Lord Soth | DragonLance Saga
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ต.ค. 2021
- He was a paragon of the Knights of Solamnia. His tragic fall from grace could be blamed on his own ambition, his lack of self control, and giving into his baser instincts; but there is no mistake that he is the cause of his downfall. Let’s learn more about Lord Loren Soth, Knight of the Black Rose. Buy Lord Soth: amzn.to/3aTqhe8
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Transcript
His tragic tale is widely known because he had the opportunity to prevent the Cataclysm from taking place, and instead returned to Dargaard Keep to confront his wife over his own insecurities.
Intro
Welcome to another DragonLance Saga episode. My name is Adam and today we are going to talk about Lord Soth. I would like to take a moment and thank my collaborator patrons, the Heroes of the Lance, and invite you to consider becoming a patron or member of this channel by visiting the links in the description below. You can even pick up Dragonlance gaming materials using my affiliate link. I am referencing the many novels and sourcebooks for this information. If I miss anything or misspeak, please leave a comment below.
Discussion
As a veteran I know what it means to be a good leader to your soldiers, and what it takes to get acknowledged by your leaders and rise in the ranks of a military. The very passion for defeating your enemies, the dedication to your order, and the responsibility you command over your subordinates are traits that are admired as a soldier and leader, but in your personal life, they are often the very things that break an otherwise healthy relationship with family, friends and loved ones if you are unable to turn them off. I learned early on to roleplay the soldier while I was training and on base, but when I came home, I stopped playing and returned to the man my wife married and loved. It meant that I had to choose whether to be a good soldier or a good husband. I watched otherwise good soldiers drown themselves in alcohol when home, abuse their spouses or treat their household as an extension of the base. The mentality of all military all the time is not always a bad thing, it doesn’t always end in tragedy, but I saw that it could, and at times did. This is the downfall of Lord Soth to me. Not the doomed soul, but a man who focused on his public persona over his private connections, and was drowned by the very passions that made him an amazing Knight, and a terrible husband.
When I was first married over two decades ago to my wife, I was young and if I am honest afraid. I was afraid that she would see me as the phony my insecurities tried to convince me that I was. I was afraid she would find someone better, who loved her more, who she was more connected to. My fears and insecurities nearly drove us to divorce in our first decade of marriage. Because of this, because I am a creature of my passions and faults, I can connect with Lord Loren Soth. I understand his fears, how he overcompensates and his desires. Everything in him is human and relatable, even as a Death Knight. This is of course, by design as when outlining the Dragonlance modules, Tracy Hickman recalls in The Art of the Dragonlance Saga and the Annotated Chronicles, that the story of Lord Soth just came to him, whole cloth one day. He needed a powerful foe to pit against the knights in the High Clerist’s Tower, and suddenly, there he was! They quickly realized that because he was such a powerful and romantic figure, he would steal the show. He is a tragic figure, a villain whom we can sympathise with. A villain whose background is mired in changes with each retelling over time.
The tale of Lord Soth would be told in the modules and novels, each time with both minor and major revisions. When the novel Lord Soth by Edo Van Belkom was released in 1996 it became the de facto true history. Lord Soth had his seneshal Caradok murder his two half siblings so that he would be uncontested in inheriting Knightlund. After he was elevated to a Knight of the Rose, he married a wealthy Palanthian merchant's daughter Korinne Gladria, which nearly tripled his landholdings. He did marry her out of love, but like his father, though it’s a cop out to blame on genetics, his eye wandered when he rescued a group of revered daughters of Paladine from a band of ogres... - บันเทิง
Thank you for watching this Dragonlance Setting video. What do you think of Lord Soth? Leave a comment below.
Typical perverted psyche in all it's corruption & violence as there is ever choice law or no law.
That intro about roleplaying when at your job and being yourself at home was powerful. And watching others stumble at it, painful.
Thank you! And thanks for watching.
Lord Soth is so cool, really one of D&D's most iconic villians. Like a fantasy version of Darth Vader.
Definitely. Thanks for watching!
@@DLSaga Fantasy Darth Vader - I totally agree! And, a vastly improved Witch-King of Angmar from a certain point of view.
His time in Ravenloft is equally awesome!
Your a veteran? Well thank you for your service!
Yes sir. Thank you for your support.
I have Lord Soths Charge as a framed picture. I have had it and displayed it for the last 30 years.
That’s awesome, it’s such a great painting!
😍 hearing about Soth from your perspective as a veteran and a husband, I see him now in a new light. It's a food for thought - thanks. I've never tought of him as being OP; that might be the result of a D&D campaign, where a couple of kenders (played by 2 brothers) did come across him. And since they roleplayed those kenders perfectly, sir Knight of the Black Rose was rather flabbergasted, bewildered, and vexed by them. Of course, dices were on their side so they refused to die and in the end came on top, leaving Soth shocked & with fewer possessions.
hahah, poor Lord Soth.
I think the story of Lord Soth is a great example of what makes the Dragonlance setting and the stories so compelling and enduring to those who know them. They’re this strange alchemy of epic, mythic tales but populated by very real, very human characters with very human flaws and quirks and personalities (like Flint’s habit of whittling or his insistence on wearing his horse-hair helm even though he’s allergic to horses).
Case in point: Lord Soth’s story feels like an Arthurian tragedy, but his habit of projecting his own shame and guilt onto others feels very much like a modern author’s observations about humanity.
Very well said!
Lord Soth was a great character. The only aspect of him that I was disappointed was when Takhisis killed him. I felt that was weak. It felt as if Weiss and Hickman were feuding with Wizards of the Coast and killed him off so he could not be used in other ways such as Ravenloft
Agreed. Love the character, not a good ending however. For me at least.
Yes!
War of the Souls took place after the Ravenloft books though
Idk I totally see your point, but imagine him and all he's been through. He seemed tired of it all, and told a god to kick rocks. That's a pretty badass way to go, he just wanted to be with his wife and child at the end of it all.
@@KazaganthiDrakkor That is an interesting perspective but I don’t think Soth ever appreciated his wife or child. When Kitiara Allie’s with him Soth is still consumed by thoughts of conquest and thinks of her as a kindred spirit. 40 years later he has a change of heart simply because Takhisis is absent? It just seems like too much of a stretch to me
I still remembers reading about Soth and looking forward to the book when he would meet his end... I was surprised when Takhisis restored Lord Soth's mortality in a last hope to turn him to her side again and even then he refused her...
He did have near four-hundred years to think about his mistakes...
For me when Soth’s death at the hands of Takisis was one of the most powerful moments in dragonlance
I've worked with many ex service men and women over the year's suffering with ptsd and just with settling back into "normal life" and your insights hit home for what they shared with me about their difficulties and brought a new level of jnsight into a character i have always enjoyed. Thank you brother, for your videos on a world i love and also in the one we all share
I really appreciate hearing that.
Thank you! Your telling and personal insight was just inspiring. Thank you so much for sharing.
It was my pleasure.
thank you for sharing your own personal experiences and insight,much appreciated. Great vid!
Thank you for watching!
0:40 for a second, I thought you were inviting us to consider becoming a Death Knight...
haha, with three easy payments of $666 you too can become a death knight!
@@DLSaga Knight of the Black Patreon.
Wow! I was very surprised to hear you share such a personal story. That was pretty amazing and hopefully it can help others. I only recently found this channel and I like it quite a bit because it's reminding me of my love for this amazing setting. Thank you for that!
I appreciate that. Thank you for watching!
Love or hate his time in Ravenloft, those novels did a great job of showing just how scary of a man Soth was!
Absolutely!
Ravenloft is just an amazing setting.
Thanks for your service, Adam.
Thank you for your support!
he was never taken a side in the gods' war, he was always his own man
He was such an imposing figure...
I kind of wish you would have gone in a little more on his time in Ravenloft. I think there were some defining moments in those stories for Lord Soth, and he was a badass in Ravenloft.
I did review the novels and short story in Ravenloft on the channel!
The end only came to him when he really accepted and pay for what he had become, he was the only one with the key to release himself , but he was a strict jailer since the honorable part that was left of the knight of the rose he once was in him demanded that he suffer enough to pay for his sins.
That’s the romantic version which I prefer. Did he know Takhisis was going to destroy him?
What an amazing and deep intro.
Thank you!
Thank you Adam.
My pleasure!
Read this book back in 92. My fav👌
I’m interviewing the author this Sunday.
I’m reading his book in the Ravenloft series at the moment, I’ve never read any of the Dragonlance books. This helped me understand his backstory more, thanks!
You’re very welcome
Very good.. Love these. Knight of the Black Rose (title of the book detailing his adventure in Raveloft) show exactly how powerful he is. That book showed he was even more powerful than Lord Strahd.
Great book!
@@DLSaga Working on recreating my old book collection in Audiobook format. Once I finish Huma and Kaz books, that book is next (already read I, Stahd at least a half dozen times).
He was kind of OP in the books.
He was so OP that they had to under ultilize him in the War of the Lance.
It was good to see him flex some muscles in the Legends Book.
Absolutely! I liked him in Lost Chronicles also.
I loved Soth and his growing love for Kitiara and her final doom at his hand is kinda poetic, but I still felt a pang of sorrow for her :-(
Especially if he would’ve been able to claim her soul.
Excellent writing.
Love it
Thank you for watching.
One thing that is facinating about Lord Soth is his independence.
He wasnt the Dragon Queen's little bitch.
Ideally the Dragon Queen would have sent him on a Evil Paladin quest to go find Berem Everman.
Soth was like, Nope. I'll just stay here and hang out with the Banshees. So he was not a minion, like a Dragon or something. As mentioned in the video, he had demands that needed to be met before he joined the War effort.
Also, due to competition with other Dragon Highlords it was not in the Dark Lady's best interest to have Lord Soth go to the front lines and slay bodies during the War of the Lance. Instead he was her body guard.
A really great NPC. I kind of like the Darth Vader wavelength. The Players might be able to help him get Redemption if they try hard enough. This will allow the Dragon Armies to be weaker later.
I'm find with the stat block in the Shadow of theh Dragon Queen book good to go and a great baseline . I think it's a CR of 19. The Power Word Kill would be instant death and not 100hp. The saving throw would be higher too. Like 23 or something. I would also have him vanish and fly and stuff.
I like the direction you are talking about. I ran players through When Black Roses Bloom and he was very much like Darth Vader from the end of Rogue One. Just a real bad ass. I love the character.
Love this channel the only critique would be the pronunciation of the names, chiefly two: Astinus (Ass-tin-us), and Dargaard (Dâr-guard) is how my research has revealed they should be pronounced. The way you pronounce it hits my ear wrong. But, I will say I love all your videos save for one. 😎
Thank you for watching, my pronunciation notwithstanding ;)
I loved Soth's relationship with Kitiara
He had her back, then began coveting it lol.
@@DLSaga lol
He only truly respects the Master of Past, Present & Future.
Even over Takhisis too!
Favorite villain 🦹♂️ episode
Nice, thanks for watching!
To extend your Veteran portion. I am not one. But. I have, in my 20+ years in private sector jobs, come across a few who cant adjust to civilian life afterwards. Whether it is realizing that on the job after that their "former rank" does not mean anything in the Private Sector or "how things were done in the military" is not how they are done in the Private Sector. I have seen this in some workers who grew up in the households you referenced too. The career military who "extended" their military into the home. And now their offspring think that "growing up military" is a thing. It is sad because I have seen otherwise good people lose jobs because they cant let go of that military mentality in the PS.
Absolutely! Thanks for sharing your experience!
You can tell that the character of Arthas in War Craft has some inspiration from Lord Soth. One of the most interesting stories in Dragonlance. By the way the Raveloft novels Knight of the Black Rose and Spectre of the Black Rose are also two good reads as well.
I have reviews of both of them on this channel!
I read Dragonlance as a teenager, became a fan of critical role later in life and picked up dnd. Now smashed both universes together. Draconians and Lord Soth in Wildermount?! My 5 players will get to meet Lord Soth. Look forward to seeing how they will deal with him, and how much they will discover about him. Thx for taking a deeper look into the classics!
My pleasure. Thanks for watching!
I've been doing some similar. would like to hear a bit more if you can share
Your insights into military life is a fascinating take on Lord Soth, an aspect of his character I hadn't thought of before. Very interesting, thanks for sharing! I'm also curious about the Darth Vader connection: How much of Lord Soth's character was cemented in our imagination thanks to the artwork of Keith Parkinson? I mean, Star Wars characters have an instantly recognisable silhouette which, iirc, was by design. Each character has an iconic look and instantly recognisable silhouette, an idea i think we can see in certain Dragonlance characters, particularly Raistlin and Lord Soth. These two also share deeply flawed personalities yet are totally relatable despite or because of them.
I'm slightly disappointed by the removal of Soth from Ravenloft. I enjoyed that crossover and was dismayed to learn the Death Knight's inclusion into the Demiplane of Dread was a hotly contested matter. I try to accept and move on, but Soth's fate represents or reflects a schism that I wish I never knew about. Part of me suspects the passions of the saga's very creative minds have hurt the series, holding it back to this day. Or maybe I'm reading into it too deeply, just surprised a setting like Dragonlance, a veritable heavy weight as far as campaign settings go, remains a thing of the past when it still has so much to offer.
and with wotc's plans for it ie telling us that everything pre 2014 is non canon now even the novels its only going to get worse.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
I am concerned....
I'm not sure if the books known as "The Knight of the Black Rose" and "When Black Roses Bloom" and "Spectre of the Black Rose" are relevant to Lord Soth in the Dragonlance setting. I remember Margaret Weis said that the Lord Soth in the Ravenloft setting was not the actual Dragonlance Lord Soth. I wonder if the three books are canon or non-canon. I suppose it would make as much sense as comparing Takhisis to Tiamat or Paladine to Bahamut.
DL is shifting cannon. Soth was taken from Krynn and put into Ravenloft, then back again. It upset Weis and Hickman, but they got the character back.
Have you read the book "Renegade Wizards" by Lucien Soulban? I'd say it's the best of the newer DL books. It's a mid-quel set before the War of the Lance (Par Salian is a relatively young man but has already passed his test, if that helps nail down the time frame).
I have not. I will look into it, thanks!
10:00 - your suggested discussion topic, "was Lord Soth overpowered in the novels?"
Not at all! He was perfect. He certainly was much more powerful that most anything else around, but I think that worked out wonderfully in the story telling.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts
Why would one not accept his travels to Ravenloft? I loved that book and the place he took in that misty evil world; his seneschal, the were- badger dwarf Azrael (I think). It was great!
I agree, but I can also understand how the creator of Soth (Hickman), would be upset that they took him out of his campaign world.
Soth was Awesome
Absolutely!
I think soth is probably more a Darth Vader, his Palpatine more in his head than anything else. From my understanding from what I've personally read, including ravenloft, he was anything but penitent or proud of his failures.
His DL appearances were much more personal and introspective than his Ravenloft ones. I think that’s why Hickman was so upset.
My favorite bad guy
He’s a bad ass.
I loved his Ravenloft arc
Me too!
I Always thought he was awesome ,In flesh he reminded me of Lemmy or James Headfeild .
haha, Lord Soth in Lemmy's jean shorts...
Skipped over the ravenloft...that's why I was here ...30% of personal info and a little of Soth
Thanks for watching.
i tried@@DLSaga
Was he the only notable Death Knight?
No in the Fifth Age there was one called Ausric Krell, but he sucked as a bad guy, lol.
Favorite villain 🦹♂️ episode episode villain 🦹♂️
Yes, he’s great!
first, let me admit that i rarely read other comments, so, if this was already discussed, just let me know…
that being said, i did enjoy this video, thought provoking as i had to fight emotions of your personal story…we had a friend of the family that went to vietnam and came back a shell of his former self…divorced his wife, signed off on his kids, and proceeded to drink himself into a pine box…my sympathies…
i am curious as to the darth vader/ hell priest (i loathe him being called “Pinhead”…) comparison that you made; i understand the darth vader part, as the characters are extremely similar…but what of the hell priest?
vader and soth are two perfect examples of lawful evil, while the hell priest, from the novel and the first two movies; the others are rubbish(!), i feel is at its base true neutral?
so, please to explain your comparison?
If memory serves I referenced them in terms of imposing, scary figures, rather than pinhead mimicking any story of Soths.
uh.... The ending of Lord Soth given in this narration isn't the one they had for him in the 1990's. Shortly after Lord Soth sat there watching Kitiara get attacked by the undead and do nothing to help he was whisked off to Raven's Loft. I believe I still have that book as a matter of fact. Lord Soth was so evil he wound up with his own realm in Raven's Loft that matched his holdings in Kryn. That's what happened to Lord Soth in the 1990's.
You are misremembering how he was taken to Ravenloft. There was a second book as well. Then he was returned to Krynn and died there. It’s the War of Souls trilogy.
Lord Soth
18/100 strength
18 Dexterity
18 constitution
18 intelligence
18 wisdom
18 charisma
- 100 out of 100 karma
lol, practically perfect in every way.
@@DLSaga exactly 😮💨
There's also a Forgotten Realms book about Soth
Wait, what?! What’s it called?
@@DLSaga It's called "Knight of the Black Rose" I think
@@DLSaga My bad, it was a Ravenloft novel. False alarm, my memory is failing me...
He was cursed to live all the lives he caused in the cataclysm he let happen
His end was interesting.
@@DLSaga I liked it as well but he kinda got off light if u wanted to base it off the lives lost during the age of despair or cataclysm event
Is this the guy kit has on a leash... Lol
Yes.
I am lord Soth
There are worse people to believe you are I suppose.
10:06 - your suggested discussion topic, "should Lord Soth have bowed to Raistlin?"
Yes. Here is why.
Spring Dawning puts Lord Soth's power in context. The power of the Highlords is established and the top Highlord backs down from him and the reader has got an overall feel for Kynn by then which highlights that Soth is by far the most powerful character to directly appear in Kyrnn that point.
This sets up Lord Soth saying "but I bow in the presence of a master" to Raistlin at the Tower of High Sorcery in Time of the Twins. The authors had us on the edge of our chairs so to speak to see which of the two would have the upper hand. There is an interesting bit subtlety to this. Soth says this after describing his magical abilities. His statement could easily be read as Soth acknowledging that Raistlin is a master of magic, but not necessarily stating he thought that Raistlin could defeat him if it came to blows.
Then all reasonably doubt is cleared up in Test of the Twins when Lord Soth muses:
“I could kill Dalamar-the dark elf apprentice is good, but he is no match for me. His master? Raistlin? Ah, now that would be a different story."
In conclusion, I think the "bowing" is an important part of the authors making clear the pecking order. I think they did an excellent job vs. Tolkein who setup endless "Gandalf vs. Witch-King" debates (though I love his work too).
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this! You make a great argument.
So how long have you been single now??? 23/10/2023....
Thanks for watching
Lol what
@@TouchNGo99 notice he didn't answer the question???
jc the personal story is not needed.
Thank you for watching.