riddles and general situations are difficult. I would easily assume, if Spiderman and Batman were in Gotham together, Spiderman wouldn't just become an equal detective to Batman just like out of nowhere.
Clayface? Killer croc? Mad hatter? Hush? Solomon Grundy? Dead shot? Red hood? Black mask? Man bat? YOU MENTIONED NEARLY ALL OF SPIDER MANS ROGUE GALLERY BUT FAILED TO MENTION SO MANY OF BATMANS???!!!!
He mentioned Clay face and killer croc. I don't think spider-man has a problem with most of the other characters you listed. Man-bat and Vulture are pretty comparable. Solomon Grundy is a super strong brute like Rhino. Black mask isn't more of a threat than Kingpin. Spideysense kinds of make deadshot a non-issue most of the time. Red hood is kind of similar to Punisher in that I feel Spiderman can kick his ass if he needs to, but they'll probably try to stay out of each other's way. I don't know enough about Hush to say anything for certain. I'm pretty sure Mad Hatter would probably be a similar threat scale to Mysterio where he's not one of Spider-man's top tiers.
Prep-time - or rather, cunning and ingenuity - is integral to both characters: classic Spider-Man stories see Peter defeated early, figure out a solution, and then return to triumph having learned something. Batman's best stories are driven by him working to understand and figure out a solution to his foe's.
Both - and, frankly, all superheroes to some degree - are underdogs facing foes far more dangerous than them.
Not all, superman gets powered down by his enemies for them to be a threat since superman is the opposite of an underdog in terms of power against most of his villains
@@CTO-f2k I'd say that there are still a number of Superman villains who are his superior in terms of raw power.
@@N0-1_H3r3 well yeah but most of supes main villains are weaker than him and if they show someone who is equal to him or stronger they just show supes stop holding back and overpowering them. Supes main villain is Lex who is just a super smart dude that always uses kryptonite to get the upper hand
I think Batman vs Spider-Man enemies will also boil down to how willing Batman is to retreat, analyze the previous fight, and try something new until he does win.
Batman would have so much problems with Shocker the first few times, Shocker is very good at adapting, hell he has beaten Spider-Man more than once and let him go because he was being payed more to leave him.
I can see Shocker getting one or two victories against Batman, then Batman adapts and beats Shocker easily, Shocker then realises that Gotham sucks and moves to Central City where he and the Rogues will become best friends in less than a week.
So far this seems to be the best Comment here.
Shocker isn't a super genius, but he's smart enough to know that Batman's way more trouble than it's worth
@@Marc-rw3ddShocker is often portrayed as a mercenary type, so if the job is too difficult, the pay isn't sufficient, he'll just pack up and head out for greener pastures. He's great, I love him.
I gotta wonder how many times Herman would have to pack up and move, considering every city seems to have a superhero in it that’s vastly above his paygrade.
I really hate the modern depiction of batman and the arguments they use to make him win "if he had prep time-", batman is a great strategist, sure, but he's great in every physical and mentally possible way, hes not just strong and fast, he's disciplined and knows basically every fighting style in the world, he is not just smart and strategic, he has one of the biggest mental resistance, he can amazingly prepare to situations, but he can easily also adapt, if his gadgets do not work, he makes new ones on the spot mixing other gadgets, if he loses a battle because of his lack of strength or abilities, he adapts and creates other suit that maybe imitates spidey abilities, sure spidey can win the joker, the riddler, the killer croc, but these villains are psychopathic murderers, they do horrible things, spiderman would easily beat the joker, but what if joker killed 20 babies before spiderman knew the joker was doing something?, if batman sees that he would be obviously affected mentally later, but in the spot he would resist it, he would not let his feelings affect his battle skills, but spiderman would feel horrible, his anger maybe, just like stated on his video, might kill the joker, but that's not what the joker wants?, you can use that argumment in any batman villain, their goal, is equally as power and money, breaking the bat, breaking his mind, winning mentally, but spidey doesn't is that mentally strong(im not saying he doesn't is, but nowhere near as the bat is)
(Basically, I believe batman would loose to spiderman villians, but not as fastly like the video says, and also that spiderman would humble any batman villian, but not as easily as the video said)