43:04 “Hamas wants to go back to October the 6th. On October the 6th there was a ceasefire of a kind. Hamas broke it. Now Hamas must pay the price.” That sums it up very well, I think.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" Martin Luther King Jr (A Proper Sense of Priorities speech delivered Feb 6, 1968)
@@rjridge6791 You think you’re the only one that cares about poverty and militarism, and the only cure is socialism? There’s sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity, right there.
I'm not sure you would say this if you realized how often Sam has his facts wrong. Rationalizing and telling the truth are not the same. Sam lives in an information bubble created by liberal elites. He does not investigate anything for himself.
1. If Harvard is free to have any policy it wants, why is it not free to treat anti-Semitism differently than anti-LGBTQ rhetoric? 2. Isn't it consistent for Harvard to stand for the underdog in both cases? 3. Do you really believe Harvard would react differently if a student merely advocated killing black people, bringing back slavery, etc, without targeting any particular student on campus and without doing anything substantively because of their opinion?
"Israel does listen to international pressure" - How can he say this when you have almost every single country in the UN saying the continued settlements are illegal? Has Israel not been expanding settlements in the West Bank for decades despite constant international pressure?
I'm honestly so disappointed that Sam is platforming such biased right wing commentators. Throughout this war, Douglas Murray has gone completely mask off racist against Arabs, yet his friends and fans just completely ignore it.
That same resolution says Israel needs to be recognised as a state, which most Arab nations refuse to do until this day. The war is not going to end unilaterally, by pressuring Israel to give up security for nothing in return
Do you realize that the Palestinians NEVER did their part of the Oslo agreement?? They kept pretending to stop terrorism (the "revolving doors" policy), and in 2001, they launched the "second intifada," where suicide terrorists from the west bank murdered thousands of Israelis by blowing themselves up on busses and restaurants in Israel. Because of it, the C territories stayed under Israel's authority. Why do people never hold the Palestinians accountable for their own actions???
The settlements are actually made by private individuals - like Jared kushner. Israel does bulldoze illegal settlements. But because they are a nation of laws it often takes years to go through the courts. So in the time it takes the government to properly get one settlement demolished, 10 more have been created
@@Shmimbleton If we are talking about Israel, then yes, they need to stop forcing Palestinians out of their homes. They've been doing this for decades and these are crimes. If they want to be recognize as a state then I'm all for it, they have a right to live there, but stealing land and homes, that is just unnacceptable.
Funny how easy it is to identify all those people wanting to 'see shit break' yet having no idea how we got here. People tend to want to sustain something if it's going well and they're allowed in on it. Funny part is, it's Harris himself who seems willing to break the entire system to get rid of what he, as an individual, deems threatening. Why don't these shit-breakers just get degrees, become neuroscientist-philosophers, and make big bucks with a podcast?
Sam should amend his opening comments about Elon to correct his statement that Elon is suing advertisers. He's suing Media Matters, not advertisers (as far as I know). Edit: It's been pointed out to me that Sam said Elon was "threatening to sue advertisers" not actively suing them. Is there evidence that Elon has threatened to sue advertisers? I'm not finding that with a cursory Google search. Honest question.
I felt that was off, I think Sam is slightly off base on that "situation". When two groups are fighting it's not helpful to overestimate the flaws in one or the other.
He said threatening to sue advertisers, which he has done, not actively suing them, as he is doing with Media Matters. Perhaps you should correct your comment.
His legal case isn't because they won't advertise. It is because they spread actual lies. Misrepresenting adverts as being next to inappropriate tweets, when this didn't happen.
I agree with almost everything you've shared on this Sam but the lack of analysis / consideration on a ceasefire and other means to fighting Jihadism is confusing to me. Are 12k deaths not the most troubling ethical dilemma to address now? You can cover Palestinian suffering as well and I find it puzzling you dont.
Thank you! It's become clear that Sam has no interest in inspiring anything close to a productive discourse regarding the War. Instead he has decided to double down in his defense of Israel's actions while simultaneously adding nothing new to the conversation. It's baffling how anyone can think this is at all important content.
Well, as Douglas mentioned in this very podcast - there was an effective ceasefire already; until Hamas decided to commit the atrocities of October 7th. Israel has every right to retaliate.
I love Sam but what I've been noticing is that since Covid he has only been inviting guests who absolutely agree with him on every single topic, whether its politics, social issues or humanity. It has been truly exhausting for the past 3 years to listen to Sam and his guests talk about how much they agree with one another. Instead of a 10 min opening monologue about how much Elon is in the wrong, why doesn't he just invite the guy on his podcast to hear his perspective on it? I mean until when is he going to refuse to bring other pespective into the picture? I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy.
Agree! Long term fan of Sam here but for some time it has just felt like his podcast is only about platforming people that reiterate his own views. And the fall-outs with interesting thinkers like Bret and Elon. He only criticizes them again and again instead of engaging with them in any conversation.
Yes!! Hell Ill even say he should bring Vivek on...the guy has been completely open to talking to people who disagree with him. Would love to hear some back and forth there. Neither discussion will happen, I think he has demonstrated VERY clearly that he doesnt really believe in public discourse about controversial topics.
Regarding Elon; media matters significantly manipulated the data to convince advertisers not to advertise on X; then some advertisers exited due to this lie. His statement was directed at those advertisers who hypocritically exited X while still advertising on platforms that have “hidden” algorithms and a much higher rate of repulsive content next to their advertisements. He then called out those advertisers publicly as their motives appeared to be malicious in nature. Elon is trying to create a town square of diversity of thought; while others just ban accounts when they disagree with a different points of view. We should be supporting Elon’s efforts, not trampling on them at every turn. Sam, I love your content and your mind. I hope you can allow yourself to see these efforts in a different light. Thanks.
Unfortunately ideology trumps all - and Sam’s ideological views are firmly on the left and he’s so ill with TDS that he can’t view anything beyond that lens. However, he likes Douglas Murray, so for that I thank him and maybe just maybe, there’s hope for Sam after all.
Murray stating that Israel isn't promoting colonization and only speaking about Gaza and completely excluding the West Bank is a surreal level of turning a blind eye. I honestly do not understand how these discussions can take place with good faith in the face of blatant omissions like this.
Before Hamas Jewish and Arab used to live side by side with no problems. Goes back to age old argument. Canaan was granted to the Jewish people by God. You can argue with the Lord about His decision. His will is my will.
Israel offered the West Bank in 2008, PA walked out. You can’t complain about people settling territory if you rejected ownership of it. The Palestinians do not want a two state solution so being upset with Israel for the fact that there isn’t a two state solution is quite silly. I honestly do not understand how these discussions can take place with good faith in the face of blatant omissions like this.
@@birb7271 So I just want to get this straight... you want to use an accord offered 15 years ago to justify something happening actively today, as if these two things cancel out?
I would respond in depth but my comments keep getting magically deleted and I’m not sure why. TLDR; Israel no offer again for 15 years cause Palestinian state = violence. Hamas proves that.
Sam do you think you might have misconstrued what Elons objectives are for X? Why don't you interview him and find out personally, would love to hear that interview.
I should listen to this if only to process lunacy masquerading as rational morality. Or to try and understand how someone can think the flagrant igniting of international law, the flagrant genocide by Israel is somehow ok.
@@garyschultz425 here in Ireland in only the last couple of years the stabbing of 6 year olds the throat cutting of young women the beheading of gay men is been carried out by young Muslim men , not Jews not irish not English polish or Brazilian, but Muslims
@@garyschultz425 i think he is audience captured a bit...has to appeal to the right wing podcast listeners that make up his base lol. I don't know why. They NEVER LEFT
I find it absurd for concerns about Israel's treatment of Palestinians both over the last century and in the current slaughter of over 18 thousand and climbing civilians to be be reduced, callously, to "wokeness" Wokeness means being against genocide now?
Douglas Murray, The Voice of Hypocrisy. You have spent a month in Israel and have you not seen or heard the use of white phosphorus against Palestinian children? Did you not hear that the brutal, barbaric Israeli army killed four thousand children, and so far the total number of deaths and victims has reached 18,000 dead, and the hypocritical Douglas Murray says that this number is not enough, it must be more. This is the world of the hypocritical Sam Harris and Douglas Murray, shameful.
I love Sam. I wish I was nearly as smart as him. HOWEVER, his podcasts on the issue of the Palestine conflict sound more and more like an echo chamber.
Not true, Islam is a bloody cult made up by mentally disturbed human and blindly followed by 2 billions sheep who actually never read what is in the quoran. Once SH said good Muslim is an exMuslim and that's the best description ever. I have listened to hundreds of ex Muslim's stories and this epwople are really heroes in today's generation..
yeah, an echo chamber of moral clarity. Sometimes less obfuscation is better. Sometimes you don't need to hear all "opposing" sides (just look at the opinion cesspool that is Twitter), because on some issues there really isn't much ambiguity.
It’s nice to know that in a world full of people who like to just make nonsensical noise that there are people who like Sam Harris; who still have their wits about them. If it were not for people like Harris we would definitely be doomed.
Trumpism and the Elon cult has revealed some kind of latent psychiatric calamity. shits gonna be studied for a long time. I know totally competent, coherent people who when pressed on Elon's bullshit just totally short-circuit, and they seem totally unaware of the dissonance. It's a bit scary.
1. If Harvard is free to have any policy it wants, why is it not free to treat anti-Semitism differently than anti-LGBTQ rhetoric? 2. Isn't it consistent for Harvard to stand for the underdog in both cases? 3. Do you really believe Harvard would react differently if a student merely advocated killing black people, bringing back slavery, etc, without targeting any particular student on campus and without doing anything substantively because of their opinion?
1. They ARE free to have any policy they want. And students and donors are allowed to be as disgusted by said policy as they wish and can choose whether to attend/donate accordingly. Which is what is happening now. 2. Who is the underdog on a college campus? And underdog of what? And does one's "underdog" status absolve one of culpability if crimes or atrocities are committed? 3. Students should be able to express their opinions freely but when this devolves into intimidation by large groups on campus or physical harassment (ex: th-cam.com/video/VmJrIuSJXcM/w-d-xo.html), they have crossed a line. Given the urgency that the university has demonstrated towards the concerns of various other groups, the Jewish students are simply asking that their concerns be acknowledged as well. There is also a cadre of students that hold the disturbing view that one's humanity is contingent on their "position of power". I'm sure the Jewish students would like to be reassured that administration does not share in this dogma. The hesitancy with which the school administrators painfully delivered their answer regarding calls for Jewish genocide was alarming to many Americans. But understandably most alarming to a group that has repeatedly faced calls for extermination throughout history.
How, in that entire opening statement, did not even a blurb of condemnation against killing *innocent* Palestinians in careless retribution make it in there?
@@wgo523 In what way? There seems to be a strange reversal of blame. Hamas brutally attacked innocent civilians, then we have Muslims protesting on the streets of the UK like they've been attacked.
@@HelloJamesBond Palestinians were forcibly removed from their homes, and have lived under apartheid conditions for decades. Gaza is a prison with absolutely no hope for the people there. Israel controls their water and power. Israel kills people in their hospitals. This doesn't justify terror, but it sure explains it. Why do the Israeli lives lost shock you but the thousands of dead children Israeli kills don't? Israel, knowing this was how their country started, has chosen to make things worse for Palestinians, continued breaking international law . In every conflict the number of Palestinians DWARFS Israeli lives lost Recognizing that Hamas is evil is easy. They are. Recognizing that Israel is the government with power to actually move towards anything better is also very easy. The 18 thousand dead Palestinians do not make Israel safer, far from it This is so morally apparent that I find the deranged defense of every war crime of Israel's to be so offensive to those lives lost on Oct 7th
@@HelloJamesBondpicking the Hammas attack is a random starting point. Gazza had been under a midieval siege for 15 years during these times would go into Gazza and "mow the lawn" killing 100s on the best years and thousands on the worst years. This obviously doesn't excuse what Hammas has done, it is a terrorist act. But so is the IDF. As an evidence, 13,000 died in the West Bank which is not ruled by Hammas, didn't attack Israel. Israeli Prime Minister refered to the Amalek verse of the Bible (where the Jews committed a genocide against the Amalek). And really? The Muslims are the only ones protesting? Cause here in Canada, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Atheists like myself are protesting the barbaric actions of the Israeli government including warcrimes like bombing hospitals, churches and even a UN refugee camp. It's so weird that so called free speech absolutists are against protests when they don't like what they hear!
@@HelloJamesBond I listened to this yesterday while running errands. Douglas made a lot of ridiculous points and in general spoke completely from one side of a very heated debate. One that comes to mind: he said that denying the state of Israel was like disputing the basic fundamentals of mathematics (that's just an absurd thing to say about country that is less than 100 years old). He then mentioned that Pakistan was created around the same time. Well, unfortunately for the world it turns out that the relative success of an unrelated partition thousands of miles away from Israel doesn't really guarantee peace there. It's the very definition of comparing apples and oranges. Douglas made an emotionally compelling argument on behalf of Israel in the wake of a horribly traumatic event-- almost like a lawyer arguing for their client in court-- but I wouldn't call necessarily call that kind of argument "sane".
46:00 classic Murray. Set up a ridiculously perverted straw man argument and then call out its perversion. It is so sad that this kind of sophistry is mistaken for level-headedness.
oh so that's what's been perpetuating the conflict! Silly old me thought it was the illiberal Islamist ideology that seeks to conquer infidels and the annihilation of Jews in the Middle East. Now I know, if we would only speak softly and gently to the martyrdom-seeking terrorists, there would be peace in the Middle East. Thanks!
His repeated proclaiming a rebirth of Christianity as *the* silver bullet to counteract the encroachment of Islam in Europe is an absurdity that Ayaan Hersi Ali has, perversely, personally implemented. Good thing Hitch isn't around to have witnessed that..
TDS virus variant has now mutated into PDS (Palestinian derangement syndrome). The lack of self awareness amongst these purported "thought leaders" is deafening.
Sam has clearly chosen to promote one side of the story and goes all in with no multiperspective approach. It's not a black or white situation; no one is guilt-free on either side. This time, you disappoint me, Sam
Murray spews contempt & lack of empathy. Sam agrees. What kind of ethical framework is this? Extremists capture narratives but both sides are at fault.
Yes, Sam Harris disappoints me too. In this case, it seems he has simply taken a podcast from someone else (Dan Senor), then putting his own rant about X and Musk before a topic which really, to my knowledge, has little to do with the conversation with Douglas Murray. He is piggybacking on the work of others to air his own opinion about a non-related topic. That makes, contrary to the title, no sense.
Dan Senor conveniently doesn’t mention anything regarding Israel settlement expansion or that Netanyahu as we now know actively favored keeping Hamas in power over de PLO
I'm sure Israel will be highly motivated to get rid of the settlements around the West Bank now that they got to see all the good that withdrawing from Gaza did them. Netanyahu favoured Hamas over the PLO. As it happens, so did the people of Gaza when they had their say. If polls are to be believed that hasn't changed since. Abbas is no prize either, but I guess it's not difficult to look like the sane choice when your competition is a literal death cult.
They removed all settlements from Gaza almost 20 years ago. Actually I went to volunteer move their houses as a pro Palestinian. Little did I know this would create the 4th reich
That introduction about Elon and X is wild. Harsh words. I think Sam misses the picture and shows no humility about being wrong or assuming, which it is by definition, just a hard stance that has clear blindsides
The podcast starts with Sam criticizing Elon for platforming bad people with bad ideas. Fast forwards 10 mins and he says "Any speech should be allowed on college campuses, even 'the devil himself should be allowed to speak." The double standard reeks of personal bias.
"X is a safe space for tyrants" is something the far left would say for anyone who has a different opinion. I'm a fan of Sam but his criticisms of Elon sounds vindictive and petty
@user-lt4nm1iy3h yup Sam starts with this intentionally. He has a clear ideological political belief system that he's set out to pedestal for his own personal benefit (self serving but also for the political party he supports)
@@user-lt4nm1iy3hIt literally is a safe space for tyrants, as Musk caters to the censorious whims of tyrannical governments so Twitter can exist in those countries. That’s precisely what Harris was referring to.
In "The Moral Landscape", Sam wrote, "Anyone who wants to understand the world should be open to new facts and new arguments, even on subjects where his or her views are very well established. Similarly, anyone truly interested in morality-in the principles of behavior that allow people to flourish-should be open to new evidence and new arguments that bear upon questions of happiness and suffering." With his refusal to bring on a Pro Palestinian speaker, we see how much value he puts on his own supposed principles.
It baffles me that Sam isn’t able to see both perspectives on this subject. To hear Douglas Murray speak is to hear someone speak with very selective compassion.
The trouble is that unlike Nazi Germany or imperial Japan, the Palestinians are surrounded by countries and peoples who will continue to encourage them whatever defeats they endure.
Yet Sam is perfectly OK with manipulating the levers of democracy and free speech if it involves suppressing someone or something *he* decrees unsafe or an existential threat. Have all mirrors been removed from the Harris household?
@@AllAhabNoMoby Sam's entire brand is his perceived intellectual capacity. He gets shaky when things spill over into dealing with the unwashed masses. Politics and religion are rife with corruption and con men, but they both allow the people the illusion that they have some agency or connection to the divine. Sam seems disconnected with what happens when you remove this illusion (or when people start seeing through it.)
Having just read an excellent article by Sam on Islamophobia I had high hopes but the lack of any empathy for Palestinians in that conversation is frankly disgusting. I listen to pro Palestinian media that cannot even acknowledge the evil of Oct 7, then pro Israel commenters that cannot show a word of empathy for children being killed in Gaza and that refusal to acknowledge the humanity of the other side is why this conflict continues and Israel cannot secure peaceful existence.
No empathy given to the victims of Oct 7 by the pro-Palestine camp from the start either. By the way, how do you suppose Arab media talks about Jews or the West? Go on broadcasting your empathy, but don't expect them to return the kindness.
Well, I read Israeli media and have been searching online and can find little evidence of any empathy for Palestinians among ordinary Israelis, apart from a few familiar faces from the old left/peace movement, and certainly nothing from the Israeli government. I don't think most Israelis are rejoicing in Palestinian deaths, but they do seem to be consciously or sub-consciously blocking out what is going on in Gaza and choosing not to question the myth that Israel fights in a 'moral' way - warning civilians, targeted strikes, etc - which is clearly not the case. I also think Israel could have set up huge evacuation refugee camps across the Gaza border in the Negev and got civilians to evacuate there to safety, with easy access to unlimited humanitarian aid, while the IDF went after Hamas in Gaza, if it really cared about minimising civilian casualties.
@@geekylove3603 Does it not mean willingness to speak openly and honestly? You don't think he speaks candidly, especially in the context of today's 'cancel culture' environment?
19:08 Dan misinterprets what Murray meant by "the price is high". He meant that, as told in Murray's own example, based on the fact of Sinwar's release and then his rise through Hamas and his subsequent planned Oct. 7th attack on the very Jewish people who released him, it is the Israeli's that paid the price for having released him in the first 'exchange' instance.
From a guy with a podcast title, "Why I won't criticise Israel," this should be fair and balanced. In his 1st 2 minutes, Sam shows his disregard for his listeners intelligence. Literally under Dawsey, Sam said, "It's a private company, he can do what he likes."
i'm 11 minutes in and this doesn't make sense: Sam criticizes Elon for platforming horrible(conspiratorial, racist, antisemetic, etc) people. Sam doesn't think people like that should be platformed on X. Fair enough. But then he says "ALL speech should be allowed on college campuses...they should even allow the devil himself to speak" Seems a bit of a contradiction. Colleges should allow ANYONE to speak, but X should not?
In a college, there's an educated audience with higher than average capacity to challenge presented ideas. Average Xitter user is a barely literate gooner.
Murray describes the feelings in Israel accurately. I too was a leftist, voted for the Israeli Labor, and believed we can have peace with the Palestinians. I can no longer delude myself that peace is possible. The burden of proof that there’s a peace-seeking nation on the other side of the fence now falls on the shoulders of the Palestinians.
wow the comments are being censored. i had to check into this account to check. it's like on twitter where sam would block everyone that criticises him
I really wish they would have more adequately assessed the civilian death toll. Or entertained other alternatives (tactically speaking) to eradicating Hamas without killing so many innocent civilians. I enjoy Douglas’s assessment of current events, but I think he’s taken an overly apologetic position when it comes to the West in general and nation states with a colonial history. We can agree that the “West is best” while still acknowledging that resistance by people like the Palestinians is absolutely inevitable without adequately engaging with them. Conversations like this seem to miss out on the staggering male unemployment and other conditions feeding radicalism in Gaza and other Palestinian communities.
You can expect resistance, sure. But expecting is not the same as justifying, and surely you can be critical of the form the "resistance" takes and respond to it as the violent threat that it is.
You are bang on. And you could go much much further. Douglas is a partisan on this issue who presents himself as a moral authority. To take just one thing he said and tear it to shreds as many many things he said here could be: "if u call Gaza a concentration camp then you are trying to hurt Jews." Two of the most famous people to use that term are Jewish: Chomsky and Finkelstein. While people are obviously free to believe who they will and take whatever side they like, both of those men would wipe the floor with Murray on the history and correct use of terminology of this conflict.
@@Fromer23Exactly! Hamas did a apartheid. What did they think was gonna happen😂? When you do apartheid this thing happen! They shouldn't be surprise😂🤣😂. The world has always fought against apartheid terrorists like Mandela! I'm glad he's rotting in prison with the terrorist family of Justin Amash!
@@Fromer23 I don't claim to know. What I do know is killing more than 5 thousand children and women, destroying an entire city, limiting life supplies to a civilian population, and prohibiting impartial press/international organizations from entering is not the right strategy. I am not good at math. So if someone asks me how they should prepare for a math test, I probably wouldn't know what the perfect strategy is. But I would know that tearing your math book, playing video games all day, and getting drunk on the night of the test is not it. You can now proceed with calling me antisemitic and a terrorist sympathizer.
If these people on this podcast represent the majority of Americans, good bye freedom of speech and constitutional rights. Free speech is a principle that should be universal, and not taken away when it makes us uncomfortable or exposes us.
Sam I thought Elon’s outburst was caused by Disney threatening to pull advert if certain demands weren’t met. Elon won’t let the advertisers dictate who can and cannot use the platform.
@@jhibbitt1 yeah. I almost forgot about the part where he mentioned “people just want consistency” or something to that effect… lol *edit* I like Sam as well.
There’s a palpable contempt Douglas has when talking about American’s understanding of history, (or lack-thereof) that I find REALLLLY entertaining lolol
Yeah except he follows it with the most moronic point imaginable. There's no colonisation in Israel? What else do you call driving people from their homes? By Douglas's logic he could come to Ireland and take a person's home as he has an Irish name. No one thinks this. He's lying to avoid the truth of Israel's position. You can argue that Israel are justified due to Arab aggression but Israelis themselves bloody call themselves settlers and openly take over territory. Almost all colonisations have some phony legal basis but they are still forms of colonialism.
The people responsible for gazan children are their government. The party currently ruling is Hamas. Please forward all of your complaints to the Hamas complaint department. @@kmg474
Most younger people I know will ostracize anyone who voices even mild support for Israel, saying that this condones genocide and apartheid. You have to pretend you don't know anything about it if you want to maintain friendships/ relationships. You can't voice your opinion or have a discussion about the issue (unless you have the same opinion of "Israel bad"), there is no listening on the other end, just automatic, blind condemnation.
Hi, older person here. Voicing mild support for an explicitly genocidal and apartheid nation is seen as supporting genocide and apartheid? Crazy. They much be on something, and the problem is clearly not you.
37:53 omg. Murray makes a point so many of us have missed all along, and especially those who, like he says, "think this is was a legitimate or "natural' response to oppression". If you believe that, then you must also believe that all Palestinians or oppressed people anywhere are as sick as those 4,000 Hamas.
Incorrect timestamp. “He who _is_ faithful in _what is_ least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in _what is_ least is unjust also in much.” - Luke 16:10 [NKJV] “How about _Shutsuke_ in these small matters? _He who is faithful in little is faithful in much._ - James O. Coplien (in _Clean Code_ ) “Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less than your best.” - Robert C. Martin, _Clean Code_
Most people do not resist oppression. But when people are driven to desperation they are much more engage in desperate actions. This, yes, is true all over. Are all Irish as bad as IRA bombers who killed civilians? Most people don't think so though the IRA had a lot of support at times
I don't really understand your point. Are you seriously saying that people living in an open air prison, the majority of whom have never stepped foot outside the 140sq/mile strip of land due to an internationally recognized illegal occupation....couldn't possibly lead to violence? Or the complete control of the flow of food, water, and electricity being controlled deliberately by your occupying nation? Maybe your one of the thousand's of Palestinians that have tried to peacefully protest at the border only to be met by IDF sniper fire and poisonous gas (Video taped and UN recognized). Imagine being born into this "country" for a moment... Who would you blame for these obvious human rights violations?
@@Boostwerks Thanks for asking. No, I'm only saying that most of them, even if they "felt" extreme anger would not resort to the inhumane violence that Hamas did on the 7th. That type of violence generally means one has lost their own 'soul' and likely does not even ever feel love with their own kin. I can be wrong, here but it does seem one has to give up a lovely piece of themselves in order to be able to do the things they did to other humans or even say, an animal.
I don’t get it… if Douglas Murray could desist from using condescension and what comes across as total contempt for anyone suggesting there might be a more humane way to rout out Hamas, I’d be more inclined to trust him. I mean - others seem to manage to persuade without insulting those with alternative views. Compare with Christopher Hitchens. Categorical for sure - but I sensed an underlying respect , not only for whoever he was contradicting but for dialectic itself. Or maybe he took them out with such elegance that even his opponents left feeling justly humiliated. Lol.
Agreed, issue with Douglas Murray is that he's dismisses others with contemptibly naive arguments like "they dont understand history" - when it is abundantly clear he isn't aware for example that Hamas 1) won an election in 2006 because they lied about being a liberal democratic party and 2) They're not like Nazis, because Hamas is fundamentally islamic jihad, which is more robust than Nazism.
It is not strange how the anti-American left has sided with anti-American Islamic fundamentalism. There's no mystery here at all. They're running quite a propaganda effort, and it seems effective. They have about 33% of the nation in support of those chanting for genocide of Jews.
Topic for the next episode: Put cameras in the studio? It’s undeniable that your needed knowledge will reach a larger audience. TikTok? The attention economy? Do you want to restrict the audience to a small number? If so, why?
Douglas is an ace polemicist, and a very talented debater. But unlike Sam, the slippage away from facts is rampant in his diatribes. Even in this podcast, I am sympathetic to Murray's general view. A part of me loves the way he shits on bad ideas. All good. But, as with his biggest whopper of late--when he declared that Hamas was clearly worse than the Nazis on the level of moral intent--he just can't stay away from the hyperbole that drowns whatever good points he makes. Plus I'll never get over the xenophobic stuff, the rank bigotry of Murray that he dresses up as insight. @@tobycokes1
@@GregorDotUSTotally agree, very well said. Murray is very entertaining as a debater (and a talented one) but he comes across as a propagandist on this topic to me. 0% nuance on certain issues and zero attempts to hide his disgust for all things remotely Arab.
This is all going to age so beautifully (terribly) for Sam. I found his work on mindfulness and consciousness so interesting years ago. Idk why he chooses to frolic in the mud with Murray who is objectively crazy.
I am a long term fan and supporter of Sam and I find myself agreeing with him on most topics. However, I don’t find his perspective on the current conflict balanced. Of course it can be totally true that the Hamas attack was an absolutely terrible war crime committed against innocent civilians but at the same time that the Israeli government is committing atrocities. It is a fact that Israeli officials have stated that “maximal destruction is the focus, not precision”, “Palestinians are animals and Gaza will be inhabitable for human beings”, “Gaza will be turned into a parking lot” etc. Civilians have been deprived food, water, electricity and fuel from the beginning and this has resulted in mass starvation. More civilians have been killed in two months than during 20 years of the war in Afghanistan. C. 70% of Gaza city has been damaged or destroyed (compared to eg c. 60% of Dresden during the entire WWII). These are simple mainstream facts for anyone to investigate and they have never been remotely addressed by Sam. I do miss Sam’s usual ability to analyze a complex issue and remain sober in his assessments even when the entire world resorts to black and white thinking. Since Sam is part of the Jewish community, this would be especially powerful coming from him. From my perspective it is obvious that both Hamas (clearly war criminals) and the Israeli leadership must stand accountable for all actions taken and be judged in accordance with international law when this is all over. That is the only way that we will be able to gain clarity into what has been going on behind the walls of intense propaganda that is being generated by both sides. If atrocities are being committed then the people responsible must be held accountable. This should be an obvious rational position to take, yet I’m sure that many in this chat would find that controversial. Why is that? Where did the civilized world go? If not even Sam can bring himself to resist tribalism / identity politics I think we are all lost.. Again, I am not a Hamas supporter (I hate them), I am not a leftist. I do believe that both Israelis and Palestinians deserve their own countries (the position that the entire international community incl. the US have taken for decades). I am a long term fan of Sam but I don’t find his approach intellectually honest on this topic.
Musk actually had a brilliant proposal on this topic (Lex’ podcast if I remember correctly). Israel should go out of their way to protect and provide humanitarian aid to innocent civilians while engaging with Hamas on the ground. This is the strategy that the US deployed in Afghanistan (they were extremely selective with bombing in civilian areas, never using bombs heavier than 500 pounds - Israel is routinely using 2000 pound bombs in residential areas). The strategic reasoning behind this is to avoid creating new terrorists. This is exactly what’s happening now, just look at rising support for Hamas on the west bank for example and the (tragic) rise in antisemitism globally. For every Hamas terrorist killed, how many new ones are you creating? That is the most important ratio to focus on. If less than 1 you are “winning” against Hamas. If more than 1, Israel is losing strategically against Hamas and will make the region less safe. One should also undermine support for Hamas by providing a political vision for Gazans. Bibi is instead saying that a two state solution will never happen (in opposition with Biden and the entire world at this point). That is a receipt for an ongoing killing on both sides (while likely keeping Bibi in power for the foreseeable future).
You pay very close attention to words but look at the actions -- why would the IDF setup humanitarian zones and facilitate the movement of civilians whom they were attempting to genocide? Your narrative isnt even self consistent.
How is depriving civilians of food and water for more than two months not an atrocity btw? About 10% of needed supplies have been delivered during more than two months. Now starvation and disease is spreading like wildfire. Something like 30% of all children under five were already malnourished in Gaza prior to Oct 7.
@@twntwrs Hitchens was right about those points. Sadly, I think they make little difference to the pragmatic reality of the situation. Israel seems absolutely adamant about continuing to exist *as a Jewish state* , and they have far more military might. So I think Palestinians will have to accept that premise in order to get peace.
Doesn’t mean he was correct. You just want him to be. Perhaps you need to understand why? Do you want to see Islam prevail in the world? Because this is what it comes down to.
@@majorkuntz Do you want to see islam not prevail ? You know that would take a genocide of more than a billion people ? One that would dwarf every butcher in history combined ? WTF dou you want "to see" ?
Sam, please consider putting the perspectives of more Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims on your podcast. For example, could your get Bassem Youssef? I would love to hear that conversation! And many others. I have no doubt about your great empathy for people in general, but everyone can have blind spots that they are unaware of. Please.
Agree with everything except strawmaning of the proportionality argument - it’s not only applied to Israel. That’s completely untrue. Protecting unnecessary or easily preventable civilian deaths is a moral obligation. And not doing so must be condemned, no matter who does it. Not saying if the IDF is doing enough or not doing enough to not kill civilians but clearly there is an obligation to not kill unnecessarily
They try to minimise civilian deaths given that Hamas constantly uses civilian buildings as command centres which is a war crime btw. Hamas also prevents people from leaving where Israel has previously warned it will attack
Could somebody explain to me what the purpose of this episode was supposed to be? I tried to listen all the way through but it became increasingly clear that no attempt was going to be made at understanding the other perspective, and at that point I ask genuinely, what’s the purpose? The only one I can see is to polarize.
The last time Sam tried representing a perspective very different from his was Scott Adams. He didn't do it regarding the 2020 election or Covid. Why would you expect it on this topic?
@@JackSchitt-p9t I just discovered Sam so I didn’t know that, I was just hoping that somebody as (ostensibly) intelligent as him would understand how dangerous polarization and a lack of empathy are. And I’m still genuinely curious what the purpose of this podcast was
@@therealtulip If they were trying to find the truth, then the other side would be represented. We don't determine the guilt or innocence of a defendant by letting only the prosecution speak.
100% He can't stand against someone who has empirical evidence to back their beliefs up. No more arguing with priests, rabbis, and fairytales, Sam. Time to try a bigger challenge and face someone who has facts!
@lucay2222 Absolutely. Sam rose to fame during a period when religious debates were very popular in media. He challenged himself by directly seeking those who disagreed with him: religious "intellectuals" like William Criag, Reza Aslan, and Fareed Zakaria. Anyone who dabbles in some atheism can easily dismantle these religious arguments but Sam was especially gifted with his systematic approach and usually came out of these debates looking exceptional. Even his debates with Peterson and Shapiro end up with his opponents using religious ideals which Sam could deconstruct. The problem now is that Sam, intentionally or not, seems to forget that we are at heart, human first- meaning despite religious beliefs, thr vast majority of people simply wants their basic needs met in life and otherwise try to live quite peacefully. On the issue of Palestine, Sam has ignored historical, political, and economic contexts in favour of pushing a religious viewpoint. He has not addressed how decades of suffering could affect a populations development. He has not brought one pro Palestinian voice on his podcast. He steers away from those that actual evidence to support their view instead of philosophy. Keeping in mind, in his book, The Moral Landscape, Sam wrote, " Anyone who wants to understand the world should be open to new facts and new arguments, even on subjects where his or her views are very well established. Similarly, anyone truly interested in morality-in the principles of behavior that allow people to flourish-should be open to new evidence and new arguments that bear upon questions of happiness and suffering." Amnesty International released a 2022 report warning the world of Israeli crimes in Gaza, documented the violent murders, raids, and kidnapping of Palestinians. This is not religion or if it is, he does not blame Judaism for thr violence of Osraelis. This is human nature motivated by power and greed. Sam would debate an actual historian if he cared about finding truth in this. Read how disappointed some of us former fans of Sam are in his podcasts on Israel and Gaza. I am an atheist but not everything is motivated purely by religion and it is important to know which situations are religiously motivated and which are not. We are human before we are converts.
Hey Sam. I was wondering about your position on the Israeli mode of operation in Gaza. Is it as horrible as they say? Is it propaganda from the far left? Im guessing somewhere in between. Condemning Hamas is easy to me, but who deserves condemnation on the Israeli side? Surely this conflict is more complicated than «muslims hate jews therefore they attack. Israel got attacked therefore they respond»
Somewhat surprisingly that’s pretty much how it turned out to be in the end. There is too much acceptance to what HAMAS wants to do among the Gazan muslims for them to rebel and overthrow their bad leadership, even after several peace offers and land divisions were already proposed in the past decades. Every time the muslim communities neighboring Israel launch attacks against the Jewish minority, they end up worse off than they were before - and then rather than confronting their own mistakes, they grow more angry and bitter still… repeat cycle. The same people who already received Jordania want another state called Palestine, and with all the Jewish people evicted or killed. In significant enough numbers anyway. It’s not a “settlement dispute”. It is a narcissistic injury of the umma - the idea that where Islam has spread, it should never retreat. In this context, Islam meaning the totalitarian and authoritarian regime - not the peaceful habits and traditions of the every day muslim.
"Surely this conflict is more complicated than «muslims hate jews therefore they attack. Israel got attacked therefore they respond»" Sam has let his viewpoint that Islam is a uniquely evil religion blind him to the geopolitical realities of the conflict. So even though he will, for example, criticize euphemistic "settlements" in the West Bank, whenever such Israeli actions lead to radicalization, he ends up circling back to blaming Islamic doctrine and anti-semitism. I'm not even denying that religious beliefs play a role, but they aren't everything, and the hatred goes in both directions. Simultaneously, he will interpret repeated Israeli expansionism as innocent self-defense. About a decade ago, Andrew Sullivan wrote an excellent article called "Why Sam Harris Won't Criticize Israel" that lays out these points in more detail. Despite the title sounding like an ad hominem dick-measuring contest, I think Sullivan remains fairly objective in his critique. But feel free to use your own judgement. Lastly, I'm glad you condemn Hamas, as do I. The far left has really dropped the ball on what should be the easiest acknowledgement of all time.
@@manofculture584 Well it is and it isn’t. The way groups of people get trapped into these destructive ideologies, how they function individually and within the collective, etc. - it’s not exactly straightforward. If we knew how to free people from cults, someone would have already suggested that instead of this stalemate that seems to exist since the original UN declaration for a Jewish state. If you’ve ever had a relative with a strongly held but very counterproductive viewpoint, you’ll know some people are just beyond help. A recent poll suggests as many as 7 out of 10 Gazans approve of HAMAS action, so it’s going to be a tough sell to get the remaining 3 to pipe up and start protesting, much less for the other 7 to actually change their minds.
I wondered what the heck Sam was talking about. I don't remember reading anything about Elon threatening to sue Disney. It was clear that Elon was referring to the people as "the judge". Sam is interpreting hearing what he wants to hear.
@@feklar3470 yeah, I knew about that... after Disney and other companies pulled their advertising influenced by the ADL. That's regarding defamation. ADL isn't an advertiser.
@@Ilovedoggie313 That 'kangaroo court' elects every single politician & legislator in every single democracy, who then create and pass laws. What's your point here?
Murray is a rock and morally consistent. Sam's the opposite - and factually wrong about Elon. He's an ideologe at heart. Sam talking about hypocrisy is pretty rich.
I hope you, Sam, have at least attempted to have Elon on and interview/debate him instead of just bashing him all the time. I think many would love to hear that. Wasn't what I was expecting in this video =/
Once again Sam intentionally misreads a situation. Elon knows they pulled advertising because he lets "wrong speak" on the platform and won't fall in line with the political desires of a certain side. He knows they are using their "ad dollar revenue" as leverage to get him to fall in line. And he told them FY. He ( and everyone else ) knows X this pressure is political pressure. And Sam here implies it's "defective product" because if Sam said "political pressure" he by his own "principles" may have to side with Elon.
Wow, Sam actually thinks that not running adds makes his opinions more trustworthy, rather than the unhinged mental faccaulty he demonstrates as a result of Elon spurning his friendship. Dont bother writing a more detailed analysis of his psychosis as his team will take it down. The Triggernometry episode said everything we need to know about Sams moral compass lest we all to soon forget.
Israel is regrettably so far loosing the information war. Already the second day after the attack, "nobody" was talking about the victims and the dreadful acts by Hamas. According all kind of high brow people, including a lot of well educated young Arabs from our universities, were taking the stance instead that Israel should be held responsible for any deviation in its reactions from international war right, treaties and so on and so forth. Moreover there appears to be a surprising connection between support for the Hamas/Palestinian cause and all kind of newer emancipatory movements in our society. While the Arabs who are from here supporting the Hamas/Palestinian cause, have in general not much of a positive attitude towards those emancipatory movements. How anybody can be surprised a revenge follows on cold blooded murder of hundreds of people is an enigma.
They’re not advertising on X for political reasons. It has nothing to do with hate on X. Twitter was always a dumpster fire full of hate- it’s just more balanced across the political spectrum now. They of course have every right to not advertise for political reasons, but for you to deliberately ignore the politics makes you look terrible.
It is absolutely baffling how people can follow a clear thinker like Sam Harris and at the same time have sympathy for Trump & Alex Jones. I guess those people don't really understand a word Sam Harris is saying, but somehow understood that Harris has a problem with Islam and therefore liked him.
Harris doesn't offer substance or which Trump policies were worst in his description of Trump. I wish he could be more clear about which specific Trump and GOP policies personally held him back or kept him from success by taking too much of his money, or reducing his freedom, or reducing opportunities for certain ethnicities in the US.
@@troy3456789 well, maybe just start with January 6th. If you don't think that is a HUGE deal then you maybe don't belong in a free and functioning Democracy and are better off in a Banana Republic. The fact that Trump is having 4 major cases in court right now doesn't bother you? Well, it quite rightly bothers Sam Harris and he rightfully often expressed concern over Trump's election denial. A criminal like Trump is supposed to make laws? Again Banana Republic. NO President so far did just come close to what Trump is doing in terms of destroying the West. Trying to steal an election by sending a mob to the capitol, pressuring politicians to make up votes, keeping nuclear secrets in his private toilet and showing them around, believing Putin over his own Intelligence Service... Trump should be locked up as a traitor. There is never been such a disgrace to Freedom and Democracy as Trump and his minions and whoever doubts it has NO morale compass whatsoever.
@@troy3456789huh?! You think "policy" is why people hate trump.😂😂. How about trying to steal an election, how about incoherenyly lying at every opportunity, how about being grotesquely narcissistic?
43:04 “Hamas wants to go back to October the 6th. On October the 6th there was a ceasefire of a kind. Hamas broke it. Now Hamas must pay the price.”
That sums it up very well, I think.
I would think so too - if it were true. It's not.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"
Martin Luther King Jr (A Proper
Sense of Priorities speech delivered Feb 6, 1968)
@futuredeadguy3485 I know you don't have the body part required for thinking
He also said militarism, poverty, and racism were the 3 big issues. How many of Sam's cohort have issues with militarism and poverty?
@@rjridge6791 You think you’re the only one that cares about poverty and militarism, and the only cure is socialism? There’s sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity, right there.
A quote for the ages. Thank you for posting.
Sums up Sam perfectly.
I know you'll never read this Sam, but I appreciate the work. It's good knowing that there are at least a few sane voices in the world.
I'm not sure you would say this if you realized how often Sam has his facts wrong. Rationalizing and telling the truth are not the same.
Sam lives in an information bubble created by liberal elites. He does not investigate anything for himself.
I read it for him
1. If Harvard is free to have any policy it wants, why is it not free to treat anti-Semitism differently than anti-LGBTQ rhetoric?
2. Isn't it consistent for Harvard to stand for the underdog in both cases?
3. Do you really believe Harvard would react differently if a student merely advocated killing black people, bringing back slavery, etc, without targeting any particular student on campus and without doing anything substantively because of their opinion?
I read it for him too, and I repeat your words.
"Israel does listen to international pressure" - How can he say this when you have almost every single country in the UN saying the continued settlements are illegal? Has Israel not been expanding settlements in the West Bank for decades despite constant international pressure?
I'm honestly so disappointed that Sam is platforming such biased right wing commentators. Throughout this war, Douglas Murray has gone completely mask off racist against Arabs, yet his friends and fans just completely ignore it.
That same resolution says Israel needs to be recognised as a state, which most Arab nations refuse to do until this day. The war is not going to end unilaterally, by pressuring Israel to give up security for nothing in return
Do you realize that the Palestinians NEVER did their part of the Oslo agreement?? They kept pretending to stop terrorism (the "revolving doors" policy), and in 2001, they launched the "second intifada," where suicide terrorists from the west bank murdered thousands of Israelis by blowing themselves up on busses and restaurants in Israel. Because of it, the C territories stayed under Israel's authority. Why do people never hold the Palestinians accountable for their own actions???
The settlements are actually made by private individuals - like Jared kushner. Israel does bulldoze illegal settlements. But because they are a nation of laws it often takes years to go through the courts. So in the time it takes the government to properly get one settlement demolished, 10 more have been created
@@Shmimbleton If we are talking about Israel, then yes, they need to stop forcing Palestinians out of their homes. They've been doing this for decades and these are crimes. If they want to be recognize as a state then I'm all for it, they have a right to live there, but stealing land and homes, that is just unnacceptable.
You hit the nail on the head with "so many people just want to see shit break". How did we get here?
Antifa's mission statement.
Funny how easy it is to identify all those people wanting to 'see shit break' yet having no idea how we got here. People tend to want to sustain something if it's going well and they're allowed in on it. Funny part is, it's Harris himself who seems willing to break the entire system to get rid of what he, as an individual, deems threatening. Why don't these shit-breakers just get degrees, become neuroscientist-philosophers, and make big bucks with a podcast?
Thank God for Douglas Murray and his unflinching speaking truth to the mindless mob.
My god, Murray is a lazy racist.
Sort your head out.
Lol so cringe
Sam should amend his opening comments about Elon to correct his statement that Elon is suing advertisers. He's suing Media Matters, not advertisers (as far as I know).
Edit: It's been pointed out to me that Sam said Elon was "threatening to sue advertisers" not actively suing them. Is there evidence that Elon has threatened to sue advertisers? I'm not finding that with a cursory Google search. Honest question.
I felt that was off, I think Sam is slightly off base on that "situation". When two groups are fighting it's not helpful to overestimate the flaws in one or the other.
He said threatening to sue advertisers, which he has done, not actively suing them, as he is doing with Media Matters. Perhaps you should correct your comment.
He said in the interview "tell it to the judge", but he was referring to the public. Sam might've interpreted this as him suing advertisers.
His legal case isn't because they won't advertise.
It is because they spread actual lies. Misrepresenting adverts as being next to inappropriate tweets, when this didn't happen.
Yeah, I was kind of hoping he would include that in the opening but I don’t think he’s Elon’s biggest fan. Happy to hear his perspective though
I agree with almost everything you've shared on this Sam but the lack of analysis / consideration on a ceasefire and other means to fighting Jihadism is confusing to me. Are 12k deaths not the most troubling ethical dilemma to address now? You can cover Palestinian suffering as well and I find it puzzling you dont.
Thank you! It's become clear that Sam has no interest in inspiring anything close to a productive discourse regarding the War. Instead he has decided to double down in his defense of Israel's actions while simultaneously adding nothing new to the conversation. It's baffling how anyone can think this is at all important content.
Well, as Douglas mentioned in this very podcast - there was an effective ceasefire already; until Hamas decided to commit the atrocities of October 7th. Israel has every right to retaliate.
Tell Hamas to stop starting fights they can't finish
@@isaacjj55 I am also struggling to agree with a lot of things Douglas is saying here.
They are troubling, but the trouble is the responsibility of Hamas.
I love Sam but what I've been noticing is that since Covid he has only been inviting guests who absolutely agree with him on every single topic, whether its politics, social issues or humanity. It has been truly exhausting for the past 3 years to listen to Sam and his guests talk about how much they agree with one another. Instead of a 10 min opening monologue about how much Elon is in the wrong, why doesn't he just invite the guy on his podcast to hear his perspective on it? I mean until when is he going to refuse to bring other pespective into the picture? I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy.
Agree! Long term fan of Sam here but for some time it has just felt like his podcast is only about platforming people that reiterate his own views. And the fall-outs with interesting thinkers like Bret and Elon. He only criticizes them again and again instead of engaging with them in any conversation.
Yes!! Hell Ill even say he should bring Vivek on...the guy has been completely open to talking to people who disagree with him. Would love to hear some back and forth there. Neither discussion will happen, I think he has demonstrated VERY clearly that he doesnt really believe in public discourse about controversial topics.
Sam isn't to blame for only inviting guests sympathetic to his views. After all he has no free will to do otherwise.
a yes, covid was sam's nemesis.
Regarding Elon; media matters significantly manipulated the data to convince advertisers not to advertise on X; then some advertisers exited due to this lie. His statement was directed at those advertisers who hypocritically exited X while still advertising on platforms that have “hidden” algorithms and a much higher rate of repulsive content next to their advertisements. He then called out those advertisers publicly as their motives appeared to be malicious in nature. Elon is trying to create a town square of diversity of thought; while others just ban accounts when they disagree with a different points of view. We should be supporting Elon’s efforts, not trampling on them at every turn. Sam, I love your content and your mind. I hope you can allow yourself to see these efforts in a different light. Thanks.
You shouldn't simp and repeat the lies of big money interests and people. Not a good look bro
@BrianByrnz- I could not agree more or have said it better- thank you!
@@venicebeachsportsnetwork6677as long as we’re telling people what they should say… you shouldn’t call people Bro. Not a good look.
Exactly! Well said! Sam simply doesn't understand the basics but just keeps on framing. Sam was also one of the biggest Vaxx-Promoters!
Unfortunately ideology trumps all - and Sam’s ideological views are firmly on the left and he’s so ill with TDS that he can’t view anything beyond that lens. However, he likes Douglas Murray, so for that I thank him and maybe just maybe, there’s hope for Sam after all.
Murray stating that Israel isn't promoting colonization and only speaking about Gaza and completely excluding the West Bank is a surreal level of turning a blind eye. I honestly do not understand how these discussions can take place with good faith in the face of blatant omissions like this.
Before Hamas Jewish and Arab used to live side by side with no problems. Goes back to age old argument. Canaan was granted to the Jewish people by God. You can argue with the Lord about His decision. His will is my will.
Israel offered the West Bank in 2008, PA walked out. You can’t complain about people settling territory if you rejected ownership of it. The Palestinians do not want a two state solution so being upset with Israel for the fact that there isn’t a two state solution is quite silly.
I honestly do not understand how these discussions can take place with good faith in the face of blatant omissions like this.
@@birb7271 So I just want to get this straight... you want to use an accord offered 15 years ago to justify something happening actively today, as if these two things cancel out?
@@Rave.- lol why can’t I comment
I would respond in depth but my comments keep getting magically deleted and I’m not sure why. TLDR; Israel no offer again for 15 years cause Palestinian state = violence. Hamas proves that.
Sam do you think you might have misconstrued what Elons objectives are for X? Why don't you interview him and find out personally, would love to hear that interview.
Well put
Love listening to Douglas Murray
I should listen to this if only to process lunacy masquerading as rational morality. Or to try and understand how someone can think the flagrant igniting of international law, the flagrant genocide by Israel is somehow ok.
@@garyschultz425 here in Ireland in only the last couple of years the stabbing of 6 year olds the throat cutting of young women the beheading of gay men is been carried out by young Muslim men , not Jews not irish not English polish or Brazilian, but Muslims
@@garyschultz425 i think he is audience captured a bit...has to appeal to the right wing podcast listeners that make up his base lol. I don't know why. They NEVER LEFT
Douglas and Dan, thank you both for this excellent interview.
Sam wasn't even in the interview. He just reuploaded it.
I find it absurd for concerns about Israel's treatment of Palestinians both over the last century and in the current slaughter of over 18 thousand and climbing civilians to be be reduced, callously, to "wokeness"
Wokeness means being against genocide now?
Gutless Murray in the house!
@@mustafaalawad8348You're only jealous 😞
Douglas Murray, The Voice of Hypocrisy. You have spent a month in Israel and have you not seen or heard the use of white phosphorus against Palestinian children? Did you not hear that the brutal, barbaric Israeli army killed four thousand children, and so far the total number of deaths and victims has reached 18,000 dead, and the hypocritical Douglas Murray says that this number is not enough, it must be more. This is the world of the hypocritical Sam Harris and Douglas Murray, shameful.
I love Sam. I wish I was nearly as smart as him.
HOWEVER, his podcasts on the issue of the Palestine conflict sound more and more like an echo chamber.
Not true, Islam is a bloody cult made up by mentally disturbed human and blindly followed by 2 billions sheep who actually never read what is in the quoran. Once SH said good Muslim is an exMuslim and that's the best description ever. I have listened to hundreds of ex Muslim's stories and this epwople are really heroes in today's generation..
yeah, an echo chamber of moral clarity. Sometimes less obfuscation is better. Sometimes you don't need to hear all "opposing" sides (just look at the opinion cesspool that is Twitter), because on some issues there really isn't much ambiguity.
@@JiYooLimcome on bud- there’s no points to make on the other side? You believe Israel good Palestine bad?
Israel good Hamas bad, yes. This was a conversation about Hamas.
@@JiYooLim I love how literally think ethnic cleansing is "moral clarity".
It’s nice to know that in a world full of people who like to just make nonsensical noise that there are people who like Sam Harris; who still have their wits about them. If it were not for people like Harris we would definitely be doomed.
Trumpism and the Elon cult has revealed some kind of latent psychiatric calamity. shits gonna be studied for a long time. I know totally competent, coherent people who when pressed on Elon's bullshit just totally short-circuit, and they seem totally unaware of the dissonance. It's a bit scary.
1. If Harvard is free to have any policy it wants, why is it not free to treat anti-Semitism differently than anti-LGBTQ rhetoric?
2. Isn't it consistent for Harvard to stand for the underdog in both cases?
3. Do you really believe Harvard would react differently if a student merely advocated killing black people, bringing back slavery, etc, without targeting any particular student on campus and without doing anything substantively because of their opinion?
1. They ARE free to have any policy they want. And students and donors are allowed to be as disgusted by said policy as they wish and can choose whether to attend/donate accordingly. Which is what is happening now.
2. Who is the underdog on a college campus? And underdog of what? And does one's "underdog" status absolve one of culpability if crimes or atrocities are committed?
3. Students should be able to express their opinions freely but when this devolves into intimidation by large groups on campus or physical harassment (ex: th-cam.com/video/VmJrIuSJXcM/w-d-xo.html), they have crossed a line. Given the urgency that the university has demonstrated towards the concerns of various other groups, the Jewish students are simply asking that their concerns be acknowledged as well. There is also a cadre of students that hold the disturbing view that one's humanity is contingent on their "position of power". I'm sure the Jewish students would like to be reassured that administration does not share in this dogma. The hesitancy with which the school administrators painfully delivered their answer regarding calls for Jewish genocide was alarming to many Americans. But understandably most alarming to a group that has repeatedly faced calls for extermination throughout history.
Sam is just as clueless and hysterical, he just says it quietly and smugly.
@@enisten Because they don't openly admit it. Because if they did, they'd have to explain why, and they can't.
How, in that entire opening statement, did not even a blurb of condemnation against killing *innocent* Palestinians in careless retribution make it in there?
Thank you Sam, thank you Douglas, thank you Dan for being voices of the people and voices of sanity. All are hero's of our time
Not sane, completely unhinged.
@@wgo523 In what way? There seems to be a strange reversal of blame. Hamas brutally attacked innocent civilians, then we have Muslims protesting on the streets of the UK like they've been attacked.
@@HelloJamesBond
Palestinians were forcibly removed from their homes, and have lived under apartheid conditions for decades. Gaza is a prison with absolutely no hope for the people there. Israel controls their water and power. Israel kills people in their hospitals. This doesn't justify terror, but it sure explains it.
Why do the Israeli lives lost shock you but the thousands of dead children Israeli kills don't?
Israel, knowing this was how their country started, has chosen to make things worse for Palestinians, continued breaking international law .
In every conflict the number of Palestinians DWARFS Israeli lives lost
Recognizing that Hamas is evil is easy. They are. Recognizing that Israel is the government with power to actually move towards anything better is also very easy.
The 18 thousand dead Palestinians do not make Israel safer, far from it
This is so morally apparent that I find the deranged defense of every war crime of Israel's to be so offensive to those lives lost on Oct 7th
@@HelloJamesBondpicking the Hammas attack is a random starting point. Gazza had been under a midieval siege for 15 years during these times would go into Gazza and "mow the lawn" killing 100s on the best years and thousands on the worst years. This obviously doesn't excuse what Hammas has done, it is a terrorist act. But so is the IDF. As an evidence, 13,000 died in the West Bank which is not ruled by Hammas, didn't attack Israel. Israeli Prime Minister refered to the Amalek verse of the Bible (where the Jews committed a genocide against the Amalek).
And really? The Muslims are the only ones protesting? Cause here in Canada, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Atheists like myself are protesting the barbaric actions of the Israeli government including warcrimes like bombing hospitals, churches and even a UN refugee camp. It's so weird that so called free speech absolutists are against protests when they don't like what they hear!
@@HelloJamesBond I listened to this yesterday while running errands. Douglas made a lot of ridiculous points and in general spoke completely from one side of a very heated debate. One that comes to mind: he said that denying the state of Israel was like disputing the basic fundamentals of mathematics (that's just an absurd thing to say about country that is less than 100 years old). He then mentioned that Pakistan was created around the same time. Well, unfortunately for the world it turns out that the relative success of an unrelated partition thousands of miles away from Israel doesn't really guarantee peace there. It's the very definition of comparing apples and oranges.
Douglas made an emotionally compelling argument on behalf of Israel in the wake of a horribly traumatic event-- almost like a lawyer arguing for their client in court-- but I wouldn't call necessarily call that kind of argument "sane".
46:00 classic Murray. Set up a ridiculously perverted straw man argument and then call out its perversion. It is so sad that this kind of sophistry is mistaken for level-headedness.
I find myself valuing Douglas' opinion less and less the last few years. Tried and true language that perpetuates conflict.
oh so that's what's been perpetuating the conflict! Silly old me thought it was the illiberal Islamist ideology that seeks to conquer infidels and the annihilation of Jews in the Middle East. Now I know, if we would only speak softly and gently to the martyrdom-seeking terrorists, there would be peace in the Middle East. Thanks!
His repeated proclaiming a rebirth of Christianity as *the* silver bullet to counteract the encroachment of Islam in Europe is an absurdity that Ayaan Hersi Ali has, perversely, personally implemented. Good thing Hitch isn't around to have witnessed that..
WOW, very powerful in such an important way. Thanks a lot for introducing Douglas Murray!
Has he interviewed anyone who disagrees with him about this, yet?
Hell no and he never will.
@@JackSchitt-p9t yea. too bad.
TDS virus variant has now mutated into PDS (Palestinian derangement syndrome). The lack of self awareness amongst these purported "thought leaders" is deafening.
Douglas Murray sounds brilliant every time. Best I've heard on the subject. Keep up your good work both of you 👏🏻
He is a Racist, divisive biased failed journalist, clinging on to nothing.
You might want to listen to Dr Norman Finkelstein, or Dr Gabor Mate... Both experts on the subject of Palestine.
@@jiggsawjazz🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣 I already listened to them. What's your point?
Sam has clearly chosen to promote one side of the story and goes all in with no multiperspective approach. It's not a black or white situation; no one is guilt-free on either side. This time, you disappoint me, Sam
Murray spews contempt & lack of empathy. Sam agrees. What kind of ethical framework is this? Extremists capture narratives but both sides are at fault.
exactly what i thought...
Yes, Sam Harris disappoints me too. In this case, it seems he has simply taken a podcast from someone else (Dan Senor), then putting his own rant about X and Musk before a topic which really, to my knowledge, has little to do with the conversation with Douglas Murray. He is piggybacking on the work of others to air his own opinion about a non-related topic. That makes, contrary to the title, no sense.
Mask off.
Harris has been dog whistling for years.
He hasn't fallen for the propaganda and evil associated with jihad. The truth hurts.
Dan Senor conveniently doesn’t mention anything regarding Israel settlement expansion or that Netanyahu as we now know actively favored keeping Hamas in power over de PLO
I'm sure Israel will be highly motivated to get rid of the settlements around the West Bank now that they got to see all the good that withdrawing from Gaza did them. Netanyahu favoured Hamas over the PLO. As it happens, so did the people of Gaza when they had their say. If polls are to be believed that hasn't changed since. Abbas is no prize either, but I guess it's not difficult to look like the sane choice when your competition is a literal death cult.
They removed all settlements from Gaza almost 20 years ago. Actually I went to volunteer move their houses as a pro Palestinian. Little did I know this would create the 4th reich
Jews living in West Bank has nothing to do with Hamas's terrorism.
a lot of comments here are being censored. for example there should be 3 replies above me but it only shows 1.
@@jimmyjohns-dl9rgIve noticed that a lot more on TH-cam over the past couple years
That introduction about Elon and X is wild. Harsh words. I think Sam misses the picture and shows no humility about being wrong or assuming, which it is by definition, just a hard stance that has clear blindsides
The podcast starts with Sam criticizing Elon for platforming bad people with bad ideas. Fast forwards 10 mins and he says "Any speech should be allowed on college campuses, even 'the devil himself should be allowed to speak." The double standard reeks of personal bias.
"X is a safe space for tyrants" is something the far left would say for anyone who has a different opinion. I'm a fan of Sam but his criticisms of Elon sounds vindictive and petty
@user-lt4nm1iy3h yup Sam starts with this intentionally. He has a clear ideological political belief system that he's set out to pedestal for his own personal benefit (self serving but also for the political party he supports)
@@user-lt4nm1iy3hIt literally is a safe space for tyrants, as Musk caters to the censorious whims of tyrannical governments so Twitter can exist in those countries. That’s precisely what Harris was referring to.
Exactly what I was thinking, zero consistency
In "The Moral Landscape", Sam wrote, "Anyone who wants to understand the world should be open to new facts and new arguments, even on subjects where his or her views are very well established. Similarly, anyone truly interested in morality-in the principles of behavior that allow people to flourish-should be open to new evidence and new arguments that bear upon questions of happiness and suffering." With his refusal to bring on a Pro Palestinian speaker, we see how much value he puts on his own supposed principles.
It baffles me that Sam isn’t able to see both perspectives on this subject. To hear Douglas Murray speak is to hear someone speak with very selective compassion.
The trouble is that unlike Nazi Germany or imperial Japan, the Palestinians are surrounded by countries and peoples who will continue to encourage them whatever defeats they endure.
The conversation starts at 14:30 so you don't have to listen to Sam-ramblings.
A good advise.
Yet Sam is perfectly OK with manipulating the levers of democracy and free speech if it involves suppressing someone or something *he* decrees unsafe or an existential threat. Have all mirrors been removed from
the Harris household?
I've always seen this about Sam. He is great on religion but he is blind on politics in general and the abuse of power of the State in particular.
@@AllAhabNoMoby Sam's entire brand is his perceived intellectual capacity. He gets shaky when things spill over into dealing with the unwashed masses. Politics and religion are rife with corruption and con men, but they both allow the people the illusion that they have some agency or connection to the divine. Sam seems disconnected with what happens when you remove this illusion (or when people start seeing through it.)
Having just read an excellent article by Sam on Islamophobia I had high hopes but the lack of any empathy for Palestinians in that conversation is frankly disgusting. I listen to pro Palestinian media that cannot even acknowledge the evil of Oct 7, then pro Israel commenters that cannot show a word of empathy for children being killed in Gaza and that refusal to acknowledge the humanity of the other side is why this conflict continues and Israel cannot secure peaceful existence.
Israel has more empathy to Palestinian children than anybody else. Not just by words, by action as well.
No empathy given to the victims of Oct 7 by the pro-Palestine camp from the start either. By the way, how do you suppose Arab media talks about Jews or the West? Go on broadcasting your empathy, but don't expect them to return the kindness.
@@iditgreenberg empathy to the tune of approaching if not surpassing 10,000 children killed?
@@twntwrswhy you just accept the numbers given by a bunch of murdering rapist war criminals I’ll never know.
Well, I read Israeli media and have been searching online and can find little evidence of any empathy for Palestinians among ordinary Israelis, apart from a few familiar faces from the old left/peace movement, and certainly nothing from the Israeli government. I don't think most Israelis are rejoicing in Palestinian deaths, but they do seem to be consciously or sub-consciously blocking out what is going on in Gaza and choosing not to question the myth that Israel fights in a 'moral' way - warning civilians, targeted strikes, etc - which is clearly not the case. I also think Israel could have set up huge evacuation refugee camps across the Gaza border in the Negev and got civilians to evacuate there to safety, with easy access to unlimited humanitarian aid, while the IDF went after Hamas in Gaza, if it really cared about minimising civilian casualties.
Douglas's candor, and his commitment to the truth, is very refreshing -- especially in our world that is inundated with mendacious propaganda.
I don't think you know what candor means old bean.
@@geekylove3603 -- projection.
@@geekylove3603 Does it not mean willingness to speak openly and honestly? You don't think he speaks candidly, especially in the context of today's 'cancel culture' environment?
@TXLionHeart
No I don't. I believe he has partisan, narrow minded views on nearly of subjects.
@@jalemairliha
That's a silly thing to say. Ironically.
Elon didnt threaten to sue advertisers for not advertising. He sued Media Matters - not an advertiser - for libel. Get your facts straight.
Brilliant opening by Harris and Brilliant interview between Senor and Murray. Thank you all so much! 💜
❤ love love love Douglas Murray. Such sense. Such truth. Thankyou
19:08 Dan misinterprets what Murray meant by "the price is high". He meant that, as told in Murray's own example, based on the fact of Sinwar's release and then his rise through Hamas and his subsequent planned Oct. 7th attack on the very Jewish people who released him, it is the Israeli's that paid the price for having released him in the first 'exchange' instance.
From a guy with a podcast title, "Why I won't criticise Israel," this should be fair and balanced.
In his 1st 2 minutes, Sam shows his disregard for his listeners intelligence.
Literally under Dawsey, Sam said, "It's a private company, he can do what he likes."
Please debate Norman Finkelstein
Now that would be a one-sided bloodbath if it weren't for Norm's coddling of Islam - as bad as Sam's coddling of Zionism.
i'm 11 minutes in and this doesn't make sense: Sam criticizes Elon for platforming horrible(conspiratorial, racist, antisemetic, etc) people. Sam doesn't think people like that should be platformed on X. Fair enough. But then he says "ALL speech should be allowed on college campuses...they should even allow the devil himself to speak"
Seems a bit of a contradiction. Colleges should allow ANYONE to speak, but X should not?
Sam is an authoritarian that likes to hide it under his intellect
There's a unique dimension to social media but I agree, the line is thin and the double standard here is hard to ignore.
He platforms Douglas Murray who is basically an Israel war machine propagandist dressed up in his YMCA war reporting outfit.
In a college, there's an educated audience with higher than average capacity to challenge presented ideas.
Average Xitter user is a barely literate gooner.
Murray describes the feelings in Israel accurately. I too was a leftist, voted for the Israeli Labor, and believed we can have peace with the Palestinians. I can no longer delude myself that peace is possible. The burden of proof that there’s a peace-seeking nation on the other side of the fence now falls on the shoulders of the Palestinians.
"The absolute Vesuvius of howling sanctimony" (11:01) Nice.
Definitely using that phrase in real life
Love Dan and Douglas. Sam, Elon is not perfect, but he’s the best we’ve got right now in the fight to have conservative voices heard!
Elon’s a knob billionaire
Truly powerful and moving. Thank you for being a bastion of moral principle in a world of increasingly uninteliigle 'moral' arguments
wow the comments are being censored. i had to check into this account to check. it's like on twitter where sam would block everyone that criticises him
Cause he is a very unintelligent individual, the other one is pure dog feces
I really wish they would have more adequately assessed the civilian death toll. Or entertained other alternatives (tactically speaking) to eradicating Hamas without killing so many innocent civilians. I enjoy Douglas’s assessment of current events, but I think he’s taken an overly apologetic position when it comes to the West in general and nation states with a colonial history. We can agree that the “West is best” while still acknowledging that resistance by people like the Palestinians is absolutely inevitable without adequately engaging with them. Conversations like this seem to miss out on the staggering male unemployment and other conditions feeding radicalism in Gaza and other Palestinian communities.
You can expect resistance, sure. But expecting is not the same as justifying, and surely you can be critical of the form the "resistance" takes and respond to it as the violent threat that it is.
You are bang on. And you could go much much further. Douglas is a partisan on this issue who presents himself as a moral authority. To take just one thing he said and tear it to shreds as many many things he said here could be: "if u call Gaza a concentration camp then you are trying to hurt Jews." Two of the most famous people to use that term are Jewish: Chomsky and Finkelstein. While people are obviously free to believe who they will and take whatever side they like, both of those men would wipe the floor with Murray on the history and correct use of terminology of this conflict.
What could they have done differently in your eyes?
@@Fromer23Exactly! Hamas did a apartheid. What did they think was gonna happen😂? When you do apartheid this thing happen! They shouldn't be surprise😂🤣😂. The world has always fought against apartheid terrorists like Mandela! I'm glad he's rotting in prison with the terrorist family of Justin Amash!
@@Fromer23 I don't claim to know. What I do know is killing more than 5 thousand children and women, destroying an entire city, limiting life supplies to a civilian population, and prohibiting impartial press/international organizations from entering is not the right strategy.
I am not good at math. So if someone asks me how they should prepare for a math test, I probably wouldn't know what the perfect strategy is. But I would know that tearing your math book, playing video games all day, and getting drunk on the night of the test is not it.
You can now proceed with calling me antisemitic and a terrorist sympathizer.
You always hit the nail on the head with your words and how you describe so deeply and succinctly what's going on.
Unlike those two deplorable guys whose podcast he felt he had to publish here.
Ok Rabbi
If these people on this podcast represent the majority of Americans, good bye freedom of speech and constitutional rights. Free speech is a principle that should be universal, and not taken away when it makes us uncomfortable or exposes us.
Sam I thought Elon’s outburst was caused by Disney threatening to pull advert if certain demands weren’t met. Elon won’t let the advertisers dictate who can and cannot use the platform.
Interesting. Cant have Alex Jones on Twitter but college’s should allow every kind of speech no matter how terrible. Got it!
that part confused me greatly. i like sam harris, but he does regularly come out with stuff that puzzles me at best and frustrates me at worst
@@jhibbitt1 yeah. I almost forgot about the part where he mentioned “people just want consistency” or something to that effect… lol
*edit* I like Sam as well.
The Brilliant Douglas Murray 👏🏽 ❤ beacon of Hope in a dark world
There’s a palpable contempt Douglas has when talking about American’s understanding of history, (or lack-thereof) that I find REALLLLY entertaining lolol
Yeah except he follows it with the most moronic point imaginable. There's no colonisation in Israel? What else do you call driving people from their homes? By Douglas's logic he could come to Ireland and take a person's home as he has an Irish name. No one thinks this. He's lying to avoid the truth of Israel's position.
You can argue that Israel are justified due to Arab aggression but Israelis themselves bloody call themselves settlers and openly take over territory. Almost all colonisations have some phony legal basis but they are still forms of colonialism.
He also has immense contempt for Gazan children ... but it's not funny, just disgusting.
@@kmg474how so?
The people responsible for gazan children are their government. The party currently ruling is Hamas. Please forward all of your complaints to the Hamas complaint department. @@kmg474
@@kmg474 What about Jewish babies? Do you think he has contempt for them too? Or are they less valuable?
Possessed by ideology much?
Most younger people I know will ostracize anyone who voices even mild support for Israel, saying that this condones genocide and apartheid. You have to pretend you don't know anything about it if you want to maintain friendships/ relationships. You can't voice your opinion or have a discussion about the issue (unless you have the same opinion of "Israel bad"), there is no listening on the other end, just automatic, blind condemnation.
Where do you live?
Hi, older person here. Voicing mild support for an explicitly genocidal and apartheid nation is seen as supporting genocide and apartheid? Crazy. They much be on something, and the problem is clearly not you.
@@ASDeckard I guess the brain rot extents to random online netizens claiming to be "older" as well then.
@@ASDeckard Ironic statement considering Hamas openly wishes for genocide of Jews.
😢
37:53 omg. Murray makes a point so many of us have missed all along, and especially those who, like he says, "think this is was a legitimate or "natural' response to oppression". If you believe that, then you must also believe that all Palestinians or oppressed people anywhere are as sick as those 4,000 Hamas.
Incorrect timestamp.
“He who _is_ faithful in _what is_ least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in _what is_ least is unjust also in much.” - Luke 16:10 [NKJV]
“How about _Shutsuke_ in these small matters? _He who is faithful in little is faithful in much._ - James O. Coplien (in _Clean Code_ )
“Writing clean code is what you must do in order to call yourself a professional. There is no reasonable excuse for doing anything less than your best.” - Robert C. Martin, _Clean Code_
@@KrwiomoczBogurodzicy and he who wastes time should start spending it double checking his homework.
Most people do not resist oppression. But when people are driven to desperation they are much more engage in desperate actions. This, yes, is true all over.
Are all Irish as bad as IRA bombers who killed civilians? Most people don't think so though the IRA had a lot of support at times
I don't really understand your point. Are you seriously saying that people living in an open air prison, the majority of whom have never stepped foot outside the 140sq/mile strip of land due to an internationally recognized illegal occupation....couldn't possibly lead to violence? Or the complete control of the flow of food, water, and electricity being controlled deliberately by your occupying nation? Maybe your one of the thousand's of Palestinians that have tried to peacefully protest at the border only to be met by IDF sniper fire and poisonous gas (Video taped and UN recognized). Imagine being born into this "country" for a moment... Who would you blame for these obvious human rights violations?
@@Boostwerks Thanks for asking. No, I'm only saying that most of them, even if they "felt" extreme anger would not resort to the inhumane violence that Hamas did on the 7th. That type of violence generally means one has lost their own 'soul' and likely does not even ever feel love with their own kin. I can be wrong, here but it does seem one has to give up a lovely piece of themselves in order to be able to do the things they did to other humans or even say, an animal.
Sam, on point as always!!
May absolute unbiased objective Truth and Justice prevail please
I don’t get it… if Douglas Murray could desist from using condescension and what comes across as total contempt for anyone suggesting there might be a more humane way to rout out Hamas, I’d be more inclined to trust him. I mean - others seem to manage to persuade without insulting those with alternative views. Compare with Christopher Hitchens. Categorical for sure - but I sensed an underlying respect , not only for whoever he was contradicting but for dialectic itself. Or maybe he took them out with such elegance that even his opponents left feeling justly humiliated. Lol.
Agreed, issue with Douglas Murray is that he's dismisses others with contemptibly naive arguments like "they dont understand history" - when it is abundantly clear he isn't aware for example that Hamas 1) won an election in 2006 because they lied about being a liberal democratic party and 2) They're not like Nazis, because Hamas is fundamentally islamic jihad, which is more robust than Nazism.
He's a tired old Victorian bombast & painfully myopic on the Israel Palestine history.
idiocy of this degree deserves every bit of DM’s contempt.
This is war. Germany lost hundreds of thousands of more civilians in WW2. Sorry, fuck around and find out.
Hmm… wondering if you spot the irony… that is, sounds like “cancel anyone who questions the authority of the sworn enemy of cancel culture” 😂
Nobody says Ukraine has to be proportionate? They're forbidden from striking *military* targets within Russia with western weapons.
In the current wave of Antisemitism and Anti-Western sentiment Sam Harris is a soothing Voice of Reason
It is not strange how the anti-American left has sided with anti-American Islamic fundamentalism. There's no mystery here at all. They're running quite a propaganda effort, and it seems effective. They have about 33% of the nation in support of those chanting for genocide of Jews.
Thanks Sam, and for making this available online.
Topic for the next episode: Put cameras in the studio? It’s undeniable that your needed knowledge will reach a larger audience. TikTok? The attention economy? Do you want to restrict the audience to a small number? If so, why?
The enduring support Sam gives to Douglas Murray is baffling.
Murray is a reputational landmine
Douglas is an ace polemicist, and a very talented debater. But unlike Sam, the slippage away from facts is rampant in his diatribes. Even in this podcast, I am sympathetic to Murray's general view. A part of me loves the way he shits on bad ideas. All good. But, as with his biggest whopper of late--when he declared that Hamas was clearly worse than the Nazis on the level of moral intent--he just can't stay away from the hyperbole that drowns whatever good points he makes. Plus I'll never get over the xenophobic stuff, the rank bigotry of Murray that he dresses up as insight. @@tobycokes1
@@GregorDotUSTotally agree, very well said. Murray is very entertaining as a debater (and a talented one) but he comes across as a propagandist on this topic to me. 0% nuance on certain issues and zero attempts to hide his disgust for all things remotely Arab.
Douglas and Sam, damn!
This is all going to age so beautifully (terribly) for Sam. I found his work on mindfulness and consciousness so interesting years ago. Idk why he chooses to frolic in the mud with Murray who is objectively crazy.
I am a long term fan and supporter of Sam and I find myself agreeing with him on most topics. However, I don’t find his perspective on the current conflict balanced. Of course it can be totally true that the Hamas attack was an absolutely terrible war crime committed against innocent civilians but at the same time that the Israeli government is committing atrocities. It is a fact that Israeli officials have stated that “maximal destruction is the focus, not precision”, “Palestinians are animals and Gaza will be inhabitable for human beings”, “Gaza will be turned into a parking lot” etc. Civilians have been deprived food, water, electricity and fuel from the beginning and this has resulted in mass starvation. More civilians have been killed in two months than during 20 years of the war in Afghanistan. C. 70% of Gaza city has been damaged or destroyed (compared to eg c. 60% of Dresden during the entire WWII). These are simple mainstream facts for anyone to investigate and they have never been remotely addressed by Sam. I do miss Sam’s usual ability to analyze a complex issue and remain sober in his assessments even when the entire world resorts to black and white thinking. Since Sam is part of the Jewish community, this would be especially powerful coming from him. From my perspective it is obvious that both Hamas (clearly war criminals) and the Israeli leadership must stand accountable for all actions taken and be judged in accordance with international law when this is all over. That is the only way that we will be able to gain clarity into what has been going on behind the walls of intense propaganda that is being generated by both sides. If atrocities are being committed then the people responsible must be held accountable. This should be an obvious rational position to take, yet I’m sure that many in this chat would find that controversial. Why is that? Where did the civilized world go? If not even Sam can bring himself to resist tribalism / identity politics I think we are all lost.. Again, I am not a Hamas supporter (I hate them), I am not a leftist. I do believe that both Israelis and Palestinians deserve their own countries (the position that the entire international community incl. the US have taken for decades). I am a long term fan of Sam but I don’t find his approach intellectually honest on this topic.
Very well said, I agree a 100 %
Blame Hamas for that.
Musk actually had a brilliant proposal on this topic (Lex’ podcast if I remember correctly). Israel should go out of their way to protect and provide humanitarian aid to innocent civilians while engaging with Hamas on the ground. This is the strategy that the US deployed in Afghanistan (they were extremely selective with bombing in civilian areas, never using bombs heavier than 500 pounds - Israel is routinely using 2000 pound bombs in residential areas). The strategic reasoning behind this is to avoid creating new terrorists. This is exactly what’s happening now, just look at rising support for Hamas on the west bank for example and the (tragic) rise in antisemitism globally. For every Hamas terrorist killed, how many new ones are you creating? That is the most important ratio to focus on. If less than 1 you are “winning” against Hamas. If more than 1, Israel is losing strategically against Hamas and will make the region less safe. One should also undermine support for Hamas by providing a political vision for Gazans. Bibi is instead saying that a two state solution will never happen (in opposition with Biden and the entire world at this point). That is a receipt for an ongoing killing on both sides (while likely keeping Bibi in power for the foreseeable future).
You pay very close attention to words but look at the actions -- why would the IDF setup humanitarian zones and facilitate the movement of civilians whom they were attempting to genocide? Your narrative isnt even self consistent.
How is depriving civilians of food and water for more than two months not an atrocity btw? About 10% of needed supplies have been delivered during more than two months. Now starvation and disease is spreading like wildfire. Something like 30% of all children under five were already malnourished in Gaza prior to Oct 7.
Douglas speaks with so much sense, and with such clear examples, it's actually frustrating.
How can people hear these argurments, and still disagree?
What do you think he meant when saying the First Minister of Scotland had infiltrated the political system?
The Hitch would be disgusted by this.
Yes. He described Zionism as "messianic mythological nonsense" and basing an ethno state on it a "bad idea".
@@twntwrs Hitchens was right about those points. Sadly, I think they make little difference to the pragmatic reality of the situation. Israel seems absolutely adamant about continuing to exist *as a Jewish state* , and they have far more military might. So I think Palestinians will have to accept that premise in order to get peace.
Doesn’t mean he was correct. You just want him to be. Perhaps you need to understand why? Do you want to see Islam prevail in the world? Because this is what it comes down to.
@@majorkuntz Do you want to see islam not prevail ? You know that would take a genocide of more than a billion people ? One that would dwarf every butcher in history combined ? WTF dou you want "to see" ?
The title of this video should be how much information can we all omit
Sam, please consider putting the perspectives of more Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims on your podcast. For example, could your get Bassem Youssef? I would love to hear that conversation! And many others. I have no doubt about your great empathy for people in general, but everyone can have blind spots that they are unaware of. Please.
To do what?
Bassem yousof is rabid antisemite and Islamist supporter. Why would Sam speak to this piece of filth?
@@reinforcedpenisstemto spew more moral confusion no doubt
like they do for jews and gays ?
Agree with everything except strawmaning of the proportionality argument - it’s not only applied to Israel. That’s completely untrue. Protecting unnecessary or easily preventable civilian deaths is a moral obligation. And not doing so must be condemned, no matter who does it. Not saying if the IDF is doing enough or not doing enough to not kill civilians but clearly there is an obligation to not kill unnecessarily
They try to minimise civilian deaths given that Hamas constantly uses civilian buildings as command centres which is a war crime btw. Hamas also prevents people from leaving where Israel has previously warned it will attack
@@manofculture584That's an interesting point. What specifically makes the use of civilian buildings during war a war crime?
@@jmc5335They’re not just using abandoned civilian buildings they’re building their command centers under active hospitals.
@@motorhead48067 So the propagandists tell us. Still not an answer to my question though Jimmy
Gaza could have been leveled in under a week if Israel didn't care about civilian lives. Touch grass
love your work Sam!
Thankfully that's not his work. Those are some loathsome genocide apologists. The fact that he approves of them is a low point for him, though.
Why?
Could somebody explain to me what the purpose of this episode was supposed to be?
I tried to listen all the way through but it became increasingly clear that no attempt was going to be made at understanding the other perspective, and at that point I ask genuinely, what’s the purpose? The only one I can see is to polarize.
The last time Sam tried representing a perspective very different from his was Scott Adams. He didn't do it regarding the 2020 election or Covid. Why would you expect it on this topic?
@@JackSchitt-p9t I just discovered Sam so I didn’t know that, I was just hoping that somebody as (ostensibly) intelligent as him would understand how dangerous polarization and a lack of empathy are. And I’m still genuinely curious what the purpose of this podcast was
@@smoovewitit Its purpose was as a piece of propaganda for his tribe. Not to inform, but to score points for his team in the narrative battle.
The point? How about to inform the public of the truth? How is that for a point?
@@therealtulip If they were trying to find the truth, then the other side would be represented. We don't determine the guilt or innocence of a defendant by letting only the prosecution speak.
There's a good bit of hyperbole in Sam's message these days...feels like he ran out of dragons to slay...
100% He can't stand against someone who has empirical evidence to back their beliefs up. No more arguing with priests, rabbis, and fairytales, Sam. Time to try a bigger challenge and face someone who has facts!
@lucay2222 Absolutely. Sam rose to fame during a period when religious debates were very popular in media. He challenged himself by directly seeking those who disagreed with him: religious "intellectuals" like William Criag, Reza Aslan, and Fareed Zakaria. Anyone who dabbles in some atheism can easily dismantle these religious arguments but Sam was especially gifted with his systematic approach and usually came out of these debates looking exceptional. Even his debates with Peterson and Shapiro end up with his opponents using religious ideals which Sam could deconstruct. The problem now is that Sam, intentionally or not, seems to forget that we are at heart, human first- meaning despite religious beliefs, thr vast majority of people simply wants their basic needs met in life and otherwise try to live quite peacefully. On the issue of Palestine, Sam has ignored historical, political, and economic contexts in favour of pushing a religious viewpoint. He has not addressed how decades of suffering could affect a populations development. He has not brought one pro Palestinian voice on his podcast. He steers away from those that actual evidence to support their view instead of philosophy. Keeping in mind, in his book, The Moral Landscape, Sam wrote, " Anyone who wants to understand the world should be open to new facts and new arguments, even on subjects where his or her views are very well established. Similarly, anyone truly interested in morality-in the principles of behavior that allow people to flourish-should be open to new evidence and new arguments that bear upon questions of happiness and suffering." Amnesty International released a 2022 report warning the world of Israeli crimes in Gaza, documented the violent murders, raids, and kidnapping of Palestinians. This is not religion or if it is, he does not blame Judaism for thr violence of Osraelis. This is human nature motivated by power and greed. Sam would debate an actual historian if he cared about finding truth in this. Read how disappointed some of us former fans of Sam are in his podcasts on Israel and Gaza. I am an atheist but not everything is motivated purely by religion and it is important to know which situations are religiously motivated and which are not. We are human before we are converts.
Douglas is turning into one of my favorite people
He is certainly better than Sam Harris.
Haha
Thanks for having Douglas
Hey Sam. I was wondering about your position on the Israeli mode of operation in Gaza. Is it as horrible as they say? Is it propaganda from the far left? Im guessing somewhere in between. Condemning Hamas is easy to me, but who deserves condemnation on the Israeli side? Surely this conflict is more complicated than «muslims hate jews therefore they attack. Israel got attacked therefore they respond»
Somewhat surprisingly that’s pretty much how it turned out to be in the end. There is too much acceptance to what HAMAS wants to do among the Gazan muslims for them to rebel and overthrow their bad leadership, even after several peace offers and land divisions were already proposed in the past decades. Every time the muslim communities neighboring Israel launch attacks against the Jewish minority, they end up worse off than they were before - and then rather than confronting their own mistakes, they grow more angry and bitter still… repeat cycle. The same people who already received Jordania want another state called Palestine, and with all the Jewish people evicted or killed. In significant enough numbers anyway. It’s not a “settlement dispute”. It is a narcissistic injury of the umma - the idea that where Islam has spread, it should never retreat. In this context, Islam meaning the totalitarian and authoritarian regime - not the peaceful habits and traditions of the every day muslim.
"Surely this conflict is more complicated than «muslims hate jews therefore they attack. Israel got attacked therefore they respond»"
Sam has let his viewpoint that Islam is a uniquely evil religion blind him to the geopolitical realities of the conflict. So even though he will, for example, criticize euphemistic "settlements" in the West Bank, whenever such Israeli actions lead to radicalization, he ends up circling back to blaming Islamic doctrine and anti-semitism. I'm not even denying that religious beliefs play a role, but they aren't everything, and the hatred goes in both directions. Simultaneously, he will interpret repeated Israeli expansionism as innocent self-defense.
About a decade ago, Andrew Sullivan wrote an excellent article called "Why Sam Harris Won't Criticize Israel" that lays out these points in more detail. Despite the title sounding like an ad hominem dick-measuring contest, I think Sullivan remains fairly objective in his critique. But feel free to use your own judgement.
Lastly, I'm glad you condemn Hamas, as do I. The far left has really dropped the ball on what should be the easiest acknowledgement of all time.
Yeah it's almost always that simple
@@manofculture584 Well it is and it isn’t. The way groups of people get trapped into these destructive ideologies, how they function individually and within the collective, etc. - it’s not exactly straightforward. If we knew how to free people from cults, someone would have already suggested that instead of this stalemate that seems to exist since the original UN declaration for a Jewish state. If you’ve ever had a relative with a strongly held but very counterproductive viewpoint, you’ll know some people are just beyond help. A recent poll suggests as many as 7 out of 10 Gazans approve of HAMAS action, so it’s going to be a tough sell to get the remaining 3 to pipe up and start protesting, much less for the other 7 to actually change their minds.
@@motinuppi You typed all of this only to not answer his question "who deserves condemnation on the Israeli side?"
Elon didn't threaten to sue advertisers.. he said "tell it to the judge. The judge is the public"
I wondered what the heck Sam was talking about. I don't remember reading anything about Elon threatening to sue Disney. It was clear that Elon was referring to the people as "the judge". Sam is interpreting hearing what he wants to hear.
@@feklar3470 yeah, I knew about that... after Disney and other companies pulled their advertising influenced by the ADL. That's regarding defamation. ADL isn't an advertiser.
The public is a kangaroo court. The public isn't the law.
@@Ilovedoggie313 the collective public has the most power in America, in theory. The public has the power to vote on representatives and change laws.
@@Ilovedoggie313 That 'kangaroo court' elects every single politician & legislator in every single democracy, who then create and pass laws. What's your point here?
Murray is a rock and morally consistent. Sam's the opposite - and factually wrong about Elon. He's an ideologe at heart. Sam talking about hypocrisy is pretty rich.
I hope you, Sam, have at least attempted to have Elon on and interview/debate him instead of just bashing him all the time. I think many would love to hear that. Wasn't what I was expecting in this video =/
Invite Norman Finkelstein.
No he’s crazy
Such a clear mind and beautiful language!
Come on Sam Harris, you can do better than this.
We need you to speak on the current conflict from a broad historical perspective.
Once again Sam intentionally misreads a situation. Elon knows they pulled advertising because he lets "wrong speak" on the platform and won't fall in line with the political desires of a certain side. He knows they are using their "ad dollar revenue" as leverage to get him to fall in line. And he told them FY. He ( and everyone else ) knows X this pressure is political pressure. And Sam here implies it's "defective product" because if Sam said "political pressure" he by his own "principles" may have to side with Elon.
You shouldn't simp for billionaires and repeat those lies
@@venicebeachsportsnetwork6677 Commie jealous mentality that implies if he was broke then his opinions would be more valid.
Wow, Sam actually thinks that not running adds makes his opinions more trustworthy, rather than the unhinged mental faccaulty he demonstrates as a result of Elon spurning his friendship. Dont bother writing a more detailed analysis of his psychosis as his team will take it down. The Triggernometry episode said everything we need to know about Sams moral compass lest we all to soon forget.
Israel is regrettably so far loosing the information war.
Already the second day after the attack, "nobody" was talking about the victims and the dreadful acts by Hamas. According all kind of high brow people, including a lot of well educated young Arabs from our universities, were taking the stance instead that Israel should be held responsible for any deviation in its reactions from international war right, treaties and so on and so forth.
Moreover there appears to be a surprising connection between support for the Hamas/Palestinian cause and all kind of newer emancipatory movements in our society.
While the Arabs who are from here supporting the Hamas/Palestinian cause, have in general not much of a positive attitude towards those emancipatory movements.
How anybody can be surprised a revenge follows on cold blooded murder of hundreds of people is an enigma.
They’re not advertising on X for political reasons. It has nothing to do with hate on X. Twitter was always a dumpster fire full of hate- it’s just more balanced across the political spectrum now. They of course have every right to not advertise for political reasons, but for you to deliberately ignore the politics makes you look terrible.
Thank you Douglas !
Sam Harris calling someone on their lack of self awareness hahah. Heard 😂😂
Thank you Sam and Douglas. Very deep and precise discussion.
I love it when Sam starts cursing.
Douglas Murray is ruthlessly incisive and truthful as always. I have great respect for this man.
Combination of the most amazing debater-journalist pair in one podcast, thank you guys
They're master debaters.
@@twelvecatsinatrenchcoat 🤣🤣🤣
Comedy Gold
Ironically, I hope. What a couple of deplorables!
a lot of bating indeed
Just when I think Sam might be turning a corner, he let's us right back down.
Whatever “corner” you’re standing on, please stay far away from the rest of us.
You mean the sanctimonious denunciation of anyone who voted Alex Jones back on X?
Speaking out against morally bankrupt billionaires then going right back to defending a far right extremist government.
@throwawayent I was talking about his comments and derangement over X. Good luck, homie. Around such men I would not build my home.
It is absolutely baffling how people can follow a clear thinker like Sam Harris and at the same time have sympathy for Trump & Alex Jones. I guess those people don't really understand a word Sam Harris is saying, but somehow understood that Harris has a problem with Islam and therefore liked him.
Harris doesn't offer substance or which Trump policies were worst in his description of Trump. I wish he could be more clear about which specific Trump and GOP policies personally held him back or kept him from success by taking too much of his money, or reducing his freedom, or reducing opportunities for certain ethnicities in the US.
@@troy3456789 well, maybe just start with January 6th. If you don't think that is a HUGE deal then you maybe don't belong in a free and functioning Democracy and are better off in a Banana Republic. The fact that Trump is having 4 major cases in court right now doesn't bother you? Well, it quite rightly bothers Sam Harris and he rightfully often expressed concern over Trump's election denial. A criminal like Trump is supposed to make laws? Again Banana Republic. NO President so far did just come close to what Trump is doing in terms of destroying the West. Trying to steal an election by sending a mob to the capitol, pressuring politicians to make up votes, keeping nuclear secrets in his private toilet and showing them around, believing Putin over his own Intelligence Service... Trump should be locked up as a traitor. There is never been such a disgrace to Freedom and Democracy as Trump and his minions and whoever doubts it has NO morale compass whatsoever.
@@troy3456789huh?! You think "policy" is why people hate trump.😂😂. How about trying to steal an election, how about incoherenyly lying at every opportunity, how about being grotesquely narcissistic?
@@troy3456789 One of the leading symptoms of TDS is that it won't let facts sway itself.
Sam a clear thinker lol. I guarantee you if we brain scanned him his rational regions would switch off whenever discussing Trump and Elon
Sam Harris: Elon let on people that me no likey. Me upset me gonna cry about it 😭
Thank you.
How blind Sam Harris has become.
Not blind - rich. Paid by the Zionist lobby in the US
I always peruse the comment section with morbid curiosity and synicism. 🧐
I guess you preferred the FBI policing twitter/X instead of Elon's approach?
Searingly brilliant. We are missing Murray’s voice at the top of American leadership to the world’s great shame.
It explains the thought process that has drown the minds of our academic instructors.