Turks Overview Part 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2024
- Janissaries and Tech Tree of the Turks from Age of Empires 2, along with the HD expansion changes.
Part 1 (team and civ bonuses):
• Turks Overview Part 1
Table of Contents
0:22 Janissary stats
0:44 Janissary hidden attributes
1:11 Hand cannoneer hidden attributes
1:30 Elite Janissary and hand cannoneer stats comparison
3:20 (Elite) Janissary and hand cannon VS infantry
4:05 (Elite) Janissary and hand cannon VS paladins
4:43 (Elite) Janissary and hand cannon VS elite skirmisher
5:37 (Elite) Janissary vs hand cannon / conclusion
6:05 Unique Tech: +2 bombard and cannon unit range
7:40 Expansion changes (best heavy cavalry archers now?)
9:39 Archer tech tree: B+ (F no gold)
10:19 Infantry tech tree: C
10:47 Cavalry tech tree: A-
11:25 Siege tech tree: B+
11:56 Navy tech tree: C+ early; B+ late game
12:13 Monks: B
12:45 Defences: B
13:12 Economy: B
13:28 Closing thoughts on strategies
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Game: Age of Empires 2 HD with Forgotten Empires and African Kingom expansions
I suck at this game but every time i see these videos i get so hyped to play it!
lordofdarkdudes same
Three cheers for sucking and not caring!
Yea same here.
Same
same
After learning how to play the Turks, they have now become my favorite civ in team games. Especially if you play as pocket, the Turks are amazing. They have the knights and gold bonus which makes it very easy to support your team mates in castle age, as well as the option to be the only civ with long range gunpowder units in castle as well. Then, once you hit early imperial you become a power house immediately, and can assist in a push that most people can't counter. The combination of hand canoneers, bombard canons, camels, and free light cavalry upgrades, can make an early imperial force that can break through any defense and just steamroll your opponents, especially if your team mates support you. I would say that a team with a Turk and a Spanish ally are the most cohesive and extremely difficult to deal with.To summarize, I would say the Turks are excellent as support civ in mid game, and a super strong offensive push'er in early-mid imperial. They are just awesome! :D
Daniel Kemnitz
They also can field a nice scout rush if you do it just before you research Castle Age. That instant power spike to Light Cavalry just makes spearmen that much weaker counters to them.
I find to play very aggressively as Turks if you don't like to do that Fast Imp strat in a 1v1 game. Hell, depending on the map, you can just keep your opponent in their own base(with good scout rushing) and it makes your Imperial Age that much more threatening since you get ANOTHER instant power spike that can just end games.
Fast Imp can be applied if you play as Turk, Turk is really strong in early imp. However, I find it a bit risky. Fast imp is easily predictable, and it is difficult to implement this because of early rush on open maps. If you play on the open map as Turk, you can also apply Fast Castle, Castle Drop, Knight Rush, Scout Rush tactics. You can also apply Drush. While applying Scout Rush, you can use very few Archer and Sikirm against spearline units. You cannot use these units in Castle Age. So you shouldn't create them too much. However, it can be used for food conservation and while protecting Scouts. In addition, swordline units require only 20 gold. It is advantageous to use them when you have enough food, especially in Castle Age and Post-imp. The composition of Hussar + Gunpowder + a small number of Champions (especially against Halb and Skirm.) Is particularly effective against Infantry Civilizations. It can also be used against Foot Archer Civilizations and Cavalry Civilizations. Against these two civilizations, E.Janissary is better than Hand Cannoneer. However, Gunpowder-weighted army composition is not the only option. For example, using Fully Upgrated Heavy Cavalry Archers + auto-upgrated Hussars + some Fully Upgrated Cavaliers or Fully Upgrated Heavy Camels + Bombard Cannons is really fun. Turk FU Heavy Cavalry Archer is even better than Mangudai thanks to its "Sipahi" upgrate. With this method, you can play as if you were Mongol. So the Turks are actually a good Cavalry Archer Civilization. Ballistics and Thumb Ring upgrades are important for this in Castle Age. While these upgrades do not affect Gunpowder Units, they affect Cavalry Archers highly. In addition, Goths are an exception. Arrow and Gunpowder do not cause much damage to Huskarl. Only the composition of Light Cavalry and Hussar + Swordline (Champion) or FU Cavalier + Bombard Cannon or Trebuchet is better. Using offensive bombard tower will increase your pressure in all options
@@orkunyucel3095 yea for solo or duo games I prefer to go fast castle with a castle drop into janissaries, few civs can effectively deal with them in castle age. Knights don't do anything, skirmishers fall to the range and damage of the janissaries, and if the enemy goes for xbows then you have your own knights or free light cav - which can shoot you into banking up food for imp. The lack of onager also doesn't hurt them before imp, where you'd go bombards instead anyways, or scorps.
Shoot first, poor accuracy... so the elite janissary is a mix between Han Solo and a Stormtrooper
+scarfacemperor Han Trooper? Storm Solo?
I prefer the latter xD
***** Storm Solo sounds like it could be a cheat unit xD
+scarfacemperor Don't you mean Greedo and a Stormtrooper?
fenhen
Are you making fun, or do you really don't kow, that in the original version of Star Wars, Han shot first - like the rogue he is.
fenhen you are concerned by a 1000-gold monastery technology
Your passion for math has inspired me to start doing my homework...
My hate for math has inspired me to stop 20 seconds later...
However, you did actually get me to try by making math relatable. More than my teacher could do. Kudos :)
Great vid, SotL, as always. Today, you have earned a new subscriber and an imaginative chocolate-chip cookie. :)
So the upgrade to Elite Janissaries helps more than you think... but less than what you´d hope.
True
Replace the word "think" with "math"
Deadass I always found it hard to fight the Khmer and Burgundians together which I see a lot of in 2v2 ranked or Khmer and Japanese. Sometimes even Franks and Khmer but with the Turks and Spanish as a team in 2v2, they are so powerful it's not even funny. Especially since the Spanish have their Conquistadors and the Turks have the Janissaries. The Elite Janissary upgrade is more than worth it in long matches of 1+ hours. A whole battalion of about 60 can hold it's own against a ton of battle elephants and heavy cavalry. If you use Hussars to mix in with a the Janissaries, they're very effective. Also helps to have few bombard cannons. About 4-8 should do to help with buildings and castles. The extra range upgrade is insane too!
Turks+Spanish
Gold=Power
aurum potestas est!
If in a 3v3 Turks+Spanish+Teutons
Having a tanky melee wall of Paladins and Teutonic Knights to protect that Spanish economy and Turk gunpowder power would be amazing.
@@tankofnova9022 The Ultimate European Teamup .
I have waited for the second part for so long...
FINALLY IT IS HERE!!!
Gold-dependency is not really an issue in team games; the problem is with their *stone*-dependency: castles, bombard towers, unique tech...
On the other hand:
-excellent *gunpowder* not only for anti-infantry role, but anti-cavalry/archery too
-probably best *anti-siege civ*, what with the free hussar upgrade and the longest range of any bombard cannon
-best cavalry archers in the game
-siege rams + FU champions combo
-FU cavaliers and camels, just in case
Great review as always! :)
JuliusAkavirius
Lol :)
No, it stands for Fully Upgraded: as in, they have all the relevant technologies, though not necessarily any bonus.
+landochabod7 Gold dependency still is an issue in team games because most trade doesn't go up until early imperial age, if you lose map pressure before then or any access to your own gold you're still pretty screwed. If you're pocket in a TG you probably wont have this problem too much but if you're flank you are VERY likely to get either rushed or knight raided by the opposing pocket.
As always with the Turks, it's less about WHAT they can do late game, and more about HOW they can get there and still have a relevant economy/upgrade time
+landochabod7
Yep those are fairly good points. If you lose map pressure with Turks you pretty much auto lose when your safe gold runs out, if you fight too much for map control you risk either getting outplayed or losing to civs with stronger feudal/castle ages. Having free light cav is nice, but you don't need a tech for knights and they easily beat light cav anyway, and are pretty good into xbows+rams too seeing as you already mine gold faster, why not?
They don't rely on very expensive techs, just very expensive units meaning the can get them out quicker. They don't even particularly rely on castles too much - although having one is a huge power spike for them. I've seen pro arena games where they went for HC + BBC pushes with monks in castle age making castles fairly useless
+Sayujya Vaishnav I think you are an Indian? :D
Alright, then I'll say Teutons are the best civ vs. Turks because I'm a German xD
Ps: Yes, you're probably right. Indians strong civ, although I always would prefer Koreans over them.
tho now that recurved bow (Magyars unique tech) also gives +1 attack, Magyars FU cav archers are really strong... Spirit should do a top 5 cav archers (including Mangudai)
Spanish and Turks teamed up
Unbeatable navy, gold earnings, gunpowder FTW.
But Berbers + Turks, Better skirmishers by a wide margin than any other civ, better cavalry than most, and great guns and ships
Goth and Turks. No matter which attacks first, be it gothic flood of melee or a Turkish wave of gunpowder... you can't counter both.
I would like to point out some aspects on the Janissary that you have missed. Firstly, their 8 tile range increases the operational effectiveness of any and all units fighting within it by a drastic margin. For example, Champions can lay Paladins out cold so long as they remain within range of a Janissary firing line. Secondly, Janissaries can be a steel wall of pain if you toss a few monks in the back. By doing this, it helps sustain the combat effectiveness of them by keeping them in tip top condition and it also helps cut back spending on replacing dead ones. If you combine these aspects with the correct unit compositions, you will be nigh unstoppable.
The unit composition I typically use is as follows:
Champions
Heavy Cav Archers (w/ Sipahi & Parthian Tactics)
Hussars
Janissaries
Bombard Cannons (Preferably with Artillery tech)
Monks
+Mr556x45mm I do this too. I often do the line infantry tank : 30 jans, 4 monks, 4 bombards. And hussars as meat shield and flankers (siege rams can help protect against archers too)
And occasionally camels and horse archers.
+Mr556x45mm This army combo is indeed next to impossible to counter, but it's hardly ever possible to make it in a competitive game. As addressed in part one, Turks mostly shine in castle if you drop a castle and are able to do a lot of damage with janissaries or early-imp, when hussar kicks in and you have that immediate chemistry upgrade. You are talking about an army combo that is way too diverse to upgrade and train with an enemy at the door. You wouldn't have any troops out an hour in if you start training all that :p.
Anyway I'm just trying to say that your army composition is theoretically nearly impossible to counter, but it is practically also next to impossible to build.
Rudy Niet I will admit that it certainly is difficult to build, it's akin to Darth Vader building a Death Star in Star Wars. It takes a while, but once you have it....
+Mr556x45mm Once you have it it gets blown up by a single proton torpedo? :O
Shmandalf Bombard cannons can usually deal with siege weapons well before they can get within range.
Hey Law! Love the videos as usual. Wanted to request an overview on civs that work well together in team games i.e. What Civs are best together in a team game and how much they benefit from the team bonuses + tech comp. Not expecting it anytime soon if at all but I hope you see this and would consider it as I think it'd make an interesting topic which might not have been considered.
Keep up the great work!
Heard someone else in my village blasting your videos out their speakers! made me smile, Out in Scotland
Let's see the Italians next, they were made quite a bit better in the expansions, and one of the coolest civs.
They can’t pass Turks in gunpowder sorry
in a turk vs italian, im pretty sure the italian would wins.
Italians are powerfull against black powder ( never tried but on paper, yes ) , cavalry and infantry civ. They are also effectve against archer civ since they got bonus in archer's.
not the best civ but probably my favorite one ( if only they had a better cav or a true offensive bonuse... )
Love how it's also historically accurate that the Turks have the best cavalry archers
Actually the most accurate thing is jannysaries
Turks are pretty similar to those in rl, as long as they have gold they are nice :p
Seriously, I really love turkish culture and people. Such awesome guys over there between Europe and Asia :)
Also powerful in AoAK if course :D
Ps: If you are a Turk, thanks for inventing the Döner, it's the tastiest piece of food I've ever eaten xD
Kebab is love, Döner is life
Döner is so good right? (Im turk :D )
+Daniel Kemnitz Daniel gercek isminmi adam Danieli turk ismi sanmasın :D
I'm half türk ^^ Türk ismim Can, ama TH-cam'de kurlanmiyorum ^^
I live in Copenhagen, and I am practically bestfriends with my local Kebab dealer xD
Daniel Kemnitz I understand. If you dont feel comfortable you dont have to speak turkish :D
Spirit, don't forget Jannisary attack bonus vs rams and turkish genitours that is a 90hp archer trash in castle age! (if allied with berbers, totally fixes their bad trash problem)
+thenosa87 I shall immediately begin work on Part 3! lol
+thenosa87 it could be a good idea if he create videos about sinergy between civilizations.
+thenosa87 they also get 2+6 pierce armor because of parthian tactics.
+thenosa87 I totally agree. Their genitours are monstrous if allied with Berbers.
+papermaniac Yeah, that's easily one of the best combinations out there. I love how a Berber/Turk team transforms the latter. The Turks go from having the worst trash out of any civ to having Hussars and Genitours with 95hp. With units like that I'd say that easily gives them some of the best trash out there (Though granted if you're teamed with a player trash isn't quite as important).
This got me into turks, they're awesome.
For 27:30 Turk bombard/hand cannon rush: 32 vil. Fuedal, 34 vil. Castle, 36 vil. Imperial. Build 2nd archery range and one siege workshop and university while advancing to imperial. One TC until at least 30 minute. Do not forget to switch heavily into gold around Castle age.
3:23
TO THE SCENARIO EDITOR!!!
3:24 Dude, that's 5 champions and 4 halberdiers, not 5. I can no longer trust your analyses. ;D
+Sylvester Dark oh yeah... it was a 3x3 square. Damn.
Ok guys, shut down the channel - I'm a fraud. It's over.
+Spirit Of The Law DON'T LET HIM RUN! GET HIM!
So, with gold, you're the boss when playing turks.
For me it seems, the moment the turks hit Imperial age they dominate at land, range... Than you play to resist and wait their gold gets killed, than you win...;)
@@majormononoke8958 unless they have 3 relics then they destroy no matter what.
If you prefer Turks
1. You should use Janissaries and Hand Cannoneers that are better againt to infantry and cheaper than Janissary by grouping together. This group is highly effective against all infantries. This group is also very good against the cavalry. The disadvantage of Hand Cannoneers become accessible at Imperial Age. In the Castle Age, the group consists only of Janissaries.
2. You should have Hussars and Light Cavalries against mangonel-onager, enemy skirmisers and archers. You don't need gold to create them. So you can keep your gold for the Janissaries and Bombard Cannons. Hussars also stall the enemy cavalry. Attack quickly, wander around and draw the attention of enemy units on itself. Thus, the enemy units chasing Hussars and Light Cavalry become the target of the group of Janissaries and Hand Cannoneers. Towards the end of the Feudal Age you can create Scout Cavalries. When it reaches the Castle Age, it will develop directly to the Light Cavalries.
3. You can create full upgraded Cavalry Archers. You can use them for rush with the Light Cavalry. You can also create a small number of Knights. Full Upgraded Heavy Archer are also good against the Cataphracts and Conquistadors with or without Heavy Camels.
4. Bombard Cannons do the main destruction. You can also use ram or mangonel in the Castle Age. But during the Castle Age, the Janissaries and the Knights and Swordline units would do well against to building. Bombard Cannons must be protected by the Janissaries, Hand Cannoneers.
5. In addition, you can use heavy camels, full upgraded heavy cavalry that exist at Turks, Chinese, Burmese and swordline units (such as champions) in their for close protection.
Bonus: You should not change the formations of large gunpower armies too much. They are generally not suitable for micro. When you release them, they get the ideal formation for the attack. This is the formation of the half circle. They do this automatically. You should do Micro with other Units. But small group of Janissaries is very usefull for micro.
@@orkunyucel3095 tesekkür ederim,
Yigit Can OK, Fast Imp can be applied if you play as Turk, Turk is really strong in early imp. However, I find it a bit risky. Fast imp is easily predictable, and it is difficult to implement this because of early rush on open maps. If you play on the open map as Turk, you can also apply Fast Castle, Castle Drop, Knight Rush, Scout Rush tactics. You can also apply Drush. While applying Scout Rush, you can use very few Archer and Sikirm against spearline units. You cannot use these units in Castle Age. So you shouldn't create them too much. However, it can be used for food conservation and while protecting Scouts. In addition, swordline units require only 20 gold. It is advantageous to use them when you have enough food, especially in Castle Age and Post-imp. The composition of Hussar + Gunpowder + a small number of Champions (especially against Halb and Skirm.) Is particularly effective against Infantry Civilizations. It can also be used against Foot Archer Civilizations and Cavalry Civilizations. Against these two civilizations, E.Janissary is better than Hand Cannoneer. However, Gunpowder-weighted army composition is not the only option. For example, using Fully Upgrated Heavy Cavalry Archers + auto-upgrated Hussars + some Fully Upgrated Cavaliers or Fully Upgrated Heavy Camels + Bombard Cannons is really fun. Turk FU Heavy Cavalry Archer is even better than E.Mangudai thanks to its "Sipahi" upgrate. With this method, you can play as if you were Mongol. So the Turks are actually a good Cavalry Archer Civilization. Ballistics and Thumb Ring upgrades are important for this in Castle Age. While these upgrades do not affect Gunpowder Units, they affect Cavalry Archers highly. In addition, Goths are an exception. Arrow and Gunpowder do not cause much damage to Huskarl. Only the composition of Light Cavalry and Hussar + Swordline (Champion) or FU Cavalier + Bombard Cannon or Trebuchet is better. Using Offensive Bombard Tower will increase your pressure in all options.
I love your videos, and appreciate all of the editing/production value you add to your videos.
WE ARE THE EXCEPTION! - Mongols
+PegasusLinux Paramore - You are the only exception. Perfect song.
DrearyPlane8
Oh lord. Paramore is awesome.
+PegasusLinux I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO GOT THE CRASH COURSE REFERENCE AHAHAHAH
cue the Khan yell lol
One more thing spirit, I am pretty sure that while 6 Janissary lose to 3 paladin like in your test, 40 janissary will definitely kill more than 40 paladin. In fact janissary can counter paladin once they are at a critical mass. Turk doesn't really need camel or monk to counter Calvary and can just stick with what they are good at
Still wouldn't hurt to have some 4 Monks in the back of that line. If not to convert Paladins, then at least to keep your Janissaries more tanky.
If you prefer Turks
1. You should use Janissaries and Hand Cannoneers that are better againt to infantry and cheaper than Janissary by grouping together. This group is highly effective against all infantries. This group is also very good against the cavalry. The disadvantage of Hand Cannoneers become accessible at Imperial Age. In the Castle Age, the group consists only of Janissaries.
2. You should have Hussars and Light Cavalries against mangonel-onager, enemy skirmisers and archers. You don't need gold to create them. So you can keep your gold for the Janissaries and Bombard Cannons. Hussars also stall the enemy cavalry. Attack quickly, wander around and draw the attention of enemy units on itself. Thus, the enemy units chasing Hussars and Light Cavalry become the target of the group of Janissaries and Hand Cannoneers. Towards the end of the Feudal Age you can create Scout Cavalries. When it reaches the Castle Age, it will develop directly to the Light Cavalries.
3. You can create full upgraded Cavalry Archers. You can use them for rush with the Light Cavalry. You can also create a small number of Knights. Full Upgraded Heavy Archer are also good against the Cataphracts and Conquistadors with or without Heavy Camels.
4. Bombard Cannons do the main destruction. You can also use ram or mangonel in the Castle Age. But during the Castle Age, the Janissaries and the Knights and Swordline units would do well against to building. Bombard Cannons must be protected by the Janissaries, Hand Cannoneers.
5. In addition, you can use heavy camels, full upgraded heavy cavalry that exist at Turks, Chinese, Burmese and swordline units (such as champions) in their for close protection.
Bonus: You should not change the formations of large gunpower armies too much. They are generally not suitable for micro. When you release them, they get the ideal formation for the attack. This is the formation of the half circle. They do this automatically. You should do Micro with other Units. But small group of Janissaries is very usefull for micro.
I just tested it and 40 paladins beat 60 janissaries with 18 paladins leftover so your claim is not true at all.
What’re you doing over here Marcel, this isn’t RCT!
@@MarcelVos
Sam Au was wrong on the 40v40 thing but he is right that Turks can beat a Paladin spam.
Basically you spam Fully upgraded Hussars (Now with bonus pierce armour) and it matters not if they die quickly because your janis from behind will keep killing and wont take much damage. You essentially trade off hussars for cavaliers/paladins, an extremely good trade even if you lose more hussars.
Of course, you ideally would finish the game as turks in early imperial before they get a chance to upgrade to paladin.
Thanks for the vid!
When talking about the expansions you should definetly have talked about the Genitour. Having a Teammate playing as Berber makes Turks have the BEST skirms in the game and makes them devastating in trashwars.
And chuck a Spanish mate in too. I can just see a massive synergy between them.
the majel Barret intro made me your biggest fan just now
lol no
Happy New Year Spirit!Thanks for the overview , really liked it .However , I think you tend to undervalue range a bit. In this hc v/s jan v/s ej , you fought them against skirmishers right in range. I think the jans fare much better aginst skirms and other ranged units due to that +1 range in massed battles, since (a) jans get a tile travel worth of extra fire, which reduces the skirm numbers before the battle (helping the "gang-up" of janissaries over skirms) and (b) We've all seen the genius AI with which our villagers find paths and this ensures that the skirms that dont get in range will, in no way, be given a chance to attack till the front ones blocking them die, or decide to do some weird shit. Of course, you can walk all skirms into having jans in range, but half your skirms are probably dead already , and then number advantage will kick in anyway.I think massed, out of range starting battles will provide a different ,more appropriate result. I felt the same thing with your longbow vs arba comparision. While only looking at the hp, attack ,accuracy is enough when going for a melee vs ranged match up, range dictates in the massed up range vs range battles. Fletching done archers melt down archers with +1 def instead because of this(with sane micro of course).I understand you dont want your japanese hcs to look worse than just 9 less hp by comparision, but, I'm sure you love math just as much.
Nice to see one of the original civs, (only play HD) and have been waiting for this too long.
P.S. I still saw the camel= boat one .
I love how he always squishes the Japanese somehow.
Even though statistically, Turks are likely to win against the Japanese.
@@Irish_preacher Makes sense, gunpowder makes their faster infantry attack useless as they get shot before they can close the distance.
Turks, Berbers, Spanish and Italians😍
That makes them god against a goth player or Aztec player
Zeynep Gul Aztecs will surely get steamrolled by Turks, but it’s still a bit complicated in the case of Goths, because Huskarl’s high speed and pierce armor will counter a Hand Cannoneer or Elite Janissary line, as the latter won’t have +10 damage against infantry anyway. However, that’s not the end of the world, as long as you support your cannoneers with Hussar meat shields and Bombard Cannons in the back. Allies also supporting you with their trash army is another good option. Protect Turk gunpowder units and you’ll seal the win in the late game.
Part 1: th-cam.com/video/8ArnF1X9F8E/w-d-xo.html
+Spirit Of The Law Will you remake your Japanese civ overview?
+Mike Fluffgren my plan for months now has been to finish all the civilization overviews with Aztecs last, and then maybe go back and either completely replace or add a followup to those early ones (pre-Indian overviews,) with a more mathematical view. Those first ones were very opinion-based, especially when it came to the bonuses, and they certainly stick out a bit now, hey?
+Spirit Of The Law Spirit, Are you going to make civ overviews of The African Kingdoms too?
+Spirit Of The Law Spirit, I miss your gameplays.
+Mandellla yeah. an Ethiopian overview would be cool. they seem to have a good feudal Archer rush.
The civ that I got from the quiz, I must say its a good guide. I have played them a few times and I feel pretty comfy with using their bonuses despite the heavy gold dependency. So hopefully we can see maybe the Italians next, and btw, when playing Italians against the Spanish...it is downright hilarious in result when fighting conquistadors with an Italian unique unit army.
DANGIT! Where is my graphing chart spirit of the law? I thought by now it was tradition to be making a chart of some sort (usually graphing chart) every video. And to think, you were doing well... now THAT'S not very mathy.
Turks in Gold Rush map. GG EZ
if you can secure the middle...
and there an es map (or is it MegaRandom, not sure) that, randomly, can give you patches of 15 gold mines
00:21 rip champion bottom left
xD f ur eyes
elite Janissaries are amazing , but I never send to attack without Monks .
i liked it better in 1 part but whatever :3 i can handle clicking a link, also happy new year :D
I quite like and enjoying playing as a Turks (often getting them when playing Random Nomad), cus I like Malians, Italians or Teutons playing style :-).
They are heavy late game based, but once they hit it and gold still coming, they are unstoppable, so often they finish the game before gold runs out (slinging).
Also they are best civ at crushing Goths (even if Goths have an Italian ally), because their Huskarls are useless, in other hand their own gunpowder units are less effective and outranged by Turks (keep an eye on Onagers with Bombards) ;-).
+Michael Šperl Are you sure they're powerful against Goths? Elite Huskarls are pretty good against hand cannoneers, let alone against janissaries and cavalry archers; also they cost about half the gold and are created at an incredible rate.
Turks might react with cavaliers, but Goths can swarm halberdiers, or champions, but Goths can field their own, and it's quantity over quality.
Generally, the problem with Turks vs Goths is that the first need a lot of different buildings to maintain a balanced army, while the others can simply build 4-5 barracks and just swarm the appropriate infantry combination.
IMO the best civs to stop the Goths' infantry flood are those with a powerful melee unique unit, especially the Teutons, the Japanese and the Byzantines, who all have hand cannoneers as well, and maybe the Aztecs.
landochabod7
I am sure of it, when Turks player have good late game and some skill playing them :-). Goths also need a good late game for "swarming the map" and as the Turks they are also pretty dead in early game and more than Turks (lacking walls). But you are right about one thing, when you meet very good Goths player, you are dead with any civ ;-).
+landochabod7 Turks have counter units to everything the goths have. In late game with gold it's no question that the turks crush them, early on the goths have a chance if they strike early, or if they are able to deprive them of gold late game. But if the turk guy either does successful feudal rushing with archers or scouts, castle rushes in a smart way, or has a map that makes booming to imp possible, & micros properly to keep his gold units alive, he should kill easily.
& no there's no point in making cavaliers vs goths.
+Chr1551 Ehh, not so sure about lategame with gold. Turks have a wide range of units, but in my experience if Goths go heavy on EHuskarls there's little they can do:
-they have nice champions as a meatshield, but they lose badly to Goths' due to cost and creation speed
-as you say, there's no point trying cavaliers, nor cav archers for that matter
-hand cannoneers are their best bet, but as SotL showed in his Goths review they and EHuskarls are a mutual counter, and the latter cost half the gold and train in no time. Also, hand cannoneers don't seem to have ballistic and they miss a lot.
All in all, they don't really have a *counter* to Huskarls. Teutonic Knights, Cataphracts, Samurais, Jaguar Warriors yes, hand cannoneers not really.
Again, Turks have a lot of options, but options take time and micromanaging, while Goths can simply build barracks as they go along and always make the appropriate "infantry cocktail".
In late Castle / early Imperial Turks can win it with 8-range Janissaries, cheap bombard towers (technology-wise I mean) and I guess rams, but later, as a civ that does mainly pierce damage, they have a hard time against the Goths' unique unit.
recently I owe all my victories to the Turks, the Jenissary seems to be soooo Powerful against everything! Great videos! Greetings from México! (Y)
So I've come up with something; knowing this about the Janissary and Hand-Cannoners this is what I'm thinking: Janissary=gunpowder counter to archers and cavalry and Hand-Cannoners=gunpowder counter to infantry. So if you have the gold this would be one kickass unit competition: Janissaries, Hand-Cannoners and Bombard Cannons all working together. I think with the Forgotten + African Empires changes it really has made the Turks even more of a versatile civ and I'd now class them into two categories: Gunpowder and Calvary civ. I've always liked gunpowder units and I'll have to try this the next time I play AoE. The Turks really sound like a beast in theory and on paper now. The Turks have the potential to be one of the most powerful civs and I'm highly impressed with them after seeing this overview of them; especially with that surprise on their cavalry archers. As always, another great video Spirit; thanks.
Plz do a Celt Overview! That would be awesome! I would like to thank you for your awesome vids!
Mangudai is a little more expensive than the cavalry archers, so with equal numbers they really should be stronger.
Janissaries have that low frame delay though. That's helpful for kiting them around. Especially considering that without upgrades, Janissaries technically outpace militia line units.
i was going to write some long review about why turks are good but ill give u the short version. 3 short points
1.If you think the turks are too gold reliant its because you are not using the hussar properly. 2/3 a cup of hussar. 1/3 a cup of janissary/hand cannoneer. a pinch of bombard cannon.
2.and whenever you attack make sure u send a few groups of 2-3 hussars to every place where your opponent has a lot of villagers, so you will at least cause some damage. if you know you are doomed u can usually retreat the gold costing units and have the hussars cover you as you run.
3. especially janissaries, but also hand cannons tend to be much better than archers even though archers fire faster because of pierce armour. hand cannons are way above it while archers only a little over it, esp for paladins.
I would've preferred a comparison between the Castle Janissary against other Castle Age units, because it's where the unit shines imo.
does the creation speed stack with other team bonuses? so would turks make bombard cannons extra extra fast when allied with a celt? same for hc when allied with brit?
They definitely seem to be a 'window of opportunity' kind of civ, the window being the moment they hit imperial to the time they run out of gold, with a decent enough castle age. But once they are out of gold its over.
The other big advantage of the jannisary is that they don't have a minimum range. That means they don't just stand and die in melee. Hand canoneers can do that.
janissary shuld have 15% bouns damage then
i feel so special cause i commented earlier that he rarely puts F as a grade.. and then he put it on their trash or something.. feel so special xD.. great video aswell / videos..
9:05 Crash Course World History reference?
MONGOLS
Jannissaries when massed up to 20 or 30 units is virtually unstoppable… even Paladins, Huskarls don’t stand a chance against them…and pair them with a couple of long range bombard cannons and that’s it…💥💥
I've been thinking about this for quite a while now, but I never really found the place for it:
Me and my oldest buddy used to have hour-long LAN games on Black Forest against AI with him as Turks and me as the Spanish. We've been trying to make time for a revival LAN and now I keep wondering what unit compositions would be the best.
Turks are pretty straight forward I'd say. Janissaries/Hand Cannoneers in bulk with siege cannons in the back and Hussars for raiding/countering. With the new addons, one can possibly add Horsearchers and Camels now. Having a Spanish teammate offsets the big weakness regarding gold in the late game. Not to mention Spanish have elite-skirmishers and halberdiers.
As Spanish, my typical solo setup is usually Knights and Conquistadores for raids, supported by monks or missionaries for healing and cannons to take down castles/towncenters. This combines also great with forward castling as a place to retreat to.
Once the game progresses I add in a mix out of halberdiers and (elite-)skirmishers for soaking up enemy attacks. Which I usually already have in smaller numbers at home in reactions to earlier enemy attacks. When I have the ressources and time I use handcannoneers as the final piece to crush any champions etc.
The Turkish team bonus is actually pretty weird in this situation. It would benefit my solo strategy greatly, but I'm kinda wondering if producing gunpowder units with a Turk on your team is actually that useful.
Should siege be completely left to the Turk (range)? In general, how useful is the higher gunpowder firing speed in this case?
And if one were to add a third civ, any suggestions?
Fair points raised there but well... Thank you, looks like I'm not the only one who could see a fruitful Spanish x Turks alliance in AoE 2 :)
I think the Teutons have the best bombard towers because they can fire two shots at once
Chuck some hand canoneers in and they can fire about 3 shots at once.
Turks + Teutons; let the jans garrison in the bombard towers , you can get 4 shots ;)
Hello, dude I' loving your work here, gave me tons of info I never really considered
Now about the next civ overview, what about the Incas?
Also Happy New Year, a new fan.
Please do the Incas and Italians next. Both were my favorite Forgotten Empires civs and they both got buffed in African Kingdoms.
fast imp in arena ,absolutely best civ
Maybe if they would point before shooting they would have a chance of hitting things a bit more often...
Turk Navy is a bit underrated, artillery increase to cannon galleon is great on any map with water-even a pond on BF or Arabia...moreover it will outrange Korean towers & Teuton castles with ease. Bombard cannon range is great for same reason...in fact, Turks really don't even need trebs really unless you want to take down trees. As long as you have the gold late game(relics & trade carts help here) janissary, caveliers, hussars, bombard cannons & villagers building bombard towers makes a killer offense...champs or camels being optional depending on opponents army. Stealing gold from enemy mines from early exploits with dropping a castle on it helps that eco too. Don't underestimate the defensive/offensive power of 3 stacked Turk castles filled with janisarries, bringing them out for extra damage against attackers, then tucking them back in castle to heal. All the while keeping pressure on with Cavaliers, hussars & bombard cannons. Possibly one of the most dangerous post imp civs in aoe2.
Brief note: Though I mostly agree on your evaluation, I have to point out it would be a bad idea for the Turks to completely ignore Champions. Since the Turks have terrible trash of their own and kind of need every ounce of gold they can get, their Champions are basically essential for dealing with trash units. Sure, it is not the ONLY option they have, far from it, but Champions are one of the few units that can counter all three main trash units with any consistency. Ironically, the Turkish Janissary is another, but the difference is: The Janissary cost MUCH more gold then the Champion, and if you are using it against Skirmishers or Hussars, even if you win you are still likely to lose a couple. The Champions will be more of a "Low risk, high reward" deal against trash as, even if you do lose a few of then( Such as, to whatever the enemy trash is actually supporting ), it shouldnt be too much of a big loss.
that intial attack delay is important for kiting though. It's the reason elite mangudai can kill paladins without losing hp but the cavalry archer has a big problem against them
What i learned in age of empires class is Turks are basically a high risk high reward civ while also being a high skill cap to get the best out of them
One way to deal with the lack of gold... is to beat one of the enemies, and save his market, once you defeated him, make him an ally so you can now send a Trade Cart
Happy new year!
not new year yet
Are you from Australia?
+David Hammac (Blah03)
Even Australia is still in 31st of Dec in this time.
What are u talking about lol
Hey Spirit of the Law you should comment on their ideal alliances because they get a massive boost from certain allies.
Like having the Berbers on their team which grants the turks the best genitours in the game.
+AdmiralLawman It's true, that genitour team bonus complements Turks very nicely
+AdmiralLawman
I'd say *Spanish* for the trading bonus and the excellent trash to complement their lack of.
Well, aside from the great Turkish hussar, which you can further improve by teaming up with *Mongols* (line of sight) or Huns (creation speed), though the Huns are perhaps not really a team game civ.
I feel like their worst enemies are massed skirmishers guarded by pikemen, which points to Byzantines as their obvious nemesis, so I guess I would pair with someone who gets good onagers: again, Mongols rather than Huns.
Finally, *Goths*, since they're a late game powerhouse too, but unlike the Turks they have almost no need for stone (just one castle for anarchy, conscription and perfusion), so they can tribute the rest to their Turkish ally to push bombard towers and pay for artillery.
+AdmiralLawman I'm not convinced it's worth it just to get the gentors as berbers are one of the weakest civs a long with vikings & huns in late game unless you are planning on ending them game in castle /early imp. then they are good though. Spanish seem like the most ideal ally if you are able to trade. Depends on the map I guess.
+landochabod7 Yeah goths seem like another good choice.
GREAT ! as usual.
If you prefer Turks
1. You should use Janissary and Hand Cannoneer (superior to infantry and cheaper) by grouping together. This group is highly effective against all infantries. This group is also very good against the cavalry. The disadvantage of Hand Cannoneer becomes accessible at Imperial Age. In the age of the castle, the group consists only of Janissaries.
2. You must have Hussars and Light Cavalries against onager and enemy archers. You don't need gold to create them. So you can keep your gold for the Janissaries. They also stall the enemy cavalry. Attack quickly, wander around and draw the attention of enemy units on itself. Thus, the enemy units chasing Hussars and Light Cavalry become the target of the group of Janissaries and Hand Cannoneers. Towards the end of the Feudal Age you can create Scout Cavalries. When it reaches the Castle Age, it will develop directly to the Light Cavalries. You can also create a small number of Knights.
3. Bombard Cannons do the main destruction. You can also use ram in the Castle Age. But during the Castle Age, the Janissaries and the Knights would do well. Bombard Cannons must be protected by the Janissaries.
I just played an arena game with Turks against Aztecs.
Made light cav for scouting and against monks in early castle age while we were vying for relics.
Then started massing jannisaries and bombard canons. Opponent only made infantry and trebs in over confidence.
Completely massacred his army. He couldn't even use his trebs one time.
Pleasantly surprised, I used tot hink Turks were an inferior civ.
In addition
You can create full upgraded Cavalry Archers. You can use them for rush with the Light Cavalry. You can also create a small number of Knights. Full Upgraded Heavy Archer are also good against the Cataphracts and Conquistadors with or without Heavy Camels.
You can also use heavy camels, full upgraded heavy cavalries that exist only at Turks, Chinese, Burmese and swordline units (such as champions) in their for close protection.
Bonus: You should not change the formations of large gunpower armies too much. They are generally not suitable for micro. When you release them, they get the ideal formation for the attack. This is the formation of the half circle. They do this automatically. You should do Micro with other Units. But small group of Janissaries is very usefull for micro.
Salil Deshpande, Fast Imp can be applied if you play as Turk, Turk is really strong in early imp. However, I find it a bit risky. Fast imp is easily predictable, and it is difficult to implement this because of early rush on open maps. If you play on the open map as Turk, you can also apply Fast Castle, Castle Drop, Knight Rush, Scout Rush tactics. You can also apply Drush. While applying Scout Rush, you can use very few Archer and Sikirm against spearline units. You cannot use these units in Castle Age. So you shouldn't create them too much. However, it can be used for food conservation and while protecting Scouts. In addition, swordline units require only 20 gold. It is advantageous to use them when you have enough food, especially in Castle Age and Post-imp. The composition of Hussar + Gunpowder + a small number of Champions (especially against Halb and Skirm.) Is particularly effective against Infantry Civilizations. It can also be used against Foot Archer Civilizations and Cavalry Civilizations. Against these two civilizations, E.Janissary is better than Hand Cannoneer. However, Gunpowder-weighted army composition is not the only option. For example, using Fully Upgrated Heavy Cavalry Archers + auto-upgrated Hussars + some Fully Upgrated Cavaliers or Fully Upgrated Heavy Camels + Bombard Cannons is really fun. Turk FU Heavy Cavalry Archer is even better than Mangudai thanks to its "Sipahi" upgrate. With this method, you can play as if you were Mongol. So the Turks are actually a good Cavalry Archer Civilization. Ballistics and Thumb Ring upgrades are important for this in Castle Age. While these upgrades do not affect Gunpowder Units, they affect Cavalry Archers highly. In addition, Goths are an exception. Arrow and Gunpowder do not cause much damage to Huskarl. Only the composition of Light Cavalry and Hussar + Swordline (Champion) or FU Cavalier + Bombard Cannon or Trebuchet is better. Using offensive bombard tower will increase your pressure in all options.
@@orkunyucel3095 yup👍 good tactics.. I usually don't make cavalry archers since they are so expensive to make and upgrade all the way, might try it soon
janissary was a powerful replacement of hc waaay before when hc had a minimum attack range
You deserve more subs.
Historical Janissaries: elite soldiers
Aoe2 Jamissaries: damn I missed...
"Or maybe they just have to be the exception"
I see what you did there
love this videos ...
One thing you should mention is that Turks is VERY weak to Briton. No elite skirmisher and Onager means almost no counter to the longbow+halberdier combo. Hussar+cannoneer doesn't really work as Briton meat shields kills your meat shield and longbow out range you. The only real deterrent would be forward bombardment tower+Cannon but even then it cost a lot of gold and the Briton can just out spam you as its army is much cheaper. You can argue this weakness applies to other archer civ like Mayan and Chinese too but at least they don't have the range of Briton and are much easier to deal with
Not really, a few Bombards and Bombard Towers would absolutely wreck anything (speaking of slow or stationary units) but rams and Trebuchets. And those puny overrated Onagers would go down so easily to Bombards in particular - not to mention being hard to field in numbers. Longbowmen and Skirms are a must against Janissaries though and they imo should be the backbone of a Briton army. (They're also one of my favourite civs btw)
I truly wish SOTL would make a modern Turk overview.
Result= Turks need gold. A lot... Thanks for that great video . This was very helpful !
in history,turkish armies are complicated actually.they have massive power against europeans,until holy allience wars,(polish saves austria's asses).jannisaries makes many rebellions agains crown,and those rebellions ends with money losses.and this is kills economy of empire.when the II.Osman tried remove jannisaries but he betrayed and killed by jannisaries.until reign of II.Mahmut,jannisaries cant removed from army.but its too late for reformations.
+Barbaros Akyıldız
Jannisaries were often trained from Slaves, thats why they rebelled :-).
+Michael Šperl Slaves? No, but young kids from christian familes? Yes...
The Janisaries rebelion was because they were awareded the spoils of war and had no rights to marry or own land or basicly anything but be an angel of death.One of the key inspirations to the space marines of games workshop :)
The Empire had economic problems alongside the lack of expansion and battles or actual victorys ment less loot and less to enjoy.
-(USA)Bruce
The reds will rise again So still they were Slaves by some sort, I was literally close :-).
+M-Ray Usa Thank you for answer.
aslo after 2 years of removed jannissries , ottomans had to give lands to greeks and russians came near of Edirne and Egyptian rebels came Adana. Historically i think 'jannissary remove' was wrong.
+M-Ray Usa after two years just greeks had land. my other words more after
In medival 2, jannisarries have 3 types. In real history; most of jannisarries didnt use gunpowder weapons. It is a different department's work in Ousmanly army. Jannisarries were used to use every weapon perfectly, esspecially axe, archery, spear, sword, big knifes...etc. Rarely they used gun powder weapons. Janniserries were well educated soldiers. They were special forces of their age.
By the way 'janniserry' orijinal pronounciation is: 'yanicherry'. And it means; 'New soldier' in turkish
@@rannosibalov2720 soldiers werent and arent slaves in medeaval age and today in any army
Berber ally could be useful. Their genitours can have all upgrades and + 20hp. Might be a solution for unupgraded skirmishers...
having as 1 part sort of makes more sense, perhaps just add an annotation to the rating parts? though if the 2 parts makes it easier to upload I'm fine with whatever
I love the how the game made historical accurate The Turks
caüturing relics is the best strategy to play turks :D
Do you ever plan to review age of empires 3? I'd like to see that.
Champions could be good as a meat shield for your hand cannoneers.
yeah espacially againts mezo civs(eagles)
Hey mate, just wondering if you could do (or have already done) a video on how to get sufficient gold in different scenarios. For example, is it better to first mine all gold deposits or focus on gold carts asap. How do you get gold if there is no teammate with a market?
Noob question : What is the name of the theme starting at 11:13 ? sounds so medieval
Cue Mongletage!!! they are the exception. nice ref :)
Once I randomly got turks and all the relics (save one) were near me. THAT situation favors the turks.
All you needed was an Aztec ally and you'd be loving life.
Tarquinus88 If that was a thing, the bombard cannons would know no limit. Still dont like the Turks, Goths all the way.
Didn't realize turks get 40 health on the cav archers with the new unique tech and bloodlines... Might they be a cav archer civ? 100 health instead of 80 vs another civ like the huns that gets them cheaper seems like a good tradeoff except that sipahi costs 500 resources total where the hun bonus is free.
Small question, remember how you said Spanish archers are oddly effective because of the relationship with tactic viability, popularity and expectedness? Could the same perhaps be said of the Turkish spears and skirmishers?
The turks are the people who originally came up with thanksgiving and the turkey feast 🦃
They also invented the Ottoman furniture.
I'd like to know: how much "broken" are the new african kingdom units? specially the gbeto and shotel warrior...I don't have the game but I've heard they are fast and have strong attack
I suppose you'll do the respective overview in the future
maybe make a Chinese overview? and how to have a good defence with the chu ko nu?
+Zindai x
chu ko nu?
just trash that shit up.
if you can keep the enemy from touching them with pikes and keep mangonels off with bombards and cav they will pump out huge damage over time
Ben Baker that's really difficult to guard them with trash units like pikes against something like huskarls or champions though, so all you can do is skirmish with them and retreat back inside of the walls. Even mangudai is extremely tough to counter since the chu ko nos move slow and have basically no range :(
Zindai x huskarls?
switch to whatever infantry you can muster- full champs if i recall and with cheaper techs- or ideally an ally (slav, celt etc.) some siege
and for mangudai also mix in some skirmishers and mangonels
but post-imperial chu ko nus with rocketry and enough of a meat shield should cut down almost anything
ally with britons for archery bonus, celts for scorpions and saracens for archer building attack
Ben Baker thanks for the ideas i'll try them out : )
Zindai x oh I forgot- many great players like Resonance22 and Zero Empires and maybe some of the real pros like the Viper would surely have several matches where they play the chinese
especially important is their early start of extra vills
have fun!
Hi Spirit, Are you planning to review the berbers any time soon? Would you consider them a decent civ on arabia? :)
+István Herpai all of the new civs are better than decent on pretty much every map haha
Oh damn. that clip at the beginning was from Voyager, wasn't it?
Please do Aztecs next :)
Nice overview as usual. Between me and my brother playing the original Jannies tended to be called Janitors, because they're good at cleaning up.
I think Janissaries are far more effective in Castle Age and too much focus here was laid on their Imperial play where they get a bit lacklustre. 17 damage is still 17 damage and is going to cause quite some pain to any Castle Age unit - who cares if Pallys can wreck them if by Imperial you've already gone ahead and turned their stables into swiss cheese in the first place.
Of course, I do have 1550 RM ELO so don't listen to me . . .
Any chance of a look at the Chinese soon?
I'm sure the Janissaries would murder those 3 Paladins in that test if they were allowed to hit and run, and also target them one by one.
Hey Spirit -great review, as always- in your quiz I got Turks (actually I got Goths first, because I wanted them), since then I try to play just Turks (not successful…).What do you think about fast imperial, I mean should I specialize myself on it or not?
+Vatanperver I would say the map should determine whether you go for fast imperial more than your civ, to be honest, or at least they're both important factors to consider. It's a vulnerable strategy unless you're safely walled (black forest or arena), so it's a dangerous default tactic and people might already expect it from Turks, so I'd put a knight or archer rush higher on a priority list of things to specialize in first. I'm not a pro or anything, but it seems like if you have a solid fast castle down it's not a huge shift to turn that into a fast imp (an extra few villagers in dark age and lots more on gold early are the big changes).
So, it means it's pointless to trying early imperial rush as a beginner. Well, thanks.
Another thing is; shoul a Turk player learn how to play in goldrush properly? (I think it's obvious but whatever, newbieism…)
Just incase I unfortunately random them, I shall take notes.
Don't know but love to watch this video after 7 years , (although new update change there bonus 😂)
Doesn`t the bombard cannons have greater range than most castles and towers with Artillery? I remember that when I used to play against my brother with the Turks I didn`t spend resources in trebuchets because the bombards did their jobs.
Yes, Turk bombard towers actually out range castles.