We SOLVED Why Starkiller is NOT a Clone In the Force Unleashed 2| VADER LIED!
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"I lied. As I have from the very beginning"
Lol the way he says I lied from the first one was so like quick like yeah dude I lied straight up 😂
Lier paradox @@gusconstant5948
I always hated that idea of starkiller being a clone
right .
Your not alone on this subject. Like why he couldn't be unconscious or something
Same. It's so stupid
Agree
Yea might be clone essence transfer who knews
I just replayed this game yesterday,nice and in the very game Kota says you really shouldn't trust anything Vader says,he even mocks Starkiller for doing so,
Yeah. I always believed "Starkiller" from FU2 was Galen Marek all along.
He's not. He is a clone. It's in the handbook. It sucks cuz he's my favorite Star wars character even if he's only in Legends. Pat, sadly he is actually a clone. You can even play as the evil clone in the DLC
But don't several sources say he's a clone plus when I met witwer he talked about them like they were seperste people
@@gusconstant5948 a non cannon clone in a non cannon Dlc with a non cannon ending. None of this is cannon to the game.
@gusconstant5948 I know, but still.
It's worth noting 1138 is a reference to Lucas' first film, THX-1138. The number also appears in A New Hope as a reference to Princess Leia's cell number on the Death Star.
So both numbers are definitely a nod to this, though whether or not they are intended to be a reference to each other to indicate a connection, I suppose it is a possibility.
My thoughts: Star Wars was significantly better before Disney
It's not just your thoughts dude lol. Disney sucks
Yeah I always had the feeling that Vader was lying. He was always trying to control Galen. It’s a shame that we couldn’t see Force Unleashed 3. Honestly I think Galen Mareks story is better than Rebels.
I always chose to believe that Vader rebuilt Galen since he did before and "the memories of a dead man" are just Galens memories coming back to him.
Some cloning was definetly involved,in the novel Galen becomes a spirit
Vader always refers to killing anakin. His use of dead could be similar to that
In the book, Galen is on the Empirical for 6 months being "rebuilt". TFU2 takes place 6 months after the first. I always thought it was intentional and the second game would play into the 'clone or not' story. I also considered the dark clone to be existing in both endings. The game starts with Vaders execution orders. The only reason to get rid of the original was because he succeeded in making a replacement.
Indeed. The original was too unstable, unpredictable, and unruly, but the clone was the perfect puppet, making the original a liability who needed to be taken out.
If Anakin can be brainwashed to forget his past and embrace a new identity. They can erase Galen Marek’s thoughts and making the real 1 think he’s a clone through experiments and torture to use him as a weapon.
Anakin was never brainwashed. He became Vader BECAUSE of his past memories.
But remember revan had his memory erased using the force and new memories put in their place
Thank you!!! I've been saying that for well over a decade! " You can't clone Jedi. It's impossible!" MasterJedi Kota.
I feel that the first novel confirms death. And that your previous theory was correct. A sort of pseudo-essence transfer where the original spirit of Galen found the clone body and inhabited it. Starkiller was raw power in the Force, his potential not yet fully tapped. I feel he would have been a balance point in the Force, not a Vergence like Anakin, but one who could find the Balance in both Light and Dark. Like Revan so to speak.
Starkillers potential was confirmed to have equal or somewhat superior to Sidious own potential.
However not even close to Anakins or Lukes potential.
Against Sidious,Galen achieved Oneness and still failed to truly match Sidious.
He was not half as strong as him,but he had the potential to match and surpass him one day
When this game released I was in grade 11, all my buddies said he was a clone and I went full Charlie Day explaining that Master Kota would know the true Galen more than any being in the galaxy. Thank you for confirming a 13 year schoolyard debate 😆
Whatever the case, "he's now more powerful than ever".
StarKiller was an impressive weapon that Vader created. He is the real Gallen Marek, no clone could be that powerful.
Well I mean your whole argument falls apart because if you pick the dark side your clone kills you LOL
@@gusconstant5948that side was never “canon”, just an fu if you chose the dark side
@@GeorgeOstrand-o5nThe clone exists anyways, there are other parts that show him
How do you explain palpatine because as of the rise of skywalker he even stated Who we saw in the return of the jedi wasn't really him that was a clone body his original body had died years before that practicing essence transfer He also doubles down on this in the rise of skywalker novel
@poppadnice52 well it's Legends so you kind of have to be open-minded but you have to remember. Yeah his body was cloned but he was able to absorb Ray and kylo and then all the sudden his body was regenerating. That was a cloned body that was regenerating so got to think outside the box video game Legends Star wars in general
I have been saying he wasn't a clone for years. The odds of a clone getting force sensitive are higher than anything else in the galaxy even in Legends. The only exceptions we knew for sure were in Heir to the Empire trilogy. Cloning also doesn't make someone exactly who they were before force or not that is why Vader never cloned Padmae.
It's wild if its true, it changes everything and nothing for the character simultaneously. I dig it.
@TheStupendousWave Just going off what the archives say.
@@calebmetcalfe6998There are multiple force sensitives clones in Legends though..
@newhybrid101 where? We only know for sure of Sabaoth and Luuke. Palpatine had to move himself into cloned bodies, but he wasn't a force sensitive clone himself. And I am pretty sure no clone of the grand army had any
@@calebmetcalfe6998those are what i mean.
i believe Starkiller II is a clone but also has the soul and essence of the original
I always thought vader was trying so hard to gaslight someone like he was
I've always believed it was Vader lying
Yeah he’s the real Galen Marek because he keeps having flashes of his memories.
The memories are explained by the memory flashes used to train Starkiller II
Great video, Stupendous. I never really was too crazy about TFU and definitely not TFU2, partially because 2 was too short and I never liked the idea of being able to clone such a crazy high powered force user like Starkiller when so many force sensitive cloning projects in Legends had failed that weren't Palpatine doing essence transfer. It always felt odd and out of place as far as the lore goes, but this theory makes way too much sense and you're making me want to go play these games again to get a fresh perspective, now over a decade later.
StupendousWave: “In the Force Unleashed, Vader is a master manipulator. He’s cunning. A true master of deception…”
Vader in The Force Unleashed: *”I L I E D”*
Star killer be like: are you my dad…. Well then murder it is!
I think Galen truly did die, in a way, as his soul passed on into the force while Vader kept his body on ice, hence why he was referred to by the same subject number. However, later, his essence transferred into his body, not a clone body but his original one that had been kept on ice the whole time, reviving him, and allowing him to continue his journey like before. And if not, then the body is that of a clone while the soul is the real Galen, hence why Kota saw him as being exactly the same as the original because of his presence in the force.
Force Unleashed 3, the story of Boba’s cliff hanger at the end of the second one was too good…as you’ve pointed it’s the first the story time and only time really the Rebellion had custody of Vader 2 years or so before “A New Hope.” Potential was so good to see the Dantooine infamous rebel base, and how Vader escaped via Boba’s help
I never thought he was a clone after Kota made that point.
8 minutes after, I have to admit that this is all interesting. But what I take away more from the video was how dark Vader had become, and only serves to affirm everything I learned about the force.
The darkness is a blatant lie, promising you everything, and turning you into everything you hate while taking away any chance of what it promised to give you.
Vader hates Sidious, yet in both of these games, he acted the same as Sidious in an effort to kill him.
Like you said it in earlier video cloning force sensitives or implanting force sensitivity even in non-force sensitive clones defies will of the force
I remember getting the novel on release day and reading it. The novel left it open that he wasn't a clone. I'm glad there are others that think that as well.
This actually makes a lot of sense. Even in legends material, each of the clones still had unique personalities and were individuals themselves. A clone of Galen would sure have to be a bit different. I'm also sure Vader would've found out more about his birth at that point. As such if he was truly attempting to produce a more powerful Galen. He could've tried using Galen's DNA to artificially create a newborn and just raise said newborn as his son.
I had always thought that he was the original, I know that the previous EU wasn't always cohesive, but the Thrawn trilogy tells us that force sensitives cannot be cloned properly. So the existence of both the original still being alive plus the dark twisted clone from the dark side ending both fit into this narrative. I also like the idea that Kota is able to "see" the truth as I have seen this trope echoed many times in fantasy where a person who loses sight and then sees through some form of magic enhancement can see the soul/aura and pierce disguises because of it.
"Today: this just in... Starkiller, infact, NOT a clone!"
I hated how he dies in the first game, I wish they made it to where he was mind wiped and brainwashed into thinking he’s a clone
I love all the Galen videos. Definitely one of my absolute favorite characters ever
"By the force. I knew you were alive," Rahm.
My theory is how vader was stuck in a rut. He wanted power to surpass the emperor but also didn't want any loose ends. He knows how powerful he is after the emperor fight and wanted to keep him alive at all cost.
To be honest, I always figured that's what they were hinting at. That he was just Galen Marek with his mind wiped. Was supposed to be just about impossible to clone a force user anyway.
"What if Vader lied?"
Vader: *Demonstrates that he is a master liar.*
Palpatine: I have nothing left to teach him. He has learned the ancient Sith art which I, myself, once used to take control of the galaxy. I'd best find a new apprentice, before this one realizes he has all the tools he needs to replace me...
the thought of 1138 being the OG Galen marek makes sense to me Darth Vader is all about mind games why not on a massive scale i like it its like a poem it Rhymes
That be Crazy if he was The original,
If he's a Clone the "It's Real to Me"
Moment reminded me of the Episodes of Clone wars where the Jedi Humanised the Clones.
Neat!
TY!
I'd love a third release, but I don't think that's happening since they shelved it.
Perhaps Vader use the same Force power used on Revan when the council wiped Revan's mind.
The 1138 thing convinced me of my head canon as canon.
Make Force Unleashed 3 happen, Star Wars with some grit and guts
Pretty sure he was a clone alongside the Sith Acoylates and Saber Guards. We see other clones of him in the Kamino facility during the Vader fight and each of them either uses Saber Guard attacks or Acoylate attacks. Not to mention the bad ending where it's revealed that Vader had a second clone that was ready to serve him.
I suspected as much. Even Kota LITERALLY heard this and was skeptical since it's VERY hard to successfully clone Force Users. I've NEVER been fully convinced since it's NOT hard at all to tattoo someone an then in franchises like this memory wipe him an TELL him he was a clone. An learning weapons an more then one happens ALL the time I'm LITERALLY training this in real life too myself. No magic space mystic powers needed
I would LOVE a FU3! Such good games deserve another sequel
Haven't watched the video yet, but I never bought the idea that he was a clone because there was no reason for vader to lie to him about the cloning process not being perfected, unless it was to help gaslight starkiller into being Vader's willing slave.
The other reason is that starkiller "died" in those white jedi robes, but when vader shows the evil clone starkillers body, he's wearing the basic outfit from the start of TFU1.
I love this theory and it would be so amazing if they used this for a third game plot line, and then give us that game. However, at this point I think it would be rad if they did an animated series in the same style of Clone Wars and Bad Batch about the story from these games.
Cool video, speaking of clones have you already opened the Holocron of the Jedi clones X1 and X2 or not yet?
I would love love love to have a force unleashed three game. However, I don’t want Disney to have the same people that just did their other games do it. It needs to be done by somebody that can actually appreciate the characters and will honor the story.
I’ve played this game numerous times since it came out, and I never thought anything other than 1138 is the original Galen Marek. Vader lies. Like what Yoda says in Ep 2.
Good timing I just finished both books I think it’s definitely possible the new one was not a clone but in the words of Kota “I’m beginning to think it doesn’t matter”. I’m on kotas side though he never believes the new one to be a clone
When the second game came out I wondered if Gallen Marek memories were wiped out like weapon x wolverine
I always believed that TFU2 Starkiller was the real Galen Marek all along. I just couldn't figure out how it worked though.
-Edit- I also once believed in the Starkiller essence transfer theory but given what we now know about Palpatine's attempt at it, it sounds like that theory would yield an unsuccessful result.
So glad you cleared this up for me. W VIDEO!!
Galen was a like a hacking tool on cod he couldn't be stopped not even Vader could fully convince him he was a clone
But what about the corpse of Starkiller that Vader showed The Dark Apprentice in his origin?
Could be one of the failed clones he killed
@matthewlaflamme9019 And dressed like the original Starkiller.
So Galen Marek survived his battle with Darth Sidious by transferring his essence and consciousness to his clone 1138 or maybe the clone in the Force Unleashed 2. It would've been interesting to see Starkiller face the original who's embodied as subject 1138.
This was a great video, you could even say "killer".... okay I'll admit that one was forced.
Tbh I think you're on to something. The lengths that Vader went to to kidnap Juno to emotionally torture "the clone," it felt way more personal. If he was really a clone, I thought maybe the force could've transferred his soul into a new body and that was how his memories were fadded, maybe. But I like the theory better that Vader actually revived Galen and he had lost all of his memories until he was able to remember. It never made sense imo that a "clone" could be more powerful in the force than the original host.
Who knows. I remember thinking that the 2nd half of the first game was a clone and that in part 2 it was the original Galen.
Good, because I think the idea of him being revived with amnesia is better than being a clone.
I think hes the real Marick also i would love a force unleashed 3 where the devs can take there time and make truly something amazing
I think they made the right call making it ambiguous and hope they never confirm it one way or the other
I always thought that Starkiller was not a clone. When I heard the details of the force unleashed 3 I always imagined that Vader did successfully cloned him and that clone would be the major threat he and Darth Vader would have to face in that game. An evil Starkiller clone
I also agree StarKiller is Galen Marek theirs to many hints and clues that lead to it so I think StarKiller isn’t a clone either but spectacular video Stupendous and can’t wait for more awesome discussions about Galen Marek
I just want them to make this a movie!
I always thought that was the original Galen all along
Have you done a video on: Ahsoka vs Starkiller (Whose Training was better apprentice)?
Or who was a better Master Anakin or Darth Vader
You should do a video about what you think the empire would be like with Vader as emperor if he overthrew palpatine.
Now this is a video I’ve been waiting for…
You mentioned how the jedi master sensed Star killer, and it's currently what I find most phasinating about the force. How are the many ways a person can be felt. We know of Obi wan and Luke, and a hint of Yoda. And I've read how Anakin was like a blinding light or a bonfire, I think I saw or heard.
So my question is, are there more unique signatures in the force
Yes need a Force Unleashed 3
To be fair, it’s pretty disturbing to think that Juno Eclipse is trying to love a clone and just replace the original.
I try to never lie, however I believe someone who had embraced the seductions of the dark side of the force would find great potential in deceit!
Very interesting... It would make sense...
I have said this since the beginning of TFU2. There is no way, according to the EU, that Starkiller can be a clone. Kota was telling the truth, he has no reason to lie to our boy. Heck, Kota has never lied since he was introduced.
I’m curious to see how you figured this out just now after I figured it out right after finishing the game
Not a Clone would definitely make sense, TFU3 was going to further dive into how Vader was always toying and playing with Galen, manipulating him mentally and physically to his own ends.
Yea know I was giving y'all's opinion ground due to great arguments. Personally... I always took it to be Galen. Even with his acceptance and continued evolution, it didn't matter.
I was playing the remastered 1st Force Unleashed on Nintendo. Did you know it's different. New areas and enemies. Someone else with the title Darth. I don't remember this from my xbox play thru and thought it was worth mentioning
This is why I said that Subject 1138 is Galen Marek reborn in the body of his clone. Which would also explain why his Force signature is the same.
never believed he was a clone
I'm largely indifferent on whether or not TFU2 Starkiller is a clone or is real.
As for TFU3, I think the primary antagonistic force would've been the Dark Starkiller from the Dark Side ending and the DLC. Someone that powerful would require some incredible power to defeat, like a teamup between Vader and Starkiller.
It's weird how the clone can have a different force signature. It's literally the same person, hence a clone and also for the clones and also why is it that the force sensitive's can't be cloned but they did for starkiller and they did it for even Palpatine and also i would love a 3rd force unleashed game
Force Unleashed 3
Force Unleashed 3
Force Unleashed 3
Force Unleashed 3
Force Unleashed 3
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Force Unleashed 3
Starkiller was rebuilt once. I'm sure Vader did it again.
#WeneedForceUnleashed3
Yes, Vader lied, Starkiller is the original, and everything after Degobah is actually part of the Force test in the cave.
I heard somewhere that the 3rd FU game would feature a much younger Yoda as a Jedi Knight...
No dude. Yoda was in the second one and he was on dagobah old
@gusconstant5948 i remember. And I don't know that there is any truth to the story I heard but the premise was to be that as a Jedi Knight Yoda's powers might be more than he could fully control and in that way be similar to Starkiller and thus he would also be "the Force Unleashed"
Again, I have no reason to believe the rumor I referring to and so I should probably not have said anything...but I do think I could be a fun game🤣
@russellmeyer1 I mean sounds like it would be a good game but yeah they canceled it. Sam whitwear however you spell his name that play starkiller and voices maul and all that he was so disappointed when they canceled Force unleash three
@@gusconstant5948 Sam and me both!
I always thought unleashed 2 proved that you really can’t clone that powerful a force user, the body can be duplicated, but not the force. Starkiller just got a new vessel for his Force ghost.
That really why he eventually remembers, a clone of that powerful a force user is just a way to reincarnate them into a new vessel. On some dnd Clone spell shit😂
A very cool theory!
As Vader said in the first game I lied so I wouldn’t be surprised if he did again
Even if he is a clone. It doesn't matter He. Is. Galen.
I don’t think you solved anything, they made this clear at the end of the game and the book. Yet I’ve been saying this for years and countless mouth breathers have told me I’m wrong.
Always said this, glad it turned out to be true
Clearly ... the eu was pretty clear the the emperor clones couldn't use the force.
It would make sence Vader would not let starkiller die as he was the only one besides Yoda to hold back sidous lighting he was the closest apprentice that could take him down as there is no way Yoda would join him
I would imagine that to get the most authentic copy of a real person that copy wiuld have to naturally grow, such as Boba Fett growing naturally even though he's a clone of Jango. When a clone is rapidly grown there were generally defects on those clones. And knowing the impatients of Vador, he was going to sit around and wait. So I say it's more likely Galen in FU2 is not a clone.
Wasn’t it officially novelize that he was a clone? Not to mention that he was described as a clone with more power and physical strength than the original host
I think I was trying to explain something similar to this on another one of your videos. I always had the idea that vader was just lying. The whole "lure him back with Juno" plot doesn't really make any sense if he's not, because why do all that if the "clone" is already a failure?
Good soldiers watch early