No waffle, no intro...just straight into it, both barrels 😂. The performance from the Northish facing panels will be causing many people to reconsider conventional wisdom. It was only after fitting ours to our Southish facing roof that I understood the defuser effect of the clouds. We get greater generation in the early evening on a cloudy day than when it's sunny and the light has moved off the panels. Unfortunately, fitting panels to our north facing roof would require upgrading Inverter and associated wiring, so not a cheap addition. ....wish you'd been making videos 2 years ago! Hopefully will help someone who's starting their journey. Thanks for sharing.
Our pv have micro-inverters so easy to add as many or few as we like. Also, same 25 yr warranty as bi-facial panel (Rhia) which is what sold us, compared to lesser panel/inverter string at same cost!
@@UpsideDownFork Thanks for the video. Too late for me I made my decision but I had to fight it against many installers who kept telling me it is not worth the investment to have additional panels on the main roof NW. I finally managed to find one installer ok with that and after 4 months, I have similar results than you. Data don't lie. I am very glad I did my research and what was the turning point of my decision was 2 years ago now when I found out about software modelling the solar generation. so I simulated different location and even a west facing wall generate a fair bit. Good work Richard
Being in the south and sunny Southampton, with the brighter cloud cover, will make a big difference to viability of north facing panels. You are also in the higher COP zone for heat pumps for the economics of them. Also the kW/£ ratio for solar panels has increased greatly lately making them more economical. You don't necessarily need a big battery, just enough to get through the peak period and maybe to midnight when cheaper rates kick in. Thanks for the video.
Exactly regarding battery, our 10kw manages to cover daytime needs currently even with HP (don’t expect to in Winter) recharge as needed in cheap evening rate 23:30-5:30. That’ll cover rest of year but Winter, so 7.5p is what we pay 90%+ during this time for grid power. Solar free of course!
Great video/data again Mr Waffle:-) I have 2 panels on my NW roof and I compare output regularly to our 14 on SE. Since installation (mid Sept 23) they produced just under 70% of the highest producing SE panels. Yesterday it was 96%, later afternoon sun . They are bi-facial, micro-inverters & draw energy well despite trees around property. However, I’m comparing to individual panels which are the same. I am surprised at results - your video prompted my interest further - I now would not hesitate to expand NW roof panels. PS get a battery for sure, especially to help offset power with HP. I would definitely recommend Alpha ESS home battery (Heatable) good value, LFP & superb app (Enphase app/service is crap). We have 10kw it can expand modular to 40, but 15kw would charge overnight during 6hr cheap rate 7.5p Octopus. You can’t reasonably cover HP Winter use as you know but this amount works for house most of the year for us. Use more free solar, offset cheap power when expensive.
Thanks for real data. I've decided (despite what I wrote previously) to add a battery to my new system (to be installed next week). I think that Octopus Agile and load shifting is best financially for me. I'm paying a company to do the main roof, and battery, of my house but I'll be doing my garage roofs myself.
The necessity of optimizers is a contentious topic. Some folks think the bypass diodes are enough. Would they add time to the return on investment? Anyway, looking forward to our first summer since the installation to see what the system can really do! For March, we managed 576kwh from our 10kw SolarEdge system. Consumed 330kwh. So far so good 🌞
Our micro-inverters on Rhia panels (Heatable have good utube video about them) work well, low light & shading from trees surrounding property. Also, 25yr warranty match panels, easy to increase/change as modular - no string - really do well in defused light, cloudy.
Seen a video from someone who installed batteries, as well as controlling when he exports also imports from grid effectively trading electricity and making profit - my south side is in tree cover, hence no solar as yet, although considering roof changes to make this work in the future - but agree that light level on north side still is worth considering
We have 2PV systems, one to south one to north. The south was installed 14years ago and is 25% larger. The north system is just 2 years old and smaller, but as the south system produces 15000kw/h the north system produces whopping 11000kw/h . But now to the real kicker. While the south system costs 70000€ back then. The new north system costs WITH 10kw battery just 25000€.
Just checked mine, it does appear this is the case, some ones made a boo boo in the calcs. Its only recently that it started showing £'s for me on Flux.
Ive just discovered your videos, I had sunsynk 5.6kwh spread across 3 aspects and 2x 5.3kw batteries fitted in January. I have also switched to Octopus and now looking to have an ASHP to replace my back boiler. I find Sunsynks way of calculating the financial return to be a little over the top, according to the app i've already had 9% return on investment! Its not as good as that but my total electric bill from 10/1/24 to today so far has been less than £20 which includes the period before the seg was setup and a 5 day period when the system broke down due to an isolator burning out. Where did you get your spreadsheets to do your comparisons from? I have my own which include taking the readings from the generation meter but I don't know how useful this is proving to be. Great content.
Re the inverter reading slightly pessimistic in comparison to your meter. I was told from an inverter engineer that this was deliberate. Meters will never agree 100% and if it was reversed and the inverter meter showed a slightly higher reading than the consumption meter, there would be no end of calls to the technical assistance so now people feel good that their generation is a tad higher than expected and nobody complains.
I asked for a design that produced 10 kW and was initially surprised that meant 30% of the panels were north-facing. The biggest downside is snow, which takes longer to melt on that section. In other seasons those panels stay cooler so more efficient. Production swings from 9% of my total solar in December to 30% in June. Over a year, it's worth it, it's just those winter days when you want to see just one more kilowatt.
Just a thought, North West is very different to North facing. Other variance will be the angle of the roof as well as the age of panels. Good results and I tthink any solar is worth having.
Yes, very important points. The angle is 30 degrees on our roof. A steeper pitch roof would yield less with the NW orientation. The opinion of all solar installers I spoke with was don't bother with anything past 270 degrees, i.e. directly west facing. I hope my dataset over the next year will disprove that rule of thumb and show that sheer surface area can overcome suboptimal orientation. Fresh data coming in the morning 👍
Ithink you said that you had optimisers installed. Is this one per panel? The optimised figures seemed to show little benefit. Are they worth the additional cost. Thanks for all the info.
A battery would allow you to get ultra low cost - particularly if you have an EV. Intelligent is down at 7.5p overnight, my average cost (including the SC) last year was 7.51p which is absurd. This year I’m already at a similar rate and we haven’t even had we’ve not hit summer generation yet…
My March SSE panel average in Stratford-upon-Avon was 32kWh compared to your 33kWh 👍🏻 Battery tech very interesting, I went with an internal location as cells are very temperature sensitive from experience. LFP desirable but not offered by SolarEdge 🤨 Vehicle to grid with LFP my aim ⚡️
CT clamps are about 5% inaccurate, even my Victron Quattro reads about 5% over on import and export values compared to my Smart Meter. I have a Bright / Glow IHD and this allows Home Assistant to read the smart meter.
Surely your data on a SE/NE axis confirms the 50% idea for a due North facing roof? An exact alignment should give 87.5% and 62.5% compared to a pure S/N axis. All other things being equal that is. I speak from a position of complete ignorance on this subject though. I have a SE/NW axis and chase the sun too but as a gardener.
You might have missed the part of the video where I explain that the system was only commissioned on 27th January. Giving us just 5 days of generation in that month. The orientation has little to do with the Jan generation.
The displaced CO2 calculations are notoriously hand-wavey. Lots of assumptions, like what energy source you would have displaced had your panels not exported.
Battery vs using grid as a battery. If the grid pays you for electricity you make it is probably better to buy more solar panels instead of a expensive battery..
Yes, you're right. But only up to the export limit set by your DNO. Mine is 6.5kW export limited so any more panels would result in clipping during the summer months but may make up for it through extra generation in the winter. Careful calculation is needed.
Only if my import rate is competitive compared to my export rate though, right? Even on say Octopus Flux I would need the higher peak export rate to more than offset the likely higher consumption during rest of day for maths to work. Surely batteries would only magnify what I can shift between non-peak import and peak export, thus improving overall economics?
I would never have them I think they look ugly and harm the look of a house . Terrible things I know so many people where the roof has been knackered long term after these fitted and new roof required
@@UpsideDownFork fine entitled to my opinion were fitted on mine which was a one off build . Had them removed. The house is so well insulted I pay very little on Gas and Electric for such a large house. Being in a conservation area who in there right mind wants those on a roof
No waffle, no intro...just straight into it, both barrels 😂. The performance from the Northish facing panels will be causing many people to reconsider conventional wisdom. It was only after fitting ours to our Southish facing roof that I understood the defuser effect of the clouds. We get greater generation in the early evening on a cloudy day than when it's sunny and the light has moved off the panels. Unfortunately, fitting panels to our north facing roof would require upgrading Inverter and associated wiring, so not a cheap addition. ....wish you'd been making videos 2 years ago! Hopefully will help someone who's starting their journey. Thanks for sharing.
Our pv have micro-inverters so easy to add as many or few as we like. Also, same 25 yr warranty as bi-facial panel (Rhia) which is what sold us, compared to lesser panel/inverter string at same cost!
I think you'd be best running them on a separate inverter or microinverter Keeping both systems separate from each other.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
@@UpsideDownFork Thanks for the video. Too late for me I made my decision but I had to fight it against many installers who kept telling me it is not worth the investment to have additional panels on the main roof NW. I finally managed to find one installer ok with that and after 4 months, I have similar results than you. Data don't lie. I am very glad I did my research and what was the turning point of my decision was 2 years ago now when I found out about software modelling the solar generation. so I simulated different location and even a west facing wall generate a fair bit. Good work Richard
@@NacNacMOTT Same story here. Once I got into modelling with PVGIS and OpenSolar there was no turning back!
Being in the south and sunny Southampton, with the brighter cloud cover, will make a big difference to viability of north facing panels. You are also in the higher COP zone for heat pumps for the economics of them. Also the kW/£ ratio for solar panels has increased greatly lately making them more economical. You don't necessarily need a big battery, just enough to get through the peak period and maybe to midnight when cheaper rates kick in.
Thanks for the video.
Exactly regarding battery, our 10kw manages to cover daytime needs currently even with HP (don’t expect to in Winter) recharge as needed in cheap evening rate 23:30-5:30. That’ll cover rest of year but Winter, so 7.5p is what we pay 90%+ during this time for grid power. Solar free of course!
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Great video/data again Mr Waffle:-) I have 2 panels on my NW roof and I compare output regularly to our 14 on SE. Since installation (mid Sept 23) they produced just under 70% of the highest producing SE panels. Yesterday it was 96%, later afternoon sun . They are bi-facial, micro-inverters & draw energy well despite trees around property. However, I’m comparing to individual panels which are the same. I am surprised at results - your video prompted my interest further - I now would not hesitate to expand NW roof panels. PS get a battery for sure, especially to help offset power with HP. I would definitely recommend Alpha ESS home battery (Heatable) good value, LFP & superb app (Enphase app/service is crap). We have 10kw it can expand modular to 40, but 15kw would charge overnight during 6hr cheap rate 7.5p Octopus. You can’t reasonably cover HP Winter use as you know but this amount works for house most of the year for us. Use more free solar, offset cheap power when expensive.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for real data. I've decided (despite what I wrote previously) to add a battery to my new system (to be installed next week). I think that Octopus Agile and load shifting is best financially for me. I'm paying a company to do the main roof, and battery, of my house but I'll be doing my garage roofs myself.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
You have planned your system very well.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
The necessity of optimizers is a contentious topic. Some folks think the bypass diodes are enough. Would they add time to the return on investment? Anyway, looking forward to our first summer since the installation to see what the system can really do! For March, we managed 576kwh from our 10kw SolarEdge system. Consumed 330kwh. So far so good 🌞
Our micro-inverters on Rhia panels (Heatable have good utube video about them) work well, low light & shading from trees surrounding property. Also, 25yr warranty match panels, easy to increase/change as modular - no string - really do well in defused light, cloudy.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Love the content! keep it coming.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Seen a video from someone who installed batteries, as well as controlling when he exports also imports from grid effectively trading electricity and making profit - my south side is in tree cover, hence no solar as yet, although considering roof changes to make this work in the future - but agree that light level on north side still is worth considering
We have 2PV systems, one to south one to north. The south was installed 14years ago and is 25% larger. The north system is just 2 years old and smaller, but as the south system produces 15000kw/h the north system produces whopping 11000kw/h . But now to the real kicker. While the south system costs 70000€ back then. The new north system costs WITH 10kw battery just 25000€.
Thanks for the info, i'd be interested to know your actual compass angle (deg from north which is at 0deg) your NW roof faces?
Full details on my other video here : th-cam.com/video/DljzuBlDxZI/w-d-xo.html
It's almost perfectly NW at 312 degrees.
How long did it take for Octopus to set up your SEG payments from install?
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Octopus incorrectly adds 5% tax to the export amount. I've noticed this on our export too.
Just checked mine, it does appear this is the case, some ones made a boo boo in the calcs. Its only recently that it started showing £'s for me on Flux.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Ive just discovered your videos, I had sunsynk 5.6kwh spread across 3 aspects and 2x 5.3kw batteries fitted in January. I have also switched to Octopus and now looking to have an ASHP to replace my back boiler. I find Sunsynks way of calculating the financial return to be a little over the top, according to the app i've already had 9% return on investment! Its not as good as that but my total electric bill from 10/1/24 to today so far has been less than £20 which includes the period before the seg was setup and a 5 day period when the system broke down due to an isolator burning out. Where did you get your spreadsheets to do your comparisons from? I have my own which include taking the readings from the generation meter but I don't know how useful this is proving to be. Great content.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for your videos.... really has sorted my head on the optimisers or not question
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Re the inverter reading slightly pessimistic in comparison to your meter. I was told from an inverter engineer that this was deliberate. Meters will never agree 100% and if it was reversed and the inverter meter showed a slightly higher reading than the consumption meter, there would be no end of calls to the technical assistance so now people feel good that their generation is a tad higher than expected and nobody complains.
This was great video particularly as I'm also considering a sunsynk system on Se/NW roof. Who did you select for your installer?
Here's the whole installation:
th-cam.com/video/Sdc7v8G3lnU/w-d-xo.html
You're right about the savings figures, particularly coal. Doesn't seem relevant in the UK
Last coal plant in UK closes September. 75% grid power recently from wind!
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
I asked for a design that produced 10 kW and was initially surprised that meant 30% of the panels were north-facing. The biggest downside is snow, which takes longer to melt on that section. In other seasons those panels stay cooler so more efficient. Production swings from 9% of my total solar in December to 30% in June. Over a year, it's worth it, it's just those winter days when you want to see just one more kilowatt.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Exported 292 in March but still on Octopus Go.
Even on Flux wouldn't have got close to those earnings.
You on the tracker yes?
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Forgive me I don’t remember you total solar panel setup (north/south)?
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Just a thought, North West is very different to North facing. Other variance will be the angle of the roof as well as the age of panels. Good results and I tthink any solar is worth having.
Yes, very important points. The angle is 30 degrees on our roof. A steeper pitch roof would yield less with the NW orientation.
The opinion of all solar installers I spoke with was don't bother with anything past 270 degrees, i.e. directly west facing.
I hope my dataset over the next year will disprove that rule of thumb and show that sheer surface area can overcome suboptimal orientation.
Fresh data coming in the morning 👍
Ithink you said that you had optimisers installed. Is this one per panel? The optimised figures seemed to show little benefit. Are they worth the additional cost.
Thanks for all the info.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
A battery would allow you to get ultra low cost - particularly if you have an EV. Intelligent is down at 7.5p overnight, my average cost (including the SC) last year was 7.51p which is absurd.
This year I’m already at a similar rate and we haven’t even had we’ve not hit summer generation yet…
My March SSE panel average in Stratford-upon-Avon was 32kWh compared to your 33kWh 👍🏻
Battery tech very interesting, I went with an internal location as cells are very temperature sensitive from experience.
LFP desirable but not offered by SolarEdge 🤨
Vehicle to grid with LFP my aim ⚡️
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
CT clamps are about 5% inaccurate, even my Victron Quattro reads about 5% over on import and export values compared to my Smart Meter. I have a Bright / Glow IHD and this allows Home Assistant to read the smart meter.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
Surely your data on a SE/NE axis confirms the 50% idea for a due North facing roof? An exact alignment should give 87.5% and 62.5% compared to a pure S/N axis. All other things being equal that is. I speak from a position of complete ignorance on this subject though. I have a SE/NW axis and chase the sun too but as a gardener.
My Sunsynk is consistently optimistic at the moment. SunSynk's CT Clamps don't seem to be the most accurate for some reason.
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
What's really made north oriented PVs sensible is PVs dropping 97% in cost between 1991 and 2021. And PVs are still dropping in price.
If you had a directly south facing array then your Jan generation would have been higher than the forecast.
You might have missed the part of the video where I explain that the system was only commissioned on 27th January. Giving us just 5 days of generation in that month.
The orientation has little to do with the Jan generation.
Not enough waffle! 😂
Thanks for commenting! I've responded in this new video th-cam.com/video/FcU8rHDgDI0/w-d-xo.html
The displaced CO2 calculations are notoriously hand-wavey. Lots of assumptions, like what energy source you would have displaced had your panels not exported.
Battery vs using grid as a battery. If the grid pays you for electricity you make it is probably better to buy more solar panels instead of a expensive battery..
Yes, you're right. But only up to the export limit set by your DNO.
Mine is 6.5kW export limited so any more panels would result in clipping during the summer months but may make up for it through extra generation in the winter.
Careful calculation is needed.
Only if my import rate is competitive compared to my export rate though, right? Even on say Octopus Flux I would need the higher peak export rate to more than offset the likely higher consumption during rest of day for maths to work. Surely batteries would only magnify what I can shift between non-peak import and peak export, thus improving overall economics?
I would never have them I think they look ugly and harm the look of a house . Terrible things I know so many people where the roof has been knackered long term after these fitted and new roof required
🤣 I'll let my usual commentors go to work on you...
Good luck!
@@UpsideDownFork fine entitled to my opinion were fitted on mine which was a one off build . Had them removed. The house is so well insulted I pay very little on Gas and Electric for such a large house. Being in a conservation area who in there right mind wants those on a roof
@@Andrew.-.- Why do people have such lovely looking houses and then park hideous SUVs in front of them?