3:2514:4515:20 As an update to these points, Framework has just recently sent out an email to their Framework 16 preorder holders in which they specifically call out these issues/concerns stating that a color gamut concern will be tackled via a driver update that press units didn't ship with, the display alignment issue will be fixed for consumer units simply because to get press units shipped, they bypassed that particular step of quality control in the manufacturing process, and finally they acknowledged the keyboard deck deflection and noted the work around deployed by LTT and will be investigating ways of improving the rigidity of the deck and if a new revision must be made, they will make the improvements and ship the necessary parts required to deploy the fix to customers who's units have already shipped. Overall, love to see this response from Framework, it just further illustrates their care for the product as well as their customers and shows that they don't shy away from taking into account user/reviewer criticism.
FW has ALWAYS delivered their laptops with a combination screwdriver/spudger. I've used mine to open up my laptop on multiple occasions - on a plane, at the airport, at work, in an Uber, hell, even at a restaurant. LOL.
To echo what Jake said in the end about living with non-ideal keyboard and display: My Framework 13 AMD arrived with one always-on red pixel right in the middle of the screen. That wasn’t great, but, what I noticed was that I was not _super_ mad about it, because, if it were any other laptop, there would be nothing I could do except for returning it, while with the Framework I could keep the laptop and decide what to do later - in the worst case buy a new display myself and replace it. So that’s a big shift in mentality when you know that, even if something is not perfect, you can and, in fact, are encouraged to fix it. (I ended up contacting the support, asked them nicely, and, even though their official warranty only covers 2+ always on pixels, they were kind enough to send me a new display, installing which took like 10 minutes and now my laptop is absolutely perfect. Shout out to Framework’s support!)
not to mention even if you had another brand laptop with 20+ pixels missing entirely, covered under warranty, out of the box, you'd spend at least a month haggling with customer "support" just trying to get the screen replaced only to have them ship you an entire new laptop. god forbid you have data on there.
@@animal579good point about the data! I was thinking, even if Framework doesn’t send a new display, yes, I still can return the laptop if I want, and I’ll just pull my SSD out and throw it straight into another laptop.
@@tapsofosiris3110 Woah! calm down man and stop assuming things, you might be so veteran to this channel that you have stopped watching other review. As I don't think what I said was wrong REVIEWS are supposed to tell viewers about the pros and cons of the product so that people can decide whether to buy it or not. I felt it wasn't right so pointed it out. I wasn't being negative or anything.
@coc_champs Well, it's not like LTT just didn't mention the problem because the issue could be alleviated by a quick hack fix. Also, while there are definitely issues with the laptop, the fact that the laptop itself makes such mods to ameliorate said issues easy should definitely be mentioned. Plus, the upgradability of the laptop makes swapping new, improved parts such as a better display significantly easier. These points should definitely be given merit, and leaving them out would be highly disingenuous of them. So yes, they should've mentioned these fixes.
This feels like a laptop from 15 years ago in all the best ways. Removable storage, ram, replaceable battery and (semi) modular cards? Definitely going to get one.
They should really do reviews more often like this with different team members reviewing different parts of the product. It makes for a very interesting review which we would otherwise not get.
Thoroughly agree! It also helps mitigate the less obvious biases that people have. Like obviously Linus is biased because he's invested in Framework, but if they were reviewing a Lenovo and one of the team just really liked Lenovo then it could affect how the present the information. It's less of a big deal, but a nice bonus. Also, this format was just enjoyable to watch.
Also it means that they can look more into the specifics of the hardware, get more knowledge about it. Of course the team members should also know how a computer works overall, but they would more easily be able to spot problems when they are mostly into one kind of hardware and not a one catch it all :D
This feels like the best laptop review iv watched on this channel in ages. Having multiple people from the different departments deliver the information was surprisingly engaging. It did not feel like an overload of endless talking from 1 person, which is a great shift in strategy! Hope it sticks!
Yes, the usual reviews feel very shallow and not terribly useful with "it should last this much, I guess" and brief Valheim benchmarks. The entire channel has noticeably gotten better as of late.
I wouldnt say they are shallow reviews. But every youtuber has the ability to review something. Not many have a staff head count like Linus. I think this gives him a unique space to do things way different.
@@Walking_Adventures691 The fact that he is pretty much the biggest youtuber, by far, in tech means I'd expect at least a baseline level of throughness on their reviews, which has so far been largely absent. This is much better than usual.
For the people put off by current problems this was the same for the Framework 13. There's going to be concerns or issues that will get fixed in the next iteration of it. If you like the company but don't see yourself buying the product than just wait until it inevitably improves as they get feedback.
@@indigomizumi That's why I waited for getting a Framework until the 2nd generation. The 1st generation of any company's new product segment is always going to have issues.
@@caseymurray7722If I ever get the money I definitely want a Framework 16 but that won't be for a while anyway. So by the time I'd have one many issues would likely be sorted.
As a suggestion, the laptop order on the vertical axis should be maintained between graphs, so that we don't have to keep looking for the Framework laptop in a different place each time. :)
I think that's the point, as they are in order of highest frame rate to make it easier to tell the relative performance. I do think it would be good to have some other way to tell the different models apart at a glance apart from just the name though, like different colours or icons for each one. That might help with the issue of having to find the location of each model in the different graphs.
corporate greed? You really think this is gonna be different? This laptop costs way too much for its specs and modules are gonna cost another arm and a leg. You are way too gullible to think that it’s about anything but money
Props to whoever conceptualized the flow of this video - from the multiple presenters, the graphs, and the writing. I feel like this is how all scripted reviews from ltt should look. It's like an ltt + tq + sc video rolled into one. Just add a few MA-inspired b-rolls and it's the full LMG experience. :)
Ltt owns a part of this laptop company. Everything they said and did is worthless. Imagine other reviewers watching this and seeing that's its not just acceptable but people applaude it. Why shouldn't pc gamer own a piece of a gaming studio? Why shouldn't gamers nexus aquire a piece of noctua? This garbage hurts all consumers. I hate this so much. This community is such a disappointment
yeah i'm glad @Linus Tech Tips hearted this comment, they NEED to hear it. This was soooooooooo easy to watch. I'm never going to buy a laptop in my near future but the way it was presented... man it was compelling and so watchable! DO MORE OF THIS STYLE VIDEO!!!
@@spraynardkruger6426 Seems like your instincts are right but not sure if that’s the right conclusion to draw here. I think it’s only Linus that’s invested in Framework and his business and reputation are probably worth more than a $200K personal investment he made because he loved what the company was doing with right to repair. Not that we should take it at face value, but he’s also said that he basically doesn’t care whether or not Framework is ultimately surpassed by a competitor when it comes to thoughtfully designed laptops that prioritize user service/upgradeability, since that was basically the whole point of his investment: force companies to have to compete with Framework by designing w/ repair rather than replacement in mind. This isn’t an overly flattering review, they clearly have many criticisms as well, and it doesn’t seem like “neutral” reviewers have brought up any major issues which LMG didn’t. I think it might even be the other way around lol.
As someone who loves their Framework 13, I'm so glad the 16 seems to be up to the same standards (minus a few things, like the keyboard). 100% a company I want to support
@@FF18Cloud sure, but right to repair is such a major deal; I feel much better with a framework than a comparable "name brand" laptop, but that doesn't mean it's for everybody, and doesn't mean it's perfect
@@PrimedPixelMusic Right to repair absolutely is a hugely important factor, as is the e-waste reduction. The problem is largely that the benefits are enormously outweight by the cost. It basically costs twice the price of a gaming laptop of similar specs. So it'd need to last you like a decade or more in order to start being beneficial. So the arguments on ewaste are very limited.
@@Patrick-y4d1z I can't disagree. I was lucky to have found myself in a position where I could afford extra for things like e-waste reduction and right to repair, but you're absolutely right in that there's a lot of work to do with the price
The modular nature and potential longevity of this laptop seem very promising. Just like you said, barring any major issue, this could very well be the last laptop I'd need to buy!
I've got the Framework 13, and I agree with Jake's statements at the end. There are some things (especially the speakers) which aren't up to the standard I'm used to from previous laptops, but instead of being filled with regret, I'm just a little bummed and waiting until better speakers are released. And while I might go "this thing was better on my old laptop", I also then have to remind myself "the old laptop I needed a replacement for because I can't open the chassis to change the battery and clear out the dust that's causing it to overheat". I'm glad Framework seems to still be thriving, and I hope it grows to a size where more third party modules become available, maybe starting with some better speakers 😛
There are some third party modules already, but they are small run or open source hardware projects developed by hackers and enthusiasts. Not everyone will have a use for Spacehuhn's ESP32 module, for instance.
"Not only because I invested my own money and want this company to succeed." I appreciate him starting the video on that note for those who don't already know.
Idk about Canada, but it is illegal in a lot of countries if you don´t disclose your conflicts of interests or if a social media post is sponsored. While I feel like Linus would do it anyways, because he cares about being trustworthy and not being malicious, there might be laws that make him do it anyways.
That praise is too high. He did fine in parts but a lot of it was just terrible and hard to watch. I gave up on the video at his point as I was losing the will to live, and I'm sure the stats back this. I had to come back hours later to watch the rest of the video.
Ltt owns a part of this laptop company. Everything they said and did is worthless. Imagine other reviewers watching this and seeing that's its not just acceptable but people applaude it. Why shouldn't pc gamer own a piece of a gaming studio? Why shouldn't gamers nexus aquire a piece of noctua? This garbage hurts all consumers. I hate this so much. This community is such a disappointment.
@@spraynardkruger6426Look, they have more than enough people in the company to receive, test, write, review, produce and edit this video without Linus ever seeing their feedback until it goes live on the channel. You don't have to agree, but I believe they did an excellent job of giving honest feedback. And most of their feedback was then backed by workarounds in the event that they discovered something undesirable Linus, personally, has stake in Framework - Linus Media Group, does not.
@@spraynardkruger6426 and? they specifically list that bias, its not secret, they put it up front. They also didnt just give it a perfect review. Everyone has biases, the important thing is to be upfront so we can see where they are coming from
This is absolutely amazing to see. I have taken apart and reassembled hundreds of laptops. My favorite were the older Dell tough books. Some HP laptops, and Acer had some OK laptops. This is a whole new ball game
You guys probably aren't looking for random ideas, but a live fourier graph during the speaker comparison would be really helpful to visualize the difference. Great review, great laptop! Really excited about the future of framework! (Typing this from my AMD 13)
I would love this. I hope they see this because this is the most objective way they could measure speakers for us, and given they're striving for that with Labs, they really should.
How about a graph to explain why I'd want speakers on a laptop anyway? What are they for? Making me a target of violence in the local coffee shop or on a train? Intruding on other people's space? Getting worse sound than cheap earbuds? Sure, it's very impressive how good they can get the sound on bad speakers stuck in bad situations but that doesn't mean it's worth doing in all cases.
The biggest thing for me is that Framework is banking on the fact that you can buy this one chassis and replacement components will cost you about 3/4 the price of buying another laptop in 2 to 4 years time. See, the only reason we even demand greatness from laptops today is because they can't change after you spec them out. Can't swap memory, can't swap SSD, gotta pick the right display size and type, all that stuff. Fair model, but when Apple demands hundreds of dollars for RAM, storage and features (and knowing WinPC laptop makers follow where Apple goes), Framework's alternative looks better by comparison.
@@FlyingCIRCU175 The Apple comparison is pretty harsh, but accurate. Laptop makers doing thin/ ultra-thin probably do need to solder in ram and maybe the ssd, but in a chassis with similar thickness to the Framework, mostly are still upgradable.
I've been using a framework 13 for a year now, and I love it. For me, the flexibility of being able to choose my IO and replace individual parts, is revolutionary, especially since I bought my laptop for work, and am totally responsible for it's price. The break on my last laptop that cost me $1300 to replace the laptop, would've cost literally $60 if I had a framework at the time. That is revolutionary for me, and all the bendyness or mess that goes along with a modular laptop is not even a question for me - this is unbelievably worth any headache. I want the 16", but I'm of course sticking with the 13 until I turn it into a little thin client one day, like 5 years from now, and then, it'll still be useful to me.
@@freedomearthmoon1 Um, the Framework 13 is available with either Intel or AMD CPUs, so I have no doubt that the FW 16 will get that option in due time as well, since the FW 13 started out as Intel only! I have an early one of those by the way, already over 2 years old... and I'm about to replace the existing 11th gen Intel version mainboard with the 13th gen Intel version!
@@scottrabinow2773 I've been following Frameworks progress and the first laptops offered Intel or AMD CPU's from day 1 but with integrated graphics. Now, it's 100% AMD, 1 CPU and 1 GPU. Granted, powerful options. I'm a video editor and don't care about fps in video games. Intel & Nvidia integrates better with most editing software. AMD was in second place so long most software was built to run better on Intel and Nvidia platforms. Its unfortunate but true, its also another reason AMD cost less. Many consumers don't care about fps in Hogwarts. The myopic testing done on GPU's on youtube benefits gamers but that's about it.
framework 13 '' cost 500 dolar,and a laptop with everything on it is already 500 dolar,and if you upgrade to nvdia video card,you need to find a card that suport the laptop frame,go and search for parts thats suitable for this laptop until that time,just use,intel embedded gpu with no performance for gaming,only watch youtube and some movies :)))...
@@rembrandrembrand I guess they don't do the math. The 16" 7840HS+1T+32G+P3/165Hz one is $1600 while I can buy a same config new 16 laptop except sRGB/90Hz for $600... almost near 3 of it... really a first world problem
As a person who recently threw out 5 old laptops that I accumulated have been kicking around my garage for a long time, the frame work appeals to me for the same reason as Jake said, it could be the last laptop I buy. Yes it’ll be expanded or upgraded in the future but recycling an old GPU or using the screen for something else after it’s useful life is by far better than binning a complete machine
@@noliebetweenus in that case, buy the new chassis and put your old components in them! most of them should work, and if they don't, that's a major oversight.
@EZX280 I'd argue that this isn't a fair claim as the internals for the Framework 13 won't fit in the new and innovative F 16 chassis. I think it's unlikely that Framework would make breaking changes to the chassis without good reason, since their business model is the "green and repairable laptop company", but if you consider the F 16 to be an upgrade to the F 13, it is a breaking change.
You’ll just need to replace the motherboard to get a new socket for that new cpu you want and that will come with new ram tech so you’ll have to replace that too. For the price of an entire new laptop. But you’ll still have your old crappy battery and outdated 500nits screen I have owned multiple very modular desktops. And almost never have I done just one simple upgrade of a component. Almost every upgraded turned out that building an entire new system would be way more interesting. I don’t get how that would be different with a laptop. You can make laptops modular with an external display and and external pci-e box and a sound card and an external mic and webcam and keyboard and mouse all connected to a Thunderbolt + usb hub
@@noliebetweenus who cares, no reason to buy another computer just to follow a different design. None of my electronics is current, and I don't desire to chase the newest trend. If I could upgrade my 2nd Gen Intel 15" dell laptop i absolutely would, I love that thing, but i can't...
Jake at the end summed up my thoughts on the laptop pretty well. Sure you're paying a premium for a similarly spec'd laptop, but if I my screen gets busted... Or if the battery just ain't cutting it anymore... I'm not out another $2k for a whole new laptop. And same for wanting to upgrade.
Considering that a new laptop that you bought because the specs arent up to your demand anymore, gives you a brand new chassis, a brand new screen, keyboard, trackpad, battery, etc. "for free" minus the money you can get by selling of your old device, I am not sure about this. A quick and dirty excel sheet I set up made it look like it takes more like 3 or 4 "upgrade cycles" to warrant the high price... And that would mean that you'd be okay with using THIS relatively bad screen for the next decade or so, does not include money spent on new batteries and such. Considering those "non-essential" upgrades, we're looking more at 4-6 upgrade cycles or in other words: around 20 years of usage. This is not a financially smart choice.
@@WoodsSooperDooperShop while there's definitely some people out there who would, 90% of people aren't going to sell their old laptop, iyt's going in a storage bin or trash can. Also, if the issue is only that the laptop isn't fast enough anymore, you don't need a new trackpad, keyboard, monitor etc. That's a lot of waste for no gain
@@WoodsSooperDooperShop my exact thought i have to buy atleast 3 laptops for it to be worth it, and at that point id rather just get a new one each time with new everything, and prob get more out of selling the old one then i would my framework parts. i want a a framework but the cost needs to come to come out to 2 or less laptop purchases. and me personally if im getting it for gaming i also need to see a 120hz screen on it and nvidia gpus
Linus actually inspired the idea of everything on laptops being modular. It’s so when he inevitably drops it and something breaks it can just be replaced
I use a Framework mainboard in the CoolerMaster desktop case as a bit of a homelab server. One thing to mention is that the expansion cards aren't exactly cheap when you buy a set of them. The gigabit ethernet card is especially steep at around $50 CAD but the display cards and microSD reader are $25 CAD each and the USB-A and USB-C cards are $12 each. All together, you can wind up spending more than what a good UGreen hub costs with more ports. Not a huge issue, just be aware that you're going to pay more for flexibility.
maybe chinese market is ideal for this company but not in europe or in usa,parts wil be expensive in europe and usa,in china is the parts cheap actualy even in china they cant sell this product,in china laptops are cheaper then europe and usa,this project wil be dead soon,last time there was a modulair cell phone even with out seriouse investors the phone was dead..
@@rembrandrembrand This is the problem when you think everything is about price. Framework is doing just fine. They're not a budget brand; They're NOT competing on price, they're competing on flexibility and upgradability. For example, I run a home server using a Framework mainboard. I was able to buy the mainboard and a cooler master case designed for it without needing to buy the whole laptop. I'll be able to upgrade the mainboard later without needing new RAM or a SSD.
This felt like one of the best put together ltt vids I've ever seen. Flows seamlessly, review has personality while sticking to the hard facts, and I felt surprised at the end of the vid when I saw that this was 18 minutes long.
Ltt owns a part of this laptop company. Everything they said and did is worthless. Imagine other reviewers watching this and seeing that's its not just acceptable but people applaude it. Why shouldn't pc gamer own a piece of a gaming studio? Why shouldn't gamers nexus aquire a piece of noctua? This garbage hurts all consumers. I hate this so much. This community is such a disappointment
@@spraynardkruger6426 Linus declares in the very beginning of this review that he himself is a stake holder not LMG, thus the reason of him having his employees give the product an honest review free of potential bias. There was complete transparency I personally applaud Linus for his decision to give a large sum of his money to a small startup with ideals he believes in and having the integrity to not allow his investment to skew the review. If he truly was untrustworthy there wouldn't have been as much negative things said about the product and the ending would have left with a high recommendation to buy the product instead of being much more in the gray
@@spraynardkruger6426 Did you even watch the video? It's LINUS who has the investment not LTT as a company. Linus has put his own personal money into Framework, Luke and the others haven't. If you're gonna talk about the video and critique the channel and community at least do the smart thing and watch the video oh my lord
On your blender benchmarks you should include whether its a cpu or gpu render gpu renders are generally far quicker and nvidia has an optimization/hardware advantage, which two rendering methods: a) cuda rendering b) optix rendering, which utilizes nvidia rtx hardware ray tracing capabilities Im sure its cpu renders here because, well, if it was gpu the nvidia powered laptop would have won quite apparent anyways, would love to see that distinction made in the graphs
As a Blender user I'd also like to know some of the settings used for the render as that would be more informative to me especially if I am considering purchasing the product.
A great video series idea to me would be have each of the three from this review finding the laptop that "feels" the closest to them, then filming a series of trying to do stuff like replace a wifi card or keyboard etc. Things that are theoretically possible to be done to the laptop. Then doing the same task for the framework laptop
I was all on the hype-train, but then I realized there is no battery module. As someone who works in IT and business, extended battery life is crucial for travel and on-site support. Chucking two battery and a GPU module into my backpack would save me so much time and effort when traveling. Please Framework, make a hot-swappable battery!
Damm this is a good idea, reminds me of my first phone. It kept dying mid day as I used intensive apps the whole day. So it dies, just switch the battery. No need to wait for a slow power bank.
I picked TUF A16 for best battery life among all similar laptorps - it was lie as always. 90w battery barely lasts 6-7h with Ghelper tweaked to max for lowest 7-9w consumption. I solved it by bying Anker 100Wh powerbank /7+ more hours/. I am speaking about Outlook+Firefox 2-3 tabs here so minimal usage. W10/11 just eats battery like crazy, Linux with 6.6 kernel is the same 6h. its tragedy after using M1 Macbook /17+ hours usage/.
We have two FW13s, and have been very impressed by them. My wife had never done any form of computer assembly before, and she was able to assemble her DIY FW13 with only the smallest of guidance. I love what this company is doing and hope they have great success.
They forgot to mention that the dGPU is not meant to be removed, like, at all (only for upgrading). Last time I checked, the connector was rated for just 50 inserts/removals, so it's not like you can just remove it when you are, for example, taking it for classes, and plugging it in at home when you want to game.
Incorrect. The connector that Framework's connector is based on is rated for 50 cycles, however Framework's connector has been redesigned to support more (although Framework has not yet given a specific number). Here is the official statement from Framework's CEO on Framework's forums responding to someone that said the same 50 cycles number: "That is the rated durability of an off the shelf connector from the same supplier. Two notes on this: 1. We’re developing our own semi-custom connector with the supplier specifically to make it better for end-user handling. 2. The cycle life in datasheets is rarely comprehensive. We’ve had instances where the datasheet on a connector (I think it was a pogo connector) said 100 cycles, and we asked the supplier to retest to 2000 cycles and found the connector passed that too." "We’re developing our own semi-custom connector with the supplier specifically to make it better for end-user handling. The datasheet that people are referencing that states 50 cycles is for an off the shelf connector that Framework Laptop 16 doesn’t ship with."
@@kylereis7854 I compared their design with the one they based on and it's basically identical. I don't see how my statement is untrue, especially because the only ground that Framework has is their word that the amount of cycles in the datasheet is understated. Well, we will see how it goes.
@@_mike You can see the side by side of the connectors at the following link (dots replaced with (dot) to avoid tripping filters: images (dot) prismic (dot) io/frameworkmarketplace/cfb0c9e9-7045-4e8a-8929-c1c2f16dc867_FW16-connectors-deep-dive-blog-wide-04.jpg?auto=compress,format The normal connector (left) has the pins exposed, allowing them to easily be caught and damaged. Framework's connector has the pins more protected that they will only easily bend in the way that they're supposed to bend. That's a very different connector.
@@_mike TH-cam isn't allowing me to reply with a link to the side by side comparison, however if you search "Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive - Connectors" you can see a side by side comparison of the connectors. The original connector had the pins completely exposed, allowing them to be easily bent to the side. Framework's connector has the pins surrounded by plastic on most sides, blocking them from being easily bent or getting caught. These are very different designs, definitely not "basically identical" like you claim. Regardless your claim that "the connector was rated for just 50 inserts/removals" is a untrue as it is not the same connector. Some related connector being rated for only 50 cycles doesn't mean Framework's connector is rated for 50 cycles, especially considering that Framework stated that the reason they redesigned the connector was to improve durability across cycles.
As an advice having a reference for what would be a general or expected good monitor calibration grade (Delta E) appearing highlighted on screen to compare with what the monitor being eviewed got would be awesome! Not everyone watching reviews actually know this and they would appreciate to see how much the monitor deviates or not from what's considered a good Delta E❤❤
I don’t disagree, but the chances are that the people who really care about that probably already know. That said they used to say it so I don’t really know when or why they stopped.
Preordered a DIY 16 when I learned about them and can't wait for it to arrive. The fact that I can buy what I want without having to settle for the choices the manufacturer made everywhere (yes, the framework requires you to settle for some things too) and then upgrade it later if I want (I don't need the graphics, I just want the extra size and IO for my work laptop with that giant battery) is awesome. Really looking forward to using it for years. Getting it barebones and supplying my own SSD and RAM is icing on the cake.
I actually finally saw a Framework in the wild recently. Couple executive-looking guys were using them in an airport I was at, waiting for their flight. Looks like it's really and truly taking off, when I see more than just online entities and redditors using them!
Already saw the showcase in a previous video but still, I'm really glad they're doing upgradable GPUs. Including it in the list of easy-to-replace things in a laptop unlike before, and potentially making it so popular that other brands would hopefully emulate it. LTT investing in Framework is one of the best things that could've happened in this timeline. They have really went full desktop-like modularity with this.
I'm surprised I haven't heard about this already. When it's time for a new laptop, this is definitely the direction I'm going. I love the easy upgrading!
It still doesn't quite guarantee an impartial review, though - instead of Linus himself doing the review, now it's people who work for Linus doing the review.
One thing that's probably good to know was how noisy were those fans during the tests. Might be a nitpick they could improve, just like the flex on the keyboard.
I've pre-ordered one, so I get the newsletters. They said that the review units are near-final test units, but some still have noise issues with the fans that they fixed late in development, so you probably won't get reliable info about how loud the fans are from anyone with a pre-release FW16.
I agree with Jake's final thoughts. All of the problems can easily be DIY'ed or upgraded down the road. Plus I don't mind paying a little extra to a company like Framework and supporting what they are trying to do. I'm definitely keeping my pre-order and can't wait till I get it.
Batch 13 preorder here. I'm happy to hear the final product doesn't have any massive flaws and maybe some of the issues here are ironed out until Q3 deliveries are sent out. I skipped the GPU as I'm not planning on gaming on it, but unlike other brands I can actually buy the next gen GPU if I need it by then 👌 I'm currently running a mostly broken Surface Book 2, that barely works but could easily be repaired if everything wasn't glued. Can't wait to retire it and get my hands on a working machine that's also user upgradable.
3:25 For anyone asking themselves: yes, a fix for this will be included in newer Framework 16, as it has been announced to come out soon (they said mid-September if I recall correctly). They will even offer the fix for free in the marketplace if you have already bought one before it is added by default!
Love my 13 and cannot wait for the 16! Love that I’ll finally have an upgradable gaming laptop that’s so customizable and cannot wait to get my preorder 😁
Yeah, I really want one but the price is sort of a deal breaker for me right now. I agree with what was said at the end of how they're not gauging and are a small company, but for me, right now, I think I'll wait for the next revision before I think about dropping that much. I am excited for this company and I wish them the best!
I gave my framwork 13" to my grandmother after a year or so of me not using it a lot, mostly because i could not game on it. It has been so easy to provide tech support. I had to replace an 8 dollar USB C module due to an issue of it not charging with it. Not sure if a drop incident caused it, or an issue with trying to force a micro usb into the type c slot may have caused it. but with how many laptops she has gone through, i know with the framework, it's fixable.
I am heading to college in about 6 months and these Framework laptops are seeming like the perfect investment for the next 4-ish years of my life. Everything about a lot of the models are what i would be looking for in a laptop
Honestly, it's a bit expensive for college, but so are Macbooks - and my university is full of them. Also, I had my Asus laptop's battery die a few days ago in my 4th year of university (purchased right before my 1st year), and I would have liked it if I didn't have to send it for repair for a couple of weeks to a sketchy partner company (really bad reviews), to buy a 2nd hand salvaged one (which I did), or to order "new" but sketchy batteries from unknown places. Having new spare parts made available by their first party store is a big reason why I'll probably get one of these when I'm done with my current laptop.
@@leonrowell, a guy in college might want to game a little. Having a laptop that can be used as a gaming machine as well as for studying(removing gpu and making it lighter to take it with you) seems not bad. On a MacBook you can just...take it with you to look cool?
I'm already in college in engineering and my 2017 HP Spectre x360 with a 940MX GPU isn't really cutting it anymore, I got in the preorder line and I'm looking forward to getting my Framework Laptop 16 as part of Batch 3.
You're lucky to have Frameworks available; I bought a Dell laptop that's given me so many problems for my first year of college, only for the first Framework to come out 6 months later
I gave up and got Asus TUF A16 instead, for 1500,-Euros. It was like 2500+ for Framework which is insanely overpriced, and this is said by IT guy using overpriced Apple stuff daily.
It looks fun until you realized that the modularity is not as a big deal that it seems. Yeah its nice to have but once you spec it, you probably wont change it. And the parts are also expensive when or if you want to replace them.
At first i thought, how could any employee honestly review a laptop when his or her boss is influenced by how well the device performs in the review. Then I realized that we're talking about Alex here. See Alex, my friends, is always fair, as he was in this video. But he also is going to tell you what sucks on a laptop (or car; oh definitely on cars :), even in a sponsored video. So yeah, of course he would tell us what sucks about the framework 16. He just did it in a more delicate way than usual. And we viewers appreciate that level of candor.
I can't tell you how excited I am to see Framework really delivering! I want one so bad as well, but I can't justify the cost.. If it was actually 1399$ as I first believed when going to build one, I thought that would be worth it 100%. Except it wasn't 1399$.. My final build ended up over 2000$ and I would've had to build the dang thing myself. Maybe it's a little too early for me yet, but rest assured, If prices go down in the future thanks to manufacturing efficiency or demand (think Tesla), I will be the happiest man ever to participate in this revolutionary consumer experience!
When Framework had hinge issues they just put out an improved hinge part you could swap in, if LTT was able to improve the keyboard significantly with just thermal pads placing support on the mid plate, I don't see why Framework couldn't just put out a stiffer mid plate.
26yrs old and did my taxes for the first time. Getting an ok return, and the timing for a highly detailed video about high end systems couldn’t be more perfect ❤ Might not pick up a laptop but it’s an informative video
I built one with the R7 and a GPU, 16gb of ram and a couple of basic adaptors at just over GB£2k, no storage or OS. Very expensive but if you upgrade over time instead of buying new then it may well be a comparable price.
That's assuming the upgrades will actually be available and remotely reasonably priced which I just don't see. Considering their upgrade costs and limited options thus far I don't see why the GPU will be any different. A $700--1K upgrade cost on a 1K laptop makes 0 sense when you're likely going to be upgrading every 3 years when the battery is already starting to fail. IMO the "upgradability" is more of a marketing gimmick than anything else.
@@AlexlfmThe main boards that cost more than $800 are the high-end boards, the completed laptop that costs $1400 uses the low end board, It's almost like upgrading to a much higher spec costs a lot more than buying the cheaper spec, this is a very shocking revelation
@@the_undead It’s still 2/3rds of the price no matter the spec for a machine that costs a good 30% over equivalent specs to begin with. It doesn’t make financial sense especially when the rest of the machine (ie the screen) is of rather poor quality anyways. You can throw it out and get an entirely new laptop for the same price as buying a framework and an upgrade. It’s plagued by the same fundamental issue as MXM parts.
@@Alexlfm I don't mind paying a little more money for a novel idea and good customer aftercare. Being able to talk to the guy who designed whatever part is giving me trouble and helping to solve it not only for me but for everyone else behind me downstream... Well it's kinda how opensource software works too.
Honestly I'm really glad to hear the trackpad sounds that high quality. I've literally had the trackpad on all 3 of my last $1000+ laptops die within weeks or months (or just never worked properly at all) and one of the main reasons I preordered a Framework 16 was because I can have the confidence that *even if* the trackpad craps out I can easily replace or fix it rather than throwing out an entire machine because a $40 part failed.
I just wish they had better GPU options, I would honestly be very interested in it if it had a full power 4080/4090 mobile or 7900m, but a 100W 7700S is just far too low end for me, here's hoping they eventually make an 18" desktop replacement size laptop that supports high end GPUs as to me that's ultimately the most important part and without a high end GPU a laptop is kind of pointless for me.
@@HXRDWIREDGaming That's like telling someone who needs a bicycle to get a pickup truck, two different use cases, I have a gaming desktop, I also need a gaming laptop and I'm not willing to compromise with low end hardware on my laptop, I have a 7900XTX in my desktop and an RTX 3080 in my laptop, when it's time to get a new laptop I'll want something in the same tier range.
To each their own, but I personally don't understand this perspective. If you need a high end GPU, you should probably have a similarly high-end external display to plug into, whether for gaming or productivity. If you are using a high-end external display, you are basically using the laptop as a more expensive and less powerful desktop, with extra components (battery, keyboard, display...) you are paying for and not using. Maybe you travel a lot and need to use it on the go - but then, portability is a concern, I don't know anyone doing a lot of traveling and taking their laptop anywhere who wants an 18" 10lb laptop. And we circle back to the display, a 4090 mobile GPU is wasted on even an 18" 1440p/144hz (or similar) IPS panel. Meanwhile a 4K resolution is wasted on an 18" size. Not to mention, nobody is using the laptop keyboard and trackpad to game, so if you're using it for portable gaming, now you're carrying all these peripherals too... I just don't see how "desktop replacement laptops" make sense anymore. Smaller, lighter, more efficient designs like this, which are still plenty powerful, are far more practical for the overwhelming majority of laptop use cases, including as a sole or primary device.
@@thanorodd5663 I'm not going to drag my 34" monitor around with my, that's the point of a laptop, to use in varied places, my laptop is never used at a desk, when I'm at my desk I use my desktop, my laptop however gets used a ton, arguably more than the desktop for gaming. Personally I don't get the point of low power ultralight laptops, to me they seem completely worthless as 95% of my use case for a laptop requires a strong GPU, either for gaming or 3d cad work, if I'm doing something that doesn't require the GPU power like browsing the web then 9 times out of 10 I'm just using my phone.
If they could make a super cheap base model i could see this set up being really useful for high schools with BYOD or laptop programs. Start junior year with a cheap basic computer then puchase upgrades in senior years to improve the device. Plus having instructions and easily installable components makes repairs so much easier for the techs.
MXM cards were great... it's how I kept my old Sager laptop relevant well past it's prime until the motherboard died. Glad to see we have even more modularity!
This is such an interesting product, probably would wait 3-5 years down the line to see if the company survive (and grow, hopefully), and continue with their promise of swapable graphic cards
@@SamSB250 funny that I now have pixel 6a after jumping from zenfone. I will tell you that my zenfone was more reliable than my pixel, it was just more simple to use. With pixel the battery isnt as good, and they implement many "adaptive" features to improve battery life, but it affects the usability of the phone, so I end up turning off the adaptive features. Also my pixel gets overheat more often
Buy now be happy for the next 3-5 years hope to see them around if they are do another upgrade and be set for a good while. And once your slowing down check back on them if they arnt around I’m sure they released stuff after you bought and do one last upgrade. You still got your money worth since you can sell the old parts and put that towards the new saving you even more money then buying a new laptop. Not counting all the projects you can do with the old board and gpu. Hell you can even part out your laptop if they failed and after your done with it and make back a lot since a lot of people will keep there’s and just keep fixing it. But i highly doubt they will fail in the next 10 years unless every company releases this style of laptop.
This is literally the only new product I will buy, when I say this I mean it. For the past 5 years I've made it a personal rule to only buy used phones, used laptops, used vehicles, used PC and server parts, and used appliances.
Honestly, the fact there's a company *doing* modular laptops is a good push for more competition, for both future modular laptops and "traditional" laptops, as I'm currently daily driving a G14 so I'm excited to see what's down the line for possibly new modularity, I don't use the HDMI port all that often for instance so having a way to replace that with more USB ports would save me carrying a hub.
The display properties, uniformity aside, are actually the killer app on this laptop. A 16x10 1600P 165Hz VRR panel with serious color accuracy is not easy to accomplish.
@@joeykeilholz925 Name one other laptop cheaper than this that has the following screen specs: 16x10, 2560x1600, 500 nits, 100% DCI-P3 coverage, MATTE, 165Hz, VRR, and all of this with a Delta E less than 2 when calibrated.
It also has pretty bad reaction times with 11 ms white to black and 14.6ms gray50 to gray80 which is at best a true 90 hz and at worst 69 hz panel @@joeykeilholz925
The crazy part is, a $1500 MacBook Pro 14” M3 smokes it until the framework hits $2000 price range. Then the M3 Pro and Max start to really hurt it. It’s a very weak product when every issue is followed up with “but if you do this work around, it’s not as big of a problem.” No one buys a product and starts thinking about workarounds to make it useable.
I got one and it actually is my favorite ever windows based laptop. It is so easy to upgrade parts. To framework: A small little hard case to store the numpad or two of the alternate parts you can put on the left or the right of the keyboard (depending on what you are using) would be quite nice.
If only this was also a 2-in-1 with touchscreen and stylus it would be an instant buy for me. It's hard enough finding a 2-in-1 with dedicated GPU, so a modular approach to building my own would be amazing!
I really wanted to buy a Framework laptop, but sadly, they don't ship to Japan. I needed a new one for work and couldn't wait for the 16 or for them to figure out international shipping, so I had to go with something else instead 😢
Lenovo had the Ultrabay modular system ages ago, which allowed you to add a secondary GPU in SLI! Unfortunately, they never really committed to the idea, which meant those modules were really hard to come by even before they were quickly discontinued.
Lenovo always does really cool stuff then just drops the idea entirely. I just bought a legion go handheld from them and so far it looks like updates and support are great so fingers crossed they support it for a couple years.
Yeah exactly! Weird they did no mention of it whatsoever. They where very easy to install or swap, was on the fence of buying one but waited to see how Lenovo would support them, turns out they did not lmao Edit: I think it got discontinued because of poor timing, being as small as a cd drive they came out just before Nvidia's (M)obile GPU's where being replaced by lower TDP desktop equivalents, which needed more cooling and faster lane speeds
I can't wait for framework to launch in Sweden. I really am excited to see what the future holds for this brand, having the ability to swap parts with ease is amazing and I wish more brands would embrace this. I kind of miss the 18650 based battery packs but since people prefer thinner laptops nowadays I guess we'll have to suffer with the flatpacks... :D Those LED panels look amazing too, totally "useless" I am sure but who doesn't love LEDs? Would've liked a little more info on what they can do in the review though.
I‘m pretty sure Framework said in their shipping updates, that the press models, they sent to reviewers, still had some minor issues that would be fixed, when they get to public release. So one can hope, the keyboard flex and panel overlap won‘t be a problem, once customers get their hands on one of these beauties.
The speakers, keyboard flex- even if fixable, the panel gap requiring electrical tape, and small track pad are honestly deal breakers for me on a 16" keyboard. I appreciate the honesty though, and will hope these are addressed on a V2 a year later
Some of it is likely to be addressed in the coming months as they send out preorders. Like with the 13 hinges and chassis flex, they made updates relatively sickly and switched manufacturing over to the new versions while offering those new parts to people who still had the old ones. Still a solid business concept and worth a few minor, miniscule gripes!
Sell your old graphics card the easy way and offset the cost of your new card at bit.ly/JawaLTTJan24
Truly a brilliant investment
Yeah, I might do that
somehow im 4th
im so excited
never been this early
3:25 14:45 15:20
As an update to these points, Framework has just recently sent out an email to their Framework 16 preorder holders in which they specifically call out these issues/concerns stating that a color gamut concern will be tackled via a driver update that press units didn't ship with, the display alignment issue will be fixed for consumer units simply because to get press units shipped, they bypassed that particular step of quality control in the manufacturing process, and finally they acknowledged the keyboard deck deflection and noted the work around deployed by LTT and will be investigating ways of improving the rigidity of the deck and if a new revision must be made, they will make the improvements and ship the necessary parts required to deploy the fix to customers who's units have already shipped.
Overall, love to see this response from Framework, it just further illustrates their care for the product as well as their customers and shows that they don't shy away from taking into account user/reviewer criticism.
Someone should pin this
Pin this please😢
ayo pin this
honestly, it takes balls for a company to do this. big respect to framework
Honestly a laptop that comes WITH the screwdriver to open it shows framework has some balls. VERY COOL!
Is a sexy driver for what it is too.
FW has ALWAYS delivered their laptops with a combination screwdriver/spudger. I've used mine to open up my laptop on multiple occasions - on a plane, at the airport, at work, in an Uber, hell, even at a restaurant. LOL.
I mean, when it costs THAT much, i would say it's the bare minimum you would expect.
Yeah, but now I've got the framework driver, the fairphone driver, I'm going to end up with my desk drawer full of free throw away drivers...
@@JohnHughesChampignynever know, when you will need one tho
To echo what Jake said in the end about living with non-ideal keyboard and display:
My Framework 13 AMD arrived with one always-on red pixel right in the middle of the screen. That wasn’t great, but, what I noticed was that I was not _super_ mad about it, because, if it were any other laptop, there would be nothing I could do except for returning it, while with the Framework I could keep the laptop and decide what to do later - in the worst case buy a new display myself and replace it. So that’s a big shift in mentality when you know that, even if something is not perfect, you can and, in fact, are encouraged to fix it.
(I ended up contacting the support, asked them nicely, and, even though their official warranty only covers 2+ always on pixels, they were kind enough to send me a new display, installing which took like 10 minutes and now my laptop is absolutely perfect. Shout out to Framework’s support!)
not to mention even if you had another brand laptop with 20+ pixels missing entirely, covered under warranty, out of the box, you'd spend at least a month haggling with customer "support" just trying to get the screen replaced only to have them ship you an entire new laptop. god forbid you have data on there.
@@animal579good point about the data! I was thinking, even if Framework doesn’t send a new display, yes, I still can return the laptop if I want, and I’ll just pull my SSD out and throw it straight into another laptop.
LTT won't pin this
I think you should have returned it. Maybe EU life spoiled me, but that's your right to have the device you paid for.
@@helloukw You probably haven't pressed "Read more" on my original comment...
the fact that most negatives mentioned by Alex were followed up by quick mod-fixes is awesome. So excited about this thing
Tho at the same time why would a REVIEWER would be suggesting those.
@@coc_champs because who else would? they've got them early and can find little issues and fixes like this.
@@coc_champs They always recommend quick and dirty mods on this channel. Are you new here or just daft?
@@tapsofosiris3110 Woah! calm down man and stop assuming things, you might be so veteran to this channel that you have stopped watching other review. As I don't think what I said was wrong REVIEWS are supposed to tell viewers about the pros and cons of the product so that people can decide whether to buy it or not. I felt it wasn't right so pointed it out. I wasn't being negative or anything.
@coc_champs Well, it's not like LTT just didn't mention the problem because the issue could be alleviated by a quick hack fix.
Also, while there are definitely issues with the laptop, the fact that the laptop itself makes such mods to ameliorate said issues easy should definitely be mentioned. Plus, the upgradability of the laptop makes swapping new, improved parts such as a better display significantly easier. These points should definitely be given merit, and leaving them out would be highly disingenuous of them.
So yes, they should've mentioned these fixes.
5FT1/L1/N-US is some next-level trolling. Nice work dbrand!
Damn, i didn't even notice! Nice catch.
@@karigori6415 nice catch? Linus literally mentioned AND pointed at it with his finger. Did you skip that part?
@@jezuconz7299 I may be stupid 😔
@@karigori6415 hey at least you owned it
This feels like a laptop from 15 years ago in all the best ways.
Removable storage, ram, replaceable battery and (semi) modular cards? Definitely going to get one.
they need to go thicker and bring back the dual hotswap batteries of the PowerBook
Lenovo Legion has had removable storage, RAM and batteries for years. Which easily made them my go to for my laptops
My 5 year old Alienware has swappable ram, storage and I’ve replaced the battery on it wtf have you been looking at
@@battleboat12 Most alienware laptops have soldered memory, he has been looking at 90 percent of laptops.
@@battleboat12*5 year old*
They should really do reviews more often like this with different team members reviewing different parts of the product. It makes for a very interesting review which we would otherwise not get.
Thoroughly agree! It also helps mitigate the less obvious biases that people have. Like obviously Linus is biased because he's invested in Framework, but if they were reviewing a Lenovo and one of the team just really liked Lenovo then it could affect how the present the information. It's less of a big deal, but a nice bonus.
Also, this format was just enjoyable to watch.
Isn't that what short circuit is for.
Also it means that they can look more into the specifics of the hardware, get more knowledge about it. Of course the team members should also know how a computer works overall, but they would more easily be able to spot problems when they are mostly into one kind of hardware and not a one catch it all :D
this is just a glorified ad
I agree. Different people see and value different things.
This feels like the best laptop review iv watched on this channel in ages. Having multiple people from the different departments deliver the information was surprisingly engaging. It did not feel like an overload of endless talking from 1 person, which is a great shift in strategy! Hope it sticks!
Yes, the usual reviews feel very shallow and not terribly useful with "it should last this much, I guess" and brief Valheim benchmarks. The entire channel has noticeably gotten better as of late.
I wouldnt say they are shallow reviews. But every youtuber has the ability to review something. Not many have a staff head count like Linus. I think this gives him a unique space to do things way different.
@@Walking_Adventures691 The fact that he is pretty much the biggest youtuber, by far, in tech means I'd expect at least a baseline level of throughness on their reviews, which has so far been largely absent. This is much better than usual.
I mean at least that means all the publicly made changes are having a positive effect and we are getting some super vids out.
It's fucking commercial
For the people put off by current problems this was the same for the Framework 13. There's going to be concerns or issues that will get fixed in the next iteration of it. If you like the company but don't see yourself buying the product than just wait until it inevitably improves as they get feedback.
I see it on the same level as the Steam Deck. This is a beta/early access product and it will take some time for some issues to be ironed out.
@@indigomizumi That's why I waited for getting a Framework until the 2nd generation. The 1st generation of any company's new product segment is always going to have issues.
@@caseymurray7722If I ever get the money I definitely want a Framework 16 but that won't be for a while anyway. So by the time I'd have one many issues would likely be sorted.
framework 13'' missing with the parts cost 500 dolar,while you can buy for same money,complete laptop :)))..
@@caseymurray7722not the sd
As a suggestion, the laptop order on the vertical axis should be maintained between graphs, so that we don't have to keep looking for the Framework laptop in a different place each time. :)
I think that's the point, as they are in order of highest frame rate to make it easier to tell the relative performance.
I do think it would be good to have some other way to tell the different models apart at a glance apart from just the name though, like different colours or icons for each one. That might help with the issue of having to find the location of each model in the different graphs.
6:20 I had to pause for over a minute when Jake removed the module and plugged it in the GPU. That is just, wow.
and you still get to use the usb c port behind it
@@renchesandsordsabsolutely insane engineering
Insane AND common sense. We've been so used to throwaway laptops that this is what the opposite of corporate greed looks like. @@HappySlappyFace
corporate greed? You really think this is gonna be different? This laptop costs way too much for its specs and modules are gonna cost another arm and a leg. You are way too gullible to think that it’s about anything but money
I laughed my ass off, it just makes too much sense
Props to whoever conceptualized the flow of this video - from the multiple presenters, the graphs, and the writing. I feel like this is how all scripted reviews from ltt should look. It's like an ltt + tq + sc video rolled into one. Just add a few MA-inspired b-rolls and it's the full LMG experience. :)
I love when the videos feel like this. It reminds me of the last build guide you'll ever need. Such good LTT vibes!
Ltt owns a part of this laptop company. Everything they said and did is worthless. Imagine other reviewers watching this and seeing that's its not just acceptable but people applaude it. Why shouldn't pc gamer own a piece of a gaming studio? Why shouldn't gamers nexus aquire a piece of noctua? This garbage hurts all consumers. I hate this so much. This community is such a disappointment
yeah i'm glad @Linus Tech Tips hearted this comment, they NEED to hear it. This was soooooooooo easy to watch. I'm never going to buy a laptop in my near future but the way it was presented... man it was compelling and so watchable! DO MORE OF THIS STYLE VIDEO!!!
@@spraynardkruger6426 Seems like your instincts are right but not sure if that’s the right conclusion to draw here. I think it’s only Linus that’s invested in Framework and his business and reputation are probably worth more than a $200K personal investment he made because he loved what the company was doing with right to repair. Not that we should take it at face value, but he’s also said that he basically doesn’t care whether or not Framework is ultimately surpassed by a competitor when it comes to thoughtfully designed laptops that prioritize user service/upgradeability, since that was basically the whole point of his investment: force companies to have to compete with Framework by designing w/ repair rather than replacement in mind.
This isn’t an overly flattering review, they clearly have many criticisms as well, and it doesn’t seem like “neutral” reviewers have brought up any major issues which LMG didn’t. I think it might even be the other way around lol.
I love how the justify away the fact you need to mod your $2000 laptop for the keyboard to be serviceable to use
As someone who loves their Framework 13, I'm so glad the 16 seems to be up to the same standards (minus a few things, like the keyboard). 100% a company I want to support
I dunno, watch some of the other videos out for the laptop, they aren't all positive, especially from other big name laptop reviewers
@@FF18Cloud sure, but right to repair is such a major deal; I feel much better with a framework than a comparable "name brand" laptop, but that doesn't mean it's for everybody, and doesn't mean it's perfect
@@PrimedPixelMusic
Right to repair absolutely is a hugely important factor, as is the e-waste reduction. The problem is largely that the benefits are enormously outweight by the cost.
It basically costs twice the price of a gaming laptop of similar specs. So it'd need to last you like a decade or more in order to start being beneficial. So the arguments on ewaste are very limited.
@@Patrick-y4d1z I can't disagree. I was lucky to have found myself in a position where I could afford extra for things like e-waste reduction and right to repair, but you're absolutely right in that there's a lot of work to do with the price
Lmao now you gotta buy the new one to have the new features oops
The modular nature and potential longevity of this laptop seem very promising. Just like you said, barring any major issue, this could very well be the last laptop I'd need to buy!
I've got the Framework 13, and I agree with Jake's statements at the end. There are some things (especially the speakers) which aren't up to the standard I'm used to from previous laptops, but instead of being filled with regret, I'm just a little bummed and waiting until better speakers are released. And while I might go "this thing was better on my old laptop", I also then have to remind myself "the old laptop I needed a replacement for because I can't open the chassis to change the battery and clear out the dust that's causing it to overheat". I'm glad Framework seems to still be thriving, and I hope it grows to a size where more third party modules become available, maybe starting with some better speakers 😛
There are some third party modules already, but they are small run or open source hardware projects developed by hackers and enthusiasts. Not everyone will have a use for Spacehuhn's ESP32 module, for instance.
I'd imagine that most people use earbuds or a headset regardless, so speakers were probably not a priority for the design.
"Not only because I invested my own money and want this company to succeed." I appreciate him starting the video on that note for those who don't already know.
Idk about Canada, but it is illegal in a lot of countries if you don´t disclose your conflicts of interests or if a social media post is sponsored. While I feel like Linus would do it anyways, because he cares about being trustworthy and not being malicious, there might be laws that make him do it anyways.
@@Rocky712_ yep that's about what he said in the "I invested into framework" vid
He's putting his money where his mouth is. It is honest and lawful.
@@Rocky712_ Same in the states
He is legally obligated to do that, so I guess it's cool he follows the laws that would be very easy to verify
Love hearing directly from the Labs testers! Jon did great!
That praise is too high. He did fine in parts but a lot of it was just terrible and hard to watch. I gave up on the video at his point as I was losing the will to live, and I'm sure the stats back this. I had to come back hours later to watch the rest of the video.
Ltt owns a part of this laptop company. Everything they said and did is worthless. Imagine other reviewers watching this and seeing that's its not just acceptable but people applaude it. Why shouldn't pc gamer own a piece of a gaming studio? Why shouldn't gamers nexus aquire a piece of noctua? This garbage hurts all consumers. I hate this so much. This community is such a disappointment.
@@spraynardkruger6426Look, they have more than enough people in the company to receive, test, write, review, produce and edit this video without Linus ever seeing their feedback until it goes live on the channel.
You don't have to agree, but I believe they did an excellent job of giving honest feedback. And most of their feedback was then backed by workarounds in the event that they discovered something undesirable
Linus, personally, has stake in Framework - Linus Media Group, does not.
You can’t hate it that much, because here you are watching and commenting.
@@spraynardkruger6426 and? they specifically list that bias, its not secret, they put it up front. They also didnt just give it a perfect review. Everyone has biases, the important thing is to be upfront so we can see where they are coming from
That hack that Jake came up with in order to not carry around another dongle was actually really funny lmao
This is absolutely amazing to see. I have taken apart and reassembled hundreds of laptops. My favorite were the older Dell tough books. Some HP laptops, and Acer had some OK laptops. This is a whole new ball game
5:49 Full size DisplayPort is very rare in gaming laptops, even mini DP is uncommon, so felt a bit weird to go after them this hard on that.
You guys probably aren't looking for random ideas, but a live fourier graph during the speaker comparison would be really helpful to visualize the difference.
Great review, great laptop! Really excited about the future of framework! (Typing this from my AMD 13)
I would love this. I hope they see this because this is the most objective way they could measure speakers for us, and given they're striving for that with Labs, they really should.
Definitely in the plans, just need our acoustic chamber to be built first!
@@LinusTechTips This is why you're still respected
Just replace the speakers !
Wait for BOSE etc to release a module !
How about a graph to explain why I'd want speakers on a laptop anyway? What are they for? Making me a target of violence in the local coffee shop or on a train? Intruding on other people's space? Getting worse sound than cheap earbuds? Sure, it's very impressive how good they can get the sound on bad speakers stuck in bad situations but that doesn't mean it's worth doing in all cases.
Framework yet again showing us why they are the boss of laptops. Their commitment to providing repairable laptops is absolutely amazing.
The biggest thing for me is that Framework is banking on the fact that you can buy this one chassis and replacement components will cost you about 3/4 the price of buying another laptop in 2 to 4 years time.
See, the only reason we even demand greatness from laptops today is because they can't change after you spec them out. Can't swap memory, can't swap SSD, gotta pick the right display size and type, all that stuff. Fair model, but when Apple demands hundreds of dollars for RAM, storage and features (and knowing WinPC laptop makers follow where Apple goes), Framework's alternative looks better by comparison.
@@FlyingCIRCU175 The Apple comparison is pretty harsh, but accurate.
Laptop makers doing thin/ ultra-thin probably do need to solder in ram and maybe the ssd, but in a chassis with similar thickness to the Framework, mostly are still upgradable.
then having to buy those 30 doller ports for usb ethernet while if it was soldered on you could replace them for 1 doller@@FlyingCIRCU175
@@FlyingCIRCU175 but why would you not want to buy the F19 in 4 years time with an all new chassis?
I've been using a framework 13 for a year now, and I love it. For me, the flexibility of being able to choose my IO and replace individual parts, is revolutionary, especially since I bought my laptop for work, and am totally responsible for it's price. The break on my last laptop that cost me $1300 to replace the laptop, would've cost literally $60 if I had a framework at the time. That is revolutionary for me, and all the bendyness or mess that goes along with a modular laptop is not even a question for me - this is unbelievably worth any headache. I want the 16", but I'm of course sticking with the 13 until I turn it into a little thin client one day, like 5 years from now, and then, it'll still be useful to me.
Until you want a Intel CPU or Nvidia CPU, then its back to the drawing board.
@@freedomearthmoon1 Um, the Framework 13 is available with either Intel or AMD CPUs, so I have no doubt that the FW 16 will get that option in due time as well, since the FW 13 started out as Intel only! I have an early one of those by the way, already over 2 years old... and I'm about to replace the existing 11th gen Intel version mainboard with the 13th gen Intel version!
@@scottrabinow2773 I've been following Frameworks progress and the first laptops offered Intel or AMD CPU's from day 1 but with integrated graphics.
Now, it's 100% AMD, 1 CPU and 1 GPU. Granted, powerful options. I'm a video editor and don't care about fps in video games. Intel & Nvidia integrates better with most editing software. AMD was in second place so long most software was built to run better on Intel and Nvidia platforms. Its unfortunate but true, its also another reason AMD cost less. Many consumers don't care about fps in Hogwarts. The myopic testing done on GPU's on youtube benefits gamers but that's about it.
framework 13 '' cost 500 dolar,and a laptop with everything on it is already 500 dolar,and if you upgrade to nvdia video card,you need to find a card that suport the laptop frame,go and search for parts thats suitable for this laptop until that time,just use,intel embedded gpu with no performance for gaming,only watch youtube and some movies :)))...
@@rembrandrembrand I guess they don't do the math. The 16" 7840HS+1T+32G+P3/165Hz one is $1600 while I can buy a same config new 16 laptop except sRGB/90Hz for $600... almost near 3 of it... really a first world problem
As a person who recently threw out 5 old laptops that I accumulated have been kicking around my garage for a long time, the frame work appeals to me for the same reason as Jake said, it could be the last laptop I buy. Yes it’ll be expanded or upgraded in the future but recycling an old GPU or using the screen for something else after it’s useful life is by far better than binning a complete machine
until there's an innovative chassis in 2025 and framework owner cry some rivers 😂
@@noliebetweenus in that case, buy the new chassis and put your old components in them! most of them should work, and if they don't, that's a major oversight.
@EZX280 I'd argue that this isn't a fair claim as the internals for the Framework 13 won't fit in the new and innovative F 16 chassis. I think it's unlikely that Framework would make breaking changes to the chassis without good reason, since their business model is the "green and repairable laptop company", but if you consider the F 16 to be an upgrade to the F 13, it is a breaking change.
You’ll just need to replace the motherboard to get a new socket for that new cpu you want and that will come with new ram tech so you’ll have to replace that too.
For the price of an entire new laptop.
But you’ll still have your old crappy battery and outdated 500nits screen
I have owned multiple very modular desktops. And almost never have I done just one simple upgrade of a component.
Almost every upgraded turned out that building an entire new system would be way more interesting.
I don’t get how that would be different with a laptop.
You can make laptops modular with an external display and and external pci-e box and a sound card and an external mic and webcam and keyboard and mouse all connected to a Thunderbolt + usb hub
@@noliebetweenus who cares, no reason to buy another computer just to follow a different design. None of my electronics is current, and I don't desire to chase the newest trend. If I could upgrade my 2nd Gen Intel 15" dell laptop i absolutely would, I love that thing, but i can't...
Jake was a great presenter in this format, really confident, great vid.
I don't remember seeing a review like this by Jake, and honestly, I have to give him props. I really enjoyed his delivery
Came to the comments after that ending segue looking for this.
Jake at the end summed up my thoughts on the laptop pretty well. Sure you're paying a premium for a similarly spec'd laptop, but if I my screen gets busted... Or if the battery just ain't cutting it anymore... I'm not out another $2k for a whole new laptop. And same for wanting to upgrade.
Exactly. One repair/upgrade later, and the modularity has paid for itself.
Considering that a new laptop that you bought because the specs arent up to your demand anymore, gives you a brand new chassis, a brand new screen, keyboard, trackpad, battery, etc. "for free" minus the money you can get by selling of your old device, I am not sure about this. A quick and dirty excel sheet I set up made it look like it takes more like 3 or 4 "upgrade cycles" to warrant the high price...
And that would mean that you'd be okay with using THIS relatively bad screen for the next decade or so, does not include money spent on new batteries and such. Considering those "non-essential" upgrades, we're looking more at 4-6 upgrade cycles or in other words: around 20 years of usage. This is not a financially smart choice.
@@WoodsSooperDooperShop while there's definitely some people out there who would, 90% of people aren't going to sell their old laptop, iyt's going in a storage bin or trash can. Also, if the issue is only that the laptop isn't fast enough anymore, you don't need a new trackpad, keyboard, monitor etc. That's a lot of waste for no gain
Replacing a laptop battery is not difficult.
@@WoodsSooperDooperShop my exact thought i have to buy atleast 3 laptops for it to be worth it, and at that point id rather just get a new one each time with new everything, and prob get more out of selling the old one then i would my framework parts. i want a a framework but the cost needs to come to come out to 2 or less laptop purchases. and me personally if im getting it for gaming i also need to see a 120hz screen on it and nvidia gpus
Linus actually inspired the idea of everything on laptops being modular. It’s so when he inevitably drops it and something breaks it can just be replaced
Ehh. He has the platform to preach it loudly, but modular laptops have been a dream for many before.
@@ClosedOpennessWhoooosh.
Oh look another template ‘joke’ about Linus dropping stuff
@@easymodegamer501* The sound of Linus's laptop heading directly for the ground *
It'll explode like an old Nokia phone, then you just click it back together and it's fine
3 sponsor spots during a product showcase plus a ltt screwdriver shoutout.
I use a Framework mainboard in the CoolerMaster desktop case as a bit of a homelab server. One thing to mention is that the expansion cards aren't exactly cheap when you buy a set of them. The gigabit ethernet card is especially steep at around $50 CAD but the display cards and microSD reader are $25 CAD each and the USB-A and USB-C cards are $12 each. All together, you can wind up spending more than what a good UGreen hub costs with more ports. Not a huge issue, just be aware that you're going to pay more for flexibility.
I think they sell refurbished one's too for cheap.
maybe chinese market is ideal for this company but not in europe or in usa,parts wil be expensive in europe and usa,in china is the parts cheap actualy even in china they cant sell this product,in china laptops are cheaper then europe and usa,this project wil be dead soon,last time there was a modulair cell phone even with out seriouse investors the phone was dead..
@@rembrandrembrand This is the problem when you think everything is about price. Framework is doing just fine. They're not a budget brand; They're NOT competing on price, they're competing on flexibility and upgradability.
For example, I run a home server using a Framework mainboard. I was able to buy the mainboard and a cooler master case designed for it without needing to buy the whole laptop. I'll be able to upgrade the mainboard later without needing new RAM or a SSD.
I really hope this becomes more common moving forward, having the option to EASILY upgrade notebooks would be HUGE for me
This felt like one of the best put together ltt vids I've ever seen. Flows seamlessly, review has personality while sticking to the hard facts, and I felt surprised at the end of the vid when I saw that this was 18 minutes long.
Ofc its Alex
Ltt owns a part of this laptop company. Everything they said and did is worthless. Imagine other reviewers watching this and seeing that's its not just acceptable but people applaude it. Why shouldn't pc gamer own a piece of a gaming studio? Why shouldn't gamers nexus aquire a piece of noctua? This garbage hurts all consumers. I hate this so much. This community is such a disappointment
@spraynardkruger6426 LTT doesn't own anything in regards to framework, linus specifically does
@@spraynardkruger6426 Linus declares in the very beginning of this review that he himself is a stake holder not LMG, thus the reason of him having his employees give the product an honest review free of potential bias. There was complete transparency I personally applaud Linus for his decision to give a large sum of his money to a small startup with ideals he believes in and having the integrity to not allow his investment to skew the review. If he truly was untrustworthy there wouldn't have been as much negative things said about the product and the ending would have left with a high recommendation to buy the product instead of being much more in the gray
@@spraynardkruger6426 Did you even watch the video? It's LINUS who has the investment not LTT as a company. Linus has put his own personal money into Framework, Luke and the others haven't. If you're gonna talk about the video and critique the channel and community at least do the smart thing and watch the video oh my lord
On your blender benchmarks you should include whether its a cpu or gpu render
gpu renders are generally far quicker and nvidia has an optimization/hardware advantage, which two rendering methods:
a) cuda rendering
b) optix rendering, which utilizes nvidia rtx hardware ray tracing capabilities
Im sure its cpu renders here because, well, if it was gpu the nvidia powered laptop would have won quite apparent
anyways, would love to see that distinction made in the graphs
As a Blender user I'd also like to know some of the settings used for the render as that would be more informative to me especially if I am considering purchasing the product.
A great video series idea to me would be have each of the three from this review finding the laptop that "feels" the closest to them, then filming a series of trying to do stuff like replace a wifi card or keyboard etc. Things that are theoretically possible to be done to the laptop. Then doing the same task for the framework laptop
Finally JAKE IS BACK!!! Where has he been? I love his server and content delivery.
#LongLiveJake!
I was all on the hype-train, but then I realized there is no battery module. As someone who works in IT and business, extended battery life is crucial for travel and on-site support. Chucking two battery and a GPU module into my backpack would save me so much time and effort when traveling.
Please Framework, make a hot-swappable battery!
Just get a PD powerbank, you should be fine
Damm this is a good idea, reminds me of my first phone. It kept dying mid day as I used intensive apps the whole day. So it dies, just switch the battery. No need to wait for a slow power bank.
There are 100W USBC power banks. Currently use one for my laptop when on the go
@@IllIlIIlIllI Alkaline? Bro, what decade are you living in? Nobodies used an alkaline battery in a laptop in years 😂
I picked TUF A16 for best battery life among all similar laptorps - it was lie as always. 90w battery barely lasts 6-7h with Ghelper tweaked to max for lowest 7-9w consumption. I solved it by bying Anker 100Wh powerbank /7+ more hours/. I am speaking about Outlook+Firefox 2-3 tabs here so minimal usage. W10/11 just eats battery like crazy, Linux with 6.6 kernel is the same 6h. its tragedy after using M1 Macbook /17+ hours usage/.
We have two FW13s, and have been very impressed by them. My wife had never done any form of computer assembly before, and she was able to assemble her DIY FW13 with only the smallest of guidance.
I love what this company is doing and hope they have great success.
Those temps are the most impressive part, seriously.
Why was this not a recommended video for me? I only found it by accident. This is a video I've been waiting for for a long time.
Same. I found it after search for "Framework Laptop 16".*
They forgot to mention that the dGPU is not meant to be removed, like, at all (only for upgrading). Last time I checked, the connector was rated for just 50 inserts/removals, so it's not like you can just remove it when you are, for example, taking it for classes, and plugging it in at home when you want to game.
Incorrect.
The connector that Framework's connector is based on is rated for 50 cycles, however Framework's connector has been redesigned to support more (although Framework has not yet given a specific number).
Here is the official statement from Framework's CEO on Framework's forums responding to someone that said the same 50 cycles number:
"That is the rated durability of an off the shelf connector from the same supplier. Two notes on this:
1. We’re developing our own semi-custom connector with the supplier specifically to make it better for end-user handling.
2. The cycle life in datasheets is rarely comprehensive. We’ve had instances where the datasheet on a connector (I think it was a pogo connector) said 100 cycles, and we asked the supplier to retest to 2000 cycles and found the connector passed that too."
"We’re developing our own semi-custom connector with the supplier specifically to make it better for end-user handling. The datasheet that people are referencing that states 50 cycles is for an off the shelf connector that Framework Laptop 16 doesn’t ship with."
@@kylereis7854 I compared their design with the one they based on and it's basically identical. I don't see how my statement is untrue, especially because the only ground that Framework has is their word that the amount of cycles in the datasheet is understated. Well, we will see how it goes.
@@_mike You can see the side by side of the connectors at the following link (dots replaced with (dot) to avoid tripping filters:
images (dot) prismic (dot) io/frameworkmarketplace/cfb0c9e9-7045-4e8a-8929-c1c2f16dc867_FW16-connectors-deep-dive-blog-wide-04.jpg?auto=compress,format
The normal connector (left) has the pins exposed, allowing them to easily be caught and damaged.
Framework's connector has the pins more protected that they will only easily bend in the way that they're supposed to bend.
That's a very different connector.
@@_mike TH-cam isn't allowing me to reply with a link to the side by side comparison, however if you search "Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive - Connectors" you can see a side by side comparison of the connectors.
The original connector had the pins completely exposed, allowing them to be easily bent to the side. Framework's connector has the pins surrounded by plastic on most sides, blocking them from being easily bent or getting caught. These are very different designs, definitely not "basically identical" like you claim.
Regardless your claim that "the connector was rated for just 50 inserts/removals" is a untrue as it is not the same connector. Some related connector being rated for only 50 cycles doesn't mean Framework's connector is rated for 50 cycles, especially considering that Framework stated that the reason they redesigned the connector was to improve durability across cycles.
As an advice having a reference for what would be a general or expected good monitor calibration grade (Delta E) appearing highlighted on screen to compare with what the monitor being eviewed got would be awesome!
Not everyone watching reviews actually know this and they would appreciate to see how much the monitor deviates or not from what's considered a good Delta E❤❤
I don’t disagree, but the chances are that the people who really care about that probably already know. That said they used to say it so I don’t really know when or why they stopped.
Preordered a DIY 16 when I learned about them and can't wait for it to arrive. The fact that I can buy what I want without having to settle for the choices the manufacturer made everywhere (yes, the framework requires you to settle for some things too) and then upgrade it later if I want (I don't need the graphics, I just want the extra size and IO for my work laptop with that giant battery) is awesome. Really looking forward to using it for years. Getting it barebones and supplying my own SSD and RAM is icing on the cake.
I actually finally saw a Framework in the wild recently. Couple executive-looking guys were using them in an airport I was at, waiting for their flight. Looks like it's really and truly taking off, when I see more than just online entities and redditors using them!
Already saw the showcase in a previous video but still, I'm really glad they're doing upgradable GPUs. Including it in the list of easy-to-replace things in a laptop unlike before, and potentially making it so popular that other brands would hopefully emulate it. LTT investing in Framework is one of the best things that could've happened in this timeline.
They have really went full desktop-like modularity with this.
Graph data was on point this video, easily digestible. Good stuff labs team/editors.
I seriously admire and appreciate the higher emphasis on objectivity and professionalism in your videos lately, thank you and keep up the great work!
"5FT1/L1/N-US" - gotta love dbrand!
I really like the transparency there and honest review!
I'm surprised I haven't heard about this already. When it's time for a new laptop, this is definitely the direction I'm going. I love the easy upgrading!
I love this approach on letting other members on the team do the review!
It still doesn't quite guarantee an impartial review, though - instead of Linus himself doing the review, now it's people who work for Linus doing the review.
One thing that's probably good to know was how noisy were those fans during the tests. Might be a nitpick they could improve, just like the flex on the keyboard.
I've pre-ordered one, so I get the newsletters. They said that the review units are near-final test units, but some still have noise issues with the fans that they fixed late in development, so you probably won't get reliable info about how loud the fans are from anyone with a pre-release FW16.
I agree with Jake's final thoughts. All of the problems can easily be DIY'ed or upgraded down the road. Plus I don't mind paying a little extra to a company like Framework and supporting what they are trying to do. I'm definitely keeping my pre-order and can't wait till I get it.
I absolutely love the transparency in this episode!
5:35 Call me crazy, but I like the Framework speakers better, they are so much easier on the ears.
Batch 13 preorder here. I'm happy to hear the final product doesn't have any massive flaws and maybe some of the issues here are ironed out until Q3 deliveries are sent out.
I skipped the GPU as I'm not planning on gaming on it, but unlike other brands I can actually buy the next gen GPU if I need it by then 👌
I'm currently running a mostly broken Surface Book 2, that barely works but could easily be repaired if everything wasn't glued. Can't wait to retire it and get my hands on a working machine that's also user upgradable.
The day has come lads
Nice job dubbing in the corrections rather than having them just be on-screen text while the voiceover still says the wrong numbers!
Honestly, this video was very well put together. Good job. I enjoyed.
3:25 For anyone asking themselves: yes, a fix for this will be included in newer Framework 16, as it has been announced to come out soon (they said mid-September if I recall correctly). They will even offer the fix for free in the marketplace if you have already bought one before it is added by default!
Ok, that good to know, ty.
Love my 13 and cannot wait for the 16! Love that I’ll finally have an upgradable gaming laptop that’s so customizable and cannot wait to get my preorder 😁
That battery to power ratio is incredible I definitely will consider getting one when I need a new laptop
Yeah, I really want one but the price is sort of a deal breaker for me right now. I agree with what was said at the end of how they're not gauging and are a small company, but for me, right now, I think I'll wait for the next revision before I think about dropping that much. I am excited for this company and I wish them the best!
Never buy the first model, look at all the issues with the 13 gen 11 Intel motherboard.
Id wait for the second iteration honestly.
Been following the updates on batch 1 for my order cant wait!
I gave my framwork 13" to my grandmother after a year or so of me not using it a lot, mostly because i could not game on it. It has been so easy to provide tech support. I had to replace an 8 dollar USB C module due to an issue of it not charging with it. Not sure if a drop incident caused it, or an issue with trying to force a micro usb into the type c slot may have caused it. but with how many laptops she has gone through, i know with the framework, it's fixable.
6:30 that's actually so smart on frameworks part I was shocked thats awesome
This is honestly one of the best reviews from LTT so far.
I am heading to college in about 6 months and these Framework laptops are seeming like the perfect investment for the next 4-ish years of my life. Everything about a lot of the models are what i would be looking for in a laptop
Honestly, it's a bit expensive for college, but so are Macbooks - and my university is full of them. Also, I had my Asus laptop's battery die a few days ago in my 4th year of university (purchased right before my 1st year), and I would have liked it if I didn't have to send it for repair for a couple of weeks to a sketchy partner company (really bad reviews), to buy a 2nd hand salvaged one (which I did), or to order "new" but sketchy batteries from unknown places. Having new spare parts made available by their first party store is a big reason why I'll probably get one of these when I'm done with my current laptop.
I bought the Framework Laptop 12 DIY edition for uni last year and it has been working great. Just a few weird quirks but it has been great!
@@leonrowell, a guy in college might want to game a little. Having a laptop that can be used as a gaming machine as well as for studying(removing gpu and making it lighter to take it with you) seems not bad.
On a MacBook you can just...take it with you to look cool?
I'm already in college in engineering and my 2017 HP Spectre x360 with a 940MX GPU isn't really cutting it anymore, I got in the preorder line and I'm looking forward to getting my Framework Laptop 16 as part of Batch 3.
You're lucky to have Frameworks available; I bought a Dell laptop that's given me so many problems for my first year of college, only for the first Framework to come out 6 months later
I was gonna order this but then I remebered I don't actually have 2k+ euros lying around lol. It looks so fun
I gave up and got Asus TUF A16 instead, for 1500,-Euros. It was like 2500+ for Framework which is insanely overpriced, and this is said by IT guy using overpriced Apple stuff daily.
It looks fun until you realized that the modularity is not as a big deal that it seems. Yeah its nice to have but once you spec it, you probably wont change it. And the parts are also expensive when or if you want to replace them.
At first i thought, how could any employee honestly review a laptop when his or her boss is influenced by how well the device performs in the review. Then I realized that we're talking about Alex here. See Alex, my friends, is always fair, as he was in this video. But he also is going to tell you what sucks on a laptop (or car; oh definitely on cars :), even in a sponsored video. So yeah, of course he would tell us what sucks about the framework 16. He just did it in a more delicate way than usual. And we viewers appreciate that level of candor.
no fan noise comparison???
I love this, so tempted to pre-order!
honestly, if framework keeps going, this is just incredible and nothing short of that
I can't tell you how excited I am to see Framework really delivering! I want one so bad as well, but I can't justify the cost.. If it was actually 1399$ as I first believed when going to build one, I thought that would be worth it 100%. Except it wasn't 1399$.. My final build ended up over 2000$ and I would've had to build the dang thing myself. Maybe it's a little too early for me yet, but rest assured, If prices go down in the future thanks to manufacturing efficiency or demand (think Tesla), I will be the happiest man ever to participate in this revolutionary consumer experience!
When Framework had hinge issues they just put out an improved hinge part you could swap in, if LTT was able to improve the keyboard significantly with just thermal pads placing support on the mid plate, I don't see why Framework couldn't just put out a stiffer mid plate.
26yrs old and did my taxes for the first time. Getting an ok return, and the timing for a highly detailed video about high end systems couldn’t be more perfect ❤
Might not pick up a laptop but it’s an informative video
I built one with the R7 and a GPU, 16gb of ram and a couple of basic adaptors at just over GB£2k, no storage or OS. Very expensive but if you upgrade over time instead of buying new then it may well be a comparable price.
That's assuming the upgrades will actually be available and remotely reasonably priced which I just don't see. Considering their upgrade costs and limited options thus far I don't see why the GPU will be any different. A $700--1K upgrade cost on a 1K laptop makes 0 sense when you're likely going to be upgrading every 3 years when the battery is already starting to fail. IMO the "upgradability" is more of a marketing gimmick than anything else.
@@AlexlfmThe main boards that cost more than $800 are the high-end boards, the completed laptop that costs $1400 uses the low end board, It's almost like upgrading to a much higher spec costs a lot more than buying the cheaper spec, this is a very shocking revelation
@@the_undead It’s still 2/3rds of the price no matter the spec for a machine that costs a good 30% over equivalent specs to begin with. It doesn’t make financial sense especially when the rest of the machine (ie the screen) is of rather poor quality anyways. You can throw it out and get an entirely new laptop for the same price as buying a framework and an upgrade. It’s plagued by the same fundamental issue as MXM parts.
@@Alexlfm It's almost like the motherboard and CPU is the majority of costs that goes into a laptop, who would have guessed?
@@Alexlfm I don't mind paying a little more money for a novel idea and good customer aftercare. Being able to talk to the guy who designed whatever part is giving me trouble and helping to solve it not only for me but for everyone else behind me downstream... Well it's kinda how opensource software works too.
Honestly I'm really glad to hear the trackpad sounds that high quality. I've literally had the trackpad on all 3 of my last $1000+ laptops die within weeks or months (or just never worked properly at all) and one of the main reasons I preordered a Framework 16 was because I can have the confidence that *even if* the trackpad craps out I can easily replace or fix it rather than throwing out an entire machine because a $40 part failed.
I just wish they had better GPU options, I would honestly be very interested in it if it had a full power 4080/4090 mobile or 7900m, but a 100W 7700S is just far too low end for me, here's hoping they eventually make an 18" desktop replacement size laptop that supports high end GPUs as to me that's ultimately the most important part and without a high end GPU a laptop is kind of pointless for me.
a laptop 4090 doesnt beat a 4080 right?? i mean, if you need horsepower, just get a tower.
@@HXRDWIREDGaming That's like telling someone who needs a bicycle to get a pickup truck, two different use cases, I have a gaming desktop, I also need a gaming laptop and I'm not willing to compromise with low end hardware on my laptop, I have a 7900XTX in my desktop and an RTX 3080 in my laptop, when it's time to get a new laptop I'll want something in the same tier range.
To each their own, but I personally don't understand this perspective. If you need a high end GPU, you should probably have a similarly high-end external display to plug into, whether for gaming or productivity. If you are using a high-end external display, you are basically using the laptop as a more expensive and less powerful desktop, with extra components (battery, keyboard, display...) you are paying for and not using.
Maybe you travel a lot and need to use it on the go - but then, portability is a concern, I don't know anyone doing a lot of traveling and taking their laptop anywhere who wants an 18" 10lb laptop. And we circle back to the display, a 4090 mobile GPU is wasted on even an 18" 1440p/144hz (or similar) IPS panel. Meanwhile a 4K resolution is wasted on an 18" size. Not to mention, nobody is using the laptop keyboard and trackpad to game, so if you're using it for portable gaming, now you're carrying all these peripherals too...
I just don't see how "desktop replacement laptops" make sense anymore. Smaller, lighter, more efficient designs like this, which are still plenty powerful, are far more practical for the overwhelming majority of laptop use cases, including as a sole or primary device.
@@thanorodd5663 I'm not going to drag my 34" monitor around with my, that's the point of a laptop, to use in varied places, my laptop is never used at a desk, when I'm at my desk I use my desktop, my laptop however gets used a ton, arguably more than the desktop for gaming.
Personally I don't get the point of low power ultralight laptops, to me they seem completely worthless as 95% of my use case for a laptop requires a strong GPU, either for gaming or 3d cad work, if I'm doing something that doesn't require the GPU power like browsing the web then 9 times out of 10 I'm just using my phone.
If it sells well then I'm sure Nvidia will want to bring Framework on as a partner. Nvidia like to get their chips in laptops.
If they could make a super cheap base model i could see this set up being really useful for high schools with BYOD or laptop programs. Start junior year with a cheap basic computer then puchase upgrades in senior years to improve the device. Plus having instructions and easily installable components makes repairs so much easier for the techs.
MXM cards were great... it's how I kept my old Sager laptop relevant well past it's prime until the motherboard died. Glad to see we have even more modularity!
The interchangeable gpu is exactly what I was waiting for to upgrade my laptop
This is such an interesting product, probably would wait 3-5 years down the line to see if the company survive (and grow, hopefully), and continue with their promise of swapable graphic cards
@@waldolemmer yes, but I dont see how third party companies would make the swapable gpus, which is the feature that I am most ecxited about
I feel like this is what I been saying about google pixel line... 😂 I'm still hesitant to pull the trigger
@@waldolemmer if they do make anything... companies won't make anything if there is no money to be made
@@SamSB250 funny that I now have pixel 6a after jumping from zenfone. I will tell you that my zenfone was more reliable than my pixel, it was just more simple to use. With pixel the battery isnt as good, and they implement many "adaptive" features to improve battery life, but it affects the usability of the phone, so I end up turning off the adaptive features. Also my pixel gets overheat more often
Buy now be happy for the next 3-5 years hope to see them around if they are do another upgrade and be set for a good while. And once your slowing down check back on them if they arnt around I’m sure they released stuff after you bought and do one last upgrade. You still got your money worth since you can sell the old parts and put that towards the new saving you even more money then buying a new laptop. Not counting all the projects you can do with the old board and gpu. Hell you can even part out your laptop if they failed and after your done with it and make back a lot since a lot of people will keep there’s and just keep fixing it. But i highly doubt they will fail in the next 10 years unless every company releases this style of laptop.
2:41 I AM NOT playing $70 for a screwdriver❗🗣️🔥
I love how the cooling solution is built in the GPU module. XMX really suffered from things not lining up or fitting in the dell XPS line.
This is literally the only new product I will buy, when I say this I mean it. For the past 5 years I've made it a personal rule to only buy used phones, used laptops, used vehicles, used PC and server parts, and used appliances.
Honestly, the fact there's a company *doing* modular laptops is a good push for more competition, for both future modular laptops and "traditional" laptops, as I'm currently daily driving a G14 so I'm excited to see what's down the line for possibly new modularity, I don't use the HDMI port all that often for instance so having a way to replace that with more USB ports would save me carrying a hub.
The display properties, uniformity aside, are actually the killer app on this laptop. A 16x10 1600P 165Hz VRR panel with serious color accuracy is not easy to accomplish.
@@joeykeilholz925 Name one other laptop cheaper than this that has the following screen specs: 16x10, 2560x1600, 500 nits, 100% DCI-P3 coverage, MATTE, 165Hz, VRR, and all of this with a Delta E less than 2 when calibrated.
It also has pretty bad reaction times with 11 ms white to black and 14.6ms gray50 to gray80 which is at best a true 90 hz and at worst 69 hz panel @@joeykeilholz925
Bro it’s $1400…. Barebones… no power supply memory ssd GPU I/O. You can get an entire gaming laptop for that
The crazy part is, a $1500 MacBook Pro 14” M3 smokes it until the framework hits $2000 price range. Then the M3 Pro and Max start to really hurt it.
It’s a very weak product when every issue is followed up with “but if you do this work around, it’s not as big of a problem.” No one buys a product and starts thinking about workarounds to make it useable.
@@JustDestiny260you verbalized what I’ve been thinking about this. I just recently came across this channel and it feels so disconnected to me
Fantastic video. I really enjoyed this format. I would love to see more videos like this!
I got one and it actually is my favorite ever windows based laptop. It is so easy to upgrade parts.
To framework: A small little hard case to store the numpad or two of the alternate parts you can put on the left or the right of the keyboard (depending on what you are using) would be quite nice.
If only this was also a 2-in-1 with touchscreen and stylus it would be an instant buy for me. It's hard enough finding a 2-in-1 with dedicated GPU, so a modular approach to building my own would be amazing!
I really wanted to buy a Framework laptop, but sadly, they don't ship to Japan.
I needed a new one for work and couldn't wait for the 16 or for them to figure out international shipping, so I had to go with something else instead 😢
Lenovo had the Ultrabay modular system ages ago, which allowed you to add a secondary GPU in SLI!
Unfortunately, they never really committed to the idea, which meant those modules were really hard to come by even before they were quickly discontinued.
Lenovo always does really cool stuff then just drops the idea entirely. I just bought a legion go handheld from them and so far it looks like updates and support are great so fingers crossed they support it for a couple years.
Yeah exactly! Weird they did no mention of it whatsoever. They where very easy to install or swap, was on the fence of buying one but waited to see how Lenovo would support them, turns out they did not lmao
Edit: I think it got discontinued because of poor timing, being as small as a cd drive they came out just before Nvidia's (M)obile GPU's where being replaced by lower TDP desktop equivalents, which needed more cooling and faster lane speeds
I can't wait for framework to launch in Sweden. I really am excited to see what the future holds for this brand, having the ability to swap parts with ease is amazing and I wish more brands would embrace this. I kind of miss the 18650 based battery packs but since people prefer thinner laptops nowadays I guess we'll have to suffer with the flatpacks... :D Those LED panels look amazing too, totally "useless" I am sure but who doesn't love LEDs? Would've liked a little more info on what they can do in the review though.
I‘m pretty sure Framework said in their shipping updates, that the press models, they sent to reviewers, still had some minor issues that would be fixed, when they get to public release.
So one can hope, the keyboard flex and panel overlap won‘t be a problem, once customers get their hands on one of these beauties.
Waiting for the framework - fairphone Collab brought to you by ifixit
The speakers, keyboard flex- even if fixable, the panel gap requiring electrical tape, and small track pad are honestly deal breakers for me on a 16" keyboard. I appreciate the honesty though, and will hope these are addressed on a V2 a year later
Some of it is likely to be addressed in the coming months as they send out preorders. Like with the 13 hinges and chassis flex, they made updates relatively sickly and switched manufacturing over to the new versions while offering those new parts to people who still had the old ones. Still a solid business concept and worth a few minor, miniscule gripes!
Can't wait to get mines
Thanks Linus for getting me into framework
I am really thankful that you guys gave Framework that airtime, really this is precisely what we need more of in the tech space.