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Divide & Conquer: Top 10 Shock Infantry
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2024
- The video contains a ranking of units from the Divide & Conquer submod. This ranking is based purely on the battle map and their stats: cost and replenishment were not a factor.
I do hope you enjoy! :)
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It's actually really nice that dwarves get the best shock infantry, considering they don't have cav except for mercs, it's actually really tidy and makes a ton of sense.
Except in practice they aren't the best, cause they're slow. This list wasn't about whose strike infantry best replaces cavalry because that would require to add movement speed into the equation.
Yeah I have PTSD from chasing snaga archers around the map during the ambushes at the start of the Khaza-dum campaign
only issue is that they are slow , which means they have to be very close to the action , i typicaly place them right behind the pikemen and once i see the enemy right in front of a unit of pikemen wavering or the enemy is actually breaking the pikemen apart i send in the firebeards to deal with them head on , hammer and anvil is boring and frankly the dwarves are too slow anyway
you know what they say, dwarves are natural sprinters.
(I think it would be so cool is dwarf infantry charge animation was actually quicker then most, woundt have much gameplay effect since you need to be close for units to do the animation anyways, but would be an absolute great flavor addition!)
If I were able to have more control over the engine, id love for dwarves initial run animation to be pretty quick, but then slows down after like a second. it would be pretty fun gameplay wise since you would fundemental have to play dwarves as defensive, but once you are in range, you can have deadly bursts of speed. no sending oht quick missle cav to harry opponents, but excellent shock infantry dedicated to just getting the flank of an already engaged unit.
It would be a dream come true if modders were able to alter the game's fundamental code in that way, actually update mechanics but keep everything good unchanged.
Iron Fist Hammers only have three charge?! I thought dwarves were natural sprinters. Very dangerous over short distance.
++
I’m buffing that charge bonus in my own files, it’s absurdly low
they really gotta buff it to like 5 or 6 at LEAST
In the future, you really should get someone to help you with the data collection on these. Because there was a variable you couldn't control due to the AI that significantly affects the damage done by melee units: formation width. The wider the unit width is, the more men will be in direct contact with the enemy and will do more dps. Your data was especially affected by unit width because it had a time limit. I mean, look at the Nazg-Hai at 21:12. Most of the unit is away from combat. It definitely impacted their kill count.
Yeah not to be pedantic, but really the minimum sample size to get any kind of meaningful result is 30. So you would have to run 30 if these tests and average those results rather than just 3.
Not to diminish the time you put in to doing this (I thank you for it), but with statistically significant tests I think we would've seen units like the Orc Avengers perform much better.
arshbs got to be a bit realistic though
@@paulusboskabouter7993 this is true
True
Galu: In 2nd place come the hammers of Gundabad!
Me: The hell, Who can out shock infantry the dwarves???
Galu: and at number 1 we have the Belleriand Honor Guard!
Me: Ah, dwarves out shock infantry other dwarves. I love it...
Lol
What faction gets the Belleriand honor guard?
@@danielhall6578 Ered Luin, and apparently they're pikes now and look way better
Mr. Hobo ahh I guess I have never played them much
@@danielhall6578 You're not alone on that front xD
6:44 that guy got yeeted lol
lol yea i saw that and it was funny. it sucked he didn't notice or mention it
hahahaa
I'm surprised snaga skirmishers didn't make it onto the list...
cheeky
, you mean snage stalker
*a
What about orc mountain hunters? Shock infantry with 0 or 1 armour....
They should be on the list. They are in the biggest shock when infantry hits them.
They're obviously not mentioned in the book and were a product of strictly the movies, but I think Isengard berserkers need a rework to reflect the fear and chaos they inflicted on enemy lines and also because they have such an iconic, savage look to them.
The honor guard of beleriand and hammers of gundabad may be on top, but the watchmen swordguard are the winners in our hearts
Isenmach axemen are probably the best budget option.
Yeah they wipe out the enemy and themselves in the process so you don’t have upkeep lol
@@eee546e Well this just means that as Dunland you should make sure you pit them against the enemy's toughest. When encountering them as an enemy, you can just swarm them with trash.
Galu: oh oops I dropped my pen
TH-cam: this is a perfect time for an ad
Don't they choose that on their own?
How could TH-cam possibly leave you on such a cliffhanger?? 😂
This top 10 series is so friggin good. You present the information well and it works as a nice showcase for the top units.
Please continue to do these cuz I didn’t even know shock infantry was a thing.
Enjoyed this! Nice crisp video with nice graphics, thanks Galu! Was surprised that the Beserkers of Isengard and Lossarnach Axemen didn't even get into the honourable mentions
So was I, the berserkers were actually quite poor really and the lossarnach only got 1 kill more on average than the Dale Swordmaster.
@ I was wondering what the result for the berserkers is, can you share it?
Fantastic video ! It's a great way to discover those units you usually only see late in the campaign ! I'd like to see more :D
I think you should do a top ten improved by armor, and just list your personal top ten units that change their looks based on upgrading their armor. Dalesmen, etc. I figure it would be a bit easier to put together than this list since you don't need to do any testing. Something to put out while you work on the next official top ten unit video.
You're getting better at these top 10's! Cheers
Always great to get back to a Top 10 video. Maybe top 10 pikemen, (standard) bodyguards, or spearmen for the next one.
There's something so very satisfying about watching infantry combat in Medieval 2. Above all other Total Wars.
It has better animations and combat feels more brute and realistic. The modern total wars if you look closely you will see stuff like a guy swing a sword and killing 5 dudes without the attack even conecting.
Well, I expected that. Dwarves should be the dominant power. Lacking severely because they are short, thus slow, and having less mass compared to other races, they have to attack before being attacked and use heavy weapons that suit their physical power: two handed axes and maces. Thus, in their tactics, the strike infantry is the most important part of their armies. The Dwarves really excell in this type of fight, so it is natural they take the best positions in every category of the strike infantry. I hope Galu makes other top-10 videos, I really like them. Have a nice evening!
17:22 A twirling guardian absolutely swacked one of the breelanders.
The same animation combo also happens at 21:14.
Well, i thought that Hammers of Gundabad would be first :D I have also expected Nazg Hai, to be at top ten.
Aha! We have been promised this for so long but it is finally here!
I'm actually okay with a dwarf unit which is this elite. In the first age, the dwarves were said to stand against glaurung when no others could. But Maybe their charge stat is a little OP considering they're not on a horse.
They are natural sprinters! very dangerous over short distances . . .
I'm guessing the extra charge comes from sheer force of mass and utter thiccness from the armour and the dwarves combined.
@@mrduck6720
Someone should teach the Iron Fists to slam with their amour into the enemy.
Really interesting stuff, Galu. After these tests, any thoughts on shock infantry overall? Or their relationship to mid-tier vs. low-tier vs. high tier? Clearly Watchmen Swordguard seem to impress you! Seems like the Dwarves are doing very well in general, but especially at clearing mid-tier units, because they are incredibly survivable, while the Isenmach Axemen might be more of a chaff-clearing shock infantry? Anyway, thanks for the hours of testing!
Given the rarity of Elven units, as well as replenishment, maybe the Maethyr i-thewair deserve some buffs, your not gonna have a ton of them and they are elves. Few things should be able to kill them in straight up melee.
Depending on the faction balance (and where the mod team want them) they could get an improved melee defence (which, together with melee attack, I always envision as showing how well a unit can fight), owing to the Sindar fondness for axes.
I’d at least make them as strong as the Kings Axes of Erebor tbh
I actually think its cool that dwarves excel at something and elves don't...like, elves already have one of the best cavs, best infantry and their archers are so good they need a separate top 5 list...so I think its well balanced that elves are at least lacking at something...just my honest opinion tho...
The reason the barrow-wights did well is because they have relentless!
its a shame that Sauron's will did not make it to list, Sauron disappointed to his orc again
Delayed, thought somethings wrong with the audio.
Thank you Galu. I don’t have to stay up till 1 in the morning to hear your voice :)
Did you test the Troll-Men Champions of Harad? I was surprised to not see them because i decimated the Hammers of Gundabad in an 1on1 once. Otherwise great vid ^^
As a Bree main, I gotta say that the Watchmen Swordguard are amazing units. It's not necessarily because of how strong they are but how economical they are.
You can get a lot of them and they come from an economically-profitable building. Their stats are also high enough that two of them working together could overpower almost any other unit that Bree will reasonably come across, and you can use them to hold the line against pretty much anything bar monsters so long as they have some help.
Pair them with Farmhand Pikes and they can hold off just about anything in the game.
Great video!
Nice video. Just one idea that popped in my mind. It might be interesting to se relative KD ratio as in percentage of enemy unit killed to the percentage of unit that you were testing lost. Or maybe if you were to measure the cost effectiveness and make it into ratio simmilar to KD. Just a suggestion and have a nice day.
Nicely presented
the thing that stops me from cycle charging with shock infantry is that indivigual models tend to get stuck fightingand cant get out. so rhe whole unit wont actually go in for a charge since it stills registers that its “in battle”. instead they slowly crawl up to the enemy unit again, meaning that they arent doing much damage, and probably are doing less then if you just keept them there.
Agree so much
Yeah the skinchangers may lose a relative big amount of men in battle, but remember they are a generals unit so autoreplenish, which makes their use as shock infantry in the Campaign even stronger since you'll almost always have them at full strength in a battle, and with your son and heir you'll have twice as many in a battalion too. And a good General in their unit will make them even stronger.
Yeeee been waiting for this one
Really surprised not to see The Haven guard and Galadhrim swordsmen
I'd be interested in how this would go if they all just had to continually fight another unit and another until they are fully wiped out. I feel like this would account more for the ones who wouldn't die as quickly
What is going on at 23:33 with the dwarves model :D , they are switching their models to regular size for a quick moment whilst fighting , i have never noticed that before
Yeah that has always happened. The animation set for them was never fully completed and we have never had an animator on the team so it has always been that way. :-(
@ its funny how i played DAC for 200+ hours and never noticed that :D
finally one of top 10
Inaccurate evaluation Greyflood axemen should've won, Enedwaith forever!
Because the dwarves lack cav this only seems fair
Have you tested the Grimborn Reavers? I'm quite surprised they're not on the list, they're absolute monsters in my ered luin campaign.
Quick question about the lore of the temple wards, are they supposed to be some form of warrior monk kind of unit, as is them being raised from children to be warriors as their name suggests. If not wouldn't the name be more like temple wardens? Sorry if this is a nitpick but the name was just tickling the literary part of my mind
So looking at the stats, can someone explain to me why the Noldor Swordmasters of the High Elves didn't place in one of the top spots? They seem to have better stats than a lot of these units, so what caused them to rank as they did?
Was it simply the low number of them that there are?
LOVE TOP 10 VIDS
I really miss these flat battle maps during the DAC Campaign :(
I'm surprised to not see Uruk hai berserkers or Axemen of Lossarnach anywhere on this list... but the relative lack of elves doesn't surprise me. HE in particular are somewhat starved of AP, which rather strangely tilts them towards being an early game faction when armour will not be so present in their enemies. Raw attack stats are great but as this list shows, there's no substitute for AP.
Top 10 tier 1 axe infantry would be interesting (I think dale militia are reaaally strong)
I would love to read the brief history info of each units
Where did the Lossarnach Axemen end up? Kinda sad they didn't make it.
puts #1 as a unit not publicly available so we couldnt guess it right. got us in the first half there
Was rather surprised that the Aredhirith of the woodland realm did not make an appearance, or would you not consider them strike infantry because they are also archers? Sorry if you said this in the video and I missed it.
They are archers first and foremost.
does anyone know if the honour guard are in v4.5 or will it be in v5?
Can we have a video on "how many snagas are killed before an unbreakable unit is completely wipeout."
I suspected the Maethyr i Thewair wouldn't make the list, because despite their skill, they're not designed for open combat in the field. They're designed for shock combat in forest ambushes, not to attack a prepared battle line. As for the Noldor Veterans... well, they can just do everything. They'll charge in, then hold the line and defeat just about anyone. To a lesser extent, the same is true of the Haven Guard, Temple Wards, Galadhrim Swordsmen, Dorwinion Armsmen etc; they're not purely shock infantry.
I think the better way to determine the quality of the unit is the KD ratio
Can any other dwarf factions train the new unit?
what did the HM stand for, Hammers?
How do you get Beleriand Honour Guard
lmao at that guy thrusting with a woodcutters axe and killing a dude
GJ MAN
It's obvious that Galu dont played Dunland much. They units beside few specials (Like axemen or Dunhir Champions) are quite sturdy and reliable.
when will v5 release?
Beleriand Honor Guard. Did anyone catch what faction they serve? I re-watched their section, and I still didn't catch it. I suppose if I knew more about the lure, the name would give it away.
I spoke too soon. He said at the end that it is for Arid Lewin
I'm very surprised by dwarves doing well for shock infantry! I shouldn't be really since gimli said "I'm wasted on cross-country! We dwarves are natural spprinters! Very dangerous over short distances!"
Do spear and shield next!
They deserve it!
I'm definitely not sure kill to death ratio was the greatest metric here. If the objective is to determine the best units (which should be the case since you were considering total kills rather than kills per soldier), I would have measured the sustained deaths based on % of the unit lost.
21:14
What a savage.
What a face-slap...
Beleriand Honour Guard could well be the unit that dethrones Mithlond Nobles and Smiths of Eregion from their positions as the best heavy infantry units in the game. Fucking hell 18/10/40 is a CRUSHING statline fast approaching half-troll territory! (excluding those insane elven units with both bows and monstrous meele stats and pikes)
you should buff the Azgals Tomb Protectors they aren't that good for how late game they are
I have a rivalry with the bloody skin changers who once killed my entire Woodland realm stack army with ease. Note there was like 6-8 or something skin changers against a lot of different elven units mostly melee units. I got angry XD
Just out of curiosity, where would you but Blacksmiths of Eregion?
They aren’t strike infantry but I’d guess they would possibly place 3rd or 4th on total kills and probably 2nd or 3rd on KD rank
@@arturravenbite1693 I guess my question was ambiguous. I mean, they aren't strike infantry, they aren't sword and board, so what category would they be?
Jirka Lukl they work the same as sword and board
@@arturravenbite1693 I guess my point was that although they are in essence sword and board, they weren't in the top ten sword and board (as well as other non-sword sword and board units)....so, will they have their own special top-ten list, or will they just be completely ignored?
Minis Ithil Guardians are soo Aesthetic
Top 10 spear and shield or top 10 pike or top 10 bodyguards
^^^^
Wait, so the honor guard model is already in the files in 4.5, just not in the EDU and accessible ingame yet? If that's the case, could we know the model name? Asking for a friend, totally not thinking about modding it in as a totally OP cheat unit myself, not at all... :P
No they are in the V5 build already.
@ Ahhh, I see. And here I was, already scouring the folders and that hellish battle_models file :P
Oh well, one more thing to look forward to with V5 then. Never even really did a full fledged Dwarven run yet, but the Ered Luin faction looks super interesting in V5, at least as much as KD (which I'm not too comfortable with as I'm a slow player, I don't like being too much in the thick of it from the very beginning, while EL has the perfect starting region for my kind of playstyle).
The rings script that's in V4 is quite nice already, for the freedom it gives you, these other additions look an awesome cherry on top.
What does it mean when “(HM)” is next to the AP trait on the screen?
HM meant honourable mention
I think it stands for higher mass, he actually mentions this the first time, with the carrock guard
@@danielsingeorzan2808 That's actually probably right, I only saw it for Honourable mentions. Probably wasn't paying super close attention 😅
@@forrestadams9340 it is honorable mention. IDK where he got that it was high mass.
Ot is honourable mention, i have rewatched that bit, sorry for the confusion
Were mercenary swordsmen benchmarked?
from wich faction are the Beleriand Honour Guard?
I'm guessing Ered Luin
Ered Luin
@@robbierobdergrutzkopfderwa2566 Than you both
they will come from finishing the new buzra dum reclaiming script that they will put in V5. this is the dwarven town SOUTH of mithlond. Galu said that ALL DWARVEN factions will get access to this script(which begins after capturing the town) but essentially only ered luin is close enough to do it when it is actually relevant.
Actually, any dwarf faction that can take bozrah-dhûm. But right now I think ered luin is the only faction that has the script. Plus they're super close to it. Haha
Ñoldor
sword guard for the win
I'm surprised that the nazg-hai didn't make the list
edit: I forgot that their unit size has been reduced in v4 and also I didn't see the second list.
I highly recommend watching the whole vidoe before commenting on untis that "didn't make it".
@ I'm sorry, I was a bit inpatient and I really thought they should be in the first top list. Love your channel and your work. Keep up what you're doing.(also suggestion for top 10 bodyguards?)
Strike infantries are annoying since they die quite fast/alot(due to their animation can't stop incoming attacks I guess), are not really effective as they should be on the paper even if you strike from behind(unless opponent is trash) and they are not cheap at all. I'm using them due to slow replenishment of any other units(I mean we need soldiers on the battlefield at the end))). But they create richness in the roster which is nice and prevents being boring game. I have to exclude those few high armor ones which doesn't die easily.
Out of all the various mods/games I've played I'd say that reforged has my favorite shock infantry implementation.
No axe guard of erebor :(
I really like the Gondorian axemen I forget their name
Lossarnach Axemen? Or Im wrong and its something else.
No thats it thanks
Lossanarch axemen the bodyguard forlang has.. They’re great
Lossarnach Axemen
All this has made me want to do is play Bree
No Mountain-Orc Champions? How /s
Isenmach axeman will get so much kill could be because their opponent was getting bunch of kills as well so they don't route as easily
What about berserkers
Didn't make it.
The Beleriand Honour Guard looks nice, but aren't their stats a bit excessive? I know, they are ultra-rare and locked behind a difficult quest, but still: they have basically the same stats as Eregion Smiths (no shield but even more Defense Skill) and these are suggested to be Calaquendi from the Years of the Trees.
I know this isn't relevant in terms of difficulty or gameplay, since both units are part of relatively easy factions and by the time you get these, the campaign is already won. So it's mainly about flavour and lore accuracy.
Everybody knows those pussy elves can't compare to the might of the Dawi... shit, wrong universe. But still.
Galu still insists in keeping Merchant Infantry at 0 skill while snaga have 1.
Change it in your files if you don’t like it lmao
Im still fairly certain that cost to value in the campaign, the AAs warriors are probably top notch.
Most of the cheaper ones perform far better in practice ye, also much more readily available. Berserkers of Isengard for example only have 150 upkeep for a unit with 2 hitpoints and AP which is amazing.
I'd argue the warriors are borderline overpowered for their cost. They're so cheap and so effective. Sure a lot of them die but with their cost it's barely an issue.
@@Ironwizard42 id agree, because i usually find myself training them over the mace and shield mainline, as cost to effectiveness they just steamroll. I find a couple of them flanking will really trounce late game dwarves
shock infantry is also good against spears and pikes
But why do they strike them from the front and not the back/flank?
Because that would make the tests biased towards armor piercing units
I thought Isengard's berserkers, since they are quick and they are AP. would have placed well...
not enought manpower...
Why? They are 83/4 i think...
maybe their animations are clunky. In my isengard games they sometimes don't charge well.As you can see at the end of the video at 26:00 when the Watchmen Swordsguard are attacked by Rohan Strikeinfantry but only their first rank actually charges.
@@ericmeyer5474 That can happen with any unit really. Berserkers just don't have the combat stats. In campaign they are one of the best though in many regards. They are also fast which is a rather important stat of a strike infantry.
@@jamaly77 they are fantastic, if I am not mistaken they have 2 Hit Points
In the future I think recruitment cost should be factored in to show cost effectiveness of each unit. For example the Isanmach axemen only cost 900 vs say the nazg-hai who cost 1900. You would be able to get 2 of the Isanmach against only one of the Nazg-hai. I would be curious to see how this list would be affected by this additional stat.
Ok but why isn't Orc Band number 1??
Orc band are an excelent unit tho. I mean they're so useful for taking arrows or moving siege equipment into place. I was sad when Isengard lost the ability to recruit them.
@@Ironwizard42 that's their only use,
what about the woodland realm unique unit? they have bows, and then AP axes so they turn into strike units
They are archers.
@ yeh I know, just asking since they have good shock stats after they finished with their bows. Thanks for answering tho
@@weenniethepoop5667 They are like the best all-around then, that's crazy
@@dusk6159 eh, they have good speed and great offensive stats, but they aren't as durable as the top tier shock infantry in the list. It does make sense for the to be that good tho, they have to compete with berio and smiths of eregion as elven unique units.
isenmach is not a supride,dunland has OP units for dunland LOL even HE strugle with their spam.
Temple Wards?
I recommend watching the video in full before commenting.
@ Oh i did not see the second honourable mentions haha :D
NAZG-HAI THROW BOMBS?!?
Yep. Since v4 released, I believe. Haven't tried them but it sure looks cool.