Divide & Conquer (V4.5): Faction Overview - Mordor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- 16:04 - Battle Overview
Divide and Conquer is a mod for Medieval 2 Total War that is based upon Third Age: Total War. I am the current team leader of the modding team behind Divide and Conquer.
V4.5 Changelog:
bit.ly/3a0SPj6
Discord:
/ discord
Mod DB:
www.moddb.com/m...
Patreon:
/ galudirithon
Music provided by Adrian von Ziegler and Vindsvept:
/ adrianvonziegler
/ @vindsvept
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GgeGQOP10RQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Izzy, one of the content creator for DaC, a mordor connoisseur, is playing Mordor and he came up with an idea where after you get the ring Sauron claims Dol Guldur and the two factions combine.
Ive been watching him alot and I second this.
Wise Owl he and another one named “Gone with Gandalf” are my favorites right now, I hope I like the campaign Galu does.. because I really don’t like dwarves and I prefer DaC.
TheArgonaut and ahtravesty are pretty good as well
Wise Owl they were my go to’s for campaigns after Galu :)
That would be great.
I think this has probably been commented on before, but I’ll mention it again because I think it might have been forgotten; I think it makes more thematic sense for Leofric’s BG to be temple wards, not marksmen. His story describes his proficiency as a swordsman, so I think that would be a welcome change to his BG. Thanks to you and the team!
All Nazgul are getting themed bodyguards in the next version anyway.
@ Damn, that's awesome to hear
Mordor is a 5 because few can play until 80 regions have been captured
“Why would you capture this city with high stone walls, only to raze it and replace it with a camp and palisade walls? You just woodn’t.”
This is the best advertisement for the mod ever
Galu: OH! BORING! I HATE THE GAMEPLAY AS THE ORCS!
Eh, the mod will now excel without me. It doesn't matter what I say anymore.
@ What!!??
Arachîr Galudirithon That sounds like some kind of retiring statement, it may be true but everyone does their part in a team, you included, especially since you’re the head of it.
@@ayylmao575 right?
@ don't say this please. You always will be the soul of this mod, we love your videos, your storytelling and how you show, explain and tell everuthing about.
Fun fact: the weapon models ofthe orc maulers are from the RPG game Gothic 3
The armoury icon for some nations is a tower from spellforce (cant remember wich nation)
@@mcsmash4905 Man you are right, the dwarven armory is the human tower from spellforce. Damn
Haha yeah, I noticed it right away. Those orc halberds and the krush agash jagged axe.
"228 two damage arrows to you armourless chest" in other words getting boromired
I've been looking forward to this faction overview! Some of my thoughts on the campaign side of things:
12:00 - a minor one? :o Southron Lancers are such an important unit in the early game, I cannot stress enough how much of a difference one unit of Southron Lancers can make in any Mordor army! Same for the Lôke-Innas Rim in the late game!
13:55 - I like the idea of subjugating other evil factions, but wouldn't the AA approach work better than the ND approach? I don't think many snow orcs for example would voluntarily march south to serve Sauron. If you'd capture their territory however...
14:40 - Perhaps just a fleeting thought, but it might also be a nice idea to give Mordor a bonus for capturing Ost-in-Edhil, as capital of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain. Maybe an 'improvement' to the Ulairi rings that shorten their respawn timer from 15 to 10 turns?
14:50 - Something you didn't mention is that there is currently a bug with the ring if you try and claim it with one of the spawned in Nazgûl (so that's all the Nazgul besides Leofric), as they are unable to claim the ring (despite having space in their retinue etc.). So you either need to pick up the ring as Leofric or with an orc general. If I'm not mistaken the ring always starts (and stays) in Imladris when you're playing as Mordor. Seeing as that is a very tough fight, a human player would pretty much always use a Nazgûl commander who would then be unable to pick up the ring. I'm not sure if the bug could be fixed, but in the meantime there should be a message warning the player of this bug so as to not waste time capturing Imladris only for the one ring to teleport across the map.
Galu, I would recommend to give a Mordor campaign a playthrough. I'm currently doing a campaign on my channel and whilst I was a little bit hesitant at first (for the same reasons you mentioned). I've been having a blast! Mordor is one of those campaigns that start with defined goals and rewards. Defeat Gondor and your economy and army strength sky-rocket, reclaim the ring and you have Sauron the Chad leading your armies. Also with the 80 territory victory condition there is a sense of urgency and rapid expansion and you often end up fighting wildly different factions in very short timespans which require you to change up your strategy and tactics. It's quite exciting and despite my earlier hesitance, I've come to thoroughly enjoy Mordor as a faction.
I did not know there was a big with the nazgul.
@ I didn't know either until I ran into it :D I've posted it to the bug report channel, but I've seen Sol talk about it back in may.
@
I once said something about it in the testing-hall. Nobody reacted unfortunantly
That explains my problem. Ring went to Dorwinion, blitzed Caras Sant with the Witch King, no Ring and no new location for over 30 turns now...
The Ringwraiths which spawn in can neither get ancillaries nor traits. To fix it you can simply get the Nazgul killed once, after he respawns everything should work properly. Alternatively edit the script: I did a workaround by sending the Nazgul to the far south and just move them to mordor when they should.
One Nazgul spawns without black robes, I recommend fixing the corresponding entry in the descr_strat.txt.
It's funny how this is my favourite faction. Tastes differ so greatly and I think thats great that everyone can like something completely different. I mean lorewise Mordor is just asesome for me but even the roaster I enjoy greatly. Yes its all grey and dark but i mean... its the dark lord xD but you have orks, Uruks, Trolls, Great biests, Nazgul, evil Human - you have such a variety in races, specialites and creatures. Thats what i love most. Humans have humans, elves elves etc. but Morder lets ANYONE fight for them that submit to the dark lord - I think that feeling of evil variety is awsome :D
I really love and enjoying your work!! From korea
Ah, the Morannon guard. The bane of my heroic Gondor Cavalry Militia.
EDIT: based on people's feedback if you rush Gondor and cripple them, the campaign is a 1.
If you don't rush Gondor and go for a more passive playstyle, the campaign is a 2. My Mordor campaign was a 2.
The problem is that Gondor can absolutely roll you if you're not ready. Gondor's units completely outclass you, so you need to set up early game. You have to keep the pressure up on Gondor, or they will show up with multiple 30 stacks at Minas Morgul or at the Black Gate.
My advice? Abuse Ballista and Catapults, as your units are cheap and Gondor's units are tanky. Ballista just delete them tanky units, and collateral damage is not really a problem as Mordor.
If Khand turns against you, you're going to be attacked from both sides, making the campaign harder. Khands calvary are hard to deal with as your units are mostly infantry and you're going to have to chase the cavalry for awhile.
I wasn't prepared for a stack to come in the back at seregost with the blue wizard at all and it punished me really hard until I could respond to it. I totally agree with a 2 though. with such a drastic outclassing and how easy it is to turtle as mordor until you get your nazgul, Gondor can have an opportunity to build up against you, and if Khand comes knocking at the backdoor while dealing with Gondor it can be a struggle!
A lot of the difficulty indeed depends on the Istari choice. if Khand stays loyal Mordor is a 1 (if you're prepared for that first stack), if Khand sides with the Istari it quickly becomes a 2.
@@IzzyTotalWar I got a lot of my info for mordor from your current playthrough of it! Really enjoying the series :)
I just laid siege to cair androis, east osgiliath and ithilen in one turn. It traps gondors armies outside your lands for a few turns as you have time to take other settlements. It resulted in me taking both osgiliaths, cair androis and a few other settlements by turn 10 without any problems
@@devonkirk2483 glad you enjoy it Devon! :)
Faction overview time, best breakfast entertainment
The only difficult part of the campaign imo is the very first few turns where Gondor has an elite doomstack attack your mainly thrash units at Minas Morgul.
You really have to rush your few decent starting units to that location from turn 1.
Yeah I noticed this as well when I played as Mordor, Gondor just unleashes all of the best units they have in the first dozen or so turns, and then it becomes a doddle because they have to resort to spamming militia units to stem the tide.
Don't forget that Gundabad has a subjugation system over Orcs as well.
Khand. Because of the large amount of cavalry and the red and orange colouring of the soldiers armour.
Khandeeznutsfitinyoumouth
Hey I just wanted to say that you have done a fantastic job with this project! I was a hard MOS fan, but tried out DAC out of boredom and oh my! With v4,5 the mod is just miles away from anything else - 2 campaigns for 200+ turns and not a single crash! Not only you brought the mod to this stage, but v5 is in the works and the changes you would implement are fantastic! I think I'm a DAC fan now hah. A big big thank you to you as the mod head and to all other moders I don't know the names of! Cheers!
You could limit Orcish nations from building the largest buildable settlements (large city and stronghold) this would cause them to upgrade less settlements to crappy orc-camps and also allow non orcish nations that reconquer settlements from orc nations to upgrade them so they aren't perpetually stuck as crappy orc mudhut campsites.
This would also limit Mordor uruk stack spam lategame a bit as they wowouldn't be able to recruit their elites in quite as many places.
Maybe building the largest buildable settlements could be unlocked if Sauron reclaims the one ring and then make the largest settlements be a bit better buildt and more defendable since Saurons full control is now back.
This is the best suggestion 👌
But orcs do have big cities in the lore. The Hobbit mentions there being various orc cities in the Misty Mountains. Plus, why would reducing Mordor's access to its late-game units be a good thing? Without their uruks they'd still be pumping out crappy tier-1 and -2 orcs while Gondor's fielding high-end Numenorean units. It might make fighting Mordor less of a slog, but it's *Mordor.* Fighting your way through Sauron's hordes *should* be a slog.
Mordor, imo, is my favourite DaC faction, just because of how awesome the settlements are to defend, chiefly Minas morgul. They also have the most heated battles in the game, between Gondor and Mordor.
"what makes them stand out is that they do have a defence of four" Funniest line of the video :D
"Great Beasts are vulnerable to Pikes and arrow fire"
*Watches 6 units of Beruthiel Rangers and 1 balista fire at them and they refuse to die*
*Great beasts charge Ar-Pharazon pikes and Halberds they dissapear*
*Great Beast goes Brrrrr*
I absolutely despise great beasts
@@baeromir I nerfed their balista orcs on top.
I mean what the fuck those are Orcs they are chucking javelins not lightsabers.
Exactly! Arrows didn't do any damage for the great beast when I played and they ran through pike halberd and any units which were supposedly good against them. The only units which I've found effective against them were the javelin units.
Something I would like to see added would be a unique unit of a Grond like unit. Since can't have the actual battering ram maybe a unit that can represent it would be nice. Also having one of saurons inquisitors would be good fun, such as the Tower of Sauron at Durthang with Saurons Will as bodyguard unit
I absolutely love this mod, you guys are making a great job and I have been enjoying the narrative aspects of the campaign events more that any other total war so far.
I just wanted to comment a little thing about the woodland realm roster. I honestly would love to have the elite spearmen (or spearelves maybe?) because in Tolkiens works elves are many times said to wield spears (The battle of the five armies comes to mind) and it would be a welcome addition to the faction.
I've having quite a lot of fun with my mordor campaign because I went through the building file and have added a subjugation style script myself, getting most of the evil men units rosters (and all of units of the orc rosters, minus Isengard) in there home regions out of the different tiers of the temple building. Then going for a betray everyone and expand everywhere total conquest style after I got sauron.
I could share my export_desc_building and battle_models file if the modding team or anyone is interested
I would be very interested in this, my discord is omw2fyb#8144. :) or I can add your discord does not matter to me
@@chris-ke2dn cool I will get round to this soon.
I think I sent a discord friend request?
I have an idea for a sort of backstory for sauron’s bodyguard in that they are warrior-priests that tend to all of sauron’s dark chambers within barad-dur and preach his word to the servants of the eye, hope you find this interesting and helpful.
Don't worry cirith ungol the size of the region doesn't matter, it's the motion of the ocean
It's interesting because you always think of Mordor as an offensive faction (which they are ofc), but if things go awry they can always hold off enormous armies at the Black Gate and Minas Morgul, and those two choke-points protect all Mordor's vast lands and cities to the east.
Yesterday I've completed my first D&C domination campaign in under 250 turns. Mordor was really fun to play and the Nazgûl, especially with their D&C personalities, made for awesome stories along the way.
Thank you for this amazing mod and your great videos!
Existing settlements conquered by Orcs should maintain their existing defences, except they should look run down and corrupted.
On the other hand... the orcs of Isengard just blown the Wall of Helms Deep away with explosives... seams a very orcish way to get around stone walls given their description from Tolkien. So... maybe they whould not raze every bit of wall... but if they capture a city their whould be big holes in the wall.
We can't do that in Medieval 2, the culture system just doesn't work like that
Jannis Scholz ideally it would be cool if they could implement something similarly the sieged settlements from total war Attila. But I don’t think that’s possible on medieval 2.
Galu mentioned something like that , a while ago, but he said they would all look like Northmen Cities or something.
Having khand as an event like the mongols does sound pretty cool, imo
Have you considered filling the Mordor roster with a lot of highly specialized units. That way your armies can be really good if you properly prepare, but if you come up against something unexpected your army will get routed. It seems in character for Sauron to make his personal army roster extraordinarily overcomplicated and reliant on spying and pre-planning.
I would say that orcs can settle sometimes. Just look at the goblins in Moria and Goblin town. And then we have the fact that orcs lived in Mordor for thousands of years. I don't think ur entirely wrong however, and believes that Sauron dislikes when they settle and gets comfortable
Mordor is the best starting faction for newbies. It's fun taking over everything relatively quickly and you can easily recover from mistakes. The other factions are difficult and merciless when you make a bad move.
Idk. New players might get scared away/frustrated when they notice that their army of 3000 Orcs lost a battle for 600 shiny Boys.
If Mordor is so easy wouldn't it make sense to have the Ar'Ardunaim not start allied with them. It may be a small point in the grand scheme of things but I believe you yourself said the AA don't like Gondor or Sauron, so wouldn't it make sense to make them a truly neutral (or perhaps self interested is a better term) faction? Then instead of Harad and Khand putting a ton of pressure on Gondor and Dol Amroth from the south the AA might throw a wrench into things and disrupt your allies.
That could also add more gravity to Khand's potential betrayal, because if Harad is already pressured by the AA if Khand changes sides all the sudden you could have a massive problem on your hands in the south instead of a late-game inconvenience.
That is planned yes.
Basically Lord of the Rings gets turned into a story where Sauron, aside not being that much of a problem, big bad boss (and skilled at that, and more like the best at it really) and getting manipulated and cornered left and right by his subjects, is besieged, together with the whole evil threat and host shooting themselves in the foot and putting themselves in that position and breaking down before even commencing, but also without Gondor even having to do a thing at that, let alone the Elves and other free people ("by the blood of our people your lands are kept... always entertained with a good spectacle to enjoy, while we also participate, staring at the Evil Men fighting Evil before all of us, in the famous Harondor and eastern Mordor front, especially prioritizing it while we, Gondor the common enemy and goal, recover and prosper; please feel free to depart or chill around my elves, and Ishtari you can return to god, there's no mission to accomplish to begin with, especially the Blue Wizards are unemployed considering that Khand is apparently an enclave of virtuos Men before any influence on their part").
Completely quelled hope in any warrior of good and enemy at the gates? More like enemy slapped, who needs Gandalf and Aragorn, the Fellowship, the Ishtari to begin with and the whole world uniting together with god and the other fantastical creatures if the war can't even begin because Sauron gets turned into a cornered and irrelevant problem (just like the orcs and evil after the victory vs the whole congregation of them attacking and doing each their part to strike their first priority, to have then an actual chance of backstabbing Sauron the sole enemy in a ripe and prime condition), turning a scenario like the Battle of Minas Tirith into something completely unthinkable, together with the War of the Ring itself to begin with (an attack on East Osgiliath is completely unachievable if Mordor armies and the Nazgul are fighting and trying to eradicate their allies key for the Siege of Gondor).
As far as facts and those free people are concerned, Sauron can continue to live, sparing the bother of destroying the ring (the literal only way to win in every front and save the world vs Sauron and all the subjects under him, everyone of those, according to Tolkien), it's barely an annoyance in this work that uses just the original Lotr setting, the quest and Ring themselves turn into something weak and trivial considering that the threat is someone that really doesn't have a knack for swaying, manipulating and commanding a war (the War of the Last Alliance really took a toll on Sauron, he became the opposite of his supposed character and as relevant as a Goblin King, luckly he couldn't get his hands on the Balrog and Smaug... or they would've terminated him before his Dark Men subjects could), barely having success with the orc race elements in Mordor and keeping together something there.
@@dusk6159 Well its a good thing the mod team aren't writing a book otherwise those concerns would be valid. However, since they are making a game which is supposed to be fun and of an at least "Non-Trivial" level of difficulty, then I think giving sauron some trouble is fine.
Anyway wouldn't overcoming the free people as a well as quashing the last vestiges of your Numenorean pets as you lay waste to middle earth make your a more impressive threat rather than giving sauron training wheels and only have him combat opponents who never stood a chance in the first place?
@@donovanp5953 Absolutely fair point and agreed, of course, still (and with accuracy or even logical assumption aside already), there's the other side as well, Gondor, Dol Amroth, the whole Free People and so on.
They would be faced with then a doddle, something they didn't expect as well - you want to save Gondor and the world, maybe even go as far as putting yourself in the condition to get attacked and pushed even more maybe to even a-la Siege of Gondor and Minas Tirith? Nah, you can turtle or even cripple yourself all you want but you won't ever even see attacks because the East and evil forces are fighting themselves while you chill, and something like those battles would be unthinkable with a chopped force like that already so just remove all those ancillaries, Defender of the Pelennor Fields and whatnot because it's an entirely different Middle Eart and War of the Ring disposition and asset - etc etc.
In fact I would be actually asking for basically this whole other ''inaccurate'' War of the Ring scenario to be put together as another option with the original War of the Ring and Shattered Alliance because it's a nice gameplay-own fantasy scenario, though of course I'm not attracted to it very much myself, and the whole ''not making too much sense/breaking the parts, especially roles and then supposed situations of the whole factions'' of the move stops it even more for me to get into tweaking with it and enjoying - just as putting Dol Amrot and Rohan neutral with Gondor or the free people indifferent with themselves or the evil because of some needed artificial altering of difficulty because the Good nations are 0 difficulty for some misconception that would go away at the first try - , but I'd definitely like to have other people and tastes have this opportunity together with myself eventually, why not, but I don't know.... if it has to cost the standard stuff (and so the free people and specifically Gondor players too... well I guess the one who want challenge and some normal stuff, if you already want to rush Minas Morgul, no care for the setting and reasons you're playing with and into it and be even more happy that it's even more neutering of the campaign because you get handed of a scenario where there's no Corsair Invasions and Khand + the Corsairs have chances to fight Sauron - of course all with just their Evil's trash forces and no chance of reaching some competent barracks event point - to begin with then that's a style and will too) some big trouble and upheaval of the experience it looks not worth it.
And to after all just raise Mordor's difficulty (like it's even that no-brainer as the superficial and uneducated point of view would think at first to begin with, I don't think so at all, and I too don't play or cook with Mordor and the evil situation and action either, but I know that I would buy into a myth and 100% crash into the ground like anyone else if I thought that playing Mordor as the player would be some 0 level difficulty, the AI's Mordor or accurate/Lotr's Mordor experience, I would fail already at Minas Morgul let alone having not only the lack of two whole components but also warring or keeping them in check; and of course it's all thanks to the work of the modders for that, so already a work of change, ''nerfing'' and adaptation, just a well done, and plenty sufficient I would say, one and without messing around with other stuff, like a next thing you know the evil forces just consists of orcs - and of course that isn't already the case at all currently/canonically as always despite Galu himself grieving for that and wishing it could be like that, with not only all the accurate allies and subjects being there but also having the chance to recruit them and blend them in all your armies if you want, so I don't know where that already-never existing problem wish/idea came from but then doing all that stuff would definitely make that terrible scenario real and so self-defeat Galu's goal and hopes too for the variety-packed Mordor, the spearhead of all the evil under its banner as it's supposed to be and remain - , and they are fighting with the East as well) and changing your experience as Mordor and Sauron (so the whole point of it, its position, its story, the evil, orcs ordes, their weakness and strenghts etc etc) and testing to accomplish a will to turn it as some standard, maybe even underdog despite being the opposite, and venturing, even irrelevant to the story and Middle Earth instead of being a key and leading component, nation (or maybe something comparable to Bree or the Northern Dunedain) and goal despite turning upside down the whole thing and so breaking the actual overall balance? Again I don't know, I have my doubts.
I, but that's just my opinion again, if I wanted that, would just play as something that is supposed to be that, without breaking down the whole thing to adapt to my nice would-be scenario, and of course I wouldn't want Gondor to become some underdog (of course though Gondor would be closer to that already, Gondor is obviously a wounded and not favourite giant, main and leader, while Mordor is obviosuly all that but with the opposite of Gondor's status, so having the upperhand, being on the offense, the supreme leader, the time ripe for the goal and scenario of domination as wanted and planned since the beginning and all of that) and acquire the role of a Northern Dunedain either, regardless of good or evil Middle Earth's forces, or regardless it would be easier/harder to play as Gondor/Mordor, it would just shuffling the deck and game at random and for something already there (even completely, so the best, sensed and complete pace at least to me - because it goes all the way and doesn't break anything between the nations and situations of that scenario - , with the Shattered Alliances).
The true to lore red eye of Sauron on orc shields could be a way of adding a splash of colour to the otherwise grey and brown.
You should let Mordor build strongholds once Sauron has returned
Khand: exists. Arch: It’s free real estate
Are you....sipping tea during these videos? That would be the most brittish thing ever.
Correct me if I am wrong, but after Dol Guldur is defeated Khamûl spawns for Mordor with Temple Knights. If thas happens around trun 60 or so then you get two of those monstrous cavalry bodygaurds.
I personally don't see how people consider this the easiest faction. Gondorian units obliterate morder units
not when Gondor gets overwhelmed by your units
mordor is quantity over quality, gondor is mid between quantity and quality, dol amroth is quiality over quantity, and elves are just dam quality but few numbers
Maybe, if possible, you could have it that if you get the ring before all the nazgul have spawned you get all the remainging ones. Goven that your lore explanation is that Sauron send them out to search for the ring, it would make sense that he would recall them and use them as generals. Also its a fun reward for someone who manages to get the ring before turn 60
1. and you described it fine. I love covering the world in my tant lol
I havent played mordor since the Nazgul change (10 turns interval), but up until then it was a 1 and the easiest 1 in the game by a long margin. I guess this change holds them back a bit but i doubt it is big enough for the human player to make it a two.
Basically all you need is to get the initial Nazgul and gather a stack to attack Cair Andros and E.Osgiliath, holding them afterwards should be easy since there is literally no other enemy to bother you.
The whole thing boils down to how powerful the Nazgul ability is. I dont even talk about stacking them (that is like playing with cheats). Its so powerful that until baracks event a single good usage of the ability is enough to win Decisive victories with an orc nation on a regular basis. Its so powerful that until it changes Mordor can not be considered anything else but a 1 in any scenario (yes even khand turning good).
Your attacking armies always include a Nazgul and then you put a generic general in the castle/city to protect, when you have enough of them you usually keep one around important areas to make sure nobody messes with you. 3-4 (each with their own army, no stacking) are enough to have constantly on the offensive.
On top of that add the fact that you have only one bordering enemy at the start plus the extremely balanced and later on, OP roster you have (trolls and then beasts are GAME CHANGERS) and you can easily see why mordor is beyond any doubt a 1.
Mordor is not as weak compared to Gondor in terms of the post barracks units I would say, the weakness is only pre barracks, Uruk infantry with 8 attack and 16 defence basically are the same as gondor infantry with 8 attack and 19 defense, both uruk and Gondor archers have 5 missile damage, and Mordor’s elite infantry and cavalry options in the Temple units are superior to Gondor’s elites.
Mordor used to be a 1 before version 4 and they probably still are, but what makes them truly powerful is the Nazgul special ability, with which you can route most Gondor units. One full Gondor stack without a general against your full stack with 2 + Nazgul means you will melt them with ease.
What do people think about giving Mordor color to help them show up on the battlefield? Bloody red would match the theme of the faction and make their models much more distinctive and interesting.
Doesn’t look like the movies so no lol
Kinda like orcs mpre tbh, i get too attached when playing non-orcish factions thus makes me more reserved trying to preserve my forces. But for orcs i just go "FOR THE GOD EMPEROR" "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" lol
Totally agree, not that the orcs can’t be kinda cool in their own right but they are literally cannon fodder, they exist to die by the hundreds to thousands without it being a major blow to Sauron’s war effort.
One key argument for keeping khand is that the campaign playing as them is really fun and challenging, with the blue wizard script and the choice of good mixed in with an otherwise well protected region. While you won't see the AI much when playing as most other factions, it should still not be the deciding factor when evaluating their overall impact on the game. I figure Khand in many ways are the evil version of Ered Luin.
I started a Khand campaign and I hadn’t watched the overview from like 2.2 or whatever and I didn’t know every single settlement gets hit with a full stack.
It's normal that town dwellers would take stones from old town walls to build various other structures.
Man I miss the old woodland realm sword and spearman units.
Honestly if you want to make Kand a bit more interesting, maybe have them start out neutral like the player controlled AA? Given the bit with the Blue Wizards it seems there was enough goodness left in Kand even under Sauron's dominion to eventually defect, so starting them out on the fence rather than firmly in his camp would not be too great a stretch.
Furthermore it would provide for some more interesting gameplay in the region as Mordor, Rhun, and Harad now have a potential enemy at their back door. While a Kand player could indulge in either a complete cakewalk of a campaign by being evil or could have the ultimate hardmode and fight Mordor, Rhun, and Harad all at once.
So essentially Kand would be a bit like negaverse Ered Luin. They are in the opposite corner of the map, their easy mode is evil and their hard mode is good, and where Ered Luis is infantry focused, Kand is famed for its cavalry.
That is a good idea!
That is exactly what their script provides.
If there's a thing in dire need is factions (both good and bad) warring with their respective enemies and moving up with as much goals as possible, so I don't know about implementing the removing of the status of initial war between Gondor and their amrothiam Principality with own enemies and allied of evil like Khand and the Corsairs, and the same for Mordor but also in reverse.
The literal Dark Lord and threat of the world has already some snow rabble servant of his not actually being it for some reason and doing whatever they want and taking up their orcs at that again under the nose of the Two Towers, if you also take out more subjets and give him more threat in the beginning the opposite situation of that current Middle Earth would happen, with Gondor and the good nations chilling, having even the upper hand, or at least devoid of relevant pressure, and Mordor instead being besieged, his security and upper hand taken out and threatened even before the Blue Wizards and Dwarves of the Red Mountains play their relevant part in the war for their good side.
@ Yes, but the script is a mid game thing, this would move the point of decision up considerably. Which seems like it would solve what you are upset about, while the script does not.
18:52 Gothic 3 models, nice :}
sauron’s best stat is that their eyes glow
The Great Beasts come out of the Beast Pens that the Trolls come out of, so only mountainous regions and I've had Leofric get about 900 kills in Minas Morgul from that Doom stack Gondor get after the turn 1 auto expansion
Trolls aren't restricted to mountainous regions. They have their own hidden resource called trolls.
I love your work, I can’t wait to download DaC, however I feel I lot of good things could be added for Mordor making them better, I don’t know if you’ve ever played Shadow of War but they really bring out a new look on the lore of the Orcs, oh and I don’t understand why they can’t build walls whenever they have citadels in Mordor that they built. That just conflicts itself. Except of course just as a balancing thing, then I guess it makes since.
It took the orcs 600 years to build Barad dur and Sauron only finished it with the power of his ring.
Cirith Ungol, Minas Morgul and Durthang were built by Gondor. The black gate was only built with the power of the ring.
So no, orcs are actually terrible builders.
Installing it now. I intend to play hot seat and control multiple evil factions as once with Mordor as my primary so I don't mind if they are a bit dull
I believe the term for the "not-quite-trash" is tarpit.
Yes I have been eagerly awaiting this!
I may not say a 1 on difficulty, however I haven't played MED2 in quite awhile so I am out of practice. But at bare minimum a 2 or 2.5, Your units while maybe in bulk are incredibly weak and the slowed nazgul arrival promotes a turtle based playstyle until you get the full might of your nazgul. However economy is so incredibly easy to do with Mordor and you can flood units but your generals are fairly lacklaster so unless a nazgul is heading the army your trash is exactly that, trash. I am playing through the mordor campaign and I am having a lot of fun and getting temple units as well as the inquisitor really changed things up. You didn't mention it in the scripts section, But if Khand chooses to ally with good with the blue wizards you get the inquisitor and 2 temple units, But you soon after see a large army with one of the blue wizards which leads to a much harder fight at two fronts if you haven't blasted gondor out of existence.
A fun script would be if you hold certain regions and are ally to certain evil facions you will eventually get some free units in those regions for free, it would make more sense for allyng the evil factions
I think for a good players it's a 1, maybe 1,5 or 2 if Khand join Blue Wizards and fight well against Harad, Ered Luin stay good and beat Angmar and other good nations win over their evil opponents. Then it's only more regions to capture with endless waves of orcs. Nazguls can single handly win battles with their temple bodyguards and shrieks of terror.
for me mordor is a easy 1, i think about offense 100% in my campaign i never let the enemy hit the ugly settlements only on custom ones. send scouts to check on harad/khand early as you secure the eastern borders if they need help rush in and take some settlements to then gift either harad/khand if they dont i take both side of osgiliath and cair andros whenever possible (before barracks event). to avoid rohan from being annoying i block the passage between the river of 2 kings statue.
the temple units is no joke those guys are beast and in the right hands they are elves and dwarves killer my only grievances are that they are rare while playing as a good nation you feel blessed that they are rare.
man i thought mordor suck or i suck playing as the evil nation but nah playing as them is just as fun as playing gondor (the best nation out there!) possibly in gondor you play abit more defensively in the early game ie beating rebels in your county but mordor you just straight attack and after awhile once you have solid economy even the elves would be no match for both nations as you pump out troops. i think im going to play as them again soon and definitely the faction that i would play first when the newer version arrive.
I really like Sauron as a really strong battalion, instead of one single unit. I think, it works much nicer with Medieval 2.
Also to be honest, in my opinion Oliphants could be stronger, it is what makes Harad unique. Maybe something like an armored oliphant, that has no archers on his back, as an additional unit would bring more flavor to them. I have them only in my army because I love them from the movies :D
I think doubling or tripling their hp points would be “okay” in helping them, it’s just so unfortunate that their hitboxes are so large, there’s really nothing you can do when you have 152 8 dmg javelins hitting them.
- you can’t really balance them either because doubling or tripling hp kind of helps javelins but if you don’t have javelins then you’re absolutely fucked.
when playing as mordor, and having made it stronk, I always wish I could change to playing some other faction and try to free middle earth from this evil mighty empire :(
Minor point but when playing as Mordor and Khand joins the blue wizards, you Ancantar.
PLEASE SAVE THE BEST (Isengard) FOR LAST!!
Im curious to see how theyd handle the bright lord of mordor if they decided to pick him up from the shadow of war as a faction.
Considering its just celedumbo stealing from saurons army, itd probably just be a rebel event.
would be cool
would be cool
Arachir, is there a way for me to remove artwork from the loading screen lineup? I ask for the purpose of removing the Ungoliant art, as I'm a huge arachnophobe and I get panicked every time Ungoliant appears on my screen. I've taken to not looking at the loading screens at all to reduce the worry, but I do still want to enjoy the art that doesn't feature a giant spider, as it's really good and interesting. I've found where I think the loading screen files are, but there's no indication which is the Ungoliant art.
I did some research in the files and I have found one artwork featuring sauron and a giant spider, not sure if it is the one you are talking about. They are next to two elven trees. That would be Loading_screen_7
It might not be sauron lol, but kinda looks like him
okey now I found another one. Loading_screen_143. This one has Shelob and sam in it, very scary actually lol.
@@kraven8915 got it
Kinda cringe dude
I love Khand. I do miss the old "Brotherhood" naming convention for their elite tier units, I thought it was much cooler than the Warlord's names. A lot more mystique.
I know it's forever ago now, but in the off chance anyone sees this. If you break your alliance with rhun or harad but destroy the faction can you recruit their units again? I thought I remember that being a thing but I'm not sure.
As we all know the ships used to cross the Anduin were mercenary cogs
For difficulty, I'd say Mordor is a solid 2. You can still swarm and overwhelm Gondor in terms of numbers, but the stack of Fiefdom units that spawns in at the start of the game can be a serious roadblock until you can whittle it down, plus every turn you take to beat that army gives Gondor more time to pump out armies of their own forces. Plus, the Blue Wizards can seriously throw you off if you aren't expecting an enemy to appear behind you.
I'm defending off Mordor and Isengard in two orcencampments. Without dwarven steel, courage and artillery, it would be impossible...
Mordor is pretty easy, though you can't overrun gondor very early. So i guess the early game can be pretty intersting, but once minas tirith falls, and you defeat the stack that spawns, once you do, its pretty much a snowball from there
I would love to see a Mordor campaign!! Much appreciated!! Love the work you do!
I love your work and can't wait to play it someday. unfortunately for me is that I don't have a windows computer.
You are getting a lot of units from Khand Rhun and Harad, also trolls great beasts nazgul black numenorians etc etc... You haven't played them at all and you comment on their gameplay. They are really fun and waay more diverse late game than you think.
Correct. The orcs roster is limited but with haradrim and khandish units avaible from the beginning and of course the nazguls they become a complete nation.
You are right. I should stop doing these shouldn't I.
@ no, the reviews are important and you can't play all factions or like all factions. You said what you think of Mordor in the video, and what would you expect a campaign with Mordor would be. In this case some people have different feelings at play as It, it's normal.
@ I meant as in you slag them in every overview, but as a matter of fact they are a fun nation to play as and they aren't all uruks and low tier orc trash, there are a lot of unique great units in there and late game they are all readily available, it's not like you have 1 saurons will and 1 troll every second army, you can recruit full stack of aor units in like 3-4 turns.
I just started Khand a couple of hours ago.
what is that beautiful song playing in the background?
How do you mod the beast box or whatever it was you called it?
Finally!
Whooooo!!!! At last, after so much time, I guessed correctly! Yes, Khand will be the next faction! Youpi!
PS: Has Galu passed the stats of the archers? I missed how many missiles they have and their range. If yes, then that's me and the fact I'm tired from work...
Orcs being so incompetent is annoying and stupid because it's not even canon. Orcs and goblins are meant to be nearly as clever and skilled as Dwarves at mining, building, engineering etc. The only thing Tolkien said against them is that they are lazy, but they use slaves to work for them instead. So really their buildings should maybe cost more but not be worse. I've always despised this aspect of the mod and is a big detraction from the orc nations. People don't want to play as this nation of shit eating hovel dwellers. So repeat after me:
Orcs 👏 are 👏 not 👏 incompetent
Orcs aren't incompetent but on the topic of buildings, as I frequently point out to others, it took 600 years to build Barad-dur. By comparison, it took the numenoreans less than 100 to build ALL of these:- Osgiliath, Minas Ithil, Annuminas, Fornost, Minas Tirith and Amon Sul. Cirith Ungol, Durthang and Minas Morgul weren't built by Orcs, they were built by Nums. Sauron only finished Barad-dur and the Black Gate using the power of the ring.
In the first age, Angband was delved by Morgoth's world shaping power and the orcs had nothing to do with it. isengard was built by Numenoreans as well.
Give me even a single shred of evidence that suggests Orc were good builders and I'll consider changing that aspect of them.
Turning to warfare, Tolkien writes himself into a whole here because on the one hand, Orcs are described as capable fighters and they do win many victories. Howeevr Tolkien also frequently writes of how they are slaughtered in the thousands in most battles. Consider Hurin, one man slew over 70 orcs by himself. Boromir is said to kill 24 before he was slain. So, we have made Orcs stronger than goblins but still weaker then men who frequently slap them up and down Middle-earth in the past 9000 years.
@ Wasn't Barad-Dur much larger than Minas Tirith? Despite the time it took to make, it was still an incredibly large size that'd be impressive to make even today. And besides, the time it took would point to the laziness of the orcs rather than their skill? Seeing as they were still able to build it, it just took ages to do so.
Personally I think the subjugation idea sounds good but I think you should be able to recruit human units from good factions aside from the Dunedain because even though he’s the big bad there are always people who will side with evil either to survive or because they’re also evil
Too bad the game engine can't do flying units.
the orc maulers or whatver have weapons that look like halberds and axes that the orcs use in gothic 3
As Bree i get third tier of Merchants Guild, so it seems i'm lukcy
If I could make a small suggestion/critisism. I played a campaign as Mordor and was unable to beat the campaign as Gondor had taken Gobel Tolfalas and no matter what I did, I couldn't hire a mercenary cog to get to them. Perhaps you could allow Mordor to train a very simple, expensive, easily defeatable ship only out of Pelargir? Essentally just something that would act as a ferry, as it can be game breaking to not get ships. Thoughts??
Hey, I love the mod! I’m just wondering, who should I reach out to if I want to help out with development? I’m a trained vocalist and I’ve extensively studied classical Semitic languages, and I’d love to help you guys with some new voice files for Ar Adûnaim, Harad and maybe the Easterlings.
When you're discussing the orc settlements and why it is weird that they'd capture a strong place with high walls, only to knock it down and stay in a poxy camp, could this be solved by a custom battle-map? That could probably be way too much work for not much point but I'm thinking of just one or two 'generic' custom battlemaps of a walled settlement/castle with a bit of a ruined look, but still with usable walls? Not having any idea how much effort goes into something like this I'm probably asking a lot.
Mordor is fairly easy because of geography the only downside is that it will take time to bring higher quality units to the front to replace the inevitable losses. It's easy to blitz gondor early but when the scripts start going into effect and gondor musters it's other armies a lot of fortunes can be reversed. overall the campaign is a middling difficulty before you get good units and gets easier over time with notable difficulty spikes against the elves.
I mean you start at an earlier date than the actual war of the ring, so makes sense that you have inferior armies and Gondor was a bit more stable.
@@joevenespineli6389 obviously and it delivers the fantasy of Sauron gathering his armies for his push against middle earth. I was just giving my two cents on the difficulty because as a long time mordor player I can say that they are not that difficult they are just annoying until the ball really gets rolling.
@@joelmaynard5590 Ah alright then
Good points, and that's why indeed an early starting date isn't bad (also it doesn't take out the fact that also all the elves, and then some, should be a war with Mordor).
What happen if I captured all regions of mordor? mordor and sauron just destroyed without ring?
8:08 'Gothmog was th lord...' That's bugging me.
Ah, Orc Maulers, nothing can stop a full stack of those, not even the High Elves with their pointy ears and fancy armour.
Dol Goldur has a similar unit but much tougher, essentially a post BE Orc Slayer. I think its called Uruk Reaver?
I still don't understand why Sauron is a bodyguard unit.
He isn't in the campaign.
@ But in battles, he also appear as a bodyguard. That needs to be fixed. In my opinion, Third Age 3.2 is the best of all.
@@rafaelambrosini7562 He is a general.
@ Ok, but he appears AT THE BATTLES like a bodyguard. So, that needs to be fixed. If that is fixed, I will play DaC instead of 3.2. :D
@@rafaelambrosini7562 That isn't a bug, it is intended that way. Enjoy 3.2.
I have an innocent enough query. In regards to a comparison between say Black Uruks and Gondor Infantry, is the distance so considerable? My cursory glance of either unit begs the question simply because it's a difference of 3 defense between the two. Is that a considerable difference?
Is it traits, availability, abilities, tier, or other qualities that grant such a significant difference? I take no umbrage with the postulation that Gondor Infantry is superior, it's more or less a matter of curiosity. Gondor Infantry are a /solid/ unit. Given they're not even the best of what they have to offer- and that they can be upgraded so considerably in their armor, it's not that I think Gondor is underpowered. They might do with some stat tweaking just to distinguish them as a considerable step up from most everything Mordor has to offer, as I see much of the difference between Gondor's militia tiers/fiefs and Mordor's comparable tiers of units.
Yet I've mostly played the Northern Dunedain, and only tweaked them insofar that it satisfies my sense of flavor. I'd likely do the same to Gondor if I felt so inclined.
Does anyone know a way to remove "Legio XV Barad-Dur" etc from the unit descriptions? Really immersion breaking for me
in export_descr_unit file on the line "attributes" if unit has "legionary_name" as an attribute, it also has "Legio .. " if I am not mistaken.
You didn’t cover the Minas Morgul invasion script. I would also like a bit more specific information on how the ring/return of sauron script works. Thanks!
The ring will spawn, you get it with a general and bring it back. Sauron spawns.
There is no minas morgul invasion.
I’m playing as Mordor right now and attacked the settlement with the ring in it. Have stayed in it for 2 turns, how long will it take for the script to start kicking in? Regarding Minas Morgul, I was attacked by a Gondor army made of of mostly different fiefdom units during the first couple of turns. So was Izzy in his Mordor campaign on YT. Is that not scripted?
Hi. Not sure this is the right way to express my thoughts, but i couldn't find any other way to contact you. So, when you play as Mordor and you manage to claim the One ring you get a kind of double Sauron situation: one leads your armies and one other acts like the pope in the base game. In my opinion that should be changed, cause it may lead to ridicolous situations like being "excommunicated" apparently by the same guy who is supposed to be your own faction leader. In my opinion it would be cool, and maybe more correct lorewise, once you claim the one ring, to have your faction behave like the papal states would in the base game or, at least, to have your faction's relationship with "the dark lord" locked at perfect. I think it is weird to have Sauron leading your armies but not being able to call an invasion because your relationship with Sauron is not good enough. How could Sauron be unhappy about how himself behaves? Hope this can help. Well done for the mod anyways: it is really well done, very replayable and lots of fun.
Hi Galu; I’d like to ask: where I can go for reporting a bug? (Never have to do it so I don’t know)
I think there's a place on the discord to do so
@@Syvarris232 Correct, there is a channel named dac_bug_reports where you can submit your bug reports.
Thank you guys
ITS HERE EEEEE