This is insane. Literally doing (less than) free work for multi billion dollar companies that cause headache and anxiety for their customers due to lack of R&D. You all are heroes.
I work with a lot of Japanese folks as my company is Japanese, and a few of them are car enthusiasts. One of them commented about the oiling issues that the BRZ is suffering due to me giving him a ride in my '23 BRZ. In Japan, enthusiasts still think that the issues are caused by excessive RTV! I explained to him in detail the testing you've been doing and the solution Porsche uses for their own boxer engines. Now, I have a more comprehensive video to send him in order to explain exactly what the problem is and what dedicated MURIGANS like yourself are doing to solve this issue. Thanks a bunch! Hopefully Subaru execs in Japan see this video and realize that their engines are not in-fact "track ready."
I plan to order as soon as the new (deeper?) pan and baffle are designed and tested. I'm sure a lot of BRZ/GR86 owners are watching your progress like hawks and trying to keep our feet under control until the problem is truly solved. Many thanks for your continued efforts.
2 things: As mentioned below, I'm curious whether there will be a similar product for the first gen BRZ like mine. Second, have you considered or tried any skid pad testing with an accurate G meter? Seems like you could eliminate a lot of variables.
I don't even own an 86 but I absolutely love the grassroots R&D and proper scientific methods that you're doing. I've been following this saga with great interest, keep up the great work!
Thank you for all of your R&D! You are truly a hero for our community. As I become a faster driver, it’s great to know we have an option that mitigates pressure drops with data to back it up. I’ll be purchasing one as soon as they become available. These cars are truly amazing learning tools.
What a relief this news is 😅 I’m running a stock GR86 on track currently, waiting for a proper solution before installing 3 pallets worth of track parts. I need this badly, Verus. Thank you all vested parties for the work you have all put in 💪
On the FA engines, they have been designed with a Non-priority oil system. So after the oil travels along the main galley it is split in 2 directions to the mains and heads. The EJ engines used a Priority oil system where the oil would go to the mains first then the bleed off to the heads. Also there are 2 main oil restrictions the stock FA engine come with that you may want to consider: -There is a cover from the pump to the main galley, the hole in the pump cover is significantly smaller than the hole in the galley, you can port match/bore that out to eliminate that restriction -the other is the stock oil pick up tube and screen, the tube is smaller than the pump intake port and also the screen on the end has come off. Those 2 restrictions can cause Cavitation in the oil system. All oils contain a certain amount of dissolved air. When a pump can't get enough oil, air is pulled out of the oil, these air bubbles eventually collapse/implode when they reach an area of high pressure. This would cause pressure drops (though, not huge pressure valleys/but could still contribute) where the engine is under the most stress, ie: downshifting/high revs or full throttle to dig out of a turn.
Another note when modifying the stock FA series engines horsepower, testing is showing that stock rods start to bend/warp @310-350 Ft/Lbs of torque. The engine can be saved if it is caught soon enough/shut down and rebuilt. Be cautious of people who make claims more than that from stock engines. The oil pump gears start to shatter at 7.9-8k Revs, so if the rev limiter is removed, the oil pump gears will need upgraded.
You’ve obviously done some research or have some hard-won experience. Thanks for the comment. I was aware of the non-prioritized main gallery (technically it prioritizes the LHS head, which is def not what you want), but not familiar with the restrictions you mentioned. I’ll have to look into those. I have an SAE study that I’d like to cover in a deep dive video that discusses the cavitation from air coming out of solution in low pressure events. I believe this is why we can see catastrophic rod bearing failures far above 0 psi. Good to know about the failure points as you add power or raise the fuel cut-off as well. I’d like to make it reliable with stock power first!
This work substantiates my suspicions that I've always had. This is a 30k car that was bored out in order to get HP gains we all enjoy immensely and makes this car an absolute steal, value wise. I raced a ZR1 through my favorite corner tonight on my drive home and hanging with a car of that caliber and to be in his mirrors at 30k is an amazing accomplishment. We own a world class chassis and a capable powertrain. I've been following 900BRZ like we all should and have had a 4500 rev warning on my car until we get better data and this video gets us a step closer. The low revs data shows that if you take care of your car, it takes care of you. When you race it full bore, maybe not so much. Those pressure drops look to be unresolved when pushing this car into the stratosphere but there are still questions in my mind like oil temps and maybe a relationship with pressures. My engines never seen 220, but the blow ups on TH-cam we have all seen have been in the 250 plus range Thanks 900 BRZ for your tireless work!
This stuff is absolutely incredible. As someone who is genuinely considering a new BRZ/86 just as an attainable daily drive/sports car, I love seeing this work being done by enthusiasts. I wouldnt even track mine, but I’d still get this pan installed for the sake of making it bulletproof.
@@turkicsayajin2274 as per my comment - i’d just want to do it for the sake of making it bulletproof. I’m just autistic like that and dont like the idea of living with a car that has an inherent design flaw that can be fixed with a simple solution.
Extremely excited to be able to feel I can safely autox and track my car! Thanks everyone for all you've done. Can't wait to see the finished result. I know a lot of people doubted there could even be a fix aside from running an accumulator, citing it's just a shortcoming of the Subaru engine, yet here you are. Stoked, my guy.
My fa24 is being delivered in a few days for my 1st gen swap. I'm super stoked for this, and cant wait for track days and to boost it later in the year. Thank you to everyone who made this improvement!!!!
Thank you all for your persistence and hard work. I hope Verus Engineering will make alot of money for this. I for one will support them with a purchase once the product comes to market. This is the American way.
Super exciting to see such promising results in a simple solution. A lot of people think this is a non-issue and that it’s blown out of proportion but the risk of an engine failure at all is a huge concern. Great job documenting and outlining the results.
Yeah, I’ve said a couple times if people don’t think it’s a big deal, they don’t have to get the solution we eventually come up with. Took a while, but happy to be on this side of all that work.
Subaru / Toyota should be paying you, your friends and this company an incredible amount of money. I sold my GR86 for fears of it blowing up.. I’m very happy in my C6 Vette but I’m very happy you guys have found a solution!!! 🎉🎉
I own a 2024 BRZ and have been waiting to track it as soon as a promising baffle design is implemented. I am very interested Verus’s solution. Thank you for presenting this in such a professional manner!
Absolute Gigachad. Your work here will definitively shut down any and all debate regarding the root cause of why FA24 engines sometimes grenade themselves on track. There will be no further shade tree bits of wisdom that will ever have any credibility after what you have done here. Subaru and Toyota should *pay* you for the confidence that you have inspired in their products - the issue is unlikely related to excessive RTV (thank God) and most importantly it is SOLVABLE; you have demonstrated this with a fairly high degree of confidence. Consider me very interested in Varus Engineering's product, once it is finalized. However, I do not track my GR86 (at least not yet) and would be hesitant to do anything that would void the warranty. So, while I definitely do want this, I would either need assurances Re: warranty or would otherwise just overfill by 0.5 L and continue to drive the car on the street as though it were a Prius going to church on Sunday (j/k). Liked, subscribed, notifications enabled. I'm interested in all your future testing results and hope you gain all the fame and notoriety that you deserve! 😃 P.S. - For those reading this comment, PSA to replace your PCV valve every 30k miles. These engines have inherently higher crank pressures and need this more than most.
Thanks for the donation and comment! I think a small overfill like you mentioned or even just being super vigilent about checking the oil level and keeping it at or slightly above the full dot is good enough on the street. Any reliability issue given that formula absolutely should be covered under the warranty. Once your warranty expires, I’m confident there will be multiple options for pans on the market given where we’re at now!
I've been following the issue very closely from day one. This is by far the most appealing solution I have seen. I hope it works out like the initial data suggest it will.
I own a ‘23 GR86, and I couldn’t be happier to see you all putting in so much badass work to get to the bottom of this. Happily will donate. I just installed some OEM Brembos from first gen 86, plan to do coilovers, brake fluid and brake pads upgrades, and maybe Pilot Sport 4S tires for an easy HPDE day at Sonoma in the future. Your solutions with Verus would make me feel way more comfortable as an amateur who daily’s this car in the Bay Area. Will buy it for sure!❤
this is so inspiring and comforting. i’m a bit frustrated that we have to deal with this problem on such a new platform but its such an amazing car i think all this effort will be worth it
Very thankful for the continued R&D for this solution. I rallycross my GR86, but despite it being a low-grip motorsport I’m looking forward to buy and install the eventual final product. Great work as always.
While I am very fascinated by all of this I am still baffled (sorry... not to use a hack play on words) by the amount of dedication and effort that goes into fixing what is essentially a bad-by-design engine for a car of this nature, Porsche has managed to alleviate all of these problems in flat engines but obviously we're not comparing apples to apples. Maybe it's part of getting older or wealthier but I just don't care to deal with headaches likes this. Develop a dry sump or put a proper motor in it already.
Totally reasonable for people to bail on the platform as a result of these engine oiling issues, but my belief (I think justified by the results we’re starting to get) is that we can find a relatively inexpensive modification that can dramatically improve performance for people without going all the way to a dry sump. Dry sump would certainly work, but cost is probably $5-10k plus engine out for installation.
Kinda sad that Sub/Toy isnt doing anything about this extremely bad problem that these motors have, but major props to you, and the various collaborators and Verus Eng. on this project. Appreciate you, your guys' hard work, and the R&D and science that is so obviously going into a labor of love for the platform and community. You rock!
Thank you very much to everyone involved in this whole process. I was considering selling my gr86 ever since the oil starvation issues came to light, however, due to your testing, I will be purchasing the oil pan when it becomes available and keeping my 86. You guys are awesome, thank you again!
Data driven development. Absolutely love it. Thank you so much to everyone involved in this!!!! I went with a 2023 WRX when I test drove, instead of the 2023 BRZ... but I'm still highly interested in this pan for my WRX.
This is very promising. Thank you so much for doing all this testing! Seriously thank you, now I feel confident to purchase another gr86 as I sold mine since my intended use was track based.
Don't own an 86 but have been following along. There's a lot a similarities between oiling problems in the FA24 and the 2ZZ-GE in my car. Thank you for continuing to share all the data and putting everything in practical terms. This helps a lot more people than just the 86 community!
People think issues like these are limited to Subaru... Meanwhile the LS and many other engines would like a high G word. It just so happens the BRZ is one of the most track focused cars available and is therefore going to get this level of scrutiny. Not saying all engines have these issues, I'm just saying if we had data like this on a lot of sporty cars coming out I think we'd be surprised.
@@802Garage Would love to see this level of data collection on more cars. I know MX5 was developed to have robust oiling up to 1.4 G. I suspect oiling on the B48 and B58 is more robust as well, but haven’t seen actually logged data to prove it.
@@900BRZ For sure! I'm not saying Subaru isn't a big perpetrator. The EJ engines had their own issues, for example. Just that I bet there are a lot of cars with these issues that we hardly even know about.
I’ve heard 98 Camry V6 oil starve in left hand corners. Doesn’t matter because it’s an econobox. I assume lots of “normal” cars would have similar pressure drops if taken to the track. But they’re also not marketed as “track-ready” with launch promos shot at race tracks with pro drivers (referring to the BRZ launch at Thunderhill with Scott Speed)
Really great work doing all this testing and collecting all of this date. You, Verus, and the GT86 community are doing some fantastic work. Keep it up!
This is great. I’m a new driver and I think this pan will address the problem for me as well. I track about once a month and daily drive my GR86. No plans to go with a high-grip set up.
This will be a no-brainer when it is available. Verus thinks it will be around a "handful." of months before it will be commercially ready. You can see the prototype on the Verus youtube page in the "Machining Motor Mounts for our Shop Toyota GR86 (FA24)" at ~5:08. I would like to thank 900BRZ for going through all of trials and tribulations and taking us along for the ride. I looked every day for the next update. It was fun!
Glad to see an easier solution to a problem that OEM isn't willing to solve. I still love the 86/BRZ platform, but the oil starvation issues was really something that threw me off about the ZD8/ZN8. Can't wait to see the finished product.
I would be interested in this pan for sure to just have that peace of mind that any amount of hard street and backroads driving will be a breeze. I am totally interested!!
Really exciting stuff! Hopefully they could also collaborate with some other header manufacturers to allow an aftermarket header & maybe unlock more room for the pan
This is so great so see. Besides the RTV in the pickup tube and high-G cornering creating oiling issues I feel like these 2ng gen cars are so amazing. If a couple parts can effectively remove this liability that’s so promising.
Really happy to see this news. Was feeling pretty discouraged after the poor results from last years testing. My excitement for a completed solution is all time high, and I'll be making a purchase when it comes to market. The ability to have such a simple solution in comparison to the alternatives is great to see. Thank you for all the time and work you've put into this. It's definitely appreciated.
As you wished individual situations: i am quite hesitant to install something into the oil/ engine system because it would risk my warranty (Germany). I use the car both daily and on track/ drift events. Therefore, an accumulator would never find its way into my engine bay. A solution like this, however, would even intrigue me. It’s non invasive and seems to take control of the situation. At the end of the day there is no gain to have a blown up engine WITH warranty and the having to deal with Toyota to replace it. Even if the agree to do so (which could be a stressful legal situation): how long is it gonna take. I wouldn’t want to have the car standing around for 1 year… Definitely looking forward to future developments in this! Thanks for your work everyone involved.
I do not own or plan to own any of the Toyobaru twins, however I have been fully invested in the outcome of your testing. I absolutely love the enthusiasm for a resolution and detailed testing methods. I am rooting for you!
What a road car needs is a dry sump system to keep the oil supply constant and allow the oil to de-foam in the tank before being pumped into the oil galleries.
I will be doing the easy fix for the time being with a bit of an overfill on oil level, until a final product is available. Again thanks for all the effort you and others in the community are doing to find the best solution for the track enthusiast with these cars and engines.
Amazing work and development! Thank you so much 900BRZ, Verus, and people behind the scene of the development! You guys save the 2nd gen ZD/ZN8 platform for track usage and Toyota/Subaru sales! Also maybe benefit WRX VB platform community too since is FA24 too.
Love the evidence based research that you are performing for the BRZ/86. I feel like this is a very good option for those who just want to change the pan to mitigate low oil pressure. Although I don't have an GR86 yet (it's on order), the upcoming high capacity pan with built in baffling is a must buy for me.
I think your contribution to this topic and the 86 is important and you will only gain more interest, support and good results because the community is next level for these cars. 👍 good luck 🏁 OldSpeed86
This is favorable news . Very much appreciate your hard work and dedication to the GR86/BRZ community. I am curious if Verus is fabricating a formed gasket for the pan,.
There’s no gasket, still an RTV sealed solution at this point. I’d be quite interested in a gasket though. Mentioned it in my feedback but ultimately it’s up to them.
I owned an FR-S for 11 years before it got totaled last year, and I was planning to upgrade to the GR86. After doing research on the car and learning about the oiling issues, I've been holding off on a purchase to wait for aftermarket solutions to show up. I came across your channel and have been following closely ever since. The release of this product will likely be the signal for me to finally make a new car purchase. Thank you, Verus, and all other collaborators for doing such thorough and difficult work to allow more people to enjoy this car safely.
Excellent work. It's a huge benefit to the community of owners who track their cars. Like many others, I want one of these new pans as soon as they become available. When you next talk to Verus, who at some point will have to make a decision on the initial production volume, csn you suggest to them that they consider setting up pre-orders so those of us who want one without delay can pay a deposit and secure a place in the lineup of firm orders.
Along for the ride gentleman! Keep up the fantastic work. As I follow along vicariously, the temptation to sell my old NA Miata, in exchange for one of these glorious machines grows.
wow im happy to finally hear good news, you guys as a collective are awesome. And I appreaciate your time and concern to fixing this issue. We deserve better for our FA24 86's and you guys are making it happen unlike toyota and subaru. Thank you and hope to see some significant improvements by the the new prototype baffle. VERUS & BRIAN we need you!
Was a fan of Verus since they were called Velox- seemed like a great group of guys using data and an engineering mindset to make functional products. Stoked that you’re working with them and the major development you guys are making for the chassis. As soon as verus releases the product to market I’ll have one.
I'm glad all this work went into finding a straightforward fix for this problem. I actually had an engine die on me at 5K miles on my 2023 GR86. Thankfully Toyota took care of replacing it. And they never told me what caused it, just that it was "a very rare but documented problem with these engines". At the time I had been driving the car much more aggressively after doing a 500 mile break in period. I feel like I must have experienced something to do with oil pressure because I started getting audible knock. Since the engine replacement I have not driven the car at all really which makes me very disappointed. But once this fix is out there and is tested by the masses, I'll be getting it for my car so that hopefully I can enjoy driving my car once again. Thanks so much for all the hard work.
Thanks for sharing and sorry to hear about your engine failure. I would love to see actual stats for failures rates, but I’ve given up trying to keep track from anecdotes. Hoping we can make everyone feel comfortable flogging their cars!
This is really great news! I dont have a GR86 yet but when I do get one, I’ll definitely be ordering one of these. Especially considering there is nothing like this at ALL on the market. There’s not even one from the GR brand, themselves.
Thank you for all the data and research so far. It would be great if we can retain the OEM heat shield or perhaps just some shielding. I am guessing the increased capacity sump will sit a lot closer to the pan and without shielding will that cause a lot more heat in the sump on a day to day and traffic driving? Hats off for all the testing, date and developments 👍
There are some ways of managing this heat, like ceramic coating or wrapping the header. We also have some heat reflective foil on the pan. So far I haven’t seen a significant difference in oil temps, but the temp sensor is located in the oil circuit downstream of the oil cooler and I don’t have a temp sensor in the pan itself.
Great progress! One thing to consider with adding extra oil is it is documented to reduce power. It would be interesting to see the results of the stock oil pan with regular oil level versus a higher oil level on a dynamometer. As well as, the new oil pan that is being designed.
I do not own a BRZ new gen, but i do love investigations in general. with all your work and collaboration with brands, i started to like the idea of getting a BRZ with a supercharger as a track toy. Great content, waiting for more content on track, love your driving and videos :) EDIT: What i liked the most at the end of the video, is the differentiation you state about your pace and faster drivers. The product won't be only to fix the FA engine, it will also give a good leverage for advanced drivers with more pace at the track.
I love Verus as a company. The fact that they are willing to devote a lot of R&D and work with you for a part that is crucial to not landing customers in a money pit is great. They have been getting to be more well known recently (in the States), but this is going to turn them into a MASSIVE company worldwide if they fix this before competitors (also means they’ll get a big check which means better R&D for future projects!)
Thank you so much for your thorough investigation. I recently purchased my new gr86 (like literally last week) and plan to do some heavy track days in the future. I was starting to get seriously concerned about these starvation issues but these results are extremely promising. Cannot wait for that pan to become available. Thanks again.
I've been considering a BRZ or a GR86, it would be my first choice, but haven't committed vs other cars due to the pressure drop problem. I would now not hesitate with the addition of this new pan/baffle.
Yes, absolutely I'm interested, intensely so. I have a ''22 BRZ, it's the first car I've ever purchased new and may well be the only such, and I aim to keep it for the long haul. I have not tracked it yet specifically owing to this issue, and will not until a workable solution is available and I have it installed. Very high hopes for this, you guys are doing the Lord's work.
Excellent breakdown of your test results. I've been following since your first video along with the forums. I do AutoX and run a stock setup with RT660s so I generally pull high Gs but at slower speeds than what you are doing, but I still worry about oil starvation. I hope this verus pan comes to market relatively soon so that all of us in the community can better protect our motors and enjoy these cars with a little less worry on our minds 😅
If you guys make it first to market with a solution for the dreaded grenading FA24, it will absolutely be a *game changer*. I definitely suspect that people will be modeling their headers to be compatible with the solution post release to ensure that they don't lose out on business for those that want or need this solution. Extremely excited to see the results from Kevin's laps, and hope they are as promising!
Finally some results we can be excited about! Hopefully the new pan will work with most aftermarket headers (I've got a JDL EL piece mounted currently), though I'd be willing to throw the stock one back on if need be. I'd love to run more grippy tires on track but have held off due to this issue. I will be buying this once available. Really appreciate your work!
That’s a lot of good research. My first thought was a dry sump but cost is definitely a factor. What sucks is you shouldn’t have to do this with a car that was supposed to be a track vehicle. It’s almost like they only intended grannies to drive them. I don’t have 86/brz but I hope you guys find a permanent effective solution.
![Oil Starvation Solution for BRZ & GR86 - [Data Backed Analysis & Discussion]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HyzjSvi0WKk/mqdefault.jpg)
This is insane. Literally doing (less than) free work for multi billion dollar companies that cause headache and anxiety for their customers due to lack of R&D. You all are heroes.
Yeah, I’m definitely a better car enthusiast than businessman lol
@@900BRZand in my opinion, that's a good thing
You think Verus is a multi billion dollar company?
@@subieworxI'm assuming he's referring to Subaru, who designed the engine and thus is responsible for the oiling issues.
@@thepno95 good point.
I work with a lot of Japanese folks as my company is Japanese, and a few of them are car enthusiasts. One of them commented about the oiling issues that the BRZ is suffering due to me giving him a ride in my '23 BRZ. In Japan, enthusiasts still think that the issues are caused by excessive RTV! I explained to him in detail the testing you've been doing and the solution Porsche uses for their own boxer engines. Now, I have a more comprehensive video to send him in order to explain exactly what the problem is and what dedicated MURIGANS like yourself are doing to solve this issue. Thanks a bunch! Hopefully Subaru execs in Japan see this video and realize that their engines are not in-fact "track ready."
As soon as it hits the market I'll be placing an order. The huge amount of work you guys are doing is very much appreciated. Thanks!
What he said 😂
I plan to order as soon as the new (deeper?) pan and baffle are designed and tested. I'm sure a lot of BRZ/GR86 owners are watching your progress like hawks and trying to keep our feet under control until the problem is truly solved. Many thanks for your continued efforts.
I don't even own a GR86 but I'm just invested in this story lol y'all have support from the BMW community!
Haha thanks for watching and for the support!
Well worth a $50 donation, couldn't be happier spending that money. Glad to be a part of this development. Great work Brian and Verus 👍
Thanks so much! Glad to finally be able to deliver some good news!
2 things: As mentioned below, I'm curious whether there will be a similar product for the first gen BRZ like mine. Second, have you considered or tried any skid pad testing with an accurate G meter? Seems like you could eliminate a lot of variables.
I don't even own an 86 but I absolutely love the grassroots R&D and proper scientific methods that you're doing. I've been following this saga with great interest, keep up the great work!
Thanks for following along!
Thank you for all of your R&D! You are truly a hero for our community. As I become a faster driver, it’s great to know we have an option that mitigates pressure drops with data to back it up. I’ll be purchasing one as soon as they become available. These cars are truly amazing learning tools.
Thanks, great to hear it!
What a relief this news is 😅 I’m running a stock GR86 on track currently, waiting for a proper solution before installing 3 pallets worth of track parts. I need this badly, Verus. Thank you all vested parties for the work you have all put in 💪
Haha, thank you!
What can I do before my first track day to prevent this issue?
On the FA engines, they have been designed with a Non-priority oil system. So after the oil travels along the main galley it is split in 2 directions to the mains and heads. The EJ engines used a Priority oil system where the oil would go to the mains first then the bleed off to the heads.
Also there are 2 main oil restrictions the stock FA engine come with that you may want to consider:
-There is a cover from the pump to the main galley, the hole in the pump cover is significantly smaller than the hole in the galley, you can port match/bore that out to eliminate that restriction
-the other is the stock oil pick up tube and screen, the tube is smaller than the pump intake port and also the screen on the end has come off.
Those 2 restrictions can cause Cavitation in the oil system. All oils contain a certain amount of dissolved air. When a pump can't get enough oil, air is pulled out of the oil, these air bubbles eventually collapse/implode when they reach an area of high pressure. This would cause pressure drops (though, not huge pressure valleys/but could still contribute) where the engine is under the most stress, ie: downshifting/high revs or full throttle to dig out of a turn.
Another note when modifying the stock FA series engines horsepower, testing is showing that stock rods start to bend/warp @310-350 Ft/Lbs of torque. The engine can be saved if it is caught soon enough/shut down and rebuilt. Be cautious of people who make claims more than that from stock engines.
The oil pump gears start to shatter at 7.9-8k Revs, so if the rev limiter is removed, the oil pump gears will need upgraded.
You’ve obviously done some research or have some hard-won experience. Thanks for the comment. I was aware of the non-prioritized main gallery (technically it prioritizes the LHS head, which is def not what you want), but not familiar with the restrictions you mentioned. I’ll have to look into those.
I have an SAE study that I’d like to cover in a deep dive video that discusses the cavitation from air coming out of solution in low pressure events. I believe this is why we can see catastrophic rod bearing failures far above 0 psi.
Good to know about the failure points as you add power or raise the fuel cut-off as well. I’d like to make it reliable with stock power first!
This work substantiates my suspicions that I've always had. This is a 30k car that was bored out in order to get HP gains we all enjoy immensely and makes this car an absolute steal, value wise. I raced a ZR1 through my favorite corner tonight on my drive home and hanging with a car of that caliber and to be in his mirrors at 30k is an amazing accomplishment. We own a world class chassis and a capable powertrain.
I've been following 900BRZ like we all should and have had a 4500 rev warning on my car until we get better data and this video gets us a step closer. The low revs data shows that if you take care of your car, it takes care of you. When you race it full bore, maybe not so much. Those pressure drops look to be unresolved when pushing this car into the stratosphere but there are still questions in my mind like oil temps and maybe a relationship with pressures. My engines never seen 220, but the blow ups on TH-cam we have all seen have been in the 250 plus range
Thanks 900 BRZ for your tireless work!
Thanks! This is why I wanted to leave the conclusions in a subjective framing and let people make up their own minds after seeing the data.
This stuff is absolutely incredible. As someone who is genuinely considering a new BRZ/86 just as an attainable daily drive/sports car, I love seeing this work being done by enthusiasts. I wouldnt even track mine, but I’d still get this pan installed for the sake of making it bulletproof.
if you don’t track the car there is no need to worry unless you don’t maintain it correctly
@@turkicsayajin2274 as per my comment - i’d just want to do it for the sake of making it bulletproof. I’m just autistic like that and dont like the idea of living with a car that has an inherent design flaw that can be fixed with a simple solution.
@@ubernoob103 we are the same i’m gonna get the pan too and im pretty sure im never gonna track it, only touge
Extremely excited to be able to feel I can safely autox and track my car! Thanks everyone for all you've done. Can't wait to see the finished result. I know a lot of people doubted there could even be a fix aside from running an accumulator, citing it's just a shortcoming of the Subaru engine, yet here you are. Stoked, my guy.
Thank you! Very happy to have good news finally!
IT'S HERE!! 🎉
My fa24 is being delivered in a few days for my 1st gen swap. I'm super stoked for this, and cant wait for track days and to boost it later in the year. Thank you to everyone who made this improvement!!!!
Thank you all for your persistence and hard work. I hope Verus Engineering will make alot of money for this. I for one will support them with a purchase once the product comes to market. This is the American way.
Super exciting to see such promising results in a simple solution. A lot of people think this is a non-issue and that it’s blown out of proportion but the risk of an engine failure at all is a huge concern. Great job documenting and outlining the results.
Yeah, I’ve said a couple times if people don’t think it’s a big deal, they don’t have to get the solution we eventually come up with. Took a while, but happy to be on this side of all that work.
Awesome work! Can't wait to see what this thing looks like 👍🏻
Thank you. As always, appreciate all your videos as well 🤝
Subaru / Toyota should be paying you, your friends and this company an incredible amount of money. I sold my GR86 for fears of it blowing up.. I’m very happy in my C6 Vette but I’m very happy you guys have found a solution!!! 🎉🎉
I own a 2024 BRZ and have been waiting to track it as soon as a promising baffle design is implemented. I am very interested Verus’s solution. Thank you for presenting this in such a professional manner!
Thank you!
Thank you Professor 900.
Absolute Gigachad. Your work here will definitively shut down any and all debate regarding the root cause of why FA24 engines sometimes grenade themselves on track. There will be no further shade tree bits of wisdom that will ever have any credibility after what you have done here. Subaru and Toyota should *pay* you for the confidence that you have inspired in their products - the issue is unlikely related to excessive RTV (thank God) and most importantly it is SOLVABLE; you have demonstrated this with a fairly high degree of confidence.
Consider me very interested in Varus Engineering's product, once it is finalized. However, I do not track my GR86 (at least not yet) and would be hesitant to do anything that would void the warranty. So, while I definitely do want this, I would either need assurances Re: warranty or would otherwise just overfill by 0.5 L and continue to drive the car on the street as though it were a Prius going to church on Sunday (j/k).
Liked, subscribed, notifications enabled. I'm interested in all your future testing results and hope you gain all the fame and notoriety that you deserve! 😃
P.S. - For those reading this comment, PSA to replace your PCV valve every 30k miles. These engines have inherently higher crank pressures and need this more than most.
Thanks for the donation and comment! I think a small overfill like you mentioned or even just being super vigilent about checking the oil level and keeping it at or slightly above the full dot is good enough on the street. Any reliability issue given that formula absolutely should be covered under the warranty. Once your warranty expires, I’m confident there will be multiple options for pans on the market given where we’re at now!
I've been following the issue very closely from day one. This is by far the most appealing solution I have seen. I hope it works out like the initial data suggest it will.
Thank you!
I own a ‘23 GR86, and I couldn’t be happier to see you all putting in so much badass work to get to the bottom of this. Happily will donate. I just installed some OEM Brembos from first gen 86, plan to do coilovers, brake fluid and brake pads upgrades, and maybe Pilot Sport 4S tires for an easy HPDE day at Sonoma in the future. Your solutions with Verus would make me feel way more comfortable as an amateur who daily’s this car in the Bay Area. Will buy it for sure!❤
Thank you, hope Verus can get something to market soon. See you at the track!
Thank you for helping the community!
Thanks so much for your support!
this is so inspiring and comforting. i’m a bit frustrated that we have to deal with this problem on such a new platform but its such an amazing car i think all this effort will be worth it
Agree completely!
Very thankful for the continued R&D for this solution. I rallycross my GR86, but despite it being a low-grip motorsport I’m looking forward to buy and install the eventual final product. Great work as always.
Thanks, that sounds like a blast!
I’m getting into track days in the SE region. This will help immensely thank you 900BRZ and Verus!
Finally i've been waiting for this video to decide whether to or not to buy a brz/gr86. Thank you for all the research!
Same
While I am very fascinated by all of this I am still baffled (sorry... not to use a hack play on words) by the amount of dedication and effort that goes into fixing what is essentially a bad-by-design engine for a car of this nature, Porsche has managed to alleviate all of these problems in flat engines but obviously we're not comparing apples to apples. Maybe it's part of getting older or wealthier but I just don't care to deal with headaches likes this. Develop a dry sump or put a proper motor in it already.
Totally reasonable for people to bail on the platform as a result of these engine oiling issues, but my belief (I think justified by the results we’re starting to get) is that we can find a relatively inexpensive modification that can dramatically improve performance for people without going all the way to a dry sump. Dry sump would certainly work, but cost is probably $5-10k plus engine out for installation.
Kinda sad that Sub/Toy isnt doing anything about this extremely bad problem that these motors have, but major props to you, and the various collaborators and Verus Eng. on this project. Appreciate you, your guys' hard work, and the R&D and science that is so obviously going into a labor of love for the platform and community. You rock!
That's why toyota is building their own engine for the next GR86...but the current GR Corolla engine ain't that great either
Thank you very much to everyone involved in this whole process. I was considering selling my gr86 ever since the oil starvation issues came to light, however, due to your testing, I will be purchasing the oil pan when it becomes available and keeping my 86. You guys are awesome, thank you again!
Yay, happy to hear you’re gonna keep the 86!
Data driven development. Absolutely love it. Thank you so much to everyone involved in this!!!! I went with a 2023 WRX when I test drove, instead of the 2023 BRZ... but I'm still highly interested in this pan for my WRX.
Yeah if this one does well, I think they would be able to modify it pretty easily to fit the WRX.
This is very promising. Thank you so much for doing all this testing! Seriously thank you, now I feel confident to purchase another gr86 as I sold mine since my intended use was track based.
Love to hear that!
Don't own an 86 but have been following along. There's a lot a similarities between oiling problems in the FA24 and the 2ZZ-GE in my car. Thank you for continuing to share all the data and putting everything in practical terms. This helps a lot more people than just the 86 community!
Love it hear it-thanks for following along and commenting
People think issues like these are limited to Subaru... Meanwhile the LS and many other engines would like a high G word. It just so happens the BRZ is one of the most track focused cars available and is therefore going to get this level of scrutiny. Not saying all engines have these issues, I'm just saying if we had data like this on a lot of sporty cars coming out I think we'd be surprised.
@@802Garage Would love to see this level of data collection on more cars. I know MX5 was developed to have robust oiling up to 1.4 G. I suspect oiling on the B48 and B58 is more robust as well, but haven’t seen actually logged data to prove it.
@@900BRZ For sure! I'm not saying Subaru isn't a big perpetrator. The EJ engines had their own issues, for example. Just that I bet there are a lot of cars with these issues that we hardly even know about.
I’ve heard 98 Camry V6 oil starve in left hand corners. Doesn’t matter because it’s an econobox. I assume lots of “normal” cars would have similar pressure drops if taken to the track. But they’re also not marketed as “track-ready” with launch promos shot at race tracks with pro drivers (referring to the BRZ launch at Thunderhill with Scott Speed)
Really great work doing all this testing and collecting all of this date. You, Verus, and the GT86 community are doing some fantastic work. Keep it up!
Thanks for your support!
This is great. I’m a new driver and I think this pan will address the problem for me as well. I track about once a month and daily drive my GR86. No plans to go with a high-grip set up.
Awesome, yeah hope you are able to get one soon!
Im considering buying brz and I just learned there are some issues. Bit later found this video. Amazing. Cant wait for the product!
This will be a no-brainer when it is available. Verus thinks it will be around a "handful." of months before it will be commercially ready. You can see the prototype on the Verus youtube page in the "Machining Motor Mounts for our Shop Toyota GR86 (FA24)" at ~5:08.
I would like to thank 900BRZ for going through all of trials and tribulations and taking us along for the ride. I looked every day for the next update. It was fun!
Glad to see an easier solution to a problem that OEM isn't willing to solve. I still love the 86/BRZ platform, but the oil starvation issues was really something that threw me off about the ZD8/ZN8. Can't wait to see the finished product.
Thanks for sharing, totally agree
I would be interested in this pan for sure to just have that peace of mind that any amount of hard street and backroads driving will be a breeze. I am totally interested!!
Really exciting stuff!
Hopefully they could also collaborate with some other header manufacturers to allow an aftermarket header & maybe unlock more room for the pan
Yes, hope so too. Could definitely unlock even more oiling performance.
This is so great so see.
Besides the RTV in the pickup tube and high-G cornering creating oiling issues I feel like these 2ng gen cars are so amazing. If a couple parts can effectively remove this liability that’s so promising.
Totally! I love these things and want us to be able to fully enjoy them!
Really happy to see this news. Was feeling pretty discouraged after the poor results from last years testing. My excitement for a completed solution is all time high, and I'll be making a purchase when it comes to market. The ability to have such a simple solution in comparison to the alternatives is great to see. Thank you for all the time and work you've put into this. It's definitely appreciated.
Agree, thanks for sharing!
Been super excited for this vid, thank you for your service to the Subaru community!
Thanks so much for your donation 🫡
As you wished individual situations: i am quite hesitant to install something into the oil/ engine system because it would risk my warranty (Germany). I use the car both daily and on track/ drift events. Therefore, an accumulator would never find its way into my engine bay. A solution like this, however, would even intrigue me. It’s non invasive and seems to take control of the situation. At the end of the day there is no gain to have a blown up engine WITH warranty and the having to deal with Toyota to replace it. Even if the agree to do so (which could be a stressful legal situation): how long is it gonna take. I wouldn’t want to have the car standing around for 1 year… Definitely looking forward to future developments in this! Thanks for your work everyone involved.
Thanks for sharing! Has been really interesting to see everyone’s situations and how they’re thinking about it.
I do not own or plan to own any of the Toyobaru twins, however I have been fully invested in the outcome of your testing. I absolutely love the enthusiasm for a resolution and detailed testing methods. I am rooting for you!
Thanks, love the non-86 support as well!
What a road car needs is a dry sump system to keep the oil supply constant and allow the oil to de-foam in the tank before being pumped into the oil galleries.
This guy sounds like Alex Honnold! Lol great video, congrats on your collaboration with Verus.
Haha also a rock climber. Thanks!
Just bought my BRZ and it'll be lucky to see a track once a year, but I will 100% invest in this solution for peace of mind alone. Amazing work.
Thanks for sharing!
My excitement is insurmountable, I hope that future results continue to be promising!
Thank you for your commitment to the community. I look forward to install 100 or more Verus oil pans
Thank you! Hoping we can send you that many!
This is HUGE. Thank you 🙏🏼
I will be doing the easy fix for the time being with a bit of an overfill on oil level, until a final product is available. Again thanks for all the effort you and others in the community are doing to find the best solution for the track enthusiast with these cars and engines.
Sounds good, thanks for sharing!
Thank you for all your R&D! Looking forward to the final product!
Amazing work and development! Thank you so much 900BRZ, Verus, and people behind the scene of the development! You guys save the 2nd gen ZD/ZN8 platform for track usage and Toyota/Subaru sales! Also maybe benefit WRX VB platform community too since is FA24 too.
Thank you, yeah I think if this product does well, it would make a lot of sense for Verus to release a version optimized for WRX too.
The hero we don’t deserve! Hope one of the designs fit popular headers (JDL UEL for me)
Yeah can't give up those gains!
Great to hear. This should be more than enough for a street driven car. It really makes me want to get a BRZ, again.
Love the evidence based research that you are performing for the BRZ/86. I feel like this is a very good option for those who just want to change the pan to mitigate low oil pressure. Although I don't have an GR86 yet (it's on order), the upcoming high capacity pan with built in baffling is a must buy for me.
Highly anticipated and highly appreciated. Finally it is here. Looking forward to next iteration test result 🎉
Thanks so much
I think your contribution to this topic and the 86 is important and you will only gain more interest, support and good results because the community is next level for these cars. 👍 good luck 🏁 OldSpeed86
Love your methodical work that is back by correctly sampled quantitative evidence to back it up. Keep up the great work
Appreciate it!
This is favorable news . Very much appreciate your hard work and dedication to the GR86/BRZ community. I am curious if Verus is fabricating a formed gasket for the pan,.
There’s no gasket, still an RTV sealed solution at this point. I’d be quite interested in a gasket though. Mentioned it in my feedback but ultimately it’s up to them.
Yes, please! We need those in Europe. I hope you will be shipping here. There are a lot of people in need.
Looking forward to your next post!
I've had money saved up for the pan and install. It'll be a day 1 purchase when it drops, this data has been EXTREMELY encouraging.
Yes! Thanks for commenting.
very interested and excited to see the final result, keep it up!!!!
I owned an FR-S for 11 years before it got totaled last year, and I was planning to upgrade to the GR86. After doing research on the car and learning about the oiling issues, I've been holding off on a purchase to wait for aftermarket solutions to show up. I came across your channel and have been following closely ever since. The release of this product will likely be the signal for me to finally make a new car purchase. Thank you, Verus, and all other collaborators for doing such thorough and difficult work to allow more people to enjoy this car safely.
Love this car and hope we can make it work for more people! Thanks for following and for your support!
Excellent work. It's a huge benefit to the community of owners who track their cars. Like many others, I want one of these new pans as soon as they become available. When you next talk to Verus, who at some point will have to make a decision on the initial production volume, csn you suggest to them that they consider setting up pre-orders so those of us who want one without delay can pay a deposit and secure a place in the lineup of firm orders.
Yeah, I think pre-orders make a lot of sense. I asked them yesterday about that and will encourage them to do it.
Awesome, awesome work. It's really paying off! Thank you my good man.
Along for the ride gentleman! Keep up the fantastic work. As I follow along vicariously, the temptation to sell my old NA Miata, in exchange for one of these glorious machines grows.
Nice, love a good NA too.
wow im happy to finally hear good news, you guys as a collective are awesome. And I appreaciate your time and concern to fixing this issue. We deserve better for our FA24 86's and you guys are making it happen unlike toyota and subaru. Thank you and hope to see some significant improvements by the the new prototype baffle. VERUS & BRIAN we need you!
Thanks for the support!
I definitely would be interested. The peace of mind on track would be well worth it.
Thank you and Verus for all of the work put into this!
Was a fan of Verus since they were called Velox- seemed like a great group of guys using data and an engineering mindset to make functional products. Stoked that you’re working with them and the major development you guys are making for the chassis. As soon as verus releases the product to market I’ll have one.
Yeah they’ve been great to work with and you gotta respect a company that’s willing to subject their products to rigorous testing.
I'm glad all this work went into finding a straightforward fix for this problem. I actually had an engine die on me at 5K miles on my 2023 GR86. Thankfully Toyota took care of replacing it. And they never told me what caused it, just that it was "a very rare but documented problem with these engines". At the time I had been driving the car much more aggressively after doing a 500 mile break in period. I feel like I must have experienced something to do with oil pressure because I started getting audible knock. Since the engine replacement I have not driven the car at all really which makes me very disappointed. But once this fix is out there and is tested by the masses, I'll be getting it for my car so that hopefully I can enjoy driving my car once again. Thanks so much for all the hard work.
Thanks for sharing and sorry to hear about your engine failure. I would love to see actual stats for failures rates, but I’ve given up trying to keep track from anecdotes. Hoping we can make everyone feel comfortable flogging their cars!
This is really great news! I dont have a GR86 yet but when I do get one, I’ll definitely be ordering one of these. Especially considering there is nothing like this at ALL on the market. There’s not even one from the GR brand, themselves.
Thank you for all the data and research so far. It would be great if we can retain the OEM heat shield or perhaps just some shielding. I am guessing the increased capacity sump will sit a lot closer to the pan and without shielding will that cause a lot more heat in the sump on a day to day and traffic driving? Hats off for all the testing, date and developments 👍
There are some ways of managing this heat, like ceramic coating or wrapping the header. We also have some heat reflective foil on the pan. So far I haven’t seen a significant difference in oil temps, but the temp sensor is located in the oil circuit downstream of the oil cooler and I don’t have a temp sensor in the pan itself.
So happy I donated, without you and verus i dont think i would have the confidence to go to my local track!
Thank you, happy to finally be able to deliver some good news!
Great progress! One thing to consider with adding extra oil is it is documented to reduce power. It would be interesting to see the results of the stock oil pan with regular oil level versus a higher oil level on a dynamometer. As well as, the new oil pan that is being designed.
Totally agree. I’ve got some friends going to a dyno tomorrow and they may try to test at the top mark on the dipstick and 1L over.
Bravo. this guy is our hero. Thanks for all those works have done for us.
I do not own a BRZ new gen, but i do love investigations in general.
with all your work and collaboration with brands, i started to like the idea of getting a BRZ with a supercharger as a track toy.
Great content, waiting for more content on track, love your driving and videos :)
EDIT: What i liked the most at the end of the video, is the differentiation you state about your pace and faster drivers. The product won't be only to fix the FA engine, it will also give a good leverage for advanced drivers with more pace at the track.
Thanks, appreciate all the non-86 owners who are following too, just for the fun of it.
Amazing work, and you got to do it while something you have a passion for. I bet Subaru engineers are watching your channel. They should sponsor you!
I love Verus as a company. The fact that they are willing to devote a lot of R&D and work with you for a part that is crucial to not landing customers in a money pit is great. They have been getting to be more well known recently (in the States), but this is going to turn them into a MASSIVE company worldwide if they fix this before competitors (also means they’ll get a big check which means better R&D for future projects!)
Yeah, they’ve been great to work!
Thank you so much for your thorough investigation. I recently purchased my new gr86 (like literally last week) and plan to do some heavy track days in the future. I was starting to get seriously concerned about these starvation issues but these results are extremely promising. Cannot wait for that pan to become available. Thanks again.
Thanks for sharing! Hoping we have something for you soon.
I have a 2013 FRS and will upgrade to the new GR86 once this oil pan is released. Thanks for your help!
I've been considering a BRZ or a GR86, it would be my first choice, but haven't committed vs other cars due to the pressure drop problem. I would now not hesitate with the addition of this new pan/baffle.
Thanks again for the thoughtful work. I'll take a Verus deep sump the moment they are ready for release.
We see a true solution here. A huge thanks and respect to you.
Man, props to you guys for doing this, you shouldn’t have to but good thing your are to keep this platform going.
Yes, absolutely I'm interested, intensely so. I have a ''22 BRZ, it's the first car I've ever purchased new and may well be the only such, and I aim to keep it for the long haul. I have not tracked it yet specifically owing to this issue, and will not until a workable solution is available and I have it installed. Very high hopes for this, you guys are doing the Lord's work.
Thank you, we gotta get you on the track!
I think this is one of those must-order items. I have 8 versus aero items on my car, you bet I’m ordering that pan.
Great to hear-thanks!
This is incredible. If you guys get this sorted I’ll definitely think about a 2.4 BRZ. 🎉
Thanks for your diligent research. Seems like it will be the best solution for weekend track enthusiasts. I appreciate you!
keep up the good work guys. i cant wait to get the finished product.
Keep up the good work, Mr vocal fry, dude. 👍
Excellent breakdown of your test results. I've been following since your first video along with the forums. I do AutoX and run a stock setup with RT660s so I generally pull high Gs but at slower speeds than what you are doing, but I still worry about oil starvation. I hope this verus pan comes to market relatively soon so that all of us in the community can better protect our motors and enjoy these cars with a little less worry on our minds 😅
Thanks for watching and sharing your setup!
Very interested. Thank you so much for the video and thank you Verus for the designing as well! Legends
If you guys make it first to market with a solution for the dreaded grenading FA24, it will absolutely be a *game changer*. I definitely suspect that people will be modeling their headers to be compatible with the solution post release to ensure that they don't lose out on business for those that want or need this solution.
Extremely excited to see the results from Kevin's laps, and hope they are as promising!
Can’t wait to see how the 2nd iteration does. Thanks for watching!
Finally some results we can be excited about! Hopefully the new pan will work with most aftermarket headers (I've got a JDL EL piece mounted currently), though I'd be willing to throw the stock one back on if need be. I'd love to run more grippy tires on track but have held off due to this issue. I will be buying this once available. Really appreciate your work!
Thank you! Yeah I think some aftermarket headers will work, but haven’t done any testing.
That’s a lot of good research. My first thought was a dry sump but cost is definitely a factor. What sucks is you shouldn’t have to do this with a car that was supposed to be a track vehicle. It’s almost like they only intended grannies to drive them. I don’t have 86/brz but I hope you guys find a permanent effective solution.
No doubt dry sump is the most robust solution. Thanks for watching!