Hi, I am a ZD8 BRZ driver from Taiwan. Thank you for your efforts in this car series. I will also drive on the Taiwan circuit. It is easier to buy Japanese parts in Taiwan, so I will also refer to these corrections when purchasing parts. Sorry, my English grammar is not good, so I use GOOGLE Translate. I hope you can understand and I would like to express my sincere thanks to you.
appreciate you for taking the time to do these experiments. these finding are very reassuring. on my last track day i did also overfill by nearly a quart and kept the car under 230 while on a hot day at buttonwillow. car is equipped with the same JR cooler with shroud and the car didnt skip a beat and had no issues with the overfill. i am confident now that i can continue on with my track days and not have to worry about any crazy pressure drop issues as long as i take the necessary precautions and keep the temps low to help with pressures! its crazy to hear that people are running theses car at 250+ 😮
Glad the data is helpful! I'm hoping the Kazama baffle makes things even better. Also, FWIW, I ran my car very hard on 5W-20 and no oil cooler for a year and it is still alive and kicking :) Granted, I did have my normal 1/2 quart over fill during that period.
Great analysis, especially with the attention to detail on how the slightly lower RPM reduces the pressure drops. It’s interesting to see the 0.5 quart overfill having such a significant affect. It might actually be easier to see the benefit at lower RPM, since at high RPM, I think we’re consuming the oil in the sump fast enough where the 0.5 qt doesn’t make as big of a difference. To me this supports the idea that we’re just dealing with slosh, rather than an issue with drainback or insufficient pumping capacity.
Thanks! I agree with the sloshing theory. It was pretty clear in the logs when the car was sliding and regaining grip, just by looking at the oil pressure peaks and valley's. Situations where where the oil is getting whipped around around in the pan. Excited to see how the vertical baffle(s) perform.
Excellent work man. Good on you to include the effects of prolonged hot lapping on the oil pressures as well - it does make sense and it justifies adding an oil cooler. I've seen Ansix Auto's video testing a BRZ on a Vancouver track and they recommended ditching the OE oil cooling altogether in favor of a full oil cooler.
The factory oil to water cooler is not just to cool the oil, but also warm it up so the entire system is more stabilized. In track use this has a limit and the oil can't be cooled sufficiently for those conditions.
Thanks for sharing this data! If you are comfortable with it I'd like to see if a 1qt overfill helps even more.Though, I guess at this point it'd be with a baffle in place.
I might do that, but happy with how the 1/2 quart test turned out. I'm not sure if going to a full 1 quart overfill might be getting into the danger zone of too much oil on these engines?
Great video! 2 Questions: 1. is thre any negative effect of additional oil for track days or for daily driving? 2. is there a speed range where the oil pressure does not go down in right turns, as long as you are below a certain speed level - e.g. below 60 or 80mph? I am asking from a daily driver perspective to get a feeling if "spirited" driving on mountain roads or long right turns on a highway ramp (here in germany the right turns before the autobahn can sometimes be quite sharp, but still inviting to press down the gas hard for 3-4 seconds in the right curve before entering the autobahn straight, but usually speedwise usually not more than 60mph, depending on the curve radius). Maybe speed is also the wrong term and rather g-force should be used, I am simply interested if there are any scenarios outside of the track where this right turn issue could come into effect because I am not planning to track the car. Thx!
If you are not tracking the car I would not worry about it one bit. If you want to be ultra safe, just don't rev it to the limiter in a hard right turn, use the higher gear to keep RPM lower.
I've suggested to others to construct a truncated oil sump with a baffle surround and an extended oil pickup, along with 4 doors for oil control. Make the depth of the sump for the added capacity you desire, as over filling raises the oil to a point it can add too much crankcase pressure and stay attached to mechanical engine assemblies too. If that new baffle works out for you, then that is easier than what I described. Best on it.
this is what i have been saying from the start. on track days just add 500ml more oil, its what everyone did on last gen as well although the issue wasn't as bad. i don't think temps or weight rating has anything to do with this, its just slosh in the pan. needs a new design pickup
It's well proven by now that (lower) temps and oil do have a positive effect on pressure. But yes, adding the extra oil is an easy thing to that seems to help the most. I have done that on my gen2 as well, over a year and 10 tracks days on 5w-20 (and no oil cooler), up until I started testing pressures.
Yep, I would think so as well. It was in my plans to test exactly that. I had my set of 255/35r18 Bridgestone RE71RS there with me, but we got rained out before I could get them on and test :(
@@TheBTRGarage - I'm running 245/40-17s on my GR on 9" wide wheels and had rubbing problems. But, the tires were Falken RT660s, which tend to run wider that most others. I had to run 10mm spacers. I don't know how you run 255s. Looking forward to your other tests.
@@bluelacyseo8964 I have shaved fenders, that's the main thing. Also, 12mm spacers in front and -3 camber, rear just has -2.5 camber, no spacers. The front rubs a little bit under heavy load/turning.
Thanks for sharing this! Very nicely performed and presented! Any side-effects of the 1/2q overfill? Was the engine performance affected by it? Also, what oil viscosity where you using? Thanks again!
Thanks! Yes, 5W-40 is on my list of things to test as well. I may be able to change the oil for Sunday when I'm at Chuckwalla next, since I'll have my trailer and tools all there. We'll see, depends on if they run the same track direction or not.
@@Argentinagang2022 It is already known from other videos/testing that 5W-40 does improve oil pressure when at track temperatures. So, we could assume a small increase in pressures all around with 5W-40 compared to my 5W-30 tests. Guesstimate in the 4-6psi range give or take.
Great content, very clear, very scientific, i love it ! I've been watching all the 900BRZ videos on the subject and i think with both your date we will be able to find a solution for the community. To me it looks like slosh, it's so sad that there is not much room to make the oil pan more square or maybe like a dovetail shape to keep the oil in the pan.
Thank you for you thorough testing and analysis! I'l definitly would use this. Btw any observations if overfill may affect hillclimbs of have any impact on intensive uphill/downhills?
Great info thank you for putting this together! I see a lot of the other people doing similar testing running these GTRadial SX2s. What's the advantage of them besides price? Do they have good wear characteristics on track? Also, did you notice any pressure drops after installing the jackson racing oil cooler?
The SX2 is the "spec" tire for 86 Cup racing series. It's a cheap, low grip, long lasting tire. I only used since the other testers used it, and I happened to have a set. I'll be testing on RE71RS as well. I did not have pressure logging before the JR oil cooler.
Yea, I've seen some tests from other's on that. The effect is still the same, just pressures are up across the board 3-5 psi compared to 5w-30 (what I'm currently using). I will probably switch to 5w-40 as well at next oil change.
@@TheBTRGarage same, I’ve been running ultra platinum pennzoil 5w30 with 0.5 overfill. Just changed the oil after this weekend at the track and grabbed a sample for Blackstone. It’s the end of the season for me, by next season I’ll likely go 5w40 Ravenol. Ravenol is suppose to have additives that add a protection layer around bearings specifically for starvation moments. I’ll do an oil analysis after that as well to see if any bearing is present. This all assumes no new info comes out.
@@jrfish007 Interesting, haven't heard of the Ravenol stuff, sounds promising. I just got my 3rd Blackstone test back and everything is in spec, nothing out of the ordinary. That was with 0w-20 and all my previous tracking/autox for the 1st year.
I don't remove it if it is just 1/2qt. When I did a 1qt over fill test I did remove most of that. Too much oil and you'll get white smoke out the exhaust on startup.
so if someone can develop an aftermarket dip stick or mod to gauge where the 1/2 quart , 1 quart plus fill marks are, this would be a good intermediate until an oil pan solution or better is developed.
hi, i want to buy a gr86 but i am a bit scared of this oil starvation problem. i will drive the car on mountain passes and i will go on the nurburgring twice a year making a total of maximum 20 laps every year, will i have oil starvation problems if i keep the gr 86 completely stock
Not really. Adding any oil cooler will lower oil pressure at least a small amount, but it's negligible to the benefit it provides. The recent Ansix auto video seems to suggest that the OEM heat exchanger is reducing flow/pressure. But, another community member also tested removing it (while having an oil cooler) and it did not make much of a difference.
He was using the Jackson Racing combined oil cooler and radiator, which I believe are worse pressure loss wise. The one BTR is using is a standalone cooler, which although it's Jackson Racing branded, uses a core made by setrab, which are common in motorsport and seem to have fairly minimal pressure loss.
@@michaelnewman6645 yes I know that but there is other people posting about other coolers including the oem one offering a large drop. I should be getting my oil pressure sensor setup soon so i can see for myself but I would like to copy what btr did for cooling in the long run
@@02semiata Makes sense, I'm in the same phase as you: Just installed a pressure sensor this week, and will finish wiring this weekend to be ready for a track day Monday. I don't have a cooler yet either, so I've been keeping an eye on everyone's testing too. I'll go looking around for some more data on the stock oil cooler's pressure drop. Maybe I missed some of the forum posts you're talking about.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
*What do you think of the tests? Anything I could do differently, better?*
Hi, I am a ZD8 BRZ driver from Taiwan.
Thank you for your efforts in this car series. I will also drive on the Taiwan circuit.
It is easier to buy Japanese parts in Taiwan, so I will also refer to these corrections when purchasing parts.
Sorry, my English grammar is not good, so I use GOOGLE Translate. I hope you can understand and I would like to express my sincere thanks to you.
Thanks for watching, glad to help!
appreciate you for taking the time to do these experiments. these finding are very reassuring. on my last track day i did also overfill by nearly a quart and kept the car under 230 while on a hot day at buttonwillow. car is equipped with the same JR cooler with shroud and the car didnt skip a beat and had no issues with the overfill. i am confident now that i can continue on with my track days and not have to worry about any crazy pressure drop issues as long as i take the necessary precautions and keep the temps low to help with pressures! its crazy to hear that people are running theses car at 250+ 😮
Glad the data is helpful! I'm hoping the Kazama baffle makes things even better.
Also, FWIW, I ran my car very hard on 5W-20 and no oil cooler for a year and it is still alive and kicking :) Granted, I did have my normal 1/2 quart over fill during that period.
Great analysis, especially with the attention to detail on how the slightly lower RPM reduces the pressure drops.
It’s interesting to see the 0.5 quart overfill having such a significant affect. It might actually be easier to see the benefit at lower RPM, since at high RPM, I think we’re consuming the oil in the sump fast enough where the 0.5 qt doesn’t make as big of a difference. To me this supports the idea that we’re just dealing with slosh, rather than an issue with drainback or insufficient pumping capacity.
Thanks! I agree with the sloshing theory. It was pretty clear in the logs when the car was sliding and regaining grip, just by looking at the oil pressure peaks and valley's. Situations where where the oil is getting whipped around around in the pan. Excited to see how the vertical baffle(s) perform.
Excellent work man. Good on you to include the effects of prolonged hot lapping on the oil pressures as well - it does make sense and it justifies adding an oil cooler. I've seen Ansix Auto's video testing a BRZ on a Vancouver track and they recommended ditching the OE oil cooling altogether in favor of a full oil cooler.
Thanks! I saw the Ansix video too. I may test removing the OEM heat exchanger at some point on my setup, to see what happens.
The factory oil to water cooler is not just to cool the oil, but also warm it up so the entire system is more stabilized. In track use this has a limit and the oil can't be cooled sufficiently for those conditions.
Thanks for sharing this data! If you are comfortable with it I'd like to see if a 1qt overfill helps even more.Though, I guess at this point it'd be with a baffle in place.
I might do that, but happy with how the 1/2 quart test turned out. I'm not sure if going to a full 1 quart overfill might be getting into the danger zone of too much oil on these engines?
Great video! 2 Questions:
1. is thre any negative effect of additional oil for track days or for daily driving?
2. is there a speed range where the oil pressure does not go down in right turns, as long as you are below a certain speed level - e.g. below 60 or 80mph? I am asking from a daily driver perspective to get a feeling if "spirited" driving on mountain roads or long right turns on a highway ramp (here in germany the right turns before the autobahn can sometimes be quite sharp, but still inviting to press down the gas hard for 3-4 seconds in the right curve before entering the autobahn straight, but usually speedwise usually not more than 60mph, depending on the curve radius). Maybe speed is also the wrong term and rather g-force should be used, I am simply interested if there are any scenarios outside of the track where this right turn issue could come into effect because I am not planning to track the car. Thx!
If you are not tracking the car I would not worry about it one bit. If you want to be ultra safe, just don't rev it to the limiter in a hard right turn, use the higher gear to keep RPM lower.
I've suggested to others to construct a truncated oil sump with a baffle surround and an extended oil pickup, along with 4 doors for oil control. Make the depth of the sump for the added capacity you desire, as over filling raises the oil to a point it can add too much crankcase pressure and stay attached to mechanical engine assemblies too. If that new baffle works out for you, then that is easier than what I described. Best on it.
Production and data and presentation is just so top notch man. Really impressive stuff and appreciate you sharing this with us!
Thank you, glad to help!
this is what i have been saying from the start. on track days just add 500ml more oil, its what everyone did on last gen as well although the issue wasn't as bad. i don't think temps or weight rating has anything to do with this, its just slosh in the pan. needs a new design pickup
It's well proven by now that (lower) temps and oil do have a positive effect on pressure. But yes, adding the extra oil is an easy thing to that seems to help the most. I have done that on my gen2 as well, over a year and 10 tracks days on 5w-20 (and no oil cooler), up until I started testing pressures.
Great information. Stickier tires might on wider wheels might also cause even lower oil pressure in those right hand turns.
Yep, I would think so as well. It was in my plans to test exactly that. I had my set of 255/35r18 Bridgestone RE71RS there with me, but we got rained out before I could get them on and test :(
@@TheBTRGarage - I'm running 245/40-17s on my GR on 9" wide wheels and had rubbing problems. But, the tires were Falken RT660s, which tend to run wider that most others. I had to run 10mm spacers. I don't know how you run 255s. Looking forward to your other tests.
@@bluelacyseo8964 I have shaved fenders, that's the main thing. Also, 12mm spacers in front and -3 camber, rear just has -2.5 camber, no spacers. The front rubs a little bit under heavy load/turning.
Thanks for sharing this! Very nicely performed and presented!
Any side-effects of the 1/2q overfill? Was the engine performance affected by it?
Also, what oil viscosity where you using?
Thanks again!
No noticeable side effects, I was using 5w-30 oil.
Very informative, thanks for doing all this testing, Justin. One recommendation would be to test with 5w40 too.
Thanks! Yes, 5W-40 is on my list of things to test as well. I may be able to change the oil for Sunday when I'm at Chuckwalla next, since I'll have my trailer and tools all there. We'll see, depends on if they run the same track direction or not.
I’d like to know this as well. Especially what 5W-40 with half a quart overfill does.
@@Argentinagang2022 It is already known from other videos/testing that 5W-40 does improve oil pressure when at track temperatures. So, we could assume a small increase in pressures all around with 5W-40 compared to my 5W-30 tests. Guesstimate in the 4-6psi range give or take.
Great content, very clear, very scientific, i love it ! I've been watching all the 900BRZ videos on the subject and i think with both your date we will be able to find a solution for the community. To me it looks like slosh, it's so sad that there is not much room to make the oil pan more square or maybe like a dovetail shape to keep the oil in the pan.
Thanks! See my most recent video with the oil pan baffle results. Sadly, it seems to be more than just oil sloshing in the pan 😕
Great video as usual and glad to see the subscriber number increasing!
Thank you for you thorough testing and analysis! I'l definitly would use this. Btw any observations if overfill may affect hillclimbs of have any impact on intensive uphill/downhills?
Great info thank you for putting this together! I see a lot of the other people doing similar testing running these GTRadial SX2s. What's the advantage of them besides price? Do they have good wear characteristics on track? Also, did you notice any pressure drops after installing the jackson racing oil cooler?
The SX2 is the "spec" tire for 86 Cup racing series. It's a cheap, low grip, long lasting tire. I only used since the other testers used it, and I happened to have a set. I'll be testing on RE71RS as well. I did not have pressure logging before the JR oil cooler.
They are very approachable and communicative on the limit as well. Good for learning car control.
Thank you Justin! Great results . Could you add a picture of the outside part of the dipstick with the half quart oil overfill?
Just added a post in the community section! It's basically about 1/2" past the max fill dot.
Community section? Where is that.
On the channel main page, the Community tab where "Posts" are made:
www.youtube.com/@TheBTRGarage/community
Living up to the build test race name here, Justin! Super helpful and well laid out data that is easy to follow
Thanks!
You’ve had so much success with half a quart, you should trail 1 full quart too.
Planning to! Another community tester (900brz) had good results with 1.25L over fill on track.
Very good data. When did you measure your oil level? Shutting down engine and waiting 5-10mins?
Thanks
Yea, I usually wait at least that long, then check it again after 2 or 3 drives. It's hard to get a consistent read, so I do lots of samples.
Very well done. Thanks Justin
Thank you!
Great video! Stupid question from GR86 novice from Germany: what ist a 1/2 a quart? 1/2 quart of a gallon?
1/2 quart is right around 1/2 liter in normal people measurements 😁 (~473ml)
thank you for your analysis and info. highly appreciate it. keep up the good work. looking forward for more info from your testing.
Thank you!
Oil pressure vs oil temp is greatly dependent on oil your using. A few folks are using w40 for this reason.
Yea, I've seen some tests from other's on that. The effect is still the same, just pressures are up across the board 3-5 psi compared to 5w-30 (what I'm currently using). I will probably switch to 5w-40 as well at next oil change.
@@TheBTRGarage same, I’ve been running ultra platinum pennzoil 5w30 with 0.5 overfill. Just changed the oil after this weekend at the track and grabbed a sample for Blackstone. It’s the end of the season for me, by next season I’ll likely go 5w40 Ravenol. Ravenol is suppose to have additives that add a protection layer around bearings specifically for starvation moments. I’ll do an oil analysis after that as well to see if any bearing is present. This all assumes no new info comes out.
@@jrfish007 Interesting, haven't heard of the Ravenol stuff, sounds promising.
I just got my 3rd Blackstone test back and everything is in spec, nothing out of the ordinary. That was with 0w-20 and all my previous tracking/autox for the 1st year.
Any plans to test 5w40?
Yes, 5W-40 oil is already in the car. Be a month or two before I am on the track again with this car though
I always wondered about this; thank you!
Happy to help!
Hey Justin, do you remove the 1/2 qt when using the car for street use?
I don't remove it if it is just 1/2qt. When I did a 1qt over fill test I did remove most of that. Too much oil and you'll get white smoke out the exhaust on startup.
Thanks for the useful information
My pleasure!
Amazing thank you good sir i have learned so much from your videos! Subbed!
Glad to help, thanks!
Great video. Thanks Justin!
Great work, keep it up!
so if someone can develop an aftermarket dip stick or mod to gauge where the 1/2 quart , 1 quart plus fill marks are, this would be a good intermediate until an oil pan solution or better is developed.
@@LoveLikeaHurricane you just overfill the line by about 1/2".
hi, i want to buy a gr86 but i am a bit scared of this oil starvation problem. i will drive the car on mountain passes and i will go on the nurburgring twice a year making a total of maximum 20 laps every year, will i have oil starvation problems if i keep the gr 86 completely stock
Just drive it and don't worry about it. About the only thing you need to do is make sure your oil level does not get low.
Do you feel as if you were dealing with oil pressure drop due to the cooler itself along with the oem cooler ?
Not really. Adding any oil cooler will lower oil pressure at least a small amount, but it's negligible to the benefit it provides. The recent Ansix auto video seems to suggest that the OEM heat exchanger is reducing flow/pressure. But, another community member also tested removing it (while having an oil cooler) and it did not make much of a difference.
@@TheBTRGarage thanks there are some forum posts talking about double digit drops for some setups yikes !
He was using the Jackson Racing combined oil cooler and radiator, which I believe are worse pressure loss wise. The one BTR is using is a standalone cooler, which although it's Jackson Racing branded, uses a core made by setrab, which are common in motorsport and seem to have fairly minimal pressure loss.
@@michaelnewman6645 yes I know that but there is other people posting about other coolers including the oem one offering a large drop. I should be getting my oil pressure sensor setup soon so i can see for myself but I would like to copy what btr did for cooling in the long run
@@02semiata Makes sense, I'm in the same phase as you: Just installed a pressure sensor this week, and will finish wiring this weekend to be ready for a track day Monday. I don't have a cooler yet either, so I've been keeping an eye on everyone's testing too. I'll go looking around for some more data on the stock oil cooler's pressure drop. Maybe I missed some of the forum posts you're talking about.
Wouldnt a high capacity pan solve these problems?
Possibly, there just isn't much room under there to fit one.
Has anybody changed to a high performance oil pump
Not that I know of. Oil pumping is not really an issue, it's the availability of oil to the pickup.
Very usefull🤝
Glad to hear!
So basically, I should stay away from highway on/off ramps. K, great.