yup I think she said "jaime, tyion is tywin's son, not you" or something like that she's speaking to the similarity in personalities between tyrion and tywin. but i suspect that its one of the many clues that jaime and cersei are aerys bastards (I did a couple videos so far but not the main videos. I'm actually finishing up a lil stannis series, then two arya videos which are oet projects, then finishing up the jaime/cersei dragon series. so prolly late junish, early July
Ok, I think Cercei is a Lannister, but I believe after season 6 when she was held captive she lost all remores and burns everyone she wants to burn. I just think she is a mad queen instead of a Targaryen.
I'm with you-- Cersei was always unstable, and everything that happened with her children just put her over the edge. I'd have to be part mad, too, to live with the fact that my son (Joffrey) was such a monster.
So if Cersei is the mad King's child then so is Jaime. Aerys told Jaime to kill his father at the sack of King's landing. So, Ser Jaime was just following orders right?
i had prepped my jaime videos december 2017, and i didnt catch that one you just mentioned until very recently (since it had been so long, i decided to do one final comb through of Jaime/Cersei chapters in advance of the Cersei and Jaime videos) unfortunately, well, fortunately, i decided to squeeze in a tyrion video before the main one (jaime), and i havent combed tryrions 30+ chapters yet. so im trying to do a few every couple days while working on other videos. because i want to save the jaime stuff (plus summary type stuff related to many characters) for the jaime video since he's my boy that means ive gotta get the tyrion video done first, for better or worse
there is something called heteropaternal superfecundation in which two separate ova are fertilized by two different fathers... meaning Cersei could be Aerys' and Jamie could be Tywin's...
Nah, she is a Lannister. Yes, all those parallels are real. But that speaks of the "lust for power". The show is trying to tell us how vicious it is. At the beginning of the show, it was the Targaryens they were blaming for losing their mind due to madness. Now, the corruption of Cersei lannister just proves how everyone who lusts and sits on the throne is equally vulnerable to it. That's what Cersei's behavior is all about.
If you look around these channels you will loose your faith in humanity due to how ridiculous these theories are. Its actually sad as most of game of thrones fans right now are causals who don't understand or appreciate the real narrative's of ASOIAF which are shown in the books and early seasons.
yeah i'd go so far as to say the true villain of this story is the throne and what it represents, which is why i think it will be destroyed in the end (at least in the books)
I think that it was foreshadowing that Jaime (hopefully in the books) will kill Cersei. All the comparisons of her to the Mad King were made by him, so Jaime just saw her transfrormation into the mad person she had become due to variety of events, starting with the maegi's prophecy.
Ever since you started hinting at "Jaime Targaeryan" I have been rewatching the show with that theory in mind. So I picked up a scene in season 2 episode 7: Tyrion and Cercei are talking about how crazy and uncontrollable Joffrey is. Then Cercei says "Every time a Targaeryan is born the gods flip a coin." Peter D does some brilliant acting where he hesitates slightly, glances at her, and then says "You've beaten the odds..." (and then in a bit of an offhand way) "Tommen and Myrcella are both good decent children." Do you think this is just some foreshadowing or that Tyrion might suspect something about his siblings' dragonblood?
Thematically it makes sense that Cersei and Jamie are Targaryen and Tyrion being his only true heir. Tywin was always afraid Aerys II would make a fool of him.
It makes Tywins hatred of Tyrion so much more relateable imo, Tyrion is the one son he got and the one his beloved died birthing. No wonder he was so eager to slaughter the Targaryens down to the last child. I think his explanations to Tyrion as to why Elia Martell and her children were killed in ASOS(or wherever it was) were as much for him and Oberyn as it was for Tywin himself.
But GRRM has also hinted that Daenerys may be Ashara Dayne's kid. In book 5, Barristan Selmy realizes how Dany has the exact same eyes as Ashara. What if, in Rhaegar's pursuit of the prophecies, Rhaegar and Ashara had Daenerys?
There are also rumors that Tyrion is Tywin's son, as well. Wouldn't it be wild if all of Tywin's children were The Mad King's, making Tywin Lannister the ultimate cuck of the GOT. It would be an elegant balance to an otherwise master villain.
That would also mean Tywin's wife got raped more than once and didn't say a thing. Aerys was enamored with Joanna, there's nothing to say she was too right? Timeliness doesn't add up my friend
evidence points to the twins being aerys, not tyrion.. however if all were aerys, one could assume tywin may have been infertile. re rape - just could have easily been an affair... there were rumours.
@Loraine Waiter I don't recall any other dwarfism in the Targaryen line. Also Tywin and his wife were first cousins. Lots of women die in childbirth. There is a lot of interest in dragons and as Tyrion said when he went to free them drunk, they know who their friends are... so these could all just as easily be red herrings. I think it's quite possible they are all Aerys' children not Tywin's, but if any of them are Tywin's, it's going to be Tyrion. He has the Lannister intelligence and cunning. It's highly implied that Aerys was sleeping with Joanne early on in the game, but we don't know if that affair continued years later.... Since Tywin is such a prick, it'd be poetic justice for only Tyrion to be his son... and it'd follow the whole unknowing kinslaying of fathers which recurs throughout the story.
Marcella was a innocent so you understand a mother's heart revenge. But tommen was her own doing. And In indulging joffrey she condemned him long before he became king. If anything I'd say in my opinion that she is her own worse enemy.
@@bridge4 But tommen was becoming a good king. In time he could've become a great one. But you get where tommen stood. His mother betrayed him. Murdered his wife and family. Murdered innocent people who were killed in the blast. And knowing he would used as a puppet. So Noone can't blame him for jumping. And Im sure you agree but the prophecy is in my own opinion is self fulling. Pretty much she is responsible for making it come true as anyone. And now she has lost Jamie.
@@alanmike6883 I don't think Tommen would have been a good king. He was weak. I know he was young, but you only have to look at other young characters in comparison to see it, i.e., Dany, Jon, all the Stark children, Lyanna Mormont. Tommen was completely lacking in gumption or inner fire or whatever it is that makes a good leader. I think he knew it too, and that's the real reason he jumped. He didn't have the strength to stand up to his mother.
@@caseyblauvelt9223 I agree with everything you said except for I don't think Tommen was weak. I think he didn't want to partake in the obviously wicked extremes his mother was going to use him to get whatever she wants. I think he took a big stand when he took himself out.
I really like this theory: it makes much more sense than Tyrion being a Targaryen - you pointed all the relevant items and hints out. But most of all I love the fantastic irony that comes with it: Jaime (being Aerys's son as well) would have killed his own father - just like Tyrion killed his. Tyrion, loathed by Tywin all his entire life would have been the only child Tywin ever had. The Gods , who always "flipped a coin" when a Targaryen was born obviously had dropped it when Cersei gave birth to Joffrey, LOL. And just imagine: Robert Baratheon, who always shouted he would "kill every Targaryen on earth" had shared his bed with a Targaryen for 15 years - not to mention the 3 Targaryen bastards he raised. I think George R. R. Martin loves ironies - we can find them all over in his books. That's why I can imagine that theory being true.
In the show, Tywin says "you are not my son" to Tyrion (right before he shoots him) but in the books he says that phrase to Jaime (the last paragraph of Chapter 62 in "A Storm of Swords"). There may be a divergence of "who's the bastard in the Lannister family" between the respective plots.
And even if he wasn't a bastard, Jon would still be before Jaimee in the line of succession because Rhaegar was older than Jaimee, Rheagar was the heir and therefore Rheagar's son, Jon, is then the heir to the throne. @@dfunkt2291
I think this theory would be the last unexpected twist of the books and series. Tywin was very cunning, but Cersei doesn't think things through like he would. I feel the wildfire references truly give away her (and Jaime's) true lineage.
i would also like to point out that there is a conversation that Jamie has with his cousin, cant remember her name, she tells Jamie that "Tyrian is Tywins son". and when dany asks selmy about her fathers love life, he tells her that he had a crush on tywins wife, and insinuates that he slept with her on their wedding night. anyway, i think this is coming, at least in the books. GRRM also puts misleading clues in the books too thought.
Having any of the Lannisters be secret Targaryens takes away from the story IMO. I’ll be disappointed if it becomes a thing at all, but if it does I like the thought of Jaime/Cersei being Targaryen more than Tyrion.
so the dude that puts out these videos only like comments of his OWN theory and not of anyone else? i think ill stop watching these then.. and take what i brought with me... that's a shitty way to keep a yt channel. best comment on here and its the only one he hasn't SD'd hearted...sucked... shame... HA! shame... indeed.
This. Jon and his secret birth is enough. Anymore secret births just take away from that being special. what purpose does it serve to make Jamie and Cercei Targaryen other than to make some puns fit.
Neither her nor Jaime are Targeryens. Is she mad? Yeah. Mad with power. Every leader who runs empires in dictatorship fashions are always mad with power. Paranoia eats them alive and all they know how to do is react! BUT this is something that I can also stand behind you and say Damn! You might just be right! As smart as Tywin was though, I think he'd know!
However, if Jamie and Cersei were Targaryen it would have rendered Jon Aryans use of Lannister genealogy to determine the paternity of Cersei's children as wrong and without merit. His suspicions were key to his murder and Ned's conflicts with the Lannisters
When she went mad after being held captive and had the Sands pulling on chains to reach each other, it clinched it for me. The idea of the younger, more beautiful queen and the valonqar being one in the same...Her little sister Dany...makes me so happy.
I think Cersei is definitely the mad queen, people try to push that on Dany and I feel that it’s a bit unjust. Cersei has always clutched to power and tried to weasel her way to a higher position, which she ultimately achieved. She already has this “burn them all” mentality with wildfire which is crucial. This wasn’t a situation like with Dany, where she gives people an option. Cersei planned and coerced to not only kill her enemies but kill innocent civilians that were there to see the trial unfold. She is already a tyrant who gets off on torturous behavior. And thus I feel that Jaime will be the one to end her life. He is already a king slayer, and that title will only resonate more when he realizes how mad his sister has become and so things will come full circle for him in his character arc.
This is a great video, all around: great examples from the text, and show, and History and Lore videos; great editing/smooth transitions; great audio and spoken samples.....one of your best videos ever, Kev!
Aw leslie!! This one stresses me out a little bc I put so much time into it,yet in holding back the main clues for now. So I feel like in going to get attacked And I don't really care. But for brief moments of time, comments lie I expect on this one serve as mini energy vampire's I'd be happy with people being a tenth as nice as you lol
Whoa. This is an incredible video that has given me so much food for thought! I’m still trying to process this! I never thought Cersei’s emotional instability was a signifier that she was the Mad King’s child, but it makes perfect sense! So does the fact that she and her brother don’t think there’s anything wrong with their incestous relationship, considering the long line of brother-sister incest in the Targaryen family tree, maybe on a _genetic_ level they somehow felt it was okay. Wow. 🤔 I wonder if Tywin ever suspected this? He loved and doted on Jaime so much! Crazy.
Just want you to know how much I truly enjoy your videos. I have been planning to take the plunge and read the books, hesitating only because the thought of them not being completed is terrifying to me once I've started. But your videos have pushed me over the edge into how necessary it is. The fact that they are obviously dense and rich enough to spark these possibilities, especially after the show was thrown together so quickly to just get to an ending, characterization be damned, is thrilling to me. So thank you, truly, for your work!
the pleasure is mine. thank YOU for the support dont forget about the side stories like "a knight of the seven kingdoms", fire and blood, and twoiaf =)) enjoy the ride!!
Cersie will pay. She's taking the path of the Mad king before her. And if I remember, she is on Arya's list. Maybe she'll have a complete turn around and actually help kill the White walkers
@@bridge4 maybe Arya will kill her in mercy to finish off her list. I want her to say "Burn them all" as she dies. Telling Jamie to burn the White Walkers as she dies in his arms
Arya taking the face of one of the kingsguard and killing cersei with it... she has the one of meryn trant, but what about the hound kills gregor arya flays his face and cerseis own creature kills her... that´d be cool
I have this love hate relationship with Cersei, it was badass watching her blow up the Sept of Baelor with wildfire, but at the same time I had this burning hate for her. it really would make sense if she was a Targaryen.
No character will ever find out though because Aerys and Joanna will be the only ones who would’ve known, maybe George R. R. Martin will tell us some day but I’d be very surprised if the books released this
I do predict we will find out that tyrion is madkings son in the ice and fire lots of Targaryen foreshadowing in the books. Jamie and cersie aren't Targaryen I am 99% sure lol. You never trulely know with marin
History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes. Cersei is all Wildfire...Amazing yet again brother, thank you for sharing your perspective with us it really is outstanding.
@@bridge4 Wonderful stuff. You should know all your work is appreciated bro, I know how dedicated you are to this anyway ! Really enjoyed the fact this one was almost 17 minutes long, it must have taken you some time to complete. I hope you are now taking the night off to enjoy some well deserved rewards :D Jaime Targaryen tried to kill his half sister the idiot, I wonder what she is going to think of his arrival at Winterfell.
Lol. I finished this one a week ago. It took a long time. 100.hours? I dunno. And it's performing like crap lol But I did skate down to beedubs to find out what my superbowl pool.numbers are. And the dudes not here.
Many members of house targaryen have fall in love for each other insted of been forced to marry each other , daenerys grandparents marry in secreat ( brother and sister ) agains't their parent's wish , aegon targaryen was also know to love his sister Rhaenys.
i often use an image of GRRMartin's head over the mountains body. so this time, i recorded myself saying GRRMountain. i didnt end up using those images where i thought i would tho =))
Maybe that's why Tywyn didn't trust cersi because when a targaryen is born the world flips a coin, one side they become a noble hero (Jamie) and the other they become insane ( cersi) and Tywyn knew this and as soon as Jamie prove which one he was, which would be when he killed aery, he knew not to trust cersi but instead use her madness by marrying her off to Robert in hopes I would get him killed and the Lannisters would get the throne
I actually think the similarities between cersei and the mad king is more about the fact that the will for power for powers sake is poison on the mind..
I love this video! And I have always been more in the side of C&J being Targs over the Tyrion =Targ theories, but this erased any doubt. As you always point out in your brilliant research, lines aren't ever thrown away when they come from GRRM. And knowing this video isn't even a stand alone makes me very happy and even more in awe of your research skills! You do a great job with all your videos, but this one is in your top 10. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this. I'm always grateful for the amount of work you are willing to put in for "us". This "theory", backed up with your textual evidence is the epitome of great content. As many have said in the comments, they were on the fence and now know that C&J are Targs. Your talent of taking theoretical ideas and creating a tangible reality is a huge testament to your willingness to always go the extra step in not talking at your audience, but rather communicating with us, which are two very different things. Thank you, Kevin.
It's obvious none of these GoT theories are true but your tone of narration and commentary is so silky that we want them to be true. lol I bet chicks at the bar stand no chance against you. "You should join me for an incredible night of coitis. Here's why...." LOL
I have very bad hearing tho. So in public, I tend to scream with my head-voice as oppose to using my gut voice (which comes across when I'm trying to reduce my plosives we recording into a mic) I know, it doesn't make sense. I deaf, but that doesn't mean others are, so I dont have to yell.... but I'm a dummy, so I can't help it. I tend to yell So unfortunately,I can only ever remember recieving one compliment about my voice outside of youtube You're funny tho. Thanks
Excellent video! I hadn't noticed the part where Aerys commanded the pyromancers to drive off winter, which made me think: Is this the reason behind the Long Summer that has lasted a generation? I also consider Summerhall to be the reason, because many Targaryens, who have the blood of R'hllor, lost their lives, and might have fueled the Summer this way. We know they have this magical blood as Septon Barth has said that a mysterious race originating from the Shadowlands beyond Asshai taught Valyrians how to bond with dragons, and perhaps even bred with them. Well, R'hllor is the god of Flame and Shadow, above Asshai there is a place called "Stygai" where even SHADOWbinders dare not tread, so Valyrians might have had children with Black Walkers (opposite of White Walkers, who, in turn, might have bred with First Men and found House Stark). Given these two theories make sense, I think we could assume that next season, Melisandre and the crew of Light might create Fire Others with dragonglass, like the Children did, but this time, calling to R'hllor, not the Great Other.
+bridge4 Well, that's about the Long Night. I just said a theory thay could explain the connection of the Starks with warging, and of the Targaryens with Dragons/Dragon dreams.
+bridge4 Anyway, the Targaryen theory for both Jaime and Cersei is awesome, makes things even sadder, especially for Tywin (even though bastard deserved it :) )
thanks, Kris think we'll get one? maybe they will jsut drop one on their YT channel during the superbowl? (i figure there's probably not much of a benefit of spending the money for a 30s slot on tv though). what do you think?
If Aerys knew that Cersei was his....he would have married her to Raegar.....as it would have kept the bloodlines strong. Why would he overpass Cersei for Elia?
Maby because she was a bastard our maby because she was only half targaryen and didn't have any targaryen features ( silver hair and purple eyes), in the books aerys refuse to meet and touch Rhaegar fist born( Rhaenys targaryen )with ellia martell because ' she smelled dornish' ( she didn't have targaryen features ).
becuase he hated tywin so much that he’d be willing to slap tywin in h face rather than keep the bloodline pure, also Aerys probably wouldn’t have wanted Rhaegar to have any excuse for meeting wth Tywin lannister, he was that paranoid of the two working to over throw him.
She is just nuts and sadistic but it would be a hilarious twist ...Jaime isn’t power hungry or brutal in any fashion so it could just be twins being opposites in personality.
I love you for posting this! Yes. Cersi, Jaime, and Dany are siblings. Jaime is going to play the ultimate game of “who’d you rather ( incest edition)” when he has to choose between Cersi and Dany. It’s also the ideal snub to Tywin because his “true seed” produced the “defective” (in his eyes, not mine: no H8) dwarf Tyrion. I love this channel. ❤️👸🏾
i've toiled with how the reveal could come, if at all. and i've only come up with 1 way. that'll be in part 2 of this 4 video series (2 is tywin, 3 is tyrion, 4 is jaime)
how do you think bran could spoil it? what vision would he see and what would prompt him to look for that? (or would he stumble on it looking for something else?)
@@bridge4 it's something difficult to introduce since their mom hasn't appeared. If they aren't Tywins'sons, I believe that Bran from Jamie's kill of Aerys, is the only flash back GOT could use. I can't imagine any other way to break it.
@@diegocoppa6275 This is all the more reason this won't be a thing, at least in the show... just randomly "oh by the way Jamie and Cersei are Targaryens" and then nothing happens because of it. what purpose would this serve? None.
I was on the fence about this theory until you reminded us of the Dornish poisoning(the rhyming of history). We all know how heavy handed the later seasons were in terms of translating table setting from the books, so that could be quite telling as the last season plays out. Good work as always 💯
im not following. the rhyming of the dornish poisoning? oh are you referring to the bit in this about Cersei's lust for torture? (which event do you see it rhyming specifically with?)
The whole attempt at stark house desolation. It’s eerily similar to the Dornish house actual desolation that it reminds me(show first, then book follow) of the same GRRM resolution to an age old trope. Seeing The Mad Queen attempt the same premeditated torture to Dornish was bone chilling
to be fair, i read my scripts verbatim usually. but i dont write like most writers. i talk outloud, and type my thoughts. then i sort of try to amend them. but when you do that, it doesnt sound natural, because im not a writer lol. so as im recording, i resay things how they feel natural (but scripting helps to try to be concise :))
There's NO ONE like Kevin. He's thorough, he speaks in a great cadence, he laughs (which is very endearing), his kindness comes through every thing he does, and he speaks to the "everyman", ie, you don't need numerous PhDs to enjoy and understand his content. He's smart as hell, but not pompous in any way. Kevin is the Davos of the TH-cam kingdom. Which is the highest praise I can ever give to anyone. He's a good person.
Great vid, Kev! Lots to think about. I'm still spinning from either the pharmaceutical elixir I've been swigging or your last video regarding dragon eggs laid by a female with wolf's blood. It kind of makes one think that Cersei has already risen from the fire (show), since it was the burning of the cept that made her queen. And the poisoning of Tyene Sand was similar to the killing of Brandon and Rickard Stark with a bit of a twist ... having the mother watch her daughter die. Will Cersei be the Targaryen that succeeds in "burning them all"? And will "all" include the Jon Snow that is powerful enough to defeat death itself? Or will her step-nephew bury his long claw into the heart of the dragon in time? We'll find out soon! Glacier/wildfire ... Ice and Fire! Interesting!
I guess you hadn't seen my tease video a couple days ago. I wish u had and I had included that bit in this one It's all good tho bc the Jaime one will have the biggest clues and also extra benefits to jot only Jaime but also cersei, tyrion, and twin anyway. Plus, that'll be some nice icng for the final video on this topic :))
Thing is, GRRM seems to like repeating themes with different origins and effects. For example, men without penises. Removing the penis is actually a rare form of castration historically, but it has different implications for Varys, Greyworm, and Theon. Likewise insanity and incest show up in different places: The Cersei-Jamie relationship is very different from Viserys/Danaerys. Also, consider the idea of dynastic incest vs. incest in defiance of convention. You can have insanity crop up in either circumstance, but the meaning of the incest and the effect of the insanity is very different.
I thoroughly enjoy hearing these theories, though I seldomly agree. It's just fun to see where it goes. And, at the very least, I pick up on things I may have overlooked.
Jack Gleeson and Iwan Rheon were hands down the best actors in the show. Maisie Williams is probably the best currently. Lena is good, but can't hold a candle to their performances
She is one of the best bro, not the best in my opinion there have been many greatest actors in game of thrones Charles Dance and Sean Bean to name a few...
Well it is a song of ice and fire... It’s strange how it was so obvious and yet not many of us even thought of it. Great video, very powerful and I am wowed!
Excellent work, my friend. I think you're absolutely correct. I love the idea that Jamie and Cersei are Aeryes' and Tyrion is Tywin's only true born son.
the best stuff will come in the jaime video. but originally, this was a 6-8 minute mad queen cersei "parallels" section in that video. so i decided to split it out into its own. and then it grew lol thank you btw
I believe all of this but I was just wondering.. what was that about Tywin telling Tyrion: "Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors since I cannot prove that you are not mine." is he just in denial?
Here's a lost of them (from each seasons bluray): gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Histories_%26_Lore Search TH-cam for the individual titles or the full seaosn "histories and lore"
Some have conjectured that Bran had an influence on the Mad King becoming crazy mostly due to his burn them all comment. Is there any evidence the same might have happened to Cersei with Bran conversing with her?
my take is bran influencing the mad king doesnt really make sense unless it was an accidental hodor type even with jaime near bran fighting wights and yelling "burn them all" that was probably bloodraven, and its probably the reason bloodraven warned bran not to speak to people in visions
makes sense and kind fits into the fact that danys dragon always is alone most of the time while the other two are together just as dany is alone while jaime and cersei was always together. mad theory but cersei turning mad queen = viserion being turned, 3 heads of the dragon = dany jaime and cersei.
i dont buy into night queen cersei, but ive actuyally got a detailed outline for that. so im going to throw together a video on that, even though i usually only present stuff that i believe in... i think it's a live dog tho, so it's worth presenting all the clues i guess
I haven t watched the video yet, but I think so!! there are lots of clues to that effect. whats her name telling Jamie that tyrion is tywins son. and baristan telling dany about her fathers crush, and misuse of the ancient "kings rights" plus the obvious insest, and hair color
For the life of me I can’t remember which book it’s in but in one of Tywin’s chapters you see him speaking to his sister about Tyrion. His sister says something like “he is your only true son” or something along those lines. We learn later that he never speaks to his sister again. Does anyone else remember this? Oh, and the whole idea of the Targaryens “tossing a coin” of madness every time a child is born. That’s 50:50 What will that say about twins.
Hey Bridge4, would you be interested in doing a video on the dysfunctional dynamics of the key members of House Lannister? When it comes to Lord Tywin's relationships with his children to their relationships with each other, I think there might be more than meets the eye... From a psychological analysis perspective. Think "Flowers In The Attic"... How can they all loathe and constantly undermine each other so much, and yet they're constantly and incestuously intertwined in each other's lives? It's like they're addicted to the drama and to each other... I would like to see that idea explored much more. Human psychology is fascinating.
I'm not a Cersei hater, like I use to be. During her walk of atonement, I actually felt sorry for her. When Robert Strong / the Mountain was reanimated and came to her side, I was actually happy for her. I didn't like the High Sparrow/ faith militant and was glad when she destroyed them. When Marcella and Tommen died, I felt bad for her. Losing a child is enough to drive someone crazy. Losing all 3? Probably into some kind of madness. So I do feel for Cersei. How could she trust anyone again after what's happened to her? In the show last season, Olenna Tyrell and the Sand Snakes probably got what they deserved for poisoning her children. Maybe that's just revenge, mixed in with the madness. As for sex, it seems to be common for soldiers to want sex after a battle. So it's not just a Cersei mad queen thing. A few other questions. Do Cersei / Jaime need to be Targareon? How would Cersei /Jaime find out that they are Targareon? Would Bran somehow find out and tell them? If they are secret Targareon's could one or both of them be Azor Ahai / Nissa Nissa / Lightbringer? Could Cersei help kill/heal the Night King? Maybe she's not a villain, but the antihero. Also, another thought I had is that this madness isn't just a Targareon thing, but seems to be a common symptom of fire worshiping or fire magic. There's Melisandre's evil sacrifices. Daenerys burning her enemies to death with either her fire or her dragons fire. Even Tyrion seemed to have some temporary madness as he destroyed Stannis' fleet at Blackwater Bay with wildfire. Come to think of it, all pyromancers seem to be super crazy. The Mad King Aery's madness was at a much higher level though. He had no self awareness. Never bathed or groomed himself, and probably smelled horrific. I doubt Cersei falls into that level of pure insanity. It also makes me wonder if some of the madness is related to wildfire's secret ingredients? What could those secret ingredients be? Perhaps dragonglass? If "Frozen Fire" created the white walkers, then maybe unfreezing the "frozen fire" is related to madness. Maybe it's even related to the white walkers awakening from a thousands of years of sleep.
A lot to take in. Great post BTW. I'll be adrressing the "how to find out" later this week. I don't expect it, but it's possible And I totally hear ya on sympathizing with her. For me it starts with her being basically traded as a wh*re so that drunk Robert could do as he wants with her. That's messed up
Keith Allen I agree with you! Wanted to write the same. I think that not fire but power makes people go mad. When someone can do whatever he wants he looses the possibility to think.
I'm rereading Game of Thrones and I saw this passage and had to find this video. It's the scene where she meets Ned and he basically tells her to run. "Her eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil." I thought you were stretching for this at first, but I'm slowly starting to side with you. Since day 1 I have said it was Tyrion who was the Targaryen bastard, but that would be almost too easy.
Tons of green pools (wildfire) dancing in her eyes. Like u mentioned. The Tyrion stuff is petty heavy-handed, so there a decent chance that he's the red-herring and its really jaime/Cersei (which adds way more to the story than Tyrion being a bastard) :))
If I ever get to the tywin part of this analysis, I'll explain why, but I don't think tywin knew. So I look at it as more of an Easter egg than a decision by tywin
At the start of this video, I thought this theory was ridiculous, but as I reached the end I thought it was very plausible. Good job on the vid, keep up the good work 👏
It was awesome to see this!! You do an awesome job! Where did you find the actors reading out of the books!! I would rather listen to this when I’m on the road traveling 16-18hrs . I have season one in audio but it’s not as interesting as the characters reading Have a great day!! Can’t wait to see your next video! 😉🤗
thanks =)) its the histories and lore videos (from the blu ray) some of the lines happen to match lines from the books, but there's a lot of reworded information here's a list of them (you can search for them all on youtube): gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Histories_%26_Lore
I’m thinking the parallels to the Mad King might just be to explain her spiral into madness of her own. OR to foreshadow part of the prophecy the witch gave that she would be killed by a “younger brother”? Jaime is technically younger. Also the king slayer. Food for thought.
This is the truth now. Cersei and Jaime are Targaryens. Everything you said has to be true, no other way possible. Also kind of ironic. Tywin told Tyrion that he's no son of his, while Tyrion actually was his only child. Also makes sense with the named: Tytos -> Tywin -> Tyrion. That way the names make sense, since the houses with weird names usually change the names just a bit. Tytos -> Tywim -> Jaime is strange. I like it
This is awesome ur channel does great videos. Have u done a video on tyrion's relationship with dany's dragons? Watching this video immediately caused me to recall those scenes in the book when the dragons were locked up cuz dany went missing.
I'm on Team Cersei on GeekChat1. Jaime and Cersei are Mad King's kids. There's so much foreshadowing🔥🦁🐲 You're the best at breaking these topics down. Don't know what we'd do without you Thanks for ANOTHER great video.😍👏👏💖
bridge4 this is one of the few ASOIAF theories that I can actually see becoming canon, at least in the books. Imo it’s not discussed often enough, so I’ll be looking forward to your whole analysis
You are completely right Cersei is Aerys's daughter in the books it will be revealed I really think so. Aerys and Cersei are so similar in the books even in the show. I like this video you made about Mad Queen Cersei.
How you put it together, leaves no doubt, they are Targaryen. I really enjoyed the wildfire references but I realized, I hadn't watched the Jaime video, you had referenced. Now on to that.
jaime isnt done srorry. i just have to say that in advance for people who watch this one months from now. ill have parts 2-4 done this month tho. Tywin, then Tyrion, then ending with Jaime my apologies for the tease
@@bridge4 classic! I was looking for it and kept figuring, I was missing it. Well, I look forward to seeing it. Jaime, is the best character in the books and all your videos of Jaime, are outstanding. I can't wait to see it. Actually, I am glad it's not done. It will keep the anticipation up and make it even better.
In ADWD Daenerys VII (chapter 43), Sir Barristan speaks about the one girl Aerys loved. This was Joanna Lannister. He goes on to say that after too much wine it is said that he took his Lords right too far during the bedding of Tywinn and Joanna's wedding. I believe this nugget was was placed for a reason. I also don't recall any other mentions in regards to to the relations between the Mad King and Joanna Lannister. I also think the conversation between Jamie and his Aunt at Riverrun in AFFC is telling as she states that Tyrion has has the mind of Tywin. Just a couple things I have noticed during my last read through.
It would be ironic if Tyrion is his only true son
for sure =))
I’ve always thought he was. I figured it was a common theory.
He is the o ly true lannister
Sounds exactly like something George would do
yup I think she said "jaime, tyion is tywin's son, not you" or something like that
she's speaking to the similarity in personalities between tyrion and tywin. but i suspect that its one of the many clues that jaime and cersei are aerys bastards
(I did a couple videos so far but not the main videos. I'm actually finishing up a lil stannis series, then two arya videos which are oet projects, then finishing up the jaime/cersei dragon series. so prolly late junish, early July
Ok, I think Cercei is a Lannister, but I believe after season 6 when she was held captive she lost all remores and burns everyone she wants to burn. I just think she is a mad queen instead of a Targaryen.
Cersei and Jaime are still at least half Lannister, no matter who their father was. Joanna was Tywin's first cousin.
I'm with you-- Cersei was always unstable, and everything that happened with her children just put her over the edge. I'd have to be part mad, too, to live with the fact that my son (Joffrey) was such a monster.
Well, the imprisonment and madness mirrors Aerys, but I don't think it's because they're related.
When did Cersei have remorse for anyone past season 4? She was a monster
@@Argos-xb8ek That's true
So if Cersei is the mad King's child then so is Jaime. Aerys told Jaime to kill his father at the sack of King's landing. So, Ser Jaime was just following orders right?
yup, that's one of the plethora of cool color that this reveal (or interpretation) adds to the story =))
i had prepped my jaime videos december 2017, and i didnt catch that one you just mentioned until very recently (since it had been so long, i decided to do one final comb through of Jaime/Cersei chapters in advance of the Cersei and Jaime videos)
unfortunately, well, fortunately, i decided to squeeze in a tyrion video before the main one (jaime), and i havent combed tryrions 30+ chapters yet. so im trying to do a few every couple days while working on other videos. because i want to save the jaime stuff (plus summary type stuff related to many characters) for the jaime video since he's my boy
that means ive gotta get the tyrion video done first, for better or worse
@@bridge4 take your time bro the work you do isn't easy and you're good at it. But I'll definitely be eagerly awaiting Jaime Targ KINgslayer stuff
Thanks :))
there is something called heteropaternal superfecundation in which two separate ova are fertilized by two different fathers... meaning Cersei could be Aerys' and Jamie could be Tywin's...
Nah, she is a Lannister.
Yes, all those parallels are real.
But that speaks of the "lust for power".
The show is trying to tell us how vicious it is.
At the beginning of the show, it was the Targaryens they were blaming for losing their mind due to madness.
Now, the corruption of Cersei lannister just proves how everyone who lusts and sits on the throne is equally vulnerable to it.
That's what Cersei's behavior is all about.
If you look around these channels you will loose your faith in humanity due to how ridiculous these theories are. Its actually sad as most of game of thrones fans right now are causals who don't understand or appreciate the real narrative's of ASOIAF which are shown in the books and early seasons.
yeah i'd go so far as to say the true villain of this story is the throne and what it represents, which is why i think it will be destroyed in the end (at least in the books)
Well robert hadnt become paranoid or mad, just fat and lazy... so its not the same for every king apparently.
@@arianaorlandi6020 He didn't say it was in inevitable, he said they are vulnerable to it.
I think that it was foreshadowing that Jaime (hopefully in the books) will kill Cersei. All the comparisons of her to the Mad King were made by him, so Jaime just saw her transfrormation into the mad person she had become due to variety of events, starting with the maegi's prophecy.
Ever since you started hinting at "Jaime Targaeryan" I have been rewatching the show with that theory in mind. So I picked up a scene in season 2 episode 7: Tyrion and Cercei are talking about how crazy and uncontrollable Joffrey is. Then Cercei says "Every time a Targaeryan is born the gods flip a coin." Peter D does some brilliant acting where he hesitates slightly, glances at her, and then says "You've beaten the odds..." (and then in a bit of an offhand way) "Tommen and Myrcella are both good decent children."
Do you think this is just some foreshadowing or that Tyrion might suspect something about his siblings' dragonblood?
Thematically it makes sense that Cersei and Jamie are Targaryen and Tyrion being his only true heir. Tywin was always afraid Aerys II would make a fool of him.
for sure
It makes Tywins hatred of Tyrion so much more relateable imo, Tyrion is the one son he got and the one his beloved died birthing. No wonder he was so eager to slaughter the Targaryens down to the last child. I think his explanations to Tyrion as to why Elia Martell and her children were killed in ASOS(or wherever it was) were as much for him and Oberyn as it was for Tywin himself.
hear, hear
I think the parallels between Cersei and the mad king are very intentional to show her insanity. I think it’s setting up her death at Jamie’s hand.
In other words, Cercei and Daenerys are...SISTERS ????
Half sisters :)
Now I'm looking forward to seeing them fight though I shouldn't 😂😂😂😂
But GRRM has also hinted that Daenerys may be Ashara Dayne's kid. In book 5, Barristan Selmy realizes how Dany has the exact same eyes as Ashara. What if, in Rhaegar's pursuit of the prophecies, Rhaegar and Ashara had Daenerys?
If the theory is true*
Imagien cersi screaming "burn them all" in The end🤩
Lmao oh no haha
I wish it happened
There are also rumors that Tyrion is Tywin's son, as well. Wouldn't it be wild if all of Tywin's children were The Mad King's, making Tywin Lannister the ultimate cuck of the GOT. It would be an elegant balance to an otherwise master villain.
could be. but part of the beauty to Cersei/Jaime Targaryen is the Irony of TYrion being TYwin's only biological child
i could dig the full out insult to the dirtbag tywin as well tho lol
That would also mean Tywin's wife got raped more than once and didn't say a thing. Aerys was enamored with Joanna, there's nothing to say she was too right? Timeliness doesn't add up my friend
evidence points to the twins being aerys, not tyrion.. however if all were aerys, one could assume tywin may have been infertile. re rape - just could have easily been an affair... there were rumours.
@Loraine Waiter I don't recall any other dwarfism in the Targaryen line. Also Tywin and his wife were first cousins. Lots of women die in childbirth. There is a lot of interest in dragons and as Tyrion said when he went to free them drunk, they know who their friends are... so these could all just as easily be red herrings. I think it's quite possible they are all Aerys' children not Tywin's, but if any of them are Tywin's, it's going to be Tyrion. He has the Lannister intelligence and cunning.
It's highly implied that Aerys was sleeping with Joanne early on in the game, but we don't know if that affair continued years later....
Since Tywin is such a prick, it'd be poetic justice for only Tyrion to be his son... and it'd follow the whole unknowing kinslaying of fathers which recurs throughout the story.
Marcella was a innocent so you understand a mother's heart revenge.
But tommen was her own doing.
And In indulging joffrey she condemned him long before he became king.
If anything I'd say in my opinion that she is her own worse enemy.
what you're referring to is going to play a part in her ending imo... i wont say more for now though :-P
but yeah, i couldnt agree more with ya in terms of her impact on Tommen
@@bridge4
But tommen was becoming a good king. In time he could've become a great one.
But you get where tommen stood.
His mother betrayed him.
Murdered his wife and family.
Murdered innocent people who were killed in the blast.
And knowing he would used as a puppet.
So Noone can't blame him for jumping.
And Im sure you agree but the prophecy is in my own opinion is self fulling.
Pretty much she is responsible for making it come true as anyone.
And now she has lost Jamie.
@@alanmike6883 I don't think Tommen would have been a good king. He was weak. I know he was young, but you only have to look at other young characters in comparison to see it, i.e., Dany, Jon, all the Stark children, Lyanna Mormont. Tommen was completely lacking in gumption or inner fire or whatever it is that makes a good leader. I think he knew it too, and that's the real reason he jumped. He didn't have the strength to stand up to his mother.
@@caseyblauvelt9223 I agree with everything you said except for I don't think Tommen was weak. I think he didn't want to partake in the obviously wicked extremes his mother was going to use him to get whatever she wants. I think he took a big stand when he took himself out.
I didn't notice it before, but Cersei's threat to Margaery after she called her 'sister' makes a lot more sense now.
I really like this theory: it makes much more sense than Tyrion being a Targaryen - you pointed all the relevant items and hints out. But most of all I love the fantastic irony that comes with it: Jaime (being Aerys's son as well) would have killed his own father - just like Tyrion killed his. Tyrion, loathed by Tywin all his entire life would have been the only child Tywin ever had. The Gods , who always "flipped a coin" when a Targaryen was born obviously had dropped it when Cersei gave birth to Joffrey, LOL. And just imagine: Robert Baratheon, who always shouted he would "kill every Targaryen on earth" had shared his bed with a Targaryen for 15 years - not to mention the 3 Targaryen bastards he raised. I think George R. R. Martin loves ironies - we can find them all over in his books. That's why I can imagine that theory being true.
It's funny and ironic Robert Baratheon hate the Targaryens. Robert himself is a Targaryen's grandson.
In the show, Tywin says "you are not my son" to Tyrion (right before he shoots him) but in the books he says that phrase to Jaime (the last paragraph of Chapter 62 in "A Storm of Swords"). There may be a divergence of "who's the bastard in the Lannister family" between the respective plots.
then that would make Jamie a Kin slayer not a king slayer
a kinslayer kingslayer. just like the night king and jon probably =))
And the heir to the iron throne.
both. but as a bastard not heir to the throne.
Big Stuart He already killed his cousin, Alton (the envoy) in the war of the five Kings right before killing Torrhen Karstark.
And even if he wasn't a bastard, Jon would still be before Jaimee in the line of succession because Rhaegar was older than Jaimee, Rheagar was the heir and therefore Rheagar's son, Jon, is then the heir to the throne. @@dfunkt2291
her turning into a mad queen could simply be more for jamies story arc redemption
If Cersei is in fact the Mad King Aerys' child.. she would be a bastard child from Casterly Rock.. thus making her Cersei Hill
its wild that i wouldnt have even been able to guess "hill" on a multiple choice test for some reasons. thats a cool bastard name! =))
I was wondering about the bastard name "Hill" too. I don't remember what bastards from the Westerlands are called. Gonna look it up 😃
Or Goldfyre.
When Cercei smiles, she looks exactly like my mom. I'm very confused.
Lol
Cersei is pretty with long hair
Then your uncle must be your dad.
@@vincente515 Or Kyle Reese
I think this theory would be the last unexpected twist of the books and series. Tywin was very cunning, but Cersei doesn't think things through like he would. I feel the wildfire references truly give away her (and Jaime's) true lineage.
i would also like to point out that there is a conversation that Jamie has with his cousin, cant remember her name, she tells Jamie that "Tyrian is Tywins son". and when dany asks selmy about her fathers love life, he tells her that he had a crush on tywins wife, and insinuates that he slept with her on their wedding night. anyway, i think this is coming, at least in the books. GRRM also puts misleading clues in the books too thought.
Not cousin. His aunt Gemna Lannister.
King Aerys blatantly slept with Tywins wife all the time
Having any of the Lannisters be secret Targaryens takes away from the story IMO. I’ll be disappointed if it becomes a thing at all, but if it does I like the thought of Jaime/Cersei being Targaryen more than Tyrion.
I agree we have enough secret targaryens. Not only that it would pretty much diminish most of the Lannister houses part in the series
so the dude that puts out these videos only like comments of his OWN theory and not of anyone else? i think ill stop watching these then.. and take what i brought with me... that's a shitty way to keep a yt channel. best comment on here and its the only one he hasn't SD'd hearted...sucked... shame... HA! shame... indeed.
This. Jon and his secret birth is enough. Anymore secret births just take away from that being special. what purpose does it serve to make Jamie and Cercei Targaryen other than to make some puns fit.
There is no proof Jon is a Targaryen.
@@patmacrotch5611 if jaime is targ he might be the third head of the dragon with Jon and dany
Been saying this shit for years. Tyrion the most hated of Tywins son is his only genetic offspring
absolutely
He talked to dragons and survived. He might be Targ.
Neither her nor Jaime are Targeryens. Is she mad? Yeah. Mad with power. Every leader who runs empires in dictatorship fashions are always mad with power. Paranoia eats them alive and all they know how to do is react! BUT this is something that I can also stand behind you and say Damn! You might just be right!
As smart as Tywin was though, I think he'd know!
Tywin was so smart that he knew about Jaime and cersei :-P
However, if Jamie and Cersei were Targaryen it would have rendered Jon Aryans use of Lannister genealogy to determine the paternity of Cersei's children as wrong and without merit. His suspicions were key to his murder and Ned's conflicts with the Lannisters
I had noticed it too while reading the books. The similarities between the mad king and cersei
Also, jaime has some type of fever profect dream in the books, and many targaryens were know of having this type of dreams.
When she went mad after being held captive and had the Sands pulling on chains to reach each other, it clinched it for me. The idea of the younger, more beautiful queen and the valonqar being one in the same...Her little sister Dany...makes me so happy.
I also have always believed Jamie and Cersei were the mad kings children.
I think Cersei is definitely the mad queen, people try to push that on Dany and I feel that it’s a bit unjust. Cersei has always clutched to power and tried to weasel her way to a higher position, which she ultimately achieved. She already has this “burn them all” mentality with wildfire which is crucial. This wasn’t a situation like with Dany, where she gives people an option. Cersei planned and coerced to not only kill her enemies but kill innocent civilians that were there to see the trial unfold. She is already a tyrant who gets off on torturous behavior. And thus I feel that Jaime will be the one to end her life. He is already a king slayer, and that title will only resonate more when he realizes how mad his sister has become and so things will come full circle for him in his character arc.
"wake dragons out of stone." Cerci and Jaime are from casterly ROCK. finding out they are the aery's kids is like waking dragons from the rock/stone
I dig it
This is a great video, all around: great examples from the text, and show, and History and Lore videos; great editing/smooth transitions; great audio and spoken samples.....one of your best videos ever, Kev!
Aw leslie!! This one stresses me out a little bc I put so much time into it,yet in holding back the main clues for now. So I feel like in going to get attacked
And I don't really care. But for brief moments of time, comments lie I expect on this one serve as mini energy vampire's
I'd be happy with people being a tenth as nice as you lol
Whoa. This is an incredible video that has given me so much food for thought! I’m still trying to process this! I never thought Cersei’s emotional instability was a signifier that she was the Mad King’s child, but it makes perfect sense! So does the fact that she and her brother don’t think there’s anything wrong with their incestous relationship, considering the long line of brother-sister incest in the Targaryen family tree, maybe on a _genetic_ level they somehow felt it was okay. Wow. 🤔 I wonder if Tywin ever suspected this? He loved and doted on Jaime so much! Crazy.
Tywin was on denial about cersei/jaime. There was a scene in the show where she came clean and he was so confused lol
Just want you to know how much I truly enjoy your videos. I have been planning to take the plunge and read the books, hesitating only because the thought of them not being completed is terrifying to me once I've started. But your videos have pushed me over the edge into how necessary it is. The fact that they are obviously dense and rich enough to spark these possibilities, especially after the show was thrown together so quickly to just get to an ending, characterization be damned, is thrilling to me. So thank you, truly, for your work!
the pleasure is mine. thank YOU for the support
dont forget about the side stories like "a knight of the seven kingdoms", fire and blood, and twoiaf =)) enjoy the ride!!
Cersie will pay. She's taking the path of the Mad king before her. And if I remember, she is on Arya's list. Maybe she'll have a complete turn around and actually help kill the White walkers
i would love for her to have a redemption arc like that. i dont expect it. but i wouldnt be surprised if it happens. that'd be gnarly!
@@bridge4 maybe Arya will kill her in mercy to finish off her list. I want her to say "Burn them all" as she dies. Telling Jamie to burn the White Walkers as she dies in his arms
The fetus will die in her womb or will be stillborn while the dead army is at Kings Landing walls, will be risen by Night King and kill Cersey
Arya taking the face of one of the kingsguard and killing cersei with it... she has the one of meryn trant, but what about the hound kills gregor arya flays his face and cerseis own creature kills her... that´d be cool
@@apfel3397 Where is she keeping all those faces on her travels? Doesn't that shit rot? 🤔
I have this love hate relationship with Cersei, it was badass watching her blow up the Sept of Baelor with wildfire, but at the same time I had this burning hate for her. it really would make sense if she was a Targaryen.
Same :))
Same
Her blowing up the Sept wasn't supposed to make you like her.
This makes so much sense.... Even more so when you remember how Targaryens practised incest
STRNGS but her and Jamie are twins this is wrong he never broke down how wen did the mad king sleep wit Tywin wife
No character will ever find out though because Aerys and Joanna will be the only ones who would’ve known, maybe George R. R. Martin will tell us some day but I’d be very surprised if the books released this
I do predict we will find out that tyrion is madkings son in the ice and fire lots of Targaryen foreshadowing in the books. Jamie and cersie aren't Targaryen I am 99% sure lol. You never trulely know with marin
History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes. Cersei is all Wildfire...Amazing yet again brother, thank you for sharing your perspective with us it really is outstanding.
Sup brotha
I went to bed after 1 hour. Woke up.at 3am EST and continued my work on a video I finished a few hours ago :)
@@bridge4 Wonderful stuff. You should know all your work is appreciated bro, I know how dedicated you are to this anyway ! Really enjoyed the fact this one was almost 17 minutes long, it must have taken you some time to complete. I hope you are now taking the night off to enjoy some well deserved rewards :D Jaime Targaryen tried to kill his half sister the idiot, I wonder what she is going to think of his arrival at Winterfell.
Lol. I finished this one a week ago. It took a long time. 100.hours? I dunno. And it's performing like crap lol
But I did skate down to beedubs to find out what my superbowl pool.numbers are. And the dudes not here.
Im.not following that comment lol. What????
so cersei and jaimie being a couple is no accident then,huh?
there is that ancient incest blood running throught their veins.
It's in everyone's lol. Tywin married his cousin
Many members of house targaryen have fall in love for each other insted of been forced to marry each other , daenerys grandparents marry in secreat ( brother and sister ) agains't their parent's wish , aegon targaryen was also know to love his sister Rhaenys.
Blew my mind with this one! I never put these strings together!
Am I the only one that noticed you kept saying George RR Mountain at the beginning?
i often use an image of GRRMartin's head over the mountains body. so this time, i recorded myself saying GRRMountain. i didnt end up using those images where i thought i would tho =))
😂😂I didn't notice.
Maybe that's why Tywyn didn't trust cersi because when a targaryen is born the world flips a coin, one side they become a noble hero (Jamie) and the other they become insane ( cersi) and Tywyn knew this and as soon as Jamie prove which one he was, which would be when he killed aery, he knew not to trust cersi but instead use her madness by marrying her off to Robert in hopes I would get him killed and the Lannisters would get the throne
I actually think the similarities between cersei and the mad king is more about the fact that the will for power for powers sake is poison on the mind..
I love this video! And I have always been more in the side of C&J being Targs over the Tyrion =Targ theories, but this erased any doubt. As you always point out in your brilliant research, lines aren't ever thrown away when they come from GRRM. And knowing this video isn't even a stand alone makes me very happy and even more in awe of your research skills! You do a great job with all your videos, but this one is in your top 10. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this. I'm always grateful for the amount of work you are willing to put in for "us". This "theory", backed up with your textual evidence is the epitome of great content. As many have said in the comments, they were on the fence and now know that C&J are Targs. Your talent of taking theoretical ideas and creating a tangible reality is a huge testament to your willingness to always go the extra step in not talking at your audience, but rather communicating with us, which are two very different things. Thank you, Kevin.
It's obvious none of these GoT theories are true but your tone of narration and commentary is so silky that we want them to be true. lol
I bet chicks at the bar stand no chance against you. "You should join me for an incredible night of coitis. Here's why...." LOL
Lmao
I have very bad hearing tho. So in public, I tend to scream with my head-voice as oppose to using my gut voice (which comes across when I'm trying to reduce my plosives we recording into a mic)
I know, it doesn't make sense. I deaf, but that doesn't mean others are, so I dont have to yell.... but I'm a dummy, so I can't help it. I tend to yell
So unfortunately,I can only ever remember recieving one compliment about my voice outside of youtube
You're funny tho. Thanks
Your hearing may be bad but your listening is second to none
hahaha, you're too kind, ser
Excellent video! I hadn't noticed the part where Aerys commanded the pyromancers to drive off winter, which made me think: Is this the reason behind the Long Summer that has lasted a generation? I also consider Summerhall to be the reason, because many Targaryens, who have the blood of R'hllor, lost their lives, and might have fueled the Summer this way. We know they have this magical blood as Septon Barth has said that a mysterious race originating from the Shadowlands beyond Asshai taught Valyrians how to bond with dragons, and perhaps even bred with them. Well, R'hllor is the god of Flame and Shadow, above Asshai there is a place called "Stygai" where even SHADOWbinders dare not tread, so Valyrians might have had children with Black Walkers (opposite of White Walkers, who, in turn, might have bred with First Men and found House Stark). Given these two theories make sense, I think we could assume that next season, Melisandre and the crew of Light might create Fire Others with dragonglass, like the Children did, but this time, calling to R'hllor, not the Great Other.
I don't believe.any blood is magical. And I don't believe rhllor is real
My guess is that humans broke the pact (burnt weirwood)
+bridge4 Well, that's about the Long Night. I just said a theory thay could explain the connection of the Starks with warging, and of the Targaryens with Dragons/Dragon dreams.
+bridge4 Anyway, the Targaryen theory for both Jaime and Cersei is awesome, makes things even sadder, especially for Tywin (even though bastard deserved it :) )
Amazing video. Your editing and narration are dope. So hype for a trailer today 🤙
thanks, Kris
think we'll get one? maybe they will jsut drop one on their YT channel during the superbowl? (i figure there's probably not much of a benefit of spending the money for a 30s slot on tv though). what do you think?
Either way, the avengers trailer has me hype too 😂
If Aerys knew that Cersei was his....he would have married her to Raegar.....as it would have kept the bloodlines strong. Why would he overpass Cersei for Elia?
great point. he didnt know
Maby because she was a bastard our maby because she was only half targaryen and didn't have any targaryen features ( silver hair and purple eyes), in the books aerys refuse to meet and touch Rhaegar fist born( Rhaenys targaryen )with ellia martell because ' she smelled dornish' ( she didn't have targaryen features ).
Bypass, not Overpass. An overpass is a structure like a bridge that goes over another road!
She was promised to him but Maggy the frog's prophecy stated she would marry a king aka ''robert baratheon"
becuase he hated tywin so much that he’d be willing to slap tywin in h face rather than keep the bloodline pure, also Aerys probably wouldn’t have wanted Rhaegar to have any excuse for meeting wth Tywin lannister, he was that paranoid of the two working to over throw him.
Aery’s blood, Tywin parental guidance, and a sprinkle of Baratheon holy matrimony! Yup, that explains the crazy!
She is just nuts and sadistic but it would be a hilarious twist ...Jaime isn’t power hungry or brutal in any fashion so it could just be twins being opposites in personality.
How do everyone think she is crazy
Wow. Makes a lot of sense. You could connect the fact that for Cersei's trial, she chose fire as her champion as well, when she blew up the sept.
Good call!
This would also help the theory that Jamie is the Prince that was promised
I love you for posting this! Yes. Cersi, Jaime, and Dany are siblings. Jaime is going to play the ultimate game of “who’d you rather ( incest edition)” when he has to choose between Cersi and Dany. It’s also the ideal snub to Tywin because his “true seed” produced the “defective” (in his eyes, not mine: no H8) dwarf Tyrion. I love this channel. ❤️👸🏾
=))
Will Bran spoil the truth about Cersei?
i've toiled with how the reveal could come, if at all. and i've only come up with 1 way. that'll be in part 2 of this 4 video series (2 is tywin, 3 is tyrion, 4 is jaime)
how do you think bran could spoil it? what vision would he see and what would prompt him to look for that? (or would he stumble on it looking for something else?)
He doesn't have to. the incest between Cersei and Jaime has become public knowledge in Westeros already
@@bridge4 it's something difficult to introduce since their mom hasn't appeared. If they aren't Tywins'sons, I believe that Bran from Jamie's kill of Aerys, is the only flash back GOT could use. I can't imagine any other way to break it.
@@diegocoppa6275 This is all the more reason this won't be a thing, at least in the show... just randomly "oh by the way Jamie and Cersei are Targaryens" and then nothing happens because of it. what purpose would this serve? None.
Okay originally I thought this theory was interesting but not possible......until this video
it'll get better =))
I was on the fence about this theory until you reminded us of the Dornish poisoning(the rhyming of history). We all know how heavy handed the later seasons were in terms of translating table setting from the books, so that could be quite telling as the last season plays out. Good work as always 💯
im not following. the rhyming of the dornish poisoning? oh are you referring to the bit in this about Cersei's lust for torture? (which event do you see it rhyming specifically with?)
The whole attempt at stark house desolation. It’s eerily similar to the Dornish house actual desolation that it reminds me(show first, then book follow) of the same GRRM resolution to an age old trope. Seeing The Mad Queen attempt the same premeditated torture to Dornish was bone chilling
Cant wait. Best GOT youtuber. Keep killing it bridge4!
thanks, Scobey! =))
to be fair, i read my scripts verbatim usually. but i dont write like most writers. i talk outloud, and type my thoughts. then i sort of try to amend them. but when you do that, it doesnt sound natural, because im not a writer lol. so as im recording, i resay things how they feel natural (but scripting helps to try to be concise :))
bridge4 The content and the thought behind your theories is more important. There’s very little you say that hasnt been researched, and it shows. 👍.
Thank you all :))
There's NO ONE like Kevin. He's thorough, he speaks in a great cadence, he laughs (which is very endearing), his kindness comes through every thing he does, and he speaks to the "everyman", ie, you don't need numerous PhDs to enjoy and understand his content. He's smart as hell, but not pompous in any way. Kevin is the Davos of the TH-cam kingdom. Which is the highest praise I can ever give to anyone. He's a good person.
Great vid, Kev! Lots to think about. I'm still spinning from either the pharmaceutical elixir I've been swigging or your last video regarding dragon eggs laid by a female with wolf's blood.
It kind of makes one think that Cersei has already risen from the fire (show), since it was the burning of the cept that made her queen. And the poisoning of Tyene Sand was similar to the killing of Brandon and Rickard Stark with a bit of a twist ... having the mother watch her daughter die. Will Cersei be the Targaryen that succeeds in "burning them all"? And will "all" include the Jon Snow that is powerful enough to defeat death itself? Or will her step-nephew bury his long claw into the heart of the dragon in time? We'll find out soon!
Glacier/wildfire ... Ice and Fire! Interesting!
Oh wow! I need to remember to quote ya on that in the final video. The parallel to Rickard and branding is priceless!!
Great catch
I guess you hadn't seen my tease video a couple days ago. I wish u had and I had included that bit in this one
It's all good tho bc the Jaime one will have the biggest clues and also extra benefits to jot only Jaime but also cersei, tyrion, and twin anyway. Plus, that'll be some nice icng for the final video on this topic :))
Your knowledge of Game of Thrones is insane! Great video
thanks, Harry =))
Thing is, GRRM seems to like repeating themes with different origins and effects. For example, men without penises. Removing the penis is actually a rare form of castration historically, but it has different implications for Varys, Greyworm, and Theon. Likewise insanity and incest show up in different places: The Cersei-Jamie relationship is very different from Viserys/Danaerys. Also, consider the idea of dynastic incest vs. incest in defiance of convention. You can have insanity crop up in either circumstance, but the meaning of the incest and the effect of the insanity is very different.
I thoroughly enjoy hearing these theories, though I seldomly agree. It's just fun to see where it goes. And, at the very least, I pick up on things I may have overlooked.
Lena is the best actor on the whole show. She is amazing.
Alot of stud actors in this masterpiece. Shes definitely one of them :))
Jack Gleeson and Iwan Rheon were hands down the best actors in the show. Maisie Williams is probably the best currently. Lena is good, but can't hold a candle to their performances
She is one of the best bro, not the best in my opinion there have been many greatest actors in game of thrones Charles Dance and Sean Bean to name a few...
@@wertmaster100 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@wertmaster100 Agree except for Maisie
Well it is a song of ice and fire...
It’s strange how it was so obvious and yet not many of us even thought of it.
Great video, very powerful and I am wowed!
Excellent work, my friend. I think you're absolutely correct. I love the idea that Jamie and Cersei are Aeryes' and Tyrion is Tywin's only true born son.
the best stuff will come in the jaime video. but originally, this was a 6-8 minute mad queen cersei "parallels" section in that video. so i decided to split it out into its own. and then it grew lol
thank you btw
You and that Alt+Delete guy are my go-to GoT vlogs. Keep up the epic work
Thanks :))
I believe all of this but I was just wondering..
what was that about Tywin telling Tyrion: "Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors since I cannot prove that you are not mine."
is he just in denial?
About several things... such as Jaime and cersei
Where those little audio snippets from? They sound SO awesome lol.
Here's a lost of them (from each seasons bluray): gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Histories_%26_Lore
Search TH-cam for the individual titles or the full seaosn "histories and lore"
Olenna Tyrell is definitely my favorite character in the show. The back & forth sarcasm between her and Cersei is great.😂
Some have conjectured that Bran had an influence on the Mad King becoming crazy mostly due to his burn them all comment. Is there any evidence the same might have happened to Cersei with Bran conversing with her?
my take is bran influencing the mad king doesnt really make sense unless it was an accidental hodor type even with jaime near bran fighting wights and yelling "burn them all"
that was probably bloodraven, and its probably the reason bloodraven warned bran not to speak to people in visions
This thought has been on my mind for almost a month now. Glad to know that it was not just wishful thinking by me. Great video.
It's just the start. 3 more on this topic to come :))
makes sense and kind fits into the fact that danys dragon always is alone most of the time while the other two are together just as dany is alone while jaime and cersei was always together. mad theory but cersei turning mad queen = viserion being turned, 3 heads of the dragon = dany jaime and cersei.
So Cersei becomes the night queen 🤔😜
i dont buy into night queen cersei, but ive actuyally got a detailed outline for that. so im going to throw together a video on that, even though i usually only present stuff that i believe in... i think it's a live dog tho, so it's worth presenting all the clues i guess
I haven t watched the video yet, but I think so!! there are lots of clues to that effect. whats her name telling Jamie that tyrion is tywins son. and baristan telling dany about her fathers crush, and misuse of the ancient "kings rights" plus the obvious insest, and hair color
Just how regressive are those Targaryen genes, anyhow? Jon's hair black, Cercei's hair blond. I guess only a dragon x dragon = silver hair?
Seems like it's the most recessive
In the books, it is mentioned that Targaryen genes are extremely recessive as very few traits every show up when a Targaryen and another make a baby.
So this makes Cersei and Jaime Dany's half sister and brother and half uncle and aunt to Jon. Right? This should be interesting. :)
Yup :))
It'd be crazy if so many major characters in the show ended up having blood ties like that
and if there are three targaryan siblings that means the dragon has THREE HEADS!!!
Imagine Jon trying to explain that to his people, or to Sansa, they'll think he's frickin delusional.
Keep in mind, aunt and nephew isn't too big a deal on that world. Tywin married his cousin
For the life of me I can’t remember which book it’s in but in one of Tywin’s chapters you see him speaking to his sister about Tyrion. His sister says something like “he is your only true son” or something along those lines.
We learn later that he never speaks to his sister again.
Does anyone else remember this?
Oh, and the whole idea of the Targaryens “tossing a coin” of madness every time a child is born.
That’s 50:50
What will that say about twins.
If only Aerys was smart enough to realize that Pycelle was the one killing all of his children.
is that fact?
@@MrJoshua1875 when you think about it most of the problems the targaryens face was foul play on maesters' part.
@@madambutterfly1997 iv not read the book,s so Im not clued up on this, just wasnt sure if this was a theory of yours or not
@@madambutterfly1997 sure, but nothing to confirm the pycelle thing, fully, was just wondering if a theory or not, thanks
Hey Bridge4, would you be interested in doing a video on the dysfunctional dynamics of the key members of House Lannister? When it comes to Lord Tywin's relationships with his children to their relationships with each other, I think there might be more than meets the eye... From a psychological analysis perspective. Think "Flowers In The Attic"... How can they all loathe and constantly undermine each other so much, and yet they're constantly and incestuously intertwined in each other's lives? It's like they're addicted to the drama and to each other... I would like to see that idea explored much more. Human psychology is fascinating.
I'm not a Cersei hater, like I use to be. During her walk of atonement, I actually felt sorry for her. When Robert Strong / the Mountain was reanimated and came to her side, I was actually happy for her. I didn't like the High Sparrow/ faith militant and was glad when she destroyed them. When Marcella and Tommen died, I felt bad for her. Losing a child is enough to drive someone crazy. Losing all 3? Probably into some kind of madness. So I do feel for Cersei. How could she trust anyone again after what's happened to her? In the show last season, Olenna Tyrell and the Sand Snakes probably got what they deserved for poisoning her children. Maybe that's just revenge, mixed in with the madness. As for sex, it seems to be common for soldiers to want sex after a battle. So it's not just a Cersei mad queen thing.
A few other questions. Do Cersei / Jaime need to be Targareon? How would Cersei /Jaime find out that they are Targareon? Would Bran somehow find out and tell them? If they are secret Targareon's could one or both of them be Azor Ahai / Nissa Nissa / Lightbringer? Could Cersei help kill/heal the Night King? Maybe she's not a villain, but the antihero.
Also, another thought I had is that this madness isn't just a Targareon thing, but seems to be a common symptom of fire worshiping or fire magic. There's Melisandre's evil sacrifices. Daenerys burning her enemies to death with either her fire or her dragons fire. Even Tyrion seemed to have some temporary madness as he destroyed Stannis' fleet at Blackwater Bay with wildfire. Come to think of it, all pyromancers seem to be super crazy. The Mad King Aery's madness was at a much higher level though. He had no self awareness. Never bathed or groomed himself, and probably smelled horrific. I doubt Cersei falls into that level of pure insanity. It also makes me wonder if some of the madness is related to wildfire's secret ingredients? What could those secret ingredients be? Perhaps dragonglass? If "Frozen Fire" created the white walkers, then maybe unfreezing the "frozen fire" is related to madness. Maybe it's even related to the white walkers awakening from a thousands of years of sleep.
A lot to take in. Great post BTW. I'll be adrressing the "how to find out" later this week. I don't expect it, but it's possible
And I totally hear ya on sympathizing with her. For me it starts with her being basically traded as a wh*re so that drunk Robert could do as he wants with her. That's messed up
Keith Allen I agree with you! Wanted to write the same. I think that not fire but power makes people go mad. When someone can do whatever he wants he looses the possibility to think.
If you think about it though the deaths of Marcella and Tommen were her fault
Tommen, not myrcella (am I wrong?)
Are u saying indirectly since cersei accused Tyrion?
Dude I am so happy you got round to this vid - love this theory, makes so much sense. 👍
its the first of 4 on this topic. this is barely scratching the surface =))
@@bridge4 can't wait for the rest 👍
:))
this is one of your best videos!
Glad u enjoyed it. Thanks :))
I'm rereading Game of Thrones and I saw this passage and had to find this video. It's the scene where she meets Ned and he basically tells her to run.
"Her eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil."
I thought you were stretching for this at first, but I'm slowly starting to side with you. Since day 1 I have said it was Tyrion who was the Targaryen bastard, but that would be almost too easy.
Tons of green pools (wildfire) dancing in her eyes. Like u mentioned. The Tyrion stuff is petty heavy-handed, so there a decent chance that he's the red-herring and its really jaime/Cersei (which adds way more to the story than Tyrion being a bastard) :))
I know this has not to do with much, but does it explain anywhere why Tyrion got the famous "TY" spelling of the Lannister name and not Jamie?
If I ever get to the tywin part of this analysis, I'll explain why, but I don't think tywin knew. So I look at it as more of an Easter egg than a decision by tywin
The problem with this theory is that Jaime is Cersei’s twin. So he would also have to be the mad kings child and he is much more normal.
Cersei is more like Aerys and Aegon, the Unworthy while Jaime is more like Aemon, the Dragonknight!
At the start of this video, I thought this theory was ridiculous, but as I reached the end I thought it was very plausible. Good job on the vid, keep up the good work 👏
Thanks Aiden, more to come on this topic :))
@@bridge4 Thanks for replying, your my favourite GoT / Asoiaf TH-camr, and have made me think about doing videos like yours 👍
Do it, Aiden! Please send me a link if yu make one
@@bridge4 Okay 👍
It was awesome to see this!!
You do an awesome job!
Where did you find the actors reading out of the books!! I would rather listen to this when I’m on the road traveling 16-18hrs . I have season one in audio but it’s not as interesting as the characters reading
Have a great day!! Can’t wait to see your next video! 😉🤗
thanks =))
its the histories and lore videos (from the blu ray)
some of the lines happen to match lines from the books, but there's a lot of reworded information
here's a list of them (you can search for them all on youtube): gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Histories_%26_Lore
bridge4
Thanks so much...
Your the best!!
I will be Driving to Arizona next week.
I’m thinking the parallels to the Mad King might just be to explain her spiral into madness of her own. OR to foreshadow part of the prophecy the witch gave that she would be killed by a “younger brother”? Jaime is technically younger. Also the king slayer. Food for thought.
This is the truth now. Cersei and Jaime are Targaryens. Everything you said has to be true, no other way possible.
Also kind of ironic. Tywin told Tyrion that he's no son of his, while Tyrion actually was his only child. Also makes sense with the named:
Tytos -> Tywin -> Tyrion.
That way the names make sense, since the houses with weird names usually change the names just a bit. Tytos -> Tywim -> Jaime is strange.
I like it
there are 4 parts to this. the 2nd is a little silly. i hope i dont lose people on the way lol
@@bridge4 I thought this was the definitive edition, you convinced me on part one of four. Silliness doesn't matter, it's fun
Lol
They are not targaryens... they are bastards...
Loved this video and the work you do on your videos.
Thanks :))
I wouldn’t be surprised at all. I suspected Aerys had a child by Tywin’s wife, but I wasn’t sure which one.
Tywin's only child is Tyrion, it's just perfect. Sweet justice
I'm with ya
This is awesome ur channel does great videos. Have u done a video on tyrion's relationship with dany's dragons? Watching this video immediately caused me to recall those scenes in the book when the dragons were locked up cuz dany went missing.
I'll touch on it in the tyrion targ video as well as another one on bloodlines.
Short version, I don't believe in magical bloodlines
I'm on Team Cersei on GeekChat1. Jaime and Cersei are Mad King's kids. There's so much foreshadowing🔥🦁🐲 You're the best at breaking these topics down. Don't know what we'd do without you Thanks for ANOTHER great video.😍👏👏💖
thanks, Kerri =))
@@bridge4 I sound like a doofus. Sorry... auto correct 🙄😉💙
Been waiting for this video for weeks. Not even watched it yet and already liked 👍🏽
3 more videos to come on this topic. there's a lot to go through =))
bridge4 this is one of the few ASOIAF theories that I can actually see becoming canon, at least in the books. Imo it’s not discussed often enough, so I’ll be looking forward to your whole analysis
You are completely right Cersei is Aerys's daughter in the books it will be revealed I really think so. Aerys and Cersei are so similar in the books even in the show. I like this video you made about Mad Queen Cersei.
Thanks :))
Outstanding work, my friend.
Thanks bro
How you put it together, leaves no doubt, they are Targaryen. I really enjoyed the wildfire references but I realized, I hadn't watched the Jaime video, you had referenced. Now on to that.
jaime isnt done srorry. i just have to say that in advance for people who watch this one months from now. ill have parts 2-4 done this month tho. Tywin, then Tyrion, then ending with Jaime
my apologies for the tease
@@bridge4 classic! I was looking for it and kept figuring, I was missing it. Well, I look forward to seeing it. Jaime, is the best character in the books and all your videos of Jaime, are outstanding. I can't wait to see it. Actually, I am glad it's not done. It will keep the anticipation up and make it even better.
In ADWD Daenerys VII (chapter 43), Sir Barristan speaks about the one girl Aerys loved. This was Joanna Lannister. He goes on to say that after too much wine it is said that he took his Lords right too far during the bedding of Tywinn and Joanna's wedding. I believe this nugget was was placed for a reason. I also don't recall any other mentions in regards to to the relations between the Mad King and Joanna Lannister. I also think the conversation between Jamie and his Aunt at Riverrun in AFFC is telling as she states that Tyrion has has the mind of Tywin. Just a couple things I have noticed during my last read through.
Good video as always
I also learned a new word ''Teats'' :P
Lol me too. I've only ever seen it from grrm
In Germany/Austria we also say "Titten" (ug) to the breasts (you pronounce teats and Titten nearly the same). Maybe these words are linked
@bridge4 Thx, Kev! Ur the only one who seriously makes me think, reread, & rewatch GOT
nah, thank YOU as always, D Mack!
@@bridge4 I love when someone makes me scratch my head, in a good way. Ya know? lol
=))
You've made a really good case for this!
It's just the beginning, if you lie this, hang in their for the tyrion and Jaime videos. The Jaime one is gonna be fun :))