Dyno Tuning our Nitro Methanol Turbo 670cc Harbor Freight Drag Rail
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2022
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We take our high performance Harbor Freight 670cc drag rail to the dyno! A dyno or dynamometer measures torque. Our Harbor Freight 670cc V twin drag rail makes a lot of torque! We find out how much power a turbo 670cc v twin makes on the dyno. It's not every day you see a turbo v twin, especially a modified lawn mower v twin. We also switch from gasoline to a nitro methanol blend to see how much hp a methanol predator 670 makes.
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A megasquirt and single automotive injector would give you full tunability. You could leave the carb in place for running gasoline and use it as a throttle body for the efi. It's not as complicated as it sounds. You already have the broadband O2 sensor in place.
Microsquirt would be even better, and tiny.
Holley has a single injector kit.
@@VeeDees speeduino even cheaper
they have the sensors they just need a crank position sensor and they can go full EFI Draw though carbs SUCK the draw though setup is 100% why it would not run with the big carb
@@stacysery5612 There ya go, probably with an integrated boost controller!
Guys, if I can make a suggestion for carb...Back in the day when I was tuning drag Harleys...the guys that ran methanol/nito-methanol blend often ran the Dual Throat S&S carbs .... You had a huge range of jetting options. Basically it's important to match tune each barrel as each is like an individual carb on a single float bowl. S&S hasn't made them in years, but I bet if you get on the interwebs you can find them.
They could just about go efi for how much a dual throat s&s would cost nowadays.
@@magicstew45 but they do flow a shit ton of air and fuel
Vw webber would be just like it. But tune easier
I believe I still have my old holley 2 barrel carb from my harley. If I can find it, you are welcome to it
I think the problem is Gopowersports won't sponsor a custom build not using their parts.
the self clearing sparks, and methanol are a scary combo, especially since methanol flames are basically invisible in daylight.
They didn't know what a wastegate was when they started installing this one. Point being.... they're learning as they go
Not critiquing negatively, just more informatively. Methanol fire is no joke, would hate for someone to get badly hurt or worse.
Yeah we fixed that as soon as we got home
Glad to hear it can't wait to see this thing sorted out at the drag strip
Yeah, and the driver already looks a lot like Ricky Bobby! I can see him yelling that he's on fire running in circles stripping off hahahaha
Ike John and charles have taught me more than a small engines class thanks guys.
"Too much airflow" doesn't make sense; "too little fuel" does
I'm kind of on your side but it's possible the issue with the 38mm was too slow of airflow, and there wasn't actually enough venturi effect to pull fuel out of the jet. If that's the case it probably would have ran lean but may have actually taken off if they could just get the turbo spooled
@@limprooster3253 I wondered about that too; yet even with the restricted flow and the turbo spooled, it was still unable except when restricted. I think the additional vacuum prolly sucked extra fuel through the carb jets and made it just rich enough (while still extremely lean) to run (more vacuum from the turbo being spooled and wanting that extra air, restriction meant it was depressurizing everything, including those jets....a nuance to what you said)
@@krakhedd Yeah I think we are thinking pretty much the same thing. I never heard the turbo spool though. They did get it to rev higher but they had the carb 3/4 of the way choked off. Not sure it ever got enough air to spool it
until you hydro lock all the fuel!
@@TheUncommonKIBBLES I don't think you can hydrolock fuel. hydrolocking is when water gets into the cylinder, locking up the motor.
It might be interesting to point a camera at the gauge panel when you do these kinds of tests. 😎
I call that my data logger.
Tried, think the camera footage was probably dark and shaky.
You can get enough fuel through the first carb, the emulsion tube needs to be drilled in the main center hole and the air bleeds may need changed as well.
On the big carburetor it will work, it will pull fuel, if it is setup right you could easily use a carb twice that size.
When switching fuel types remember that wide band reads lambda (1 lambda is ALWAYS stoic no matter the fuel type) from the exhaust, and the display converts it to gasoline air to fuel ratio where 1 lambda (stoic) = 14.7 to 1 afr, so on methanol when the display shows 14.7 (stoic) the actual afr is 6.4 (methanol stoic) so your carb is a lot closer to right than you thought.
On the tav slipping, first tighten the rear spring, it may be necessary to drill more holes to get it tight enough, this will raise shift rpm if it gets too high put heavier weights and heavier springs in the front pulley. I'm sure your aware of this but always clean the pulleys after belt slippage, wire brush, 300 grit sand paper, and brake cleaner.
If you've made it this far please thumbs up so that they can see this!
If you need to choke it down to run right, you dont have enough fuel. An engine is an air pump. The more air you can run through the system the more power you make, hence adding a turbo. Choking the intake defeats the object of increasing the air flow.
I think they are using the wrong sock. They have different flow ratings. lol
This is the right comment!
10000% right - literally reducing horsepower to get it running right.
Correct. But when life gives you lemons you do the best you can with what you have.
This case they choked it in order to not blow it
I always thought that if you are adding more air you need to add more fuel also if you don't it's going to run lean that's why on cars that people put turbos on have to get a high flow fuel pump and bigger injectors but I could be wrong
Just a reminder that wideband o2 sensors actually measure the proportion of air fuel in the exhaust (lambda) then the gauge converts that reading to an "AFR" which means if your gauge is setup for gasoline afrs and its running stoichometric on methanol which would be 6.5/1 it will still show 14.7/1 on the gauge beacuse it thinks that you are running gasoline. ig you try to get to 6,5/1 on the gauge you would actually be flooding the engine with fuel
As a recomendantion you guys should consider swtich to using lambda which definelty makes tunning easier since its de directly proportion of how much your mixture is running rich/lean compared to stoich as an example:
1 lamda = Stoich
1.2 lambda = 20% lean
0.8 lambda = 20% rich
this development is SO much fun to watch. Reminds me of drag racing back in the 60's where everybody was doing it for the love of it, and learning new stuff every day. (yeah, I'm old enough to remember all that from back in my teen years)
As a teen in the late 1970s, I ran Kohler 4 hp iron block engine on 5% nitro/95% gasoline. The home made go kart was super light with only a ordinary single ratio dry clutch/chain drive. We had a oval shaped subdivision as a test track. It's best top speed was around 55mph. Although the carb was from a 10hp Briggs motor, main jet drilled and a air scoop" dryer vent " added to the engines cooling shroud, it ran hot. You could not sit idling, had to keep it up to speed to stay cool. I used really thin dead soft copper sheeting to make head gaskets. Never properly computed compression ratio but it was high. It was really fun.
Never imagined a harbor freight engine was this capable! Great job guys!
With lots of mods anything is possible
I have a 6.5hp predator 212cc from harbor freight that I have on a bicycle that now makes around 25hp and will do over 100mph
@@JiggyJ22 That's some scary stuff right there. What kind of bicycle?
@@jayrowe6473 not sure if my last comment posted I can't see it. this is basically the same bike I helped him build it for the most part, I just have different handlebars, seat, and tires with a much faster engine, mines just alittle different style. The frame is called a felt faker or GT-C
th-cam.com/video/hiP_d5m_meA/w-d-xo.html
MOON TUNE BABY! I'm surprised the cylinder heads didn't enter the earth's atmosphere!
It probably will blow the heads off when you least expect it.
Pin your comments
Why don't Charles drive it on the track? You'd save 100lbs.
Do you possibly mean leave instead of enter
Whens next busco trip? My mower is about ready!
Oh my gosh, I never thought I'd have so much fun watching a dyno video but you guys pulled it off. I loved Isaac's face when he did the moon tune! I understand John's reaction but it would be freaking sweet if you did your final drag run on the moon tune.
Sheeesh this 670 is going to be a beast I’m so proud of you guys I’ve been subscribed when you had 20k subscribers god bless you and your family 🙏🏻 keep up the good work 👍🏽💪🏼
This episode was heaps of fun to watch. I think I was smiling more then you guys. Well done boys! Super proud. Y’all have come along way since OG days! C&C FTW
I think I'm the only one who is still disappointed that they didn't put the Ducati engine on the rail
I’m disappointed too. It won’t fit unfortunately
If it never does anything else... it sounds good!
Get a goodly assortment of jets and another fuel pump along with a relay and a pushbutton switch.
Set the second pump and jet up like a nitrous system and just push the button when you need extra fuel!
The fuel pump shouldn’t be the issue, it can feed a big block Chevy, we just can’t physically drill out the jet enough, we’re running into the threads of the jet. So this carb plus a power jet might get us going
@@CarsandCameras, Yeah, I didn't mean that the fuel pump wasn't big enough. I was just thinking that you cannot get enough fuel to the engine through the carb. If your pump will support it, just take another line off of it, put a jet into it and using a solenoid valve spray it into the intake as needed, and viola! plenty of fuel!
@Kurt, Yes, something like that, but a bit more refined!
Ohhh that’d be sweet
@Kurt Holeee b@lls of fire! Ike better invest in a Nomax jumpsuit for that set-up! Lol!
Definately improving! My fav part about this build is the sound that 670 produces!
Time for a dual throat weber!
Also, one of those ridiculous 8" wide belts from the old custom chopper shows.
Maybe it's time for EFI with really big injectors, since carburetors have their limits in turbocharged applications
Especially in draw through applications. They do better in a blow through set up with a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator but will never be as good as EFI.
Or just put a bike engine in that chassis & paint 2 black lines down the track
@@keeganlangford5580 yeah, you only have to look at what @robot cantina is doing with their supercharged 420cc engine, they have a detailed series setting up EFI and boost
Throw a set of 700 or 800cc snowmobile belt drives on it, those are good for a easy 140hp. And efi for sure
Fuel injection would be a can of worms but it could definitely supply enough fuel. Thanks for the suggestion
@@CarsandCameras megasquirt and ls injectors with the caps ground off.
@@CarsandCameras Need velocity stacks on carburetors
You boys are the best, you put a smile on my face😂 Been watching y’all for so long you almost feel like old friends. Loving the builds, the challenges, the camaraderie and loving the laughs. Keep up the good work👏
Same here... I have been so invested into the @carsandcameras crew for so long now, that (like you said) it feels like I'm just watching a couple of my good buddies. 👍
The sound that engine was making on full boost with nitro was AWESOME !!! She was humming along quite nicely and sounds like it is pretty balanced for a lawn mower engine with the state of tune. I suggest you get another 32 carb and make some new manifolds and cable arrangement and put carb per cylinder and let it breathe!!
Full boost being choked by a sock? lol.
You need to put a velocity stack in front of the carb to speed up airflow.
Salad bowl power!!!
(See Engine Masters 😉)
Nah.
Open up the hole going through the middle of your emulsion tube, and solder up some of the holes that let air bubbles in through the side. If you do a little research you will know where to put those air holes for whatever RPM you need more, or less fuel for. Hope this helps. PS raising the height of your gas tank, and putting 3/8" dia fuel lines on increases fuel pressure.
This right here. I almost can bet that they are actually limiting fuel through the tube and not the jet when you start to need that much fuel with a mikuni. These guys need to do a bit more research on all tuning of a mikuni as another carb will have the same problem.
Nah man they need an EFI and a fuel pump. Small engines and turbos never work very well with carburetors. They would get more power with just the methanol and no turbo at this point. They are putting a sock to decrease flow, defeating the purpose of running a turbo. Seriously they are trying to get more boost by choking the air flow with a sock to get more fuel flow. That's hilarious. They ain't the sharpest tools in the shed. lol. 😂The carbs they have will never deliver enough fuel. It needs to be forced injected to work correctly. Oh well, they are entertaining that's all that matters, lol.
Thanks for the explanation on the fuel type and percentages fellas. Very important. Can't wait to see it hit the track!
Can't wait to see it rip down the track. I've been watching since the beginning of this build and it's very cool seeing how far it has come 🔥👍🏻✌️
I'd love to see you guys put a old Wisconsin v4 on that thing
When I was 12-13 years old someone gave me a vf4. I had the books and everything. I wish I still had that engine!
great video guys, get a NOS nozzle and inject extra fuel in after the carb! good luck with it and look forward to seeing results..
that's an idea too
That's kind of the idea of the power jet. It's a nozzle on the carb that just let's the fuel run unmetered other than the jet size.
1 cold start injector after the turbo.
your making a monster engine that a cvt cannot handel well
@@bijuthemanalsincy Judging by the sparks and rattling I suggest it is defiantly the weakest link!.. think they may soon find out it's breaking point! and a guard around it might be an idea?.. watching it all I could see was that CVT flying apart, with a shower of rapidly traveling shracknle .. valid point..
Hey. I use a 28mm carb on a 70 cc. Works grate. If u check out some info, on air speed(velocity) and carbs. maybe u get it right. The sock will restrict air flow. but also air speed. So when you up the needle hole, the slow flowing air cant pick up, and atomise the big droplets. Got good results, by narrowing down the inatake/filter i front of the carb. But leave it as "open" as possible. Great stuff guys. Thanks. And keep it up
The excitement that Charles had at the start of this video explains how I feel when you guys upload a video. Awesome vid guys
You guys could set up a jet in the intake to give more fuel like nitrous guys do if you can't find a carburetor that provides enough fuel
They could also just put 2 carburetors behind each other...
Fuel injection and a tuneable cdi ignition set up would make this a crazy engine easily 65+ ponies
Please swap a v8 in the old mower for uh…. Good times sake?
That’s a recipe to flip it again
poor issac
"Like a bunch of monkeys with a football!" 🤣👍✌
@21:18 Ike's face lololol moon tune
Your still aiming for somewhere around lambda 0.85. AFR is just some math done on top of that. If an AFR gauge for gasoline shows 12.5:1 it is still the same lambda value no matter what the fuel. With methanol you want to be a little richer. You should really let the gauge show lambda not afr.
You might want to put EFI on this. A speeduino setup will work great for this
All that for 40hp 😂
40hp- at the wheels, on 8lbs of boost, on dyno rollers designed for a heavier vehicle, on gasoline.
20psi of boost with a good belt, who knows. 60, 70, maybe more
This thing sounds wicked! Still has so much more power making capability, it rips hard even with an AFR that lean, great job guys 🔥
great stuff guys thanks
Just for the S and G's I wonder how well this would run off of like Traxxas 20% Nitro fuel for a nitro R/C. The percentage can't be too far off maybe.
That would be hilarious!
@@CarsandCameras it's a crazy amount of castor oil in rc fuel.
@Kurt like a 2stroke probly
I think it would melt the piston , I ran some " old " trinity " nitro mix in a chainsaw once " only once " it melted the piston ☺ , but it ran like a scalded ape 👋
@@juniorwest5706 Probably not enough oil in the mixture to make it happy
You guys never ever seem to bring everything you need why is that
We make 40+ minutes of FINISHED content per week. Things get overlooked sometimes. We also did bring 3 carbs, so it wasn’t for lack of trying
You just need to come completely prepared that's all and you never ever do ever
Hey like there one shirt says no parts no tools no plan
HAHA Ike's face gets still as a statue when that cooling shroud blows off.
you can also put T's in the wastegate line to "fool" the wastegate to add more boost pressure, instead of just taking the line off
21:19 Ikes praying so hard it keeps together.
I love this build keep it going guys. Great content like always
Great job guys.....excellent video
Timing, timing, timing... The whole point in methanol is you can run more timing. On our pulling tractor motors we advanced as much as 12 degrees over gasoline. It takes approx 40% more fuel over gasoline as well. We used Kohler 1.2" k series number 30 carbs, machined the venturi so it was 1.2 all the way through, drilled the jet, raised the float. This was on a motor that is less than 500cc (30 cubic inch was our limit at the time). So the 38mm is probably not far off unless the turbo changes things.
Loved the intro with the action in the background
Guys there is so much more left on the table with this build! Fuel injection or a SS carb might be needed and then a stronger snowmobile type torque converter I can see in the future. Epic guys. Keep up the good work.
That thing is bada$$ yall are really brining the heat. Whatever time it runs on the strip I'm sure it'll be bad to the bone. I just hope the launch will be EPIC!!
My god I'm addicted to this channel. Keep em coming!!!
It sounds so cool at full song , can’t wait to see the drag strip video
That build is awesome!
I haven't watched these guys in 4 months but I'm glad I came back as I love this car from like years ago.plus Issac is a legend. Ike rules
Just subscribed and became a pit crew also . Been watching for awhile . Yall are great . My son and I have 3 carts . We live a little south of Richmond ,Va . Two of them have 6 1/2 hp predators stage 2 they get around 45 - 50 MPH on our streets. Off road buggy with a 420 on it completely built my us . Keep up the good work . Love the new shop.
This is a crude idea but boost reference fuel pressure to a independent fuel nozzle. Use a pressurized independent fuel system. I don't have a boosted engine but with a water/methanol mix on a high compression v8 it works really well. Best of all it is pretty simple to set up.
What I used to do with draw through for water injection will work.
Tap your hot pipe to be able to fit a carburettor jet . Run a Hobbs switch valve with al an electric pump so it comes on after 3 psi of boost and you can change the idle jet to flatten the afr out.
That was frickin awesome guys
Stout little Block you have. I had a 5hp briggs and stratton on methanol. 9000+ RPM according to the digatron. It was cool to see that little engine get pushed to the limits and still hold strong in the end.
It sounds so awesome. I love it
That thing sounds incredible
You could stick a "bleed valve" in the boost line to the wastegate to make the turbo spool up a bit slower which will lower that initial lean spike which i think is caused by the sudden surge of boost pressure
That was awesome guys!
Put a high impadence 42lb injector in the intake tract and hook it to a micro switch on the throttle pedal, that'll cure all your fuel problems. May have to go smaller or bigger on the injector but you get the idea. I did something like this as supplemental fuel on a turbo car i built spraying straight methanol. Worked fairly well I might add and knock intake air temps down significantly
I raced dirt karts in the 90s and sometimes we would put about an oz of nitro in the oil. It made a huge difference. They were methanol motors.
That’s quite a rig guys! Very interesting build. So much room to play with. Let’s see more
Totally awesome guys 😁
That thing is awesome!
Cool to be able to tinker while still strapped to the DYNO!
This has probably been said already, but wideband O2 sensors read in what's called lambda, where 1:1 is a stochiometric mix of air and fuel regardless of fuel type. The 12:1 or 6.5:1 you guys are aiming for is an air/fuel ratio based on the fuel being used. If your wideband is set up to read the fuel as gasoline, you'll still be aiming for roughly 11:1-12:1 no matter what fuel is going through it.
See you there! Looking forward to seeing you guys run.
he literally took the sock off his foot to use that's a dedicated man right there lol he needs a raise for sure
Had a blast seeing y'all at the track can't wait to see the video
i used to drag race snowmobiles on asphalt, to help with belt slippage. use a scotch brite on the sheaves of the torgue converter, cross hatch it.. helps significantly!!!!!!!!
I'll have to wait for the video because I'm on the opposite coast, Cali. Looking forward to seeing you guys get down the track.
I knew Ike would have to rip up the yard 😂🤣 the man is hard on stuff 😬
I'm obviously late to the party but I love your new shop! Awesome!!
I love your guys videos
I'm so ready to see this thing on the track. Wish I could be there. This thing is awesome.
If it wasn't for the 20 hr flight from Australia, I'd be at the track myself.
6:00 Am i the only one seeing the resemblance of Will Ferrell from Talladega nights haha!
Good work tho guys, every boys wet dream right there :D
Sounds good !!
The thing I hate about the comments is that they are telling you things to do or fix but y'all are the smartest people for go-karts...
You guys make the coolest carts....and make a living doing it 👍
It’s coming together so nicely been a while
Guys with Methanol fuel you should be able to use compound turbocharging, also for WOT pulls you can add a fixed office injector in the manifold to dump fuel straight into the intake. AKA Go Kart Hill Bourn fuel injection.
I know this a different conversation but your cross kart was awesome keep up the the great work and,keep sending more kool projects.
When I’ve used 38mm carbs I’ve found that you need it go to a higher pressure pump. I run a 44mm carb on a 500 twin snowmobile engine. Yes it’s a two stroke, but it makes peak power at 7200.
Can’t wait to see it on the track
WOW. You guys continue to be so awesome with your videos 🥰. This Old Man from Washington NC wishing I could be there Friday night. Good luck and be safe 🙏. Love you Guys. 🛵🧔💝💝💝
On the one hand it’s awesome backyard engineering and pure hot rodding to play with all your sock additions etc to try and get the best tune. But you know its backwards logic to add a turbo and then choke it off. You need a) bigger carburetor, b) multiple carburetors or, c) fuel injection as previously mentioned in the comments. Think back to early hot rodding and early drag racing. As they switched fuels they added more induction capacity not just changing a jet on a single carb. And yes you need to adjust the waste gate pressure and rather than socks, play with air inlet tuning by using a velocity type inlet tube of various sizes to gently adjust the amount of air flow.
That was awesome.
Y'all should look into a single itb... take that choke point off the front of the turbo so it can breathe better and move the throttle body closer will create a easier way to tune.... plus a bigger turbo wouldn't hurt either...😁👍
Sounds Killer!
Such a cool video
, way to go guys sounds very good sounds healthy once you get your car issues figured out I think she'll be a good rail and be careful all right
John is getting down with the editing !!!!!!
Huge top fuel drag racing fan hear. This car rocks
You guys are living my dream!
for the carb you can make a secondary jet, that goes from the tray to the inlet of the carb, and when is like 75% open it start squirting fuel in