I notice numerous comments crying over the Israel Gaza war. Meanwhile no tears or calls for ceasefire in Syria civil war which has killed over 300 000 and displaced 14 million. Or any of the other wars taking place.
You’re quite right. This hyper fixation on Israel isn’t motivated by love for the poor poor Arab refugees. It’s real motivation is and always has been the hatred of Jews.
It’s rational to fear all the nations who hold religion as some sort of validation for anything. The U.K. and US over Iraq, Israel over the occupation of land because of its “holy sites” hamas and hezbollah nations for their hatred of non-Muslims (even more so ex-Muslims) Hinduism and their saffron terrorists. The Isreal Palestine conflict to me looks more and more as if religious ideals have overtaken national sovereignty to despicable consequences.
Especially when they do what Hamas recently did, on October 7,, and not a single important Muslim voice, has a problem with it . With Jews and Israelis they at least have a much greater capacity to actually criticise their own side.
Hitchens was an ardent critic of Israel and had been pro-Palestinian his whole life. Ofc, he'd condemn Hamas and Islamic extremism, but would have a much more nuanced and robust conversation on the plight of the Palestinians than Sam ever has, and unfortunately, ever will.
Almost everyone else sounds dumb after you listen to Sam. He is a standard for clear thinking. Of course there are others but he has a unique clarity of thought.
@@strongblackcoffee9573gabor mates take was so superficial and emotional and failed to recognise the issue, he thinks the rise of anti semitism after oct 7, is from “sickness of the soul”? Whatever th Fu** that means, just goes to show how little he knows about islam and how ignorant he is of it, didn’t know who he was, and im so glad to have found out what he’s about so that I don’t waste any more time on that guy.
@@allenalphonse4962 I mean, he's a Holocaust survivor and ex Zionist who has actually been to Gaza. But sure listen to Sam instead, he's the authority...
Is there a more clear voice than Sam Harris in all of this? It still amazes me how people will label him a racist without understanding his point about the dangers of religious fundamentalism. We need a left of center voice that speaks the truth about what groups like Hamas truly stand for.
This guy isn't a clear voice but a voice of deceit and if you cannot see that, well, I feel for you. He CLEARLY has a standing for isreal and the zionist who believe the entire Arabian peninsula belongs to them. You keep following him and he'll lead you to a place you would regret deeply
Justified, no. Explainable, yes. Everyone knows Hamas are monsters. But do you really know so little of the history of the area that you cannot see a single reason why this might happen?
@@theepiphany3560 I know a little history and I understand the rage. The part that disgusts me is the barbaric sadistic actions taken by these monsters against innocent civilians. No valid excuse for it. None!
Hamas didn't exist until 39years of Israeli occupation and killing . we're not saying that Hamas are not barbaric, we're just saying that They're in a defensive position and Israel is in an offensive position. what Sam is doing is hypocrthical and unfaire. he is focusing on the moral equavalence and without adressing the geopolitical picture and not showing any concerne about Palestinian civilian deaths. @@dogsandyoga1743
Dismembering people in front of their families before killing them: I first heard of that happening in the post-WW2 era during the genocide in Rwanda, and have since learned about similar human rights abuses in other places as well. The 1991 coup in Haiti included people being forced to eat parts of their own bodies that had been hacked off. In a culture like the 2020s U.S., where no small number of people feel that their human rights are being violated if their egotism is not “validated” by strangers, it’s easy to forget what human rights abuses actually are about and why it was necessary to write the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Regular, ordinary people do horrendous things when the conditions are favorable and they fear the consequences of not joining in the collective crimes. We don’t want to think about it but we need to. In John Gardner’s Grendel, the savage beast notes of man’s behavior toward man, “It was slightly ominous because of its strangeness-no wolf was so vicious to other wolves- “ and this is the tragic truth against which we all need to push. Calling out false moral equivalences is key to that task, and I appreciate how this podcast does that.
Hi Paul, I find your comment very interesting, because I studied Rwanda and Haiti at the doctoral level. Apologies if I am misunderstanding or missing something, as I go into this lengthy but of course still incomplete (as there is too much to cover) reply: It sounds like these examples from Rwanda and Haiti make you more in agreement with Sam. In contrast, my research on those situations is the primary reason I am very critical of Sam's take on Israel-Palestine: he is essentializing the groups (culturally and religiously) rather than analyzing the historical and political conditions that shape the situation, which is precisely what feeds never-ending cycles of violence. Even Christopher Hitchens, an anti-Zionist anti-theist of Jewish descent, was able to appreciate the plight of the Palestinians while still denouncing Islamic extremism, so I'm not sure why it is so difficult for Harris. As Hitch said, "I'm one of those people of Jewish descent who believes that Zionism would be a mistake even if there were no Palestinians." As for Rwanda, the Hutu genocide of the Tutsis was organized by the French-backed Habyarimana regime. The Hutu Power ideology had been fomented for decades by the Catholic Church. The transition of Hutu and Tutsi from relatively fluid class categories into hardened racial identities was "gifted" by Belgian colonial race science. When the Rwandan Patriotic Front exiles invaded from Uganda to put down the genocide, they took power and became victim-savior figures on the world stage. As the RPF began leading reprisal massacres against Hutus and installing a veritable Tutsi ethnostate, the world powers gave the victims of genocide a free pass. Conveniently, the RPF are also a major player in the brutal extraction of conflict minerals from the ever-destabilized Congo. The major lesson is that a historically victimized group cannot be given a free pass to commit reprisals. The historical record can be used to construct Hutu and Tutsi nationalist projects, so some kind of common identity must be (re)disovered. If there is a religion to blame here, it is Catholicism, but even that would be very reductive, just as the religious thesis is in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Truth and reconciliation committees have been important for de-essentializing these groups and trying to open a path forward. We need to see something similar in Israel-Palestine instead of one-sided polemics against religion (and just to be clear, I am a complete anti-fundamentalist when it comes to religion, all religions, but this is only one factor among many in the situation). As for Haiti, the executions, massacres, and dismemberments in Haiti from 1991 to 1994 were committed by FRAPH, a US-backed paramilitary death squad led by General Raol Cedras and Emmanuel Toto Constant. They massacred thousands of members of Aristide's Fanmi Lavalas Party and now live in exile in the US and Panama. The US refused to extradite Cedras and refuses to open FRAPH's documents from their time as the ruling regime in Haiti. At this time, some former Duvalierist macoutes, the terroristic secret police from the Papa and Baby Doc regimes, were also massacred by peasants as retribution for their many decades of inflicting torture and mutiliation and death on the Haitian peasantry. This is another vastly complex situation with internal and external factors that is irreducible to a simple cultural or religious explanation, but the Western eye frequently just sees Haitian psychopathology just as it frequently only sees Arab backwardness when looking at Palestine. Knowing the geopolitics that shaped these nightmarish and ongoing situations in Rwanda and Haiti makes me logically and morally opposed to the idea that it's simply culture or religion that creates the conflict in Israel-Palestine. When Sam uses his favorite term "moral equivalence," what I hear is an obfuscation of the social, historical, and geopolitical realities at play, which would be the abysmal conditions in the West Bank and Gaza. To appropriate a favorite phrase of Sam's, these conditions are "crazy-making." If we could wave a magic wand to erase Hamas and even Islam itself from West Bank and Gaza, the apartheid would still need to end or else the social pathologies would continue to fester, just under new aesthetics. Apologies again for the length of this reply. I tried to keep it as brief yet complete as possible and likely failed at both. Regards.
I find the swipe at denial of healthcare, and public safety for trans people (thinly dog-whistled as “people who feel their human rights are being violated if their egotism is not “validated” by strangers) as an unconscionably noxious straw man. Being assaulted, thrown out of hospitals, denied even ordinary (much less obviously trans-related health care), raped, murdered, having ordinary work and housing rights denied as a matter of law- simply for who people are born as- is exactly the same dehumanization that leads to atrocities. The very same groups that deny equal legal protection by law, and promote de facto violence against trans people by strangers ARE the same groups that promoted and GOT- jailing, systematic legally protected torture, mutilation and death penalty for lgbtq people, in Uganda. The human rights violations against trans and gay (lgbtq) people in the US and the same people promoting legally sanctioned dehumanization for inborn traits, ARE the same people promoting atrocities on a grand scale elsewhere. Shame on you for using intentional fallacies to promote a political agenda of acceptable rights violations, assault, torture and homicide- against your preferred group to hate, while hypocritically posing as someone who cares about the atrocities committed in the name of the bigoted dehumanization you yourself full-throatedly endorse.
@@bitterroots7317 yes, not to mention plenty of terrorism and terrorist manifestos from the Jewish Lehi/Stern Gang during the founding years of Israel. And one of the founders became PM in 1983.
36:58. Sam, I’m sure you’ve read it, but I invite everyone to read Ordinary Men, about the Nazi killing squads in Eastern Europe. Their mission was also to move from town to town etc, and it is essentially the same process you are describing. The chilling part is they were very ordinary and otherwise “good” people in that society.
We are all otherwise "good" people, except when we deal with the "other". Jeez, I never needed to read books to understand that. I recently saw american media, otherwise a very humanistic media, celebrate ingenious tricks of ukrainian forces to trap and bu*n alive many russian soldiers. Those russian soldiers were obviously the "other" soldiers. So were the civilians in hiroshima and nagasaki. We all, in our own frames of references, do find justifications for doing many things that we otherwise would not agree with.
Sam I’m your biggest fan, but for crying out loud make these discussions live in front of a camera. You’re audience will grow exponentially, especially with channel as mine which try to help by promoting your content.
I’d love to see beautiful, musical visualizers over all these conversations. Maybe with overlayed, repetitive beats like most Twitchers have constantly playing. It’d be so cozy & relaxing 👏
Sam, some of your books have had the most profoundly positive impact on my life. That said, I'm incredibly disappointed in the lack of transparency in this conversation. The tragic events in Isreal on the 7th and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza that has unfolded since stem from a long history of occupation that violates international humanitarian law. You are able to speak with such clarity when critiquing religious extremism, yet appear to either not recognize, or ignore it when its right in front of you. You talk at length about how the dehumanization of our fellow human beings creates more suffering, yet do not appear to include Palestinians in that definition. Human shields or not the civilian death toll is in the tens of thousands already. Roughly four thousand are children. This is not justifiable or proportionate even under the circumstances. Every 1/3 buildings in Gaza have been flattened in 4 weeks. Are we really to believe that every one of those buildings was being used by Hamas? In a small strip of land with of dense population of 2.2 Million? Given the casualties, The burden of proof is on Isreal to prove these are legitimate targets under international law. Furthermore the use of White Phosphorous is also incredibly inhumane and against international law. Many Palestinian journalists reporting on the ground have themselves been targeted by air strikes. This 4 week period has seen more journalist deaths then any other conflict for the last 30 years, with high UN staff and emergency aid transits all killed in Isreal's indiscriminate bombing campaign. Surely that proves this is not a targeted response that adheres to international law and protects civilians. 20:00 - Nobody on ivy league college campuses are protesting in favour of massacre. These protests have been almost entirely peaceful with few arrests. Many of these protests/marches/demonstrations have been attended by and even organised by Jewish communities who oppose the indiscriminate bombing of the densely populated Gaza strip. None of this is to minimize or downplay the suffering caused on Oct the 7th, but war crimes committed then do not justify war crimes being committed by hamas or the IDF now. As someone who has written books on morality which I have found incredibly helpful; I find it disappointment to see your total lack of transparency when considering the crucial context at play here.
Israeli society is unfortunately not a "heavily armed society"..there are strict restriction on who can and cant cary a gun..90% of the ppl cant.. it seems like a change is unfolding
The suffering that was met to those children and female captives are unthinkable. I can't stop thinking about it, and hope I'm wrong about the captives.
Unfortunately Islamic culture without western influence around them doesn't value women by design so I hate to tell you its probably worse than you think. You can tell a lot about a culture by understanding who they idolize, if that person is a person that would be in jail for both war crimes and raping children? probably not the best unfortunately.
Hitchens’ pointed out many times how religion, any religion, has severely retarded the advancement of civilization, everywhere, every time. You cannot think rationally while believing the irrational. Religions are not progressive by definition. The are indeed the man-forged manacles of the mind.
Depends where you live. It doesn't concern me in the Nordics much. Failed integration of immigrants and refugees is a much more pressing issue among a dozen others.
@@hartyewh1 The failed integration is almost exclusively due to islam culture and background. All others immigration waves did integrate correctly with time, the one who doesn't and even has a long-term impact on the quality of life and security of the host country is the muslims one.
@@elsenm3965 With time as in the next generation is happening with the Syrian refugees as well. In my work I've met several and Islam has nothing to do with it and many are rather secular or culturally islamic instead of religously. They just have very limited support to get into employment, learn the language etc since most of those services were and are too limited for such a sudden jump in the amount of people needing them.
That's been my beef with Sam for years is that he doesn't seem to enjoy going on video, despite it being much easier to follow. For this reason, I often watch other channels who bring Sam on.
Hi Sam, I am an Israeli from Netivot near Gaza. Sadly I feel like your guest gave a lot of distorted views regarding the issue. I would love to talk to you about it as I feel your guest was only fed information from a very specific faction of Israeli society.
Very poor bias shown by Harris, who is typically one of my favorites. At 11:50 Sam asks his guest if Netanyahu is *covertly* encouraging Israelis to settle and encroach on Palestinian land, then his guest basically says Netanyahu has explicitly encouraged it (because remember God promised them all of this land). How does Sam respond? Sam: …moving on to the next question. The fact is, people are not angry at Israelis or Jewish people, it’s their government that allows this and it’s their government that is doing the relentless bombing on Hamas AND innocent Palestinians. Stop painting this hero/villain dichotomy that doesn’t actually exist. If someone just moved into your living room, then invited their family to set up in your kitchen, then told you that your house is actually their house because God told them what would you do? What if the police came and said “actually you have to allow them to take over your house and you need to find another home” what then? What about if you do find a different home and they start all over again?
Yes, as an Irish person I think back to 1641 and know I would have been at the forefront. Supporting illegal settlements is a red line Israel never should have crossed. It takes away whatever arguable moral high ground they could claim
Nobody is “moving into anyone’s living room”, it’s empty disputed land that Israel is (likely illegally) building settlements on Sorry I had to correct the record from the misinformation you’re spreading there antisemite
I can't believe I had to scroll down this far to see this. Extremely disappointed in Sam. Been a massive fan for decades. Still am with regard to all things neuroscience. But he evidently can't help himself when it comes to Israel. Extreme bias on his part. He's so blinded.
I agree. Sam Harris has extreme blinders when it comes to muslims suffering. Very disappointing. This coming from a person that has the Waking up app on their phone for the last 5 years.
Sam has blinders on for sure with this subject - very disappointed in him for not supporting Palestinian freedom and be able to distinguish between what Hamas did and what Israel is doing to innocent civilians. I’m done listening to him!
If you took religion out of Islam and judged it just based on a social construct of how to run a society, it would be judged to be one of the most depraved organizational ideas in the history of humanity. But people feel they can apologize for Islam because it has something to do with worshipping the divine.
You can't take religion out of islam. That is like saying "take life out of humanity" or "take food out of spaghetti." It is inherently part OF islam, ffs. Islam's whole being is a religious reality. The very reason that people think it has meaning/authority is because they believe it is what their god wants. And that is the very problem. With anything else, the substance and reasonableness of beliefs are scrutinized. With religion, it is given a free pass from such analysis, both by the believers, and by most people outside of it, via the "Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs" doctrine. They get to HAVE the beliefs. They do NOT get to have them without them being criticized. Far too many people lack the slightest courage, to attack any wrongful religious beliefs, and that is because they know it opens the door to their own beliefs being addressed, and they know their beliefs are also ridiculous and often dangerous.
Sam is finally back talking about one of my favourite topics, and it's a topic that Sam excels at. It's unfortunate that a topic this important and timely is behind a paywall.
For the 1st time today i heard him say at the beginning if you cannot afford a subscription then send an email and you will be given one. I have pondered the value of having access to the rest of his talks quite a number of times over the last year. But as i have an unrecoverable injury (that limits my activities and income) i couldn't commit to the 8 pound a month subscription. So i will send this email i think, as i am a genuine case and would sincerely appreciate his full content. Maybe this is an option for others if they are aware of it.
The difference is Isis recruitment is different, Hamas is the sons of Palestinian parents, they live in the same community. They grew up in Palestinian schools with the indoctrination of hated towards the Jews. Isis were formed in a different way and came from all over the world. The looting was much worse than kids bikes, they had all their jewellery stolen, phones, wallets ect.
That's odd... I've heard at least a dozen Jewish intellectuals who know as much, or more, about this issue than anyone else, and I haven't heard a single one "praise" Hamas, or say anything good about them at all. Where are these people? Who are they?
@@memoryhero That was sure worth pointing out. Did you have anything resembling an actual argument of substance or just posturing? I'll fix the typo so that you can sleep tonight. iff u kan reed thiz u shud no dat poenting ouut tipos iz lemp dik week, moooron.
@@Alnivol666 False. Every single one has condemned the action. I think it may be more of indoctrination preventing some from hearing. It's quite common.
yeah the whole scene of oct 7 is like a horror movie. You need to be a certain type of person to kill a stranger that didnt do anything to you like that. its pure horror tbh.
My imagination is too damn good to listen to that. its pure horror. omg... bombing people is one, but this... picking up whatever they find to decapitate someone... thats horror. thats like some SAW level of grotesque ..
Like you make it sound as if it was the worst thing that happened in the history of human kind. Go look at what the Nazis or Japan did during WW II. And they weren't weak people who grew up in an open air prison.
I don't trust atheists either. The Soviets were a thing. I'm for a strong constitutional democracy with secular government and public education. There must be a national civics course of study that emphasizes liberal values.
As an atheist it is sad to see these kind of extremist comments - a genocide of palestinians is happening as we speak. Diplomats and govt strategists around the world, along with the UN condemn it as a totally unnecessary and stupid way to respond to terrorism. There are steps that could be taken right now to decrease deaths on both sides
…and here is the crux 34:04, the moral equivalence… if Hamas kills 1400, and Israel kills 1400, their is a moral equivalence, however brutal. But Israel killing two, twenty, a hundred a month, being attacked, and then killing 10,000 isn’t a moral equivalent, it’s genocide!!! I’m not a fan of Islam, Hamas or even the Palestinians for that matter, but what this podcast fails to even acknowledge is that this is a religious war, it’s not about land, resources or even retribution, it’s about Islam hating the Jews, and the Jews dehumanizing Islam. Pretending either side has some higher moral standing is simply propaganda!!!
NO Israel has the moral high ground. Your argument is sophistry a new version of the Dresden defense. Hamas targets civilians and the IDF wages a war with the exact loss of life such a war would produce in an urban setting. This is the sophistry of conflation.
There is a six quintillion pound elephant in the room. Everyone sees it, but almost all are stupefied to point it out. We should rally around the brave public figures who aren’t afraid to poke the elephant.
A foreign nation warping western media, military operations, and political outcomes in its favor as if these countries had no sovereignty at all. Israel is to America what America is to nearly everyone else.
@@MrBelmontcain The solution to the situation needn't consider religion at all. We can leave that for the historians, but a political solution consists of security and prosperity and the nutbags can be pushed aside with, admittedly, some serious effort.
I heard the call they were discussing and I disagree with Graeme’s highly optimistic interpretation of the family’s reaction. They were utterly jubilant. Yes, they wanted the son to come back, but nowhere was there any sense that he’d done something wrong. I can’t believe Wood’s take on that point
I did. Coleman kept repeating elementary level arguments you find on Twitter ''mOrAl eQuiValeNcy'' and the scholar kept digging deeper with facts and history that Coleman has never read in his life. It was embarrassing to watch for anyone who has followed this conflict longer than a month. @@mrpopo8298
Netanyahu as you said, was using IDF to further his political aims by helping right-wing settlers expand and thereby lost sight of protecting other, potentially vulnerable communities. I'm surprised that civilians aren't armed in these outlier settlements.
The settlements were almost exclusively left wing liberals, many who were friends with Palestinians, who then killed and slaughtered them. Israel also doesn’t have a second amendment, at least for now. Regardless, there’s many important questions that need to be answered because the fact that the CIA and Mossad didn’t see them rehearsing this operation for two years seems hard to believe. Regardless, besides it being some of the most sickening evil I’ve ever seen, it’s put me into a state of depression and fear like I’ve never felt before. It’s not just the killing, it was the most sadistic and evil ways they killed innocent people.
The most common criticisms of politics: Corruption: Politics is often seen as being corrupt, with politicians and other powerful figures using their positions for personal gain. This can lead to a lack of trust in government and a sense of disillusionment among citizens. Inefficiency: Government bureaucracies can be slow and inefficient, making it difficult to get things done. This can be frustrating for citizens and businesses alike. Gridlock: Political polarization can often lead to gridlock, where the two major parties are unable to agree on anything, even on important issues. This can prevent the government from functioning effectively. Special interests: Critics argue that politicians are too beholden to special interests, such as lobbyists and wealthy donors. This can lead to policies that benefit the wealthy and powerful at the expense of ordinary citizens. Lack of accountability: Politicians can be difficult to hold accountable for their actions. This can lead to a sense of impunity, where politicians feel like they can do whatever they want without consequences. It is important to note that not everyone agrees with these criticisms of politics. Some people believe that the political system is working as well as it can and that the benefits of democracy outweigh the costs. However, the criticisms listed above are common among many people, and they reflect a growing sense of dissatisfaction with politics in many countries around the world.
As an Israeli, it's clear to me that Wood talked with only one side of the political isle. Talk to Uri Milstein and you'll have a better understanding of what happened cos- the army was diverted to the west bank- is the shallowest explanation possible and questionable if even true- there is ONE division dedicated to Gaza at all times and many more dedicated to the WB as it is a much larger, more intricate scene.
I was skeptical of his comment, too - the idea that defense was an either/or proposition- either defend the border with Gaza OR assist religious settlers in their annexation efforts in the West Bank. I’m pretty sure the IDF is large enough to handle both tasks.
I grew up as an evangelical Christian. I feel like the great danger of their belief system is being overlooked here. They are supporting so much of this trouble.
It has been the same since the crusader. I like listening to 20 year olds now debating the mid east , I only remember blood in the sand in 90'. It has always been this way and will always be that way. What happened to Ukraine?
I mean, why stop with the crusades? What about the muslim conquest of N. Africa, the Middle East and Southern Europe which preceded the crusades? Or the Roman Empire before that? Or the Greek and Persian Empires before that, and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, or the Bronze Age tribal wars before that? Violent conflict is the human norm. liberal ideals of human rights are relatively new.
Yah these 20 something year olds don’t remember growing up when multiple suicide bombings were a daily news story out of Israel. Israel is unfortunately a victim of its own success in that regard
I think it is interesting that Sam brings up MyLai. He does it in the context of the fellow who proudly calls his parents to boast about his actions and then the conversation moves on to the parents reaction etc. Sam questions what that conversation might have been like if, say, a young american soldier had called home and how that conversation might have gone. Well, in a civilised society like the USA maybe the parents might have rebuked their son for partaking in such a massacre - do you think? Actually the whole of the USA had a chance to have a say in what that "ciivilised society" may have done in response to the killing of circa 500 unarmed men, women, children and infant civilians just because William Calley felt like it was a nice day for a massacre. Lieutenant Calley and 25 other soldiers were charged with premeditated murder (but also including attrocities such as gang rapes of women and children as young as 12yo). The result was that Calley was the only person to be found guilty out of 26 soldiers charged. His life sentence was commuted very quickly to 3 years house arrest by none other than the President of the USA. The really good news, though, is that none of the folks charged were jihadists. They were good young americans fighting to save the free world from communism - apparently. Sam also has a familiar vent about Hamas hiding behind helpless civilians to fire their rockets - so blame them for the 4000 child deaths in Gaza and still counting in the period since October 7. I guess then that we can swing back to My Lai and say that the Viet Kong were hiding in tunnels and using helpless villagers as human shields - and then follow the distorted logic that My lai was somehow an inevitable consequence? In my several decades of life on this planet my observation is that it takes very little encouragement for seemingly "normal" civilised humans of any ethnic origin or religious persuasion to revert to unfathomable acts of cruel savagery, and they often dont need a "cause" to justify their behaviour. I dont know if a 2 state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict is any longer possible - but we should all be looking to our leaders to strive for lasting, meaningful peace - and not a scenario where one side just slowly disappears or disintegrates over the passage of time.
Big difference is that the US soldiers DID have to go through the courts and the public DID become aware of exactly what happened and rallied against the war because of it. Palestinians WANTED it to happen and handed out candy afterwards, spitting on the corpses of raped women…and they still support it in huge numbers. The Palestinian public isn’t going to rally against a war their elected military started, because they agree with it and support it. Your analogy is ridiculous
For anyone who needs a summary: Oct 7th bad, so Israel is justified in whatever response. I anxious wait for an interview of a survivor from Gaza speaking of those dead children. How can Sam still say Israel is taking "great pains" to avoid harming innocents?
He can say that for a very simple reason: If Israel actually wanted to harm civilians, there would be 800,000 dead, not 8,000. The answer to your question is actually very easy to understand this once you realize that Israel is capable of complete genocide of Palestinians in a single day. They have the ability to turn all of Gaza into rubble in a single day. They don't do that, (and instead put their own soldiers at risk) for a very simple reason: They are in fact, taking great pains to avoid harming innocents.
@@TheEnergyBlueprint I appreciate you saying word for word what Sam has said. So do you simply mistrust the numbers coming out of the region showing the percentage of victims being women/children? Putin has done far less damage, by comparison.
Israel has dropped the equivalent of nearly 2 Hiroshima Bombs on Gaza....yet only 10k deaths (for the record, the two atomic bombs killed between 175,000-250,000 instantly) There is your proof right there
@@davecunningham579 1) Yes, never trust anything Hamas says 2) Half the population are child. Impossible some won't die. 3) Hamas does everything it can ensure maximum civilian deaths.
14:10 - No isaeli jew says that they "go back" to maroco. They can't, they have no right to live there, even if the thought that their lives will be better there. Some israeli jews can migrate to Europe or even north America. Most of them are "stuck" in israel and will never leave the area "from the river to the sea".
With everything that’s going on, and the clear-as-day historical and political backdrop of where we are, I’m really struggling to understand why you are pushing this moral relativism angle. Is it just opportunistic, and you’re capitalising on the moment to give your previous work some I-told-you-so relevance? Seriously reducing this type of thing to religious intolerance is baffling. And in the current climate just adding to the chorus of support for really dubious stuff. Ps huge fan of yours and all the work you do on waking up. Really scratching my head on this one though.
Currently religion is not even in the top five issues regarding Israel-Palestine. Historically it is important to understand and no one murders babies without a religious impulse, but for the solution we might as well forget about religion. Israel needs security and Palestine needs a future worth having. The religious fundamentalists are indeed a problem, but dealing with them needn't be concerned with religion.
It is concerned with religion. Much of the hatred of Jews and general anti-Israel propaganda is promulgated by religious teachers in mosques and on children's programming. Can you imagine if instead of Disney cartoons, children in the states were brought up watching programs that glorified the killing of America's enemies?
Well said, I’d add to this by saying what is Israel to do when radicals want you eradicated. I would ask this: if Hamas were to surrender, would this stop?
@@ZINGERS-gt6pc They can either answer in kind as they are doing now and it's mostly justified or they can try to bring the conflict to an end by winning over the palestinian majority that cannot be compared to ISIS like Hamas and similar organizations. The history, trauma, age and education puts the palestinian people at a major disadvantage in being a proactive part of the solution while their "leaders" wish for the opposite so Israel needs to find ways to make peace with them directly. Planning for and explaining in detail a safe and prosperous future and how to achieve is a big part of it.
@@commonwunderNo " mother" here makes little sense as it suggests islam is the only source of bad ideas. Mother lode; however, suggests it's a principal vein of bad ideas.
I am one of those too afraid to take advantage of the free subscribership. I feel a lot of shame being poor, and I don't want to take advantage of charity. I love what I can get for free, but when it is offered in lieu of money, it cripples my remaining ego.
Your ego is the only thing standing in your way of the subscription. I got the subscription when I was very poor, too. If you wouldn't judge someone for the dollars in their account, don't judge yourself like that. Let it go. Just get that damn thing! Right now! Go!
Take A Moment Thank you again Sam I have always been a learning guy 1:14 As usual your work is vital Stay Safe Stay Free Peace and love etc No god's required or seen in my foxhole for 40 years. 28yrs in the RAF. church and state have no idea how we, the people feel. The game is over. That's how empires end. 5:47 I will email you for your kind offer to membership. Thanks Sam and your team
Sam, I've always found you to be rational, so you should maintain a rational inquiry. Emotions shouldn't obscure the reality. Let's consider the whole scenario, break it down into separate parts, analyze each one individually, and then draw a conclusion: There are two hostile nations living on each side of the border, one as the occupier, and the other as the occupied declared by International Court of Justice . The occupier is known for its strong military and intelligence power. The occupied nation has been frustrated for decades and is militarily weak. A terror group from the occupied territory, armed with only a handful of guns, crosses the border into the occupier's territory, which has a strong military, and commits atrocities for hours long without facing any resistance. In light of these facts, the conclusion could be that " Omission amounts into action " The occupier's negligence does not justify the killing of thousands of innocent people. Even if such a level of negligence were showed by Israel's own internal law enforcement agencies inside their own state , it could lead to their own people turning against each other through looting and chaos.
Why are one people occupied in the 1st place. Pushing this narrative makes it seem like it is the weak against the strong without showing why the weak are weak and the strong are strong. Israel has thought wars for its existence. Arabs have not. The whole situation is Arab envy.
This is how propaganda works, it takes bits of truth and creats its own myths. If you want to know how occupation look like you can study the actions of Nazi-Germany, Soviet Union or what Russia is doing in Ukraine now. This might help to discern what is occupation and what not.
@@valentinann7823 The main point I want to make is that if a terrorist group, armed with just a few guns, crosses the border of a state known for its formidable military power, enters its territory, commits atrocities for hours without facing any resistance, why shouldn't we conclude that 'omission amounts to action'? It is evident that these atrocities were intentionally allowed to happen. Netanyahu is cunning
34:46 Sam.. know that I appreciate virtually all of your work.. you’ve just described both the Hamas attack, and the Israeli response… both are vile. Now you’re about to continue on about the IDF dropping leaflets etc and that makes the 9000 dead civilians for 15 neutralized targets ok.. or less uncivilized.. Now I’m not a Jew.. but I wonder if just being a Jew fogs the glasses of even one as revered as yourself.. There is so much nuance that you don’t speak about, no Jewish people do when the information is factual and accessible.. Anyways.. the civilians of both Israel and Palestine have my heart..
Remember what happened when Sam tried to debate Noam Chomsky? Nothing much has changed. He still thinks that Israel has nothing but good intentions, and collateral damage is just an unfortunate consequence of any war blah blah blah.
One thing I don't see in the comments is an acknowledgement that Israel has given evacuation notices before attacks that appear to not be heeded? When this started, on October 7th, I heard or read that Hamas was provoking Israel into retaliation, and then they would keep their citizens in place so that when Israel attacked, there would be many innocent civilians killed. This would create sympathy for their cause and anger at Israel. That seems to be unfolding.
God, this is the only guy that can describe the atrocities and horrific imagery, and also use the most ambiguous language. Fcking have some balls and say it how it is, unacceptable
I think he is a little desensitized covering ISIS and Jihad all these years. This sort of violence is kind of familiar to him. But he said the videos were horrific in that these people were just living every day life and suddenly murdered were more disturbing than the staged highly planned video from ISIS.
@@alQarafiIt may as well be demonic because jihadists do not 1. Operate by reason 2. Have empathy 3. Understand even their own actions 4. Care about humanity. All they care about, literally, is slavery slavery and murder
Muslim community have a BIG problem with these fanatic islamists..this ideology have gone deep in some govs. etc..this is a major issue for the muslim world and rest of us pf course..but WE CANT do much..this is a problem that muslim community have to deal with so to speak..we can help them to fight ths but its realy them who must educate and what ever,to push this ideology back..thats what i belive
Ultimately it's has been a masks off for a lot of people I used to admire, no wonder the IDW dissolved almost everyone who was in that club has now shown his true colors.
it's amazing. I still consider myself an anti-woke, anti identity politics, free speech lefty. but i will admit that many of the woke progressive types who I despise were correct about the politics of the new atheists and the IDW.
The settler issue is a red herring. The IDF was in the West Bank because of a dramatic increase of terrorist activity, particularly in Jenin. This activity was probably coordinated with Hamas, and the settler talking point is a strategic psyop.
it seems the majority of new settlers who claim the Palestinian land as their own in the West Bank are mostly from either Russian or Ukrainian backgrounds. They're expressing a level of entitlement not afforded them in their home countries - and brining some negative behaviours from their former home culture with them as well. These "new" immigrants appeared in large numbers, are more "right-wing" than their European or "First Exodus" predecessors, and appear to be helping prop-up Netanyahu. After the Abraham Accords (having left out Palestinians) ... the Palestinians had some sympathy from the outside world UNTIL October 7 thanks to Hamas. Nothing excuses Hamas for these atrocities but the entire chain of events makes sense.
Everything appears to you without any facts 60% of Israel’s are not white and are from Middle Eastern countries or never left Israel for thousands of years
25:33 This is the 1st time I am hearing over even 12 hrs., let alone, b/w 12 and 24 hours. I thought it was around 6 -8 hours of attack. I heard one Gazan tell police on video interrogation here on YT, that after doing damage at one place they waited like 1.5 hrs. (for something, I don't remember what) and then again later a 2 hr. wait. If it is true that in some areas it went b/w 12 and 24 hours, that interview is making more sense. Why didn't the military rush in there with helicopters~?? Something more than the attack itself is very wrong with this picture if 12-24 hours is correct.
Sam Cain only see the Middle East through the lense of radical Islam. It’s becoming kinda gross. Have liked Sam for years - even on radical Islam in general, but he’s always dropped the ball in thinking that radical Islam is the main issue at hand in places like Israel. There has been a long history of secular freedom fighters/terrorists too. And to think that most Palestinians fight with Hamas because they were convinced by propaganda and Muslim clerics to hate Jews is just so plane wrong and false, it’s almost cruel that someone who does so much thinking doesn’t get that. If they hadn’t been pushed off their land, kept in a refugee pin, land continuously further stolen by terrorist settlers - Hamas would have slim pickings among recruits and most likely would never have been elected. This is the one issue that saddens me to hear Sam talk on. This is NOT about Islam, obviously it’s a factor, but if there was a stronger secular resistance that was more promising I think most people would join that. To be honest- Can someone tell me if Sam or his guest here say anything at all critical of Israel here? I’ve listened to everything Sam has had to say on this topic, but I haven’t listened to this yet. And I know how he thinks and I don’t think I can bare to listen to it right now - too raw. I have Israeli friends and have no hate for Israelis or Jews, but the world is idly watching a slaughter of a civilian population. If you buy that these are strategic bombings you just aren’t paying attention. Sam has said before - that if Israel wanted to commit genocide they would have. That is so obviously shallow reasoning. A) They have always and still talk about their real hopes of ridding both the WB and Gaza of Palestinians - by driving them out. B) They haven’t done so because if they fear becoming a pariah state. C)They are coming closer than ever to doing so right in front of our eyes right now.
Israel wants to survive. They want peace with their neighbors, including Palestinians. That is difficult to do when your neighbors want you dead, and have since your nation was recognized by the international community.
@@michaeljames8410 Sam Harris has been obnoxiously holding onto the same stupid views forever. As if listening to one more podcast is going to change anything. He’s a soft spoken bigot who thinks he’s an expert in everything yet doesn’t even know the difference between geopolitics and religion. And the experts he brings on are mostly people who merely confirm Sam’s views.
@SGN30 Not really. Sam is gone to me actually. And defend him from what? That he does not talk about what this other guy wants? Sure. Like I even need to.
Another difference between ISIS and Hamas is its international recruitment. While Hamas is exclusively Palestinian by definition, ISIS welcomes believers from all nationalities - to be indoctrinated and also to a large extent "Arabized" in the sense of the common language, use of Sharia and cultural traits inherent in the real or imagined habits of the prophet and his followers. A useful way of looking at it is that Hamas is like a particularly nasty unit of the Wehrmacht, composed of mostly vehemently patriotic volunteers sprinkled with conscripts; while ISIS is more like the Waffen SS. The SS was limited in how many Germans it could incorporate (thanks to an agreement Hitler made with the Army early on), so it recruited from anywhere and everywhere; and it's multi-national members were ideologically pure thanks to its intense indoctrination. SS members were "Germanized" in a similar way ISIS members are "Arabized" (common battle language, food, dress, etc.) In sum, the SS considered itself the purest of NAZI's, while ISIS considers itself the purest of Muslims. The ideologies are Nazism and Islam, while the cultural inculcation is German and Arab, respectively.
Nobody actually thinks ISIS = HAMAS, and trying to pretend that's what is meant by that statement is dishonest or dumb. The comparison is made because the level of savagery and fundamental unwillingness to compromise, as well as being an Islamic Fundamentalist organization, makes them akin to ISIS
@@Agtsmirnoff Where is the proof of the savagery? I checked out every video I could and it looked like warfare and fire fights to me. With the exception of tossing a grenade into an air raid shelter but IDF could have been hiding in there. Human shields...so I can't judge.
this is one of the craziest comments i have ever seen. hamas are bad guys yes, but nothing like the n-zis, and the IDF are actually closer than they are.
@@emilianosintarias7337 Calling the IDF Nazis and Hamas "merely bad guys"....well, we all know what kind of person you. Nothing more needs to be said. You're an anti-Semite.
Lets face it, the more we peasants try to hold our nation together, with some pride and patriotism, with some feeling of identity as to who we are, and where we come from, what was fought for by our fathers and grandfathers, the more we try to feel pride, the more our cowardly leaders give our nation away to others who have no feeling for Great Britain, who don't give a flying frog for it! Who in fact hate the UK, who would shit on our flag and spit on the graves of our valiant fathers who gave their lives for our freedom. Our once great nation is being run by cowards and traitors who care more for Islamists and Islam than their own hereditary and culture. These traitors will easily bow and bend the knee to others who have no right to what our forefathers fought for in 2 world wars, but I ask for what did they fight? It seems for nothing!!! They are turning in their graves!! (Written by a British citizen in the UK
The Infernal Logic of Sam Harris: More Cultural Essentialism Masquerading as Rationality Graeme: "The approval rate of Hamas is very, very low. Gazans in general do not like Hamas." Sam: "Hmm." Why do points like this not stick out more to Sam? I'm astonished every time I hear him speak on Palestine/Islam/the Middle East, because he is so unwilling to think seriously about the difference between your average Palestinian/Arab and the Islamist radical groups that operate in their regions. He tries to square this circle by saying that low approval for Hamas as a governing body does not rule out approval for 10/7, but the majority of Gazans polled expressed disapproval of Hamas breaking the ceasefire that was in place until 10/7. Sam continues to resort to cultural essentialism instead of a real analysis of causes and effects. This leads him to reach jaw-droppingly moronic conclusions such as the body count not mattering as much as the brutality of the individual killings. How does this calculation work? How many "humane" massacres does it take to equal the brutal and spectacular ones? How is being shredded to pieces by frags and mortars or crushed to death by collapsing buildings not also a brutal and horrific way to die? At what point does collateral damage simply become indiscriminate killing and collective punishment? Surely, there must be a limit. We have hostage negotiators because it is unacceptable to shoot through civilians to get to their captors. Innocent lives being held as hostages or human shields by Hamas are not made any less innocent by the brutality of Hamas--unless you racially/culturally/nationally essentialize them all as "human animals" and "beasts" or "Amalek," which are the genocidal terms uttered by Israeli officials against all Palestinians. Sam loves to use the term "moral equivalence" but it is his moral reasoning capabilities that are equivocal and embarrassing.
@@JohnGlen502 specious comment I've seen hundreds of times over the last 3+ weeks. Hamas won that nearly 20 year old election with a smaller margin than Trump in 2016 and with support from the Netanyahu government. 44% for Hamas, 42% for Fatah, the moderate alternative. 50% of the population in Gaza wasn’t even old enough to vote. Politics in Gaza is fractured in very similar ways to the US and UK, but no one would think that all Americans deserve reprisal for something Trump did because “they voted him in.” And the point here isn't Trump: the same point stands with any US president who wins by 1% point give or take (which is nearly all of them). It is nonsensical to say "they voted" him in so surely the entire US population is behind him, has the same views, and deserves whatever they get for having voted that way. Interesting how such obviously shoddy logic seems feasible when applied to Arabs. The ability to make such sweeping generalizations about Gazans, enough to condemn them to eradication with an “oh well” is sadly reflective of our ignorance of Middle East culture and history and willingness to dehumanize populations we have no connections with or who are geopolitically inconvenient.
I wish I could give you more than one like. I like Sam Harris a lot, but hearing him describe free Palestine protesters as being somehow in favour of the atrocities committed by Hamas and hearing him egging the guest on “but there were some ordinary Palestinians amongst them, right? Right?” reminds me that this is the point where Sam’s objectivism ends and his ideology begins.
@@theepiphany3560 yes, point blank. It's astonishing hearing someone who is really good at modelling rational thinking when discussing other topics be so obviously irrational on this topic. And I suppose it's easily attributed to his New Atheist ideology which tends to focus on Islam while making excuses for Christianity and Judaism because "The West." I have no problem applying my critique of fundamentalism equally to all three of the Abrahamic religions and taking unfolding current events on a case-by-case and historically informed basis rather than always reactively going back to a good guys vs. bad guys narrative.
Because their approval rating was low due to people of Gaza believing they were corrupt and more at governing/proving service, not because Palestinians viewed them as too extreme. Their desire to exterminate Israel is and generally always has been quite popular.
As an Israeli, I can tell you that what Graeme says about Israelis putting the blame on the fact that soldiers were defending the settlers instead of along the Gaza border is wrong. That is only a left point of view, which has taken a big hit. In fact, many Israelis realize now that without the settlers, the same thing could have happened much closer to Tel-Aviv. The settlers and the IDF who protect them provide a much safer environment to the residents in the center of Israel. We just grew complacent and got used to Palestinian protests along the border and decided to let them be. Also, putting all the blame on Netanyahu is something that is being pushed by the left all the time. Most people realize it's a failure of the intelligence and the IDF generals. The Prime Minister obviously takes some blame too, but not nearly as much. These accusations are almost like a defense mechanism for the left who just realized their world view collapsed and that they were unjustifiably vilifying the right all these years, explaining that only if we made more concessions we could live peacefully side by side. It is important to note that the villages that were attacked were home to many of the far-left leaning people who strived for peace. A horrifying reality check took place when in the house of one of the victims, her bloOdied body was found on the floor, and on her fridge there was a sign saying "peace now", a name of an extreme-left organization that pushed for peace with great concessions and blamed Israel for hindering the peace process.
So without colonizing and oppressing people in the West Bank, Israel would be in more danger ? … So the apartheid practiced by Israel is not fuel for the hate and a big recruiting argument for Hamas So how does supporting criminal acts of a criminal state differ from supporting terrorist acts of a terrorist organization
@@hamzajdn Yeah, again with the "both sides". That's practically having no opinion and saying nothing. Until people realize that not all cultures are equal, nothing will change.
Did Sam ever talk about Netenyahu invoking the Bible and the story of the Amalekites to justify their war? I would love to know his opinion as a fellow atheist.
No, he ignores those statements and blames everything on Islamic Jihadist. He is very biased against Palestinian people and is quick to support apartheid state.
The most extreme cases from the massacre is taken straight out of muhammed's sunnah. The massacre of khybar, 5:33, and the hadeeth about drinking camel 🐫 urine.
Really Sam? This conversation doesn’t merit removing the paywall as you’ve done with other topics in the past? What if I told you the Hamas terrorists were high on ayahuasca? 🤦🏻♂️
I cant get over the fact that the security problem is likely related to resources having to be focused on expansionism in the West Bank. How long has Israel been talking peace while it settles and expropriates. Hard lessons.
@@ahappyimago Frontline laid the sequence of events out plainly; exposing this as a lie. Both didn't keep their promises. So, the same could be said for Israel, unfortunately.
@@pretzelandmustard The Frontline documentary only hinted that the PLO had been inciting violence the entire period of the negotiations. The Frontline documentary clearly showed that Arafat made up a lie about there being no Jewish Temple to blow up the closest and most important negotiation. Firstly this is the most obvious disrespect of the Jewish religion imaginable. More importantly it shows he was never serious, the entire process was just a successful means to whitewash a terrorist who died a billionaire from all the aid he diverted to himself.
48:29 A few answers to why "Israel just sits with Hezbollah on their Northern Border" might be: b/c Hezbollah have 'extreme' guided missiles and many thousands of them; rockets that can reach Tel Aviv, the Ben Gurion Airport and all the cities and homes in between. It would be a real war. Another reason is b/c they lost to Lebanon in '82 even with American help; Another is that the Arab countries would not permit an Israeli attack against Hezbollah without getting involved themselves against Israel. This is my understanding, thus far.
Disappointed but not surprised about Sam’s view on this. Not unrelated, I truly admire the way Jewish people stick together worldwide, religious or not. Now, I think the most disingenuous think that people like Harris are doing is framing the pushing back on relentless bombing of Palestinian citizens as support for Hamas. This creates a false dichotomy that you are either for Israel (the holy good victims of the world) and Hamas (the entirety of all people in Palestine). This framing is the only way normal people can justify bombing 800 Palestinian babies, mothers, teachers, dancers, etc. to kill a single suspected Hamas member. The attack on Israel was awful and heartbreaking, but that was Hamas that did it, not everyday people living their lives in Palestine. Why do they have to pay for Hamas’ actions. Sam Harris, conflates Muslims with Hamas and Jihad even though 10 year Palestinian kids are at no fault
Most Muslims support Hamas’s goals. Though some disapprove of their methods. They aren’t doing anything that doesn’t line up with the goals outlined in the Quran.
@@infidelheretic923 That is far from true. Muslims have been the predominant victims of Islamic terrorist groups. Organizations like Hamas give muslims a bad name. Just like the IDF does for the Jewish community.
@@infidelheretic923 This thinking is the problem. The vast majority of Palestinians have done absolutely nothing to Jews, but are being killed nonetheless
@@infidelheretic923 So what’s your point? Better to kill them all? And their children? Also, there’s not one religion that doesn’t have something in there that could justify shocking violence. Absolutely Christianity and Judaism do. This is not a uniquely Islamic trait.
I notice numerous comments crying over the Israel Gaza war. Meanwhile no tears or calls for ceasefire in Syria civil war which has killed over 300 000 and displaced 14 million. Or any of the other wars taking place.
Because Israel is essentially a Western state?
Muslims and their supporters doesn't care for Yemen neither.
Very true
You’re quite right.
This hyper fixation on Israel isn’t motivated by love for the poor poor Arab refugees. It’s real motivation is and always has been the hatred of Jews.
yeah its because Palestinians are a tool to hurt Israel. antisemitism is a disease
Its not irrational to fear Islam
Definitely irrational to "fear" 1/5 of the worlds population
That's being sane and informed.
It’s rational to fear all the nations who hold religion as some sort of validation for anything. The U.K. and US over Iraq, Israel over the occupation of land because of its “holy sites” hamas and hezbollah nations for their hatred of non-Muslims (even more so ex-Muslims) Hinduism and their saffron terrorists.
The Isreal Palestine conflict to me looks more and more as if religious ideals have overtaken national sovereignty to despicable consequences.
@@Theactivepsychoswhat can be easily explained by greed and racial tribalism i see no reason to attribute to religious marketing.
Especially when they do what Hamas recently did, on October 7,, and not a single important Muslim voice, has a problem with it . With Jews and Israelis they at least have a much greater capacity to actually criticise their own side.
I wish Christopher Hitchens was alive to give us his wisdom
Hitchens was an ardent critic of Israel and had been pro-Palestinian his whole life. Ofc, he'd condemn Hamas and Islamic extremism, but would have a much more nuanced and robust conversation on the plight of the Palestinians than Sam ever has, and unfortunately, ever will.
@@NavAK_86you're absolutely correct. It's unfortunate.
He is very missed.
To think kids these days get their “intellectual” influences form the likes of Hasan Piker and video streamers…
I go back and watch his debates. He had so much faith in humans. This king themselves into a better future
@@NavAK_86Hitchens detested Islam. The October 7th attacks probably would have made him reconsider the way September 11th did.
Almost everyone else sounds dumb after you listen to Sam. He is a standard for clear thinking. Of course there are others but he has a unique clarity of thought.
His thinking is very foggy on this issue. Quasi-religious even.
Listen to Gabor Mate's take
@@arsphoenix1822an example?
@@strongblackcoffee9573gabor mates take was so superficial and emotional and failed to recognise the issue, he thinks the rise of anti semitism after oct 7, is from “sickness of the soul”? Whatever th Fu** that means, just goes to show how little he knows about islam and how ignorant he is of it, didn’t know who he was, and im so glad to have found out what he’s about so that I don’t waste any more time on that guy.
@@allenalphonse4962 I mean, he's a Holocaust survivor and ex Zionist who has actually been to Gaza. But sure listen to Sam instead, he's the authority...
Is there a more clear voice than Sam Harris in all of this? It still amazes me how people will label him a racist without understanding his point about the dangers of religious fundamentalism. We need a left of center voice that speaks the truth about what groups like Hamas truly stand for.
This guy isn't a clear voice but a voice of deceit and if you cannot see that, well, I feel for you. He CLEARLY has a standing for isreal and the zionist who believe the entire Arabian peninsula belongs to them.
You keep following him and he'll lead you to a place you would regret deeply
I am disgusted by anyone that thinks what these monsters did on October 7 was justified in any way.
Justified, no. Explainable, yes. Everyone knows Hamas are monsters. But do you really know so little of the history of the area that you cannot see a single reason why this might happen?
@@theepiphany3560 I know a little history and I understand the rage. The part that disgusts me is the barbaric sadistic actions taken by these monsters against innocent civilians. No valid excuse for it. None!
@@theepiphany3560 There is a "reason" why everything happens. Whether or not that reason is justified is the question.
Not justified but expected, given the situation.
Hamas didn't exist until 39years of Israeli occupation and killing . we're not saying that Hamas are not barbaric, we're just saying that They're in a defensive position and Israel is in an offensive position. what Sam is doing is hypocrthical and unfaire. he is focusing on the moral equavalence and without adressing the geopolitical picture and not showing any concerne about Palestinian civilian deaths. @@dogsandyoga1743
Dismembering people in front of their families before killing them: I first heard of that happening in the post-WW2 era during the genocide in Rwanda, and have since learned about similar human rights abuses in other places as well. The 1991 coup in Haiti included people being forced to eat parts of their own bodies that had been hacked off.
In a culture like the 2020s U.S., where no small number of people feel that their human rights are being violated if their egotism is not “validated” by strangers, it’s easy to forget what human rights abuses actually are about and why it was necessary to write the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Regular, ordinary people do horrendous things when the conditions are favorable and they fear the consequences of not joining in the collective crimes. We don’t want to think about it but we need to.
In John Gardner’s Grendel, the savage beast notes of man’s behavior toward man, “It was slightly ominous because of its strangeness-no wolf was so vicious to other wolves- “ and this is the tragic truth against which we all need to push. Calling out false moral equivalences is key to that task, and I appreciate how this podcast does that.
Hi Paul, I find your comment very interesting, because I studied Rwanda and Haiti at the doctoral level.
Apologies if I am misunderstanding or missing something, as I go into this lengthy but of course still incomplete (as there is too much to cover) reply:
It sounds like these examples from Rwanda and Haiti make you more in agreement with Sam. In contrast, my research on those situations is the primary reason I am very critical of Sam's take on Israel-Palestine: he is essentializing the groups (culturally and religiously) rather than analyzing the historical and political conditions that shape the situation, which is precisely what feeds never-ending cycles of violence. Even Christopher Hitchens, an anti-Zionist anti-theist of Jewish descent, was able to appreciate the plight of the Palestinians while still denouncing Islamic extremism, so I'm not sure why it is so difficult for Harris. As Hitch said, "I'm one of those people of Jewish descent who believes that Zionism would be a mistake even if there were no Palestinians."
As for Rwanda, the Hutu genocide of the Tutsis was organized by the French-backed Habyarimana regime. The Hutu Power ideology had been fomented for decades by the Catholic Church. The transition of Hutu and Tutsi from relatively fluid class categories into hardened racial identities was "gifted" by Belgian colonial race science.
When the Rwandan Patriotic Front exiles invaded from Uganda to put down the genocide, they took power and became victim-savior figures on the world stage. As the RPF began leading reprisal massacres against Hutus and installing a veritable Tutsi ethnostate, the world powers gave the victims of genocide a free pass. Conveniently, the RPF are also a major player in the brutal extraction of conflict minerals from the ever-destabilized Congo.
The major lesson is that a historically victimized group cannot be given a free pass to commit reprisals. The historical record can be used to construct Hutu and Tutsi nationalist projects, so some kind of common identity must be (re)disovered.
If there is a religion to blame here, it is Catholicism, but even that would be very reductive, just as the religious thesis is in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Truth and reconciliation committees have been important for de-essentializing these groups and trying to open a path forward. We need to see something similar in Israel-Palestine instead of one-sided polemics against religion (and just to be clear, I am a complete anti-fundamentalist when it comes to religion, all religions, but this is only one factor among many in the situation).
As for Haiti, the executions, massacres, and dismemberments in Haiti from 1991 to 1994 were committed by FRAPH, a US-backed paramilitary death squad led by General Raol Cedras and Emmanuel Toto Constant. They massacred thousands of members of Aristide's Fanmi Lavalas Party and now live in exile in the US and Panama. The US refused to extradite Cedras and refuses to open FRAPH's documents from their time as the ruling regime in Haiti.
At this time, some former Duvalierist macoutes, the terroristic secret police from the Papa and Baby Doc regimes, were also massacred by peasants as retribution for their many decades of inflicting torture and mutiliation and death on the Haitian peasantry. This is another vastly complex situation with internal and external factors that is irreducible to a simple cultural or religious explanation, but the Western eye frequently just sees Haitian psychopathology just as it frequently only sees Arab backwardness when looking at Palestine.
Knowing the geopolitics that shaped these nightmarish and ongoing situations in Rwanda and Haiti makes me logically and morally opposed to the idea that it's simply culture or religion that creates the conflict in Israel-Palestine. When Sam uses his favorite term "moral equivalence," what I hear is an obfuscation of the social, historical, and geopolitical realities at play, which would be the abysmal conditions in the West Bank and Gaza. To appropriate a favorite phrase of Sam's, these conditions are "crazy-making." If we could wave a magic wand to erase Hamas and even Islam itself from West Bank and Gaza, the apartheid would still need to end or else the social pathologies would continue to fester, just under new aesthetics.
Apologies again for the length of this reply. I tried to keep it as brief yet complete as possible and likely failed at both. Regards.
You should look up the Nanjing Massacre.
I find the swipe at denial of healthcare, and public safety for trans people (thinly dog-whistled as “people who feel their human rights are being violated if their egotism is not “validated” by strangers) as an unconscionably noxious straw man. Being assaulted, thrown out of hospitals, denied even ordinary (much less obviously trans-related health care), raped, murdered, having ordinary work and housing rights denied as a matter of law- simply for who people are born as- is exactly the same dehumanization that leads to atrocities. The very same groups that deny equal legal protection by law, and promote de facto violence against trans people by strangers ARE the same groups that promoted and GOT- jailing, systematic legally protected torture, mutilation and death penalty for lgbtq people, in Uganda.
The human rights violations against trans and gay (lgbtq) people in the US and the same people promoting legally sanctioned dehumanization for inborn traits, ARE the same people promoting atrocities on a grand scale elsewhere.
Shame on you for using intentional fallacies to promote a political agenda of acceptable rights violations, assault, torture and homicide- against your preferred group to hate, while hypocritically posing as someone who cares about the atrocities committed in the name of the bigoted dehumanization you yourself full-throatedly endorse.
Read the old testament and you will find plenty of these exact acts done in the name of a god, and commanded by as well, and done by Israel.
@@bitterroots7317 yes, not to mention plenty of terrorism and terrorist manifestos from the Jewish Lehi/Stern Gang during the founding years of Israel. And one of the founders became PM in 1983.
Thank you, Sam! And also thanks to Graeme Wood! There are no two people I would rather listen to talking about this issue.
36:58. Sam, I’m sure you’ve read it, but I invite everyone to read Ordinary Men, about the Nazi killing squads in Eastern Europe. Their mission was also to move from town to town etc, and it is essentially the same process you are describing. The chilling part is they were very ordinary and otherwise “good” people in that society.
Even Nazis kissed their wives and kids good night.
They didn’t want to be the person that wasn’t participating, leaving the nasty work for others to complete
We are all otherwise "good" people, except when we deal with the "other". Jeez, I never needed to read books to understand that.
I recently saw american media, otherwise a very humanistic media, celebrate ingenious tricks of ukrainian forces to trap and bu*n alive many russian soldiers.
Those russian soldiers were obviously the "other" soldiers. So were the civilians in hiroshima and nagasaki. We all, in our own frames of references, do find justifications for doing many things that we otherwise would not agree with.
@@saimbhat6243dont invade other homes. Oh you want a peaceful war lol
@@Dan16673 nothing justifies the horrific actions of torture and killing
Sam I’m your biggest fan, but for crying out loud make these discussions live in front of a camera. You’re audience will grow exponentially, especially with channel as mine which try to help by promoting your content.
Indeed. Making the discussions live would grow his podcast, thereby spreading these important ideas and conversations.
If they were in front of a camera, people would tell him to wear a nicer suit. Listen to the conversation.
I’d love to see beautiful, musical visualizers over all these conversations. Maybe with overlayed, repetitive beats like most Twitchers have constantly playing. It’d be so cozy & relaxing 👏
Yes
@@Refurb963 Seeing the person talk makes it more relatable and engaging.
There's a reason why the words "Islam" and "terrorism" are virtually synonymous.
Yep, propaganda.
Sam, some of your books have had the most profoundly positive impact on my life.
That said, I'm incredibly disappointed in the lack of transparency in this conversation. The tragic events in Isreal on the 7th and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza that has unfolded since stem from a long history of occupation that violates international humanitarian law.
You are able to speak with such clarity when critiquing religious extremism, yet appear to either not recognize, or ignore it when its right in front of you. You talk at length about how the dehumanization of our fellow human beings creates more suffering, yet do not appear to include Palestinians in that definition.
Human shields or not the civilian death toll is in the tens of thousands already. Roughly four thousand are children. This is not justifiable or proportionate even under the circumstances. Every 1/3 buildings in Gaza have been flattened in 4 weeks. Are we really to believe that every one of those buildings was being used by Hamas? In a small strip of land with of dense population of 2.2 Million? Given the casualties, The burden of proof is on Isreal to prove these are legitimate targets under international law. Furthermore the use of White Phosphorous is also incredibly inhumane and against international law.
Many Palestinian journalists reporting on the ground have themselves been targeted by air strikes. This 4 week period has seen more journalist deaths then any other conflict for the last 30 years, with high UN staff and emergency aid transits all killed in Isreal's indiscriminate bombing campaign. Surely that proves this is not a targeted response that adheres to international law and protects civilians.
20:00 - Nobody on ivy league college campuses are protesting in favour of massacre. These protests have been almost entirely peaceful with few arrests. Many of these protests/marches/demonstrations have been attended by and even organised by Jewish communities who oppose the indiscriminate bombing of the densely populated Gaza strip.
None of this is to minimize or downplay the suffering caused on Oct the 7th, but war crimes committed then do not justify war crimes being committed by hamas or the IDF now.
As someone who has written books on morality which I have found incredibly helpful; I find it disappointment to see your total lack of transparency when considering the crucial context at play here.
Israeli society is unfortunately not a "heavily armed society"..there are strict restriction on who can and cant cary a gun..90% of the ppl cant.. it seems like a change is unfolding
You people are on crack. Thats your take? Get guns so you can protect ill gotten goods?
Richard Dawkins did a video covering some of this today. I was hoping you would, too. Love your content, Mr. Harris. Keep it coming.
Where can we find that?
I can’t find it
Can you provide a link?
Thank god, at least Dawkins is still in touch with reality.
@@MS-gx1tk lFnfDYHnghg
The suffering that was met to those children and female captives are unthinkable. I can't stop thinking about it, and hope I'm wrong about the captives.
Unfortunately Islamic culture without western influence around them doesn't value women by design so I hate to tell you its probably worse than you think.
You can tell a lot about a culture by understanding who they idolize, if that person is a person that would be in jail for both war crimes and raping children? probably not the best unfortunately.
Hitchens points out that both parties of god have vetoed any intelligent logical progress time after time . Makes it feel impossible to solve .
That was extremely well put.
It's diabolical- but religious dogmas do go extinct - they really do - Sadly, not in our lifetime, however. ☄️
Agreed!!!
Hitchens’ pointed out many times how religion, any religion, has severely retarded the advancement of civilization, everywhere, every time. You cannot think rationally while believing the irrational. Religions are not progressive by definition. The are indeed the man-forged manacles of the mind.
100%
nothing scarier in this world right now than islam
Depends where you live. It doesn't concern me in the Nordics much. Failed integration of immigrants and refugees is a much more pressing issue among a dozen others.
@@hartyewh1And those immigrants, which culture they from? What religion they follow?
@@hartyewh1 The failed integration is almost exclusively due to islam culture and background.
All others immigration waves did integrate correctly with time, the one who doesn't and even has a long-term impact on the quality of life and security of the host country is the muslims one.
@@elsenm3965 With time as in the next generation is happening with the Syrian refugees as well. In my work I've met several and Islam has nothing to do with it and many are rather secular or culturally islamic instead of religously. They just have very limited support to get into employment, learn the language etc since most of those services were and are too limited for such a sudden jump in the amount of people needing them.
Planetary overshoot comes to mind. Which will lead to more tribal warfare.
I don't just enjoy what your doing, I Love it! I would like to see more video with the pod cast though... Peace!
That's been my beef with Sam for years is that he doesn't seem to enjoy going on video, despite it being much easier to follow. For this reason, I often watch other channels who bring Sam on.
🥴🥴🥴
A recent poll before Oct 7th by the Washington Institute had shown a majority of Gazans support Hamas
Hi Sam, I am an Israeli from Netivot near Gaza. Sadly I feel like your guest gave a lot of distorted views regarding the issue. I would love to talk to you about it as I feel your guest was only fed information from a very specific faction of Israeli society.
Very poor bias shown by Harris, who is typically one of my favorites. At 11:50 Sam asks his guest if Netanyahu is *covertly* encouraging Israelis to settle and encroach on Palestinian land, then his guest basically says Netanyahu has explicitly encouraged it (because remember God promised them all of this land). How does Sam respond? Sam: …moving on to the next question. The fact is, people are not angry at Israelis or Jewish people, it’s their government that allows this and it’s their government that is doing the relentless bombing on Hamas AND innocent Palestinians. Stop painting this hero/villain dichotomy that doesn’t actually exist. If someone just moved into your living room, then invited their family to set up in your kitchen, then told you that your house is actually their house because God told them what would you do? What if the police came and said “actually you have to allow them to take over your house and you need to find another home” what then? What about if you do find a different home and they start all over again?
Yes, as an Irish person I think back to 1641 and know I would have been at the forefront. Supporting illegal settlements is a red line Israel never should have crossed. It takes away whatever arguable moral high ground they could claim
Nobody is “moving into anyone’s living room”, it’s empty disputed land that Israel is (likely illegally) building settlements on
Sorry I had to correct the record from the misinformation you’re spreading there antisemite
I can't believe I had to scroll down this far to see this. Extremely disappointed in Sam. Been a massive fan for decades. Still am with regard to all things neuroscience. But he evidently can't help himself when it comes to Israel. Extreme bias on his part. He's so blinded.
I agree. Sam Harris has extreme blinders when it comes to muslims suffering. Very disappointing. This coming from a person that has the Waking up app on their phone for the last 5 years.
Sam has blinders on for sure with this subject - very disappointed in him for not supporting Palestinian freedom and be able to distinguish between what Hamas did and what Israel is doing to innocent civilians. I’m done listening to him!
Thank you for sharing the full podcast.
@sg23148 I know.
If you took religion out of Islam and judged it just based on a social construct of how to run a society, it would be judged to be one of the most depraved organizational ideas in the history of humanity. But people feel they can apologize for Islam because it has something to do with worshipping the divine.
You can't take religion out of islam. That is like saying "take life out of humanity" or "take food out of spaghetti." It is inherently part OF islam, ffs. Islam's whole being is a religious reality. The very reason that people think it has meaning/authority is because they believe it is what their god wants. And that is the very problem. With anything else, the substance and reasonableness of beliefs are scrutinized. With religion, it is given a free pass from such analysis, both by the believers, and by most people outside of it, via the "Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs" doctrine. They get to HAVE the beliefs. They do NOT get to have them without them being criticized. Far too many people lack the slightest courage, to attack any wrongful religious beliefs, and that is because they know it opens the door to their own beliefs being addressed, and they know their beliefs are also ridiculous and often dangerous.
@@slyjokerg yes you can.
@@chavruta2000 You are either incapable of understanding the nature of it, or you are being utterly intellectually dishonest.
@@slyjokerg or too busy to explain it to you.
@@chavruta2000 That is a rather convenient and unsurprising cop out. LOL
Sam is finally back talking about one of my favourite topics, and it's a topic that Sam excels at. It's unfortunate that a topic this important and timely is behind a paywall.
For the 1st time today i heard him say at the beginning if you cannot afford a subscription then send an email and you will be given one. I have pondered the value of having access to the rest of his talks quite a number of times over the last year. But as i have an unrecoverable injury (that limits my activities and income) i couldn't commit to the 8 pound a month subscription. So i will send this email i think, as i am a genuine case and would sincerely appreciate his full content. Maybe this is an option for others if they are aware of it.
You are wasting your time friend if you aren't even listening
@@Macfromwaleswhat are you talking about?
Read his correspondence with chomsky
If you can't afford it Sam offers you free subscription. Stop whining
The difference is Isis recruitment is different, Hamas is the sons of Palestinian parents, they live in the same community. They grew up in Palestinian schools with the indoctrination of hated towards the Jews. Isis were formed in a different way and came from all over the world. The looting was much worse than kids bikes, they had all their jewellery stolen, phones, wallets ect.
That's odd... I've heard at least a dozen Jewish intellectuals who know as much, or more, about this issue than anyone else, and I haven't heard a single one "praise" Hamas, or say anything good about them at all. Where are these people? Who are they?
They don't have to praise them. Just no say anything about them. It is in the framing
they are likely off the radar of those who use "whom" wrongly... ffs.
@@memoryhero That was sure worth pointing out. Did you have anything resembling an actual argument of substance or just posturing? I'll fix the typo so that you can sleep tonight. iff u kan reed thiz u shud no dat poenting ouut tipos iz lemp dik week, moooron.
@@Alnivol666 False. Every single one has condemned the action. I think it may be more of indoctrination preventing some from hearing. It's quite common.
@@kropotkinbeard1 sweet!
Jews will always have a home and friend in India, more than any other country in the world can ever offer.
It's not only the Kibbutz that were targeted but also cities like Ofakim and Sderot which are non "agricultural cooperatives"
yeah the whole scene of oct 7 is like a horror movie. You need to be a certain type of person to kill a stranger that didnt do anything to you like that. its pure horror tbh.
My imagination is too damn good to listen to that. its pure horror. omg... bombing people is one, but this... picking up whatever they find to decapitate someone... thats horror. thats like some SAW level of grotesque ..
Like you make it sound as if it was the worst thing that happened in the history of human kind. Go look at what the Nazis or Japan did during WW II. And they weren't weak people who grew up in an open air prison.
Not like that hasn't ben happening to Palestinians for a 75 yeRs
@@xyzmediaandentertainment8313L
@@xyzmediaandentertainment8313
You’re clearly mentally challenged.
There is no good solution aside from education and atheism. See you in 10000 years.
I'd argue rationality and healthy skepticism rather than simply "atheism".
I don't trust atheists either. The Soviets were a thing. I'm for a strong constitutional democracy with secular government and public education. There must be a national civics course of study that emphasizes liberal values.
As an atheist it is sad to see these kind of extremist comments - a genocide of palestinians is happening as we speak. Diplomats and govt strategists around the world, along with the UN condemn it as a totally unnecessary and stupid way to respond to terrorism. There are steps that could be taken right now to decrease deaths on both sides
@@dogsandyoga1743yeah. There was a time when Christians were called atheists pejoratively. We need to focus on skepticism and observations of reality.
…and here is the crux 34:04, the moral equivalence… if Hamas kills 1400, and Israel kills 1400, their is a moral equivalence, however brutal. But Israel killing two, twenty, a hundred a month, being attacked, and then killing 10,000 isn’t a moral equivalent, it’s genocide!!!
I’m not a fan of Islam, Hamas or even the Palestinians for that matter, but what this podcast fails to even acknowledge is that this is a religious war, it’s not about land, resources or even retribution, it’s about Islam hating the Jews, and the Jews dehumanizing Islam. Pretending either side has some higher moral standing is simply propaganda!!!
NO Israel has the moral high ground. Your argument is sophistry a new version of the Dresden defense. Hamas targets civilians and the IDF wages a war with the exact loss of life such a war would produce in an urban setting. This is the sophistry of conflation.
There is a six quintillion pound elephant in the room. Everyone sees it, but almost all are stupefied to point it out. We should rally around the brave public figures who aren’t afraid to poke the elephant.
I forgot my glasses. Might pointing out the elephant you mean since I've been told there are several?
A foreign nation warping western media, military operations, and political outcomes in its favor as if these countries had no sovereignty at all.
Israel is to America what America is to nearly everyone else.
@@MrBelmontcain The solution to the situation needn't consider religion at all. We can leave that for the historians, but a political solution consists of security and prosperity and the nutbags can be pushed aside with, admittedly, some serious effort.
@sg23148 The happiest, most sucessful countries on earth are secular
All religions set up an “us or them” dynamic. You are one of us, or you’re not. Instant division.
I heard the call they were discussing and I disagree with Graeme’s highly optimistic interpretation of the family’s reaction. They were utterly jubilant. Yes, they wanted the son to come back, but nowhere was there any sense that he’d done something wrong. I can’t believe Wood’s take on that point
Is that in the second half?
I didn’t hear jubilation in that call. I just heard a family wanting their son to come home safely.
Yeah that was a weird take.
Anyone notice Sam has never talked to/debated a pro-Palestinian scholar on the subject?
Who would you suggest?
What's the point? Their arguments are weak. Go watch what happened when Coleman Hughes did that.
I did. Coleman kept repeating elementary level arguments you find on Twitter ''mOrAl eQuiValeNcy'' and the scholar kept digging deeper with facts and history that Coleman has never read in his life. It was embarrassing to watch for anyone who has followed this conflict longer than a month. @@mrpopo8298
Jewish scholars, Ilan Pappe and Norman Finkelstein are good starting points.@@ED-TwoZeroNine
@@mrpopo8298 Both Coleman Hughes and Sam Harris are historically-illiterate.
Netanyahu as you said, was using IDF to further his political aims by helping right-wing settlers expand and thereby lost sight of protecting other, potentially vulnerable communities. I'm surprised that civilians aren't armed in these outlier settlements.
The settlements were almost exclusively left wing liberals, many who were friends with Palestinians, who then killed and slaughtered them. Israel also doesn’t have a second amendment, at least for now. Regardless, there’s many important questions that need to be answered because the fact that the CIA and Mossad didn’t see them rehearsing this operation for two years seems hard to believe. Regardless, besides it being some of the most sickening evil I’ve ever seen, it’s put me into a state of depression and fear like I’ve never felt before. It’s not just the killing, it was the most sadistic and evil ways they killed innocent people.
Thank you Sam. Everybody needs to hear this. Enough with these naive and often hateful “free palestine” people.
So you are pretending to be naive now?
Outstanding and clear minded synopsis of the true reason behind the misery of Gaza, West Bank, Syria, Yemen, etc. etc. etc.
The most common criticisms of politics:
Corruption: Politics is often seen as being corrupt, with politicians and other powerful figures using their positions for personal gain. This can lead to a lack of trust in government and a sense of disillusionment among citizens.
Inefficiency: Government bureaucracies can be slow and inefficient, making it difficult to get things done. This can be frustrating for citizens and businesses alike.
Gridlock: Political polarization can often lead to gridlock, where the two major parties are unable to agree on anything, even on important issues. This can prevent the government from functioning effectively.
Special interests: Critics argue that politicians are too beholden to special interests, such as lobbyists and wealthy donors. This can lead to policies that benefit the wealthy and powerful at the expense of ordinary citizens.
Lack of accountability: Politicians can be difficult to hold accountable for their actions. This can lead to a sense of impunity, where politicians feel like they can do whatever they want without consequences.
It is important to note that not everyone agrees with these criticisms of politics. Some people believe that the political system is working as well as it can and that the benefits of democracy outweigh the costs. However, the criticisms listed above are common among many people, and they reflect a growing sense of dissatisfaction with politics in many countries around the world.
As an Israeli, it's clear to me that Wood talked with only one side of the political isle. Talk to Uri Milstein and you'll have a better understanding of what happened cos- the army was diverted to the west bank- is the shallowest explanation possible and questionable if even true- there is ONE division dedicated to Gaza at all times and many more dedicated to the WB as it is a much larger, more intricate scene.
I was skeptical of his comment, too - the idea that defense was an either/or proposition- either defend the border with Gaza OR assist religious settlers in their annexation efforts in the West Bank. I’m pretty sure the IDF is large enough to handle both tasks.
I grew up as an evangelical Christian. I feel like the great danger of their belief system is being overlooked here. They are supporting so much of this trouble.
They are religious extremists and bloodthirsty fascists on both sides.
Thank you, Sam!
Thank you, Sam! ❤
Keep up the stellar work, Sam.
I met a stateless Kuwaiti up north in UK - meshare(?) and you helped him, so therefore you helped someone finding peace of mind. That's good.
@36 min
Harris's line:
Jihad functioning as a bug light
for attracting psychopaths..
was spot on & some
funny sheeit..
It has been the same since the crusader. I like listening to 20 year olds now debating the mid east , I only remember blood in the sand in 90'. It has always been this way and will always be that way. What happened to Ukraine?
I mean, why stop with the crusades? What about the muslim conquest of N. Africa, the Middle East and Southern Europe which preceded the crusades? Or the Roman Empire before that? Or the Greek and Persian Empires before that, and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, or the Bronze Age tribal wars before that?
Violent conflict is the human norm. liberal ideals of human rights are relatively new.
Exactly. Just think of Ukrainian Bucha and atrocities committed there by Russians.
Yah these 20 something year olds don’t remember growing up when multiple suicide bombings were a daily news story out of Israel.
Israel is unfortunately a victim of its own success in that regard
I think it is interesting that Sam brings up MyLai. He does it in the context of the fellow who proudly calls his parents to boast about his actions and then the conversation moves on to the parents reaction etc. Sam questions what that conversation might have been like if, say, a young american soldier had called home and how that conversation might have gone. Well, in a civilised society like the USA maybe the parents might have rebuked their son for partaking in such a massacre - do you think? Actually the whole of the USA had a chance to have a say in what that "ciivilised society" may have done in response to the killing of circa 500 unarmed men, women, children and infant civilians just because William Calley felt like it was a nice day for a massacre. Lieutenant Calley and 25 other soldiers were charged with premeditated murder (but also including attrocities such as gang rapes of women and children as young as 12yo). The result was that Calley was the only person to be found guilty out of 26 soldiers charged. His life sentence was commuted very quickly to 3 years house arrest by none other than the President of the USA. The really good news, though, is that none of the folks charged were jihadists. They were good young americans fighting to save the free world from communism - apparently.
Sam also has a familiar vent about Hamas hiding behind helpless civilians to fire their rockets - so blame them for the 4000 child deaths in Gaza and still counting in the period since October 7. I guess then that we can swing back to My Lai and say that the Viet Kong were hiding in tunnels and using helpless villagers as human shields - and then follow the distorted logic that My lai was somehow an inevitable consequence? In my several decades of life on this planet my observation is that it takes very little encouragement for seemingly "normal" civilised humans of any ethnic origin or religious persuasion to revert to unfathomable acts of cruel savagery, and they often dont need a "cause" to justify their behaviour. I dont know if a 2 state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict is any longer possible - but we should all be looking to our leaders to strive for lasting, meaningful peace - and not a scenario where one side just slowly disappears or disintegrates over the passage of time.
Big difference is that the US soldiers DID have to go through the courts and the public DID become aware of exactly what happened and rallied against the war because of it. Palestinians WANTED it to happen and handed out candy afterwards, spitting on the corpses of raped women…and they still support it in huge numbers. The Palestinian public isn’t going to rally against a war their elected military started, because they agree with it and support it. Your analogy is ridiculous
For anyone who needs a summary: Oct 7th bad, so Israel is justified in whatever response.
I anxious wait for an interview of a survivor from Gaza speaking of those dead children.
How can Sam still say Israel is taking "great pains" to avoid harming innocents?
He can say that for a very simple reason: If Israel actually wanted to harm civilians, there would be 800,000 dead, not 8,000.
The answer to your question is actually very easy to understand this once you realize that Israel is capable of complete genocide of Palestinians in a single day.
They have the ability to turn all of Gaza into rubble in a single day.
They don't do that, (and instead put their own soldiers at risk) for a very simple reason: They are in fact, taking great pains to avoid harming innocents.
@@TheEnergyBlueprint I appreciate you saying word for word what Sam has said. So do you simply mistrust the numbers coming out of the region showing the percentage of victims being women/children?
Putin has done far less damage, by comparison.
@@davecunningham579 If TEB were to trust the numbers, & if the numbers are 100% accurate, a yes/no answer to your question fails to refute his point.
Israel has dropped the equivalent of nearly 2 Hiroshima Bombs on Gaza....yet only 10k deaths
(for the record, the two atomic bombs killed between 175,000-250,000 instantly)
There is your proof right there
@@davecunningham579
1) Yes, never trust anything Hamas says
2) Half the population are child. Impossible some won't die.
3) Hamas does everything it can ensure maximum civilian deaths.
14:10 - No isaeli jew says that they "go back" to maroco. They can't, they have no right to live there, even if the thought that their lives will be better there.
Some israeli jews can migrate to Europe or even north America. Most of them are "stuck" in israel and will never leave the area "from the river to the sea".
Sam..it was very well organised and so is the "chaos" of civilians from Gaza entering israel...
How many were they ?
What makes you Say it wasn't spontaneous but prepared ?
With everything that’s going on, and the clear-as-day historical and political backdrop of where we are, I’m really struggling to understand why you are pushing this moral relativism angle. Is it just opportunistic, and you’re capitalising on the moment to give your previous work some I-told-you-so relevance?
Seriously reducing this type of thing to religious intolerance is baffling. And in the current climate just adding to the chorus of support for really dubious stuff.
Ps huge fan of yours and all the work you do on waking up. Really scratching my head on this one though.
Seriously excellent conversation
Currently religion is not even in the top five issues regarding Israel-Palestine. Historically it is important to understand and no one murders babies without a religious impulse, but for the solution we might as well forget about religion. Israel needs security and Palestine needs a future worth having. The religious fundamentalists are indeed a problem, but dealing with them needn't be concerned with religion.
It is concerned with religion. Much of the hatred of Jews and general anti-Israel propaganda is promulgated by religious teachers in mosques and on children's programming. Can you imagine if instead of Disney cartoons, children in the states were brought up watching programs that glorified the killing of America's enemies?
Well said, I’d add to this by saying what is Israel to do when radicals want you eradicated.
I would ask this: if Hamas were to surrender, would this stop?
@@ZINGERS-gt6pc They can either answer in kind as they are doing now and it's mostly justified or they can try to bring the conflict to an end by winning over the palestinian majority that cannot be compared to ISIS like Hamas and similar organizations. The history, trauma, age and education puts the palestinian people at a major disadvantage in being a proactive part of the solution while their "leaders" wish for the opposite so Israel needs to find ways to make peace with them directly. Planning for and explaining in detail a safe and prosperous future and how to achieve is a big part of it.
@ZINGERS-gt6pc so Israel is not eradicating Palestine????
@@fabioq6916nope because they're would have done ages ago, but they settled with borders
Sam, please do a video podcast. That is all.
"Islam is the mother of bad Ideas"
--- Sam Harris
@sg23148 'Motherload' is Americanised gibberish... 'mother' is more relevant and succinct.
@@commonwunder But has a totally different meaning
@Agtsmirnoff 'Motherload' isn't even a word. It's motherlode.
@@commonwunderNo " mother" here makes little sense as it suggests islam is the only source of bad ideas. Mother lode; however, suggests it's a principal vein of bad ideas.
Inspired from the grandmother judaïsme
Brilliant conversation!Thank you Sam!
Podcast starts at 3:35
Actually it starts at 0:52 guys
Don't skip the house keeping and introduction bro wtf
Housekeeping is the best part. Aside from the music lol
I’ve listened to the whole episode and have just come over here to thank Sam for his work, as always.
Thx Sam & guest
I am one of those too afraid to take advantage of the free subscribership. I feel a lot of shame being poor, and I don't want to take advantage of charity. I love what I can get for free, but when it is offered in lieu of money, it cripples my remaining ego.
That's silly, and Sam would tell you to your face not to be ashamed, and encourage you to ask for a subscription. That's why it's there.
I got one, it’s super easy and sam has an employee who gives them out daily to anyone who emails. No reason not to
Your ego is the only thing standing in your way of the subscription. I got the subscription when I was very poor, too. If you wouldn't judge someone for the dollars in their account, don't judge yourself like that. Let it go. Just get that damn thing! Right now! Go!
At 11:30 he says settlers had been taking land in Gaza with the help of the IDF. How is that possible?
He was talking about the West Bank settlements, not Gaza.
Sam Harris you are very WISE
Take A Moment
Thank you again Sam
I have always been a learning guy 1:14
As usual your work is vital
Stay Safe
Stay Free
Peace and love etc No god's required or seen in my foxhole for 40 years.
28yrs in the RAF.
church and state have no idea how we, the people feel.
The game is over. That's how empires end.
5:47
I will email you for your kind offer to membership.
Thanks Sam and your team
Sam, I've always found you to be rational, so you should maintain a rational inquiry. Emotions shouldn't obscure the reality. Let's consider the whole scenario, break it down into separate parts, analyze each one individually, and then draw a conclusion:
There are two hostile nations living on each side of the border, one as the occupier, and the other as the occupied declared by International Court of Justice .
The occupier is known for its strong military and intelligence power.
The occupied nation has been frustrated for decades and is militarily weak.
A terror group from the occupied territory, armed with only a handful of guns, crosses the border into the occupier's territory, which has a strong military, and commits atrocities for hours long without facing any resistance.
In light of these facts, the conclusion could be that " Omission amounts into action "
The occupier's negligence does not justify the killing of thousands of innocent people. Even if such a level of negligence were showed by Israel's own internal law enforcement agencies inside their own state , it could lead to their own people turning against each other through looting and chaos.
Why are one people occupied in the 1st place. Pushing this narrative makes it seem like it is the weak against the strong without showing why the weak are weak and the strong are strong.
Israel has thought wars for its existence.
Arabs have not.
The whole situation is Arab envy.
This is how propaganda works, it takes bits of truth and creats its own myths. If you want to know how occupation look like you can study the actions of Nazi-Germany, Soviet Union or what Russia is doing in Ukraine now. This might help to discern what is occupation and what not.
@@valentinann7823
The main point I want to make is that if a terrorist group, armed with just a few guns, crosses the border of a state known for its formidable military power, enters its territory, commits atrocities for hours without facing any resistance, why shouldn't we conclude that 'omission amounts to action'? It is evident that these atrocities were intentionally allowed to happen. Netanyahu is cunning
International Court of Justice has no authority. They can't declare anything.
Well put.
34:46 Sam.. know that I appreciate virtually all of your work.. you’ve just described both the Hamas attack, and the Israeli response… both are vile. Now you’re about to continue on about the IDF dropping leaflets etc and that makes the 9000 dead civilians for 15 neutralized targets ok.. or less uncivilized.. Now I’m not a Jew.. but I wonder if just being a Jew fogs the glasses of even one as revered as yourself.. There is so much nuance that you don’t speak about, no Jewish people do when the information is factual and accessible..
Anyways.. the civilians of both Israel and Palestine have my heart..
Sam. I would love you to debate norm finkelstein.
Remember what happened when Sam tried to debate Noam Chomsky? Nothing much has changed. He still thinks that Israel has nothing but good intentions, and collateral damage is just an unfortunate consequence of any war blah blah blah.
The quintessential self-hating Jew
Norm: "Here is indisputable evidence illustrating every way you are wrong about Palestine."
Sam: "hmm"
One thing I don't see in the comments is an acknowledgement that Israel has given evacuation notices before attacks that appear to not be heeded? When this started, on October 7th, I heard or read that Hamas was provoking Israel into retaliation, and then they would keep their citizens in place so that when Israel attacked, there would be many innocent civilians killed. This would create sympathy for their cause and anger at Israel. That seems to be unfolding.
The IRA also gave warnings before they carried out a terrorist attack.
This was a great discussion 😊
Welcome back sir
God, this is the only guy that can describe the atrocities and horrific imagery, and also use the most ambiguous language. Fcking have some balls and say it how it is, unacceptable
Replace unacceptable for unforgivable
I think he is a little desensitized covering ISIS and Jihad all these years. This sort of violence is kind of familiar to him. But he said the videos were horrific in that these people were just living every day life and suddenly murdered were more disturbing than the staged highly planned video from ISIS.
@@alQarafiIt may as well be demonic because jihadists do not 1. Operate by reason 2. Have empathy 3. Understand even their own actions 4. Care about humanity. All they care about, literally, is slavery slavery and murder
@@alQarafiand not just slavery but sex slavery. That is what jihad is
Muslim community have a BIG problem with these fanatic islamists..this ideology have gone deep in some govs. etc..this is a major issue for the muslim world and rest of us pf course..but WE CANT do much..this is a problem that muslim community have to deal with so to speak..we can help them to fight ths but its realy them who must educate and what ever,to push this ideology back..thats what i belive
Ultimately it's has been a masks off for a lot of people I used to admire, no wonder the IDW dissolved almost everyone who was in that club has now shown his true colors.
Is it really about those people themselves?
You mad they don't hate Jews like you do? LOL
it's amazing. I still consider myself an anti-woke, anti identity politics, free speech lefty. but i will admit that many of the woke progressive types who I despise were correct about the politics of the new atheists and the IDW.
@@emilianosintarias7337 Nah, you were always woke. Caring about those poor little Muslims, the religion of peace! All that jazz.
@@emilianosintarias7337 Ignore this clown, he literally said Hamas aren't that bad and Israelis are Nazis. Leftist WOKE/Islamist to the core.
The settler issue is a red herring.
The IDF was in the West Bank because of a dramatic increase of terrorist activity, particularly in Jenin.
This activity was probably coordinated with Hamas, and the settler talking point is a strategic psyop.
thank you sam
I stand with Israel 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Wherever they do?
Is there anywhere I can get the full podcast without subscribing? Torrent download or something?
it seems the majority of new settlers who claim the Palestinian land as their own in the West Bank are mostly from either Russian or Ukrainian backgrounds. They're expressing a level of entitlement not afforded them in their home countries - and brining some negative behaviours from their former home culture with them as well. These "new" immigrants appeared in large numbers, are more "right-wing" than their European or "First Exodus" predecessors, and appear to be helping prop-up Netanyahu. After the Abraham Accords (having left out Palestinians) ... the Palestinians had some sympathy from the outside world UNTIL October 7 thanks to Hamas. Nothing excuses Hamas for these atrocities but the entire chain of events makes sense.
Everything appears to you without any facts 60% of Israel’s are not white and are from Middle Eastern countries or never left Israel for thousands of years
25:33 This is the 1st time I am hearing over even 12 hrs., let alone, b/w 12 and 24 hours. I thought it was around 6 -8 hours of attack. I heard one Gazan tell police on video interrogation here on YT, that after doing damage at one place they waited like 1.5 hrs. (for something, I don't remember what) and then again later a 2 hr. wait. If it is true that in some areas it went b/w 12 and 24 hours, that interview is making more sense. Why didn't the military rush in there with helicopters~?? Something more than the attack itself is very wrong with this picture if 12-24 hours is correct.
Sam Cain only see the Middle East through the lense of radical Islam. It’s becoming kinda gross.
Have liked Sam for years - even on radical Islam in general, but he’s always dropped the ball in thinking that radical Islam is the main issue at hand in places like Israel. There has been a long history of secular freedom fighters/terrorists too. And to think that most Palestinians fight with Hamas because they were convinced by propaganda and Muslim clerics to hate Jews is just so plane wrong and false, it’s almost cruel that someone who does so much thinking doesn’t get that.
If they hadn’t been pushed off their land, kept in a refugee pin, land continuously further stolen by terrorist settlers - Hamas would have slim pickings among recruits and most likely would never have been elected.
This is the one issue that saddens me to hear Sam talk on.
This is NOT about Islam, obviously it’s a factor, but if there was a stronger secular resistance that was more promising I think most people would join that.
To be honest- Can someone tell me if Sam or his guest here say anything at all critical of Israel here? I’ve listened to everything Sam has had to say on this topic, but I haven’t listened to this yet. And I know how he thinks and I don’t think I can bare to listen to it right now - too raw.
I have Israeli friends and have no hate for Israelis or Jews, but the world is idly watching a slaughter of a civilian population. If you buy that these are strategic bombings you just aren’t paying attention.
Sam has said before - that if Israel wanted to commit genocide they would have. That is so obviously shallow reasoning. A) They have always and still talk about their real hopes of ridding both the WB and Gaza of Palestinians - by driving them out.
B) They haven’t done so because if they fear becoming a pariah state.
C)They are coming closer than ever to doing so right in front of our eyes right now.
I couldn’t agree more with you. If this isn’t cognitive dissonance on Sam’s part then I don’t know what is.
"I haven't listened to it yet". Clearly.
Spot on
Israel wants to survive. They want peace with their neighbors, including Palestinians. That is difficult to do when your neighbors want you dead, and have since your nation was recognized by the international community.
@@michaeljames8410 Sam Harris has been obnoxiously holding onto the same stupid views forever. As if listening to one more podcast is going to change anything. He’s a soft spoken bigot who thinks he’s an expert in everything yet doesn’t even know the difference between geopolitics and religion. And the experts he brings on are mostly people who merely confirm Sam’s views.
I feel nauseous listening to the description of the attack
Have you noticed Sam hasn’t publicly criticized Netanyahu’s right wing government now using insane messianic bible verses? Hypocrite
Why does it matter to you ? Does it change the reality in any way?
@SGN30 Not really. Sam is gone to me actually. And defend him from what? That he does not talk about what this other guy wants?
Sure. Like I even need to.
@@Alnivol666 no one likes a hypocrite… the audience will decide… the hypocrisy is astonishing
What insane Bible verses did he use?
Thank you Sam❤ Love you bro
Thank you.
Another difference between ISIS and Hamas is its international recruitment. While Hamas is exclusively Palestinian by definition, ISIS welcomes believers from all nationalities - to be indoctrinated and also to a large extent "Arabized" in the sense of the common language, use of Sharia and cultural traits inherent in the real or imagined habits of the prophet and his followers.
A useful way of looking at it is that Hamas is like a particularly nasty unit of the Wehrmacht, composed of mostly vehemently patriotic volunteers sprinkled with conscripts; while ISIS is more like the Waffen SS. The SS was limited in how many Germans it could incorporate (thanks to an agreement Hitler made with the Army early on), so it recruited from anywhere and everywhere; and it's multi-national members were ideologically pure thanks to its intense indoctrination. SS members were "Germanized" in a similar way ISIS members are "Arabized" (common battle language, food, dress, etc.)
In sum, the SS considered itself the purest of NAZI's, while ISIS considers itself the purest of Muslims. The ideologies are Nazism and Islam, while the cultural inculcation is German and Arab, respectively.
Nobody actually thinks ISIS = HAMAS, and trying to pretend that's what is meant by that statement is dishonest or dumb.
The comparison is made because the level of savagery and fundamental unwillingness to compromise, as well as being an Islamic Fundamentalist organization, makes them akin to ISIS
@@Agtsmirnoff Where is the proof of the savagery? I checked out every video I could and it looked like warfare and fire fights to me. With the exception of tossing a grenade into an air raid shelter but IDF could have been hiding in there. Human shields...so I can't judge.
@@iMaDeMoN2012 so you’re an Oct 7th denier? That tells us everything we need to know
this is one of the craziest comments i have ever seen. hamas are bad guys yes, but nothing like the n-zis, and the IDF are actually closer than they are.
@@emilianosintarias7337 Calling the IDF Nazis and Hamas "merely bad guys"....well, we all know what kind of person you. Nothing more needs to be said. You're an anti-Semite.
It's impossible to reason with the side that doesnt want to other side to exist.
Sickening. Another reminder of what we are capable of
No what Islamic extremists are capable of
Lets face it, the more we peasants try to hold our nation together, with some pride and patriotism, with some feeling of identity as to who we are, and where we come from, what was fought for by our fathers and grandfathers, the more we try to feel pride, the more our cowardly leaders give our nation away to others who have no feeling for Great Britain, who don't give a flying frog for it! Who in fact hate the UK, who would shit on our flag and spit on the graves of our valiant fathers who gave their lives for our freedom. Our once great nation is being run by cowards and traitors who care more for Islamists and Islam than their own hereditary and culture. These traitors will easily bow and bend the knee to others who have no right to what our forefathers fought for in 2 world wars, but I ask for what did they fight? It seems for nothing!!! They are turning in their graves!! (Written by a British citizen in the UK
Seems a little off-topic here.
The Infernal Logic of Sam Harris: More Cultural Essentialism Masquerading as Rationality
Graeme: "The approval rate of Hamas is very, very low. Gazans in general do not like Hamas."
Sam: "Hmm."
Why do points like this not stick out more to Sam? I'm astonished every time I hear him speak on Palestine/Islam/the Middle East, because he is so unwilling to think seriously about the difference between your average Palestinian/Arab and the Islamist radical groups that operate in their regions. He tries to square this circle by saying that low approval for Hamas as a governing body does not rule out approval for 10/7, but the majority of Gazans polled expressed disapproval of Hamas breaking the ceasefire that was in place until 10/7.
Sam continues to resort to cultural essentialism instead of a real analysis of causes and effects. This leads him to reach jaw-droppingly moronic conclusions such as the body count not mattering as much as the brutality of the individual killings. How does this calculation work? How many "humane" massacres does it take to equal the brutal and spectacular ones? How is being shredded to pieces by frags and mortars or crushed to death by collapsing buildings not also a brutal and horrific way to die?
At what point does collateral damage simply become indiscriminate killing and collective punishment? Surely, there must be a limit. We have hostage negotiators because it is unacceptable to shoot through civilians to get to their captors. Innocent lives being held as hostages or human shields by Hamas are not made any less innocent by the brutality of Hamas--unless you racially/culturally/nationally essentialize them all as "human animals" and "beasts" or "Amalek," which are the genocidal terms uttered by Israeli officials against all Palestinians.
Sam loves to use the term "moral equivalence" but it is his moral reasoning capabilities that are equivocal and embarrassing.
They voted for Hamas, and knew what they were voting for.
@@JohnGlen502 specious comment I've seen hundreds of times over the last 3+ weeks.
Hamas won that nearly 20 year old election with a smaller margin than Trump in 2016 and with support from the Netanyahu government. 44% for Hamas, 42% for Fatah, the moderate alternative. 50% of the population in Gaza wasn’t even old enough to vote.
Politics in Gaza is fractured in very similar ways to the US and UK, but no one would think that all Americans deserve reprisal for something Trump did because “they voted him in.” And the point here isn't Trump: the same point stands with any US president who wins by 1% point give or take (which is nearly all of them). It is nonsensical to say "they voted" him in so surely the entire US population is behind him, has the same views, and deserves whatever they get for having voted that way. Interesting how such obviously shoddy logic seems feasible when applied to Arabs.
The ability to make such sweeping generalizations about Gazans, enough to condemn them to eradication with an “oh well” is sadly reflective of our ignorance of Middle East culture and history and willingness to dehumanize populations we have no connections with or who are geopolitically inconvenient.
I wish I could give you more than one like. I like Sam Harris a lot, but hearing him describe free Palestine protesters as being somehow in favour of the atrocities committed by Hamas and hearing him egging the guest on “but there were some ordinary Palestinians amongst them, right? Right?” reminds me that this is the point where Sam’s objectivism ends and his ideology begins.
@@theepiphany3560 yes, point blank. It's astonishing hearing someone who is really good at modelling rational thinking when discussing other topics be so obviously irrational on this topic. And I suppose it's easily attributed to his New Atheist ideology which tends to focus on Islam while making excuses for Christianity and Judaism because "The West." I have no problem applying my critique of fundamentalism equally to all three of the Abrahamic religions and taking unfolding current events on a case-by-case and historically informed basis rather than always reactively going back to a good guys vs. bad guys narrative.
Because their approval rating was low due to people of Gaza believing they were corrupt and more at governing/proving service, not because Palestinians viewed them as too extreme. Their desire to exterminate Israel is and generally always has been quite popular.
Welcome back to your best subject, Sam. We’ve missed you 💙
Blokes been here the whole time you trump voting dead shut, from australia
I will seek to find the full podcast
As an Israeli, I can tell you that what Graeme says about Israelis putting the blame on the fact that soldiers were defending the settlers instead of along the Gaza border is wrong. That is only a left point of view, which has taken a big hit.
In fact, many Israelis realize now that without the settlers, the same thing could have happened much closer to Tel-Aviv. The settlers and the IDF who protect them provide a much safer environment to the residents in the center of Israel. We just grew complacent and got used to Palestinian protests along the border and decided to let them be.
Also, putting all the blame on Netanyahu is something that is being pushed by the left all the time. Most people realize it's a failure of the intelligence and the IDF generals. The Prime Minister obviously takes some blame too, but not nearly as much.
These accusations are almost like a defense mechanism for the left who just realized their world view collapsed and that they were unjustifiably vilifying the right all these years, explaining that only if we made more concessions we could live peacefully side by side.
It is important to note that the villages that were attacked were home to many of the far-left leaning people who strived for peace.
A horrifying reality check took place when in the house of one of the victims, her bloOdied body was found on the floor, and on her fridge there was a sign saying "peace now", a name of an extreme-left organization that pushed for peace with great concessions and blamed Israel for hindering the peace process.
So without colonizing and oppressing people in the West Bank, Israel would be in more danger ?
… So the apartheid practiced by Israel is not fuel for the hate and a big recruiting argument for Hamas
So how does supporting criminal acts of a criminal state differ from supporting terrorist acts of a terrorist organization
People like you on both sides is the reason the region will never have peace
@@hamzajdn Yeah, again with the "both sides". That's practically having no opinion and saying nothing.
Until people realize that not all cultures are equal, nothing will change.
Agreed! Its impossible to make peace with someone who wants you dead.
ביביסט מטומטם
Did Sam ever talk about Netenyahu invoking the Bible and the story of the Amalekites to justify their war? I would love to know his opinion as a fellow atheist.
No, he ignores those statements and blames everything on Islamic Jihadist. He is very biased against Palestinian people and is quick to support apartheid state.
The most extreme cases from the massacre is taken straight out of muhammed's sunnah. The massacre of khybar, 5:33, and the hadeeth about drinking camel 🐫 urine.
Really Sam? This conversation doesn’t merit removing the paywall as you’ve done with other topics in the past? What if I told you the Hamas terrorists were high on ayahuasca? 🤦🏻♂️
There should be an early release on patreon but full length at some point here
You used to be able to get a subscription for free if you emailed them, not sure how it is now.
@@OriginalMindTricktoo many people abused it as it's no longer an option. Can't blame him
@@paulfromt.o.7384 Yeah you gotta make money to support yourself.
Nobody owes you free anything
Dead child in Gaza every 6 minutes - NY Times, 11/1/2023
I cant get over the fact that the security problem is likely related to resources having to be focused on expansionism in the West Bank. How long has Israel been talking peace while it settles and expropriates. Hard lessons.
Unfortunately many Israelis learned that the PLO, despite putting on a good show, was never sincerely interested in peace
@@ahappyimago Frontline laid the sequence of events out plainly; exposing this as a lie. Both didn't keep their promises. So, the same could be said for Israel, unfortunately.
@@pretzelandmustard The Frontline documentary only hinted that the PLO had been inciting violence the entire period of the negotiations.
The Frontline documentary clearly showed that Arafat made up a lie about there being no Jewish Temple to blow up the closest and most important negotiation.
Firstly this is the most obvious disrespect of the Jewish religion imaginable.
More importantly it shows he was never serious, the entire process was just a successful means to whitewash a terrorist who died a billionaire from all the aid he diverted to himself.
@@ahappyimagoWhat about the lie of a two state solution that occupation undermines?
@@jmc5335 It’s the lie of an occupation that undermines a two state solution
48:29 A few answers to why "Israel just sits with Hezbollah on their Northern Border" might be: b/c Hezbollah have 'extreme' guided missiles and many thousands of them; rockets that can reach Tel Aviv, the Ben Gurion Airport and all the cities and homes in between. It would be a real war. Another reason is b/c they lost to Lebanon in '82 even with American help; Another is that the Arab countries would not permit an Israeli attack against Hezbollah without getting involved themselves against Israel. This is my understanding, thus far.
Disappointed but not surprised about Sam’s view on this. Not unrelated, I truly admire the way Jewish people stick together worldwide, religious or not. Now, I think the most disingenuous think that people like Harris are doing is framing the pushing back on relentless bombing of Palestinian citizens as support for Hamas. This creates a false dichotomy that you are either for Israel (the holy good victims of the world) and Hamas (the entirety of all people in Palestine). This framing is the only way normal people can justify bombing 800 Palestinian babies, mothers, teachers, dancers, etc. to kill a single suspected Hamas member. The attack on Israel was awful and heartbreaking, but that was Hamas that did it, not everyday people living their lives in Palestine. Why do they have to pay for Hamas’ actions. Sam Harris, conflates Muslims with Hamas and Jihad even though 10 year Palestinian kids are at no fault
Most Muslims support Hamas’s goals. Though some disapprove of their methods.
They aren’t doing anything that doesn’t line up with the goals outlined in the Quran.
@@infidelheretic923
That is far from true. Muslims have been the predominant victims of Islamic terrorist groups. Organizations like Hamas give muslims a bad name.
Just like the IDF does for the Jewish community.
800? The death toll in gaza is over 8k now.
@@infidelheretic923 This thinking is the problem. The vast majority of Palestinians have done absolutely nothing to Jews, but are being killed nonetheless
@@infidelheretic923 So what’s your point? Better to kill them all? And their children?
Also, there’s not one religion that doesn’t have something in there that could justify shocking violence. Absolutely Christianity and Judaism do. This is not a uniquely Islamic trait.
Good discussion of the rationalisation of violence through theology and religion. Thanks for covering Hamas' attacks on Israeli civilians.
Why would settlements be allowed so close to the border? A concert that close? In hindsight so many mistakes and extremely poor judgement.
Yah blame the victims....
Jews want to live in Jerusalem. Muslims claim its their holy land, but why do they pray to the mecca in Saudi Arabia then..?@@Agtsmirnoff
I didn't blame them, but those are legitimate questions.@@Agtsmirnoff
@@Agtsmirnofftry building your shed in someone else's garden and then complain when you get your head kicked
@@JohnGlen502 You're 100% blaming them. Israel isn't a big country you know....