Living In Paradise? What People Wont Tell You About Hawaii
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2024
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Most people don't think about these things when buying ocean-front property.
How about people who say "I'll rent for a year and then I'll buy," and then a year passes... how many actually end up buying?
How does inflation & appreciation affect the 2024 Hawaii real estate market?
Is H1 traffic really THAT bad?
We dive into these juicy topics and more in this video.
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Derek Okahashi
RS-82017
Licensed In Hawaii
Recently got into the market in Hawaii. $3,500 mortgage for every 400k. Most homes in Hawaii are 1 million for a 3bd 2ba. Rent on an equal property is $3,000-$3,500 a month. Buying is much more expensive than renting but owning in Hawaii will build equity at an “almost” guaranteed 10x over the 30 years. Sit down and talk to core team, they are honest and will hold your hand, no matter how long it takes for to buy.
That seems cheap to rent in Hawaii. In Los Angeles a 3bd 2ba would run you $4500. at least.
If you buy then sell you can’t leave the state for like a year or you will be hit with a big-ass fee for it - could be over $100k if you have a decent ROI - BE WARNED!
Hawaii is paradise in the exact same way Disneyland makes your dreams come true😑
Can you actually own in Hawaii? I thought without bloodline you can only get a 99 year ownership before it reverts to the state
@@ronoconnor8971 That would be Mexico
The best time to buy in Hawaii was 89 years ago
You're probably exaggerating for effect, but when we moved to Hawaii in 1996 the housing market was bad. We moved to a new neighborhood in Kapolei and at least two of the homes on our small street sat empty for more than a year before somebody moved into them.
My grandfather was in the US Navy (1898-1904) Spanish-American War & visited Hawaii in 1900,
when the last Queen was still alive! It's too bad that he didn't buy some property then! Ha Ha! p.s.
I'm 78 & have visited Hawaii three times, i.e. 1979, 1991 & 2003 & can't believe how much it's grown!
I knew a kid in high school whose dad blew all their money on two plane tickets to Hawaii, believing that once they got there they could just "live on the beach". He said being homeless there was horrible (as I suspect it is anywhere) and after a couple of years they finally got two tickets back to the mainland.
I always said when I lived in Hawaii… That the best thing about living in Hawaii was telling people that you live in Hawaii. 😉🤙🏻 I also lived ocean front in Kaneohe. The rust on my appliances and vehicles was definitely a “Con”.
My first visit to Hawaii I thought I wanted to move there. But upon my first visit to a grocery store, sticker shock arrived. Everything was anywhere between 30-60% higher depending on what you wanted. So folks who don't also incorporate this weekly needed cost into their budgets are going to be woefully surprised. I still love it there, but now I am happy just visiting every few years for a couple of weeks.
Great point, so many people have heard of how expensive Hawaii is, but it doesn't really hit them because they are just visiting. It was the same when I visited Jamaica years ago, everything was way more expensive than in the US.
My former in-laws sold their Bay Area home and moved to Hawaii. They didn't have that much equity in their home, but thought they had enough to get a house on Maui. They rented a shoebox apartment, saying they would buy a house in a year. The year became 2, became 3. Then former father-in-law had health problems. He passed away and former mother-in-law moved back to the Bay Area and moved in with my former brother-in-law. I knew when I saw the tiny apartment that they would never end up buying. You confirmed why.
Hawaii is a vacation not to live there.
I lived a very good lifestyle on the big island of Hawaii for 23 years. Ocean front very successful, very blessed. Loved it, but decided retirement will be better in Florida, Naples area and honestly I could not be happier, so much better. As expensive as Naples Florida is, it’s still light years cheaper than Hawaii. Hawaii taxes everything and sadly you get nothing for your tax dollars. It all goes somewhere, but not to the residents and native people, and certainly not the infrastructure.
Government in Hawaii is a horrible joke.
Tax and spend state. Aloha and Mahalo Hawaii, glad I experienced it, just so I could appreciate better. 🤙
Democrats cause high taxes, harmful policies and harmful legislation that cause high prices, high costs. Democrats are the High Cost Party and take that to the bank. Biden promised higher taxes if he wins and that is a fact that Biden had said several times!
Welcome to FL, I'm in Orlando and travel around the state for work, so I get to Naples every now and then. But, I see Hawaii as you do ..even though I have only visited numerous times. Love the Big Island, the ranches and more country style. Wishing you the best living here in FL, it's not North Shore, but you can still hang loose... 🤙 (sorry, that's the closest emoji they had).
I grew up in London, moved to NZ for my work, discovered Kailua Oahu and decided that’s my place. Followed condo market for 30 years and finally bought a 2bd condo in 2015. Immediately found a tenant to share, the rent covers the maintenance fee. The property tax is low. I don’t need or own a car, because everything you need is walking distance in Kailua. You don’t need a family cos you make friends on the beach which is 10 mins by bike. I have a very different story from this video. Ps. I managed to get US per res so all is very cool.
I grew up in Haiku, Maui. I lived in Maui until I retired and moved to Oregon and then Virginia.
Hawaii has cars that are dirty everyday. Here, if its not pollen season, our cars just don't get that dirty.
I left when I had to retire due to disability and my broken down house I owned in Kahului had a mortgage over $500k.
Disability led to foreclosure and bankruptcy.
Bank wouldn't work with me and instead sold that broken down home for $350k to a Filipino family that combine income and could afford it. It was over $600k at on time when I looked back.
Now that Lahaina burned down, most people I grew up with left or got caught up in drugs and many died, there isn't much to come home to Maui anymore.
I do have family, but I prefer the freedom of Virginia and have since gotten my myself up above 750 credit score, bought 1.6 acres and raise chickens, turkeys, geese and ducks.
I love the place and am able to go on road trips.
I could go on and on about how Hawaii has changed for the worst and has been taken over by developers and speculators, but I'm going to go do some yard work and enjoy the beautiful weather here today.
On Oahu, I saw a lot of homes that looked right out of Compton - chain link fence, pit bulls, junk cars, and hoarding. I’m not paying over a million to live in a rat’s nest. If you choose to buy a condo, you get stuck with sketchy land leasing problems and huge HOA fees, not to mention giant bills to keep the a/c running. Good luck !!!!!
I saw that, too. There is also a real armpit neighborhood around the Maui airport.
Loud neighbors with loud dogs and ten cars are the local people.
Thanks for being so real. I’m also a cancer survivor. It’s my dream to be a homeowner in Hawaii 🤙
Currently recovering from surgery and radiation, you may not get the healthcare you are used to. When you do find the dr who is the right fit, they leave, move, quit. Over and over. You may have to island hop to appointments. Flights and hotels will be your expense. Check on that before you give up your current team.
@@penniewyatt9391 thank you for the insight. Fortunately (maybe not the right word to choose) I went through my ordeal here in Texas 2 years ago. I hope all of this is now behind me. Wishing you a speedy recovery 💪
@@J3ffdrums thanks. If you have mainland family ties, you could always go back and stay with them for a few months if need be. There is sufficient testing and treatment, to get by, but no ‘state of the art’ anything on Kauai.
Wish I could get back to HI. I miss it every day.
I had friends on the crew shooting Hawaii 5-0. My joke for them was that you NEVER saw the boys stuck in traffic on H-1. I wanted to know where all these backroads were they took from one side of the island to the other!
🤣🤣🤣 tell us when you find em
Brah keepin it real🤙Like the river metaphor Derek. Mahalo
If you could do a video on visiting Hawaii, I’d love that , I’m hoping to visit-in the next year, I’ve been trying to get there for 20 years, being a responsible couple we wanted to pay off our home and raise our son first, then his college, now it’s our time.😊
I have lived in Hawaii for years now, and I love your videos!
Good information. Thank you.
Very insightful stuff, appreciate all the great info. We visit every year, and when we retire in 8-10 years we’d love to live there at least a couple months out of the year.
The river metaphor was dope 🤙
Don't forget to check for location of the house on the lot, and the street. Just on the opposite side of the street make a big difference in good living or paying for AC on all the time. (No trade wind)
Great presentation thanks. You make many good points. One that a lot of people don't think about until they're confronted with it is the wind. My wife and I are from Oahu, and at one point we lived in Kaaawa/Hau'ula on the beach. It was great, but there's a reason they call it the "Windward Side". The wind is usually direct onshore and it will wear you down. Also, the windward side weather is usually cloudy because of the proximity of the Koolau mountains. I actually preferred living in town on the leeward side as the trades didn't bother me unless they were really blowing. Also, as much as I loved surfing Crouch, my home spots were in MBay (used to surf big NShore but those days are over).
Appreciate the Channel. Video made me nostalgic - 8:00 see my old condo in the Salt Lake neighborhood - Century West. I left in 95 and when I visit, everyone says .... "Those were the good old days" - which they were when you look at the Traffic, lack of parking and Cost of Living. Your grocery prices are much higher than the Mainland. I feel for the old Mom & Pops businesses - their overhead is so much higher than before.
I feel for your young adults Starting Out. Life in Paradise is getting too expensive. You got to be super smart and lucky with your money to get housing you can afford and hope you got a good paying job paying $100K minimum.
Thank you for this realistic video about the paradise.
Great video!!
Mahalo!
A good friend moved to Oahu 20 years ago. He loves it. I went to visit him 5 or 6 times. Generally speaking, Oahu is a ghetto.
I think one important thing you missed is pest. Roaches, Ants, and termites. I hate ants in my kitchen. I really enjoy your videos, btw. Keep it up.
Mahalo for the comment!! You’re right. It’s mentioned several times in other videos, but could’ve made another appearance here.
oooh and the centipedes!
That's right! I forgot.
Uku's and bedbugs 😬
Keep your kitchen clean den, no ants.
That salt spray goes up mauka for a few blocks when the surf is big. Even Kona has bad traffic now. I live 3 miles from where I surf. In the morning before sunrise, it may be an 8-minute drive. Coming home can be 30 - 40 and you idle the entire way. I would add don't buy next to a house with a pool. Especially if it's a vacation rental. Living next to smokers sucks. Like the video. I might add don't move here to change Hawaii. I moved to the Big Island in 91 for what it was. Not what I thought it should be.
I just subscribed. I like your no nonsense straight talk. It's what I want to hear.
Mahalo. We keep it real and real skilled 😆🤙🏽
Thank you. Informative and very well presented. Mahalo. 🌈
Great video bro🤙🏾
For ocean front property, that is true even here in California. We have cliffs that erode in bad weather and floods are a problem along with fires. Every place, even ‘paradise’ has its downsides. People routinely ruin paradise by wanting to take with them or build everything they had in their non-paradise location!
I was stationed at Schofield 97-2000, and lived in Mililani a while. I was searching for beachfront till I saw the waves wash over the roads a few times on North shore (washed out the road completely in like 2000). Then I was fine making the short drive for my surfing 😂
Excellent information, thank you!
Very enlightening video, thank you.
Hey I’ll be moving to Hawaii in September, I seen your ad on indeed for a photo/video person. Would love to work with you guys in September. Love watching your videos!
I remember sleeping over a friend's house right on the beach. You wake up with a layer of salt. That layer is hard to remove from electronics and cars.
Commission breath. That's a good one!
No commission breath!
I love your candour, A-LOT!
Thanks for video. I sometimes need my fix of Hi world. Was stationed at KBay and for years I could move back. But videos and TV shows help me so much.
Mahalo for watching
I love these videos
Haha! Yeah, all so true. I never bought real estate when I was in Hawaii. A decade ago, I rented a 1,000-square foot guest house from a wonderful co-worker and her husband for a low $1K a month in Pauoa. I couldn’t save enough to buy property but I was able to invest in other assets that have since gone up in value.
I live in Ewa, about a mile from the ocean. 12 years and dont have half the problems he mentions
Derek, great comment about how Mother Nature can erode homes that are near the ocean. It’s not just the outdoor fixtures, it’s the roof, it’s the windows, getting sandblasted at times. It’s part of the price you pay to live next to the ocean.
Great video. You did good here Derek.
Best wishes from Oregon, my friend,
Larry
Thanks for sharing!
Recently been involved in a family estate issue where a house on Oahu was sold. Coming from the rural mainland myself, and having to visit Hawaii a few times as part of the process... you forgot the major thing that will give many shock. The cost of living difference.
From my rural mainland (low cost of living) perspective, everything in Hawaii was 150% to 200% (on average) of my expected prices in stores, at restaurants, etc. Everything. Plan for this if you intend to move to "paradise". It costs a lot, daily.
Ocean view homes will be worth more than ocean front in the future. Our dream home is on the cliffs of Diamond Head or Black Point. Elevated enough at 50-100 feet so as not to be in mother nature's way but close enough where you can still smell and hear the ocean. And make out details in the waves and a surfer's shaka. One day...one day.
Was literally there today with a client!!
Great vid and appreciate the honesty. Loved the river analogy. We’re looking at the big island and hope to fulfill that dream one day after my parents pass. Mahalo brotha.
Read my post on the Big Island before you make that decision. It’s must worse then my post. It’s up towards the top.
@@1113caligrl THANK YOU for making me aware.
I thought Honolulu was LA with a crowded beach. But back in 79 Kawaii was beautiful with only two stoplights on the island and no hotel higher than three stories
I appreciate your honesty! You are spot-on about all of your topics! Mahalo for your transparency.
Lived at trongs on the beach loved it
Love the River analogy! Well said brother!
I grew up on Oahu, but live on the mainland now. Being able to live on several acres has spolied me to a point I cannot move back and retire because there's no space and privacy in Hawaii. Living on the islands exposes you to all of everything all the time.
How about big island?
@@movingtohawaii Maybe. Be sure of the surrounding property and what it's used for.
What do you mean by all of everything?
@@DewTime Since lots are often small, your neighbors are often right on top of you, and everything they are doing, you are experiencing. Smoking marijuana, cock fighting, their domestic squabbles, all the meals they are cooking, every time they decide to shoot off fireworks for no good reason, frequent karaoke sessions outside, working on their automobiles, racing their cars or motorbikes up and down the street, their pets running all over the neighborhood unchecked, their dogs barking incessantly at absolutely nothing and everything, etc. etc. If you can think of it, you will experience it at some point. I would strongly suggest that before buying, you visit that neighborhood FREQUENTLY at different times of the day and on different days to try to get an idea what it will be like. I did that when I bought on Kauai, and I still had issues with dog barking that nearly drove me nuts until I got the police and Humane Society involved. And the stray cat problem is positively ridiculous. This is an ecological hot zone, and these idiots are allowing cats to roam around unchecked. It seriously angers me.
My sister lived close to the beach and always had damp linens. Bath towels were never dry and were musty. She washed and dried them then bagged them in spacebags
I lived on the Hamakua coast on the Big Island. Constantly battled with mold in closets. I couldn't have furniture up against a wall because mold would grow on the back of it. Also, the centipedes were ridiculous and neighbors with roosters that woke us up at the crack of dawn!!
Lol "shakas from da braddahs" I grew up in Hawaii during the 90s and I miss island life still to this day. I always love hearing pigeon... Go Mules!!!!
This is true both physically and metaphorically.
The first oops is mistaking Oahu for the Hawai'i experience. You are lucky to find that on the outer islands as well, Choose wisely and even then, the experience might not be for you. We are hardly a part of America and a completely different culture. Don't be on Oahu if SHTF either. It will be chaos in 3 days. Show respect and practice Kina'ole at every opportunity. Aloha.
Derek knows his stuff. His knowledge about finance, listen up. He's got em licked.
Thank you!
My brother and his wife upon retirement moved 3 years ago from the San Francisco Bay Area to Maui & bought a 3 bdrm home in a great community overlooking the Kaanapali golf course They love living there and have he wherewithal to travel back to Calif. often to visit family & friends. They are both healthy but I wonder if they’ll regret not being close to major medical services if their health takes a downward turn in the future.
MAHALO FOR THIS VIDEO. WE HOPE THIS TURNS OFF PEOPLE FROM MOVING HERE. DON'T MOVE HERE!
Great video! I hope to be reaching out to you and your team soon. Keep up the great videos! 😊 We soooooo appreciate your integrity and honesty. It speaks volumes of your business ethics!
Mahalo Derek! 🏠🌺
Mahalo!
I have lived in many parts of the US and have never experienced more property crime or disregard for quiet than here in Hawaii. I have seen mopeds chained to a tree be stripped for parts overnight. Friend has been robbed of his bike twice, while he is riding it. Stereos blasting regardless of whether it bothers others or not are a common thing. Street racing in Waikiki and vehicles with no mufflers is a norm. Angst against mainlanders is palpable. Then there are the trucks with train air horns. I have heard more explosions here than anywhere in my life. Its actually quite ridiculous behavior. Weather though is perfect.
We could make an entire video about guessing where you live. I’m going to go with Ewa Beach.
Shipping. The cost to ship things to the mainland or from the mainland can be so much more. One thing I didn't consider, but probably should have, is how many places dont even ship to Hawaii. You go shopping online and then you hit the dreaded "We only ship to the continental US."
Also, the time difference needs to be considered. If you're into any mainland sports teams you watch in the morning or afternoon instead of at night. If you trade stocks you gotta be up early in the morning when the market opens. Then, for daylight savings, you gotta adjust your time differences for everything because Hawaii doesn't do daylight savings.
All legitimate points 💯
Damn! that river analogy is golden!
You are right about all the thieving. They cut my catalytic converter…..WITH A SAWZALL……out and ransacked my piece of crap frontier!🤙makes me think twice about parking in those nice little beach front trailheads
Interesting what you said about security. I lived in Honolulu in Moilili, near Ala Moana Mall, and in Mililani for 26 years from 1969 to 1995. We almost always left our doors unlocked. Is it different now? I first visited Hawaii in 1957, staying at my Uncle's posh seashore home in Portlock. A bit different then.
Never had the urge to go to hawaii. I do like hawaii 5.o.
I recently visited Oahu. Kinda upset me that the locals seemed to be priced out of the real estate market.
That does suck! It’s possible though, just not easy
Please mention how ridiculous to get a permit to get anything done. It takes years and the more the Mayor gets involved the longer it takes.
😂 its like in canada dude its pathetic
I love dogs too.Just not other people's dogs
Good job discouraging the main-landers from moving there. I don’t blame you
One thing that I didn't know before moving to Hawaii is the number of homes that don't have AC and reliance on the tradewinds to cool the home. Then, if you do have AC, how much your energy bill is gonna be if you run it most of the day.
These are valid facts
I rented in Kapolei for 3 years, then bought home on Big Island, been here a total of 11 years. One negative you did not mention is homeless population. The climate is conducive to it and it is a problem. I now live across road from Ocean and yeah, outdoor rusting is real!
People move to Hawaii and complain about the rent. They call the locals greedy and feel entitled to pay a rent they feel is fair.
I stayed on the Big Island for 10 days in March, 2024. A few locals told me that at least 30% of the local population are on food stamps.
Way, way more than 30%. I would say more like 60-70. There is literally no food in the grocery stores at the beginning of the month. No meat, dairy, produce, etc.
it was always nerve racking for us. And on top of all of that, it took about 7-10 days to restock everything.
It was odd to see security guards at the bus stops :-(((((
@@TripsandFeasts1 It is not a safe place to live. We are so glad to be out of there. Oh the stories I could tell.
I like renting because maintenance is DONE for you, and there is always a handyman around to do something for a Senior Citizen.
I’m actually from Hawaii. Lived in Vegas for 23 years. I actually would love to move back but only way I’m doing it is if I’m only able to buy a home straight up. Can’t survive with a high mortgage.
That military housing looks pretty sweet.
My buddy has been on the big island 3 years now, says he cant wait to get back to Oregon.
Before you buy ocean front call your insurance agent.
I live within a 10 minute walk to Puget Sound. It’s crazy how much of a difference being 1/2 mile from the water makes from being right on the water. Much windier, colder and houses on the water occasionally fall in due to erosion. No thanks 😂
Typically Oahu point of view, each island is quite unique.....
EXPENSE is a relative term.
If it's worth it to you, it ain't "expensive"....
Damn I don’t even want to move but love the vid and honesty
I bought my house in Makakilo back in 2011 when I was stationed in Hickam AFB. I received orders for a remote duty to Kunsan AB Korea in 2014 (My family stayed here). I retired from the US Air Force in 2016 and returned to Oahu. IMHO, I think that was the best decision ever. Take advantage of the BAH while on active duty instead of trowing all that money away in rent. Mahalo for the video!
Bro, I am not military, but what you said about your BAH is gold. I have single guy neighbor in the military renting next to me. He has three new cars. Could have combined all of that to at least purchase a townhouse. If he did, he'd at least have some equity to take with him when he's done.
So true. Mainlander’s think we all have an ocean front view. It’s the paradise only for the rich.
You Are right. I would do anything to be there but I guess reality might be different
Accidents happen almost every day on H1! 😂😂 Fireworks go off every other day at the least where we live in Waipahu! A typical house you could buy for $250,000 on the mainland is almost $1,000,000 here. A two bedroom apartment that is decent will cost you $400,000 at the least here to buy. That is outside of Honolulu. It is ridiculously expensive here compared to the mainland. When they say it’s the price of paradise they mean it! 😂😂
I believe every word. I don’t know Hawaii but I live ocean front on the Gulf of Mexico. It’s not what people think. It’s dirty, windy, sandy, and humid all of the time. Everything rusts in record time. My appliances are pock marked. Have been flooded twice this year already. Waterfront House for SALE.
Where are you? Florida panhandle or..?
@@movingtohawaii I am in the Big Bend. 75 miles SE from Tallahassee. 20 miles outside of Perry, FL. There are 5 beach communities here on the coast. Best known is Keaton Beach. I live in the neighborhood adjacent to Keaton. I have a 180 degree view of the Gulf. My property has a seawall and a beach.
@@movingtohawaii and how could I forget the best sunsets in the western hemisphere no obstacles at all.
Most the most part, you are addressing problems people can run into Oahu, not the other islands. Other islands have their share of problems, but things there are not the same.
Mahu's everywhere
Luv our Mahus!
Gross
Used to be very rare. Back in the 70s on the Big Island anyway.
WOW! Great topic and all good points. I guess I’ll have to take my $8 million and look elsewhere.
I lived in Ewa beach in 1977. I thought it was a long commute to Pearl Harbor then.
I don’t mind the fireworks or noise 😂 I’m from Oakland hahaha
Never really had a thing about going to Hawaii and over the years hearing the downsides likely will never go.
Im going this yr in the fall but now their tap water is sketchy 😂 fk man hawaii is going down
Very mismanaged. I lived it. Left Maui 2 months ago.
All this is everyehere except biting centipedes. Still habe those centipede tho . Wr have flying roach here too
You get mold and mildew on everything. The red dirt stains everything. Traffic sucks!
Not doubting you, but I also can't think of a major urban area on the mainland where traffic isn't bad. At peak, it even gets backed up in some suburban neighborhoods where I live.
We just returned from Hilo a couple days ago. Our Daughter and her partner have built an "off grid - tiny home" on some acreage. It's in a lush rural area with a water catchment system for water, solar panels with a backup small generator for power. They recently added a small "guest house" for their visitors. They can see the ocean from their location although it is quite a few miles away. Many varieties of mature fruit trees line their property.
Security is a big issue. Thievery is common everywhere on the island. It is important to know your neighbors and look out for each other.
One, two, and three acre tracts can be found for $20k and up. Partially finished project homes come up for sale occasionally for under $100k. Humidity is high and rain comes and goes often. Insects are minimal from what I saw.
We thoroughly love to visit the area but aren't too interested in moving there at this point.
We visit for a few weeks per year and enjoy every minute of it.
Mahalo
Great shirt bro! Smart for getting the f^&k out of Cali...
🤙🏽
The price of paradise!
What's your opinion of the Big Island? Still very affordable. About twenty miles south of Hilo you can still buy a 3+2 new home on a quarter to a half acre for about $400,000. Let me know what you think, affordable, crime, seems to be more rural.
That was my understanding when we visited.
We lived for one year exactly where you want to move. Before you decide, read my post at the top of the thread. I will answer more questions if you have any.
Really think hard about it. 😩
Son moving with Navy soon....looking to rent. Do you show rentals?
I live in housing on the Pearl city peninsula and it's not bad and it's a lot quieter than in Pearl city itself
@@melaniewantsabeer243 , I will let him know. I think he is pretty set on living "on the economy" and has read much about the water contamination that has occurred in base housing and the Salt Flats.
My family was stationed on Oahu when I was five years old. We lived there (mostly at Barber's Point NAS) for three years. Then, my parents separated and my mom had to leave with us children for the mainland. I have missed Hawaii ever since. Actually, I've missed 1972 Hawaii and my childhood ever since, but what can be done about that? I want to go back so badly, but I'm afraid that I have no place there, especially as an adult. Or, maybe I should go to some other islands, like Yap or Fiji or Samoa or Tonga? I regret that I haven't been living in Hawaii, but I think I need to live on the mainland. I need a job, and I want to accomplish things. The islands are for when I want to disappear.