I'll readily admit that this video was a very intimidating topic to broach, especially as someone coming from outside this entire sphere of pop culture. The more people started talking about how excited they were to see me talk about wrestling, the more I started to sweat with the anxiety that I couldn't possibly meet everyone's expectations, knowing that there was a massive ocean of knowledge and technicalities that I couldn't possibly talk about with any level of certainty. Not wanting to stew on this video for another month or two, I instead focused on what I personally found to be the most interesting; the contrast between real life stunt wrestling and the "real" wrestling of fighting games. But I also understand that this video may seem abrupt, as my limited understanding of wrestling can only take me so far. Regretfully I must admit that this is not my best work, but I hope there was at least something of value in my hapless floundering into the vast ocean of wrestling culture.
Don’t beat yourself up, this video was still really good. Personally, my favorite part is when you can name the techniques and showcase different characters using those moves, like in the bajiquan video. I hope piguaquan is next so we can see those techniques and how the style differs from bajiquan.
Honestly. I'd love to learn more about this topic in more detail, if possible. Usually a pro wrestler in a fighting games is the big slow guy with the big command grabs and the big damage, but someone like Ángel from KOF and R.Mika from SF play completely different, but they are also classified as pro wrestlers. I understand this was meant to be a short video, but it was incredibly well done; so much so I feel like I need more.
Honestly, for a video from someone who's not crazy into the genre, you pretty much nailed the basics. Obviously there's a whole lot to talk about like I commented but that's more for fun and to show how much influence pro wrestling from all corners of the world has on fighting games. I'm both a fighting game and pro wrestling guy who's followed both for most of my life so this is definitely something I could go on for a while about and if you can get people interested to learn more, that's a better outcome in my opinion.
@@Arausito Its something that would need even more research in a sphere of culture that he isn't all that familiar with (in this case, lucha libre, which shares roots with pro wrestling but has its own branches), but a dive into the different kinds of wrestlers in fighting games would be an absolute blast, like we got the usual classic grapplers like Zangief, but as you mentioned Ángel and R.Mika are a completely different line of style, and then you got guys like Ramón and el fuerte (KOF and sf4, respectively) who use an entirely different line of wrestling, in this case high-flying (which focuses more on acrobatics and speed than raw brute strentgh). Plus there's the bonus of the different things the luchadors have, like el santo being almost a ringside simon belmont with how many classic monsters he's fought in his movies. Certainly something that could be fun to revisit later on.
You did a really good job covering the moves and the selling part, even though you didn’t went into much of the characters the people play in the ring, you did a fantastic job explaining Wrestling biggest appeal and how it’s represented in game like I mention earlier You did great, don’t worry about it
There was a meme that I saw that said “Wrestling is redneck anime.” After getting into it a bit more, I now understand what they meant. And it’s _amazing._
Shoutouts to Smash Bros' handling of Incineroar being a master class of wrestling personas AND animation in general. If his command grab lands, but the opponent is interrupted through the armored hitstun, Incineroar just ends the animation himself with a cocky shrug to the player. You can even fail it by not doing the follow-up and they just non-lethally collide into each other, I love it.
The bombast of pro wrestling and the realm of exaggeration that is fighting games are like a match made in heaven (or should I say a dream match?). It makes sense that someone whose wrestling moves are played up for show would show up in a tournament where fireball-throwing martial artists and wannabe dictators with ancient demon energy are a common occurrence.
I interesetingly enough find Beowulf from skullgirls to be the most interesting version of this because not only does he announce his own moves (to hype up the crowd which cleverly plays into his hype mechanic as well) but even after performing some of his flashy enders he can be heard having concern for his opponent saying things like "are you ok?" because at the end of the day, his still a preformer before he is a... skullguy?
I love the fact that most of his story mode is essentially him genuinely beating the shit of the rest of the cast while thinking it's all a show. Aother fact that makes that better is that he's also the only character that is a completely normal dude. No weird semi-sentient weapons, powerful artifacts, super serums or parasites for Beowulf he's got a chair and he will kick your ass with it.
@@djpegao Ok fair enough but he only pulls that out for a couple moves while parasoul uses her weird implied to be sentient weapon for most of her moves. Plus the arm wasn't supernatural in any way until the end of wulfs story.
One of my favorite tropes for pro wrestlers in fiction is the way characters like to prove their strength was real. Pro wrestling is a work that makes them hold back for safety and a show, but when they're allowed in tournaments to face off with fighters they get to go all out and show just how crazy strong they are.
The fact that happened in real life in PRIDE FC and others, especially when Kazushi Sakuraba took on the Gracie family, is incredible. T-shirts that said "PRO-WRESTLING IS STRONGEST!" as guys like KS, Josh Barnet, and others went out there and became champions with Catch-style was amazing.
Strength is one thing but another is that wrestlers have absolutely insane cardio (apart from the ones who's only gimmick is mass and "ME STRONK"). I particularly like the story of the match between Bam Bam Bigelow (a dude close to 400lbs) and Lawrence Taylor (NFL linebacker), and how after the match Bam Bam (a "fake" athlete) was like "good match, dude" and Taylor (a professional "real" athlete) was on the brink of death from exhaustion. Strength is cool and all but you what you probably need even more of is endurance (both stamina and toughness) to be able to do this stuff several times a week for years.
@@abadenoughdude300 hell yeah, which is why I like pro wrestling a lot, you can be versatile, but be strong as fuck and have good cardio at the same time. Guys like mark Henry who was legit the world's strongest man at one point, was able to Dunk also for his size
One aspect of Pro wrestling that an outsider might not realize is how different various wrestling styles are. Each region of the world has it's own preferred style of pro wrestling and most of them are distinct enough that you could have multiple wrestling characters without them feeling repetitive.
That's one of the things that made me want to try Virtua Fighter 5. Wolf & El Blaze are extremely distinct from each other, despite both being pro wrestlers
Though I've noticed that a lot of professional wrestling characters in fighting games tend to veer toward one of two concepts. They're either the very stereotypical acrobatic lucha libre fighter, or--no matter where they're supposed to be from--their wrestling tends to read more like Japanese puroresu than American pro wrestling. Not necessarily a bad thing, given that puroresu tends to look much more brutal and more like an actual fight, but it does sometimes stand out to me when a character is very clearly _not_ Japanese, and is meant to have a character and personality reflective of an American wrestler. I'd really love to see a character who wrestled like a British pro wrestler, where chain wrestling and submissions are a stronger facet of the style, though. That would be interesting.
@@Mokiefraggle probably because of the fact they tend to be made by Japanese developers. Pro Wrestling isn't really much of a style in western fighting games. So they're more likely to do Japanese style wrestling.
@@jonnyOysters I mean, American wrestling and gaijin wrestlers are pretty popular in Japan as well. Heck, a lot of guys have had a huge run in Japan just as much as they did in America: Hulk Hogan, Vader, Shelton Benjamin, Lance Archer, Hangman Page, Alex Shelley, Chris Benoit, even Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle. So it's not like the Japanese designers have never seen a person who wrestles in the American flash style, rather than King's Road or Strong Style. Heck, British wrestling and lucha libre are also amazingly popular in Japanese wrestling organizations, especially given New Japan Pro Wrestling's connections to Rev Pro and CMLL. So the knowledge base to draw from is potentially pretty vast. The game devs do pretty darn well finding ways to interpret lucha libre, but they just never quite seem to catch onto how to translate American wrestling into the game in a way that doesn't just turn it into King's Road style (super-brutal head drops and the like), but hilariously transposed onto these bombastic, colorful, usually American characters. It's more amusing than anything, though as someone who enjoys puroresu and American wrestling, and can tell the difference, it stands out in a huge way.
The wrestlers from fighting games are LEGITIMATE SHOOTERS Pro Wrestling in fighting games was treated a legitimate fighting arts which means the wrestler "Shoots" on the opponent and are skilled fighters. They execute their moves to hurt their opponent not for entertainment purposes but for legitimate competition. When we call someone in pro wrestling a "Shooter", it means that the wrestler have an experience in real fighting (For example : MMA, Competitive Grappling) and can legitimately fight someone. If we take a look at Pro Wrestling, it contains a lot of moves from different martial arts and grappling arts that can be executed legitimately. Not to mention, Pro wrestling originally came from Catch Wrestling, a legitimate grappling arts that were hosted into carnivals. However, people did not like this "real" wrestling so they have came up with an idea by making it an acrobatic performance where wrestlers sells some fantastic high flying stunts to make it more exciting to people. They did not enjoy the "real" wrestling that was shown unto them so Catch Wrestling is forgotten and lost art because it evolves into "Entertainment Wrestling". However, if we turn Pro Wrestling "Real" just like in fighting games, the wrestlers must train to "Shoot" which means executing their moves legitimately to hurt someone instead being a "Seller". We can translate a lot of moves that was made for entertainment from Suplexes, Holds and Chokes. We can see a lot of Pro Wrestling moves that were done in MMA and went perfectly! Someone even managed to pull a Boston Crab and was lead to victory. We can turn Pro Wrestling into real fighting method and it can be still seen as Pro Wrestling.
One of my favorite fun facts about fighting games and pro wrestling is that King's motion capture in the Tekken series was done for a number of years by Japanese pro wrestling legend Minoru Suzuki, who is widely known as one of the toughest bastards in the entire pro wrestling industry.
In a way, grapplers in Tekken 7 do need their opponents to cooperate if they want to do their best moves. King's long chain throws, for example, can be broken at multiple opportunities, unlike a traditional juggle combo, which you just have to eat if you don't block the launcher. Obviously it's not the same, because your opponent in Tekken is trying to stop you and only "cooperates" by failing, but it is an interesting contrast. Also, chain throws take way longer to complete than combos of similar damage value, which sort of represents overacting and selling the hit. You might blink and miss a Perfect Electric Wind God Fist, but there's no way you won't see King turning his opponent into a human pretzel.
Tekken also does it really well with having a lot of the throw break/reversals be really exaggerated animations that would probably require both people to cooperate if it was done IRL.
The most consistent thing among fightan wrestlers, I think, is that they're all massive showboats. It makes sense, fundamentally: fighting games are already pretty much the same thing as pro wrestling. You're watching a fictional contest of strength featuring cool as hell but improbable moves, and fighters who get wrecked in the ring yet are always ready for the next fight as if the whole thing was staged. So to make them stand out, wrestlers tend to play up the entertainment angle really hard. They pose, they show off, they ham it up, they often bring in referees and audiences out of nowhere just to look like a boss. Even Smash, where the token wrestler is a giant cat, decided to add in a system where he literally taunts every time he lands a move.
That mostly likely because Street Fighter 2, the game that popularized the fighting game genre, was heavily influenced by anime. Wresting HAS always been anime.
@@UsingGorillaLogic No, that just manga working in different format from western comics. Mangakas working in the fighting genre always have characters shout their special attacks to emphasize the effectiveness, the feel, of their attacks. This tradition gets copied in their anime adaptations. There is website that explains this trope.
4:32 Did not think I would see Sans and Papyrus taking on Mr.L and Ness in the ring in a Sugarpunch video. And I am so glad you mentioned the KOF All-Star x WWE crossover, that was so absurd that it just... worked.
Let us not forget The Rock talking shit to just about everyone, including Orochi of all characters. Or John Cena taking Shingo on as a protege after kicking Kyo's ass, diss rapping Iori, and singlehandedly turning NESTS into a benevolent organization that's curing diseases. OR, in probably the dumbest joke that only a hardcore fan could get, Seth Rollins rejecting to train in Kyokugenryu because he'd have to wear all white and he swore to never do that ever again (in reference to Vince McMahon never letting Seth wear his all white Summerslam 2015 attire after the event)
Quick bit of trivia, Saturday Night Slammasters/Muscle Bomber reveal that pro wrestling in the street fighter universe is real, full contact hand to hand combat even in the ring. Zangief, Alex, Mika, and Abel aren't modifying their moves for street fights, those ARE their moves Also, seeing the Baz and Rage fighting brings me a nice smile
It is interesting to think of how many games tend to favor the big combos or precise attacks… and for some characters, they can get just as damage out just by grabbing the opponent and violently tossing them around like a rag doll and into the pavement.
That's part of what makes Grapplers and other "Big" characters feel so powerful. They don't need a twenty hit combo of intense fast moving hits to drain half a health bar. They just need to pick you up and slam you down to the floor once.
It's the old adage: in a race to do a math problem, the opponent needs to make hundreds of small equations. I, on the other hand, need only to make a huge long division once.
Grapplers in fighting games usually have grabs that are supposed to look and feel like they really hurt, so it makes sense that Pro Wrestling would be a perfect match
That's because combat sports will never be as cool as theatrical martial arts. Even in the late 80's when NHB and other organizations tried to make their own irl "Bloodsport" it turned out muay boran and dirty kickboxing obsoleted all other martial arts by simply having one hyper-efficient counter to every possible opponent approach. Then the organizations pushing this new sport added rules to target dirty fighting or to protect grapplers and MMA was born. But even so, it's not a syncretist approach to combat sports bringing together the best of all disciplines. It's just kickboxers training some bjj to protect from takedowns, or bjj/judo fighters training some kickboxing to protect from striking. TKD, karate, lethwei, wrestling, savate, sambo, etc. never show up in the octagon anymore.
@@Stroggoii there have been multiple champions the last 30 years who had a wrestling base, and a handful of Sambo guys, but otherwise, yeah, the others are super rare.
@@Stroggoii it depends on ruleset, really: ring, mats, what is allowed etc., octagon fighting has no ring outs but soft enough mats, so you get half of matches ending up huddling in the corner. Unwatchable. A fight with ring and ropes will have less grappling, ironically, and actual grappling combat sports have circles or mats you can't fall from, but also no cage for the lovey dovey yaoi hugging MMA always does. And anything on hard floors will have basically no ground jiujitsu stuff because who the hell wants to roll on asphalt? Whoever falls, loses or jumps back up.
Fun fact King was mocapped by japanese wrestler Minoru Suzuki in Tekken 3, which is the reason King wears a shirt rather than his wrestling attire as it was Suzuki's entrance attire in real life.
As someone who loves Pro Wrestling and Fighting Games, I always love to see how some Wrestling moves will translate into fighting games One example of this is with the Tombstone Piledriver, which looks like a devastating move on screen and in a game like Tekken 7 where King and Armor King do the Tombstone, it feels more devastating taking into account the camera shaking and the sound effect One other thing that I love about Pro Wrestling is that a form of art, not only are you seeing two people fighting in the ring, but they are also telling you a story with their body languages and with that body language, you get to know more about them as a character whether they are a Face (Good Guy) or Heel (Bad Guy) For example, Heels tend to cheat a lot during fights, one example of this is a Poison Mist, which is a common move use by some wrestlers that they would drink something that’s green and then would spit that into their opponents face while the Referee isn’t looking, this move can be seen use by Armor King in Tekken, which is a perfect move for him to use since he is consider as heel wrestler in the Tekken Universe I just love when I get to see 2 things I love complement each other so well Great video
You can see armor king being the heel in how brutal some attacks are compared to kings version of them, like his shining wizard, giant swing, jaguar bomb, qcb1+2 etc. I mean the guy literally has a win pose where he kicks the already defeated opponent in the head lol
Yoshimitsu, and, for some reason, NINA, of all people, do poison mist in Tekken! Also Williams sisters do some pro wrestling locks, and for some weird reason, Bryan Fury, a kickboxer, has most of his throws straight from pro wrestling, with neckbreakers, DDTs and suplexes. Lee Chaolan too.
It's amusing to learn how so many aspects (moves, characters) of fighting games come STRAIGHT from pro wrestling with no subtlety. There's actual pro wrestling characters, and then there's stuff like the magitek soldier Potemkin's signature technique being an Argentine backbreaker. There's also something ironic about how I still unconsciously identify pro wrestling as the de facto "fictional" martial art of fighting games--it's not like it's the most impractical martial art popular in games. The only part of the video that disappointed me was the absence of Alex powerbombing the 30 meter tall and 200 ton giant robot Gold Lightan in Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom. Absolutely mesmerizing.
There was a video from Polygon that went into just how much pro wrestling influenced video game fighting for the same reasons stated in this video: readability.
There's a whole lot more to discover between real-life wrestling translating into fighting games. The influences especially are a treat for any wrestling fan to discover. There's Rey Mysterio being the inspiration for Virtua Fighter's El Blaze, World Heroes's Muscle Power originally looking exactly like Hulk Hogan until they had to shave his 'stache, and then there's All Japan Pro Wrestling legends Mitsuharu Misawa and Kenta Kobashi having their iconic finishing moves be integrated into move lists. God, now I want to make a video lol
Heck, it's even more interesting when you consider real-life wrestling taking inspiration from video games. Whether that be from references on their attires or in their movesets. I feel Kenny Omega is a prime example of that. The guy's an active fighting game enthusiast, and has named several moves after video game characters, such as the Dr. Wily Bomb and his finishing move, The One-Winged Angel, which you saw him perform throughout this video. He even occasionally performs Hadoukens in the ring. Even in his entrances he often references several games, including Street Fighter when he cosplayed as Akuma, down to two separate incidents involving Undertale. Once on his final NJPW appearance when he came out to a theme and video package composed by Toby Fox, and the second on a Halloween episode of AEW Dynamite when he came out to Megalovania, and dressed up as Sans himself.
@@thebombkidbomb Yes, I am very well aware of Kenny Omega lol. Getting to play the role of Cody in his reveal trailer while goddamn Xavier Woods is the one on the phone in that. On top of that New Day vs. The Elite spectacle at E3
Wrestling in fighting games makes me both very happy and very sad. Mostly because I love wrestling, but I rarely enjoy the gameplay style of grapplers. The only one I really vibed with is Beowulf in Skullgirls. However, I always enjoy watching a a nice wrestling move in a game. As silly as I think Alex's stance is in SF5, all of his grapples just look absolutely amazing.
I LOVE playing as Tina in DOA, as she got those ground, juggle and air throws incorporated into combos... in Tekken tho, good luck remembering King's inputs!
One thing that also helps is the fact that fighting games are influenced by the Japanese Pro-Wrestling scene which has a higher emphasis on real Martial Arts techniques just more fantastical. Plus early Pancrase which was basically a competition that asked the question what if the competition Ruleset pro wrestlers pretend to compete under was actually real.
KOF All-star's Crossover list is absolutely insane. You can put anime characters, WWE Wrestlers and virtually every big name in Fighting Game history (save for a Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct and Virtua Fighter Rep) in a team. There's nothing like putting Heihachi Mishima, Ryu and Terry Bogard on a team, getting help from Sol Badguy, Haomaru and one of the many Dead or Alive women in the game. Oh yeah, excellent video! Always fun to see someone who isn't familiar with Pro Wrestling immerse himself and others in some knowledge.
I think the best part of the WWE/KoF All Star crossover event was just how much fun they were clearly having with it. They leaned into the shared names for characters, character appropriate reactions to Rock's shenanigans and catchphrases, even Kofi breaking the fourth wall properly and realizing 'Oh shit, I'm in a King of Fighters game!'
Dude when i first picked up Tekken 7 i was so hyped and surprised at the fact they had a NJPW crossover and that King could do the Rainmaker. I dont use any other costume but the Okada one
And just like Okada, he makes that otherwise laughably simple move look terrifying; like he's trying to rip his opponent's freaking head off with his forearm.
@@EmperorPylades two moves that define pro wrestling to me aren't insane piledrivers and vertical suplexes but a clothesline and elbow drop. If you can make these look good, you're a good wrestler. Anyone who can do a convincing lariat like Rainmaker or Ax Bomber into a finisher is automatic GOAT, and same with elbow drops.
@@KasumiRINA reminds me of a comment from William Regal about his time working with Triple H in NXT. At tryouts, he didn't care if you could land a Canadian Destroyer from the top rope with a 360 spin while whistling God Save the Queen; if you couldn't lock up convincingly, he checked out on the spot. You're damn right that the basics matter. When I watch wrestling, while I might appreciate the skill and athleticism on display, I want to suspend my disbelief and pretend that what I'm seeing is real. And moves that don't require heavy and obvious co-operation are what make that work. Though I will note, while Okada makes the Rainmaker look good (That downward follow-through is great), so much of a move like a Ripcord Lariat comes down to how the other guy sells it.
I just love how you transitioned us into the montage; was like for a brief moment, you were deep into the understanding of wrestling fans. ...or at the very least, you really love the powerful spin fighting games place upon wrestling moves.
King is hands down the best wrestling character in any fighting game history. Nothing is gonna top him. His appearance and moveset is completely unmatched.
t8 king specially is the hypest mf from any fighting game. Dude has the charisma with his showboating. also gief sf6 got a great glow up in this side aswell, and his theatrics now are so good that in a local tournament here, the whole crowd stood up cheering as his "loyal fans" when the guy playing gief managed to hit the level 3 in a crazy hard read (got the jp teleporting), and most of the audience weren't even cheering on the guy since he was from another state, it was just the fact the character now has this level of charisma and hype power.
@@Perdix64 literraly that lmao i fucking love that sequence. Dude comes, grows while giving batista bombs and atitude adjustments and everyone else were like "yeah we can do this!"
THANK you for explain the difference in “Fake” & “Staged”, “Pre-Determined”, & just add in “Scripted” (which is the other two combined really. Lol! As someone who doesn’t know much about wrestling…well done!
Wrestling has consistently been on of my favorite fighting styles in fighting games. It just felt badass to slam the life out of opponents with all kinds of techniques.
King is a love letter to pro wrestling. so many actual moves. so fun to hit. the moment i saw King do a shining wizard (some of my fav wrestlers use it) i fell in love
This is the 2nd of these in a row where I felt the anime Kengan Ashura has interesting things to say on the topic. It provides a great illustration of what a Sumo FG character might look like, and also spends a lot of time on pro wrestling as a fictional fighting art.
Pro Wrestling: theatrical fight, popular in Mexico (lucha libre) and USA Olympic Wrestling (Freestyle or Greco-Roman): a legit martial art, very popular in Mixed Martial Arts
When you said "The Undertaker has powers" it made me think of Midway's WWF Wrestlemania - a Mortal Kombat like fighting game with side scrolling beat 'em up style movement where each character had special moves, combos and epic MK uppercuts, alongside the classic wrestling grapples. I find it interesting that the Mortal Kombat series may have had characters with wrestling moves, but hasn't had one that feels quite like a full on wrestler until Geras in MK11. I guess it makes sense because MK is more about heroes fighting to protect the world from villains rather than fighters of different disciplines gathering to test their strength.
@@KasumiRINA Yes, MK has wrestling moves, but there's no wrestler character. Jax may have the wrestler variation, but he always felt like more of a boxer than a wrestler.
After seeing Zangief on SF6 with attention, i realized that he has a body slam move where the animation depicts Zangief throwing their opponents to the ground WHILEST he is holding back their neck, assuring they safely take the hit with the back and not with their head or neck. Its such a great detail, because of course and as stated in the video, wrestling is dangerous and both wrestlers work to not actually damage the guy taking the bump, but also helps the psychology of the match, by repeatedly punshing a particular part of the body, you make more credible the match, instead of just throwing random attacks at random parts of the body. I wonder if that particular part of pro wrestling translates to fighting games, the most i can think is how pro wrestling grabs on fighting games tend to punish the head and neck, because of course they would, even if of course its fictional and there is 0 danger of making someone land on their neck full force, it's still commonly perceipt as deadly.
knowing wwe they are gonna copyright this brilliant video just cus of those clips and specifically those fantastic chair shots from a now dead and buried era of great wrestling.
Pro wrestling is interesting, especially in fighting games since it originated from Catch Wrestling as a legitimate submission grappling art that people still practice today. I'd almost wish there were more submissions in some of these movesets
Hard to do submission mechanics in videogames. In most fighting games you just have this unrealistic thing with immediate arm snaps and even neck breaks with opponent shrugging them off... I wish for a slower, resistance based grapples, but you only find those in wrestling or MMA games not fighters.
@@KasumiRINA fair, but I'm ok with the concessions if that's what's necessary. Like Goh Hinogami from Virtua Fighter has sick looking submissions, unrealistic joint popping or not.
Gotta Love WRESTLING and them WRESTLERS in Fighting games. My favorite grappler Super is king of DINOSAURS lvl2 Hurricane Smash. All WRESTLERS in FGs are pretty similar to ARTEMIS REIGAN in BAKI. No longer have to hold back and show their Full power. Probably the Closest real WRESTLING feels to an FG is the Hell in a Cell matches.
God this missed such a good opportunity to show the mother of all extreme wrestling: the Kinnikuman series. It is exactly everything being said about wrestling in fighting games but cranked up to 12. This includes: A wrestler turning a grounded strangle hold into ripping the opponents whole torso off (later censored into twisting his torso in ungodly ways and breaking every bone until he gets turn into ramen), landing a buster move with the opponents head on the top part of the poles the hold the ropes (my wrestling lingo is horribly rusty), a double sided clothesline that rips faces off and a wrestler literally deteriorating into nothing as he does his last signature move and ending with only his head doing one final move before passing away.
It’s always exciting to see pro wrestling interpreted in fighting games. A shame that Rainbow Mika probably won’t come back to SF6 anytime soon considering that her biggest cheerleader (Ono) left Capcom. Maybe Zangief can double down on the wrestler part of his character to get away from his patriotic aspects after…recent world events. Also, loving the use of ARMS music.
I don't think Gief is going anywhere. Street Fighter 5 already pushed the Russia out of Zangief as much as possible (Compare him in SF4, where russia was 50% of his character and wrestling was the other half, to SF5 where his schtick is "Muscle Power" and he never once mentions his country)... actually now that I think of it Zangief is the *only* character that really waved his flag in previous interations of Street Fighter. Guile might wear the flag, but I don't think he ever says "america" or "my country" or anything like that. The only two characters I can think of that mention their nation of origin that *aren't* zangief are Rufus and El Fuerte.
I think it's too stupid for Capcom to not add characters introduced in SFV even if it's a couple of characters. Though knowing Capcom they might do it.
Oooh, I can't wait to see the episode on Pinguaquan. It's not very famous among martial arts enthusiasts but I really like the flowing motions and beautiful stances it includes.
This was a fun look at pro wrestling. It would be cool if at some point you did a follow up that focuses on Lucha Libre, which is technically also Pro Wrestling but with stronger focuses on acrobatics and substantially different astetic to what people usually associate with Pro wrestling
As a professional animator for fighting games. These videos are fekn AMAZING!! The video was greatly informational on stuff that i just would never of thought of, like why theyre actions are more expressive or stomping the ground when attacking. Although kinda wish you listed all the characters you know of that use these techniques or atleast characters you used for examples. To help for further research, which was the main reason i found this video.
6:30 Aerial Piledriver (or Borscht Dynamite) has to be one of my favorite animations from a fighting game ever, the way Zangief punches his opponent and uses that same torque to spin and rise through the air to then slam them on the ground with the spinning piledriver is just so satysfying, the camera angles, sound and sfx really help selling how strong of a move it is.
As a fan of fighting games and wrestling, I appreciate that you tackled this topic and I think you did a good job of highlighting the appeal of both real life and virtual wrestling.
I love pro wrestling. The bombast, the larger than life personas, the incredible stunts, the stories that can sometimes be told in just a match between them. There are all kinds of wrestlers, if you want something grounded, something almost cartoonish, acrobatics, etc. One of the guys who represents and who I'd call someone who lives wresting is William Regal. A British wrestling veteran, the wrestles the old catch-wrestling, which was a carnival event where these strongmen would challenge the audience to grapple for a while. It's not flashy, but their strength was the real deal. William Regal used this and simple strikes and grapples, often fighting dirty or brutal; one of his finishers was a simple running knee to the head, or a punch with hidden brass knuckles. Being a heel (evil guy), you loved to hate him, for being an uptight snooty Englishman, or a coward, or a figure of authority few respected. For anyone who likes manga and anime, Kengan Ashura has Jun Sekibayashi, a massive wrestler who is pretty much a love letter to what makes pro wrestling so good to many.
Oh, hey! Nice to see another Regal fan in the wild! British wrestling on the whole is such a strikingly different beast from American pro wrestling...the intensity is very different, and the way the wrestlers fight and move...in general, all professional wrestling styles are just so different: lucha libre versus American pro wrestling, Japanese Strong Style versus King's Road Style, British professional wrestling, each one has a very different way of telling its story, and it can also be fascinating to see how they blend and interact. Seeing what happens when you drop a wrestler trained in the British style into a Japanese puroresu federation, for instance (such as one of my favorites, Zack Sabre Jr. Highly submission-focused British catch-wrestling guy suddenly meets Strong Style. Great to watch.)
@@Mokiefraggle It was a treat to see Zack Sabre Jr. fight Negro Navarro. They had an amazing match where they tried to outmaneuver each other. Amazing match.
A small correction on the powerbomb thing. Wrestlers usually DON'T let go to let their opponent so they have more control over the slam so they don't accidentally drop the guy on his head and/or shoulders. A good example of that happening is Brock Lesnar to Hardcore Holly, Holly couldn't quite get himself up for the move and Brock dropped him on his head accidentally. This broke Holly's neck. The example you gave was of Kevin Nash's jackknife powerbomb (one of the most popular variations of the move,) it was unique in that he DID let go and dropped his opponent half way through the powerbomb. It was in fact more dangerous to do things that way and it really was a testament to Nash's skill in delivering the move that more people weren't hurt by it. If you want better examples of more traditional powerbombs see how Walter, Keith Lee, Kane, JBL, and Kevin Owens do their own versions of the move as a few examples.
I think the video was definitely worth it, you explained the basics enough, and as a very visual fighting style to begin with, simply letting some of the moves speak for themselves was worth it. I think one of the things worth pointing out is the fact that pro wrestling is so pervasive in video games, and fighting games in particular, that it bleeds into non-wrestling characters movesets. as well. Look at Ralf and Clark from King of Fighters. While Clark's style is very much pro wrestling, Ralf (who in earlier games shared palette swap duties with Clark) still has a wrestling move or two despite being much more focused on strikes and punches. There's Bryan Fury from Tekken, who despite having a brutal strike based style with some muay thai influence, still ends up busting out a spinning diamond cutter and a sleeper suplex. Many characters that no real business doing overt pro wrestling moves (especially moves that couldn't charitably be considered derived from something like jiujitsu instead) still busting them out, because they imply power and impact, and have high readability in fast-paced fighting environments.
Was hoping there'd be more on King here, but I enjoyed the video. It's worth noting that the motion capture for King for the original Tekken game was done by legendary pro wrestler Minoru Suzuki.
So this will be a bit of a negative comment. The video started really well and you explained what pro-wrestling was really well however when it came to pro-wrestlers in fighting games the video became a massive dud. Maybe it was my expectations after the sumo video but I thought you were going to list off the various wrestlers throughout the fighting games, talk about how they have different types of wrestlers ie luchador and regular wrestlers and then delve into these characters stories and if they have any similarities or differences like you did with the sumos. Then I thought you may even rank them again or give a brief overall on any differences you think should happen with wrestlers in fighters, if any. Like when you get on to grapplers you literally only mention one character by name and just show clips of others doing their grapples. Like you could have done a whole 4 minute monologue on Ladiva alone and how her wrestling factors into her presentation and gameplay most noticeably through her super but instead you just show a 4 second clip of it and are like "yep that's enough". While I can understand tis next point might not be strictly relevant but both snk and capcom produced wrestling games in the 90s and capcom even made a sequel to theirs which turned it into a wrestling themed fighting game (slam masters 2) I've read your pinned comment and I have to say like I started when you talked about what pro-wrestling was you did a really good job at explaining it and developing the context for the video and you say you were most interested in how they make "fake" moves look real in fighters, however even at doing that I feel like was done wrong by just showing a 30 second montage of moves I hope with style selects going forward you treat it more similar to the sumo video than this one
So. Much. Baz! Also Max and the Zaibatsu! Setting all that aside, great job! That's pretty much the best and most concise explanation about the whole shebang here that I've seen.
I see you used a lot of footage from Two Best Friends for the video game portion. Woolie watched this video on his latest react stream and noticed it almost immediately because of Zubaz. Love to see my favorite former channel still have groundswell after years have passed.
Man I would love a real ass pro wrestling fighting game where everyone is basically a grappler. Pro wrestling feels like it was made for fighting games and there’s so much you can do with it. You could have A heel or face Groove system or a system where taunts Inflict debuffs and grant buffs to your own character. SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE THIS GAME
Great vid about the grapplers, I've loved them in gaming due to over dramtic flair of the moves. it just fits fighting games so well hell alot of the more bombastic wrestling moves most grapplers have come from the kinnikuman series if you wanna see how moves translated to be "real" would be check out some videos of the games Kinnikuman muscle fight (2D) or Kinnikuman muscle grand prix 2 (3D) its a classic shonen jump series that really should be brought to the forefront more often
In the example footage, Kevin Nash so obviously tosses Benoit during his powerbomb because Nash's Jackknife Powerbomb was really a release powerbomb. In other versions, the person performing the move will either keep their hold or will shift their hands to make it look like they are further "shoving" the opponent downward (without exerting more force). Indeed, that is how moves like the pinning powerbomb (powerbomb transitioning directly into a pin attempt) and the triple powerbomb (three consecutive powerbombs) are performed. Of course you also have "fun" stuff like the Ganso Bomb, where you just drop your opponent on their neck and hope they don't end up paralyzed or dead. Yes, the result of a botched powerbomb attempt (Kawada trying to powerbomb Misawa despite having a broken arm) became an *intentional* move in future matches. An important thing to remember about pro-wrestling (and stunt work in general) is that "professional" doesn't necessarily mean "safe".
Giving a thumbs up but sad to not see Wolf from Virtua Fighter and Bass from Dead or Alive. My only other complaint is that the video wasn't longer lol.
As someone who got back into wrestling during the pandemic i really enjoyed this video, particularly the succinct rundown of what pro wrestling is but from a quote/unquote outsider's lense. And no, that's not a DDT, i believe that's a take on a bulldog
@@steveking1037 1:49 that's Dominic Mysterio on.... I think that's Austin Theory. I don't watch WWE outside of TH-cam, but anyways that looks like a bulldog to me
The thing I love about the wrassler archetype in fighting games is when they hit the move mid fight and you wince a little like ouch, makes you kinda realize men and women do this daily as a job. These moves if used correctly can do damage to someone. There's actually a sub section to pro wrestling where the style is exclusively two dudes having a fight just in pro wrestling terms. If anyone is interested in that hard hitting just beat you up in fight wincing style I suggest looking up either Minoru Suzuki or Katsuyori Shibata or Bryan Danielson. All skilled lethal in that style.
Sounds like you're talking about something like Catch wrestling, which is in part as close to real deal wrestling as possible under the pro wrestling umbrella. Part of it too is that, in the old carney days, you had to be expected to take control in case an opponent got too big for the britches and legitimately wrestle them down so they don't ruin the whole show. The pedigree of the catch style comes from that, folks with legitimate grappling with real-life non-worked capacity, just adapted to work in pro wrestling theatricals. Catch Wrestling is a huge influence on the grappling done in MMA, alongside jiujitsu.
You're only half correct at 2:10 & 5:57 if we are including japanese strong style wrestling. Strong style wrestlers are hitting each other full contact & full force, actually applying submissions & slamming their opponent onto the mat hard, even on the back of their necks sometimes (see Misawa's tiger driver 91, for example).
I think you're mixing up Strong Style with Shoot Style. Shoot style is going for maximum realism similar to shoot fighting, and including very realistic strikes and submissions with the proper force. Strong Style is still worked, but working a stiffer (read: less worked, but still worked) style. The move you point out, Tiger Driver '91, yes, it's a much more dangerous version of the original move, and dumps opponents on their necks, but they still try and take precautions. The actual lift for the move still probably would require the opponent to push himself up into position, and they work on their neck strength as well as how to tuck their body in enough to minimize the damage. They're still dangerous because you're still just minimizing the damage, not negating it, but it's still not the full real deal.
@@KryptikM3 I know that strong style is partly worked but the strikes are still at full force, just see Suzuki or Ishii or both. (Also, the opponent doesn't have to lift themselves into position for the Tiger Driver, I've done it to someone in a fight.)
I just love how pro wrestling is shown in gaming and manga/anime. Still performers at heart but removing the restriction of making sure the other guy survives your attack It makes it much more endearing. Kengan Ashura with Sekibayashi is amazing! Showing the essence of Pro Wrestling. King being so show off-y yet agile and powerful is frankly great
Pro-Wrestling has always been connected since the early days of fighting games, a lot of fighting game characters are base off real life pro-wrestlers that wrestle in various different promotions.
That's not bad for someone who isn't into pro wrestling. There is at least one thing missing and that is the different styles of pro wrestling. *Catch Wrestling* - Also known as Catch as Catch Can, this is the OG of professional wrestling. In fact, a large part of it comes from Catch Wrestling. In fact, Catch Wrestling became popular in other countries - for example, in Japan it was introduced and after wrestlers took down big time judo stars, it became part of the culture and became what is now today known as **puroresu** (or 'Strong Style' as it is known here). This is going to be the main style of wrestling you will see in most grapplers out there. *Puroresu* - The Japanese take on Catch Wrestling, the biggest differences here are the 'fighting spirit' each wrestler has; the strength of hitting (watch a NJPW match one time.. when they say 'full contact', they MEAN it); the lack of angles and gimmicks that you see in most pro wrestling organizations today and a very healthy respect for MMA (in fact, many wrestlers in Puroresu are trained in other martial arts). Armor King from Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection is your best example of the puroresu style today. *Lucha Libre* - The Mexican (and in term, Latin American) style of pro wrestling, this style is known for the masks the wrestlers wear, the quick rapid fire moves and holds and many high flying attacks. The masks are extremely important in Lucha Libre, so there is one extremely important match here - Luchas de Apuestas ("Matches with Wagers"). You or your opponent can either put their mask or their hair on the line and the loser... well, you can kind of figure the outcome from there. The best known examples of Lucha Libre in fighting games are El Fuerte, Tizoc, La Mariposa and El Blaze (and before anyone mentions it - yes, King and Armor King are Luchadors, but the style of pro wrestling they use isn't Lucha Libre. King falls in line with more of what you see in modern pro wrestling organizations while, as mentioned before, Armor King is based in puroresu) *Hardcore* - Also known as 'Garbage Wrestling', you can pretty much throw out the rule books here. Anything goes, anything can be used in this street fight. In fact, hardcore style has been in a fighting game before - the Deathmatch mode in World Heroes. Traditionally, a deathmatch is violent, bloody, nasty spectacle in which both fighters will bleed and bleed a lot. In World Heroes, the violence is still there, but it was extremely toned down. Still, you have Needle Matches (two giant spiked presses on each side of the arena), Fire and Electric Matches (the ring ropes are on fire or can shock you), land mines, oil and even a match for your hair (which falls more into Lucha Libre territory)
The only edit I'd make is to differentiate "shoot style/strong style" from "poruresu"... "poruresu" is just "pro" (poru) "wrestling" (resu), an Engrish pronunciation of ANY pro wrestling in Japan. The hard hitting strong style grew out of "shoot style" (legit) matches, like Shooto and Pancrase. NJPW has a lot of wrestlers that closely approximate what would be a legitimate fight, but they still have others who, aside from their penchant for head drops, are very similar to Western-style pro wrestlers. You can also dive into the history of catch in the legitimate "hooks" (pain compliance and submission holds) early pro wrestlers employed to either make sure their partner in the match stuck to the script, or would use to put away the rubes in carney "last ____ in the ring with ...." wagers.
when i first picked up fighting games(my first two were skull girls and tekken) i gravitated towards Beowulf and King, so I thought, hey guess im a grappler. I then went to Street fighter and tried Zangief, didnt vibe, so i stopped trying. Came back later and really thought about what i liked about my other characters, so I tried R.Mika. Vibed a lot better, still not a fan of Street fighter, but now i know its not grapplers i like, but (pro)wrestlers. The point im trying to make is basically pro wrestlers king, beo, wolf, have a different feel to the 'traditional' grapplers like gief or guilty gear guy, please dont kill me fpr not remembering his name nor feeling like looking it up. Time to try out Virtua Fighter.
Historical wrestling is generally recognized as the most practical martial art for actually defending yourself. Most all brawls end up with two men on the ground grappeling each other.
Strange, I thought, that Asuka uses Aikido style. I mean, her alternate costume (at least in Tekken 6) was actually aikido fighters' outfit with hakama pants. More you know.
You know, I actually practiced Jiu Jitsu and also thought Asuka was Aikido. Although tbf Jiu Jitsu is a fairly slow style meant to restrict and supress stronger opponents with the least effort possible, it's an fairly self-defense oriented martial art. Hell even the sport aspect of it is more centered on scoring through proper technique usage rather than takedowns/submissions. The style is so defensive that you only get to subdue your opponent if they fuck up royally or have a massive gap in strength (and I mean MASSIVE).
The problem with aikido in fighting games is that there is really no offense. So, most aikido looks like a combination of judo, jiujitsu, and aikido. The most famous aikido practitioner in FGs would probably be Geese, but it’s clear he has some other influences. Asuka’s got probably the clearest aikido inspired moves though, as her stances are made to lead into throwing the opponent to the side.
Keep in mind, Aikido isn't a real martial art... it would be like having a fighter use Tai Chi. Jujutsu, the original Japanese version, had a lot of the nasty little things you actually see in games or movies attributed to "Aikido."
I'll readily admit that this video was a very intimidating topic to broach, especially as someone coming from outside this entire sphere of pop culture. The more people started talking about how excited they were to see me talk about wrestling, the more I started to sweat with the anxiety that I couldn't possibly meet everyone's expectations, knowing that there was a massive ocean of knowledge and technicalities that I couldn't possibly talk about with any level of certainty. Not wanting to stew on this video for another month or two, I instead focused on what I personally found to be the most interesting; the contrast between real life stunt wrestling and the "real" wrestling of fighting games. But I also understand that this video may seem abrupt, as my limited understanding of wrestling can only take me so far. Regretfully I must admit that this is not my best work, but I hope there was at least something of value in my hapless floundering into the vast ocean of wrestling culture.
Don’t beat yourself up, this video was still really good. Personally, my favorite part is when you can name the techniques and showcase different characters using those moves, like in the bajiquan video. I hope piguaquan is next so we can see those techniques and how the style differs from bajiquan.
Honestly. I'd love to learn more about this topic in more detail, if possible. Usually a pro wrestler in a fighting games is the big slow guy with the big command grabs and the big damage, but someone like Ángel from KOF and R.Mika from SF play completely different, but they are also classified as pro wrestlers. I understand this was meant to be a short video, but it was incredibly well done; so much so I feel like I need more.
Honestly, for a video from someone who's not crazy into the genre, you pretty much nailed the basics. Obviously there's a whole lot to talk about like I commented but that's more for fun and to show how much influence pro wrestling from all corners of the world has on fighting games. I'm both a fighting game and pro wrestling guy who's followed both for most of my life so this is definitely something I could go on for a while about and if you can get people interested to learn more, that's a better outcome in my opinion.
@@Arausito Its something that would need even more research in a sphere of culture that he isn't all that familiar with (in this case, lucha libre, which shares roots with pro wrestling but has its own branches), but a dive into the different kinds of wrestlers in fighting games would be an absolute blast, like we got the usual classic grapplers like Zangief, but as you mentioned Ángel and R.Mika are a completely different line of style, and then you got guys like Ramón and el fuerte (KOF and sf4, respectively) who use an entirely different line of wrestling, in this case high-flying (which focuses more on acrobatics and speed than raw brute strentgh).
Plus there's the bonus of the different things the luchadors have, like el santo being almost a ringside simon belmont with how many classic monsters he's fought in his movies. Certainly something that could be fun to revisit later on.
You did a really good job covering the moves and the selling part, even though you didn’t went into much of the characters the people play in the ring, you did a fantastic job explaining Wrestling biggest appeal and how it’s represented in game like I mention earlier
You did great, don’t worry about it
There was a meme that I saw that said “Wrestling is redneck anime.”
After getting into it a bit more, I now understand what they meant. And it’s _amazing._
And if you want to go full into the anime part there's always kinnikuman/ultimate muscle
dude that statement is so much more true if u ever go to a local show
Thanks for sharing this, starter
I FIND MYSELF AGREEING
@@Hatsworthful KINNIKU BUSTER
I never thought of it that way
Shoutouts to Smash Bros' handling of Incineroar being a master class of wrestling personas AND animation in general. If his command grab lands, but the opponent is interrupted through the armored hitstun, Incineroar just ends the animation himself with a cocky shrug to the player. You can even fail it by not doing the follow-up and they just non-lethally collide into each other, I love it.
Cool!
And that all his major attacks have him taunt after wards and react differently depending on if he hits or misses
Said collision even has a use as a side-switch, especially if Incineroar is recovering from off-stage.
If you botch the input incineroar botches too
Dr. Mario can do the F-5. So there's also him
The bombast of pro wrestling and the realm of exaggeration that is fighting games are like a match made in heaven (or should I say a dream match?). It makes sense that someone whose wrestling moves are played up for show would show up in a tournament where fireball-throwing martial artists and wannabe dictators with ancient demon energy are a common occurrence.
I interesetingly enough find Beowulf from skullgirls to be the most interesting version of this because not only does he announce his own moves (to hype up the crowd which cleverly plays into his hype mechanic as well) but even after performing some of his flashy enders he can be heard having concern for his opponent saying things like "are you ok?" because at the end of the day, his still a preformer before he is a... skullguy?
He literally is the most accurate example of a pro wrestler in a fighting game
well he was an actual wrestler so it makes perfect sense
I love the fact that most of his story mode is essentially him genuinely beating the shit of the rest of the cast while thinking it's all a show.
Aother fact that makes that better is that he's also the only character that is a completely normal dude. No weird semi-sentient weapons, powerful artifacts, super serums or parasites for Beowulf he's got a chair and he will kick your ass with it.
@@appelofdoom8211 cough, cough, *Grendel's severed arm* cough, cough
@@djpegao Ok fair enough but he only pulls that out for a couple moves while parasoul uses her weird implied to be sentient weapon for most of her moves. Plus the arm wasn't supernatural in any way until the end of wulfs story.
One of my favorite tropes for pro wrestlers in fiction is the way characters like to prove their strength was real. Pro wrestling is a work that makes them hold back for safety and a show, but when they're allowed in tournaments to face off with fighters they get to go all out and show just how crazy strong they are.
The fact that happened in real life in PRIDE FC and others, especially when Kazushi Sakuraba took on the Gracie family, is incredible. T-shirts that said "PRO-WRESTLING IS STRONGEST!" as guys like KS, Josh Barnet, and others went out there and became champions with Catch-style was amazing.
@@steveking1037 especially when Minoru Suzuki started pancrase with his buddy where they incorporated catch wrestling
@@soulindenial5001 Big time.
Strength is one thing but another is that wrestlers have absolutely insane cardio (apart from the ones who's only gimmick is mass and "ME STRONK"). I particularly like the story of the match between Bam Bam Bigelow (a dude close to 400lbs) and Lawrence Taylor (NFL linebacker), and how after the match Bam Bam (a "fake" athlete) was like "good match, dude" and Taylor (a professional "real" athlete) was on the brink of death from exhaustion. Strength is cool and all but you what you probably need even more of is endurance (both stamina and toughness) to be able to do this stuff several times a week for years.
@@abadenoughdude300 hell yeah, which is why I like pro wrestling a lot, you can be versatile, but be strong as fuck and have good cardio at the same time. Guys like mark Henry who was legit the world's strongest man at one point, was able to Dunk also for his size
One aspect of Pro wrestling that an outsider might not realize is how different various wrestling styles are. Each region of the world has it's own preferred style of pro wrestling and most of them are distinct enough that you could have multiple wrestling characters without them feeling repetitive.
That's one of the things that made me want to try Virtua Fighter 5. Wolf & El Blaze are extremely distinct from each other, despite both being pro wrestlers
Preach, Lucha Libre in Mexico really is in stark contrast to British catch as catch can, etc.
Though I've noticed that a lot of professional wrestling characters in fighting games tend to veer toward one of two concepts. They're either the very stereotypical acrobatic lucha libre fighter, or--no matter where they're supposed to be from--their wrestling tends to read more like Japanese puroresu than American pro wrestling. Not necessarily a bad thing, given that puroresu tends to look much more brutal and more like an actual fight, but it does sometimes stand out to me when a character is very clearly _not_ Japanese, and is meant to have a character and personality reflective of an American wrestler. I'd really love to see a character who wrestled like a British pro wrestler, where chain wrestling and submissions are a stronger facet of the style, though. That would be interesting.
@@Mokiefraggle probably because of the fact they tend to be made by Japanese developers. Pro Wrestling isn't really much of a style in western fighting games. So they're more likely to do Japanese style wrestling.
@@jonnyOysters I mean, American wrestling and gaijin wrestlers are pretty popular in Japan as well. Heck, a lot of guys have had a huge run in Japan just as much as they did in America: Hulk Hogan, Vader, Shelton Benjamin, Lance Archer, Hangman Page, Alex Shelley, Chris Benoit, even Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle. So it's not like the Japanese designers have never seen a person who wrestles in the American flash style, rather than King's Road or Strong Style. Heck, British wrestling and lucha libre are also amazingly popular in Japanese wrestling organizations, especially given New Japan Pro Wrestling's connections to Rev Pro and CMLL. So the knowledge base to draw from is potentially pretty vast.
The game devs do pretty darn well finding ways to interpret lucha libre, but they just never quite seem to catch onto how to translate American wrestling into the game in a way that doesn't just turn it into King's Road style (super-brutal head drops and the like), but hilariously transposed onto these bombastic, colorful, usually American characters. It's more amusing than anything, though as someone who enjoys puroresu and American wrestling, and can tell the difference, it stands out in a huge way.
The wrestlers from fighting games are LEGITIMATE SHOOTERS
Pro Wrestling in fighting games was treated a legitimate fighting arts which means the wrestler "Shoots" on the opponent and are skilled fighters. They execute their moves to hurt their opponent not for entertainment purposes but for legitimate competition. When we call someone in pro wrestling a "Shooter", it means that the wrestler have an experience in real fighting (For example : MMA, Competitive Grappling) and can legitimately fight someone.
If we take a look at Pro Wrestling, it contains a lot of moves from different martial arts and grappling arts that can be executed legitimately. Not to mention, Pro wrestling originally came from Catch Wrestling, a legitimate grappling arts that were hosted into carnivals. However, people did not like this "real" wrestling so they have came up with an idea by making it an acrobatic performance where wrestlers sells some fantastic high flying stunts to make it more exciting to people. They did not enjoy the "real" wrestling that was shown unto them so Catch Wrestling is forgotten and lost art because it evolves into "Entertainment Wrestling".
However, if we turn Pro Wrestling "Real" just like in fighting games, the wrestlers must train to "Shoot" which means executing their moves legitimately to hurt someone instead being a "Seller". We can translate a lot of moves that was made for entertainment from Suplexes, Holds and Chokes. We can see a lot of Pro Wrestling moves that were done in MMA and went perfectly! Someone even managed to pull a Boston Crab and was lead to victory. We can turn Pro Wrestling into real fighting method and it can be still seen as Pro Wrestling.
One of my favorite fun facts about fighting games and pro wrestling is that King's motion capture in the Tekken series was done for a number of years by Japanese pro wrestling legend Minoru Suzuki, who is widely known as one of the toughest bastards in the entire pro wrestling industry.
You mean the guy who looks like he eats people?
And I pioneer of MMA, making Pancrase in the early 90s.
Now I just want 1 match with Minoru Suzuki wearing King's tights.
I'm going to assume Meng/Haku didn't hear any of that (But honestly I agree I don't want murder grandpa to come after me).
In a way, grapplers in Tekken 7 do need their opponents to cooperate if they want to do their best moves. King's long chain throws, for example, can be broken at multiple opportunities, unlike a traditional juggle combo, which you just have to eat if you don't block the launcher. Obviously it's not the same, because your opponent in Tekken is trying to stop you and only "cooperates" by failing, but it is an interesting contrast. Also, chain throws take way longer to complete than combos of similar damage value, which sort of represents overacting and selling the hit. You might blink and miss a Perfect Electric Wind God Fist, but there's no way you won't see King turning his opponent into a human pretzel.
Tekken also does it really well with having a lot of the throw break/reversals be really exaggerated animations that would probably require both people to cooperate if it was done IRL.
@@Athenya the best one is lei, when he breaks chloe's generic throws, because he mimics her dancing cause he's a fan
And if they don't Cooperate,
Well a good stiff job will do
Iirc some grapplers can reverse some throws like breaking the legs
@@Necropantz His point was that losing the mind game in Tekken is functionally the same as co-operating in reality.
Making this entire video without including the tearful "It's Still Real To Me, Dammit!" Clip shows a level of restraint beyond mine.
The most consistent thing among fightan wrestlers, I think, is that they're all massive showboats. It makes sense, fundamentally: fighting games are already pretty much the same thing as pro wrestling. You're watching a fictional contest of strength featuring cool as hell but improbable moves, and fighters who get wrecked in the ring yet are always ready for the next fight as if the whole thing was staged. So to make them stand out, wrestlers tend to play up the entertainment angle really hard. They pose, they show off, they ham it up, they often bring in referees and audiences out of nowhere just to look like a boss. Even Smash, where the token wrestler is a giant cat, decided to add in a system where he literally taunts every time he lands a move.
The showboating is what turns "wrestling" into "pro wrestling".
That mostly likely because Street Fighter 2, the game that popularized the fighting game genre, was heavily influenced by anime. Wresting HAS always been anime.
@@warrenbradford2597 If I recall don't a lot of early battle anime take direct inspiration from the wrestling scene in Japan?
@@UsingGorillaLogic No, that just manga working in different format from western comics. Mangakas working in the fighting genre always have characters shout their special attacks to emphasize the effectiveness, the feel, of their attacks. This tradition gets copied in their anime adaptations. There is website that explains this trope.
@@warrenbradford2597 basically the wrestling industry and the manga industry independently coming to the same solution to same problem
For someone that’s not into wrestling that “pro wrestling for dummies” intro was rock solid! Amazing work as always
4:32 Did not think I would see Sans and Papyrus taking on Mr.L and Ness in the ring in a Sugarpunch video.
And I am so glad you mentioned the KOF All-Star x WWE crossover, that was so absurd that it just... worked.
Let us not forget The Rock talking shit to just about everyone, including Orochi of all characters. Or John Cena taking Shingo on as a protege after kicking Kyo's ass, diss rapping Iori, and singlehandedly turning NESTS into a benevolent organization that's curing diseases. OR, in probably the dumbest joke that only a hardcore fan could get, Seth Rollins rejecting to train in Kyokugenryu because he'd have to wear all white and he swore to never do that ever again (in reference to Vince McMahon never letting Seth wear his all white Summerslam 2015 attire after the event)
Quick bit of trivia, Saturday Night Slammasters/Muscle Bomber reveal that pro wrestling in the street fighter universe is real, full contact hand to hand combat even in the ring. Zangief, Alex, Mika, and Abel aren't modifying their moves for street fights, those ARE their moves
Also, seeing the Baz and Rage fighting brings me a nice smile
It is interesting to think of how many games tend to favor the big combos or precise attacks… and for some characters, they can get just as damage out just by grabbing the opponent and violently tossing them around like a rag doll and into the pavement.
Funny enough there are shoot wrestlers that are focus on striking more than grappling. Angel from KOF is a good example for that
That's part of what makes Grapplers and other "Big" characters feel so powerful. They don't need a twenty hit combo of intense fast moving hits to drain half a health bar. They just need to pick you up and slam you down to the floor once.
It's the old adage: in a race to do a math problem, the opponent needs to make hundreds of small equations. I, on the other hand, need only to make a huge long division once.
You just described Potemkin.
Hugo wants to know your location.
Loved watching Woolie slamming Pat's head in with the hood of car. You guys are a really underrated channel. I salute you.
Bruh I'm always here for a sbf reference.
I went back to make sure I was seeing it right and got confirmation with the El Woolio xD
RAGE of Africa vs The Baz was also a hype match until the Rustled Gorillas jumped The Baz.
dont forget the that was a tag team match, el woolio and zach!
Can't believe people still remember sbf
I always love to see Wrestling used as a real fighting style,
Sekibayashi Jun from Kengan Asura is awesome.
Wrestling is a real fighting style. Pro wrestling isn't.
There are not enough words in this world to describe how entertaining Jun Sekibayashi is.
That was the heart of Inokiism in Japan.
The closest direct version of Pro Wrestling is Catch-As-Catch-Can Pro Wrestling.
Dude's fighting style is literally just kayfabe. it's the best
"Wrestling is also about the THIRD DIMENSION!" That fight he had against the fighter who was using Ancient Sumo was so good.
As a fan of pro wrestling the quote “Pro Wrestling is an acrobatic performance designed to *resemble* a battle” is probably as spot on as you can get.
Grapplers in fighting games usually have grabs that are supposed to look and feel like they really hurt, so it makes sense that Pro Wrestling would be a perfect match
7:42 "What if the Undertaker just had powers?"
What are you trying to imply there, mister?
I like how we're 3 episodes into this series and have only covered one actual combat sport so far
based
That's because combat sports will never be as cool as theatrical martial arts. Even in the late 80's when NHB and other organizations tried to make their own irl "Bloodsport" it turned out muay boran and dirty kickboxing obsoleted all other martial arts by simply having one hyper-efficient counter to every possible opponent approach.
Then the organizations pushing this new sport added rules to target dirty fighting or to protect grapplers and MMA was born. But even so, it's not a syncretist approach to combat sports bringing together the best of all disciplines. It's just kickboxers training some bjj to protect from takedowns, or bjj/judo fighters training some kickboxing to protect from striking. TKD, karate, lethwei, wrestling, savate, sambo, etc. never show up in the octagon anymore.
I hope Drunken Fist gets picked next.
@@Stroggoii there have been multiple champions the last 30 years who had a wrestling base, and a handful of Sambo guys, but otherwise, yeah, the others are super rare.
@@Stroggoii it depends on ruleset, really: ring, mats, what is allowed etc., octagon fighting has no ring outs but soft enough mats, so you get half of matches ending up huddling in the corner. Unwatchable. A fight with ring and ropes will have less grappling, ironically, and actual grappling combat sports have circles or mats you can't fall from, but also no cage for the lovey dovey yaoi hugging MMA always does. And anything on hard floors will have basically no ground jiujitsu stuff because who the hell wants to roll on asphalt? Whoever falls, loses or jumps back up.
Fun fact King was mocapped by japanese wrestler Minoru Suzuki in Tekken 3, which is the reason King wears a shirt rather than his wrestling attire as it was Suzuki's entrance attire in real life.
As someone who loves Pro Wrestling and Fighting Games, I always love to see how some Wrestling moves will translate into fighting games
One example of this is with the Tombstone Piledriver, which looks like a devastating move on screen and in a game like Tekken 7 where King and Armor King do the Tombstone, it feels more devastating taking into account the camera shaking and the sound effect
One other thing that I love about Pro Wrestling is that a form of art, not only are you seeing two people fighting in the ring, but they are also telling you a story with their body languages and with that body language, you get to know more about them as a character whether they are a Face (Good Guy) or Heel (Bad Guy)
For example, Heels tend to cheat a lot during fights, one example of this is a Poison Mist, which is a common move use by some wrestlers that they would drink something that’s green and then would spit that into their opponents face while the Referee isn’t looking, this move can be seen use by Armor King in Tekken, which is a perfect move for him to use since he is consider as heel wrestler in the Tekken Universe
I just love when I get to see 2 things I love complement each other so well
Great video
You can see armor king being the heel in how brutal some attacks are compared to kings version of them, like his shining wizard, giant swing, jaguar bomb, qcb1+2 etc.
I mean the guy literally has a win pose where he kicks the already defeated opponent in the head lol
Which is why I feel Tekken did it best with the wrestling characters, even king doing okadas move in Tekken 7
Have you ever seen the mobile game WWE Immortals?
Oh, so that's what Raiden from KoF/Fatal Fury spits.
Yoshimitsu, and, for some reason, NINA, of all people, do poison mist in Tekken! Also Williams sisters do some pro wrestling locks, and for some weird reason, Bryan Fury, a kickboxer, has most of his throws straight from pro wrestling, with neckbreakers, DDTs and suplexes. Lee Chaolan too.
Pro Wrestlers are 80% of the time my mains in fighting games so I appreciate this.
Hoping for Jiu Jitsu next!
Wrestlers get the best grab combo's.
I'm praying for the day I get to play as a fighter who can perform a de la riva sweep - to berimbolo - to rear naked choke finisher!
It's amusing to learn how so many aspects (moves, characters) of fighting games come STRAIGHT from pro wrestling with no subtlety. There's actual pro wrestling characters, and then there's stuff like the magitek soldier Potemkin's signature technique being an Argentine backbreaker. There's also something ironic about how I still unconsciously identify pro wrestling as the de facto "fictional" martial art of fighting games--it's not like it's the most impractical martial art popular in games.
The only part of the video that disappointed me was the absence of Alex powerbombing the 30 meter tall and 200 ton giant robot Gold Lightan in Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom. Absolutely mesmerizing.
There was a video from Polygon that went into just how much pro wrestling influenced video game fighting for the same reasons stated in this video: readability.
@@KryptikM3 Just watched it, and it was a great video. Thanks for the mention!
There's a whole lot more to discover between real-life wrestling translating into fighting games. The influences especially are a treat for any wrestling fan to discover. There's Rey Mysterio being the inspiration for Virtua Fighter's El Blaze, World Heroes's Muscle Power originally looking exactly like Hulk Hogan until they had to shave his 'stache, and then there's All Japan Pro Wrestling legends Mitsuharu Misawa and Kenta Kobashi having their iconic finishing moves be integrated into move lists.
God, now I want to make a video lol
And Ramon owes almost his entire move set to the original Tiger Mask
Heck, it's even more interesting when you consider real-life wrestling taking inspiration from video games. Whether that be from references on their attires or in their movesets. I feel Kenny Omega is a prime example of that. The guy's an active fighting game enthusiast, and has named several moves after video game characters, such as the Dr. Wily Bomb and his finishing move, The One-Winged Angel, which you saw him perform throughout this video. He even occasionally performs Hadoukens in the ring. Even in his entrances he often references several games, including Street Fighter when he cosplayed as Akuma, down to two separate incidents involving Undertale. Once on his final NJPW appearance when he came out to a theme and video package composed by Toby Fox, and the second on a Halloween episode of AEW Dynamite when he came out to Megalovania, and dressed up as Sans himself.
@@thebombkidbomb Yes, I am very well aware of Kenny Omega lol. Getting to play the role of Cody in his reveal trailer while goddamn Xavier Woods is the one on the phone in that. On top of that New Day vs. The Elite spectacle at E3
Wrestling in fighting games makes me both very happy and very sad. Mostly because I love wrestling, but I rarely enjoy the gameplay style of grapplers.
The only one I really vibed with is Beowulf in Skullgirls.
However, I always enjoy watching a a nice wrestling move in a game. As silly as I think Alex's stance is in SF5, all of his grapples just look absolutely amazing.
I LOVE playing as Tina in DOA, as she got those ground, juggle and air throws incorporated into combos... in Tekken tho, good luck remembering King's inputs!
One thing that also helps is the fact that fighting games are influenced by the Japanese Pro-Wrestling scene which has a higher emphasis on real Martial Arts techniques just more fantastical. Plus early Pancrase which was basically a competition that asked the question what if the competition Ruleset pro wrestlers pretend to compete under was actually real.
KOF All-star's Crossover list is absolutely insane. You can put anime characters, WWE Wrestlers and virtually every big name in Fighting Game history (save for a Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct and Virtua Fighter Rep) in a team. There's nothing like putting Heihachi Mishima, Ryu and Terry Bogard on a team, getting help from Sol Badguy, Haomaru and one of the many Dead or Alive women in the game.
Oh yeah, excellent video! Always fun to see someone who isn't familiar with Pro Wrestling immerse himself and others in some knowledge.
I think the best part of the WWE/KoF All Star crossover event was just how much fun they were clearly having with it. They leaned into the shared names for characters, character appropriate reactions to Rock's shenanigans and catchphrases, even Kofi breaking the fourth wall properly and realizing 'Oh shit, I'm in a King of Fighters game!'
Dude when i first picked up Tekken 7 i was so hyped and surprised at the fact they had a NJPW crossover and that King could do the Rainmaker. I dont use any other costume but the Okada one
And just like Okada, he makes that otherwise laughably simple move look terrifying; like he's trying to rip his opponent's freaking head off with his forearm.
@@EmperorPylades two moves that define pro wrestling to me aren't insane piledrivers and vertical suplexes but a clothesline and elbow drop. If you can make these look good, you're a good wrestler. Anyone who can do a convincing lariat like Rainmaker or Ax Bomber into a finisher is automatic GOAT, and same with elbow drops.
@@KasumiRINA reminds me of a comment from William Regal about his time working with Triple H in NXT. At tryouts, he didn't care if you could land a Canadian Destroyer from the top rope with a 360 spin while whistling God Save the Queen; if you couldn't lock up convincingly, he checked out on the spot.
You're damn right that the basics matter. When I watch wrestling, while I might appreciate the skill and athleticism on display, I want to suspend my disbelief and pretend that what I'm seeing is real. And moves that don't require heavy and obvious co-operation are what make that work. Though I will note, while Okada makes the Rainmaker look good (That downward follow-through is great), so much of a move like a Ripcord Lariat comes down to how the other guy sells it.
"What if the Undertaker just _had powers?"_ never fails to get me.
He literally had them in kayfabe too so it just makes that statement funnier
I just love how you transitioned us into the montage; was like for a brief moment, you were deep into the understanding of wrestling fans. ...or at the very least, you really love the powerful spin fighting games place upon wrestling moves.
King is hands down the best wrestling character in any fighting game history. Nothing is gonna top him. His appearance and moveset is completely unmatched.
t8 king specially is the hypest mf from any fighting game. Dude has the charisma with his showboating.
also gief sf6 got a great glow up in this side aswell, and his theatrics now are so good that in a local tournament here, the whole crowd stood up cheering as his "loyal fans" when the guy playing gief managed to hit the level 3 in a crazy hard read (got the jp teleporting), and most of the audience weren't even cheering on the guy since he was from another state, it was just the fact the character now has this level of charisma and hype power.
@@Canalbirutain T8 wasn’t there a moment where King just growled and hyped up an entire army to keep fighting?
@@Perdix64 literraly that lmao i fucking love that sequence. Dude comes, grows while giving batista bombs and atitude adjustments and everyone else were like "yeah we can do this!"
THANK you for explain the difference in “Fake” & “Staged”, “Pre-Determined”, & just add in “Scripted” (which is the other two combined really. Lol!
As someone who doesn’t know much about wrestling…well done!
Wrestling has consistently been on of my favorite fighting styles in fighting games. It just felt badass to slam the life out of opponents with all kinds of techniques.
Using Asuka as the Jujitsu example is surprising because her family's fighting style is actually based on Aikido.
King is a love letter to pro wrestling. so many actual moves. so fun to hit. the moment i saw King do a shining wizard (some of my fav wrestlers use it) i fell in love
This is the 2nd of these in a row where I felt the anime Kengan Ashura has interesting things to say on the topic. It provides a great illustration of what a Sumo FG character might look like, and also spends a lot of time on pro wrestling as a fictional fighting art.
Shoot wrestling exist to confirm that an unscripted pro-wrestling match is much likely to end any man's career.
Spider-Man does this in Lucha-Libre for his Crimefighting duty.
Pro Wrestling: theatrical fight, popular in Mexico (lucha libre) and USA
Olympic Wrestling (Freestyle or Greco-Roman): a legit martial art, very popular in Mixed Martial Arts
When you said "The Undertaker has powers" it made me think of Midway's WWF Wrestlemania - a Mortal Kombat like fighting game with side scrolling beat 'em up style movement where each character had special moves, combos and epic MK uppercuts, alongside the classic wrestling grapples.
I find it interesting that the Mortal Kombat series may have had characters with wrestling moves, but hasn't had one that feels quite like a full on wrestler until Geras in MK11. I guess it makes sense because MK is more about heroes fighting to protect the world from villains rather than fighters of different disciplines gathering to test their strength.
MK had Jax, and in MK10 several had full-on wrestling throws and throw combos. Backbreakers, spinebusters, catapults etc.
@@KasumiRINA Yes, MK has wrestling moves, but there's no wrestler character.
Jax may have the wrestler variation, but he always felt like more of a boxer than a wrestler.
After seeing Zangief on SF6 with attention, i realized that he has a body slam move where the animation depicts Zangief throwing their opponents to the ground WHILEST he is holding back their neck, assuring they safely take the hit with the back and not with their head or neck.
Its such a great detail, because of course and as stated in the video, wrestling is dangerous and both wrestlers work to not actually damage the guy taking the bump, but also helps the psychology of the match, by repeatedly punshing a particular part of the body, you make more credible the match, instead of just throwing random attacks at random parts of the body. I wonder if that particular part of pro wrestling translates to fighting games, the most i can think is how pro wrestling grabs on fighting games tend to punish the head and neck, because of course they would, even if of course its fictional and there is 0 danger of making someone land on their neck full force, it's still commonly perceipt as deadly.
knowing wwe they are gonna copyright this brilliant video just cus of those clips and specifically those fantastic chair shots from a now dead and buried era of great wrestling.
Pro wrestling is interesting, especially in fighting games since it originated from Catch Wrestling as a legitimate submission grappling art that people still practice today. I'd almost wish there were more submissions in some of these movesets
Hard to do submission mechanics in videogames. In most fighting games you just have this unrealistic thing with immediate arm snaps and even neck breaks with opponent shrugging them off... I wish for a slower, resistance based grapples, but you only find those in wrestling or MMA games not fighters.
@@KasumiRINA fair, but I'm ok with the concessions if that's what's necessary. Like Goh Hinogami from Virtua Fighter has sick looking submissions, unrealistic joint popping or not.
Gotta Love WRESTLING and them WRESTLERS in Fighting games. My favorite grappler Super is king of DINOSAURS lvl2 Hurricane Smash. All WRESTLERS in FGs are pretty similar to ARTEMIS REIGAN in BAKI. No longer have to hold back and show their Full power. Probably the Closest real WRESTLING feels to an FG is the Hell in a Cell matches.
The montage was SO GOOD. And I think you nailed it: Wrestling in video games is what our minds eye see pro wrestling as. Good stuff!
God this missed such a good opportunity to show the mother of all extreme wrestling: the Kinnikuman series. It is exactly everything being said about wrestling in fighting games but cranked up to 12.
This includes: A wrestler turning a grounded strangle hold into ripping the opponents whole torso off (later censored into twisting his torso in ungodly ways and breaking every bone until he gets turn into ramen), landing a buster move with the opponents head on the top part of the poles the hold the ropes (my wrestling lingo is horribly rusty), a double sided clothesline that rips faces off and a wrestler literally deteriorating into nothing as he does his last signature move and ending with only his head doing one final move before passing away.
I just want to see Zangief SPD'ing a F16 into the ground and say "THE SKIES ARE PROTECTED"
Can I just say, I'm very happy about the phrasing used to describe wrestling. Too often it's just called "fake" and people forget the athleticism.
It’s always exciting to see pro wrestling interpreted in fighting games. A shame that Rainbow Mika probably won’t come back to SF6 anytime soon considering that her biggest cheerleader (Ono) left Capcom. Maybe Zangief can double down on the wrestler part of his character to get away from his patriotic aspects after…recent world events.
Also, loving the use of ARMS music.
They have to bring Mika back considering what’s going on.
Or if anything…if Zangief is too current…why not Biff Slamkovish
@@kyokugenryudisciple9349 What’s going on that will make Mika have to return?
I don't think Gief is going anywhere. Street Fighter 5 already pushed the Russia out of Zangief as much as possible (Compare him in SF4, where russia was 50% of his character and wrestling was the other half, to SF5 where his schtick is "Muscle Power" and he never once mentions his country)... actually now that I think of it Zangief is the *only* character that really waved his flag in previous interations of Street Fighter. Guile might wear the flag, but I don't think he ever says "america" or "my country" or anything like that. The only two characters I can think of that mention their nation of origin that *aren't* zangief are Rufus and El Fuerte.
Dude, bring in Haggar. Its about damn time he made his debut in SF.
I think it's too stupid for Capcom to not add characters introduced in SFV even if it's a couple of characters.
Though knowing Capcom they might do it.
Pro wrestling & fighting games are always a fun combination to see ‘em together!!!
i usually main grapplers in fighting games, just cuz i like command grabs. this was a good video, i liked it
Oooh, I can't wait to see the episode on Pinguaquan. It's not very famous among martial arts enthusiasts but I really like the flowing motions and beautiful stances it includes.
This was a fun look at pro wrestling. It would be cool if at some point you did a follow up that focuses on Lucha Libre, which is technically also Pro Wrestling but with stronger focuses on acrobatics and substantially different astetic to what people usually associate with Pro wrestling
As a professional animator for fighting games. These videos are fekn AMAZING!! The video was greatly informational on stuff that i just would never of thought of, like why theyre actions are more expressive or stomping the ground when attacking.
Although kinda wish you listed all the characters you know of that use these techniques or atleast characters you used for examples. To help for further research, which was the main reason i found this video.
All Japan Pro-Wrestling in the 90's had a deal with Sega and All Japan wrestler Jim Steele would play "Wolf Hawkfield" from 97 to 01.
6:30 Aerial Piledriver (or Borscht Dynamite) has to be one of my favorite animations from a fighting game ever, the way Zangief punches his opponent and uses that same torque to spin and rise through the air to then slam them on the ground with the spinning piledriver is just so satysfying, the camera angles, sound and sfx really help selling how strong of a move it is.
As a fan of fighting games and wrestling, I appreciate that you tackled this topic and I think you did a good job of highlighting the appeal of both real life and virtual wrestling.
Great video, glad to see all the Ladiva love
I love pro wrestling. The bombast, the larger than life personas, the incredible stunts, the stories that can sometimes be told in just a match between them. There are all kinds of wrestlers, if you want something grounded, something almost cartoonish, acrobatics, etc.
One of the guys who represents and who I'd call someone who lives wresting is William Regal. A British wrestling veteran, the wrestles the old catch-wrestling, which was a carnival event where these strongmen would challenge the audience to grapple for a while. It's not flashy, but their strength was the real deal. William Regal used this and simple strikes and grapples, often fighting dirty or brutal; one of his finishers was a simple running knee to the head, or a punch with hidden brass knuckles. Being a heel (evil guy), you loved to hate him, for being an uptight snooty Englishman, or a coward, or a figure of authority few respected.
For anyone who likes manga and anime, Kengan Ashura has Jun Sekibayashi, a massive wrestler who is pretty much a love letter to what makes pro wrestling so good to many.
Oh, hey! Nice to see another Regal fan in the wild!
British wrestling on the whole is such a strikingly different beast from American pro wrestling...the intensity is very different, and the way the wrestlers fight and move...in general, all professional wrestling styles are just so different: lucha libre versus American pro wrestling, Japanese Strong Style versus King's Road Style, British professional wrestling, each one has a very different way of telling its story, and it can also be fascinating to see how they blend and interact. Seeing what happens when you drop a wrestler trained in the British style into a Japanese puroresu federation, for instance (such as one of my favorites, Zack Sabre Jr. Highly submission-focused British catch-wrestling guy suddenly meets Strong Style. Great to watch.)
@@Mokiefraggle It was a treat to see Zack Sabre Jr. fight Negro Navarro. They had an amazing match where they tried to outmaneuver each other. Amazing match.
As a pro Wrestling “Mark” & a fighting game lover , I love this video man
dont shoot yourself into a work into a shoot brother HH
A small correction on the powerbomb thing. Wrestlers usually DON'T let go to let their opponent so they have more control over the slam so they don't accidentally drop the guy on his head and/or shoulders. A good example of that happening is Brock Lesnar to Hardcore Holly, Holly couldn't quite get himself up for the move and Brock dropped him on his head accidentally. This broke Holly's neck. The example you gave was of Kevin Nash's jackknife powerbomb (one of the most popular variations of the move,) it was unique in that he DID let go and dropped his opponent half way through the powerbomb. It was in fact more dangerous to do things that way and it really was a testament to Nash's skill in delivering the move that more people weren't hurt by it. If you want better examples of more traditional powerbombs see how Walter, Keith Lee, Kane, JBL, and Kevin Owens do their own versions of the move as a few examples.
4:58
Glad to see Max being featured in an A.B.I. video.
I think the video was definitely worth it, you explained the basics enough, and as a very visual fighting style to begin with, simply letting some of the moves speak for themselves was worth it.
I think one of the things worth pointing out is the fact that pro wrestling is so pervasive in video games, and fighting games in particular, that it bleeds into non-wrestling characters movesets. as well. Look at Ralf and Clark from King of Fighters. While Clark's style is very much pro wrestling, Ralf (who in earlier games shared palette swap duties with Clark) still has a wrestling move or two despite being much more focused on strikes and punches. There's Bryan Fury from Tekken, who despite having a brutal strike based style with some muay thai influence, still ends up busting out a spinning diamond cutter and a sleeper suplex. Many characters that no real business doing overt pro wrestling moves (especially moves that couldn't charitably be considered derived from something like jiujitsu instead) still busting them out, because they imply power and impact, and have high readability in fast-paced fighting environments.
Pro wrestling isn't impressive for the competition, but for the amazing acting in the fights
Damn I thought this was gonna be ACTUAL wrestling
Fantastic video and great style to focus on. And I gotta give props for showing the BAZ, can you feel the storm!? ITS COMING!!!!
Was hoping there'd be more on King here, but I enjoyed the video. It's worth noting that the motion capture for King for the original Tekken game was done by legendary pro wrestler Minoru Suzuki.
the good thing in wrestling games is that you can plot in your head that its real
So this will be a bit of a negative comment.
The video started really well and you explained what pro-wrestling was really well however when it came to pro-wrestlers in fighting games the video became a massive dud. Maybe it was my expectations after the sumo video but I thought you were going to list off the various wrestlers throughout the fighting games, talk about how they have different types of wrestlers ie luchador and regular wrestlers and then delve into these characters stories and if they have any similarities or differences like you did with the sumos. Then I thought you may even rank them again or give a brief overall on any differences you think should happen with wrestlers in fighters, if any.
Like when you get on to grapplers you literally only mention one character by name and just show clips of others doing their grapples. Like you could have done a whole 4 minute monologue on Ladiva alone and how her wrestling factors into her presentation and gameplay most noticeably through her super but instead you just show a 4 second clip of it and are like "yep that's enough". While I can understand tis next point might not be strictly relevant but both snk and capcom produced wrestling games in the 90s and capcom even made a sequel to theirs which turned it into a wrestling themed fighting game (slam masters 2)
I've read your pinned comment and I have to say like I started when you talked about what pro-wrestling was you did a really good job at explaining it and developing the context for the video and you say you were most interested in how they make "fake" moves look real in fighters, however even at doing that I feel like was done wrong by just showing a 30 second montage of moves
I hope with style selects going forward you treat it more similar to the sumo video than this one
As a wrestling fan myself, I found this vídeo well done, props to you Man, I love your video.
So. Much. Baz! Also Max and the Zaibatsu!
Setting all that aside, great job! That's pretty much the best and most concise explanation about the whole shebang here that I've seen.
So hapy to see Zubaz on a vid and also the guys!. Didn't even know about that trick about wrestlers kicking the mat. Very interesting video.
Great video! That moment you linked pro wrestling to games was impactful, really made me think
I see you used a lot of footage from Two Best Friends for the video game portion. Woolie watched this video on his latest react stream and noticed it almost immediately because of Zubaz. Love to see my favorite former channel still have groundswell after years have passed.
Man I would love a real ass pro wrestling fighting game where everyone is basically a grappler. Pro wrestling feels like it was made for fighting games and there’s so much you can do with it. You could have A heel or face Groove system or a system where taunts Inflict debuffs and grant buffs to your own character.
SOMEONE PLEASE MAKE THIS GAME
Karate would be a good one to cover in the future. Can't go wrong with knifehands and extreme tile punches
Great vid about the grapplers, I've loved them in gaming due to over dramtic flair of the moves. it just fits fighting games so well
hell alot of the more bombastic wrestling moves most grapplers have come from the kinnikuman series
if you wanna see how moves translated to be "real" would be
check out some videos of the games Kinnikuman muscle fight (2D) or Kinnikuman muscle grand prix 2 (3D)
its a classic shonen jump series that really should be brought to the forefront more often
In the example footage, Kevin Nash so obviously tosses Benoit during his powerbomb because Nash's Jackknife Powerbomb was really a release powerbomb. In other versions, the person performing the move will either keep their hold or will shift their hands to make it look like they are further "shoving" the opponent downward (without exerting more force). Indeed, that is how moves like the pinning powerbomb (powerbomb transitioning directly into a pin attempt) and the triple powerbomb (three consecutive powerbombs) are performed.
Of course you also have "fun" stuff like the Ganso Bomb, where you just drop your opponent on their neck and hope they don't end up paralyzed or dead. Yes, the result of a botched powerbomb attempt (Kawada trying to powerbomb Misawa despite having a broken arm) became an *intentional* move in future matches. An important thing to remember about pro-wrestling (and stunt work in general) is that "professional" doesn't necessarily mean "safe".
I really like these videos, this one made me no joke want to look into wrestling moments to see what its all about, thx for making it!
If only fighting game fans loved wrestling characters as much as they claim to love wrestling.
Easy to tell you had fun making this video, really well done. Just subscribed
Giving a thumbs up but sad to not see Wolf from Virtua Fighter and Bass from Dead or Alive. My only other complaint is that the video wasn't longer lol.
As someone who got back into wrestling during the pandemic i really enjoyed this video, particularly the succinct rundown of what pro wrestling is but from a quote/unquote outsider's lense. And no, that's not a DDT, i believe that's a take on a bulldog
At what timestamp? I saw a lot of snapmares at one point, and some signature moves, but which part are you talking about?
@@steveking1037 1:49 that's Dominic Mysterio on.... I think that's Austin Theory. I don't watch WWE outside of TH-cam, but anyways that looks like a bulldog to me
@@yosoyflips Spot on.
The thing I love about the wrassler archetype in fighting games is when they hit the move mid fight and you wince a little like ouch, makes you kinda realize men and women do this daily as a job. These moves if used correctly can do damage to someone.
There's actually a sub section to pro wrestling where the style is exclusively two dudes having a fight just in pro wrestling terms. If anyone is interested in that hard hitting just beat you up in fight wincing style I suggest looking up either Minoru Suzuki or Katsuyori Shibata or Bryan Danielson. All skilled lethal in that style.
Sounds like you're talking about something like Catch wrestling, which is in part as close to real deal wrestling as possible under the pro wrestling umbrella. Part of it too is that, in the old carney days, you had to be expected to take control in case an opponent got too big for the britches and legitimately wrestle them down so they don't ruin the whole show. The pedigree of the catch style comes from that, folks with legitimate grappling with real-life non-worked capacity, just adapted to work in pro wrestling theatricals. Catch Wrestling is a huge influence on the grappling done in MMA, alongside jiujitsu.
You're only half correct at 2:10 & 5:57 if we are including japanese strong style wrestling. Strong style wrestlers are hitting each other full contact & full force, actually applying submissions & slamming their opponent onto the mat hard, even on the back of their necks sometimes (see Misawa's tiger driver 91, for example).
I think you're mixing up Strong Style with Shoot Style. Shoot style is going for maximum realism similar to shoot fighting, and including very realistic strikes and submissions with the proper force. Strong Style is still worked, but working a stiffer (read: less worked, but still worked) style. The move you point out, Tiger Driver '91, yes, it's a much more dangerous version of the original move, and dumps opponents on their necks, but they still try and take precautions. The actual lift for the move still probably would require the opponent to push himself up into position, and they work on their neck strength as well as how to tuck their body in enough to minimize the damage. They're still dangerous because you're still just minimizing the damage, not negating it, but it's still not the full real deal.
@@KryptikM3 I know that strong style is partly worked but the strikes are still at full force, just see Suzuki or Ishii or both. (Also, the opponent doesn't have to lift themselves into position for the Tiger Driver, I've done it to someone in a fight.)
I just love how pro wrestling is shown in gaming and manga/anime.
Still performers at heart but removing the restriction of making sure the other guy survives your attack
It makes it much more endearing.
Kengan Ashura with Sekibayashi is amazing! Showing the essence of Pro Wrestling. King being so show off-y yet agile and powerful is frankly great
Great explanation!
A Jiu Jitsu video would be sick!
As a crazy wrestling nerd, this is 100% spot on. Absolutely killed it. Glad to have found this series
"why can't I see John Cena" that was hilarious 😂😂
Pro-Wrestling has always been connected since the early days of fighting games, a lot of fighting game characters are base off real life pro-wrestlers that wrestle in various different promotions.
That's not bad for someone who isn't into pro wrestling. There is at least one thing missing and that is the different styles of pro wrestling.
*Catch Wrestling* - Also known as Catch as Catch Can, this is the OG of professional wrestling. In fact, a large part of it comes from Catch Wrestling. In fact, Catch Wrestling became popular in other countries - for example, in Japan it was introduced and after wrestlers took down big time judo stars, it became part of the culture and became what is now today known as **puroresu** (or 'Strong Style' as it is known here). This is going to be the main style of wrestling you will see in most grapplers out there.
*Puroresu* - The Japanese take on Catch Wrestling, the biggest differences here are the 'fighting spirit' each wrestler has; the strength of hitting (watch a NJPW match one time.. when they say 'full contact', they MEAN it); the lack of angles and gimmicks that you see in most pro wrestling organizations today and a very healthy respect for MMA (in fact, many wrestlers in Puroresu are trained in other martial arts). Armor King from Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection is your best example of the puroresu style today.
*Lucha Libre* - The Mexican (and in term, Latin American) style of pro wrestling, this style is known for the masks the wrestlers wear, the quick rapid fire moves and holds and many high flying attacks. The masks are extremely important in Lucha Libre, so there is one extremely important match here - Luchas de Apuestas ("Matches with Wagers"). You or your opponent can either put their mask or their hair on the line and the loser... well, you can kind of figure the outcome from there. The best known examples of Lucha Libre in fighting games are El Fuerte, Tizoc, La Mariposa and El Blaze (and before anyone mentions it - yes, King and Armor King are Luchadors, but the style of pro wrestling they use isn't Lucha Libre. King falls in line with more of what you see in modern pro wrestling organizations while, as mentioned before, Armor King is based in puroresu)
*Hardcore* - Also known as 'Garbage Wrestling', you can pretty much throw out the rule books here. Anything goes, anything can be used in this street fight. In fact, hardcore style has been in a fighting game before - the Deathmatch mode in World Heroes. Traditionally, a deathmatch is violent, bloody, nasty spectacle in which both fighters will bleed and bleed a lot. In World Heroes, the violence is still there, but it was extremely toned down. Still, you have Needle Matches (two giant spiked presses on each side of the arena), Fire and Electric Matches (the ring ropes are on fire or can shock you), land mines, oil and even a match for your hair (which falls more into Lucha Libre territory)
The only edit I'd make is to differentiate "shoot style/strong style" from "poruresu"... "poruresu" is just "pro" (poru) "wrestling" (resu), an Engrish pronunciation of ANY pro wrestling in Japan. The hard hitting strong style grew out of "shoot style" (legit) matches, like Shooto and Pancrase. NJPW has a lot of wrestlers that closely approximate what would be a legitimate fight, but they still have others who, aside from their penchant for head drops, are very similar to Western-style pro wrestlers.
You can also dive into the history of catch in the legitimate "hooks" (pain compliance and submission holds) early pro wrestlers employed to either make sure their partner in the match stuck to the script, or would use to put away the rubes in carney "last ____ in the ring with ...." wagers.
Thanks for this info.
when i first picked up fighting games(my first two were skull girls and tekken) i gravitated towards Beowulf and King, so I thought, hey guess im a grappler.
I then went to Street fighter and tried Zangief, didnt vibe, so i stopped trying.
Came back later and really thought about what i liked about my other characters, so I tried R.Mika. Vibed a lot better, still not a fan of Street fighter, but now i know its not grapplers i like, but (pro)wrestlers.
The point im trying to make is basically pro wrestlers king, beo, wolf, have a different feel to the 'traditional' grapplers like gief or guilty gear guy, please dont kill me fpr not remembering his name nor feeling like looking it up.
Time to try out Virtua Fighter.
Couldn't agree more. Wrestling isn't real, but it's not fake, either. They're some of, if not _the,_ greatest athletes on the planet.
Historical wrestling is generally recognized as the most practical martial art for actually defending yourself. Most all brawls end up with two men on the ground grappeling each other.
Saw that quick peek at Rumble Roses. Loved that game! Haha!
Strange, I thought, that Asuka uses Aikido style. I mean, her alternate costume (at least in Tekken 6) was actually aikido fighters' outfit with hakama pants. More you know.
You know, I actually practiced Jiu Jitsu and also thought Asuka was Aikido. Although tbf Jiu Jitsu is a fairly slow style meant to restrict and supress stronger opponents with the least effort possible, it's an fairly self-defense oriented martial art. Hell even the sport aspect of it is more centered on scoring through proper technique usage rather than takedowns/submissions. The style is so defensive that you only get to subdue your opponent if they fuck up royally or have a massive gap in strength (and I mean MASSIVE).
Asuka is definitely using Aikido. That's not jiu-jitsu, that's Aikido.
Asuka's canon fighting style is Aiki-jūjutsu, so she uses both aikido and jūjutsu
The problem with aikido in fighting games is that there is really no offense. So, most aikido looks like a combination of judo, jiujitsu, and aikido. The most famous aikido practitioner in FGs would probably be Geese, but it’s clear he has some other influences. Asuka’s got probably the clearest aikido inspired moves though, as her stances are made to lead into throwing the opponent to the side.
Keep in mind, Aikido isn't a real martial art... it would be like having a fighter use Tai Chi. Jujutsu, the original Japanese version, had a lot of the nasty little things you actually see in games or movies attributed to "Aikido."