Installing Headers without Gaskets WTF ??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
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Installing headers without using gaskets ? that was something I have never heard of before. The instructions call for a using a high temperature gasket maker to seal the surface when installing the headers. This seemed odd but for the Ls Swap in my Jeep TJ this is what was required. Will headers without gaskets cause any issues will soon find out
I don't use a gasket on my Ford 200 six eBay header. I used high temp orange slicone. The header bolts stay tight without a gasket. The header has zero exhaust leaks.
In my boat I had to remove the right exhaust manifold. I used red high temp RTV instead of the original steel gasket. After some years I removed the engine to rebuild it. The hull was dirty on the left but clean under the right side with RTV. I will use it on both sides for the future.
That permatex silicone has a one wait time before torque then a twenty four hour cure time at 70 degrees Fahrenheit
Yeh, we see he read everything but that. Too bad the seal won't be a full force one for imperfections in mounting platforms.
hello. will it be hard to remove if youre planning to change the exhaust in the future?
@@plopplop5833 Nah, it scrapes off easily.
I dont think the 24 hour times would be compromised if you used it within say 2-4 hours of drying. But i believe the 24 hour time is to seal it for all conditions. Like it might help dry it faster if you could heat it up a little and cool it off fast but i honestly think thats their insurance for people that might try to say it didnt work. Well did you wait 24 hours before you tried to test it? No most people probably not, but i dont think its spot on 24 hours done. Cause if you put it on in cold weather it comes out hard and doesnt want to stick and i think it would probably dry up in 12 hours not for sure but not everyone has that cold of weather.
one what? One minute? One hour?
My old small block Chevy Hooker headers would always come loose after a few hundred miles, it seemed.
They were a bitch to tighten down too because the tube was positioned right over the bolt hole. That is some interesting instructions in using silicone for gasket. I'm very curious how the silicone holds up. With my luck, if it's rated 1800 degrees, my exhaust would come out at 1801 and it would turn to shit. lol
Yeah I've heard of race car guys using silicone on the headers. I figured it didn't matter because they are pulling them off pretty frequently. I wonder how long it holds up an a daily that sees a lot of miles
Works great. Small.block chevy exhaust manifolds came stock with no gasket and no sealer. Facts. Two machined surfaces need no gasket.
I'm about to put the header on my Esprit and saw Rob Dahm using this stuff while doing the exhaust on his Rx7.
Glad you showed the temp rage, 600 degrees probably won't cut it for me. The laser thermometer showed my manifold at 600 degrees during normal operation. I imagine the spikes while driving hard are going way higher.
I cant verify this because i didnt do it myself but i have seen people use this stuff on turbo headers,I'm assuming those things get ultra hot and people love this permatex for that
@@dntlsssaw and happened is 2 different things. 1000-1200 degrees is operating under load on your avg diesel. I dont think they are running rtv.
This stuff works. Before I mate my surfaces together to see how they seal together. Using a light to see the gap, if any, before applying sealant. Some surfaces mate so well, what I try to achieve. That they dont need quite so much for a good seal. Think what you're doing. Good flush mating surfaces, lots of sealant equals to lots off squeeze out. Not good.
I remember installing my equal length shorty headers on my 302 and what a PITA!
Using the method show in this video applies only to Sanderson Headers. I personally have had experience with the Sanderson’s, I have them on my truck. I followed there instructions to the letter. ( Unlike this gentleman it is most important to let the RTV set overnight ) and have had zero issues or leaks in the year since!
The one thing I will say, I also questioned there recommendation for using the black RTV 82180, so much so I called them and expressed my concern. The technician explained to me that the temperature where the exhaust flange meets the cylinder head does not exceed the temperature range of the Black RTV 82180. So I said to myself, Sanderson’s R&D Department surely tested the RTV Black 82180 before printing the recommendation to use it in black and white! After that thought, I then took myself and my doubts to my garage, started the install, and in the words of Paul Harvey “ Now you know, the rest of the story”
I have the same concern. The ultra black rtv is not made for headers, the red stuff is. Why not just use the red? Certainly not all cylinder heads are the same so how can the technician make that claim? Also, the permatex guys say that waiting for the rtv to set overnight is the old way of doing this according to their older formulas. The new permatex formulas do not require you to wait for the silicon to skin over. I just want to do things right the first time so whom do I trust?
I used this on an ATV carb manifold engine side. I put wayy too much lol. I had a feeling that I did so and didnt want to take any chances with it squeezing out into the intake then into the engine. Took it apart and sure enough I had a lot of it ooozed out inside the intake manifold. Used much less the second time and its been holding up fine for the last 3 years!
I have heard a lot of good things about this stuff, I'm actually about to use it on some slipjoints on a Basanni exhaust,if some people use it at the head where it gets hotter than hell im sure it will work on a slipjoint.
I used to use MLS gaskets, now I only use this. Never had a leak Again.
Next time, use a couple of studs to guide the headers on. I do that when pulling and installing trans, and installing intake. Makes the job easy and accurate.
Yup
You are spot on,I started doing that a few years ago and wont install anything without them, i made me studs for everything, lower intake, upper intake, oil pan, headers, water pump you name it,lol, i have stud's for it.
How did that ultra copper gasket maker work on on those headers?
Read the instructions better next time. Hand tighten bolts while wet .Wait 1hour. Then torque your bolts from center to outer. Wait 24 hours before starting . Another rookie video on how not to do it.
DIRECTIONS:
For best results, clean and dry all surfaces with a residue-free solvent, such as Permatex® Brake & Parts Cleaner.
Cut nozzle to desired bead size gaskets are best formed using a 1/16″ to 1/4″ bead.
Apply a continuous and even bead of silicone to one surface, surrounding all bolt holes. Remove excess with knife at once. Assemble parts immediately. Do not squeeze out silicone by over tightening bolts. Re-torque will not be necessary.
Silicone dries in 1 hour, and fully cures in 24 hours, at 70˚F (21˚C) - 50% relative humidity. Allow more time in cold weather.
Replace cap after use. Clean hands with dry cloth or Permatex® Fast Orange® Hand Cleaner. Clean tools with non-flammable cleaning fluid.
instructions from the manufacturer of the product is very clear........... I could care less what the header instructions say
@@TestDontguess LOL another rookie troll thinks it knows how better to do things. Great video!
Arnold Rimmer ...it is for an inanimate object. He or she would be the correct personal pronoun for an animate subject.
@@ronanrogers4127 Trolls might as well be considered inanimate objects
Today, Permatex has 750 degrees fahrenheit red silicone gasket maker which they explicitly recommend for exhaust manifold headers on their website's video.
Did you wait the prescribed 1 hour between finger tight and torque loading ? it appears you didn't on the video
Seems like it's going to be messy when you or if you take the headers off for any kind of maintenance. I don't think it's a benefit to use gasket maker. multilayer metal gaskets seem the best. That's the reason I haven't pulled the trigger on sanderson headers.
Any updates..did it work?
You missed a few things here....1) Clean all surfaces with brake cleaner 2) apply bead with caulk gun (only way) 3) MUST dry 24 hours at room temp 4) Use one or two studs during install
Sanderson instructions state to let it dry then attach to engine. Seems odd but ok
Let dry overnight...?
I think it's hard to be the factory GM multi layer gasket with manifolds or headers.
I really don''t know how gasket maker would be better then a gasket....I guess you will tell us how it goes.
Gasket maker for non flat surface, gasket only better for flat surface, i think so
Ultra grey is where it's at. As high temp as copper but more rigid and works absolute wonders
I'm thinking optimum grey 15% more flexible.
No, ultra grey is only 500f
I'v got a tube of grey that's rated to 750f
We’ll see on this!
is it a good idea to use this along with the gasket because with the gasket alone i’m getting a nasty ticking sound so i just want to add some of this stuff on top of the gasket
Using the method show in this video applies only to Sanderson Headers. I personally have experience with the Sandersons. I have them on my truck, followed there instructions to the letter and have had zero issues or leaks in the year since!
The one thing I will say, I also questioned there recommendation for using the black RTV 82180, so much so I called them and expressed my concern. The technician explained to me that the temperature where the exhaust flange meets the cylinder head does not exceed the temperature range of the Black RTV 82180. So I said to myself, Sanderson’s R&D Department surely tested the RTV Black before printing the recommendation in black and white! After that thought, I then took myself and my doubts to my garage, started the install, and in the words of Paul Harvey “ Now you know, the rest of the story”
I've blown 4 header gaskets on my truck. I'm looking for any kind of solution because clearly gaskets aren't working
Remflex. They will never blow out. I use them for all my turbo applications and great if your header flanges aren't perfectly flat.
Definitely Remflex. They made one specifically for my vehicle. But tbh, I later found out, it wasn't my gaskets that were blowing out, but it was my bolts slightly backing out causing my gaskets to burn out
does anyone know why they recommend this gasket maker when it says 700 degrees temp of exhaust is greater than 1000 degrees and i cant get a good answer
Dissipation of heat and thermal displacement. This stuff is on 2 of my motors and exhaust mufflers that had no gasket and it works great, just follow directions to a T
it was celsius my bad
I have a tube in my hand and it says 700°F (371°C).
But I have exactly the same question. I'm guessing it is because the sealant is actually capable of withstanding higher temperatures, it is not directly in the path of the exhaust gases, and it is not exposed to oxygen.
I'm going to stick with my assumptions until a chemist can provide me a real answer.
LOL SPRING WASHERS ON HOT HEADER PLATES. wtf
The bigger the glob the better the job.
But why? Too thick of a bead and this crap squeezes out into your ports => causing turbulence. A mess to clean up if you have to take the headers off. I use remflex gaskets, they come off clean and you can reuse them.
yep, my thoughts exactly
So does it work?
I was wondering what permatex gasket maker would work. I had a stud break on my accord so I was looking for a quick fix thank you.
That would not be a fix........
@@TestDontguess It's been a year, did that stuff seal your headers?
I understand this now because the sealant must cure before installation. This is why it won't smear when installing the header. I didn't know this until I read your instruction sheet just now. It all makes sense but is a rubber silicone just as tough as a metal/paper gasket???
Not as tough but just as reliable if you follow the directsion. Only use it where it is stated. Do not apply to anything that is asking for fabricated gaskets. If you’re in a pinch you can but it most likely won’t last long.
Looks like you were supposed to let the gasket maker dry overnight before installing the headers. No?
I was wondering the same thing
metoo
@@bebom927 If you let it dry before assembling you would not have a flat surface as the silicone gasket would be cured irregularly preventing even torque. Torque down immediately and allow to cure afterwards. Gasket sealant it is only to fill irregular surface and pitting and is not a replacement for a gasket as many people seem to think!
im reading from the sanderson headers brochure which comes with the new headers..."apply a 1/8 inch thick bead of silicone to the raised portion of the header flange. let silicone dry (preferably overnight) we recommend permate4x PX82180 ultra black silicone " next step "install bolts at either end finger tight install remaining bolts etc etc
@@bebom927 I don't think you should be allowing gasket seal to cure overnight then torque up your bolts. It states not to retorque after applying so the instructions contridicate the procedure. Are those instructions numbered in order or just basic statements about how to use it ?
does it requiere to put this type of seal or with the original will do ?? with out using any seal
You can’t use that copper stuff on your aluminum head with steel manifolds it sets up a real corrosion problem it will tear your heads up !,,
That's been proven to be something that would take eons to happen, you might be in the ground by the time the heads are corroded.
How did the silicone past hold up, any leaks?
I used it on mine for about a year and it lasted perfectly vs crush style gaskets.
Gaskits are for poocies, reel mehkanicks bolt everything on raw.
Boostang lmaooo
Boltz, schmoltz! Hold those headers on wit yer BEAR HANDZ BRO!
Hey man, you might have mentioned this in one of your videos, but what did you do for the exhaust piping, cats, mufflers, etc?
I wonder how long they recommend for curing before you can fire an engine up with just gasket maker? The headers turned out bitchen!
Kevin Murphy usually 24 hours on a lot of that stuff for best case situation
24 hours for sure with permatex.
Instructions say 24 hour cure time.
so what's your opinion, this stuff works well for exhaust manifolds!!??
What type of Torque wrench?
Must be the Advanced Auto Parts special for $40
That is beautiful. My "fuck me" lights on my 4Runner are lit up like a Christmas tree and it's running rough as shit. Probably time for new fuel injectors.
you didnt wait the recommended 24 hours why
I mean the Permatex isn't really going to move. It will only get heated up and I believe the heat would harden it up. Not saying you should do this.
@@psychiz5313 No it will fuck it up if it doesnt vulcanize properly. Thats why their black one is marketed for torque and go. This orange silicone copper one clearly says let it sit in room temp for 24 hours or more.
you cant read very good eh! lol , let dry , preferable over night!!!! lol
You don't follow directions do you????
bro you used enought anti seize on one bolt to do all of them
Exactly what I was thinking... why so much? Good grief that much is not required. Lol
Too much is just enough :D
WRONG! Always start from the center 2 bolts first snugging them up and work you way out each side, then repeat the proccess several times before torking from center out... IT"S wanna be guys like you that teach the WRONG WAY to do things!!!
He torqued them perfectly fine goof
well you're just as stupid as him then "GOOF"
That will last about 10 minutes...