*Do you think an accumulator is worth the investment after seeing this data?* More oil pressure testing videos: Kazama oil pan baffle : th-cam.com/video/HEAPaPmb2m4/w-d-xo.html Low oil pressure testing and basic mitigation : th-cam.com/video/epuQNOGVkR0/w-d-xo.html Oil pressure while canyon driving : th-cam.com/video/a-Vggg7AHrI/w-d-xo.html Jackson Racing oil cooler install : th-cam.com/video/n3-wvtG2H3M/w-d-xo.html
Another awesome video! Your testing is basically in line with ours and our conclusions are pretty much the same. We hope you like the install kit and please reach out to us if you ever have any issues!
Thanks! Do you guys have any recommendations for higher pre-charge pressures? I was thinking a higher (than 6psi) pre-charge pressure might yield better oil pressure recovery results.
@@TheBTRGarage We typically recommend 5 to 10 psi, but that has historically been more for the drag racing crowd. We have seen some people running up to 20 psi of air for their pre-charge. The higher the pre-charge, the less room there is for extra oil; not usually a big deal on our 3 quart models but more of a concern for guys running the 1.5 quart. For road race/time attack applications, something closer to 20 should still leave room for extra oil while increasing the speed of oil pressure recovery.
Have you tried running different pre charge pressures to possibly have the accumulator start pushing out oil at a higher pressure? Thank you for the data, the more people we have logging and trying new things the sooner we’ll have a bulletproof fix!
Greatly appreciated! Well presented. Question. Of the 3 public tracks in SoCal, Buttonwillow, Willow springs, and Chuckwalla which do you like the best? Perhaps doing a video series on track reviews would be fun and informative. Where do you stay when you go to Willow springs? It's not the most cosmopolitan area....
Many thanks for the very thorough and informative work. Can I ask why you chose the 1.5 qt instead of the 2.0 qt? When looking at the data for the largest oil pressure drops on extended right hand turns, I found myself wondering whether the accumulator runs out of oil first or pressure first, and if there would be an improvement in the duration of oil pressure assistance if a larger accumulator were used. I tend to favor the larger one just on principle, but am struggling a bit to understand if it would make a difference.
One more thing. I have been thinking about your experience with the 40 psi electric oil pressure switch, which you bypassed in order to get the accumulator to work properly. Here's an excerpt from Canton's blog about pressure switches: "In a situation where an engine has idle oil pressure below even our lowest valve option (25 psi), we recommend selecting the pressure switch that is right beneath the normal operating oil pressure instead. This set up however, requires the driver to use the valves' electric toggle switch to turn the valve off when at idle. This is done when entering and exiting the track. Doing that will ensure that the Accusump isn't discharging while at low RPM or at idle and overfilling your oil pan." Canton has a 55-60 PSI switch, and I also found myself wondering if that switch might be a better option, given the FA 24 warm oil pressure at idle, which I understand is well below 25psi.
I thought about using that 55-60psi switch, but at that point it is basically on all the time (Based on my own oil psi data). I read the same thing from Canton as well. Figured I could try the 35-40psi switch and just bypass like I did, if it didn't work out.
Yes, after thinking about it, I think you're probably right that it may wind up being on much of the time, perhaps a little less on cars that don't have the oil pressure drop inherent with an aftermarket oil cooler.
The pressure dropps come mosty in right curves. What would happen if we kept going to the right in a circle? Do you think it makes sense to test the drop issue on a circle? It might be more efficient to test it this way.
I was really hoping this would be more of a solution as opposed to a slight to moderate improvement. Definitely doesn't seem to make a huge difference when taking the sensor location delta into account. Would also help to see more apples to apples testing such as no accumulator new sensor location/ counterclockwise vs accumulator/new sensor location/ counterclockwise. Either way, thank you so much for doing all this and sharing it with us, it is invaluable. Looking forward to more testing. By the way, I may have missed this but was the accumulator testing done with the overfill or at the correct level? Did you have problems with sucking in oil into the intake and burning it when you overfilled? Do you have an AOS/catch can?
More testing to come, this was just the first outing. I had 1/2qt overfill in these tests. I have seen no noticeable side effects with 1/2qt overfill, but with 1qt overfill (previously tested) I did get a little of smoke out the exhaust on startup. No AOS or catch can.
@mikemikeyee I've since done more testing (higher pre-charge pressure) and the big drops are virtually eliminated. This was also after doing a new baseline of oil pressure with the sensor in the new spot. So, it has proven to be a significant improvement.
Thank you very much for all your hard work, I know what's behind it! Awesome! I do have one question and couldn't really find an answer: How does the Grip of the Radial GT SX2 Tyre compare to the factory Michelin PS4 215/40? You describe it as a "low grip" tyre, but as an European (we don't get the radial tyre normally) I find it hard to understand the grip level. Best regards!
I've driven on my stock PS4 tires, and I currently have the SX2's on my GR86 and they're in the same 300 treadwear class of summer tires. The SX2's aren't as long lasting, but they're usually about half the price of the Michelins and have a very similar grip level
As mentioned, from a grip perspective, they are pretty similar. My lap time with the OEM Michelin PS4 was fairly close to the 235 wide SX2's I have. The PS4's are probably a tad quicker and I like the feel of them MUCH better than the SX2.
Amazing video and Data, I run a BRZ for drifting applications and just got an accumulator but haven’t installed it yet. After your experience with having to bypass the electric valve, would you recommend not getting the electric valve and get a manual valve and just turn it on/off under the hood before entering the track ? Or is the electric still worth it for the convenience of having a switch ???
A manual valve will work fine, and yes, just turn it on/off before and after via the hood. Electric valve is convenient, plus you can use it to pre-oil before starting the car, without having to get out of the seat a few times.
@@TheBTRGarage BUT is there a greater chance of flooding out the engine with oil at idle pressures? What are the potential fails with a manual valve, if you get stuck on grid and cannot exit your car but have to sit at idle because another car crashed will the system constantly think because you’re at idle pressures that it needs to keep dumping oil in and potentially put a quart and a half too much oil in and cause major failures in other ways? Like flooding the system. I just want to cover all my bases before I decide what route to go. I have seen a few people do the manual valve but it raises a lot of questions for me. Any help is appreciated brother. You seem like you know your stuff.
@RyanPine True, those are good thoughts to consider for sure, with the manual valve. I went with the electronic valve partly to eliminate scenarios like you mentioned. But, with that said there are many people using the manual valves, so maybe it is not that big of a deal. If you can afford it, I would definitely get the electronic valve.
Hey Justin, a question-two about Eibach springs you installed a year ago: Did they "destroy" your OEM dumpers? How many miles have you made with them so far?
Personally, I'm holding off on the accumulator until I see what 900BRZ has cooked up. He has confirmed it's not an accumulator, and his oil pressure looked even more solid than the accumulator results I've seen so far.
Some other folks also sing the praises of a baffle plate at this point in time (February 2024). Rob of Phelps Garage swears by the Tomei baffle, which is supposedly a multi-level deal, but he's also gone ahead with an accumulator as he runs high grip and high downforce. CM Autohaus, meanwhile, has mentioned the SYMS baffle plate + oil overfill as a solution.
MotoIQ has a recent video comparing the Subaru EJ and FA motors. Both engines have an internal air-oil separator, but the FA's is larger and far better as per Mike Kojima. Seems like it's less critical on the FA24s to add an external air-oil separator.
@@TheBTRGarage This is some excellent and much needed perspective! Every single GR86/BRZ video is full of comments about right turns due to the warranty denial controversy, and everyone acts like this oiling issue is a unique problem. Thank you for this video and all the in depth analysis too!
maybe I was a bit quick to speak,but you literally mentioned long sweeping right hand turns, so, highway on/ off-ramps came to mind. All I did was listen to the information you gave to me and then you beat me down 🤕🩼 I did order the OBD2 sensor as you suggested and it's amazing, however, I'm wondering if you've noticed random cylinder misfires while using it? I took my findings to the Toyota dealership and they were shocked to see that the sensor was more detailed and capable than their own tools. The techs said that Toyota could probably detect such a thing but it would require a special circumstance and different set of tools, that the dealership simply didn't have in their possession...Again, they were quite impressed. Lol they all came out to see it. These misfires never once triggered the engine warning light, and so we are thinking that there may be some crazy level of tolerance for this engine, before the warning is triggered.
*Do you think an accumulator is worth the investment after seeing this data?*
More oil pressure testing videos:
Kazama oil pan baffle : th-cam.com/video/HEAPaPmb2m4/w-d-xo.html
Low oil pressure testing and basic mitigation : th-cam.com/video/epuQNOGVkR0/w-d-xo.html
Oil pressure while canyon driving : th-cam.com/video/a-Vggg7AHrI/w-d-xo.html
Jackson Racing oil cooler install : th-cam.com/video/n3-wvtG2H3M/w-d-xo.html
Another awesome video! Your testing is basically in line with ours and our conclusions are pretty much the same. We hope you like the install kit and please reach out to us if you ever have any issues!
Thank you! And thanks for making the mounting job MUCH easier than a home grown setup :)
Awesome work, thanks!
The accumulator seems to be doing go job and on top of that can help with cold starts.
Yep! Having used it daily driving a few weeks now, I do open it before every few starts for the cold start, plus to re-regulate the tank pressure.
Excellent video man. This is reference-quality stuff for GR86/BRZ track nuts.
Much appreciated! Thanks!
Great reference videos! I’m sure people will gain value from these videos for years to come.
Great video, we love data! 🏁
Thanks! Do you guys have any recommendations for higher pre-charge pressures? I was thinking a higher (than 6psi) pre-charge pressure might yield better oil pressure recovery results.
@@TheBTRGarage We typically recommend 5 to 10 psi, but that has historically been more for the drag racing crowd. We have seen some people running up to 20 psi of air for their pre-charge. The higher the pre-charge, the less room there is for extra oil; not usually a big deal on our 3 quart models but more of a concern for guys running the 1.5 quart. For road race/time attack applications, something closer to 20 should still leave room for extra oil while increasing the speed of oil pressure recovery.
Thanks, that's good to know. I will test out higher pressures and see if it changes anything.
Have you tried running different pre charge pressures to possibly have the accumulator start pushing out oil at a higher pressure?
Thank you for the data, the more people we have logging and trying new things the sooner we’ll have a bulletproof fix!
Not yet, but plan too soon.
Big thanks for your work and sharing this results. Appreciate your recommendations.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks!
I'm curious how the GR86 Cup cars are setup to combat this issue. To my knowledge, I believe all they have is an external oil cooler.
Greatly appreciated! Well presented. Question. Of the 3 public tracks in SoCal, Buttonwillow, Willow springs, and Chuckwalla which do you like the best? Perhaps doing a video series on track reviews would be fun and informative. Where do you stay when you go to Willow springs? It's not the most cosmopolitan area....
Thanks! I've only been to Chuckwalla actually, of those tracks. I am in Phoenix so the others are a much longer drive.
Excellent! Thank you for taking the time to do this test!
Glad to help!
Many thanks for the very thorough and informative work. Can I ask why you chose the 1.5 qt instead of the 2.0 qt? When looking at the data for the largest oil pressure drops on extended right hand turns, I found myself wondering whether the accumulator runs out of oil first or pressure first, and if there would be an improvement in the duration of oil pressure assistance if a larger accumulator were used. I tend to favor the larger one just on principle, but am struggling a bit to understand if it would make a difference.
One more thing. I have been thinking about your experience with the 40 psi electric oil pressure switch, which you bypassed in order to get the accumulator to work properly. Here's an excerpt from Canton's blog about pressure switches:
"In a situation where an engine has idle oil pressure below even our lowest valve option (25 psi), we recommend selecting the pressure switch that is right beneath the normal operating oil pressure instead. This set up however, requires the driver to use the valves' electric toggle switch to turn the valve off when at idle. This is done when entering and exiting the track. Doing that will ensure that the Accusump isn't discharging while at low RPM or at idle and overfilling your oil pan."
Canton has a 55-60 PSI switch, and I also found myself wondering if that switch might be a better option, given the FA 24 warm oil pressure at idle, which I understand is well below 25psi.
I thought about using that 55-60psi switch, but at that point it is basically on all the time (Based on my own oil psi data). I read the same thing from Canton as well. Figured I could try the 35-40psi switch and just bypass like I did, if it didn't work out.
Yes, after thinking about it, I think you're probably right that it may wind up being on much of the time, perhaps a little less on cars that don't have the oil pressure drop inherent with an aftermarket oil cooler.
Awesome video. Very informative.
Excellent video. Thanks
Fantastic results! What logging tools are you using for your data overlays? Not familiar with it but love how simply and informative they are.
I'm using RaceChrono Pro with a GJP IO Box, plus oil pressure sensor. Most of the details found here: th-cam.com/video/jFo6eSj_rzA/w-d-xo.html
thanks for the video. btw, such a nice job with multi screenview and gauges, etc.
Thanks! I put some extra effort into the multi-screens and additional viewpoints so glad it is being noticed :)
The pressure dropps come mosty in right curves. What would happen if we kept going to the right in a circle? Do you think it makes sense to test the drop issue on a circle? It might be more efficient to test it this way.
I was really hoping this would be more of a solution as opposed to a slight to moderate improvement. Definitely doesn't seem to make a huge difference when taking the sensor location delta into account. Would also help to see more apples to apples testing such as no accumulator new sensor location/ counterclockwise vs accumulator/new sensor location/ counterclockwise. Either way, thank you so much for doing all this and sharing it with us, it is invaluable. Looking forward to more testing. By the way, I may have missed this but was the accumulator testing done with the overfill or at the correct level? Did you have problems with sucking in oil into the intake and burning it when you overfilled? Do you have an AOS/catch can?
More testing to come, this was just the first outing.
I had 1/2qt overfill in these tests. I have seen no noticeable side effects with 1/2qt overfill, but with 1qt overfill (previously tested) I did get a little of smoke out the exhaust on startup. No AOS or catch can.
Wonder if the smaller size accumulator was a factor. Could the results be better if a larger sized accumulator is used?
@mikemikeyee I've since done more testing (higher pre-charge pressure) and the big drops are virtually eliminated. This was also after doing a new baseline of oil pressure with the sensor in the new spot. So, it has proven to be a significant improvement.
Thank you very much for all your hard work, I know what's behind it! Awesome! I do have one question and couldn't really find an answer: How does the Grip of the Radial GT SX2 Tyre compare to the factory Michelin PS4 215/40? You describe it as a "low grip" tyre, but as an European (we don't get the radial tyre normally) I find it hard to understand the grip level. Best regards!
I've driven on my stock PS4 tires, and I currently have the SX2's on my GR86 and they're in the same 300 treadwear class of summer tires. The SX2's aren't as long lasting, but they're usually about half the price of the Michelins and have a very similar grip level
As mentioned, from a grip perspective, they are pretty similar. My lap time with the OEM Michelin PS4 was fairly close to the 235 wide SX2's I have. The PS4's are probably a tad quicker and I like the feel of them MUCH better than the SX2.
Amazing video and Data, I run a BRZ for drifting applications and just got an accumulator but haven’t installed it yet. After your experience with having to bypass the electric valve, would you recommend not getting the electric valve and get a manual valve and just turn it on/off under the hood before entering the track ? Or is the electric still worth it for the convenience of having a switch ???
A manual valve will work fine, and yes, just turn it on/off before and after via the hood. Electric valve is convenient, plus you can use it to pre-oil before starting the car, without having to get out of the seat a few times.
@@TheBTRGarage BUT is there a greater chance of flooding out the engine with oil at idle pressures? What are the potential fails with a manual valve, if you get stuck on grid and cannot exit your car but have to sit at idle because another car crashed will the system constantly think because you’re at idle pressures that it needs to keep dumping oil in and potentially put a quart and a half too much oil in and cause major failures in other ways? Like flooding the system. I just want to cover all my bases before I decide what route to go. I have seen a few people do the manual valve but it raises a lot of questions for me. Any help is appreciated brother. You seem like you know your stuff.
@RyanPine True, those are good thoughts to consider for sure, with the manual valve. I went with the electronic valve partly to eliminate scenarios like you mentioned. But, with that said there are many people using the manual valves, so maybe it is not that big of a deal. If you can afford it, I would definitely get the electronic valve.
Hey Justin, a question-two about Eibach springs you installed a year ago: Did they "destroy" your OEM dumpers? How many miles have you made with them so far?
@@CPE-j1u No, OEM dampers are fine. Probably 4-5k miles on them now, probably a little more.
@@TheBTRGarage Thanks for the answer and GREAT VIDEOS
Personally, I'm holding off on the accumulator until I see what 900BRZ has cooked up. He has confirmed it's not an accumulator, and his oil pressure looked even more solid than the accumulator results I've seen so far.
Some other folks also sing the praises of a baffle plate at this point in time (February 2024). Rob of Phelps Garage swears by the Tomei baffle, which is supposedly a multi-level deal, but he's also gone ahead with an accumulator as he runs high grip and high downforce. CM Autohaus, meanwhile, has mentioned the SYMS baffle plate + oil overfill as a solution.
@@TypeVertigo I haven't seen any compelling data on baffle plates yet. And I'm not gonna void my warranty for hopes and dreams. 😅
Thanks!
Welcome!
I have a 2013 Subaru BRZ limited I know that you had one was there a problem with oil pressure
Thank you.
Would you recommend an Air oil separator if you often drive the back roads?
I don't think it is really necessary.
MotoIQ has a recent video comparing the Subaru EJ and FA motors. Both engines have an internal air-oil separator, but the FA's is larger and far better as per Mike Kojima. Seems like it's less critical on the FA24s to add an external air-oil separator.
Now with that being said. Have you put on a baffle plate on the car or is it still free to slosh around?
I already tested a baffle and it was garbage. See my other video : th-cam.com/video/HEAPaPmb2m4/w-d-xo.html
@@TheBTRGarage with the accusump installed or without?
That was without the accumulator. The baffle made things worse, I don't see how it would be any different with the accumulator there or not.
How come you have not put coil overs on it
Seeing how much speed I can get out of the OEM shocks.
Well how do BMW and Porsche prevent this?? Dang, people. Why is this such a mystery? Lol
Dry sump is really the proper solution
I have a time attack BMW race car and it has the same problems, just left turns. We also do accumulators there.
@@TheBTRGarage This is some excellent and much needed perspective! Every single GR86/BRZ video is full of comments about right turns due to the warranty denial controversy, and everyone acts like this oiling issue is a unique problem. Thank you for this video and all the in depth analysis too!
@@RAY_FILET Wild how you came to that conclusion but okay...clearly didn't watch the video.
maybe I was a bit quick to speak,but you literally mentioned long sweeping right hand turns, so, highway on/ off-ramps came to mind. All I did was listen to the information you gave to me and then you beat me down
🤕🩼
I did order the OBD2 sensor as you suggested and it's amazing, however, I'm wondering if you've noticed random cylinder misfires while using it? I took my findings to the Toyota dealership and they were shocked to see that the sensor was more detailed and capable than their own tools. The techs said that Toyota could probably detect such a thing but it would require a special circumstance and different set of tools, that the dealership simply didn't have in their possession...Again, they were quite impressed. Lol they all came out to see it. These misfires never once triggered the engine warning light, and so we are thinking that there may be some crazy level of tolerance for this engine, before the warning is triggered.