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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2024
- Flooded: Buffy The Vampire Slayer 6X04 Reaction
#buffythevampireslayer #reaction #dakara
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With regard to Willow, do you remember the dream sequence in the Season 4 finale in which someone tells her to take off her costume, and there she is once more dressed as she was in Season One (opaque white tights and grey dress from Sears) giving a book report in front of her class in Sunnydale High? After she started to become cooler, to the outside eye, she's always been insecure, always been afraid that really, deep down, she is the helpless nerd that she started out as. And now, when she has literally raised the dead, when she feels that finally she might be transcending her original lowly status in the most spectacular way possible, an authority figure whom she deeply respects suddenly appears and seemingly attempts to drag her back down into her pit of self-doubt. Not even this Messiah-level act of power is enough to vouchsafe her the respect and the inner peace she craves. It's no wonder she flipped out for a minute. So, yes, that was very much the real Willow.
Willow believes she's better than everyone and expects everyone to acknowledge it. It's why she likes Xander and Tara - because they put her on a pedestal.
A "place somewhere in the middle" was a way to reference the Buffy show being sold and moving from the WB Channel (CW now) to the UPN channel (no longer exists). It was a sort of agreement by the two networks to acknowledge both the Angel show and Buffy show are still connected but not actually coming out and saying they are not on the same channel anymore. Sounds silly but it was very contentious at the time.
Dude, as actual research would show the WB and UPN MERGED to create the CW. C, as in CBS (also see Viacom) which owned Paramount, the P in UPN, and W as in Warner, the W in Warner Brothers. Don't you just love how, in the age of information at your finger tips, people still don't do actual reserch but prefer to spread misinformation or disinformation? I know the life is absurdist in me does.
Spider-Man doesn’t charge people.. but he does monetise his battles by selling photos to the Daily Bugle. Just saying.
Buffy is definitely NOT okay, but she's pretending as hard as she can right now. Willow is still riding the confidence high from bringing Buffy back, because she'd never say that normally.
Xander absolutely loves Anya, but his examples of marriage were Joyce, who was divorced, and his alcoholic parents who fought all the time - and now that the idea of actually being married to Anya, for real, is making him afraid that they'll end up like his parents or divorced - so if he puts off announcing it to everyone else, it still isn't quite real yet.
Willow is arrogant in being powerful and willfull with her magic. She has never really worried about the consequences, she's hyper focused on "how can I use this power to make things better" - where "better" means more to her liking. She's always viewed things primarily through the lens of how they affect her. She usually has good intentions...but... she's somewhat selfish.
It's ok for your favorite character to have flaws.
Mook
noun: mook; plural noun: mooks
a stupid or incompetent person.
"if you don't want to look like every other mook you need a sartorial trademark"
7:04 Buffy:”Giles are you miserable about or just really British?”
😏 The look Dakara had when that line was said is priceless.😂
I see a lot of people that dont like the turns of this season, but for me its brilliantly acted and written, its like you said, human, relatable, the three last season will ramais the best for me always. Its like one huge season.
I'll just come out and say it, I love you. The way you show your emotions when one of these scenes affect you, shows a great deal of...something. I wish I were that way. Willow and Giles coming to metaphoric blows is telling. Magic has a price, and Giles knows it; but Willow hasn't reached that place. Doctor Strange would think "Great potential, but lacks discipline.".
Not a spoiler but, there is a scene in this season that made one of the actors go to therapy, it was so shocking to film for that actor, that that person started to see nightmares, and feel ill Also, this season made many buffy verse fans angry, hate the show. I loved this season, my favorite.
and honestly, i don't understand why so many fans hate this season..
I'm with you.
Not only do I love the season, but that particular scene was imo one of the most important scenes of the entire show.
Spoilery mentions to follow:
And I strongly disagree with many people's take from it (compare Seeing Red to Smashed. Violence and sex and a mutually toxic situationship resulted in a moment of REAL horror)
As Spike later opines... why DIDN'T he do it. He's done much worse in his hundred years plus... and yet he has been changed, and he WANTS to change)
I think a literal reading of the situation is obviously unforgivable. But if we interpret all things in fantasy (and within the Buffyverse) literally... a LOT of characters would be unforgivable. Including Buffy, as she says herself, her choices this season are "killing her" (but I'd particularly point out Xander's inadvertent roofie spell, Faith's assault/rape of Xander AND Riley, Willow essentially raping Tara by altering her memory to escape the consequences of a disagreement, Buffy sexually assaulting and physically beating Spike during their relationship multiple times etc)
So, we should consider things more allegorically.
And in that framing, we can see Buffy and Spike as a mutually toxic and violent partnership that are hurting each other regardless of the love and passion.
That they need to heal before they can do better.
That intentions and past behaviour/consent do not entitle people to anything.
I think these are very much things that are essential to learn, and I think Buffy really does a good job of conveying the lessons, even if some people get hung up on gender politics.
The last time monsters attacked the house was Glory -- and that was so traumatizing it put Buffy in a catatonic state.
Now she fears for Dawn and the monster comes back for round two on her home turf. She does something uncharacteristic -- she beats it to death in the basement, taking out her anger and frustration on it. Giles decides uncharacteristically to be a scold to Willow and Willow does not react characteristically either, in fact threatens Giles, sort of. Even Anya is mad at Xander, for things she wants. The three geeks, Jonathan, Warren, and the other guy are fighting each other as well, over what they want. Anger about not getting things they want from others is called being petty -- and they all were. Spike seemed only to want to be around Buffy, not demanding anything at all -- weird because he is usually the totally selfish one. But he sacrificed himself when Glory tortured him for her, and he would do it again. He even hung around while she was dead protecting Dawn. They are kind of ignoring Tara, and she probably prefers not to have the drama.
"Did you know this place is flooded" - Spike 😂 I do love Giles Response to Buffy returning I know you are almost done with Buffy on Patreon now but looking back all the signs were there as a Wise green thing once said "Fear Leads to Anger Anger leads to Hate Hate Lead's to Suffering" Insert Darkside theme for Willow 🎵 Stay awesome Dakara 🤘
Season 6 is a rollercoaster of a season. Willow definitely ignores the negatives of magic and has since the early seasons. I think part of that is because she has not experienced negative consequences for her magic. I remember watching that kitchen scene between her and Giles when it aired and was wondering what was happening to Willow. On another note, as I have gotten older and rewatch these episodes, there is one thing about the scoobies that irks me. At this point, Buffy has been back for a few weeks and they are like hey these bills are due, what are you gonna do about it? Willow and Tara are living there with Dawn and it is never mentioned how they contribute financially. This is a constant theme for the scoobies (mostly Willow and Xander) where they expect Buffy to act a certain way and whenever she deviates from their expectations, they lash out. Buffy has her faults, but she accepts her friends as they are and sometimes I feel they do not do the same for her. And Buffy feels that way too as seen when she is telling Spike that she has to act fine about being brought back from the dead so as to spare her friends feelings.
THIS! And so many people go with the “they’re in college” excuse. Ok but they’re LIVING there for FREE. Reallocate the money going to UC Sunnydale dorms to the house. Someone living there could at least get a part time job and help out. But no, instead they use what’s left of Joyce’s life insurance 🙄
only took 6 years for the real willow to speak
We've seen this Willow before. Oh only glimpses but thse attributes always existed.
I never liked so much Willow, this confirmed.
@@DaDungeYup. Many think this came out if nowhere, but the signs were there for a long while.
@@seaminer5894I'm not a big willow fan either. The character. The actress is great.
@@volourn9764 Yes Allyson is great.
I feel like Xander and Anya are both entitled to feel how they feel. I kind of see where Xander's coming from. Last season both him and Anya I think were deeply affected by Joyce dying and trying to save the world. It would make since for Xander to have a "why wait life is short" momentum (Buffy's philosophy), but after she dies it might be difficult to "be in the spirit" so to speak. None of which Anya really understood because she's just not as close to any of them. They're not her friends, they're his. And Anya being Anya kinda struggles with that awareness anyway so she couldve been harping on about this all Summer. And now we can see how to Xander it can feel like "whats the rush?" - Especially when your best friend csn just bring people back from the dead.
In case; it definitely starts to look like Anya has the preoccupied/anxious attachment style and Xander has the avoidant attachment style. They both trigger each other to double down on their behavior. So he's not entirely to blame here. And kind of like you said Xander might have wanted to draw this out and take his time with an engagement only to realize that maybe Anya's not willing to go at his speed. During the course of their relationship Anya has generally been rushing to get to the next step which I think might have something to do with Anya kinda of being more childlike - wanting what she wants but not knowing why. There seems to be a bit of an imbalance too with Xander always having to be the one to think about practical matters or consquences whether its with Anya or Willow because he's the more human member of the group.
That all be said he may also be avoiding because he does have cold feet and thats got to be hard for both of them too. In my opinion, I think he still loves her as much as when he proposed, but should it really suprise us if a 20-21 year old gets cold feet or feel like its a bit too much too soon? Maybe Xander got swept up in the moment when he proposed, luke Anya thought? But even then, I dont think he could have had those feelings and emotions if he didn't love her. Sometimes we just get that spark of confidence and them the momentum passes 😕 it sucks for both of them, but yeah I also feel bad for Anya since she's having to just put up with what ever excuse she gets and doesnt doesnt seem to be getting the tull picture.
As Joss told us before this season began the overarching theme---though not the only theme or motif--of season six is "Oh grow up"...So, beware of jumping to conclusions...As for commodification, I love me some commodification and I love me some fetishisation of commodification....It is a sign of the times...
Speaking of chargeing for doing the right thing...Giles should charge for training Buffy between when he was fired and rehired, with retroactive pay...The Scoobies should charge for aiding Buffy in her fight against evil...the Xandman, in particular, should get a bonus for saving Buffy. Perhaps the Dusk Musk could pony up some dough...Spike should charge for his help...They, the Scoobs, Giles, and Spike, of course, could always unionise and go on strike until their demands are met for payment for services rendered...Buffy could always go on social media and leverage her reactions for monies from "patrons" and she could sell merch at her site like Buffy kicks arse tees and replica Mr. Pointy's
Spider-Man profits off of it by taking pictures and selling them to the Daily Bugle.
Come on, Xander! Get your head in the game! 🙄
Mook: A foolish or contemptible person. It is an old term used in the 30s and 40s. If you watched some old movies with low-life criminals and mobsters you might hear the term.
The Bowery Boys I believe used it. I think I remember Mickey Rooney using it when he was younger in some movies.
On Willow's attitude in this episode:
It's true that we've never seen her act that way to the Scoobies, but I genuinely think it's very much in keeping with her character.
From the VERY earliest we learned that Willow can be stubborn, aggressive and mean... when she wants to be. In Season One, we saw her shut out Buffy and react very poorly to her concerns when she was online dating. We know she can be fierce and take the lead (telling off Giles and Angel in Reptile Boy for example) and she really does have a darker streak when she feels warranted (misguiding Cordy and Harmony to delete their work on the computer)
Those are interesting points to make. I'm not sure if I fully agree though. This seasons Willow has felt different to me than other seasons, so I might have to sit and think about it🤔
As someone who's struggling with self-image and self-worth, I relate a lot to Willow. But I think a lot of people also ignore that, though Giles is right with his concerns and the warning he gives her, he is way out of line in how he talks to Willow. I would not let someone talk to me that way either.
Does that mean I think Willow's reaction is okay? Of course not. But I think people cut Giles a bit too much slack as well because we're supposed to think he's all-knowing and always right. He's not. He makes mistakes too, and the fans kind of gloss over it.
You know what with Willow I think... well actually maybe with this whole season. Rather it was right or wrong. Regardless of what the consequences are, I think the issue. Or perhaps the larger theme, is one about consent.
Yes. It was Willow.
Great double drop of Buffy/Angel eps today. Nice analysis of the ep/season so far with the characters views of the events that have transpired so far and where it might go as there are more reality based monsters for Buffy to deal with (unexpected house repairs and the like). Interesting scene between Giles and Willow and her attitude with what she did bringing Buffy back (but at what cost?) and shows the increasing attitude change regarding magic that has been growing and was clearly seen in S5 (giving Dawn the info to bring her mother back, and Tara being concerned about her attitude/powers). As for the new supervillion goofballs.... definitely a letdown after the awesomeness that was Glorificus... Great reactions as always, D and you get the 2 CTU's from me today... Keep em coming!
I never understood why if the Watchers Council pay Giles to be Buffy's watcher, why they wouldn't pay Buffy.
Power and control.
Cause the Slayer is meant to depend on the watcher for her upkeep. That keeps the slayer under the watcher's thumb.
They won't pay for her house because slayers aren't meant to have possessions of their own, they are meant to be raised, fed,clothed, and been given a roof over their head by the watcher's council.
Dude, Buffy has a calling. She is not an employee of a corporation in the capitalist and everything is a commodity sense.
@@wolandbegemotazazelloShe "has a calling," so she's exempt from having her basic human needs met? Sorry, but that's the silliest thing I have read all week.
@@kenmcauliffe3028
First off I am simply making an empirical observation about one of themes theme of the Buffy. There is a difference, though I am not sre you get this, between describing what is (ontology) and normative moralising (this is what I want it to be). That polemics and apologetics, while typically humon, is one of the silliest, if not unsurprising things I have ever heard. and heard and heard
Secondly, and here I suppose we move to a more normative if still empirical level, I dig your dismissal of the history of the monkly life, the traditiional life of a calling. But then clearly you can't conceive of an existence outside the socially and culturally constructed modern bureaucratic society box you have been socialised for conformity into.
But back to scientific and empirical facts again, Buffy is playing with the hero's journey theme in myth, literature, and film. See Joseph Campbell's book on the subject. As you can probably tell, I prefer getting the facts right before going into pontificating mode.
Willow and Tara should be paying rent IF they still want to live in Buffy's house. It was one thing when they were taking care of Dawn, but now they're not. Being college students isn't an excuse. (Buffy should just sell the house or maybe rent it out, and get a two bedroom apartment for her and Dawn.) Buffy and Xander could fix the plumbing together, it's not rocket science. There are plenty of books and videos, plus Buffy is more than strong enough to do the work. With plumbing it's the labor costs, the materials usually aren't the expensive part..... Giles has always tried to limit Willow's magic use and she's tired of it.
3 more episodes 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
I never understand why willow and tara don’t help buffy with the money problems! They live in buffy house for free
And due to Angel & Buffy being on different networks, we never get to see this Buffy/Angel reunion...
Being on different networks was not what stopped it, the way that FOX moved Buffy from The WB to UPN was what cause The WB to outright refuse to allow it.
🤐
Omgggggg hellooooooo 😁
Does anyone else think Dakara kinda looks a bit like young Christina Ricci?
Yeah, Buffy might really open up for Spike
One thing that never made sense in Buffy at this point: WHY THE HELL DOESN’T THE COUNCIL PAY THE SLAYER A SALARY!!!! What, only Watchers do any work??? Complete BS.
Yeah, it's all patriarchal. The (usually male) watcher provides for the younger slayer.
Weapons don't need money
If you have one person in an extremely well funded international business that the entire company rests on, they better be paid Fing well.
@@caitlin329So it is Giles' fault? He did not get the memo and uses all the money he received for alimenting the slayer for his own private enterprises like opening a supernatural local business.
My main issue is: Fans say Willow and Tara should contribute more financially.... why is nobody saying that GILES should be contributing? He literally got paid a shit-ton of money thanks to Buffy, then continues to get paid after her death because nobody knows she died. :D
I always found myself on the side of Anya in the argument about Buffy being paid for her services. Ideally, the council should be paying her.
the world should pay her
I love me some commodification and love me even more the fetishisation of commodities.
Always annoyed me how everyone hates on Anya in that scene. And the Council should totally be paying Buffy - they have literal alchemists ffs!
the usualy realtionship would have them paying for everything she needs and not anythin else. Remember she's suposed to be raised by her watcher, they are supsoed to give her a roof over her heard, keep her fed, clothed and so on. The council won't give a slayer money, because they don't see the slayer as a person.
@@mjtpli If they asked the council the council would probably be more than happy to cover Giles expenses for givign Buffy roo and board but they won't give money to Buffy because a slayer is a tool not a a person.
Peter parker takes pictures of himself and sells them. I agree with Anya
Flooded was interesting episode, in that we now see how Buffy has to cope with being an adult and all that pressure that comes with paying bills etc. A bit of a ropey plot, with the irritating ( at this point ) Trio now introduced, and as if Buffy didn't have enough to cope with she now has these goons messing with her. The standout and very telling scene of course is the conversation with Willow and Giles which takes a very dark turn. Another thing which is strange is that Willow and Tara just living there rent free, surely whatever income they could contribute. A trivial point I know its just strange that everyone is just piling in there.
It's always interesting that Anya is not only shot down, but critisized for exactly what Angel does in LA before Xander tries, and fails, to smooth talk the situation away. Anya's right when she tells Xander to grow up. At best the council should be paying, and at worst how Angel does things is not a bad idea if Willow and Tara aren't going to be paying rent. Going to school is not an excuse. Kids in school get jobs all the time. It's sad the core group don't see that. This is just another reason this season's theme is the failure to grow up.
Willow and Tara should be paying to live in that house; but their job is school and their second job is helping out Buffy, leaving them very little time for an actual job
@@colleenmarin8907 Xander has time for construction, and before you say he doesn't go to school, Buffy had to drop classes for Dawn after Joyce died. If they cannot drop classes for rent it's just another factor in the failure to grow up theme of the season. They should either not be going to school or living in dorms if they cannot pay rent (that could also leave room for a tanant to pay. It would have have to be someone veted to know about the mystical, but it would be something better than the no income situation Buffy has in this episode, which was the point). I get it's a sucky situation all around, but considering the situation, the harder choices have to be thought about, and the group dismissed the easiest one coming from Anya.
@@Buffy8Fan
I don't think Anya's idea is "easy"
Who would her customers be? People aren't buying "demon insurance"
She doesn't really want to advertise herself either. "secret identity" and all that.
Obviously, the lack of Council funding is absurd, given Buffy's importance, but that is certainly a choice made to serve the stories that writers want to tell, rather than making sense within the lore.
And I think that is largely the reason the others are deadbeats.
Not as some commentary on their characters, but rather bc it doesn't serve the story they want to tell of Buffy getting to grips with adulthood in a way that is relatable to many young people leaving home.
That feeling of isolation, or feeling that pressure placed on you by others, or that your situation is unique... these are extremely common. People don't feel your pain bc they're too busy with their own (to quote Buffy herself :P)
While I do love the "heroes for hire" trope (I loved it on Angel, and I loved it in Jessica Jones and Luke Cage :P) I don't think there's anything wrong with portraying self sacrifice and public service as high ideals.
@@DmGray I didn't say Anya's idea was easy, I said the easiest idea was the hero for hire idea. At least compared to the outcomes of all the other idea or how other idea would need to be set up. The whole point is that none of its easy.
Every choice made by all characters in all pop culture serves the purpose of serving the story, even if it doesn't seem so (even if it's just there for character development).
I understand the point. I stated it in describing the theme of the show. I never said there was anything wrong with the story about "portraying self sacrifice and public service as high ideals." My point was that none of that means The Scoobies didn't have options they dismissed, weren't thinking of, and didn't do when it should or could have been done.
@@colleenmarin8907 I agree with u if this was real life but I think the storyline was that Buffy had to struggle with real life money problems. Them all having jobs would negate that. The suggestion is Tara and Willow are still in school.
Judging by the Spike and Buffy scene you may think that the plot likes them. But that's a strong misconception. Unfortunately.