I love the meta commentary behind this quest. When Paarthurnax talks about the dragons inborn need for power and influence, he suggests the Dragonborn may also have this. It's an in-universe reason behind why you have to complete all these side quests, why you have to run every guild, why you have to own ever artifact. The player's need to 100% the game *is* the dragon blood. And the fact there's no alternative except to kill Paarthurnax plays into this further. To spare his life, you need to accept you'll never 100% the game. You need to, in a sense, overcome the very same urges Paarthurnax himself overcame. Brilliant, just brilliant.
Eh, what the mod "Paarthunax dilema" allows could also have been into this, overcoming the more violent impulse and choosing to talk people out of violence, and be peaceful to at least someone.
I have never killed Paarthurnax in all these years. He isn't a bad guy. The blades are a bunch of fanatics and are blinded by the history of their group.
There is a guy who had Paarthunax off limits for killing for the Blades, I think history remembers him with the name Talos or something. Esbern is just bad at his job.
Knowing that delphine and esburn going against the dragon born's wishes, glad I have the Heart ripper mod, with essentials checked, so I can finally put them in their place.
You're right about them being blind. Because they're unable to see one simple fact. If Paarthurnax had been planning to betray them it would've been too late by hundreds of years. He has had far FAR longer to plan and build a powerbase then the Dragon Guard turned the Blades have existed in the Elder Scrolls setting.
Like everyone else, every guild in the game does that, love the game but one poorly implemented thing is that you become the boss of most main factions in this and you still treated like a delievery man, they should give some options to send people to do jobs for you, and have them fight for you.
@@MrFantocan iirc there was some mod for Morrowind that made this possible. Since the time you became the guild leader you could give orders to your subordinates.
Dragonborn is solely in charge of recruiting, Dragonborn is solely in charge of deciding when to hunt dragons, Dragonborn gets to choose any bed and anything in the armory, it's all owned by them.
It'll be better if this is the real option, choose this and have a fight to the death with Delphine. And we'll see if she can backup all of her boasting.
@@TadchaiSodtongkamShe even dares to say « you are either with us or against us ». Akatosh ! How am I supposed to win against a hag and an old sack of bones ? Oh wait… FUS RO DAH !!!!
small quality of life thing to say, but if you play on v1.5.97 you can use "hide your quests" mod to take off paarthurnax quest without having to kill him,similairly for aniversary edition people theres a mod that does same thing "hide those futile quests"
What I find funny is Delphine does not count you as one their side unless you kill him. Y'know, despite all the things you have done for one another and defeating Alduin.
Which actually backs up Arngeir's accusation that the blades are lying about their intentions. (He claims that the Blades don't want to SERVE the dragonborn as they claim, but rather, that they want to USE the dragonborn, presumably as a weapon against dragonkind.
@@nathanbentley1939 Exactly. So much for there vow to serve. I wish you could have delphine step down in shame for such a traitorous way of thinking. Maybe a good beatdown by duel to put her in her place.
If you really think about it, it's all Delphine. The Blades no longer exist. She wants to bring them back. However, the oath of the Blade apparently does include swearing to serve the Dragonborn. She just wants to bring the Blades back so that she can recreate them in her image. Dragon and elf haters. She doesn't even realize that if she did try to bring the Blades back, and the Dragonborn straight up and left. Never to come back? Any future Blades she might be able to find would be swearing an oath to serve the Dragonborn. If that is the case (which it likely could) any initiates would know instantly that Delphine is a liar. Because the Dragonborn would never be seen by them unless by pure chance, they cross the Dragonborn's path. Delphine is literally destroying any possible 'future' the Blades could have by doing everything that she is doing.
I was honestly suprised to find out how many people felt like killing Paarthurnax was unavoidable. I immediately went to the Greybeards upon receiving the quest from the Blades to tell them what they asked, then told them I wouldn't murder him. Paarthurnax lives peacfully.
I’ve never killed paarthurnax myself either. He’s a dragon, so that makes him cool. I think of paarthurnax like endangered animals, I’d rather see them live then go extinct. Kind of funny that I felt that towards a character in a game, the feeling of wanting to preserve life. A study should be done on people who kill paarthurnax and don’t, see what type of people they are and what they do.
I always look for that option when I play a game where I'm made to choose one over the other. The blades are just a dying order of ignorant barbarians.
agree, indeed, u can end Skyrim, buuut, many people think, bealives, that the mission is buggy, for the single fact that u see the poop mission, and for some people this is annoying, but... like u said, at the end killing Alduin, u see Parthnux very peacefully, and most like true ending, than just took off the annoying poop mission from the book Quests.
For anyone wondering, you can do all the Blade stuff, recruiting, killing a dragon and bringing Esbern dragon materials for a potion before reading the elder scroll. Once done, read the scroll and just never talk to them again. I go back just to steal Esberns dragon atlas book and never look back at them, that way the quest doesn't even show up in my log. After the peace council i shout those 2 off the mountain and i'm done.
@@caiden6969 Yeah you can both keep Partysnax alive and get all the blade rewards... oh and not have the quest in your journal ever. All without console commands or mods
" Is it better to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort ? " I always found this to be the best line of dialogue in the entire game
It is literally better to be born good. Don't forget he murdered THOUSANDS of innocent people. And before you say "that was a long time ago" remember he is IMMORTAL.. a thousand years might as well be a weekend to him. Not to mention he's a ticking timebomb of betrayal. It's better to kill him, just to be safe. Hell, HE even agrees with you.
@@ZelphTheWebmancer the answer is be born good. It is literally better to be born good. Because "overcoming an evil nature" implies that you have done evil shit. What's better? To have never done evil? Or to do evil?
I was pissed I could force the blades into forgetting about Paarthurnax so I got a mod to basically shout in Delphine face using Unrelenting Force in the actual conversation mechanic, after which she staggered back and fell to her knee then got up, winched in pain and said something like "ok ok you win" then the game proceeded like normal it was like the blades actual forgot Paarthurnax existed perfect mod
"The Paarthurnax Dilemma" is a mod that fixes this issue. It adds dialog that allows the Dragonborn to remind the Blades that they are sworn to obey and protect the Dragonborn. You even let out a bit of Thu'um (causing the screen to shake) when reading Delphine the riot act over how out of control she's being by threatening to betray her oath if we don't go kill whoever she wants us to kill.
I deliberately installed that mod so that, (whenever I decide to continue with the main story line, I just took off the side of the mountain to explore) I can remind them that I'm their commander, not the other way around.
Something I would like to see in the sixth entry of TES, is an order founded by Paarthunaax, one thay cemented the reputation of dragons as wise, inspirational creatures of finding the inner good from a life born to evil. As an organisation the player can become acquainted with, coming with their own side quests and exclusive rewards. This could either be an expansion of the Greybeards or an entirely new order that acts as a sibling group to the Greybeards.
@@MoonlitMike I'm thinking either Atmora or Akavir. I have a theory that the Emperor you assassinate is actually another double. The real Emperor has been contacted by a descendant of Uriel Septim V. Uriel Septim V didn't "invade" akavir with a military dampaign or get defeated. Instead his army moved in under the guise of being slaves ships with more slaves for the Tseasci. The military went underground recruiting and training other slaves and locals. Because there's constant conspiring, subversion, usurpation and assassination in the heart of Tamriel/Cyrodillic Empire that is almost always agents of the Tseasci or the Thalmor. So for Humanity to be safe, free and independent, the Tseasci must be destroyed at the heart of it. However, it's going to take a coordinated effort and with the Stormcloak rebellion, a rightful Septim Emperor stepping in would help unite the races of man once again. That or the Dragon Born in TESV IS a septim bloodline heir, hence the Dragon blood. My guess is TESVI will likely be Atmora or Akavir, I'm thinking it'll be Akavir though. Plus they've been all over tamriel but Akavir would open up a whole new world and new Races. Sure there's humans on Akavir, but they're the minorities. Also the Blades, the Akaviri Warriors/Assassins, the Dragonguard (basically a sect of the Akaviri Warriors that became the Blades), the Morag Tong AND the Dark Brotherhood all have roots that stretch out to Tamriel from Akavir. If I remember correctly. When people think of Morag Tong they think Morrowind and Vaardenfell, when people think of Dark Brotherhood they think Blackmarsh and when people think of Dragon Guard or Blades they think Atmora. But, if I'm not mistaken, all these groups trace back to Akavir.
@Wingardium Elviossa There will probably be no dragons and almost guarantee you wont be Dragonborn in TES 6. Maybe DB will be mentioned in lore or someone might claim their DB but the PC wont be.
@Wingardium Elviossa I believe that the Dragonborn became trapped in Apocrypha because Hermeus Mora tempted him with knowledge and he failed and succumbed to his need to rule… dark ending
I wish that sparing Parturnax would do something about some of the random dragon attacks once you beat the main quest. They can get so annoying when your in the middle of a town or city and the dragons just start killing all quest essential npcs.
For some reason with my first character back in the day, after I finished the main quest dragons became wayyy rarer. They stopped spawning at the word walls that were on mountains etc. It didn't happen for my newer (and modded) characters though...
Parthurnax earned his redemption eons ago. If it weren't for him there would be only dragons. The fact that after eons he still fights his inner self just shows his level of determination, as well as prove that one can become good throught great effort. I would rather have a peaceful dragon than two stubborn dragon boomers.
This sums up my thoughts pretty well, along with the other statements that Delphine and Esbern are traitors to the Blades because their oath states that they swear fealty to the Dragonborn, yet they refuse to help until you kill Paarthurnax. That being said, there is a single argument I've seen for killing him that I want to debunk, in that if you don't kill him and he does eventually lose that fight against his inner self after you've died of old age or whatever, he'd more or less become the new Alduin, and cause all sorts of trouble across Tamriel. The issue I have with that theory is that you don't need a Dragonborn to kill Paarthurnax. Any shmuck with a weapon can kill a dragon, it was only Alduin that needed a Dragonborn to kill him, because only they could learn Dragonrend and have their Voice match the strength of a dragons. We even see an example of non-dragonborns killing dragons, during the flashback using the Elder Scroll, you see two ancient nordic heros - both of whom aren't dragonborn - kill a dragon, with one of them mentioning having killed *four* dragons that day. They didn't even use a shout to aid in killing them, just standerd weapons. So even if Paarthurnax *did* return to his nature, you'd have the Greybeards right there to stop him, along with any other skilled warriors that are still alive and around. In fact, the Greybeards may serve two roles with regards to Paarthurnax if you follow this line of reasoning; Paarthurnax helps teach them the Thu'um, and in return, they help Paarthurnax combat his nature - and if he fails that fight, are there to stop him before he gets too far out of control.
@@ShadeDergon97 Exactly. And lets be real here. If Paarthurnax hadn't such a strong determination, he would have gone berserk long ago. He's gone through so much effort to redeem himself that I doubt he would ever fall to his dragon urges. And even if he did, he would provably just go relieve some stress against some trolls and regain his senses (not even dragons are made of stone... maybe gargoyles). The blades are completly blind and hypocritical. They either listen to the dragonborn or they extinguish their order because of their stuck up attitude. With the dragonborn backing them up, they could get more volunteers and be safe from the Thalmor, but nooo... killing the dragon that helped humans is so much better.
@@ReverieNightengale Welcome to the club. I wish there was an official way to slap Esbern and Delphine to see reason and shut up about killing Parthurnax. The blades should defend Skyrim from attacking dragons, not dragons that would try not to cause distruction.
That's another good point; at the end of the day, without the Dragonborn acting as the face of the Blades (or their mascot, or whatever), they're not gonna get many, if *any* new recruits; either because the new recruits either realize how hypocritical the current members are, or they'd fear being attacked by the Thamor or whatever, or they'd just ignore the Blades since they hold no power - not even as dragonslayers. Meanwhile, if they did listen the Dragonborn, they'd have a powerful (both physically and metaphorically) icon to get others to join.
Not killing Parthanax puts the player in the same position as Parthanax. That nature to destroy is always there. We as players kill and destroy as a part of the basic game loop. When Parthanax says his line about overcoming evil nature every day, it also relates to the player (the most powerful thing in Skyrim). If you don't kill him, you have to face the quest to do so every time you play, and must overcome your own nature to destroy
I don't know how, but since I talked with Paarthurnax about the Blade want me to kill him and lead to his famous quote about overcome evil nature, the quest disappeared. It is not the case the quest is failed, if it is it will remain in the finished quest, just failed, but here the quest is no more, like it's not even exist in the first place
One good deed doesn't redeem someone. But one bad one is enough to damn them for eternity. -Me. Paarthurnax isn't a perfect being. But, he saved the world as we know it. To me, he's earned one more chance
I’ve killed Paarthunax once since I started playing the game, just to see what happened after the fact and how everyone reacted…I felt so bad that I reloaded my last save an hour before just so he’d be alive again
I killed him one time on my second playthrough. I was doing the opposite of my first, and when I did, I deleted all save files so I wouldn't have it on file only in memory. He was bad in the beginning, but as explained, he overcame his evil to be as good as he can be. He's definitely one of my favorite characters in this wonderful game that I love so much.
I have played over 1000 hours of skyrim at this point. Playing different characters, races, backstories, modded, unmodded. Each playthrough being as unique as the last. The only thing in common among all my saves is I have NEVER killed paarthurnax once, even for curiosity lmao.
Blades: Kill the dragon before it returns to its roots. Dragonborn: I'm also a dragon, so why haven't you killed me? Blades: error, can not understand.
playing skyrim vr was so cathartic when it came after season unending, because i could actually look at delphine, reach out, and slap her in the face to cut her off before she could tell me to do anything, just so that i never even had the quest show up in my log.
The moment that the Blades acted as if they were the ones in control of the relationship with the person they're supposed to serve, I was out. "We won't have anything to do with you if you don't kill him" "Bitch don't tell me what to do. I can walk to Elewen tomorrow and go 'The blades are here, go get 'em.' You're just lucky I like you more than the Thalmor. Now shut up and follow your oath to serve me."
@@eriklakeland3857 nah, I agree delphine is shit but don’t bad mouth the old guy. At least he is more reasonable and temperate about the situation. Only if he was the one to answer to and not delphine 😭
@@somenitrogenconsumer8859 I agree I always found him to be reasonable and possibly able to forgive him if he actually met him. Plus he apologizes for Delphine and actually was interesting and knowledgeable. Still would kill Delphine if I could tho.
No matter the play through No matter the character From Arch Mage to Companion Nightingale to Listener From Vampire Lord to Dawnguard commander An Oblivion Walker to a Vigilant of Stendarr Paarthunax has always been there to aid I’m my journey. No matter the life, he’s been there to share his wisdom Paarthunax is a true friend Through all these years, I never kill Paarthunax Never have… and never will
I'm always an evil vampire. Can't help it, there's just no way to not be an evil vampire for me... But I still never kill Parthurnax. Never have, never will.
I always got the impression delphine was just a crazy believer in dragons all along and when alduin made his return and brought back dragons she was so hyped. She was desperate to find more dragon action anywhere she could and was like Oooh! Look paarthunax is a dragon, lets kill em.
Killing him is the correct choice he even states every day is a temptation to go back to his old ways and the Dragonborn is literally the only one that can permanently end him as a future threat if he truly loved humanity he’d ask you to end him himself
Incorrect choice, he is the reason the humans in TES and many other species are free, as if he had not lead the dragon rebelling with the humans, the world of Nirn would still be under dragon tyranny. He is a good dragon.@@logandelaharpe6362
@@logandelaharpe6362he controlled himself for centuries, he controlled himself when alduin came back and the dragonborn was still weak, he allowed you to beat alduin and guided you through entirely, i dont think that after all that he will break to any temptation
@logandelaharpe6362 false. The only reason dragons could never die was because of Alduin. No Alduin no way to revive dead dragons meaning regular warriors can kill them and they cant be revived. Parthurnaax knows this and also doesn't want Dragons to waste their life and wants them to find purpose beyond they're nature. He doesn't want Dragons to waste their lives fighting meaningless battles of conquest and domination. He's truly changed and wants to help other dragons change as well.
My argument for NOT killing Paarthurnax (and I wish I could code so I could make a mod for this) is that, on my very first playthrough, I actually READ all those plaques littered along the path to High Hrothgar. I won't cut and paste the writings but the gist of it is that Kynne saw both how men suffered and that Paarthurnax wanted to help them and so she approached him and asked him to teach humans how to use the thuum. As far as I'm concerned, a divinity asking someone to get involved speaks volumes to their character.
There is indeed a mod for sparing parthurnax, I cannot recall its name but in the mod you go to delphine and essentially scare the shit out of her using a mixture of English and dragon speech to end the quest without killing anyone
Stop wishing and learn this skill it is ez as everything is ez once u learn the basix. Where to start? Seek and ye shall find and this is true for anything u seek I simply hope your ambitions are pure and not used for wicked intentions my friend.
@@hughmann9568🙄 I have, I suggest you do the same. I've taken the liberty of C&P from the UESP site so you can brush up on your lore - Emblem IV should prove to be of particular interest. Emblem I - Before the birth of men, Dragons ruled all mundus. Their word was the Voice, and they spoke only for True Needs. For the Voice could blot out the sky and flood the land. Emblem II - Men were born and spread over the face of Mundus. The Dragons presided over the crawling masses. Men were weak then, and had no Voice. Emblem III - The fledgling spirits of me were strong in Old Times. Unafraid to war with Dragons and their Voices. But the Dragons only shouted them down and broke their hearts. Emblem IV - Kyne called on Paarthurnax, who pitied Man Together they taught Men to use the Voice Then Dragon War raged, Dragon against Tongue Emblem V - Man prevailed, shouting Alduin out of the world Proving for all that their Voice too was strong Although their sacrifices were many-fold Emblem VI - With roaring Tongues, the Sky-Children conquer Founding the First Empire with Sword and Voice Whilst the Dragons withdrew from this World Emblem VII - The Tongues at Red Mountain went away humbled Jurgen Windcaller began His Seven Year Meditation To understand how Strong Voices could fail Emblem VIII - Jurgen Windcaller chose silence and returned The 17 disputants could not shout Him down Jurgen the Calm built His home on the Throat of the World Emblem IX - For years all silent, the Greybeards spoke one name Tiber Septim, stripling then, was summoned to Hrothgar They blessed and named him Dohvakiin Emblem X - The Voice is worship Follow the Inner path Speak only in True Need
I’ve never killed Paarthurnax and never will. Without his love for humanity, there would have been no chance at all. Long live Paarthurnax! Long live our dragon brethren!
Parthurnaax - actually did his best to change and become good. Blades - "If you don't do what we say, we won't be your friends anymore!" Yeah, the choice of letting him live was easy for me...
@@bennypatrick6535Lol my Dragonborn and Delphine were always prickly with each other. "You better start explaining. Fast." "i dOnT owE yOu nOtHIng i cOUlD hAve kiLlED yoU wHeN yOu wAlKEd iN!1" Ah, the start of a beautiful 'friendship'... Esborn is awesome though. His only fault is agreeing with Delphine on killing Partysnax.
@@BlueGhostofSeaside bro delphine will tell the FULL EBONY ARMOR DRAGONBORN WITH A DAEDRIC SWORD TAHT DEALS 117 DAMAGE + 15 FIRE DAMAGE. that she couldve killed me when i walked in
@@BlueGhostofSeaside same. I never liked Delphine. Even after you tell her, "yes I'm dragonborn, I absorbed a soul and now can shout" she's just "yeah still don't believe you let's go kill another so you can prove it" like b**ch you're a total stranger, why should I have to prove anything to you?
If you wait long enough after he talks to you and flys off. The dragon that flew you to the temple to take the portal to fight Alduin, will arrive and have dialogue with you as well. He basically tells you that you can summon him whenever and that he respects your thuum. BUT also says that majority of the dragons will not follow Paarthurnax and will denounce his teachings regardless. I thought it was kinda interesting. On one of my play throughs, I used that as my “reason” to kill him, because I wanted to explore the blades quest line (which is so unrewarding and not worth killing Paarthurnax.)
Yeah, and also I have always found his first sentence in that speech: "Paarthurnax's Voice Tiranny is not that different from Alduin at the end" (dunno the original english since I play in my language) very funny
@@schteusciarrotta6433 Yep, for Ohdaviing Paarthurnax is a tyrant like Alduin, just one wanted power and the other peace, and in Ohdaviing's mind it is both opressing, as being a DRAGON peace and compassion must be extremelly hard, and need a lot of self control.
Now that I am 20 years old, that quote hits different, “ is it better to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort” my god this game was actual art
Just keep in mind that something doesn't have to be "objectively evil to any and all observers including itself" in order to be incompatible with sometjing else. Smallpox wasn't out to eat children while twirling it's mustache maniacally. It's not comming for us because we were anathema to it. It was simply following it's nature. An asteroid comming towards earth wouldn't be acting with evil intentions. Or any intention at all. Some things are just "mutually exclusive". If a virus' nature is to infect, even if that'll kill, we get it first. If the laws of physics are guiding that meteor here, we get it first. If a dragon's nature is to oppress, even if that'd kill, we get it first. Not because _we_ are the ones that set out to be the vilains of the story but because oppression and death are incompatible with free, living people The lack of one objective, universal truth, or the presence of several subjective viewpoints doesn't mean they're all mutually inclusive, or even compatible
@@Luckmann You have some high standards for what's good. I mean, I'm not going to call Skyrim art (outside of the technical sense), but it is a good game. There's some actual crappy games out there that don't care at all. Most games fall into the 'good' category these days, or worse. Games better than skyrim are nice, but they are rare gems that should not be held as a standard.
I love that if you receive the quest to kill him and completely ignore it until you kill alduin it doesn't show up in your quests anymore. Parthranax is one of my favorite characters of all time. Never in ten long years of playing skyrim have I lifted sword or sorcery against him.
I think parturnax is actually the good guy and the blades are the evil ones. Ive never killed him. And when I got bend will shout I don’t kill any dragons just as a curtesy and fellow dove.
@@Little-She-Devil the blades are definitely not evil. Delphine is a bit unpleasant but the blades are good. The player characters of Morrowind and Oblivion become members of the order.
@@slinkyslink5161 well maybe they are not truly evil. But they aren’t very morally good in Skyrim. They literally say: you are either with us or against us.
@@Little-She-Devil wanting to kill paarthurnax isn't evil. It's something you could reasonably argue against doing but there is reason behind their stance towards him.
I achieved this ending on my first *completed* play through without knowing. I knew I was not going to kill the dragon, and I was content with just letting the quest stay unfinished indefinitely. It wasn’t until days later I discovered the extra dialogue option. I’m glad the game has that ending, and the only way to discover it naturally is by surviving that test (unless sheer dumb luck made u discover it unintentionally). I just wish Lydia had survived long enough to see it that play through.
Killing him is the correct choice he even states every day is a temptation to go back to his old ways and the Dragonborn is literally the only one that can permanently end him as a future threat if he truly loved humanity he’d ask you to end him himself
This is why I downloaded the mod to bypass killing him by tell the Blades to get in line and obey their oath or you'd shout them to Oblivion. Then I still ignored them for the rest of the game and just left them to rot in the cave as I am to sickened by them. Only other mod I have ever used is the alternate start, at least i got use out of it. =)
That's one thing that always bugged me in Vanilla Skyrim. It's not just the Blades. You aren't really the LEADER of any of the factions, you're just their number one hatchet man. You don't get to order minions around or change policies. Delphine telling me the Blades were basically created to serve the Dragonborn and then basically treating me like her number one gopher always ticked me off.
I love the mod where it lets you do something similar to the greybeards and use your shout on the Blades telling them that they will follow your lead and follow YOUR orders, not demand shit like Parturnax's death
I quite the game many years ago because I refused to kill Parthanax but also refused to play on without all the cool stuff the blades give you... This mod is perfect!!
I would love to tell them "The Blades were founded to protect and listen to the Dragon Born, not order them around, so either listen to what I say or admit you aren't Blades"
In all my playthroughs even the most evil of one's that destroyed cities for fun, I could never kill big P. He never did me wrong, not once, and helped to end the reign of big A.
Right. After my first heroic playthru years back, every subsequent playthru I have been legit evil. I make all the horrible choices. I kill Braith's parents just so she's sent to honorhall orphanage... she is more annoying than Nazeeem. I murder Aerin because he's a cringe loser, and I laugh when Mjoll discovers his body. I marry the psycho girl from the first Dark Brothehood quest... and I make her a vampire. I choose the Stormcloaks because I can't stand Ulfric Stormcloak and his victory, with his idiot Jarls, only ensures the Thalmor will conquer Skyrim. ...but I NEVER kill Paarthanax. I'm not scum.
I've killed Paarthurnax so many times and felt bad about it on every one. Thanks for the vid man. I know what this current playthrough needs me to do to make it right!
I've played through this game at least 4 times. I didn't even realize there were other ending besides the one with Paarthurnax. He's the entire reason you are able to defeat alduin in the first place.
I didn't even realise there was an option to kill him. I got to the end of the game after the "good" ending and went online. "did you kill Paarthernax?!!" im like wait.. wtf!
The way Christopher Plummer delivers the line "Begone! Before even MY philosophy is tested beyond the breaking point. We are men of peace, and you are not." Gives me fucking chills every time. The Greybeards are so fucking cool.
There is a mod that seems to bring back cute out voice lines that makes it to where you can force the blades to not kill him and basically forces the quest along so you can rebuild the blades and keep parthanax alive its one of the best mods because I'm not going to ever kill him rather wipe out the blades
They need to, after saying that you won't kill him to Arngeir, give you the option to kinda scare the blades, as a simple reminder that The Greybeards, even though they're not as powerful as the DragonBorn, can still kill anyone with just a whisper, and make the mountain shake, and rattle all around them
Oh no, the Graybeard's voice is far stronger than the level the Dragonborn ever reaches in the game. They know and practice the voice, meditate over it.
@@randyrandom3358 Arengir is the only Graybeard that is still able to speak while keeping his voice low. Even while whispering "dovakhiin" the other Graybeards shake up their environment. They also can shout so loud and yet so clear that we hear them calling us up to the mountain while we are at Whiterun.
I never seemed to notice this before, but if you look at Parthurnax's and Alduin's wing shapes, Parthurnax's are shaped like angel wings and Alduin's like demon wings
Paarthurnax is a trope I love in fiction. Someone who's done evil due to the society they are from, but through 1 reason or another has to be accepted as an ally, often because an almost extinction level threat is at hand and allying together it the only chance to survive. my favorites being the Arbiter from Halo, and Mithraax from Destiny, both were from an alien race that began a war with Humanity, a war of extermination where pretty much everyone of that faction wanted Humanity dead, but through their experiences saw that allying with Humanity was the only way both groups would survive what is coming. They did horrible things you could never forgive them for, but I'd say they are atoning for in some way by becoming wiser and changing, each build a new faction for their people ad allies to Humans, and go on to face any new threats together. Paarthurnax was evil because that was normal for Dovah, but he eventually saw Alduin's evil and allied to Humanity, since banishing Alduin through time he became the leader of the Greybeards and through them taught many Humans the Thuum, then when Alduin returns in ES5 Skyrim he allies with and teaches the Dragonborn. If he was still evil he's had thousands of years to attempt to conquer the world. He could have made the Greybeards his own Dragon Cult. He could have made these guys powerful warriors to conquer the world for him, but he didn't. He built up the Greybeards as a group for peace and non violence unless necessary.
I didn’t want to kill Paarthurax, but as I began using my bound bow, he wouldn’t die. His HP would refill and he wouldn’t move so I said whatever and fast travelled to whiterun. Once I get there I get a message that he died and Miraak stole a soul. So now my game is bugged and about 25% of the time when I fast travel Paarthurax’s skeleton shows up on top of me to remind me of my actions
First time the blades told me to do this I was doing an Assassin run... Never give someone with the ability to instantly kill you an ultimatum. *ESPECIALLY* in a hidden cave no one knows about and only said Assassin can access.
@@onepunchsaitama5081 well she was at one point, after telling me to kill Paarthurnax I found this little console command that just so happens to remove essential NPC's invincibility. Unrelated: Delphine and Esburn suddenly had acute heart failure and passed away shortly after...
It’s really weird how you never get a chance to sort out the Blades one way or the other. It’s like the game just assumes they sit there with empty threats at their designated commander and then nothing happens between them again.
Paarthurnax has always been one of my favorite characters, and remember the sense of sadness I felt the first time I heard him bid me farewell. I thought that was it, he was out of he game, and I would never see him again. What a relief it was to see him respawn the first time I returned. True, he didn't have much dialogue after that, but it was nice to know that I could return to the Throat of the World, and "visit him" whenever I wanted. I never killed him, and I never will. Oblivion take Dalphene and the rest of the Blades!
Father Akatosh. My mentor. I became the 10th divine because of him. Paarthurnax used the way of the voice not to enslave,, but to teach and guide. Were it not for him? I wouldn't have defeated Alduin. To hell with the blades, I don't need them anyway
My reasoning was "if Parthunaax ever steps out of line, I will deal with him then. But until that day arrives if you want to kill Parthunaax Delphine, you will have to go through me. I am the Dragonborn, I answer to no one!"
But do you recruit someone else to keep an eye on him after you die or is the immortal-being-to-thom-time-is-meaningless off the hook if he can wait around a few decades? And _are_ you going to follow him around? Or just hoping that middle ages CNN will be around to report in real time on what's he doing anywhere in the globe, even on different continents people in Tamriel literally know nothing about? I do get the last part though. You'd think _the_ dragonslayers would fall in line behind *the* dragonslayer when he's finally facing off against THE dragon specially after being uncerimoniously fired by the non dragonslayers that turned them into glorified bodyguardd, but no. "fIrSt YoU nEeD tO pRoVe YoU'rE wItH uS"
You get this dialogue with Parthanax whether you talk to Arngeir or not. Telling Arngeir you're not going to kill him is just an extra piece of dialogue. I definitely wish they would have did a little more with this just like every other quest in the game.
I have never killed Paarthurnax, and I actually discovered the dialog with Arngeir by accident. Paarthurnax is definitely my favorite character in the entire game 😊
Really says a lot how few people actually go through with parthurnaxs murder. He was a wise old lizard, worthy of at least Some respect, despite his past. Especially when you consider that no matter what you do or how long you play you can never 100% this game if you don't complete that objective.
I happen to have not killed parthanax but not due to morals or storyline. When I happened to be talking with him a weird glitch occurred where his body contorted and he slowly and surely disappeared in the clouds. I think he went to the moon.
A similar thing happened to me, but he just flew straight upward, spinning on his axis while ascending into the reaches of space. Or, as Space Core put it, SPAAAAAAAAACE!
I actually accidentally got this path during my first play through All because of my habit of talking to every npc i encounter amd skipping dialogue Until my cousin asked me if i enjoyed the parthanax battle And it confused me because i never fought him I thought i made a mistake until i played it the second time this time reading the dialogues and glad that i didnt kill him
Can I ask why you play like that? Is that fun? Never even knowing what you're doing, literally just mashing buttons is your gameplay basically. I'm not judging, I'm just asking because I have a few friends that do the same thing, and it seems very very unfun to me
@@tortellinifettuccine some people love to smash dialogue button because killing enemies in main mission sometimes more fun and enjoyable than side mission. While people who want exclusive reward is more enjoyable in side mission.
@@tortellinifettuccine I spam the button on everything and quicksave before talking to them incase I did something bad, I also did things like what if I kill them, like the dark brotherhood mission where you have to kill 1 of 3 guys and I attacked the lady on the shelf and got a ending I never got before.
@@tortellinifettuccine because I'm afraid that if i don't ill miss something, but still find it kinda boring to do so rush through it and end up missing stuff that way
Delphin was the first character in skyrim to ever get added to my "GO FUCK YOURSELF" list. The second is lord Harkon, after learning what he did to his family members and the dark lore behind it.
Delphine is much worse in my opinion. They lost their way, boss you around ,and demand agregious things. So in all my playthroughs by far they got the "setessential 00013478 0 setessential 00013358 0" treatment.
there's a mod called the Parturnax dilemma that I use basically let's me tell Delphine as Dragonborn I am in charge, an effect I like with it is when she argues it makes out you use your power (shaking camera ad sound effect) to intimidate her back into her place as your subordinate after that everything goes back to normal like she never brought it up in the first place.
Basically a mandatory mod for me. I don't mind moral dilemmas, just so long as they aren't forced on you by your insubordinate minions (yes, Delphine, that's what you are, a _minion_ ).
Unfortunately, that mod is unvoiced, as far as I know, so you will need to have subs on (if you don't normally) to get through the dialog. There's another, Paarthurnax - Quest Expansion, that does a similar thing but gives Delphine and Esbern voices in response (using modified and edited voice clips, but for the most part the dialog feels fairly natural for what it is.)
I never killed Parthurnax but in this last line, you can sense his natural thirst for domination when he's speaking of dominate dragons under his will. He is not evil, no one is truly evil in the TES universe. But he still a dragon. Funny enough, when I finished the game and saw that I were the leader of every guilds of the whole province, I realised that the dragonborn being technically a dragon, he is wired for domination too.
@@scorp8576 I think too, but let's not forget that Parthuurnax haven't erased his pulsions, he still is fighting against it. Someday he could lower his defenses for some reasons and be back to his old self.
not really. Dominating is one thing. to lead is another. never confuse the two. The dragonborn was always destined to be a leader, not only in skyrim, but to all races. He is even the rightful heir to the Imperial throne. Even the current emperor knew that very well.
@@praxiann7615 no it's different. Dragons are naturally wired to dominate. For a dragon to repress his nature it would more be like a carnivorous animal that refuse to eat meat even if his instinct told him that he must
I just want to say, I got this game when I was eleven. I played through the main campaign in a week, and I really wanted to complete every quest and learn everything. But when they told me to kill Parturnax, eleven year old me thought "what is wrong with these people?! Maybe I should fight them instead!" I have never killed parturnax in all of my play throughs. I love him as a character, and even if there will always be a quest I've never finished in Skyrim, I can die happy knowing that I didn't kill him.
Thank you SpencerRose!! This is exactly what I was takiing about guys... If an ELEVEN YEAR OLD is saying "killing Paarthurnax is a bad idea", then it's probably a bad idea!
@@v-force1379 right after alduins wall, bring the 3 for the blades, get the 2 upgrades from esbern, get all the dragon and blade weapons from the inn and karthspire temple, etc. Do a few quests with your 3 blades, then never return. After the peace meeting between ulfric and tulips, Delphine should approach you, say kill party snacks, blah blah blah. Just ignore her, etc,etc. Finish the main quest on your own time, but when you do, you'll get the best ending, the quest goes away, and you never approach the blades again.
I always had the same view that the blades betrayed there duty to the dragon born by outright not talking to you until you kill parthanax, I always thought it would have been cool if the blades and the grey beards joined together and make a new organisation with dragons as allies
"You need to kill Paarthurnax." "No. He has sought redemption for many an age and seeks further enlightenment. He has the blessing of Kynareth. He will live." "Then we have nothing more to discuss. You're either with us or against us." "Then you'd best leave this temple, oathbreaker. You are unworthy to wear this armor or stand before me. Leave this place and return to your inn, or I will make you wish you had died with your brethren!"
It’s a shame they never included some way to come to a compromise between the two factions, even if it would have been long and overly complicated to achieve
I actually got this ending my first play through of Skyrim, and I had no idea that this was an alternate ending. I’ve beaten the full game of skyrim maybe twice and now I know. Thank you for the video may Partysnacks live on forever
This was the ending I got when I first beat the game. I immediately went to speak to the Greybeards about it because it made no logical sense for me to kill someone who had reformed themselves and even helped the people fight against Alduin the first time around. Settling a score from a time period no one even remembers anymore was not a sound enough reason for me.
The thing about Dragons in Elder Scrolls is that they were created by the Gods that created the world with the sole purpose of destroying the world NOT for the sake of evil but because of the cycle of life (so that the Gods to create the world anew). The world was created and then destroyed and then recreated again and then destroyed again. So wanting them dead while it's not wrong it's actually very stupid. They're not evil they were just doing their job the Gods gave to them... well at least until Alduin stop destroying and decided to started a cult.
@@V1489Cygni huge difference, it's more like a Nazi officer realizing what he did was wrong, causing him to go and free the jews from the concentration camps, eventually going into self-imposed exile for his crimes. Alduin is hitler.
@@V1489Cygni I get where you’re coming from, but the hitler comparison doesn’t really fit here. Paathurnax didn’t just “stop being bad”, he actively became one of if not the most essential force in fighting back the dragons and allowing for the races of Skyrim not to live in fear and oppression. If all Paathurnax had done was go somewhere remote and start helping a few locals then, yes, your comparison would be valid, and we would have much less reason for not wanting to kill him. But that just isn’t how it is
I totally found this completely on my own! It was so nice to be able to find this naturally in-game, and very rewarding since it was my intention to find some other way around killing him. That was the only ending to skyrim I managed to get, and I'm pretty happy with it.
You get that ending even if you don't talk to Greybeards or Blades after the ultimatum You get more depth into the lore but still it's just two endings, Parthy dead or Parthy alive.
After 11 years, numerous playthroughs, and 1000's of hours, never once have I killed Paarthurnax. Watching him die in this video was literally the first time I've ever seen it. I believe his words, and I believe it is possible to overcome evil within yourself if you try hard enough. And he's had centuries to try. Fuck the Blades if they can't see that.
Game: You are given a task. In order to regain the side of the Blades, the great heroes… you must kill Paarthurnax. Me: I mean… can’t we kill the Blades instead?
I literally just ignored the quest and got this ending anyways, so you can just finish the politics and then pretend delphine doesn't exist. That's what I've done on all 1 of my playthroughs, and what I'll continue to do on all future playthroughs.
@@ScottEdgmand The legends say there is an ancient thuum that can be shouted to the gods of bethesda realm. It goes like this: "setessential 00013478 0 setessential 00013358 0". After this shout, delphine and esbern loose their plot armor and become vulnerable.
dude... this is beautiful. i will literally start another new game just to get this ending. i've always felt so sad about killing paarthurnax, but i found, at last, a way to NOT kill him. thanks bud
Great Video after playing this game over 11yrs I didn't know about this ending!! I've not killed him plenty of times just never talked to the gray beards about it! 😮
Ok, so I am still learning the lore. Played skyrim to completion a while back, but just finished the first tutorial cave in oblivion for the first time. If the Blades are the Emperor's guards, and the dragons are allied with the Emperor, what changed? The Emperor and he line ended, but how did the Blades come to hate dragons and serve the dragonborn?
i remember there was a bug because of which Paarthurnax would die after you told him you won't kill him or if you ignored this quest for some time. that was really frustrating, because i never wanted him to die, i always liked him and visited him occasionally.
It is literally better to be born good, because "overcoming an evil nature" implies you did some evil shit. Like murdering thousands of innocents. Like paarthunax did.
I've never even considered killing Partysnaax. He's entirely the reason that you were able to defeat Alduin, and should always be able to carry on with his end goal of trying to get the remaining dragons in-line. Alternatively, on my last playthrough, I was actually using the SkyTweak mod, and just went ahead and slayed all of the blades by toggling the ability to kill critical NPCs HA!
Killing him is the correct choice he even states every day is a temptation to go back to his old ways and the Dragonborn is literally the only one that can permanently end him as a future threat if he truly loved humanity he’d ask you to end him himself
This^^^ Killing him is not correct, especially in the long term of the TES storyline Ill be very sad if when TES6 comes out there's no more dragons to be seen cause more people killed him than didn't.@@weavercs4014
And this is why I got the parthurnax quest expansion, it lets parthurnax live and you basically get to tell the baldes: stfu, the baldes serve the dragonborn, and I am the dragonborn, and I say let him live, if you got a problem with that then just go to oblivion!
That was the mod that made me want to mod this game. Such a pity that it was damn near impossible for me to do it. But now, years later, there's a few new mod managers I haven't tried. Time to try again.
Cool bonus too, if you talk to him after beating Alduin, I do believe he lets you “meditate” and get new abilities. One of my personal favourite is ‘force without effort’ or something but essentially lets your push shout become massively more powerful and you being extremely hard to stun or knock over with shouts and weapons.
Yeah…’massively more powerful’….no sorry! All it actually does is makes you prone to stagger 25% less and stagger your foes 25% more. In practice…it is barely noticable.
I've never killed Paarthurnax but he and and esbern were always my favorite npcs and i really liked the blades in morrorwind and oblivion it's really a shame how bad they are in skyrim
Personally, I’d love to hear the philosophical discussions Paarthurnax and Esbern would have if they just talked with each other. I feel like our Dragonborn could learn a lot just by listening in.
In my very first playthrough, I was shocked at being ordered to kill Paarthurnax. It was a completely horrendous curveball. It didn’t even bear consideration. So I happily resigned myself to having the unfinished quest in my journal forever. I had no idea this ending existed despite several playthrough! Excuse my while I go fire up Skyrim and do this immediately lol
I completely ignored the request to kill Paartysnax and I got the same dialogue choices, I don’t think it changes anything besides him being at the Throat of the World in the end
I love the meta commentary behind this quest. When Paarthurnax talks about the dragons inborn need for power and influence, he suggests the Dragonborn may also have this. It's an in-universe reason behind why you have to complete all these side quests, why you have to run every guild, why you have to own ever artifact. The player's need to 100% the game *is* the dragon blood. And the fact there's no alternative except to kill Paarthurnax plays into this further. To spare his life, you need to accept you'll never 100% the game. You need to, in a sense, overcome the very same urges Paarthurnax himself overcame.
Brilliant, just brilliant.
Neither
THAT IS GENIOUS
Eh, what the mod "Paarthunax dilema" allows could also have been into this, overcoming the more violent impulse and choosing to talk people out of violence, and be peaceful to at least someone.
@@AugustoEL If you wanna use CHIM to change reality and save Paarthurnax, be my guest.
@@CyberController- it is more to tell Delphine and Esbern "Shut the fuck up. I am the boss and I say that Paarthunax is an ally"
I've been playing this game for 10 years and yet still have not kill paarthurnax
Same, I have however shouted Delphine off a mountain soon as she asks me to kill Paarthurnax. Its the tradition now.
Same
You aren’t missing out on anything
I only did it once just to see what happens but the game auto saved and my last save was way back I couldn't go back😢
Same here, bud.
I have never killed Paarthurnax in all these years. He isn't a bad guy. The blades are a bunch of fanatics and are blinded by the history of their group.
Screw that, they were never blades. For one, Blades were under the command of the Dragonborn. They or rather she just bosses DB around.
There is a guy who had Paarthunax off limits for killing for the Blades, I think history remembers him with the name Talos or something. Esbern is just bad at his job.
Knowing that delphine and esburn going against the dragon born's wishes, glad I have the Heart ripper mod, with essentials checked, so I can finally put them in their place.
I cannot allow them to create a hidden blades army and secretively kill paarthunax
You're right about them being blind. Because they're unable to see one simple fact. If Paarthurnax had been planning to betray them it would've been too late by hundreds of years. He has had far FAR longer to plan and build a powerbase then the Dragon Guard turned the Blades have existed in the Elder Scrolls setting.
What’s funny is that the blades are supposed to be taking orders from the dragonborn but they make you do everything
They are preston garveys inspiration
Like everyone else, every guild in the game does that, love the game but one poorly implemented thing is that you become the boss of most main factions in this and you still treated like a delievery man, they should give some options to send people to do jobs for you, and have them fight for you.
@@MrFantocan iirc there was some mod for Morrowind that made this possible. Since the time you became the guild leader you could give orders to your subordinates.
@@MrFantocanbugthesda does a poor job with guild system, especially in fallout 4
Dragonborn is solely in charge of recruiting, Dragonborn is solely in charge of deciding when to hunt dragons, Dragonborn gets to choose any bed and anything in the armory, it's all owned by them.
Blade: We wont serve you till you destroy Parturnax!
Dragonborn: It’s... treason then.
It'll be better if this is the real option, choose this and have a fight to the death with Delphine. And we'll see if she can backup all of her boasting.
@@TadchaiSodtongkamShe even dares to say « you are either with us or against us ».
Akatosh ! How am I supposed to win against a hag and an old sack of bones ? Oh wait… FUS RO DAH !!!!
"I don't care for boasting"
small quality of life thing to say, but if you play on v1.5.97 you can use "hide your quests" mod to take off paarthurnax quest without having to kill him,similairly for aniversary edition people theres a mod that does same thing "hide those futile quests"
I’ve only ever killed him once and regret and guilt ate at me so much that I reloaded my save gladly losing an hour of gameplay
What I find funny is Delphine does not count you as one their side unless you kill him. Y'know, despite all the things you have done for one another and defeating Alduin.
Which actually backs up Arngeir's accusation that the blades are lying about their intentions. (He claims that the Blades don't want to SERVE the dragonborn as they claim, but rather, that they want to USE the dragonborn, presumably as a weapon against dragonkind.
@@nathanbentley1939 Exactly. So much for there vow to serve. I wish you could have delphine step down in shame for such a traitorous way of thinking. Maybe a good beatdown by duel to put her in her place.
Just goes to show how fanatical they are.
If you really think about it, it's all Delphine. The Blades no longer exist. She wants to bring them back. However, the oath of the Blade apparently does include swearing to serve the Dragonborn. She just wants to bring the Blades back so that she can recreate them in her image. Dragon and elf haters. She doesn't even realize that if she did try to bring the Blades back, and the Dragonborn straight up and left. Never to come back? Any future Blades she might be able to find would be swearing an oath to serve the Dragonborn. If that is the case (which it likely could) any initiates would know instantly that Delphine is a liar. Because the Dragonborn would never be seen by them unless by pure chance, they cross the Dragonborn's path. Delphine is literally destroying any possible 'future' the Blades could have by doing everything that she is doing.
@@lotusjewell9984 And Esbern is just letting it happen.
I was honestly suprised to find out how many people felt like killing Paarthurnax was unavoidable. I immediately went to the Greybeards upon receiving the quest from the Blades to tell them what they asked, then told them I wouldn't murder him. Paarthurnax lives peacfully.
I’ve never killed paarthurnax myself either. He’s a dragon, so that makes him cool. I think of paarthurnax like endangered animals, I’d rather see them live then go extinct. Kind of funny that I felt that towards a character in a game, the feeling of wanting to preserve life. A study should be done on people who kill paarthurnax and don’t, see what type of people they are and what they do.
I never went to the greybeards, just ignored the blades and went on my journey.
I always look for that option when I play a game where I'm made to choose one over the other. The blades are just a dying order of ignorant barbarians.
@@neowolf09 TES lore has a repeating sense of making us leave those we were with over and over, sometimes with a sense of regret.
agree, indeed, u can end Skyrim, buuut, many people think, bealives, that the mission is buggy, for the single fact that u see the poop mission, and for some people this is annoying, but...
like u said, at the end killing Alduin, u see Parthnux very peacefully, and most like true ending, than just took off the annoying poop mission from the book Quests.
For anyone wondering, you can do all the Blade stuff, recruiting, killing a dragon and bringing Esbern dragon materials for a potion before reading the elder scroll. Once done, read the scroll and just never talk to them again. I go back just to steal Esberns dragon atlas book and never look back at them, that way the quest doesn't even show up in my log. After the peace council i shout those 2 off the mountain and i'm done.
This is what i do every playtrough
Wait, so you can skip the whole dragon kill thing.
@@caiden6969 Yeah you can both keep Partysnax alive and get all the blade rewards... oh and not have the quest in your journal ever. All without console commands or mods
@@Patrick_The_Pure I realized that by speaking to arngeir. Thanks
That's what I did in my latest playthrough.
" Is it better to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort ? "
I always found this to be the best line of dialogue in the entire game
It is literally better to be born good.
Don't forget he murdered THOUSANDS of innocent people. And before you say "that was a long time ago" remember he is IMMORTAL.. a thousand years might as well be a weekend to him.
Not to mention he's a ticking timebomb of betrayal. It's better to kill him, just to be safe. Hell, HE even agrees with you.
Honestly it was that line of dialogue that saved Parthanax from my blade
@@christiansanchez1486 so if Hitler said "don't trust Nazis, but you can trust me, the biggest Nazi" you'd let him go. Good to know.
It was the first time playing Skyrim that made me actually stop and think of an answer, then I realized there wasn't one.
@@ZelphTheWebmancer the answer is be born good. It is literally better to be born good. Because "overcoming an evil nature" implies that you have done evil shit.
What's better? To have never done evil? Or to do evil?
I always wanted an option to challenge Delphene to a duel.
I might have shouted her down the mountain. when not taking the war quest xD. and i am not sorry.
There is a mod for that
I was pissed I could force the blades into forgetting about Paarthurnax so I got a mod to basically shout in Delphine face using Unrelenting Force in the actual conversation mechanic, after which she staggered back and fell to her knee then got up, winched in pain and said something like "ok ok you win" then the game proceeded like normal it was like the blades actual forgot Paarthurnax existed perfect mod
@@dallasfreeman3417 Yeah I already have that mod.
@@dallasfreeman3417 mod name pls
"The Paarthurnax Dilemma" is a mod that fixes this issue. It adds dialog that allows the Dragonborn to remind the Blades that they are sworn to obey and protect the Dragonborn. You even let out a bit of Thu'um (causing the screen to shake) when reading Delphine the riot act over how out of control she's being by threatening to betray her oath if we don't go kill whoever she wants us to kill.
Bosmeri Dovahkiin: "I might not be a proper dragon but I will still eat your sorry ass if you don't get back in line!"
Thank You
I deliberately installed that mod so that, (whenever I decide to continue with the main story line, I just took off the side of the mountain to explore) I can remind them that I'm their commander, not the other way around.
Underrated comment
It's so good, I just wish it wasn't by Arthmoor
Something I would like to see in the sixth entry of TES, is an order founded by Paarthunaax, one thay cemented the reputation of dragons as wise, inspirational creatures of finding the inner good from a life born to evil. As an organisation the player can become acquainted with, coming with their own side quests and exclusive rewards. This could either be an expansion of the Greybeards or an entirely new order that acts as a sibling group to the Greybeards.
"What happens if you dont kill paarthurnax" you get the good ending
@Wingardium Elviossa to atmora?
@@MoonlitMike I'm thinking either Atmora or Akavir. I have a theory that the Emperor you assassinate is actually another double. The real Emperor has been contacted by a descendant of Uriel Septim V. Uriel Septim V didn't "invade" akavir with a military dampaign or get defeated. Instead his army moved in under the guise of being slaves ships with more slaves for the Tseasci. The military went underground recruiting and training other slaves and locals. Because there's constant conspiring, subversion, usurpation and assassination in the heart of Tamriel/Cyrodillic Empire that is almost always agents of the Tseasci or the Thalmor. So for Humanity to be safe, free and independent, the Tseasci must be destroyed at the heart of it. However, it's going to take a coordinated effort and with the Stormcloak rebellion, a rightful Septim Emperor stepping in would help unite the races of man once again. That or the Dragon Born in TESV IS a septim bloodline heir, hence the Dragon blood. My guess is TESVI will likely be Atmora or Akavir, I'm thinking it'll be Akavir though. Plus they've been all over tamriel but Akavir would open up a whole new world and new Races. Sure there's humans on Akavir, but they're the minorities. Also the Blades, the Akaviri Warriors/Assassins, the Dragonguard (basically a sect of the Akaviri Warriors that became the Blades), the Morag Tong AND the Dark Brotherhood all have roots that stretch out to Tamriel from Akavir. If I remember correctly. When people think of Morag Tong they think Morrowind and Vaardenfell, when people think of Dark Brotherhood they think Blackmarsh and when people think of Dragon Guard or Blades they think Atmora. But, if I'm not mistaken, all these groups trace back to Akavir.
@Wingardium Elviossa There will probably be no dragons and almost guarantee you wont be Dragonborn in TES 6. Maybe DB will be mentioned in lore or someone might claim their DB but the PC wont be.
@Wingardium Elviossa I believe that the Dragonborn became trapped in Apocrypha because Hermeus Mora tempted him with knowledge and he failed and succumbed to his need to rule… dark ending
Agreed let the blades rot. Paarthurnax lives.
I wish that sparing Parturnax would do something about some of the random dragon attacks once you beat the main quest. They can get so annoying when your in the middle of a town or city and the dragons just start killing all quest essential npcs.
Or they should have made all vendors Essential
You should do a playthrough of Skyrim it's awesome to know you play it
I just wish paarthunax could of have you more bonuses to your shouts
For some reason with my first character back in the day, after I finished the main quest dragons became wayyy rarer. They stopped spawning at the word walls that were on mountains etc.
It didn't happen for my newer (and modded) characters though...
i never thought you liked skyrim??? personally i favorited morrowind
Parthurnax earned his redemption eons ago. If it weren't for him there would be only dragons.
The fact that after eons he still fights his inner self just shows his level of determination, as well as prove that one can become good throught great effort.
I would rather have a peaceful dragon than two stubborn dragon boomers.
Love how accurate "two stubborn dragon boomers" is. Seriously, I have not and never will betray my best boy Parthurnax.
This sums up my thoughts pretty well, along with the other statements that Delphine and Esbern are traitors to the Blades because their oath states that they swear fealty to the Dragonborn, yet they refuse to help until you kill Paarthurnax. That being said, there is a single argument I've seen for killing him that I want to debunk, in that if you don't kill him and he does eventually lose that fight against his inner self after you've died of old age or whatever, he'd more or less become the new Alduin, and cause all sorts of trouble across Tamriel.
The issue I have with that theory is that you don't need a Dragonborn to kill Paarthurnax. Any shmuck with a weapon can kill a dragon, it was only Alduin that needed a Dragonborn to kill him, because only they could learn Dragonrend and have their Voice match the strength of a dragons. We even see an example of non-dragonborns killing dragons, during the flashback using the Elder Scroll, you see two ancient nordic heros - both of whom aren't dragonborn - kill a dragon, with one of them mentioning having killed *four* dragons that day. They didn't even use a shout to aid in killing them, just standerd weapons. So even if Paarthurnax *did* return to his nature, you'd have the Greybeards right there to stop him, along with any other skilled warriors that are still alive and around.
In fact, the Greybeards may serve two roles with regards to Paarthurnax if you follow this line of reasoning; Paarthurnax helps teach them the Thu'um, and in return, they help Paarthurnax combat his nature - and if he fails that fight, are there to stop him before he gets too far out of control.
@@ShadeDergon97 Exactly. And lets be real here. If Paarthurnax hadn't such a strong determination, he would have gone berserk long ago. He's gone through so much effort to redeem himself that I doubt he would ever fall to his dragon urges. And even if he did, he would provably just go relieve some stress against some trolls and regain his senses (not even dragons are made of stone... maybe gargoyles).
The blades are completly blind and hypocritical. They either listen to the dragonborn or they extinguish their order because of their stuck up attitude. With the dragonborn backing them up, they could get more volunteers and be safe from the Thalmor, but nooo... killing the dragon that helped humans is so much better.
@@ReverieNightengale Welcome to the club. I wish there was an official way to slap Esbern and Delphine to see reason and shut up about killing Parthurnax. The blades should defend Skyrim from attacking dragons, not dragons that would try not to cause distruction.
That's another good point; at the end of the day, without the Dragonborn acting as the face of the Blades (or their mascot, or whatever), they're not gonna get many, if *any* new recruits; either because the new recruits either realize how hypocritical the current members are, or they'd fear being attacked by the Thamor or whatever, or they'd just ignore the Blades since they hold no power - not even as dragonslayers. Meanwhile, if they did listen the Dragonborn, they'd have a powerful (both physically and metaphorically) icon to get others to join.
Who the hell kills Paarthurnax!???
I did. 1 shot with bow.
People that don't fall to zen dragon trickery, that's who
I did once but i wanted to do both endings 😅
Not killing Parthanax puts the player in the same position as Parthanax. That nature to destroy is always there. We as players kill and destroy as a part of the basic game loop. When Parthanax says his line about overcoming evil nature every day, it also relates to the player (the most powerful thing in Skyrim). If you don't kill him, you have to face the quest to do so every time you play, and must overcome your own nature to destroy
I don't know how, but since I talked with Paarthurnax about the Blade want me to kill him and lead to his famous quote about overcome evil nature, the quest disappeared. It is not the case the quest is failed, if it is it will remain in the finished quest, just failed, but here the quest is no more, like it's not even exist in the first place
@@letrongtin1535 WELL THEN... Congratulations you are pure of heart and don't have to overcome your evil nature I guess xD
One good deed doesn't redeem someone. But one bad one is enough to damn them for eternity. -Me. Paarthurnax isn't a perfect being. But, he saved the world as we know it. To me, he's earned one more chance
one of the best analysis ive ever seen 😢
@@letrongtin1535 if you ignore quests and keep playing they sometimes disappear from the journal. if you play long enough
I’ve killed Paarthunax once since I started playing the game, just to see what happened after the fact and how everyone reacted…I felt so bad that I reloaded my last save an hour before just so he’d be alive again
@Wingardium Elviossa now time for me to download it 😂
I think I did that too
Me too 😅
Same and i was younger but i never killed him again.
They even make the bonuses super fukin good like devs were begging for you to kill the only good dragon
Who dares to kill Partysnacks? He is your bro, also I think it is cool to have an ancient dragon that trust and help you.
Finally!! Someone says his name correctly!! Even Nordman was struggling to say Partysnacks!
@@addictedtojet Partysnacks is best boy, yeah I always refer to him like that.
PARTYSNACKS OMG
Partysnacks....that cracks me up!
I kill partysnacks, suffer no dragon to live
I killed him one time on my second playthrough. I was doing the opposite of my first, and when I did, I deleted all save files so I wouldn't have it on file only in memory. He was bad in the beginning, but as explained, he overcame his evil to be as good as he can be. He's definitely one of my favorite characters in this wonderful game that I love so much.
I have played over 1000 hours of skyrim at this point. Playing different characters, races, backstories, modded, unmodded. Each playthrough being as unique as the last. The only thing in common among all my saves is I have NEVER killed paarthurnax once, even for curiosity lmao.
That's what the internet's for, really
@@charcharrockzxboxpc3164 I haven't even looked up what happens if I do kill him. Its one of if not the only thing I do not know about Skyrim.
@@Merilirem ill give you a clue: he dies 😱
post first run there was nothing unique about your playthroughs. stop the cap
I think i will never be able to kill cicero for my case
"What if you didn't kill Paarthurnax?"
Literally 98% of Skyrim players who beat the game: "What if you inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide?"
Saying Paarthurnax will turn heel is like saying oxygen will get you killed in the long run.
@@arminosas My point is that for us Skyrim players, sparing Paarthurnax is as natural as breathing.
@@fransthefox9682 I did get your point, i was just going on a tangent a bit
@@arminosas Ah. Okay.
Yeah really. Never got to this point, but my first thought when the blades requested his death was, I should tell the greybeards...
Blades: Kill the dragon before it returns to its roots.
Dragonborn: I'm also a dragon, so why haven't you killed me?
Blades: error, can not understand.
Tbf, Paarthunax was like the Darth Vader of dragons-- he was 2nd in command behind Alduin and acted as the enforcer.
@@macggnore Darth Vader also redeemed himself in the end.
@@Birbuciferthis ☝️
@Pepper1770 he also died. Something that wise Skyrim players make Paarthunax do.
playing skyrim vr was so cathartic when it came after season unending, because i could actually look at delphine, reach out, and slap her in the face to cut her off before she could tell me to do anything, just so that i never even had the quest show up in my log.
The moment that the Blades acted as if they were the ones in control of the relationship with the person they're supposed to serve, I was out. "We won't have anything to do with you if you don't kill him" "Bitch don't tell me what to do. I can walk to Elewen tomorrow and go 'The blades are here, go get 'em.' You're just lucky I like you more than the Thalmor. Now shut up and follow your oath to serve me."
I’d love to threaten Delphine with the Thalmor, especially after sapping her armor rating with Marked for Death. Her and Esbern are insufferable
@@eriklakeland3857 nah, I agree delphine is shit but don’t bad mouth the old guy. At least he is more reasonable and temperate about the situation. Only if he was the one to answer to and not delphine 😭
@@somenitrogenconsumer8859 I agree I always found him to be reasonable and possibly able to forgive him if he actually met him. Plus he apologizes for Delphine and actually was interesting and knowledgeable. Still would kill Delphine if I could tho.
You are the master and they are their to serve you?
@@thomasennis6289 yeah, blades are obliged to serve the dragonborn
No matter the play through
No matter the character
From Arch Mage to Companion
Nightingale to Listener
From Vampire Lord to Dawnguard commander
An Oblivion Walker to a Vigilant of Stendarr
Paarthunax has always been there to aid I’m my journey.
No matter the life, he’s been there to share his wisdom
Paarthunax is a true friend
Through all these years, I never kill Paarthunax
Never have…
and never will
Cringe
@@edguillotine7704 shut up
I always killed him
@@edguillotine7704 kid
But what if you roleplay a despicable character? That's when I do it (or the character does it)
I’ve never considered killing him, even in my evil vampire play through.
I'm always an evil vampire. Can't help it, there's just no way to not be an evil vampire for me... But I still never kill Parthurnax. Never have, never will.
@@fusion9619 Vampire is pretty broken
@@Thecontentmustflow in a good way. OP. But dawnguard is literally broken, it's like they didn't finish it
@@fusion9619 I can see that. Soul Cairn felt a little undercooked. It felt like it was going to be bigger.
Ikr
Exactly the blades don't care if you want something you're supposed to be their boss but they see themselves above you
I always got the impression delphine was just a crazy believer in dragons all along and when alduin made his return and brought back dragons she was so hyped. She was desperate to find more dragon action anywhere she could and was like Oooh! Look paarthunax is a dragon, lets kill em.
Killing him is the correct choice he even states every day is a temptation to go back to his old ways and the Dragonborn is literally the only one that can permanently end him as a future threat if he truly loved humanity he’d ask you to end him himself
Incorrect choice, he is the reason the humans in TES and many other species are free, as if he had not lead the dragon rebelling with the humans, the world of Nirn would still be under dragon tyranny. He is a good dragon.@@logandelaharpe6362
@@logandelaharpe6362he controlled himself for centuries, he controlled himself when alduin came back and the dragonborn was still weak, he allowed you to beat alduin and guided you through entirely, i dont think that after all that he will break to any temptation
@logandelaharpe6362 false.
The only reason dragons could never die was because of Alduin. No Alduin no way to revive dead dragons meaning regular warriors can kill them and they cant be revived.
Parthurnaax knows this and also doesn't want Dragons to waste their life and wants them to find purpose beyond they're nature. He doesn't want Dragons to waste their lives fighting meaningless battles of conquest and domination. He's truly changed and wants to help other dragons change as well.
They even had the wrong hypothesis on why the dragons are returning.. such an unworthy faction to rebuild..
My argument for NOT killing Paarthurnax (and I wish I could code so I could make a mod for this) is that, on my very first playthrough, I actually READ all those plaques littered along the path to High Hrothgar. I won't cut and paste the writings but the gist of it is that Kynne saw both how men suffered and that Paarthurnax wanted to help them and so she approached him and asked him to teach humans how to use the thuum. As far as I'm concerned, a divinity asking someone to get involved speaks volumes to their character.
Reread those plaques. 🤣🤣 He is no hero and "being good" after torturing murdering and enslaving millions isn't enough.
There is indeed a mod for sparing parthurnax, I cannot recall its name but in the mod you go to delphine and essentially scare the shit out of her using a mixture of English and dragon speech to end the quest without killing anyone
Stop wishing and learn this skill it is ez as everything is ez once u learn the basix. Where to start? Seek and ye shall find and this is true for anything u seek I simply hope your ambitions are pure and not used for wicked intentions my friend.
@@hughmann9568🙄 I have, I suggest you do the same. I've taken the liberty of C&P from the UESP site so you can brush up on your lore - Emblem IV should prove to be of particular interest.
Emblem I - Before the birth of men, Dragons ruled all mundus.
Their word was the Voice, and they spoke only for True Needs.
For the Voice could blot out the sky and flood the land.
Emblem II - Men were born and spread over the face of Mundus.
The Dragons presided over the crawling masses.
Men were weak then, and had no Voice.
Emblem III - The fledgling spirits of me were strong in Old Times.
Unafraid to war with Dragons and their Voices.
But the Dragons only shouted them down and broke their hearts.
Emblem IV - Kyne called on Paarthurnax, who pitied Man
Together they taught Men to use the Voice
Then Dragon War raged, Dragon against Tongue
Emblem V - Man prevailed, shouting Alduin out of the world
Proving for all that their Voice too was strong
Although their sacrifices were many-fold
Emblem VI - With roaring Tongues, the Sky-Children conquer
Founding the First Empire with Sword and Voice
Whilst the Dragons withdrew from this World
Emblem VII - The Tongues at Red Mountain went away humbled
Jurgen Windcaller began His Seven Year Meditation
To understand how Strong Voices could fail
Emblem VIII - Jurgen Windcaller chose silence and returned
The 17 disputants could not shout Him down
Jurgen the Calm built His home on the Throat of the World
Emblem IX - For years all silent, the Greybeards spoke one name
Tiber Septim, stripling then, was summoned to Hrothgar
They blessed and named him Dohvakiin
Emblem X - The Voice is worship
Follow the Inner path
Speak only in True Need
@@hughmann9568 Shut up Delphine
I’ve never killed Paarthurnax and never will. Without his love for humanity, there would have been no chance at all. Long live Paarthurnax! Long live our dragon brethren!
Dragonity
I’ve killed him on every play through, he’s just an NPC
@@korywormington4036 You're an NPC
I killed him and enjoyed it. I wanna do it over and over again. Slay all them dragons. Long live DEEZ NUTZ
@@xROMPERSTOMPERx did i ever tell you what the definition of insanity is ?
I never thought there is another options. Man, i am at peace right now
Parthurnaax - actually did his best to change and become good.
Blades - "If you don't do what we say, we won't be your friends anymore!"
Yeah, the choice of letting him live was easy for me...
Blades: Do it or we arent your friends anymore!
Me: *Its not like I never wanted you as my friend in the first place*
@@bennypatrick6535Lol my Dragonborn and Delphine were always prickly with each other.
"You better start explaining. Fast."
"i dOnT owE yOu nOtHIng i cOUlD hAve kiLlED yoU wHeN yOu wAlKEd iN!1"
Ah, the start of a beautiful 'friendship'...
Esborn is awesome though. His only fault is agreeing with Delphine on killing Partysnax.
@@BlueGhostofSeaside bro delphine will tell the FULL EBONY ARMOR DRAGONBORN WITH A DAEDRIC SWORD TAHT DEALS 117 DAMAGE + 15 FIRE DAMAGE. that she couldve killed me when i walked in
Your comment for the blades was perfect, and I even read it with that snotty tone and mannerisms of somebody who thinks they're better then you lmao
@@BlueGhostofSeaside same. I never liked Delphine. Even after you tell her, "yes I'm dragonborn, I absorbed a soul and now can shout" she's just "yeah still don't believe you let's go kill another so you can prove it" like b**ch you're a total stranger, why should I have to prove anything to you?
“What is better: to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” ~ and I decided to not kill him
Yah that was a philosophical line I was not expecting in a video game. It really made me think
Legit that line made me say nope not doing it. Not once in any playthrough
@@LionBlood It's kind of funny that it was also delivered by Super Mario's voice actor.
@@LionBlood that line was the reason I killed him, I don't need morality in a game, I'm here to destroy.
@@S-AI6 wow cool badass
If you wait long enough after he talks to you and flys off. The dragon that flew you to the temple to take the portal to fight Alduin, will arrive and have dialogue with you as well. He basically tells you that you can summon him whenever and that he respects your thuum. BUT also says that majority of the dragons will not follow Paarthurnax and will denounce his teachings regardless.
I thought it was kinda interesting. On one of my play throughs, I used that as my “reason” to kill him, because I wanted to explore the blades quest line (which is so unrewarding and not worth killing Paarthurnax.)
Yeah, and also I have always found his first sentence in that speech: "Paarthurnax's Voice Tiranny is not that different from Alduin at the end" (dunno the original english since I play in my language) very funny
@@schteusciarrotta6433 Yep, for Ohdaviing Paarthurnax is a tyrant like Alduin, just one wanted power and the other peace, and in Ohdaviing's mind it is both opressing, as being a DRAGON peace and compassion must be extremelly hard, and need a lot of self control.
I'm SO blown away rn, a full decade after first starting this game and having completed it so many times over...wow. Great video.
Now that I am 20 years old, that quote hits different, “ is it better to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort” my god this game was actual art
Yes, it's interesting how differently we view the idea of good and evil when we are children vs. when we are adults.
Just keep in mind that something doesn't have to be "objectively evil to any and all observers including itself" in order to be incompatible with sometjing else.
Smallpox wasn't out to eat children while twirling it's mustache maniacally. It's not comming for us because we were anathema to it. It was simply following it's nature. An asteroid comming towards earth wouldn't be acting with evil intentions. Or any intention at all.
Some things are just "mutually exclusive".
If a virus' nature is to infect, even if that'll kill, we get it first. If the laws of physics are guiding that meteor here, we get it first. If a dragon's nature is to oppress, even if that'd kill, we get it first. Not because _we_ are the ones that set out to be the vilains of the story but because oppression and death are incompatible with free, living people
The lack of one objective, universal truth, or the presence of several subjective viewpoints doesn't mean they're all mutually inclusive, or even compatible
"Ignorance is bliss" as its said.
Wow, if you think this game is art, wait until you play a game that's actually good!
@@Luckmann You have some high standards for what's good. I mean, I'm not going to call Skyrim art (outside of the technical sense), but it is a good game. There's some actual crappy games out there that don't care at all. Most games fall into the 'good' category these days, or worse. Games better than skyrim are nice, but they are rare gems that should not be held as a standard.
I love that if you receive the quest to kill him and completely ignore it until you kill alduin it doesn't show up in your quests anymore. Parthranax is one of my favorite characters of all time. Never in ten long years of playing skyrim have I lifted sword or sorcery against him.
I think parturnax is actually the good guy and the blades are the evil ones.
Ive never killed him.
And when I got bend will shout I don’t kill any dragons just as a curtesy and fellow dove.
I did one time but regretted it right away.
@@Little-She-Devil the blades are definitely not evil. Delphine is a bit unpleasant but the blades are good. The player characters of Morrowind and Oblivion become members of the order.
@@slinkyslink5161 well maybe they are not truly evil. But they aren’t very morally good in Skyrim.
They literally say: you are either with us or against us.
@@Little-She-Devil wanting to kill paarthurnax isn't evil. It's something you could reasonably argue against doing but there is reason behind their stance towards him.
I achieved this ending on my first *completed* play through without knowing. I knew I was not going to kill the dragon, and I was content with just letting the quest stay unfinished indefinitely. It wasn’t until days later I discovered the extra dialogue option. I’m glad the game has that ending, and the only way to discover it naturally is by surviving that test (unless sheer dumb luck made u discover it unintentionally).
I just wish Lydia had survived long enough to see it that play through.
RIP our Queen Lydia....
Lydia died?
Killing him is the correct choice he even states every day is a temptation to go back to his old ways and the Dragonborn is literally the only one that can permanently end him as a future threat if he truly loved humanity he’d ask you to end him himself
Absolutely I never killed him to this day. I have morals even as a hired hitman. There is a code 👍
How did you this ending I’m so confused how to get the opinion
Even in my "evil" playthroughs Partha-snacks survives.
But those 2 dont due to an ancient thuum of
setessential 00013478 0
setessential 00013358 0
This is why I downloaded the mod to bypass killing him by tell the Blades to get in line and obey their oath or you'd shout them to Oblivion. Then I still ignored them for the rest of the game and just left them to rot in the cave as I am to sickened by them. Only other mod I have ever used is the alternate start, at least i got use out of it. =)
Where?
Can I have this mod
@@MarioFlynnCr33 Parthanax dilemma, I'm pretty sure it's available on pc and console.
@@chriss____Parthanax Dilemma. Nexus mods and a few others I'm sure, I Think it's available on console too.
That's one thing that always bugged me in Vanilla Skyrim. It's not just the Blades. You aren't really the LEADER of any of the factions, you're just their number one hatchet man. You don't get to order minions around or change policies. Delphine telling me the Blades were basically created to serve the Dragonborn and then basically treating me like her number one gopher always ticked me off.
I love the mod where it lets you do something similar to the greybeards and use your shout on the Blades telling them that they will follow your lead and follow YOUR orders, not demand shit like Parturnax's death
Whats the mod name
@@surreal9583 There are a few. I've used two. One is "The Paarthurnax Dilemma." I'm currently using "Paarthurnax - Quest Expansion."
I quite the game many years ago because I refused to kill Parthanax but also refused to play on without all the cool stuff the blades give you... This mod is perfect!!
I would love to tell them "The Blades were founded to protect and listen to the Dragon Born, not order them around, so either listen to what I say or admit you aren't Blades"
I mean I have Bend Will for a reason xD
In all my playthroughs even the most evil of one's that destroyed cities for fun, I could never kill big P. He never did me wrong, not once, and helped to end the reign of big A.
Right. After my first heroic playthru years back, every subsequent playthru I have been legit evil. I make all the horrible choices. I kill Braith's parents just so she's sent to honorhall orphanage... she is more annoying than Nazeeem. I murder Aerin because he's a cringe loser, and I laugh when Mjoll discovers his body. I marry the psycho girl from the first Dark Brothehood quest... and I make her a vampire. I choose the Stormcloaks because I can't stand Ulfric Stormcloak and his victory, with his idiot Jarls, only ensures the Thalmor will conquer Skyrim.
...but I NEVER kill Paarthanax. I'm not scum.
I've killed Paarthurnax so many times and felt bad about it on every one. Thanks for the vid man. I know what this current playthrough needs me to do to make it right!
I've played through this game at least 4 times. I didn't even realize there were other ending besides the one with Paarthurnax. He's the entire reason you are able to defeat alduin in the first place.
I didn't even realise there was an option to kill him. I got to the end of the game after the "good" ending and went online. "did you kill Paarthernax?!!" im like wait.. wtf!
Yeah... I didn't realize this was an option, I thought the blade temple was cool and all by ole parthy is one of the boys.
Ole parthy is indeed one of the boys. Ride or die with that muhfucka
The way Christopher Plummer delivers the line "Begone! Before even MY philosophy is tested beyond the breaking point. We are men of peace, and you are not." Gives me fucking chills every time. The Greybeards are so fucking cool.
There is a mod that seems to bring back cute out voice lines that makes it to where you can force the blades to not kill him and basically forces the quest along so you can rebuild the blades and keep parthanax alive its one of the best mods because I'm not going to ever kill him rather wipe out the blades
Those lines were added by the mod, there's a voiced version too.
They're not cut voiced lines.
It's spliced audio.
Those aren’t cut voice lines. They’re made up.
I have only ever killed him once just to see what the blades offer then went back
They need to, after saying that you won't kill him to Arngeir, give you the option to kinda scare the blades, as a simple reminder that The Greybeards, even though they're not as powerful as the DragonBorn, can still kill anyone with just a whisper, and make the mountain shake, and rattle all around them
There's a mod for this. The Paarthurnax Dilemma, it's so much more satisfying than the original.
@@moethelester-un9vkwhat's it about? Does the Dragonborn absolutely bitch slap Delphine? Do they have voicelines?
Oh no, the Graybeard's voice is far stronger than the level the Dragonborn ever reaches in the game. They know and practice the voice, meditate over it.
@@romeoalpasthor5187 in what source?
@@randyrandom3358 Arengir is the only Graybeard that is still able to speak while keeping his voice low. Even while whispering "dovakhiin" the other Graybeards shake up their environment. They also can shout so loud and yet so clear that we hear them calling us up to the mountain while we are at Whiterun.
I never seemed to notice this before, but if you look at Parthurnax's and Alduin's wing shapes, Parthurnax's are shaped like angel wings and Alduin's like demon wings
ive seen something similar in ff14 with hraesvelgr and niddhog
@@joeyabraham9159 ewwwww that's a nasty weeb game
@@anontwentytwo1380 thats like saying Wow is a toxic neckbeard game
@@jackelss5853 what's wow?
@@EvilSantaTheTrue look it up
Paarthurnax is a trope I love in fiction. Someone who's done evil due to the society they are from, but through 1 reason or another has to be accepted as an ally, often because an almost extinction level threat is at hand and allying together it the only chance to survive. my favorites being the Arbiter from Halo, and Mithraax from Destiny, both were from an alien race that began a war with Humanity, a war of extermination where pretty much everyone of that faction wanted Humanity dead, but through their experiences saw that allying with Humanity was the only way both groups would survive what is coming. They did horrible things you could never forgive them for, but I'd say they are atoning for in some way by becoming wiser and changing, each build a new faction for their people ad allies to Humans, and go on to face any new threats together. Paarthurnax was evil because that was normal for Dovah, but he eventually saw Alduin's evil and allied to Humanity, since banishing Alduin through time he became the leader of the Greybeards and through them taught many Humans the Thuum, then when Alduin returns in ES5 Skyrim he allies with and teaches the Dragonborn. If he was still evil he's had thousands of years to attempt to conquer the world. He could have made the Greybeards his own Dragon Cult. He could have made these guys powerful warriors to conquer the world for him, but he didn't. He built up the Greybeards as a group for peace and non violence unless necessary.
Except when you're viewed as a Racist
@@CountryMetal01 Ok you really didn't need to bring race into this.
@@TheZamaron except RAce is in it
@@CountryMetal01 Oh right. I did mention race, my bad.
When I heard you mention Arbiter I knew you were a man of culture
This was amazing. I'm glad the algo recommended your video.
I didn’t want to kill Paarthurax, but as I began using my bound bow, he wouldn’t die. His HP would refill and he wouldn’t move so I said whatever and fast travelled to whiterun. Once I get there I get a message that he died and Miraak stole a soul. So now my game is bugged and about 25% of the time when I fast travel Paarthurax’s skeleton shows up on top of me to remind me of my actions
What a curse
Literally haunted by past actions.
Wow, that's pretty freaky.
Good. The game gave you what you deserved 😂
Is it really bugged though, or just reminding you that you're a murder hobo and need to change your ways? 😛
First time the blades told me to do this I was doing an Assassin run... Never give someone with the ability to instantly kill you an ultimatum. *ESPECIALLY* in a hidden cave no one knows about and only said Assassin can access.
Wait a minute. You can kill Delphine?! I've always thought she was an essential NPC.
@@onepunchsaitama5081 you can use console commands to make those two bitches inessential
@@onepunchsaitama5081 well she was at one point, after telling me to kill Paarthurnax I found this little console command that just so happens to remove essential NPC's invincibility. Unrelated: Delphine and Esburn suddenly had acute heart failure and passed away shortly after...
@Bri. F. Someone else commented that there's actually a mod for that!
It’s really weird how you never get a chance to sort out the Blades one way or the other. It’s like the game just assumes they sit there with empty threats at their designated commander and then nothing happens between them again.
Paarthurnax has always been one of my favorite characters, and remember the sense of sadness I felt the first time I heard him bid me farewell. I thought that was it, he was out of he game, and I would never see him again. What a relief it was to see him respawn the first time I returned. True, he didn't have much dialogue after that, but it was nice to know that I could return to the Throat of the World, and "visit him" whenever I wanted. I never killed him, and I never will. Oblivion take Dalphene and the rest of the Blades!
He returns?? THANK AKATOSH!!! I was scared… the rest of his dialogue isn’t much, but it’s significant!
Father Akatosh. My mentor. I became the 10th divine because of him. Paarthurnax used the way of the voice not to enslave,, but to teach and guide. Were it not for him? I wouldn't have defeated Alduin. To hell with the blades, I don't need them anyway
"The Blades serve the DragonBorn"
*"Kill the only good Dragon or we won't help you....."* Amazing service 10/10
My reasoning was "if Parthunaax ever steps out of line, I will deal with him then. But until that day arrives if you want to kill Parthunaax Delphine, you will have to go through me. I am the Dragonborn, I answer to no one!"
But do you recruit someone else to keep an eye on him after you die or is the immortal-being-to-thom-time-is-meaningless off the hook if he can wait around a few decades?
And _are_ you going to follow him around? Or just hoping that middle ages CNN will be around to report in real time on what's he doing anywhere in the globe, even on different continents people in Tamriel literally know nothing about?
I do get the last part though. You'd think _the_ dragonslayers would fall in line behind *the* dragonslayer when he's finally facing off against THE dragon specially after being uncerimoniously fired by the non dragonslayers that turned them into glorified bodyguardd, but no. "fIrSt YoU nEeD tO pRoVe YoU'rE wItH uS"
You get this dialogue with Parthanax whether you talk to Arngeir or not. Telling Arngeir you're not going to kill him is just an extra piece of dialogue. I definitely wish they would have did a little more with this just like every other quest in the game.
Can confirm. I got the Parthanax dialogue without speaking with Arngeir. I didn’t even know you could speak to him about killing Parthanax until now.
same here @@B16Motorworks
I wish the Arngeir dialog about not killing him would erase the quest log.
I have never killed Paarthurnax, and I actually discovered the dialog with Arngeir by accident. Paarthurnax is definitely my favorite character in the entire game 😊
Killing Parthurnax felt like Betrayal.
Really says a lot how few people actually go through with parthurnaxs murder. He was a wise old lizard, worthy of at least Some respect, despite his past. Especially when you consider that no matter what you do or how long you play you can never 100% this game if you don't complete that objective.
The objective disappears after you beat the game tho. Funnily enough you can still just kill him after it. Objective or not.
I happen to have not killed parthanax but not due to morals or storyline. When I happened to be talking with him a weird glitch occurred where his body contorted and he slowly and surely disappeared in the clouds. I think he went to the moon.
He used the secret shout "disappear"
A similar thing happened to me, but he just flew straight upward, spinning on his axis while ascending into the reaches of space. Or, as Space Core put it, SPAAAAAAAAACE!
@@spartan7852nah, he use the ancient secret shout called Bath 'Es Da
I actually accidentally got this path during my first play through
All because of my habit of talking to every npc i encounter amd skipping dialogue
Until my cousin asked me if i enjoyed the parthanax battle
And it confused me because i never fought him
I thought i made a mistake until i played it the second time this time reading the dialogues and glad that i didnt kill him
Can I ask why you play like that? Is that fun? Never even knowing what you're doing, literally just mashing buttons is your gameplay basically. I'm not judging, I'm just asking because I have a few friends that do the same thing, and it seems very very unfun to me
@@tortellinifettuccine some people love to smash dialogue button because killing enemies in main mission sometimes more fun and enjoyable than side mission. While people who want exclusive reward is more enjoyable in side mission.
@@tortellinifettuccine I spam the button on everything and quicksave before talking to them incase I did something bad, I also did things like what if I kill them, like the dark brotherhood mission where you have to kill 1 of 3 guys and I attacked the lady on the shelf and got a ending I never got before.
@@tortellinifettuccine because I'm afraid that if i don't ill miss something, but still find it kinda boring to do so rush through it and end up missing stuff that way
Delphin was the first character in skyrim to ever get added to my "GO FUCK YOURSELF" list. The second is lord Harkon, after learning what he did to his family members and the dark lore behind it.
Delphine is much worse in my opinion. They lost their way, boss you around ,and demand agregious things. So in all my playthroughs by far they got the "setessential 00013478 0
setessential 00013358 0" treatment.
there's a mod called the Parturnax dilemma that I use basically let's me tell Delphine as Dragonborn I am in charge, an effect I like with it is when she argues it makes out you use your power (shaking camera ad sound effect) to intimidate her back into her place as your subordinate after that everything goes back to normal like she never brought it up in the first place.
I wish that existed when I rage quit the game all those years ago after refusing to pick a side!
Basically a mandatory mod for me. I don't mind moral dilemmas, just so long as they aren't forced on you by your insubordinate minions (yes, Delphine, that's what you are, a _minion_ ).
Unfortunately, that mod is unvoiced, as far as I know, so you will need to have subs on (if you don't normally) to get through the dialog. There's another, Paarthurnax - Quest Expansion, that does a similar thing but gives Delphine and Esbern voices in response (using modified and edited voice clips, but for the most part the dialog feels fairly natural for what it is.)
Yes I have that. and i tell them off
I never killed Parthurnax but in this last line, you can sense his natural thirst for domination when he's speaking of dominate dragons under his will.
He is not evil, no one is truly evil in the TES universe. But he still a dragon.
Funny enough, when I finished the game and saw that I were the leader of every guilds of the whole province, I realised that the dragonborn being technically a dragon, he is wired for domination too.
Technically it’s a good way of using his thirst for domination, basically his followers will be that way through being peaceful
@@scorp8576 I think too, but let's not forget that Parthuurnax haven't erased his pulsions, he still is fighting against it. Someday he could lower his defenses for some reasons and be back to his old self.
@@Lusyphel it's not a curse or something, I think you mean his temptation much like how a vegetarian may crave meat
not really. Dominating is one thing. to lead is another. never confuse the two. The dragonborn was always destined to be a leader, not only in skyrim, but to all races. He is even the rightful heir to the Imperial throne. Even the current emperor knew that very well.
@@praxiann7615 no it's different. Dragons are naturally wired to dominate. For a dragon to repress his nature it would more be like a carnivorous animal that refuse to eat meat even if his instinct told him that he must
I just want to say, I got this game when I was eleven. I played through the main campaign in a week, and I really wanted to complete every quest and learn everything. But when they told me to kill Parturnax, eleven year old me thought "what is wrong with these people?! Maybe I should fight them instead!" I have never killed parturnax in all of my play throughs. I love him as a character, and even if there will always be a quest I've never finished in Skyrim, I can die happy knowing that I didn't kill him.
Thank you SpencerRose!!
This is exactly what I was takiing about guys...
If an ELEVEN YEAR OLD is saying "killing Paarthurnax is a bad idea", then it's probably a bad idea!
Actually, it disappears after you defeat Alduin. Mine did.
@@sophiemendez5567 I've always gotten the quest to kill Paarthurnax after killing Alduin.
@@v-force1379 right after alduins wall, bring the 3 for the blades, get the 2 upgrades from esbern, get all the dragon and blade weapons from the inn and karthspire temple, etc. Do a few quests with your 3 blades, then never return. After the peace meeting between ulfric and tulips, Delphine should approach you, say kill party snacks, blah blah blah. Just ignore her, etc,etc. Finish the main quest on your own time, but when you do, you'll get the best ending, the quest goes away, and you never approach the blades again.
Lol, autocorrect 👆 tulips, not tulius.
Delphine: “Glad to have you back on our side.”
Dragonborn: YOU WORK FOR ME!!!
I always had the same view that the blades betrayed there duty to the dragon born by outright not talking to you until you kill parthanax, I always thought it would have been cool if the blades and the grey beards joined together and make a new organisation with dragons as allies
I also think killing the blades with the help of the greybeards would be really cool
@@exkiltersilva7483 I hate Delphine so much I'd love something like this
The greybeards straight up murdering someone would be completely out of character for them.
@@Franko384 uhhh I dont think so. Paarthurnax could help you convince them.
"You need to kill Paarthurnax."
"No. He has sought redemption for many an age and seeks further enlightenment. He has the blessing of Kynareth. He will live."
"Then we have nothing more to discuss. You're either with us or against us."
"Then you'd best leave this temple, oathbreaker. You are unworthy to wear this armor or stand before me. Leave this place and return to your inn, or I will make you wish you had died with your brethren!"
fun fact: if you just dont kill Parthuunax then the quest will disappear by itself
Wait is this true
I beated the main story and the dlcs with Parthuunax alive and the quest is still active
@@foxymaster87 strange. it dissapeared for me. the wiki also says that it should dissapear
@@enderfire3379 Do you play with mods?
@@enderfire3379 Same
It’s a shame they never included some way to come to a compromise between the two factions, even if it would have been long and overly complicated to achieve
Mod: The Parthurnax Dilemma
It could be better, but it gets the job done.
@@alecbrinker7268
My favorite TH-camr used than mod, literally : "I am the motherf* dragonborn, let me do what I want !"
Delphine : "Fair enough"
Damn, just watching this made me cry in 2023. Skyrim is a masterpiece, and I can’t state that enough.
I actually got this ending my first play through of Skyrim, and I had no idea that this was an alternate ending. I’ve beaten the full game of skyrim maybe twice and now I know. Thank you for the video may Partysnacks live on forever
Sane i thought this was the default ending
How can you remember , it was more than a decade ago ?
Lol, Partysnack. I like that one.
@@krisjanismezulis1958 So it's impossible to play Skyrim today? Were we only allowed to experience Skyrim a decade ago but now we can't?
This was the ending I got when I first beat the game. I immediately went to speak to the Greybeards about it because it made no logical sense for me to kill someone who had reformed themselves and even helped the people fight against Alduin the first time around. Settling a score from a time period no one even remembers anymore was not a sound enough reason for me.
I like Paathurnax
The thing about Dragons in Elder Scrolls is that they were created by the Gods that created the world with the sole purpose of destroying the world NOT for the sake of evil but because of the cycle of life (so that the Gods to create the world anew). The world was created and then destroyed and then recreated again and then destroyed again. So wanting them dead while it's not wrong it's actually very stupid. They're not evil they were just doing their job the Gods gave to them... well at least until Alduin stop destroying and decided to started a cult.
@@V1489Cygni huge difference, it's more like a Nazi officer realizing what he did was wrong, causing him to go and free the jews from the concentration camps, eventually going into self-imposed exile for his crimes. Alduin is hitler.
I think Paathurnax is a cool guy
@@V1489Cygni I get where you’re coming from, but the hitler comparison doesn’t really fit here. Paathurnax didn’t just “stop being bad”, he actively became one of if not the most essential force in fighting back the dragons and allowing for the races of Skyrim not to live in fear and oppression. If all Paathurnax had done was go somewhere remote and start helping a few locals then, yes, your comparison would be valid, and we would have much less reason for not wanting to kill him. But that just isn’t how it is
I totally found this completely on my own! It was so nice to be able to find this naturally in-game, and very rewarding since it was my intention to find some other way around killing him.
That was the only ending to skyrim I managed to get, and I'm pretty happy with it.
You get that ending even if you don't talk to Greybeards or Blades after the ultimatum
You get more depth into the lore but still it's just two endings, Parthy dead or Parthy alive.
After 11 years, numerous playthroughs, and 1000's of hours, never once have I killed Paarthurnax. Watching him die in this video was literally the first time I've ever seen it. I believe his words, and I believe it is possible to overcome evil within yourself if you try hard enough. And he's had centuries to try. Fuck the Blades if they can't see that.
Same. It was sad even seeing someone else kill him😢
Same here brother same here@@xCallxMExJJx
Game: You are given a task. In order to regain the side of the Blades, the great heroes… you must kill Paarthurnax.
Me: I mean… can’t we kill the Blades instead?
Yes I have the mod. You can end them.both after the wall quest they can die at the wall
Setessential 0, proceed to kill delphine
I literally just ignored the quest and got this ending anyways, so you can just finish the politics and then pretend delphine doesn't exist. That's what I've done on all 1 of my playthroughs, and what I'll continue to do on all future playthroughs.
the audacity of the blades. they should obey the dragonborn.
luckily there are modes that fix that
@@ScottEdgmand The legends say there is an ancient thuum that can be shouted to the gods of bethesda realm. It goes like this: "setessential 00013478 0
setessential 00013358 0". After this shout, delphine and esbern loose their plot armor and become vulnerable.
dude... this is beautiful. i will literally start another new game just to get this ending. i've always felt so sad about killing paarthurnax, but i found, at last, a way to NOT kill him. thanks bud
I just ignored the kill parthaax quest what was the other ending
Why would you even listen to Delphine. In ally countless playthrough never have I ever did the quest.
Great Video after playing this game over 11yrs I didn't know about this ending!! I've not killed him plenty of times just never talked to the gray beards about it! 😮
I have never and will never kill Parthurnaax. Even on my most evil of characters, he is such a good soul
I've never had the slightest temptation to kill Paarthunax.
Me neither friend
He simply doesn't deserve to die
I love how they refuse to serve us when we don’t kill Paarthurnax, like bitch i am the dragonborn YOUR ENTIRE EXISTENCE IS TO SERVE ME
Ok, so I am still learning the lore. Played skyrim to completion a while back, but just finished the first tutorial cave in oblivion for the first time. If the Blades are the Emperor's guards, and the dragons are allied with the Emperor, what changed? The Emperor and he line ended, but how did the Blades come to hate dragons and serve the dragonborn?
i remember there was a bug because of which Paarthurnax would die after you told him you won't kill him or if you ignored this quest for some time. that was really frustrating, because i never wanted him to die, i always liked him and visited him occasionally.
i remember always sticking up for paarthurnax and i never ever wanted to kill him and it brought a tear to my eye when i saw the correct end scene
In my 10+ years of playing this game I’ve never been able bring myself to kill Paarthurnax
Same here. I never once killed him.
“What is better to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort” truly words to follow.
"what is better, to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" really struck home to me, being what and how I am
It is literally better to be born good, because "overcoming an evil nature" implies you did some evil shit.
Like murdering thousands of innocents. Like paarthunax did.
I've never even considered killing Partysnaax. He's entirely the reason that you were able to defeat Alduin, and should always be able to carry on with his end goal of trying to get the remaining dragons in-line.
Alternatively, on my last playthrough, I was actually using the SkyTweak mod, and just went ahead and slayed all of the blades by toggling the ability to kill critical NPCs HA!
Killing him is the correct choice he even states every day is a temptation to go back to his old ways and the Dragonborn is literally the only one that can permanently end him as a future threat if he truly loved humanity he’d ask you to end him himself
@@logandelaharpe6362no. Just no
This^^^
Killing him is not correct, especially in the long term of the TES storyline Ill be very sad if when TES6 comes out there's no more dragons to be seen cause more people killed him than didn't.@@weavercs4014
"Partysnaax." 😂
Ppl who refer to him as partysnax are lame
i actually never realized that the ending where you speak with Paarthurnax wasn’t the only ending, because I never decided to kill him
Same
Although I've only done 1 playthrough, and I only accidentally triggered the Alduin fight
I accidentally got this on my first playthrough and have spent 12 years thinking it was a fever dream.
And this is why I got the parthurnax quest expansion, it lets parthurnax live and you basically get to tell the baldes: stfu, the baldes serve the dragonborn, and I am the dragonborn, and I say let him live, if you got a problem with that then just go to oblivion!
Take them to a cliff and tell them to Fus off lol.
That was the mod that made me want to mod this game. Such a pity that it was damn near impossible for me to do it. But now, years later, there's a few new mod managers I haven't tried.
Time to try again.
Cool bonus too, if you talk to him after beating Alduin, I do believe he lets you “meditate” and get new abilities. One of my personal favourite is ‘force without effort’ or something but essentially lets your push shout become massively more powerful and you being extremely hard to stun or knock over with shouts and weapons.
You can do this even before
Yeah…’massively more powerful’….no sorry! All it actually does is makes you prone to stagger 25% less and stagger your foes 25% more. In practice…it is barely noticable.
10+ years later and I’m still learning things about this game
I wish you could trick the Blades into thinking that Paarthunax is dead or something where Paarthunax lives and the Blades follow you
I've never killed Paarthurnax but he and and esbern were always my favorite npcs and i really liked the blades in morrorwind and oblivion it's really a shame how bad they are in skyrim
Personally, I’d love to hear the philosophical discussions Paarthurnax and Esbern would have if they just talked with each other. I feel like our Dragonborn could learn a lot just by listening in.
@@dr.hemlock5111true
The blades fell because they were corrupt.
They arent really an organization in skyrim they are just 2 old people that are stuborn.
I can't kill him. He's redeemed himself by helping others
But blades lost their way. so they get the "setessential 00013478 0 setessential 00013358 0" treatment in my playthroughs.
In my very first playthrough, I was shocked at being ordered to kill Paarthurnax. It was a completely horrendous curveball. It didn’t even bear consideration. So I happily resigned myself to having the unfinished quest in my journal forever.
I had no idea this ending existed despite several playthrough! Excuse my while I go fire up Skyrim and do this immediately lol
I completely ignored the request to kill Paartysnax and I got the same dialogue choices, I don’t think it changes anything besides him being at the Throat of the World in the end
Lemme see....a bunch of bloodthirsty delusional old people? Or a cool dragon uncle?..... DUHH COOL DRAGON UNCLE