The dramatic scene was somewhat ruined by the fact that before executing Tullius, both Galmar and Ulfric first had to spend 10 seconds aggressively walking into him.
Easy to say that when you've already won... Ulfric talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk. He surrendered to the Thalmor during the Great War and did give them secret information that he believed could have led to the destruction of the capital, he surrended after the Markarth Incident, and he surrended when Tullius captured him in Helgen. He is full of shit
The Empire couldn't even take on the Thalmor when they were fully united lmaooo and the Dragonborn wouldn't make a difference at least lore wise because he can be killed just like any other mortal. No. We need to see the Thalmor go through with their plan.
@@NinjaWiener Okay now. Explain how will the Dragonborn die? The fucker can deal with a world ending threat so I really doubt that the Thalmor has any chances.
Its weird how on both endings of the war, theres no super strong soldiers there to guard the generals/leaders of each army. Its really only a 3 v 2 instead of like.... 3-4 against 5 strong Legionnaires/Stormcloaks that rival or surpass your current level.
I mean the player counts as a super strong soldier, besides both sides remaining fighters would have been defeated in the city or ran off into thr wilderness
I very rarely see people talk about how amazing a character Rikke is. (Maybe I just don’t participate enough). People always talk about balgruuf, but I think Rikke is about as important, and is only really cast aside because she’s kinda an asshole to you for awhile (and she nearly gets you killed at the start for no good reason.) She is one of the only characters to me that embodies the “greater good” mentality. She doesn’t fight in Skyrim because it’s her job, or else she would have given up like Tullius. She doesn’t fight in Skyrim because she doesn’t understand the nords, she mourns Ulfrics death and always stick to her nord culture. She just truly believes the empire is the best path for Skyrim and the world. She also embodied my opinions on the conflict, so maybe I’m bias, but: Hates Thalmor Honorable Respects the brave Understands nords better than any imperial (just look at the jagged crown quest)
"she nearly gets you killed at The start for no good reason" A common belief to be demolished, that captain isn't Rikke...who's a Nord, the other an Imperial (race, not only faction)...even 'body size' and height differ...and if fleeing with Ralof you've to kill her to collect the key of keep internal gates, how can her be Rikke if afterwards you spot RIKKE itself at Castle Dour?
@@hyejinmoon4882 He forces you to do work for his court (finding the dragon stone, fighting the dragon) before he'll even read your military message. And only makes you a thane after everyone knows you're dragonborn. Balgruff only sees the player as an asset. And look at the state of his children. Idk why everyone loves the guy so much.
@@goatslayer3160 I just never liked how, clearly, little attention he paid to his children and people. Riverwood had NO guards until there was a dragon attack. Walls and outposts and watchtowers crumbling despite getting chests and chests of imperial gold for the white-gold concordant?
Rikke embodied what the nords thought the empire could be. Tulius embodied what it was. The empire gave up and sat by and watched as a nord who fought for what they believe in died
I don't agree. Tullius and Rikke were willing to play the long game, it was a plan that they knew they would have to execute in order to sustain a revolution against the Thalmor. They knew that if they wanted to defeat the Thalmor, they would need all of Tamriel together, including Skyrim. Ulfric just has his mind set on his interest and the Nords' but it wouldn't take to much time for the Thalmor to regain control over Skyrim. And not many people are willing to fight for the Nordic ideals apart from the Nords. I think Tullius knew he couldn't win that fight, no matter what he does. It must not be easy to think after everything you've done, you end up losing all.
Tbh, besides handing Markarth directly over to the family responsible for its corruption, this is one of the parts of the Stormcloak questline that made me the most uncomfortable. Wish you could just accept Tullius' surrender, poor guy looks so despondent sitting on the bench as Ulfric and Galmar march in. End the bloodshed and send him back to the Empire in shame.
I wished that if you completed the Stormcloak Path, that you could challenge Ulfric for the throne of High King, but only if you're a Thane in each hold.
@@TheJesielpenateshow Blessed? Its Kyne's gift to people , plus using voice for your political gains is against the way of the voice. He literally murdered high king using his voice betrayed the Greybeards , to high king to empire. Greybeards say we use voice and follow way of the voice but you are dragonborn your path is different. Ulfric wasnt even loyal to his promise when his education begun to be a greybeard.
@@ladyselin35 Yes it's blessed by Kyne despite you being triggered. He consented to the dual it's not murdered. Otherwise, he wouldn't be in Soverngard, had refused the dual. And no the Empire betrayed the people, betrayed the Nords who helped retake the imperial city and the Gods, all 9 of them. When they started to put politics above faith. And no, the voice was used for self-defence not just for worship hence the ancient nords were blessed by Kyne to fight for freedom under an oppressive tranny, in this case, dragons. Hold truth now against the Empire and the Dominion. I don't you understand but Ulfric is blessed, Kyne like the rest of the 8, and more so with Akatosh are blessed and cursed with prescience. Had Kyne thought it was not a good idea, she wouldn't have given him the power or be a catalyst of radical change.
from how important the rebellion is to the main overall atmosphere of Skyrim and how much this storyline does to the world itself I think it's best left as one of the last major things the player does in a playthrough
Solitude is full of Imperial bootlicks like Eriker ready to sellout Skyrim while they appease their Imperial masters who in turn appease their Aldmeri masters. Any Nord with self respect and dignity will reject that.
Honestly i always sided with the Empire in most of my playthrough, but i think Stormcloack victory is beter for ES6 plot, i want ES6 start with the Empire(Cyrodiil) Fall or split like Ancient Rome ,either by Corruption or coup and the its up to Highrock,Hammerfell and Skyrim to fight againts Thalmor or something like that.
@@physical_insanity well, Hammerfell did defend itself. High Rock might be able to resist, since bretons and orcs are magical sponges and, respectively, really good mages and fighters, and just like the natural defenses in the swamps of Black Marsh, High Rock is filled with mountains, really freakin hard to invade a mountain or a swamp. But, not Skyrim, they're weak, the country is starving, the economy is non-existing thanks to the rebellion, magic is bad viewed thanks to Winterhold, the Empire is the last line of defense they have, Ulfric is opening his arms to Dominion, whether he wants or not. So, in conclusion, Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Valenwood and Elsweyr (these last two are already slave-like estate servants of the Thalmor) are fcked if the Empire falls, but the other provinces are fine, I guess. Morrowind has the best mages in Tamriel, they only lost to Argonia because of numbers, and the Summerset Isles don't have that either.
I think a imperial victory would be best for es6. If you listen to what the general says when siding with empire you realize that the empire is (secretly) planning to take down the alderi dominion once they have the fighting power
It blows my mind that we never got a DLC/Expansion that lets us give this war closure by finally confronting the Thalmor and going to battle against them. Ending this war is not satisfying because both factions imply that the Thalmor are the True enemy and despite our efforts and desire to battle the Thalmor we got nothing...
That’s because Skyrim is 5th in a series. We will see either the effects of that war or be involved in it with a future game. The imperial side has a much more positive tone to me. The stormcloaks loyalists will still likely give there all to defeat the thalmor in the next Great War, especially when Talos worship is legalized again.
@@romeohio19 haha wrong for what? For fighting for freedom? For a dying empire that continue genocide on its own people? Nah, it's cannon Stormcloaks will win, with a new Coalition with Hammerfell and Morrowind.
@@robmichaels8210 lol Ulfric divided what could have been one of the only forces strong enough to stand against the Thalmor. You really think the best way to face the full might of the Aldmeri Dominion and all three of it's allied nations (two of which are straight OP) by fracturing what little you do have even further? And If you really think that Skyrim would win against the dominion by itself and that Hammerfell would go anywhere near another great war again you're deeply mistaken. Also, none of what you said is cannon not to mention that Morrowind is still recovering from Red Mountain's eruption and the subsequent Argonian invasions. Say less
@@digitaldruglord1815 Sorry but Ulfric didn't do anything other than fight for his people out of slavery and genocide. To stop the empire from enforcing laws to forbid people of their faith and allowing the Thalmor to roam free to take them out of the night to accuse anyone of a slight glance to be then interrogated to torture and violence? Yeah, because Morrowind and Hammerfell hate the empire for their treacherous action, which led their people to death and suffering. And no, in the conclusion of the Civil War quest, Ulfric makes the claim that they have no intentions of invading the Dominion, other than rebuilding and strengthening their armies to prepare when the elves start acting up again. And yes it is cannon, seeing there's more hidden banter between Ulfric and Galmar, and that it's vanilla that Dragonborn is a Nord, and the Dragonborn of the past are vengeful, violent and spare no mercy. He'll take up the role of Ysmir/Wulfarth. Seeing the High Rock and Hammerfell in the next Elder Scroll 6 trailer, it seems the empire will collapse, and a new empire will emerge possibly High Rock succeeding Cyrodill as the next leading empire of man.
@@Tuturial464It doesn't. After every tes game the player character disappears after completing the main quest and dlc But even if that didn't happen, you could just as easily say the same for the empire, the dragonborns side, if he plays any role hasn't been confirmed so you're arguemnet makes 0 sense 😂😂😂
The empire's plan is to wait until they are strong enough to challenge the thalmor, except it has been 30 fkin years, thats an entire generation of soldiers, and they did nothing, and with every passing day the thalmor put more laws and kidnap more nords, further weakining the empire, it may feel bad in game to join the stormcloaks, but from a war standpoint they are 100% the right choice, especially considering skyrim's borders are with hammerfell where the resistance agaisnt the thalmor is well and kicking.
@@razaaten387 from a war standpoint the storm cloaks are the WORST choice LMAO In the long run the only other nation you can possibly ally Skyrim with is hammerfell because they’re the only other nation where the aldmeri dominion isn’t in charge. Aside from allies you also weaken most of Skyrim with the war killing most capable fighters. You literally have a band of rebels to defend ALL of Skyrim. The empire at least had reinforcements and not just nords. That’s the next point, the nords are racist af and that in and of itself is reason enough to not join them. Ulfric even says he REALIZES shit is bad in windhelm and doesn’t intend to change things. The empire path at least gives Skyrim allies and a support system. If the empire did decide to turn against the dominion then Skyrim is allied with Cyrodil and other nations. After they rebel you can convince hammerfell to join the cause as well. The imperial path is definitely the only “good” choice for the war plot line and most of the /nords/ in the game will even agree to that.
@@recalcitrance2561 that would only be the case if the empire actually did something, instead they waste time, and alot of it. Think about it, their plan is to keeo buying time until they are strong enough, but the thalmor arent stupid, they know this, and they are actively weakining the empire, day by day the empire loses more men, and more allies, we know this from books at the thalmor embassy, they even planned this whole rebillion to weaken the empire, they kidnap nords who worship talos and those always happen to be hardened soldiers, Ulfric realizes that with every day skyrim spends with the empire, it loses more and more, the literal only way to break free is to strike against the empire and become free NOW, so that he at least has time to regroup when the thalmor do attack, instead of just bleeding out soldiers, and might i remind you that hammerfell ALSO broke away from the empire, and they are the only place where the resistance is still going
@@razaaten387 you realize you just proved my point. You said the thalmor PLANNED the rebellion so that the empire loses men. So realistically the storm cloaks winning IS WHAT THEY WANT. You realize now nothing is stopping them from invading Skyrim? If the imperials win at least they can’t attack Skyrim because then there would be a valid reason for EVERYONE to turn on them. I’m just saying the empire is realistically the smartest option if you are anti thalmor. Yes you ally with them, but you know what they say. “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer”.
@@razaaten387 also hammerfell is only doing so well because redguards are lorewise busted as fuck lmao they’re the most ideal warriors only comparable by nords who in my opinion would still get wrecked by redguards. I will agree though that if somehow the storm cloaks could muster the numbers after the rebellion to form an army (because we have to remember that the imperial force in Skyrim and the storm clock rebellion were not armies by any means. Both groups has very small numbers even when considering they were in a civil war.) and if hammerfell can prevent more Saadia situations from happening, then honestly hammerfell and Skyrim would be a TERRIFYING adversary. But at the same time the dominion wins just by sheer numbers and recourses. You gotta think about trade as well. There are no supplies getting to hammerfell and the same would happen to a stormcloak Skyrim if they weren’t allied with Cyrodil anymore. They could simply be starved out to a dominion victory.
I just completed my Stormcloak playthrough, and despite Ulfric asking me to kill Tullius with his sword, I used the upgraded, full Unrelenting Force shout to turn Tullius to ash. Seemed more quick and merciful than a sword and I didn't want Ulfric to have the satisfaction of killing a surrendering man.
Tullius and Torygg just chilling in the afterlife bonding over how the power of the Thu'um screwed the Empire over twice in a row (three, if Titus eats a Fus Ro Dah as well).
So, in my Dragonborn's backstory, she was actually a Legionairre until she said no to killing some stormcloaks who can't fight because they're either Amputees, or extremely sick. They throw he in the cart to Helgen for that. And Alduin attacks, so she goes through, does the main quest. Deals with the Civil War (Making the temporary truce) and kills Alduin, then she does the Dawnguatd Questline (Vampire, I need to come upbwith a good reason why she chooses that), kind becomes Best friends with Serana, and some point cures herself and ends up heading to Soulstiem for the Dragonborn quest line, does that, Kind of becomes Herma Mora's champion (does nothing with that), and heads back to skyrim, at this point, she raising the daughter of a dead friend of her's, and notices how much worse the civil war is getting and decides she want to do something about it. But the imperials tried to chop her head off, and the stormcloaks where actually losing, and at this point she wants Little more death. She knows she can end it by joining either side. But being Half Nord (in game I just tune the Imperial race, but she's half Nord, half Imperial in the backstory Or just story versions of her), she did see some appeal to the stormcloaks, however, she had noticed the Argonians and Dunmer there too, and thought that if the Imperials Laid siege to Windhelm, which is already falling to ruins, they would get killed for being simple bystanders, and she decided to try to, I'm a small way rebuild the Ebonheatt pact with that. Obviously it wasn't easy (not at all, because of some 'spy' in the corner club), but she accomplished it essentially giving thesrormcloals three Provinces that they could attack from, which is what trigger the Negotiations, once again at High Hrothgar, this time without the blades, or Thalmor interrupting, and form Avianca that, lead by the Dragonborn pushed the Thalmor back to the Summerset isle, but no further, and placed siege equipment on they're coastlines as if to mock them. Ulrich and Tullius are both killed in push however, Tullius was beyond saving, and the best Anyone could do for ulfric was used reverse engineered Dwemmer tech to find a way to intur him in a Similar Setup to the Emperor of Mankind and Gulliman (until his ne gf, that is, but that doesn't happen to Ulfric, he just ends up staying there, unmoving, and unconscious forever), essentially Rikke gets Tullius' position, the Moot meets, and Selects a new high king. The Dragonborn however, pretty much returns to her Adopted Daughter, and Lives out her life. I really apologize for my wall of text, I don't normally get to share this, and I didn't mean it to get this long. Sorry...
I think both sides are right, in a way. The Mede Empire is nowhere near as powerful or glorious as the Septim Empire, and Skyrim would probably be better off on its own, BUT that's just not a good idea while the Thalmor are a threat.
No, the empire allowing the people of Skyrim to be abandoned and sacrificed while they do nothing about the Thalmor is worse. They have the troops and the power. But can a nation stand against the Dragonborn who equals the world shattering alduin?
Maybe after a victory against the dominion as an award or something. Maybe possibly getting an alliance with the empire or forming a Commonwealth of Man that would replace the Empire
He pretty much was giving up remember Went on full surrender mode speechless till the end Just show exactly why I side with the imperials Shame how tulius was so quiet and letting her legate die to her beliefs knowing a handful of stormcloak barbarians is not enough to stop the thalmor itself The empire was the last hope of stopping them Losing the great war should have never been a thing to give up on Better yet from what I hear A united army of tamriel and not just the empire alone can stop the thalmor
@Arronic People also forget the Thalmor had the Eye of Vaermina during the war. They had perfect information and still were only to establish a truce. Without the Eye of Vaermina the empire would have been the ones deciding the terms of the treaty.
@@Reporge Because the Forgotten Hero, Laaneth, Tyr, and some farming equipment infiltrated the city through some smuggling tunnels and either stole/destroyed the orb
It's kind strange Ulfric forgot that he got captured by the thalmor and did in fact surrendered to them secret information that he believed to have led to the capture of the capital...
The amount of reality checks you get as a Stormcloak vs an Imperial really makes you wonder what side you’re really on. At least you can use the Jagged Crown to give yourself a second chance. The question is, will you take it?
No,decapitate thalmor boot licker! Imperials claim to hate the thalmor as any other man yet enforce their laws,appease their nation and sell out their own people to them.
@@user-nn6go1jx1h The alternative is another Great War. Forget the Empire, all of Tamriel wouldn’t survive. Even High Elves from Summerset hate the Thalmor.
Tullius in the end was kinda right, Ulfric just weakened the possible fighting force against the Thalmor even more, and when you kill Ulfric and see him in Sovngarde, he admits as much, even if the stormcloaks and empire teamed up to fight the Thalmor, the cohesion of all troops being under one command and banner is kinda lost
No really that big of a loss since due to the way Skyrims landscape is the thalmor would have a hard time invading and ending the war asap means less lives lost and with the low birth rates elves have the thalmor likely haven't recovered from their losses since the great war.
@@CompassRoseGamingExcept the redguards won't go for any alliance. Them holding off the Dominion coupled with a massive distrust of outsiders leaves them no reason for an alliance in their mind.
it's such a shame there isn't a 3rd option to unite the 2 sides. General Tullius is 100% right, this is exactly what the Dominion wants!! The Empire tearing itself apart from within, the fact that Ulfric can't see that the White Gold concordant is just a cease fire, and that the war WILL eventually continue is just so ridiculous. "omg we can't worship Talos" so what!! That is such a minor inconvenience to gain the time needed to prepare and regroup for the war to start again. Worship in private maybe? Look at Rikke!! She still worships Talos!! She just does it privately cause she understands the Dominion is also gearing up and regrouping for war again. It really bothers the heck outta me that Ulfric refuses to see this.
I wished you could challenge Ulfric for the title of High King right as you defeat the Empire A sort of poetic justice forcing him into the same situation he did Torygg, because I sure as hell ain't letting Ulfric be the leader of a free Skyrim. The only reason he ever got as far as he has was because of the Dragonborn, and the Dragonborn wouldn't stop with just Skyrim, but the entirety of Tamriel itself!
Tullius’ victory over Ulfric shows that he was not after fortune and fame, but there to finish the job he was brought to do. His intent was pure and logical, and he knew that the violent silencing of the rebellion, as bad as it is, would allow the Empire to stand its ground against the Thalmor. On the other hand, Ulfric’s victory over Tullius shows that he’s an egomaniacal ruler who only cares about being remembered and known by history books and poems. Even at Tullius’ notion “The Rebellion exists to weaken the empire against the Thalmor”, he states that “This is more than just a rebellion”, showing how egocentric he is. Makes sense, as he is literally a Thalmor asset.
This is far from the truth. The Empire is nothing more than the thalmors puppet. They literally run around kidnapping and murdering innocent Nords UNDER IMPERIAL RULE. His intent was not pure, his intent is weak and he is a fool to think the empire (which is barely standing) can stand any chance against the thalmor. As Galmore said “the day the empire signed that damn treaty, is the day the empire died” As for Ulfric, although some of his men are racist and bigoted and are super “SKYRIM ARE FOR THE NORDS” kinda folk it does not make him that. Actually there is no proof in the game that suggest what he is leading the rebellion for himself. A Stormcloak victory is a MUST, if Tameriel wants to stand a chance against the thalmor.
The Empire being the Thalmor's puppet is just propaganda made by the Stormcloaks to make themselves look better. Tullius, the Empire, and even the Aldmeri Dominion knows that the White-Gold Concordat is nothing but a prelude to the 2nd Great War. Hence why the Thalmor is in Skyrim to radicalize the Nords and why even tho they captured Ulfric, they later "released" him, then later on, he caused the Civil War, all of which being very convenient to the Thalmor. Which is why Tullius was sent to Skyrim, to organize the Nords and be focused for the 2nd war on the horizon. As for Ulric, he literally does nothing for the Dunmer living in Windhelm, he intentionally doesn't let the Argonians in the city, and whenever a Khajiit caravan gets raided, he doesn't lift a finger, so nah, I'm pretty sure he's that kinda guy. The Stormcloak's cause, the Civil War, and Ulfric himself dances to the rhythm of the Dominion, all of which only dooms Tamriel with Skyrim dragging down the Empire's preparation to the 2nd Great War
@@romeohio19 I think it's more that Bethesda went really surface level with their whole "moral ambiguity' thing. Originally, Ulfric was supposed to be with you and Ralof in Helgen Keep, but the devs realized that would make it too easy to make the Stormcloaks sympathetic to the player.
I like how Rikke says that without the Empire,Skyrim doesn´t have a chance against the Dominion and just as all their followers, Galmar and Ulfric completely ignore that point.
The whole rebellion was just such a fuck you too everyone trying to band together and face the Thalmor. Not to mention Titus Mede's peace treaty that straight up saved millions
The empire had a chance and they ignored the people of Skyrim. They had built up their forces and sacrificed people in Skyrim. And unjustly captured the Dragonborn about to be executed.
The only reason why I sided with the stromclocks was that the empire wanted to kill me without a trial. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't justifies executing innocent people.
The most hilarious comment I stumbled accross empire supporter player justified their own character death that they play. Paraphrasing "they need to speed up the list or else Ulfric may escape." -Forget the list s/he goes to the block probably Lol if you died that is it. Ulfric/Tullius is dead and Tamriel is doom because Imperial decide to kill the one thing that can stop Alduin.
@@Tuturial464that justifies racism against khaijits,orcs,dunmer by the stormcloaks Lmao an altmer was in the legion because how much he hated the thalmor
So I was somewhat traumatized when doing this scene because I had a bunch of sex lab mods installed, I have no shame about that, but what happened filled me with regret. They beat Tullius to the ground, and when they were about to murder Rikke, Ulfric walked up and sexually assaulted her right in front of General Tullius. He then brutally killed her, before finally finishing Tullius off. I immediately second-guessed my allegiance to the Stormcloaks. 😬
**Rikke literally standing right in front of them** I K N E W I H E A R D S O M E T H I N G Just when I was getting emotionally invested in the characters, story and dialogue Skyrim's dumbass AI ruins the moment.
Ulfric was honest and believed he was doing the right thing, however he ended up being an invaluable asset to the Thalmor by rebelling. Galmar just seems bloodthirsty.
@@emberZemian you are forgetting the Last Dragonborn. Also, these is a reason why the player gets to choose a side in the war. Whether the Stormcloaks or the Empire win, the Thalmor will take over. The Last Dragonborn will assure a fighting chance for Skyrim and both Tulius and Ulfric know that.
@@Rizu-kc3ze true, but, let me remind you of Dragon Breaks. Skyrim is the second game that let us choose sides in a war, the first being Daggerfall, and in Daggerfall, every choice the Player made was canon. The Last Dragonborn will play a major role after the civil war, and a Dragon Break will occur.
I remember when I first played Skyrim, I initially sided with the stormcloaks. I felt horrible after the battle of whiterun, and right as we were about to kill general Tullius I turned on ulfric and started attacking him, ready to kill him. But I couldn’t do it because the game didn’t allow me. So after the whole thing I felt so awful about it that I restarted the game all over again and made a new save with the same character.
After years of watching her on Babylon 5, hearing Claudia Christian half-assing it in Skyrim was painful. It's like she's reading the dialogue for the first time.
Dude the VAs *were.* They were given their lines in alphabetical order and given absolutely no direction for any of them. I think the only ones who did were the main quest ones.
@@ajsouza3720 It is even more painfully obvious in the polish dubbing that this is the way it happened - characters speak in excited voice about normal things, angry when things are normal, sad when there's nothing to be said about etc. because the actors who dubbed these translated lines tried to put some emotion into what they were saying but had no context about why characters say that. Worst instances are when the lines are just one or two words, cause thats when they had the least context. For example you have a chill converstation with a person thanking you for what you did, and at the end of being very grateful, suddenly they say furiously say "GOOD BYE" instead of saying it in a normal way
Why was Torygg killed? "Because Ulfric needed a symbol. Someone he could defeat who represented the Empire, the White-Gold Concordat, the banning of Talos worship. Torygg's father Istlod had held Skyrim together for nearly twenty-five years. When he died, Torygg became that symbol." So the war started when Istlod died? "No. Even after Istlod died, the Moot voted to make Torygg High King of Skyrim. But Ulfric was at that moot, continually talking about Skyrim's independence in terms just shy of treason. I don't think Ulfric knew how much Torygg respected him for that. If Ulfric had asked Torygg directly to stand up, to declare independence, Torygg might have done it." Why didn't Torygg ever declare independence? " Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire. And Torygg wasn't ready to let it fall apart." Sybille Stentor
@@fabriziodefrancesco7083 Taking all the sources from an Imperial. You ignore that the Empire is taxing Skyrim hard, mentioned by Ulfric and Galmar. That doesnt go in favor of the Empire helping skyrim with resources, as you wouldnt do that and tax the shit out of them. Also, they have those taxes on Skyrim but they wont defend it Skyrim from the Thalmor. They dont care that the Nords are being kidnapped and killed. Nothing matters as long as Cyrodill is safe. That is the "true" Empire. The Empire is doing to Skyrim just like they did to Morrowind and Hammerfell, turning their backs and draining them off of their resources. They didnt help the Dunmer when they were in need, instead they took their troops from Morrowind to defend Cyrodill. They didnt send troops to Hammerfell, instead, a general, who went against the Empires order, sent some troops. The Empire says that Skyrim needs them, but in reality, just like before, it is the empire that needs Skyrim. The Nords should do like the Dunmer and the Redguards and leave the Empire for good. Edit: Torygg liking and supporting Ulfric is something only one NPC knows. Ulfric Obviously had no clue of that. For him, Torygg is the same guy that turned his back on him in Markath. No one knew of his support for Ulfric except for Sybille Stentor, so it cant be used as evidence for Ulfric being a barbarian.
@@jijijijijiji44 Galmar doesn't count likewise, he's simply UNLISTENEABLE ...even when chose TWICE the Stormcloaks I had soon enough of him and his hatred ravings But Sybille is the unique who knows or the unique who ADMITS all that?
@@fabriziodefrancesco7083 Sybille Stentor is the only one who knew about it. No one else mentions it. If anyone else knew that Torygg supported the rebellion, it would paint him as a traitor to the empire and basically enemy to the Thalmor. It would be stupid to think that everyone knew such a thing, because it would be damaging to the Kings image. Also, no Jarl knew about it. No high ranking person knew either. Hell, not even General Tullius or Legate Rikke knew anything about Toryggs support for the Stormcloaks. Galmar is a man of heart. He fights for what he deems right. Yo cant hate such pure love for his comrades and country. He forces conflict with the Empire, yes. But if that were bad, then you should also hate Tullius, as he wanted to give up Whiterun based solely on his hatred for the Nords.
tell me, what would you do in that situation? You're already beaten. And if you do manage to kill the three of them, what's next? Do you expect to waltz out like nothing happened?
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew i'm not talking about killing anyone, i'm talking about standing up and die like a general, like a warrior, not like a virgin uncle in his 40s
Seeing how they where ready to spare her? Get real the empire isnt any better then the stormcloaks. Hell they were ready to kill you simply for trying to cross a border as if you were a criminal. The stormcloaks may be racist but at least they dont kill innocent people
@@jismeraiverhoeven I think the reason the execution was rushed and that innocent people were condemned was to try and execute Ulfric before the Thalmor interfered, which they were trying to do as you enter Helgen. Tullius is aware of the "cold war" the Thalmor are waging against the Empire, and taking any chances would mean greater risk of some kind of "miraculous escape" for the Stormcloak leader.
I'd rather side with the stormcloaks only because it will make for a much more interesting story for tes VI. Fighting for the empire is the more reasonable choice but it's boring. I'd prefer having a more complicated political situation in tes VI.
And killing skyrim's people as an Imperial ain't boring? Is the same quest line... But i could not kill the nords who believe in a better homeland for themselves.
Fighting for the Empire is not reasonable, you're fighting for a decayed corpse that has done nothing but rot for 25 years and is completely paralyzed by Thalmor agents everywhere in its military.
How tho imperials need to win if anyone stuck in the past it’s ulfric nerfing the empire even if he wins thalmor would attack sooner then if was empire and we’ll Skyrim would be token over bye thalmor ulfric is done Skyrim is done but stromcloaks have more entertaining ending
I think no matter what the end result is the same. The empire says are numbered in the civil war you see only brothers and sisters fighting for the same ideal with a different result. The issue is that the empire stood and allowed this to go in the long run, the empire fighting back is not guaranteed to happen in some of these peoples life span it’s already been 30 years since and it seems that the soldiers are ready for round 2 but the empire shows no rush in the matter they could’ve easily squashed Ulfric rebellion Im positive they are aware the Thalmor have their hands in almost everything involving their downfall but yet countless Nords died, Nords are a big part of the empire and are the glue without them the empire will surely make drastic actions to either reclaim their lost territory or the thalmor
you can watch this before joining sides, so you can safely choose the Imperials. Period. Ulfric's and his brute's plain stupidity and egoism is summarized clearly here
Tulius might be the most selfless of the two, but I'll be a damned fool if I was completely okay clinging to a dysfunctional husk of the Septim empire run by an emperor who killed thousands of his own people for a pryhicc victory only to sign away the treaty once he got his capital back. Hammerfell seceded, Morrowind held the title of Province in vain for years. You don't have to buy everything Ulfric sells to be on the same boat as his.
@@hansalanson3497 his boat is going to lead to the the destruction of skyrim though Skyrim won't be able to defend against the dominion alone and no one else is going to want to help the Nords Ulfric should have waited until just after the 2nd war with the dominion to rebel
@@jackmakila3776 So, you rather have them upstart a rebellion from the Empire after the Dominion decided to land the final blow to anyone who associate with the Septim emblem? How is that any wiser? Skyrim could already be vasal state of the Aldmeri by that point. I'd say they have more chance seceding and create international alliance with Hammerfell or even Morrowind if it decides to do the same rather than waiting for the conclusion of a second war that nobody is certain of.
@@jackmakila3776 Skyrim has the best chance to defend against the dominion. It has the best natural borders of any country, followed by Black Marsh. It is 3 to 4 countries away from the Dominion, which would mean that the Thalmor would have to go through the Empire (or what is left of it) first and then to Skyrim Skyrim is also being drained off its resources by the Empires Taxes. They got Thalmor taking their families and the Empire doing nothing. They should have never accepted such a thing. Once Skyrim regains independence, they will invest on their own people and become stronger. What Imperials dont know, is that the Empire is constantly weaking Skyrim with their demands. The Nords are being asked to provide for the Empire that betrayed them and that is constantly sucking them dry of resources. The Empire's main goal is to defend Cyrodill, and it doesnt care about defending the other provinces. They betrayed Morrowind and Hammerfell by not sending troops in times of need, and even more, taking troops from them. Same thing they are doing to Skyrim. The empire is trying to save itself at the cost of everyone else. Skyrim should do like Morrowind and Hammerfell and leave that shell of an Empire. The Empire knows that it needs Skyrim more than Skyrim needs the Empire.
In my current playthrough for Skyrim AE Switch Edition, I have a Breton female, and her story so far is, of course, she is the link between elves and Humans/Nords being the biology of Bretons. She is political and strategic she sides with the Stormcloaks and hates the empire for almost executing her, though she knows some are good. she dislikes the thalmor due to of course history and because they "side" with the empire. After finding out she is dragonborn, she comes to the realization she could become quite powerful and potentially be the next emperor/empress of tamriel. As the daughter of akatosh, her goal is to become thane of all cities in skyrim and (now going into fantasy) becoming the high queen of skyrim. In turn, uniting the region and taking the fight to the Thalmor.
@@haarp9069it’s in the middle. He hates the Thalmor, but as Tullius says, he only helps the Thalmor by rebelling to the point that the Thalmor considers him an asset.
I would have sent his head back home as a warning to Imperial interlopers. Considering how many times Tullius expresses his desire to see Ulfric's head on a pike in the Legion campaign, it would only be fitting for him to suffer the same fate.
@@mausolus8466 hahahaha! Good point. Although it's still something I would have done but I would have pointed out to him his soldiers were not going to extend that same courtesy to myself.
I love how Skyrim doesn't change the battle voicelines for NPC's. It could be a serious moment the they could say something like "Is someone there?" Lmao
Ulfric is right, but he isn’t being the bigger man about this. The empire should have given Skyrim freedom and had them as an ally. Civil war averted. That being said Ulfric was upsetting the status quo, so he could have been the bigger man and focused on the common enemy.
Ulfric is wrong, he's just a pissy boy with ego problems and all he ever wanted was power. If the empire didn't sign the White-Gold concordat, there would be no nord left in skyrim to claim it is theirs in the first place. Stormcloacks are just ungrateful pricks.
The empire losing Skyrim is an official death sentence to it. You’re forgetting the empire literally only lived during the Great War because of the battle of the red ring, a battle where everyone basically suicide charges the imperial capitol. A massive chunk of this legion was nord. Nords would not suicide charge to save the capitol of foreign oppressors. Along with that, half of Skyrim didn’t want to be free. Ulfric has to actively invade Whiterun and depose it’s incredibly popular jarl to take it. The only imperial city you could argue wants to be part of a free Skyrim is falkreath, and that’s just because the old jarl who was deposed said it was because he was critical of the empire.
@@ryanrzjr Like I said, easy fix is compromise. Let Skyrim be at best a tributary state that is independent, and at worst, a fully independent and equal ally. Legally get around the loophole of the concordat. The empire in elder scrolls V was R’tarded. So rigid. No ability to find the best solution.
@@elyastoohey6621 Skyrim basically already is a tributary state. The same as valenwood and elsweyr were. The empire lost 2 provinces simply because the aldmeri performed coups and the government joined them instead of the empire. Other than that, it would still mean the end of the empire, as I explained. The nords wouldn’t have any reason to risk all of Skyrim for some suicidal recon quest of the imperial city like at red ring, and without cyrrodil, Tamriel falls. On top of that, ulfric made it clear he wasn’t going to negotiate with the empire. In this very video he and galmar remark that the empire is dead. Ulfric hated the empire long before the rebellion, because as you learn in the thalmor dossier on him, he’s hated them for a long time, even while being in the imperial army. What reason should Skyrim be independent though? Because 4/9 jarls want it? Because ulfric beat the high king in combat? The empire is much more stable and controlled when it can efficiently use its resources and men together with Skyrim as one state.
The whole civil war is basically Romeo and Juliet without Romeo and Juliet. The Capulets and the Montagues were a lot alike deep down and could have easily gotten along if not for their petty feud. Both sides of the conflict think they're "right", but neither of them fully is and neither of them fully isn't. They both have their merits and they both have their shortcomings. Such is the sad truth of most conflict. Unfortunately in Skyrim there's no star crossed lovers to show the two sides that they have more in common than they are different. The Empire and the Stormcloaks are both patriotic to Skyrim and both hate the Thalmor. Unfortunately peace between them simply wasn't possible, there could be only one remaining in the end for neither would budge in their desire to wipe out the other.
Only ever completed the Stormcloak questline once. Frankly, Ulfric was a jerk to me and always seemed to be more of a politician then anyone else in Skyrim, using honeyed words of rebellion and glorious Norddom to fuel his own aspirations of power, with no regard for collateral damage or the bigger picture. He never cared about the suffering in his own city, like the Dark Elves and Argonians. He would gladly have given up any number of his people to 'win the war' if it meant he would be king. The Imperials are overbearing, but without them Tamriel doesn't stand a chance against the real enemies, the Thalmor. Suffice to say, killing Ulfric at the end of the Imperial questline was far more satisfying.
At the very least, the current Emperor doesn't have the proper "stomach" for war, which is further cemented by the fact that the "Emperor" who led the Battle of the Red Ring was a body double.
@@DarkAdonisVyers You are shortsighted, brain dead and are using half truths to try to prove a false point. The emperor was the only one out of his cabinet who chose to go to war with the Thalmor after they presented that sheet of demands. He chose war over dishonor. The emperors camp was attacked and he was gravely injured, which is the reason why there was a body double leading the legions in the first place. It wasn’t because he “couldn’t stomach war.” Dont blatantly lie. That’s what we call propaganda 💀💀💀
This idea that “without the empire we’d have no chance against the Thalmor” is absurd. Yeah it would be a long shot but what’s the alternative? We’ve already lost the empire, the Thalmor are controlling them and acting through them. Empire controlled Skyrim having Thalmor agents march through, kidnapping Talos worshippers doesn’t exactly scream “Imperial sovereignty”. The empire is a corpse and Skyrim needs to shed that dead weight, even if you don’t like the idea of losing the empire. The empire is already lost.
@@nathanbean8763 The Empire is not lost, no the Thalmor are not controlling them. There were no Thalmor even in Skyrim until Ulfric Stormcloak started making a bunch of noise about Talos, whom 100% everyone was still worshipping. Terms of a treaty does not relinquish sovereignty. What the Stormcloaks are doing is called jumping the gun and making things worse. Your idea that the Nords could fight the Thalmor without the Empire are what’s truly absurd. The Empire has the resources and manpower and strength, seeing as though when the playing field was leveled the legions obliterated the Thalmor in open combat even when outnumbered. The Empire is not dead weight, and your arguments for that literally give the Thalmor what they want. I said it before and I’ll say It again; Stormcloak supporters are either Naive, Shortsighted, or unintelligent.
@@DarkAdonisVyers the reason for the body double was because the emperor was mauled by assassins the night before. You’re forgetting the emperor also dies in the plot line of Skyrim, and he embraces it.
There was a only one true empire: the Empire of Independent Skyrim. And maybe an independent Skyrim-lead 2nd Ebonheart Pact (Windhelm Pact?). Lead of course by the true emperor, the Player Character’s Last Dragonborn.
God I hate that quote so much because it totally ignores the fact the Thalmor regularly drag Nord prisoners to the dungeons of northwatch and the embassy for inquisitorial reasons. Add that the battle born (i.e. Thalmor collaborators) help vanish honest people into the hands of the Thalmor. But na the empire is totally protecting Tamriel from the Thalmor and not enabling their persecution of men.
If Bethesda has to choose between either of the Civil War endings, i strongly feel this is the one they'll go for. The end of the Empire has been spelt since the day Martin died, the Great War only made things clearer. Ulfric was one of those who believed in the Empire, who fought for it in the War. When the Empire betrayed him after Markarth, he turned bitter. The entire backstory of Skyrim leads to Ulfric's revenge. His win helps the Thalmor, yes, and that's the exact setting in which we'll find ourselves in the next Elder Scrolls. The Empire at its weakest, with only two remaining provinces (and truth be told, High Rock has always been prone to either its own independence or its petty kingdoms' independence, so it's fair to assume it won't take much for them to leave, also considering the Emperor is probably dead), whilst the Dominion is at its strongest ever. The Thalmor are as close as they'll ever be to an elven dominion over Tamriel once again. Whether their intent is indeed to remake Nirn through the undoing of all the towers (last one active is in Balfiera, which is one more hint towards the location of ES:VI) or simply to rule over all Tamriel, this is their best shot. Seeing Rikke and Ulfric talk it out one last time shows how sad they both are at what it has come to. Neither of them wanted this but both had their hands tied by the Thalmor. The next Elder Scrolls will be the culmination of all these storylines, of the end of the Septims, the downfall of the Empire, the rebellion in Skyrim, the rise of the Thalmor and the undoing of the towers.
what will likely happen is 1. Imperial victory: the empire resurges after the sacrifice of Titus Mede, who becomes a martyr. The empire is reinvigorated and newly unified (Skyrim, high rock, cyrrodil, and maybe morrowwind.) hammerfell will likely join against the thalmor is a new Great War. The spark for the war will likely be in elsweyr, with khajit realizing the thalmor were the ones who took the moons away and tricked the khajit. Capitalizing on this, the empire goes to war, likely defeating the thalmor. The peace deal can’t really be predicted. 2. Skyrim gains it’s independence and the “empire.” As we know it is gone. High rock would likely join Skyrim or hammerfell, if not becoming completely independent. Cyrrodils claim of empire is gone, and with it, Tiber septims legacy is gone completely. Still likely the spark is in elsweyr, but possibly valenwood. The alliance of khajit, redguard, Bretons, imperials, and nords defeat the thalmor and drive them back to summerset isle. The dream of a new merethic era is stalled, but likely not completely gone with the thalmor. It’s possible a new faction of high elves conquer Alinor. Either way, there won’t be any conquests. Elsweyr and valenwood will be independent. Each region will likely see independence, bringing in a new era of indepdent racial kingdoms. With this, I could see the end of ES games in sight. No reason to bring back any empire if it all just lead to each regions independence. Likely we’ll see games for new regions, but nothing more.
Before you judge ulfric and the stormcloaks, you really need to understand ulfric and his time in markarth and what cruelties the empire has done. And how the stormcloaks will win against the thalmor with the Last Dragonborn
Funny you bring up Markarth yet neglect to point out that Ulfric collaborated with the Thalmor at that time. Ulfric's the reason why the Justiciars were allowed in and why the Talos ban started getting enforced.
@@BlackFang2 You ever played Dota 2 or League of Legends? What do you do when your team starts losing and you need to make a comeback? If your answer is "charge at the enemy team and die over and over again, feeding them more gold and experience to stomp you even harder", then you've just summed up the Stormcloak mentality. Tullius knows that the fight with the Thalmor can't be won right now, Tamriel needs time to recover its strength first. Ulfric's rebellion is throwing a spanner in the works of that plan. Ulfric is that toxic piece of shit who starts flaming the rest of the team in All-Chat when the match is going badly, gets everybody arguing with each other, makes bad call after bad call and drags everybody's morale down, making a comeback even harder than it already was.
@@Randoman590 You still don't get it. The Thalmor will benefit from either side's victory regardless. How can the Empire take time to gather strength, if they are constantly supplying the Thalmor and allowing them to govern their cities? (Not to meantion the Thalmor are ALWAYS keeping an eye on the Empire's actions). Do you honestly think the Thalmor would overlook such a detail if Tullius really was trying to gather his army's strength? This isn't only about winning, what matters more is fighting for the RIGHT cause. Ulfric is a hero. He might not be the brightest King, but he's just trying to protect his people's homeland and religion. Let me ask you, what right do the Imperials and Thalmor have to govern the Nords? It's THEIR homeland. Sure directly attacking the Thalmor might not look like the best idea. But the Stormcloaks are more than capable of returning a comeback, ESPECIALLY with the Dragonborn's help. If Ulfric is such a horrible selfish man, how did he end up in Sovenguard in the first place? Hmmmm... Compare victory speeches between Ulfric's victory and Tullius' victory. And tell me which sounds more honorable and worthy. I don't know about you, but never in hell would I ever allow anyone to invade my Homeland, freedom of speech, and religious believes. Death before dishonor, a term the Empire could never understand...
@@BlackFang2 No, the Thalmor don't benefit from either side's victory. The dossier on Ulfric in the Embassy says as much - they benefit from NEITHER side winning and the war continuing in perpetuity. That's why Elenwen was at Helgen at the beginning of the game - the Thalmor was trying to convince the Empire to hand Ulfric over to them so they could release him and let him carry on the war. Alduin interrupting the execution basically did their job for them. It's been a while since I dug into the exact details here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think SUPPLYING the Thalmor with war materiel was part of the terms of the Concordat. They have to put up with them for now, yes, but they aren't actively helping them. And there's clearly some sway both ways. Did you know that if you side with the Imperials in the war, you're supposed to be able to get Thorald Grey-Mane released from the Thalmor Keep peacefully by just asking Tullius to write a letter demanding it? You just walk up to the guard, show him the letter and he escorts you in. That option is removed from the base game only by a bug, which is fixed in the Unofficial Patch. Yes, I do think it would be perfectly feasible for the Empire to do a good chunk of its military rebuilding unnoticed. They'll notice when the Empire start moving legions around to get ready for battle itself, but by that point it'll be a bit late. This has precedent in real life from Nazi Germany. Even if the Thalmor do notice immediately, the Empire will be war-ready again sooner than the Dominion if everything goes to plan. And no, the Stormcloaks are not strong enough on their own to make a comeback. It's not just "especially" with the Dragonborn's help, it's "only" with the Dragonborn's help. If we just let the war and its aftermath play out 'naturally' without the player joining either side, Stormcloaks are doomed. Yes, I will grant you that Ulfric is a far better orator than Tullius and he makes much better impassioned speeches. He truly believes himself to be right. But that doesn't MAKE him right. Tullius is dismissive of Nordic culture and doesn't really give much of a damn. But I don't have to hate a man to kill him (as Captain Alvis says of Roggvir), and I don't have to like a man to support his cause.
@@Randoman590 Sorry that's not true, Tullius is a soldier not a politician. He dosen't have no say other than wishful thinking. He hates the Thalmor as much as Ulfric, sadly the powerful and prestige of Cyrodill aristrocrats and Elder Council would rather persue peace, on the stipulation of coin. As the Thalmor has bought favor in powerful members in that circle. In the long run, the Dominion would win, if they don't act now. And no you're mistaken, Stormcloaks with Dragonborn can topple anything, when he unlocks Bend Will Shout, Dragon Aspect and Storm call, along with many other shouts, seeing the new Elder Scroll 6 taking place in High Rock Rock or Hammerfell, it's now possible to see Skyrim and Hammerfell will join forces. 1 Dragon was enough for Tiber Septim to take Hammerfell, now imagine 14 Dragons. In truth Stormcloaks victory would change the politcal landscape of all Tamerial, even adoptaing a radical pro-humanity in Cyrodiil, forcing powerful to change their stance.
This bit literally explains why you shouldn't go with the Stormcloaks in the civil war questline. This is exactly what the Thalmor wanted to happen, they even have a writing about Ulfric being an asset to their movement. If you side with someone only seen as an "asset" instead of a "threat" by the Thalmor, then you are doomed. With this, the Empire losts another province that might've been useful to help them win another Great War and the Empire and Cyrodiil is definitely at a disadvantage against the Aldmeri Dominion. So to put it lightly, with Skyrim lost to the Empire. It would give them a disadvantage that would fall into Cyrodiil and the Empire being taken out in another war and with Cyrodiil on the Thalmor's hand, Skyrim would easily lose and Hammerfell is next.
no, the Thalmor wanted that the civil war never ended. You imperials doesn't know to analyze. Ulfric WAS an asset, he's no longer. And what if the Empire lost that province? What if the Empire falls? Skyrim doesn't have to take the consecuenses and an indepent Skyrim can defend his land better than the shitty Empire. Hammerfell already did it and in worse conditions. The Thalmor need decades to make an attack to Cyrodill, Skyrim or Hammerfell. Decades that the independent Nords are using during an Stormcloak outcome to movilize troops, regain soldiers and train them and reinforce Skyrim. So to put it lightly, the Empire is the worst choice and it would fall one way or another. The sooner Skyrim get rid of them the better and in that way Skyrim would be self reliant and realistically preparing for a war.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb Bro why are you in here arguing skyrim politics like they actually carry any real world weight. You picked one out of two possible choices in a video game, stop acting like someone not making the same choice is somehow a bad thing. "You Imperials" acting like the dude's actually from tamriel, jfc.
@@noonjo8985 what is the problem of arguing about politics of a video game with facts and lore base? What, because i can analyze and see things more clearly does mean that i cannot explain why the choice you made isn't the correct? So basically, you are telling me that if you take a bad choice i cannot explain to you with objective facts that what you did is the worst or the incorrect choice? Do you even know that in the videogames exist bad and good endings right? You know that they are called that because i don't know, perhaps people analyze and consecuently understood by the lore of that videogame which choice is the bad and which is the good? I don't care if you don't like to argue or having discussions about videogames about the lore. The facts are the facts and if you don't like it then be an ignorant. But you cannot ban me my chance to express why someone is wrong or right and even less if i'm doing it supporting it with base and arguments with objective view, not because "you pick the choice that i don't, that's why you are wrong". I literally made an argument, not a stupid nonsense with baseless claims. I invite you to read and analyze what i posted to later discuss with facts, not saying stupid things like that. Yes, imperials. If you choose the Stormcloaks you are a stormcloak supporter, if you choose imperials you are imperial supporter, i don't understand your argument. What the hell does that mean with implying that you are living in Tamriel. What a stupid point.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb You're right that you can argue about the outcomes of what happens if one side or the other wins the civil war. I suppose what I'm trying to get at is that the tone I've seen you use in this comment and other replies to other comments for this video have been, at least from my perspective, provocative. Like they are wrong, and by extension, stupid for not agreeing with the decision you have made. That is why I made the observation that you're treating the politics of a videogame like they carry weight in real life. Point is, they don't, the decision is ultimately arbitrary, and its consequences do not leave the boundaries of the game. In my opinion, arguing whether it is worse if the stormcloaks or the imperials win the civil war is ultimately pointless, because it is pure headcanon as to what happens once the war is over. Until TES VI comes out and the writers decide an outcome for us, our inputs cannot be more than headcanon.
@@dutchpatriot17 he only surrendered in darkwater crossing because he didn't want to his men to be killed. Oh right, later Tullius tries to execute all of them. Really compasive that guy. And when was the other one? Explain fanatic lier.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb that's only an assumption of ralof lol by that logic i can say that he surrendered because he has always been a coward. he also had surrednered during the first war and betrayed his allies but luckily for him that info was useless. at least tullius makes sense.
Ulfric literally commanded a rebellion against the one barrier between the dominion and skyrim. Tulius was on his last knees and everything crumbled around him, so it wouldnt surprise me if he wasnt very happy with his failure to protect his nation Ulfric would make an excellent war commander, but the problem is that he sees all who oppose as something to be crushed rather than see the negatives of his rising. Its a bit more than being staunch and unmoving
@@weirdgamer9566 the empire bends to all thalmor orders to supposedly gather wnough power to strike back, it has been 30 years already and they did nothing, skyrim is more than able to defend against the thalmor alone especially considering its borders are with hammerfell (remember that the redguards has no problem fighting the thalmor alone). The thalmor arent invincible but the empire acts like they are, and with everyday and every new order the thalmor gain more power over the empire
@@razaaten387 I guess you put too much faith in a band of rebels. The empire is keeping the thalmor in check for 30 years as you mentioned. 30 years without massive bloodshed. That's a win for me. If the stormcloaks wins the rebellion, they are not destroying the empire, they are merely expelling them from Skyrim. The empire still exists. Don't you think that now, with general tullius defeat, the empire won't send more troops to crush everyone? The talmor would simply watch the pit fighting, making small adjustments to keep the fight going and suddenly launch a massive attack. In the short term, watching the story unfold as a mere warrior, the rebels surely is the best bet, but if you really aspire peace, the empire is the only way. do you really want to exchange 30 years of "peace" for a lifelong battlefield?
@@sunseeker1888 30 years of peace ? You mean 30 years of bowing down to the thalmor and and letting them have free reign over every law, i would gladly fight with the empire if it actually tried to fight the thalmor, but the rebillion started because the empire doesnt do anything, you may argue it cant do anything, but we know they can, they won back the imperial city from literal hundreds of thousands of thalmor, so its not like they cant win, and 30 years should have been enough for the empire to regroup with skyrim and launch another attack, but instead they put ulfruc un prison after he freed markarth, because the thalmor told them to, ulfric literally had no other choice, a band of rebels that will try something, is better than an empire that will die slowly doing nothing
@@razaaten387 you do know the reason the Aldmeri Dominion win (or nearly win) the great war is because they caught the empire off guard,right? And even then they're being screwed in Hammerfell and get into the trap at Cyrodiil in the battle of Red Ring. Though,the Emperor mistake is that he didn't push his advantages and gather all of his army to quickly strike the Dominion,that is for sure and not to say causing Hammerfell to become salty and split off from the Empire. If the Empire got a new Emperor who dare to start the war against the Dominion,maybe Skyrim wouldn't rebel. But as I once see somewhere,the Empire have the numbers but not the supply to support a prolonged war against the Dominion...
I always side with the Stormcloaks because it lets me live out my Barbarian Vs. Roman fantasies. Ulfric is basically Vercingetorix and Tullius is Julius Caesar.
by tulius's logic, the better option would've been to just give Skyrim autonomy right away and not divert resources towards it in the first place. The dominion would not have had a justifiable reason to force them to try and retain land since the only outline of the treaty was banning talos worship within the empire. empire shuns skyrim it would still be following the treaty.
You should read up on what made Hammerfell stand up. Everyone keeps citing this, but all Stormcloak sympathizers fail to realize that Hammerfell did not win. They got to a stand still. Their whole nation is basically all messed up when it comes to their resources and infrastructure.
Oh my god, Hammerfell won in a drawn out continental war do you really think they would have lifted a single curved sword if the Dominion's complete focus was on them? It'll take nothing short of the rest of Tamriel to face the Thalmor
Hammerfell resisted the Thalmor pretty much only because the Imperial Legion was still there. The Legion decimated the Thalmor at the battle of Skaven and was about to drive them out of the city entirely before they were recalled to Cyrodiil; the army that eventually took back Skaven and drove the Thalmor out of Hammerfell was mostly made up of Legion veterans who had remained after the larger part of the Legion returned to take back the Imperial City. Conversely, an independent Skyrim is still divided between imperial loyalists and Stormcloaks, has none of the Legion's equipment, logistics, or skill, and would be fighting the whole of the Aldmeri army (whereas Hammerfell only had to deal with the smaller of two armies, the larger of which was focussed on Cyrodiil).
It would be cool to see an elder scrolls 6 where the Stormcloaks win and the aldmeri dominion finishes off the empire and a lot of people had to go underground or had ways of having nations safe from the Thalmor. Maybe the people did go underground into the Dwemer ruins and discovered new weapons and artifacts and the lost Dwemer people who could help fight and finish the aldmeri dominion. I could suggest steam powered guns but that maybe too much for an elder scrolls so maybe steam powered repeating crossbows and new types of explosives.
I don't understand why people don't get it Empire lost its Dragonborn spirit and all blessings. If the Empire is damn weak it's not because of Stormcloaks, They lost to Thalmor abandoned most of the provinces and Ulfirc did the right thing to get rid of that useless Empire bound.
Martin septim sacrificed himself as the last dragonblood emperor to defend the world from the forces of Oblivion. To claim their illegitimate because they lost the dragonblood is the exact opposite of the will of the last dragonblood emperor.
The Empire died with Martin Septim and I'll be damned if I serve under these pretenders who sully his name. The Hero of Kvatch and the Blades handed them the greatest victory they ever could have imagined at the close of the Oblivion crisis and these incompetent clowns still bungled it up and let the Thalmor take over. After playing through Oblivion and seeing the state of the Empire in Skyrim I'm completely appalled at how corrupt and pathetic they've become and will purge them from the land no matter what it takes.
Tulius disappoints me, he is by far one of the biggest reasosn I WOULD have to join the empire, he is smart and has that cool soldier vibe. But then he goes and sits in the corner like a btch. Not that I blame him tho, but still
No no, the only real reason that Hammerfell held them off was due to the dominion stretching itself too far. Just look at what happened to Cyrodill when they focused all their attention and resources to the Imperial City. Hammerfell just had extremely favorable conditions(which isn't a diss)
Bully Maguire killed Vittoria Vici - th-cam.com/video/uDOnFCXLJ0M/w-d-xo.html
Fuck ulfrak storm cloak
Rikke remained faithful to Talos even as a nord imperial soldier. Damn faithful imperial.
Even if you side with the imperials and kill Ulfric. She says something like “talos guide you.”
@@TheEmpiresStrongest what was that Legate?
She has the best views on this situation. She doesn't want a war with her brothers and sisters, she just wants to protect her home from the Thalmor.
@@izakireemsi2783 Nothing Sir, Just saying goodbye.
Because the Empire aren't against Talos worship. The aldmeri dominion are.
... and what is even worse is that You take his armor and leave him naked on the floor.
Poor Tullius didn't deserve that.
You don’t have to take his armor
I just wait and take it from his coffin. Not sure if thats better or not but oh well.
Prick tried to cut off my head man, least he can do is give me his kickass, Roman armor.
@@hididdlyhodiddly6019 you mean the captain?
@@hididdlyhodiddly6019 childish comment 💀
Rikke: Ulfic, stop...
Ulfric: Understandable, have a great day.
Nice pfp big respect
@@thatone9462His name is "Sacred Salad" in Portuguese 😂
The dramatic scene was somewhat ruined by the fact that before executing Tullius, both Galmar and Ulfric first had to spend 10 seconds aggressively walking into him.
It just works.
One way to have a dramatic moment I guess.
Come, @otakupatriot117. Where is your sense of the dramatic moment?
@@LoganLS0 16 times the detail
“The Empire I remember never surrendered” that line gave me chills when I did my first play through.
yeah that's why ulfric has surrenedered 3 times in a row.
You picked the stormcucks on your first playthrough? Lame.
And neither did the empire surrender the fought to war to a standstill
Easy to say that when you've already won... Ulfric talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk.
He surrendered to the Thalmor during the Great War and did give them secret information that he believed could have led to the destruction of the capital, he surrended after the Markarth Incident, and he surrended when Tullius captured him in Helgen. He is full of shit
There needs to be the good ending mod that makes you convince everyone to come together to kick thalmor ass in season unending
Season unending could theoretically be canon
@@chasp9369 it could be an extra selection for dialogue that requires speech 100
That's not how war works, unfortunatly.
The Empire couldn't even take on the Thalmor when they were fully united lmaooo
and the Dragonborn wouldn't make a difference at least lore wise because he can be killed just like any other mortal. No. We need to see the Thalmor go through with their plan.
@@NinjaWiener Okay now.
Explain how will the Dragonborn die?
The fucker can deal with a world ending threat so I really doubt that the Thalmor has any chances.
Its weird how on both endings of the war, theres no super strong soldiers there to guard the generals/leaders of each army. Its really only a 3 v 2 instead of like.... 3-4 against 5 strong Legionnaires/Stormcloaks that rival or surpass your current level.
I mean the player counts as a super strong soldier, besides both sides remaining fighters would have been defeated in the city or ran off into thr wilderness
This is painful to watch man. Rikke was what the Stormcloaks should've aspired to be. She was an inspirational figure, not their enemy. But Alas.
she has chosen her own path
It's painful to watch because she threw away her life for nothing.
@@ajsouza3720 it's painful to watch your blockhead comment
@@Rizu-kc3ze Can't argue with the statement so you have to resort to insults eh? Also you read a comment not watch it.
@@ajsouza3720 I can, but it won't be arguing. It's called proving you wrong.
I very rarely see people talk about how amazing a character Rikke is. (Maybe I just don’t participate enough). People always talk about balgruuf, but I think Rikke is about as important, and is only really cast aside because she’s kinda an asshole to you for awhile (and she nearly gets you killed at the start for no good reason.)
She is one of the only characters to me that embodies the “greater good” mentality. She doesn’t fight in Skyrim because it’s her job, or else she would have given up like Tullius. She doesn’t fight in Skyrim because she doesn’t understand the nords, she mourns Ulfrics death and always stick to her nord culture. She just truly believes the empire is the best path for Skyrim and the world.
She also embodied my opinions on the conflict, so maybe I’m bias, but:
Hates Thalmor
Honorable
Respects the brave
Understands nords better than any imperial (just look at the jagged crown quest)
"she nearly gets you killed at The start for no good reason"
A common belief to be demolished, that captain isn't Rikke...who's a Nord, the other an Imperial (race, not only faction)...even 'body size' and height differ...and if fleeing with Ralof you've to kill her to collect the key of keep internal gates, how can her be Rikke if afterwards you spot RIKKE itself at Castle Dour?
She needs to pay for trying to have you killed. So bye Felicia
I believe Balgruuf is actually a shitty person. Rikke is great though.
@@hyejinmoon4882 He forces you to do work for his court (finding the dragon stone, fighting the dragon) before he'll even read your military message. And only makes you a thane after everyone knows you're dragonborn. Balgruff only sees the player as an asset. And look at the state of his children. Idk why everyone loves the guy so much.
@@goatslayer3160 I just never liked how, clearly, little attention he paid to his children and people. Riverwood had NO guards until there was a dragon attack. Walls and outposts and watchtowers crumbling despite getting chests and chests of imperial gold for the white-gold concordant?
Rikke embodied what the nords thought the empire could be. Tulius embodied what it was. The empire gave up and sat by and watched as a nord who fought for what they believe in died
Goddamn that's so true.
I don't agree. Tullius and Rikke were willing to play the long game, it was a plan that they knew they would have to execute in order to sustain a revolution against the Thalmor. They knew that if they wanted to defeat the Thalmor, they would need all of Tamriel together, including Skyrim.
Ulfric just has his mind set on his interest and the Nords' but it wouldn't take to much time for the Thalmor to regain control over Skyrim. And not many people are willing to fight for the Nordic ideals apart from the Nords.
I think Tullius knew he couldn't win that fight, no matter what he does. It must not be easy to think after everything you've done, you end up losing all.
Your comment is wrong.
@@Heigxion don’t waste your words, bro. Stormcloak supporters have peas for brains
Exactly
Tbh, besides handing Markarth directly over to the family responsible for its corruption, this is one of the parts of the Stormcloak questline that made me the most uncomfortable. Wish you could just accept Tullius' surrender, poor guy looks so despondent sitting on the bench as Ulfric and Galmar march in. End the bloodshed and send him back to the Empire in shame.
nah, if tullius wins he literally says he'll kill ulfric either way. he shouldnt expect mercy when he himself would not give it out
@@joshuasharma1765 I'm the Dragonborn and Tullius also wanted to kill me. Be better.
@@Guy_GuyGuy Tullius should be better.
Same things happen to riften if you choose the Imperials
Nah better giving him an honorable death
I wished that if you completed the Stormcloak Path, that you could challenge Ulfric for the throne of High King, but only if you're a Thane in each hold.
Even Balgruuf beats Ulfric. Dragonborn would kill him with his spit :P
@@ladyselin35 rather, with a fork, which would be even funnier
@@ladyselin35 As much as I love Balgruuf, Ulfric is powerful more than most NPCs, especially since he's blessed with the voice.
@@TheJesielpenateshow Blessed? Its Kyne's gift to people , plus using voice for your political gains is against the way of the voice. He literally murdered high king using his voice betrayed the Greybeards , to high king to empire. Greybeards say we use voice and follow way of the voice but you are dragonborn your path is different. Ulfric wasnt even loyal to his promise when his education begun to be a greybeard.
@@ladyselin35 Yes it's blessed by Kyne despite you being triggered. He consented to the dual it's not murdered. Otherwise, he wouldn't be in Soverngard, had refused the dual. And no the Empire betrayed the people, betrayed the Nords who helped retake the imperial city and the Gods, all 9 of them. When they started to put politics above faith.
And no, the voice was used for self-defence not just for worship hence the ancient nords were blessed by Kyne to fight for freedom under an oppressive tranny, in this case, dragons. Hold truth now against the Empire and the Dominion. I don't you understand but Ulfric is blessed, Kyne like the rest of the 8, and more so with Akatosh are blessed and cursed with prescience. Had Kyne thought it was not a good idea, she wouldn't have given him the power or be a catalyst of radical change.
Solitude is a beautiful city. It's a pity that after this attack it's all wrecked.
from how important the rebellion is to the main overall atmosphere of Skyrim and how much this storyline does to the world itself I think it's best left as one of the last major things the player does in a playthrough
ngl sometimes I side with the imperials because idc if windhelm goes to shit. It’s already such a depressing city
@@jennahinckley8216 Especially with all the racism there
Solitude is full of Imperial bootlicks like Eriker ready to sellout Skyrim while they appease their Imperial masters who in turn appease their Aldmeri masters. Any Nord with self respect and dignity will reject that.
@@mechadoggy Racism don't matter Dark Elves aren't good people prior to their mountain exploding.
None of this would happen if Alduin didn't interfere, lucky bastard
The u would be dead
Honestly i always sided with the Empire in most of my playthrough, but i think Stormcloack victory is beter for ES6 plot, i want ES6 start with the Empire(Cyrodiil) Fall or split like Ancient Rome ,either by Corruption or coup and the its up to Highrock,Hammerfell and Skyrim to fight againts Thalmor or something like that.
With a splintered defence like that, there's no way the other provinces will be able to last against the Thalmor invasion.
I'm the same, as I've written before, I fully support the Empire, but a Stormcloak victory would be more interesting plot wise.
@@physical_insanity Yes they would.
@@physical_insanity well, Hammerfell did defend itself. High Rock might be able to resist, since bretons and orcs are magical sponges and, respectively, really good mages and fighters, and just like the natural defenses in the swamps of Black Marsh, High Rock is filled with mountains, really freakin hard to invade a mountain or a swamp. But, not Skyrim, they're weak, the country is starving, the economy is non-existing thanks to the rebellion, magic is bad viewed thanks to Winterhold, the Empire is the last line of defense they have, Ulfric is opening his arms to Dominion, whether he wants or not. So, in conclusion, Skyrim, Cyrodiil, Valenwood and Elsweyr (these last two are already slave-like estate servants of the Thalmor) are fcked if the Empire falls, but the other provinces are fine, I guess. Morrowind has the best mages in Tamriel, they only lost to Argonia because of numbers, and the Summerset Isles don't have that either.
I think a imperial victory would be best for es6. If you listen to what the general says when siding with empire you realize that the empire is (secretly) planning to take down the alderi dominion once they have the fighting power
2:52 Folded like a crouton
This statement is a culinary insult
It blows my mind that we never got a DLC/Expansion that lets us give this war closure by finally confronting the Thalmor and going to battle against them. Ending this war is not satisfying because both factions imply that the Thalmor are the True enemy and despite our efforts and desire to battle the Thalmor we got nothing...
The true enemy was alduin, but it wouldn't make sense to fight the thalmor yet since they're being built up for future games
Bethesda aren't obsidian
I hope that ES6 is about the second great war, and maybe the Thalmor's attempt to bring about a new Merethic Era, since that is their ultimate goal.
Or maybe one where you say, "Fuck both your factions! I'm starting my own!"
That’s because Skyrim is 5th in a series. We will see either the effects of that war or be involved in it with a future game.
The imperial side has a much more positive tone to me. The stormcloaks loyalists will still likely give there all to defeat the thalmor in the next Great War, especially when Talos worship is legalized again.
That was the Moment for me i thought: maybe i chose the wrong side
@@romeohio19 haha wrong for what? For fighting for freedom? For a dying empire that continue genocide on its own people? Nah, it's cannon Stormcloaks will win, with a new Coalition with Hammerfell and Morrowind.
@@robmichaels8210 lol Ulfric divided what could have been one of the only forces strong enough to stand against the Thalmor. You really think the best way to face the full might of the Aldmeri Dominion and all three of it's allied nations (two of which are straight OP) by fracturing what little you do have even further? And If you really think that Skyrim would win against the dominion by itself and that Hammerfell would go anywhere near another great war again you're deeply mistaken. Also, none of what you said is cannon not to mention that Morrowind is still recovering from Red Mountain's eruption and the subsequent Argonian invasions. Say less
@@digitaldruglord1815 Sorry but Ulfric didn't do anything other than fight for his people out of slavery and genocide. To stop the empire from enforcing laws to forbid people of their faith and allowing the Thalmor to roam free to take them out of the night to accuse anyone of a slight glance to be then interrogated to torture and violence? Yeah, because Morrowind and Hammerfell hate the empire for their treacherous action, which led their people to death and suffering.
And no, in the conclusion of the Civil War quest, Ulfric makes the claim that they have no intentions of invading the Dominion, other than rebuilding and strengthening their armies to prepare when the elves start acting up again. And yes it is cannon, seeing there's more hidden banter between Ulfric and Galmar, and that it's vanilla that Dragonborn is a Nord, and the Dragonborn of the past are vengeful, violent and spare no mercy. He'll take up the role of Ysmir/Wulfarth. Seeing the High Rock and Hammerfell in the next Elder Scroll 6 trailer, it seems the empire will collapse, and a new empire will emerge possibly High Rock succeeding Cyrodill as the next leading empire of man.
Too bad that Skyrim has a strong weapon known as the Dragonborn. The one who matches alduin
@@Tuturial464It doesn't. After every tes game the player character disappears after completing the main quest and dlc
But even if that didn't happen, you could just as easily say the same for the empire, the dragonborns side, if he plays any role hasn't been confirmed so you're arguemnet makes 0 sense 😂😂😂
Tullius is spitting straight facts ... his explanation is why I usually lean towards Imperials more than Stormcloaks...
The empire's plan is to wait until they are strong enough to challenge the thalmor, except it has been 30 fkin years, thats an entire generation of soldiers, and they did nothing, and with every passing day the thalmor put more laws and kidnap more nords, further weakining the empire, it may feel bad in game to join the stormcloaks, but from a war standpoint they are 100% the right choice, especially considering skyrim's borders are with hammerfell where the resistance agaisnt the thalmor is well and kicking.
@@razaaten387 from a war standpoint the storm cloaks are the WORST choice LMAO
In the long run the only other nation you can possibly ally Skyrim with is hammerfell because they’re the only other nation where the aldmeri dominion isn’t in charge. Aside from allies you also weaken most of Skyrim with the war killing most capable fighters. You literally have a band of rebels to defend ALL of Skyrim. The empire at least had reinforcements and not just nords. That’s the next point, the nords are racist af and that in and of itself is reason enough to not join them. Ulfric even says he REALIZES shit is bad in windhelm and doesn’t intend to change things.
The empire path at least gives Skyrim allies and a support system. If the empire did decide to turn against the dominion then Skyrim is allied with Cyrodil and other nations. After they rebel you can convince hammerfell to join the cause as well. The imperial path is definitely the only “good” choice for the war plot line and most of the /nords/ in the game will even agree to that.
@@recalcitrance2561 that would only be the case if the empire actually did something, instead they waste time, and alot of it. Think about it, their plan is to keeo buying time until they are strong enough, but the thalmor arent stupid, they know this, and they are actively weakining the empire, day by day the empire loses more men, and more allies, we know this from books at the thalmor embassy, they even planned this whole rebillion to weaken the empire, they kidnap nords who worship talos and those always happen to be hardened soldiers, Ulfric realizes that with every day skyrim spends with the empire, it loses more and more, the literal only way to break free is to strike against the empire and become free NOW, so that he at least has time to regroup when the thalmor do attack, instead of just bleeding out soldiers, and might i remind you that hammerfell ALSO broke away from the empire, and they are the only place where the resistance is still going
@@razaaten387 you realize you just proved my point.
You said the thalmor PLANNED the rebellion so that the empire loses men. So realistically the storm cloaks winning IS WHAT THEY WANT. You realize now nothing is stopping them from invading Skyrim? If the imperials win at least they can’t attack Skyrim because then there would be a valid reason for EVERYONE to turn on them.
I’m just saying the empire is realistically the smartest option if you are anti thalmor. Yes you ally with them, but you know what they say. “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer”.
@@razaaten387 also hammerfell is only doing so well because redguards are lorewise busted as fuck lmao they’re the most ideal warriors only comparable by nords who in my opinion would still get wrecked by redguards.
I will agree though that if somehow the storm cloaks could muster the numbers after the rebellion to form an army (because we have to remember that the imperial force in Skyrim and the storm clock rebellion were not armies by any means. Both groups has very small numbers even when considering they were in a civil war.) and if hammerfell can prevent more Saadia situations from happening, then honestly hammerfell and Skyrim would be a TERRIFYING adversary. But at the same time the dominion wins just by sheer numbers and recourses. You gotta think about trade as well. There are no supplies getting to hammerfell and the same would happen to a stormcloak Skyrim if they weren’t allied with Cyrodil anymore. They could simply be starved out to a dominion victory.
*Me knowing the implications of a Stormcloak victory
*looks at Ulfric "Thing's just got out of hand"
I just completed my Stormcloak playthrough, and despite Ulfric asking me to kill Tullius with his sword, I used the upgraded, full Unrelenting Force shout to turn Tullius to ash. Seemed more quick and merciful than a sword and I didn't want Ulfric to have the satisfaction of killing a surrendering man.
Buddy... it consumes his soul, doesn't it?🥴
Granted, the Empire he remembered never surrenders.
hah, i did the opposite. I killed Tullius and now that mf is in Soul Cairn
Tullius and Torygg just chilling in the afterlife bonding over how the power of the Thu'um screwed the Empire over twice in a row (three, if Titus eats a Fus Ro Dah as well).
So, in my Dragonborn's backstory, she was actually a Legionairre until she said no to killing some stormcloaks who can't fight because they're either Amputees, or extremely sick. They throw he in the cart to Helgen for that. And Alduin attacks, so she goes through, does the main quest. Deals with the Civil War (Making the temporary truce) and kills Alduin, then she does the Dawnguatd Questline (Vampire, I need to come upbwith a good reason why she chooses that), kind becomes Best friends with Serana, and some point cures herself and ends up heading to Soulstiem for the Dragonborn quest line, does that, Kind of becomes Herma Mora's champion (does nothing with that), and heads back to skyrim, at this point, she raising the daughter of a dead friend of her's, and notices how much worse the civil war is getting and decides she want to do something about it. But the imperials tried to chop her head off, and the stormcloaks where actually losing, and at this point she wants Little more death. She knows she can end it by joining either side. But being Half Nord (in game I just tune the Imperial race, but she's half Nord, half Imperial in the backstory Or just story versions of her), she did see some appeal to the stormcloaks, however, she had noticed the Argonians and Dunmer there too, and thought that if the Imperials Laid siege to Windhelm, which is already falling to ruins, they would get killed for being simple bystanders, and she decided to try to, I'm a small way rebuild the Ebonheatt pact with that. Obviously it wasn't easy (not at all, because of some 'spy' in the corner club), but she accomplished it essentially giving thesrormcloals three Provinces that they could attack from, which is what trigger the Negotiations, once again at High Hrothgar, this time without the blades, or Thalmor interrupting, and form Avianca that, lead by the Dragonborn pushed the Thalmor back to the Summerset isle, but no further, and placed siege equipment on they're coastlines as if to mock them. Ulrich and Tullius are both killed in push however, Tullius was beyond saving, and the best Anyone could do for ulfric was used reverse engineered Dwemmer tech to find a way to intur him in a Similar Setup to the Emperor of Mankind and Gulliman (until his ne gf, that is, but that doesn't happen to Ulfric, he just ends up staying there, unmoving, and unconscious forever), essentially Rikke gets Tullius' position, the Moot meets, and Selects a new high king. The Dragonborn however, pretty much returns to her Adopted Daughter, and Lives out her life.
I really apologize for my wall of text, I don't normally get to share this, and I didn't mean it to get this long. Sorry...
You're really creative, I've enjoyed reading your lore. Keep up, lad!
@@victorcabral232 thank you
You know, you can actually still have Serana as a follower even if you refused Harkon's offer.
Go outside, find grass, then touch it
Is no one gonna mention how they both just pushed Tullius before putting him outta his misery
I think both sides are right, in a way.
The Mede Empire is nowhere near as powerful or glorious as the Septim Empire, and Skyrim would probably be better off on its own, BUT that's just not a good idea while the Thalmor are a threat.
No, the empire allowing the people of Skyrim to be abandoned and sacrificed while they do nothing about the Thalmor is worse. They have the troops and the power.
But can a nation stand against the Dragonborn who equals the world shattering alduin?
Maybe after a victory against the dominion as an award or something. Maybe possibly getting an alliance with the empire or forming a Commonwealth of Man that would replace the Empire
And general tullius is just sittin there, arms crossed, nothing to say
He pretty much was giving up remember
Went on full surrender mode speechless till the end
Just show exactly why I side with the imperials
Shame how tulius was so quiet and letting her legate die to her beliefs knowing a handful of stormcloak barbarians is not enough to stop the thalmor itself
The empire was the last hope of stopping them
Losing the great war should have never been a thing to give up on
Better yet from what I hear
A united army of tamriel and not just the empire alone can stop the thalmor
Precisely, he's the representation of the Empire. Old tired and declining to continue fighting.
@Arronic People also forget the Thalmor had the Eye of Vaermina during the war. They had perfect information and still were only to establish a truce.
Without the Eye of Vaermina the empire would have been the ones deciding the terms of the treaty.
@@IC-23How did the thalmor lose Battle of red ring with the eye?
@@Reporge Because the Forgotten Hero, Laaneth, Tyr, and some farming equipment infiltrated the city through some smuggling tunnels and either stole/destroyed the orb
The words that stick in my head are Ulfric's. "The Empire I remember never surrendered."
Thats why he got so good with the thalmor and elenwen huh
It's kind strange Ulfric forgot that he got captured by the thalmor and did in fact surrendered to them secret information that he believed to have led to the capture of the capital...
"I knew I heard something!"
The amount of reality checks you get as a Stormcloak vs an Imperial really makes you wonder what side you’re really on. At least you can use the Jagged Crown to give yourself a second chance. The question is, will you take it?
No,decapitate thalmor boot licker! Imperials claim to hate the thalmor as any other man yet enforce their laws,appease their nation and sell out their own people to them.
@@user-nn6go1jx1h The alternative is another Great War. Forget the Empire, all of Tamriel wouldn’t survive. Even High Elves from Summerset hate the Thalmor.
@@user-nn6go1jx1h They have to, until they rebuild their army for another great war, the empire in skyrim is pretty weak.
Tullius in the end was kinda right, Ulfric just weakened the possible fighting force against the Thalmor even more, and when you kill Ulfric and see him in Sovngarde, he admits as much, even if the stormcloaks and empire teamed up to fight the Thalmor, the cohesion of all troops being under one command and banner is kinda lost
No really that big of a loss since due to the way Skyrims landscape is the thalmor would have a hard time invading and ending the war asap means less lives lost and with the low birth rates elves have the thalmor likely haven't recovered from their losses since the great war.
Skyrim can also team up with Hammerfell, as the Redguards gave the Thalmor a black eye.
@@CompassRoseGamingExcept the redguards won't go for any alliance. Them holding off the Dominion coupled with a massive distrust of outsiders leaves them no reason for an alliance in their mind.
Ohh no, we can't ally with a weakened empire anymore. What are we gonna do?
@@luizmarinho6138 Lose the war, thats what. That "Weakened empire" is still on its own, stronger than the entirety of Skyrims military force.
it's such a shame there isn't a 3rd option to unite the 2 sides. General Tullius is 100% right, this is exactly what the Dominion wants!! The Empire tearing itself apart from within, the fact that Ulfric can't see that the White Gold concordant is just a cease fire, and that the war WILL eventually continue is just so ridiculous. "omg we can't worship Talos" so what!! That is such a minor inconvenience to gain the time needed to prepare and regroup for the war to start again. Worship in private maybe? Look at Rikke!! She still worships Talos!! She just does it privately cause she understands the Dominion is also gearing up and regrouping for war again. It really bothers the heck outta me that Ulfric refuses to see this.
Sucks that they didn’t have an option to have war with the Thalmor.
As a kid I always killed Tulius... but now I realize Tulius would be the better choice...
I wished you could challenge Ulfric for the title of High King right as you defeat the Empire
A sort of poetic justice forcing him into the same situation he did Torygg, because I sure as hell ain't letting Ulfric be the leader of a free Skyrim. The only reason he ever got as far as he has was because of the Dragonborn, and the Dragonborn wouldn't stop with just Skyrim, but the entirety of Tamriel itself!
Tamriel should have a Dragonborn High King
You need to be a Jarl to challenge the High King. There's no skipping ahead.
@@DarkAdonisVyers My undead dragon says otherwise. :)
@@alan62036 I remember when I was as edgy and hot-blooded as you are. Kids these days.
Entirety of Tamriel? LOL. And how would he do that, by screaming? Damn Skyrim fans, always edgy and ignorant.
Tullius’ victory over Ulfric shows that he was not after fortune and fame, but there to finish the job he was brought to do. His intent was pure and logical, and he knew that the violent silencing of the rebellion, as bad as it is, would allow the Empire to stand its ground against the Thalmor.
On the other hand, Ulfric’s victory over Tullius shows that he’s an egomaniacal ruler who only cares about being remembered and known by history books and poems. Even at Tullius’ notion “The Rebellion exists to weaken the empire against the Thalmor”, he states that “This is more than just a rebellion”, showing how egocentric he is.
Makes sense, as he is literally a Thalmor asset.
This is far from the truth.
The Empire is nothing more than the thalmors puppet. They literally run around kidnapping and murdering innocent Nords UNDER IMPERIAL RULE. His intent was not pure, his intent is weak and he is a fool to think the empire (which is barely standing) can stand any chance against the thalmor. As Galmore said “the day the empire signed that damn treaty, is the day the empire died”
As for Ulfric, although some of his men are racist and bigoted and are super “SKYRIM ARE FOR THE NORDS” kinda folk it does not make him that. Actually there is no proof in the game that suggest what he is leading the rebellion for himself.
A Stormcloak victory is a MUST, if Tameriel wants to stand a chance against the thalmor.
The Empire being the Thalmor's puppet is just propaganda made by the Stormcloaks to make themselves look better. Tullius, the Empire, and even the Aldmeri Dominion knows that the White-Gold Concordat is nothing but a prelude to the 2nd Great War. Hence why the Thalmor is in Skyrim to radicalize the Nords and why even tho they captured Ulfric, they later "released" him, then later on, he caused the Civil War, all of which being very convenient to the Thalmor. Which is why Tullius was sent to Skyrim, to organize the Nords and be focused for the 2nd war on the horizon.
As for Ulric, he literally does nothing for the Dunmer living in Windhelm, he intentionally doesn't let the Argonians in the city, and whenever a Khajiit caravan gets raided, he doesn't lift a finger, so nah, I'm pretty sure he's that kinda guy.
The Stormcloak's cause, the Civil War, and Ulfric himself dances to the rhythm of the Dominion, all of which only dooms Tamriel with Skyrim dragging down the Empire's preparation to the 2nd Great War
@@Jerry-wx3bf Thalmor literally state an Imperial victory harms them, kid.
My respect for Rikke shot up when I first saw this scene. Golden standard for the Empire to live up to.
Rikke '' is that what you want shield brothers torn each other apart?''
He just said he spared her life
She was talking about the whole rebellion
Tullius's soul was then trapped and used to enchant my butt scratcher for all eternity
Its a shame the civil war quests are so underwhelming.
I wish they expanded these quest and make it feel like an actual war. That would be so amazing.
It's hilarious that the Stormcloaks still look like the villains in their own campaign.
Almost as if one path is actually better than the other....
@@romeohio19 Bethesda would never make it as clear cut as that.
@@romeohio19 Sybille Stentor is Molag Bal witch anyways who practices devilish art in Solitude prison, I wouldn't take no credibility from her.
@@romeohio19 I think it's more that Bethesda went really surface level with their whole "moral ambiguity' thing.
Originally, Ulfric was supposed to be with you and Ralof in Helgen Keep, but the devs realized that would make it too easy to make the Stormcloaks sympathetic to the player.
I like how Rikke says that without the Empire,Skyrim doesn´t have a chance against the Dominion and just as all their followers, Galmar and Ulfric completely ignore that point.
The whole rebellion was just such a fuck you too everyone trying to band together and face the Thalmor. Not to mention Titus Mede's peace treaty that straight up saved millions
The empire had a chance and they ignored the people of Skyrim. They had built up their forces and sacrificed people in Skyrim. And unjustly captured the Dragonborn about to be executed.
@@Tuturial464 They didn't know that was the Dragonborn?
The only reason why I sided with the stromclocks was that the empire wanted to kill me without a trial. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't justifies executing innocent people.
The most hilarious comment I stumbled accross empire supporter player justified their own character death that they play.
Paraphrasing
"they need to speed up the list or else Ulfric may escape."
-Forget the list s/he goes to the block probably
Lol if you died that is it. Ulfric/Tullius is dead and Tamriel is doom because Imperial decide to kill the one thing that can stop Alduin.
@@stump4522 imperials continues to take Ls, theyre done, empire truly is gone, fake emperors and arent dragonborns also no more blades
Tbf, they might've looked into it if Ralof wasn't talking to us and that thief like comrades. Very incriminating.
That is why the imperials are not fit. They sacrificed many innocent people.
@@Tuturial464that justifies racism against khaijits,orcs,dunmer by the stormcloaks
Lmao an altmer was in the legion because how much he hated the thalmor
2:42 that radiant A.i system again..
So I was somewhat traumatized when doing this scene because I had a bunch of sex lab mods installed, I have no shame about that, but what happened filled me with regret. They beat Tullius to the ground, and when they were about to murder Rikke, Ulfric walked up and sexually assaulted her right in front of General Tullius. He then brutally killed her, before finally finishing Tullius off. I immediately second-guessed my allegiance to the Stormcloaks. 😬
So... Immersive
@@ledanoir1239 A little bit too immersive
Lol
Holy crap, that sounds intense.
can you give me the names of all these mods? asking for a friend ofcourse
**Rikke literally standing right in front of them**
I K N E W I H E A R D S O M E T H I N G
Just when I was getting emotionally invested in the characters, story and dialogue Skyrim's dumbass AI ruins the moment.
Ulfric was honest and believed he was doing the right thing, however he ended up being an invaluable asset to the Thalmor by rebelling. Galmar just seems bloodthirsty.
Ulfric just really annoys me, he so clearly knows that he's playing into the Thalmor's hands but either doesn't care or welcomes it.
Well I guess thalmor dossier on him is saying the truth.
He just doesn't care. He really thinks he can keep them out of Skyrim just on raw Nordic grit.
He's a fool.
@@emberZemian you are forgetting the Last Dragonborn. Also, these is a reason why the player gets to choose a side in the war. Whether the Stormcloaks or the Empire win, the Thalmor will take over. The Last Dragonborn will assure a fighting chance for Skyrim and both Tulius and Ulfric know that.
@@Strato_Casterrr9898 that's pure bs, by ES games aftermath lore standards
@@Rizu-kc3ze true, but, let me remind you of Dragon Breaks. Skyrim is the second game that let us choose sides in a war, the first being Daggerfall, and in Daggerfall, every choice the Player made was canon. The Last Dragonborn will play a major role after the civil war, and a Dragon Break will occur.
I remember when I first played Skyrim, I initially sided with the stormcloaks. I felt horrible after the battle of whiterun, and right as we were about to kill general Tullius I turned on ulfric and started attacking him, ready to kill him. But I couldn’t do it because the game didn’t allow me. So after the whole thing I felt so awful about it that I restarted the game all over again and made a new save with the same character.
After years of watching her on Babylon 5, hearing Claudia Christian half-assing it in Skyrim was painful.
It's like she's reading the dialogue for the first time.
Dude the VAs *were.* They were given their lines in alphabetical order and given absolutely no direction for any of them. I think the only ones who did were the main quest ones.
I mean... this is Bethesda, she probably was...
@@ajsouza3720 It is even more painfully obvious in the polish dubbing that this is the way it happened - characters speak in excited voice about normal things, angry when things are normal, sad when there's nothing to be said about etc. because the actors who dubbed these translated lines tried to put some emotion into what they were saying but had no context about why characters say that. Worst instances are when the lines are just one or two words, cause thats when they had the least context. For example you have a chill converstation with a person thanking you for what you did, and at the end of being very grateful, suddenly they say furiously say "GOOD BYE" instead of saying it in a normal way
@@ajsouza3720 That was the case in Oblivion, not in Skyrim. A lot of the acting in Skyrim is pretty decent.
Help the way Tullius was just sitting on that bench for the entire conversation-
They could have renounced the province like with Hammerfel. Only greed made them waste all the blood and time trying to conquer skyrim.
Hear hear.
Why was Torygg killed?
"Because Ulfric needed a symbol. Someone he could defeat who represented the Empire, the White-Gold Concordat, the banning of Talos worship. Torygg's father Istlod had held Skyrim together for nearly twenty-five years. When he died, Torygg became that symbol."
So the war started when Istlod died? "No. Even after Istlod died, the Moot voted to make Torygg High King of Skyrim. But Ulfric was at that moot, continually talking about Skyrim's independence in terms just shy of treason. I don't think Ulfric knew how much Torygg respected him for that. If Ulfric had asked Torygg directly to stand up, to declare independence, Torygg might have done it."
Why didn't Torygg ever declare independence?
" Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire. And Torygg wasn't ready to let it fall apart."
Sybille Stentor
@@fabriziodefrancesco7083 Taking all the sources from an Imperial.
You ignore that the Empire is taxing Skyrim hard, mentioned by Ulfric and Galmar. That doesnt go in favor of the Empire helping skyrim with resources, as you wouldnt do that and tax the shit out of them. Also, they have those taxes on Skyrim but they wont defend it Skyrim from the Thalmor. They dont care that the Nords are being kidnapped and killed. Nothing matters as long as Cyrodill is safe. That is the "true" Empire.
The Empire is doing to Skyrim just like they did to Morrowind and Hammerfell, turning their backs and draining them off of their resources. They didnt help the Dunmer when they were in need, instead they took their troops from Morrowind to defend Cyrodill. They didnt send troops to Hammerfell, instead, a general, who went against the Empires order, sent some troops.
The Empire says that Skyrim needs them, but in reality, just like before, it is the empire that needs Skyrim.
The Nords should do like the Dunmer and the Redguards and leave the Empire for good.
Edit: Torygg liking and supporting Ulfric is something only one NPC knows. Ulfric Obviously had no clue of that. For him, Torygg is the same guy that turned his back on him in Markath. No one knew of his support for Ulfric except for Sybille Stentor, so it cant be used as evidence for Ulfric being a barbarian.
@@jijijijijiji44 Galmar doesn't count likewise, he's simply UNLISTENEABLE ...even when chose TWICE the Stormcloaks I had soon enough of him and his hatred ravings
But Sybille is the unique who knows or the unique who ADMITS all that?
@@fabriziodefrancesco7083 Sybille Stentor is the only one who knew about it. No one else mentions it. If anyone else knew that Torygg supported the rebellion, it would paint him as a traitor to the empire and basically enemy to the Thalmor. It would be stupid to think that everyone knew such a thing, because it would be damaging to the Kings image.
Also, no Jarl knew about it. No high ranking person knew either. Hell, not even General Tullius or Legate Rikke knew anything about Toryggs support for the Stormcloaks.
Galmar is a man of heart. He fights for what he deems right. Yo cant hate such pure love for his comrades and country. He forces conflict with the Empire, yes. But if that were bad, then you should also hate Tullius, as he wanted to give up Whiterun based solely on his hatred for the Nords.
lol tullius is just sittin' there, that's the Empire's General
tell me, what would you do in that situation? You're already beaten. And if you do manage to kill the three of them, what's next? Do you expect to waltz out like nothing happened?
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew i'm not talking about killing anyone, i'm talking about standing up and die like a general, like a warrior, not like a virgin uncle in his 40s
@@ikr233 You're already beaten, so what would be the point?
@@ZeldagigafanMatthew that's how a loser would think about it
@@Pietro.52 crazy how you say i'm a virgin when you follow minecraft and anime channels 😭
iv'e never sided with the storm cloaks and never will. Seeing this ending for the first time just makes me more sure i always pick right lol.
Seeing how they where ready to spare her? Get real the empire isnt any better then the stormcloaks. Hell they were ready to kill you simply for trying to cross a border as if you were a criminal. The stormcloaks may be racist but at least they dont kill innocent people
@@jismeraiverhoeven Dont kill innocent people? Really?
@@zachkup6161 I knew it. Stormcloak supporters are brain dead and shortsighted. 💀😆😆😆
@@jismeraiverhoeven I think the reason the execution was rushed and that innocent people were condemned was to try and execute Ulfric before the Thalmor interfered, which they were trying to do as you enter Helgen. Tullius is aware of the "cold war" the Thalmor are waging against the Empire, and taking any chances would mean greater risk of some kind of "miraculous escape" for the Stormcloak leader.
One person? Tullius and the imperials have killed more innocent people and sacrificed them to the thalmor
Rikke: "Ulfric. Stop."
Me: "No, stop, don't, come back."
I'd rather side with the stormcloaks only because it will make for a much more interesting story for tes VI. Fighting for the empire is the more reasonable choice but it's boring. I'd prefer having a more complicated political situation in tes VI.
And killing skyrim's people as an Imperial ain't boring? Is the same quest line... But i could not kill the nords who believe in a better homeland for themselves.
Fighting for the Empire is not reasonable, you're fighting for a decayed corpse that has done nothing but rot for 25 years and is completely paralyzed by Thalmor agents everywhere in its military.
If empire decided to not surrender then ulfric would be deader then the empire don’t you think
@@micahandmichelle4201 the problem is not what has been done many years ago the problem is how the. Empire is kissing their Boots.
How tho imperials need to win if anyone stuck in the past it’s ulfric nerfing the empire even if he wins thalmor would attack sooner then if was empire and we’ll Skyrim would be token over bye thalmor ulfric is done Skyrim is done but stromcloaks have more entertaining ending
I think no matter what the end result is the same. The empire says are numbered in the civil war you see only brothers and sisters fighting for the same ideal with a different result. The issue is that the empire stood and allowed this to go in the long run, the empire fighting back is not guaranteed to happen in some of these peoples life span it’s already been 30 years since and it seems that the soldiers are ready for round 2 but the empire shows no rush in the matter they could’ve easily squashed Ulfric rebellion Im positive they are aware the Thalmor have their hands in almost everything involving their downfall but yet countless Nords died, Nords are a big part of the empire and are the glue without them the empire will surely make drastic actions to either reclaim their lost territory or the thalmor
you can watch this before joining sides, so you can safely choose the Imperials. Period. Ulfric's and his brute's plain stupidity and egoism is summarized clearly here
Tulius might be the most selfless of the two, but I'll be a damned fool if I was completely okay clinging to a dysfunctional husk of the Septim empire run by an emperor who killed thousands of his own people for a pryhicc victory only to sign away the treaty once he got his capital back. Hammerfell seceded, Morrowind held the title of Province in vain for years. You don't have to buy everything Ulfric sells to be on the same boat as his.
@@hansalanson3497 his boat is going to lead to the the destruction of skyrim though
Skyrim won't be able to defend against the dominion alone and no one else is going to want to help the Nords
Ulfric should have waited until just after the 2nd war with the dominion to rebel
@@jackmakila3776 So, you rather have them upstart a rebellion from the Empire after the Dominion decided to land the final blow to anyone who associate with the Septim emblem? How is that any wiser? Skyrim could already be vasal state of the Aldmeri by that point. I'd say they have more chance seceding and create international alliance with Hammerfell or even Morrowind if it decides to do the same rather than waiting for the conclusion of a second war that nobody is certain of.
@@jackmakila3776 Skyrim has the best chance to defend against the dominion. It has the best natural borders of any country, followed by Black Marsh. It is 3 to 4 countries away from the Dominion, which would mean that the Thalmor would have to go through the Empire (or what is left of it) first and then to Skyrim
Skyrim is also being drained off its resources by the Empires Taxes. They got Thalmor taking their families and the Empire doing nothing. They should have never accepted such a thing. Once Skyrim regains independence, they will invest on their own people and become stronger.
What Imperials dont know, is that the Empire is constantly weaking Skyrim with their demands. The Nords are being asked to provide for the Empire that betrayed them and that is constantly sucking them dry of resources.
The Empire's main goal is to defend Cyrodill, and it doesnt care about defending the other provinces. They betrayed Morrowind and Hammerfell by not sending troops in times of need, and even more, taking troops from them. Same thing they are doing to Skyrim. The empire is trying to save itself at the cost of everyone else. Skyrim should do like Morrowind and Hammerfell and leave that shell of an Empire. The Empire knows that it needs Skyrim more than Skyrim needs the Empire.
Ulfric every time. Will never do an Imperial playthrough.
In my current playthrough for Skyrim AE Switch Edition, I have a Breton female, and her story so far is, of course, she is the link between elves and Humans/Nords being the biology of Bretons. She is political and strategic she sides with the Stormcloaks and hates the empire for almost executing her, though she knows some are good. she dislikes the thalmor due to of course history and because they "side" with the empire. After finding out she is dragonborn, she comes to the realization she could become quite powerful and potentially be the next emperor/empress of tamriel. As the daughter of akatosh, her goal is to become thane of all cities in skyrim and (now going into fantasy) becoming the high queen of skyrim. In turn, uniting the region and taking the fight to the Thalmor.
It's never ceases to amaze me how gay larping or making shit up is. It's a video game bro. You sound retarded.
Women have such amazing imaginations. Love it
Realized I've never seen this interaction at all. I always end up killing Ulfric.
imagine getting this far and realizing Ulfric is a thalmor sympathizer
He's not tho. The Thalmor don't consider him cooperative.
@@haarp9069it’s in the middle. He hates the Thalmor, but as Tullius says, he only helps the Thalmor by rebelling to the point that the Thalmor considers him an asset.
As a former nord/stormcloak player, by the nines how Ulfric is so egotistic and blinded
And tulius such a wonderful figure
@@muri5212 that's right
Does he go to sovngarde if I soultrap him first?
The only reason I side with the empire is because I refuse to ally with someone like Ulfric.
I never liked having to kill Rikke.
I don’t mind, she was gonna kill you
I just let Ulfric and Galmar kill her and focus on Tullius. She's their ex-comrade so they can deal with it.
I forgot he offers surrender. I would have sparred him and sent him home as a measure of good faith. But I'm not in charge.
I would have sent his head back home as a warning to Imperial interlopers. Considering how many times Tullius expresses his desire to see Ulfric's head on a pike in the Legion campaign, it would only be fitting for him to suffer the same fate.
@@silversnail1413 it shows the measure of a man willing to show mercy to those he has defeated.
@@SuperLumianaire Well, don't worry, Tullius defintely does not share your concerns... cough cough, Helgen
@@mausolus8466 hahahaha! Good point. Although it's still something I would have done but I would have pointed out to him his soldiers were not going to extend that same courtesy to myself.
@@mausolus8466 Tulius was about to end the war in Helgen. The Dragonborn illegally crossed the border at the wrong time.
I love how Skyrim doesn't change the battle voicelines for NPC's. It could be a serious moment the they could say something like "Is someone there?" Lmao
Ulfric is right, but he isn’t being the bigger man about this.
The empire should have given Skyrim freedom and had them as an ally. Civil war averted.
That being said Ulfric was upsetting the status quo, so he could have been the bigger man and focused on the common enemy.
Ulfric is wrong, he's just a pissy boy with ego problems and all he ever wanted was power. If the empire didn't sign the White-Gold concordat, there would be no nord left in skyrim to claim it is theirs in the first place. Stormcloacks are just ungrateful pricks.
The empire losing Skyrim is an official death sentence to it. You’re forgetting the empire literally only lived during the Great War because of the battle of the red ring, a battle where everyone basically suicide charges the imperial capitol. A massive chunk of this legion was nord. Nords would not suicide charge to save the capitol of foreign oppressors.
Along with that, half of Skyrim didn’t want to be free. Ulfric has to actively invade Whiterun and depose it’s incredibly popular jarl to take it. The only imperial city you could argue wants to be part of a free Skyrim is falkreath, and that’s just because the old jarl who was deposed said it was because he was critical of the empire.
@@ryanrzjr Like I said, easy fix is compromise. Let Skyrim be at best a tributary state that is independent, and at worst, a fully independent and equal ally. Legally get around the loophole of the concordat.
The empire in elder scrolls V was R’tarded. So rigid. No ability to find the best solution.
@@elyastoohey6621 Skyrim basically already is a tributary state. The same as valenwood and elsweyr were. The empire lost 2 provinces simply because the aldmeri performed coups and the government joined them instead of the empire.
Other than that, it would still mean the end of the empire, as I explained. The nords wouldn’t have any reason to risk all of Skyrim for some suicidal recon quest of the imperial city like at red ring, and without cyrrodil, Tamriel falls.
On top of that, ulfric made it clear he wasn’t going to negotiate with the empire. In this very video he and galmar remark that the empire is dead. Ulfric hated the empire long before the rebellion, because as you learn in the thalmor dossier on him, he’s hated them for a long time, even while being in the imperial army.
What reason should Skyrim be independent though? Because 4/9 jarls want it? Because ulfric beat the high king in combat? The empire is much more stable and controlled when it can efficiently use its resources and men together with Skyrim as one state.
@@ryanrzjr no they aren’t tributaries, Skyrim is a complete vassal state/province.
Frankly the Empire was big stupid
The whole civil war is basically Romeo and Juliet without Romeo and Juliet. The Capulets and the Montagues were a lot alike deep down and could have easily gotten along if not for their petty feud. Both sides of the conflict think they're "right", but neither of them fully is and neither of them fully isn't. They both have their merits and they both have their shortcomings. Such is the sad truth of most conflict. Unfortunately in Skyrim there's no star crossed lovers to show the two sides that they have more in common than they are different. The Empire and the Stormcloaks are both patriotic to Skyrim and both hate the Thalmor. Unfortunately peace between them simply wasn't possible, there could be only one remaining in the end for neither would budge in their desire to wipe out the other.
Only ever completed the Stormcloak questline once. Frankly, Ulfric was a jerk to me and always seemed to be more of a politician then anyone else in Skyrim, using honeyed words of rebellion and glorious Norddom to fuel his own aspirations of power, with no regard for collateral damage or the bigger picture. He never cared about the suffering in his own city, like the Dark Elves and Argonians. He would gladly have given up any number of his people to 'win the war' if it meant he would be king. The Imperials are overbearing, but without them Tamriel doesn't stand a chance against the real enemies, the Thalmor.
Suffice to say, killing Ulfric at the end of the Imperial questline was far more satisfying.
At the very least, the current Emperor doesn't have the proper "stomach" for war, which is further cemented by the fact that the "Emperor" who led the Battle of the Red Ring was a body double.
@@DarkAdonisVyers You are shortsighted, brain dead and are using half truths to try to prove a false point.
The emperor was the only one out of his cabinet who chose to go to war with the Thalmor after they presented that sheet of demands. He chose war over dishonor.
The emperors camp was attacked and he was gravely injured, which is the reason why there was a body double leading the legions in the first place. It wasn’t because he “couldn’t stomach war.” Dont blatantly lie. That’s what we call propaganda 💀💀💀
This idea that “without the empire we’d have no chance against the Thalmor” is absurd. Yeah it would be a long shot but what’s the alternative? We’ve already lost the empire, the Thalmor are controlling them and acting through them. Empire controlled Skyrim having Thalmor agents march through, kidnapping Talos worshippers doesn’t exactly scream “Imperial sovereignty”. The empire is a corpse and Skyrim needs to shed that dead weight, even if you don’t like the idea of losing the empire. The empire is already lost.
@@nathanbean8763 The Empire is not lost, no the Thalmor are not controlling them. There were no Thalmor even in Skyrim until Ulfric Stormcloak started making a bunch of noise about Talos, whom 100% everyone was still worshipping. Terms of a treaty does not relinquish sovereignty. What the Stormcloaks are doing is called jumping the gun and making things worse.
Your idea that the Nords could fight the Thalmor without the Empire are what’s truly absurd. The Empire has the resources and manpower and strength, seeing as though when the playing field was leveled the legions obliterated the Thalmor in open combat even when outnumbered.
The Empire is not dead weight, and your arguments for that literally give the Thalmor what they want. I said it before and I’ll say It again; Stormcloak supporters are either Naive, Shortsighted, or unintelligent.
@@DarkAdonisVyers the reason for the body double was because the emperor was mauled by assassins the night before. You’re forgetting the emperor also dies in the plot line of Skyrim, and he embraces it.
There was a only one true empire: the Empire of Independent Skyrim.
And maybe an independent Skyrim-lead 2nd Ebonheart Pact (Windhelm Pact?).
Lead of course by the true emperor, the Player Character’s Last Dragonborn.
You stormcloak dogs! The empire is the only thing protecting Tamriel from the Thalmor.
God I hate that quote so much because it totally ignores the fact the Thalmor regularly drag Nord prisoners to the dungeons of northwatch and the embassy for inquisitorial reasons.
Add that the battle born (i.e. Thalmor collaborators) help vanish honest people into the hands of the Thalmor. But na the empire is totally protecting Tamriel from the Thalmor and not enabling their persecution of men.
@@thatoneinfidel5481 Couldn't agree more
Meanwhile how many times did Ulfric surrender ? 3 times ?
If Bethesda has to choose between either of the Civil War endings, i strongly feel this is the one they'll go for.
The end of the Empire has been spelt since the day Martin died, the Great War only made things clearer. Ulfric was one of those who believed in the Empire, who fought for it in the War. When the Empire betrayed him after Markarth, he turned bitter. The entire backstory of Skyrim leads to Ulfric's revenge. His win helps the Thalmor, yes, and that's the exact setting in which we'll find ourselves in the next Elder Scrolls. The Empire at its weakest, with only two remaining provinces (and truth be told, High Rock has always been prone to either its own independence or its petty kingdoms' independence, so it's fair to assume it won't take much for them to leave, also considering the Emperor is probably dead), whilst the Dominion is at its strongest ever. The Thalmor are as close as they'll ever be to an elven dominion over Tamriel once again. Whether their intent is indeed to remake Nirn through the undoing of all the towers (last one active is in Balfiera, which is one more hint towards the location of ES:VI) or simply to rule over all Tamriel, this is their best shot.
Seeing Rikke and Ulfric talk it out one last time shows how sad they both are at what it has come to. Neither of them wanted this but both had their hands tied by the Thalmor.
The next Elder Scrolls will be the culmination of all these storylines, of the end of the Septims, the downfall of the Empire, the rebellion in Skyrim, the rise of the Thalmor and the undoing of the towers.
I think it will be cannon for Stormcloaks to win, as a new empire will emerged, from Skyrim-Morrowind-Hammerfell.
We should've got the option to spare either tullius/ulfric
what will likely happen is
1. Imperial victory: the empire resurges after the sacrifice of Titus Mede, who becomes a martyr. The empire is reinvigorated and newly unified (Skyrim, high rock, cyrrodil, and maybe morrowwind.) hammerfell will likely join against the thalmor is a new Great War. The spark for the war will likely be in elsweyr, with khajit realizing the thalmor were the ones who took the moons away and tricked the khajit. Capitalizing on this, the empire goes to war, likely defeating the thalmor. The peace deal can’t really be predicted.
2. Skyrim gains it’s independence and the “empire.” As we know it is gone. High rock would likely join Skyrim or hammerfell, if not becoming completely independent. Cyrrodils claim of empire is gone, and with it, Tiber septims legacy is gone completely. Still likely the spark is in elsweyr, but possibly valenwood. The alliance of khajit, redguard, Bretons, imperials, and nords defeat the thalmor and drive them back to summerset isle. The dream of a new merethic era is stalled, but likely not completely gone with the thalmor. It’s possible a new faction of high elves conquer Alinor. Either way, there won’t be any conquests. Elsweyr and valenwood will be independent. Each region will likely see independence, bringing in a new era of indepdent racial kingdoms. With this, I could see the end of ES games in sight. No reason to bring back any empire if it all just lead to each regions independence. Likely we’ll see games for new regions, but nothing more.
This made me sad
Before you judge ulfric and the stormcloaks, you really need to understand ulfric and his time in markarth and what cruelties the empire has done. And how the stormcloaks will win against the thalmor with the Last Dragonborn
Funny you bring up Markarth yet neglect to point out that Ulfric collaborated with the Thalmor at that time.
Ulfric's the reason why the Justiciars were allowed in and why the Talos ban started getting enforced.
Always the people who havent read upon the lore that are the stormcloak apologists.
Galmar: "I knew I heard something"
Rikke is the only true Nord in Skyrim.
I like Ulfric Galmar at least give some chance to fellow Nord who’s on their enemy side to let out of fight not mocking her or something like negative
"where is your sens of a dramatic moment" is what i yelled at the game when i saw this janky shit... why not an actual cutscene
Lol Tullius just chillin on the bench there.
Long live the stormcloaks
Skyrim belongs to the NORDS!!!!
All Hail To Ulfric! You Are The High King!
Talos guide you
Justice!
Tullius is a genius. He's playing the long game to destroy the Thalmor
Meanwhile, he will continue to grovel at the Thalmor's feet, give them whatever they want, and follow their orders before he tries to "fight back".
@@BlackFang2 You ever played Dota 2 or League of Legends? What do you do when your team starts losing and you need to make a comeback? If your answer is "charge at the enemy team and die over and over again, feeding them more gold and experience to stomp you even harder", then you've just summed up the Stormcloak mentality. Tullius knows that the fight with the Thalmor can't be won right now, Tamriel needs time to recover its strength first. Ulfric's rebellion is throwing a spanner in the works of that plan. Ulfric is that toxic piece of shit who starts flaming the rest of the team in All-Chat when the match is going badly, gets everybody arguing with each other, makes bad call after bad call and drags everybody's morale down, making a comeback even harder than it already was.
@@Randoman590 You still don't get it. The Thalmor will benefit from either side's victory regardless. How can the Empire take time to gather strength, if they are constantly supplying the Thalmor and allowing them to govern their cities? (Not to meantion the Thalmor are ALWAYS keeping an eye on the Empire's actions). Do you honestly think the Thalmor would overlook such a detail if Tullius really was trying to gather his army's strength?
This isn't only about winning, what matters more is fighting for the RIGHT cause. Ulfric is a hero. He might not be the brightest King, but he's just trying to protect his people's homeland and religion. Let me ask you, what right do the Imperials and Thalmor have to govern the Nords? It's THEIR homeland.
Sure directly attacking the Thalmor might not look like the best idea. But the Stormcloaks are more than capable of returning a comeback, ESPECIALLY with the Dragonborn's help.
If Ulfric is such a horrible selfish man, how did he end up in Sovenguard in the first place? Hmmmm... Compare victory speeches between Ulfric's victory and Tullius' victory. And tell me which sounds more honorable and worthy.
I don't know about you, but never in hell would I ever allow anyone to invade my Homeland, freedom of speech, and religious believes. Death before dishonor, a term the Empire could never understand...
@@BlackFang2 No, the Thalmor don't benefit from either side's victory. The dossier on Ulfric in the Embassy says as much - they benefit from NEITHER side winning and the war continuing in perpetuity. That's why Elenwen was at Helgen at the beginning of the game - the Thalmor was trying to convince the Empire to hand Ulfric over to them so they could release him and let him carry on the war. Alduin interrupting the execution basically did their job for them.
It's been a while since I dug into the exact details here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think SUPPLYING the Thalmor with war materiel was part of the terms of the Concordat. They have to put up with them for now, yes, but they aren't actively helping them.
And there's clearly some sway both ways. Did you know that if you side with the Imperials in the war, you're supposed to be able to get Thorald Grey-Mane released from the Thalmor Keep peacefully by just asking Tullius to write a letter demanding it? You just walk up to the guard, show him the letter and he escorts you in. That option is removed from the base game only by a bug, which is fixed in the Unofficial Patch.
Yes, I do think it would be perfectly feasible for the Empire to do a good chunk of its military rebuilding unnoticed. They'll notice when the Empire start moving legions around to get ready for battle itself, but by that point it'll be a bit late. This has precedent in real life from Nazi Germany. Even if the Thalmor do notice immediately, the Empire will be war-ready again sooner than the Dominion if everything goes to plan.
And no, the Stormcloaks are not strong enough on their own to make a comeback. It's not just "especially" with the Dragonborn's help, it's "only" with the Dragonborn's help. If we just let the war and its aftermath play out 'naturally' without the player joining either side, Stormcloaks are doomed.
Yes, I will grant you that Ulfric is a far better orator than Tullius and he makes much better impassioned speeches. He truly believes himself to be right. But that doesn't MAKE him right. Tullius is dismissive of Nordic culture and doesn't really give much of a damn. But I don't have to hate a man to kill him (as Captain Alvis says of Roggvir), and I don't have to like a man to support his cause.
@@Randoman590 Sorry that's not true, Tullius is a soldier not a politician. He dosen't have no say other than wishful thinking. He hates the Thalmor as much as Ulfric, sadly the powerful and prestige of Cyrodill aristrocrats and Elder Council would rather persue peace, on the stipulation of coin. As the Thalmor has bought favor in powerful members in that circle. In the long run, the Dominion would win, if they don't act now. And no you're mistaken, Stormcloaks with Dragonborn can topple anything, when he unlocks Bend Will Shout, Dragon Aspect and Storm call, along with many other shouts, seeing the new Elder Scroll 6 taking place in High Rock Rock or Hammerfell, it's now possible to see Skyrim and Hammerfell will join forces. 1 Dragon was enough for Tiber Septim to take Hammerfell, now imagine 14 Dragons. In truth Stormcloaks victory would change the politcal landscape of all Tamerial, even adoptaing a radical pro-humanity in Cyrodiil, forcing powerful to change their stance.
This bit literally explains why you shouldn't go with the Stormcloaks in the civil war questline. This is exactly what the Thalmor wanted to happen, they even have a writing about Ulfric being an asset to their movement. If you side with someone only seen as an "asset" instead of a "threat" by the Thalmor, then you are doomed. With this, the Empire losts another province that might've been useful to help them win another Great War and the Empire and Cyrodiil is definitely at a disadvantage against the Aldmeri Dominion.
So to put it lightly, with Skyrim lost to the Empire. It would give them a disadvantage that would fall into Cyrodiil and the Empire being taken out in another war and with Cyrodiil on the Thalmor's hand, Skyrim would easily lose and Hammerfell is next.
Thalmor also said that a Stormcloack victory should be avoided
no, the Thalmor wanted that the civil war never ended. You imperials doesn't know to analyze.
Ulfric WAS an asset, he's no longer.
And what if the Empire lost that province? What if the Empire falls? Skyrim doesn't have to take the consecuenses and an indepent Skyrim can defend his land better than the shitty Empire. Hammerfell already did it and in worse conditions.
The Thalmor need decades to make an attack to Cyrodill, Skyrim or Hammerfell. Decades that the independent Nords are using during an Stormcloak outcome to movilize troops, regain soldiers and train them and reinforce Skyrim.
So to put it lightly, the Empire is the worst choice and it would fall one way or another. The sooner Skyrim get rid of them the better and in that way Skyrim would be self reliant and realistically preparing for a war.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb Bro why are you in here arguing skyrim politics like they actually carry any real world weight. You picked one out of two possible choices in a video game, stop acting like someone not making the same choice is somehow a bad thing.
"You Imperials" acting like the dude's actually from tamriel, jfc.
@@noonjo8985 what is the problem of arguing about politics of a video game with facts and lore base? What, because i can analyze and see things more clearly does mean that i cannot explain why the choice you made isn't the correct?
So basically, you are telling me that if you take a bad choice i cannot explain to you with objective facts that what you did is the worst or the incorrect choice?
Do you even know that in the videogames exist bad and good endings right? You know that they are called that because i don't know, perhaps people analyze and consecuently understood by the lore of that videogame which choice is the bad and which is the good?
I don't care if you don't like to argue or having discussions about videogames about the lore. The facts are the facts and if you don't like it then be an ignorant. But you cannot ban me my chance to express why someone is wrong or right and even less if i'm doing it supporting it with base and arguments with objective view, not because "you pick the choice that i don't, that's why you are wrong". I literally made an argument, not a stupid nonsense with baseless claims. I invite you to read and analyze what i posted to later discuss with facts, not saying stupid things like that.
Yes, imperials. If you choose the Stormcloaks you are a stormcloak supporter, if you choose imperials you are imperial supporter, i don't understand your argument. What the hell does that mean with implying that you are living in Tamriel. What a stupid point.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb You're right that you can argue about the outcomes of what happens if one side or the other wins the civil war.
I suppose what I'm trying to get at is that the tone I've seen you use in this comment and other replies to other comments for this video have been, at least from my perspective, provocative. Like they are wrong, and by extension, stupid for not agreeing with the decision you have made.
That is why I made the observation that you're treating the politics of a videogame like they carry weight in real life. Point is, they don't, the decision is ultimately arbitrary, and its consequences do not leave the boundaries of the game.
In my opinion, arguing whether it is worse if the stormcloaks or the imperials win the civil war is ultimately pointless, because it is pure headcanon as to what happens once the war is over. Until TES VI comes out and the writers decide an outcome for us, our inputs cannot be more than headcanon.
Tullius truly has the spirit of a Nord. He died with honor.
He haven't.
A nord Will never surrender in a fight for his life. Don't Say nonsenses
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb Yet Ulfric surrendered thrice, lmao.
@@dutchpatriot17 he only surrendered in darkwater crossing because he didn't want to his men to be killed. Oh right, later Tullius tries to execute all of them. Really compasive that guy. And when was the other one? Explain fanatic lier.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb that's only an assumption of ralof lol by that logic i can say that he surrendered because he has always been a coward. he also had surrednered during the first war and betrayed his allies but luckily for him that info was useless. at least tullius makes sense.
0:40-1:05 lol Tullius showing his Imperial junk 😂
"Some may call these junk. Me, I call them Treasures."
Ulfric's a little better than tullius because tullius gives up and crumbles while ulfic remains staunch and unmoving
Ulfric literally commanded a rebellion against the one barrier between the dominion and skyrim. Tulius was on his last knees and everything crumbled around him, so it wouldnt surprise me if he wasnt very happy with his failure to protect his nation
Ulfric would make an excellent war commander, but the problem is that he sees all who oppose as something to be crushed rather than see the negatives of his rising.
Its a bit more than being staunch and unmoving
@@weirdgamer9566 the empire bends to all thalmor orders to supposedly gather wnough power to strike back, it has been 30 years already and they did nothing, skyrim is more than able to defend against the thalmor alone especially considering its borders are with hammerfell (remember that the redguards has no problem fighting the thalmor alone). The thalmor arent invincible but the empire acts like they are, and with everyday and every new order the thalmor gain more power over the empire
@@razaaten387 I guess you put too much faith in a band of rebels. The empire is keeping the thalmor in check for 30 years as you mentioned. 30 years without massive bloodshed. That's a win for me.
If the stormcloaks wins the rebellion, they are not destroying the empire, they are merely expelling them from Skyrim. The empire still exists. Don't you think that now, with general tullius defeat, the empire won't send more troops to crush everyone? The talmor would simply watch the pit fighting, making small adjustments to keep the fight going and suddenly launch a massive attack.
In the short term, watching the story unfold as a mere warrior, the rebels surely is the best bet, but if you really aspire peace, the empire is the only way. do you really want to exchange 30 years of "peace" for a lifelong battlefield?
@@sunseeker1888 30 years of peace ? You mean 30 years of bowing down to the thalmor and and letting them have free reign over every law, i would gladly fight with the empire if it actually tried to fight the thalmor, but the rebillion started because the empire doesnt do anything, you may argue it cant do anything, but we know they can, they won back the imperial city from literal hundreds of thousands of thalmor, so its not like they cant win, and 30 years should have been enough for the empire to regroup with skyrim and launch another attack, but instead they put ulfruc un prison after he freed markarth, because the thalmor told them to, ulfric literally had no other choice, a band of rebels that will try something, is better than an empire that will die slowly doing nothing
@@razaaten387 you do know the reason the Aldmeri Dominion win (or nearly win) the great war is because they caught the empire off guard,right? And even then they're being screwed in Hammerfell and get into the trap at Cyrodiil in the battle of Red Ring. Though,the Emperor mistake is that he didn't push his advantages and gather all of his army to quickly strike the Dominion,that is for sure and not to say causing Hammerfell to become salty and split off from the Empire.
If the Empire got a new Emperor who dare to start the war against the Dominion,maybe Skyrim wouldn't rebel. But as I once see somewhere,the Empire have the numbers but not the supply to support a prolonged war against the Dominion...
Is general Tullius voice actor same as Bailey in mass effect? Just wondering
Good
Now i know why i'll NEVER pick Stormcloaks.
Also, i murdered Ulfric in Sovanguarde too, just for good measure.
In sovangarde he's cool tho
ulfric is very lucky that he is a nord because otherwise he wouldve ended up in mephala's realm
And yet the imperial sellouts seem better.
2:51 of cos, they had to tea bag Tullius first. Nord boys will be Nord boys.
I always side with the Stormcloaks because it lets me live out my Barbarian Vs. Roman fantasies. Ulfric is basically Vercingetorix and Tullius is Julius Caesar.
by tulius's logic, the better option would've been to just give Skyrim autonomy right away and not divert resources towards it in the first place. The dominion would not have had a justifiable reason to force them to try and retain land since the only outline of the treaty was banning talos worship within the empire. empire shuns skyrim it would still be following the treaty.
I agree with the Stormcloak questline. If Hammerfell can resist the Thalmor and win- why can't Skyrim?
You should read up on what made Hammerfell stand up. Everyone keeps citing this, but all Stormcloak sympathizers fail to realize that Hammerfell did not win. They got to a stand still. Their whole nation is basically all messed up when it comes to their resources and infrastructure.
Oh my god, Hammerfell won in a drawn out continental war do you really think they would have lifted a single curved sword if the Dominion's complete focus was on them? It'll take nothing short of the rest of Tamriel to face the Thalmor
Hammerfell resisted the Thalmor pretty much only because the Imperial Legion was still there. The Legion decimated the Thalmor at the battle of Skaven and was about to drive them out of the city entirely before they were recalled to Cyrodiil; the army that eventually took back Skaven and drove the Thalmor out of Hammerfell was mostly made up of Legion veterans who had remained after the larger part of the Legion returned to take back the Imperial City.
Conversely, an independent Skyrim is still divided between imperial loyalists and Stormcloaks, has none of the Legion's equipment, logistics, or skill, and would be fighting the whole of the Aldmeri army (whereas Hammerfell only had to deal with the smaller of two armies, the larger of which was focussed on Cyrodiil).
It would be cool to see an elder scrolls 6 where the Stormcloaks win and the aldmeri dominion finishes off the empire and a lot of people had to go underground or had ways of having nations safe from the Thalmor. Maybe the people did go underground into the Dwemer ruins and discovered new weapons and artifacts and the lost Dwemer people who could help fight and finish the aldmeri dominion. I could suggest steam powered guns but that maybe too much for an elder scrolls so maybe steam powered repeating crossbows and new types of explosives.
Haha! Rest in pieces, Rikke! Death to the empire!
imma soul tear Tullius this time & put his gem in Ulfric’s pocket 😂😂
A yes, top tier dialogue. A viking talking to an Ancient Roman and they both say the word "Guys"
In my opinion The empire truly died with the septim dynasty.
I don't understand why people don't get it Empire lost its Dragonborn spirit and all blessings. If the Empire is damn weak it's not because of Stormcloaks, They lost to Thalmor abandoned most of the provinces and Ulfirc did the right thing to get rid of that useless Empire bound.
Martin septim sacrificed himself as the last dragonblood emperor to defend the world from the forces of Oblivion. To claim their illegitimate because they lost the dragonblood is the exact opposite of the will of the last dragonblood emperor.
The Empire died with Martin Septim and I'll be damned if I serve under these pretenders who sully his name. The Hero of Kvatch and the Blades handed them the greatest victory they ever could have imagined at the close of the Oblivion crisis and these incompetent clowns still bungled it up and let the Thalmor take over. After playing through Oblivion and seeing the state of the Empire in Skyrim I'm completely appalled at how corrupt and pathetic they've become and will purge them from the land no matter what it takes.
@@silversnail1413 exactly.
Tulius disappoints me, he is by far one of the biggest reasosn I WOULD have to join the empire, he is smart and has that cool soldier vibe. But then he goes and sits in the corner like a btch. Not that I blame him tho, but still
If Hammerfell can hold off the Dominion without the Empire, Skyrim surely can as well.
No no, the only real reason that Hammerfell held them off was due to the dominion stretching itself too far. Just look at what happened to Cyrodill when they focused all their attention and resources to the Imperial City. Hammerfell just had extremely favorable conditions(which isn't a diss)