The 2024 Kia Carnival Is A Fantastic Minivan For Those That Want To Pretend They Are Driving An SUV
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- It figures that right after we filmed this Kia announced that they are making a Carnival Hybrid for 2025. Of course they did. Anyway, there are still solid reasons to get the 2024 Carnival, especially if you're looking for a deal once that 2025 model starts hitting dealers.
You know the drill: Minivans are great, so are station wagons and people should just give up their SUV, blah blah blah. Yep, it's true, but you'd still be driving a minivan which is oddly not as desirable. Go figure.
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No one should EVER (have to) apologize for driving a minivan. They are truly the KING of cars if you value quiet, comfortable, economical transportation.
They're not that economical anymore. Carnival SX trim is $42k, probably more with Stealership Market Adjustment ™
Absolutely 👍🏼
Long past raising kids, but still can't go without one. :)
Economical? Lol
@@undercoverpotential Buy 2-3 years used so that sweet nobody buys minivans depreciation kicks in...
This video is too well done, 100% information and 0% crap. Please explain yourself sir.
KIA has an LX W/ Seat package that seats 8 for $36,790 MSRP. I purchased it in February. It is a great value. Chrysler lost me has a customer since they no longer have a low-cost option like the Voyager. I was able to get the Carnival for $1000 off MSRP. So far, I love it. There is plenty of power.
I don’t know, not a bad name if you ask me. I don’t have any kids but my brother has 3, and let me tell you, it feels like a carnival whenever we have to take’em anywhere.
Yup! Everyday is a carnival when you have kids. 😂
Used to own a 1997 Chevy Astro I was able to transport an Yamaha FZR1000 in the back with the 2nd row seats still in place. . Or an lawn tractor. People just don't know how much space these things have compared to an SUV. If you want the most space and the most practictal transportation that you can even take nap in fully stretched out , then you should get minivan instead of an SUV, or even instead of a truck. My brother also put a mattress in the back, blanket and pillow, and slept in it on a long road trips, with a small TV for entertainment. 👌
We have a Sedona SXL with nearly 200k miles (several cross country family road trips), and we will be buying a 2025 Carnival hybrid. We absolutely love the practicality and more car like feel and creature comforts of the Kia (not a fan of the full in your face minivan interior feel of the competition). Our biggest gripe is the fuel economy. Another excellent video, Alex.
That is good to know! I have a 2018 Kia Sedona SX. I love my Sedona.
Same with my 2016 Sedona, it only has 130k miles but that new carnival is catching our eye...@@rmwarriors16
As a guy, I'd drive a minivan if I needed one. Drove around a Sienna recently while looking after it for a relative and I totally see myself owning one if I needed the space and utility. I just don't get the hate minivans get. I don't understand how a "family hauler" or "mom mobile" are slights. Heck, who's more masculine than the guy driving around in the car that's a literal testament to their ability to find a partner and their virility? lmao
In the market for a minivan so my wife and I test drove some recently. We loved the carnival. Their standard tech and safety features are terrific. Very roomy. Odyssey was just bleh. The design feels so dated, not to mention the infotainment system. And driving it just felt like another Honda…nothing exciting. We wish we could test drive the sienna but none of the dealers in our area even had any on their lots and we were told we would have to wait about 3-4 months even if we custom ordered one. We’re going with the carnival.
I want a PHEV minivan that isn’t a Chrysler !
+1, but pure EV! I'm honestly surprised there aren't any on the market yet.
The trouble is that the batteries have to go somewhere, which means you give up things like folding seats down... Which defeats the purpose of a minivan... So why not have a higher clearance and more capable SUV at that point?
@@Snerdles Yes, they would need to do a better engineering job, and perhaps need battery tech to improve a bit. Remember, a PHEV doesn't need a ton of range to serve its purpose (to ensure that much of one's daily driving is done with batteries). Also, for anyone that has ever had kids, the usefulness of sliding doors can't be overstated.
Sort of to your point, sort of.. , I'd be perfectly happy if they just put sliding doors on a PHEV Palisade etc.
@@amigajoe Personally I think a regular hybrid with a smaller 4-5kwh battery that has a solar roof to top up the traction battery would be ideal. You could do the hybrid assist in the rear wheels and keep the rest of the drive train disconnected from that and up front making an AWD minivan without the need for a transmission tunnel while likely being able to retain the features of a minivan like folding seats. Since a 1 square meter solar panel probably won't get more than 5kwh in any given day you have a nice passive system that self tops up the traction battery but otherwise works like a regular hybrid.
@@SnerdlesMy parents had a Chrysler minivan back in the early 2000's before "stow-n-go" was a thing; the seats didn't fold into the floor, but instead could be removed. It seems like a novel concept now but I wouldn't be against the idea of having to remove the seats instead of folding them into the floor. Or hey, another idea is to take a page from the Honda Element and just have the seats fold up to the walls!
the super low location of the turn indicators should be illegal. They are invisible in traffic.
Absolutely agree
I rented the entry level Carnival and it's quick.. I own the Sedona and i can say the 1rst and 2nd row seats were bigger plus the door storages and center console storage was massive in comparison which would helped the practicality of the Carnival if they kept it as before.. they even took away the cigarette lighter on the lower console storage which is unfortunate if anyone uses tire inflaters or radar dectors, just one at the back isn't enough..
@24:45 Alex talks about the ability to remote start a Pacifica Plug-In Hybrid while its in the garage "without gassing oneself to death". While technically true, the PacHy rarely (if ever) preheats itself without turning the engine on. The battery just doesn't output the necessary power.
I got a Sienna XSE 2022 and honestly.... Felt cheap like hell and on the highway the 4 cylinder is tiring. The only good thing is the AWD and fuel economy in the city because the highway it's not that crazy
You only just now figured out that Toyotas are cheap and poorly made lol.
How reliable is the Kia Carnival?@@naveenthemachine
@@LuisUrbietawith its v6 and 8 speed and a long warranty it should be fine. If you keep up with the maintenance you’ll be fine
@naveenthemachine Kia has been having a metric shit ton of recalls for their engines which seem to catch fire
@@naveenthemachine Thanks a lot.
great video, plenty of info. 4k, no flashy fast talking just facts and info straight forward. keep doing your thing!
I've never owned a van, but they make perfect sense for families. More sense than SUVs. I wish families would gain their common sense back and go back to buying vans that better fit their needs. As far as vans go, I think it's a genuinely great-looking vehicle. I love the clean, handsome face. I like the sleek taillight bar on the rear. The refreshed Carnival coming out soon is a step down on the looks. It looks like a generic SUV at the front. Not even a particularly good-looking SUV.
Korea invented a new type of car: The full-sized SUV/Van crossover.
It is NOT a "minivan" at all. It's a Carnival! And the Carnival rocks!
You have no idea how popular these are in Korea - they are all over the place and they look amazing.
You can even get a conformal roof box fitted, if you want to carry huge amounts of luggage. Weirdly, they don't look awful!
The problem is that the new Santa Fe looks amazing. And the Palisade looks incredible. And the GV90 looks stunning...
Edit: Basic Black wheels are perfect, because brake dust is black, and people are lazy about cleaning wheels.
Edir 2: Korean domestic models (KDM?) get a much nicer rear door light bar in the '24 model.
KIA needs to fix the second row seat rails from getting extremely hot when the car is idling or at a stand still. Several owners reported this issue on a KIA forum. One owners daughter burned her foot on the rail it was so hot.
What!?! That’s wild. Should probably threaten them with a lawsuit…
The magic slide seats + sliding doors is the function we’ve been missing. This is the most practical platform for convenience.
The King of Auto Reviews. I salute you. 🙋♂
Alex, When it comes to minivans imitating CUVs, I think the Chevy Uplander will take some beating. 😉
This is definitely a contender for when my current minivan eventually dies. It's cool that the middle seats can slide up like that. It would suck if they can't be removed tho.
I do hate that they gave it an SUV console. That space between front seats is super useful.
People who have to feel they're driving an SUV to drive a minivan are ridiculous. Especially when large and even mid sized SUVs look and drive like minivans anyway lol.
Alex, what are your thoughts about the reliability of the Pacifica plug-in hybrid? Consumer Reports rates it very poorly.
This is THEE most detailed and helpful review that I've found. I know exactly where to go for all auto reviews now. TYSM!! Subscribed and liked ✨️
We bought a plug in pacifica hybrid select trim with the unconnect theater group it was $57,000 but will the tax credit and dealer discount we paid $45,000
I loved our pacifica hybrid, the only issue i had was we needed 3 seats across in the 2nd row with 3 kids. The recalls are worrying but that plug in hybrid got me 54mpg on average and only need to gas up once every couple months. Loved it. It depreciates like a rock though. Bought for 47 and sold for 31k 2 years later
@bigby6023 we have four kids and it works great so far. We fill up about once a month. My wife loves the roomy and looks. We haven't had any issues so far and plan to keep it till the kids graduate. I have a sorento hybrid and it's great too no plug but get 35 Mpg and fits the kids
So far, love my 2021 Pacifica PHEV, vast percentage of usage is battery only, but love the long road trips with the v6. No issues other than the recall which was performed.
I still can't forgive them for how little storage there is in the driver's area. No pass-through underneath the center console is a big whiff. No sunglasses holder. Shallow bottle holders in the doors. And Kia didn't fix any of those issues on the 2025 refresh.
There's a ton to like about the Carnival for all passengers, but I'd see myself being annoyed if I drove one regularly without having obvious places to put things, as I do have in my Pacifica.
Especially given the fact that mechanical shifters are effectively non existent
Kia's putting all their resources into the ugly-ass Telluride and their other money-makers.
Agreed. That, and the uncomfortable seats, were the main reasons I didn’t buy one. how many van needs a ton of storage and cubbies and this has hardly any.
Should have worn your merch t shirt for this one !
Darn it! Missed opportunity!
How do you all feel about the potential reliability of the Kia Carnival? There were so many missteps in the past by Kia with the Theta engine, fires, easy to steal cars because of no immobilizers, etc. And then there are also potentially greater difficulties with parts availability and dealers with poor reputation.
Thank you!!! I’m glad someone else is paying attention!! I don’t understand why all these car reviewers just talk about design and dimensions without even touching on this company’s terrible past.
Or… well I think I do.. these car channels are all either paid off, or afraid to say anything bad for fear of not being given free cars.
3:24 Agreed 100%, the black wheels should have an option for another color or different design in the upper model.
My 2023 Odyssey is just fan freaking tastic. If they update the dash in 2025 I will upgrade. The powertrain is just amazing. Materials quality inside is actually best in class, just not fancy.
How do people feel about the 1.6? L turbocharged hybrid system that is coming on the 2025 Carnival? I would like the extra efficiency of a hybrid, but I'm worried about the potentially worse reliability with a turbocharger. What have the experiences been with the system and other Hyundai/Kia cars?
This is a great vehicle and I bought it just to have a lot of fun with my family
I have 3 kids
I does not disappoint us all at all
Looks great too
Sad they are redesigning that beautiful front facia
I was expecting the 2025 review.....😢😢😢
I am sooo sad that I have to wait for the 2025 :(
The lack of AWD is a dealbreaker for me. I dig the styling and practicality, but after owning a FWD Sorento there are too many times I’ve gotten front wheel spin even on just wet inclines trying to accelerate into traffic.
I have a Pacifica as one of my cars. Rainy uphill intersections in winter are burnout city
The newly refreshed carnival will have AWD
Hey Alex, you will have to do a another seprate video of upcoming 2025 Kia Carnival mega refresh. Other then Hybrid powertrain, Kia has really did a big refresh on Carnival like new Kia infotainment system, center console redone, tech upgrades, new refresh seats, updated front design and much more... Kia has listened to its customer feedback and Kia is pushing Carnival hard.
Great review!! Thank you!!
Driving dynamics > AWD > Hybrid (fuel efficiency)
Why cant the sienna have a cabin watch camera feature? One thing holding it back
It really depends on the DMV and insurance classified this vehicle as.
Agree but need to improve fuel mileage. Toyota Sienna has done that somehow but government front crash rating needs to improve. Still using a 2001 Honda Odyssey (it did need a transmission rebuild too soon).
Great review Alex👍👍🙂. Also not a fan of the black wheels either 👎
I also am not a fan of black wheels
Way too many shiny gloss plastics .. That's a crime!
This is a thing that's universally hated, but why manufacturers keep doing it?
i like the roads you drove the minivan on. which state is it?
Like the Carnival a lot but definitely would wait for the hybrid. A hybrid AWD would be even better and hopefully that is coming.
I'm torn between the Pacifica PHEV and the Carnival. I'm honestly shocked Kia hasn't released a hybrid version yet, if they can do so for under 40k, I may be a buyer.
Hey, how is the reliability on this? Looks great
Let me give you the short version of minivan buying guide. Toyota Sienna is the only one worth buying, the rest have massive reliability issues. Toyota's hybrid technology is about 5 years ahead of the rest and their AWD system is very reliable. If you are a high earner like Alex and don't care for reliability beyond the first 3 years then you can consider one of the other brands. But if you are like most Americans who are on a tight budget the Sienna is the only choice out there.
Toyota quality has gone down for the Sienna since the 3rd gen. While the drivetrain may be the most reliable of the bunch, other pricey components like the sliding doors, AC/Heater core, and even suspension components are giving up a lot earlier than previous iterations. My neighborhood is covered in minivans and consequently I'll take the fuel hit in my '08 Odyssey over having to repair a sliding door motor every 2 years like my neighbors (3 of them with this problem).
@@Tokamak3.1415 You don't have real problems, just buy a Chrysler and then you will see what real problems look like.
@@goru426Them's fighting words lol. My family has owned 7 Fords and I have friends who have had GM and Chrysler vehicles - I know how horrible UAW made vehicles are. I've driven Pacificas in Hawaii with only 5K miles that felt like the tranny was going to drop out going up and down over every cinder cone on the Big Island.
I was simply stating what many Toyota and Honda fans are well aware of - that the quality has been slipping over the last 15 years. It's to be expected as mode of Toyota's product is made in the US instead of Japan AND Toyota put more emphasis on making their vehicles exciting instead of being the "I drove a Corolla 30K miles with no oil change" they once were. As Rav4 and Highlander are their most popular vehicles their CAFE numbers went down, so they were forced to put turbos and switch all their V-6s to I4s. Naturally the reliability is going to go down just from that. So it may very well be possible that a new Carnival for some users may prove much more reliable than a new Sienna - something that couldn't be said a decade ago between a Sonata and a Corolla.
I was going to buy a Sienna in 2018 to replace my Odyssey but Toyota refused to hybridize it at the time and I saw no plans for a BEV from either Toyota or Honda. Ended up going with a Model X.... ended up being the most reliable vehicle I ever had. Almost 6 years and not a single bit of maintenance - although I will probably have to spray the AC coils because they're getting musty. Still not an issue compared to my neighbor's Siennas or my Acura TLs that went through 11 batteries in 15 years and ended with a class action for the parasitic handsfree module.
I've been surprised that there are a number of things that I liked better about the 14 year old Toyota Sienna that my Carnival is replacing. As noted at about 15 minutes, the cabin storage is terrible. Yes, the console is attractive, but in my Sienna I have room out of sight for a purse and/or trash can where the space is completely wasted in the Kia. The Sienna has a small hook that can pull down for a small trash bag, a drawer under the passenger seat for lint rollers, extra doggy bags, etc., and the tray holds a To Go order securely. The Carnival has one small storage area at the driver's elbow. If I have my purse in the passenger seat to access my wallet, To Go orders end up on the floorboard in danger or toppling over when you make evasive maneuvers or slam on the brakes when another driver decides to make a left turn across three lanes of traffic. I'm very disappointed in the practicality. Besides the Sienna, I had a Plymouth Voyager for 14 years that I loved so I am an unapologetic minivan fan. The seats in the Voyager were more comfy than either the Sienna or Carnival.
Excellent video Alex.
The sienna is a waste you get same amount of practicality as grand highlander 97 cubic ft vs 101
I really like this van. It looks like it would be a great road trip car. Assuming you are not driving.
If Kia figured out how to come out with a AWD PHEV version of the Carnival, I think it would take the sales crown of the minivan market
I wanted to like it, as it would make for a great camping vehicle, but after first looking at the EV9, the Carnival interior looked cheap and really didn't like the dash with that "ribbed" plastic chrome..
Why is that shifter so large?
Another great video love those Kias. But I’m holding out for the four row..
I own a Pacifica and am not impressed with the 2024 limited color options, only black interior, except the Pinnacle which does not have Stow 'n Go seats.
Minivans are so underrated.
Poor Lee Iaccoca, no love for minivans anymore.
1.6 liter turbo? Recipe for disaster
Thank god its optional
In terms of styling and interior, I'd take the Kia over the rest. However, having driven and ridden in them, I'd take the Sienna as a daily. The Sienna was just a more comfortable vehicle overall. The ride was much more softer and luxurious. But dont make the mistake of getting the "sport" trims on the Sienna. The firmer suspension was borderline nausea inducing on long rides.
Looks decent enough. What worries me about it is the engine. 1.6L Turbo carrying a Minivan. Seems like a recipe for disaster. Honestly kia would've been better off keeping the v6 or just turning into an ev.
Alex you're getting leaner man
It's hard to beat the Sienna :)
No it’s very easy to beat the sienna. Like it’s so easy a brainless dolphin can do it 😂
Thats my dream van
Dudes like Dan rather when he says “S”
I LOVE the un-van
WHY does the KIA logo looks just like the Nine Inch Nails logo
I don't think youd ever intend it this way, but not every family dynamic means that everyone has a mom. Biological mother != mom for everyone.
My kids have an egg donor so trust me, I get it, but there's still an ovary in there somewhere...
It would look more convincing with AWD and must have stow away seats like the Grand Caravan used to have
They really should make a AWD offroad version of this
The seats are a circus🎡
No AWD is a joke and non-starter, way better off looking to other brands if 2WD floats your boat.
I will never understand the lack of mechanical AWD in the import minivans. Many people (myself included) ignore and vehicle that is 2WD. AWD is just a necessity in certain parts of NA. I require AWD/4WD because of long, icy/slushy winters. AWD is pretty much a safety feature in my part of the world. I would love to get a minivan for the cargo usability, but I refuse to buy a Chrysler. SUV it is for us AWD people out there.
Mechanical AWD is challenging to achieve and maintain maximum practicality and competitive economy.
Not impossible, but tough.
And if you sell something without competitive fuel economy you're viewed as low tech and old. That brings down your reputation. Even if a stalwart of customers would happily pay the economy tax for real awd.
The pacifica look so stupid and outdated 💯👎😭
Wish they offered it in AWD. Only thing stopping me.
We have one. We don't need to pretend it's an SUV because we know it's not. An SUV would: Have less room. Would be more uncomfortable to drive. Would be more of a gas guzzler. Now the looks of it is nice. The Kia designers actually work for a living compared to ones from Honda and Toyota where they seem to go on vacation as their cars/vans/SUVs looks dated.
🔥🔥🔥👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Will have no problem driving a mini van . It only means you are smarter than the masses who swear by SUVs .From a cargo & practicality perspective in relation to the road footprint ,van mini or not is the only obvious winner.
And yet Honda and Toyota still make a better van lol.
@@MeliorIlle ...but all block access to the rear with huge consoles between the front seats.
Fuel economy is substantially similar between 3-row crossovers and minivans. Carnival and telluride are the same MPG. Highlander hybrid and Sienna hybrid are the same MPG. Odyssey and Pilot are the same MPG. Definitely beats full-sized SUVs like the V8 Tahoe and Suburban though.
Drinking game - take a shot everytime Alex mentions Grand Highlander
I own a 2021 Pacifica. Terrible quality vehicle for a top end trim. So far, the hoses for the washer fluid have just detatched themselves, using the 3rd row seat stowing function pulls the carpet out of the trunk, and although the dealer will fix it, it's a design flaw that keeps happening. Also, during the first winter with the Pacifica, opening the power door while it was icy out caused the door to rip a piece of the chrome window trim completely off. It's comically bad. When the 2025 hybrid carnival comes out, I'm getting that, unless I can afford the EV9.
Interior is great on this. Unfortunately for Kia, I think the general public are brainwashed to think you have to have awd if you want to be able to move if the wind is blowing so the lack of awd will hurt sales a little. It is nice that it is priced very well
Best review of the Grand highlander yet !
Lol
7:27-7:30 should be in Alex's blooper reel!
We love renting Pacifica's on vacations. We fill the 2nd row storage compartments. Plenty of power when hauling a full load. Like the styling of the Carnival, wish we could rent one. Great review
You missed the chance to put the song ‘Carnival by ¥$ on the radio🙂
everyone has a mom. A controversial statement in the crazy woke world we live in now
I love the minivan formula. I only wish this one would offer AWD. Alas, no. For AWD you have to move to Telluride which, let's be frank, is a Carnival dressed to look like an SUV.
AWD is overrated. It’s only been commonly available for the last 30 years. We all happily lived without it for the first 80 years of driving.
@@alliejr I slipped in my minivan too often, even in warm weather while stopping up the hill, not to mention winter ice on my driveway or on the way to shops, to not want AWD.
@@zdzislawmeglicki2262 Agreed. I've lived in cold climates my entire life (and still do) and driven all kinds of vehicles with all kinds of drivetrains in all kinds of winter weather, and when it comes to winter driving safety - specifically, the ability to turn on snow and ice - there is no comparison. The handling characteristics of AWD vehicles are just safer, period. Especially if the driver doesn't know how to correct under/oversteer with throttle or handbrake. RWD is unstable and prone to snap oversteer, FWD tends to understeer as soon as even one tire loses grip, which when turning on snow is basically always. Obviously, good tires are priority #1, but for me and for a lot of people in my region, AWD is non-negotiable. It's wild that in 2024 people would say AWD is overrated. To me, it's like saying seatbelts and traction control are overrated.
The Toyota sienna has an AWD option, it’s also a hybrid, and it’s a Toyota so the company actually makes a reliable car with low cost maintenance, and they build their cars ethically too.
@@Where2bub Toyota's is an e-AWD. While better than nothing it's not as reliable as a fully mechanical drive, which you get, e.g., in Honda CR-V. But that's not a minivan, sadly.
Best looking minvan hands down but is missing a BIG factor in snow country of course...AWD!!! offer it as an option at least...Toyota is eating your lunch and dinner KIA...
I like this front design better than the upcoming 2025. It looks more premium & classy. I hate the upcoming one, it's trying too hard to look tough. Tired of seeing the brawny SUV look.
You need to put the inches for their lengths on your ‘Size’ chart. Just having the names on a line is misleading, as an inch or two difference in length does not make a difference to 9 out of 10 people.
I commented this in the past, but just like manufacturers are not listening to YT reviewers, YT reviewers are not listening to their viewers 😢😂
Well great your own channel and design the content as you see fit
PHEV is a good idea for a minivan. Unfortunately, the only PHEV minivan available is the Chrysler's Pacifica hybrid, which is notorious for its fragile transmission. So when you compare the Pacifica with Carnival at the end of the video, it might be a good idea to add the reliability.
Mechanically the Pacifica’s hybrid transmission has been reliable, it’s been some electrical connectors that have failed. Bear in mind the Pacifica’s hybrid transmission is manufactured by Aisin which is a semi-subsidiary of Toyota and the same company that makes all Toyota’s hybrid transmissions. We don’t know true failure rates so it’s not really possible to compare. Recalls don’t equal failures.
No AWD, so no way this can take place of an suv.
It's a great minivan, has all the potential to complete with the Japanese but the dealers are too greedy. I walked into a dealership last year they want $12k above MSRP and a wait of at least 3 months. I end up driving home in a new odyssey. Then i heard about they engine problem.
I live in a Rural area and with 2 youngster or more family it's just more practical, as we travel either heavy, fast and or long distances, mostly highway lots of mountainous terrain and can have 5 people seated with tons of cargo options, 9 check in luggage with stroller and car seat not a problem, a new dryer easy just throw it in.. plus i like the V6 for towing or if traveling heavy as way more engine braking plus at higher speeds on a long drive the fuel economy gets very comparable to rest
Kia really knocked this mimi van out of the park
It is a well designed Kia. It actually offers more utility than many also-SUVs.
Both my 2 cars that I currently drive - 2021 Pacifica Hybrid and 2023 Bolt EUV - were bought after watching Alex's videos. That's about $85,000 worth decisions made through Alex. Car companies should give Alex a cut instead of their dealership salesmen.
Aww, thanks!
"Just don't call it a Fiesta" 😂😂😂
OMG, enough with that ugly useless chrome on the C pillars. At least delete it for the United States. Otherwise it’s a handsome mini van.
bruh you didnt update combined leg row for 3rd row
We almost bought one 2 years ago until we couldn’t find a dealer without a stupid markup. Bought a travers instead.
I was looking at the new kiA carnival. The 2nd row space is amazing, but the way those rear seats and pop back is def another bonus.