Sometimes it's nice to just enjoy a traditional happy ending fantasy story. I've read it maybe 7 times over the last 35 years and it's just comforting. Plus Silk is just the best
Will happily dagger a man in the dark, but would rather die than get pulled through solid rock again. He was always my favourite. I love that scene where he and his half brother start negotiating.
@JohnnyMalkav now, that is a series that is very black and white, literally in some ways. it's core is the philosophy of Ayn Rand's objectivism, there are those that take and those that create (or give of themself). Magic is additive, or it is subtractive, positive or negative, good and evil (they literally bargain with the devil for subtractive. But Zedd is a complex character, where War Wizard Richard Rahl, keeps it simple, he carries the sword of truth, which amplifies his anger, making him a kind of righteous crusader for most of the first book. He knows how to ask questions and the truth is the highest moral duty of all good people. Sometimes the extended metaphor is kinda ham, but it was my first ever full fantasy series where I was waiting years on books, and it will always have a special place in my heart
I have reread the Belgariad and Mallorean every 10-15 years or so. I enjoyed them each and every time. They are a fun read with fun characters. That is all that matters.
I'm not sure it's intentional, but Garion's passivity early on makes sense: he IS a pawn, quite literally in a prophecy. And only when he crosses the entire board (I mean map) does he get promoted to king. Even there, the king is a critical piece on the board but not the most powerful. Garion and the large plans of the prophecy, depend on everyone doing their part.
You sure it's not because Polgara would not allow him to make decisions? Most of these kind of tales happen when your little hero is NOT having any parental figure around stopping them. Garion is an orphan but Polgara totally fulfills the role of adventure-stopping parent. He was crowned a king and still hesitated a bit. Eventually he decided to sneak out like the teen he was at 16. That little hide-from-a-subject -scene was funny and telling. He stopped playing hide-and-seek of the first series and went on to play the-godslayer-commands in the second.
Brah, you are me! Well your tag is. Garion is a kid, who is a pawn, easily trusting the motherlike Pol and grandpalike Belgarath, who wants to push Garion a little further each time once the prophetic sigils are revealed. The push-pull is narrative tension, while we are with Garion--trying to figure it all out. So, long story short, I agree Garion has not sufficiently powered up to be more than a pawn at this point. That's why the white queen and king (well no other analogue) are protecting him from the black king.
Honestly, the Bellgariad was not written for modern audiences. It was written at a time when black and white morality was the predominant type of story being told. The Belgariad, the Shanara series, Wheel of Time, LOTR, and many others are written with very clear heroes and villains. It was also written at a time where every little foible and crime of an author were not on full parade. Readers at the time judged the stories based on the quality of the story and not the author themselves. We could separate the art from the artist. Modern audiences and younger generations are far too cynical and judgemental to enjoy stories with real heroes and evil villains. Everyone wants to root for the villain more than the heroes and classic fantasy is not where you can do that.
At least in the Malloreon, Belgarath admits it's not good vs. evil, it's us vs. them. Although Zandramas being evil is quite clear, starting with her name being the ultimate curse word in Ulgo language. It's not that the Light party is all that good either...
@@Scudboy17 I honestly wish we could go back to the days when we knew nothing of the authors save their writing. Because some of the behind the scenes stuff that seemingly plagued the SF and Fantasy writing communities for at least 50 years makes it very hard to enjoy a lot of the stories now. Many of them were not simply bad people, but depraved monsters, and much of the rest knew and said/did nothing.
It is this generation's ability to root for the Evil "bad guy" that allowed the worst human being in the world to become President, not once, but twice! You need to learn ACTUAL critical thinking!
I whole-heartedly disagree. Belgarion is torn for several books after he smote a man. Silk is a murderer and a scoundrel. He exterminates a whole family for killing a fellow drasnian agent. Belgarath abandoned his daughter and went wh*ring for several years after the 'death' of his wife. Barak is a berserker, who's largest joy in life is to wage war. The Nyissan, Sadi is a poisoner, political asssassin and fixer for a vapid snake queen. Relg the diviner is a misogynistic religious fundamentalist who literally has to have a god intervene to make him stop. The only 2 moral characters in the party are Durnik and Pol, and they're still not totally 'Good'. Pol refuses to let Garion grow up, until the prophecy intervenes, and Durnik is prudish, traditionalist, and quite closed minded. Then the villain, Zedar, was literally mentally dominated by the overwhelming mind of the maimed God. He is very kind to Eriond, and Eriond remembers his time with Zedar fondly. I don't think he deserved what Belgarath did to him. They were simple stories, sure, but to say they were black and white, hero's and villains, is just wrong. Just plain wrong.
the Elric Saga, Dellaney's Dhalgreen, Fritz Lieber's works, hell, even Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series were also 80's books and they all well understood Moral ambiguity. It was like the Shanara series just a hack-work LOTR rip-off
“Finished? You and I? How can you even begin to understand what I"ve had to do to bring you to this world? You"ve been my only care for over a thousand years. I"ve endured anguish and loss and pain beyond your ability to understand what the words mean - all for you. I"ve lived in poverty and squalor for hundreds of years at a time - all for you. I gave up a sister I loved more than my life itself - all for you. I"ve gone through fire and despair worse than fire a dozen times over - all for you. And you think this has all been an entertainment for me? - some idle amusement? You think the kind of care I"ve devoted to you for a thousand years and more comes cheaply? You and I will never be finished, Belgarion. Never! We will go on together until the end of days if necessary. We will never be finished. You owe me too much for that!” Still gets me every time
It's a great scene, but I do think Garion caved too quickly. He did have a bit of a point. After all, Polgara wasn't dedicated to *him* for a thousand years... she was dedicated to his role in the Prophecy. Just like she callously informed Ce'nedra that she'd drag her to Riva in chains, to fulfill the Prophecy. There are times I want to adjust Polgara's attitude with a stick. Contrast her treatment of Durnik after his first battle with her treatment of Garion after waxing Chamdar, right?
Eddings of course later came out and said that he AND his wife wrote the books. Once I found out that it seemed to be that certain characters were written exclusively by one of them. The way some of the characters banter back and forth feel like two people actually talking that it makes me think that it was.
@@hoi-polloi1863 At over a thousand years old, Polgara is a master manipulator. What she said was true, as is what you said. Her statement was crafted for maximum guilt. She designed it to do exactly what it did, stop him in his tracks, make him feel terrible even if he did have a point. She is there to raise and protect him. She has an obligation to him, to her father, to her god and the centuries of people who came before to see the prophecy to it's completion. If she has to guilt him to make him a little more pliable, so be it.
Personally, I don't care for today's grimdark fantasy and I like more "traditional" fantasy, so these books might my cup of tea. The Eddings criminal past is very disturbing. But they did plead guilty and went to prison for their actions, so they were rightly punished for their crimes. On top of that, the couple has passed away a while back, so any purchase of their books or audiobooks aren't benefiting them.
Once upon a time, there was this idea, called justice. This idea suggested that a person could be punished for their crime, and then, having paid their dues, owed nothing more to society. Eddings never struck me as a particularly nice person (based on some of his comments), and it certainly does seem he lied a fair bit about his past. But unless you're thinking about leaving a toddler in his care, why should his past be a concern? He paid his debt.
Grimdark doesn't give me what I want out of fantasy at all, but Eddings' writing is so saccharine that I couldn't get beyond the Belgariad - which I began reading before all of it was published, when I was young and innocent. If you like your tea with 5 sugars, maybe....
Yeah... it may sound contraddictory coming from someone who accounts Berserk amoung his favourite fantasy series (I know it's a manga and not a novel, but still), but I do not findi today's grimdark fantasy appealing either. If I want to read about a world where life is a miserable struggle, good morals lead to failure, and evil triumphs because it's simply more powerful, I would simply read the news. It does not mean that fantasy must be reduced to an overly simplistic world of black/white morality, but neither one when there's only shades of black or dark grey at most.
@@virtualatheist Although when I was 15 reading about Sparhawks interactions with his Daughter/Goddess incarnate I cocked my eyebrow abit even at a younger age. Aahh well still enjoyed his works overall.
From the description, I can tell there's not much "story" in there to enjoy. The downsides described prevent most ways in which stories function - the story requires a potential for change, more than one possible outcome.
Didn’t read the Belegraid but I did read the Elenium/Tamuli. I did enjoy it but I definitely felt that (spoilers) Sparhawk was too old to marry Ehlana. Other than that I wonder what else will hold up.
100% Changed how I viewed/played Paladins. That said, it's Eddings, so it's still basically the same story as the Belgariad with the serial numbers filled off and the Tamuli was exactly the same story with a geography shift per formula lol
@@weaselwolf To be fair, the Elenium is the most off-formula of Eddings' six versions of the same story (Belgariad, Malloreon, Elenium, Tamuli, Althalus and Dreamers).
Expecting a book written in 1982 to have the same values as people 42 years later is absurd. As far as race = good/evil, this was directly addressed and disproven in the sequel, the Mallorean, which is all about our original heroes and heroines discovering the Angaraks are actually decent people. Urgit, Vella, Yarblek, Cyradis, Toth, Senji: all good people. Even in the Belgariad, Belgarath makes this clear when he says there are good people in Cthol Murgos, but that Garion should be careful around any Murgos he sees in Sendaria, as those ones were sent by their government as spies.
I always saw it as the gods' influence "flavoring" their respective people. Yah, Drasnians are *going* to be annoying sneak-thieving gits to some extent or another, but we do get plenty of variation. Contrast Rhodar, Javelin, and Kheldar, right?
@@Hrafnskald Racism and sexism were most definitely outdated concepts by 1982. (Notably, Alice Walker’s ‘The Colour Purple’ was published in 1982.) Frankly, they were outdated concepts by 1948. (Many lessons were learned during World War II.) But, of course, some people are slower to remove centuries-old bigotry scars from the cobwebbed pillars in their brains.
Your point about the monoculture issue does seem to ignore one overt detail: the people in this world were all just people, but then selected by a god and actually went off and lived beside their gods until a relatively recent point in history. We're talking like a few thousand years since their gods stopped living down the road. Is it any wonder that these cultures are extremely close to the ideas these gods modeled? They're basically all priests to a certain extent.
Yeah it was my sticking point with some of the reworking in D&D. Like their religions can actually deliver miracles on command...and the sword when needed. So there will be a strong tendency towards dogmatic cultures, because most people can't be bothered to resist intensive effort to shape their societies and your rebellious counter cultural types...either need healing at some point or get the mace to the face. But even then, monolithically "good" or "evil" societies or species hadn't been a thing since like the early 80's so IDK what the changes were intended to address. That said, there are some definite issues with the overall geographic "layout" of Edding's major works.
@@rubaiyat300 I'm actually surprised that there are atheists in the DnD setting. When you know that the head clerics in the big cathedral two towns over can cure diseases and bring sufficiently wealthy people back to life, it's kind of hard to deny that whatever they pray to is a god. Then again I guess most of the atheists of that setting are arguing that the gods should not be worshipped because of something that happened in their life that they consider to be some kind of slight by the deities in question. Then again, the Wall of the Faithless is common knowledge, so I would probably just pick some other god to worship, rather than risk ending up in there for all of eternity...
Would it shock you to realize it has been only 2000 years since the formation of the Roman empire? How many nations today bear any resemblance? Or how about the dozens of European nations that existed after and bear no semblance to the the modern people who live in the same land? this is a very weak attempt to explain away the simplistic writing. just accept it for what it is. It doesn't make the books bad. They were written with a younger audience in mind.
in the Malloreon we see more diversity in the races. We find good people among the Angaraks. We see more depth to the companions. They arent quite so one dimensional. They had to do this in the second series. Given the ending and what it was all leading towards, even after the end of the series, they needed to show that all the races could be one eventually.
It’s difficult to take this video seriously when the narrator constantly mispronounces one of the most important character’s name. It’s Polgara, not Polgaria.
I think one of the points of the Mallorean is that after the poisonous control of the evil god and his minions is broken then the "evil" lands are beginning to recover and good people are able to do good things.
Yeah, I distinctly remember the heroes meeting at least *some* decent people on their journey into the "evil lands"...Granted, it's been a while, so maybe it'd all read differently to me now, as the opening of this vid claims, but I don't recall it being as bad as all that...
@@BrianS1981 I liked the Mallorean because it struck me as prospective. Throughout the Belgariad the Malloreans were 'evil' because that's how the west viewed them. In the Mallorian we learned that they were just people.
@@BrianS1981exactly one secret Westerner and IIRC 3 good people from the first series. And the last 3 books of the Mallorean are entirely within the territory of the evil races. Lots of good and decent people to be found.
I've seen a lot of hot takes from people about these books in recent years. All viewed through the twisted lens of modern liberal thinking. A good example is the narrator of this video referring to people in the East as Asians. There are no Asians, it's a fantasy world. It's the same bad logic that leads people to say that Orcs in D&D represent Black people. In these and all other successful fantasy novels, it's human nature that is purely expressed while all other things may be completely manufactured.
I don't suppose you can recommend something of the _opposite_ of that? I'm weary of how serious and grim fantasy has gotten in modern times - I want high adventure with idealistic heroes and humor and stuff, and I've been considering rereading the Belgarion books just because I can't find anything new along those lines.
Garion didn't win by stabbing Torak, he won by refusing to submit to Torak's attempt to dominate and enslave him, as the dark god had dominated and enslaved his people: "Hear me, maimed and despised God," he grated from between clenched teeth. "You are nothing. Your people fear you, but they do not love you. You tried to deceive me into loving you; you tried to force Aunt Pol to love you; but I refuse you-even as she did. You're a God, but you are nothing. In all the universe there is not one person-not one thing-that loves you. You are alone and empty, and even if you kill me, I'll still win. Unloved and despised, you'll howl out your miserable life to the end of days." Garion's words struck the God like blows... ...This was why Garion had come to this decaying ruin-not to fight Torak, but to reject him."
Exits Examined, at the end of the first series, it isn't Garion killing burnt face that fulfills the prophecy; it is Polgara's rejection of Torak. The fight happens to take Torak off the game board.
It even says that the "fight" was almost anticlimactic. By rejecting Torak, his need to be accepted/worshipped was unfulfilled and so he failed; had Polgara gone to him, he would have been unassailable and the PotD would have "won". And yes, Torak appealed to Belgarion to love him too, but from my perspective that was always because he had been supporting Polgara's will to resist by projecting memories of Durnik to her. It was truly Polgara's choice that decided everything but yes, Durnik and Belgarion played absolutely key supporting roles in that conflict.
@@HuckFlynn I'm reminded of the Prophecy's advice to Garion about how to keep Torak out of his head. Along the lines of, "Keep thinking about Ce'nedra. It'll probably annoy him as much as it annoys me!"
I was NOT expecting this video! I started reading the Belgariad in the '80s, followed by the Mallorean, and finally the two "prequel books", Belgarath the Sorcerer, and Polgara the Sorceress. I recall waiting eagerly for the next novel in the series, and was never disappointed by the content. My two favorite characters were Belgarath, and Silk, the Drasnian Prince/Spy/Assassin. I still have all the books. Maybe it's time for another read-through... 🤗🤗🤗
It is reiterated over and over throughout the entire series that the “Evilness” is imposed from the top down and the truly evil leaders are offed or changed and replaced by better ones. His pronunciation of the names in this are killing me. There is NO I in Polgara! Also that racist grandfather states that he feels pity for most of the Angaraks because they don’t have a choice in what they’re forced into! I actually DID have a racist grandfather, 2 in fact and yeah Belgarath doesn’t even come close.
@@SilortheBladeso you're saying that, even though Eddings is racist, he found it in his heart to write from the perspective of a non-racist grandfather, who is a major character in his book? Okay
I remember this series and enjoyed them. My favorite was Katherine Kurtz’ Deryni stories. But the Belgariad was definitely among my go to books to read back then.
The Riftwar series by Raymond E. Feist is my favorite. I found Magician: Apprentice sitting on a shelf in my closet and asked my parents if I could read it. It was my first foray into fantasy books and I've been hooked every since.
This series is great. I read the first book (recommended by a friend) many moons ago whilst I was in high school. Fast forward three decades, and I finally tracked down the series in its entirety and read it. I'm so glad that I did, as this was a refreshing tale of good and evil written in a manner that can be easily followed and greatly enjoyed.
I fondly remember these books. The criminal convictions were news to me, but people aren't perfect, and bad people can make good art. I will say that the constant reference to "the allegations" in the back half of the script is distracting. The crimes aren't alleged: he was convicted. There's no dispute about that, his estate can't sue you for defamation.
Reminds me of how I dealt with Mists of Avalon. The author turned out to be a vile abuser, but I loved their art. Finally, I decided it was like blaming a child for the actions of the parent. If it's not actively glorifying the actions they were convicted of, and are no longer benefitting from royalty sales, it feels a bit more tolerable. It doesn't change the feelings I had while reading the book originally. I'd rather never know anything about creators of art these days. It's safer!
I agree, except when the awfulness of the author creeps into their work. Especially when it’s not an author *known* to be awful, but their work has continual references to pretty heinous stuff. I’m not trying to libel or slander anybody, but once you’ve read Piers Anthony’s Firefly the rest of his stuff (especially the Incarnations of Immortality) starts to feel extremely icky
I've read somewhere (maybe on a blog post, can't say for sure) that the Eddings' wrote The Belgariad as a form of apology for their actions to those poor children. What they did was horrendous, the details of what they did to those poor children were harrowing, but they were convicted of their crimes, they were punished and served time for what they did, D Eddings lost his university teaching position and they both suffered a downgrade in social standing at the time, and most importantly, they understood that what they did was wrong and did not reoffend (to my knowledge) so in my opinion, this should not be an issue in enjoying the books. Unfortunately we live in a society that will get worked up over actions that have already been dealt with at the time and will continue to hold those actions against the individual and their creations long after the issue. I wish people now would learn to move past issues and crimes that have already been dealt with and resolved. I'm not saying that what they did should be forgotten or even forgiven but people should acknowledge the fact that they had already paid the price for their actions and move on. It would be different if it was a current and ongoing issue like JK Rowling's continuing comments and attacks on the trans community and their supporters, and the allegations of sexual assault being levelled against Neil Gaiman but it isn't. It's in the past, they were caught and punished, they have tried to make amends and they are now dead.
They didn't make amends to the extent of financial compensation, though, which they might have done. At least, not according to the person on another forum who said he had been the boy in the case.
This was my first introduction to fantasy. I read it when I was about 14 for the first time. I re-read it every few years, as well as The Elenium. It’s comfort reading, takes me back to my childhood
The "race/gender" criticism falls flat for me. The most important character start to finish is a woman (Pol) and some of the other female characters are thin because they're simply minor characters. The author specifically elevates female characters at a time when that was not at all the standard. And you have to lean way too hard into modern obsession with race to have an issue with these books - it's not earth, these aren't "races", these are groups of people specifically created by different gods to be different from each other. They aren't sterotypes, they're actually types, and intended to be that way.
You know you can just enjoy something without having to make excuses for the problems. Pol was powerful, but was also the mother figure. Books are not written in a vacuum. They are written by people who live on this planet. I enjoyed these books, but even as a child I recognized some of the issues. It was a simplistic view, influenced by the authors upbringing/world view, and limited by his writing ability (hence his wife needing to help, can you imagine the writing if she hadn't). When you make these very poor excuses you come across as either being afraid for being judged for liking something old before tastes changed, or for preferring those old views today and trying to justify them. Neither is a good look.
I always wondered why no one ever talks about the Belgariad. Haven't read it in years. Never knew about Eddings history. I like using names from the saga for characters in games and such because they're burned into my brain lol.
People can criticse it for being formulaic, but its a fantastic read and a very good series for new fantasy readers to get into. It has a lot of memorable scenes in it which I remember today.
The Rivan Codex ruined Eddings for me. He explained his formula for writing fantasy stories. After that in all his books I could see his pattern and he ALWAYS followed the same pattern. And he called Tolkien a hack writer……
His worldbuilding is terrible too imo. A cardboard world with no depth at all. Just like his characters. He's terry Goodkind without the Objectivism, the BDSM and S.A. Sparhawk was an interesting character but in those books I feel like he was trying too hard.
I never read the Rivan Codex, but did read all of his major fantasy series, and the cookie cutter template is super obvious. It still works for a lot of them, but not for the Dreamers series (or is it called The Younger Gods), that series was wasted potential and the ending of the last book literally made everything that happened before it in the previous three and half books completely irrelevant.
There are some problems with your thesis. (Not to mention presentation. It’s not “Polgaria” it’s Polgara. If you missed that nuance, just imagine what else you missed?). Heck the “evil” people of the East are the main subject of the next 5 books. Where amazingly we see them treated with a great deal of nuance.
The dialogue in these is still sone of the best in the genre. Snappy, witty, and clear voices for everyone. I'd quibble about the point of the characters being one dimensional but i get why you say that. I'd still recommend them to read or listen to (I include The Mallorean too) for fantasy fans.
To me the Belgariad is literally the most generic of Fantasy (and I mean that in a good way)! ilIt uses all the stereotypes of fantasy and does them very well. It tries to be timeless, which is nearly pulls off, which is why the issue with it really seem so glaring.
Belgariad; Mallorean; Polgara, the Sorceress; Belgarath, the Sorcerer; The Rivan Codex; The Elenium; The Tamuli; The Dreamers; the Redemption of Althalus. Damn fine books and stories, written by terribly flawed people. By the way, all are within my hands' reach here in my office... and about every 7 to 10 years I reread each, in order. And a small thought about the people are either all good or all bad; the Drasnians are very very gray, aren't they? Sure they work for 'good', but damn some of their ways are.... questionable. Damn fine stories written by terribly flawed people. Both David and Leigh.... would love to see all done by HBO in a 'Game of Thrones' type series.
Gotta be honest, all the criticisms you listed of the book are barely even criticisms. Ive got no problem with sexism, racism, or genocide in books based in a setting where all of those things were commonplace. All criticism of women being not current day femenists is also a weak critique
Judge not the past through the lens of the present. Context is everything. Any work can be criticized when current standards are applied. It is an epic tale and is well told. Unfortunately, it is always easier to find fault.
I read the Belgariad soon after it came out, and then the Mallorean as they were being released. They've been a frequent reread for me over the years, a definite comfort read. As far as the abuse convictions, I was unaware of them until a few years ago, and I'm not going to just trash some of my favorite childhood books as a result of them. I hope that the conviction and jail time taught the Eddings their errors, and as far as I know they never had custody of other children. I like to think that the warm and fuzzy family perspective of the Belgariad is a result of the Eddings rethinking their choices, but we'll never know. I respect those that choose not to read their work as a result, but I continue to enjoy it.
You... literally said everything I could've said about the matter. We even read the books at exactly the same time, and learnt about the authors' past at probably around the same time, too. You must be my long lost - and probably evil - twin 😂
Yessss!!!!!!! I have been scouring TH-cam for a retrospective on the Belgariad since I joined the platform. Exits Explained, you beautiful bastard, you've done it again.
Honestly thanks so much, this series was a bit intimating to tackle because I knew I'd get a lot of backlash because I'd have to talk about all the controversy surrounding the series, anyway it's these type of comments that keep me going, nice to find other people into the same nooks and crannies of fantasy!
@exitsexamined I honestly didn't have any idea about the child abuse thing, which is horrifying. I bought the entire set of the Belgariad and Mallorean some months back in a fit of nostalgia. And they were still a great read, but every so often you pause and go, "damn. That's a pretty messed up/archaic world view."
I was wondering for awhile while no one really talked about it on Booktube, I guess now I know why...Doesn't scare me off, tho, maybe I'll finally reread them after perusing some of that fanart!
@@exitsexamined I don't know if you know ever read the Bartimaeus cycle by Johnathan Stroud. If Good Omens is Gaiman and Sir Terry's legitimate offspring, this is the secret love child of Philip Pullman and Sir Terry: dark socio-political commentary melded with hilarious hijinks by one of the most endearing POV voices I've found in modern fantasy.
Funny, i just started re-reading these books recently. Currently on the Mallorean. You 100% nail the issues with these books, although I still enjoy reading them. I remember as a kid reading the books and upon finishing the Mallorean I thought "Hold on, the author just wrote the same set of books twice!"
That is pretty much any sequel series though that is using the same characters and setting. Most of the time they rehash the same plot over again with a few upgrades or changes. The fundamentals of these stories essentially keep the plots pretty simple and the ability to really create another completely different story with the exact same characters somewhat limited. Star wars did the same thing even with a mostly new cast and new directors with the 3 newish trilogy movies. Terry Brooks wrote a ton of the Shannara stories, many of them separate trilogies or sets, with essentially the same stories recycled, just with the previous books main protagonists relatives in the next generation. Buffy the vampire slayer is pretty much a bunch of seasons of her doing basically the same thing over and over again with slightly different demons or monsters, etc.
He did the same story (essentially) again, with the Elenium and Tamuli, which are basically a rehash of the Belgariad and Malloreon respectively... That said, I preferred the Elenium and Tamuli, as the characters were better fleshed out IMO
(Spoiler alert) It is mentioned at several points in The Mallorean that each confrontation between the Child of Light and the Child of Dark, the focal figures of the respective prophecies, were preceded by events and that these events were repetitions of previous events before previous confrontations. Belgarath and Garion speculated that the similarities of the proceeding events and the confrontations themselves were because of the catalysing event (the premature supernova of a sun that destroyed an entire galaxy) had essentially derailed the destiny of that universe, splitting the prophecy into two, Light and Dark, Progress and Stagnation, Growth and Entropy. Because the destiny of the universe was split, events and history were essentially put on a tightly controlled loop that allowed the two opposing prophecies to essentially fight it out to the death without destroying the universe in the conflict, with the victor deciding the true course of destiny in that universe.
@@anthonytaylor1723 hardly a spoiler at this point in time. But to everyone saying it, i'm not saying it isn't made clear from the books about the cyclic nature of things in the books. That's well understood. Its the fact he actually had the balls to actually write the books all over again and then sell them. It would be like if Robert Jordan (RIP) had lived on and basically rewrote the Wheel of Time books in a different cycle. Still, i bet it would have sold like hotcakes. :D
Never got into the Belgariad. I was an avid Elenium reader as a teen, and it still has strong emotional moments for me: Kalten, Flute. And some great gags - Ulath's technique for task sharing, the undead guardians of Azash's temple. But even as a teen, Ehlana's obsession with Sparhawk, some level of misogyny, the racialised descriptions of people (Styrics included) and the hypermature child characters bothered me somewhat. It's a more challenging reread as an adult.
I reread it a while ago, and there's literally a line in (I think) the first book where Sephrenia describes a specific way of thinking, and explains "it's a racial trait". I reeled back a bit when I got to that line. I still think the undead guardians and their lousy programming is hilarious, and the chemistry between Sparhawk and Kalten is fantastic - the "two bros, chillin' on a secret quest, five feet apart 'cause they're not gay!" energy is palpable. Plus the two mafia bosses (Stragen and Platime) were excellent. The romance was fuckin' weird though. I've never liked the whole "one person knew the other when they were a child, and now they're an item" trope.
@@18Hongo Yeah, so many contrasting great (some clever worldbuilding ideas and twists) and creepy things (Elhana and Sparhawk, Danae wanting to marry Talen). The "racial trait" thing is brushed away by Eddings as worldbuilding (worshippers get to think/behave like their chosen gods, hence Annias's increasing loss of subtlety and smarts over the course of the books) but it's such a slippery slope...
@markwinnington1426 Yeah... I know it was a different time, but the language really doesn't hit the ear right these days, does it? If I remember correctly, Talen was 10 and Flute was 4, so there was an opportunity to play that off as a little girl playing, but then Flute was also a goddess, and thus ancient and immortal, and Eddings managed to take the worst possible route with it.
Styrics are kind of a special case, given that they're coded as that world's version of Jews, and thus subjected to bigotry by their Elene neighbors in much the same way that Jews in our world were subjected to vicious pogroms in medieval Europe (and, of course, the Holocaust in the 20th Century). They're supposed to be seen sympathetically because of this persecution, and indeed, the heroes do see them that way, as they're among the minority of Elenes who don't openly act on any prejudices they might be harboring. This, of course, gets flipped on its head when the heroes visit Sarsos, a Styric haven on the Tamul continent, in the second series. One of the protagonists (I think it was Sparhawk himself) starts getting triggered that Styrics "have the nerve," as it were, to live happy lives free of any fear of persecution, rather than having to present as "smol beans uwu" in order to "earn" the sympathy of the Church Knights, ultimately getting called out for it (rightfully so) by one of the other characters.
@@18Hongo Regarding your issue with a 'child female' falling in love with and plotting to 'get' their man, I have two people for you to consider - Reed Richards and Sue Storm.
It's an easy read and great for a young person to leap into the Fantasy genre without excessive baggage. Is it written well? it's simple and clear. Doesn't have many surprises, but it handles certain tropes with a little extra finesse. It's harmless and I have recommended this series to any new person wanting to get into fantasy. It ages very well.
Gotta say, while Belgareth and others are possibly THE most powerful wizards I've ever read in Fantasy lit...it's really Silk that most impressed me in terms of capabilities! Excepting MAYBE Locke Lamora, he's probably THE Gold Standard of a Fantasy Thief! Then again, I've not read *everything*...Is there any rival to that King of Thieves throne?
I was introduced to the Belgariad when I was 16. I worked at B. Dalton and had been reading scifi and fantasy for many years. I’d read Dune, some Tolkien, McCaffrey,Asimov, Heinlein, Bradbury etc. I was going on my lunch break and said to my manager “Hey just read Shannara, you got any suggestions?” He handed me Pawn of Prophecy and I was hooked. I blew through the first 4 then only had to wait a few months for Enchanter’s Endgame. I did see some of the problems even then, particularly how women are treated. But looking back 51 years I can see how difficult it was to see some of it since that was the climate of the time. Also I was living in Alabama at the time. Just yesterday I was tutoring my 16 yr old nephew on the Civil War, particularly Native American involvement. He just doesn’t understand and I find it hard to explain why there was such racial hatred then. I finally told him that is one of his generation’s strengths. I grew out of my upbringing after I went out into the wider world, but having lived it, it is difficult to reconcile. I did not find out about the Eddings’ past until long after I’d read most of their books. I was actually thrilled to see Leigh added as an author later as I had started actively seeking out women writer’s of fantasy & scifi in my teens. I revisit The Belgariad and Mallorean about once a decade. As the series was coming out I can now see that it seemed to coincide with times in my life I most needed comfort reads. Belgariad while I was tackling my first real job and finishing high school. The Mallorean while in the Army and stationed in Korea, far from home. The 3 additional books as I’m navigating college, marriage and adulting (still haven’t got the hang of adulting). They were easy comfortable reads exactly when I needed them. Revisiting them is like snuggling up with a soft warm blanket and a cup of tea. Yes, I struggle with the Eddings past as I do Rowling, Asimov, Orson Scott Card and others. But I’d already read all of them by the time their problems came out so I can’t forget them. I also know the horrible views I was taught and held as a child and teenager, yet by the time I’m leaving the Army at 22 and into college I completely realigned my thinking. I recently told my nephew, “We can’t help how we are raised. We can only try to grow and change as we learn and experience new things.”
Beautiful summary...Wait, what did Asimov do?? I don't think i want to know...I know it's not fashionable or maybe even ethical, but more and more, I find myself invoking "Separating the Art from the Artist", because it seems that Artists are actually only human, therefore very flawed and often messed up; quite probably every artist of the past who is dead and gone said, believed or did something that would get them cancelled today, and frankly, if we can't allow ourselves to be entertained by anyone who is less than Perfect, then we're just going to have to entertain ourselves with shadow puppets or something! Your story shows very well how Life is complex, leads us to strange places and is rarely just "black and white"...I dunno, but thanks for your memories!
Rowling is guilty only of having a sensible take on gender delusions. A man is a man and a women is a women. End of fucking story. It is completely sick how nutcases are trying to cancel her for sticking up for abused women. Biological men absolutely do not belong in women's shelters and anyone who thinks she is wrong is a vile degenerate.
I re-read them every few years, as well, and I know exactly what you mean about them being comfort reading. You know the good guys are gonna win, you know everything will be all right, and you just tag along and enjoy the ride like you're going on a long trip among people you consider family
I've read that series several times since I first discovered it back in the 80s, and my wife and kids have also read them, they never get old, and each time it's like revisiting old friends, the characters are great.
I was 16 when The Belgariad came out, and I loved it at the time. However, it’s definitely a product of its era. When I tried to revisit it more recently, I found it difficult to get through the first few chapters. You have to remember that the fantasy genre in the 70s and early 80s had been somewhat stagnant, with only a few standout authors keeping it alive. The late 70s and 80s marked the beginning of a renaissance in fantasy literature, as authors like Terry Brooks, Raymond E. Feist, and David Eddings took risks that paved the way for a boom in the genre.
Y'know, it's interesting. I was really charmed by the opening bits of Pawn of Prophecy, and the hazy dream-like description of Garion's youth. Ah well... the mileage does vary!
The ultimate introduction to fantasy distilled into a book series. These books may be considered lightweight, but I would bet this series got as many into fantasy as Tolkein. A fun breezy read.
@@Mike_W78 This would be my pick! Personally, I felt it was at its best with the second book (Elfstones), tho, and I tapped out a few books after that...
All four of his series are some of my favorite books. I love them don't really care for letting real world issues as a reason to not love them. If we do that with all our works of literature, art, and music we'll always find reasons to discard all of it.
I still read the Belgariad and the Mallorean every year since I first discovered Eddings' works while deployed to Desert Storm. I started with the Diamond Throne and love all his series.
Ageless. Read it at least 7 times since I've discovered it 30+ years ago. I miss Aunt Pol and Mister Wolf terribly. When men were men and women were women.
I remember the books very fondly and I think they have some interesting ideas, as well as some parts that did not age so well, but after learning that Eddings had tortured and abused his foster children, I cannot bring myself for a re-read.
We named our daughter after a character in Dragon Lance 🎉 she's grown now and has never gotten around to reading the series, but she loves books and loves her name so I take it as a win ❤️
Art should be judged on it's own merit, not the deeds of the author(s). There is a valid argument to not give the author money if they are a bad person, but once they are dead, the argument dies with them. To each their own, but I think hating the Eddings' work purely because of their crimes is, let's say, not very reasonable.
I really wanna involve spoilers, but that's against the rules. But I CAN give my two favorite quotes ...... 'Does bouncing count?' And, elsewhere..... 'You left his foot sticking out.' Hrm..... it occurs that both lines were uttered by Silk
I've read the Belgariad ,Mallorian, Belgarath and Polgara also the Elenium and the Tamuli. All are fantastic reading. Eddings is one of the masters of the fantasy genre.
As one of the small group of dedicated fans, I am super happy and thankful that no one has tried to do any movies, shows or games. I love the original works. And considering how modern creators are screwing up classic fantasy ( Shannara, Sword of Truth, RoP and Amazon's WoT for example), yeah ... very happy that no one will touch it.
I feel this. There was a time when getting an adaptation was a holy grail, but these days I actually understand Eddings anti-adaptation attitude. To be honest I don't even like what's happened with Middle-earth over the years. Jackson's movies were already a mixed bag but the games based on them feel like fanfiction, and then there's Amazon's Rings of Power...
I thought the Shannara show was okay, but then, I'd never read the books. Sword of Truth sucked because those books suck. I actually like the Wheel of Time adaption, in some ways, it's going to be an improvement over the slower books, because it cuts out a lot of the fat and irrelevant side characters and focuses the story in a way that Jordan lost around books 8-10 ("The Slog").
Nice analysis. I ran into the books on my way home from a scout Jamboree, in the 80s. Swallowed the first 2 I bought at a country town newsagency on the trip back, and over time, read all the Eddings' works. I only recently discovered the controversy, and disappointing as it was, I still was able to come back to the books recently as a brief retreat into a simpler time.
I first got into fantasy in the late 70s, so it's no surprise these were some of my favorite books. My 40 yo copies are still on my shelves. And yet...I tried to reread them a few years ago and just couldn't. The writing seemed rather juvenile and the pacing too slow for present me. It also really made me aware of how much fantasy (and I) changed over the decades. Like, they weren't bad books, but they'd never make it on to my shelf of favorites today, either. It made me sad.
Same era for me. I saw the Rankin/Bass animated special of The Hobbit in 1977 and immediately wanted to read the book, which led to a lifelong interest. Honestly, this along with so much of what I read in that era including authors like Terry Brooks, Dennis L. McKiernan (who was doing the most blatant copy of Tolkien), and Weis and Hickman just do not hold up on a modern re-read.
Same here, I managed to finish the first book of the Game of thrones... The people who do horrible things seem to win. Why bother? The real world is like that way too much. While I like a bit of grimdark now and then, I also want fantasy where (unlike reality) Good actually prevails.
In addition to the writing and the characters, I was fascinated by the maps. They were so detailed. I have yet to find another fantasy series with as detailed of maps. Eddings' brilliance was how he wrote the connecting scenes. Where not much plot was happens, but you have the characters interacting. For me, those travel scenes and down time scenes were so entertaining.
The Malloreon is the sequel and better because it elevates the character dynamics and went beyond the basic pseudo-Tolkien plot. The other stuff doesn’t change.
I have always recommended David Eddings and The Belgariad to people who are interested in starting getting into fantasy. I'm honest, and tell people that it's a bit dated, and kind of basic, but it's straight forward, easy to follow the plot lines, and can be read in a weekend. I'll always love the series because it's what got me into fantasy novels while in elementary school.
I read the elenium and the tamuli trilogies by David Eddings back in the 90s. I enjoyed them back then. Ive thought about rebuying the elenium trilogy again cause i remember particularly digging that one over the tamuli trilogy. I believe I tried reading the mallorean series but couldn't get into it.
So, you have a young boy, whose parents were killed by a powerful, evil sorcerer. He is unaware of his own power until tutored by a powerful good sorcerer. He goes through many challenges and eventually confronts and defeats his parents' killer. Sounds familiar - but I'm sure JK never read The Belgariad.
Yeah! One of the thumbnail options is, but I thought it captured the same vibe as mr wolf and garian, I'm currently AB testing a couple thumbnail options though! But actually speaking of that I really should cover Magician: Apprentice sometime..
@@exitsexamined I was wondering what was happening the Riftworld image, especially when I saw the 3rd timestamp say this was "the World of Conan"! hehe.
I ADORED the Belgariad! I reread it several times. I read a lot of The Black Company too. I also loved the Lloyd Alexander series Taran Wanderer. I'm 61, still love fantasy. Confusion to the Murgos!
I find the Chronicles of Prydain hold up a lot better for me than the Belgariad does. Lloyd Alexander wrote some dark, dark stuff, but the warmth and growth of the characters prevented the stories from being grim and nihilistic.
There were also the Belgarath and Polgara standalone novels, but by that point the formula was getting VERY repetitive. As in, the books were mostly just rehashes of stories and events already told. The Elenium and Tamuli books were also decent, but the fingerprints of the formula were also evident there. Different enough to be worth a read. And then there was the Redemption of Althalus, which has the benefit of wrapping everything up in a single volume and is set it its own unique world and setting.
But that's THE formula. For pretty much every piece of fiction. Meet hero. Hero goes on quest, making friends and mistakes along the way. Eventually hero meets bad guy. They have confrontation, hero wins. Either wrap it up, or set up for the next book. It's not always a literally traveling quest. Sometimes it's to learn something, or make something and no one actually goes anywhere. But I'd have a real hard time coming up with a book that doesn't fit the formula.
@@ThisIsATireFire The difference with Eddings is he explicitly says (in The Rivan Codex? can't recall exactly) that he's being deliberately formulaic, that the series is an experiment in genre fiction. I can't really argue with your description, but to paraphrase, "Meet hero. Stuff happens, Final thing happens." It's not surprising that most things fit that template; it's hard to come up with a plot that does NOT meet that template. It covers most of the Seven Basic Plots - but not all of them. Eddings goes into a LOT more detail on the formula he uses.
Aaaah the first bookseries i ever re-read as a young teen (3-5isch years later) and alot of your remarks hit me even then. But boy oh boy did i like it the first time. Oh and this was the first of your vids i ever was recomendes sure hope the rest are as good
a problem with an analysis like this is that it's viewing sex and race issues through a modern lens. WHY WOULD A MEDIEVAL SOCIETY VIEW THE WORLD THROUGH A MODERN LENS?!? do you think real medieval peasants would have thought much differently than as portrayed by eddings? are the views presented an extension of eddings himself or are they an attempt at extrapolating the worldview of people living in this setting? imagine a story set in real medieval england. if the characters are not explicitly and constantly racist and sexist as ue would consider it, it would be inaccurate. it actually bugs the shit out of me when period pieces have radically revisionist morals and attitudes that DISTORT what it was actually like to appease modern sensibilities. screw that. portrayals ought to be authentic and damn our morality.
It's a good point but have you read the belgariad? I'm not saying that the books should fundamentally change the society of the series and remove it from a historical setting and what that would look like. The problem is that the way he writes woman perspective (and many other characters) is incredibly one dimensional. It's just leaves a bad taste and if you give the series a reread I think you'll really quickly see what I mean! Also fantasy is a different world with different rules, Polgara is one of the most powerful people in this universe! But love discussion in any form and thanks for watching the vid!
A work of fantasy set in a fictional setting is not historical, so there can be no historical accuracy. This is not a story set it real medieval England, so there is no need for the characters to adhere to historically accurate actions and beliefs of that place during that time. Furthermore, it seems that you're suggesting that the _characters_ should be sexist and racist in order to be believable, but what's problematic here is the sexism and racism of the _writer_ in their portrayal of the world and the characters. I actually agree with you that it's frustrating when period pieces ignore actual problematic issues by pretending they weren't there. But I don't think works of fantasy in fictional settings count as period pieces.
Progressive moralizing is annoying. Seems the world is coming around to that realization as well. Also, the people claiming that 'because dragons are in it, it doesn't need to be realistic' are either intentionally missing the point, or not getting it. Game of Thrones had dragons of it, but it was very grounded and realistic for a fantasy setting. Shrek, also a fantasy setting with dragons and fantasy-stuff, is not realistic or grounded. There's degrees of 'realism' in a setting.
Considering the books were popular in Japan, I have the theory that C'Nedra actually serves as an inspiration for legions of spoiled red haired tsundere princesses in Fantasy and other genres.
Been thinking of rereading these books. It's been decades and I recall really liking them, though a lot of this does sound very familiar. Interesting to find a video about the series, it seems rare for anyone to talk about it nowadays.
I think your description of the Belgariad as a "gateway" drug to fantasy is very apt. I randomly picked up the book at my high school library back when I was a freshman or sophomore and I was instantly hooked. The Malloreon kind of ruined the series for me, since at the time, I felt it was rather repetitive of the original series and I felt that there was little character development. Also after a while I discovered other super talented fantasy, horror and sci fi authors (Dan Simmons, Robert Jordan, etc) that made this series seem childish in comparison. With all that said, I'm still grateful to this series for getting me into the speculative fiction band wagon.
The funniest I see in the discourse around any of the creative arts is how much people talk about artist pouring their heart and soul into their works and how much they echo the lived experience of the creator right up until the moment that something unpleasant comes out about that creator at which point the art and the artist no longer have any relationship whatsoever.
That's very true, but people are not one dimensional. Artists can pour their heart and soul into a work without revealing all of themselves, or even understanding themselves. Then there is the influence of their imagination. Wagner produced some excellent music whilst being a nasty piece of work personally. He kept that facet of himself out of his music. Never meet your heroes, you won't like them.
Timeless. I have read it four or five times and listened to the audio version as many times. It has some of the best drawn and most fun characters of any fantasy, with fun interaction and dialogue. The basic plot arc is masterful. It has some issues, which get worse in the Mallorean, but it's still glorious. I could not care less if it portrays race in a way that is not consistent with modern progressive thinking.
One surprising bit of legacy from these books was a (possible) reference in the Netflix fantasy series "The Dragon Prince". There's a teenage enchantress with dark hair who winds up with a white streak in it; her journey is very different to Polgara's, but when I saw the character with her white lock of hair, Pol was the first thing that came to mind.
Nah, the white lock of hair being associated with witches has a really long history. If you dig through pop culture it's associated with a ton of, usually female, often evil, characters. But being modeled on Pol wouldn't be the worst thing.
Ooooft, you had to really try to get physical abuse charges in 70's We're talking an era where striking with a closed hand - totally fine Belt, rod,cane,switch ect - okay as long as marks faded within a week Not only your parents but teachers/priests/anyone you gave parental authority too could do the same.
I don't know how old you are, but I was around during the 70s, and I can assure you that the vast majority of parents loved their children, and did not constantly beat them. I recall the threat of a spanking as being more a deterrent factor than something that parents were eagerly awaiting to do.
@@hoi-polloi1863 I don't think the rate of child abuse is any higher or lower in the 70s than it is today, it's just that the law took it less seriously than it does today, unless it was a really heinous case.
How nostalgic. I remember how these, and later 'The Malloreon' came out her just before Christmas. I started reading the newest novel on the train on my way to my granny's place for the Holiday and break. Once I finished the new one, I reread the series from start. It's been now decades since that, but I still have the books. Maybe I should revisit my youth this year....
I read these when I was a kid too. ‘Breezy’ is the word I’d use. Most of the cringier stuff, I think, kind of flies under the radar because of how ‘arch’ the characters and situations are-almost to the point of genre absurdity. In fact, I heard and believed for a long time that the Belgariad was originally written to MOCK other fantasy stories of its type-Garion is a moron, Belgarath is a drunken lecher, with all of the ‘people defined by their culture and heritage’ stuff jacked up to 11.
I feel like the "mockery" interpretation is probably extremely generous to Eddings. I could buy it if any of his other writing displayed an ability to break that mold but I'm not aware of any which does.
@fuzzzone Fair. 'Redemption of Althalus' was terrible. But as I said, that was simply an explanation which made sense at the time, and somewhat connects with statements made in the Rivan Codex.
I was first introduced to Pawn of Prophecy in high school by my school librarian in the naughties. I enjoyed it so much I nicked my mothers copies to find out what happened next. I loved the banter between the characters, how they teased one another, I loved the world building and most especially how easy it was to just pick up a book and get lost in the story. I'd read The Lord of the Rings before being introduced to The Belgariad and I had struggled with it, despite enjoying the story of the fellowship's efforts to destroy the one ring. The main reason being for my struggle to enjoy Tolkiens work was, for the most part, because I was 10-11 when I started reading them and Tolkien had a nasty tendency to drag out his descriptions of the world you travel through, which as a preteen bored me to tears and made me want to skip whole pages and chapters just to get to some dialogue or action that would pull me back into the story. This is an issue I never had with The Belgariad. Eddings kept the narrative flowing and held my interest, even in the downbeats of the story where the characters are just travelling along with nothing really happening plot wise. As an adult, I can see a fair few problematic points in The Belgariad and The Mallorean, particularly in the generalised view of the various races being defined by one specific trait, as well as the over emphasis of gender roles. I do have a particular problem with the character Barak as much of what he says and does, especially in the first couple of books, is honestly not acceptable by todays standards, with his advocating wholesale genocide, his propensity to use violence to solve his problems and most especially with how he interacts with his wife, Merel, in the first book. There is a paragraph in Pawn of Prophecy where Merel outright states that Barak forced himself upon her, despite her protestations, and it is never addressed or acknowledged beyond a rather pointed comment by Polgara at the end of Queen of Sorcery when she tells him that he is going to have a son as a result of that particular event. That being said, it did not detract too much from my enjoyment of the story when I reread them as an adult. The world, for all its faults, was richly imagined, most of the characters were still fun to follow and the banter between them was still very entertaining.
Oh I've been waiting for this one! Even as a teen I found Eddings' world and characters wanting, especially coming to the series after reading Prydain. And his portrayal of women always rubbed me wrong, tbh Ce'nedra was one of my favourite characters *because* she was spoilt, vain, and had a temper! Her arc was one of the best of both series, and her character growth was a breath of fresh air within the narrative. I also really liked Silk, and eventually Velvet.
@@rungus24 I think by and large it is still good. It's aimed at the young adult market, but it's got that high fantasy feel that makes it easily accessible to adults too. The portrayal of female characters in the story is varied, but overall pretty good, I think.
Honestly, as much as I love The Belgariad, the portrayal of women in the series is a consistent (and valid) criticism any time I hear it discussed. I'll certainly give Eddings a point for not just sticking a "Damsel in distress" trope in there, but he definitely could have been a bit less condescending when he wrote Ce'Nedra. I did rather like Lelldorin and Mandorallen; the idea of two enemies-turned-friends who are both devastatingly well-meaning and complete idiots was rather a lot of fun.
My favorite Ce'Nedra moment was when she gave a very good argument (in context, at least) for Boob Armor and why she *needed* it! Always came back to me whenever I'd hear complaints about that on the internet later in life...😅
I think there is something to be said for separating the author from his work, but I also can understand how it colors peoples opinions of it. It's tricky!
I think there is some minor nobility in refusing to partake in something enjoyable so as to not finance people or companies you think are negative in some way. But, you know, Eddings is dead. We ain’t financing him.
@@89Dienekes Even if he was still alive, this was a crime he already did time for before the series was published, and he wouldn't be adopting children ever again, making it rather different from an Orson Card situation. Maybe people say "that's a toxic person I don't want telling me stories", but I don't think we can be sure on that, much easier to judge the story itself.
I remember loving this series and hanging out for the next book. That is all that matters and is of importance. Woke was something you were after you in the morning after the alarm went off. It really, really still should be that way, the world would be a much better place.
Not necessarily. Some have sound effects and multiple actors. They're closer to radio dramas. Some are abridged for time. Changing art from one media to another is by definition an adaptation.
Really enjoyed this but as someone who was devouring fantasy novels avidly in the 80s I'd like to point out that there was loads before and after Eddings. It's true that fantasy struggled to set the box office on fire back then but the book market was full and varied
Big, huge, fan of these as they arrived in the 80s. Teen me did not spot anything problematic at the time, loved em. Stupidly sold the books for beer money in my early 20s, been busy reacquiring then in the same editions. Missing book 2....
An ad in a fantasy-themed magazine for Polgara the Sorceress is what got me into the Eddings books, and I think I ended up reading everything fantasy that they ever wrote. My favorite was one of the later series, I can't recall the name offhand but the main character guy was a paladin for a religion that was basically Christianity with the serial numbers filed off, and yet one of his companions turned out to be a goddess from another pantheon, who was an eternal child. I remember finding that idea very fascinating. Oh, and the macguffin was heavily inspired by Norse mythology as well. It was a fascinating pair of series.
I read this the first time in the mid-80s; again in the 90s. And I've got the 2 volume set on my bookshelf. So, fine, I'll read it again. And I'll still enjoy the hell out of it!
There are plenty of high fantasy stories out there to fill the void. Those grimdark stories are just one of many dark fantasy stories where good and evil aren't easily defined and good doesn't always win. I enjoy both. I can see why people who want to escape into a fantasy world don't want to read stories that are more similar to real life, where people are shades of gray and good and evil aren't protagonists and antagonists looking to save/destroy the day. I love both. Many of these darker fantasy stories like a song of ice and fire and Steven Erickson's books, Karen mills works, brent weeks works,etc are very well written and extremely compelling because of the gritty realism involved.
I think this analysis misses a crucial point: this story is told exclusively from the point of view of the main character Garion. While I'm not suggesting that the author was complex enough to make this the main focus of his storytelling, but Belgarath himself admits to having severe prejudices against Angaraks, which was something that was prevalent on both sides. Angaraks were just as mistrustful of Westerners as the Alorns were mistrustful of them. It wasn't until the Mallorean that we got a peek behind the curtains of Angarak society, so it makes logical sense that we'd get a one sided view of their culture. The fact that these explicit statements were included in the story says to me that Eddings was at least aware of the points made here and wasn't really bothered by them because there was a certain amount of justification for this attitude in a world that mimics our own history, which was clearly steeped in prejudice. As far as the author himself, we have a bad tendency to equate the man with the story, and the problem with that is that the story itself should always be judged completely separately from the person who wrote it when it comes to morality. The story itself is either good or bad, and the morals included aren't diminished just because the author doesn't live up to them. A story is something we see from our own point of view, and every story is up to a certain amount of interpretation. My vision of what the characters and scenes look like will differ vastly from someone with a different background from my own.
Magician's Gambit was the first novel i read as a kid. stole it off my mom's bedroom shelf. it was the summer break after first grade i think and i was obsessed with X-Men on Saturday mornings. I thought the book was about that Gambit. i remember being super confused and finally having to ask my mom why they were talking about things that didn't happen yet. she got me Pawn of Prophecy off the same shelf in her room and i went through the whole series. i ended up liking The Elenium more than The Belgaraid though. i haven't revisited those books since elementary school though. not sure i want to. too many fond memories have been ruined by revisiting them over the years.
Nice video and analysis! A few thoughts... * The "national character inspired by gods" business I thought was actually interesting as worldbuilding. Why shouldn't the gods shape their guys? * That whole setup actually made the Malloreon more interesting, as we got to see the more domestic side of Murgos etc. * The focus of the women on marriage/kids/etc is there, but do recall that our own culture has changed a lot in the past few decades. It would have been even more jarring to me at least if Cenedra had loudly insisted she wanted to work in an office... ;D * I was shocked speechless about the criminal activities of the Eddingses. Still can't wrap my head around that. * There are times when I think Polgara needs to get her attitude adjusted with a brick. She's so tender to Durnik after he kills his first foe, but when Garion freaks out over his first killing in battle, she tells him to suck it up. * I always enjoyed how the Prophecy has a personality of its own, and seems to go out of its way to annoy Belgarath!
Chronicles of Prydain hold up amazingly well for me. I loved it as a 9/10 year old, still love it as a 45 year old. The Redwall series got repetitive after a while, but Redwall, Mossflower, Mattimeo, and Mariel of Redwall are all terrific.
TLDR: “Old” book series doesn’t meet contemporary mores = bad. Authors ran into legal troubles = double-bad. If you still like now, that’s bad too. They’re still great books, but the exposition/critique here may help explain why the series hasn’t become a family friendly version of Game of Thrones. Such a production - if true to the source- would be great!
23:00: With Eddings dead he doesn't get to call the shots at this point. I guess whoever is in charge of his estate didn't care to hold to those wishes. His brother maybe? Would be kind of ironic if it was those two kids they briefly adopted. Or possibly sweet depending on how that went down. 27:00: Not just allegations. They pled guilty and were sentenced. Now maybe they were framed or something, I haven't looked into it, but I don't think allegations is the right word.
@@RecklessFables As is the fact that on his death, several million $ were left to a charity for helping kids after that sort of treatment and to a school. They did their time, didn't re-offend then tried to help others.
I loved all of the David Eddings books. Both the Belgariad, The Elenium and the Tamuli. I tried rereading the Lensman series of books and failed miserably. It was so bad I had to think how did I believe it was so good when I originally read it in the 1970s. This video has made me think what about the history of the Thomas Covenant 'The White Gold Wielder' series of books. Perhaps a subject for another video.
Sometimes it's nice to just enjoy a traditional happy ending fantasy story. I've read it maybe 7 times over the last 35 years and it's just comforting. Plus Silk is just the best
Will happily dagger a man in the dark, but would rather die than get pulled through solid rock again. He was always my favourite. I love that scene where he and his half brother start negotiating.
Prince Kheldar might be one of my favorite characters in fiction!
@JohnnyMalkav Zeddicus Z'Ul Zorander, First Wizard of Aydindril, from Sword of Truth, and Barak of Trelheim, are my #1 and 2, but Silk is a close 3rd.
@razzlebazzle420 Barak is also pretty up there on my list! Still have yet to read the Sword of Truth series, so I have new reads to tackle in '25!
@JohnnyMalkav now, that is a series that is very black and white, literally in some ways. it's core is the philosophy of Ayn Rand's objectivism, there are those that take and those that create (or give of themself). Magic is additive, or it is subtractive, positive or negative, good and evil (they literally bargain with the devil for subtractive. But Zedd is a complex character, where War Wizard Richard Rahl, keeps it simple, he carries the sword of truth, which amplifies his anger, making him a kind of righteous crusader for most of the first book. He knows how to ask questions and the truth is the highest moral duty of all good people. Sometimes the extended metaphor is kinda ham, but it was my first ever full fantasy series where I was waiting years on books, and it will always have a special place in my heart
I have reread the Belgariad and Mallorean every 10-15 years or so. I enjoyed them each and every time. They are a fun read with fun characters. That is all that matters.
I'm with you there.🤓
Some people want more from their books and there’s nothing wrong with that either
Make's two of us. I've also read both of his follow up series several times.
I read both about a 2 years apart...Im on book 3 of The Mallorean atm!!!
And yet they never get old
I'm not sure it's intentional, but Garion's passivity early on makes sense: he IS a pawn, quite literally in a prophecy. And only when he crosses the entire board (I mean map) does he get promoted to king. Even there, the king is a critical piece on the board but not the most powerful. Garion and the large plans of the prophecy, depend on everyone doing their part.
You sure it's not because Polgara would not allow him to make decisions? Most of these kind of tales happen when your little hero is NOT having any parental figure around stopping them. Garion is an orphan but Polgara totally fulfills the role of adventure-stopping parent. He was crowned a king and still hesitated a bit. Eventually he decided to sneak out like the teen he was at 16. That little hide-from-a-subject -scene was funny and telling. He stopped playing hide-and-seek of the first series and went on to play the-godslayer-commands in the second.
Brah, you are me! Well your tag is. Garion is a kid, who is a pawn, easily trusting the motherlike Pol and grandpalike Belgarath, who wants to push Garion a little further each time once the prophetic sigils are revealed. The push-pull is narrative tension, while we are with Garion--trying to figure it all out. So, long story short, I agree Garion has not sufficiently powered up to be more than a pawn at this point. That's why the white queen and king (well no other analogue) are protecting him from the black king.
Spoiler alert ⚠️ just kidding, there's obviously been plenty of time for people to read both series.
@@elderscrollsswimmer4833 She is his ancestral aunt... Also a humble blacksmith is into very old women.
Honestly, the Bellgariad was not written for modern audiences. It was written at a time when black and white morality was the predominant type of story being told. The Belgariad, the Shanara series, Wheel of Time, LOTR, and many others are written with very clear heroes and villains. It was also written at a time where every little foible and crime of an author were not on full parade. Readers at the time judged the stories based on the quality of the story and not the author themselves. We could separate the art from the artist. Modern audiences and younger generations are far too cynical and judgemental to enjoy stories with real heroes and evil villains. Everyone wants to root for the villain more than the heroes and classic fantasy is not where you can do that.
At least in the Malloreon, Belgarath admits it's not good vs. evil, it's us vs. them. Although Zandramas being evil is quite clear, starting with her name being the ultimate curse word in Ulgo language. It's not that the Light party is all that good either...
@@Scudboy17 I honestly wish we could go back to the days when we knew nothing of the authors save their writing. Because some of the behind the scenes stuff that seemingly plagued the SF and Fantasy writing communities for at least 50 years makes it very hard to enjoy a lot of the stories now. Many of them were not simply bad people, but depraved monsters, and much of the rest knew and said/did nothing.
It is this generation's ability to root for the Evil "bad guy" that allowed the worst human being in the world to become President, not once, but twice! You need to learn ACTUAL critical thinking!
I whole-heartedly disagree. Belgarion is torn for several books after he smote a man. Silk is a murderer and a scoundrel. He exterminates a whole family for killing a fellow drasnian agent. Belgarath abandoned his daughter and went wh*ring for several years after the 'death' of his wife. Barak is a berserker, who's largest joy in life is to wage war. The Nyissan, Sadi is a poisoner, political asssassin and fixer for a vapid snake queen. Relg the diviner is a misogynistic religious fundamentalist who literally has to have a god intervene to make him stop.
The only 2 moral characters in the party are Durnik and Pol, and they're still not totally 'Good'. Pol refuses to let Garion grow up, until the prophecy intervenes, and Durnik is prudish, traditionalist, and quite closed minded.
Then the villain, Zedar, was literally mentally dominated by the overwhelming mind of the maimed God. He is very kind to Eriond, and Eriond remembers his time with Zedar fondly. I don't think he deserved what Belgarath did to him.
They were simple stories, sure, but to say they were black and white, hero's and villains, is just wrong. Just plain wrong.
the Elric Saga, Dellaney's Dhalgreen, Fritz Lieber's works, hell, even Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series were also 80's books and they all well understood Moral ambiguity. It was like the Shanara series just a hack-work LOTR rip-off
“Finished? You and I? How can you even begin to understand what I"ve had to do to bring you to this world? You"ve been my only care for over a thousand years. I"ve endured anguish and loss and pain beyond your ability to understand what the words mean - all for you. I"ve lived in poverty and squalor for hundreds of years at a time - all for you. I gave up a sister I loved more than my life itself - all for you. I"ve gone through fire and despair worse than fire a dozen times over - all for you. And you think this has all been an entertainment for me? - some idle amusement? You think the kind of care I"ve devoted to you for a thousand years and more comes cheaply? You and I will never be finished, Belgarion. Never! We will go on together until the end of days if necessary. We will never be finished. You owe me too much for that!” Still gets me every time
"Eddings can't write female characters"...Polgara would like a few words.
It's a great scene, but I do think Garion caved too quickly. He did have a bit of a point. After all, Polgara wasn't dedicated to *him* for a thousand years... she was dedicated to his role in the Prophecy. Just like she callously informed Ce'nedra that she'd drag her to Riva in chains, to fulfill the Prophecy. There are times I want to adjust Polgara's attitude with a stick. Contrast her treatment of Durnik after his first battle with her treatment of Garion after waxing Chamdar, right?
Eddings of course later came out and said that he AND his wife wrote the books. Once I found out that it seemed to be that certain characters were written exclusively by one of them. The way some of the characters banter back and forth feel like two people actually talking that it makes me think that it was.
@@hoi-polloi1863 At over a thousand years old, Polgara is a master manipulator. What she said was true, as is what you said. Her statement was crafted for maximum guilt. She designed it to do exactly what it did, stop him in his tracks, make him feel terrible even if he did have a point. She is there to raise and protect him. She has an obligation to him, to her father, to her god and the centuries of people who came before to see the prophecy to it's completion. If she has to guilt him to make him a little more pliable, so be it.
Personally, I don't care for today's grimdark fantasy and I like more "traditional" fantasy, so these books might my cup of tea.
The Eddings criminal past is very disturbing. But they did plead guilty and went to prison for their actions, so they were rightly punished for their crimes. On top of that, the couple has passed away a while back, so any purchase of their books or audiobooks aren't benefiting them.
Once upon a time, there was this idea, called justice. This idea suggested that a person could be punished for their crime, and then, having paid their dues, owed nothing more to society. Eddings never struck me as a particularly nice person (based on some of his comments), and it certainly does seem he lied a fair bit about his past. But unless you're thinking about leaving a toddler in his care, why should his past be a concern? He paid his debt.
Grimdark doesn't give me what I want out of fantasy at all, but Eddings' writing is so saccharine that I couldn't get beyond the Belgariad - which I began reading before all of it was published, when I was young and innocent. If you like your tea with 5 sugars, maybe....
Yeah... it may sound contraddictory coming from someone who accounts Berserk amoung his favourite fantasy series (I know it's a manga and not a novel, but still), but I do not findi today's grimdark fantasy appealing either. If I want to read about a world where life is a miserable struggle, good morals lead to failure, and evil triumphs because it's simply more powerful, I would simply read the news.
It does not mean that fantasy must be reduced to an overly simplistic world of black/white morality, but neither one when there's only shades of black or dark grey at most.
I agree. Although the crimes were untenable, they were ultimately not connected to the fiction.
@@virtualatheist Although when I was 15 reading about Sparhawks interactions with his Daughter/Goddess incarnate I cocked my eyebrow abit even at a younger age. Aahh well still enjoyed his works overall.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. It's a fun series. Don't overthink it. Just enjoy the story.
Leci n'est pas une pipe.
But why though
@@frozengoat5834 Why is a cigar just a cigar?
From the description, I can tell there's not much "story" in there to enjoy.
The downsides described prevent most ways in which stories function - the story requires a potential for change, more than one possible outcome.
@@SashaS-s2z The character interactions are where the joy in reading those books is derived from.
I like the Elenium/Tamuli series better. Sir Sparhawk is a boss
100% the superior series
Didn’t read the Belegraid but I did read the Elenium/Tamuli. I did enjoy it but I definitely felt that (spoilers) Sparhawk was too old to marry Ehlana. Other than that I wonder what else will hold up.
100% Changed how I viewed/played Paladins.
That said, it's Eddings, so it's still basically the same story as the Belgariad with the serial numbers filled off and the Tamuli was exactly the same story with a geography shift per formula lol
@@weaselwolf To be fair, the Elenium is the most off-formula of Eddings' six versions of the same story (Belgariad, Malloreon, Elenium, Tamuli, Althalus and Dreamers).
@@weaselwolfI am sure that any ideas they couldn't use for Belgariad got used in the Elenium. I prefer the 35 year old exiled Paladin cynic.
Expecting a book written in 1982 to have the same values as people 42 years later is absurd.
As far as race = good/evil, this was directly addressed and disproven in the sequel, the Mallorean, which is all about our original heroes and heroines discovering the Angaraks are actually decent people. Urgit, Vella, Yarblek, Cyradis, Toth, Senji: all good people. Even in the Belgariad, Belgarath makes this clear when he says there are good people in Cthol Murgos, but that Garion should be careful around any Murgos he sees in Sendaria, as those ones were sent by their government as spies.
Exactly as I see it. I will always love the series because of the strong morals and lack of pc
100% agree
I always saw it as the gods' influence "flavoring" their respective people. Yah, Drasnians are *going* to be annoying sneak-thieving gits to some extent or another, but we do get plenty of variation. Contrast Rhodar, Javelin, and Kheldar, right?
Thank you! I was going to say that.
@@Hrafnskald Racism and sexism were most definitely outdated concepts by 1982. (Notably, Alice Walker’s ‘The Colour Purple’ was published in 1982.) Frankly, they were outdated concepts by 1948. (Many lessons were learned during World War II.) But, of course, some people are slower to remove centuries-old bigotry scars from the cobwebbed pillars in their brains.
Your point about the monoculture issue does seem to ignore one overt detail: the people in this world were all just people, but then selected by a god and actually went off and lived beside their gods until a relatively recent point in history. We're talking like a few thousand years since their gods stopped living down the road. Is it any wonder that these cultures are extremely close to the ideas these gods modeled? They're basically all priests to a certain extent.
Yeah it was my sticking point with some of the reworking in D&D. Like their religions can actually deliver miracles on command...and the sword when needed. So there will be a strong tendency towards dogmatic cultures, because most people can't be bothered to resist intensive effort to shape their societies and your rebellious counter cultural types...either need healing at some point or get the mace to the face. But even then, monolithically "good" or "evil" societies or species hadn't been a thing since like the early 80's so IDK what the changes were intended to address. That said, there are some definite issues with the overall geographic "layout" of Edding's major works.
@@rubaiyat300 I'm actually surprised that there are atheists in the DnD setting. When you know that the head clerics in the big cathedral two towns over can cure diseases and bring sufficiently wealthy people back to life, it's kind of hard to deny that whatever they pray to is a god.
Then again I guess most of the atheists of that setting are arguing that the gods should not be worshipped because of something that happened in their life that they consider to be some kind of slight by the deities in question.
Then again, the Wall of the Faithless is common knowledge, so I would probably just pick some other god to worship, rather than risk ending up in there for all of eternity...
Would it shock you to realize it has been only 2000 years since the formation of the Roman empire? How many nations today bear any resemblance? Or how about the dozens of European nations that existed after and bear no semblance to the the modern people who live in the same land?
this is a very weak attempt to explain away the simplistic writing. just accept it for what it is. It doesn't make the books bad. They were written with a younger audience in mind.
in the Malloreon we see more diversity in the races. We find good people among the Angaraks. We see more depth to the companions. They arent quite so one dimensional. They had to do this in the second series. Given the ending and what it was all leading towards, even after the end of the series, they needed to show that all the races could be one eventually.
@@Drakenrahll it took the author a surprising amount of time to reach the "some people of the evil race aren't so" level of nuance.
It’s difficult to take this video seriously when the narrator constantly mispronounces one of the most important character’s name. It’s Polgara, not Polgaria.
... and the nation of "Ce Nedra" .. yikes
Agreed. was planning to write the same
Ha, I pronounced it Bell-je-rad as well... Bel-gary-add sounds way weird.
@slaapliedje of course it's Bel-gar-y-ad
@@slaapliedjeHow do you pronounce Garion?
I think one of the points of the Mallorean is that after the poisonous control of the evil god and his minions is broken then the "evil" lands are beginning to recover and good people are able to do good things.
Yeah, I distinctly remember the heroes meeting at least *some* decent people on their journey into the "evil lands"...Granted, it's been a while, so maybe it'd all read differently to me now, as the opening of this vid claims, but I don't recall it being as bad as all that...
@@HandofOmega Most of them, though were either good people from the first series, or were revealed to be secretly western people.
@@BrianS1981 I liked the Mallorean because it struck me as prospective. Throughout the Belgariad the Malloreans were 'evil' because that's how the west viewed them. In the Mallorian we learned that they were just people.
@@BrianS1981exactly one secret Westerner and IIRC 3 good people from the first series. And the last 3 books of the Mallorean are entirely within the territory of the evil races. Lots of good and decent people to be found.
I've seen a lot of hot takes from people about these books in recent years. All viewed through the twisted lens of modern liberal thinking. A good example is the narrator of this video referring to people in the East as Asians. There are no Asians, it's a fantasy world. It's the same bad logic that leads people to say that Orcs in D&D represent Black people. In these and all other successful fantasy novels, it's human nature that is purely expressed while all other things may be completely manufactured.
If you want a grimdark series that's underrated af, try "The Black Company". It's basically military fiction in a fantasy setting.
One of my favorite fantasy series. I've listened to the audiobooks at least once a year.
Sounds really cool, how does it compare to something like warhammer? I put it on the list
@exitsexamined it's better. I ditched the Eddings after I found that he and his wife were locked up for child abuse.
Solid recommendation.
I don't suppose you can recommend something of the _opposite_ of that? I'm weary of how serious and grim fantasy has gotten in modern times - I want high adventure with idealistic heroes and humor and stuff, and I've been considering rereading the Belgarion books just because I can't find anything new along those lines.
Garion didn't win by stabbing Torak, he won by refusing to submit to Torak's attempt to dominate and enslave him, as the dark god had dominated and enslaved his people:
"Hear me, maimed and despised God," he grated from between clenched teeth. "You are nothing. Your people fear you, but they do not love you. You tried to deceive me into loving you; you tried to force Aunt Pol to love you; but I refuse you-even as she did. You're a God, but you are nothing. In all the universe there is not one person-not one thing-that loves you. You are alone and empty, and even if you kill me, I'll still win. Unloved and despised, you'll howl out your miserable life to the end of days."
Garion's words struck the God like blows...
...This was why Garion had come to this decaying ruin-not to fight Torak, but to reject him."
Exits Examined, at the end of the first series, it isn't Garion killing burnt face that fulfills the prophecy; it is Polgara's rejection of Torak. The fight happens to take Torak off the game board.
Durnik's sacrifice, Polgara's strength, and Garion rejecting him. Her role was key, but so were theirs.
It even says that the "fight" was almost anticlimactic. By rejecting Torak, his need to be accepted/worshipped was unfulfilled and so he failed; had Polgara gone to him, he would have been unassailable and the PotD would have "won". And yes, Torak appealed to Belgarion to love him too, but from my perspective that was always because he had been supporting Polgara's will to resist by projecting memories of Durnik to her. It was truly Polgara's choice that decided everything but yes, Durnik and Belgarion played absolutely key supporting roles in that conflict.
@@HuckFlynn They were the necessary steps to check the C.O.D (torak) and the pod while the light from the cosmic accident arrived 20 odd years later.
@@HuckFlynn They were the necessary steps to check the C.O.D (torak) and the pod while the light from the cosmic accident arrived 20 odd years later.
@@HuckFlynn I'm reminded of the Prophecy's advice to Garion about how to keep Torak out of his head. Along the lines of, "Keep thinking about Ce'nedra. It'll probably annoy him as much as it annoys me!"
I was NOT expecting this video! I started reading the Belgariad in the '80s, followed by the Mallorean, and finally the two "prequel books", Belgarath the Sorcerer, and Polgara the Sorceress. I recall waiting eagerly for the next novel in the series, and was never disappointed by the content. My two favorite characters were Belgarath, and Silk, the Drasnian Prince/Spy/Assassin. I still have all the books. Maybe it's time for another read-through... 🤗🤗🤗
I was an adult when I read the Belgariad. I remember it quite clearly. Don't have a problem with it
I still love The Belgariad. And read it at least every couple of years.
Nothing wrong with that, it's a nice, comfy read for the most part!
Wokie jackass @@exitsexamined
@@exitsexaminedare you sure it’s not ‘problematic’?
It is reiterated over and over throughout the entire series that the “Evilness” is imposed from the top down and the truly evil leaders are offed or changed and replaced by better ones. His pronunciation of the names in this are killing me. There is NO I in Polgara! Also that racist grandfather states that he feels pity for most of the Angaraks because they don’t have a choice in what they’re forced into! I actually DID have a racist grandfather, 2 in fact and yeah Belgarath doesn’t even come close.
Belgarath isn't the racist grandfather, Eddings is. Belgarath isn't telling us the story.
@@SilortheBladeso you're saying that, even though Eddings is racist, he found it in his heart to write from the perspective of a non-racist grandfather, who is a major character in his book? Okay
I remember this series and enjoyed them. My favorite was Katherine Kurtz’ Deryni stories. But the Belgariad was definitely among my go to books to read back then.
The Belgariad and the Mallorean were favorites of mine when I was younger. So was Magician: Apprentice, Magician:Master, Silverthorn etc, by Feist.
Magician is my favourite book, Silk is my favourite character in fiction.
Hey, I also grew up with those two series! Though eventually I got into Conan and the Barsoom stories as well.
The Riftwar series by Raymond E. Feist is my favorite. I found Magician: Apprentice sitting on a shelf in my closet and asked my parents if I could read it. It was my first foray into fantasy books and I've been hooked every since.
This series is great. I read the first book (recommended by a friend) many moons ago whilst I was in high school. Fast forward three decades, and I finally tracked down the series in its entirety and read it. I'm so glad that I did, as this was a refreshing tale of good and evil written in a manner that can be easily followed and greatly enjoyed.
Her name is not Polgaria there is no I in her name
Thank you. Came looking to see if anyone had already said something about it.
Wasn't it originally spelled Pol'gara? The ' gets dropped over thousands of years. I think it was mentioned in the books.
@@kgjung2310 Indeed, Pol and Bel are additions from their God.
Also Sendaria is not pronounced “Ce’nedra” (Xe’nedra). Doesn’t detract from a good video though
Also Sendaria is not pronounced “Ce’nedra” (Xe’nedra). Doesn’t detract from a good video though
I fondly remember these books. The criminal convictions were news to me, but people aren't perfect, and bad people can make good art.
I will say that the constant reference to "the allegations" in the back half of the script is distracting. The crimes aren't alleged: he was convicted. There's no dispute about that, his estate can't sue you for defamation.
Reminds me of how I dealt with Mists of Avalon. The author turned out to be a vile abuser, but I loved their art. Finally, I decided it was like blaming a child for the actions of the parent. If it's not actively glorifying the actions they were convicted of, and are no longer benefitting from royalty sales, it feels a bit more tolerable. It doesn't change the feelings I had while reading the book originally. I'd rather never know anything about creators of art these days. It's safer!
@@araneljonesyups People, Even Artists have problems.
I agree, except when the awfulness of the author creeps into their work. Especially when it’s not an author *known* to be awful, but their work has continual references to pretty heinous stuff.
I’m not trying to libel or slander anybody, but once you’ve read Piers Anthony’s Firefly the rest of his stuff (especially the Incarnations of Immortality) starts to feel extremely icky
I've read somewhere (maybe on a blog post, can't say for sure) that the Eddings' wrote The Belgariad as a form of apology for their actions to those poor children. What they did was horrendous, the details of what they did to those poor children were harrowing, but they were convicted of their crimes, they were punished and served time for what they did, D Eddings lost his university teaching position and they both suffered a downgrade in social standing at the time, and most importantly, they understood that what they did was wrong and did not reoffend (to my knowledge) so in my opinion, this should not be an issue in enjoying the books.
Unfortunately we live in a society that will get worked up over actions that have already been dealt with at the time and will continue to hold those actions against the individual and their creations long after the issue. I wish people now would learn to move past issues and crimes that have already been dealt with and resolved. I'm not saying that what they did should be forgotten or even forgiven but people should acknowledge the fact that they had already paid the price for their actions and move on. It would be different if it was a current and ongoing issue like JK Rowling's continuing comments and attacks on the trans community and their supporters, and the allegations of sexual assault being levelled against Neil Gaiman but it isn't. It's in the past, they were caught and punished, they have tried to make amends and they are now dead.
They didn't make amends to the extent of financial compensation, though, which they might have done. At least, not according to the person on another forum who said he had been the boy in the case.
This was my first introduction to fantasy. I read it when I was about 14 for the first time. I re-read it every few years, as well as The Elenium. It’s comfort reading, takes me back to my childhood
I was 14 as well, and I also reread Belgariad and Elenium every few years. I think I've re-read Malloreon maybe 3 times and Tamuli never
The "race/gender" criticism falls flat for me. The most important character start to finish is a woman (Pol) and some of the other female characters are thin because they're simply minor characters. The author specifically elevates female characters at a time when that was not at all the standard. And you have to lean way too hard into modern obsession with race to have an issue with these books - it's not earth, these aren't "races", these are groups of people specifically created by different gods to be different from each other. They aren't sterotypes, they're actually types, and intended to be that way.
You know you can just enjoy something without having to make excuses for the problems. Pol was powerful, but was also the mother figure.
Books are not written in a vacuum. They are written by people who live on this planet. I enjoyed these books, but even as a child I recognized some of the issues. It was a simplistic view, influenced by the authors upbringing/world view, and limited by his writing ability (hence his wife needing to help, can you imagine the writing if she hadn't).
When you make these very poor excuses you come across as either being afraid for being judged for liking something old before tastes changed, or for preferring those old views today and trying to justify them. Neither is a good look.
@@SilortheBladeWrite a better book. There's a lot of money in it for you if you can pull it off. : )
@@SilortheBlade Pol was powerful, but was also the mother figure, and?
I always wondered why no one ever talks about the Belgariad. Haven't read it in years. Never knew about Eddings history. I like using names from the saga for characters in games and such because they're burned into my brain lol.
People can criticse it for being formulaic, but its a fantastic read and a very good series for new fantasy readers to get into. It has a lot of memorable scenes in it which I remember today.
The Rivan Codex ruined Eddings for me. He explained his formula for writing fantasy stories. After that in all his books I could see his pattern and he ALWAYS followed the same pattern. And he called Tolkien a hack writer……
His worldbuilding is terrible too imo. A cardboard world with no depth at all.
Just like his characters.
He's terry Goodkind without the Objectivism, the BDSM and S.A.
Sparhawk was an interesting character but in those books I feel like he was trying too hard.
I never read the Rivan Codex, but did read all of his major fantasy series, and the cookie cutter template is super obvious. It still works for a lot of them, but not for the Dreamers series (or is it called The Younger Gods), that series was wasted potential and the ending of the last book literally made everything that happened before it in the previous three and half books completely irrelevant.
@ I gave up on Eddings half way through the 2nd Sparhawk trilogy. Even the hero’s didn’t feel the forgettable enemy was much of a threat.
Yeah, Eddings had exactly one story in him and kept telling it over and over, heh.
You failed to mention any ASMR
There are some problems with your thesis. (Not to mention presentation. It’s not “Polgaria” it’s Polgara. If you missed that nuance, just imagine what else you missed?). Heck the “evil” people of the East are the main subject of the next 5 books. Where amazingly we see them treated with a great deal of nuance.
Yeah where by you learn they are not evil, but as result of the evil pushed on them by the Torak.
Which was the WHOLE POINT.
The dialogue in these is still sone of the best in the genre. Snappy, witty, and clear voices for everyone.
I'd quibble about the point of the characters being one dimensional but i get why you say that.
I'd still recommend them to read or listen to (I include The Mallorean too) for fantasy fans.
Not sure I agree. I found his dialog to be overly "folksy" most of the time.
I reread this series every couple of years. I absolutely love it to this day.
To me the Belgariad is literally the most generic of Fantasy (and I mean that in a good way)! ilIt uses all the stereotypes of fantasy and does them very well. It tries to be timeless, which is nearly pulls off, which is why the issue with it really seem so glaring.
I do really love the "prophecy as a sentient agent" concept a lot. I don't recall seeing that in other stories...
Belgariad; Mallorean; Polgara, the Sorceress; Belgarath, the Sorcerer; The Rivan Codex; The Elenium; The Tamuli; The Dreamers; the Redemption of Althalus. Damn fine books and stories, written by terribly flawed people.
By the way, all are within my hands' reach here in my office... and about every 7 to 10 years I reread each, in order. And a small thought about the people are either all good or all bad; the Drasnians are very very gray, aren't they? Sure they work for 'good', but damn some of their ways are.... questionable.
Damn fine stories written by terribly flawed people. Both David and Leigh.... would love to see all done by HBO in a 'Game of Thrones' type series.
Gotta be honest, all the criticisms you listed of the book are barely even criticisms. Ive got no problem with sexism, racism, or genocide in books based in a setting where all of those things were commonplace.
All criticism of women being not current day femenists is also a weak critique
agree
Well said.
A better critique would be the characters are pretty one note. (it was addressed but not in-depth)
The guy's a woke-lite moron.
But no problem with modern GRRM stuff nope lol.
Judge not the past through the lens of the present. Context is everything. Any work can be criticized when current standards are applied. It is an epic tale and is well told. Unfortunately, it is always easier to find fault.
I read the Belgariad soon after it came out, and then the Mallorean as they were being released. They've been a frequent reread for me over the years, a definite comfort read. As far as the abuse convictions, I was unaware of them until a few years ago, and I'm not going to just trash some of my favorite childhood books as a result of them. I hope that the conviction and jail time taught the Eddings their errors, and as far as I know they never had custody of other children. I like to think that the warm and fuzzy family perspective of the Belgariad is a result of the Eddings rethinking their choices, but we'll never know. I respect those that choose not to read their work as a result, but I continue to enjoy it.
You... literally said everything I could've said about the matter. We even read the books at exactly the same time, and learnt about the authors' past at probably around the same time, too. You must be my long lost - and probably evil - twin 😂
Yessss!!!!!!! I have been scouring TH-cam for a retrospective on the Belgariad since I joined the platform. Exits Explained, you beautiful bastard, you've done it again.
Honestly thanks so much, this series was a bit intimating to tackle because I knew I'd get a lot of backlash because I'd have to talk about all the controversy surrounding the series, anyway it's these type of comments that keep me going, nice to find other people into the same nooks and crannies of fantasy!
@exitsexamined I honestly didn't have any idea about the child abuse thing, which is horrifying. I bought the entire set of the Belgariad and Mallorean some months back in a fit of nostalgia. And they were still a great read, but every so often you pause and go, "damn. That's a pretty messed up/archaic world view."
If you were writing a genuine medieval-ish world, it should be an outdated, if you think about it.
Why would they have 21st century values?
I was wondering for awhile while no one really talked about it on Booktube, I guess now I know why...Doesn't scare me off, tho, maybe I'll finally reread them after perusing some of that fanart!
@@exitsexamined I don't know if you know ever read the Bartimaeus cycle by Johnathan Stroud. If Good Omens is Gaiman and Sir Terry's legitimate offspring, this is the secret love child of Philip Pullman and Sir Terry: dark socio-political commentary melded with hilarious hijinks by one of the most endearing POV voices I've found in modern fantasy.
Funny, i just started re-reading these books recently. Currently on the Mallorean. You 100% nail the issues with these books, although I still enjoy reading them. I remember as a kid reading the books and upon finishing the Mallorean I thought "Hold on, the author just wrote the same set of books twice!"
That is pretty much any sequel series though that is using the same characters and setting. Most of the time they rehash the same plot over again with a few upgrades or changes. The fundamentals of these stories essentially keep the plots pretty simple and the ability to really create another completely different story with the exact same characters somewhat limited. Star wars did the same thing even with a mostly new cast and new directors with the 3 newish trilogy movies.
Terry Brooks wrote a ton of the Shannara stories, many of them separate trilogies or sets, with essentially the same stories recycled, just with the previous books main protagonists relatives in the next generation.
Buffy the vampire slayer is pretty much a bunch of seasons of her doing basically the same thing over and over again with slightly different demons or monsters, etc.
He did the same story (essentially) again, with the Elenium and Tamuli, which are basically a rehash of the Belgariad and Malloreon respectively...
That said, I preferred the Elenium and Tamuli, as the characters were better fleshed out IMO
That was point out as part of the prophecy, they were stuck in a sort of time loop. The point was to brake out of it.
(Spoiler alert) It is mentioned at several points in The Mallorean that each confrontation between the Child of Light and the Child of Dark, the focal figures of the respective prophecies, were preceded by events and that these events were repetitions of previous events before previous confrontations. Belgarath and Garion speculated that the similarities of the proceeding events and the confrontations themselves were because of the catalysing event (the premature supernova of a sun that destroyed an entire galaxy) had essentially derailed the destiny of that universe, splitting the prophecy into two, Light and Dark, Progress and Stagnation, Growth and Entropy. Because the destiny of the universe was split, events and history were essentially put on a tightly controlled loop that allowed the two opposing prophecies to essentially fight it out to the death without destroying the universe in the conflict, with the victor deciding the true course of destiny in that universe.
@@anthonytaylor1723 hardly a spoiler at this point in time. But to everyone saying it, i'm not saying it isn't made clear from the books about the cyclic nature of things in the books. That's well understood. Its the fact he actually had the balls to actually write the books all over again and then sell them. It would be like if Robert Jordan (RIP) had lived on and basically rewrote the Wheel of Time books in a different cycle. Still, i bet it would have sold like hotcakes. :D
Never got into the Belgariad. I was an avid Elenium reader as a teen, and it still has strong emotional moments for me: Kalten, Flute. And some great gags - Ulath's technique for task sharing, the undead guardians of Azash's temple.
But even as a teen, Ehlana's obsession with Sparhawk, some level of misogyny, the racialised descriptions of people (Styrics included) and the hypermature child characters bothered me somewhat. It's a more challenging reread as an adult.
I reread it a while ago, and there's literally a line in (I think) the first book where Sephrenia describes a specific way of thinking, and explains "it's a racial trait".
I reeled back a bit when I got to that line.
I still think the undead guardians and their lousy programming is hilarious, and the chemistry between Sparhawk and Kalten is fantastic - the "two bros, chillin' on a secret quest, five feet apart 'cause they're not gay!" energy is palpable. Plus the two mafia bosses (Stragen and Platime) were excellent.
The romance was fuckin' weird though. I've never liked the whole "one person knew the other when they were a child, and now they're an item" trope.
@@18Hongo Yeah, so many contrasting great (some clever worldbuilding ideas and twists) and creepy things (Elhana and Sparhawk, Danae wanting to marry Talen). The "racial trait" thing is brushed away by Eddings as worldbuilding (worshippers get to think/behave like their chosen gods, hence Annias's increasing loss of subtlety and smarts over the course of the books) but it's such a slippery slope...
@markwinnington1426 Yeah... I know it was a different time, but the language really doesn't hit the ear right these days, does it? If I remember correctly, Talen was 10 and Flute was 4, so there was an opportunity to play that off as a little girl playing, but then Flute was also a goddess, and thus ancient and immortal, and Eddings managed to take the worst possible route with it.
Styrics are kind of a special case, given that they're coded as that world's version of Jews, and thus subjected to bigotry by their Elene neighbors in much the same way that Jews in our world were subjected to vicious pogroms in medieval Europe (and, of course, the Holocaust in the 20th Century). They're supposed to be seen sympathetically because of this persecution, and indeed, the heroes do see them that way, as they're among the minority of Elenes who don't openly act on any prejudices they might be harboring.
This, of course, gets flipped on its head when the heroes visit Sarsos, a Styric haven on the Tamul continent, in the second series. One of the protagonists (I think it was Sparhawk himself) starts getting triggered that Styrics "have the nerve," as it were, to live happy lives free of any fear of persecution, rather than having to present as "smol beans uwu" in order to "earn" the sympathy of the Church Knights, ultimately getting called out for it (rightfully so) by one of the other characters.
@@18Hongo Regarding your issue with a 'child female' falling in love with and plotting to 'get' their man, I have two people for you to consider - Reed Richards and Sue Storm.
It's an easy read and great for a young person to leap into the Fantasy genre without excessive baggage.
Is it written well? it's simple and clear. Doesn't have many surprises, but it handles certain tropes with a little extra finesse.
It's harmless and I have recommended this series to any new person wanting to get into fantasy.
It ages very well.
Gotta say, while Belgareth and others are possibly THE most powerful wizards I've ever read in Fantasy lit...it's really Silk that most impressed me in terms of capabilities! Excepting MAYBE Locke Lamora, he's probably THE Gold Standard of a Fantasy Thief! Then again, I've not read *everything*...Is there any rival to that King of Thieves throne?
Tongue-in-cheek epic fantasy.
That's the high-concept premise of the Belgariad.
I was introduced to the Belgariad when I was 16. I worked at B. Dalton and had been reading scifi and fantasy for many years. I’d read Dune, some Tolkien, McCaffrey,Asimov, Heinlein, Bradbury etc. I was going on my lunch break and said to my manager “Hey just read Shannara, you got any suggestions?” He handed me Pawn of Prophecy and I was hooked. I blew through the first 4 then only had to wait a few months for Enchanter’s Endgame. I did see some of the problems even then, particularly how women are treated. But looking back 51 years I can see how difficult it was to see some of it since that was the climate of the time. Also I was living in Alabama at the time. Just yesterday I was tutoring my 16 yr old nephew on the Civil War, particularly Native American involvement. He just doesn’t understand and I find it hard to explain why there was such racial hatred then. I finally told him that is one of his generation’s strengths. I grew out of my upbringing after I went out into the wider world, but having lived it, it is difficult to reconcile. I did not find out about the Eddings’ past until long after I’d read most of their books. I was actually thrilled to see Leigh added as an author later as I had started actively seeking out women writer’s of fantasy & scifi in my teens. I revisit The Belgariad and Mallorean about once a decade. As the series was coming out I can now see that it seemed to coincide with times in my life I most needed comfort reads. Belgariad while I was tackling my first real job and finishing high school. The Mallorean while in the Army and stationed in Korea, far from home. The 3 additional books as I’m navigating college, marriage and adulting (still haven’t got the hang of adulting). They were easy comfortable reads exactly when I needed them. Revisiting them is like snuggling up with a soft warm blanket and a cup of tea. Yes, I struggle with the Eddings past as I do Rowling, Asimov, Orson Scott Card and others. But I’d already read all of them by the time their problems came out so I can’t forget them. I also know the horrible views I was taught and held as a child and teenager, yet by the time I’m leaving the Army at 22 and into college I completely realigned my thinking. I recently told my nephew, “We can’t help how we are raised. We can only try to grow and change as we learn and experience new things.”
Beautiful summary...Wait, what did Asimov do?? I don't think i want to know...I know it's not fashionable or maybe even ethical, but more and more, I find myself invoking "Separating the Art from the Artist", because it seems that Artists are actually only human, therefore very flawed and often messed up; quite probably every artist of the past who is dead and gone said, believed or did something that would get them cancelled today, and frankly, if we can't allow ourselves to be entertained by anyone who is less than Perfect, then we're just going to have to entertain ourselves with shadow puppets or something! Your story shows very well how Life is complex, leads us to strange places and is rarely just "black and white"...I dunno, but thanks for your memories!
Rowling is guilty only of having a sensible take on gender delusions. A man is a man and a women is a women. End of fucking story. It is completely sick how nutcases are trying to cancel her for sticking up for abused women. Biological men absolutely do not belong in women's shelters and anyone who thinks she is wrong is a vile degenerate.
I re-read them every few years, as well, and I know exactly what you mean about them being comfort reading. You know the good guys are gonna win, you know everything will be all right, and you just tag along and enjoy the ride like you're going on a long trip among people you consider family
I've read that series several times since I first discovered it back in the 80s, and my wife and kids have also read them, they never get old, and each time it's like revisiting old friends, the characters are great.
I loved the Belgariad, read it several times.
I was 16 when The Belgariad came out, and I loved it at the time. However, it’s definitely a product of its era. When I tried to revisit it more recently, I found it difficult to get through the first few chapters. You have to remember that the fantasy genre in the 70s and early 80s had been somewhat stagnant, with only a few standout authors keeping it alive. The late 70s and 80s marked the beginning of a renaissance in fantasy literature, as authors like Terry Brooks, Raymond E. Feist, and David Eddings took risks that paved the way for a boom in the genre.
Y'know, it's interesting. I was really charmed by the opening bits of Pawn of Prophecy, and the hazy dream-like description of Garion's youth. Ah well... the mileage does vary!
The ultimate introduction to fantasy distilled into a book series. These books may be considered lightweight, but I would bet this series got as many into fantasy as Tolkein. A fun breezy read.
Totally agree! Do you other similar breezy fantasy reads? Might want to cover more on the channel when I need a break!
Not OP, but Garth Nix's Seventh Tower series is breezy fun with some interesting magic and worldbuilding
@@exitsexaminednot fantasy, but Enders game and the rest of the 18 or so books in that series could make a great video 😊
@@exitsexaminedterry brooks sword of shannara series was another basic fantasy book that grew better as it went.
@@Mike_W78 This would be my pick! Personally, I felt it was at its best with the second book (Elfstones), tho, and I tapped out a few books after that...
I first read this series in the mid-eighties, and it's as entertaining today as it was all those years ago.
All four of his series are some of my favorite books. I love them don't really care for letting real world issues as a reason to not love them. If we do that with all our works of literature, art, and music we'll always find reasons to discard all of it.
I still read the Belgariad and the Mallorean every year since I first discovered Eddings' works while deployed to Desert Storm. I started with the Diamond Throne and love all his series.
Ageless. Read it at least 7 times since I've discovered it 30+ years ago. I miss Aunt Pol and Mister Wolf terribly. When men were men and women were women.
I remember the books very fondly and I think they have some interesting ideas, as well as some parts that did not age so well, but after learning that Eddings had tortured and abused his foster children, I cannot bring myself for a re-read.
Love love love these books. I even named my daughter after one of the characters.
Oh so cool! Which one? I would lose it if I met someone named ce nedra haha
Same here. I’ve read those books at least 7 or 8 times. I absolutely love them.
We named our daughter after a character in Dragon Lance 🎉 she's grown now and has never gotten around to reading the series, but she loves books and loves her name so I take it as a win ❤️
@@exitsexamined Liselle. Thank you for asking. 😊
Art should be judged on it's own merit, not the deeds of the author(s). There is a valid argument to not give the author money if they are a bad person, but once they are dead, the argument dies with them. To each their own, but I think hating the Eddings' work purely because of their crimes is, let's say, not very reasonable.
I really wanna involve spoilers, but that's against the rules. But I CAN give my two favorite quotes ......
'Does bouncing count?'
And, elsewhere.....
'You left his foot sticking out.'
Hrm..... it occurs that both lines were uttered by Silk
The sad thing is that I can recall exactly where those two quotes are. 😂😂😂
I've read the Belgariad ,Mallorian, Belgarath and Polgara also the Elenium and the Tamuli. All are fantastic reading. Eddings is one of the masters of the fantasy genre.
As one of the small group of dedicated fans, I am super happy and thankful that no one has tried to do any movies, shows or games. I love the original works. And considering how modern creators are screwing up classic fantasy ( Shannara, Sword of Truth, RoP and Amazon's WoT for example), yeah ... very happy that no one will touch it.
I feel this. There was a time when getting an adaptation was a holy grail, but these days I actually understand Eddings anti-adaptation attitude. To be honest I don't even like what's happened with Middle-earth over the years. Jackson's movies were already a mixed bag but the games based on them feel like fanfiction, and then there's Amazon's Rings of Power...
Look what happened with the Shannara series.......
@@geofftottenperthcoys9944The bad thing about the Shannarra tv series is Brooks was involved heavily in that.
@@raycooper8024 Oh, did not know that.
I thought the Shannara show was okay, but then, I'd never read the books. Sword of Truth sucked because those books suck. I actually like the Wheel of Time adaption, in some ways, it's going to be an improvement over the slower books, because it cuts out a lot of the fat and irrelevant side characters and focuses the story in a way that Jordan lost around books 8-10 ("The Slog").
Nice analysis. I ran into the books on my way home from a scout Jamboree, in the 80s. Swallowed the first 2 I bought at a country town newsagency on the trip back, and over time, read all the Eddings' works. I only recently discovered the controversy, and disappointing as it was, I still was able to come back to the books recently as a brief retreat into a simpler time.
I first got into fantasy in the late 70s, so it's no surprise these were some of my favorite books. My 40 yo copies are still on my shelves. And yet...I tried to reread them a few years ago and just couldn't. The writing seemed rather juvenile and the pacing too slow for present me. It also really made me aware of how much fantasy (and I) changed over the decades. Like, they weren't bad books, but they'd never make it on to my shelf of favorites today, either. It made me sad.
Same era for me. I saw the Rankin/Bass animated special of The Hobbit in 1977 and immediately wanted to read the book, which led to a lifelong interest. Honestly, this along with so much of what I read in that era including authors like Terry Brooks, Dennis L. McKiernan (who was doing the most blatant copy of Tolkien), and Weis and Hickman just do not hold up on a modern re-read.
Same here, I managed to finish the first book of the Game of thrones... The people who do horrible things seem to win. Why bother? The real world is like that way too much. While I like a bit of grimdark now and then, I also want fantasy where (unlike reality) Good actually prevails.
In addition to the writing and the characters, I was fascinated by the maps. They were so detailed. I have yet to find another fantasy series with as detailed of maps.
Eddings' brilliance was how he wrote the connecting scenes. Where not much plot was happens, but you have the characters interacting. For me, those travel scenes and down time scenes were so entertaining.
The Malloreon is the sequel and better because it elevates the character dynamics and went beyond the basic pseudo-Tolkien plot. The other stuff doesn’t change.
I have always recommended David Eddings and The Belgariad to people who are interested in starting getting into fantasy. I'm honest, and tell people that it's a bit dated, and kind of basic, but it's straight forward, easy to follow the plot lines, and can be read in a weekend.
I'll always love the series because it's what got me into fantasy novels while in elementary school.
I read the elenium and the tamuli trilogies by David Eddings back in the 90s. I enjoyed them back then. Ive thought about rebuying the elenium trilogy again cause i remember particularly digging that one over the tamuli trilogy. I believe I tried reading the mallorean series but couldn't get into it.
So, you have a young boy, whose parents were killed by a powerful, evil sorcerer. He is unaware of his own power until tutored by a powerful good sorcerer. He goes through many challenges and eventually confronts and defeats his parents' killer.
Sounds familiar - but I'm sure JK never read The Belgariad.
Thumbnail is from the cover of Magician: Apprentice. Love that book, one of my favorites.
It's a classic!
Deserves its own video!
Yeah! One of the thumbnail options is, but I thought it captured the same vibe as mr wolf and garian, I'm currently AB testing a couple thumbnail options though! But actually speaking of that I really should cover Magician: Apprentice sometime..
@@exitsexamined ah i see. You definitely should it is a great series. Love the videos
@@exitsexamined I was wondering what was happening the Riftworld image, especially when I saw the 3rd timestamp say this was "the World of Conan"! hehe.
I ADORED the Belgariad! I reread it several times. I read a lot of The Black Company too. I also loved the Lloyd Alexander series Taran Wanderer. I'm 61, still love fantasy.
Confusion to the Murgos!
I find the Chronicles of Prydain hold up a lot better for me than the Belgariad does. Lloyd Alexander wrote some dark, dark stuff, but the warmth and growth of the characters prevented the stories from being grim and nihilistic.
There were also the Belgarath and Polgara standalone novels, but by that point the formula was getting VERY repetitive. As in, the books were mostly just rehashes of stories and events already told.
The Elenium and Tamuli books were also decent, but the fingerprints of the formula were also evident there. Different enough to be worth a read. And then there was the Redemption of Althalus, which has the benefit of wrapping everything up in a single volume and is set it its own unique world and setting.
But that's THE formula. For pretty much every piece of fiction. Meet hero. Hero goes on quest, making friends and mistakes along the way. Eventually hero meets bad guy. They have confrontation, hero wins. Either wrap it up, or set up for the next book.
It's not always a literally traveling quest. Sometimes it's to learn something, or make something and no one actually goes anywhere.
But I'd have a real hard time coming up with a book that doesn't fit the formula.
@@ThisIsATireFire The difference with Eddings is he explicitly says (in The Rivan Codex? can't recall exactly) that he's being deliberately formulaic, that the series is an experiment in genre fiction.
I can't really argue with your description, but to paraphrase, "Meet hero. Stuff happens, Final thing happens." It's not surprising that most things fit that template; it's hard to come up with a plot that does NOT meet that template. It covers most of the Seven Basic Plots - but not all of them. Eddings goes into a LOT more detail on the formula he uses.
Aaaah the first bookseries i ever re-read as a young teen (3-5isch years later) and alot of your remarks hit me even then. But boy oh boy did i like it the first time. Oh and this was the first of your vids i ever was recomendes sure hope the rest are as good
a problem with an analysis like this is that it's viewing sex and race issues through a modern lens.
WHY WOULD A MEDIEVAL SOCIETY VIEW THE WORLD THROUGH A MODERN LENS?!?
do you think real medieval peasants would have thought much differently than as portrayed by eddings? are the views presented an extension of eddings himself or are they an attempt at extrapolating the worldview of people living in this setting?
imagine a story set in real medieval england. if the characters are not explicitly and constantly racist and sexist as ue would consider it, it would be inaccurate.
it actually bugs the shit out of me when period pieces have radically revisionist morals and attitudes that DISTORT what it was actually like to appease modern sensibilities. screw that. portrayals ought to be authentic and damn our morality.
Good observation.
It's a good point but have you read the belgariad? I'm not saying that the books should fundamentally change the society of the series and remove it from a historical setting and what that would look like. The problem is that the way he writes woman perspective (and many other characters) is incredibly one dimensional. It's just leaves a bad taste and if you give the series a reread I think you'll really quickly see what I mean! Also fantasy is a different world with different rules, Polgara is one of the most powerful people in this universe! But love discussion in any form and thanks for watching the vid!
I imagine a story set in medieval England wouldn't involve Fenlings or fucking Dragons. That wouldn't be historically accurate.
A work of fantasy set in a fictional setting is not historical, so there can be no historical accuracy. This is not a story set it real medieval England, so there is no need for the characters to adhere to historically accurate actions and beliefs of that place during that time.
Furthermore, it seems that you're suggesting that the _characters_ should be sexist and racist in order to be believable, but what's problematic here is the sexism and racism of the _writer_ in their portrayal of the world and the characters.
I actually agree with you that it's frustrating when period pieces ignore actual problematic issues by pretending they weren't there. But I don't think works of fantasy in fictional settings count as period pieces.
Progressive moralizing is annoying. Seems the world is coming around to that realization as well. Also, the people claiming that 'because dragons are in it, it doesn't need to be realistic' are either intentionally missing the point, or not getting it. Game of Thrones had dragons of it, but it was very grounded and realistic for a fantasy setting. Shrek, also a fantasy setting with dragons and fantasy-stuff, is not realistic or grounded. There's degrees of 'realism' in a setting.
Considering the books were popular in Japan, I have the theory that C'Nedra actually serves as an inspiration for legions of spoiled red haired tsundere princesses in Fantasy and other genres.
Lol, oh that's funny!
Been thinking of rereading these books. It's been decades and I recall really liking them, though a lot of this does sound very familiar. Interesting to find a video about the series, it seems rare for anyone to talk about it nowadays.
I think your description of the Belgariad as a "gateway" drug to fantasy is very apt. I randomly picked up the book at my high school library back when I was a freshman or sophomore and I was instantly hooked. The Malloreon kind of ruined the series for me, since at the time, I felt it was rather repetitive of the original series and I felt that there was little character development. Also after a while I discovered other super talented fantasy, horror and sci fi authors (Dan Simmons, Robert Jordan, etc) that made this series seem childish in comparison. With all that said, I'm still grateful to this series for getting me into the speculative fiction band wagon.
The funniest I see in the discourse around any of the creative arts is how much people talk about artist pouring their heart and soul into their works and how much they echo the lived experience of the creator right up until the moment that something unpleasant comes out about that creator at which point the art and the artist no longer have any relationship whatsoever.
That's very true, but people are not one dimensional. Artists can pour their heart and soul into a work without revealing all of themselves, or even understanding themselves. Then there is the influence of their imagination.
Wagner produced some excellent music whilst being a nasty piece of work personally. He kept that facet of himself out of his music.
Never meet your heroes, you won't like them.
Timeless. I have read it four or five times and listened to the audio version as many times. It has some of the best drawn and most fun characters of any fantasy, with fun interaction and dialogue. The basic plot arc is masterful. It has some issues, which get worse in the Mallorean, but it's still glorious. I could not care less if it portrays race in a way that is not consistent with modern progressive thinking.
One surprising bit of legacy from these books was a (possible) reference in the Netflix fantasy series "The Dragon Prince". There's a teenage enchantress with dark hair who winds up with a white streak in it; her journey is very different to Polgara's, but when I saw the character with her white lock of hair, Pol was the first thing that came to mind.
Nah, the white lock of hair being associated with witches has a really long history. If you dig through pop culture it's associated with a ton of, usually female, often evil, characters. But being modeled on Pol wouldn't be the worst thing.
@@cynicalbliss Ugh, just had an unpleasant thought. Does Tulsi Gabbard model her hair on Polgaras ?
@@Para2normal when I was watching the 2019-2020 Democratic debates, that's literally the first thing I thought when I saw Tulsi Gabbard.
I loved this series so much, I named my oldest daughter after one of the characters. Adara Rose
Ooooft, you had to really try to get physical abuse charges in 70's
We're talking an era where striking with a closed hand - totally fine
Belt, rod,cane,switch ect - okay as long as marks faded within a week
Not only your parents but teachers/priests/anyone you gave parental authority too could do the same.
Yeah, as I recall, it was really heinous, like, keeping a kid in a cage heinous.
I don't know how old you are, but I was around during the 70s, and I can assure you that the vast majority of parents loved their children, and did not constantly beat them. I recall the threat of a spanking as being more a deterrent factor than something that parents were eagerly awaiting to do.
@@hoi-polloi1863 I don't think the rate of child abuse is any higher or lower in the 70s than it is today, it's just that the law took it less seriously than it does today, unless it was a really heinous case.
How nostalgic. I remember how these, and later 'The Malloreon' came out her just before Christmas. I started reading the newest novel on the train on my way to my granny's place for the Holiday and break. Once I finished the new one, I reread the series from start. It's been now decades since that, but I still have the books. Maybe I should revisit my youth this year....
I read these when I was a kid too. ‘Breezy’ is the word I’d use. Most of the cringier stuff, I think, kind of flies under the radar because of how ‘arch’ the characters and situations are-almost to the point of genre absurdity. In fact, I heard and believed for a long time that the Belgariad was originally written to MOCK other fantasy stories of its type-Garion is a moron, Belgarath is a drunken lecher, with all of the ‘people defined by their culture and heritage’ stuff jacked up to 11.
I feel like the "mockery" interpretation is probably extremely generous to Eddings. I could buy it if any of his other writing displayed an ability to break that mold but I'm not aware of any which does.
@fuzzzone Fair. 'Redemption of Althalus' was terrible. But as I said, that was simply an explanation which made sense at the time, and somewhat connects with statements made in the Rivan Codex.
CeNedra was the princess. Tolnedra was the country.
Remember, it was co-authored by his wife Leigh Eddings. Who is POLGARA....
I was first introduced to Pawn of Prophecy in high school by my school librarian in the naughties. I enjoyed it so much I nicked my mothers copies to find out what happened next. I loved the banter between the characters, how they teased one another, I loved the world building and most especially how easy it was to just pick up a book and get lost in the story.
I'd read The Lord of the Rings before being introduced to The Belgariad and I had struggled with it, despite enjoying the story of the fellowship's efforts to destroy the one ring. The main reason being for my struggle to enjoy Tolkiens work was, for the most part, because I was 10-11 when I started reading them and Tolkien had a nasty tendency to drag out his descriptions of the world you travel through, which as a preteen bored me to tears and made me want to skip whole pages and chapters just to get to some dialogue or action that would pull me back into the story. This is an issue I never had with The Belgariad. Eddings kept the narrative flowing and held my interest, even in the downbeats of the story where the characters are just travelling along with nothing really happening plot wise.
As an adult, I can see a fair few problematic points in The Belgariad and The Mallorean, particularly in the generalised view of the various races being defined by one specific trait, as well as the over emphasis of gender roles. I do have a particular problem with the character Barak as much of what he says and does, especially in the first couple of books, is honestly not acceptable by todays standards, with his advocating wholesale genocide, his propensity to use violence to solve his problems and most especially with how he interacts with his wife, Merel, in the first book. There is a paragraph in Pawn of Prophecy where Merel outright states that Barak forced himself upon her, despite her protestations, and it is never addressed or acknowledged beyond a rather pointed comment by Polgara at the end of Queen of Sorcery when she tells him that he is going to have a son as a result of that particular event.
That being said, it did not detract too much from my enjoyment of the story when I reread them as an adult. The world, for all its faults, was richly imagined, most of the characters were still fun to follow and the banter between them was still very entertaining.
Oh I've been waiting for this one! Even as a teen I found Eddings' world and characters wanting, especially coming to the series after reading Prydain. And his portrayal of women always rubbed me wrong, tbh Ce'nedra was one of my favourite characters *because* she was spoilt, vain, and had a temper! Her arc was one of the best of both series, and her character growth was a breath of fresh air within the narrative. I also really liked Silk, and eventually Velvet.
Prydain passed me by somehow. Would you recommend it now? Is it still good?
@@rungus24 I think by and large it is still good. It's aimed at the young adult market, but it's got that high fantasy feel that makes it easily accessible to adults too.
The portrayal of female characters in the story is varied, but overall pretty good, I think.
Honestly, as much as I love The Belgariad, the portrayal of women in the series is a consistent (and valid) criticism any time I hear it discussed.
I'll certainly give Eddings a point for not just sticking a "Damsel in distress" trope in there, but he definitely could have been a bit less condescending when he wrote Ce'Nedra. I did rather like Lelldorin and Mandorallen; the idea of two enemies-turned-friends who are both devastatingly well-meaning and complete idiots was rather a lot of fun.
My favorite Ce'Nedra moment was when she gave a very good argument (in context, at least) for Boob Armor and why she *needed* it! Always came back to me whenever I'd hear complaints about that on the internet later in life...😅
@rungus24
I read Prydain when I was 10 and just after reading Narnia. It is a children's book I loved it at the time but haven't reread it.
At least the Eddings paid a debt to society for their crimes against children, unlike Marion Zimmer Bradley.
I enjoyed these books quite a bit. The criminal convictions? I don't really care, as it isn't really relevant.
I think there is something to be said for separating the author from his work, but I also can understand how it colors peoples opinions of it. It's tricky!
I think there is some minor nobility in refusing to partake in something enjoyable so as to not finance people or companies you think are negative in some way. But, you know, Eddings is dead. We ain’t financing him.
@@89Dienekes Even if he was still alive, this was a crime he already did time for before the series was published, and he wouldn't be adopting children ever again, making it rather different from an Orson Card situation. Maybe people say "that's a toxic person I don't want telling me stories", but I don't think we can be sure on that, much easier to judge the story itself.
I remember loving this series and hanging out for the next book. That is all that matters and is of importance. Woke was something you were after you in the morning after the alarm went off. It really, really still should be that way, the world would be a much better place.
An audiobook isn't supposed to be an adaptation at all. It is supposed to be just people reading the book.
Not necessarily. Some have sound effects and multiple actors. They're closer to radio dramas. Some are abridged for time. Changing art from one media to another is by definition an adaptation.
@@null6634i enjoy Rrafing and Audiobooks
Really enjoyed this but as someone who was devouring fantasy novels avidly in the 80s I'd like to point out that there was loads before and after Eddings. It's true that fantasy struggled to set the box office on fire back then but the book market was full and varied
Big, huge, fan of these as they arrived in the 80s. Teen me did not spot anything problematic at the time, loved em. Stupidly sold the books for beer money in my early 20s, been busy reacquiring then in the same editions. Missing book 2....
An ad in a fantasy-themed magazine for Polgara the Sorceress is what got me into the Eddings books, and I think I ended up reading everything fantasy that they ever wrote. My favorite was one of the later series, I can't recall the name offhand but the main character guy was a paladin for a religion that was basically Christianity with the serial numbers filed off, and yet one of his companions turned out to be a goddess from another pantheon, who was an eternal child. I remember finding that idea very fascinating. Oh, and the macguffin was heavily inspired by Norse mythology as well. It was a fascinating pair of series.
That would be the Ellinium and the Tamuli...loved them too...but I preferred The Redemption of Althalus which was a stand-alone
80’ years are One of the best decade ever for fantasy for High and dark;)
Bellaria and mallorean are very epics;)
I read this the first time in the mid-80s; again in the 90s. And I've got the 2 volume set on my bookshelf. So, fine, I'll read it again. And I'll still enjoy the hell out of it!
Grimdark seems to me to be the end point of a reaction against Eddings and the other Tolkien impersonators of that era. Both leave me cold.
There are plenty of high fantasy stories out there to fill the void. Those grimdark stories are just one of many dark fantasy stories where good and evil aren't easily defined and good doesn't always win.
I enjoy both. I can see why people who want to escape into a fantasy world don't want to read stories that are more similar to real life, where people are shades of gray and good and evil aren't protagonists and antagonists looking to save/destroy the day.
I love both. Many of these darker fantasy stories like a song of ice and fire and Steven Erickson's books, Karen mills works, brent weeks works,etc are very well written and extremely compelling because of the gritty realism involved.
I think this analysis misses a crucial point: this story is told exclusively from the point of view of the main character Garion. While I'm not suggesting that the author was complex enough to make this the main focus of his storytelling, but Belgarath himself admits to having severe prejudices against Angaraks, which was something that was prevalent on both sides. Angaraks were just as mistrustful of Westerners as the Alorns were mistrustful of them. It wasn't until the Mallorean that we got a peek behind the curtains of Angarak society, so it makes logical sense that we'd get a one sided view of their culture. The fact that these explicit statements were included in the story says to me that Eddings was at least aware of the points made here and wasn't really bothered by them because there was a certain amount of justification for this attitude in a world that mimics our own history, which was clearly steeped in prejudice.
As far as the author himself, we have a bad tendency to equate the man with the story, and the problem with that is that the story itself should always be judged completely separately from the person who wrote it when it comes to morality. The story itself is either good or bad, and the morals included aren't diminished just because the author doesn't live up to them. A story is something we see from our own point of view, and every story is up to a certain amount of interpretation. My vision of what the characters and scenes look like will differ vastly from someone with a different background from my own.
Magician's Gambit was the first novel i read as a kid. stole it off my mom's bedroom shelf. it was the summer break after first grade i think and i was obsessed with X-Men on Saturday mornings. I thought the book was about that Gambit. i remember being super confused and finally having to ask my mom why they were talking about things that didn't happen yet. she got me Pawn of Prophecy off the same shelf in her room and i went through the whole series.
i ended up liking The Elenium more than The Belgaraid though. i haven't revisited those books since elementary school though. not sure i want to. too many fond memories have been ruined by revisiting them over the years.
Nice video and analysis! A few thoughts...
* The "national character inspired by gods" business I thought was actually interesting as worldbuilding. Why shouldn't the gods shape their guys?
* That whole setup actually made the Malloreon more interesting, as we got to see the more domestic side of Murgos etc.
* The focus of the women on marriage/kids/etc is there, but do recall that our own culture has changed a lot in the past few decades. It would have been even more jarring to me at least if Cenedra had loudly insisted she wanted to work in an office... ;D
* I was shocked speechless about the criminal activities of the Eddingses. Still can't wrap my head around that.
* There are times when I think Polgara needs to get her attitude adjusted with a brick. She's so tender to Durnik after he kills his first foe, but when Garion freaks out over his first killing in battle, she tells him to suck it up.
* I always enjoyed how the Prophecy has a personality of its own, and seems to go out of its way to annoy Belgarath!
It's all about The Chronicles of Prydain and Red wall.
Loved Taran Wanderer!
Chronicles of Prydain hold up amazingly well for me. I loved it as a 9/10 year old, still love it as a 45 year old. The Redwall series got repetitive after a while, but Redwall, Mossflower, Mattimeo, and Mariel of Redwall are all terrific.
TLDR: “Old” book series doesn’t meet contemporary mores = bad. Authors ran into legal troubles = double-bad. If you still like now, that’s bad too.
They’re still great books, but the exposition/critique here may help explain why the series hasn’t become a family friendly version of Game of Thrones. Such a production - if true to the source- would be great!
23:00: With Eddings dead he doesn't get to call the shots at this point. I guess whoever is in charge of his estate didn't care to hold to those wishes. His brother maybe? Would be kind of ironic if it was those two kids they briefly adopted. Or possibly sweet depending on how that went down.
27:00: Not just allegations. They pled guilty and were sentenced. Now maybe they were framed or something, I haven't looked into it, but I don't think allegations is the right word.
Thank you. Both of those relevant points seem to be missed by the narrator.
@@RecklessFables As is the fact that on his death, several million $ were left to a charity for helping kids after that sort of treatment and to a school. They did their time, didn't re-offend then tried to help others.
I loved all of the David Eddings books. Both the Belgariad, The Elenium and the Tamuli. I tried rereading the Lensman series of books and failed miserably. It was so bad I had to think how did I believe it was so good when I originally read it in the 1970s. This video has made me think what about the history of the Thomas Covenant 'The White Gold Wielder' series of books. Perhaps a subject for another video.