Back when it aired, there weren't any subtitles, but the sound was still there, and the movements were very unmistakable, and I was like (surprised Pikachu face)!!!
I love how smart Spike is. Sure, he's impulsive, emotional, manipulative and selfish... but not only did he IMMEDIATELY understand the implications of not feeling pain when he hit Buffy... he was ALSO quick enough to hide it from Buffy, despite the distraction of the argument. James absolutely made Spike into a phenomenon with his charisma and presence in the role... but the character is one of the best written in the Buffyverse, imo. As for what Spike hoped to accomplish and what things changed. He is following the pattern we've seen since S2. Passion, obsession and violence. That describes Spike's behaviour towards Drusilla and even Harmony as much as it does towards Buffy. He's a twisted, soulless monster... but he does love... in his twisted, soulless, monstrous way. And now he sees that Buffy is not human. For him, this changes everything, because she is no longer above him. She is tarnished. I know that many dislike this season for its darker themes, or for Buffy acting "out of character" in her descent into depression. But to me is was the most real plotline of the show. It didn't cheapen or demean Buffy to me that she made bad decisions. It made her relatable. But more than that, it made her MORE heroic. We've seen her struggle with PTSD (as we'd call it today) since season 2 (honestly, even through season 1, but not quite so apparent. She begins the *pilot* traumatised by her experiences in LA!) but this entire season is powerful in its explorations. And the pay off at the end MIGHT be a little saccharine, but I like it because we all need a little hope.
He wasn't obsessed with Harmony and he didn't love her. There was another reason for his behavior. He treated her the same way the plot treated her and how they saw her. In this show they portray her as a stupid brat, even Buffy laughs at her and calls her pathetic. That's her place in the story, they mostly agree with this, unfortunately. They made him intolerant of her stupidity and of her in general. It's not only about him it's about her character in the story. Although I like her. What about Dru, again, for the most of the time it was about what kind of character she was. She was crazy so there was nothing normal about and around her. Even if we remember the second season that you are talking about, she was more crazy and demonic than him. First was Angelus, then Dru and only after that Spike. And she was using him like a thing and treated him badly. She made him her puppy. He was ready to do everything for her. And she liked torture. Also a reason for him to please her. He was often a character who satisfied, pleased women. Sexually, emotionally. She asked him to bring her the dead slayer (Buffy). And then she dumped him because he was too soft for her, that's the quote, and what they added later, because she saw that he was in love. He was no longer her property. She's a crazy manipulative b*tch. And he was trying to please her for her to love him. For some reason people forget that. They forget to see Spike behind all this. He was different. This is also a reason why eventually he was able to change everything, something they (Angelus, Dru etc) were never able to do.
The differences between Angelus & Spike is Angelus needed a soul to just not be a monster. Spike learned to be good (or tried to be) without one, even before the chip.
I'm always interested in watching people's reactions when they see this episode and especially the ending. This is exactly the moment that was born for this kind of videos.
Spike is one of the most complicated characters in the show, with one of the more involved character arcs. Spike loves Buffy, no question about that, but in his head, sex, love, and violence are all mixed together. Go back to the season 3 episode "Lovers Walk" and see his final plan for getting Drusilla back. And Spike is changing, albeit slowly with lots of backsliding (kind of like real world personal changes). He thinks the chip has failed so he attempts to go back to feeding on people, but note that he has to psych himself up. Such a far cry from "I'm a veal kind of guy. You're too old to eat...but not to kill." My take is that the chip in his head, forcing him into association with the Scoobies, and particularly with Buffy, has motivated him to try to be better, to want to be better. He's not really aware of that, but then, as good as he is at reading others, he's often shown a decided lack of self-awareness. And all that makes him a truly fascinating character.
Yes!!!! That's how you bring the House down🤣🤘 When I talked to James one time he was telling war stories about on set So He did do 97% of hes own Stunt's but he had a weird feeling that day so Stunt Spike aka (Steve) Jumped in and in the fight That Shandelor the Spike swings on to kick Buffy...Well In real life That fell on Stunt Spikes face!!!! After filming they rushed to the hospital to check on him so James did most of everything from then on, And Yep Willow playing with the Darkside of the force bad⚡ Enjoy the ride Dakara stay awesome 🤘
Poor old Steve Tartalia had quite a few mishaps doubling for James Marsters. It was Steve who did the tower fall in season fives The Gift. Apparently he landed on a brick in a very sensitive area. Fortunately he managed to hold it together until the director called, "CUT!"
James Marsters talked about this season. That the network they switched to was relatively new. So they didn't have the....... I don't know what it's called, censor? Standards and practices? The person that tells them they can't do something. So the sex scenes get rather intense for a prime time show this season, because there was no one stopping them.
This is one of those episodes that stays with you - at least that's how it was for me when I first saw it. I had never really watched the show before and one holiday season I was at my families home, bored and there was a marathon of Buffy on so I started watching it (not from the beginning of the marathon, which was obviously not all episodes just the big ones) and when this one played I was hooked and spent the money I had gotten for Christmas on buying the first couple seasons on DVD. I became a mega fan ever since and have watched this show from stat to finish so many times I cant even count. This episode still holds a special place in my heart and is probably one of the reasons (there are others) why I have always been "team Spike".
I really enjoy your comments especially your analysis after the show. You have great insight and often different perspectives that are very interesting. I can tell that you really enjoy watching Buffy and care about the characters.
@@theadamabrams Yep. This was my first thought as a Brit. There's a famous sketch by Michael McIntyre where any word (generally a noun) ending in -ed can mean drunk in the UK.
I agree with Giles thought that Buffy needs to be more independent. But his timing is poor. You don't abandon someone who just went throught a major trauma. I guess the writers had to do something since Anthony Head wanted to be in England with his family more.
@@DakaraJayneand yet this is still the censored version, there exists on yt a crappy version from the dailies showing that both smg and masters gave all they could in the "audio department" to make the censors work a living hell.
The writers giving fans the relationship many asked for... only doing so because of Buffy being depressed, and as stated in the second to last lyric of the musical: "This isn't real, but I just want to feel."
the reason he's fighting and beating her up and getting beat up as foreplay is because just like said in fool for love buffy : you think we're dancing? spike : that's all we've ever done. and the question in crush episode 'do you do anything to unintentionally lead him on" "well i do beat him up alot to spike thats like third base" and it is to buffy aswell. this also leads into why riley couldn't work and excite her the way angel and spike do. because a girl with super strength would need a guy who can make her feel inferior sometimes, because she's tired of feeling like she's the strongest person ever who has to do everything and save the world, riley was not that🤣🤣🤣
Having been in a situation where the only way I could quit being an enabler was to leave someone out of my life, I can totally relate to Giles. Also, as Tony Head was moving back to England, the writers had to do something and I think they did a good job. As far as Spike/Buffy is concerned and why Spike was fighting someone he loved, recall in season 3 he said he had to go back and torture Druscilla until she loved him again and that Buffy told Giles "I beat him up a lot, t Spike that's like third base". Spike has a very creepy love.
tara didn't want to enable willow... but i don't understand how you can call giles "an enabler" of anything, except perhaps enabling the slayer to live that much longer. with giles recklessly departed, this really was the season for buffy to slip and get killed by something as previous slayers have, and (at least as of 6x09) it's incredibly lucky that the worst thing about is a handful of human dorks.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Right, the worst thing to do to someone dealing with depression is to leave them. Giles just needed to have more solid boundaries with what he would and would not take care of for Buffy, but he should not have left. That would just cause Buffy to feel abandoned.
i was a teenager when this came out - my mother loved the show too. i've completely blacked out the memory of having to watch the end of this episode with her.
You asked what Sarah thought about Spike and Buffy and she's has admitted she hated it and it wasn't who Buffy was. She was also sick of the cringey dark sex scenes and vocalised this with Joss who kept ignoring her or palming her off as he was too busy with Firefly. I think that's where their relationship truly broke down and she tried to distance herself from the show for years because of it. I also think the show suffered alot from Giles leaving but ASH wanted to leave. I would have preferred if they had suggested his ex was ill, or he had a relative who was dying and he had to leave, would have been more realistic. Like you say a father figure wouldn't just leave.
People sometimes rely too much onto what the actors think about stories they’re in. In the reunion Sarah said she’s gotten death threats for speaking but believes Buffy and spike WERENT soul mates and shouldNT have ended up together…. Also she dislikes that last two seasons because she felt they were too dark overall compared to the light and funny take on the plot. She wanted it to stay that barely edgy high school show basically. That being said people have argued that the spuffy stuff was just fan baiting but that’s completely false. Joss didn’t like how much people liked spiked character at all which led to THE scene the almost made James quit the show as he has personal trauma from a situation that happened to him…….. that being said spike is a more developed archetype of Pike (Luke Perry) from the original movie who Buffy falls for in LA. So the show is loose but that movie is still pretty much canon on a lot of parts and events. So it was always in josses brain that Buffy would fall for the bad boy who walks on the dark side of things but deep down cares deeply. Joss himself at he same reunion stated that for a highschool romance where you don’t fully know who you are or what you want then yes Angel is compelling. BUT if you want a solid long term relationship then spike is the guy you want. He’s flawed and has alot to work on but he at his best overshadows Angel. Spike is “more mature” (josses exact words) than Angel is fundamentally to their cores. So spike was always best for Buffy
@@theprodigal the way the show ended if we’re being honest Buffy was too good for most of the characters. The scoobies betrayed her dirty and so did Giles. The no names were crashing in her pad and still ungreatful. Dawn was touch and go but ultimately still detrayed her. The whole last two season have a lot of issues unless you take the abstract indirect approach.
Sarah has said to this day she will not watch season 6 and I believe how her character was portrayed with Spike became the catalyst for her deciding S7 would be her last. Whenever she talks about the show and asked about Spike, it’s pretty clear she didn’t feel he was the better choice.
@@jevonk she overall didn’t like the darker storylines or imagery at all. She stated that the premise of the show was alluring because even though it was a serious plot most of it was just goofy high school hijinks she didn’t like when they aged the characters up and had them deal with real life problems. She felt it took away from the light and fluffy which is why she signed on. Spike was just apart of that. Also she and James went to war to stop THAT scene in seeing red and joss threatened to fire then ect. So I’m sure it wasnt JUST the plot but how he treated them off camera as well that made it no longer fun. Also you’re correct in my first comment I meant to say she DIDNT think spike and Buffy were soulmates and DIDNT think they should have been together. Autocorrect changes it
15:51 Welcome to the toxic world of Spuffy. Spike conflates violence with passion and love...just look at his plan to get Drusilla back. (Torture here until she loves me again). Buffy is numb and metaphorically dead since here resurrection. She hates life, she hates herself.
Lol. Great reaction and traumatized looks from this ep that "brought the house down".... as Buffy/Spike went toe to toe (and other parts as well), and really expanded that plot as well as the growing addiction to magical dragon that Willow is chasing.... really look forward to you watching how the rest of this season unfolds for you.... first CTU of the day for you D! Keep em coming
Believe it or not, the "interaction" between Spike and Buffy was not simply for prurience. The interactions between Amy and Willow are not presented simply to demonstrate an unhealthy addiction, though of course it does. But both of these odd behaviors shown by our two favorite women in this series move major season arcs forward, and I hope you enjoy them as they happen. Anyway, thanks for the reaction, and you get both a comment and a thumbs up.
😂 Your traumatised face made me chuckle so much! At this point I feel like Buffy/Spike was inevitable. She needed to feel something and he kind of understood what she was going through where no one else could. But you’re right, I don’t think they were in love. Spike believed he was because he felt something that he never had before but it was lust, not love. You don’t smack around someone you love. And Willow… oof, that poor girl needs an intervention ASAP. Having Amy around encouraging her magic isn’t going to lead anywhere good.
Gotta say I disagree with the take here. Not because I condone hitting within relationships... but because 1) I'm a realist. Love does NOT eliminate negative emotions and some number of people are capable of violence towards people they genuinely love (this is often generational, and it takes VERY special people to overcome that. I was lucky that my mother accomplished this. She wasn't perfect, and I did get hit sometimes... but I know her upbringing and to say I am INCREDIBLY proud of the person she managed to become is an understatement. I can barely even raise my voice in anger, but I do not ABSOLUTELY condemn people who display toxic traits. We all have them, and mine lean more towards self neglect/isolation and an extremely biting sense of humour) It's not an excuse. Don't hit people. But don't for a second believe that violence precludes love. That assumption won't actually help anyone. Lots of abuse victims get love bombed by their abusers, and so wouldn't recognise that denial as true. Whereas explaining that love does not justify violence OR mean that violence should be endured... that does stand a chance of having an impact, imo. And 2) it needs to be considered SOMEWHAT allegorically. The MUTUALLY toxic nature of Buffy/Spike is a VERY important things to explore in fiction, because these kinds of relationships are very real. It might not always be physical violence, but a LOT of people seem to thrive on drama and argument, and feel relationships without those things are "boring" I think this season demonstrates that those relationships are not good for EITHER party, no matter who is most in the wrong. 3) Buffy is not in love with Spike. She's using him. She knows it. She DOES feel some affection for him, especially as their tryst continues... but she hates herself for what she is doing. Spike on the other hand... he IS in love. Madly, passionately, irrationally in love. But he's a monster. And that love is not always manifested in positive ways. I'd say the proof of Spike's love is expressed in an episode SO MANY misjudge imo. Seeing Red. A soulless monster not only fails to perpetrate a crime he has undoubtedly committed countless times against somebody clearly vulnerable and disadvantaged... but he becomes SO sickened by his own actions that he flees town and... does what he does. A soulless demon makes a choice that is ENTIRELY self sacrificing. Perhaps he doesn't entirely understand the cost. Perhaps he does have a selfish motive in wanting to be somebody Buffy CAN love. But it is a powerful thing for somebody to want to change, to TRY to change and to take those first steps.
@@DmGray I’m not going to spoil Seeing Red here because it’s not fair on Dakara but the fact that you have ANY positive takes about what Spike does in that episode is appalling to me. Honestly I’m not impressed with your take that abusive people generally are capable of love. Love-bombing is not the same as actually being in love with someone. When you love someone you can’t even fathom treating them that way. Regarding Seeing Red specifically (again, no spoilers): yes, he realises it’s wrong AFTERWARDS and tries to make himself a better person but he didn’t realise or care in that moment. I honestly believe he wasn’t in love with her; he was only thinking of himself in that moment. You really need to rewatch it with clear eyes.
As Spike has said in a previous season, "I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it." As for Seeing Red - we're getting into spoilerish territory here. But the Buffy/Spike relationship this whole season is based on violence and lack of consent. It is very toxic and comes out of a desperate need to feel something, and "no" is overruled more than once before that episode. The lines are blurry, and both are responsible for that. It's kind of like Buffy and Spike are addicted to each other for a while...
But lets remember he is a vampire and she is a slayer. The "smacking around" is not like how humans do it. These are mortal enemies that have superpowers created to kll one another. It still could be love, a distorted supernatural love. Even if it's one sided.
@@HerHollyness U kinda just spoiled it with that comment. 😁 Let's not treat this show or these characters like they are just like us in the same circumstances. They are fictional beings that have a complicated relationship born out of supernatural circumstances. Let's also not forget what Angel did.
Dakara: I feel tainted. Me: Yep. I remember when I first saw this episode, I was pretty much like, "HOLY SHIT. WHAT THE..." They definitely crossed a line into different territory in that final scene. You said it well -- hot, but extremely toxic.
Not to mention raping her body, by having sex with her while she's under the influence of a mind-altering spell. Tara would not have "spread beneath her willow tree" in episode 7 if Willow hadn't tampered with her memories, she would've still been mad.
It's worth noting the ways Spike demeans her with the goal of being with her. He tries to pull her down so she'll be more vulnerable to his advances. Buffy pushes back, and is incredibly demeaning to Spike too. Though her goal is usually to push him away, his enjoyment of pulling her down makes me more uncomfortable, personally.
I don't like the way Xander treats Anya, actually. He keeps jabbing at her the same way he used to do to Cordelia, like he's transferred some of his understanding of how to behave in a relationship from one to the other. But Anya doesn't really jab back at him the way Cordelia did.
If memory serves, James is on the record as thinking Spike and Buffy getting together was a really interesting idea. Spike had been a bit comic-reliefy in the previous season; not entirely, but a bit. Spike was a very popular character, but (IIRC) the writers were struggling a bit as to what to do with him. Then Joss told James about this arc, which is what got James excited. Someone check me on this tho; it’s been a while.
I think James wanted spike to fall for buffy but that she would never return his feelings, like and he would continue to try to impress her, in demon ways of course, and keep failing
Metti- le- cose-a-posto (the spell that willow uses to return amy to human form) is in italian languace.. (with weird accent but it’s ok) means “put things right”.
I think plenty of people who haven't seen Star Wars know who Yoda is but not Boba Fett. That said, I do think Spike's seen the Original Trilogy--in theaters, when it first came out. I think it's totally plausible that he remembers who Yoda is but not Boba Fett.
yup, foreplay, because they can't just sit and discuss their feeling nor can they make out for a while and gently slip into ...well you know. this is spike. this is buffy. she beats him down because ther is just no way she can walk around holding hands with him, and even tho he might harbor a more romantic relationship, their history won't let them go down that path. this was truly the only way they could get there. he wants it cause he really loves her, and she wants it so she can escape, even for a moment, the misery she is in. there is no one else they can do this with, because spike truly loves her and buffy just cannot get it together enough to even consider trying to get to know a stranger, someone she really cannot tell her secrets to, as she can with spike. it's weird, but kind of necessary for both of them.
i think whatever reasons they came up with in the comments for giles leaving are clutching at straws. the reason he left was the actor wanted to go home to be with family. the writers just came up with the best excuse they could to justify it on screen. the real giles. the one who would exist if they had 100% control of the cast would be here for her.
what people are clutching to in the comments is that the writers didn't really come up with the best excuse they could since it makes Giles look insensitive to Buffy:s depression.
Willow was missing Tara, so she magicked up another magically inclined gal. I guess it’s easier than working on yourself and your crumbling relationship.
!May be seen as a spoiler (no specific details mentioned)! I hate what they did to Amy after they unratted her. She was such a great supporting character in S1-3, at that time much more likeable than Harmony. What they do to her in the comics is even worse. It's literally destroying a character to service the plot (Willow's addiction), similar to Cordy in Angel.
Why Buffy and Willow can't have a heart to heart is because Buffy can't get passed her own issues at this point to see what Willow is going through. Buffy deflects in the one part where she could have talked to Willow and told her that Tara was right and Xander also never stopped to talk to Willow either.
Even though Amy is back, we can see she is a bad influence on Willow, as she is a powerful witch also, the two of them at having great fun at The Bronze, but at the expense of everyone else, we can see again the magic addiction out of control. Spike knows something has changed in Buffy, and proves it by hitting her with no neural pain for him. It always looked as if it was only a matter of time when Buffy succumbed to her sexual urges and desires, and they two of them with superhuman powers shag so hard they demolish the house! The seeds are now really being sown for the tone of this Season as 'Pandora's Box' is now well and truly opened. The reason the sex scenes were shown now is because of the network change. On the WB it was not allowed, but once they switched to UPN it was ok. James Marsters explained this in an interview at Dublin Comicon in 2019.
According to James, UPN didn't have a standards and practices department to tell any producers of whatever show they had on what they could do within the Federal Communications Commission's rules. The sex scene isn't HBO or hardcore porn, but it's steamy.
Yeah, I don't think you can compare Spike and Buffy to Buffy and Angel because they're nothing alike. I feel like what you said about her ability to be truthful with Spike has a lot more to do with it than I probably even previously thought of.❤🎉
Willow and Giles should have been figured out how to turn Amy back seasons ago! The writers just forgot about her 😂😂😂 or couldnt get a hold of the actress lol
What ticks me off about Willow in this episode (and the whole magic as a drug metaphor) is that you'd think she'd have learned from what she did to Tara, why Tara was so angry and felt so betrayed, for having magic used on her to mess with her mind, especially after what Glory had already done to her brain. But here in this episode, Willow's gleefully affecting everyone in that club, against their will. I know Amy's kind of a bad influence in this regard, but it still makes me mad that Willow doesn't see it and she doesn't get what she did to Tara was so very wrong.
My theory concerning Buffy and the control chip is that Buffy died. When Willow brought her back, there had to be some changes. Willow is going down a dark path. Magic has a price, and she hasn't been paying it.
I don't really agree here, Giles is IMHO wrong both in heart and head here. If we take the specific case of lecturing Dawn the real problem here is that neither Buffy nor Giles is the right people to do it. Buffy simply have no authority over Dawn (especially from Dawns viewpoint) being just a few years older and her sister, Dawn will never take anything that Buffy says seriously as guardian. From what we have seen so far actually the far better approach would have been Willow+Tara since Dawn seems to see them as her pseudo parents.
always h8 this part , the female stereotype who is hurting because trauma is using 6 to feel something and she does it with the worst possible people.....ofc I known a few females irl that done the same, to help them feel something, but I think it is still called a female stereotype?
1 of them bedded the "local medicine provider" who she h8ed, but who have made "flirting" comments to her, so she knew he was a safe bet, that he wanted her
Even if it's a stereotype what's the connection? For a woman. It's not like you just ended your relationship with a person you loved and you can't wait to have sex with someone or at least find someone new. Some girls do that. But there is no such here. What's the connection between creating violence and wanting sex during it? For a woman. It's more like what a man with trauma can do if we talk about stereotype. They beat the shit out of each other but Spike is a vampire also. What is she? Her having depression is like being a soulless vampire? I really think that since the main person of the show was always Whedon even when he had other projects to work with but still nothing could be done without his approval. So they show more of a male perspective on things (if this man is a jerk) rather than what a woman would typically do. Here I don't think that they understand women well.
sorry but I have never ever heard of this behavior being specifically female in nature so cannot say that I understand how this could be a stereotype. Perhaps I have seen to few teen dramas or something, but honestly I don't believe that the writers would handle it different if Buffy had been male.
I died laughing when you said "what is this? Foreplay?" I died laughing, thinking actually yes, yes it is
That moment when you hear Spike's zipper being pulled down with the subtitles...🤣🤣
Back when it aired, there weren't any subtitles, but the sound was still there, and the movements were very unmistakable, and I was like (surprised Pikachu face)!!!
Followed by a week of near permanent “disgust face” and the new-found ability to swallow my own vomit 😖😖🤢🤢🤢
I love how smart Spike is.
Sure, he's impulsive, emotional, manipulative and selfish... but not only did he IMMEDIATELY understand the implications of not feeling pain when he hit Buffy... he was ALSO quick enough to hide it from Buffy, despite the distraction of the argument.
James absolutely made Spike into a phenomenon with his charisma and presence in the role... but the character is one of the best written in the Buffyverse, imo.
As for what Spike hoped to accomplish and what things changed.
He is following the pattern we've seen since S2. Passion, obsession and violence. That describes Spike's behaviour towards Drusilla and even Harmony as much as it does towards Buffy. He's a twisted, soulless monster... but he does love... in his twisted, soulless, monstrous way.
And now he sees that Buffy is not human. For him, this changes everything, because she is no longer above him. She is tarnished.
I know that many dislike this season for its darker themes, or for Buffy acting "out of character" in her descent into depression.
But to me is was the most real plotline of the show.
It didn't cheapen or demean Buffy to me that she made bad decisions. It made her relatable. But more than that, it made her MORE heroic.
We've seen her struggle with PTSD (as we'd call it today) since season 2 (honestly, even through season 1, but not quite so apparent. She begins the *pilot* traumatised by her experiences in LA!) but this entire season is powerful in its explorations.
And the pay off at the end MIGHT be a little saccharine, but I like it because we all need a little hope.
He wasn't obsessed with Harmony and he didn't love her. There was another reason for his behavior. He treated her the same way the plot treated her and how they saw her. In this show they portray her as a stupid brat, even Buffy laughs at her and calls her pathetic. That's her place in the story, they mostly agree with this, unfortunately. They made him intolerant of her stupidity and of her in general. It's not only about him it's about her character in the story. Although I like her.
What about Dru, again, for the most of the time it was about what kind of character she was. She was crazy so there was nothing normal about and around her. Even if we remember the second season that you are talking about, she was more crazy and demonic than him. First was Angelus, then Dru and only after that Spike. And she was using him like a thing and treated him badly. She made him her puppy. He was ready to do everything for her. And she liked torture. Also a reason for him to please her. He was often a character who satisfied, pleased women. Sexually, emotionally. She asked him to bring her the dead slayer (Buffy). And then she dumped him because he was too soft for her, that's the quote, and what they added later, because she saw that he was in love. He was no longer her property. She's a crazy manipulative b*tch. And he was trying to please her for her to love him.
For some reason people forget that. They forget to see Spike behind all this. He was different. This is also a reason why eventually he was able to change everything, something they (Angelus, Dru etc) were never able to do.
The differences between Angelus & Spike is Angelus needed a soul to just not be a monster. Spike learned to be good (or tried to be) without one, even before the chip.
Spike is not good. He is evil.@@JoshuaMartian-go3tm
I'm always interested in watching people's reactions when they see this episode and especially the ending. This is exactly the moment that was born for this kind of videos.
Dakara: "Let's get stuck in."
Spike: "Bet."
Spike is one of the most complicated characters in the show, with one of the more involved character arcs. Spike loves Buffy, no question about that, but in his head, sex, love, and violence are all mixed together. Go back to the season 3 episode "Lovers Walk" and see his final plan for getting Drusilla back.
And Spike is changing, albeit slowly with lots of backsliding (kind of like real world personal changes). He thinks the chip has failed so he attempts to go back to feeding on people, but note that he has to psych himself up. Such a far cry from "I'm a veal kind of guy. You're too old to eat...but not to kill."
My take is that the chip in his head, forcing him into association with the Scoobies, and particularly with Buffy, has motivated him to try to be better, to want to be better. He's not really aware of that, but then, as good as he is at reading others, he's often shown a decided lack of self-awareness.
And all that makes him a truly fascinating character.
Yes!!!! That's how you bring the House down🤣🤘 When I talked to James one time he was telling war stories about on set So He did do 97% of hes own Stunt's but he had a weird feeling that day so Stunt Spike aka (Steve) Jumped in and in the fight That Shandelor the Spike swings on to kick Buffy...Well In real life That fell on Stunt Spikes face!!!! After filming they rushed to the hospital to check on him so James did most of everything from then on, And Yep Willow playing with the Darkside of the force bad⚡ Enjoy the ride Dakara stay awesome 🤘
A Shandelor demon or did you mean chandelier?
Poor old Steve Tartalia had quite a few mishaps doubling for James Marsters. It was Steve who did the tower fall in season fives The Gift. Apparently he landed on a brick in a very sensitive area. Fortunately he managed to hold it together until the director called, "CUT!"
@@derekgibson2589 Dude right! James still had he Stunt reel and showed me the stuff he did over the years crazy stuff
James Marsters talked about this season. That the network they switched to was relatively new. So they didn't have the....... I don't know what it's called, censor? Standards and practices? The person that tells them they can't do something. So the sex scenes get rather intense for a prime time show this season, because there was no one stopping them.
This is one of those episodes that stays with you - at least that's how it was for me when I first saw it. I had never really watched the show before and one holiday season I was at my families home, bored and there was a marathon of Buffy on so I started watching it (not from the beginning of the marathon, which was obviously not all episodes just the big ones) and when this one played I was hooked and spent the money I had gotten for Christmas on buying the first couple seasons on DVD. I became a mega fan ever since and have watched this show from stat to finish so many times I cant even count. This episode still holds a special place in my heart and is probably one of the reasons (there are others) why I have always been "team Spike".
I really enjoy your comments especially your analysis after the show. You have great insight and often different perspectives that are very interesting. I can tell that you really enjoy watching Buffy and care about the characters.
Every reactor is shocked that blue Gatorade didn't always exist.
Smashed, Wrecked, GONE!
Great titles. All three are slang for being drunk (in American English, at least, but I think also for UK?).
@@theadamabrams Yep. This was my first thought as a Brit. There's a famous sketch by Michael McIntyre where any word (generally a noun) ending in -ed can mean drunk in the UK.
I agree with Giles thought that Buffy needs to be more independent. But his timing is poor. You don't abandon someone who just went throught a major trauma. I guess the writers had to do something since Anthony Head wanted to be in England with his family more.
I agree with this. His motivation was in the right place, but the timing was shortsighted.
Dawn has pretty grown to view willow and tara as secondary parents and wants to parent trap them back together
This is the episode where you feel like you should be watching it with a sock on the doorknob. Lol
😂😂
@@DakaraJayneand yet this is still the censored version, there exists on yt a crappy version from the dailies showing that both smg and masters gave all they could in the "audio department" to make the censors work a living hell.
"I feel tainted. I feel dirty" title of Buffys sex tape 😂😂😂
The writers giving fans the relationship many asked for... only doing so because of Buffy being depressed, and as stated in the second to last lyric of the musical: "This isn't real, but I just want to feel."
Spike and Buffy make me think of what it must be like for a Klingon couple.
IIRC when this episode aired on BBC2 (UK) pre-watershed it was only 27 minutes long due to call the cuts they had to make for the timeslot
the reason he's fighting and beating her up and getting beat up as foreplay is because just like said in fool for love buffy : you think we're dancing? spike : that's all we've ever done. and the question in crush episode 'do you do anything to unintentionally lead him on" "well i do beat him up alot to spike thats like third base" and it is to buffy aswell. this also leads into why riley couldn't work and excite her the way angel and spike do. because a girl with super strength would need a guy who can make her feel inferior sometimes, because she's tired of feeling like she's the strongest person ever who has to do everything and save the world, riley was not that🤣🤣🤣
[Zipper unzipping]
Closed captions are the best. :D
and [Grunting] 😂😂
I'm surprised it doesn't say "sex noises"
I can't think of any other scene on television or movie that is more raw and passionate than this scene that shows no ndty or no explicit shots.
Having been in a situation where the only way I could quit being an enabler was to leave someone out of my life, I can totally relate to Giles. Also, as Tony Head was moving back to England, the writers had to do something and I think they did a good job. As far as Spike/Buffy is concerned and why Spike was fighting someone he loved, recall in season 3 he said he had to go back and torture Druscilla until she loved him again and that Buffy told Giles "I beat him up a lot, t Spike that's like third base". Spike has a very creepy love.
tara didn't want to enable willow... but i don't understand how you can call giles "an enabler" of anything, except perhaps enabling the slayer to live that much longer. with giles recklessly departed, this really was the season for buffy to slip and get killed by something as previous slayers have, and (at least as of 6x09) it's incredibly lucky that the worst thing about is a handful of human dorks.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Right, the worst thing to do to someone dealing with depression is to leave them. Giles just needed to have more solid boundaries with what he would and would not take care of for Buffy, but he should not have left. That would just cause Buffy to feel abandoned.
There is an interview with James Marsters about the Spike-Buffy relationship. I've never seen one with SMG on the topic though.
i was a teenager when this came out - my mother loved the show too. i've completely blacked out the memory of having to watch the end of this episode with her.
The chemistry is crazy good between Buffy and Spike. But Buffy is depressed for sure.
You asked what Sarah thought about Spike and Buffy and she's has admitted she hated it and it wasn't who Buffy was. She was also sick of the cringey dark sex scenes and vocalised this with Joss who kept ignoring her or palming her off as he was too busy with Firefly. I think that's where their relationship truly broke down and she tried to distance herself from the show for years because of it.
I also think the show suffered alot from Giles leaving but ASH wanted to leave. I would have preferred if they had suggested his ex was ill, or he had a relative who was dying and he had to leave, would have been more realistic. Like you say a father figure wouldn't just leave.
People sometimes rely too much onto what the actors think about stories they’re in. In the reunion Sarah said she’s gotten death threats for speaking but believes Buffy and spike WERENT soul mates and shouldNT have ended up together…. Also she dislikes that last two seasons because she felt they were too dark overall compared to the light and funny take on the plot. She wanted it to stay that barely edgy high school show basically. That being said people have argued that the spuffy stuff was just fan baiting but that’s completely false. Joss didn’t like how much people liked spiked character at all which led to THE scene the almost made James quit the show as he has personal trauma from a situation that happened to him…….. that being said spike is a more developed archetype of Pike (Luke Perry) from the original movie who Buffy falls for in LA. So the show is loose but that movie is still pretty much canon on a lot of parts and events. So it was always in josses brain that Buffy would fall for the bad boy who walks on the dark side of things but deep down cares deeply. Joss himself at he same reunion stated that for a highschool romance where you don’t fully know who you are or what you want then yes Angel is compelling. BUT if you want a solid long term relationship then spike is the guy you want. He’s flawed and has alot to work on but he at his best overshadows Angel. Spike is “more mature” (josses exact words) than Angel is fundamentally to their cores. So spike was always best for Buffy
@@vikkidonn Buffy deserved better than them both.
@@theprodigal the way the show ended if we’re being honest Buffy was too good for most of the characters. The scoobies betrayed her dirty and so did Giles. The no names were crashing in her pad and still ungreatful. Dawn was touch and go but ultimately still detrayed her. The whole last two season have a lot of issues unless you take the abstract indirect approach.
Sarah has said to this day she will not watch season 6 and I believe how her character was portrayed with Spike became the catalyst for her deciding S7 would be her last. Whenever she talks about the show and asked about Spike, it’s pretty clear she didn’t feel he was the better choice.
@@jevonk she overall didn’t like the darker storylines or imagery at all. She stated that the premise of the show was alluring because even though it was a serious plot most of it was just goofy high school hijinks she didn’t like when they aged the characters up and had them deal with real life problems. She felt it took away from the light and fluffy which is why she signed on. Spike was just apart of that. Also she and James went to war to stop THAT scene in seeing red and joss threatened to fire then ect. So I’m sure it wasnt JUST the plot but how he treated them off camera as well that made it no longer fun.
Also you’re correct in my first comment I meant to say she DIDNT think spike and Buffy were soulmates and DIDNT think they should have been together. Autocorrect changes it
15:51 Welcome to the toxic world of Spuffy. Spike conflates violence with passion and love...just look at his plan to get Drusilla back. (Torture here until she loves me again).
Buffy is numb and metaphorically dead since here resurrection. She hates life, she hates herself.
Lol. Great reaction and traumatized looks from this ep that "brought the house down".... as Buffy/Spike went toe to toe (and other parts as well), and really expanded that plot as well as the growing addiction to magical dragon that Willow is chasing.... really look forward to you watching how the rest of this season unfolds for you.... first CTU of the day for you D! Keep em coming
Believe it or not, the "interaction" between Spike and Buffy was not simply for prurience. The interactions between Amy and Willow are not presented simply to demonstrate an unhealthy addiction, though of course it does. But both of these odd behaviors shown by our two favorite women in this series move major season arcs forward, and I hope you enjoy them as they happen.
Anyway, thanks for the reaction, and you get both a comment and a thumbs up.
Very good analyzing of what's going on!
Also…”I love this show so much” that’s like saying you like breathing or water or anything else that’s sustaining and great. 😊
😂 Your traumatised face made me chuckle so much! At this point I feel like Buffy/Spike was inevitable. She needed to feel something and he kind of understood what she was going through where no one else could. But you’re right, I don’t think they were in love. Spike believed he was because he felt something that he never had before but it was lust, not love. You don’t smack around someone you love. And Willow… oof, that poor girl needs an intervention ASAP. Having Amy around encouraging her magic isn’t going to lead anywhere good.
Gotta say I disagree with the take here.
Not because I condone hitting within relationships... but because
1) I'm a realist. Love does NOT eliminate negative emotions and some number of people are capable of violence towards people they genuinely love (this is often generational, and it takes VERY special people to overcome that. I was lucky that my mother accomplished this. She wasn't perfect, and I did get hit sometimes... but I know her upbringing and to say I am INCREDIBLY proud of the person she managed to become is an understatement. I can barely even raise my voice in anger, but I do not ABSOLUTELY condemn people who display toxic traits. We all have them, and mine lean more towards self neglect/isolation and an extremely biting sense of humour)
It's not an excuse. Don't hit people. But don't for a second believe that violence precludes love. That assumption won't actually help anyone. Lots of abuse victims get love bombed by their abusers, and so wouldn't recognise that denial as true. Whereas explaining that love does not justify violence OR mean that violence should be endured... that does stand a chance of having an impact, imo.
And 2) it needs to be considered SOMEWHAT allegorically.
The MUTUALLY toxic nature of Buffy/Spike is a VERY important things to explore in fiction, because these kinds of relationships are very real. It might not always be physical violence, but a LOT of people seem to thrive on drama and argument, and feel relationships without those things are "boring"
I think this season demonstrates that those relationships are not good for EITHER party, no matter who is most in the wrong.
3) Buffy is not in love with Spike. She's using him. She knows it.
She DOES feel some affection for him, especially as their tryst continues... but she hates herself for what she is doing.
Spike on the other hand... he IS in love. Madly, passionately, irrationally in love.
But he's a monster. And that love is not always manifested in positive ways.
I'd say the proof of Spike's love is expressed in an episode SO MANY misjudge imo. Seeing Red.
A soulless monster not only fails to perpetrate a crime he has undoubtedly committed countless times against somebody clearly vulnerable and disadvantaged... but he becomes SO sickened by his own actions that he flees town and... does what he does.
A soulless demon makes a choice that is ENTIRELY self sacrificing. Perhaps he doesn't entirely understand the cost. Perhaps he does have a selfish motive in wanting to be somebody Buffy CAN love.
But it is a powerful thing for somebody to want to change, to TRY to change and to take those first steps.
@@DmGray I’m not going to spoil Seeing Red here because it’s not fair on Dakara but the fact that you have ANY positive takes about what Spike does in that episode is appalling to me. Honestly I’m not impressed with your take that abusive people generally are capable of love. Love-bombing is not the same as actually being in love with someone. When you love someone you can’t even fathom treating them that way.
Regarding Seeing Red specifically (again, no spoilers): yes, he realises it’s wrong AFTERWARDS and tries to make himself a better person but he didn’t realise or care in that moment. I honestly believe he wasn’t in love with her; he was only thinking of himself in that moment. You really need to rewatch it with clear eyes.
As Spike has said in a previous season, "I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."
As for Seeing Red - we're getting into spoilerish territory here. But the Buffy/Spike relationship this whole season is based on violence and lack of consent. It is very toxic and comes out of a desperate need to feel something, and "no" is overruled more than once before that episode. The lines are blurry, and both are responsible for that. It's kind of like Buffy and Spike are addicted to each other for a while...
But lets remember he is a vampire and she is a slayer. The "smacking around" is not like how humans do it. These are mortal enemies that have superpowers created to kll one another. It still could be love, a distorted supernatural love. Even if it's one sided.
@@HerHollyness U kinda just spoiled it with that comment. 😁 Let's not treat this show or these characters like they are just like us in the same circumstances. They are fictional beings that have a complicated relationship born out of supernatural circumstances. Let's also not forget what Angel did.
And James is just gorgeous!
Dakara: I feel tainted.
Me: Yep. I remember when I first saw this episode, I was pretty much like, "HOLY SHIT. WHAT THE..." They definitely crossed a line into different territory in that final scene. You said it well -- hot, but extremely toxic.
Raping her mind is not a small thing, Willow.
Not to mention raping her body, by having sex with her while she's under the influence of a mind-altering spell. Tara would not have "spread beneath her willow tree" in episode 7 if Willow hadn't tampered with her memories, she would've still been mad.
This is the most toxic, self destructive season of Buffy.
lots of interviews for you to watch :)
It's worth noting the ways Spike demeans her with the goal of being with her. He tries to pull her down so she'll be more vulnerable to his advances. Buffy pushes back, and is incredibly demeaning to Spike too. Though her goal is usually to push him away, his enjoyment of pulling her down makes me more uncomfortable, personally.
I don't like the way Xander treats Anya, actually. He keeps jabbing at her the same way he used to do to Cordelia, like he's transferred some of his understanding of how to behave in a relationship from one to the other. But Anya doesn't really jab back at him the way Cordelia did.
If memory serves, James is on the record as thinking Spike and Buffy getting together was a really interesting idea. Spike had been a bit comic-reliefy in the previous season; not entirely, but a bit. Spike was a very popular character, but (IIRC) the writers were struggling a bit as to what to do with him. Then Joss told James about this arc, which is what got James excited. Someone check me on this tho; it’s been a while.
I think James wanted spike to fall for buffy but that she would never return his feelings, like and he would continue to try to impress her, in demon ways of course, and keep failing
Metti- le- cose-a-posto (the spell that willow uses to return amy to human form) is in italian languace.. (with weird accent but it’s ok) means “put things right”.
spike pretending he didn't know who mr fett was to seem cool. he referenced yoda in his first episode.
I think plenty of people who haven't seen Star Wars know who Yoda is but not Boba Fett. That said, I do think Spike's seen the Original Trilogy--in theaters, when it first came out. I think it's totally plausible that he remembers who Yoda is but not Boba Fett.
@@colej.banning2419 just a light hearted comment not meant to be taken too seriously
@@leesmith9299 If the Internet's not for taking light headed comments seriously, what is it for?
Well blue Gatorade was new back in 2001
yup, foreplay, because they can't just sit and discuss their feeling nor can they make out for a while and gently slip into ...well you know. this is spike. this is buffy. she beats him down because ther is just no way she can walk around holding hands with him, and even tho he might harbor a more romantic relationship, their history won't let them go down that path. this was truly the only way they could get there. he wants it cause he really loves her, and she wants it so she can escape, even for a moment, the misery she is in. there is no one else they can do this with, because spike truly loves her and buffy just cannot get it together enough to even consider trying to get to know a stranger, someone she really cannot tell her secrets to, as she can with spike. it's weird, but kind of necessary for both of them.
i think whatever reasons they came up with in the comments for giles leaving are clutching at straws. the reason he left was the actor wanted to go home to be with family. the writers just came up with the best excuse they could to justify it on screen. the real giles. the one who would exist if they had 100% control of the cast would be here for her.
what people are clutching to in the comments is that the writers didn't really come up with the best excuse they could since it makes Giles look insensitive to Buffy:s depression.
It's so sweet how Dawn is trying to get Willow and Tara back together, because after Joyce and Buffy died, they were like two surrogate moms to her ❤❤
Willow was missing Tara, so she magicked up another magically inclined gal. I guess it’s easier than working on yourself and your crumbling relationship.
Surely Spike pulled a Dennis Rodman when the floor gave in.
!May be seen as a spoiler (no specific details mentioned)!
I hate what they did to Amy after they unratted her. She was such a great supporting character in S1-3, at that time much more likeable than Harmony. What they do to her in the comics is even worse. It's literally destroying a character to service the plot (Willow's addiction), similar to Cordy in Angel.
Getting it in..
Why Buffy and Willow can't have a heart to heart is because Buffy can't get passed her own issues at this point to see what Willow is going through. Buffy deflects in the one part where she could have talked to Willow and told her that Tara was right and Xander also never stopped to talk to Willow either.
Usually it's the vampires but this time the slayer gets spiked. 🤭😁
That thumbnail says it all.
"What a wild, wild ride." Exactly, a ride wild enough to bring the house down!
Even though Amy is back, we can see she is a bad influence on Willow, as she is a powerful witch also, the two of them at having great fun at The Bronze, but at the expense of everyone else, we can see again the magic addiction out of control. Spike knows something has changed in Buffy, and proves it by hitting her with no neural pain for him. It always looked as if it was only a matter of time when Buffy succumbed to her sexual urges and desires, and they two of them with superhuman powers shag so hard they demolish the house! The seeds are now really being sown for the tone of this Season as 'Pandora's Box' is now well and truly opened. The reason the sex scenes were shown now is because of the network change. On the WB it was not allowed, but once they switched to UPN it was ok. James Marsters explained this in an interview at Dublin Comicon in 2019.
According to James, UPN didn't have a standards and practices department to tell any producers of whatever show they had on what they could do within the Federal Communications Commission's rules. The sex scene isn't HBO or hardcore porn, but it's steamy.
Yeah, I don't think you can compare Spike and Buffy to Buffy and Angel because they're nothing alike. I feel like what you said about her ability to be truthful with Spike has a lot more to do with it than I probably even previously thought of.❤🎉
Willow and Giles should have been figured out how to turn Amy back seasons ago! The writers just forgot about her 😂😂😂 or couldnt get a hold of the actress lol
What ticks me off about Willow in this episode (and the whole magic as a drug metaphor) is that you'd think she'd have learned from what she did to Tara, why Tara was so angry and felt so betrayed, for having magic used on her to mess with her mind, especially after what Glory had already done to her brain. But here in this episode, Willow's gleefully affecting everyone in that club, against their will. I know Amy's kind of a bad influence in this regard, but it still makes me mad that Willow doesn't see it and she doesn't get what she did to Tara was so very wrong.
17:51. Go take a cold shower...we all had to when we firet saw it 😂
Buffy 6x9=69 😎👍
Welcome to "Buffy the vampire layer" 😉
I've been waiting for you to get here since you started shipping Spuffy
15:39 cause they are toxic!
My theory concerning Buffy and the control chip is that Buffy died. When Willow brought her back, there had to be some changes. Willow is going down a dark path. Magic has a price, and she hasn't been paying it.
I am watching you Buffy/Angel reactions and your Grimm reactions, so seeing the different hair confused me for a bit. 😅
Haha, I’m forever changing my hair 🙈😂
I just can't laugh at any of Warren's jokes. Not funny on rewatch.
I don't really agree here, Giles is IMHO wrong both in heart and head here. If we take the specific case of lecturing Dawn the real problem here is that neither Buffy nor Giles is the right people to do it. Buffy simply have no authority over Dawn (especially from Dawns viewpoint) being just a few years older and her sister, Dawn will never take anything that Buffy says seriously as guardian. From what we have seen so far actually the far better approach would have been Willow+Tara since Dawn seems to see them as her pseudo parents.
Buffy and Spike is hot- Buffy and Angel was lame AF imo
Angel’s lame, his hair goes straight up and he’s bloody stupid!
always h8 this part , the female stereotype who is hurting because trauma is using 6 to feel something and she does it with the worst possible people.....ofc I known a few females irl that done the same, to help them feel something, but I think it is still called a female stereotype?
1 of them bedded the "local medicine provider" who she h8ed, but who have made "flirting" comments to her, so she knew he was a safe bet, that he wanted her
Even if it's a stereotype what's the connection? For a woman. It's not like you just ended your relationship with a person you loved and you can't wait to have sex with someone or at least find someone new. Some girls do that. But there is no such here. What's the connection between creating violence and wanting sex during it? For a woman. It's more like what a man with trauma can do if we talk about stereotype. They beat the shit out of each other but Spike is a vampire also. What is she? Her having depression is like being a soulless vampire?
I really think that since the main person of the show was always Whedon even when he had other projects to work with but still nothing could be done without his approval. So they show more of a male perspective on things (if this man is a jerk) rather than what a woman would typically do. Here I don't think that they understand women well.
sorry but I have never ever heard of this behavior being specifically female in nature so cannot say that I understand how this could be a stereotype. Perhaps I have seen to few teen dramas or something, but honestly I don't believe that the writers would handle it different if Buffy had been male.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I find that last scene gross and incredibly cringy.
Literally makes me cringe every time from the comical zipping noise, the stupid music and the overly simulated bobbing up and down.