I mean Persona 5 Royal got a nomination, why not Elden Ring? If Elden Ring gets it, Persona 5 Royal should be awarded "Best Role Playing Game" post ceremony. Why? FF7 Remake got Best Role Playing Game in 2020 and FF7 Remake is not "one of the best games ever made", but P5R is., just like Elden Ring.
a DLC and remake should never be in that top list, even if one likes it just make a spotlight moment to say "check this out" but that's dumb its just "i like this game check it out its not needed, liking something doesn't mean put it into an award
DLCs and remasters should not be eligible for GOTY. One is extra content for a game that came out in years prior and the other is just an old title being sold again with touch ups. Remakes however should qualify as those are new games built from the ground up. Why can’t there just be a best DLC/expansion category? It’s not like it’s a struggle to come up with 5 worthy games that actually came out in 2024 and the fact that TGA suddenly bent over backwards to include Elden Ring DLC reeks of special treatment and nepotism.
The difference between a sequel and DLC is so vague without context as to be entirely redundant. Most sequels are just more of an old thing. Hell, From's games are basically all iterative versions of the same game, with the same assets, animations and models, with DS2 being the only exception in the Souls series. Even games like Bloodborne and Sekiro borrow heavily from previous games. Saying that DLC should not be eligible on principle is a very slippery slope. It has to be judged on a case by case basis to mean anything.
@@BigSmokePapa667 you’re just describing how games are marketed, not an actual meaningful difference. Shadow of the Erdtree is a game that released this year. I know because I bought it and played it the day it released. You can tell me it’s “technically not a game” till you’re blue in the face. It doesn’t matter. I already played the game and saw that it was, in fact, a game.
Kind weird to say that just because a dlc is long enough, it could be nominated as game of year, when there's truly incredible, very short games out there. I don't understand why we are judging this by the size of the dlc
And it also just wouldn’t be fun to see the same game win game of the year. Like, what if the extended version of Return of the King got nominated for Best Picture the year after the theatrical version won?
@@dalog9194 Doesnt matter imo. Same reason why BG3 didn't win best fighting game last year. It just not in that category. I think we should just put DLC and expansions in on going games, or their own category.
Idk man it feels really weird the way people and especially reviewers have been treating Shadow of the Erdtree like a whole different thing from any other dlc in history just because of how big it is. It’s undoubtedly one of the best things that released this year but it’s still just a dlc and it’s still Elden Ring and I don’t see why it should get the spotlight when it already did the year it released. I love ER but I don’t like the special status people give to it and the dlc.
@@ArchHippy that's exactly how I feel about it, it's still essentially giving it twice to the same game, if anything I think a game that didn't win goty would be more deserving of winning it as a whole package after a dlc releases than a game like Elden Ring that already won it. Like how much praise are we gonna give this game before it impedes on other games that also deserve recognition, that's the concern.
@CartoonHangout outside of the goty contenders what would you put up there? Shadow of the erdtree had a giant hype train behind it and delivered. People are just Salty and probably didn't play it, it's goated dlc. I could see Silent hill remake getting a spot I guess.
@@666slateran666 there’s no game that deserves goty twice. Good for you if u think SotE is the best thing you played this year, but it’s still giving the spotlight to ER for a second year, the game had it’s recognition and so did the dlc, it shouldn’t impede on the actual standalone games that released in 2024.
@Nanoqtran Depends on the fan base vote, the difference between Expansions and best live service of the year could be another section also. Expansions from Triple A Devs are usually a big deal when a company does it right. Best example I can think of is Phantom Liberty Cyber Punk
@@NanoqtranI doubt that will ever happen. Sure there’s not always erdtree level dlc released every year but there’s always some good dlc at least for smaller games.
@@Nanoqtran this is a silly question. There's never been a year of DLC when there was only skins. Might as well ask if we should have a GOTY category if we only get card games one year. You're creating a reality that will never exist.
You should give more spotlight to the BAFTA awards when it comes around since that is basically what you want from the Game Awards. Recently watched the last year one and it was pretty much everything I want the Game Awards to be. Not focused on celebrities, game trailers, ads etc and just focused on the awards.
BAFTA definitely is better tbh. Don’t get me wrong, they be on some BS with their nominations too, but they’re definitely more fair and they nominate a lot of under the radar games that are great.
I certainly do and I'm sick of the revisionist history Cyberpunk fans spout. Fixing your shit and having a halfway decent expansion doesn't make it better than the ongoing support FFXIV, Genshin Impact, No Man's Sky or Path of Exile receive.
The biggest reason why I'm against Elden Ring's nomination this year, especially if it ends up winning, is because it feels like the Game Awards and their associated board of judges are bending over backwards to disregard titles that fall outside of the usual GOTY categories. Outside of Elden Ring, the arguable frontrunners are Astro Bot(a 3D platformer), Balatro(a card game) and Metaphor(a turn-based JRPG), all of which are genres that tend to get snubbed for those with wider appeal, such as open world titles or linear narrative-driven action/adventure games. There are, of course exceptions to this. It Takes Two won in 2021 (though that was a fairly barren year), and though not a JRPG and therefore more statistically likely to win, Baldur's Gate 3 was still turn-based and won in a very stacked year. But there is a clear bias towards established mega franchises in well-trodded genres for game of the year. In spite of Astro Bot being polished to a mirror shine and near flawless for its entire runtime, it's an 8-10 hour long 3D platformer with minimal story that prioritizes playful ideas and fun level design, which can't seem to compete with a 50-60 hour long sprawling gigantic open-world even if it still has tons of technical issues and isn't even released as its own boxed product.
Pretty sure that would end any kind of sponsorship or advertisement deal they currently have... On second, why not, then we may see them end the Game Awards 😂
FromSoft is unique in that they're basically the only company now that makes DLCs that are basically full games (this was a lot more common for pc games in the 90s and early 2000s, they were called expansions. There are indie devs that offer DLC that's good bang for the buck like Dead Cells and Vampire Survivors), but in the AAA pretty much all DLC is trash. From is in a unique position, and I think it's completely appropriate to count their DLC as a full game.
that is so true, If there was a DLC worthy of GOTY it was Blood and Wine, it felt like a completely new game, it's still the highest rated DLC on Metacritic.
I'm sure this isn't the most popular part of your show but thanks so much for always taking the time out to mention a cool indie or upcoming project. I never would have heard of Miniatures otherwise and it's definitely something I want to check out.
I disagree with Shadow of the Erdtree deserving to get Game of the year. Did Witcher 3 Blood and Wine get a chance? I'd compare them as absolutely amazing additions to an absolutely amazing game... To remove this argument in the future, there should be a category for best DLC... There have been many great ones so far so I think it should be rewarded aswell.
I'd argue it is partly Geoff's fault. Geoff is one of the main big wigs of The Game Awards and would have been one of the people to decide if DLCs and Expansions were allowed to be Game of the Year. It remains to be seen if he agreed to the idea or not, but I'm leaning on he did because it builds hype and gets money.
I really think people are missing the point of this. Like Skill Up said, we should just put Outer Wilds in every category. Game of the Year in our hearts.
I know Fromsoft is on people's mind, but buying Kadokawa would get Sony access of so much of the anime/manga industry. Its basically the Japanese version of Disney buying Fox.
DLC shouldn't be considered for GOTY. That feels like a TV episode winning the Oscar for best film. There are easily enough DLC's dropping in a year to have enough entries, just give each category it's own award. Also, I don't really like to agree with CEOs but I agree with Phil Spencer when he said that consoles don't really have that much to offer anymore. PCs are strong as hell, and are way more accessible than buying a $500 PS5 and then a $600 PS5 Pro two years later, plus a $400 Xbox Series whatever. I like their approach to just making more games and making their titles accessible as possible. I definitely feel like that will give Xbox more space to grow their games portfolios to include more indies and more high budget games.
I think most DLC shouldn't. But if there was a special 2 hour spinoff send-off of a TV series, that told it's own, complete story, would you be willing to consider that for Oscars? Edit: Have to agree on that second paragraph, though. The only two things consoles function off of are their leisure/convenience factor and the walled garden approach to games, but the first one has long been diminishing in both directions and the second one has always been bad for the industry on both sides of the aisle.
@qwormuli77 I would still put that in a separate category. An episode of TV, even if it’s longer than normal, is still fundamentally different from a movie based on more than just the length. A DLC is the same in my eyes, it’s an experience that, regardless of how well it tells a self-contained story, is still inextricably linked to another piece of media. Maybe movie/tv show isn’t even the best example because with a tv show you can make a movie from the characters without the need of seeing the show (think Firefly and Serenity), but with a game DLC that’s not the case. You NEED Elden Ring to even play the DLC. It can’t be judged on its own merit because it exists as a smaller piece of the full game. And it hurts the Game Awards, in my opinion, to snub a full game that deserved to be in that spot for a small chunk of a game that already won game of the year 2 years ago. We could’ve had SpaceMarine II in that slot, or Helldivers 2, or any other game that many other people liked and wanted to see on there. Instead we got lip service to an already incredibly well-loved and award-laden game. I wouldn’t even have put Rebirth in there personally, but that is its own game, so it comes down to semantics in the end.
Answered the question when you said "Imagine if Shadow of the Erdtee was a standalone release". If you have to imagine scenarios to make a game eligible for a category, it should not be eligible for that category.
So if they took the exact same DLC, dubbed it “Elden Ring 2: Electric Boogaloo,” charged $70, it’s suddenly eligible? The DLC category is meaningless when a developer can put a fully fledged game into either category but it gets skipped over on these award ceremonies (which matter a ton to devs) when they do the more consumer-friendly option of releasing as a DLC.
@@Jave7282-wu3wv yes. because at that point owning Elden Ring 1 is not a requirement to play it. Its not a question of the quality of the content, its the fact it is DLC to an existing game. It should be its own category. Its the same argument skillup made in the video "if it wasnt what it is, it would be whats it not!"
Fromsoft is literally one of the smaller parts Kadokawa, for Sony trying to purchase Kadokawa Entertainment. The volume of Manga, Anime, and Lightnovels are the more major point. This is more like when Disney bought Marvel than if say another company was buying Ubisoft.
Yes, but nuance and objective facts doesn't give clickbait material. So... SONY IS BUYING FROMSOFTWARE AND IT'S GOING TO CHAIN MIYAZAKI IN THE BASEMENT AND MAKE HIM MAKE GAMES UNTIL HE DIES!!
@user-zp8kj2cl9g What nuance? Sony ARE essentially buying Fromsoft, which means Fromsoft games not coming to PC for years, and Xbox ever. This is just as bad as M$FT buying up everything. This is obviously what game focused channels are gonna focus on..
Because he has shown time and again that he prefers a neutral stance on most dramas. Technically, he could reign in and say that DLCs aren't allowed, but he didn't, or rather according to Stacey Henley from theGamer, he *doesn't want* to care.
I disagree. The quality of this DLC surpasses that of most other games this year. So no brainer. Also Game Awards makes the rules not you. They say it’s a nominee, then it is. You don’t personally agree or like it? Make your own game awards. The whining on the internet is becoming tiresome. Final fantasy rebirth is a remake. Can also argue it does not deserve to be there. Black myth? Chinese story so unoriginal and not deserving of a nomination. No man. It is what it is. Don’t like it? Look somewhere else.
@@DeathComeInPeace you can try and go ad hominem on me but you are not bringing any real arguments to the table. You said nothing about the issue at hand but only try to discredit my argument by suggesting I am not “chill”.
@@jip5889 I am not discrediting anything, it is your opinion, just like mine. You can really easy up, unless you're in business with Geoff, you shouldn't care that much about this stupid show. It's obvious the show is bias and not objectively true amongst gamers, hence medias is 90% of the votes.
@@DeathComeInPeace Yes you tried and failed and I called you out on it. Again your response is to bring totally unrelated points without addressing my very valid points. I have the feeling you are mistaking my assertiveness with being “not chill”. I will address your points though. No I am not in cahoots with Geoff Keely. And I care as much as you care to post a comment on the web. If I shouldn’t care that much, what makes you more than me to be allowed to try to derail my argument? I could also tell you that you shouldn’t care what I posted, because I was not even replying to you.
The Golden Joystick awards proved the best route to handle this. They had a separate category for Expansions and DLCs and of course Erdtree won. Idk what Geoffe and the guys over there at TGA are thinking man. They’ve slowly become so antigamer which is so ironic lmao
Calm down man. TGA is just an awards show. They have the right to create their own categories and criteria for nomination. You can criticize them for it but to call them anti-gamer is already ludicrous. In fact, you can totally stop caring about this show. None of whatever they do will affect your gaming experience. If Elden Ring lost to God of War Ragnarok for GOTY in 2022 or if Baldur's Gate 3 lost to Tears of the Kingdom for GOTY in 2023, that would not have affected my incredible experience of playing Elden Ring or BG3. They would still be regarded as among the greatest games ever. Instead, direct your anger on publishers and developers who can actually affect your gaming experience. Maybe you can prod them to make better quality games so they don't lose nomination spots to a "mere" DLC.
Sony possibly purchasing Kadokawa should really worry people more, and it has nothing to do with them acquiring FromSoftware. What Sony really wants is the vast amount of anime, manga, and light novel rights they would get from Kadokawa, FromSoft would just be icing on the cake. Sony already owns Crunchyroll, Funimation, Aniplex, and Rightstuf. If you live in the west and watch anime, there’s a good chance Sony is somehow involved. And with Kadokawa under their wing that would only further increase their domination in that space. I’m not saying Sony would be a full on monopoly in regards to anime distribution, but they’re creeping closer and closer to becoming one.
@@altramen7045 Since you've apparently been living under a rock, monopolies are bad. And Sony basically controlling the anime/manga industry, or at the very least a majority of it, is very bad. Sony buying Kadokawa is similar to Disney buying Fox.
@@SquashyButton well actually it wouldn't be a monopoly since they wouldn't control enough of the market. Secondly, even if they did, why would that worry anyone? what did disney buying fox do? nothing, there was no change in the world. same situation here.
@@altramen7045A monopoly sure has real consequences in every area. In this context I assume if Sony thinks something is not align with there beliefs they could just decide to simply not distribute it. Not saying this will happen but monopolies tend to make censorship in some way more likely. And since these studios and streaming services are all big players i can relate to the original comment.
Its is sold as a standalone purchase that does not need ANYTHING else? So yes, its eligible. Its sold as an expansion that needs the purchase of the BASE game? So It IS NOT!! That's simple. No argue with that.
Exactly ! To play it you first have to own the base game, and then buy this expansion and you also have to beat the main game to play it. That's a lot of money and time investment just to access the dlc. This shouldn't even be an argument, it flat out should not be considered for game of the year. Why can't they have a dlc category ? It's just stupid lol
that doesn't fix anything because you still have the question of whether of not DLCs should be able to win GOTY. There is a separate category for best RPG but that doesn't stop RPGs from winning GOTY
@@bkirke then we should get a proper definition of "ongoing" first, cause just like Phantom liberty last year, one big expansion isn't the same as years of content in cases like Warframe.
How do you judge a dlc without taking account the base game. It would be like givving a sequal the award but 50% of the reason it won was because the 1st game existed.
What about every sequal that relies on the previous installments? So many story sequals like The Last of Us Part 2 or God of War Ragnorak fundamentally don't work if you have no story context from the original games, yet we don't say they don't deserve to be recognized because they are building on something. The difference between a great story DLC and a numbered sequal is that the DLC can continue both mechanically and narratively from the end of the game, while the sequal can continue the story but must reset much of the gameplay. In other story telling mediums we don't scoff at a sequal or a later season of television getting recognition despite being building off of something that exists, and DLC (in the very rare case they are truly great) are an adaptation of this for a more interactive medium.
@@BirdMoose I agree with regards to story, but I do have two thoughts. Firstly, we do need to acknowledge the gameplay side of things. While TLOU2 didn't completely re-invent how TLOU played, I think we can agree it's a different gameplay experience from it's predecessor in a way that SotET isn't. The other thing is that, with regards to story, we do need to ask whether any particular game's story is more like a sequel or like a spin-off or director's cut. I do think SotET seems to stand on it's own, but I can think of some other DLCs that definitely do not stand alone.
You have to OWN elden ring to play shadow. It should not be eligible for game of the year. It’s fantastic and deserves to be celebrated. But not this way
I can't think of why it should get a nomination, it's not a game it's a DLC, it's length doesn't matter, it's amount of content isn't what makes a game, it being a game is what makes it a game, it's the same as having a non indi game in the indi gamea because it looks like one.
Sam Lake's comments were so refreshing. Honestly Alan Wake 2 was one of the best examples of video games as art as you'd like to see and it's so good to here that its lack of massive commercial success hasn't dulled Remedy's enthusiasm
It is, but it's also a sad state of things that a game company competing with creativity and passion feels like a novel consept. Companies used to compete by making better products than competitors, but these days quality is considered superfluous.
Nah they ruined that game when they sidelined Alan Wake in his own franchise. Not surprised about the flop. No one outside some online communities liked that
I think the biggest issue is that they told up that dlcs are allowed nominated before the announcement. I don't think dlcs should be allowed, but it really feels like they are trying to undermine other games for no reasons.
Having played all 6 goty nominees, I would not be surprised SOTE wins. However, a DLC should NEVER be considered for GOTY, I don't care how good it is. A best DLC and best remake category should be made. It is far far easier to make a remake of a good game and a DLC to an already recognized game than it is to start a brand new IP from scratch and that should be celebrated more.
Do you think sequels that use the mechanics, assets, and world of the prior game as a foundation should also not be contenders, then? Something like Tears of the Kingdom.
I disagree with almost every game choice you make, we couldn't be more different (in game purchases - you're probably a righteous dude IRL), but there is simply no denying that you are VERY good at what you do here.
I think what makes me balk at the DLC nomination is that I think you can't really cleanly distinguish what made Shadow of the Erdtree good from what made Elden Ring good. Do you like SotET on it's own merits or just because it's more Elden Ring?
With Regard to the Elden Ring DLC, Hard disagree skill up. The DLC did not earn it's place on its own merits. As a DLC attached to the base game of elden ring and as you said requiring a significant portion of the game to be completed prior to even starting the game, its experience is indivisible from the base game experience. It inherits the level progression, lore and mechanics from the base game. The majority of the enemies outside of the bosses are reskins of enemies from the base game or from prior darksouls games. I'm not saying its bad but they definitely didn't reinvent the wheel here and while large I dont believe that DLC required anywhere near as much effort as creating a whole new game from scratch. If you feel this DLC deserves an award, there needs to be a DLC category otherwise you set a dangerous precedent for games releasing long, asset flip, DLC for established and beloved IPs in the hopes of snagging game of the year for a second time.
That's not the point with the game of the year through my man. The point that the best of the best of the year should be stand alone original games not something built upon another game Even REMAKES should get their own category. If you muddy the waters then no one will take game awards seriously because they are not "regulated" properly for the prestige they aspire to
Claims the games in TGA are underrepresented (Which is true) Also defends an expansion for a prior GOTY winner to have a nomination when there were plenty other new games that could have the acclaim and recognition that comes with the nom. I love Skill Up and usually his insight is great but there is honest to god no valid reason that an expansion or any DLC for that matter should ever be nominated ESPECIALLY when again the base game already won!
The Witcher 3 won game of the year in 2015 then its dlc won Role-playing GAME of the year the next year and beat out dark souls 3, an actual banger full standalone game. Where was your outrage then? I know where it was, it wasnt cool back then to share it online every waking moment.
@@rampagegamingg8434 You're assuming a lot here ha ha. We are not talking about sub genre categories (which if you want my opinion I think is welcome for expansions!) Even a best DLC category would be great cause again its DLC. GOTY should be reserved for STANDALONE new titles. Also this dorky ass retort of "Where my outrage was" back then being wanting to share my opinion online everywhere now is a bit empty when you can see my comment history here for this channel and that its pretty sparse lol. Enjoy being entitled to your stupid opinion containing wrong assumptions lol
DLCs, by their very definition, are not "the game". They're not games on their own at all. Nor are they designed to be. Ergo, they should not be nominated for Game of the Year UNLESS it's one of those rare instances where the content is released as its own separate entity (a la Dishonored: Death of the Outsider). Nominating DLC for GotY is like eating a hamburger and nominating the meat patty for Burger of the Year. Now, if the game awards wants to start nominating DLCs for recognition, I have no problem with that. But what they need to do is to is simply make a separate category that stands alongside GotY for Downloadable Content of the Year...or would that be too simple and make too much sense?
I don't think anyone's argument is about the lack of quality or value of Erdtree. I think the idea behind it is that the game has received its well-deserved flowers, and we should use this space to spotlight new games. Given the state of the industry, I'd love to see games like Astrobot and Metaphor to really shine and maybe get a boost in sales during the holiday period.
@@fragr33f74 This is one of the more nuanced takes I've seen here. By your logic, would it be acceptable to grant the award to a DLC for a game that hasn't won any awards?
I understood many reasons for helldivers 2 not winning game of the year but not even being nominated is crazy imo. Was probably the largest buzz in gaming of this year. For like 4 weeks straight everything was helldivers on social media. Haven't seen any other game this year take up that much time in the spotlight. Crazy to see some of these other games on here instead.😅
They have taken several major hits to their community, what with the PSN debacle, constant nerfing and most recently the Space Station killing divers more than bugs or automatons.
@@Dave_Langer ok... Doesn't really negate the points I've made, the game may be good, but it hasn't been smooth sailing and they've lost some good faith for that.
@@chriswihulu yes it does negate it lol What are you talking about lol The voting was now and it got teh most votes for console game of the year. Just take the L
Chefs Kiss for that Milquetoastedly tactful assessment of Wukong's "lukewarm" reception by -shills- critics. "When are you humans gonna learn, _size doesn't matter?"_ It's DLC, it should not be in the running Gabe's reasoning is trash. "I couldn't see s way to shove more phydics puzzles in your face, so why bother?" Because people wanted to see the conclusion of the _story_ Gabe. "Lazy" is that bullshit logic.
I definitely think erdtree being on game of the year list is fine. If erdtree had been released standalone, no one would bat an eye, despite the content being identical.
My eyes literally glazed over and I spaced out when Ralph started talking about Ubisoft and Ass Creed. I literally could not care less about anything Ubisoft related anymore. I couldnt even tell you what the news he was talking about was. My brain just straight up memory holed that entire segment.
@@Zories97 that's an even stupider take. You're really grasping at straws. The whole new map, new bosses, new lore, new weapon and armor, new npcs, new game mechanics... and all you have to bitch about is cookbooks 🙄
So if they took the exact same DLC, dubbed it “Elden Ring 2: Electric Boogaloo,” charged $70, it’s suddenly eligible? The DLC category is meaningless when a developer can put a fully fledged game into either category but it gets skipped over on these award ceremonies (which matter a ton to devs) when they do the more consumer-friendly option of releasing as a DLC.
This Kadokawa deal would actually cause a monopoly in the anime streaming/light novel/ manga categories, as kadakowa publish a very high % of light novel and manga (at least in the west) not to mention the push of western companys trying to have japanese censor mangas . And sony already on that censor hammer
Crazy to me that people always forget the performance issues associated with Elden ring. When SotE came out, it performed horribly across the board. People are running the ps4 version on ps5 in an attempt to get better performance and we are considering it for this years defining game? Maybe I’m just getting old and jaded
According to critics there are no performance issues, according to FromSoft it is the fault of their customers (they literally told people in their patch notes to turn off other stuff they have installed)
That's wild, I had no idea. Don't think SotE being a nominee is totally fair but it ran 60+ fps day 1 on PC for me and my friends, it sucks that it runs that poorly on consoles. ER itself did absolutely chug for the first month or so on PC though.
I haven't played it personally - unpopular opinion but i just don't think it's a pretty game, the landscape is gorgeous but most of the bosses are just ridiculous mindvomit amalgamations of nonsense and it doesn't interest me.... but didn't the dlc have to put out a patch because even the die hard fromsoft fanboys were like 'woah, that's a bit hard'? I distinctly remember accusations of artificially bloating playtime with excessive difficulty curves....
I didn’t really know much about balatro but purchased it on mobile one fateful saturday morning and promptly wasted away the rest of the entire day on the couch playing it. Totally deserves recognition.
It would surprise me if there wasn’t a controversy every year so the awards get the promotion of everyone talking about it, any news is good news for advertising. But just do a DLC/Expansion category is the sensible solution to a deliberate problem.
Metaphor or Astro Bot definitely deserve the recognition the studios passionately put into those games. There’s no reason why an ADDON to an already existing game should be nominated. There’s already precedent set for DLC last year in Best Ongoing Game with Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty so why didn’t it get nominated there like Cyberpunk’s DLC last year? It makes no sense and just ruins goty for other releases and sets an awful precedent
Hopefully Shadow of the Erdtree sweeps all categories including GOTY so that we can get Frenzied Flame levels of malding in Reddit and TH-cam. MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!
The game awards feels so centred around what I can only describe as Twitter discourse. It's just appeasement and pandering to a conversation I obviously lost when I deleted the app. No shit the Elden Ring dlc isn't game of the year. Who cares about the size? Oh, and of course the main attraction which is adverts and Geoff glazing Kojima.
geoff loves sucking on Kojimas nuts, its actually why he created the game awards, so he could force kojima to visit him, his game announcements are secondary to that.
Honestly, I think they should add two new catagories: DLC/Expansion (for stuff like Erdtree), and Game Preservation for retro compilations (stuff like Atari 50 and Capcom Fighting Collection) and remasters. It wouldn't feel right to have a remaster of an old game in the same catagory as an expansion for a newer game imo, and at this rate it feels like there is enough remasters of older games to justify its own award. Plus, people are always talking about the importance of game preservation, so why not have a shiny award as incentive.
An “Expansion of the Year” category is the only fair way. We need to have very defined lines when we consider what is / is not eligible for “Game of the Year”. In theory, that’s the whole point of the awards ceremony lol.
2:41 they should have just put Shadow of the Erdtree in the "Best Ongoing Game" category. They put Cyberpunk 2077 in there last year (to acknowledge that CDPR fixed their game ala No Man's Sky, imo), so theres no reason a game with an impactful enough DLC couldn't go into that category. I'm guessing the only reason they didn't is because they really want to give another game in that category an award and couldn't do it if Erdtree was in there. I hear the argument that it's as long as a normal game and has as much story as some new games, but it's not stand alone. I really just think they should have put it into Ongoing Game.
Yeah belatro is great Glad it’s getting a spot It might be a little more on the “I love it because it’s addictive and I’m genetically predisposed to love anything addictive” side But it was still a very well put together game.
Thete was never a cancelled spyro game. There were discussions while making crash 4 but thets about it What was cancelled was crash 5 which featured a crossover with spyro. Though you don't play as him, he just assists you with certain traversal or combat options
Could do what Steam does and have a "Labor of Love" category. Any support post-launch with DLC or significant updates should be available to choose from.
Shadow of the Erdtree doesn’t even qualify based on the rules that the VGA put out. It does not expand on the base game in meaningful ways and it does not add any new or interesting systems (Scadu-fragments are not interesting). Elden Ring is already a phenomenal game but the expansion is just more of that and it’s taking up the nomination of another game imo.
It does though. The biggest for me is the world design of Shadow of the Erdtree that is based on verticality. It is superior to the base game that depends on horizontal spread. It is the most intricate open world design I've experienced and is more reminiscent of the intricate level design usually reserved for legacy dungeons. It should be FromSoft's inspiration for any of their future open world games. And would love to see this adopted by other open world devs as well.
This. And the fact you need to not only own Elden ring, but also be pretty far into it to even access the DLC is crazy. Can’t believe we even have to be arguing about this. The golden joystick awards proved that you can just create a separate category for expansions and DLCs
I fully agree with the sentiment about the game awards. I wish they were more meaningful and had more prestige. They need to make the voting more with the players of the games. I think if winning was more representative of what consumers actually feel that winning these awards would come with more prestige and meaning. As it stands right now, it’s just another Oscar. The academy just pats their friends on the back and usually the winners don’t reflect the audience’s views.
Gee, I wonder if the journalist who pretends DEI doesn't exist will cover The Real Game Awards, created as a DEI-free alternative to The Game Awards. 🤔
The argument about the inclusion of DLCs for Game of the Year nominations actually makes a lot of sense when you look at the evolution of gaming. Years ago, it wasn't uncommon for sequels to be released within a year or two of the original game, often using the same game engine but offering new content or features. This quick turnaround resulted in sequels that expanded on the original gameplay and story, much like today's substantial DLCs. Take, for example, the sequels of the 80s and 90s. These games, like the early entries in the Street Fighter or Super Mario series, as well as games like Halo and Gears of War, were built on existing frameworks and quickly followed their predecessors to market. They were celebrated for adding significant new content and refining gameplay mechanics, similar to how modern expansions like "Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty" or "Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree" build on their base games. In the context of modern gaming, these DLCs are massive, often adding dozens of hours of gameplay, new storylines, and expanded worlds. They use the same game engine as their predecessors, much like older sequels, but due to advances in technology, they offer even richer experiences. This not only keeps the development cycle more efficient but also provides players with high-quality content without the wait for a completely new game. Digital distribution has also changed the landscape. Unlike the past, where physical production constraints meant entirely new games had to be packaged and sold, today's developers can release substantial content updates digitally. This shift has allowed for more continuous content delivery, keeping games fresh and engaging over longer periods. Given these points, arguing that significant DLCs should be eligible for Game of the Year recognition is justifiable. These expansions provide experiences comparable to full games and reflect a natural evolution in how games are developed and expanded upon. They continue the tradition of sequels, now just packaged in a format that suits the digital age, offering players deep, immersive content that enhances the original game. Recognizing them alongside full releases acknowledges their substantial contribution to the gaming experience and the industry's evolution. A decade ago, Shadow of the Erdtree would likely have been sold as “Elden Ring 2”.
You perfectly articulated my thoughts on this. Shadow of the Erdtree felt so different that I actually forgot I was playing a DLC until I accidentally clicked on the button that brought me back to the base game map. It's longer than Demon's Souls and base game DS3. It is longer than Astrobot and Balatro. It took me as much time to beat SotE as Wukong. Ballooning development times for AAA games and the digital distribution channels may just have changed the model of increasing the life of an IP through massive DLCs rather than separate games.
Geoff's desire to close himself to hollywood is pathetic man. we're winning against those snob celebs and idiotic tabloids, but its ironic that most of the Game awards judges are the same media that villainize gamers
The only DLC/Expansion I would consider as possibly being able to be game of the year would have been Red Dead Nightmare, but thats because you can buy and play it without buying and playing Red Dead Redemption. So it acts like its own seperate game.
Thank you Raycon for sponsoring this video. Go to buyraycon.com/skillup to get up to 30% off sitewide! Brought to you by Raycon
Space marine 2 should be for nomination
Will there be Metaphor review ?
I'm happy everyone is calling you out for that awful take. Rare comments W.
I mean Persona 5 Royal got a nomination, why not Elden Ring? If Elden Ring gets it, Persona 5 Royal should be awarded "Best Role Playing Game" post ceremony. Why? FF7 Remake got Best Role Playing Game in 2020 and FF7 Remake is not "one of the best games ever made", but P5R is., just like Elden Ring.
a DLC and remake should never be in that top list, even if one likes it just make a spotlight moment to say "check this out" but that's dumb its just "i like this game check it out
its not needed, liking something doesn't mean put it into an award
Nah, just create a DLC category
Yep
How many dlcs/expansions have u played this year to think..."hmmm there's a lack of best dlc category in Game Awards"
It would just be shadow of the erdtree every year
It should've just been in ongoing games like cyberpunk was when phantom liberty came out
Give better arguments like Skill Up did instead of repeating the same boring thing over and over and over.
DLCs and remasters should not be eligible for GOTY. One is extra content for a game that came out in years prior and the other is just an old title being sold again with touch ups. Remakes however should qualify as those are new games built from the ground up.
Why can’t there just be a best DLC/expansion category? It’s not like it’s a struggle to come up with 5 worthy games that actually came out in 2024 and the fact that TGA suddenly bent over backwards to include Elden Ring DLC reeks of special treatment and nepotism.
Agree, but there's still a lot of ignorant people that think a remaster is the same as a remake. So I wouldn't hold my breath.
Most sequels should probably be disqualified too. GoWR was just more content for GoW
@xlQ188x sequels are actual games? tf you talkin about
The difference between a sequel and DLC is so vague without context as to be entirely redundant. Most sequels are just more of an old thing. Hell, From's games are basically all iterative versions of the same game, with the same assets, animations and models, with DS2 being the only exception in the Souls series. Even games like Bloodborne and Sekiro borrow heavily from previous games.
Saying that DLC should not be eligible on principle is a very slippery slope. It has to be judged on a case by case basis to mean anything.
@@BigSmokePapa667 you’re just describing how games are marketed, not an actual meaningful difference. Shadow of the Erdtree is a game that released this year. I know because I bought it and played it the day it released. You can tell me it’s “technically not a game” till you’re blue in the face. It doesn’t matter. I already played the game and saw that it was, in fact, a game.
Kind weird to say that just because a dlc is long enough, it could be nominated as game of year, when there's truly incredible, very short games out there. I don't understand why we are judging this by the size of the dlc
What about quality?
And it also just wouldn’t be fun to see the same game win game of the year. Like, what if the extended version of Return of the King got nominated for Best Picture the year after the theatrical version won?
@@dalog9194 Doesnt matter imo. Same reason why BG3 didn't win best fighting game last year. It just not in that category. I think we should just put DLC and expansions in on going games, or their own category.
Except that’s not what SkillUp said in the video. The length is just one factor.
Fromsoft meat riding is out of control among game critics these days.
Legitimately extremely discrediting for the entire industry imo
Idk man it feels really weird the way people and especially reviewers have been treating Shadow of the Erdtree like a whole different thing from any other dlc in history just because of how big it is. It’s undoubtedly one of the best things that released this year but it’s still just a dlc and it’s still Elden Ring and I don’t see why it should get the spotlight when it already did the year it released. I love ER but I don’t like the special status people give to it and the dlc.
@@darrenfleming7901 I'm open to the idea of DLC being eligible, but in this case it feels less like SotE winning than it feels like ER winning again.
@@ArchHippy that's exactly how I feel about it, it's still essentially giving it twice to the same game, if anything I think a game that didn't win goty would be more deserving of winning it as a whole package after a dlc releases than a game like Elden Ring that already won it. Like how much praise are we gonna give this game before it impedes on other games that also deserve recognition, that's the concern.
Sorry that the dlc is better than half the games released this year? It deserves a slot
@CartoonHangout outside of the goty contenders what would you put up there? Shadow of the erdtree had a giant hype train behind it and delivered. People are just Salty and probably didn't play it, it's goated dlc. I could see Silent hill remake getting a spot I guess.
@@666slateran666 there’s no game that deserves goty twice. Good for you if u think SotE is the best thing you played this year, but it’s still giving the spotlight to ER for a second year, the game had it’s recognition and so did the dlc, it shouldn’t impede on the actual standalone games that released in 2024.
The drama around Disco Elysium *_IS_* Disco Elysium 2. Genius!
Best DLC of the year category, sounds like the way of the future. By price and genre
Only issue is what if all the dlc sucks? Like what if all the dlc sold is just skins? Do we reward that?
@Nanoqtran Depends on the fan base vote, the difference between Expansions and best live service of the year could be another section also. Expansions from Triple A Devs are usually a big deal when a company does it right. Best example I can think of is Phantom Liberty Cyber Punk
@@NanoqtranI doubt that will ever happen. Sure there’s not always erdtree level dlc released every year but there’s always some good dlc at least for smaller games.
@@Nanoqtran this is a silly question. There's never been a year of DLC when there was only skins. Might as well ask if we should have a GOTY category if we only get card games one year. You're creating a reality that will never exist.
Can anyone come up with any other dlc from this year that potentially deserves a nomination though?
You should give more spotlight to the BAFTA awards when it comes around since that is basically what you want from the Game Awards. Recently watched the last year one and it was pretty much everything I want the Game Awards to be. Not focused on celebrities, game trailers, ads etc and just focused on the awards.
Oh god I am not ready for the cringy celebrity appearances…
Hey not to imply anything but what's with VERY similar comments about BAFTA from different accounts?
@@scout4996 bots are copying other comments to have a realistic comment
BAFTA definitely is better tbh. Don’t get me wrong, they be on some BS with their nominations too, but they’re definitely more fair and they nominate a lot of under the radar games that are great.
they’re two very different shows, you can enjoy your popularity contest/trailers in TGA and then enjoy the actual awards show with BAFTA
Remember when Cyberpunk 2077 got "Best Ongoing Game" because it received patches and one DLC?
if anything, "best ongoing game" is what fits the most with DLC's
Woah! You released an unfinished turd and made it playable. Here take this award!
So I’m not the only who thought that
No Man's Sky still is constantly putting out new updates transforming the game in different ways, all for free and they are not on the list
I certainly do and I'm sick of the revisionist history Cyberpunk fans spout. Fixing your shit and having a halfway decent expansion doesn't make it better than the ongoing support FFXIV, Genshin Impact, No Man's Sky or Path of Exile receive.
The biggest reason why I'm against Elden Ring's nomination this year, especially if it ends up winning, is because it feels like the Game Awards and their associated board of judges are bending over backwards to disregard titles that fall outside of the usual GOTY categories. Outside of Elden Ring, the arguable frontrunners are Astro Bot(a 3D platformer), Balatro(a card game) and Metaphor(a turn-based JRPG), all of which are genres that tend to get snubbed for those with wider appeal, such as open world titles or linear narrative-driven action/adventure games. There are, of course exceptions to this. It Takes Two won in 2021 (though that was a fairly barren year), and though not a JRPG and therefore more statistically likely to win, Baldur's Gate 3 was still turn-based and won in a very stacked year. But there is a clear bias towards established mega franchises in well-trodded genres for game of the year. In spite of Astro Bot being polished to a mirror shine and near flawless for its entire runtime, it's an 8-10 hour long 3D platformer with minimal story that prioritizes playful ideas and fun level design, which can't seem to compete with a 50-60 hour long sprawling gigantic open-world even if it still has tons of technical issues and isn't even released as its own boxed product.
Agree with this, fitting for an award show lol
Anyone else feel that “Prey Mooncrash” was top of mind when a DLC being game of the year, was being discussed?
@@walterreid So much so that I went back and checked if it was in Ralph's yearly recap. But he started doing that the next year. Doh!
The entire game was criminally undervalued. My GotY without a doubt.
Prey for the forgotten
Fantastic game with an even better DLC. That will forever be one of my favorite games of all time.
Yes 💯
They should also add the categories "worst publisher of the year" and "worst CEO of the year".
We really need a video game razzies award
EA wins every year
Pretty sure that would end any kind of sponsorship or advertisement deal they currently have... On second, why not, then we may see them end the Game Awards 😂
Why do you want to make a category for just Ubisoft and EA?
@@Ender11037 Yeah, this category would just give EA and Ubi yearly wins lol
Why not just have a DLC category?
Because Geoff keighly needs to fit more games previews.
Need to conveniently fit in some games
How about drop it in “best ongoing game”. It would make the award more interesting, at least.
FromSoft is unique in that they're basically the only company now that makes DLCs that are basically full games (this was a lot more common for pc games in the 90s and early 2000s, they were called expansions. There are indie devs that offer DLC that's good bang for the buck like Dead Cells and Vampire Survivors), but in the AAA pretty much all DLC is trash. From is in a unique position, and I think it's completely appropriate to count their DLC as a full game.
You don't have many DLCs each year that are worthy of an award, the vast majority are just content bundles, skin packs, side quests, etc.
If blood and wine couldn’t be nominated because it’s DLC, then neither can shadow of the erdtree
that is so true, If there was a DLC worthy of GOTY it was Blood and Wine, it felt like a completely new game, it's still the highest rated DLC on Metacritic.
And that was 8 years ago. I guess something had change as of late to now allow expansions to be nominated.
It could have, but it was only nominated for the best RPG game (ironically won over Dark Souls 3).
It was for best RPG, and won (over Dark Souls 3, btw)
Blood and Wine is still mediocre tho 😬🫣
I'm sure this isn't the most popular part of your show but thanks so much for always taking the time out to mention a cool indie or upcoming project. I never would have heard of Miniatures otherwise and it's definitely something I want to check out.
I disagree with Shadow of the Erdtree deserving to get Game of the year. Did Witcher 3 Blood and Wine get a chance? I'd compare them as absolutely amazing additions to an absolutely amazing game...
To remove this argument in the future, there should be a category for best DLC... There have been many great ones so far so I think it should be rewarded aswell.
I'd argue it is partly Geoff's fault. Geoff is one of the main big wigs of The Game Awards and would have been one of the people to decide if DLCs and Expansions were allowed to be Game of the Year. It remains to be seen if he agreed to the idea or not, but I'm leaning on he did because it builds hype and gets money.
I really think people are missing the point of this. Like Skill Up said, we should just put Outer Wilds in every category. Game of the Year in our hearts.
Funny enough there were people saying Outer Wilds' DLC should have gotten a GOTY nomination.
@TheSergio1021 Honestly with SotE now being nominated, Echoes definitely deserved it too.
@@TheSergio1021 me. I've been saying this to my friends the past few days.
.... that's certainly what I got from it, yes
I listen to a podcast that refers to these as GOTOYs, Games Of The Other Years
I know Fromsoft is on people's mind, but buying Kadokawa would get Sony access of so much of the anime/manga industry. Its basically the Japanese version of Disney buying Fox.
DLC shouldn't be considered for GOTY. That feels like a TV episode winning the Oscar for best film. There are easily enough DLC's dropping in a year to have enough entries, just give each category it's own award.
Also, I don't really like to agree with CEOs but I agree with Phil Spencer when he said that consoles don't really have that much to offer anymore. PCs are strong as hell, and are way more accessible than buying a $500 PS5 and then a $600 PS5 Pro two years later, plus a $400 Xbox Series whatever. I like their approach to just making more games and making their titles accessible as possible. I definitely feel like that will give Xbox more space to grow their games portfolios to include more indies and more high budget games.
I think most DLC shouldn't. But if there was a special 2 hour spinoff send-off of a TV series, that told it's own, complete story, would you be willing to consider that for Oscars?
Edit: Have to agree on that second paragraph, though. The only two things consoles function off of are their leisure/convenience factor and the walled garden approach to games, but the first one has long been diminishing in both directions and the second one has always been bad for the industry on both sides of the aisle.
@qwormuli77 I would still put that in a separate category. An episode of TV, even if it’s longer than normal, is still fundamentally different from a movie based on more than just the length. A DLC is the same in my eyes, it’s an experience that, regardless of how well it tells a self-contained story, is still inextricably linked to another piece of media. Maybe movie/tv show isn’t even the best example because with a tv show you can make a movie from the characters without the need of seeing the show (think Firefly and Serenity), but with a game DLC that’s not the case. You NEED Elden Ring to even play the DLC. It can’t be judged on its own merit because it exists as a smaller piece of the full game. And it hurts the Game Awards, in my opinion, to snub a full game that deserved to be in that spot for a small chunk of a game that already won game of the year 2 years ago. We could’ve had SpaceMarine II in that slot, or Helldivers 2, or any other game that many other people liked and wanted to see on there. Instead we got lip service to an already incredibly well-loved and award-laden game. I wouldn’t even have put Rebirth in there personally, but that is its own game, so it comes down to semantics in the end.
Answered the question when you said "Imagine if Shadow of the Erdtee was a standalone release". If you have to imagine scenarios to make a game eligible for a category, it should not be eligible for that category.
Honestly this is probably the best take - if you have to say 'but if you imagine it was a different thing' than you already know it shouldn't be there
Ok debate lord Andy congrats you won vs the TH-cam video lmao
Good point
So if they took the exact same DLC, dubbed it “Elden Ring 2: Electric Boogaloo,” charged $70, it’s suddenly eligible?
The DLC category is meaningless when a developer can put a fully fledged game into either category but it gets skipped over on these award ceremonies (which matter a ton to devs) when they do the more consumer-friendly option of releasing as a DLC.
@@Jave7282-wu3wv yes. because at that point owning Elden Ring 1 is not a requirement to play it. Its not a question of the quality of the content, its the fact it is DLC to an existing game. It should be its own category.
Its the same argument skillup made in the video "if it wasnt what it is, it would be whats it not!"
Fromsoft is literally one of the smaller parts Kadokawa, for Sony trying to purchase Kadokawa Entertainment. The volume of Manga, Anime, and Lightnovels are the more major point. This is more like when Disney bought Marvel than if say another company was buying Ubisoft.
Yes, but nuance and objective facts doesn't give clickbait material. So... SONY IS BUYING FROMSOFTWARE AND IT'S GOING TO CHAIN MIYAZAKI IN THE BASEMENT AND MAKE HIM MAKE GAMES UNTIL HE DIES!!
Yeah, I really don't wanna see sony get any more power in anime/manga/LN industry. Look at what they did to funimation.
Sony buying Kadokawa would be devastating. Also I don't want them to kill Chunsoft!
"this week in video games"
And you're surprised that they didn't discuss all the anime and manga details of the publisher?
@user-zp8kj2cl9g What nuance? Sony ARE essentially buying Fromsoft, which means Fromsoft games not coming to PC for years, and Xbox ever. This is just as bad as M$FT buying up everything. This is obviously what game focused channels are gonna focus on..
How is it not Geoff's fault when he should have done better in managing the award categories?
because its never his fault. it always has to be someone else's fault. Are you new to the tech/videogame industry??
Because he doesn't decide any of it
Because he has shown time and again that he prefers a neutral stance on most dramas. Technically, he could reign in and say that DLCs aren't allowed, but he didn't, or rather according to Stacey Henley from theGamer, he *doesn't want* to care.
“Pretend this was a stand alone release”…. Yeah, but it isn’t? Does it deserve an award? Absolutely. Game of the year? No.
I disagree. The quality of this DLC surpasses that of most other games this year. So no brainer. Also Game Awards makes the rules not you. They say it’s a nominee, then it is. You don’t personally agree or like it? Make your own game awards. The whining on the internet is becoming tiresome. Final fantasy rebirth is a remake. Can also argue it does not deserve to be there. Black myth? Chinese story so unoriginal and not deserving of a nomination. No man. It is what it is. Don’t like it? Look somewhere else.
@@jip5889 Yoo dude, chill! It is on the internet so people have an opinion on it. Calm down.
@@DeathComeInPeace you can try and go ad hominem on me but you are not bringing any real arguments to the table. You said nothing about the issue at hand but only try to discredit my argument by suggesting I am not “chill”.
@@jip5889 I am not discrediting anything, it is your opinion, just like mine. You can really easy up, unless you're in business with Geoff, you shouldn't care that much about this stupid show.
It's obvious the show is bias and not objectively true amongst gamers, hence medias is 90% of the votes.
@@DeathComeInPeace Yes you tried and failed and I called you out on it. Again your response is to bring totally unrelated points without addressing my very valid points. I have the feeling you are mistaking my assertiveness with being “not chill”. I will address your points though. No I am not in cahoots with Geoff Keely. And I care as much as you care to post a comment on the web. If I shouldn’t care that much, what makes you more than me to be allowed to try to derail my argument? I could also tell you that you shouldn’t care what I posted, because I was not even replying to you.
The Golden Joystick awards proved the best route to handle this. They had a separate category for Expansions and DLCs and of course Erdtree won. Idk what Geoffe and the guys over there at TGA are thinking man. They’ve slowly become so antigamer which is so ironic lmao
Calm down man. TGA is just an awards show. They have the right to create their own categories and criteria for nomination. You can criticize them for it but to call them anti-gamer is already ludicrous. In fact, you can totally stop caring about this show. None of whatever they do will affect your gaming experience. If Elden Ring lost to God of War Ragnarok for GOTY in 2022 or if Baldur's Gate 3 lost to Tears of the Kingdom for GOTY in 2023, that would not have affected my incredible experience of playing Elden Ring or BG3. They would still be regarded as among the greatest games ever. Instead, direct your anger on publishers and developers who can actually affect your gaming experience. Maybe you can prod them to make better quality games so they don't lose nomination spots to a "mere" DLC.
Animal Well absolutely deserved a nomination.
Sony possibly purchasing Kadokawa should really worry people more, and it has nothing to do with them acquiring FromSoftware. What Sony really wants is the vast amount of anime, manga, and light novel rights they would get from Kadokawa, FromSoft would just be icing on the cake.
Sony already owns Crunchyroll, Funimation, Aniplex, and Rightstuf. If you live in the west and watch anime, there’s a good chance Sony is somehow involved. And with Kadokawa under their wing that would only further increase their domination in that space. I’m not saying Sony would be a full on monopoly in regards to anime distribution, but they’re creeping closer and closer to becoming one.
so... why should I be worried about that?
@@altramen7045 Since you've apparently been living under a rock, monopolies are bad. And Sony basically controlling the anime/manga industry, or at the very least a majority of it, is very bad. Sony buying Kadokawa is similar to Disney buying Fox.
@@SquashyButton well actually it wouldn't be a monopoly since they wouldn't control enough of the market. Secondly, even if they did, why would that worry anyone? what did disney buying fox do? nothing, there was no change in the world. same situation here.
@@altramen7045A monopoly sure has real consequences in every area. In this context I assume if Sony thinks something is not align with there beliefs they could just decide to simply not distribute it. Not saying this will happen but monopolies tend to make censorship in some way more likely. And since these studios and streaming services are all big players i can relate to the original comment.
@thatsmaik and the mangaka would just go to a new publisher. Sony wouldn't have a true monopoly.
I feel like this should have been something that the Game Awards figured out from the beginning.
I can't wait for celebrities and three fortnite ads shuttering excellent creatives from having their time on stage this year
Its is sold as a standalone purchase that does not need ANYTHING else? So yes, its eligible. Its sold as an expansion that needs the purchase of the BASE game? So It IS NOT!! That's simple. No argue with that.
Exactly ! To play it you first have to own the base game, and then buy this expansion and you also have to beat the main game to play it. That's a lot of money and time investment just to access the dlc. This shouldn't even be an argument, it flat out should not be considered for game of the year. Why can't they have a dlc category ? It's just stupid lol
0:14 GAMERS!
Thank you, GAMERS
Sam Lake loves games so much he somehow even looks and talks like a character in a cutscene.
It's because he is Max Payne.
an easy fix to this is make a separate for category for dlc no?
No because there would be no competition
that doesn't fix anything because you still have the question of whether of not DLCs should be able to win GOTY. There is a separate category for best RPG but that doesn't stop RPGs from winning GOTY
Let's be real, they do something like this EVERY year to drive attention and money.
Best "ongoing" game is a category. It should be under there. So should FF7 Rebirth.
@@bkirke then we should get a proper definition of "ongoing" first, cause just like Phantom liberty last year, one big expansion isn't the same as years of content in cases like Warframe.
How do you judge a dlc without taking account the base game. It would be like givving a sequal the award but 50% of the reason it won was because the 1st game existed.
Clearly you haven’t played Shadow of the Erdtree lol.
What about every sequal that relies on the previous installments? So many story sequals like The Last of Us Part 2 or God of War Ragnorak fundamentally don't work if you have no story context from the original games, yet we don't say they don't deserve to be recognized because they are building on something. The difference between a great story DLC and a numbered sequal is that the DLC can continue both mechanically and narratively from the end of the game, while the sequal can continue the story but must reset much of the gameplay.
In other story telling mediums we don't scoff at a sequal or a later season of television getting recognition despite being building off of something that exists, and DLC (in the very rare case they are truly great) are an adaptation of this for a more interactive medium.
Maybe because sequels can also get awards.....
@@BirdMoose I agree with regards to story, but I do have two thoughts. Firstly, we do need to acknowledge the gameplay side of things. While TLOU2 didn't completely re-invent how TLOU played, I think we can agree it's a different gameplay experience from it's predecessor in a way that SotET isn't.
The other thing is that, with regards to story, we do need to ask whether any particular game's story is more like a sequel or like a spin-off or director's cut. I do think SotET seems to stand on it's own, but I can think of some other DLCs that definitely do not stand alone.
@@parisolivarious SotE is just more Elden Ring nothing more, don't pretend as if it isn't.
You have to OWN elden ring to play shadow. It should not be eligible for game of the year.
It’s fantastic and deserves to be celebrated. But not this way
I can't think of why it should get a nomination, it's not a game it's a DLC, it's length doesn't matter, it's amount of content isn't what makes a game, it being a game is what makes it a game, it's the same as having a non indi game in the indi gamea because it looks like one.
Sam Lake's comments were so refreshing. Honestly Alan Wake 2 was one of the best examples of video games as art as you'd like to see and it's so good to here that its lack of massive commercial success hasn't dulled Remedy's enthusiasm
it isn't
It is, but it's also a sad state of things that a game company competing with creativity and passion feels like a novel consept. Companies used to compete by making better products than competitors, but these days quality is considered superfluous.
Alan Wake 2 feels like a game made for snobs honestly, nobody outside of Reddit cares one bit and that shows in the sales.
Nah they ruined that game when they sidelined Alan Wake in his own franchise. Not surprised about the flop. No one outside some online communities liked that
@attilab317 you didn't enjoy the game?
I think the biggest issue is that they told up that dlcs are allowed nominated before the announcement.
I don't think dlcs should be allowed, but it really feels like they are trying to undermine other games for no reasons.
Do sales matter when it comes to GOTY? If they do, then shut up.
@@ericscasny9312 If sales mattered, then FIFA is a GOTY, idiot.
@@ericscasny9312popular game does not mean best game. Or else fortnite would win goty
Also, is only a game man. No need to be so hostile
What other games deserve GotY that werent nominated?
@@TheSergio1021 NCAA College Football
Having played all 6 goty nominees, I would not be surprised SOTE wins. However, a DLC should NEVER be considered for GOTY, I don't care how good it is.
A best DLC and best remake category should be made. It is far far easier to make a remake of a good game and a DLC to an already recognized game than it is to start a brand new IP from scratch and that should be celebrated more.
How do you measure success for games? SALES!!!!!!! It sold like crazy. The developers who made it deserve to be on the biggest stage.
@@ericscasny9312 "And for the 12th year in a row Call of Duty wins goty!" this isn't nor should be how it works lol.
@@ericscasny9312So you want COD to win every year?
Do you think sequels that use the mechanics, assets, and world of the prior game as a foundation should also not be contenders, then? Something like Tears of the Kingdom.
Erdtree is NOT better than Metaphor, Astro Bot, or Rebirth.
You should have your mouth washed out with soap.
I disagree with almost every game choice you make, we couldn't be more different (in game purchases - you're probably a righteous dude IRL), but there is simply no denying that you are VERY good at what you do here.
I think what makes me balk at the DLC nomination is that I think you can't really cleanly distinguish what made Shadow of the Erdtree good from what made Elden Ring good. Do you like SotET on it's own merits or just because it's more Elden Ring?
With Regard to the Elden Ring DLC, Hard disagree skill up. The DLC did not earn it's place on its own merits. As a DLC attached to the base game of elden ring and as you said requiring a significant portion of the game to be completed prior to even starting the game, its experience is indivisible from the base game experience. It inherits the level progression, lore and mechanics from the base game. The majority of the enemies outside of the bosses are reskins of enemies from the base game or from prior darksouls games. I'm not saying its bad but they definitely didn't reinvent the wheel here and while large I dont believe that DLC required anywhere near as much effort as creating a whole new game from scratch. If you feel this DLC deserves an award, there needs to be a DLC category otherwise you set a dangerous precedent for games releasing long, asset flip, DLC for established and beloved IPs in the hopes of snagging game of the year for a second time.
If Blood and Wine wasn't, this one shouldn't either
That's not the point with the game of the year through my man. The point that the best of the best of the year should be stand alone original games not something built upon another game Even REMAKES should get their own category. If you muddy the waters then no one will take game awards seriously because they are not "regulated" properly for the prestige they aspire to
Claims the games in TGA are underrepresented (Which is true)
Also defends an expansion for a prior GOTY winner to have a nomination when there were plenty other new games that could have the acclaim and recognition that comes with the nom.
I love Skill Up and usually his insight is great but there is honest to god no valid reason that an expansion or any DLC for that matter should ever be nominated ESPECIALLY when again the base game already won!
The Witcher 3 won game of the year in 2015 then its dlc won Role-playing GAME of the year the next year and beat out dark souls 3, an actual banger full standalone game.
Where was your outrage then?
I know where it was, it wasnt cool back then to share it online every waking moment.
@@rampagegamingg8434 I dunno, I wasn't happy with it back then either.
@@rampagegamingg8434 You're assuming a lot here ha ha. We are not talking about sub genre categories (which if you want my opinion I think is welcome for expansions!) Even a best DLC category would be great cause again its DLC. GOTY should be reserved for STANDALONE new titles. Also this dorky ass retort of "Where my outrage was" back then being wanting to share my opinion online everywhere now is a bit empty when you can see my comment history here for this channel and that its pretty sparse lol. Enjoy being entitled to your stupid opinion containing wrong assumptions lol
DLCs, by their very definition, are not "the game". They're not games on their own at all. Nor are they designed to be. Ergo, they should not be nominated for Game of the Year UNLESS it's one of those rare instances where the content is released as its own separate entity (a la Dishonored: Death of the Outsider).
Nominating DLC for GotY is like eating a hamburger and nominating the meat patty for Burger of the Year. Now, if the game awards wants to start nominating DLCs for recognition, I have no problem with that. But what they need to do is to is simply make a separate category that stands alongside GotY for Downloadable Content of the Year...or would that be too simple and make too much sense?
I don't think anyone's argument is about the lack of quality or value of Erdtree. I think the idea behind it is that the game has received its well-deserved flowers, and we should use this space to spotlight new games.
Given the state of the industry, I'd love to see games like Astrobot and Metaphor to really shine and maybe get a boost in sales during the holiday period.
@@fragr33f74 This is one of the more nuanced takes I've seen here. By your logic, would it be acceptable to grant the award to a DLC for a game that hasn't won any awards?
I understood many reasons for helldivers 2 not winning game of the year but not even being nominated is crazy imo. Was probably the largest buzz in gaming of this year. For like 4 weeks straight everything was helldivers on social media. Haven't seen any other game this year take up that much time in the spotlight. Crazy to see some of these other games on here instead.😅
They have taken several major hits to their community, what with the PSN debacle, constant nerfing and most recently the Space Station killing divers more than bugs or automatons.
@@chriswihulu Hell Divers 2 won game of the year at the golden joystick award and that is voted by fans
They also didn't really add anything to the game since launch other than new war bonds
@@Dave_Langer ok... Doesn't really negate the points I've made, the game may be good, but it hasn't been smooth sailing and they've lost some good faith for that.
@@chriswihulu yes it does negate it lol What are you talking about lol The voting was now and it got teh most votes for console game of the year. Just take the L
Chefs Kiss for that Milquetoastedly tactful assessment of Wukong's "lukewarm" reception by -shills- critics.
"When are you humans gonna learn, _size doesn't matter?"_ It's DLC, it should not be in the running
Gabe's reasoning is trash. "I couldn't see s way to shove more phydics puzzles in your face, so why bother?" Because people wanted to see the conclusion of the _story_ Gabe. "Lazy" is that bullshit logic.
I definitely think erdtree being on game of the year list is fine.
If erdtree had been released standalone, no one would bat an eye, despite the content being identical.
My eyes literally glazed over and I spaced out when Ralph started talking about Ubisoft and Ass Creed. I literally could not care less about anything Ubisoft related anymore. I couldnt even tell you what the news he was talking about was. My brain just straight up memory holed that entire segment.
Horse armor can last thousands of hours, guess it should be nominated game of the year.
What a terrible strawman.
Horse armor is nowhere near the amount of new content Shadow of the Erdtree provides.
@ it was just in reference to the length.
@@TheSergio1021ah yes new content such as the 100th cookbook you’ll never use that you find when you round a corner or enter the end of a dungeon
Yeah yeah, meme armor bad.
Shivering isles was genuinely an incredible expansion though, probably the high water mark for Bethesda in terms of DLC
@@Zories97 that's an even stupider take. You're really grasping at straws. The whole new map, new bosses, new lore, new weapon and armor, new npcs, new game mechanics... and all you have to bitch about is cookbooks 🙄
Here before the Game Awards cuts the video short to put up Fortnite Ads
14:59 thank you skill up for mentioning gog preservation program.
Shadow of the Erdtree was the single best peice of gaming content to come out in 2024
Shadow of the Erdtree is to Elden Ring as Tears of the Kingdom is to Breath of the Wild.
Do you think SkillUp records a fresh "Gamers!" introduction each video or just has a recording where he nailed it and just uses that every time?
That was a remarkably good Tim Allen noise
Nominating a DLC for GOTY would be like nominating the DVD extended cut of a movie for best movie a year after the original already won
So if they took the exact same DLC, dubbed it “Elden Ring 2: Electric Boogaloo,” charged $70, it’s suddenly eligible?
The DLC category is meaningless when a developer can put a fully fledged game into either category but it gets skipped over on these award ceremonies (which matter a ton to devs) when they do the more consumer-friendly option of releasing as a DLC.
This Kadokawa deal would actually cause a monopoly in the anime streaming/light novel/ manga categories, as kadakowa publish a very high % of light novel and manga (at least in the west) not to mention the push of western companys trying to have japanese censor mangas . And sony already on that censor hammer
Your Outer Wilds Timestamp for TWIVG: 1:14 ✅
Balatro 100% deserve all of it’s nominations
i can't lie. i feel like if i miss this year's game awards, i won't feel a damn thing
12:02: Talking about sliding on an ice path and only mentioning Silver Surfer and Frozone.
The OG X-Man, Iceman: "Am I a joke to you?"
So I guess, Lord of the Rings the extended editions should've been nominated for Oscars too.
Crazy to me that people always forget the performance issues associated with Elden ring. When SotE came out, it performed horribly across the board. People are running the ps4 version on ps5 in an attempt to get better performance and we are considering it for this years defining game? Maybe I’m just getting old and jaded
According to critics there are no performance issues, according to FromSoft it is the fault of their customers (they literally told people in their patch notes to turn off other stuff they have installed)
Agreed, even the PS5 Pro can't get it up to 60fps in any mode. That sounds like a flawed-but-promising game at best, not multiple GOTY
That's wild, I had no idea. Don't think SotE being a nominee is totally fair but it ran 60+ fps day 1 on PC for me and my friends, it sucks that it runs that poorly on consoles. ER itself did absolutely chug for the first month or so on PC though.
@Rhodion1019 yeah it's not the ideal PC port, but that's absolutely the place to play it
I haven't played it personally - unpopular opinion but i just don't think it's a pretty game, the landscape is gorgeous but most of the bosses are just ridiculous mindvomit amalgamations of nonsense and it doesn't interest me.... but didn't the dlc have to put out a patch because even the die hard fromsoft fanboys were like 'woah, that's a bit hard'? I distinctly remember accusations of artificially bloating playtime with excessive difficulty curves....
DLC shouldn't be in the GOTY category. Elden Ring had its time, the category should be for newer releases.
I didn’t really know much about balatro but purchased it on mobile one fateful saturday morning and promptly wasted away the rest of the entire day on the couch playing it. Totally deserves recognition.
It would surprise me if there wasn’t a controversy every year so the awards get the promotion of everyone talking about it, any news is good news for advertising.
But just do a DLC/Expansion category is the sensible solution to a deliberate problem.
BEASTIEBALL is so great! I played the demo and it was the best "pokemon clone" I've played so far. Amazing ideia, visuals and presentation
Metaphor or Astro Bot definitely deserve the recognition the studios passionately put into those games. There’s no reason why an ADDON to an already existing game should be nominated. There’s already precedent set for DLC last year in Best Ongoing Game with Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty so why didn’t it get nominated there like Cyberpunk’s DLC last year? It makes no sense and just ruins goty for other releases and sets an awful precedent
DLC is, by definition, part of an ongoing game. Just include the game in best ongoing
Hopefully Shadow of the Erdtree sweeps all categories including GOTY so that we can get Frenzied Flame levels of malding in Reddit and TH-cam.
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!
One of my favorite skillup bits was when he kept making Outer Wilds his game of the year. Happy to hear that hasn't changed
Just a huge thank you for not playing loud indie-rock in the background this time. It makes this video way easier to listen to and to focus on.
9:45 man had me during a spit take with this one.
They nominated a DLC over helldivers 2. What a clown show
The game awards feels so centred around what I can only describe as Twitter discourse.
It's just appeasement and pandering to a conversation I obviously lost when I deleted the app. No shit the Elden Ring dlc isn't game of the year. Who cares about the size?
Oh, and of course the main attraction which is adverts and Geoff glazing Kojima.
geoff loves sucking on Kojimas nuts, its actually why he created the game awards, so he could force kojima to visit him, his game announcements are secondary to that.
Honestly, I think they should add two new catagories: DLC/Expansion (for stuff like Erdtree), and Game Preservation for retro compilations (stuff like Atari 50 and Capcom Fighting Collection) and remasters. It wouldn't feel right to have a remaster of an old game in the same catagory as an expansion for a newer game imo, and at this rate it feels like there is enough remasters of older games to justify its own award. Plus, people are always talking about the importance of game preservation, so why not have a shiny award as incentive.
An “Expansion of the Year” category is the only fair way. We need to have very defined lines when we consider what is / is not eligible for “Game of the Year”. In theory, that’s the whole point of the awards ceremony lol.
2:41 they should have just put Shadow of the Erdtree in the "Best Ongoing Game" category. They put Cyberpunk 2077 in there last year (to acknowledge that CDPR fixed their game ala No Man's Sky, imo), so theres no reason a game with an impactful enough DLC couldn't go into that category.
I'm guessing the only reason they didn't is because they really want to give another game in that category an award and couldn't do it if Erdtree was in there.
I hear the argument that it's as long as a normal game and has as much story as some new games, but it's not stand alone.
I really just think they should have put it into Ongoing Game.
2:29 is that you Donkey?
So Thursdays now? I’m not happy but I’ll live.
I thought the same thing yesterday 😂
Yeah belatro is great Glad it’s getting a spot It might be a little more on the “I love it because it’s addictive and I’m genetically predisposed to love anything addictive” side But it was still a very well put together game.
inb4 Nintendo patents a volleyball mechanic to sue Beastieballs devs
You always keep it interesting!
3:20 Really? Who selected the judges?
Thete was never a cancelled spyro game. There were discussions while making crash 4 but thets about it
What was cancelled was crash 5 which featured a crossover with spyro. Though you don't play as him, he just assists you with certain traversal or combat options
Could do what Steam does and have a "Labor of Love" category. Any support post-launch with DLC or significant updates should be available to choose from.
Balatro, the quintessential game.
I had to uninstall it to play other things and have a life. 😂
10 out 10.
“It earned it on its own merits!”
But it didn’t? It’s literally dlc meaning it HAS to go from the original game.
L take.
Communists usually have bad takes
Shadow of the Erdtree doesn’t even qualify based on the rules that the VGA put out. It does not expand on the base game in meaningful ways and it does not add any new or interesting systems (Scadu-fragments are not interesting). Elden Ring is already a phenomenal game but the expansion is just more of that and it’s taking up the nomination of another game imo.
@@SirShadeyy This. Game changing DLC can and does exist, but this is just standard DLC on a very good game.
It does though. The biggest for me is the world design of Shadow of the Erdtree that is based on verticality. It is superior to the base game that depends on horizontal spread. It is the most intricate open world design I've experienced and is more reminiscent of the intricate level design usually reserved for legacy dungeons. It should be FromSoft's inspiration for any of their future open world games. And would love to see this adopted by other open world devs as well.
A DLC, no matter the length, or quality, is not a stand alone game. Either make a Best DLC category, or leave DLCs completely out of the awards.
This. And the fact you need to not only own Elden ring, but also be pretty far into it to even access the DLC is crazy. Can’t believe we even have to be arguing about this. The golden joystick awards proved that you can just create a separate category for expansions and DLCs
I fully agree with the sentiment about the game awards. I wish they were more meaningful and had more prestige. They need to make the voting more with the players of the games. I think if winning was more representative of what consumers actually feel that winning these awards would come with more prestige and meaning.
As it stands right now, it’s just another Oscar. The academy just pats their friends on the back and usually the winners don’t reflect the audience’s views.
Gee, I wonder if the journalist who pretends DEI doesn't exist will cover The Real Game Awards, created as a DEI-free alternative to The Game Awards. 🤔
The argument about the inclusion of DLCs for Game of the Year nominations actually makes a lot of sense when you look at the evolution of gaming. Years ago, it wasn't uncommon for sequels to be released within a year or two of the original game, often using the same game engine but offering new content or features. This quick turnaround resulted in sequels that expanded on the original gameplay and story, much like today's substantial DLCs.
Take, for example, the sequels of the 80s and 90s. These games, like the early entries in the Street Fighter or Super Mario series, as well as games like Halo and Gears of War, were built on existing frameworks and quickly followed their predecessors to market. They were celebrated for adding significant new content and refining gameplay mechanics, similar to how modern expansions like "Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty" or "Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree" build on their base games.
In the context of modern gaming, these DLCs are massive, often adding dozens of hours of gameplay, new storylines, and expanded worlds. They use the same game engine as their predecessors, much like older sequels, but due to advances in technology, they offer even richer experiences. This not only keeps the development cycle more efficient but also provides players with high-quality content without the wait for a completely new game.
Digital distribution has also changed the landscape. Unlike the past, where physical production constraints meant entirely new games had to be packaged and sold, today's developers can release substantial content updates digitally. This shift has allowed for more continuous content delivery, keeping games fresh and engaging over longer periods.
Given these points, arguing that significant DLCs should be eligible for Game of the Year recognition is justifiable. These expansions provide experiences comparable to full games and reflect a natural evolution in how games are developed and expanded upon. They continue the tradition of sequels, now just packaged in a format that suits the digital age, offering players deep, immersive content that enhances the original game. Recognizing them alongside full releases acknowledges their substantial contribution to the gaming experience and the industry's evolution.
A decade ago, Shadow of the Erdtree would likely have been sold as “Elden Ring 2”.
You perfectly articulated my thoughts on this. Shadow of the Erdtree felt so different that I actually forgot I was playing a DLC until I accidentally clicked on the button that brought me back to the base game map. It's longer than Demon's Souls and base game DS3. It is longer than Astrobot and Balatro. It took me as much time to beat SotE as Wukong. Ballooning development times for AAA games and the digital distribution channels may just have changed the model of increasing the life of an IP through massive DLCs rather than separate games.
Geoff's desire to close himself to hollywood is pathetic man. we're winning against those snob celebs and idiotic tabloids, but its ironic that most of the Game awards judges are the same media that villainize gamers
The only DLC/Expansion I would consider as possibly being able to be game of the year would have been Red Dead Nightmare, but thats because you can buy and play it without buying and playing Red Dead Redemption. So it acts like its own seperate game.
Stella Blade should then be nominated twice in my opinion !
Found the coomer