Richard Schwartz - IFS, Psychedelic Experiences without Drugs, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ม.ค. 2021
- Richard Schwartz - IFS, Psychedelic Experiences without Drugs, and Finding Inner Peace for Our Many Parts | Brought to you by Helix Sleep (helixsleep.com/tim), LinkedIn Jobs ( / tim , Athletic Greens (athleticgreens.com/tim).
Show Notes: tim.blog/2021/01/14/richard-s...
Richard Schwartz is on the faculty of the department of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.
He began his career as a family therapist and an academic at the University of Illinois at Chicago, where he discovered that family therapy alone did not achieve full symptom relief. In asking patients why, he learned that they were plagued by what they called “parts.” These patients became his teachers as they described how their parts formed networks of inner relationships that resembled the families he had been working with. He also found that as they focused on and, thereby, separated from their parts, they would shift into a state characterized by qualities like curiosity, calm, confidence, and compassion. He called that inner essence the Self and was amazed to find it even in severely diagnosed and traumatized patients. From these explorations, the Internal Family Systems (IFS) model was born in the early 1980s.
IFS is now evidence based and has become a widely used form of psychotherapy, particularly with trauma. It provides a non-pathologizing, optimistic, and empowering perspective and a practical and effective set of techniques for working with individuals, couples, families, and-more recently-corporations and classrooms.
Please enjoy!
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About Tim Ferriss:
Tim Ferriss is one of Fast Company’s “Most Innovative Business People” and an early-stage tech investor/advisor in Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Shopify, Duolingo, Alibaba, and 50+ other companies. He is also the author of five #1 New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestsellers: The 4-Hour Workweek, The 4-Hour Body, The 4-Hour Chef, Tools of Titans and Tribe of Mentors. The Observer and other media have named him “the Oprah of audio” due to the influence of his podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show, which has exceeded 500 million downloads and been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three years running.
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I went back to being a baby crying in the crib…. And I cried and screamed for someone to come to me and no one came.. so the Me now as a 65 year old woman…I picked her up from the crib and cried with her .. and rocked her and myself until we no longer cried.. I told her I loved her and to stay with me as I will love her and take care of her… this was very powerful for me !
Wow. Unfortunately, a lot of parents were told to let children "cry it out" as a way to train their children. I'm glad you have found a way to contact that part.
Wow how did you go back so far??
@@jimwetro4617 it just happened organically… I don’t know how to explain it any other way… it was incredibly powerful !!!
IFS has been a game-changer for me. I feel almost silly every time I try to describe it but the moment I started practicing it with a licensed therapist the doors opened up.
I first found Self reading The Untethered Soul. Everything changed. So grateful to find IFS!
Thank you so much I bought 2 of his books today I feel it is the beginning of a new way towards healing for me 🙏
Brilliant work - thanks for modelling this Tim! Re: Suicidal Ideation and My Process with Parts:
1) I ask: "Why do you want to die?" I sit down and make a list of all the reasons I hear in response.
2) I validate: "Makes sense to me. These are all very painful, frustrating problems that would make anyone want to die. I get it. I'm on board with dying if we can't come up with any basis for living."
3) I ask: "Is everyone on board with dying? Does anyone want to live?" I listen and note. So far there has always been a part that wants to live.
4) I say to the part that wants to live: "This part wants to die. They want to die for all of these reasons (I read the list). Are any of you that want to live willing to do anything differently so that the part that wants to die would be willing to hang around for another year?"
5) I then listen to the response. I tell the parts that want to live: "You are going to have to come up with some answer to the frustrations and pain of this part and secure a majority vote to live or we will be committing suicide.
6) I then lobby for some radical change: "Look, you may hate rejection. Doing this might fail. However, we are going to die if we do nothing because large portions of the voting block are in more pain than well-being and have no particular reason to live. You have to give them specific commitments this year. I will ask them to hang on for another year but I agree with them: If life is this painful and pointless and going nowhere why not pull the plug and explore consciousness somewhere else - hopefully a lot better than here."
7) I then negotiate five to ten major changes from the perspective of the part that wants to die: "If we got on this immediately and made all these changes as our highest priority would you agree to live for another year? If they don't work out or the part that wants to live is too lazy to follow through then we can commit suicide next year. How's that for you?"
This has made suicidal times some of the most productive, transformative and valuable parts of my life. The reason is that the parts who want to die generally have better ideas and visions for my life than the parts that are blocking those ideas out of fear and in order to fit in and make others happy. When this is brought up by the parts that don't want to change I give them a wake up call: "Do you really think that if we are dead all these people who are trying to push us into doing what they want are going to be better off? They get nothing from us at all if we are dead and fitting in is so painful I'm on board with dying if we keep this up. So if you want to live at all, make some changes."
The changes have in fact been some of the best in my life. They buy me a few years. However, our culture and my fear is such that it seems to take this kind of rebellion and threat of death to really get that it is not "safe" to live a mediocre life avoiding conflict. The safest thing is to create a life worth living. The best place to learn how to do that is by talking to the parts that are not at all happy with the status quo. In a way, it is a superpower: "I am going to bet the farm on a meaningful life and if the punishment is too high from a consensus reality I'll kill myself. But I'm going to do it for me. I'm not going to worry about any of the people who would gladly push me to death before they stepped out of their own narcissistic bubble and actually considered how I feel in the boxes they try to push me into. Fuck them! Let's focus on the many amazing creative ideas of the part that never fit into any boxes and that has the most to offer to a world too scared and myopic to recognize the opportunity."
This is how I make decisions in general: "Who wants this? Why? Who doesn't want this? Why? Can either side solve the problem the other sees in the decision? If the "yes" can show the "no" how they can get what they want and still proceed, we go with "yes" as the more competent leader able to look out for more parts. If the "no" can give the "yes" what it wants without having to proceed in some other way, we don't do it. The goal is a unified self in which decisions are made that include the needs and values of as many parts of the self as possible. Sometimes there are compromises: "If you will take this job with this crappy client I will charge the client $30k extra for being so crappy. And because you went along with this, you get to decide how the $30k is spent. If you want to take three months on Maui and buy toys - fine. No restrictions. This is your payment for putting up with a crappy client. Meanwhile, I will do my best to generate more work so none of us have to choose between crappy clients and being poor. Is it a deal everyone in there feels good about?"
This works. It works in marriage too: Recently my wife's inner 17 year old wanted an adventure. My inner 5 year old has attachment disorder and had a fit after a week of being separate. I realized my 5 year old could not deal with more than a week in isolation at this time and that the 17 year old hated having to look after my five year old. I'm also very thrifty about family money which starves my wife's inner teenager of adventure. So I made a deal: "Come home and your 17 year old can have $7k a year to play with at my expense on adventures that last not more than about four days. Otherwise you can continue your trip or get a divorce but my 12 year old will hate you and my five year old will be traumatized and I will find a back up lover when you leave, which will not work for your inner six year old who is tremendously jealous." Simply by knowing parts well inside and in one's partner, alliances can be clearly developed and maintained with the freedom to separate at any time if the deals that need to be made do not get a majority vote on both sides.
I realize that these things are low-ranking culturally. However, I think it is far more idiotic and immature to ruin perfectly good relationships because one or both party's did not have the awareness or maturity to admit that in most cases the inner child and adolescent decide if they will or will not accept a romantic partner for reasons of their own that we are shamed into hiding. I would rather tell people "I will leave you if you cross this boundary because of the pain I will have on my hands taking care of an abandoned five year old that I'm not very good at doing," than I would simply leave rather than give someone the chance to understand me. It's also a good partner filter: Since almost every partner I know makes emotional decisions for the same reasons, I look for people who are more worried about the damage done from unconsciousness or hiding than they are from looking bad to the spiritual or cultural critic we have all developed to avoid embarrassment.
One of the most interesting TH-cam comments in the last few years, for sure
thanks Dane for sharing
Thanks for this
Wow...you gave such a wonderfully detailed description. this was so helpful. I am sure that I make decisions based on unhealed parts of me. So instead of just getting mad and getting a new wife, you told her what you were dealing with and you guys negotiated. hell yeah! this is real. thank you.
@@shaundaross123 Hi Shaunda, thanks for letting me know you found my words helpful. I do a morning meditation where I give my small parts something they needed and did not get when I was young - it improves my day a minimum of 15%. Warmly, Dane
Tim, great show, thank you very much! I would expect Dr. Schwartz to be nominated for the Nobel price.
Absolutely agree❤
Dick is a genius and a pioneer. A thousand thanks, gentlemen.
I love Tim Ferris. So much empathy for little Tim that went through so much pain and is still trying to get past it.
31:00 for anyone looking to know more about IFS, this is the time stamp. He talks about exiles, parts, roles, protectors and firefighters here.
From my understanding, parts can be viewed like little inner children. Everyone has parts to themselves, that are there for a reason and have a certain role.
Typically they're innocent (like children) but when they get hurt, like with trauma, they have the power to dump their burdens and emotions onto us. It's kinda like when a kid is hurt, and you're a parent they try to communicate their hurt to you. They cry, shout, are angry, etc. So what we tend to do is hide these parts of us away.
These are called exiles, because we exile them into an inner basement (for example). This causes other parts of us that are not exiled, to jump in to 'cover' for these exiled parts. This is the equivalent of 'one kid helped mom stay connected and grounded, but is too hurt to do so now, so the other kid has to step in and protect this hurt kid'. You can see the problem with this analogy: this kid needs to take on quantities that can backfire in the future, such as being aggressive and assertive with the overbearing mom.
So in order to protect the exiles to be triggered (because once they do you go down in a flame of emotions), you have parts of you that take on a 'protector' role. Examples of protectors include those that:
- keep you a distance away from people (so you don't get hurt)
- make you change your appearence (so you don't get rejected)
- make you have a perfect performance (to counter the worthless you may feel by recieving external praise/validation)
More specifically these are called 'manager protectors' because they manage you (they make you do things to protect you). Picture a kid trying to be a parent because they needed to, and now this kid runs your life. You can see issues with that: they're in over their heads, not mature enough to properly manage you in a compassionate and understanding way, etc. which can turn them into harsh inner critics, angry managers that shout at you when you do something wrong, etc
Then there's the caretaker: the role that takes care of other people all the time, instead of taking care of yourself. Imagine a child always having to take care of other people, never having the time to take care of themselves - for whatever reason. Maybe because they needed the child's support to stay mentally afloat. Then as the child grows up they never learn how to take care of themselves and always prioritize others over themselves because that's just what they were taught growing up.
Then there's firefighters. If things get past our defenses, like protectors, and the exiles are triggered - firefighters are what stop the emergency. They take out the flames, distract you, do whatever they can to stop the emotions from spiraling out of control. There typically a heirarchy of 'emergency' measures, like:
- eating
- working
- addictions (drugs, alcohol, video games, etc)
- at the top of usually suicide
Typically the more trauma u have the more exiles u have and the more extreme your parts are (the more they can overwhelm you and the stronger your emotions are).
Then there's the Self. It's the part that everyone has, is the 'true you' in a sense, can heal, and can be accessed by allowing the parts to hold space and not talk over one another.
Underrated comment. Thank you for the added notes.
I want to comment in this part of the video so that I do not forget. There is a part of me that can totally relate to being bullied and wanting a protector to stand up for me. There is also a part of me that can relate to not being able to protect that part. There is a part of me that was storing that in my GI. There is also a part of me that was storing it in my head. I offered it all to the wind. Let it just blow away.
Dr. Schwartz’s groundbreaking insights into “parts” as fundamental structures of human personality and his gentle, so-caring method of working with them, as shared on this podcast, is extraordinary. Thank you Tim for your revelatory vulnerability and such notable excellence when in interviewer mode.
He is genious Suzanne
Suzanne verbose
Feeling so much love and appreciation for Tim Ferriss. ❤️ Thank You Dick Shwartz for this beautiful healing approach.
Wow - this episode - what a massive service to society!
3:35
I loved the entire interexchange.would love to learn under him and Gabor Mate someday...Though I must say that I have attended one of the workshops conducted by DR.Mate and must say, it's a real blessing to have these healers around.Thanks Tim for bring this conversation on the table and putting yourself out so courageously.
Just love your honesty, your clarity, interviewing style and willingness to make yourself so vulnerable. You both represent the very best of America! Have shared this podcast widely. Keep on shining the light guys!
Powerful work, Tim. Thank you. Going through the psychedelic therapist training with Annie and Michael Mithoefer was life-changing for me. IFS is part of my daily self-love practice.
Its life changing
This absolutely brought me to tears....thinking of my own inner parts, and the care they need. Thank you for the demo, and thank you for the quiet spaces you allowed while you were accessing your inner parts.
Your comment brought me tears - I mean that kindly.
Tim is a highly successful amazing badass especially for broadcasting this parts work session. Knowing someone of that accomplishment and influence has similar feelings as me is wildly liberating. What a freakin badass
What does the manager/critic look like in someone who's had a decent childhood? Thank you so much for this interview - IFS is making more and more sense. Not pathologise these parts of ourselves, we can begin to love them - and with love and acceptance comes integration , healing and wholeness. ♥
I have enjoyed your podcast through the years and have recently been diving in to the world of IFS - so I was more than delighted to see that you interviewed Dick Schwartz. Wonderful!
Tim Tim Tim. This podcast is a gift . Thanks. I both look up to you and I also am your equal. We're all trying our best in this world and the main takeaway of this episode is that it is so hard for us to trust ourselves and trust our feelings. I, too, sometimes feel like I am making it all up but at the same time it makes all the sense in the world. Thank you again
When tim mentioned visualizing the scared, confused side of him in his peripheral, I started doing the same. I envisioned on the other side a strong, guiding personality, my confident, self loving side reaching out his hand and enveloping the scared self in a hug.
Thank you! Great work! Gratitude for doing this in public. You're exceptionally helpful.
I really admire your open-ness and willing to put yourself on the edge to open doors for other people Tim,
Thank you so much for this podcast. I really appreciated your vulnerability and courage to use yourself as an example as it demonstrated clearly how helpful this therapy can be. I was able to follow along and substitute my parts and their replies to the questions. I plan on following up with reading more books on the subject. I feel such a sense of freedom and lightness. It feels amazing. Thank you so much for doing this. Wishing you well.
healing, deeply healing experience. thank you for sharing.
Interesting experience. I followed along with Tims guided IFS session and did my own. My anxiety was in my abdomen and chest. I worked with the part and with the small child that it was protecting, and went through the steps. She also chose to put her feelings in the fire, like Tim. After she had discarded her feelings in the fire, I asked her what she wanted to invite in now. She said she wanted to song, dance, laugh, jump around. So I let her do this a bit. Then it was done. But immediately I felt a constriction in my throat. Like the anxious part has moved upwards. I guess I will redo the guided session with this new throat anxiety. I was just really taken back by how instant the throat tension appeared. And it hasn't gone away
Is there another protector involved to work with?
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Tim for showing up and getting real. I almost didn't listen to this because all the adds one needs to get through before the talk even starts but I stuck with it and it was worth it. I do IFS work on my own for the most part but started with a practitioner who sort of incorporates it in to a type of tapping called IT. It has helped me heal so much. But, sometimes I get lost right from the start and have been having a difficult time getting through to this one little fearful part who displays anger as a defense. It gets more complicated than that but . . . It sounded so similar to your experience and as you went along it was just all so very familiar and so so helpful for me to hear how it's done. So, again. Thank you and may your healing journey continue to be of benefit to beings everywhere who suffered and suffer through complex trauma. Also, just wanted to add, I'm 70 and proof positive that it is never too late to heal.
This is incredibly powerful. I am trying this out on myself, and am learning so much about myself already. Thank you
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
WOW! love, awe, healing and gratitude from here. thank you for sharing this powerful healing modality in so personal a way.
Thank you once again Tim for ‘opening the kamono’ and helping us experience IFS & the hope it can purvey & instill. A very insightful, informative interview on a transformative technique.
Now as with all of these pointing’s and teachings, time to bring it into everyday practice when my ‘parts’ try to run (ruin) the experience...ultimately coming into & resting as the seat of ‘S’elf - I wonder if you & Eckhart Tolle could do an episode sometime.
Thank you again for helping to heal yourself & allowing us to be a part of that journey & heal ourselves as well.
Godspeed & MuchLove
Wow....this went deep and far. Blown away.
I'm grateful that Tim's experience with anger and fear is so similar to mine. My anxiety manifests in a lot of tightness in my neck and shoulder as I shrink down into myself.
Incredible discussion and the books are a really good study
I loved the beginning with you speaking about publishing your book and that week of solitude. My therapist and I have already discussed how much of an emotional process it will be and how important it will be to create boundaries for protecting myself. As you mention, many who share these kinds of stories open themselves up to having many who also share their stories as well. It can be heavy and "tough" like you mentioned. I resonate so much!
FAAAB-ulous! Very helpful, doable! Thank you! The example was really helpful...
This was awesome Tim. Ditto on comments appreciating your openness & vulnerability. I stepped through this with you regarding my own dramatic past and it was very illuminating & freeing. It pairs very well with the work I'm doing with my spiritual director who recommended this particular podcast for my further study/healing. THANK YOU!! Definitely incorporating more of this in my journey!
Absolutley fascinating. As a grad student in Counseling, this was super valuable! Thank you!
We need a app for these checkins!
Thankyou for this
All the best things!
Excellent interview. And thank you SO much for raising and discussing the fact that psychedelic therapy is not for everyone. I was horribly traumatized by a bad acid trip in high school. I went on to have good experiences with psychedelics after that but the point is that I experienced what DS calls a “fragile ecosystem” of the mind. I spent some time in that abyss and was lucky to make it back. Not everyone does.
This is amazing work Tim
It feels amazing to know about psychedelics all thanks to this online store I was able to get some mushrooms and they got some lsd gummies cannabis xtc and another stuffs
What about if your part destroys your energy with chronic fatigue. So drained
The guy taking it to the next level is a humble woman and I know her. Could you please put me through PhD Schwartz ?
And Tim, thank you so much for speaking about the sexual abuse. I think it's very common thing for men.
Great sir
After 4 minutes I left this podcast. Lost me to ads.
Whoa
1:26:20 reminds me of Lao Tzu: “A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.”
Hit up this plug I ordered from.he sells psychedelics discreetly. He have shrooms, Dmt, Lsd, and more
Check out on Instagram
@mycotenn
The Tim Ferriss youtube gang
I find IFS much more simple than others seem to! I'm an Aspie so maybe that's why. It doesn't need to be complicated but it's not easy. I don't want to be anyone else, and I know that humans can think themselves in and out of any scenario. Don't believe everything you think 😘
Anywhere you can go for spare parts?
Haha yea man I got some for sale, just message me. 😅
I need better sleep 💤😴
You need a nice comforter, a good book, some hot coco, candles, a crackling fire, some ocean waves and thunder playing in the back ground and you'll be asleep in due time, after all the fun of course.
Id like to know what to do when the person has a limited Self.
Look up Tara Brach, meditate with her, Byron Katie also explores and enquiries. Patience , pause..
The communication with harmful parts (why are you here, why are you doing this to her) reminds me of exorcists communicating with demons. Interesting parallel
I have that inner critique, (I have learned to block it from manifesting but it rears its head sometimes) it calls me a retard and acts absolutely disgusted at my mistakes. Like I'm this impossible, painfully uncool goober
"of course you were gonna mess up? Why am I not surprised"
Another part of me that I get from my dad is a goofy childlike sense of an almost gen z "random humour." I get echolalia with certain phrases and melodies. My dad used to come up with ridiculous parodies of songs and goofy little catchphrases in a silly voice (think Kurtis Connor pee pee poo poo type humour, that's me and my dad in this state)
My pets really bring it out with me, as they give me a space to be this person without looking wierd. (OK, less wierd lol)
Right now, The Explainer is talking. In this state I want to share my experiences and analyze my self deeply. I feel comfortable and confident in my lack of succinctness . I enjoy the way I express my thoughts, even if it's a lot.
Temet nosce said the oracle
💚
❤
Phychadelic experience with out drugs prove it please?
Miau
Stats say 1 in 5 are victims today.
I see your Schwartz is as big as mine.
"Experiences without drugs" 37k views lmao
This is meta-cognition on steroids buddy.
Wow, took a hard left turn there and shifted 2 gears at 37:40 to randomly talk about psychedelic drugs… what the hell. Right after Schwartz gives an eloquent explanation on ifs and gets everyone so primed… man, keep the convo on track buddy that was jarring honestly. Schwartz must have been briefly irritated I know I was. The record scratched and harmony derailed.
wish Tim would be quiet more so the other guy can talk.... i'm surprised people liked this podcast because all i hear in the start is a highly caffeinated man talking about himself and it is totally irritating.... please shut up... i've never had this reaction to an over talking man who should not have a guest since he's controlling the talk
It's HIS podcast and it's free. we get what we pay for. this might introduce some person in need to this modality.
@@shaundaross123Podcasts are about the topic & person they’re interviewing, you numbnut, not about the podcaster’s ego. This guy is right. Tim is a narcissist who hijacks every interview…🤡
A transcription of the demo, with some maybe helpful highlights:
docs.google.com/document/d/1iRl6FWBpPIm_rSTvlqgzU7g7X_Z9OlD-synYr88bH9A/edit?usp=sharing
Just found your podcast and discord. Really great live sessions.
@@owenlarson07366 🤗 Welcome! Thank you!