Those early b&w scenes brought me back to the time when Joan brought Bob on stage and did, in fact, introduce him to the 'folk scene'. I was there in Newport in 1963 when she did, and they performed together and also at the daily workshops. In 64 he was the headliner, and 65 was all his...as people still talk about it. The stories aren't all true about the booing. I had gone to see Joan at a solo show in 63-64 I think it was...I was a very young teen...and walked to the front of the stage as she was warming up before the show wanting to ask for her autograph... maybe just say hello...but I was so awestruck by her beauty and presence, that I just went back to my seat!! Those were very great times. Indeed.
I live in RI and went to many of the festivals back in the day. The 69 Jazz festival was like Woodstock...a month before it!! Janis in 68... In 78 I worked for a caterer friend of mine doing concessions and catering to the performers. Good times.
Which is exactly why, after hearing those words, I didn't even bother wasting my time listening to the rest of it! There are plenty of other more accurately researched Dylan/Baez pieces to be found all over TH-cam!
Let's not forget that Dylan takes pride in having made a deal with "the Big One (a.k.a.the Devil)😈, in order to become famous and successful! So, that's why Baez talks about "nightmares"! It sounds outlandish, I know, but still...
@@thewillowtree1127 dear friend, he is not the only celebrity to have done such a thing AND bragged about it! Having watched a documentary about the Evil one and his connection to our world, during a seminary, I can tell that this is the bitter truth. From then on, it's up to you to believe it or not! Greetings!
Just saw A Complete Unknown movie. Loved it. I appreciate both their talents and stories. Glad they were alive and shared their talent with so many. Peace.
There was never any chance they would stay together, or even have anything like an equal relationship when they were a couple. They were fundamentally different. For Bob, the important things were career and his music; he wasn't particularly interested in politics, even back then. He later said that he started writing protest songs in Greenwich Village in the early 60s simply "because that's what people wanted to hear back then", and he wanted to hone his craft and make a name for himself. Joan on the other hand, was seriously interested in and motivated by politics. Whereas Bob initially used political songs to get famous, Joan used her fame to communicate political messages; Bob was an artist, Joan a platform for her beliefs. She believed in "the cause" in itself, whereas Bob didn't. She was a group person; Bob the ultimate individualist. Joan stayed in politics and protest, but Bob quickly grew impatient with all that stuff, resented the confines of having to remain with a particular set of beliefs; he wanted to move on to greater freedom, to more expressive things in music to exploit the full creativity he knew was inside him. There are inevitably victims along the road to individual greatness. It was no doubt a dark day for Joan, but their separation was a new dawn for the world.
Well put. Joan was one of the ladders. Her heart is fundamentally so good that she couldn't see his motives. She was better off w/o him. I hope she realizes that now~ Like i said: the gods have always been with Joan.
Well stated (by the way, Dylan did accept the Nobel) except for the implication that Joan Baez is not an artist, like Bob Dylan. That she was more political than Bob does not negate her immense artistic qualities. She is an artist too.
@@sandymcgrew6420 he never was part of the “protest stuff” I guess you could say those songs weren’t from his heart, but just giving his audience what they wanted.
They were both very young; she had a career and he was just starting out; and each wanted a professional career, especially Joan who was not interested in starting a family when they were a couple. I have many sisters, half of whom wanted successful careers (including me); the remainder wanted to work professionally as well as have a family. Those sisters had a child after they had been married several years, with established careers before getting pregnant. Each of us was responsible for managing our fertility, leaving as close to zed as possible for an unwanted pregnancy.
I’m sure Joan is completely right ..Bob .. who I think is probably the best wordsmith of The 20th century.. was a self centred enigma , I just love all the videos of them Together .joan .. had the voice of an angle 🌞
I love what Joan gave me through her music; my mom had her first two albums. I now know 1,000 songs, half from before I was born. Her personal story is human and sweet, but her service in keeping music from the past alive is her greatest legacy; no one can shade that. Even the fact she ultimately, aesthetically, had a more operatic voice than folk: her peculiar genius.
Sadly, Dylan, Reed and Lennon, brilliant song writers to be honored, were also perhaps really reprehensible assholes in ways. Why should genius imply being nice in intimate relations?
I would not venture to calling Joan Baez voice operatic. I am unfamiliar with any part of Joan studying Bel Canto or any vocal techniques associated with singing opera. While I don't sing Opera, I have a trained voice which includes some classical vocal technique. I train every day singing vocal exercises even if I won't be performing. Singing is very much like being an athlete. Before singing even the simplest of songs, I have to "warm up" my voice to prepare all the muscles in my throat and the rest of my body to support my voice. I don't recall Joan Baez ever using a vocal coach, or turning down an opportunity to use her voice in a demonstration. It's necessary to rest your voice after a particularly long and demanding performance. Joan didn't do that. It's really sad that she didn't take better care of her voice. That's why she ultimately damaged her vocal chords and lost her voice.
I have no way of verifying this, but I had heard that one of the conflicts between them has to do with the fact that she wanted him to be much more active politically and he tried to explain that wasn’t what he did but that she was very insistent in him taking a more active role, hense his song “It ain’t me Babe” . If you read the lyrics, the explanation I was given makes a lot of sense.
@@zah936 yeah now I understand that song better He wrote it for Joan. She wanted to be in control of him and since he is extremely masculine, he was not able to surrender to her like a little boy. (which I am very happy about, cuz then maybe I still have a chance ha ha.) Women today have forgotten how to be as a woman and I think I am included. We are supposed to be just like men? It is confusing. The roles are messed up. Hey Bob wanna try one more time? I'm here lol I know you love me so why not go for it? oh but love is scary. maybe just keep it platonic Either way is ok with me. I will not be able to love anybody else though. I am also on the dark side of the road.
@@lavidadidaWhy should women play second fiddle to men? Your statement sounds anti-feminist. There’s nothing wrong with women being ambitious and fulfilling their dreams. If male ego is a problem, maybe it’s the wrong male…
They were both shining stars in my life, music-wise, and for the 1960's movements, even though I wasn't in America, did see her there in Oregon once, and more times in Canada, where I did see him once, but 20 years too late in my estimation. Still to be a teen in the 1960's was a decade-long musical memory on so very many scores!
Diamonds and Rust says her feelings and It Ain't me Babe expresses his. Joan was miles ahead of Dylan in every way but didn't have the self confidence to understand it. The first cut IS the deepest and I'm sorry she wasted her time on him.
You got it all backwards. Dylan became an Icon because he was the greatest songwriter of the 20th century. Joan Baez was a nice Folk singer who never wrote anything of note and faded away by the mid 60 ‘s when Rock Music overwhelmed Folk in popularity. Dylan as you can see in the film in 1965 switched to electric because he wanted to be part of the future that he could clearly see was coming.
No one was ahead of anyone. They were two brilliant young people who were lucky to find one another when they did. Joan's wonderful double LP of Bob's songs, Any Day Now, should be in every collection. It was released in 1968, after he married Sarah. Look at the song selection. That probably tells us how she felt about Bob.
@@user-sv1gh2mr4n We dont REALLY know what happened. Besides we all make mistakes/have regrets and shouldn't judge. You cant say Bob never truly loved any woman, only HE knows.
Another problem with the relationship was that Joan was an activist and Bob wasn’t. He wrote a lot of ‘political’ songs and song at MLKjr’s Washington DC but later stopped doing those events.
@@kcgrieser4629 I’m sure the relationship was symbiotic at the least. Dylan fell like an asteroid to the earth from the land of geniuses of a remarkable level. When I think of a genius who was here to make his mark with or without “help” I think of Bob Dylan and Rudolph Nureyev. These were geniuses which mortals would never really understand. Maybe Joan helped Bob in a small way - a facilitator who perhaps had his name out there a little sooner - and she was brilliant in her own right. Dylan would have become Dylan with or without Joan.
Don't Agree. If she was really great, or in love, she would have understood and let him go to his life's mission. How do you know if some one truly loves you Answer: you let them fly away and see if they come back Notice behind the victim tinge and the noble cause was a person who wanted another's life to go the way she wanted. Why blame Dylan for seeing that would not work? Why assign more nobility to her than him? We know neither of them at all. We know the picture she has painted
I think he wasn't a great guy. He might have been a musical genius, a poet laureate for his generation, but as a man, he appeared arrogant and mean. I think hewanted a subservient woman, one he could control. Both Joan and Suze Rotolo were too independent for him. I think he even had issues with his first wife.
@virgoddess3456 it was a.different time. A.lot of big stars rock and otherwise didn't see women as their equals eg.Lennon's treatment of Cynthia, Jimmy P age and his 13 year old girlfriend,the way Sonny tried to financially bankrupt Cher. Of course today we have Diddy and other creeps. The beat goes on..
@@ChristinaMcLain Nothing has changed; not for the better, anyway. Whatever the time or place, we’re better off alone than to be treated that way. Women need to insist on respect. It’s the ones who don’t that make it harder for all of us.
You said it ALL, just the way it happened. People tend to sugar coat or minimize issues. I found yer comments and concur and believe you said it as it WAS. 😎🤗🌟🙈🙉🙊👍🏻☮️🎶
As was pointed out in Keirsey Temperament Theory, Joan Baez has the Idealist Temperament, while Bob Dylan has that of an Artisan. These temperaments often clash.
He used Baez (and an ailing Woody Guthrie) to get a leg-up in the Folk Music community - and then Dylan caught the wave of electric Pop Rock music that the Beatles and the British Music Invasion helped bring about in 1965 (and so long to Pete Seeger, who also helped Dylan). I don't deny that Bob Dylan created some truly remarkable and moving songs that helped define an Era; but in his personal life, he had feet of clay -as we all do, I suppose- and when all's said and done, I mostly like to hear his early folk-inspired work that Joan Baez helped to 'midwife.'
Dylan's feet were off of the ground on the run towards who ever he fancied and caught his attention. A two tire wheeling machine had supposedly stopped his 🏃♂️ for awhile 😢
They were both strong individualists. Relationships take compromise, understanding, and work. Great artists though. Artistic people often march to their own drummer.
A collaboration like none other, and from a time that produced the kind of musical genius that will never be equaled in whatever time the human race has left. It seemed it would only get stronger and better; instead it deteriorated into the ear-assaulting slop we have today. If you want to hear good music still, try Memphis in May Blues Festival. I did, twice, and I'm so glad of it.
Very one sided. The humbling speech Bob Dylan wrote and was read at the Noble Peace Prize was absolutely brilliant. Definitely not a speech written by a person who was critical of receiving such a high honour.
I saw Dylan on a small stage in Upstate New York, about 35 yrs ago. He was completely unintelligible even though i actually knew the words, and it was a small theater, great seats. It was painful to watch. I felt oddly embarrassed for him, and left half way through. I had heard rumors of this, but i still bought the tickets..Oh well. I have no idea how common this was...
@diannshoemaker6419 Wow, Diann, that's interesting. I saw him a few months ago in Louisville and loved it. I knew ahead of time he'd be behind the piano the whole concert, didn't talk between songs. I feel I got what I came for, the sound and music were great. We are all so different!
I saw Bob Dylan in 1970 with the Band in Chicago and I only really recall the lighters we all lit to signify the moment. and then in Vancouver in about 2005 during which his music and the words were unintelligible. He was a gift to our consciousness but probably, as is said in the song, legends..not easy to be with at home. She was a musical genius who also as has been noted, did it for the cause, while Bob did it for the fame..and he is still doing it.
@jeanjearman2025 So you're referring to early 1990. Dylan has tried to stay in the vanguard of his chosen art forms, and post-modern was in vogue (Pinchon, DFW, etc.) in literature, painting & music at the time, which also led to deconstruction of art forms. I've heard it said (not my idea) that Dylan's musical delivery at the time was his attempt to interpret his earlier/ popular works in a contemporary, deconstructed context. It's just a thought, a mere possibility 🤔...
The commentary says "IN the early 1960s, things went downhil for both Bob and Joan privately and proffessionally... when did Bob Dylans career go bad....NEVER.
I think you’ll find the freedom warrior was Joan Baez, not Bob Dylan. With regard to his his private life, it’s exactly that - his private life. You haven’t the faintest idea of what goes on behind another family’s closed doors in the first place. Should we label everyone who has had a relationship breakdown a ‘tyrant’ now, just because some newspaper, website or television station has run a negative story about them? In addition to that, we don’t know what some anonymous joe airing their own peculiar lack of knowledge and flowery vernacular on the Internet is like in their own home in this respect either, and so such individuals might not be best qualified to make these kind of sweeping statements. You haven’t the slightest idea of what you’re talking about.
And what about her husband. In 1968, Baez married the activist David Harris; had a son, Gabriel, in 1969, while Harris was serving twenty months in federal prison for refusing to report for military duty. They divorced in 1973. I vividly remember her mentioning him at every concert she gave during that time and then some stuff afterward about being a lesbian after they had divorced. True, not true? I don't know but I think they may have both ridden coattails in their time. At least Bob is more private about his past. (At least as far as I know.) Bob had Patti Smith accept that prize for him. I take this video with a grain of salt.
A grain of salt? Whilst I accept that it’s just a metaphor, I would use the term 🪓 job myself. There’s so many errors and half truths here that I can’t even be bothered to engage because he either doesn’t know what he is talking about, or he does and is being deliberately facetious (I suspect the latter to be true). He hasn’t told us anything we don’t already know, and what we do know is what he has told us isn’t accurate. And yet he’s making a living, posting - inaccurately - about other peoples careers. A body that lives off of another host body, without providing any benefit to that host is a parasite. The entertainment industry is full of them.
All the folkies who loved Bob Dylan the most during this era really never understood Bob. As he said in his 1965 interview, he was nothing but “a song and dance man.” The persona the public foisted on Bob bemused him because he never sought to be categorized. He couldn’t have become a Nobel Winning genius if he hadn’t stayed true to who he was and what he wanted to produce during his lifetime. Those early champions, like your first love, are important but they are just springboards to greatness and it’s a pity that those booster rockets cannot go along for the climbing of the heights to genius. If it had worked out, great. But it’s not Dylan’s fault that it didn’t.
Good God. Have you ever hearf of having a private life where your r every word. Thought And feeling isnt available tp the world for discussipn They are 2 amaziing artists that fell on and out of love when ypung. .let it alone. Who are we to have am opinion....we dpnt lmow them How would you like your every move 2 nd giessef and analized. We wonder why they are so elusive. Why dont we leave their private lives alone and put that energu imto our owm lives. .
I hung out with Joan one night at Oven Auditorium We talked about Bob She was extremely emotional about him. I wrote a song about it for whatever that's worth
Let's be humans. Nothing nor nobody is perfect. Joan Baez must of seen Bob Dylan's honest and beautiful qualities along the way. I'm sure Bob Dylan's beatifulness was so hard to understand. I love Joan for her respect for one of the most gifted musicians. Joan, God is perfect. Let's love Bobby forever. Yes, he's different, but who are we?? ❤❤
I have noticed when Joan Baez speaks of Bob Dylan she praises his artistry ( to do otherwise would be a losing game) but includes personal insults. Her bitterness is always clear just below the surface. And bitter over what? His enduring success? The fact that after his gave her great songs he didn't kiss her feet? I'm sorry, Joan. Get over it finally
Bob Dylan is and was a Giant among Giants in his field of music. He represented a man deeply respected. However, I can't phantom the idea that he approved of this newly released movie. His relationship with women in this movie was quite unsettling. A man with his vision and respect the movie should have focused on the good and that he had a son that is close to him. I was extremely disappointed with this movie and would NEVER watch it again for as long as I live. My memories of him is more than sufficient to respect and cherish all that he achieved in his lifetime 😢
Bob broke Joan's heart? Bob broke lots of hearts, and it wasn't just the women. He'd use people to further his career and then move on. I don't judge him for his personal behavior. The private lives of great artists don't much interest me, because that part of their lives aren't much different than what "ordinary" people go through in relationships and in other ways. It's their art that separates them from ordinary mortals who will never produce great art, art that will live on through the ages, be it in music, books, film, painting, etc.
All I can say is he was young and immature if this is true. Men take a while to mature and relationships are difficult at times, especially at a young age. But let’s give credit where it’s due. His art is immense and has brought many much happiness and sympatico.
This is the problem with mixing profession with romance. Just because you got someone a job or turned them famous or slept with them doesn't mean they owe you anything in return other than a Thank You.
@@rosieE121 Society including Feminists decided that sex isn't what consummates a relationship even though God's Laws do. Maybe Joan thought it did and Bob did not. Usually a ring around the finger and walking down the aisle is needed before they own you something.
I think Joan loved Dylan much more. I also think she saw him as a great opportunity to bolster her very respectable career. I imagine she was a bit manipulative and used Bob’s innocence (in the music world) to her benefit. Dylan was known as a ladies man (even from a young age - perhaps his gangling body and sweet face, blue eyes and rumpled persona attracted many women. Joan was the High Priestess when she took Dylan under her wing. And he shocked the shit out of her when he decided it was time for him to fulfill his own destiny and to not continue in Joan’s folk balladeer/ protest counterculture. He also fell in deep love with Suze Rotolo which was a huge problem for Joan and Suze’s older sister. Thank goodness Dylan was strong enough and had enough self respect when it was time to leave Joan. Whenever you help someone it’s a mistake to think you own them. It never works out.
I always thought they were an odd pairing, and I'm a fan of both of them. Musically, they were both folksingers, but their styles were like polar opposites. Joan had an impeccable finger picking guitar style. And her voice was so clear and beautiful, you would think that she was an elf queen from Tolkien's Middle Earth. Bob's guitar style was sloppy and haphazard, and his singing was harsh and strained. Don't get me wrong, it worked for what he was trying to do. To sing gritty songs about actual reality, but with a beatnik poetic style. I guess opposites attract.
Often musical collaborations break up over “creative differences” eg S & G and Bob was especially “mercurial” as they say. A different Bob seems to wake up every day. Hard to take.
So to cut a long story short,Bob used her and then threw her away for a newer model,kinda like what he did with his acoustic.No doubt a man of great conscience.
I have found that love relationships are often screwed up with one calling the shots and the other trying to please. As now a 74-year-old man I've made peace with this. About a decade ago I vowed to myself to stay single for the rest of my life. It's just been easier as i was always the pleaser, to avoid kidding myself with any romantic thoughts that never worked out.
Dear stranger, when let go of your expectations and you let go of the upset. Chose to understand what is behind your people pleasing. That bucket cannot be filled by others. Day 1 of 2025.... choose love
Some things are misrepresented here, for example, Joan Baez calling their relationship "demoralizing." If you watch the Joan Baez biography, A Loud Noise, it was him breaking things off abruptly with her that left her feeling demoralized. Makes me wonder what else they got wrong here!?
Whatever happened they were beautiful together, there are photos of Bob with her family so they were involved for sure. It would have been nice for them to get back together later on…he married that back up singer, such a weird match.
6:55. Who else sees the strong similarities between Bob and Joan with latest love interest Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez!?! And Selena is half Mexican too!! Bob settling for that model is so similar to Justin settling for model Hailey Baldwin because Justin also knew he could also control her and he knew Selena would NEVER put up with it!!
Simply evident, was that Joan Baez was heads-and-shoulders above Bod Dylan--proof that the gods were with her. I honestly believe that no one is above someone else but that Joan was being watched over!😇 She's actually luckier than she's willing to admit!😂 She knows that!💥
Arrogance is the weapon of the incompetent and poorly trained. Bob Dylan was and is cocky and poorly educated. The Nobel Prize should and would have been on Joan's merit and never his. Joan Baez had and has everything, including a special beauty. When my children asked me what those 60s/70s were like, I just made them listen to Joan Baez. Even today I get goosebumps when I hear it and I change immediately the song if Bob is singing. He was always out of tune. What a third-rate musician, but like so many others he made a name for himself, without ever deserving it. I'm a classical musician with a long career, and believe me, I know what i'm saying. Love is something strange
1965, Dylan’s band played in an old building on Vancouver’s PNE grounds. Dylan, pretending to be drunk and queer, never acknowledged his audience. The show proved to be utterly boring. His band, expressing disgust, couldn’t get him to come to his senses. We were working class teenagers who had worked and saved our money in order to attend this concert. We walked home in silence. I vowed I’d never allow Dylan to disrespect me again.
Joan was an early supporter of Bob. She was a good performer, but she was not the creative force and songwriter, superstar that Bob became. How could she expect equal billing and to be guaranteed duets together. Professional competition or jealousy, on her part. Bob too can be ungracious about others artists songs, denigrating , Youngs Heart of Gold, and Lennons Norwegian Wood as imitating his style, that seems petty jealousy.
He split with Joan by summer ‘64 . Do the research to find that out . He had a fling with Joan after he split with Suze . Wouldn’t of even been a year 😁.
I too was shocked by Bob not letting Joan sing in England, as documented in Don’t Look Back, but I eventually realized she was too sweet and he was a gruff, one-man ban conquering a continent (and right for making that choice).
As I watch the videos and the documentaries and the latest movie "A complete unkown," it seems obvious to me how Bob benefitted from patriarchy and sexism. Of course I don't know either of them personally, so maybe this isn't fair to Bob, but he seems very comfortable to push her into the background while he takes front and center stage. Maybe he couldn't handle someone to match him. They were different musically, but she could sure hold her own! And Joan too grew up in the patriarchal society of the time and maybe let herself be pushed into the background. The way she looks at him, the love and passion just never seems to be reciprocated by him. It breaks my heart for her as I watch original footage. I would love for them to have a reunion! maybe it would be more for us than for them, but so much has happened since their 20s. What I would give for him to return the look of love that she always seems to shine on him. Does he have the capacity?
Some young male singers don't always think of other people. It's just what it is. They're trying to make it and believe they have gifts. There's a lot of entitlement in them. I'm sure that Bob Dylan had those types of issues, but they helped him get on the map in big ways.
Always a bad idea....a creative genius cannot nor should be confined. Confined people work in a cage with a name plate on their desk and a retirement plan....they don't write legendary music 🎶🎶
Classic vulnerable narcissist, some narcissists have low self esteem and they both need people to tell them they are great while they are certain they aren't worthy of any of it. It's why being in the limelight is something he can't endure. Bob could never love anybody because Bob couldn't allow him to love himself. Bob detested Bob. All the little things he says while taking the blame came out of serious time on psychiatrists couches. So much inner conflict. IMHO.
Those early b&w scenes brought me back to the time when Joan brought Bob on stage and did, in fact, introduce him to the 'folk scene'. I was there in Newport in 1963 when she did, and they performed together and also at the daily workshops. In 64 he was the headliner, and 65 was all his...as people still talk about it. The stories aren't all true about the booing. I had gone to see Joan at a solo show in 63-64 I think it was...I was a very young teen...and walked to the front of the stage as she was warming up before the show wanting to ask for her autograph... maybe just say hello...but I was so awestruck by her beauty and presence, that I just went back to my seat!! Those were very great times. Indeed.
Were you at Newport in 1965?
Ty for sharing!!!
SAME ! In Houston,saw Bob Dylan. I stood next to him. Said nothing
Struck dumb
@@tmac8892 yes I was
I live in RI and went to many of the festivals back in the day. The 69 Jazz festival was like Woodstock...a month before it!!
Janis in 68...
In 78 I worked for a caterer friend of mine doing concessions and catering to the performers. Good times.
Just because something doesn't last forever, doesn't mean it wasn't meant to be...
They did not go downhill professionally in the early 1960s! This false statement puts into question the rest of your claims.
Which is exactly why, after hearing those words, I didn't even bother wasting my time listening to the rest of it! There are plenty of other more accurately researched Dylan/Baez pieces to be found all over TH-cam!
Let's not forget that Dylan takes pride in having made a deal with "the Big One (a.k.a.the Devil)😈, in order to become famous and successful! So, that's why Baez talks about "nightmares"! It sounds outlandish, I know, but still...
Would mid-sixties satisfy you? They'd broken up by mid to late 1964 and he married a pregnant Sara in 1965. What's your beef?
@@Miltiadis-h7v I thought Dylan said that he made a deal with the Big Chief - meaning God. Not the devil. Why you gotta go there?
@@thewillowtree1127 dear friend, he is not the only celebrity to have done such a thing AND bragged about it! Having watched a documentary about the Evil one and his connection to our world, during a seminary, I can tell that this is the bitter truth. From then on, it's up to you to believe it or not! Greetings!
Joan has always been a beautiful woman and is still a Knockout.....Thanks Ron
Very true and such a classy individual. Imagine dating Dylan and Steve Jobs in their heydays....
Just saw A Complete Unknown movie. Loved it. I appreciate both their talents and stories. Glad they were alive and shared their talent with so many. Peace.
There was never any chance they would stay together, or even have anything like an equal relationship when they were a couple.
They were fundamentally different. For Bob, the important things were career and his music; he wasn't particularly interested in politics, even back then. He later said that he started writing protest songs in Greenwich Village in the early 60s simply "because that's what people wanted to hear back then", and he wanted to hone his craft and make a name for himself.
Joan on the other hand, was seriously interested in and motivated by politics. Whereas Bob initially used political songs to get famous, Joan used her fame to communicate political messages; Bob was an artist, Joan a platform for her beliefs. She believed in "the cause" in itself, whereas Bob didn't. She was a group person; Bob the ultimate individualist.
Joan stayed in politics and protest, but Bob quickly grew impatient with all that stuff, resented the confines of having to remain with a particular set of beliefs; he wanted to move on to greater freedom, to more expressive things in music to exploit the full creativity he knew was inside him.
There are inevitably victims along the road to individual greatness. It was no doubt a dark day for Joan, but their separation was a new dawn for the world.
That is insightful and well said.
Well put. Joan was one of the ladders. Her heart is fundamentally so good that she couldn't see his motives. She was better off w/o him. I hope she realizes that now~ Like i said: the gods have always been with Joan.
你可以這樣描述Dylan的，很多書都是這樣寫他的故事；的而且確，Joan熱衷於政治，而Bob只想做個歌手及詩人，甚至是搖滾樂的啟蒙詩人歌手，所以他們分手是意料中事。不過，Joan寫了首Diamond And Rust真是情感真摰的作品，為她的感情作了註釋，明白了她的感受。
Well stated (by the way, Dylan did accept the Nobel) except for the implication that Joan Baez is not an artist, like Bob Dylan. That she was more political than Bob does not negate her immense artistic qualities. She is an artist too.
Oh yes! Joan is sooo good that she couldn't see his motives! Who would you rather be in this lifetime..?? She's a Star!!! No doubt!🌠
'Diamonds and Rust' says it all.
Definitely her best song
@@seanohare5488 it is an outstanding song
I have a hard time listening to Joan Baez singing “Diamons and Rust”. I become too sad when I hear her words.
In a live concert I have on my DVR, she ends with, “And if you’re offering me diamonds and rust, I’ll take the Grammy.”
@@StephanieGranthamTry Judas Priest's cover
He was too blind to see she was the best thing that could have ever came into his life. She loved him dearly. She is an icon... Always will be. ❤
He was walking away from the protest stuff, he was exploring, doing drugs and on a different path. It happens all the time.
@@sandymcgrew6420 he never was part of the “protest stuff” I guess you could say those songs weren’t from his heart, but just giving his audience what they wanted.
He didn't want to Save the World, fly to endless protests, he knew better, & he fell head over heels with Sarah.
@ in other words, he didn’t give a shit about the things he wrote about. Give the customer what they wanted was his motto.
They were both very young; she had a career and he was just starting out; and each wanted a professional career, especially Joan who was not interested in starting a family when they were a couple. I have many sisters, half of whom wanted successful careers (including me); the remainder wanted to work professionally as well as have a family. Those sisters had a child after they had been married several years, with established careers before getting pregnant. Each of us was responsible for managing our fertility, leaving as close to zed as possible for an unwanted pregnancy.
Some things, in relationships are private. They should remain private.
Relationships are difficult + most of us have known heartbreak.
Trying to apportion blame is pointless, especially so many years later.
@DavidStewart-v5e
Peace, man.
Comforting words Thank you.
Sometimes blame is important especially with Heterosexual males. Otherwise they never learn.💙
I’m sure Joan is completely right ..Bob .. who I think is probably the best wordsmith of
The 20th century.. was a self centred enigma , I just love all the videos of them
Together .joan .. had the voice of an angle 🌞
@ 50 degree 🌞
Angel.
45 or 90?
I love what Joan gave me through her music; my mom had her first two albums. I now know 1,000 songs, half from before I was born. Her personal story is human and sweet, but her service in keeping music from the past alive is her greatest legacy; no one can shade that. Even the fact she ultimately, aesthetically, had a more operatic voice than folk: her peculiar genius.
Sadly, Dylan, Reed and Lennon, brilliant song writers to be honored, were also perhaps really reprehensible assholes in ways. Why should genius imply being nice in intimate relations?
I would not venture to calling Joan Baez voice operatic. I am unfamiliar with any part of Joan studying Bel Canto or any vocal techniques associated with singing opera.
While I don't sing Opera, I have a trained voice which includes some classical vocal technique. I train every day singing vocal exercises even if I won't be performing. Singing is very much like being an athlete. Before singing even the simplest of songs, I have to "warm up" my voice to prepare all the muscles in my throat and the rest of my body to support my voice.
I don't recall Joan Baez ever using a vocal coach, or turning down an opportunity to use her voice in a demonstration. It's necessary to rest your voice after a particularly long and demanding performance. Joan didn't do that. It's really sad that she didn't take better care of her voice. That's why she ultimately damaged her vocal chords and lost her voice.
@@markzucker8769 Because people idolize them and these stars actively try to make that happen
She does have a high quality voice .
I have no way of verifying this, but I had heard that one of the conflicts between them has to do with the fact that she wanted him to be much more active politically and he tried to explain that wasn’t what he did but that she was very insistent in him taking a more active role, hense his song “It ain’t me Babe” . If you read the lyrics, the explanation I was given makes a lot of sense.
Sad
@@zah936 yeah now I understand that song better He wrote it for Joan. She wanted to be in control of him and since he is extremely masculine, he was not able to surrender to her like a little boy. (which I am very happy about, cuz then maybe I still have a chance ha ha.) Women today have forgotten how to be as a woman and I think I am included. We are supposed to be just like men? It is confusing. The roles are messed up. Hey Bob wanna try one more time? I'm here lol I know you love me so why not go for it? oh but love is scary. maybe just keep it platonic Either way is ok with me. I will not be able to love anybody else though. I am also on the dark side of the road.
Exactly
@@lavidadidaWhy should women play second fiddle to men? Your statement sounds anti-feminist. There’s nothing wrong with women being ambitious and fulfilling their dreams. If male ego is a problem, maybe it’s the wrong male…
I believe maybe she was just a little jealous of his songwriting abilities and his fame. When they sing together it was beautiful.
They were both shining stars in my life, music-wise, and for the 1960's movements, even though I wasn't in America, did see her there in Oregon once, and more times in Canada, where I did see him once, but 20 years too late in my estimation. Still to be a teen in the 1960's was a decade-long musical memory on so very many scores!
I sort of remember the 60s. 🙏🏼
Diamonds and Rust says her feelings and It Ain't me Babe expresses his. Joan was miles ahead of Dylan in every way but didn't have the self confidence to understand it. The first cut IS the deepest and I'm sorry she wasted her time on him.
You got it all backwards. Dylan became an Icon because he was the greatest songwriter of the 20th century. Joan Baez was a nice Folk singer who never wrote anything of note and faded away by the mid 60 ‘s when Rock Music overwhelmed Folk in popularity. Dylan as you can see in the film in 1965 switched to electric because he wanted to be part of the future that he could clearly see was coming.
No one was ahead of anyone. They were two brilliant young people who were lucky to find one another when they did. Joan's wonderful double LP of Bob's songs, Any Day Now, should be in every collection. It was released in 1968, after he married Sarah. Look at the song selection. That probably tells us how she felt about Bob.
Why do you fail to mention Suze Rotolo whom Bob was in love with at the time he was involved with Joan Baez ? I don’t think he EVER loved Joan Baez .
Bob never truly loved any woman, not even Suze Rotolo. Bob had his preborn baby of Suze aborted/murdered.
@@user-sv1gh2mr4n We dont REALLY know what happened. Besides we all make mistakes/have regrets and shouldn't judge. You cant say Bob never truly loved any woman, only HE knows.
Baez helped launch Dylan's career. He loved that.
@@marieholland8868😂
@@marieholland8868😂
Winds of change blew them apart and the answer is blowing in the wind.
And it was a simple twist of fate.
Could you please make a video of a perfect couple that lives a perfect life!! Thanks beforehand. I look forward to that with great anticipation.
Thank you for this excellent and wise comment.
I am glad you think so. I just have a difficult time to understand why this has to be discussed over and over again, when it happened so long ago?
When I see what "heros" Joan is having today, I get scared.
Baez needs to get over it. Dylan did what he felt he needed to do for his own career. Im glad he did.
@@doopil I agree
Wack job
Another problem with the relationship was that Joan was an activist and Bob wasn’t. He wrote a lot of ‘political’ songs and song at MLKjr’s Washington DC but later stopped doing those events.
Dylan should have kissed Baez feet. A remarkable woman. Talent. Sheer through and through
@@kcgrieser4629 I’m sure the relationship was symbiotic at the least. Dylan fell like an asteroid to the earth from the land of geniuses of a remarkable level. When I think of a genius who was here to make his mark with or without “help” I think of Bob Dylan and Rudolph Nureyev. These were geniuses which mortals would never really understand. Maybe Joan helped Bob in a small way - a facilitator who perhaps had his name out there a little sooner - and she was brilliant in her own right. Dylan would have become Dylan with or without Joan.
Don't Agree. If she was really great, or in love, she would have understood and let him go to his life's mission.
How do you know if some one truly loves you
Answer: you let them fly away and see if they come back
Notice behind the victim tinge and the noble cause was a person who wanted another's life to go the way she wanted.
Why blame Dylan for seeing that would not work?
Why assign more nobility to her than him? We know neither of them at all. We know the picture she has painted
I think he wasn't a great guy. He might have been a musical genius, a poet laureate for his generation, but as a man, he appeared arrogant and mean. I think hewanted a subservient woman, one he could control.
Both Joan and Suze Rotolo were too independent for him. I think he even had issues with his first wife.
I don't think he even had a good singing voice
Absolutely true.
Just listen to his nasty lyrics. “How does it feel?” I think his women had a death wish.
@virgoddess3456 it was a.different time. A.lot of big stars rock and otherwise didn't see women as their equals eg.Lennon's treatment of Cynthia, Jimmy P age and his 13 year old girlfriend,the way Sonny tried to financially bankrupt Cher. Of course today we have Diddy and other creeps. The beat goes on..
@@ChristinaMcLain Nothing has changed; not for the better, anyway. Whatever the time or place, we’re better off alone than to be treated that way. Women need to insist on respect. It’s the ones who don’t that make it harder for all of us.
I have today that Joan BAEZ has aged so gracefully that my mind is racing. wow how pretty.
卜戴倫就是這樣的人，年少輕狂，甚有才華，是詩人也是歌手，但和他談戀愛就簡直是個災難，你只能臣服於他，或離開他遠走高飛，過你的新生活；連元配Sara都難以忍受，離他遠去，就知道有才華的人實在難以相處。我們還是聽他的歌或欣賞他的詩好了！
You said it ALL, just the way it happened. People tend to sugar coat or minimize issues. I found yer comments and concur and believe you said it as it WAS. 😎🤗🌟🙈🙉🙊👍🏻☮️🎶
I always wished they would eventually be back together.
As was pointed out in Keirsey Temperament Theory, Joan Baez has the Idealist Temperament, while Bob Dylan has that of an Artisan. These temperaments often clash.
This is not news. Diamonds and Rust.
A beautiful couple of the sixties, but Bob is a free man.
Can't help but feeling Dylan was a young man on the make. When Joan served her purpose and he became well known he then moved on.
@@algie-t2w yes
that's exactly what happened
Wow .... ignorant statement
He used Baez (and an ailing Woody Guthrie) to get a leg-up in the Folk Music community - and then Dylan caught the wave of electric Pop Rock music that the Beatles and the British Music Invasion helped bring about in 1965 (and so long to Pete Seeger, who also helped Dylan). I don't deny that Bob Dylan created some truly remarkable and moving songs that helped define an Era; but in his personal life, he had feet of clay -as we all do, I suppose- and when all's said and done, I mostly like to hear his early folk-inspired work that Joan Baez helped to 'midwife.'
Baez was actually trying to ride Bobs coattails. If he hadn’t ditched her she would have been like Yoko was to,John Lennon.
And who hasn't made career progress by getting help from others....it's not unreasonable, unkind or unprofessional.
Dylan's feet were off of the ground on the run towards who ever he fancied and caught his attention. A two tire wheeling machine had supposedly stopped his 🏃♂️ for awhile 😢
Yea right Dylan would be unknown without joan. Lol.
He didn't use them. He outgrew them.
They were both strong individualists. Relationships take compromise, understanding, and work. Great artists though. Artistic people often march to their own drummer.
A collaboration like none other, and from a time that produced the kind of musical genius that will never be equaled in whatever time the human race has left. It seemed it would only get stronger and better; instead it deteriorated into the ear-assaulting slop we have today. If you want to hear good music still, try Memphis in May Blues Festival. I did, twice, and I'm so glad of it.
Very one sided. The humbling speech Bob Dylan wrote and was read at the Noble Peace Prize was absolutely brilliant. Definitely not a speech written by a person who was critical of receiving such a high honour.
you mean the speech he plagarized?🤣
I saw Dylan on a small stage in Upstate New York, about 35 yrs ago. He was completely unintelligible even though i actually knew the words, and it was a small theater, great seats. It was painful to watch. I felt oddly embarrassed for him, and left half way through. I had heard rumors of this, but i still bought the tickets..Oh well. I have no idea how common this was...
He has written some great songs, but I could never understand anything he sang.
@diannshoemaker6419 Wow, Diann, that's interesting. I saw him a few months ago in Louisville and loved it. I knew ahead of time he'd be behind the piano the whole concert, didn't talk between songs. I feel I got what I came for, the sound and music were great. We are all so different!
@@meninagreen5704 I think 35 yrs. ago Bob was still drinking.
I saw Bob Dylan in 1970 with the Band in Chicago and I only really recall the lighters we all lit to signify the moment. and then in Vancouver in about 2005 during which his music and the words were unintelligible. He was a gift to our consciousness but probably, as is said in the song, legends..not easy to be with at home. She was a musical genius who also as has been noted, did it for the cause, while Bob did it for the fame..and he is still doing it.
@jeanjearman2025
So you're referring to early 1990. Dylan has tried to stay in the vanguard of his chosen art forms, and post-modern was in vogue (Pinchon, DFW, etc.) in literature, painting & music at the time, which also led to deconstruction of art forms.
I've heard it said (not my idea) that Dylan's musical delivery at the time was his attempt to interpret his earlier/ popular works in a contemporary, deconstructed context. It's just a thought, a mere possibility 🤔...
They are both musical geniuses.
The commentary says "IN the early 1960s, things went downhil for both Bob and Joan privately and proffessionally... when did Bob Dylans career go bad....NEVER.
Their partnership went bad, not individually .
They did not go downhill. Their relationship went downhill
Bob Dylan - another guy protesting and singing about freedom on stage while in his private life being somewhat of a tyrant.
You don't understand Dylan.
I think you’ll find the freedom warrior was Joan Baez, not Bob Dylan.
With regard to his his private life, it’s exactly that - his private life. You haven’t the faintest idea of what goes on behind another family’s closed doors in the first place. Should we label everyone who has had a relationship breakdown a ‘tyrant’ now, just because some newspaper, website or television station has run a negative story about them?
In addition to that, we don’t know what some anonymous joe airing their own peculiar lack of knowledge and flowery vernacular on the Internet is like in their own home in this respect either, and so such individuals might not be best qualified to make these kind of sweeping statements. You haven’t the slightest idea of what you’re talking about.
@@sandymcgrew6420 I can't believe what some people say...lol
I agree. It was a one-sided love. Joan was head-over-heals in love with Bob.
Joan Baez.... beautiful song bird!
A wonderful way to describe her.
While I love a lot of Dylan's songs I suspect he's a total AH in his day-to-day. Not that I know I just think he emotes that vibe.
Thats not what his own children or associates have said so I doubt it's true
The rest of the Wilburys seemed happy enough to have him.
Well that is just an ass hole statement
And what about her husband. In 1968, Baez married the activist David Harris; had a son, Gabriel, in 1969, while Harris was serving twenty months in federal prison for refusing to report for military duty. They divorced in 1973. I vividly remember her mentioning him at every concert she gave during that time and then some stuff afterward about being a lesbian after they had divorced. True, not true? I don't know but I think they may have both ridden coattails in their time. At least Bob is more private about his past. (At least as far as I know.) Bob had Patti Smith accept that prize for him. I take this video with a grain of salt.
A grain of salt?
Whilst I accept that it’s just a metaphor, I would use the term 🪓 job myself. There’s so many errors and half truths here that I can’t even be bothered to engage because he either doesn’t know what he is talking about, or he does and is being deliberately facetious (I suspect the latter to be true).
He hasn’t told us anything we don’t already know, and what we do know is what he has told us isn’t accurate. And yet he’s making a living, posting - inaccurately - about other peoples careers. A body that lives off of another host body, without providing any benefit to that host is a parasite. The entertainment industry is full of them.
Great Photographs!!
All the folkies who loved Bob Dylan the most during this era really never understood Bob. As he said in his 1965 interview, he was nothing but “a song and dance man.” The persona the public foisted on Bob bemused him because he never sought to be categorized. He couldn’t have become a Nobel Winning genius if he hadn’t stayed true to who he was and what he wanted to produce during his lifetime. Those early champions, like your first love, are important but they are just springboards to greatness and it’s a pity that those booster rockets cannot go along for the climbing of the heights to genius. If it had worked out, great. But it’s not Dylan’s fault that it didn’t.
Love it, dig it mann....and you tied it up with a bow
Regardless, using people for our own benefit is a crime.
Being young at the time certainly made its impact.
It’s been on record for years Joan Baez said Bob Dylan made her feel used,
Especially when touring in Europe.
Good God. Have you ever hearf of having a private life where your r every word. Thought
And feeling isnt available tp the world for discussipn
They are 2 amaziing artists that fell on and out of love when ypung.
.let it alone. Who are we to have am opinion....we dpnt lmow them
How would you like your every move 2 nd giessef and analized. We wonder why they are so elusive. Why dont we leave their private lives alone and put that energu imto our owm lives.
.
I understood every single word ❤
I saw bob dylan late 90s early 2000 awesome concert great band with him! Not even sure what albums he played from but I enjoyed the music!
Joan kept on and on about bob because it bemafited her too most people get on and get over it but he was so famous she just didnt let go
He might have been her first love
Benefit.
She's a Capricorn, and he's a Gemini, and that combo is usually a recipe for a failed intimate relationship.
No such thing,Silly
@@scottmorrow9794 , as Isaac Newton said to a fellow scientist who couldn't understand his embrace of astrology: "I have studied it; you haven't."
I hung out with Joan one night at Oven Auditorium We talked about Bob She was extremely emotional about him. I wrote a song about it for whatever that's worth
@virtuefilms1… Send us the link to your song. Would like to hear it.
Let's be humans. Nothing nor nobody is perfect. Joan Baez must of seen Bob Dylan's honest and beautiful qualities along the way. I'm sure Bob Dylan's beatifulness was so hard to understand. I love Joan for her respect for one of the most gifted musicians. Joan, God is perfect. Let's love Bobby forever. Yes, he's different, but who are we?? ❤❤
Timothy Chalamet is too sweet a person to play Dylan.
Also way too pretty to be believed, but he still gave it his all, and produced a very interesting simulacrum.
Bob was a poet and extremely talented and would have made it anyway.
I have noticed when Joan Baez speaks of Bob Dylan she praises his artistry ( to do otherwise would be a losing game) but includes personal insults. Her bitterness is always clear just below the surface. And bitter over what? His enduring success? The fact that after his gave her great songs he didn't kiss her feet? I'm sorry, Joan. Get over it finally
Bob Dylan is and was a Giant among Giants in his field of music. He represented a man deeply respected. However, I can't phantom the idea that he approved of this newly released movie. His relationship with women in this movie was quite unsettling. A man with his vision and respect the movie should have focused on the good and that he had a son that is close to him. I was extremely disappointed with this movie and would NEVER watch it again for as long as I live. My memories of him is more than sufficient to respect and cherish all that he achieved in his lifetime 😢
I literally just saw the movie tonight and I thought it was an incredible depiction of Dylan, Baez and those tumultuous times.
She later called Bob the greatest plagiarist in music.
THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob broke Joan's heart? Bob broke lots of hearts, and it wasn't just the women. He'd use people to further his career and then move on. I don't judge him for his personal behavior. The private lives of great artists don't much interest me, because that part of their lives aren't much different than what "ordinary" people go through in relationships and in other ways. It's their art that separates them from ordinary mortals who will never produce great art, art that will live on through the ages, be it in music, books, film, painting, etc.
All I can say is he was young and immature if this is true. Men take a while to mature and relationships are difficult at times, especially at a young age. But let’s give credit where it’s due. His art is immense and has brought many much happiness and sympatico.
This is the problem with mixing profession with romance. Just because you got someone a job or turned them famous or slept with them doesn't mean they owe you anything in return other than a Thank You.
If you slept with them you owe each other something. It is not to be taken lightly.
@@rosieE121 Society including Feminists decided that sex isn't what consummates a relationship even though God's Laws do. Maybe Joan thought it did and Bob did not. Usually a ring around the finger and walking down the aisle is needed before they own you something.
I think Joan loved Dylan much more. I also think she saw him as a great opportunity to bolster her very respectable career. I imagine she was a bit manipulative and used Bob’s innocence (in the music world) to her benefit. Dylan was known as a ladies man (even from a young age - perhaps his gangling body and sweet face, blue eyes and rumpled persona attracted many women. Joan was the High Priestess when she took Dylan under her wing. And he shocked the shit out of her when he decided it was time for him to fulfill his own destiny and to not continue in Joan’s folk balladeer/ protest counterculture. He also fell in deep love with Suze Rotolo which was a huge problem for Joan and Suze’s older sister. Thank goodness Dylan was strong enough and had enough self respect when it was time to leave Joan. Whenever you help someone it’s a mistake to think you own them. It never works out.
I always thought they were an odd pairing, and I'm a fan of both of them. Musically, they were both folksingers, but their styles were like polar opposites. Joan had an impeccable finger picking guitar style. And her voice was so clear and beautiful, you would think that she was an elf queen from Tolkien's Middle Earth. Bob's guitar style was sloppy and haphazard, and his singing was harsh and strained. Don't get me wrong, it worked for what he was trying to do. To sing gritty songs about actual reality, but with a beatnik poetic style. I guess opposites attract.
Often musical collaborations break up over “creative differences” eg S & G and Bob was especially “mercurial” as they say. A different Bob seems to wake up every day. Hard to take.
So to cut a long story short,Bob used her and then threw her away for a newer model,kinda like what he did with his acoustic.No doubt a man of great conscience.
It's much more than that! I knew Bob.. Pete.. performed with Mimi, Joan.. and so many others.. Truth will be told down the road.. sad.. Roland Mousaa
I have found that love relationships are often screwed up with one calling the shots and the other trying to please. As now a 74-year-old man I've made peace with this. About a decade ago I vowed to myself to stay single for the rest of my life. It's just been easier as i was always the pleaser, to avoid kidding myself with any romantic thoughts that never worked out.
Dear stranger, when let go of your expectations and you let go of the upset. Chose to understand what is behind your people pleasing. That bucket cannot be filled by others. Day 1 of 2025.... choose love
Some things are misrepresented here, for example, Joan Baez calling their relationship "demoralizing." If you watch the Joan Baez biography, A Loud Noise, it was him breaking things off abruptly with her that left her feeling demoralized. Makes me wonder what else they got wrong here!?
Whatever happened they were beautiful together, there are photos of Bob with her family so they were involved for sure. It would have been nice for them to get back together later on…he married that back up singer, such a weird match.
There is no mention of his relationship with Mavis Staples either
6:55. Who else sees the strong similarities between Bob and Joan with latest love interest Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez!?! And Selena is half Mexican too!! Bob settling for that model is so similar to Justin settling for model Hailey Baldwin because Justin also knew he could also control her and he knew Selena would NEVER put up with it!!
Simply evident, was that Joan Baez was heads-and-shoulders above Bod Dylan--proof that the gods were with her. I honestly believe that no one is above someone else but that Joan was being watched over!😇 She's actually luckier than she's willing to admit!😂 She knows that!💥
Arrogance is the weapon of the incompetent and poorly trained.
Bob Dylan was and is cocky and poorly educated.
The Nobel Prize should and would have been on Joan's merit and never his.
Joan Baez had and has everything, including a special beauty.
When my children asked me what those 60s/70s were like, I just made them listen to Joan Baez.
Even today I get goosebumps when I hear it and I change immediately the song if Bob is singing. He was always out of tune.
What a third-rate musician, but like so many others he made a name for himself, without ever deserving it.
I'm a classical musician with a long career, and believe me, I know what i'm saying.
Love is something strange
1965, Dylan’s band played in an old building on Vancouver’s PNE grounds. Dylan, pretending to be drunk and queer, never acknowledged his audience. The show proved to be utterly boring. His band, expressing disgust, couldn’t get him to come to his senses. We were working class teenagers who had worked and saved our money in order to attend this concert. We walked home in silence. I vowed I’d never allow Dylan to disrespect me again.
Joan was an early supporter of Bob. She was a good performer, but she was not the creative force and songwriter, superstar that Bob became. How could she expect equal billing and to be guaranteed duets together. Professional competition or jealousy, on her part. Bob too can be ungracious about others artists songs, denigrating , Youngs Heart of Gold, and Lennons Norwegian Wood as imitating his style, that seems petty jealousy.
He split with Joan by summer ‘64 . Do the research to find that out . He had a fling with
Joan after he split with Suze . Wouldn’t of even been a year 😁.
I too was shocked by Bob not letting Joan sing in England, as documented in Don’t Look Back, but I eventually realized she was too sweet and he was a gruff, one-man ban conquering a continent (and right for making that choice).
As I watch the videos and the documentaries and the latest movie "A complete unkown," it seems obvious to me how Bob benefitted from patriarchy and sexism. Of course I don't know either of them personally, so maybe this isn't fair to Bob, but he seems very comfortable to push her into the background while he takes front and center stage. Maybe he couldn't handle someone to match him. They were different musically, but she could sure hold her own! And Joan too grew up in the patriarchal society of the time and maybe let herself be pushed into the background. The way she looks at him, the love and passion just never seems to be reciprocated by him. It breaks my heart for her as I watch original footage. I would love for them to have a reunion! maybe it would be more for us than for them, but so much has happened since their 20s. What I would give for him to return the look of love that she always seems to shine on him. Does he have the capacity?
Bob loved his wife, Sarah.
Some young male singers don't always think of other people. It's just what it is. They're trying to make it and believe they have gifts. There's a lot of entitlement in them. I'm sure that Bob Dylan had those types of issues, but they helped him get on the map in big ways.
I could never stand Baez, she always came off as pompous
her political views are crazy
"Diamond and rust" is a beautiful love story
Joan has a major crush on Bob & Bob moved on & Joan still missed him & I hear & see it in her voice. Bob is not a coupled artist- it ended
bob couldnt keep it up so she left him
She wanted to mold him into someone different than he was. Bad idea.
Always a bad idea....a creative genius cannot nor should be confined. Confined people work in a cage with a name plate on their desk and a retirement plan....they don't write legendary music 🎶🎶
Compatibility is the key
Either one connects or doesn't
Having a similar interest
Doesn't always work
Positive and negative
May connect better!
She wanted his soul
How very beautiful she is...she paid a great price for her love of him. A little tragedy~
It's all over now, baby Blue 💙
Ain't no honey without the sting ❤
one minute of this and I had enough...
Joan and her sister mimi were in dressing room for beatles last concert,also backstage with jimi at msg.
I've heard a lot about Dylan being narcissistic.
I can get that. He definitely has marched to the beat of a different drum & rarely have I seen him smile.
Classic vulnerable narcissist, some narcissists have low self esteem and they both need people to tell them they are great while they are certain they aren't worthy of any of it. It's why being in the limelight is something he can't endure. Bob could never love anybody because Bob couldn't allow him to love himself. Bob detested Bob. All the little things he says while taking the blame came out of serious time on psychiatrists couches. So much inner conflict. IMHO.
Bob loved women but not forever
❤️ 😍😘😘
What du you know when being so young..and in the lime light! He wasn't going/planning to make her happy that's for sure.
she sacrificed her connection to G-d for power and fame, and had nothing to offer a man.
She said that she has moved on, I don’t think so.
She probably was too good for him.
Omg!! They were the original STEVIE AND Lindsey!!
More like Justin and Selena!
Who's Joan baez ?
Joan was an emancipated woman ahead of her time, while Bob only wanted a woman to raise babies while waiting for him with a warm meal at home.🙃