Bolg's Champions and the Sons of Númenor ("that Reunited Kingdom unit") are both Halberds and therefore do not fit in this list - Halberds have a different animation and are armour piercing, they do not fill the same role as pikes. Note that every pike unit was tested against Gondor Militia and the visuals shown here were recorded just to have something interesting to watch.
I don't know how this works out in the files, but could the Fountain Guard and Ar-Pharazon's Faithful be suffering because of the length of their pike? Just from looking at their pike vs the uruk, elven, or dwarven pikes, it's far shorter than all of them, so could it be that their hitbox is more like that of a Halberd rather than a pike? As I said, I dont know if that's what it is, but its an idea.
The Loke Gamp Rim obviously did so well because their excellent fashion caused extra Gondor Militia to fall dead from the shear sight of their excellent Golden armor, compared to the rather drab Wulf’s Guard
I think it's their unit size, they have almost 150 right? They just got a lot of kills, but their kda is poor as they apparently didn't feature in the kda list
Sauroman believes that it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I've learned. I've found that it's the smaller things. It's the everyday deeds by ordinary folks that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Farmhand Pikemen? Perhaps it is because I am afraid. They give me courage.
As Philip II of Macedon already knew, the length of the spear is crucial in a phalanx. Being able to stab the approaching enemy earlier gives you a great advantage. Idk how that is displayed in the files though
Always on condition that you are not flanked. If the phalanx is flanked, then if you withstand or not is a matter of how quickly you turn. If you have a shorter spear, then you turn more quickly. Since you mention Philip, he had a 6-meter spear, thus his own phalanx was more movable. The later phalanxes, though, especially those of the late Seleukid- early Roman period, who had spears of 7 meters or more, were absolutely not movable. This is an equatation that is not easy for a pike unit. So, I'm not surprised to see mid-tier pikes and halberd-like weapons to be the first. Have a nice time, friend.
@@nikoszaxarias5200 I don't argue with you on that point but as Galu mentions in the beginning of the video, the pike units aren't out flanked in the tests
@@nikoszaxarias5200 It wasn't just the length of the sarissas that decreased the mobility of the later Successor formations; the generally lower standard of training, experience and leadership played a role too. That said, the Successors usually expected to go up against opposing pike formations. An emphasis on forward-facing power provided by longer pikes and deeper formations at the cost of mobility was understandable in that context.
Fountain Guard clearly need to be buffed, they are the Elite of the Elite of Men and Best looking ofc. I kinda really liked Fountain Guard as AP Halberds and the Osgiliath Guard as the Pikes really made the Fountain Guard feel like monsters on any battlefield.
@@willek1335 there isn't really much of a semblance of balance in DaC because the lore is totally out of balance. All you really need to do is bump up their price and upkeep.
@@willek1335 Lower unit size is always an option for balance, would fit with Fountain Guards theme anyway of a small select few chosen by the Steward's Son himself. Thats ofc if they go back to ap Halberds, These tests really only showed maybe Fountain Guard attack should be raised by 2 or so.
you do realise that pikes are better than halberdiers right? the problem with the FG is that unit sizes is to small for their stats compared to the other units around them but in a realistic battle they would be a lot higher up because of their stats and their stamina.
Galu, what might be affecting this is the attack delay value in the files. It's the second-to-last value under stat_pri in the EDU. I haven't checked all the pikes but these values aren't consistent across the various types and tiers of units in the mod and could probably use a balance to make things more consistent. For example, if a pike has a really short delay, that means units can rarely get close enough to attack them. Where if it's a longer delay, the pike animation isn't as powerful since more units can get in close and attack. I did test this in the past and there was a noticeable difference. I'd suggest more elite units get shorter attack delays, as well as the different types of units having across the board higher (eg: pikes) or lower (eg: swords) attack delays.
@@Irgendjemandlol This ^. The length of the model of the pike doesn't matter at all. They have the same animation and traits as other pikes, thus they will act and perform the same way.
@Hummingbird even if the animation is the same the fact that the opponent needs to walk a greater length through pikes means they'll get attacked more even with the same animation
Hey, I don't comment much on your videos, but I would just like to say you're my favorite Total War/Lord of the Rings youtuber!! truly great content :)
And did you notice at the start if the video the high elves amanyar swordmasters have been reskinned to look almost like the teleri units.and I believe the eregion Smith's have that new blue cape
Thanks for dropping something, I’m literally starting day 2 into having COVID and being in isolation, and I’ve already watched everything on youtube it feels.
Maybe the Dwarves had a "leg up" because of their smaller hit boxes? Taking less hits means less times wasted in the staggering animation which could lead to more kills.
Moriquendi masterrace! They are just sooo good and you can get them everywhere. You can also get them if you take the fallen settlements of other Northmen factions back from the forces of evil.
If you really want to, Galu has modding tutorials on his channel that show where and how to do that in the files. I've made excellent use of the tutorials.
I've been looking forward to this video for a while, because pikes are just some of my favorite units. I know their animation is kind of cheesy, but I just love having a couple of infantry units that can sit there in front of whatever charges at them doing their best Gandalf impression, "You shall not pass!"
I always do an Alatriste reenactment of the battle of Rocroi with Ar-Pharazon’s faithful crossbowmen or archers shooting and retreating behind the walls of pike while at the same time as lines clash I can’t help but imagine some of the elite adunaim soldiers crawling under the pikes to stab the groin of the enemy.
I wish y'all hadn't changed the helmets on the Beleriand Honor Guard. But hey, stylist preferences are personal! We appreciate all your work, Galu (and the rest of the team!)
Think I'm going to agree with the group here. Give the fountain guard proper pikes or make them proper spearmen with shields. A price and upkeep adjustment is always possible.
In my honest opinion, the whole games unit stats should be reworked, juste like it was done with the cavalry, for exemple, a goblin band has a higher defence than a let's say dorwinion levy, but it should be the other way around as they are almost identical rolewise but humans are better than goblins
I'm pretty sure Dorwinion's levy are the equivalent of Moria's Snaga, since neither of them require a barracks, while Goblin band do require a barracks and so are the equivalent to the Thorn units. In both cases the Dorwinion unit is better.
I'm not so sure levied farmers would actually be better soldiers than goblins from a pretty martial culture. Orcs/goblins may be a bit cowardly, but Tolkien does write that they were bred for war.
I think you could measure a third tierlist for availability with KD*n°provinces/cost. This will likely get the most elite ones quite low, and make shine the middle tier units, they ones that you will see the most throughout your campaigns.
I thought that to be the case too, but as it turns out, the model of the pike doesn't matter, since they use the same animation as the other pike units, their attack range etc. is the same.
@@50ULL355 Yh I know, but some of the guys on the modding team, said that it didn't affect their actual attack range, but that it was a matter of whether or not they had the same attack animations.
Hi Galu, great video, i'm a pike lover so i appreciate very much, i had my self made some tests some time ago and interestingly i got the same order you obtained in the kill death ratio list, cause i have tested them that way. The new dwarf unit btw is a beast, i can't wait to use it.
If I may be so bold, I think the "pikes" on the Beleriand Honour Guard look rather silly. Dwarf or not, it would be nigh impossible to hold a weapon with a centre of balance so ludcirously far out for more than a few seconds. Otherwise, their armour looks excellent and I'm looking forward to playing with them in V5!
And that, my friend, is why we are not dwarves XD They are much stronger than men and they historically have more stamina than we do. They were made by Aule, after all. They would be able to handle such a weapon with ease and use that axehead very effectively. That and their short stature would make it less of a struggle to hold off the ground.
@@rookcapcoldblood2618 They were not much stronger, they can resist hardship's better. And their stamina is for walking. Also this isnt all about strenght as it is also about weight in which case humans are either the same or better.
@@stefankatsarov5806 Dwarves are stronger than humans. It is laid down that they are more capable in that way. There is no argument you have that refutes the constant assertion that dwarves are stronger than humans in fantasy.
The only suggestion I'd make for the future (if you'll ever decide to redo these as you sometimes redo the faction overviews) is that the KD ratio list in these videos should perhaps take into account the unit size to slightly better reflect long term campaign usefulness (even though unit size already also affects effectiveness on the battlefield). Losing 10 men means losing 10% of your force if the unit is made of 100 men, but only 5% for a 200 men unit (which, btw, means the Farmhand do pretty well indeed for their price, as a 1 kd ratio for them equals to around 2 kd for other more average sized units). This would mean nothing in the newer TW games with their autoreplenishment, but in med2 with its retraining system *and* the often superlong times and availability constraints in the DaC campaign? That can be huge. Keeping your units as close to full size for as long as possible is what you pretty much try to do the whole campaign. Keeping count of this proportion could better (even if still roughly ofc) reflect real game performance without having to delve way too deep into price/training time and similar arguably more complicated variables that'd require more data collection. Anyway, I've never been a dwarves guy, but V5 Ered Luin will really be worth a playthrough. Whenever it comes. Which means seven.
First legion is super broken, i remember doing battle with 2 first legions against 2600 moria soldiers, winning it with 12 lost soldiers vs 2400 lost soldiers.
Pikes are quite interesting and can be used effectively but they suffer in certain situations. Firstly, when used by the AI they are useless in almost all cases. Secondly, in some situations the AI can combat your pike formations by "pushing through" into your formation. This means instead of merely attacking them the entire enemy host runs through your army trying to get to the other side of it. This mostly happens in sieges or on bridges. When this happens the "pike bug" doesn't work and the enemies can actually attack the pikemen instead of being stun-locked at a distance. Though this "pushing through" can also be simulated by shieldwall units who close the distance thanks to their formation. Due to their bad stats pikes will lose every single time against similar tier swordsmen and often even against lower tier swordsmen if they're not permitted to employ their "pike bug" which means repeatedly stabbing the units at a distance so that they can hardly fight back while the rest of their comrades stand and watch as it happens. But it can be great fun to exploit the dumb AI sometimes with them because this "pike bug" if allowed to persists in a battle can have very weak pike units defeat powerful enemies.
I think all these are due to terrain maluses and bonuses, as Loke Gamp Rim has +2 terrain bonus in grassland (scrub) and Wulf's Pikes have +1. Meanwhile Tharbad Royal Guard has -1 in grassland, so this could explain some of the stats there depending on the map it was tested in.
If you factor in the strategic side, I'd say any unit that can only be recruited in one place (or a small group of places) drops dramatically in score (though probably increases in fun factor). Uruk-Hai are very good, fast recruitment and anywhere, but for lategame doomstacks It's Moriquendi and First Legion due to being recruitable everywhere and replenishing fast enough to have armies of them.
tbh dunlending pikemen were adequate for me playing as Isengard while trying to wipe out Rohan quickly in the early game. Perfectly capable of stopping most of Rohan's early mounted units at a charge.
farmand pikemen are best for holding chokepoints and wearing out the enemy. i generally only use them for defending settlements, especially with their low upkeep. under the command of a top general they'll fight to the last man.
Of course testing would take much longer, but an interesting analysis would be to let the battle run until the gondor militia is all dead. Then your KD ratios would be more representative of a real battle. Holding time the same gives a bias toward high attack. Allowing the battle to play out lets armor, defense rating, and fatigue influence become more important and gives you a larger statistical sample size. Time it takes to kill a whole unit would be interesting too. I definitely appreciate how difficult it is to design this well!
Can't answer for why Ar-Pharâzon's Faithful fell short but Fountain Guard having short pikes certainly does not help them kill the enemy any faster. Though, speaking of that, having played Gondor and the Ar-Adûnâim both at least a dozen times in V4/V4.5, just like the Tirno, they both take a minute to get their motor going, so to speak, before they just melt units.
My guess on the topic of why the Rhûnic and dwarven pikes did so well is they might have higher mass, which always plays a significant role in the earlier Total War games. Their formation doesn't get pushed into and broken so easily.
Elven early units are supposed to be too expensive for their numbers and performance, as they're already the best early units in the game. You don't need to buff an already very strong faction. Having early pikes this strong, along with archers and unkillable OP retinues, makes early expansion for the high elves a no-brainer. They don't need any more buffs.
Farmland pikes are still very useful though, can bolster any army that needs some numbers. They also do sometimes get a surprising amount of kills in the right situation.
Farmhand pikemen traded well if ratio was 1:1 bcs of their unit size which is higher than gondor milita means they will have more men after the battle and also gondor militia is a higher quality unit. In my opinion it is a underdog story, unit that for it's cost can inflict decent casualties on higher quality enemies. I never trained them but I will when the next version comes out. Speaking of that does anybody know the planned release date, or it wasn't revealed yet?
Galu, I'm playing a version 4.5 game with the Northern Dunedain and I just reached Erebor and Dale, both of them mostly out of the game destroyed by Dol Guldur and Rhun. I'm a little disappointed by the fact that most elite units of the Northern Dunedain are AOR restricted which makes it really hard do deploy these units on the frontline. I would like to ask if there is any work beeing put to make the Northern Dunedain units more readily avaible on version 5.0 of the game? One sugestion that I would make is to allow the training of the Northern Dunedain elite units on every original capital region of the game. Thank you for the great content!
3 ปีที่แล้ว +2
Dunedain units are available everywhere but with high culture requirment in V5.
The length of the pike on the model effects nothing, the engine doesn't work that way. All pikes use the same animation and the same basic set of traits that identifies them as "pike" units to the engine, thus giving them their longer reach than other units. All pikes actually have the same reach regardless.
A case could be made that farmhand pikemen aren't meant to do anything other than stop gaps until better troops can get there or stop cavalry, and that's their only use.
I absolutely agree. They are there to primarily tire units out and hold them in place. Being able to control the battlefield like that with a single unit is invaluable in some battles, and even if the enemy has a strong unit there, it’s very easy to hold them in place for at least a few minutes with that unit. Then, when you slam into them, they break or die easier.
@@rookcapcoldblood2618 It is that reason that when I'm playing a faction with trash, like Skaven in Warhammer II, I always keep a couple units of trash in the army. Excellent for buying time or clumping up enemies for monsters and artillery.
As someone who commonly plays as elves I wish that the galadhrim guards for lorien were changed to a pike,to add a bit more diversity as they have a halberd in their mid tier
The reason the fountain guard are so low might be because their short spear. and maybe their phalanx positioning could be a bit different than the others in the space between units?
Does anyone know the name of the song that plays in the background at the beginning? It's in a lot of Galus videos but I've never been able to actually find the song
Something that I am taking away from this list is that pikemen in general are very good. Now obviously, we all knew this, but even the 10th entry on the kill death ratio list had a KD of 12. That is nothing to scoff at for one unit, and likely that unit will be in a better defensive or offensive position than these tests portrayed. If this does not convince people that pikemen and defenders can hold a settlement single-handedly, I don’t know what will. They’re the perfect cost effective garrison unit.
It seems to me that there are differences in both formation tightness and the lenght of pikes. I have no knowledge on how these factors apply to ability til kill, however, I have made the assumption that this makes for a more impenetrable zone of defence. These factors might be what makes certain statswise good units underperform.
All of your videos are great, I really enjoy them including skyrim! although my favorites are the dunidain campaign would you consider another play through and do not kill aragorn if you can help it
Not relatable to this video but does anyone know why the sound of Galu’s mic sounds static when i watch this on my tv, using the tv’s youtube app? No other channel, videos or apps on the tv make this static noise
Bolg's Champions and the Sons of Númenor ("that Reunited Kingdom unit") are both Halberds and therefore do not fit in this list - Halberds have a different animation and are armour piercing, they do not fill the same role as pikes.
Note that every pike unit was tested against Gondor Militia and the visuals shown here were recorded just to have something interesting to watch.
I don't know how this works out in the files, but could the Fountain Guard and Ar-Pharazon's Faithful be suffering because of the length of their pike? Just from looking at their pike vs the uruk, elven, or dwarven pikes, it's far shorter than all of them, so could it be that their hitbox is more like that of a Halberd rather than a pike? As I said, I dont know if that's what it is, but its an idea.
@@Tiger2071-e6f Hitbox question got already answered in the comments.
I rather think its has something todo with the terrain bonuses and maluses
You almost had me with the Farmhand Pikemen.
He had me, I was baffled
I'd argue that the Urk-Hai Pikemen are the best pike in a campaign due to their cost and availability everywhere. The orc spam is real.
With an Isenguard World Conquest, these guys carried haaard
Uruk Hai Pikes are easy way to destroy rohan
@@Alberto__-mo9rf when I get them, Rohan is usually dead
Agreed, and if they are not capable of killing a unit they can hold them while the crossbows do the killing.
The Loke Gamp Rim obviously did so well because their excellent fashion caused extra Gondor Militia to fall dead from the shear sight of their excellent Golden armor, compared to the rather drab Wulf’s Guard
Agreed for once Rhun getting some appreciation.
Joking aside I am quite curious as to why the Gamp Rim did so well even with their rather mediocre stats compared to the rest of the units.
I think it's their unit size, they have almost 150 right? They just got a lot of kills, but their kda is poor as they apparently didn't feature in the kda list
@@50ULL355 same unit size as wulfs pikes
That’ll change with the new Dunland models.
The life of a Gondor militiaman must be a confusing one indeed.
Sauroman believes that it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I've learned. I've found that it's the smaller things. It's the everyday deeds by ordinary folks that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Farmhand Pikemen? Perhaps it is because I am afraid. They give me courage.
Beautiful
O my god. You are a genius
The fact you spelled Saruman wrong triggers me.
@@YawnWoofDog Sauroman is a dinosaur-wizard hybrid of immense power.
@@brandencullinan8886 the sauromanosaurosrex
As Philip II of Macedon already knew, the length of the spear is crucial in a phalanx. Being able to stab the approaching enemy earlier gives you a great advantage. Idk how that is displayed in the files though
You saw it with the fountain guard, who have their weapon defined as a short spear, not an actual pike
Always on condition that you are not flanked. If the phalanx is flanked, then if you withstand or not is a matter of how quickly you turn. If you have a shorter spear, then you turn more quickly. Since you mention Philip, he had a 6-meter spear, thus his own phalanx was more movable. The later phalanxes, though, especially those of the late Seleukid- early Roman period, who had spears of 7 meters or more, were absolutely not movable. This is an equatation that is not easy for a pike unit. So, I'm not surprised to see mid-tier pikes and halberd-like weapons to be the first. Have a nice time, friend.
@@nikoszaxarias5200 I don't argue with you on that point but as Galu mentions in the beginning of the video, the pike units aren't out flanked in the tests
@@peerb5102, all OK, mate. Just answered to your comment. Of course, I knew Galu had his pikes not flanked, he said that in the video...
@@nikoszaxarias5200 It wasn't just the length of the sarissas that decreased the mobility of the later Successor formations; the generally lower standard of training, experience and leadership played a role too.
That said, the Successors usually expected to go up against opposing pike formations. An emphasis on forward-facing power provided by longer pikes and deeper formations at the cost of mobility was understandable in that context.
Fountain Guard clearly need to be buffed, they are the Elite of the Elite of Men and Best looking ofc. I kinda really liked Fountain Guard as AP Halberds and the Osgiliath Guard as the Pikes really made the Fountain Guard feel like monsters on any battlefield.
Which other Gondorian would you nerf in order to achieve some measure of balance?
@@willek1335 there isn't really much of a semblance of balance in DaC because the lore is totally out of balance. All you really need to do is bump up their price and upkeep.
@@willek1335 Lower unit size is always an option for balance, would fit with Fountain Guards theme anyway of a small select few chosen by the Steward's Son himself. Thats ofc if they go back to ap Halberds, These tests really only showed maybe Fountain Guard attack should be raised by 2 or so.
In a campaign you'll get attack bonuses on them anyways so they'll become as good as the pikemen higher on the list.
you do realise that pikes are better than halberdiers right? the problem with the FG is that unit sizes is to small for their stats compared to the other units around them but in a realistic battle they would be a lot higher up because of their stats and their stamina.
Galu, what might be affecting this is the attack delay value in the files. It's the second-to-last value under stat_pri in the EDU. I haven't checked all the pikes but these values aren't consistent across the various types and tiers of units in the mod and could probably use a balance to make things more consistent. For example, if a pike has a really short delay, that means units can rarely get close enough to attack them. Where if it's a longer delay, the pike animation isn't as powerful since more units can get in close and attack. I did test this in the past and there was a noticeable difference. I'd suggest more elite units get shorter attack delays, as well as the different types of units having across the board higher (eg: pikes) or lower (eg: swords) attack delays.
Kinda crazy that Farmhand Pikes managed to take 1 for 1 against a unit with much higher stats. They really are fantastic value for money!
The reason fountain guard is that Low is only because they have Short spear.
If they use the same animationset their attack range is the same. The actual model doesnt matter
@@Irgendjemandlol This ^. The length of the model of the pike doesn't matter at all. They have the same animation and traits as other pikes, thus they will act and perform the same way.
@@feelingpine9123 What would matter then? Unit spacing? Cohesion? Some mentioned they use spear instead of pike. Is that true?
+1
@Hummingbird even if the animation is the same the fact that the opponent needs to walk a greater length through pikes means they'll get attacked more even with the same animation
Hey, I don't comment much on your videos, but I would just like to say you're my favorite Total War/Lord of the Rings youtuber!! truly great content :)
Thank you very much! :) Glad to have you here!
Beleriand Honour Guard look so good, love the helmet and semi-axe head on their pikes... almost like even their pikemen can't quite abandon the axe.
And did you notice at the start if the video the high elves amanyar swordmasters have been reskinned to look almost like the teleri units.and I believe the eregion Smith's have that new blue cape
The weapons on beleriand honour guard really looks more like a halberd unit than pikes
Thanks for dropping something, I’m literally starting day 2 into having COVID and being in isolation, and I’ve already watched everything on youtube it feels.
Watch Izzy's Dorwinion campaign.
Maybe the Dwarves had a "leg up" because of their smaller hit boxes? Taking less hits means less times wasted in the staggering animation which could lead to more kills.
Moriquendi masterrace! They are just sooo good and you can get them everywhere. You can also get them if you take the fallen settlements of other Northmen factions back from the forces of evil.
Say what you want, Southron Pikemen let none pass through them
Great Video Galu loving the content and ty for continuing to develop DaC
Finally!!!!! So highly anticipated
Your videos keep amazing me with their quality year after year. Never change Arachîr Galudirithon
Thank you very much. :)
13:20 After playing DaC for a while now, that Farmhand Pike joke made me chuckle.
They are ridiculously effective for their cost. As a Breeland player, I like them a lot. They can hold anything coming from their front.
Fountain guard have shorter spears (should be ap if they are short like in Reforged)
If you really want to, Galu has modding tutorials on his channel that show where and how to do that in the files. I've made excellent use of the tutorials.
the spear sise is asthetic no more
I would definitely love so see a buff to the faithful and the fountain guard.
I've been looking forward to this video for a while, because pikes are just some of my favorite units. I know their animation is kind of cheesy, but I just love having a couple of infantry units that can sit there in front of whatever charges at them doing their best Gandalf impression, "You shall not pass!"
I always do an Alatriste reenactment of the battle of Rocroi with Ar-Pharazon’s faithful crossbowmen or archers shooting and retreating behind the walls of pike while at the same time as lines clash I can’t help but imagine some of the elite adunaim soldiers crawling under the pikes to stab the groin of the enemy.
I wish y'all hadn't changed the helmets on the Beleriand Honor Guard. But hey, stylist preferences are personal! We appreciate all your work, Galu (and the rest of the team!)
Think I'm going to agree with the group here. Give the fountain guard proper pikes or make them proper spearmen with shields. A price and upkeep adjustment is always possible.
Idk, even though their kill totals weren't great, their kda was where I'd expect it to be, so the performance of the unit is still pretty good
I don't know about the spearman solution, it would be criminal to take away the double-handed pike from the Fountain Guard looks
In my honest opinion, the whole games unit stats should be reworked, juste like it was done with the cavalry, for exemple, a goblin band has a higher defence than a let's say dorwinion levy, but it should be the other way around as they are almost identical rolewise but humans are better than goblins
I'm pretty sure Dorwinion's levy are the equivalent of Moria's Snaga, since neither of them require a barracks, while Goblin band do require a barracks and so are the equivalent to the Thorn units. In both cases the Dorwinion unit is better.
I'm not so sure levied farmers would actually be better soldiers than goblins from a pretty martial culture. Orcs/goblins may be a bit cowardly, but Tolkien does write that they were bred for war.
@@justinsandberg6310 Tolkien doesn't write that orcs are bred for war, a large part of the orcs are part of the snaga class who are just laborers.
@@justinsandberg6310 Being bred for war does not make you inherently good at war.
I think you could measure a third tierlist for availability with KD*n°provinces/cost. This will likely get the most elite ones quite low, and make shine the middle tier units, they ones that you will see the most throughout your campaigns.
it’s cause of the length of the pikes i imagine. FOUNTAIN GUARD BUFF NECESSARY 0.0
I don't think they need a buff tbh
Their kda was only worse than elves and dwarves
I thought that to be the case too, but as it turns out, the model of the pike doesn't matter, since they use the same animation as the other pike units, their attack range etc. is the same.
@@Goony1246 their attack range is actually shorter tho because their weapon is described as a short spear
@@50ULL355 Yh I know, but some of the guys on the modding team, said that it didn't affect their actual attack range, but that it was a matter of whether or not they had the same attack animations.
@@Goony1246 well damn. Consider me corrected
Excellent video! We need more like this covering V5 :D
I am telling people about you I enjoy the content have been watching since first version of dol amroth.
Hi Galu, great video, i'm a pike lover so i appreciate very much, i had my self made some tests some time ago and interestingly i got the same order you obtained in the kill death ratio list, cause i have tested them that way.
The new dwarf unit btw is a beast, i can't wait to use it.
Thanks for the shout out Galu!!!
Love the video
This popped up on my recommended videos and I thought, "Hey, why not?" I had forgotten how much I missed that intro. I hope Arachir is doing well.
If I may be so bold, I think the "pikes" on the Beleriand Honour Guard look rather silly. Dwarf or not, it would be nigh impossible to hold a weapon with a centre of balance so ludcirously far out for more than a few seconds. Otherwise, their armour looks excellent and I'm looking forward to playing with them in V5!
And that, my friend, is why we are not dwarves XD
They are much stronger than men and they historically have more stamina than we do. They were made by Aule, after all. They would be able to handle such a weapon with ease and use that axehead very effectively. That and their short stature would make it less of a struggle to hold off the ground.
@@rookcapcoldblood2618 They were not much stronger, they can resist hardship's better. And their stamina is for walking.
Also this isnt all about strenght as it is also about weight in which case humans are either the same or better.
@@stefankatsarov5806
Dwarves are stronger than humans. It is laid down that they are more capable in that way. There is no argument you have that refutes the constant assertion that dwarves are stronger than humans in fantasy.
Great video, it would of been interesting to see how this would of changed if it was a pike and halberd tier list
so weird seeing pikemen actually use their pikes in medieval 2
First things first, remove every pike unit's secondary weapon.
The Rhunic unit might have a longer pike.
The only suggestion I'd make for the future (if you'll ever decide to redo these as you sometimes redo the faction overviews) is that the KD ratio list in these videos should perhaps take into account the unit size to slightly better reflect long term campaign usefulness (even though unit size already also affects effectiveness on the battlefield).
Losing 10 men means losing 10% of your force if the unit is made of 100 men, but only 5% for a 200 men unit (which, btw, means the Farmhand do pretty well indeed for their price, as a 1 kd ratio for them equals to around 2 kd for other more average sized units).
This would mean nothing in the newer TW games with their autoreplenishment, but in med2 with its retraining system *and* the often superlong times and availability constraints in the DaC campaign? That can be huge. Keeping your units as close to full size for as long as possible is what you pretty much try to do the whole campaign. Keeping count of this proportion could better (even if still roughly ofc) reflect real game performance without having to delve way too deep into price/training time and similar arguably more complicated variables that'd require more data collection.
Anyway, I've never been a dwarves guy, but V5 Ered Luin will really be worth a playthrough. Whenever it comes. Which means seven.
a long time coming but worth the wait
Why loke-gamp rim did better tan wulf? Simply because there so cool
First legion is super broken, i remember doing battle with 2 first legions against 2600 moria soldiers, winning it with 12 lost soldiers vs 2400 lost soldiers.
Pikes are quite interesting and can be used effectively but they suffer in certain situations. Firstly, when used by the AI they are useless in almost all cases. Secondly, in some situations the AI can combat your pike formations by "pushing through" into your formation. This means instead of merely attacking them the entire enemy host runs through your army trying to get to the other side of it. This mostly happens in sieges or on bridges. When this happens the "pike bug" doesn't work and the enemies can actually attack the pikemen instead of being stun-locked at a distance. Though this "pushing through" can also be simulated by shieldwall units who close the distance thanks to their formation.
Due to their bad stats pikes will lose every single time against similar tier swordsmen and often even against lower tier swordsmen if they're not permitted to employ their "pike bug" which means repeatedly stabbing the units at a distance so that they can hardly fight back while the rest of their comrades stand and watch as it happens. But it can be great fun to exploit the dumb AI sometimes with them because this "pike bug" if allowed to persists in a battle can have very weak pike units defeat powerful enemies.
I think all these are due to terrain maluses and bonuses, as Loke Gamp Rim has +2 terrain bonus in grassland (scrub) and Wulf's Pikes have +1. Meanwhile Tharbad Royal Guard has -1 in grassland, so this could explain some of the stats there depending on the map it was tested in.
Those only affect morale as far as Im aware.
If you factor in the strategic side, I'd say any unit that can only be recruited in one place (or a small group of places) drops dramatically in score (though probably increases in fun factor). Uruk-Hai are very good, fast recruitment and anywhere, but for lategame doomstacks It's Moriquendi and First Legion due to being recruitable everywhere and replenishing fast enough to have armies of them.
The true heroes making their way across the river at 6:50
tbh dunlending pikemen were adequate for me playing as Isengard while trying to wipe out Rohan quickly in the early game. Perfectly capable of stopping most of Rohan's early mounted units at a charge.
farmand pikemen are best for holding chokepoints and wearing out the enemy. i generally only use them for defending settlements, especially with their low upkeep. under the command of a top general they'll fight to the last man.
Brave and stout hearts.
Of course testing would take much longer, but an interesting analysis would be to let the battle run until the gondor militia is all dead. Then your KD ratios would be more representative of a real battle. Holding time the same gives a bias toward high attack. Allowing the battle to play out lets armor, defense rating, and fatigue influence become more important and gives you a larger statistical sample size. Time it takes to kill a whole unit would be interesting too. I definitely appreciate how difficult it is to design this well!
Can't answer for why Ar-Pharâzon's Faithful fell short but Fountain Guard having short pikes certainly does not help them kill the enemy any faster.
Though, speaking of that, having played Gondor and the Ar-Adûnâim both at least a dozen times in V4/V4.5, just like the Tirno, they both take a minute to get their motor going, so to speak, before they just melt units.
Yep, playing AA and they butcher everything the AI throws at them
Interesting list. Thank you Galu. I’m surprised by Isengard pikes. Yay, farmhand pikes the best !!
My bois the farm hand pikemen got done dirty!
My guess on the topic of why the Rhûnic and dwarven pikes did so well is they might have higher mass, which always plays a significant role in the earlier Total War games. Their formation doesn't get pushed into and broken so easily.
For what they cost, Lindon Longspears could really use a buff.
I buff or nerf what I want in the unit.txt file. It's very simple
If you mean a cost reduction, i can agree. If you mean a stat buff then I have to disagree
Elven early units are supposed to be too expensive for their numbers and performance, as they're already the best early units in the game. You don't need to buff an already very strong faction. Having early pikes this strong, along with archers and unkillable OP retinues, makes early expansion for the high elves a no-brainer. They don't need any more buffs.
@@ggleplussuxx4787 eh i wouldn't mind a slight cost decrease, considering their low replenishment rate and that they're region locked
@@50ULL355 Or let them train everywhere.
YES a top 10 video !!!
Farmland pikes are still very useful though, can bolster any army that needs some numbers. They also do sometimes get a surprising amount of kills in the right situation.
I'd love a vid about when to use pikewall or defensive stance
Just came here to proof to myself that nothing stands tall before the pikes of the dwarves.
Farmhand pikemen traded well if ratio was 1:1 bcs of their unit size which is higher than gondor milita means they will have more men after the battle and also gondor militia is a higher quality unit. In my opinion it is a underdog story, unit that for it's cost can inflict decent casualties on higher quality enemies. I never trained them but I will when the next version comes out. Speaking of that does anybody know the planned release date, or it wasn't revealed yet?
The previous Beleriand Honour Guard with the red cloaks that used to be a shock infantry looked so much cooler.
btw in the description third has two h's
Galu, I'm playing a version 4.5 game with the Northern Dunedain and I just reached Erebor and Dale, both of them mostly out of the game destroyed by Dol Guldur and Rhun. I'm a little disappointed by the fact that most elite units of the Northern Dunedain are AOR restricted which makes it really hard do deploy these units on the frontline.
I would like to ask if there is any work beeing put to make the Northern Dunedain units more readily avaible on version 5.0 of the game?
One sugestion that I would make is to allow the training of the Northern Dunedain elite units on every original capital region of the game.
Thank you for the great content!
Dunedain units are available everywhere but with high culture requirment in V5.
Animation makes a big difference, the longer the pike the better!
The length of the pike on the model effects nothing, the engine doesn't work that way. All pikes use the same animation and the same basic set of traits that identifies them as "pike" units to the engine, thus giving them their longer reach than other units. All pikes actually have the same reach regardless.
A case could be made that farmhand pikemen aren't meant to do anything other than stop gaps until better troops can get there or stop cavalry, and that's their only use.
I absolutely agree. They are there to primarily tire units out and hold them in place. Being able to control the battlefield like that with a single unit is invaluable in some battles, and even if the enemy has a strong unit there, it’s very easy to hold them in place for at least a few minutes with that unit.
Then, when you slam into them, they break or die easier.
@@rookcapcoldblood2618 It is that reason that when I'm playing a faction with trash, like Skaven in Warhammer II, I always keep a couple units of trash in the army. Excellent for buying time or clumping up enemies for monsters and artillery.
Some units performing way better than expected might have to do with the length of the pikes, allowing the third rank to deal damage as well.
As someone who commonly plays as elves I wish that the galadhrim guards for lorien were changed to a pike,to add a bit more diversity as they have a halberd in their mid tier
The reason the fountain guard are so low might be because their short spear. and maybe their phalanx positioning could be a bit different than the others in the space between units?
Does anyone know the name of the song that plays in the background at the beginning? It's in a lot of Galus videos but I've never been able to actually find the song
i think the gamp-rim have long-spear and this may give them the advantage over the wolvespikes
Something that I am taking away from this list is that pikemen in general are very good. Now obviously, we all knew this, but even the 10th entry on the kill death ratio list had a KD of 12. That is nothing to scoff at for one unit, and likely that unit will be in a better defensive or offensive position than these tests portrayed.
If this does not convince people that pikemen and defenders can hold a settlement single-handedly, I don’t know what will. They’re the perfect cost effective garrison unit.
2nd list is one we expected ranking to be like
Unit details are amazing
It seems to me that there are differences in both formation tightness and the lenght of pikes.
I have no knowledge on how these factors apply to ability til kill, however, I have made the assumption that this makes for a more impenetrable zone of defence.
These factors might be what makes certain statswise good units underperform.
Surprised I didn't see Bolg's Champions as at least an honourable mention
Halberds.
Yes let's go, a top ten!
All of your videos are great, I really enjoy them including skyrim! although my favorites are the dunidain campaign would you consider another play through and do not kill aragorn if you can help it
how about a Value/Upkeep Cost top 10 ?
So the Human Faction have a chance for the top tiers ?
So have the Loke Gamp-Rim been changed to a long pike unit in 5.0? Or have I been missing something?
The Rhun pikemen did so well because they are so pretty.
Can you do spears or halberdiers next?
Loke gamp rim have better morale, and more mass than wolf's pikes ?
The honour guard should be available to all dwarves like for example the hammers of gundabad, sons of the fallen and dragon slayers
Fellas, it finally happened.
which faction is best for a pike and ranged style of play
3:38 nice
The loke rim are perhaps a morale question?
Version 5 soon yes yes
rhudaur pikes are still #1 in my heart.
Awesome 😎😎😎👍
Farmhandpikes, of course!
Now this is nice
The ruhn pike either have more people fighting or they have ap.
Don't disrespect the Farmhand pikemen
What about Son´s of Numenor don't they have some crazy stats that should put them on here?
Halberds
@ alright, thanks for clearing that up I always put them in the same category as the Tharbad Guys because they look and do the same kinda thing :D
farmhand pikemen are better in context
Wolf’s pikes, nice
Range a concern, perhaps?
Not relatable to this video but does anyone know why the sound of Galu’s mic sounds static when i watch this on my tv, using the tv’s youtube app? No other channel, videos or apps on the tv make this static noise