I have two PMR30’s and a CMR30. No issues with any of them. You do have to be aware of how you load the magazine but that is covered well in the owners manual. I think people who have had problems probably skipped reading the manual. I have always had an affinity for .22 WMR ever since my dad bought me a Savage 63M in 1971. Great video Sootch.
Agreed, very thorough and objective review. A really nice bonus in having the combo PMR/CMR30 is that the same magazines work in both. They each come with two mags, so you can have 120 rounds ready to hand when you buy the pair.
sold my Kel Tec after the first day on the shooting yard. Bullet stucked in magazin, feeding problems every 2 nd shot. So i guess you didnt shoot the gun for 8 years.
Two things. 1: They're both delayed blowback. The barrel on the KelTec floats back just as much as the S&W. It's not as fancy, but it still keeps everything sealed up for just a bit longer. 2: You demonstrated loading the PMR by sliding the round all the way from the front to the back. There's slight cut outs halfway down the feed lips. That's where you should be starting. Makes things so much easier. I can only assume this is the mistake people make when they complain about loading the PMR-30.
Good to see more semi auto’s in 22 magnum… I’ve always been fascinated with this round but only have it in a single action revolver and in a bolt action rifle but I think it’s an underrated round… especially from a rifle! I really do want one of these semi auto’s in 22 mag though especially with that kind of capacity
Yes 22 wmr is so underrated. I love my pmr, it's one of my favorite handguns (right behind my 22 tcm). The pmr 30 is insanely light. After apx 500 rounds I had 2 malfunctions that I chalk up to lack of lubrication. 30 rounds of 22 wmr will get the job done.
@@brandonjohnson2493 22 Magnum In a rifle is good for small game, I've seen people take coyotes and hogs with the 22 Magnum. The pistol is good for practicing and self-defense. For those that say 22 Magnum is not good for self-defense I lay this challenge out for them- Get 10 yards away and let's see what happens first, you get to me before I empty my mag.
@@michaelhennessey8927 nice! I came really close to buying a nice used PMR at my local gun store a few years ago but ended up buying something else… every time I see a review for one I always wish I’d gotten it
Shot S&W for the first time today….what a blast! All the guys I went with had a ball shooting it, this thing is a tad driver! We were grouping 3” circles at 20 yards with no effort…there is really no recoil. My new favorite fun Gun!
A friend of mine is a Kel-Tec dealer and when the PMR30 came out I shot his and had to have one. Some time later they changed the barrel design and he told me to give them a call and they'll send me the new barrel. After confirming that I had the first generation they shipped me the new barrel without any questions. It's a fun pistol. I've never thought about using it for self defense but 30 rounds they'd definitely be leaking to say the least. 😂👌
The weight also plays a factor in mitigating recoil as well since the PMR-30s empty weight is 14 oz. vs the Smith and Wesson at 20. 6 ounces is a big difference on any handgun.
OK, "Let's Get Started", and we, as educated, experience Gun People, know that S&W is a Great gun Manufacturer and IMO, this should be a Great Tribute to Kel-Tec, for being a Great Innovative Company! They have pushed the envelope with their PMR30 into the future of Gun Manufacturing, with their Cutting Edge Design! So having said this, it's no wonder that S&W has introduced this "Look Alike Gun" at this time! The PMR30 has Now become a solid performer with their 30 round, 22 Magnum Gun and within the recent past, many other Gun Manufacturers have followed this Trend! I'm quite sure that S&W's Gun will be a very successful 22 magnum gun BUT the Price is twice as much as the PMR30! At this Time, I think I might buy another PMR30 and then I will have Two Great 22 magnum Guns! 😎
This is the best produced video I have ever viewed. Not to mention great content. Right to the point. No wasted time. Thank you. I think I’ll subscribe.
Owned my Kel Tec since 2019. Instruction manual says to use 40gr bullets. Have used 50gr with no problem. 36gr and under will turn it into a single shot. To make loading really easy buy a mag loader. I really like rhe fact that it and the carbine take the same mags. All in all a fun gun. A optical sight is easy to mount. I mounted a Burris Fast Fire 4. 22mag ammo is dirtier that reg 22 , so I field strip and clean after every shooting session.. no matter how many rounds I fire thru it that day.
I own both. I have the Smith, a stock PMR,p and 2 PMRs with the full MCarbo upgrades kit. Hands down the upgraded PMRs are the best of them all. The smith is second only because the mags are so easy to load, followed in third by the stock PMR, again because of the mags. With the MCarbo kit the PMR will shoot ANY ammo without a hitch... even the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel. The Smith's TEMPO barrel is a neat idea but I don't feel it reducing the recoil much, especially with the mild 22WMR. What the TEMPO system does do is dirty the gun up really fast. So dirty that after 300ish rounds you'll start having feeding issues. Which ever way you go buy lots and lots of ammo because they are both extremely fun to shoot and they shoot fast. 30 rd mags empty in no time so you will go through the ammo like crazy.
You trying to convince a 2 piece plastic pistol that is FAMOUS for jamming saying it's better then the S&W Tempo Barrel System is laughable!!! Enjoy your cheap pistol, I know your a lying fool because if you had a S&W .22 mag you wouldn't be spitting diareah
Good job, as always. I have both and you've reached a fair conclusion. Doing M*CARBO upgrades on Kel-Tec's got me into working on guns. The S&W with optics cut got me into red dots. This is how we evolve...
Have all 3 the wmp the pmr 30 and the mp 22wmr ..by leaps n bounds the smith mp and mind u i have over 6k thru the pmr 20 bit that took alot of parts to get it to run those 6k and 3 trips to keltec...the mp is already halfway there at 3.3k and 0 issues through 30 33 40 45 50 gr all in same magazine without a hiccup ...of i could only buy one of the 3 itd be the smith mp22wmr hands down if that helps .@@Johnz0rrr
Kel-Tec is FANTASTIC at looking at the market, saying "Why isn't anyone doing (insert wacky idea here)?" and then making it, usually resulting in other manufacturers making a more refined version some years later.
Kel Tec is great for a company operated out of a federally subsidized dorm room of a 7th year feminine studies major whose entire product line is produced on a 3D printer that was purchased secondhand off Craigslist in a cash+weed deal.
Kel-Tec wins for 2 reasons: 1 weight, the pmr30 is much lighter and easier to carry, and 2, price, the rrp on the Kel Tec is half the other. Their performance, when each is properly tuned and maintained, is neck and neck.
Huuuge Kel-Tec fan. Never had a problem with the 5 I have, some people hate on them but those guys often can't even drive a stick shift car. That said, I bought the S&W. Very happy so far. If Kel-Tec had a metal one I would have bought. Now this is my 30 rd dragonslayer and my main carry with S&W 351c as a backup. Love my CMR30 and would love a Smith Wesson clone of that!!
I've owned about the same number of Kel-Tecs, shot many rounds through each and never had a problem with any of them either. I'm just not sure what being able to drive a manual has to do with having a valid opinion. Speaking of opinions, I think the hate toward Kel-Tec over the years has been largely undeserved. To fix it, they should remove the Kel-Tec wording from the gun and put Sig Sauer on it instead. This way the user will think "wow, a new Sig that's actually reliable!" 😁
@@TheLostGrid I'd be more inclined to say "can't change their own oil." I'm also a huge Kel-tec fan. Got my PMR and Su-16b the same day, and love 'em both. The SU-16 was amusing as Knight's Armament had just announced their lightest AR-15 yet when I bought the SU-16. The KA was ~$2600, and I got the SU-16 for $450. . . and the SU-16 was half a lb lighter than the KA to boot.
Man I just realized S&W are playing checkers not chess. They're basically making their own versions of what keltec did 10-13 years ago, a folding carbine, a bullpup shotgun and this.
Lmfaoooo not even close your attention skills are lax bro...have the kel the wmp and the mp (had the amt and the grendel) by farrrrrr the mp wins the 22mag race...the only thing the mp has in common with the pmr 30 is that it's in 22wmr and it holds 30 rounds. .thats it !! Lol...the mp is gas operated pistol just like their 5.7 but in this format its delayed blowback the barrel inside the sleeve doubles as your gas piston that has its gas checks built in...the pmr is poor mans blowback ...the mp requires zero buffer inserts unlike the pmr 30 and wmp because due to that gas system there'd no need for said buffers on the mp ...the mp has a stainless barrel(way better durability ) the pmr 30 ? Carbon ...the mp has a western mag release ..the pmr 30 European on the bottom...the mp optic ready no plates needed , the pmr30 ? A joke to even use a red dot on em by the time u add all the bs...the mp ? 1 piece frame ... the pmr30 cheap ass screw together frame ..mp integrated metal feedramp ...mp plastic trash feed ramp that needs mcarbo 2nd gen feed ramp to kake it run like it should have outta the gate (have 2 pmrs that took multiple trips to kel and then finally macrbo and me using lapping compound to get it reliable with 30 rd mag dumps) ..mp mag dump outta the gate and 4k rds in and shoots legit every 22wmr I can find ..keltec hornady 45 csd hornady 30, federal 50, federal punch only Remington 33gr only it absolutes hates cci ...mp shoots em all, even that junk armscor ammo ....thats like saying because Ford brought out the model A the porsche 911 copied them when the onky commonality is the 4 tires.... Sub2000 and smith ain't even a comparison either the kel they never improved their design top folding effing up your optic when smith got it right outta the gate n made it fold sideways so your optic could say in place when folded unlike the sub2000 Have 2 ksgs kept 1 got the smith , again no comparison... They're all so differently designed theres not a fraction of a chance of patent infringement coming into play ...by your insight every striker fired polymer designed pistol is by sig hk fn canik Springfield smith are all copying glock 😂😂😂😂 when again they're all different ..lack of education on a subject breeds ignorance .
Smith & Wesson didn't copy the designs but they definitely hopped in on the market interest that was shown for certain KelTecs. Nothing wrong with that. They can do it better, and there's more demand than Keltec can supply...
I have a PMR and it’s a blast, but it jams pretty regularly. I would never use it as my carry. I also spent $200 upgrading the internals on the PMR which helped dramatically, but now I’m $500 in and it still jams. I’d love to pick up the S&W
I own 2 PMR-30s. Both are fitted with M-Carbo kits. They are very reliable as long as you use a quality magazine loader and keep them cleaned and lubed. I plan on buying the S&W as well.
I bought a PMR 30 6 years ago. Not bad after significant gun smithing. But out of the box, the failure to feed was one in every mag load. I liked the 22 WMR round, so I bought the Rock Island 22 XTM. I don't know if Sootch00 does not know about this gun, or if dislikes it and decided not to mention it. The 22 XTM is a 1911 style gun and has never failed me. It's also dead-on accurate.
Nope, not the problem. Magazines fell out because of poor magazine and latch tolerances (they did not fully seat). Slide did not run true and would occasionally stick just before lock-up. Double feeding was common. With lots of patience, and many trips to the range, the problems were solved. While I am a machinist and could fix many of the problems, I also had a very good gunsmith at my gun range. With time and patience, we got it to run well on 40 grain bullets. Never able to get 30 or 50 grain bullets to run reliably. Google Keltec PMR 30 Problems and you will get numerous websites and TH-cam tutorials on fixing the problems.
@@hallhall5777 i own one and it runs great and many other people can say the same, it can run any load I've put in it and i have had none of those problems, it just seems like they need to fix some quality control problems. You got a faulty gun from factory.
One advantage that the PMR 30 has over the S&W is that it has a big brother, the CMR 30. It uses the same ammo and the same magazine wrapped up in a collapsible semi-auto rifle able to fit in a backpack. Pay close attention to the ammo you though, You must have at least 40gr. ammo and preferably 45gr. to 50gr. for it to be really effective and eject properly. There is also a great little loader available which helps to keep magazine mistakes to a minimum. Over all, and for the money, I love my PMR and CMR weapons. Dirty Harry, they are not, but you don't want to get in front of something which can put at least 25 holes in you very quickly. Each shot may not be much, but the aggregate total can be devastating...
I've owned the pmr30 for 3 years now. It has jammed every time i have shot it. I have the Mcarbo upgrades installed. Armalaser, thredded barrel, muzzle break and Talon grips. So it is a sexy paper weight. Every type of ammo has been through it. All jam. I also own the p17. It has NEVER had a misfire ever, so go figure
I’ve had my PMR30 for 2 years now and absolutely love it. It’s my backpacking gun . It feels like a toy pistol in the hand it’s so light. I feel the fiber optic rear sight is a definite plus over the S&W. I’m not crazy though about the rubber buffer, or having to replace one every so often. If Keltec went under ( God forbid), you’d own a paperweight
@@TheGoodguy68 I was thinking long term, like decades down the road. But the more I think about about it, that could be any part off any gun. That was the only negative thing I could say about the PMR30.
I’d love to have either one, I’ve become fascinated with the 22 magnum round. I keep hearing they aren’t enough for self defense but I’m not buying that. Out of a rifle especially it definitely punches above it’s weight class.
REALLY wish the S&W had fiber optic tubes in the rear sight. That’s the ONLY thing the Kel Tec does better other than price….BUT, by the time you buy the MCARBO kit to make the Kel Tec run reliably, you’ll spend WAY MORE for what is essentially a plastic almost Snap-Together gun! Glad the S&W came out….that’ll be my purchase for sure now!
Superb review of both competitors, but gotta put more scrutiny on ammo and the mags. I love the Kel Tec but the ones I have fired all had major problems with anything lower than 40 grain. The two S&Ws I fired had no problems with any grain weight from 30 to 50gr. The PMR30 magazine is very sensitive if accidentally dropped when loaded, as the ammo may shift and cause malfunctions. The S&W mag is much more durable and reliable in that regard.
I have had mine many years. Have done some great mods on it and it’s super accurate and fun to shoot. Not to mention cheap to shoot. That said It used to malfunction at times. Rounds would hang on feed ramp etc. The red dot on the slide may be the culprit. I polished my feed ramp and that seemed to fix it. MCarbo makes a red dot mount also that doesn’t sit on slide. That weight can be a problem in these guns as .22 mag doesn’t have huge amount of blow back power apparently.
I have the PMR and have run about 400 rds with different weights and different ammo. So far not one single problem. Bought mine in 23 so its a new version
If S&W makes a folding version I would buy one as it stands KelTec makes the CMR carbine which uses the same mags as the PMR. S&W could have 2 winners if they made folding versions of 22WMR and 5.7
22mag is more than double the power of 22lr. 22lr out a handguns a 75ftlb round out a rifle about 110ftlb where the 22mags about 380ftlb out a handgun in comparison the standard 9mm round is about 400ftlb so its definetly more than double a 22lr and just a smidgen less power than 9mm
At 5ft 6in tall and 155 lbs and small hands … I bought a kel-tec .22 mag for my personal carry … I spent some time putting lots of different ammo through it …. I found that federal ammo 50 grn was the best … it was just plain awesome…. I found that 20 rounds in the mag was the way to go ….it’s So good it’s all I use in my .22 mag rifle by savage …. Extremely effective and accurate… the handgun is so light you don’t know you have one with you … I do not have any jamming issues .. but I buy top federal ammo ….. I’ve shot some living creatures with this gun … head shots lives the creatures dead with the federal 50 grn going straight through their skulls 😁👍👍🏆
I Love S&W but that barrel tube system made up my mind . Kel-Tek would b my choice . I've seen other reviews n the Kel-Tek will run thousands of rounds without issue ! Thank you for the video . Hello fellow Patriots ! Love and blessings to all .
Always enjoy your videos, subscribed. I am confused by the comments on this video. I have a Keltec PMR 30. I live 10 minutes away from Keltec and know people who work there. Great service especially to the locals. BUT I think this video is being soft on the Keltec PMR 30. You referred to MCARBO. Go look at their video of a PMR 30 prior to MCARBO upgrades. The PMR 30 stovepipes all over the place. You may be able to get by with 40 gain, but a solid choice needs to eat it all. So I put the $250 into the full MCARBO upgrades. Now this is a $750 proposition. While comments say you just need to read the manual to load the Keltec mags, good luck. Plus how many 30 round mags are you going to manually load unless you preload at home before shooting. I purchased the Keltec OEM speed loader. You feed the round in through the side and punch down on it. It not only dimpled the round it starting having stacking issues as the mag tension increased. YOU HAVE TO SPEED LOAD THESE ROUNDS. IMO there needs to be more emphasis on this because mag capacity is a major sell point for this rig. You have to be able to carry with one in and hot and ready and have full confidence in performance and one mag on the ready for a 60 rd count, and the ability to swap those mags on the fly. THIS IS A DEAL BREAKER. Next: that mag release on the keltec is complete BS. The mag will release without having to pull it out, but you have to use your secondary hand to release. The standard mag release much better. I just got one of the last flash suppresser threaded barrel, etc, extra compensator, I threw everything into my keltec to make it work and it will fire 30 grain without stove pipping, but the other draw backs just do not justify the keltec. MCARBO use to have the rubberized stippling and I put that on and it makes a difference, you can always put talon on it if you wanted to improve on that I guess. I still need to run it since i installed the flash suppressor, but I just dont hold out much hope. I will say the mcarbo upgrade with the trigger gives me a trigger like the freedomsmith pinnacle pro config and it pulls sweet. mag load, mag release and limitation to grain indifference requiring $250 in upgrades is a bit much. I have learned from this that IF I have to improve an OEM design with aftermarket to take any grain then there is something way wrong with this picture. You made reference to the 35 grain. Did the S&W run them flawless. It just looks like such a better platform. I would have liked to see S&W make a more pronounced safety. The 22WMR is a sweet round and if I knew it would be around during the zombie apocalypse I might think twice. Plus try to put an optic on the PMR 30. Makes sense the S&W is the go to they had a few years to watch keltec make all the mistakes. I really want to test fire the two in comparison now that I have watched this. I will see if I can find a rental. Thanks again, good juju
I just bought the gray version, I'm thinking of ordering a case of.. ...22 PUNCH with 45 grain boolits. It might be my EDC, it would a ...great defensive pistol if someone faced multiple attackers. A pack of aggressive dogs or a group of two legged vermin don't stand a chance. Earplugs a must.!
Great sensible gun review. Thank you very much. New subscriber here. Looking forward to much more. I think I’m gonna swing toward the Smith and Wesson. Both guns look great. But I like the idea of the Smith & Wesson being all metal up top. That’s what sold me, thanks again.
Unfortunately, I can't have either weapon. I really like firearms, especially those with a large shooting capacity. Between Kel-Tec and S&W, I think I would opt for S&W, as Kel-Tec's image was damaged by several videos where it was unable to unload a single magazine without interruption, which was often annoying. Now, it appears that Kel-Tec has solved this problem by swapping a small plastic part for a metal one, but the image of Kel-Tec failing will always be in the minds of its owners.
Want lower recoil in the Keltec? Add enough weight to bring it up to the S&W weight. Maybe something on the picatinny rail. These guns might be good for the typical urban chimpout, as you are talking about multiple assailants, not just one or two.
I hadn’t heard a gun company was making a 22WMR semi-auto handgun. I mean I knew Kel Tec was making one, but as everyone knows they don’t actually firearms. They make paperweights on a 3D printer in some broke feminine studies major’s federally subsidized dorm room. At least that’s my impression judging by their products. Now that S&W has stepped up and started making one I will have to pick one up.
Was in the Luke AIR Force base exchange and saw a Keltec sitting in the case and was excited to find and then purchase. I proceeded to tell the person that I was also looking at the new smith but wasn’t confident that I would be able to find one because they were unavailable everywhere. They had just received 3 and I bought the smith. Have not had the chance to shoot it yet
Its a great fun gun. Love mine, I see some upgrades that might make the gun slightly more reliable. But for $250.00 I will pick up a Taurus TX22 and love it as well.
Nice review. I have both and at this point im not sure which I like better.....I'm not sure one is better than the other, they are just different. I was just about to get a WMP when the Smith came out. I still probably will because I like 22 mag.
I had the firing pin on my PMR30 break. I really wasn't impressed with the type of steel they use. Hard, but very brittle steel. I felt like they could have stepped down on the hardness a bit, especially given the shape of the firing pin. Makes me reluctant to want to rely on it. I'm considering the M&P .22mag. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it functions more reliably and the parts are probably more robust.
The AMT 22 auto mag is a great gun. I have one. I like it better because it’s all steel. The drawback it doesn’t hold 30 rounds. But it is still the best of the three.
I have access to a pmr 30. Love it, my favorite gun to shoot, $16.50 a box makes it relatively cheap to shoot, the accuracy is very good..Ear protection is definitely recommended....😅😅
i have a gen 1 sub2k and love it and have purchased some items from mcarbo for it. my wife and i had the pf9 and p11, both of which would cause a hot spot on my trigger finger with that big curve, i have large hands/fingers. would like to try the pmr30 to see how the trigger feels on my finger, i like kel-tec's innovative style.
I'm rather skeptical that those rounds are going anywhere close to the advertised velocity out of a sub-5" BBL. BBTI suggests they're probably going closer to 1300fps, same as a 22LR out of a rifle
Fired the PMR. CC a V2 Shield 9mm. I can see how the half-slide design leads to more recoil. OTOH, I can't trust a firearm I can see through. Perhaps it's just the gun in your test, Sootch.
I have the PMR30 Gen 2 and the M&P 5.7. The annoying problem with the M&P 5.7 and 22mag is the gap between the frame and the slide at the muzzle end. It doesn’t affect operation just freaking ugly!!
advantages of the S&W over the Kel-Tec. S&W is optic ready. It has a solid frame, standard mag release, textured grip, pop-out magazine, heavier than Keltec, trigger blade safety, crispier trigger break, mag easier to load, it is lower recoil than Kel-Tec, stainless frame VS polymer on the KTec. Thanks to this video I am definitively, without a doubt, getting the S&W. Thank you for a detail description on both guns.
I've heard a lot of TH-cam video guys throwing off on the new M andp 22 magnum. Because the grip is so square and huge on it if that's the case I'm sure Smith and Wesson will do some changes on future models thanks for the video
Personally, I lean towards the Kel-Tec PMR-30. The higher capacity magazine and lightweight design make it stand out for me, especially considering the .22 Magnum caliber. It seems like a versatile option for both self-defense and recreational shooting
I run both the PMR and S&W. I spent alot of time and money with MCARBO mods on the PMR and have experimented with different ammunition. Though it has gotten more reliable with the feed issues after these mods it still is not 100%. I admit they are easy to clear, a simple pull back of the slide and the round will chamber but rarely am I able to run a full magazine without at least one FTF. I was excited to get the M&P. Hoping for 100% reliable operation. First few magazines had some FTF issue also. Not real happy. I decided to take some of what I learned with the KelTec and MCARBO and did one simple thing. Polished the feed ramp. Since that time 100% reliable operation. Easily have fired closing in on 5000 rounds no FTF issue what-so-ever. The puppy sings at the range. I am still tinkering with the PMR and hope someday to get it to keep up the the M&P but hands down I would suggest the M&P over the PMR from the start. It maybe a bit more but with all the money I have spent on PMR/MCARBO mods the PMR's cost has exceeded the base price of the M&P.
That M&P would be a crazy cool gun setup if it was legal to put a rifle stock on it , with a red dot and backup 45/ 60 round magazines. Im mean its still ,but it could be cooler.
LOL people fixate on a gun's looks but can't hit the broad side of a planet....at least their gun looks pretty while their excuses get increasingly creative.
Great comparison video. I currently have the Keltec, but I would like another 22 wmr for the wife to conceal carry. They are such fun guns to shoot and for older people or those who have hand strength issues a 22wmr is a great hand gun.
I want the kel Tec so bad this should be a great review. Very cool guns still like the kel Tec the sights are awesome my buddy has one is a nail driver!
S&W has really been copying everyone's homework. The reason why I accept that is because all they've been copying are concepts that I like and want to see more of in the market, making the five-seven affordable and three of Kel-Tec's more reliable, using better materials and addressing some opinions on choices like the sub-2000 folding vertically for a premium. In the end I'd still go with Kel-Tec because of affordability for a plinking and hiking gun, but now even the snobs will be looking forward to more guns in .22 mag
Something a lot of people who review these guns don't mention is the amount of power you LOSE when going from a full length rifle to a short barreled pistol. .22wmr is a rifle cartridge with slow burning rifle powder that achieves it's maximum potential pressure in barrels of around 20-25 inches, and when you only have 3-4 inches of barrel to burn that powder you lose a LOT of power. It's why you always hear about how .22wmr handguns spit out huge fireballs, those fireballs are all the unburnt propellant being wasted because the bullet left the barrel too soon to utilize it all. The advertised velocities you see on the box are high ball estimates achieved with extra long barrels. CCI Maxi Mag ammo from a pistol the size of a PMR-30 will only get you around ~1200-1300 feet/second, which is hardly more powerful than 22lr CCI Mini Mags from a full length rifle. Now don't get me wrong, 30 rounds of .22 cal traveling at 1300fps towards a bad guy is a lot of firepower, but suddenly it's not 30 rounds of .22 cal traveling at 2000fps, and certainly isn't "Twice as powerful as the 22lr" even when you consider the lost velocity from shooting 22lr out of a handgun. I've heard people describe carrying the PMR-30 and similar pistols as "Having an ar-15 in my pocket" where it's really much more analogous to "Having a 10/22 in my pocket".
I have two PMR30’s and a CMR30. No issues with any of them. You do have to be aware of how you load the magazine but that is covered well in the owners manual. I think people who have had problems probably skipped reading the manual. I have always had an affinity for .22 WMR ever since my dad bought me a Savage 63M in 1971. Great video Sootch.
Agreed, very thorough and objective review. A really nice bonus in having the combo PMR/CMR30 is that the same magazines work in both. They each come with two mags, so you can have 120 rounds ready to hand when you buy the pair.
Gotta have one
Been shooting my trusty Ruger for years. The 30 rd in Magnum is what I want now.
Owned my Kel Tec for 8 years with zero problems! Great .22 mag pistol !
Why cant i buy it in the mail
@@censored4christ162Because you have to go through a background check. Duh
sold my Kel Tec after the first day on the shooting yard. Bullet stucked in magazin, feeding problems every 2 nd shot. So i guess you didnt shoot the gun for 8 years.
@@Mophonic
Keltec issues with quality control doesn't mean every one coming off the line will have the same problems. He probably just has a good one
I have two and haven't had any issues it's picky with ammo so feed it what it likes and load your mag properly
Cheers from Brazil, i love this channel, protect your gun rights at all costs, it's too late for my country, not for yours.
You'll get them back one day. Bolsonaro got the closest to full legalisation. Stay strong, from the UK
Thanks Joao! I hope things will turn around for Brazil one day!
@@sootch00 i don't believe that this is possible.
@@joaopedrobaggio4475Anything is possible. It’s BraaZyil!
They’ll never get our guns! Peace from the US!
I’ve had my Keltec PMR30 for about 7 years now. Absolutely love it. 30 rounds is great firepower. Great video. Thanks RT
Two things.
1: They're both delayed blowback. The barrel on the KelTec floats back just as much as the S&W. It's not as fancy, but it still keeps everything sealed up for just a bit longer.
2: You demonstrated loading the PMR by sliding the round all the way from the front to the back. There's slight cut outs halfway down the feed lips. That's where you should be starting. Makes things so much easier. I can only assume this is the mistake people make when they complain about loading the PMR-30.
🤔👍👌
Agreed. That’s where most people screw up. They don’t read the owner manual and try loading the mags incorrectly. That and not using 40 grain
Good to see more semi auto’s in 22 magnum… I’ve always been fascinated with this round but only have it in a single action revolver and in a bolt action rifle but I think it’s an underrated round… especially from a rifle! I really do want one of these semi auto’s in 22 mag though especially with that kind of capacity
Yes 22 wmr is so underrated.
I love my pmr, it's one of my favorite handguns (right behind my 22 tcm).
The pmr 30 is insanely light.
After apx 500 rounds I had 2 malfunctions that I chalk up to lack of lubrication.
30 rounds of 22 wmr will get the job done.
What is this caliber for?
@@brandonjohnson2493 22 Magnum In a rifle is good for small game, I've seen people take coyotes and hogs with the 22 Magnum.
The pistol is good for practicing and self-defense.
For those that say 22 Magnum is not good for self-defense I lay this challenge out for them-
Get 10 yards away and let's see what happens first, you get to me before I empty my mag.
@@michaelhennessey8927 nice! I came really close to buying a nice used PMR at my local gun store a few years ago but ended up buying something else… every time I see a review for one I always wish I’d gotten it
IT'S MY GO TO FOR ARMADILLOS & CLOSE HOG SHOTS -- QUITE A BIT MORE EFFECTIVE THAN THE 22LR @@brandonjohnson2493
“Discipline equals freedom” great shirt and a great book. Another excellent review. Love your channel.
This statement needs clarification: freedom from temptations but not for comprehensive permissibility.
Shot S&W for the first time today….what a blast! All the guys I went with had a ball shooting it, this thing is a tad driver!
We were grouping 3” circles at 20 yards with no effort…there is really no recoil. My new favorite fun Gun!
1:54 look at the barrel difference. The S&W is heavier and better for recoil reduction.
A friend of mine is a Kel-Tec dealer and when the PMR30 came out I shot his and had to have one. Some time later they changed the barrel design and he told me to give them a call and they'll send me the new barrel. After confirming that I had the first generation they shipped me the new barrel without any questions. It's a fun pistol. I've never thought about using it for self defense but 30 rounds they'd definitely be leaking to say the least. 😂👌
Thanks for the info I'm gonna check if I need a barrel as well my gun has been flawless but I need a few bushings as well.......
I've been wanting to see this comparison. Awesome choice! Great video!
The weight also plays a factor in mitigating recoil as well since the PMR-30s empty weight is 14 oz. vs the Smith and Wesson at 20. 6 ounces is a big difference on any handgun.
OK, "Let's Get Started", and we, as educated, experience Gun People, know that S&W is a Great gun Manufacturer and IMO, this should be a Great Tribute to Kel-Tec, for being a Great Innovative Company! They have pushed the envelope with their PMR30 into the future of Gun Manufacturing, with their Cutting Edge Design! So having said this, it's no wonder that S&W has introduced this "Look Alike Gun" at this time! The PMR30 has Now become a solid performer with their 30 round, 22 Magnum Gun and within the recent past, many other Gun Manufacturers have followed this Trend! I'm quite sure that S&W's Gun will be a very successful 22 magnum gun BUT the Price is twice as much as the PMR30! At this Time, I think I might buy another PMR30 and then I will have Two Great 22 magnum Guns! 😎
I may have to pick up the M&P but it makes me wonder why they can make the magnum with 30 rounds but they only do 10 for the 22lr.
This is the best produced video I have ever viewed. Not to mention great content. Right to the point. No wasted time. Thank you. I think I’ll subscribe.
Owned my Kel Tec since 2019. Instruction manual says to use 40gr bullets. Have used 50gr with no problem. 36gr and under will turn it into a single shot. To make loading really easy buy a mag loader. I really like rhe fact that it and the carbine take the same mags. All in all a fun gun. A optical sight is easy to mount. I mounted a Burris Fast Fire 4. 22mag ammo is dirtier that reg 22 , so I field strip and clean after every shooting session.. no matter how many rounds I fire thru it that day.
I shoot 30 gr cci all day long with mine
@@meme8315tnt maxi mags? Those are wicked, thats what i carry everyday in mine
I own both. I have the Smith, a stock PMR,p and 2 PMRs with the full MCarbo upgrades kit. Hands down the upgraded PMRs are the best of them all. The smith is second only because the mags are so easy to load, followed in third by the stock PMR, again because of the mags. With the MCarbo kit the PMR will shoot ANY ammo without a hitch... even the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel. The Smith's TEMPO barrel is a neat idea but I don't feel it reducing the recoil much, especially with the mild 22WMR. What the TEMPO system does do is dirty the gun up really fast. So dirty that after 300ish rounds you'll start having feeding issues. Which ever way you go buy lots and lots of ammo because they are both extremely fun to shoot and they shoot fast. 30 rd mags empty in no time so you will go through the ammo like crazy.
You trying to convince a 2 piece plastic pistol that is FAMOUS for jamming saying it's better then the S&W Tempo Barrel System is laughable!!! Enjoy your cheap pistol, I know your a lying fool because if you had a S&W .22 mag you wouldn't be spitting diareah
That's exactly what I thought would happen . That was what made my mind up just didn't like that system at all .
Good job, as always. I have both and you've reached a fair conclusion. Doing M*CARBO upgrades on Kel-Tec's got me into working on guns. The S&W with optics cut got me into red dots. This is how we evolve...
So between the two, which would be the best option currently?
The S&W since it's optics ready, and the Kel-Tec needs some M*CARBO improvements to run more reliably.@@Johnz0rrr
Have all 3 the wmp the pmr 30 and the mp 22wmr ..by leaps n bounds the smith mp and mind u i have over 6k thru the pmr 20 bit that took alot of parts to get it to run those 6k and 3 trips to keltec...the mp is already halfway there at 3.3k and 0 issues through 30 33 40 45 50 gr all in same magazine without a hiccup ...of i could only buy one of the 3 itd be the smith mp22wmr hands down if that helps .@@Johnz0rrr
Kel-Tec is FANTASTIC at looking at the market, saying "Why isn't anyone doing (insert wacky idea here)?" and then making it, usually resulting in other manufacturers making a more refined version some years later.
Kel-Tec gets its share of detractors, but no one has ever said they lack imagination.
Kel Tec is great for a company operated out of a federally subsidized dorm room of a 7th year feminine studies major whose entire product line is produced on a 3D printer that was purchased secondhand off Craigslist in a cash+weed deal.
Kel-Tec wins for 2 reasons: 1 weight, the pmr30 is much lighter and easier to carry, and 2, price, the rrp on the Kel Tec is half the other. Their performance, when each is properly tuned and maintained, is neck and neck.
I remember my first beer…
I'm glad I found this video. I didn't even know S&W had an alternative to the Kaltec
I have the Keltec and am quite happy with it.
Huuuge Kel-Tec fan. Never had a problem with the 5 I have, some people hate on them but those guys often can't even drive a stick shift car. That said, I bought the S&W. Very happy so far. If Kel-Tec had a metal one I would have bought. Now this is my 30 rd dragonslayer and my main carry with S&W 351c as a backup. Love my CMR30 and would love a Smith Wesson clone of that!!
"Love my CMR30 and would love a Smith Wesson clone of that!!"
Absolutely - I'll second that!
Cmr and pmr make a great pair, add in the keltec speed loader, and it's a blast
I've owned about the same number of Kel-Tecs, shot many rounds through each and never had a problem with any of them either. I'm just not sure what being able to drive a manual has to do with having a valid opinion.
Speaking of opinions, I think the hate toward Kel-Tec over the years has been largely undeserved. To fix it, they should remove the Kel-Tec wording from the gun and put Sig Sauer on it instead. This way the user will think "wow, a new Sig that's actually reliable!" 😁
I'm saying people who talk crap about kel tec are often sheep just repeating things. Like "car guys" that can't drive a stick shift.
@@TheLostGrid I'd be more inclined to say "can't change their own oil." I'm also a huge Kel-tec fan. Got my PMR and Su-16b the same day, and love 'em both. The SU-16 was amusing as Knight's Armament had just announced their lightest AR-15 yet when I bought the SU-16. The KA was ~$2600, and I got the SU-16 for $450. . . and the SU-16 was half a lb lighter than the KA to boot.
Man I just realized S&W are playing checkers not chess. They're basically making their own versions of what keltec did 10-13 years ago, a folding carbine, a bullpup shotgun and this.
Thank you!
Lmfaoooo not even close your attention skills are lax bro...have the kel the wmp and the mp (had the amt and the grendel) by farrrrrr the mp wins the 22mag race...the only thing the mp has in common with the pmr 30 is that it's in 22wmr and it holds 30 rounds. .thats it !! Lol...the mp is gas operated pistol just like their 5.7 but in this format its delayed blowback the barrel inside the sleeve doubles as your gas piston that has its gas checks built in...the pmr is poor mans blowback ...the mp requires zero buffer inserts unlike the pmr 30 and wmp because due to that gas system there'd no need for said buffers on the mp ...the mp has a stainless barrel(way better durability ) the pmr 30 ? Carbon ...the mp has a western mag release ..the pmr 30 European on the bottom...the mp optic ready no plates needed , the pmr30 ? A joke to even use a red dot on em by the time u add all the bs...the mp ? 1 piece frame ... the pmr30 cheap ass screw together frame ..mp integrated metal feedramp ...mp plastic trash feed ramp that needs mcarbo 2nd gen feed ramp to kake it run like it should have outta the gate (have 2 pmrs that took multiple trips to kel and then finally macrbo and me using lapping compound to get it reliable with 30 rd mag dumps) ..mp mag dump outta the gate and 4k rds in and shoots legit every 22wmr I can find ..keltec hornady 45 csd hornady 30, federal 50, federal punch only Remington 33gr only it absolutes hates cci ...mp shoots em all, even that junk armscor ammo ....thats like saying because Ford brought out the model A the porsche 911 copied them when the onky commonality is the 4 tires....
Sub2000 and smith ain't even a comparison either the kel they never improved their design top folding effing up your optic when smith got it right outta the gate n made it fold sideways so your optic could say in place when folded unlike the sub2000
Have 2 ksgs kept 1 got the smith , again no comparison...
They're all so differently designed theres not a fraction of a chance of patent infringement coming into play ...by your insight every striker fired polymer designed pistol is by sig hk fn canik Springfield smith are all copying glock 😂😂😂😂 when again they're all different ..lack of education on a subject breeds ignorance .
Smith & Wesson didn't copy the designs but they definitely hopped in on the market interest that was shown for certain KelTecs.
Nothing wrong with that. They can do it better, and there's more demand than Keltec can supply...
The Smith & Wesson has a superior build quality.
I have a PMR and it’s a blast, but it jams pretty regularly. I would never use it as my carry. I also spent $200 upgrading the internals on the PMR which helped dramatically, but now I’m $500 in and it still jams. I’d love to pick up the S&W
Its pretty specific to the rd, some just dont load well. I use 30 grain cci maximag tnt rds and they work well, oil is essential
Did you polish the feed ramp?
I own 2 PMR-30s. Both are fitted with M-Carbo kits. They are very reliable as long as you use a quality magazine loader and keep them cleaned and lubed. I plan on buying the S&W as well.
M*Carbo kits definitely recommended
Lubed, yes.
Thanks Don glad you did this one love them both
Thanks Terry! They are both great guns and the caliber is sweet!
I bought a PMR 30 6 years ago. Not bad after significant gun smithing. But out of the box, the failure to feed was one in every mag load. I liked the 22 WMR round, so I bought the Rock Island 22 XTM. I don't know if Sootch00 does not know about this gun, or if dislikes it and decided not to mention it. The 22 XTM is a 1911 style gun and has never failed me. It's also dead-on accurate.
You obviously didn't read the manual, it tells you a way to load the mags that fixes the problem
Nope, not the problem. Magazines fell out because of poor magazine and latch tolerances (they did not fully seat). Slide did not run true and would occasionally stick just before lock-up. Double feeding was common. With lots of patience, and many trips to the range, the problems were solved. While I am a machinist and could fix many of the problems, I also had a very good gunsmith at my gun range. With time and patience, we got it to run well on 40 grain bullets. Never able to get 30 or 50 grain bullets to run reliably.
Google Keltec PMR 30 Problems and you will get numerous websites and TH-cam tutorials on fixing the problems.
@@hallhall5777 i own one and it runs great and many other people can say the same, it can run any load I've put in it and i have had none of those problems, it just seems like they need to fix some quality control problems. You got a faulty gun from factory.
also don't forget, it has one of the BEST triggers on the planet! for a 1911, blew my mind
One advantage that the PMR 30 has over the S&W is that it has a big brother, the CMR 30. It uses the same ammo and the same magazine wrapped up in a collapsible semi-auto rifle able to fit in a backpack. Pay close attention to the ammo you though, You must have at least 40gr. ammo and preferably 45gr. to 50gr. for it to be really effective and eject properly. There is also a great little loader available which helps to keep magazine mistakes to a minimum.
Over all, and for the money, I love my PMR and CMR weapons. Dirty Harry, they are not, but you don't want to get in front of something which can put at least 25 holes in you very quickly. Each shot may not be much, but the aggregate total can be devastating...
I vote S&W. I think that thing is a serious self defense option.
I vote Kel Tec!
I love the content you make. It feels truly unbiased.
I've owned the pmr30 for 3 years now. It has jammed every time i have shot it. I have the Mcarbo upgrades installed. Armalaser, thredded barrel, muzzle break and Talon grips. So it is a sexy paper weight. Every type of ammo has been through it. All jam. I also own the p17. It has NEVER had a misfire ever, so go figure
Did you polish the feed ramp?
I’ve had my PMR30 for 2 years now and absolutely love it. It’s my backpacking gun . It feels like a toy pistol in the hand it’s so light. I feel the fiber optic rear sight is a definite plus over the S&W. I’m not crazy though about the rubber buffer, or having to replace one every so often. If Keltec went under ( God forbid), you’d own a paperweight
Mcarbo has a upgrade.
@@TheGoodguy68 I was thinking long term, like decades down the road. But the more I think about about it, that could be any part off any gun. That was the only negative thing I could say about the PMR30.
I appreciate you breaking these guns down fully literally!
I’d love to have either one, I’ve become fascinated with the 22 magnum round. I keep hearing they aren’t enough for self defense but I’m not buying that. Out of a rifle especially it definitely punches above it’s weight class.
Have had my PMR30 for about 4 years and carry it in an Elite Survival Systems chest rig when mowing the "back 40". No problems in operation at all.
Can't help but notice the slide/frame gap in the S&W. Great way to get dirt in there.
REALLY wish the S&W had fiber optic tubes in the rear sight. That’s the ONLY thing the Kel Tec does better other than price….BUT, by the time you buy the MCARBO kit to make the Kel Tec run reliably, you’ll spend WAY MORE for what is essentially a plastic almost Snap-Together gun!
Glad the S&W came out….that’ll be my purchase for sure now!
Superb review of both competitors, but gotta put more scrutiny on ammo and the mags. I love the Kel Tec but the ones I have fired all had major problems with anything lower than 40 grain. The two S&Ws I fired had no problems with any grain weight from 30 to 50gr. The PMR30 magazine is very sensitive if accidentally dropped when loaded, as the ammo may shift and cause malfunctions. The S&W mag is much more durable and reliable in that regard.
The manual will tell you that 40 grain and up ammo is required for reliable cycling
I have had mine many years. Have done some great mods on it and it’s super accurate and fun to shoot. Not to mention cheap to shoot. That said It used to malfunction at times. Rounds would hang on feed ramp etc. The red dot on the slide may be the culprit. I polished my feed ramp and that seemed to fix it. MCarbo makes a red dot mount also that doesn’t sit on slide. That weight can be a problem in these guns as .22 mag doesn’t have huge amount of blow back power apparently.
I have the PMR and have run about 400 rds with different weights and different ammo. So far not one single problem. Bought mine in 23 so its a new version
If S&W makes a folding version I would buy one as it stands KelTec makes the CMR carbine which uses the same mags as the PMR. S&W could have 2 winners if they made folding versions of 22WMR and 5.7
I already have a PMR30, think I need the S&W M&P... dual wield, of course.
22mag is more than double the power of 22lr. 22lr out a handguns a 75ftlb round out a rifle about 110ftlb where the 22mags about 380ftlb out a handgun in comparison the standard 9mm round is about 400ftlb so its definetly more than double a 22lr and just a smidgen less power than 9mm
At 5ft 6in tall and 155 lbs and small hands … I bought a kel-tec .22 mag for my personal carry … I spent some time putting lots of different ammo through it …. I found that federal ammo 50 grn was the best … it was just plain awesome…. I found that 20 rounds in the mag was the way to go ….it’s So good it’s all I use in my .22 mag rifle by savage …. Extremely effective and accurate… the handgun is so light you don’t know you have one with you … I do not have any jamming issues .. but I buy top federal ammo ….. I’ve shot some living creatures with this gun … head shots lives the creatures dead with the federal 50 grn going straight through their skulls 😁👍👍🏆
I Love S&W but that barrel tube system made up my mind . Kel-Tek would b my choice . I've seen other reviews n the Kel-Tek will run thousands of rounds without issue ! Thank you for the video . Hello fellow Patriots !
Love and blessings to all .
Always enjoy your videos, subscribed. I am confused by the comments on this video. I have a Keltec PMR 30. I live 10 minutes away from Keltec and know people who work there. Great service especially to the locals.
BUT
I think this video is being soft on the Keltec PMR 30. You referred to MCARBO. Go look at their video of a PMR 30 prior to MCARBO upgrades. The PMR 30 stovepipes all over the place. You may be able to get by with 40 gain, but a solid choice needs to eat it all. So I put the $250 into the full MCARBO upgrades. Now this is a $750 proposition. While comments say you just need to read the manual to load the Keltec mags, good luck. Plus how many 30 round mags are you going to manually load unless you preload at home before shooting. I purchased the Keltec OEM speed loader. You feed the round in through the side and punch down on it. It not only dimpled the round it starting having stacking issues as the mag tension increased.
YOU HAVE TO SPEED LOAD THESE ROUNDS. IMO there needs to be more emphasis on this because mag capacity is a major sell point for this rig. You have to be able to carry with one in and hot and ready and have full confidence in performance and one mag on the ready for a 60 rd count, and the ability to swap those mags on the fly. THIS IS A DEAL BREAKER.
Next: that mag release on the keltec is complete BS. The mag will release without having to pull it out, but you have to use your secondary hand to release. The standard mag release much better. I just got one of the last flash suppresser threaded barrel, etc, extra compensator, I threw everything into my keltec to make it work and it will fire 30 grain without stove pipping, but the other draw backs just do not justify the keltec. MCARBO use to have the rubberized stippling and I put that on and it makes a difference, you can always put talon on it if you wanted to improve on that I guess.
I still need to run it since i installed the flash suppressor, but I just dont hold out much hope. I will say the mcarbo upgrade with the trigger gives me a trigger like the freedomsmith pinnacle pro config and it pulls sweet. mag load, mag release and limitation to grain indifference requiring $250 in upgrades is a bit much. I have learned from this that IF I have to improve an OEM design with aftermarket to take any grain then there is something way wrong with this picture.
You made reference to the 35 grain. Did the S&W run them flawless. It just looks like such a better platform. I would have liked to see S&W make a more pronounced safety. The 22WMR is a sweet round and if I knew it would be around during the zombie apocalypse I might think twice. Plus try to put an optic on the PMR 30.
Makes sense the S&W is the go to they had a few years to watch keltec make all the mistakes.
I really want to test fire the two in comparison now that I have watched this. I will see if I can find a rental.
Thanks again, good juju
KelTec gets my money because they innovate.
I just bought the gray version, I'm thinking of ordering a case of..
...22 PUNCH with 45 grain boolits. It might be my EDC, it would a
...great defensive pistol if someone faced multiple attackers.
A pack of aggressive dogs or a group of two legged vermin don't stand a chance.
Earplugs a must.!
Cara vejo seu canal faz anos muito top abraço de Portugal 🙏.
Great sensible gun review. Thank you very much. New subscriber here. Looking forward to much more. I think I’m gonna swing toward the Smith and Wesson. Both guns look great. But I like the idea of the Smith & Wesson being all metal up top. That’s what sold me, thanks again.
The S&W trigger guard is ridiculously small.
Good to see you are still doing reviews!
Great Review!
You could always put some Talon grips on the Keltec.
I have TALON Grips on my PMR30, my Two P17's and my CP33! They Work Great!
Yep it makes the whole gun feel and shoot a little better.
Unfortunately, I can't have either weapon. I really like firearms, especially those with a large shooting capacity. Between Kel-Tec and S&W, I think I would opt for S&W, as Kel-Tec's image was damaged by several videos where it was unable to unload a single magazine without interruption, which was often annoying. Now, it appears that Kel-Tec has solved this problem by swapping a small plastic part for a metal one, but the image of Kel-Tec failing will always be in the minds of its owners.
Want lower recoil in the Keltec? Add enough weight to bring it up to the S&W weight. Maybe something on the picatinny rail.
These guns might be good for the typical urban chimpout, as you are talking about multiple assailants, not just one or two.
Let's see if Ruger comes out with their version of a 22wmr piston, say modelled on their 5.7.
I hadn’t heard a gun company was making a 22WMR semi-auto handgun. I mean I knew Kel Tec was making one, but as everyone knows they don’t actually firearms. They make paperweights on a 3D printer in some broke feminine studies major’s federally subsidized dorm room. At least that’s my impression judging by their products. Now that S&W has stepped up and started making one I will have to pick one up.
Sent my PMR30 to MCarbo, and WOW! Smooth as silk. I like S&W, but they cannot compare to the PMR30, especially when upgraded by MCarbo.
Was in the Luke AIR Force base exchange and saw a Keltec sitting in the case and was excited to find and then purchase. I proceeded to tell the person that I was also looking at the new smith but wasn’t confident that I would be able to find one because they were unavailable everywhere. They had just received 3 and I bought the smith. Have not had the chance to shoot it yet
Its a great fun gun. Love mine, I see some upgrades that might make the gun slightly more reliable. But for $250.00 I will pick up a Taurus TX22 and love it as well.
Thanks for the video. Just bought the pmr 30 and looking forward to getting it.
It will make you want a CMR 30 aw well. Its a super neat rifle. .22 Mag from a rifle is no joke.
The Smith "looks" more pleasing to the eye to me than the PMR30 and I have had a PMR30 for 10+ years.
Nice review. I have both and at this point im not sure which I like better.....I'm not sure one is better than the other, they are just different. I was just about to get a WMP when the Smith came out. I still probably will because I like 22 mag.
I had the firing pin on my PMR30 break. I really wasn't impressed with the type of steel they use. Hard, but very brittle steel. I felt like they could have stepped down on the hardness a bit, especially given the shape of the firing pin. Makes me reluctant to want to rely on it. I'm considering the M&P .22mag. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that it functions more reliably and the parts are probably more robust.
Get the S&W bro, you'll fricking love it no issues at all!
@@TysonMike-c5u I'm thinking about it. Might wait and see if they come down in price.
I also had my firing pin break. I bought three redesigned replacements with few problems so far.
The AMT 22 auto mag is a great gun. I have one. I like it better because it’s all steel. The drawback it doesn’t hold 30 rounds. But it is still the best of the three.
Yeah maybe,but the discussion begins and ends w 'its not 30rds'
I have the PMR30 and find it a good gun, comfortable, accurate and easy to use. I love S&W but would not invest in another 22mag auto pistol.
I also have one and I love this gun and I now have over 1000 rounds at the range! I also have Two P17's and a CP 33 and all great shooters!
I see the smith and Wesson as the slightly superior. More solid, less plastic. And not held together by screws.
I was hoping you would do this video. Thank you.
Thanks Chuck!
I love the low profile slides They both make the WMP look chunky - even Hi Point-ish in comparison.
I have access to a pmr 30. Love it, my favorite gun to shoot, $16.50 a box makes it relatively cheap to shoot, the accuracy is very good..Ear protection is definitely recommended....😅😅
i have a gen 1 sub2k and love it and have purchased some items from mcarbo for it. my wife and i had the pf9 and p11, both of which would cause a hot spot on my trigger finger with that big curve, i have large hands/fingers. would like to try the pmr30 to see how the trigger feels on my finger, i like kel-tec's innovative style.
I had the CMR and it never ran right so I sold it but I have the Smith and the Walther and love both.
While I have had a PMR for years I do like the looks and features of the SW
I'm rather skeptical that those rounds are going anywhere close to the advertised velocity out of a sub-5" BBL.
BBTI suggests they're probably going closer to 1300fps, same as a 22LR out of a rifle
Yep
I have both and I prefer the Smith. I like running Hornady 22 Magnum 30 Grain V-Max.
Nailed it again. Last 2 minutes is the fun factor 😂
Fired the PMR. CC a V2 Shield 9mm.
I can see how the half-slide design leads to more recoil.
OTOH, I can't trust a firearm I can see through. Perhaps it's just the gun in your test, Sootch.
Could you recommend me please my first cc hand gun?
I have the PMR30 Gen 2 and the M&P 5.7. The annoying problem with the M&P 5.7 and 22mag is the gap between the frame and the slide at the muzzle end. It doesn’t affect operation just freaking ugly!!
M-Carbo’s upgrades are ridiculously overpriced.
advantages of the S&W over the Kel-Tec. S&W is optic ready. It has a solid frame, standard mag release, textured grip, pop-out magazine, heavier than Keltec, trigger blade safety, crispier trigger break, mag easier to load, it is lower recoil than Kel-Tec, stainless frame VS polymer on the KTec. Thanks to this video I am definitively, without a doubt, getting the S&W. Thank you for a detail description on both guns.
Even on camera, you can tell that the slide velocity of the Smith& Wesson is a good bit slower than the keltec
I've heard a lot of TH-cam video guys throwing off on the new M andp 22 magnum. Because the grip is so square and huge on it if that's the case I'm sure Smith and Wesson will do some changes on future models thanks for the video
I like the PMR-30
Personally, I lean towards the Kel-Tec PMR-30. The higher capacity magazine and lightweight design make it stand out for me, especially considering the .22 Magnum caliber. It seems like a versatile option for both self-defense and recreational shooting
Good,luck, you really need that rebuild kit to make it work properly
@Dm-On-Tele.gram-Sootch0 Scam Alert
The magazine capacity of the PMR30 and the M&P 22 Magnum are the same: 30 rounds.
Same capacity.
The SW barrel, reminds me of the Steyr GB.
I have owned a pmr 30 for 5 years, and it is, in fact, loads of fun
In your description of the parts during disassembly it is obvious why the recoil is less on the SW. 👍👍👍
I remember when Sig developed the PMR called it the mosquito . Then it went to Kel Tech . 🇺🇸 Great videos .
I have a stock PMR 30 and have put 500 rounds or so through it. I have not had one failure. I love it, but I love my smiths too.
I run both the PMR and S&W. I spent alot of time and money with MCARBO mods on the PMR and have experimented with different ammunition. Though it has gotten more reliable with the feed issues after these mods it still is not 100%. I admit they are easy to clear, a simple pull back of the slide and the round will chamber but rarely am I able to run a full magazine without at least one FTF.
I was excited to get the M&P. Hoping for 100% reliable operation. First few magazines had some FTF issue also. Not real happy. I decided to take some of what I learned with the KelTec and MCARBO and did one simple thing. Polished the feed ramp. Since that time 100% reliable operation. Easily have fired closing in on 5000 rounds no FTF issue what-so-ever. The puppy sings at the range. I am still tinkering with the PMR and hope someday to get it to keep up the the M&P but hands down I would suggest the M&P over the PMR from the start. It maybe a bit more but with all the money I have spent on PMR/MCARBO mods the PMR's cost has exceeded the base price of the M&P.
That M&P would be a crazy cool gun setup if it was legal to put a rifle stock on it , with a red dot and backup 45/ 60 round magazines. Im mean its still ,but it could be cooler.
You can see the sear moving in the m&p when you fire from outside of the gun. Pretty weird.
I’m already to invested in my ksg and pmr-30 to switch to the smith dare I say clone guns. I love both companies btw folks no need for a war here.
The Walther looks like a polished Hi-Point 🤣
I thought the same thing
LOL people fixate on a gun's looks but can't hit the broad side of a planet....at least their gun looks pretty while their excuses get increasingly creative.
the walther looks hideous. i bet its by far the most comfortable of the guns to hold though.@@mig50cc
Its ugly, too big and not enough rounds. Gross looking thing!
Great comparison video. I currently have the Keltec, but I would like another 22 wmr for the wife to conceal carry. They are such fun guns to shoot and for older people or those who have hand strength issues a 22wmr is a great hand gun.
I'd like to see both of them compared to the new Walther 22 magnum pistol that seems to have only positive reviews.
I want the kel Tec so bad this should be a great review. Very cool guns still like the kel Tec the sights are awesome my buddy has one is a nail driver!
S&W has really been copying everyone's homework. The reason why I accept that is because all they've been copying are concepts that I like and want to see more of in the market, making the five-seven affordable and three of Kel-Tec's more reliable, using better materials and addressing some opinions on choices like the sub-2000 folding vertically for a premium.
In the end I'd still go with Kel-Tec because of affordability for a plinking and hiking gun, but now even the snobs will be looking forward to more guns in .22 mag
Great video. Don't forget the step child, Rock Island Armory XT 22. Pretty heavy but mine works great. !
Something a lot of people who review these guns don't mention is the amount of power you LOSE when going from a full length rifle to a short barreled pistol. .22wmr is a rifle cartridge with slow burning rifle powder that achieves it's maximum potential pressure in barrels of around 20-25 inches, and when you only have 3-4 inches of barrel to burn that powder you lose a LOT of power. It's why you always hear about how .22wmr handguns spit out huge fireballs, those fireballs are all the unburnt propellant being wasted because the bullet left the barrel too soon to utilize it all. The advertised velocities you see on the box are high ball estimates achieved with extra long barrels. CCI Maxi Mag ammo from a pistol the size of a PMR-30 will only get you around ~1200-1300 feet/second, which is hardly more powerful than 22lr CCI Mini Mags from a full length rifle. Now don't get me wrong, 30 rounds of .22 cal traveling at 1300fps towards a bad guy is a lot of firepower, but suddenly it's not 30 rounds of .22 cal traveling at 2000fps, and certainly isn't "Twice as powerful as the 22lr" even when you consider the lost velocity from shooting 22lr out of a handgun.
I've heard people describe carrying the PMR-30 and similar pistols as "Having an ar-15 in my pocket" where it's really much more analogous to "Having a 10/22 in my pocket".