Who's going to create the first Jr. Grass/Dirt Drag Special, though? ......I keep screaming about a v-twin blown with an Eaton M24, from a Lectron, set up by Lectron, exactly for the job. Could visit Lectron.... set up the carb.... good for an entire episode! 😉
Make an expansion chamber intake, give it some volume for the mixture to distribute better, the chamber will also act as a small reserve allowing even flow into which ever valve happens to be open.
@@kalebmorrill on boosted boiz shoppin cart purpose of their plenum is to smooth out boost level due to single cylinder engine But yes this would benefit greatly from plenum and efi system
What kind of oil are you using? Maybe it’s time to upgrade to a better racing oil Now I understand why my cousin changed his every time he started his drag car seeing that mud that came out of it
Love seeing the dyno guys take this about as serious as you can. You would think they were working on a several thousand horsepower dragster getting ready for an NHRA event. Love the content!
Maybe a log style manifold would be a better option also will work as a "boost capacitor" or a small intercooler mounted lower than the heads in front of the flywheel would act as a catch can. Just couple ideas fellas 🤘 keep up the awesome work!
You should make a temporary intake that is see-through so you can see the flow of the fuel after it leaves the Turbo and then add in baffles as needed to direct air mixture evenly
This has been probably my favorite build. So glad you took it down from the rafters and started working on it again. It deserves to be continued. Looks classic old school, for instance. In the clips of where it is in the shop and you do a quick start and drive it out of the shop. When you let off the throttle, it bounces. Just like the classic front engine rail dragsters of yesteryear. The abuse (hard running) this motor has seen so far, is a testament to the build so far. Well done gentlemen, and it's not done yet. Think how that chassis, which was designed and built on your parents garage floor has held up. Very grateful that you were able to get the Dyno time. It enabled you to do/check things you can't in your shop. And you had the benefit of a couple other motor heads putting in their input. In terms of learning as you go, sometimes it is just a little, sometimes it is in leaps and bounds, this was a leaps and bounds day. Thanks for not falling to the pressure of putting the Ducati motor on this rail. Anyone can figure how to bolt a motorcycle engine to a go cart rail dragster. I doubt you will see many 670 V-twin builds on the planet like this one. Be the ones to figure it out. You get closer every day.
it’s crazy how ive watched this channel for 6 years and watching all of these builds change over time, love your channel guys can’t wait to see everything you guys do
Man I have to tell you I love this rail. I had this engine in a whole house generator. It ran flawlessly. When I bought a propane whole house, this unit sold so fast I had forgotten that I had had it! 😊
I hope you can eventually find a workable EFI system or something that y’all can easily work out. At about half power and getting some really good numbers, I cannot wait to see it bust 80hp or maybe 90hp on the dyno!! Then you can crank up the boost and see what’s up. Killer video!! I luv when y’all are just off the hip with content!!
I feel like you guys have found the limits of the draw thru carburetor. Efi is needed at this point, and will make life much easier in the process. Keep up the good work.
I like the fact you are actually developing a machine toward its full potential. You guys are racers! And do you know what racers need more than anything else? Good food. Racetrack can be really terrible for you. Go Factor!
Before I even start watching I want to give massive props to whomever edited that exhaust flame in the thumbnail. EDIT: I'm dumb. I honestly thought it was a kind of craptacular edit, I didn't think it would be real.
Fuel Tech will make you an EFI kit for the drag rail. They just put a kit together for the boosted boiz turbo single cylinder shopping go kart and it works great. I guarentee they'd work with your channel.
Good work guys i would suggest building a decent volume plenum which will take the hard pulsing out of the intake. Currently every time an intake valve opens the intake pressure will drop considerably causing less cylinder fill, with a large plenum there will be alot more compressed air sitting there ready to flow into the cylinder giving more power and hopefully even cylinder filling
Running under forced induction, I would consider pushing boost into a common manifold and routing equal length runners to ITBs. EFI would make tuning fairly easy, but an off-the-shelf kit you probably won't find. On that note, with a full standalone, you could probably turn some heads at Holley or AEM to do a one-off custom project, they like to jump all over this kind of stuff. One other name to throw out, Chris Moore does world record-type motorcycle drag racing and has a shop that does tuning. Even if he can't to the work himself, he can definitely point you in the right direction! Add: Last idea, though they are a bit of hassle to get set up right, is mechanical fuel injection. Hilborn is the go-to place on that front. If all you're doing is racing, it's about the perfect application in hybrids between carbs and FI, as they tend to work best running towards WOT.
The centrifugal force in the compressor turbine is pushing the fuel to the outside of the compressor housing and probably dribbling down that side of the intake (if the compressor outlet is pointing down). Maybe use a clear tube and dye in the fuel to verify???
I know with race cars that are boosted and running meth it takes a lot more spark energy to run well, you might need hotter coils or better ignition setup to keep those plugs lit under meth/boost conditions.
They should ditch the belt drive and go chain drive while its on the dyno. All they're measuring is engine HP and TQ anyway. The belt drive just complicates the gear calculation for a dyno, since there is no definitive ratio; its continuously variable. Then once the dyno session is over, reinstall the belt drive and tune the driver/driven at the track.
@@majorrev8690 thats a thought, only problem is the starting and stoping the engine without a clutch. Cvt is good but you want to know your power/torque curve to match the slippage/engagement to the optimal torque peek to horsepower peek to mph.
@@REDLINEBECKONZ They'd need a clutch, I agree. That probably pushes my idea out the window since a chain drive clutch swap just for dyno pulls might not be in their budget. I think we all know they will figure it out, but I also know we all want to see progress and not baby steps.
If you are trying to work through the engines issues - put the engine on the Dyno, not a chassis dyno. Put it on the engine dyno with an adapter to have the CVT drive clutch and belt drive a static size pully feeding the Dyno. Entering the chassis and driven clutch into the equation presents too many variables to understand what the engine is doing.
That issue is were fuel injection does come in to play with issue like that u almost need a flow bench to help in figuring out how to design the intake. Keep up hard work and everyone have a wonderful day.
Sometimes all one can do, is trial and error. You will get it and it's going to be sooo much fun. It's already impressive and it's not even running right, lol. It is exciting to watch you guys making headway.
Nice to see you set it up "climbing" the dyno roller. I see a lot of dyno operators set up the opposite with the tires digging in on the front side of the dyno. I had the chance to do a ton of dyno runs when I was in school and we found that digging in on the front side of the roller can cost 5% hp and torque. The downside to climbing the roller is you can spin easier.
I've said it to Rather-B-Welding when he'd doubted himself on a past project. But this right here is exactly what R&D is. The only difference is you guys are using it to solve a running problem that's preventing you from gaining more power because the engine starts to act up. You're researching what the cause of your issue is and once it's found you're going to develop a fix to it. Big companies pay big money to engineers and technicians all day everyday to research potential problems and to develop fixes to new products before they hit the market. :)
Please please please focus on this build!!! The potential is there, and I love the troubleshooting and diagnostic process especially with Ike and the guys from the school (I assume) even if you have to do a separate 'in depth' channel, or playlist, please keep us up to date with the process.
Love love LOVE the Rail ! Never really watched drag racing but to watch the rail from the beginning it’s becoming a series in its own right ! Keep it up and stay safe 👍
ITB's or each cylinder gets it's own carb. I know it sounds extreme, but It would really help with the tuning. Plus it will help the turbo flow better in the higher rpm's. It would be worth looking in to. Its still a beast
I think a good electronic ignition system would go a long way here guys. I’m not knowledgeable on boosted intakes. I feel like a plenum style air box on the intake would allow for a less directional air flow but I’m not sure if that would defeat the boost…
It is a nice project. And it makes a lot of sense to do accurate measurements with the help from other experienced people who do engine tuning on a daily bases. At the end of the day that will save you money and it will give you the least problems and the best results.
@CarsandCameras I can't help anyone if they don't listen but you still need to tune to gasoline afr's unless you have a methanol programed wb controller. Watching it idle with the gauge pegged rich it's no surprise there is fuel running out the exhaust. If you are interested we can talk, carb or efi this is what I do every day. Just fyi that gas afr of 7 means that your methanol afr is 3.
100% worth making a plenum. The manifold you have is great for NA but for boost it’s being pushed where the turbo wants it to go. A plenum chamber with the boost aimed at the back wall of the chamber and not into the intake runners will give it chance to mix better and take the route the engine wants it to. If you look at WRC car intake manifolds they do a similar thing. Very small thin intake across the whole width of the plenum and not aiming directly at the intake runners.
I've only watched a few of your episodes fellas. And they were early ones. I'm a 49yr old hmmm...."newbie" at no prep drag racing. I did the whole street thing years ago just playing around. We thought a semi stock foxbody 5.0 mustang was fast, and firebird, camaros etc. The whole new style turbo thing that has just kept getting more and more efficient, adaptable, and the power they can make on almost anything is unbelievable. I wasn't surprised when I saw you guys putting one on that rail, but now hearing that yr running it on methanol and it's making over 100ft lbs of torque?!?!?!?!?!. Good lord. The potential that you still have locked away in that thing is almost unthinkable. 2 cylinders and what? 670cc? That thing like shames some Harley engines as far as power. I think I'm going to continue to watch and see what you guys come up with. I do wonder though what could be done to things like camshaft profiles, beefier rotating assembly and fuel delivery systems to make even more power. Imagine the day where you'll have to do a smoky burnout or use tire conditioner and stuff to make sure traction isn't a issue. There has to be some point where the torque and HP reach that stage, or have I missed you having to address it already? I race hardtire no prep. We are constantly trying to overcome how to put power to the ground without slicks or drag radials. The theories and blends of prep and tire combos are endless..
Ike and John, when tuning on Alcohol, you look at how much cad plating burned. It starts on the ground strap and you can get down to the first thread safely so long as you still see soot. If your plugs look washed and there’s no signs of any heat, you need to take a little fuel away.
really awesome video. those dyno guys were great helping you figure that t hing out. cant wait to see her ripping good. lowere HP than Torque just means you haven't got your revs up yet. once you get the intake evened out you can work on the revs maybe.
On the intake redesign, try running 2 individual pipes all the way up. Joining at the turbo flange. And when you look in from the turbo side, there's a divider, splitting it 50/50. Make the divider out of flat metal, allowing you to "tune" the percentage by slightly moving the divider to reduce or increase the split. For instance. One cylinder running lean? Bend the divider to give it more than 50%. Something like 55/45 split. Ect.
Love the channel and love the dragster project but a quick FYI methanol won't foul a spark plug you can actually run them rich until it hydrolocks .... keep on keeping on
Glad you see that you have a good place to take it for these runs. These guys really seem like they know their stuff. Good luck with the new intake design.
U can test waste gate spring by applying air to it with a boost gauge teed in slowly apply air pressure and u will see the pressure start to go up and as the rod starts to move see what pressure it opens at will be close if u have good flow and not getting boost creep when engine is making boost
Yes you can never pay enough attention to Manifold design Natural or blown manifold is hyper important to get right looking good and nice numbers should be very interesting when you get those manifolds sorted . keep up the good work
you know, bosch had a MECHANICAL fuel injection for like 15 years in all kinds of cars, including those volvos that isaac loves........ just saying........... and before people show up to complain about the CIS bosch injection, ive rebuilt several dozen of them and they all perform amazing. ive owned 6 of them as daily drivers for over 20 years and none of them has ever failed outside of a pump dying.
You could weld little wing inside the intake , to induce swirl, in the tubing possibly cut a slightly angled slit around the tubing at 22°-30° I don't think id go as far as 45°, They used to make inserts for car intakes that induced swirl, this calls for something much smaller, but I'd study the whole system as it is first, maybe take it apart, and paint the inside with ink, or dye chem, so it can be washed off by the fuel, showing better what's happening, then attempt to fix the problem before trying to many things, they also sold gaskets with a metallic screen mesh between. Two gaskets , to help atomize that flll0
Hey Isaac and John and Charles keep it up you'll get even if you have to put one carburetor on each cylinder you'll get it don't give up love watching your videos
Think about using a sheet metal "divider" in the larger intake tube from the outlet face of the turbo- to keep the flow even -all the way to where the intake splits off to each cylinder. Raising the idle speed keeps flow moving faster to prevent fuel separating. Jr.Dragsters with huge alcohol carburetors idle at 3800 -4400 RPM-not feasible on your big block twin, but you get the idea.
over 10hp per liter is no joke! Still, I think it's time for a micro squirt. Small fuel rail with injector bungs that point the fuel at the intake valves and you'll never worry about fuel distribution again!
Man I really feel for you guys. I can't wait for you to get it running how you want and be able to tear down the drag strip at lightning speed!!! Great that you found the fault with the fuel distribution, onward and upward 👍👍👍
Back in the 80's, when Briggs first came out with their "boxer" twin cylinder engine, there were problems getting both cylinders to run equally, especially at idle. They even came out with a intake elbow with a metal divider in the bore to try and help this. I got out of small engine repair in 1986, so fast forward to the V twin engines, low an behold they have a two barrel carb, each cylinder having it's own barrel. So it could be your engine is getting a different afr to each side. Maybe put two afr gauges on it to see what they read? Just my 2 cents worth!
Looking forward to seeing the rail rip down the dragstrip once you get all the gremlins worked out of the fuel system. It's been an amazing adventure following this build to its current rendition, hopefully we will be seeing another build project soon?
I wonder about splitting up the 2 cylinders and doing individual carbs with blow thru design You could even do individual efi throttle bodies Still shows lots of promise Enjoying the updates
There was a PowerNation episode featuring one of the head engineers at Esslinger performance where they bult a ford 2.3L i4 for racing. Because those racing engines are carbuerated they experienced a similar problem to this and it was solved by trial-and-erroring different shaped baffles in the intake manifold. This seems like a similar problem, and maybe something like that would help. It's stragne how airflow patterns work.
wat you could try is making a mostly straight intake using , those trumpet style intake runners , and put a log manifold over it to equalize the pressure over those two trumpet intakes , another thing that might happen is that the centrifugal force of the compressor pushes the atomised fuel out of the air slams it against the turbo housing where it puddles and get ingested mostly by the front cilinder, you need to see wat path of the intake the outside of the turbos compressor housing is pooring intoo , to solve that you might have to make the carb intoo a blow through setup...............or go to injection
I'd like to see y'all experiment with smaller diameter and narrower rear tires. Unless you really need the width of the tires you're running, you might find your rail's quicker with less weight to spin. I see several areas that could be tweaked for quicker times. I'll just leave this one hint 9about the tires) here and wait to see if you decide to experiment in the other areas.
MicroSquirt FI can fire 2 injectors, so get a couple sized for a 340cc cylinder or maybe a 600cc cylinder to account for the Methanol and sync the injection to fire as the intake valve closes. I did that for another 670 back a few years ago, but I don't know if the current software supports that. I know the old software would allow for independent injector control, but you had to fiddle with the injector table.
Hey in my country we have a tecnic on weak coil we call it grounding basically you just cover the ignition coil wire with wire and connect it to battery and the other one is on the ground of the coil
Reading a alcohol tune-up using spark plugs is different than reading a gasoline tune-up on spark plugs. First major difference for alcohol is that you do not read the color off the porcelain around the center electrode. Air to fuel ratios within the combustion chamber are going to be read by the appearance of the metal base ring at the end of the threaded area of the plugs and the color of the first three threads of the spark plugs. The amount of ignition advance is still read as with gasoline plugs by the blue line on the plugs ground strap or sometimes referred to as the ground electrode.
A wooden gokart with a wooden body and frame with a motor would be cool. and a full size truck but powered with a 420cc or a 999cc sounds dope I'd like to see that
If you can find and install a old car magneto it will help to give the engine enough spark to help burn the methanol it's the same reason dragsters run magnetos colder fuel needs a hotter spark. I have a really good magneto in the attic but I am to disabled to dig it up for you guys. If I can get the kid to dig it up for me I will send it your way . but any decent magneto will work if it's set up right. it won't help with the fuel problem but a longer runner with built in baffles will take care of that by making the fuel mix with the air better
Y’all have been entertaining EFI. What about MFI? Snag a small VE pump from the junkyard. Run the pump off a small 30 or smaller series chain from the flywheel side of the engine. Use pintle injectors in your intake tubing. You would need to start adding two stroke oil to your fuel to lubricate the pump and injectors though.
16:50 perhaps some sort of diffuser in the intake manifold collector could help mix and regulate the AFR to each cylinder. I forget what carb'd v twin had this but they chopped up the air/fuel just down stream of the carb to better regulate each cylinders AFR just before the individual plenums.
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Let us know when it needs some mud tires and suspension 🎉
A colab between y'all would be sick 🤘😎
that’d make it so much better even just suspension would
I can only imagine what Ethan would do to that thing
@@savageclown5457 not really. Drag rails don’t have suspension, the frame and sidewall flex is all they need.
Who's going to create the first Jr. Grass/Dirt Drag Special, though? ......I keep screaming about a v-twin blown with an Eaton M24, from a Lectron, set up by Lectron, exactly for the job. Could visit Lectron.... set up the carb.... good for an entire episode! 😉
Make an expansion chamber intake, give it some volume for the mixture to distribute better, the chamber will also act as a small reserve allowing even flow into which ever valve happens to be open.
or even a small plenum and runners off that
Exactly this^
Boostedboiz did this with there shopping cart shifter cart
@@kalebmorrill on boosted boiz shoppin cart purpose of their plenum is to smooth out boost level due to single cylinder engine
But yes this would benefit greatly from plenum and efi system
What kind of oil are you using? Maybe it’s time to upgrade to a better racing oil
Now I understand why my cousin changed his every time he started his drag car seeing that mud that came out of it
Love seeing the dyno guys take this about as serious as you can. You would think they were working on a several thousand horsepower dragster getting ready for an NHRA event. Love the content!
The principle is the same, trying to squeeze as much out of the system as physically possible but with creating a bomb...
Yeah except they're all eating mushrooms and tripping thier faces off....
This machine is one of the best builds you’ve done. Interesting stuff
@@jasonbirch1182 nothing wrong with that.
A gear heads a gear head, once they see a turbo and hear that rumble, plus the rail looks the part
We didn’t accomplish what we hoped, but we diagnosed an important issue at the dyno!
It sound extremely rich at idle, just try leaning out the idle mixture and possibly go for the next hotter plug range.
Keep going till the block can’t handle anymore then find a way to make it handle more you guys are on to something cool here
Maybe a log style manifold would be a better option also will work as a "boost capacitor" or a small intercooler mounted lower than the heads in front of the flywheel would act as a catch can. Just couple ideas fellas 🤘 keep up the awesome work!
How much does this machine weigh?
You should make a temporary intake that is see-through so you can see the flow of the fuel after it leaves the Turbo and then add in baffles as needed to direct air mixture evenly
Everytime I see the green in the thumbnail I get excited. Thanks for keeping us updated.
This has been probably my favorite build.
So glad you took it down from the rafters and started working on it again. It deserves to be continued.
Looks classic old school, for instance.
In the clips of where it is in the shop and you do a quick start and drive it out of the shop.
When you let off the throttle, it bounces. Just like the classic front engine rail dragsters of yesteryear.
The abuse (hard running) this motor has seen so far, is a testament to the build so far.
Well done gentlemen, and it's not done yet.
Think how that chassis, which was designed and built on your parents garage floor has held up.
Very grateful that you were able to get the Dyno time. It enabled you to do/check things you can't in your shop. And you had the benefit of a couple other motor heads putting in their input.
In terms of learning as you go, sometimes it is just a little, sometimes it is in leaps and bounds, this was a leaps and bounds day.
Thanks for not falling to the pressure of putting the Ducati motor on this rail.
Anyone can figure how to bolt a motorcycle engine to a go cart rail dragster.
I doubt you will see many 670 V-twin builds on the planet like this one.
Be the ones to figure it out. You get closer every day.
Super thoughtful comment. Thanks so much for staying tuned brushy bill
it’s crazy how ive watched this channel for 6 years and watching all of these builds change over time, love your channel guys can’t wait to see everything you guys do
They started with go-karts and still do go karts, but Godzilla go karts lol I love it
Seeing that garage behind you in the intro is nostalgia at its finest. You're OG fans are still here!!
Maybe try running a exhaust crank case vacuum, "pan evac" to keep the rings seated and pull the moisture in the blow by out.
I love that during the promotion Ike is solely focused on his food and enjoying life
Man I have to tell you I love this rail. I had this engine in a whole house generator. It ran flawlessly. When I bought a propane whole house, this unit sold so fast I had forgotten that I had had it! 😊
I hope you can eventually find a workable EFI system or something that y’all can easily work out. At about half power and getting some really good numbers, I cannot wait to see it bust 80hp or maybe 90hp on the dyno!! Then you can crank up the boost and see what’s up. Killer video!! I luv when y’all are just off the hip with content!!
We have a few irons in the fire😉
I feel like you guys have found the limits of the draw thru carburetor. Efi is needed at this point, and will make life much easier in the process. Keep up the good work.
Fuel tech -boosted boiz shopping kart runs off a fuel tech and its awesome 😎
Rusefi has run single and twin cylinder engines
Fuel tech will work perfectly
Twin turbo would be awesome. You guys are reaching unexplored territory with what a 670 is capable of.
I like the fact you are actually developing a machine toward its full potential. You guys are racers! And do you know what racers need more than anything else? Good food. Racetrack can be really terrible for you. Go Factor!
I love this rail build!! I found it during forced downtime due to a back injury, and I'm fixed and I love watching this getting fixed!!
Before I even start watching I want to give massive props to whomever edited that exhaust flame in the thumbnail.
EDIT: I'm dumb. I honestly thought it was a kind of craptacular edit, I didn't think it would be real.
Fuel Tech will make you an EFI kit for the drag rail. They just put a kit together for the boosted boiz turbo single cylinder shopping go kart and it works great. I guarentee they'd work with your channel.
I can't wait to see how this all turns out. Keep plugging away guys!!
When noone else has new videos and cars and camera's just put one up. Thanks guys 🤟
I'd watch this first anyway. That rail is awesome.
This Old Man from Washington NC really pulling for y'all 👍. You never give up. I got faith you will be satisfied soon. Love your videos. 🛵🧔💝💝💝
Very professional guys! You are clearly heading in the right direction. 100 HP just around the corner!!
Good work guys i would suggest building a decent volume plenum which will take the hard pulsing out of the intake. Currently every time an intake valve opens the intake pressure will drop considerably causing less cylinder fill, with a large plenum there will be alot more compressed air sitting there ready to flow into the cylinder giving more power and hopefully even cylinder filling
Running under forced induction, I would consider pushing boost into a common manifold and routing equal length runners to ITBs. EFI would make tuning fairly easy, but an off-the-shelf kit you probably won't find. On that note, with a full standalone, you could probably turn some heads at Holley or AEM to do a one-off custom project, they like to jump all over this kind of stuff. One other name to throw out, Chris Moore does world record-type motorcycle drag racing and has a shop that does tuning. Even if he can't to the work himself, he can definitely point you in the right direction!
Add: Last idea, though they are a bit of hassle to get set up right, is mechanical fuel injection. Hilborn is the go-to place on that front. If all you're doing is racing, it's about the perfect application in hybrids between carbs and FI, as they tend to work best running towards WOT.
The centrifugal force in the compressor turbine is pushing the fuel to the outside of the compressor housing and probably dribbling down that side of the intake (if the compressor outlet is pointing down). Maybe use a clear tube and dye in the fuel to verify???
70+HP is quite the boost from stock! Keep at it, and I'm sure you will get it. Looking fwd to it.
the fact it made 70+ with a dead cylinder though. that's shocking
Always a learning curve , you and your crew will get it dialed in .
That is awesome specs for a “lawnmower” engine…you guys are on the right track for sure!
You got this! I hope for 100hp and 120tq. Of course, more is better 🙂
I know with race cars that are boosted and running meth it takes a lot more spark energy to run well, you might need hotter coils or better ignition setup to keep those plugs lit under meth/boost conditions.
Larger battery and some high voltage coils may help. Very cool project!
Awesome job guys. This is my favorite build so far. I can’t wait for the moon tune, it’ll be great.
I’ve been watching your channel for the last 6-7years and love seeing how everything evolved for 50$ barn carts to this!!!
I love this rail. I've had fast cars galore, but this interests me far more.
Factor, "the ultimate TV dinner" i dig it, gonna try some. Perfect for a bachelor or single dad.
You should try to have a really low stall just for the dyno so you can have constant load on most of the rpm and have a curve to analyze.
They should ditch the belt drive and go chain drive while its on the dyno. All they're measuring is engine HP and TQ anyway. The belt drive just complicates the gear calculation for a dyno, since there is no definitive ratio; its continuously variable. Then once the dyno session is over, reinstall the belt drive and tune the driver/driven at the track.
@@majorrev8690 thats a thought, only problem is the starting and stoping the engine without a clutch. Cvt is good but you want to know your power/torque curve to match the slippage/engagement to the optimal torque peek to horsepower peek to mph.
@@REDLINEBECKONZ They'd need a clutch, I agree. That probably pushes my idea out the window since a chain drive clutch swap just for dyno pulls might not be in their budget. I think we all know they will figure it out, but I also know we all want to see progress and not baby steps.
If you are trying to work through the engines issues - put the engine on the Dyno, not a chassis dyno. Put it on the engine dyno with an adapter to have the CVT drive clutch and belt drive a static size pully feeding the Dyno. Entering the chassis and driven clutch into the equation presents too many variables to understand what the engine is doing.
That issue is were fuel injection does come in to play with issue like that u almost need a flow bench to help in figuring out how to design the intake. Keep up hard work and everyone have a wonderful day.
Sometimes all one can do, is trial and error. You will get it and it's going to be sooo much fun. It's already impressive and it's not even running right, lol. It is exciting to watch you guys making headway.
Nice to see you set it up "climbing" the dyno roller. I see a lot of dyno operators set up the opposite with the tires digging in on the front side of the dyno. I had the chance to do a ton of dyno runs when I was in school and we found that digging in on the front side of the roller can cost 5% hp and torque. The downside to climbing the roller is you can spin easier.
I've said it to Rather-B-Welding when he'd doubted himself on a past project. But this right here is exactly what R&D is. The only difference is you guys are using it to solve a running problem that's preventing you from gaining more power because the engine starts to act up. You're researching what the cause of your issue is and once it's found you're going to develop a fix to it. Big companies pay big money to engineers and technicians all day everyday to research potential problems and to develop fixes to new products before they hit the market. :)
Please please please focus on this build!!! The potential is there, and I love the troubleshooting and diagnostic process especially with Ike and the guys from the school (I assume) even if you have to do a separate 'in depth' channel, or playlist, please keep us up to date with the process.
Love love LOVE the Rail ! Never really watched drag racing but to watch the rail from the beginning it’s becoming a series in its own right ! Keep it up and stay safe 👍
ITB's or each cylinder gets it's own carb. I know it sounds extreme, but It would really help with the tuning. Plus it will help the turbo flow better in the higher rpm's. It would be worth looking in to. Its still a beast
In the racing lawnmower world many run twin carbs on v-twins. It only makes sense lol.
Spare no expense on spark plug, Platinum or Iridium are a must with the good go juices...
I think a good electronic ignition system would go a long way here guys. I’m not knowledgeable on boosted intakes. I feel like a plenum style air box on the intake would allow for a less directional air flow but I’m not sure if that would defeat the boost…
It is a nice project. And it makes a lot of sense to do accurate measurements with the help from other experienced people who do engine tuning on a daily bases. At the end of the day that will save you money and it will give you the least problems and the best results.
This episode has alot of nostalgia. The old shop, ike's old boss and the dynamic! Love it!
Keep working on it yinz guys. Keep up the great work and I will keep on watching
@CarsandCameras I can't help anyone if they don't listen but you still need to tune to gasoline afr's unless you have a methanol programed wb controller. Watching it idle with the gauge pegged rich it's no surprise there is fuel running out the exhaust. If you are interested we can talk, carb or efi this is what I do every day. Just fyi that gas afr of 7 means that your methanol afr is 3.
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Man! That was some great diagnostics. Great job y'all, stay safe.
100% worth making a plenum. The manifold you have is great for NA but for boost it’s being pushed where the turbo wants it to go.
A plenum chamber with the boost aimed at the back wall of the chamber and not into the intake runners will give it chance to mix better and take the route the engine wants it to.
If you look at WRC car intake manifolds they do a similar thing. Very small thin intake across the whole width of the plenum and not aiming directly at the intake runners.
I've only watched a few of your episodes fellas. And they were early ones. I'm a 49yr old hmmm...."newbie" at no prep drag racing. I did the whole street thing years ago just playing around. We thought a semi stock foxbody 5.0 mustang was fast, and firebird, camaros etc. The whole new style turbo thing that has just kept getting more and more efficient, adaptable, and the power they can make on almost anything is unbelievable. I wasn't surprised when I saw you guys putting one on that rail, but now hearing that yr running it on methanol and it's making over 100ft lbs of torque?!?!?!?!?!. Good lord. The potential that you still have locked away in that thing is almost unthinkable. 2 cylinders and what? 670cc? That thing like shames some Harley engines as far as power. I think I'm going to continue to watch and see what you guys come up with. I do wonder though what could be done to things like camshaft profiles, beefier rotating assembly and fuel delivery systems to make even more power. Imagine the day where you'll have to do a smoky burnout or use tire conditioner and stuff to make sure traction isn't a issue. There has to be some point where the torque and HP reach that stage, or have I missed you having to address it already? I race hardtire no prep. We are constantly trying to overcome how to put power to the ground without slicks or drag radials. The theories and blends of prep and tire combos are endless..
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What about a small plenum after the turbo? Enjoy the content. 👍
I believe kyle from boosted bois has something similar on his turbo shopping cart. I think he calls it a boost chamber?
Ike and John, when tuning on Alcohol, you look at how much cad plating burned. It starts on the ground strap and you can get down to the first thread safely so long as you still see soot. If your plugs look washed and there’s no signs of any heat, you need to take a little fuel away.
really awesome video. those dyno guys were great helping you figure that t hing out. cant wait to see her ripping good. lowere HP than Torque just means you haven't got your revs up yet. once you get the intake evened out you can work on the revs maybe.
On the intake redesign, try running 2 individual pipes all the way up. Joining at the turbo flange. And when you look in from the turbo side, there's a divider, splitting it 50/50.
Make the divider out of flat metal, allowing you to "tune" the percentage by slightly moving the divider to reduce or increase the split.
For instance. One cylinder running lean? Bend the divider to give it more than 50%. Something like 55/45 split. Ect.
Love the channel and love the dragster project but a quick FYI methanol won't foul a spark plug you can actually run them rich until it hydrolocks .... keep on keeping on
We're all learning along with you. You'll get it!
Glad you see that you have a good place to take it for these runs. These guys really seem like they know their stuff. Good luck with the new intake design.
Man do I love McMaster-Carr. If yall don't use them already you should.
U can test waste gate spring by applying air to it with a boost gauge teed in slowly apply air pressure and u will see the pressure start to go up and as the rod starts to move see what pressure it opens at will be close if u have good flow and not getting boost creep when engine is making boost
Yes you can never pay enough attention to Manifold design Natural or blown manifold is hyper important to get right looking good and nice numbers should be very interesting when you get those manifolds sorted . keep up the good work
Thanks for the great entertainment guys
you know, bosch had a MECHANICAL fuel injection for like 15 years in all kinds of cars, including those volvos that isaac loves........ just saying...........
and before people show up to complain about the CIS bosch injection, ive rebuilt several dozen of them and they all perform amazing. ive owned 6 of them as daily drivers for over 20 years and none of them has ever failed outside of a pump dying.
The VW Rabbit that was the first car I bought had that Bosch mechanical injection. As long as it was maintained, it ran great.
That things gonna oil down tracks so much faster now 🥵
You could weld little wing inside the intake , to induce swirl, in the tubing possibly cut a slightly angled slit around the tubing at 22°-30° I don't think id go as far as 45°,
They used to make inserts for car intakes that induced swirl, this calls for something much smaller, but I'd study the whole system as it is first, maybe take it apart, and paint the inside with ink, or dye chem, so it can be washed off by the fuel, showing better what's happening, then attempt to fix the problem before trying to many things, they also sold gaskets with a metallic screen mesh between. Two gaskets , to help atomize that flll0
Hey Isaac and John and Charles keep it up you'll get even if you have to put one carburetor on each cylinder you'll get it don't give up love watching your videos
You got 2real options higher voltage coil good luck with that, or independent carb/turbo per cylinder
Think about using a sheet metal "divider" in the larger intake tube from the outlet face of the turbo- to keep the flow even -all the way to where the intake splits off to each cylinder. Raising the idle speed keeps flow moving faster to prevent fuel separating. Jr.Dragsters with huge alcohol carburetors idle at 3800 -4400 RPM-not feasible on your big block twin, but you get the idea.
over 10hp per liter is no joke!
Still, I think it's time for a micro squirt. Small fuel rail with injector bungs that point the fuel at the intake valves and you'll never worry about fuel distribution again!
Dang that sucks well atleast you found the problem
Man I really feel for you guys. I can't wait for you to get it running how you want and be able to tear down the drag strip at lightning speed!!! Great that you found the fault with the fuel distribution, onward and upward 👍👍👍
Back in the 80's, when Briggs first came out with their "boxer" twin cylinder engine, there were problems getting both cylinders to run equally, especially at idle. They even came out with a intake elbow with a metal divider in the bore to try and help this. I got out of small engine repair in 1986, so fast forward to the V twin engines, low an behold they have a two barrel carb, each cylinder having it's own barrel. So it could be your engine is getting a different afr to each side. Maybe put two afr gauges on it to see what they read? Just my 2 cents worth!
She's a screamer!Can't wait to see how it runs once you guys get it ironed out.
Twin charge it.
Add a roots style blower and 2 carbs to deliver twice the fuel capasity
Looking forward to seeing the rail rip down the dragstrip once you get all the gremlins worked out of the fuel system. It's been an amazing adventure following this build to its current rendition, hopefully we will be seeing another build project soon?
I wonder about splitting up the 2 cylinders and doing individual carbs with blow thru design
You could even do individual efi throttle bodies
Still shows lots of promise
Enjoying the updates
There was a PowerNation episode featuring one of the head engineers at Esslinger performance where they bult a ford 2.3L i4 for racing. Because those racing engines are carbuerated they experienced a similar problem to this and it was solved by trial-and-erroring different shaped baffles in the intake manifold. This seems like a similar problem, and maybe something like that would help. It's stragne how airflow patterns work.
This is the best project ever !!
This is the best project yall have done for a while
wat you could try is making a mostly straight intake using , those trumpet style intake runners , and put a log manifold over it to equalize the pressure over those two trumpet intakes , another thing that might happen is that the centrifugal force of the compressor pushes the atomised fuel out of the air slams it against the turbo housing where it puddles and get ingested mostly by the front cilinder, you need to see wat path of the intake the outside of the turbos compressor housing is pooring intoo , to solve that you might have to make the carb intoo a blow through setup...............or go to injection
I'd like to see y'all experiment with smaller diameter and narrower rear tires. Unless you really need the width of the tires you're running, you might find your rail's quicker with less weight to spin. I see several areas that could be tweaked for quicker times. I'll just leave this one hint 9about the tires) here and wait to see if you decide to experiment in the other areas.
When y'all get that thing dialed its gonna be like riding a rocket!!!
Its a good thing you did the dyno, old guys know shit. Keep at it and keep learning. Great show.
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I can't wait to see the rail back at the track and running right. That thing is a monster.
Isaac is always ready to listen for knowledge.
110ft-lbs to the wheels is OUTSTANDING for a 40c.i. motor that was manufactured with an objective meant to push around lawnmowers... 👌 🍻
@CarsAndCameras23 Let's not... 👎
We used to run oil in our methanol fuels, klotz bēnol or super techniplate, to keep from washing the cylinders down in our super comp dragster
MicroSquirt FI can fire 2 injectors, so get a couple sized for a 340cc cylinder or maybe a 600cc cylinder to account for the Methanol and sync the injection to fire as the intake valve closes. I did that for another 670 back a few years ago, but I don't know if the current software supports that. I know the old software would allow for independent injector control, but you had to fiddle with the injector table.
Hey in my country we have a tecnic on weak coil we call it grounding basically you just cover the ignition coil wire with wire and connect it to battery and the other one is on the ground of the coil
Reading a alcohol tune-up using spark plugs is different than reading a gasoline tune-up on spark plugs. First major difference for alcohol is that you do not read the color off the porcelain around the center electrode. Air to fuel ratios within the combustion chamber are going to be read by the appearance of the metal base ring at the end of the threaded area of the plugs and the color of the first three threads of the spark plugs. The amount of ignition advance is still read as with gasoline plugs by the blue line on the plugs ground strap or sometimes referred to as the ground electrode.
I'm happy for your project that has given you great satisfaction
I thought for sure it was compression. That's a tough little engine.
A wooden gokart with a wooden body and frame with a motor would be cool. and a full size truck but powered with a 420cc or a 999cc sounds dope I'd like to see that
If you can find and install a old car magneto it will help to give the engine enough spark to help burn the methanol it's the same reason dragsters run magnetos colder fuel needs a hotter spark. I have a really good magneto in the attic but I am to disabled to dig it up for you guys. If I can get the kid to dig it up for me I will send it your way . but any decent magneto will work if it's set up right. it won't help with the fuel problem but a longer runner with built in baffles will take care of that by making the fuel mix with the air better
Y’all have been entertaining EFI. What about MFI? Snag a small VE pump from the junkyard. Run the pump off a small 30 or smaller series chain from the flywheel side of the engine. Use pintle injectors in your intake tubing.
You would need to start adding two stroke oil to your fuel to lubricate the pump and injectors though.
Loving this build and can’t wait to see is at it’s full potential. Just going to say twin turbo twin carb.
The little gopro slumping down at 7:45 is just too funny 🤣
Rail videos are the best! Keep them up
That exhaust sounds so good, it's way better than it was with that crappy 1 inch pipe. 👍👍
16:50 perhaps some sort of diffuser in the intake manifold collector could help mix and regulate the AFR to each cylinder. I forget what carb'd v twin had this but they chopped up the air/fuel just down stream of the carb to better regulate each cylinders AFR just before the individual plenums.