Convenience matters. Even if the bad guy “could get a gun if he really wants to”, that doesn’t mean he will. Putting up roadblocks and speed bumps will help.
The road blocks existed. Nobody really cared. All the signs were there. People pointed it out. Authorities ignored them. This guy showed so many signs. He was not hiding. Yet nobody cared. This speaks more about society than anything else. We will talk 5 minutes about this and then nothing will change. These boys will again be ignored. Rinse and repeat.
@@austingoyne3039 You have to understand that for this shooting to happen a lot of things had to go wrong. From the open door to the school, to the inexistent first response of the police and so many other things. There were roadblocks in place that became irrelevant due to people not caring. And yes...background checks should include social media posts. And stop selling guns to 18 year olds. Always fascinated me how in the US you can't drink alcohol until 21, but you can drive from 16 and own guns from 18.
@@Alnivol666 those are great ideas. Wholeheartedly agree with a new age restriction. My problem is with Republicans who act like just because some people fall through the cracks, gun laws don’t work. Of course they work.
@@Alnivol666 If Salvador Ramos couldn’t legally buy a firearm, he would need to set up a straw purchase. That could lead to an arrest. Or he would need to get into the secondary market. It’s possible, but requires some savvy, or connections, and he may not find the same type of weapon, or for the same price. People deliberately oversimplify this issue.
Asian people live in the USA as well, which means they have the exact same access to firearms, and yet their homicide rates are comparable to countries like Japan. Why is that?
@@fairlanemuscle Exactly. Well, more specifically Values, which usually come from your upbringing and environment. Seems like no one on the left wants to talk about this. Now, I think the Right are wrong in some ways but at least they are talking about culture in regard to this issue.
Ammo prices fluctuate so wildly that its not uncommon for people to stock up thousands of rounds during cheap periods to make it through 3-5 years of quadruple/quintuple prices. This does make sense for those that shoot regularly.
People who don’t shoot, or own multiple firearms, have absolutely no concept of this. Like you said, ammo prices go all over the place, and shortages happen all the time. A thousand rounds of ammunition, say 9mm for instance, is really nothing for someone who shoots regularly. Even if you only shoot a hundred rounds once a month, which is like a single, short range trip, your out of ammo in ten months. When you then want to buy another thousand rounds ten months later, you find out that either the supply has dried up for one reason or another, or that the price has now doubled or tripled from ten months previous. Your are now screwed, and this scenario is just for one firearm. Now imagine you own multiple, maybe some rifles, a shotgun, and a few handguns. This is why many gun owners stock up on thousands of rounds.
Absolutely. Many non-gun owners don't even know there's been a pretty bad ammo shortage over the last couple of years that is now starting to stabilize somewhat with retailers imposing limitations on the amount you can purchase at any one time.
It was great to hear Sam’s humanness. So many people joke that he’s always so calm, measured and composed, he may be along the psychopath spectrum. He clearly is not. He’s just very professional.
I disagree with Graham's point that the guy who sold the Uvalde shooter his gun should be made to feel worse and we should all know his name. I'm not into punishing people for the crime of being unable to predict the future.
Yeah I don’t know where he was going with that argument. Can’t exactly expect gun shop owners to quiz customers about what they plan on using a gun for and for all we know the shooter may have acted fairly normally when buying the gun.
Yeah this was a strange point to make considering he has just observed a few minutes earlier that psychos can present themselves in a totally affable manner when they want to
It’s trying to shift the blame. A business just does what’s legal. It’s legal to sell to a child. They can’t refuse to sell to a child because it’s their job. It’s up to the those who are writing these laws.
Yeah that's fucking insane. That's the type of talk that makes pro gun type people immediately shut down. Assuming he did the legally required background checks wtf is he suppose to do?
I know it's probably unpopular but Sam is right. The problem of gun violence is not the same problem as mass casualty massacres or suicides with a firearm. All are problems that need solutions but each problem needs its own solutions. There's no single answer for all of it.
I thought the same. Halfway through there is blatant faulty logic from a philosopher, who says that because semi-automatic assault rifles won't solve the "gun problem" they are not the problem. They sure were the problem at Uvalde, Sandy Hook etc. It is INSANE how the US can't see the forest for the trees.
@@slipknnnot the anti-gun crowd won't even let you mention the relative scale like you have when that's obviously an important fact and would be taken into account in any other topic...
With regard to media coverage of school shootings, here's what forensic psychiatrist Park Dietz said in a 2009 BBC interview; “We’ve had 20 years of mass murders throughout which I have repeatedly told CNN and our other media, if you don’t want to propagate more mass murders, don’t start the story with sirens blaring. Don’t have photographs of the killer. Don’t make this 24/7 coverage. Do everything you can not to make the body count the lead story, not to make the killer some kind of anti-hero. Do localize the story to the affected community and make it as boring as possible in every other market. Because every time we have intense saturation coverage of a mass murder, we expect to see one or two more within a week.” And he is but one of many in his field who've been saying this. Following the 2014 Seattle Pacific University shooting, Dietz complained in another interview that the media had completely ignored these warnings: “I have been on CNN at least three times saying, ‘If you keep this up, we’re going to have another one within two weeks,’” he said. “And I’ve been right all three times.” If the news media are finally beginning to heed the advice of Dietz and other threat-assessment experts, they've been mighty slow coming around.
@@radscorpion8 wonderful. Not a single mention of Fox News in the OP but somehow you read into his statement that “Fox News wouldn’t do this” despite him never having said that at all. God damn it’s so frustrating
Lol, so does that logic only apply to mass shootings or other coverage as well? Want to reduce murders, rapes and republicans winning elections simply never report on any of them. Pretend they never happen and it'll magically make it so. How many mass shootings can you name that happened this year? I can name 2-4 but the reality is within the first 21 weeks of the year there were 213 mass shootings and only a handful ever got national media coverage.
I don't listen to Sam as often as I once did, but I've never heard him made mute by his efforts not to erupt into sobs. I started bawling while I was reading this: "Angel Garza, a first responder and father of 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza, arrived at the school Tuesday and gave medical aid to a girl covered head-to-toe in blood. The girl said she'd seen her best friend killed -- and the best friend's name was Amerie. " 'How are you going to look at this girl and shoot her?'" Garza told CNN on Wednesday. 'My baby, how do you shoot my baby?'"
Those people choose to ingest what’s killing them. Nobody is showing up unexpectedly and forcing the drugs down their throat…. The comparison is nonsensical.
@@DY2784 Actually, that's exactly what is happening in many cases. There are people, who otherwise would never choose to use drugs, that become addicted to painkillers which were once been prescribed to them for legitimate reasons. Once their prescription runs out, their addiction takes them to street drugs. Purchasing prescription drugs off the street can be very expensive, and people often end up settling for cheaper, more dangerous options.
Oppressive - I feel that and I’m living in the UK. The gun tragedies that America continually has to deal with, makes it a third world country regardless of its many technical advances or progressive ideals. Fundamentally, if your children have to be trained to flee from a shooter, or your schools need armed guards, there is a degree of barbarism in your culture that makes it hard to differentiate between Iran or America. From the European perspective, the U.S. has a pop culture form of psychosis that glorifies violence and vengeance in no less a toxic way than any Jihadist. It is simply a tenet of American society that endorses a certain type of violence from birth, there is a disregard of basic humanity while promoting a visceral form of materialism, power and narcissism. This is a very potent mix, such that one would live in an environment that offers potentially every possible opportunity to realise dreams, and simultaneously the most vacuous experience if you fail to make your mark or are an outsider subjected to continual abuse. Despite having the profile of a free and democratic culture, it is intuitively known that Americas leaders are deeply corrupt and regard the honour of high office more an opportunity to generate personal wealth than to honour the constitution or work to create unity. In this respect it is a highly competitive arena where losing is not an option, there is simply no consolation for failure in a system that ultimately does not value the individual in any real meaningful way. The solution - noone has one, as long as a system is corrupt and as long as there is a justifiable reason for the second amendment, which there is, and as long as home invasions or carjackings are as high stakes as they are, U.S. Citizens are right to want to possess weapons. This is, or should be, a non-partisan issue, but of course it won’t be - rather it is an opportunity to accuse political opponents of murder and supremacy. From my perspective America simply is the advanced version of an African country, it is the bridge from grass hut to skyscraper but with a zealous, superstitious, idealistic tribalism, no different to an Ivory Coast warlord.
Europeans have spent the last 2000 years killing each other in order to endlessly reshape their national boundaries. Last century, you guys started two "Great" wars costing millions of lives. Please let me hear more about how America is a barbaric third world country and Europe is so civilized.
If you sat down and actually went over black on black gun crime data you would come away with a totally new perspective. The Democrat-run media has no interest muddying the waters and alienating the Democrat voter base. You sound like a propagandized fool. The number of innocent black children that are needlessly mowed down puts these school shootings to shame.
also from the uk. the Americans have a gun culture, they think it's normal democrats and republicans don't want to get rid of guns no matter even if mass shootings went up 1000%
@@stephenglover8828 I’m from the UK and immigrated here the US. I have guns, it’s the most natural thing in the world. Not only do I feel safe at home, it’s a great sport too. But perhaps most importantly, if you don’t believe the Left wing’s governments aren’t capable of authoritarianism and tyranny, then you haven’t been paying enough attention. If the Democrats try any funny business, they’ll be getting filled full of holes.
@@occamsblunderbuss great assessment. But not even close, I'm Thatcher's child and if I was in the US I would definitely be a Republican Gun control, or lack thereof, is a bipartisan thing, both are clueless If there was no gun culture there would be no guns, so you wouldn't need to own a gun to feel safe. But more importantly there wouldn't be mass shootings As for sports remember when that teenage girl lost control of an automatic weapon at the shooting range and shot her instructor. Great sport yeah I've lived in Singapore for 25 years, my daughter can go out in the middle of the city until 3am, she feels totally safe. No need to have a gun. Compare that to dangerous US cities. I'm glad to be living here, cheers
A note about running vs. shelter in place. SiP is a bad idea (IMHO) for the reasons given here, but everyone running simultaneously creates a new problem. Its a known issue about human psychology that when we flee in terror, we head to the last known entrance/exit. This was the situation of The Station nightclub fire where 100 people died trying to funnel through the entrance while several other exits were readily available. This could create a scenario where children are jam packed at a doorway creating a 'cannot miss' scenario for a shooter. Its why fire drills (including adult ones if you work Government buildings) are carried out in an orderly fashion.
an active shooter and a fire aren't completely analogous and a school is much more spread out than a nightclub. so not only would it be more staggered from each point to an exit unlike a fire many people will be emotionally compelled to act differently no matter what is taught. some will be too afraid to run and barricade themselves. some will exit through the closest window. some will hesitate and precede cautiously. some will immediately sprint to an exit. it's not like a fire where everyone instantly knows to just get out. and for that reason i wouldn't discourage any of it
You make some good points, but I think that the reasons you’ve stated here are exactly why most schools have active shooter drills now on a regular basis, and probably why they’ve been having tornado drills for forever. My kids started active shooter drills in elementary school, right after Sandy Hook. The teachers have to keep the classroom doors closed now, and every entry/exit door in the school stays closed and locked. They have cameras at the front doors and anybody coming in has to be buzzed in once the bell rings. In their elementary and middle schools, every classroom had a door that led outside, but only some of their classrooms in their high school had a second exit. All of these things make people feel safer, but it never did for me. I bought both my kids bulletproof backpack inserts that were supposed to be able to stop a bullet from an AR-15 (because that’s statistically the most likely weapon they would be faced with in a school shooting), and that made me feel a little better, but I ultimately told them as Graeme has said here to run if they can, and play dead if they can’t. I told them don’t try to be a hero, just try to survive. That makes me sad, but jfc, I’d always take an alive kid that ran than a dead kid that helped others get out. As valiant, courageous, and worthy of respect as many of the victims of past school shootings have been, no kid or teacher should ever even be put in a position where they could be a hero while protecting their friends/students from a rampaging gunman.
I don't like any of the solutions you people have offered up here. Sorry but all are too unsafe and slow, risky to a degree higher than is reasonable or necessary if better implementations are put in place. I have what are IMO much better alternative methods.
The buildings need to be able to drop a wall or a large part of them. A retrofit where it wall drops straight into the ground or a large portion- retracts or half retracts into the wall like a sliding closet door. This can decrease bottlenecks. Trampeling risks diminish if people disperse to a broad area.
When people can’t cope with emotions internally, they inevitably project this as anger outwards. When a person lacks the ability to introspect, this anger becomes boundless.
The Japanese termed it "Yukiko Syndrome" we know medias constant bombardment of tragedy can and does motivate the most vulnerable. Nearly EVERY mass murderer using social media before and during the act, afterwards the "news media" picks it up and perpetuates the story.
I was a police officer for ten years. I liken this problem with gun violence in this country to a drug addiction, like any addiction, until the pain of things staying the same exceeds the pleasure, the problem will not change. The thing that never seems to be talked about is how frequently it is the combination of alcohol and a gun that creates the disaster. The vast majority of crimes and incidents I investigated that involved a firearm, alcohol use was a factor. While virtually every state has laws on the book that prohibit the possession of a firearm while under the influence, within my own state, unless you were a convicted felon, an arrest made by a municipal officer for possessing a firearm while intoxicated while be disposed of through city court. Maximum penalty? 6 months in jail and a $500.00 fine. Usual consequence? Fine, court costs, and one year of unsupervised probation and yes, they will get their gun back.
@@MichalKaczorowski how about the theater massacre in France? Forgot about that one? They used AKs if I remember correctly that was illegal of them. They didn’t seem to obey the laws. Odd, that.
@@Slopdoggy he specifically said 'most of europe' France is not 'most of europe' It's one small part of Europe. And one small part of Europe does not counter the claim 'most of europe' It WOULD counter the claim 'all of europe' But not 'most' 🙄
@@jgreen2015 28 of America's 50 states have had zero mass shootings in their entire history's. Only 13 of Europe's 51 nations can say the same. Just saying things, don't mind me.
American society has become so degenerate, the violence merely a symptom. we are basically a wealthy south africa at this point. the lack of basic morality and values never seems to be addressed.
the violence is the disease if its you or your loved one being shot to death. the solutions to reducing the violence need to include gun control even if you think its "merely" a symptom, we still need to stop the bleeding, regardless to what the cause is AND address the cause(s). we can do both things at once.
Very little focus on why it's only America, the single best clue on how to solve this issue. If Sam's fear of eliminating guns leaving people unsafe in the face of a larger perpetrator is true, why are countries with stricter gun laws safer across the board? I don't really care about guns either way, but at the very least challenge your own beliefs on the matter, the real answer could just simply be American culture and not the number of guns, but reviewing the data should answer this....
"why are countries with stricter gun laws safer across the board" I'm not sure I'd say either Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, modern day Russia, modern day China, or early 1900's Turkey were "safer" than the modern US. I know I wouldn't want to be a minority living in any of those countries.
@@JL-ol8zg _Modern day Mexico also comes to mind._ But yeah, for those other examples, who cares about _other types of violence,_ like being melted in showers by chemicals by your government when you can't defend yourself because you gave away your right to self defense? What's a couple dozen million dead people? So long as they weren't killed _with guns,_ that's all that matters!
From someone from Australia with universal healthcare and generally no guns in the community, I really feel sorry for the Americans who can't see the alternatives - similar to the citizens in China who can't see the point of having democracy. Saddly even Sam Harris is trapped in this narrative, ignoring the basic human rights - safe and healthy living.
Queensland showed us that chinese state politics is making its way to a land down under. As for guns I'll keep mine and you can take those people that don't want them and feel thaey should amend the constitution so no one else can have guns.
You don't have the fatalism we Yanks do about actually having the government come together to do something. I'm 50, and for as long as I've been politically conscious at all, figure starting around 1982 or so, no one would entertain the notion that we could amend the Constitution at all. The 2nd Amendment is harder to change than Catholic dogma, and if you give 30% of the population veto power on advancement, there simply won't be advancement.
Those Chinese citizens would have a better chance at democracy with guns. Mao was right when he said 'power comes from the barrel of a gun'. Reminds me of a protest sign I saw in Hong Kong saying "we need a Second Amendment"
@@ngrovotny Yeah because we understand its a DEMOCRACY for a reason. Why have a democracy and vote people in when you can't trust them unless you have a gun to kill them. What kind of paranoid backwards society do you live in? If you can't trust your government on that level and build a healthy realtionship then how do expect anything good to come to you when your system is run by fear. Living in fear is not freedom its control. And why do you guys not have compulsory voting like us in Australia? How can trust your leaders when not even the whole country has voted? Thats just dumb.
'No chance that handguns will ever get banned' - meanwhile Canada is banning handguns entirely. Different country yes but interesting Sam said that the same day Trudeau announced the exact thing Sam says will never happen.
He didn't actually ban handguns, he put a stop to the import of additional handguns and to transferring ownership of existing handguns. All the people that currently have them keep them. That's Canada not the US, the gun lobby owns at least half the politicians in the US and a majority of the judges, no gun ban would ever survive long enough to be put in effect.
Canada and the US are VERY different when it comes to firearms. Different population levels, different culture, different material realities on the ground.
There were two ideas in this podcast that made sense to me. 1. In every class room where possible there should be a second exit, preferably to the outside and 2. RUN. I can see an entire school emptying out in seconds leaving the shooter with no one left to shoot at except those coming to shoot him.
Iam from Canada. I have an 8 & 10 yr old. When I research the schools that might kids go to, I don’t think about 1 or 2 exits. Armed guards, or bullet proof glass. Seriously How can anyone bring up these issues. Americans scream about their exceptionalism. They are exceptional compared to all most all countries on the planet, who don’t ponder whether teachers should carry guns. Cognitive dissonance times 10
Love this conversation, but I must take exception to the idea that guns are "rarely abused" in Israel. This is demonstrably untrue, regardless of how you feel about Israel.
@@satireofcircumstance6458 Well, not necessarily. The main reason I respect Sam's body of work is his capacity and disposition for clear thinking and sincerity. I would not expect his Jewish background to inform his opinions. With that said, there's a couple things I've heard Sam say about Palestinians and Palestine which I find shockingly unfair. I still can't help but love his content and the conversations he engages in. But its a little painful for me, personally, not gonna lie.
What do you mean by this? How are guns abused in Israel? As far as I can tell, as an Israeli, they're mostly uses in criminal organizations, and especially so in the Arabic population which has a huge gun violence problem.
The truth is that the United States has a rampant mental health crisis and I will be the first to admit that it's difficult to really see where it begins or ends but there is something going on that cannot be ignored.
Remove suicides and the black population and the conversation around crime is vastly different. “School shootings” also include people who are targeting particular individuals and also people who were killed by accidental discharges that happened to be on school grounds. The vast majority are not random mass killings.
Frustrating and confusing listening and watching from Australia. We just don’t understand how and why in the 21st-century guns are allowed to proliferate throughout society. All cultures have cultural problems and this is one of America’s.
They and us have the same CULTURAL problem. The same one throughout most of the West, culminating soon after 30 years of decline. When it comes to guns though, it's apples and oranges and no point comparing the two. The underlying reasons for the resulting large pool of guns in America are so foundational to the American spirit , they will never give them up and are less and less likely to as the cultural decline continues. And they certainly won't under a prevailing sentiment of defunding the police and going soft of crime.
What's unique about this century that makes the need for self defense, using the arm of the day, obsolete? On a personal level, as Sam observed, a firearm equalizes many situations otherwise strong and aggressive men impose thier will. For larger scale external threat, see Ukraine.. large scale internal threat; I would guess a significant portion of the US left believes former president Trump was just one phone call or insurrection away from becoming a dictator.. what was their plan if that happened? Protesting? As an Aussy, you're Government went nearly tyrannical using Covid as an excuse.. what was the plan if things had turned out differently? Just swim to a free state?
So, Garcia. What should the people of the Ukraine have done and do/continue to do ? should they have turned in 100% of their firearms and then continue to reject firearms during the Russian invasion and what should they do after? give up all their firearms?
My father is a prime example of someone who’s a serious about firearms as one could be. Growing up we would go to the range just a handful of times not Lots of times. He would clean them properly. He instilled in me a sense of danger while yielding them which commands respect everytime I even see one. He told me times he’d compete in target competition. We would only shoot maybe a few dozen rounds- just enough to stay current in his mind. It’s fun but would never ever conjure up a Wild West attitude in my father. He always was just serious and respectful of them and taught me how to shoot with basic defense skills. Love you dad
good for you! now, let's go back to the ones who buy 2000 rounds , two assult rifles , write a manifesto, and shoot 17 kids. i don't care about the RESPONSIBLE gun owners as long as kids are dying, you can RESPONSIBLY give up yours if they don't have them too right? i mean , are you THAT attached to your toys?
Canada is banning handguns today. Their is a much deeper reason this stuff is happening around the world . Some of you wont know why we are the way we are until its too late .
As an Australian, I agree. It feels like America is doomed, when the problem of guns is being posited as solve-able with “more guns”. Surely if anything is evident from the police not entering the room, it’s that even armed police are afraid of guns, and by extension that guns really are the problem. Besides if a teacher had a handgun, all a shooter needs to do is shoot first?
School shootings were not a thing prior to the 90's. Did Americans have less guns before the 90's? Of course not. In fact, children were encouraged to bring guns to school as late as the 70's for shooting lessons. Do you know how many mass shootings occurred in schools between 1900 and 1970? Zero. Discussing tools and not the motivation behind the use of those tools is most nonsensical crap imaginable. Maybe we should discuss the fact that most of these kids are all on anti-depressants, which they were not prior to the 90's, or that they all seem to come from broken homes. Maybe for this particular case we should be discussing the absurdity of providing a monopoly on firearm ownership to the people who will not protect us and will arrest us if we try to protect our children . . .
Because America is the only country in the world with mental health problems, right? The issue is multi-faceted. Exponential increases in mental health problems coupled with access to firearms. You can't legislate depression and anxiety. People are not deciding to massacre children simply because they had a bad reaction to their Lexapro.
The unique U.S. mass shooting problem is not going to solve by changing only 1 or 2 things, because it's an extremely complex problem of tens of major factors, involving people's fears, justifications, obsessions, craze, and delusions. No math required: The odds of ever achieving a solution to this is nil. Good luck America.
there's a similar amount of psychos in the UK or canada, they simply don't have easy unrestricted acted to automatic firearms even in Israel (which is a relatively militaristic society, where every male and even female has a 2-3 year mandatory army service) - you have to get a LICENSE to get a gun, and that in itself is something that prevents a lot of unnecessary gun victims
This conversation really lacks data. The simple question is this: In the US, what is the probability that a gun (AR15 or hand gun) bought by a civilian will A: harm an innocent (through aggression or self-harm) B: help someone in self-defense I don't have the data (it may not be easy to get). But my prior is A vastly outweighs B. If that's the case, when Sam and Graeme are saying "Since there is a slight possibility B may happen to me, we must accept A as a society" (plus guns are fun), I hope they do recognize this is the choice they are making.
Data is actually pretty difficult to get, the NRA has repeatedly sued to obscure as much information as possible about gun violence to prevent research from occurring.
I can tell you that the "FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table 8," which is very easy to find, will give you some of the data you seek. There are fewer than 400 murders annually in which the murderer used a rifle as a weapon. The table doesn't break down rifles into specific types, but rifles of all types are used as murder weapons in fewer than 400 murders per year. 400 in a country of 335,000,000 citizens and legal residents and perhaps another 20,000,000 without legal status. According the CDC, 41,000 people are killed annually by *other people's* tobacco smoke.
Its roughly estimated there's between 500k-3mil defensive uses of firearms per year in the US. It will vary by years. Many of those cases go unreported. Many cases nobody ever actually has to shoot. Deaths minus suicide by gun usually tends to hover around 25k-35k a year the last few years I believe. So FAR lower than defensive uses when I look at CDC estimates.
As a conservative who was raised in a liberal household (not in one with good rational arguments such as yours), I can appreciate your very nuanced and intelligent views on a this subject (and many others). When listening to you, I tend to give you unfair criticism and that is wrong. Although I may not always agree with you, you are truly a gem of a mind and DEFINITELY worth listening to.
As a Dutch person, I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for any pro-gun argument. It is abundantly obvious that societies where private citizens don't own and carry murder devices are safer and more pleasant to live in (all other things being equal). The Second Amendment is poison.
“All other things being equal” do you think all other things are actually equal? Also, do you think the 2nd Amendment is just “poison” and nothing else?
Prefacing your position with "As an X" is nonessential and in no way augments your arguments or position in general. To the contrary it's quite distracting.
@@thedaveastator7939 It provides information about the experience of the person making the argument, namely that he lives in a gun-free society, which shapes his point of view. So, I wouldn't say it's irrelevant.
I have no idea where Sam was going with this pod cast. The guest isn't there to challenge and Sam in any case is all over the place. He wants guns securely locked away, but argues for them as a deterrent. What invader is going hang around while your go to your safe, it either at your side or its useless. He suggests the world would be overrun by the biggest strongest without guns, completely glossing over the fact that those with biggest strongest guns do hold swathe of the world. I welcome his heartfelt emotions but I don't begin to understand America's fetish with firearms, he almost admitted its the fun he derives from shooting a gun that colours his opinion not practicality of self defence. I'll never understand Americans attachment to guns nor forgive them collectively for their intransigence in doing anything to address the fundamental problems they cause their society.
He also said American gun culture needs to change, he opposes the NRA, and it should be far more difficult to obtain guns. It sounds like you're coming from one of the typical sides of the debate - and indeed, it's a defensible position - but as usual, Sam has a more nuanced and centrist position than either of the typical poles on the scale.
@@ArcadianGenesis And here we have a classic example of both-sidism with a false center - your characterization of Sam's position. On one side the US with the highest incarceration rate, guns per person, death by guns and military violence inflicted on the world of all developed democracies. On the other side the lowest rate of all the above as found in all developed democracies except the US.
There are an enormous number of criminals in the US compared to other countries. If anything, there should be more people in jail, or quite frankly, just executed.
@@twntwrs Your facts are misleading. The US doe snot have the highest number of deaths by guns per capita. In fact if you remove the drug gang violence from the equation the US is extremely responsible with guns. The Gang violence occurs almost entirely in democrat controlled cities with strict gun laws.
The fetish is self defense. You are your own first line of defense, not the police who have no obligation to defend you in America. You should also own a fire extinguisher and first aid kit because the fire truck and ambulance cannot magically appear instantly. Early life saving measures are key. Guns are used massively in self defense, you are fine with hiding in your closet waiting for the police, I am not. The data on violent home invasions is real. I don't need to be tortured and killed in my own home while I beg for my life. We both have a human right to self preservation and a gun is the most reasonable equalizer to ensure your survival. The problem is soft targets and social health issues.
Coming from the UK, with our clearly different culture for these things, I take issue with the opening premise: That the little guy needs guns to protect himself/herself from the big bully, and that 911 is ineffective. The concept that I might so provoke someone larger than myself that they will want to beat me to death (and therefore my shooting him is a commensurate response) or that lawlessness is at such a high level that you might just get assaulted and robbed on every street corner seems flawed.
Your own analysis is hopelessly flawed. It isn't about provoking someone or being robbed on the street. The example given is someone entering your home to burglarise/home invasion etc. Sam Harris gets death threats. I don't blame him for wanting a firearm given, if people enter his home with the intention to harm him, that could be his only defence
Absolutely, finally a sensible comment. I'm from India, I'm shocked to see an intellectual like Sam Harris supporting guns for defense. Why can't the people of US understand that if guns are altogether banned, nobody needs it, neither for defense or offense.
@@richardbantin9900 Sam was not making an argument over his own gun use, he made the statement that the little guy needs a gun to stop the bigger guy always dominating him. This just leaves me wondering about the general danger smaller people have while walking the streets of US towns and cities, if they were not to have guns in their pockets to protect them! It is no longer the 1830s, right?
@@sonusabir12 A very popular counter to this comment you hear from americans is "the bad guys will get guns, even if you ban them". Which in itself is totally nonsensical.
Excellent discussion. However, I have these questions which could illuminate:: Why focus on vetting new gun owners when there are already 300,000,000 guns out there? What percentage of mass shooters did not buy their guns? What percentage of gun murderers used guns that were not registered to them? What percentage of existing guns are even registered? Has an NRA member ever been involving in a mass shooting? What percentage of convicted gun murderers have been NRA members? What percent of gun murders involve a violent criminal killing another violent criminal? What would the effect of ending the failed drug war have on overall gun violence ? The answers to the above would I think change the tenor of the discussion.
Yes, Sam Harris seemed to think that it was going to be solved in a single podcast, and yet all these important questions were glossed over. I'm finding this increasingly the case both with Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson - they spend so much time waffling and very little time actually letting the interviewee actually talk.
Dude, most of these questions look like they were ripped straight out of an NRA propaganda website that have little to do with the subject at hand. You come across as being incredibly disingenuous
@@Ancor3 I took a different take, and one the NRA would certainly not support! Basically those questions lead you to one conclusion: Changing gun laws is largely ineffective for one simple reason: The USA is drenched in guns. Its like debating how to rainproof your coat when you're 10 feet underwater. The only way to solve the issue is to remove all guns in America with the exception of law enforcement, the military and people with specific licenses and those who keep them in a separate, secure location. Extreme? Its how most industrialised countries (you know, the ones where gun massacres are almost unheard of) operate.
1. Because every new gun that gets into circulation is a problem. Vetting new owners is basic common sense and should have been happening for a long time already. Just because there’s lots of guns in circulation doesn’t mean you give up implementing checks on the new ones, it’s better late than never. 2. Not sure, although in this instance the school shooting happens with a gun legally registered to a kid who bought 2 ARs weeks after he turned 18. 3. Don’t know that figure, clearly not a significant percentage 4. Again, not sure, but the NRA have directly lobbied politics to enact looser gun regulation and expanded bullshit laws around stand your ground, pushed back on any proposed background checks on purchase etc. They’ve unquestionably made things worse. Just because they didn’t pull the trigger doesn’t mean they haven’t put more ARs into more peoples hands. If there’s no NRA the assault weapons ban that expired after 10 years probably gets reinstated. 5. This is the question that makes me feel like you’re just deflecting? Why does this matter? We’re talking about the school shooting problem which have happened again and again for 20-30 years. I’m pretty sure none of those children were ‘violent criminals’. No other country on earth has the level of mass shootings that the US does. 6. I feel the same with your question here on the war on drugs, yes there’s some overlap in the Venn diagram with drugs and guns, but if we can’t even get basic background checks done in the political arena what makes you think ‘ending the war on drugs’ whatever that means, could be achieved? You mean legalising cocaine, heroin, meth etc right? That’s a complete non-starter in this political climate. If you don’t mind me saying, these questions feel like deflections. At this point it’s not on the gun control side to disprove all the gun lobby’s contrived hypothetical questions, which are designed to muddy the debate and play out the news-cycle, - clearly the current status quo is not working and after every school shooting we do nothing. In every other country where they’ve implemented gun ownership measures the mass shooting / gun homicide rate went down. In the US people die repeatedly from mass shooting done by weapons of war that have no business in the civilian populations hands, enough is enough. I’m not saying gun control would solve everything, but it would have some impact that would save lives. We need background checks, better storage and red flag laws, and an assault weapons ban.
I am not american, but from northers Europe. My thoughts after listening to this episode is.... why not learn from Europe? Create a (modern! Not a wild west) society! Isn't it about time? In Europe we don't have any "right to bear arms", and school shootings are very very rare. We also often have a totally free (mental) health care.... And only selling guns to mentally stable people will not work, since a mentally stable person can suddenly become unstable, for example a man whos wife suddenly (and for no good reason) want to divorce him and take his children away and take a huge chunk of his income for decades to come.... a situation that increase the su1cide risk 10x for such a man....
@@skullkrusher4418 we have a very different view of, and history with, guns in this country. It doesn’t matter how other countries have dealt with things in this context.
@@paolung It matters if what people care about is reducing suffering due to gun violence. If owning guns matters more to Americans than being safe then there's no argument to be had in the first place. Guns will be prolific and people will die. I think this whole problem stems from Americans' obsession with freedom altogether.
last time i checked over in your area you have more stabbings and nearly as many murders as we do here with a smaller population, and that doesnt even get to the problem with taking guns away, hows your freedom of speech going? hows your freedom to travel going? when you give up your ability to protect yourself then those in charge will abuse that power, if you cant refuse they cant do anything about it, heres the simple fact that people seem to avoid saying, You shouldn't trust your government, they need to be watched or they will abuse the power, hence why america has a check and balance system that has stopped people in power form taking over for generations now. in america specificly our government has run mind control operations drugging random citizens for months until they killed themselves, they have made deals to sell out our country and our welfare, the only reason they cant sell the country in one swift transaction is our guns. if you think those in power dont try to push their power beyond their limits, you've never interacted with a single person in any management position in any circumstance.
@@paolung That is a sorry excuse if one actually reads the second amendment. The society that comes closest to it? The Swiss. A vibrant gun culture, during the Cold War every militiaman had an assault rifle and several boxes of military ammunition at home... but being swiss that militia was obviously well regulated.
The "common denominator" in almost all of the mass shootings is the "zero value" that the shooter ascribes to not only the lives of others, but to their own. If you believe that your life is worthless or meaningless, and that others are solely to blame for that, it certainly facilitates these types of horrific actions. It's ridiculously redundant to say that a happy, well-adjusted person is not going to do insane things like this. You are dealing with tormented people who have no hope in life.
@@joshsimpson10 lol and religion doesn't?? Tell me when was the last time an atheist flew a plane into a building or started a war in the name of Atheism? Never. Because atheism is simply saying i dont believe you because there's no evidence? Why you far right wings harch on about 'facts over feelings' but then go home a pray to your imaginary friend will continue to amaze me. Hypocrisy at its best.
@@joshsimpson10 Deism is self delusion. I do agree, however, that atheism can and does produce "despair", but then again most people can't "handle" the truth, which gives religion an important purpose for many.
I live in San Antonio, TX, and I went to one of the Uvalde memorials for the 21 victims, (plus the husband of one of the teachers) on Saturday. This was my first visit to one of these memorials....it was incredibly sad and shocking seeing each individual memorial for the victims. On the other hand, the sense of unity and community is something I haven't felt since 911.
Ive only listened to the first 15 minutes, but Sam so far you sound a bit out of it. Do you think that people in Canada , Australia and many European countries are living in worlds where the big guy always wins and the little guy is just constantly being pushed around/ robbed? And somehow the US is uniquely not living in said world because of high gun ownership. It honestly sounds like a gun nuts fantasy. We can look at crime rates in these countries with strict gun laws and much lower to little gun ownership and we know this isnt the case. If anything I would say the US embodies this description even more due to the high crime rates and gun ownership. It is a bit of a John Wayne fantasy to think that if someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night that your going to get to your gun locker open it and take them out, sure its better than nothing but I would say the odds are probably still against you. Invest in better security if your worried, you can afford it. I live in Canada btw. We do have gun ownership here but there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through and you cant just shoot someone breaking into your home , you could end up being charged with murder. Self defense is not a legitimate reason for gun ownership in Canada according to our laws.
I don’t think you can compare the US to any country in Europe or Canada given its vast cultural differences and goal of maximizing individual liberties.
I thought the same thing. The need to have a gun just in case a bigger guy breaks into your home is laughable. And what happens if a big guy breaks into your home, Sam? He beats you up and takes your watch since neither party has guns. So what? Is that less acceptable to you than everyone having a gun and this same big bad guy has a bad day and walks into a classroom and sprays his AR15? Oh yeah - your watch. Forgot about that.
@@anshumanmisra3415 so you would rather submit everyone in society to the most violent aspects of it to avert a statistical anomaly? Not to mention the idea of getting rid of all guns to fit your utopian scenario is a pipe dream and therefore just mental masturbation. Having a gun in your home to protect yourself versus someone else deciding to commit an atrocity has a tenuous link at best.
The reason I created my channel is the issue of handguns. Handguns are the last guns anyone wants to ban, while they are involved in most shootings. Also, most handguns used in homicides are stolen guns.
I liked the nuanced discussion for the most part. One thing that was proposed here that is quite dangerous, however, is holding sellers of a legally obtained firearm liable for the actions of a shooter after the fact. It should be obvious why this is an absolutely horrible idea, but trying to punish outside of the proper realm of accountability is something that has no end. You could just as easily draw a link to political affiliation or celebrity influence and start assigning blame to people with bad ideas. At the end of the day, only those directly involved in the incident should be held to account - that is the legal standard and I see no reason why that would change now or in 100 years.
I think they were discussing that more in the situation where there would be already tighter gun control. If there are measures in place at every gun store that are legally required to ensure that a weapon doesn't get sold to the wrong person, and then the gun seller doesn't abide by those measures and sells a gun to someone who then uses it for mass murder, I think there is a legitimate discussion regarding reprimanding the store owner. Not sure what it's like in America, but here in Canada, bartenders and waiters can be held legally responsible if they serve too much alcohol to a customer who then gets in their car and drives home and gets in a lethal accident injuring themselves or someone else. Similarly, it's the responsibility of a store owner to make sure they don't sell alcohol/weed/cigarettes to someone under age. This type of responsibility regarding the selling of guns is something I think should definitely be on the table. But obviously there would have to be researched measures to be put in place.
@@skullkrusher4418 I think doubling up there on something that would already be illegal overcomplicates things though. It is illegal, for example, to sell alcohol to a minor. If we want tougher punishment for the crime, I think that's fine and is easy to implement. Exponentially assigning blame based on crimes committed on top of that negligence is messy and difficult to execute in law. Regardless, I think the key issue here is not more laws but rather better oversight and implementation. In this particular shooting, all laws were followed and I don't see any reasonable implementation that could prevent this from occurring at the gun acquisition level. You could say that the police failing to do their job caused many more too die, but see how holding people accountable via negligence isn't so clear cut?
@@theguythatiam Yeah I know what you mean. I was more just stating that there is at least some sort of precedent for those types of laws. I see why holding people accountable for negligence in this scenario doesn't make sense. But that's because there isn't clear or at least stringent enough (imo) legislation regarding who can be sold a gun. For example, if a law were put in place that you needed to present results of a recent psychiatric evaluation to a store owner in order to be able to buy a gun, but then a store owner sold someone a gun without asking for proof of psychiatric evaluation, then the owner of the gun store SHOULD be held partially responsible. That's more the kind of thing I was talking about, hence why I mentioned that new regulations would have to be put in place BEFORE what they were talking about would make sense. But I think there is indeed room for discussion here.
Regarding the discussion about Israel: there are a lot of guns, but they are carried by military and police patrolling the streets. Recently, it's been easier for citizens to get gun permits, but it is still much easier in states like Texas and I would guess the per-capita number of weapons owned by citizens is lower in Israel by at least an order of magnitude. One thing that makes the security challenge in Israel simpler is that most of the violence occurs in sensitive areas (such as the Muslim quarter in the old city of Jerusalem). Another factor is that the source of the violence is contained to that second one Sam mentioned, of ideological murderousness. And even if these people are doing something despicable, they are trying to some extent to appeal to a general public, of non-murderous people, so they would usually have some boundaries, such as not trying to shoot up schools or hospitals. Yet another simplifying factor is that the violence is perpetrated predominantly by Arabs who are easy to identify from a simple verbal exchange, and they are usually more seriously frisked and watched. But another thing to realize about Israel is that public places that are densely crowded ARE like fortresses, including schools and hospitals. A lot of schools are surrounded by high fences and have a single entry point, with an armed security guard standing there. Hospitals are even more heavily guarded, and malls often are too. In general, with a lot of experience from multiple-casualty events, and over the course of decades, the Israeli society has developed a very strong and wise and successful security philosophy (and I say that even though I disdain the militarism in this society, which is quite related).
The USA killed more muslims than the other way round. Its not a surprise that a warloving nation has domestic violence. Lets talk Klartext here: America is far worse in violence, murder and rape than all european countries and most islamic countries, with the exception of russia. So your solution is higher walls, police everywhere and so on. In europe we dont need walls and overpolicing. It just shows the collapse of social order this countries created (mostly on purpose). Wise would be to address mental health problems in the USA. And its very naive to compare the USA to the Israel and Palestine conflict, since Israel occpies another country. You cant even address the far right ideology which made this happen in the first place. Basicly neonazis talking points lead to the most recent shotings. Why not address this? But you are talking about arabs. Israelic jews dont care about neonazis anymore...
@@mbburry4759 Yeah, I think it's safe to say we were all pretty shocked. There was a widely held misconception about the capabilities and willingness-to-commit-horror of Hamas
@@bandit6272 He is. He is a gun owner or did you not listen to it and just scroll the comments to spread ya right wing gun loving garbage you guys always spew.
What if he just wants a gun. By crime, what are you talking about that is substancially diffrent from other nations both in lower and upper class brackets.
He feels he needs a gun because he has written a number of anti-Islamic articles and books, and has had credible death threats, at a time when Islamic terrorism was common. The US doesn't have particularly high crime rates, when considered on a World scale. The incarceration rates have something to do with the unsuitability of the American system. There are a percentage of people who cannot operate within the Western system, and in other Western countries, the government takes care of them. It seems that most Americans believe that they run a system in which anyone can succeed if they try, which is delusional.
If that's so, it's more than worth it. That's pretty much the point of the rule of law, the point of a constitution, the point of the separation of powers, the point of liberal democracy as a whole: you don't just overthrow everything bcs people died and you're mad. You don't build a totalitarian state just bcs you think it's safer. You don't give up fundamental freedoms to save lives. Liberal democracy among other things means that there are more important things than mere survival.
Americans arguing about the best way to take a drug....maybe quit the drug itself. Learn from others around the world, although that's not really the American way...
@@fairlanemuscle global data is actually fairly clear. Short of war torn countries people around the world don't feel the need to keep guns and countries have made it really difficult to own one. As for countries like Switzerland, they actually own more guns per capita than the US, but proper training and proper laws have kept guns in the hands of responsible people....no Mass murders to speak of.
I take a look at Australia over the last year or two after handing in their guns and I’ve got to say: no thanks. Enjoy your country without guns and I’ll enjoy mine with guns.
Sam is questioning the sense of raising this issue in the immediate aftermath of a shooting. But this problem is resolving itself, as there is never a time in the US which is not the immediate aftermath of a shooting.
Right now isn't. All anyone asks for is one day. You can even say right after this day of mourning we are going to talk about it. But one hour after it happens for commentators on major news networks to say 2A people have blood on their hands....that's not a discussion. And anyone who has that sentiment, is absolutely a terrible person. They do this because they don't really have any ideas that would stop this besides a mandator confiscation.
I live in the UK. Never seen a gun apart from armed forces (on parade) and police at the airport and in London after July 07. I wouldn't even know how to go about getting a gun. Don't want to know either.
@@davegold I don't wash my food, I'm a decade late on some vaccines and I repair stuff at home that I have no business repairing. But I don't force everyone else to make all of the same choices I do.
Please remember about the aspect of concealment for handguns. Fear of the unknown. I live safely in the UK, but I would be horrified going outside knowing (not knowing) that a every single person I pass on a street can have weapon on him/her... My humble solution for a gun laws? Handguns: Banned due to small size and how easy it is to conceal them (fear factor is the reason after every shooting gun sales skyrockets) Shotguns; (big, easy to use for adults, difficult for children, limited ammo and range); Allowed for protection and for hunting (usually birds), Assault rifles, SMG's: Banned; Bolt action rifles: Allowed for protection and hunters (if you really call yourself a hunter you kill an animal with a single shot). Rifles are big, heavy and have limited ammunition in the clip. Tough compromise but as long as nobody is happy I think it's a good one.
Or they can move over to your side of the pond or move to Canada. Plus yall are losing your ability to have cultural freedom of speech for fear of offending people. I think yall would do well to find a country that prescribes to your way of doing buisness. I'll stick it out right here under the constitution and the bill of rights. Yall can go play big brother else where.
I live in Australia and am pretty happy that we are not flooded with firearms here. That said, if I lived in the US I would probably buy one. It seems like you have gone beyond the point of no return over there. It seems rather silly to me that it is easier to get a gun than to get a driving license in many states. Also, the age where people are seen as responsible enough to drink is 21, yet 18 is the gun purchase age. Your country and your business, but that just seems odd the outside looking in
@@acetate909 they're just so use to living somewhere where everything want to kill them that they're totally ok with their government wanting to as well.
@@acetate909 Exactly. Bet the Chinese wish they had a Second Amendment. (Just remembered a protest sign in Hong Kong saying something to the effect of, "we need a Second Amendment")
I don't own a gun, but I always find it cute when an Australian says they're thankful they don't have tons of guns in their country. The cognitive dissonance to make such a statement is astounding lol. Australians not having guns is exactly how and why their citizens were rounded up and put into camps during COVID (and still now).
Listening from Europe, with none I know owner of a gun, except for a friend in a shooting club with small air pistol, many statements in this conversation are so alien to me. And hearing Sam Harris, who is supposed to be one of the big thinkers of the time, making such statements like "a world without guns is the one where the strong wins " etc is so shocking (how come can he be so biased with an American way of living). It feels like listening to some Mayan guys discussing about how "responsible use of human sacrifice" is normal and necessary rtc. I can't continue listening to a conversation based on such biased and nonsense arguments.
Not to mention the idea of “swarming the shooter”, or “gouging his eyes while he changing magazine”: ordinary people are not MMA fighters, and are not a trained military outfit. Actually, even armed policemen with training (as seen in Texas, or in the other school shooting in Florida) have a hard time confronting a demented shooter who seeks a “suicide by bullet”. Sadly, most of this podcast is nonsense.
@@perhapsyes5745 If the duty of protecting the citizens from violence is delegated to the citizens themselves, what is the point of having a law-enforcement department like the police department? It is an extremely dangerous and absurd idea to expect that common people can take the responsibility of defending themselves with firearms. It is like expecting a mob to deliver justice in the case of legal disputes between people.
@@sonusabir12first of all, that's not actually an answer to the question. Secondly, the Supreme Court has answered that question by stating LEOs do not have a responsibility to protect citizens. But say you are right that they do, how does that show an intrinsic flaw with Sam's reasoning. The reason people rely on yhe police is because they are the strongest in the case of police without firearms. And in america the reason they are the strongest gest is because they have firearms. Just because the strongest person who wins happens to be the good guys in a specific instance, only emphasizes Sam's point, it does not disregard it.
I've thought about it a lot and offer a policy suggestion that is by no means bulletproof (excuse the pun) but it's one that, I believe, could lower the statistical likelihood the owner would carry out a mass shooting event. Anyone 18-21 wishing to purchase an AR-15 or other high capacity weapon (even a handgun) must get a reference/referral from 3 adults age 25 and above. To reduce hesitance, a referring party would not be legally liable should the weapon be used for a mass shooting event, it does however, provide the community some sort of relational voucher, i.e., "Yeah, I know the kid, he's been working in my landscaping business for 2 years. He's nice, reliable, and responsible. I haven't observed him get angry or seen him frustrated or depressed during our working relationship." There could be a series of 8 - 10 questions the referring adult, (who knows the candidate over a period of several months or a year) might check off relating to the candidates character, maturity and mental health. The referral idea is responding directly to a feature or pattern, that is the profile of dangerous mass killing perpetrators often being loners and reclusive types, individuals not likely to be, 'in the mix' or engaged in relationships, healthy socialization activities and some aspect of work or community involvement whereby they could get 3 individuals who know the candidate to vouch for their character.
This is one of the best ideas I've heard so far. It won't drastically reduce the issue of overall gun violence in the US, and will be seen by many as a violation of the 2A, but a good idea nonetheless when it comes to mass shootings perpetrated by young males.
It's an interesting idea, deny anyone who doesn't have at least 3 friends a gun. Of course, even if the NRA were to be some insane miracle not put every resource at their disposal to destroy this before it could get passed they'd do the next best thing and setup a gun friend referral program so all those loners could call in and get the necessary number of NRA adults to sign off on their purchase, for a fee of course, this is America after all.
@@bleach219 no doubt, people will seek to game the policy but I have a conceal carry and I needed to provide 2 'non-related' references in my request form. I also needed a clean record. Could I have manufactured my referrals, maybe? Could I have checked the, 'not convicted of any crime' box on the form if I was convicted, (hoping I wouldn't show up in a database)? Maybe but not likely. As for the, "gun friend referral program", there could be penalties for making fraudulant referral claims and this is where phoning a friend becomes a liability to the lying friend. You're not wrong. People can and do spend time trying to get past or around restrictions but I'm looking for ways to reduce, not eliminate risk. As they say, never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That said, ain't NOTHING gonna change so maybe we'll comment on the next mass shooting. tick, tock....
it's not that it's a bad idea, Lenett, it's just that it's not going to solve the problem. look at Chicago and the gun violence. it's INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to purchase a gun in Illinois. i would personally make it more challenging to purchase and own firearms, but that isn't going to stop disenfranchised young men from killing people.
20:33 Tis an example of one of our problems as a society: we think of those killed by school or other mass shootings as the "number of dead". It is difficult to put our arms around the fact that these are the same "number of lives lost" and all the trauma and loss to individual people and families and how these other lives suffer irreparable harm. Egregiously missing always, in all these conversations (by almost everyone) are those wounded ~ some paralyzed even ~ some losing limbs or eyes or faces. Just tragic stuff ~ forever for them.
This talk about school design reminded me of my schools and uni building in the Netherlands and Germany. Each classroom had exit to the outside, above ground level each class had exit to scaffolding permanently around. They did this for fire safety but in case of active shooter we all could just walk outside without any problems.
@@erikkovacs3097 I like the way you put that, and yes, With my TH-cam channel I’m basically creating a place for regular people to share and challenge each other’s ideas. If you want to give it a shot, send me a message and we’ll set something up, my contact info in the “about” section of my channel.
The way those two "rationalize" gun culture is a mental break down to my European mind. I think this might the the first time that I get that disappointed by Sam Harris as an Intellectual whom I used to respect; he definitely lost some point today. All in all, this conversation taught me that the schism between the two sides of the Atlantic ocean goes much deeper than I initially had thought...
I felt the same way. The whole “you need to be able to protect yourself” point is such an American dogma. How likely is that violent home invasion he uses as en excuse to be armed? I bet he lives in a well policed neighbourhood. How useful would that gun be if it is truely well stored as he claims? Women that encounter violence are so often shot by their partners, male family members etc, having a gun in the house doesn’t level the playingfield for them either.
I'm generally against guns and don't want them in my life, but I thought Sam made a good point when he said "a world without guns is a world where the biggest, strongest, most trained, and most numerous always win." What do you think of that?
@@Jimbo5900 He's a typical EU gun control superiority complex type. Guns are evil and people who support them are evil, no exceptions, no listening to good points from other side, nope, it's either you support murder or you support civilization. They crop up every time one of these tragedies happens and they loom in with their "see, what did we tell you?"
@@ArcadianGenesis I feel like it's because if that was truly the case, then everywhere else in the world where gun ownership is severely restricted this would be happening....but it's not. Very restrictive gun laws where I live and yet not once have I been accosted by someone bigger and stronger and forced to do anything. It's one of those things that sounds like it makes sense on a fundamental level but with even a slight bit of thought falls apart. Also the 'having a bigger gun' analogy on a global scale leads us to the cold war, the ghost of which is rising again as the talk of nuclear war heats up over Russia. So this also feels illogical as a way to maintain safety - all it does is escalate to a level of mutually assured destruction (at best).
I'll keep listening--but I do not agree that hand guns would be just as deadly as the ARs in these mass shooting situations. Think about it. Shooting a hand gun requires more skill. It means that the shooter will have to aim carefully while looking his victims in the eye. It's so much more personal. Non-assault-weapons would be a huge disincentive to these pathetic criminals.
To your point about looking them in the eye, if someone is already at that point, you might think there is no hope left, but i remember a Student at columbine made eye contact with one of the shooters, and he for whatever reason he didnt kill her and just moved on.
In school shootings, teachers and students shelter in place in classrooms. That leaves them as sitting ducks for when the shooter breaks in. The shooter isn't opening the door, walking away from the door so it's "less personal" and then firing at their victims. They are killing them inside of a room. It takes zero skill to walk up to someone terrified of dying and shoot them in the head, rifle or handgun. If you want to talk about the impersonal killing, you're talking about long-range sniping, which snipers do report have less of an impact psychologically on them. That's not what's happening in school shootings.
It’s unfortunate that we live in a world where we have to debate whether kids should run or shelter in place in the case of an active shooter. I wish we never had to debate about this evil worst case scenario.
@@darillus1 this happens everywhere in the world, especially in third world countries but you don't hear about it on CNN because it doesn't drive the agenda
@@davidcoleman2796 For someone born in the US, their nation is the center of the milky way galaxy. You should be used to them talking like this at this point.
I live in a world without guns. I'm a Chinese who lived in China my whole life, who had never seen a gun and never want one. what Sam said is not the case here, most crimes commited aren't by physically strong males, might have to do with most chinese male aren't physically strong we have massive school stabbing every year, mostly targeting kindergardens and primary, middle schools. and woman, daughters sold, killed and gang raped by man with normal build man, fat or thin, we rarely have any break in here in the North but it's more common in the south, normally by organized groups other than individuals, most poor people rather gauge out their own eyes and beg on the street here rather than taking the risk of losing their lives.
It is genuinely interesting to hear from non-Americans. So, in you opinion, what is the most effective way to defend yourself either at school or at home when you live in China?
I agree. As someone from the Netherlands i also have never seen a gun, and i also know no one with a gun, even not criminal people i know. The only one with a gun is the police, but even them would rarely shoot is, because they are simply almost never against someone with a gun. And also i’m not afraid that a stronger man will kick in my door. Even if it would happen, people don’t often die from assault
@@geoffreyscott785 nope, unless I have a death wish, I long for the freedom to speak and act even think freely, but my family and I can never be rich enough to immigrate
Sitting here in Denmark (well, actually I'm lying in my bed) once again wondering why Americans need all those guns. I think we do pretty well here without them. We never had these school shootings. Once there was a shooting in one of our universities back in the 90's. Other than that we have a couple of gangs shooting each other plus the occasional bystander.
It took two hours for the Nazis to defeat Denmark in WW2. Thankfully for you, there were other nations that put up a fight, and, ultimately, liberated you. But if they hadn't? Or what if they had loss? What would the history of your nation have looked like, and what would your present day look like, if the Nazis had succeeded? My point being... the USA is impossible to invade. Even if they had no armed forces, they would be impossible to invade because there would a gun pointing out from behind every tree and window in the land. This might seem like strange reasoning in 2022, until Russia invades Ukraine, and you realise that we are not separated from the past, and humanities problems are not solved. Furthermore, all of those guns make a Stalin or Mao situation impossible too. I say this as a Brit, btw. I don't know what the answer is, but I can certainly understand why Americans want to have guns.
@@dickmonkey-king1271 Btw: Yes, the US is next to impossible to invade. But not because of private citizens owning semi-automatic weapons. The country has the world's strongest military, plus it is guarded by two oceans.
Or second amendment is a directive that directly allows the people to have the sufficient power to back up our first amendment rights of freedom of speech, press, assembly and religion. It gives us a reset button against a tyrannical government while being able to protect ourselves from others if the need arises.
@@bluzytrix no it doesn’t. If you think you’re overthrowing the government you’re naive. That will never happen. The average American is fat and pampered. The only people Americans are overthrowing are themselves. You think if the power goes off and there’s no food that Americans aren’t going to turn on and kill themselves? That’s what’s going to happen. All our guns is going to make America such a violent hellscape that anyone foolish enough to have birthed children here will seriously regret it.
There's only one solution to the gun problem. It's not a short-term solution or an easy fix. Take guns out of circulation. Stop selling them, with the exception of single shot rifles, double barrel shotgun, and maybe revolvers. Make them expensive, require insurance, or whatever it takes. Require registration and licenses. Institute an aggressive buyback program. Anything else is just playing around the edges. I say this as a lifetime gun owner and theoretical advocate of the 2nd Amendment. Will any of this happen? No. I think cars are good analogy. We have speed limits, technical regulations, etc., etc. We're free to drive but are subject to reasonable regulations. If you want to race, you go to a racetrack. You can't just drive your F1 car around the streets. Somehow with guns, the NRA has managed to shift the Overton window so that any sensible regulation is obstructed. As a gun owner, I am willing to forego some individual liberty in the name of the greater good.
So, a few things. They're called "Rights", and not 'privilege" 2: Let's say you pass legislation to ban guns. On day 1 of the ban, you have created 50 million (give or take) new felons, all of whom have nothing to lose, everything to gain, and are heavily, heavily armed. The very entities you would need to control that 50 million are also very likely to be turned into felons as well. Are you willing to gamble with those kinds of odds? This is almost identical to another Lexington and Concorde.
The illusory appeal of gun control laws to normies might very well be the answer to Fermi's Paradox. If America ever enthusiastically embraced this tempting but false solution, the pathway to a free, space-faring civilization will be forever closed off to humanity and our species will eventually be snuffed out under Orwell's boot.
While I understand the jist of your comparisons, in detail and more importantly, from a legal perspective, they are incomparable. You do not have a constitutional right to drive an automobile, nor a constitutional right to any specific mode of transportation. Thus, they are far easier to regulate, and outright restrict at any governmental level. Also, to your closing statement, I'm sure you're aware of the Ben Franklin quote directly dealing with that. As cliche as it is to trot out, it is quite apt and precisely why the constitution and Bill of rights are so difficult to cancel or amend within our government.
If you don’t like a culture of being able to own and operate firearms maybe the USA isn’t for you. Most other countries don’t have the right. You’re a gun owner talking about curtailing the right of others to own guns. When you hand yours in, maybe you’ll have a more compelling argument. Until then it sounds like you think you should be allowed one but I shouldn’t. And I can’t agree to that
If the UK police can visit people for making unapproved Tweets, so they can "check their thinking", then it's certainly possible to put these resources to actually saving lives instead of feelings. But the problem is we can all see right now how this can be abused, with parents already separated from their kids because of social media posts about Covid, for example. This is absolutely NOT a resource problem. It's already happening. It's a justice problem.
@@captainstarman8724 I’m not entirely sure on Sam’s advice of “if someone has a gun pointed to your head, run”. Sure - if they are definitely about to shoot. But I can imagine plenty of scenarios where the chances of getting shot increase when you try to run.
It’s just so unfortunate that the United States is the only country in world with video games and social isolation. Lots of countries have more guns than people, so certainly that’s not the problem. Definite it’s just those darn video games and social isolation from the pandemic that only happened here.
The idea that Mr. Wood would want the "naming and shaming" of a gun store employee who legally sold weapons to a person who passed a background check, on the ASSUMPTION that the shooter was acting weird and crazy at the time of purchase is pretty alarming. * Also in addition, the fact that Sam is actually floating the idea of making ammunition prohibitively expensive to the tune of 30.00$ per round for a regular person to buy for themselves is probably the most brain dead idea I've heard and I think it singularly undermines any credibility he had as a level headed nuanced thinker on this subject. *Despite Meth being illegal, people still risk blowing themselves up in their garages to make meth out of cold medicine, but surely unjustly inflating the cost of ammunition 1000% wouldn't cause a black market of homemade ammo. Think Sam, think... *Also, the level of disdain and "looking down on" regular people who are perceived to be stupid and untrustworthy by both Sam and Mr. Wood is kind of gross, this talk went from bad to worse as the time went on.
The US is a hard one. There are already too many guns in circulation. I'm glad I live here in the UK, but what works here isn't something that could work in the US.
In London, April 2019 to March 2020 saw 15,930 knife offences per 100,000 people London and New York has roughly the same population, a similar number of homicides, it's just the Londoners tend to use sharp objects to kill each other. Guns do not make a significant difference. US has far more crime due to the presence of drugs, low IQ demographics and lack of group cohesion.
@@LLlap Knives are pretty useful. I mostly use them for eating food. Immigrants are cool. Hard workers for the most part. My grandparents were immigrants.
I'm from the UK so this is an outsider's perspective. I feel it's ridiculous to say that the gun salesperson should take any responsibility or liability for what their customers do with their purchases. They are not psychologists who could determine someone's intentions or mental wellbeing in a fifteen minute conversation (that would be a very talented psychologist anyway). Surely whatever gun licencing agency exists should take that type of responsibility and employ psychologists for that reason. I feel there are only two solutions to this problem. Firstly, you train and arm teachers. Far from an ideal solution. Or secondly, you secure school campuses so, as Sam mentions, they are comparable to prisons in their levels of security.
I'm not far into this so should listen to the end really, but I find Sam Harris argument about gun ownership incoherent. A world in which guns wouldn't exist already exists, it's called the rest of the western world, and it's a lot safer than America in which there are more guns than people, so to say not having a gun impedes your ability to defend yourself is not really relevant unless you're expecting to be attacked. Secondly , in the event of you having to defend yourself in your home, is it really that realistic to have enough time to get to your gun before you're attacked if it's safely locked away like he suggests is necessary? I don't think so!
The level of privilege and ignorance in this comment is sickening. If you live in a high-crime low income area, personal safety is certainly an every-day thought and being armed is a smart choice. Also - the rest of the western world doesn’t have guns? What are you talking about? America is certainly an outlier but Canada, Norway, Finland, Iceland, New Zealand, Austria are home to some of the most heavily armed civilians in the world.
Sam Harris does not live in a high crime area so to say he needs a firearm to defend himself is preposterous. Americans can't seem to see what is plainly obvious to the rest of the world, if you have a society which allows firearms you will have high levels of gun crime. Not just that but all the things that go with it, such as inability to maintain law and order without the risk of having to kneel on someone's neck. I'm enjoying watching the US unravel, it's beautiful.
@@MichalKaczorowski Yep waste of a hour an a half of my life. Basically:- "Guns are bad this shooting is horrific" "Yeah they are, this is awful" "You gonna give up your gun?" "Nope" ...... "me neither"
I am not anti gun, and owned many over the years. I do however question how useful a gun that has been safely locked away is useful during a home invasion. I do belive that the chances are much higher that a gun is part of an accidental shooting rather than used for protection.
If you're someone who lives in a place where home invasions are common and you're extensively concerned about self protection at home, I think it's less likely you'll opt for a way to store your gun that takes a lot of time to get it out.
@@sperckensiedoitch that's why it's better to look at it in terms of principle rather than utility, unless you trust lawmakers to always make the most optimal choice.
Re making ammo expensive, some mass shooters charge credit cards knowing that they won’t be around to pay the bill. And banks have to eat the loss. This enraged me.
Nope, sorry. The statistics are very, very clear here. There is no correlation between the density of guns and the prevalence of gun violence. I encourage you to look it up yourself.
@@redmed10 that presumes you could get rid of ALL guns once outlawed which is a pipe dream. If you consider the CDC study which concluded that firearms may be used in self defense situations up to 2 million times a year, you may actually see much more violence being perpetrated in this country when people do not have the force multiplier to protect themselves or dissuade would be criminals.
As a European,I am shocked to hear two intelligent people,one of whom I greatly admired,making these excuses for gun ownership above the lives of children.The advice to run and become a blocked group of easier targets made me feel sick.The attitude that teens should be mobilised to group together and accept that some would die to overpower a gun toting killer is beyond disgusting. I never thought Sam Harris would advocate these desperately sad excuses to keep his gun. Shocked.Saddened.Disgusted. This has made me realise just how entrenched gun culture is in America.
Young males commit over 90% of all gun violence. If they required males under 30 to be rigorously evaluated, tested, and licensed, and severely penalized those who didn’t comply…the gun problem probably wouldn’t exist, and the people who require them for protection (women/elderly) would be unaffected.
@@anolisa1939 Sure it would probably have some effect. But what I don't understand as a European as well, is why the fuck do you have access to buy big ass semi-auto weapons?? If USA would just ban those insane weapons... it's limited how much damage one can do in a school shooting with a handgun in comparison with a semi-auto weapon. And if it will be too difficult to ban them entirely then just ban new sales of those insane weapons, wtf is going on, honestly?!
My country, Sweden, now has the highest amount of deadly shootings per citizens in Europe. But making it more difficult for hunters etc to buy legal rifles wouldn't change anything, since virtually all of the shootings are committed with already totally illegal weapons, like AK-47s, hand grenades and junk smuggled from eastern Europe.
The vast majority of illegal guns in the US were once legal. Guns used in crimes generally aren’t being smuggled over the border into the US or illegally manufactured so stronger laws would help stop some guns becoming illegal guns. Sweden had 46 gun related murders in 2021. In a country of 10 million that’s still insanely small amount. Sweden might have the highest gun murder rate in Western Europe but that says more about how few gun murders there are in other Western European countries.
@@joshr920 Yes, the conditions are probably very different over in the Wild West. For us tho it feels like we have an 'insanely large' amount of shootings now, relatively to what we have been used to. We have shootings almost everyday, and the events that has now become just weekly forgettable news would have been the big national news of a whole decade back in my days.
@@justanothermind4972 I don't think average swedes particularly desire more guns to defend themselves. But we desperately need more police to defeat the criminal organizations. The shootings are primarily between criminal gangs, mostly confined to ghetos of the largest cities, but frequently innocent bypassers and children etc become collateral damage.
@@RobertMJohnson Yes! I thoguht so too. Ukraine definitely has a lot of shooting now... I wonder if we just have the most shootings in the "EU" actually, but our regime media has just told us "Europe".
Because you don't have anything like a 2nd Amendment, and your firearms privileges can be revoked at any time, even because of unpaid traffic tickets, and you need a special license to obtain semi-automatic firearms capable of accepting detachable magazines . Also, all of your guns, even air rifles, are registered, and virtually NOBODY is allowed to carry a firearm in public, and there are stiff penalties for doing so.
@@thatpointinlife As discussed in this podcast, the shooter in Uvalde acquired his guns legally. Checks and requirements identical to Switzerland would not have prevented this. I own several semi-automatic firearms with high capacity mags. Obtaining the purchase permit wasn't significantly more challenging than compared to the US.
@@schoppepetzer9267, the Uvalde shooter would NOT have been able to buy an AR-15 in Switzerland. If you actually lived in Switzerland you would know this.
@@thatpointinlife Why would the Swiss authorities have denied the Uvalde shooter his purchase permit? Maybe I overlooked something but I see no rejection criteria.
@@thatpointinlife Or maybe it is US society that creates ignored angry men, a thing that does not happen in Switzerland. Let's not act like the last decades have not been about putting men down and telling them how bad they are. I am surprised we don't have more shootings.
I grew up in Spain and never for a single instance would it occur to me that a so called bad guy with a gun would try and kill me or people around me. I remember growing up not quite getting why all the content I would watch on tv (we are talking late 80’s here) was always very much around people carrying a thing that I hadn’t ever seen in the real world or knew of anyone that had. Of course most if not all of this content came from the US, and to overcome the cognitive dissonance, I ended up somehow wrapping my mind around the idea that in some distant place in the world people, indeed, would for some reason carry these things (and also that the so called action movies would be all about this totem-like object). We had, though, an ongoing terrorism problem that got particularly bad during the late 80’s and the early 90’s. As bad as the problem was (and it was pretty bad indeed), I don’t remember the idea of having a bunch of armed good guys defeat an organized terrorist group being given much credibility, if any. On that note, there was a related case of so called state terrorism, where some shady agents would try an Dredd judge some suspected terrorists, but the whole plot got out of hand when it was proven that some innocent people got collateral damage labeled as a consequence. Perhaps it was just sheer propaganda, but the main idea was that society at large would only spouse the rule of law as the way to deal with violence (rule of law and yes, political concessions). In the early 2000’s the aforementioned terrorist group went out of business without much in the way of good guys with guns taking them out as the catalyst of their dissolution…On the flip side, anybody that has watched Narcos knows what a bunch of good guys with guns (los pepes) can end up doing for society. Anyway why do I even write this, peace.
I live in America and I dont worry either. We have 350 million people here and the national news makes shit seem like it happens all the time everywhere,It doesn't.
@@natemendsen1629 happy to hear and good for you. I know, as a father myself, I'd be somewhat concerned by the recent developments, but everybody is different, for sure.
@@BoRisMc Im a father too with school age children .The chances are better winning the lotto .Its just perspective.Hell they have a far better chance of getting run over with how some traffic is in places .Im just saying America is a huge place and shit is always happening that could appall the rest of the world if we magnified it. Of course some nut killing 20 kids is pretty dramatic and you cant ignore it.But the real gun problems are in large cities . Some of those places I wont go anymore.The funny thing is they dont talk about that on a national scale .
@@natemendsen1629 Not to mention that some places with very unrestrictive gun laws- like Vermont/ New Hampshire- also have low violent crime. But no one mentions that.
@@Jay_in_Japan yeah well, it's definitely a multifaceted problem. But again, I guess we'll never have a full grasp of each other's perspectives in so far as I have not lived in a gun populated society and you have not lived in a virtual gun-free one. I can say tho, to us in Spain this issue seems as 'weird', culturally distant, and somewhat unnecessary as bullfighting may feel to the average American.
I think we need to move the purchase age to 21 or higher. Also the first firearm purchase is limited to low caliber single fire weapons then a step system allowing responsible law abiding gun owners to graduate to more lethal weapons over time. Registrations and a voluntary buyback.
There are no armed people on Finland. There are people who have firearms for hunting and sports shooting. They do not carry the weapons as that would be illegal. It also is not possible to get a weapon for self defense with extremely rare exceptions that all are all related to work. Even cops leave their weapons at the work at the end of the shift. I totally failed to see the connection between national defense and private firearms. There really is none. The weapons the army had are in the possession of the army.
When exit doors close they are locked from entry from the outside. But are always available as an exit from the inside. They should never be propped open for any reason.
Hardly, I've heard "Make owning a gun like getting a pilots license" "make gun store owners or clerks accountable for the crimes of the customers" "release the info of the store owner that sold the gun to the most recent shooter" "make ammo much more expensive".... I've heard 0 solutions that address any alternatives other than infringing on 2nd Amendment, they quickly glossed over the possibility of adding extra school officers as being "too prison like", never brought up the thought of allowing willing school staff to conceal carry, although im not all the way done yet I'm sure this gets worse....
Imagine a society when thinkers like these actually climb out of, and down from, their ivory towers and work to engage kids prone to these kinds of unmitigaged disasters. Just imagine it. I don't even have to ask if either of them are working with troubled/lonely/dark young men who may meander down such a dark path...
The comparison between Israel and Finland as being cultures with a high number of guns is a bit ridiculous. The US has about 120 guns per 100 people, while Finland has about 32, and Israel just 7.
True, but a more useful number is gun ownership per 100 people. I’ve known individuals that have several firearms but I don’t think that’s indicative of the norm and it would throw off any useful rato to consider.
@@Jaylade I have when I was in the military. Everyone has to go through military service, as well as school kids getting trained with firearms. I remember when I was touring Jerusalem there was a field trip of middle school or high school looking Israeli kids with mag less M4's on there backs. I didnt ask, but it looked like they get trained to understand firearms early on.
To be fair Israel is much younger than the US. Plus guns as a whole is a wide range from antiques, black powder and muzzle loaders all the way to todays High resolution manufacturing capabilities.
the statistic that should worry us is illegal guns on the street per city and access to guns by adolescent and young, angry men. it doesn't matter that millions of law abiding citizens might own 2-20 guns each. usually those guns are under lock and key.
Sam, you’re not at any high risk of a home invasion; I’m sure you live in a perfectly secure neighborhood where only your gatekeeper or the estate security would need a gun anyway. If you simply enjoy playing with guns, just admit that’s what it is; it’s ok. Oh and by the way, everyone is a “responsible gun owner” until they’re not.
Still making my way through this, but I have to disagree about the rifle not being the scariest tool for committing atrocities in, for one example, a school. There’s a reason our military is not clearing rooms with handguns. They are much harder to fire, require more reloading, the rounds tend to have less velocity, etc. Rifles can have 60 round magazines. There’s absolutely no way the Las Vegas massacre happens with a handgun. Not saying banning assault weapons solves our gun violence issue, but you’re both simply wrong about the efficiency of clearing a room with a rifle vs other weapons. Rifles are uniquely easy to use and dangerous.
Sam’s main point was that a handgun can be concealed and brought inside any facility with no metal detector. With a rifle, there’s at least a chance the shooter can be spotted ahead of time.
Beyond the comments already, "Rifles" is a bad term to describe firearms. There are rifles that are standard issue because they are versatile and generally work and you don't want to carry another gun just for that situation. Also the people they are engaging with are armed; this is not the case for mass killings happening at these schools. No one is armed and you have a lot of time to fire off rounds. Some "Rifles" are very compact and some are better suited to field engagements.
@@thelawgameplaywithcommenta2654 clearly I was referring to semi-automatic and fully automatic combat oriented rifles, such as have been used in America’s most notorious mass shootings, including the two recent ones being most discussed here. You’re all just adding word salad. Sam was wrong about his conjecture that handguns are equally or more dangerous in a mass shooting scenario - that’s all. There are sub guns one could pretty easily conceal on their person, and plenty of rifles you could put in a backpack. The extra second or two of supposed “spotability” of a rifle vs a handgun seems pretty irrelevant historically… Finally, yes military members carry versatile weapons, but no serious assault force in the entire world clears rooms with handguns. If you think it’s somehow easier to get a rifle away from someone than a handgun, my guess is you’ve probably never tried either one. Let’s please not put the onus on children to become Rambo in their schools and run toward gunfire, and let’s stop accepting that military style weaponry should be given to 18 year olds same day with zero accountability.
Sounds to me like what's being proposed here is the death penalty carried out by law enforcement without any trial at a court no matter if the person (in many circumstances another kid or young adult) who committed the crime has stopped and wants to clearly surrender to the police. Or at the very least a new kind of police mindset "flip the switch" that makes such scenarios much more likely. Suprised to hear this from Sam Harris. And then Graeme Wood suggests that Israel maybe shows the presence of guns isn't such a big factor based on how there's guns "everywhere" in the country like in the US. Israel is estimated to have around 500k firearms held by civilians and has a population of more than 8 million. A gun per 100 people ratio, smaller than Denmark, of 6.7 - meanwhile the US has a ratio of about 120. Moreover the data seems to show that out of 393 million guns in America about 1 million of them seem to be registered while the rest of them are unregistered firearms. I took a quick look and I can't find any other country that also has a higher gun per capita ratio (Falkland takes second place with a ratio of 62) with such a big ratio of registered vs unregistered firearms with the US having 1:392 and Israel almost 50:50 but a bit more registered ones than unregistered.
Some analysis of judiciary rulings nullifying police responsibility to protect people who are not in the state’s custody from violent harm - even ongoing violence being witnessed by law enforcement officers - should have been discussed. Police are not required, by law, to protect people. That seems relevant to me, Sam.
The most impressive thing about this was that Sam managed to push his tears back into his head. If you use your imagination and place your kid in this classroom it is...words fail me to be honest.
It doesn't have to be my child, any child in that position would make me tearful and heartbroken but it's natural to imagine your own child if you're lucky enough to be a parent. Being a parent gives you a whole new level of empathy towards all children.
@@Moriningland Whether you believe it or not, we are tribalistic as humans. I mean Im sure there are arguments against it and Id love to hear it, however, if looking back on the history of man kind its always been tribalistic. I would also argue that no one is actually altruistic at all. We all gain something from the actions we do whether we realize it or not. I "think" that altruism is a fairy tale we say to give badges of honor to those that do things for other people in big/many ways. They still benefit from their actions (whatever fulfillment it brings). All im trying to say is we need comparisons to be able to be empathetic and generate an appropriate emotional response.
As a hungarian, its hard for me to understand why would you need a gun. we are very safe with noone owning one. Guess americans are just so used to it they cant imagine without
At about 29:15 we touch on the real problem, crazy people kill people...with...guns. Guns don’t kill people. Crazy people kill people. Yes, something needs to be done. A lot needs to be done but it starts with better controlling the people who can get a gun.
You don't have to cut the school down to one door in and one door out, you can have as many doors as you want, just make sure they only open from the inside Law enforcement would have pass keys to get into the building
The lengths gun owners expect everyone else to go to in order to accommodate their fetish. Must have been a while since you've been in school, that suggestion would be a nightmare if implemented not to mention who exactly is going to pay for renovating 130k schools? Lol, the people suggesting this nonsense would be the first to vote against an infrastructure bill for it.
"...incredibly fun to shoot..." Get over it, Sam. Not interested in hearing from guys who think it's fun to own guns. Gun culture is the problem and these two are part of it.
Move to China then. I'm sick of people who don't like something and want to dictate how others should live there own lives. If you want a state that controls your life and tells you whats good and not, go move to China...
The best that the US can hope for is to slowly raise the barrier to entry to gun ownership. The more guns you want (or if you want an assualt rifle), the harder it should be - more psychological screening and higher levels of scrutiny. Eventually make it at least as difficult as it is to get a car license.
It's already much more difficult to get than a driving license. You take one test for the license you take one driving test and you continue to renew it through the mail. The federal background check checks every state and federal and military agency for infractions of the law. Also there is no psychological evaluation for driving tests or firearms your comparison to driving licenses is a non sequitur
Did you miss, or do you not agree with, the part of this podcast where they discuss that "assault rifles" are no more lethal at close range than handguns?
Convenience matters. Even if the bad guy “could get a gun if he really wants to”, that doesn’t mean he will. Putting up roadblocks and speed bumps will help.
The road blocks existed. Nobody really cared. All the signs were there. People pointed it out. Authorities ignored them. This guy showed so many signs. He was not hiding. Yet nobody cared. This speaks more about society than anything else.
We will talk 5 minutes about this and then nothing will change. These boys will again be ignored. Rinse and repeat.
@@Alnivol666 no value in fatalism. We have to keep trying. I would think some legislation could allow for action after such posts. Red flag laws?
@@austingoyne3039 You have to understand that for this shooting to happen a lot of things had to go wrong. From the open door to the school, to the inexistent first response of the police and so many other things.
There were roadblocks in place that became irrelevant due to people not caring.
And yes...background checks should include social media posts. And stop selling guns to 18 year olds. Always fascinated me how in the US you can't drink alcohol until 21, but you can drive from 16 and own guns from 18.
@@Alnivol666 those are great ideas. Wholeheartedly agree with a new age restriction. My problem is with Republicans who act like just because some people fall through the cracks, gun laws don’t work. Of course they work.
@@Alnivol666 If Salvador Ramos couldn’t legally buy a firearm, he would need to set up a straw purchase. That could lead to an arrest. Or he would need to get into the secondary market. It’s possible, but requires some savvy, or connections, and he may not find the same type of weapon, or for the same price.
People deliberately oversimplify this issue.
Asian people live in the USA as well, which means they have the exact same access to firearms, and yet their homicide rates are comparable to countries like Japan. Why is that?
Culture. Culture. Culture.
@@fairlanemuscle Exactly. Well, more specifically Values, which usually come from your upbringing and environment.
Seems like no one on the left wants to talk about this. Now, I think the Right are wrong in some ways but at least they are talking about culture in regard to this issue.
That could be alot of things but culture sure is a part of it
@@Mercurie3 The culture on the right is a death culture... they love to kill, most anything.
Because they have better sense.
Ammo prices fluctuate so wildly that its not uncommon for people to stock up thousands of rounds during cheap periods to make it through 3-5 years of quadruple/quintuple prices. This does make sense for those that shoot regularly.
This.
People who don’t shoot, or own multiple firearms, have absolutely no concept of this.
Like you said, ammo prices go all over the place, and shortages happen all the time.
A thousand rounds of ammunition, say 9mm for instance, is really nothing for someone who shoots regularly. Even if you only shoot a hundred rounds once a month, which is like a single, short range trip, your out of ammo in ten months. When you then want to buy another thousand rounds ten months later, you find out that either the supply has dried up for one reason or another, or that the price has now doubled or tripled from ten months previous. Your are now screwed, and this scenario is just for one firearm. Now imagine you own multiple, maybe some rifles, a shotgun, and a few handguns. This is why many gun owners stock up on thousands of rounds.
Absolutely. Many non-gun owners don't even know there's been a pretty bad ammo shortage over the last couple of years that is now starting to stabilize somewhat with retailers imposing limitations on the amount you can purchase at any one time.
@@tacklengrapple6891 I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
@@tacklengrapple6891 yeah imagine the horror of not being able to shoot for a couple of months. OUCH!!!
It was great to hear Sam’s humanness. So many people joke that he’s always so calm, measured and composed, he may be along the psychopath spectrum. He clearly is not. He’s just very professional.
it's really strange that people see Sam's maturity and think it's a disorder lol
smells like envy
I disagree with Graham's point that the guy who sold the Uvalde shooter his gun should be made to feel worse and we should all know his name. I'm not into punishing people for the crime of being unable to predict the future.
Yeah I don’t know where he was going with that argument. Can’t exactly expect gun shop owners to quiz customers about what they plan on using a gun for and for all we know the shooter may have acted fairly normally when buying the gun.
Yeah this was a strange point to make considering he has just observed a few minutes earlier that psychos can present themselves in a totally affable manner when they want to
It’s trying to shift the blame. A business just does what’s legal. It’s legal to sell to a child. They can’t refuse to sell to a child because it’s their job. It’s up to the those who are writing these laws.
He should lose his right to sell guns for life.
Yeah that's fucking insane. That's the type of talk that makes pro gun type people immediately shut down. Assuming he did the legally required background checks wtf is he suppose to do?
I know it's probably unpopular but Sam is right. The problem of gun violence is not the same problem as mass casualty massacres or suicides with a firearm. All are problems that need solutions but each problem needs its own solutions. There's no single answer for all of it.
I thought the same. Halfway through there is blatant faulty logic from a philosopher, who says that because semi-automatic assault rifles won't solve the "gun problem" they are not the problem. They sure were the problem at Uvalde, Sandy Hook etc. It is INSANE how the US can't see the forest for the trees.
Its not really a problem when taken in the context of deaths to lifestyle induced diseases, medical malpractice and automobile accidents
That's the fallacy of relative privation.
@@slipknnnot Precisely. No one wants to overthrow the constitution over fat people.
@@slipknnnot the anti-gun crowd won't even let you mention the relative scale like you have when that's obviously an important fact and would be taken into account in any other topic...
With regard to media coverage of school shootings, here's what forensic psychiatrist Park Dietz said in a 2009 BBC interview; “We’ve had 20 years of mass murders throughout which I have repeatedly told CNN and our other media, if you don’t want to propagate more mass murders, don’t start the story with sirens blaring. Don’t have photographs of the killer. Don’t make this 24/7 coverage. Do everything you can not to make the body count the lead story, not to make the killer some kind of anti-hero. Do localize the story to the affected community and make it as boring as possible in every other market. Because every time we have intense saturation coverage of a mass murder, we expect to see one or two more within a week.” And he is but one of many in his field who've been saying this.
Following the 2014 Seattle Pacific University shooting, Dietz complained in another interview that the media had completely ignored these warnings: “I have been on CNN at least three times saying, ‘If you keep this up, we’re going to have another one within two weeks,’” he said. “And I’ve been right all three times.”
If the news media are finally beginning to heed the advice of Dietz and other threat-assessment experts, they've been mighty slow coming around.
What do you expect them to do, cut into their profits on an off-chance it will prevent another tragedy? The money gods require a sacrifice.
I doubt FOX news would ever respect that line of reasoning either
@@radscorpion8 BuT FoX NeWZ!!!!
@@radscorpion8 wonderful. Not a single mention of Fox News in the OP but somehow you read into his statement that “Fox News wouldn’t do this” despite him never having said that at all. God damn it’s so frustrating
Lol, so does that logic only apply to mass shootings or other coverage as well? Want to reduce murders, rapes and republicans winning elections simply never report on any of them. Pretend they never happen and it'll magically make it so. How many mass shootings can you name that happened this year? I can name 2-4 but the reality is within the first 21 weeks of the year there were 213 mass shootings and only a handful ever got national media coverage.
It's not usual to hear Sam Harris get so emotional. I get it. This story REALLY hit a lot of people in their core.
How could it not. The most innocent ( young kids ) being mowed down at school, that just sends chills down my back
@@papajoeman23 and nothing happens. Absolutely nothing.
I don't listen to Sam as often as I once did, but I've never heard him made mute by his efforts not to erupt into sobs. I started bawling while I was reading this:
"Angel Garza, a first responder and father of 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza, arrived at the school Tuesday and gave medical aid to a girl covered head-to-toe in blood. The girl said she'd seen her best friend killed -- and the best friend's name was Amerie.
" 'How are you going to look at this girl and shoot her?'" Garza told CNN on Wednesday. 'My baby, how do you shoot my baby?'"
@@trenchtown69 what action did you demand when we killed half a million innocent people in Iraq including children ?
@@slipknnnot Absolutely wrong analogy comparing war situation in islamist dictatorship to unnecessary tragedy in heart of a modern country
I’d love to see Sam do a podcast on the Heroin-Fentanyl-Benzodiazepine/Fentanyl crisis that’s killing massive numbers of people.
Those people choose to ingest what’s killing them. Nobody is showing up unexpectedly and forcing the drugs down their throat…. The comparison is nonsensical.
Part of the mental health crisis in America.
Have you heard of tobacco? Alcoholic beverages perhaps?
@@DY2784 I didn’t make a comparison. I mentioned a thing I’d like to see. 🙄.
@@DY2784 Actually, that's exactly what is happening in many cases. There are people, who otherwise would never choose to use drugs, that become addicted to painkillers which were once been prescribed to them for legitimate reasons. Once their prescription runs out, their addiction takes them to street drugs. Purchasing prescription drugs off the street can be very expensive, and people often end up settling for cheaper, more dangerous options.
Oppressive - I feel that and I’m living in the UK.
The gun tragedies that America continually has to deal with, makes it a third world country regardless of its many technical advances or progressive ideals. Fundamentally, if your children have to be trained to flee from a shooter, or your schools need armed guards, there is a degree of barbarism in your culture that makes it hard to differentiate between Iran or America. From the European perspective, the U.S. has a pop culture form of psychosis that glorifies violence and vengeance in no less a toxic way than any Jihadist. It is simply a tenet of American society that endorses a certain type of violence from birth, there is a disregard of basic humanity while promoting a visceral form of materialism, power and narcissism.
This is a very potent mix, such that one would live in an environment that offers potentially every possible opportunity to realise dreams, and simultaneously the most vacuous experience if you fail to make your mark or are an outsider subjected to continual abuse.
Despite having the profile of a free and democratic culture, it is intuitively known that Americas leaders are deeply corrupt and regard the honour of high office more an opportunity to generate personal wealth than to honour the constitution or work to create unity. In this respect it is a highly competitive arena where losing is not an option, there is simply no consolation for failure in a system that ultimately does not value the individual in any real meaningful way.
The solution - noone has one, as long as a system is corrupt and as long as there is a justifiable reason for the second amendment, which there is, and as long as home invasions or carjackings are as high stakes as they are, U.S. Citizens are right to want to possess weapons.
This is, or should be, a non-partisan issue, but of course it won’t be - rather it is an opportunity to accuse political opponents of murder and supremacy.
From my perspective America simply is the advanced version of an African country, it is the bridge from grass hut to skyscraper but with a zealous, superstitious, idealistic tribalism, no different to an Ivory Coast warlord.
Europeans have spent the last 2000 years killing each other in order to endlessly reshape their national boundaries. Last century, you guys started two "Great" wars costing millions of lives.
Please let me hear more about how America is a barbaric third world country and Europe is so civilized.
If you sat down and actually went over black on black gun crime data you would come away with a totally new perspective. The Democrat-run media has no interest muddying the waters and alienating the Democrat voter base. You sound like a propagandized fool. The number of innocent black children that are needlessly mowed down puts these school shootings to shame.
also from the uk. the Americans have a gun culture, they think it's normal
democrats and republicans don't want to get rid of guns no matter even if mass shootings went up 1000%
@@stephenglover8828 I’m from the UK and immigrated here the US. I have guns, it’s the most natural thing in the world. Not only do I feel safe at home, it’s a great sport too. But perhaps most importantly, if you don’t believe the Left wing’s governments aren’t capable of authoritarianism and tyranny, then you haven’t been paying enough attention. If the Democrats try any funny business, they’ll be getting filled full of holes.
@@occamsblunderbuss great assessment. But not even close, I'm Thatcher's child and if I was in the US I would definitely be a Republican
Gun control, or lack thereof, is a bipartisan thing, both are clueless
If there was no gun culture there would be no guns, so you wouldn't need to own a gun to feel safe. But more importantly there wouldn't be mass shootings
As for sports remember when that teenage girl lost control of an automatic weapon at the shooting range and shot her instructor. Great sport yeah
I've lived in Singapore for 25 years, my daughter can go out in the middle of the city until 3am, she feels totally safe. No need to have a gun.
Compare that to dangerous US cities. I'm glad to be living here, cheers
A note about running vs. shelter in place. SiP is a bad idea (IMHO) for the reasons given here, but everyone running simultaneously creates a new problem. Its a known issue about human psychology that when we flee in terror, we head to the last known entrance/exit. This was the situation of The Station nightclub fire where 100 people died trying to funnel through the entrance while several other exits were readily available. This could create a scenario where children are jam packed at a doorway creating a 'cannot miss' scenario for a shooter. Its why fire drills (including adult ones if you work Government buildings) are carried out in an orderly fashion.
an active shooter and a fire aren't completely analogous and a school is much more spread out than a nightclub. so not only would it be more staggered from each point to an exit unlike a fire many people will be emotionally compelled to act differently no matter what is taught. some will be too afraid to run and barricade themselves. some will exit through the closest window. some will hesitate and precede cautiously. some will immediately sprint to an exit. it's not like a fire where everyone instantly knows to just get out. and for that reason i wouldn't discourage any of it
You make some good points, but I think that the reasons you’ve stated here are exactly why most schools have active shooter drills now on a regular basis, and probably why they’ve been having tornado drills for forever. My kids started active shooter drills in elementary school, right after Sandy Hook. The teachers have to keep the classroom doors closed now, and every entry/exit door in the school stays closed and locked. They have cameras at the front doors and anybody coming in has to be buzzed in once the bell rings. In their elementary and middle schools, every classroom had a door that led outside, but only some of their classrooms in their high school had a second exit.
All of these things make people feel safer, but it never did for me. I bought both my kids bulletproof backpack inserts that were supposed to be able to stop a bullet from an AR-15 (because that’s statistically the most likely weapon they would be faced with in a school shooting), and that made me feel a little better, but I ultimately told them as Graeme has said here to run if they can, and play dead if they can’t. I told them don’t try to be a hero, just try to survive.
That makes me sad, but jfc, I’d always take an alive kid that ran than a dead kid that helped others get out. As valiant, courageous, and worthy of respect as many of the victims of past school shootings have been, no kid or teacher should ever even be put in a position where they could be a hero while protecting their friends/students from a rampaging gunman.
I don't like any of the solutions you people have offered up here. Sorry but all are too unsafe and slow, risky to a degree higher than is reasonable or necessary if better implementations are put in place. I have what are IMO much better alternative methods.
@@philosopher0076 I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
The buildings need to be able to drop a wall or a large part of them. A retrofit where it wall drops straight into the ground or a large portion- retracts or half retracts into the wall like a sliding closet door. This can decrease bottlenecks. Trampeling risks diminish if people disperse to a broad area.
When people can’t cope with emotions internally, they inevitably project this as anger outwards. When a person lacks the ability to introspect, this anger becomes boundless.
Yes and this is a huge issue
Exactly. Has nothing to do with video games
Yes and in most countries people lash out with alcohol etc. In America they put bullets through kids. What a f***** up country.
@@acutecloudd7970 I'm thinking that violence predates video games and Marilyn Manson, et. al. by a healthy margin.
And we give guns to release that anger lol
The Japanese termed it "Yukiko Syndrome" we know medias constant bombardment of tragedy can and does motivate the most vulnerable. Nearly EVERY mass murderer using social media before and during the act, afterwards the "news media" picks it up and perpetuates the story.
I was a police officer for ten years. I liken this problem with gun violence in this country to a drug addiction, like any addiction, until the pain of things staying the same exceeds the pleasure, the problem will not change. The thing that never seems to be talked about is how frequently it is the combination of alcohol and a gun that creates the disaster. The vast majority of crimes and incidents I investigated that involved a firearm, alcohol use was a factor. While virtually every state has laws on the book that prohibit the possession of a firearm while under the influence, within my own state, unless you were a convicted felon, an arrest made by a municipal officer for possessing a firearm while intoxicated while be disposed of through city court. Maximum penalty? 6 months in jail and a $500.00 fine. Usual consequence? Fine, court costs, and one year of unsupervised probation and yes, they will get their gun back.
Why shouldn't they get their gun back in that situation?
@19:00
Only in America can 220 mass shootings in 153 days, and 27 school shootings in 20 weeks be dismissed as not really a big deal
In most of Europe last mass schooting od civillians was done by Germans in 1945 ;)
@@MichalKaczorowski how about the theater massacre in France? Forgot about that one? They used AKs if I remember correctly that was illegal of them. They didn’t seem to obey the laws. Odd, that.
@@Slopdoggy he specifically said 'most of europe'
France is not 'most of europe'
It's one small part of Europe.
And one small part of Europe does not counter the claim 'most of europe'
It WOULD counter the claim 'all of europe'
But not 'most'
🙄
pretty sure the Ukraine beat us in terms of statistics. but you're not thinking, so we should give you a pass for lack of thinking/lack of logic
@@jgreen2015 28 of America's 50 states have had zero mass shootings in their entire history's. Only 13 of Europe's 51 nations can say the same.
Just saying things, don't mind me.
American society has become so degenerate, the violence merely a symptom. we are basically a wealthy south africa at this point. the lack of basic morality and values never seems to be addressed.
the violence is the disease if its you or your loved one being shot to death. the solutions to reducing the violence need to include gun control even if you think its "merely" a symptom, we still need to stop the bleeding, regardless to what the cause is AND address the cause(s). we can do both things at once.
Very little focus on why it's only America, the single best clue on how to solve this issue. If Sam's fear of eliminating guns leaving people unsafe in the face of a larger perpetrator is true, why are countries with stricter gun laws safer across the board? I don't really care about guns either way, but at the very least challenge your own beliefs on the matter, the real answer could just simply be American culture and not the number of guns, but reviewing the data should answer this....
"why are countries with stricter gun laws safer across the board"
I'm not sure I'd say either Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, modern day Russia, modern day China, or early 1900's Turkey were "safer" than the modern US. I know I wouldn't want to be a minority living in any of those countries.
@@migarsormrapophis2755 Great point, all those scenarios don't have the same problems with gun violence that America does.
@@JL-ol8zg _Modern day Mexico also comes to mind._
But yeah, for those other examples, who cares about _other types of violence,_ like being melted in showers by chemicals by your government when you can't defend yourself because you gave away your right to self defense? What's a couple dozen million dead people? So long as they weren't killed _with guns,_ that's all that matters!
@@migarsormrapophis2755 Ok, makes sense. Let's keep everything as is for the off chance Hitler 2 rises to power in America. Gotcha.
South Africa
From someone from Australia with universal healthcare and generally no guns in the community, I really feel sorry for the Americans who can't see the alternatives - similar to the citizens in China who can't see the point of having democracy. Saddly even Sam Harris is trapped in this narrative, ignoring the basic human rights - safe and healthy living.
Queensland showed us that chinese state politics is making its way to a land down under. As for guns I'll keep mine and you can take those people that don't want them and feel thaey should amend the constitution so no one else can have guns.
You don't have the fatalism we Yanks do about actually having the government come together to do something. I'm 50, and for as long as I've been politically conscious at all, figure starting around 1982 or so, no one would entertain the notion that we could amend the Constitution at all. The 2nd Amendment is harder to change than Catholic dogma, and if you give 30% of the population veto power on advancement, there simply won't be advancement.
So true
Those Chinese citizens would have a better chance at democracy with guns. Mao was right when he said 'power comes from the barrel of a gun'.
Reminds me of a protest sign I saw in Hong Kong saying "we need a Second Amendment"
@@ngrovotny Yeah because we understand its a DEMOCRACY for a reason. Why have a democracy and vote people in when you can't trust them unless you have a gun to kill them. What kind of paranoid backwards society do you live in? If you can't trust your government on that level and build a healthy realtionship then how do expect anything good to come to you when your system is run by fear. Living in fear is not freedom its control. And why do you guys not have compulsory voting like us in Australia? How can trust your leaders when not even the whole country has voted? Thats just dumb.
'No chance that handguns will ever get banned' - meanwhile Canada is banning handguns entirely. Different country yes but interesting Sam said that the same day Trudeau announced the exact thing Sam says will never happen.
Makes sense. Your peasants should not have firearms to oppose your rule.
He meant it'll never happen in the United States because of the gun culture and the 2A
What works in Canada is not the same for what will work in the US - surely this is obvious?
He didn't actually ban handguns, he put a stop to the import of additional handguns and to transferring ownership of existing handguns. All the people that currently have them keep them. That's Canada not the US, the gun lobby owns at least half the politicians in the US and a majority of the judges, no gun ban would ever survive long enough to be put in effect.
Canada and the US are VERY different when it comes to firearms. Different population levels, different culture, different material realities on the ground.
There were two ideas in this podcast that made sense to me. 1. In every class room where possible there should be a second exit, preferably to the outside and 2. RUN. I can see an entire school emptying out in seconds leaving the shooter with no one left to shoot at except those coming to shoot him.
A second exit means a second entrance and another way to break in for a shooter
@@62Cristoforo Then you just leave through the other exit?
@@emuccino hahaha I legit laughed out loud at this xD
Windows…
Iam from Canada. I have an 8 & 10 yr old. When I research the schools that might kids go to, I don’t think about 1 or 2 exits. Armed guards, or bullet proof glass. Seriously How can anyone bring up these issues. Americans scream about their exceptionalism. They are exceptional compared to all most all countries on the planet, who don’t ponder whether teachers should carry guns. Cognitive dissonance times 10
Love this conversation, but I must take exception to the idea that guns are "rarely abused" in Israel. This is demonstrably untrue, regardless of how you feel about Israel.
@@satireofcircumstance6458 Well, not necessarily. The main reason I respect Sam's body of work is his capacity and disposition for clear thinking and sincerity. I would not expect his Jewish background to inform his opinions. With that said, there's a couple things I've heard Sam say about Palestinians and Palestine which I find shockingly unfair. I still can't help but love his content and the conversations he engages in. But its a little painful for me, personally, not gonna lie.
There are far fewer mass shootings in Israel than the U.S.
What do you mean by this? How are guns abused in Israel? As far as I can tell, as an Israeli, they're mostly uses in criminal organizations, and especially so in the Arabic population which has a huge gun violence problem.
The shooter must have really hated the town he lived in and wanted to hit them where it would hurt them the most.
The truth is that the United States has a rampant mental health crisis and I will be the first to admit that it's difficult to really see where it begins or ends but there is something going on that cannot be ignored.
Free market capitalism.
Remove suicides and the black population and the conversation around crime is vastly different. “School shootings” also include people who are targeting particular individuals and also people who were killed by accidental discharges that happened to be on school grounds. The vast majority are not random mass killings.
Frustrating and confusing listening and watching from Australia. We just don’t understand how and why in the 21st-century guns are allowed to proliferate throughout society. All cultures have cultural problems and this is one of America’s.
I am American and I am in 100% agreement with you
I’m American and I agree. I think our society is finished
They and us have the same CULTURAL problem. The same one throughout most of the West, culminating soon after 30 years of decline.
When it comes to guns though, it's apples and oranges and no point comparing the two. The underlying reasons for the resulting large pool of guns in America are so foundational to the American spirit , they will never give them up and are less and less likely to as the cultural decline continues. And they certainly won't under a prevailing sentiment of defunding the police and going soft of crime.
What's unique about this century that makes the need for self defense, using the arm of the day, obsolete? On a personal level, as Sam observed, a firearm equalizes many situations otherwise strong and aggressive men impose thier will. For larger scale external threat, see Ukraine.. large scale internal threat; I would guess a significant portion of the US left believes former president Trump was just one phone call or insurrection away from becoming a dictator.. what was their plan if that happened? Protesting? As an Aussy, you're Government went nearly tyrannical using Covid as an excuse.. what was the plan if things had turned out differently? Just swim to a free state?
So, Garcia. What should the people of the Ukraine have done and do/continue to do ? should they have turned in 100% of their firearms and then continue to reject firearms during the Russian invasion and what should they do after? give up all their firearms?
My father is a prime example of someone who’s a serious about firearms as one could be. Growing up we would go to the range just a handful of times not Lots of times. He would clean them properly. He instilled in me a sense of danger while yielding them which commands respect everytime I even see one.
He told me times he’d compete in target competition. We would only shoot maybe a few dozen rounds- just enough to stay current in his mind.
It’s fun but would never ever conjure up a Wild West attitude in my father. He always was just serious and respectful of them and taught me how to shoot with basic defense skills.
Love you dad
Honorable man
We treat them as just another weapon or toy and they are not. They demand respect and they are designed to be lethal
good for you! now, let's go back to the ones who buy 2000 rounds , two assult rifles , write a manifesto, and shoot 17 kids. i don't care about the RESPONSIBLE gun owners as long as kids are dying, you can RESPONSIBLY give up yours if they don't have them too right? i mean , are you THAT attached to your toys?
My father taught me similar knowledge about guns when I was young.
You say only shoot a few dozen rounds like that's the respectable way to shoot or something
As a non-american, this was the weirdest conversation to listen to. The logic around guns in America is crippling.
Canada is banning handguns today. Their is a much deeper reason this stuff is happening around the world . Some of you wont know why we are the way we are until its too late .
European?
As an Australian, I agree. It feels like America is doomed, when the problem of guns is being posited as solve-able with “more guns”.
Surely if anything is evident from the police not entering the room, it’s that even armed police are afraid of guns, and by extension that guns really are the problem.
Besides if a teacher had a handgun, all a shooter needs to do is shoot first?
I'm originally from Canada, grew up with guns, enjoy guns and I find American gun culture to be extremely pathological.
I agree. Canadian, and this whole conversation is totally bizarre.
School shootings were not a thing prior to the 90's. Did Americans have less guns before the 90's? Of course not. In fact, children were encouraged to bring guns to school as late as the 70's for shooting lessons. Do you know how many mass shootings occurred in schools between 1900 and 1970? Zero. Discussing tools and not the motivation behind the use of those tools is most nonsensical crap imaginable. Maybe we should discuss the fact that most of these kids are all on anti-depressants, which they were not prior to the 90's, or that they all seem to come from broken homes.
Maybe for this particular case we should be discussing the absurdity of providing a monopoly on firearm ownership to the people who will not protect us and will arrest us if we try to protect our children . . .
Because America is the only country in the world with mental health problems, right? The issue is multi-faceted. Exponential increases in mental health problems coupled with access to firearms. You can't legislate depression and anxiety. People are not deciding to massacre children simply because they had a bad reaction to their Lexapro.
The unique U.S. mass shooting problem is not going to solve by changing only 1 or 2 things, because it's an extremely complex problem of tens of major factors, involving people's fears, justifications, obsessions, craze, and delusions. No math required: The odds of ever achieving a solution to this is nil. Good luck America.
there's a similar amount of psychos in the UK or canada, they simply don't have easy unrestricted acted to automatic firearms
even in Israel (which is a relatively militaristic society, where every male and even female has a 2-3 year mandatory army service) - you have to get a LICENSE to get a gun, and that in itself is something that prevents a lot of unnecessary gun victims
This conversation really lacks data. The simple question is this: In the US, what is the probability that a gun (AR15 or hand gun) bought by a civilian will
A: harm an innocent (through aggression or self-harm)
B: help someone in self-defense
I don't have the data (it may not be easy to get). But my prior is A vastly outweighs B. If that's the case, when Sam and Graeme are saying "Since there is a slight possibility B may happen to me, we must accept A as a society" (plus guns are fun), I hope they do recognize this is the choice they are making.
CDC has this data. B far outweighs A
Data is actually pretty difficult to get, the NRA has repeatedly sued to obscure as much information as possible about gun violence to prevent research from occurring.
I can tell you that the "FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table 8," which is very easy to find, will give you some of the data you seek. There are fewer than 400 murders annually in which the murderer used a rifle as a weapon. The table doesn't break down rifles into specific types, but rifles of all types are used as murder weapons in fewer than 400 murders per year. 400 in a country of 335,000,000 citizens and legal residents and perhaps another 20,000,000 without legal status. According the CDC, 41,000 people are killed annually by *other people's* tobacco smoke.
Its roughly estimated there's between 500k-3mil defensive uses of firearms per year in the US. It will vary by years. Many of those cases go unreported. Many cases nobody ever actually has to shoot.
Deaths minus suicide by gun usually tends to hover around 25k-35k a year the last few years I believe. So FAR lower than defensive uses when I look at CDC estimates.
As a conservative who was raised in a liberal household (not in one with good rational arguments such as yours), I can appreciate your very nuanced and intelligent views on a this subject (and many others). When listening to you, I tend to give you unfair criticism and that is wrong. Although I may not always agree with you, you are truly a gem of a mind and DEFINITELY worth listening to.
Dicky, I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
In return you mark yourself as a decent and thoughtful fellow
As a Dutch person, I have a hard time mustering any sympathy for any pro-gun argument. It is abundantly obvious that societies where private citizens don't own and carry murder devices are safer and more pleasant to live in (all other things being equal). The Second Amendment is poison.
“All other things being equal” do you think all other things are actually equal? Also, do you think the 2nd Amendment is just “poison” and nothing else?
As a Canadian, I concur wholly with the Dutch person. 2nd Amendment is toxic poisonous garbage that is destroying America.
Prefacing your position with "As an X" is nonessential and in no way augments your arguments or position in general. To the contrary it's quite distracting.
@@alinazang6651 Why do you think so?
@@thedaveastator7939 It provides information about the experience of the person making the argument, namely that he lives in a gun-free society, which shapes his point of view. So, I wouldn't say it's irrelevant.
Banning doors to solve gun killings is like banning corners to try to get rid of spider webs
Very well said
I have no idea where Sam was going with this pod cast. The guest isn't there to challenge and Sam in any case is all over the place. He wants guns securely locked away, but argues for them as a deterrent. What invader is going hang around while your go to your safe, it either at your side or its useless. He suggests the world would be overrun by the biggest strongest without guns, completely glossing over the fact that those with biggest strongest guns do hold swathe of the world. I welcome his heartfelt emotions but I don't begin to understand America's fetish with firearms, he almost admitted its the fun he derives from shooting a gun that colours his opinion not practicality of self defence. I'll never understand Americans attachment to guns nor forgive them collectively for their intransigence in doing anything to address the fundamental problems they cause their society.
He also said American gun culture needs to change, he opposes the NRA, and it should be far more difficult to obtain guns.
It sounds like you're coming from one of the typical sides of the debate - and indeed, it's a defensible position - but as usual, Sam has a more nuanced and centrist position than either of the typical poles on the scale.
@@ArcadianGenesis And here we have a classic example of both-sidism with a false center - your characterization of Sam's position.
On one side the US with the highest incarceration rate, guns per person, death by guns and military violence inflicted on the world of all developed democracies. On the other side the lowest rate of all the above as found in all developed democracies except the US.
There are an enormous number of criminals in the US compared to other countries. If anything, there should be more people in jail, or quite frankly, just executed.
@@twntwrs Your facts are misleading. The US doe snot have the highest number of deaths by guns per capita. In fact if you remove the drug gang violence from the equation the US is extremely responsible with guns. The Gang violence occurs almost entirely in democrat controlled cities with strict gun laws.
The fetish is self defense. You are your own first line of defense, not the police who have no obligation to defend you in America. You should also own a fire extinguisher and first aid kit because the fire truck and ambulance cannot magically appear instantly. Early life saving measures are key. Guns are used massively in self defense, you are fine with hiding in your closet waiting for the police, I am not. The data on violent home invasions is real. I don't need to be tortured and killed in my own home while I beg for my life. We both have a human right to self preservation and a gun is the most reasonable equalizer to ensure your survival. The problem is soft targets and social health issues.
Coming from the UK, with our clearly different culture for these things, I take issue with the opening premise: That the little guy needs guns to protect himself/herself from the big bully, and that 911 is ineffective.
The concept that I might so provoke someone larger than myself that they will want to beat me to death (and therefore my shooting him is a commensurate response) or that lawlessness is at such a high level that you might just get assaulted and robbed on every street corner seems flawed.
I mean it might be hard for you to believe but there are many stats and examples that suggest otherwise
Your own analysis is hopelessly flawed. It isn't about provoking someone or being robbed on the street. The example given is someone entering your home to burglarise/home invasion etc. Sam Harris gets death threats. I don't blame him for wanting a firearm given, if people enter his home with the intention to harm him, that could be his only defence
Absolutely, finally a sensible comment.
I'm from India, I'm shocked to see an intellectual like Sam Harris supporting guns for defense.
Why can't the people of US understand that if guns are altogether banned, nobody needs it, neither for defense or offense.
@@richardbantin9900 Sam was not making an argument over his own gun use, he made the statement that the little guy needs a gun to stop the bigger guy always dominating him.
This just leaves me wondering about the general danger smaller people have while walking the streets of US towns and cities, if they were not to have guns in their pockets to protect them! It is no longer the 1830s, right?
@@sonusabir12 A very popular counter to this comment you hear from americans is "the bad guys will get guns, even if you ban them". Which in itself is totally nonsensical.
Literally any idea apart from getting rid of guns from your society.
yea get rid of guns and transition to knife crime like the UK where you're stabbed for breathing the wrong way. Wake the fuck up
so we should, right now, strip 100% of Ukrainians of their firearms. good call, Anderson!
Excellent discussion. However, I have these questions which could illuminate::
Why focus on vetting new gun owners when there are already 300,000,000 guns out there?
What percentage of mass shooters did not buy their guns?
What percentage of gun murderers used guns that were not registered to them?
What percentage of existing guns are even registered?
Has an NRA member ever been involving in a mass shooting?
What percentage of convicted gun murderers have been NRA members?
What percent of gun murders involve a violent criminal killing another violent criminal?
What would the effect of ending the failed drug war have on overall gun violence ?
The answers to the above would I think change the tenor of the discussion.
Yes, Sam Harris seemed to think that it was going to be solved in a single podcast, and yet all these important questions were glossed over. I'm finding this increasingly the case both with Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson - they spend so much time waffling and very little time actually letting the interviewee actually talk.
Dude, most of these questions look like they were ripped straight out of an NRA propaganda website that have little to do with the subject at hand. You come across as being incredibly disingenuous
@@Ancor3 I took a different take, and one the NRA would certainly not support! Basically those questions lead you to one conclusion: Changing gun laws is largely ineffective for one simple reason: The USA is drenched in guns. Its like debating how to rainproof your coat when you're 10 feet underwater. The only way to solve the issue is to remove all guns in America with the exception of law enforcement, the military and people with specific licenses and those who keep them in a separate, secure location. Extreme? Its how most industrialised countries (you know, the ones where gun massacres are almost unheard of) operate.
So you don’t even want to know the answers to the questions just because they might have come from the NRA website?
1. Because every new gun that gets into circulation is a problem. Vetting new owners is basic common sense and should have been happening for a long time already. Just because there’s lots of guns in circulation doesn’t mean you give up implementing checks on the new ones, it’s better late than never.
2. Not sure, although in this instance the school shooting happens with a gun legally registered to a kid who bought 2 ARs weeks after he turned 18.
3. Don’t know that figure, clearly not a significant percentage
4. Again, not sure, but the NRA have directly lobbied politics to enact looser gun regulation and expanded bullshit laws around stand your ground, pushed back on any proposed background checks on purchase etc. They’ve unquestionably made things worse. Just because they didn’t pull the trigger doesn’t mean they haven’t put more ARs into more peoples hands. If there’s no NRA the assault weapons ban that expired after 10 years probably gets reinstated.
5. This is the question that makes me feel like you’re just deflecting? Why does this matter? We’re talking about the school shooting problem which have happened again and again for 20-30 years. I’m pretty sure none of those children were ‘violent criminals’. No other country on earth has the level of mass shootings that the US does.
6. I feel the same with your question here on the war on drugs, yes there’s some overlap in the Venn diagram with drugs and guns, but if we can’t even get basic background checks done in the political arena what makes you think ‘ending the war on drugs’ whatever that means, could be achieved? You mean legalising cocaine, heroin, meth etc right? That’s a complete non-starter in this political climate.
If you don’t mind me saying, these questions feel like deflections. At this point it’s not on the gun control side to disprove all the gun lobby’s contrived hypothetical questions, which are designed to muddy the debate and play out the news-cycle, - clearly the current status quo is not working and after every school shooting we do nothing. In every other country where they’ve implemented gun ownership measures the mass shooting / gun homicide rate went down. In the US people die repeatedly from mass shooting done by weapons of war that have no business in the civilian populations hands, enough is enough. I’m not saying gun control would solve everything, but it would have some impact that would save lives. We need background checks, better storage and red flag laws, and an assault weapons ban.
I am not american, but from northers Europe. My thoughts after listening to this episode is.... why not learn from Europe?
Create a (modern! Not a wild west) society! Isn't it about time? In Europe we don't have any "right to bear arms", and school shootings are very very rare. We also often have a totally free (mental) health care....
And only selling guns to mentally stable people will not work, since a mentally stable person can suddenly become unstable, for example a man whos wife suddenly (and for no good reason) want to divorce him and take his children away and take a huge chunk of his income for decades to come.... a situation that increase the su1cide risk 10x for such a man....
This is the greatest point made on this topic. No other developed democracy has this problem. Why not do what other developed democracies do?
@@skullkrusher4418 we have a very different view of, and history with, guns in this country. It doesn’t matter how other countries have dealt with things in this context.
@@paolung It matters if what people care about is reducing suffering due to gun violence. If owning guns matters more to Americans than being safe then there's no argument to be had in the first place. Guns will be prolific and people will die. I think this whole problem stems from Americans' obsession with freedom altogether.
last time i checked over in your area you have more stabbings and nearly as many murders as we do here with a smaller population, and that doesnt even get to the problem with taking guns away, hows your freedom of speech going? hows your freedom to travel going? when you give up your ability to protect yourself then those in charge will abuse that power, if you cant refuse they cant do anything about it, heres the simple fact that people seem to avoid saying, You shouldn't trust your government, they need to be watched or they will abuse the power, hence why america has a check and balance system that has stopped people in power form taking over for generations now. in america specificly our government has run mind control operations drugging random citizens for months until they killed themselves, they have made deals to sell out our country and our welfare, the only reason they cant sell the country in one swift transaction is our guns. if you think those in power dont try to push their power beyond their limits, you've never interacted with a single person in any management position in any circumstance.
@@paolung That is a sorry excuse if one actually reads the second amendment. The society that comes closest to it? The Swiss. A vibrant gun culture, during the Cold War every militiaman had an assault rifle and several boxes of military ammunition at home... but being swiss that militia was obviously well regulated.
The "common denominator" in almost all of the mass shootings is the "zero value" that the shooter ascribes to not only the lives of others, but to their own.
If you believe that your life is worthless or meaningless, and that others are solely to blame for that, it certainly facilitates these types of horrific actions.
It's ridiculously redundant to say that a happy, well-adjusted person is not going to do insane things like this. You are dealing with tormented people who have
no hope in life.
Good point, diseases of despair are everywhere.
No shit Sherlock!
Sam Harris dishes out nihilism and meaninglessness outside of self delusion
Atheism produces despair
@@joshsimpson10 lol and religion doesn't?? Tell me when was the last time an atheist flew a plane into a building or started a war in the name of Atheism? Never. Because atheism is simply saying i dont believe you because there's no evidence? Why you far right wings harch on about 'facts over feelings' but then go home a pray to your imaginary friend will continue to amaze me. Hypocrisy at its best.
@@joshsimpson10 Deism is self delusion.
I do agree, however, that atheism can and does produce "despair", but then again most people can't "handle" the truth, which gives religion an important purpose for many.
I live in San Antonio, TX, and I went to one of the Uvalde memorials for the 21 victims, (plus the husband of one of the teachers) on Saturday. This was my first visit to one of these memorials....it was incredibly sad and shocking seeing each individual memorial for the victims. On the other hand, the sense of unity and community is something I haven't felt since 911.
Hell of a price for unity.
I hope you thanked all the democrats that were there, for their support of the ever so effective "gun free zones".
Unity me eye... atrocities like this are inexcusable, and any politician against gun control should be booted out
We're really big on Thoughts and Prayers™Pat.Pend."
@@patrickdoyle9304 I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
Ive only listened to the first 15 minutes, but Sam so far you sound a bit out of it. Do you think that people in Canada , Australia and many European countries are living in worlds where the big guy always wins and the little guy is just constantly being pushed around/ robbed? And somehow the US is uniquely not living in said world because of high gun ownership. It honestly sounds like a gun nuts fantasy. We can look at crime rates in these countries with strict gun laws and much lower to little gun ownership and we know this isnt the case. If anything I would say the US embodies this description even more due to the high crime rates and gun ownership. It is a bit of a John Wayne fantasy to think that if someone breaks into your home in the middle of the night that your going to get to your gun locker open it and take them out, sure its better than nothing but I would say the odds are probably still against you. Invest in better security if your worried, you can afford it.
I live in Canada btw. We do have gun ownership here but there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through and you cant just shoot someone breaking into your home , you could end up being charged with murder. Self defense is not a legitimate reason for gun ownership in Canada according to our laws.
I don’t think you can compare the US to any country in Europe or Canada given its vast cultural differences and goal of maximizing individual liberties.
I thought the same thing. The need to have a gun just in case a bigger guy breaks into your home is laughable. And what happens if a big guy breaks into your home, Sam? He beats you up and takes your watch since neither party has guns. So what? Is that less acceptable to you than everyone having a gun and this same big bad guy has a bad day and walks into a classroom and sprays his AR15? Oh yeah - your watch. Forgot about that.
@@anshumanmisra3415 so you would rather submit everyone in society to the most violent aspects of it to avert a statistical anomaly? Not to mention the idea of getting rid of all guns to fit your utopian scenario is a pipe dream and therefore just mental masturbation. Having a gun in your home to protect yourself versus someone else deciding to commit an atrocity has a tenuous link at best.
The reason I created my channel is the issue of handguns. Handguns are the last guns anyone wants to ban, while they are involved in most shootings. Also, most handguns used in homicides are stolen guns.
URL?
@@Jaylade Just click on my profile icon above, or on the name Handgun Safe Research beside it. They are both active links to my channel.
I liked the nuanced discussion for the most part. One thing that was proposed here that is quite dangerous, however, is holding sellers of a legally obtained firearm liable for the actions of a shooter after the fact. It should be obvious why this is an absolutely horrible idea, but trying to punish outside of the proper realm of accountability is something that has no end. You could just as easily draw a link to political affiliation or celebrity influence and start assigning blame to people with bad ideas. At the end of the day, only those directly involved in the incident should be held to account - that is the legal standard and I see no reason why that would change now or in 100 years.
I think they were discussing that more in the situation where there would be already tighter gun control. If there are measures in place at every gun store that are legally required to ensure that a weapon doesn't get sold to the wrong person, and then the gun seller doesn't abide by those measures and sells a gun to someone who then uses it for mass murder, I think there is a legitimate discussion regarding reprimanding the store owner. Not sure what it's like in America, but here in Canada, bartenders and waiters can be held legally responsible if they serve too much alcohol to a customer who then gets in their car and drives home and gets in a lethal accident injuring themselves or someone else. Similarly, it's the responsibility of a store owner to make sure they don't sell alcohol/weed/cigarettes to someone under age. This type of responsibility regarding the selling of guns is something I think should definitely be on the table. But obviously there would have to be researched measures to be put in place.
@@skullkrusher4418 I think doubling up there on something that would already be illegal overcomplicates things though. It is illegal, for example, to sell alcohol to a minor. If we want tougher punishment for the crime, I think that's fine and is easy to implement. Exponentially assigning blame based on crimes committed on top of that negligence is messy and difficult to execute in law.
Regardless, I think the key issue here is not more laws but rather better oversight and implementation. In this particular shooting, all laws were followed and I don't see any reasonable implementation that could prevent this from occurring at the gun acquisition level. You could say that the police failing to do their job caused many more too die, but see how holding people accountable via negligence isn't so clear cut?
@@theguythatiam Yeah I know what you mean. I was more just stating that there is at least some sort of precedent for those types of laws.
I see why holding people accountable for negligence in this scenario doesn't make sense. But that's because there isn't clear or at least stringent enough (imo) legislation regarding who can be sold a gun. For example, if a law were put in place that you needed to present results of a recent psychiatric evaluation to a store owner in order to be able to buy a gun, but then a store owner sold someone a gun without asking for proof of psychiatric evaluation, then the owner of the gun store SHOULD be held partially responsible. That's more the kind of thing I was talking about, hence why I mentioned that new regulations would have to be put in place BEFORE what they were talking about would make sense. But I think there is indeed room for discussion here.
You'd have to be an American to find it nuanced.
@@keithmorgan3295 Not sure if that's a slight and to whom it would even be directed?
Regarding the discussion about Israel: there are a lot of guns, but they are carried by military and police patrolling the streets. Recently, it's been easier for citizens to get gun permits, but it is still much easier in states like Texas and I would guess the per-capita number of weapons owned by citizens is lower in Israel by at least an order of magnitude. One thing that makes the security challenge in Israel simpler is that most of the violence occurs in sensitive areas (such as the Muslim quarter in the old city of Jerusalem). Another factor is that the source of the violence is contained to that second one Sam mentioned, of ideological murderousness. And even if these people are doing something despicable, they are trying to some extent to appeal to a general public, of non-murderous people, so they would usually have some boundaries, such as not trying to shoot up schools or hospitals. Yet another simplifying factor is that the violence is perpetrated predominantly by Arabs who are easy to identify from a simple verbal exchange, and they are usually more seriously frisked and watched.
But another thing to realize about Israel is that public places that are densely crowded ARE like fortresses, including schools and hospitals. A lot of schools are surrounded by high fences and have a single entry point, with an armed security guard standing there. Hospitals are even more heavily guarded, and malls often are too. In general, with a lot of experience from multiple-casualty events, and over the course of decades, the Israeli society has developed a very strong and wise and successful security philosophy (and I say that even though I disdain the militarism in this society, which is quite related).
The USA killed more muslims than the other way round. Its not a surprise that a warloving nation has domestic violence.
Lets talk Klartext here: America is far worse in violence, murder and rape than all european countries and most islamic countries, with the exception of russia.
So your solution is higher walls, police everywhere and so on.
In europe we dont need walls and overpolicing. It just shows the collapse of social order this countries created (mostly on purpose).
Wise would be to address mental health problems in the USA. And its very naive to compare the USA to the Israel and Palestine conflict, since Israel occpies another country.
You cant even address the far right ideology which made this happen in the first place. Basicly neonazis talking points lead to the most recent shotings. Why not address this? But you are talking about arabs. Israelic jews dont care about neonazis anymore...
That didn't age well, sounds like it'll be easier for israelis to own personal firearms now
@@mbburry4759
Yeah, I think it's safe to say we were all pretty shocked. There was a widely held misconception about the capabilities and willingness-to-commit-horror of Hamas
Sam Harris - an inspiration to all educational channels
If only he was educated about firearms...
@@bandit6272 He is. He is a gun owner or did you not listen to it and just scroll the comments to spread ya right wing gun loving garbage you guys always spew.
The key issue is why does Sam feel he needs a gun? Why does the US have such high crime and incarceration rates? Surely the two are related
There is twice as many guns as US citizens...
Harris has slandered Islam as hard or harder than any other atheist writer that I'm aware of. With that comes the death threats.
What if he just wants a gun. By crime, what are you talking about that is substancially diffrent from other nations both in lower and upper class brackets.
He feels he needs a gun because he has written a number of anti-Islamic articles and books, and has had credible death threats, at a time when Islamic terrorism was common.
The US doesn't have particularly high crime rates, when considered on a World scale.
The incarceration rates have something to do with the unsuitability of the American system. There are a percentage of people who cannot operate within the Western system, and in other Western countries, the government takes care of them.
It seems that most Americans believe that they run a system in which anyone can succeed if they try, which is delusional.
Asked and answered if you actually listen to the episode.
Please take a moment to remember those innocent children who are sacrificed in defense of the 2nd amendment.
Bravo, you win the internet today !!!!
I hope you were being sarcastic.
If that's so, it's more than worth it.
That's pretty much the point of the rule of law, the point of a constitution, the point of the separation of powers, the point of liberal democracy as a whole: you don't just overthrow everything bcs people died and you're mad. You don't build a totalitarian state just bcs you think it's safer. You don't give up fundamental freedoms to save lives.
Liberal democracy among other things means that there are more important things than mere survival.
@@MrCmon113 if they were your children I bet you would feel different
Americans arguing about the best way to take a drug....maybe quit the drug itself. Learn from others around the world, although that's not really the American way...
global data is pretty sporadic. zero correlation between firearm ownership rates and homicide rates.
@Scoobi Hu it would help.
@@fairlanemuscle global data is actually fairly clear. Short of war torn countries people around the world don't feel the need to keep guns and countries have made it really difficult to own one. As for countries like Switzerland, they actually own more guns per capita than the US, but proper training and proper laws have kept guns in the hands of responsible people....no Mass murders to speak of.
@Scoobi Hu maybe not quell, but it certainly limits the amount of damage that can be caused...
I take a look at Australia over the last year or two after handing in their guns and I’ve got to say: no thanks. Enjoy your country without guns and I’ll enjoy mine with guns.
Sam is questioning the sense of raising this issue in the immediate aftermath of a shooting. But this problem is resolving itself, as there is never a time in the US which is not the immediate aftermath of a shooting.
Right now isn't. All anyone asks for is one day. You can even say right after this day of mourning we are going to talk about it. But one hour after it happens for commentators on major news networks to say 2A people have blood on their hands....that's not a discussion. And anyone who has that sentiment, is absolutely a terrible person.
They do this because they don't really have any ideas that would stop this besides a mandator confiscation.
@@laniefeleski7288 I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
I live in the UK. Never seen a gun apart from armed forces (on parade) and police at the airport and in London after July 07. I wouldn't even know how to go about getting a gun. Don't want to know either.
Completly agree. I don't worry about what to do if there is a violent intruder in the home. I don't expect there to be a violent intruder in my home.
@@davegold
I don't wash my food, I'm a decade late on some vaccines and I repair stuff at home that I have no business repairing.
But I don't force everyone else to make all of the same choices I do.
but you're ok with Ukrainians being killed in their own nation. Got it, Kendrick. brilliant comment by the way
Well that's you. Why do you expect everyone else to conform to your lifestyle?
When you need it you will wish you had it.
Please remember about the aspect of concealment for handguns. Fear of the unknown. I live safely in the UK, but I would be horrified going outside knowing (not knowing) that a every single person I pass on a street can have weapon on him/her... My humble solution for a gun laws?
Handguns: Banned due to small size and how easy it is to conceal them (fear factor is the reason after every shooting gun sales skyrockets)
Shotguns; (big, easy to use for adults, difficult for children, limited ammo and range); Allowed for protection and for hunting (usually birds),
Assault rifles, SMG's: Banned;
Bolt action rifles: Allowed for protection and hunters (if you really call yourself a hunter you kill an animal with a single shot). Rifles are big, heavy and have limited ammunition in the clip.
Tough compromise but as long as nobody is happy I think it's a good one.
Sensible answer that deserves many more up votes.
Or they can move over to your side of the pond or move to Canada. Plus yall are losing your ability to have cultural freedom of speech for fear of offending people. I think yall would do well to find a country that prescribes to your way of doing buisness. I'll stick it out right here under the constitution and the bill of rights. Yall can go play big brother else where.
@@larymcfart4034 Well, I respect your opinion :)
I live in Australia and am pretty happy that we are not flooded with firearms here. That said, if I lived in the US I would probably buy one. It seems like you have gone beyond the point of no return over there. It seems rather silly to me that it is easier to get a gun than to get a driving license in many states. Also, the age where people are seen as responsible enough to drink is 21, yet 18 is the gun purchase age. Your country and your business, but that just seems odd the outside looking in
How are those covid quarantine camps working out for you guys down there?
@@acetate909 they're just so use to living somewhere where everything want to kill them that they're totally ok with their government wanting to as well.
Where is it easier to drive than buy a gun?
@@acetate909 Exactly. Bet the Chinese wish they had a Second Amendment.
(Just remembered a protest sign in Hong Kong saying something to the effect of, "we need a Second Amendment")
I don't own a gun, but I always find it cute when an Australian says they're thankful they don't have tons of guns in their country. The cognitive dissonance to make such a statement is astounding lol. Australians not having guns is exactly how and why their citizens were rounded up and put into camps during COVID (and still now).
Listening from Europe, with none I know owner of a gun, except for a friend in a shooting club with small air pistol, many statements in this conversation are so alien to me. And hearing Sam Harris, who is supposed to be one of the big thinkers of the time, making such statements like "a world without guns is the one where the strong wins " etc is so shocking (how come can he be so biased with an American way of living). It feels like listening to some Mayan guys discussing about how "responsible use of human sacrifice" is normal and necessary rtc.
I can't continue listening to a conversation based on such biased and nonsense arguments.
Agree
Not to mention the idea of “swarming the shooter”, or “gouging his eyes while he changing magazine”: ordinary people are not MMA fighters, and are not a trained military outfit. Actually, even armed policemen with training (as seen in Texas, or in the other school shooting in Florida) have a hard time confronting a demented shooter who seeks a “suicide by bullet”. Sadly, most of this podcast is nonsense.
What is intrinsically wrong about the arguement that a world without guns is a world where the strong win?
@@perhapsyes5745 If the duty of protecting the citizens from violence is delegated to the citizens themselves, what is the point of having a law-enforcement department like the police department?
It is an extremely dangerous and absurd idea to expect that common people can take the responsibility of defending themselves with firearms. It is like expecting a mob to deliver justice in the case of legal disputes between people.
@@sonusabir12first of all, that's not actually an answer to the question. Secondly, the Supreme Court has answered that question by stating LEOs do not have a responsibility to protect citizens.
But say you are right that they do, how does that show an intrinsic flaw with Sam's reasoning. The reason people rely on yhe police is because they are the strongest in the case of police without firearms. And in america the reason they are the strongest gest is because they have firearms.
Just because the strongest person who wins happens to be the good guys in a specific instance, only emphasizes Sam's point, it does not disregard it.
I've thought about it a lot and offer a policy suggestion that is by no means bulletproof (excuse the pun) but it's one that, I believe, could lower the statistical likelihood the owner would carry out a mass shooting event.
Anyone 18-21 wishing to purchase an AR-15 or other high capacity weapon (even a handgun) must get a reference/referral from 3 adults age 25 and above. To reduce hesitance, a referring party would not be legally liable should the weapon be used for a mass shooting event, it does however, provide the community some sort of relational voucher, i.e., "Yeah, I know the kid, he's been working in my landscaping business for 2 years. He's nice, reliable, and responsible. I haven't observed him get angry or seen him frustrated or depressed during our working relationship." There could be a series of 8 - 10 questions the referring adult, (who knows the candidate over a period of several months or a year) might check off relating to the candidates character, maturity and mental health.
The referral idea is responding directly to a feature or pattern, that is the profile of dangerous mass killing perpetrators often being loners and reclusive types, individuals not likely to be, 'in the mix' or engaged in relationships, healthy socialization activities and some aspect of work or community involvement whereby they could get 3 individuals who know the candidate to vouch for their character.
This is one of the best ideas I've heard so far. It won't drastically reduce the issue of overall gun violence in the US, and will be seen by many as a violation of the 2A, but a good idea nonetheless when it comes to mass shootings perpetrated by young males.
It's an interesting idea, deny anyone who doesn't have at least 3 friends a gun. Of course, even if the NRA were to be some insane miracle not put every resource at their disposal to destroy this before it could get passed they'd do the next best thing and setup a gun friend referral program so all those loners could call in and get the necessary number of NRA adults to sign off on their purchase, for a fee of course, this is America after all.
@@bleach219 no doubt, people will seek to game the policy but I have a conceal carry and I needed to provide 2 'non-related' references in my request form. I also needed a clean record. Could I have manufactured my referrals, maybe? Could I have checked the, 'not convicted of any crime' box on the form if I was convicted, (hoping I wouldn't show up in a database)? Maybe but not likely.
As for the, "gun friend referral program", there could be penalties for making fraudulant referral claims and this is where phoning a friend becomes a liability to the lying friend.
You're not wrong. People can and do spend time trying to get past or around restrictions but I'm looking for ways to reduce, not eliminate risk. As they say, never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That said, ain't NOTHING gonna change so maybe we'll comment on the next mass shooting. tick, tock....
@@davidlenett8808 that seems like a great idea.
it's not that it's a bad idea, Lenett, it's just that it's not going to solve the problem. look at Chicago and the gun violence. it's INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to purchase a gun in Illinois. i would personally make it more challenging to purchase and own firearms, but that isn't going to stop disenfranchised young men from killing people.
20:33 Tis an example of one of our problems as a society: we think of those killed by school or other mass shootings as the "number of dead". It is difficult to put our arms around the fact that these are the same "number of lives lost" and all the trauma and loss to individual people and families and how these other lives suffer irreparable harm. Egregiously missing always, in all these conversations (by almost everyone) are those wounded ~ some paralyzed even ~ some losing limbs or eyes or faces. Just tragic stuff ~ forever for them.
This talk about school design reminded me of my schools and uni building in the Netherlands and Germany. Each classroom had exit to the outside, above ground level each class had exit to scaffolding permanently around. They did this for fire safety but in case of active shooter we all could just walk outside without any problems.
My elementary school in Southern California was the same way. All classrooms opened to the outside with two doors.
I think this would be a problem because they could run outside and now have a clear shot of a crowd to aim at.
@@erikkovacs3097 I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
@@CarsonHughes85 Are you trying to get the TH-cam rando’s perspective?
@@erikkovacs3097 I like the way you put that, and yes, With my TH-cam channel I’m basically creating a place for regular people to share and challenge each other’s ideas. If you want to give it a shot, send me a message and we’ll set something up, my contact info in the “about” section of my channel.
The way those two "rationalize" gun culture is a mental break down to my European mind. I think this might the the first time that I get that disappointed by Sam Harris as an Intellectual whom I used to respect; he definitely lost some point today. All in all, this conversation taught me that the schism between the two sides of the Atlantic ocean goes much deeper than I initially had thought...
I felt the same way. The whole “you need to be able to protect yourself” point is such an American dogma.
How likely is that violent home invasion he uses as en excuse to be armed? I bet he lives in a well policed neighbourhood.
How useful would that gun be if it is truely well stored as he claims?
Women that encounter violence are so often shot by their partners, male family members etc, having a gun in the house doesn’t level the playingfield for them either.
I'm generally against guns and don't want them in my life, but I thought Sam made a good point when he said "a world without guns is a world where the biggest, strongest, most trained, and most numerous always win." What do you think of that?
He expressed a view that you disagree with and now you no longer respect him? lmao
@@Jimbo5900 He's a typical EU gun control superiority complex type. Guns are evil and people who support them are evil, no exceptions, no listening to good points from other side, nope, it's either you support murder or you support civilization. They crop up every time one of these tragedies happens and they loom in with their "see, what did we tell you?"
@@ArcadianGenesis I feel like it's because if that was truly the case, then everywhere else in the world where gun ownership is severely restricted this would be happening....but it's not. Very restrictive gun laws where I live and yet not once have I been accosted by someone bigger and stronger and forced to do anything. It's one of those things that sounds like it makes sense on a fundamental level but with even a slight bit of thought falls apart.
Also the 'having a bigger gun' analogy on a global scale leads us to the cold war, the ghost of which is rising again as the talk of nuclear war heats up over Russia. So this also feels illogical as a way to maintain safety - all it does is escalate to a level of mutually assured destruction (at best).
I'll keep listening--but I do not agree that hand guns would be just as deadly as the ARs in these mass shooting situations. Think about it. Shooting a hand gun requires more skill. It means that the shooter will have to aim carefully while looking his victims in the eye. It's so much more personal. Non-assault-weapons would be a huge disincentive to these pathetic criminals.
To your point about looking them in the eye, if someone is already at that point, you might think there is no hope left, but i remember a Student at columbine made eye contact with one of the shooters, and he for whatever reason he didnt kill her and just moved on.
In school shootings, teachers and students shelter in place in classrooms. That leaves them as sitting ducks for when the shooter breaks in. The shooter isn't opening the door, walking away from the door so it's "less personal" and then firing at their victims. They are killing them inside of a room. It takes zero skill to walk up to someone terrified of dying and shoot them in the head, rifle or handgun. If you want to talk about the impersonal killing, you're talking about long-range sniping, which snipers do report have less of an impact psychologically on them. That's not what's happening in school shootings.
It’s unfortunate that we live in a world where we have to debate whether kids should run or shelter in place in the case of an active shooter. I wish we never had to debate about this evil worst case scenario.
It's not the world . Its America !
leave the rest of the world out of this! , this only happens in America!
@@darillus1 this happens everywhere in the world, especially in third world countries but you don't hear about it on CNN because it doesn't drive the agenda
@@davidcoleman2796 For someone born in the US, their nation is the center of the milky way galaxy. You should be used to them talking like this at this point.
@Mike Kane yes but every other country did something about it first time. So the tragedy hasn't happened again. America ring hands and pray.
I live in a world without guns. I'm a Chinese who lived in China my whole life, who had never seen a gun and never want one. what Sam said is not the case here, most crimes commited aren't by physically strong males, might have to do with most chinese male aren't physically strong we have massive school stabbing every year, mostly targeting kindergardens and primary, middle schools. and woman, daughters sold, killed and gang raped by man with normal build man, fat or thin, we rarely have any break in here in the North but it's more common in the south, normally by organized groups other than individuals, most poor people rather gauge out their own eyes and beg on the street here rather than taking the risk of losing their lives.
It is genuinely interesting to hear from non-Americans. So, in you opinion, what is the most effective way to defend yourself either at school or at home when you live in China?
Interesting comment on the anniversary of Tianamen Square. Can you post anything about that in China?
I agree. As someone from the Netherlands i also have never seen a gun, and i also know no one with a gun, even not criminal people i know. The only one with a gun is the police, but even them would rarely shoot is, because they are simply almost never against someone with a gun. And also i’m not afraid that a stronger man will kick in my door. Even if it would happen, people don’t often die from assault
@@function0077 well， running
@@geoffreyscott785 nope, unless I have a death wish, I long for the freedom to speak and act even think freely, but my family and I can never be rich enough to immigrate
Sitting here in Denmark (well, actually I'm lying in my bed) once again wondering why Americans need all those guns. I think we do pretty well here without them. We never had these school shootings. Once there was a shooting in one of our universities back in the 90's. Other than that we have a couple of gangs shooting each other plus the occasional bystander.
It took two hours for the Nazis to defeat Denmark in WW2. Thankfully for you, there were other nations that put up a fight, and, ultimately, liberated you. But if they hadn't? Or what if they had loss? What would the history of your nation have looked like, and what would your present day look like, if the Nazis had succeeded? My point being... the USA is impossible to invade. Even if they had no armed forces, they would be impossible to invade because there would a gun pointing out from behind every tree and window in the land. This might seem like strange reasoning in 2022, until Russia invades Ukraine, and you realise that we are not separated from the past, and humanities problems are not solved. Furthermore, all of those guns make a Stalin or Mao situation impossible too. I say this as a Brit, btw. I don't know what the answer is, but I can certainly understand why Americans want to have guns.
@@dickmonkey-king1271 Just clarifying here .. your argument is that private citizens should be equipped to fight an overwhelming military maschine?
@@dickmonkey-king1271 Btw: Yes, the US is next to impossible to invade. But not because of private citizens owning semi-automatic weapons. The country has the world's strongest military, plus it is guarded by two oceans.
Or second amendment is a directive that directly allows the people to have the sufficient power to back up our first amendment rights of freedom of speech, press, assembly and religion. It gives us a reset button against a tyrannical government while being able to protect ourselves from others if the need arises.
@@bluzytrix no it doesn’t. If you think you’re overthrowing the government you’re naive. That will never happen. The average American is fat and pampered. The only people Americans are overthrowing are themselves. You think if the power goes off and there’s no food that Americans aren’t going to turn on and kill themselves? That’s what’s going to happen. All our guns is going to make America such a violent hellscape that anyone foolish enough to have birthed children here will seriously regret it.
There's only one solution to the gun problem. It's not a short-term solution or an easy fix. Take guns out of circulation. Stop selling them, with the exception of single shot rifles, double barrel shotgun, and maybe revolvers. Make them expensive, require insurance, or whatever it takes. Require registration and licenses. Institute an aggressive buyback program. Anything else is just playing around the edges. I say this as a lifetime gun owner and theoretical advocate of the 2nd Amendment. Will any of this happen? No.
I think cars are good analogy. We have speed limits, technical regulations, etc., etc. We're free to drive but are subject to reasonable regulations. If you want to race, you go to a racetrack. You can't just drive your F1 car around the streets. Somehow with guns, the NRA has managed to shift the Overton window so that any sensible regulation is obstructed. As a gun owner, I am willing to forego some individual liberty in the name of the greater good.
So, a few things. They're called "Rights", and not 'privilege"
2: Let's say you pass legislation to ban guns. On day 1 of the ban, you have created 50 million (give or take) new felons, all of whom have nothing to lose, everything to gain, and are heavily, heavily armed. The very entities you would need to control that 50 million are also very likely to be turned into felons as well.
Are you willing to gamble with those kinds of odds? This is almost identical to another Lexington and Concorde.
The illusory appeal of gun control laws to normies might very well be the answer to Fermi's Paradox. If America ever enthusiastically embraced this tempting but false solution, the pathway to a free, space-faring civilization will be forever closed off to humanity and our species will eventually be snuffed out under Orwell's boot.
While I understand the jist of your comparisons, in detail and more importantly, from a legal perspective, they are incomparable. You do not have a constitutional right to drive an automobile, nor a constitutional right to any specific mode of transportation. Thus, they are far easier to regulate, and outright restrict at any governmental level.
Also, to your closing statement, I'm sure you're aware of the Ben Franklin quote directly dealing with that. As cliche as it is to trot out, it is quite apt and precisely why the constitution and Bill of rights are so difficult to cancel or amend within our government.
If you don’t like a culture of being able to own and operate firearms maybe the USA isn’t for you. Most other countries don’t have the right. You’re a gun owner talking about curtailing the right of others to own guns. When you hand yours in, maybe you’ll have a more compelling argument. Until then it sounds like you think you should be allowed one but I shouldn’t. And I can’t agree to that
If the UK police can visit people for making unapproved Tweets, so they can "check their thinking", then it's certainly possible to put these resources to actually saving lives instead of feelings. But the problem is we can all see right now how this can be abused, with parents already separated from their kids because of social media posts about Covid, for example. This is absolutely NOT a resource problem. It's already happening. It's a justice problem.
Absolutely shocking interview…2 pro gun owners debating gun control. Firefighting is not understanding why the fire started
I Igree. As if two pedophiles were debating child molestation by priests.
I’ve listened to many Sam’s podcasts I’m pretty confused about this one. Their solution to the gun problem…..RUN.
@@captainstarman8724 I’m not entirely sure on Sam’s advice of “if someone has a gun pointed to your head, run”. Sure - if they are definitely about to shoot. But I can imagine plenty of scenarios where the chances of getting shot increase when you try to run.
Firefighting IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT HOW, WHY, WHEN fires start. are you mental?
It’s just so unfortunate that the United States is the only country in world with video games and social isolation. Lots of countries have more guns than people, so certainly that’s not the problem. Definite it’s just those darn video games and social isolation from the pandemic that only happened here.
Right on my dude.
The idea that Mr. Wood would want the "naming and shaming" of a gun store employee who legally sold weapons to a person who passed a background check, on the ASSUMPTION that the shooter was acting weird and crazy at the time of purchase is pretty alarming.
* Also in addition, the fact that Sam is actually floating the idea of making ammunition prohibitively expensive to the tune of 30.00$ per round for a regular person to buy for themselves is probably the most brain dead idea I've heard and I think it singularly undermines any credibility he had as a level headed nuanced thinker on this subject.
*Despite Meth being illegal, people still risk blowing themselves up in their garages to make meth out of cold medicine, but surely unjustly inflating the cost of ammunition 1000% wouldn't cause a black market of homemade ammo. Think Sam, think...
*Also, the level of disdain and "looking down on" regular people who are perceived to be stupid and untrustworthy by both Sam and Mr. Wood is kind of gross, this talk went from bad to worse as the time went on.
The US is a hard one. There are already too many guns in circulation. I'm glad I live here in the UK, but what works here isn't something that could work in the US.
No one from the US emigrates to the UK. You're only glad you live there because of your ignorance and skewed perspective.
How do you feel about knives and immigrants?
I live in Glasgow/ London and I daily worry about getting stabbed when outside lol
In London, April 2019 to March 2020 saw 15,930 knife offences per 100,000 people
London and New York has roughly the same population, a similar number of homicides, it's just the Londoners tend to use sharp objects to kill each other.
Guns do not make a significant difference.
US has far more crime due to the presence of drugs, low IQ demographics and lack of group cohesion.
@@LLlap Knives are pretty useful. I mostly use them for eating food.
Immigrants are cool. Hard workers for the most part. My grandparents were immigrants.
I'm from the UK so this is an outsider's perspective. I feel it's ridiculous to say that the gun salesperson should take any responsibility or liability for what their customers do with their purchases. They are not psychologists who could determine someone's intentions or mental wellbeing in a fifteen minute conversation (that would be a very talented psychologist anyway). Surely whatever gun licencing agency exists should take that type of responsibility and employ psychologists for that reason. I feel there are only two solutions to this problem. Firstly, you train and arm teachers. Far from an ideal solution. Or secondly, you secure school campuses so, as Sam mentions, they are comparable to prisons in their levels of security.
Listen to the podcast again
I'm not far into this so should listen to the end really, but I find Sam Harris argument about gun ownership incoherent. A world in which guns wouldn't exist already exists, it's called the rest of the western world, and it's a lot safer than America in which there are more guns than people, so to say not having a gun impedes your ability to defend yourself is not really relevant unless you're expecting to be attacked. Secondly , in the event of you having to defend yourself in your home, is it really that realistic to have enough time to get to your gun before you're attacked if it's safely locked away like he suggests is necessary? I don't think so!
I dont think Americans understand how unhinged they seem to the rest of the Western world when it comes to guns.
Great point!
Agree
The level of privilege and ignorance in this comment is sickening.
If you live in a high-crime low income area, personal safety is certainly an every-day thought and being armed is a smart choice.
Also - the rest of the western world doesn’t have guns? What are you talking about? America is certainly an outlier but Canada, Norway, Finland, Iceland, New Zealand, Austria are home to some of the most heavily armed civilians in the world.
Sam Harris does not live in a high crime area so to say he needs a firearm to defend himself is preposterous. Americans can't seem to see what is plainly obvious to the rest of the world, if you have a society which allows firearms you will have high levels of gun crime. Not just that but all the things that go with it, such as inability to maintain law and order without the risk of having to kneel on someone's neck. I'm enjoying watching the US unravel, it's beautiful.
So the conclusion is do nothing about gun laws but learn to run and move about while being shot at? Gotcha.
Awful conversation. Two gun owners discussing gun control is laughable.
@@MichalKaczorowski Yep waste of a hour an a half of my life. Basically:- "Guns are bad this shooting is horrific" "Yeah they are, this is awful" "You gonna give up your gun?"
"Nope" ...... "me neither"
I am not anti gun, and owned many over the years. I do however question how useful a gun that has been safely locked away is useful during a home invasion.
I do belive that the chances are much higher that a gun is part of an accidental shooting rather than used for protection.
They have quick access safes that open with a finger print.
If you're someone who lives in a place where home invasions are common and you're extensively concerned about self protection at home, I think it's less likely you'll opt for a way to store your gun that takes a lot of time to get it out.
@@sperckensiedoitch that's why it's better to look at it in terms of principle rather than utility, unless you trust lawmakers to always make the most optimal choice.
Re making ammo expensive, some mass shooters charge credit cards knowing that they won’t be around to pay the bill. And banks have to eat the loss. This enraged me.
What? You just said they don't pay the bill, if you make ammo expensive, it literally will affect everyone BUT mass shooters.
@@frozenfenix0 exactly. People who don’t expect to be around ain’t afraid of getting many credit cards and buying lots of guns and ammo.
Yeah. That idea is stupid and totally against the 2nd amendment.
@@ProteinBadger Oh nvm, I thought you we're saying make ammo more expensive, guess I'm not there in the podcast yet.
oh no. the poor banks.
Less guns leads to less deaths and injuries due to guns. This is one of those times when correlation is also causation.
Nope, sorry. The statistics are very, very clear here. There is no correlation between the density of guns and the prevalence of gun violence. I encourage you to look it up yourself.
First I echo the first comment but even so, what is then resulting situation regarding violence with guns removed?
@@fooanonymous
Funny how you can't quote one statistic to back up your. Everybody should just believe you?
@@ktrigg2
Resulting situation is less people get killed or take their own lives.
@@redmed10 that presumes you could get rid of ALL guns once outlawed which is a pipe dream. If you consider the CDC study which concluded that firearms may be used in self defense situations up to 2 million times a year, you may actually see much more violence being perpetrated in this country when people do not have the force multiplier to protect themselves or dissuade would be criminals.
As a European,I am shocked to hear two intelligent people,one of whom I greatly admired,making these excuses for gun ownership above the lives of children.The advice to run and become a blocked group of easier targets made me feel sick.The attitude that teens should be mobilised to group together and accept that some would die to overpower a gun toting killer is beyond disgusting.
I never thought Sam Harris would advocate these desperately sad excuses to keep his gun.
Shocked.Saddened.Disgusted.
This has made me realise just how entrenched gun culture is in America.
Completely agree. Sam's IQ drops to 50 when he discusses gun violence and policy.
@@Theolddaysaregone What happens to his IQ when he talks about IQ?
Young males commit over 90% of all gun violence. If they required males under 30 to be rigorously evaluated, tested, and licensed, and severely penalized those who didn’t comply…the gun problem probably wouldn’t exist, and the people who require them for protection (women/elderly) would be unaffected.
@@anolisa1939 Sure it would probably have some effect. But what I don't understand as a European as well, is why the fuck do you have access to buy big ass semi-auto weapons?? If USA would just ban those insane weapons... it's limited how much damage one can do in a school shooting with a handgun in comparison with a semi-auto weapon. And if it will be too difficult to ban them entirely then just ban new sales of those insane weapons, wtf is going on, honestly?!
My country, Sweden, now has the highest amount of deadly shootings per citizens in Europe. But making it more difficult for hunters etc to buy legal rifles wouldn't change anything, since virtually all of the shootings are committed with already totally illegal weapons, like AK-47s, hand grenades and junk smuggled from eastern Europe.
The vast majority of illegal guns in the US were once legal. Guns used in crimes generally aren’t being smuggled over the border into the US or illegally manufactured so stronger laws would help stop some guns becoming illegal guns.
Sweden had 46 gun related murders in 2021. In a country of 10 million that’s still insanely small amount. Sweden might have the highest gun murder rate in Western Europe but that says more about how few gun murders there are in other Western European countries.
@@joshr920 Yes, the conditions are probably very different over in the Wild West.
For us tho it feels like we have an 'insanely large' amount of shootings now, relatively to what we have been used to. We have shootings almost everyday, and the events that has now become just weekly forgettable news would have been the big national news of a whole decade back in my days.
@@justanothermind4972 I don't think average swedes particularly desire more guns to defend themselves.
But we desperately need more police to defeat the criminal organizations. The shootings are primarily between criminal gangs, mostly confined to ghetos of the largest cities, but frequently innocent bypassers and children etc become collateral damage.
that would be UKRAINE right now but y'all European don't really like to deal in facts on your continent.
@@RobertMJohnson Yes! I thoguht so too. Ukraine definitely has a lot of shooting now... I wonder if we just have the most shootings in the "EU" actually, but our regime media has just told us "Europe".
Cheers from Switzerland. Lots of guns here, yet no mass shootings or gun violence at a scale occuring in the US.
Because you don't have anything like a 2nd Amendment, and your firearms privileges can be revoked at any time, even because of unpaid traffic tickets, and you need a special license to obtain semi-automatic firearms capable of accepting detachable magazines
.
Also, all of your guns, even air rifles, are registered, and virtually NOBODY is allowed to carry a firearm in public, and there are stiff penalties for doing so.
@@thatpointinlife As discussed in this podcast, the shooter in Uvalde acquired his guns legally. Checks and requirements identical to Switzerland would not have prevented this. I own several semi-automatic firearms with high capacity mags. Obtaining the purchase permit wasn't significantly more challenging than compared to the US.
@@schoppepetzer9267, the Uvalde shooter would NOT have been able to buy an AR-15 in Switzerland.
If you actually lived in Switzerland you would know this.
@@thatpointinlife Why would the Swiss authorities have denied the Uvalde shooter his purchase permit? Maybe I overlooked something but I see no rejection criteria.
@@thatpointinlife Or maybe it is US society that creates ignored angry men, a thing that does not happen in Switzerland. Let's not act like the last decades have not been about putting men down and telling them how bad they are. I am surprised we don't have more shootings.
I grew up in Spain and never for a single instance would it occur to me that a so called bad guy with a gun would try and kill me or people around me. I remember growing up not quite getting why all the content I would watch on tv (we are talking late 80’s here) was always very much around people carrying a thing that I hadn’t ever seen in the real world or knew of anyone that had. Of course most if not all of this content came from the US, and to overcome the cognitive dissonance, I ended up somehow wrapping my mind around the idea that in some distant place in the world people, indeed, would for some reason carry these things (and also that the so called action movies would be all about this totem-like object). We had, though, an ongoing terrorism problem that got particularly bad during the late 80’s and the early 90’s. As bad as the problem was (and it was pretty bad indeed), I don’t remember the idea of having a bunch of armed good guys defeat an organized terrorist group being given much credibility, if any. On that note, there was a related case of so called state terrorism, where some shady agents would try an Dredd judge some suspected terrorists, but the whole plot got out of hand when it was proven that some innocent people got collateral damage labeled as a consequence. Perhaps it was just sheer propaganda, but the main idea was that society at large would only spouse the rule of law as the way to deal with violence (rule of law and yes, political concessions). In the early 2000’s the aforementioned terrorist group went out of business without much in the way of good guys with guns taking them out as the catalyst of their dissolution…On the flip side, anybody that has watched Narcos knows what a bunch of good guys with guns (los pepes) can end up doing for society. Anyway why do I even write this, peace.
I live in America and I dont worry either. We have 350 million people here and the national news makes shit seem like it happens all the time everywhere,It doesn't.
@@natemendsen1629 happy to hear and good for you. I know, as a father myself, I'd be somewhat concerned by the recent developments, but everybody is different, for sure.
@@BoRisMc Im a father too with school age children .The chances are better winning the lotto .Its just perspective.Hell they have a far better chance of getting run over with how some traffic is in places .Im just saying America is a huge place and shit is always happening that could appall the rest of the world if we magnified it. Of course some nut killing 20 kids is pretty dramatic and you cant ignore it.But the real gun problems are in large cities . Some of those places I wont go anymore.The funny thing is they dont talk about that on a national scale .
@@natemendsen1629 Not to mention that some places with very unrestrictive gun laws- like Vermont/ New Hampshire- also have low violent crime. But no one mentions that.
@@Jay_in_Japan yeah well, it's definitely a multifaceted problem. But again, I guess we'll never have a full grasp of each other's perspectives in so far as I have not lived in a gun populated society and you have not lived in a virtual gun-free one. I can say tho, to us in Spain this issue seems as 'weird', culturally distant, and somewhat unnecessary as bullfighting may feel to the
average American.
I think we need to move the purchase age to 21 or higher. Also the first firearm purchase is limited to low caliber single fire weapons then a step system allowing responsible law abiding gun owners to graduate to more lethal weapons over time. Registrations and a voluntary buyback.
Yes, this!
nice an actual comment putting forward a solution. Instead of just complaining about the other side and making sweeping statements.
I like this!
I disagree, but this is a much better idea than the 'ban it' crowd has come up with in 30 years.
@@fguocokgyloeu4817 there has to be a middle ground don't you think. Most current gun owners would be grandfathered in
There are no armed people on Finland. There are people who have firearms for hunting and sports shooting. They do not carry the weapons as that would be illegal. It also is not possible to get a weapon for self defense with extremely rare exceptions that all are all related to work. Even cops leave their weapons at the work at the end of the shift.
I totally failed to see the connection between national defense and private firearms. There really is none. The weapons the army had are in the possession of the army.
When exit doors close they are locked from entry from the outside. But are always available as an exit from the inside. They should never be propped open for any reason.
thank god i do not live in the US
Noel, we appreciate it too.
Yes, thank God. However, feel free to listen to our intellectuals on our tech platforms opining on our issues. We appreciate the thought.
@@primalchaos7 don’t make it available then. We’d gladly do without your shit.
It is highly unlikely you would encounter gun violence if you lived your whole life in the US.
@@nutegunspray1022
Don't encourage "it". We don't want "it" here further fouling our native fringe-loon population
I’m a gun toting conservative and I approve this nuanced podcast.
Hardly, I've heard "Make owning a gun like getting a pilots license" "make gun store owners or clerks accountable for the crimes of the customers" "release the info of the store owner that sold the gun to the most recent shooter" "make ammo much more expensive".... I've heard 0 solutions that address any alternatives other than infringing on 2nd Amendment, they quickly glossed over the possibility of adding extra school officers as being "too prison like", never brought up the thought of allowing willing school staff to conceal carry, although im not all the way done yet I'm sure this gets worse....
Gun toting left of the fence. Great podcast. Riddle of the gun was very good too.
@@josesbox9555 I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
@@josesbox9555 we're gonna be ok
Me too! I’m a gun enthusiast competition shooter! I was afraid to listen thinking it would be all ban all guns! Was pleasantly surprised!
Imagine a society when thinkers like these actually climb out of, and down from, their ivory towers and work to engage kids prone to these kinds of unmitigaged disasters. Just imagine it. I don't even have to ask if either of them are working with troubled/lonely/dark young men who may meander down such a dark path...
Do dark troubled lonely young men go to a special club where Sam can mentor them?
@@phukrnd840 Thanks for coming down from your ivory tower and gracing us with your impressive wit.
No, getting a gun should not be the equivalent to getting a pilot license. I carry Everyday
The comparison between Israel and Finland as being cultures with a high number of guns is a bit ridiculous. The US has about 120 guns per 100 people, while Finland has about 32, and Israel just 7.
True, but a more useful number is gun ownership per 100 people. I’ve known individuals that have several firearms but I don’t think that’s indicative of the norm and it would throw off any useful rato to consider.
Have you ever been to Israel lol..?
@@Jaylade I have when I was in the military. Everyone has to go through military service, as well as school kids getting trained with firearms. I remember when I was touring Jerusalem there was a field trip of middle school or high school looking Israeli kids with mag less M4's on there backs. I didnt ask, but it looked like they get trained to understand firearms early on.
To be fair Israel is much younger than the US. Plus guns as a whole is a wide range from antiques, black powder and muzzle loaders all the way to todays High resolution manufacturing capabilities.
the statistic that should worry us is illegal guns on the street per city and access to guns by adolescent and young, angry men. it doesn't matter that millions of law abiding citizens might own 2-20 guns each. usually those guns are under lock and key.
How is it not possible 2 ban military style weapons or make it really hard 2 get 1?? What is wrong with u ppl
Sam, you’re not at any high risk of a home invasion; I’m sure you live in a perfectly secure neighborhood where only your gatekeeper or the estate security would need a gun anyway. If you simply enjoy playing with guns, just admit that’s what it is; it’s ok.
Oh and by the way, everyone is a “responsible gun owner” until they’re not.
Good point
And shoot..... er *'shots fired'
sam might be pretty rich but he doesnt have a gatekeeper.
@@gcash8892 beats the whole point of being rich if (as Sam said of himself) your life is constantly at risk, no?
Still making my way through this, but I have to disagree about the rifle not being the scariest tool for committing atrocities in, for one example, a school. There’s a reason our military is not clearing rooms with handguns. They are much harder to fire, require more reloading, the rounds tend to have less velocity, etc. Rifles can have 60 round magazines. There’s absolutely no way the Las Vegas massacre happens with a handgun. Not saying banning assault weapons solves our gun violence issue, but you’re both simply wrong about the efficiency of clearing a room with a rifle vs other weapons. Rifles are uniquely easy to use and dangerous.
Sam’s main point was that a handgun can be concealed and brought inside any facility with no metal detector. With a rifle, there’s at least a chance the shooter can be spotted ahead of time.
@@3rdcoastnyucka right, and that rifles are easier to disengage by a motivated bystander
Beyond the comments already, "Rifles" is a bad term to describe firearms. There are rifles that are standard issue because they are versatile and generally work and you don't want to carry another gun just for that situation. Also the people they are engaging with are armed; this is not the case for mass killings happening at these schools. No one is armed and you have a lot of time to fire off rounds.
Some "Rifles" are very compact and some are better suited to field engagements.
@@thelawgameplaywithcommenta2654 clearly I was referring to semi-automatic and fully automatic combat oriented rifles, such as have been used in America’s most notorious mass shootings, including the two recent ones being most discussed here. You’re all just adding word salad. Sam was wrong about his conjecture that handguns are equally or more dangerous in a mass shooting scenario - that’s all. There are sub guns one could pretty easily conceal on their person, and plenty of rifles you could put in a backpack. The extra second or two of supposed “spotability” of a rifle vs a handgun seems pretty irrelevant historically… Finally, yes military members carry versatile weapons, but no serious assault force in the entire world clears rooms with handguns. If you think it’s somehow easier to get a rifle away from someone than a handgun, my guess is you’ve probably never tried either one. Let’s please not put the onus on children to become Rambo in their schools and run toward gunfire, and let’s stop accepting that military style weaponry should be given to 18 year olds same day with zero accountability.
never seen a glock drum? plus they are more concealable
2 Amendment. Never going away. In fact, I'll buy another
Sounds to me like what's being proposed here is the death penalty carried out by law enforcement without any trial at a court no matter if the person (in many circumstances another kid or young adult) who committed the crime has stopped and wants to clearly surrender to the police. Or at the very least a new kind of police mindset "flip the switch" that makes such scenarios much more likely. Suprised to hear this from Sam Harris. And then Graeme Wood suggests that Israel maybe shows the presence of guns isn't such a big factor based on how there's guns "everywhere" in the country like in the US. Israel is estimated to have around 500k firearms held by civilians and has a population of more than 8 million. A gun per 100 people ratio, smaller than Denmark, of 6.7 - meanwhile the US has a ratio of about 120. Moreover the data seems to show that out of 393 million guns in America about 1 million of them seem to be registered while the rest of them are unregistered firearms. I took a quick look and I can't find any other country that also has a higher gun per capita ratio (Falkland takes second place with a ratio of 62) with such a big ratio of registered vs unregistered firearms with the US having 1:392 and Israel almost 50:50 but a bit more registered ones than unregistered.
"No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"
Some analysis of judiciary rulings nullifying police responsibility to protect people who are not in the state’s custody from violent harm - even ongoing violence being witnessed by law enforcement officers - should have been discussed. Police are not required, by law, to protect people. That seems relevant to me, Sam.
Good point, I'd like to hear more discussion of this as well.
Nicholas, I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
The most impressive thing about this was that Sam managed to push his tears back into his head. If you use your imagination and place your kid in this classroom it is...words fail me to be honest.
Why does it have to be your child. Why can’t it just be a child? That’s the problem with our country, we are too tribal and not altruistic.
It doesn't have to be my child, any child in that position would make me tearful and heartbroken but it's natural to imagine your own child if you're lucky enough to be a parent. Being a parent gives you a whole new level of empathy towards all children.
@@AndyfromWrexham I started a new-ish TH-cam channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?
@@Moriningland Whether you believe it or not, we are tribalistic as humans. I mean Im sure there are arguments against it and Id love to hear it, however, if looking back on the history of man kind its always been tribalistic. I would also argue that no one is actually altruistic at all. We all gain something from the actions we do whether we realize it or not. I "think" that altruism is a fairy tale we say to give badges of honor to those that do things for other people in big/many ways. They still benefit from their actions (whatever fulfillment it brings). All im trying to say is we need comparisons to be able to be empathetic and generate an appropriate emotional response.
As a hungarian, its hard for me to understand why would you need a gun. we are very safe with noone owning one. Guess americans are just so used to it they cant imagine without
At about 29:15 we touch on the real problem, crazy people kill people...with...guns. Guns don’t kill people. Crazy people kill people. Yes, something needs to be done. A lot needs to be done but it starts with better controlling the people who can get a gun.
Everyone thinks they'll always, 100%, perfectly identify the home invader vs the insomniac kid/wife/husband, but the numbers don't bear it out.
Also, everybody thinks they are mentally capable of using/owning guns, funny
Maybe you should hire those Texas cops to protect you 🤣
According to official stats, more people are saved by the use of guns than are harmed.
Trust me bro
I love the redundancy of always, 100% and perfectly
You don't have to cut the school down to one door in and one door out, you can have as many doors as you want, just make sure they only open from the inside
Law enforcement would have pass keys to get into the building
The lengths gun owners expect everyone else to go to in order to accommodate their fetish. Must have been a while since you've been in school, that suggestion would be a nightmare if implemented not to mention who exactly is going to pay for renovating 130k schools? Lol, the people suggesting this nonsense would be the first to vote against an infrastructure bill for it.
"...incredibly fun to shoot..." Get over it, Sam. Not interested in hearing from guys who think it's fun to own guns. Gun culture is the problem and these two are part of it.
Move to China then. I'm sick of people who don't like something and want to dictate how others should live there own lives. If you want a state that controls your life and tells you whats good and not, go move to China...
Many people base their identity on guns because they are fun, so Sam was right to address that.
Denial doesn't tend to work.. It's fun to him
It must be fun, being a looser.
The best that the US can hope for is to slowly raise the barrier to entry to gun ownership. The more guns you want (or if you want an assualt rifle), the harder it should be - more psychological screening and higher levels of scrutiny. Eventually make it at least as difficult as it is to get a car license.
It's already much more difficult to get than a driving license. You take one test for the license you take one driving test and you continue to renew it through the mail. The federal background check checks every state and federal and military agency for infractions of the law.
Also there is no psychological evaluation for driving tests or firearms your comparison to driving licenses is a non sequitur
Did you miss, or do you not agree with, the part of this podcast where they discuss that "assault rifles" are no more lethal at close range than handguns?
I really hate when people say there are no solutions when they take any kind of gun control off the table.