How We Hone YOUR Engine Block For A Set Of CUSTOM Pistons!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2024
- A massive shoutout to the team at CP Carrillo for engineering us a custom set of pistons to suit our requirements on the 483 Mopar Stroker build!
Shoutout to @EngineRehab for coming out to help as we made an attempt to wrap up the machine work on this build before the new family member arrived! (We didn't make it... lol)
Be sure to check CP Carrillo at the links below:
TH-cam: @cp-carrillo9038
Instagram: cp_carrillo...
Facebook: / cpcar
Website: www.cp-carrillo.com/
Today we're taking a look at the custom pistons we ordered for @ScannerDanner 's 483 Stroker Big Block Mopar build and finishing out the cylinders in the hone!
Be sure to check out the entire build series here: • The Story Of @ScannerD...
Instagram: @jamsionline
Facebook: JAMSI Online
TikTok: @jamsionline
Websites: www.jamsionline.com
www.jimsmachineinc.com
For business inquires: Contact info@jamsionline.com
#bigblockmopar #cpcarrillo #customenginebuild - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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A massive thank you to the team at CP Carrillo for making us a beautiful set of custom pistons for the @ScannerDanner stroker build! You can learn more about CP Carrillo here: www.cp-carrillo.com/
Also a huge thanks to @EngineRehab for taking a few days out of his busy schedule to come down & help out on some machining for this build! More collaboration videos to come!
Powell Machining is another great channel..
So I signed up for this, but I truly had no idea what I was getting. This video shows the amount of attention to detail that you care about Nic and Josh. I am forever grateful for our subscribers who connected us! How freaking cool is that! Can't wait to drop this bad boy in my Power Wagon!
*"NOCK YOUR SOCKS OFF!"*
Injection or carb? Would be neat to see one of the new Edelbrock/Holley pattern units dialed in by an old school master. More episodes-more better.
@user-sd5wg1vg4e while I like the idea of installing fuel injection, what I don't like are any aftermarket electronic parts these days. If I have a problem with the ECM in particular, I'm stuck with only one supplier. What happens 10 years from now too? Things I'm considering and why I'm staying with a carb. Also if I stay with a carb, I have only one single transistor that I have to worry about and it's my ignition module. I kind of like that idea for when the nukes drop 😅
You misunderstoid my comment. I was asking which direction, injection or carb. I was suggesting that the new Edelbrock carb would be a cool addition. Check it out, a new Holley pattern 4bbl with all the upgrade goodies staight out of the box.
@@user-sd5wg1vg4e my fault, yes, I'm staying with a carb and I'm going to let Josh make the call on which one we want
I took a screenshot of this with the blue dye, taking it into the 1 hour photo for a 8x10 and framing it for my local machine shop! Caption will read " Torque Plate or no Torque Plate " 😊😊
My 2 favorite machine shop channels together in one place and not arguing over you does the better valve job. Love it!
Not arguing yet
Had no idea they were affiliated but makes sense why my TH-cam would find both at about the same time
@@troydspain1099 only on tv
And I'm getting the benefits of all of this! Can't thank these two guys enough
I’m glad you enjoyed it. The whole family at Jims are exactly as great as you’d imagine they’d be and more. I’m privileged to get to meet so many great people all over the country who just want to do cool stuff and enjoy good times.
This is the first time I have seen a comparison With and without a Torque plate, WOW!
Very nice work there JAMSI & EngineRehab. Can't wait to see the final build come together. Paul sure picked one of the best machine shops to get this done.
Thanks! Stay tuned! A bit behind schedule with the baby but we will get there lol
Damn straight I did. Thank you!
As always, very happy the cleaning guy was included in the hone R&D. When he goes from broom to hone...man what a journey that is going to be 👍💯👍
The Blue Dykem cylinder... Blew my mind 😲.... Visual Proof of the advantages of a Torque Plate!!
The knowledge of how the combustion front hits the pistons and rings at the top of the chamber and how "out of round" in can be!!
Modern Technology works, so use it! 😁👍💪
NORCAL Stockton in the house. Homeless guy is not to far off. Two great channels working together can wait to see the finish Engine! keep up the great work guys.
This production quality is off the charts on this edit. Well done. 👍
JAMSI quality ber has reached new heights with all the upgrades: Torque Plates, 8 Stone Diamond hone head, Profilometer, etc. Great Stuff guys, congratulations! Excellence in everything! Thanks for the show!
right? amazing!
I saw a great video from Harry's Garage, where he had Carillo forged pistons made. He was restoning a Lamborghini Espada V12. They sent their old 82.2mm pistons and asked for 82.5mm pistons. He loved how the pistons looked so much, he had a 13th made to keep as a work of art.
They mentioned that the Espada would suffer rapid piston ring wear. Back then, those metric engines probably had a 1.75mm X 2mm X 4mm chrome ring pack. 2mm rings are very close to 5/64 and 4 mm is very close to 5/32. I mentioned that those custom forged pistons would have new narrow rings, and some kind of coating that outperforms chrome.
In 2014, I was at a major auto show. They had a cutaway of a modern engine from Ford. Someone pointed to it and said "Look at those tiny rings! How can that possibly work?" I then told a stranger how new rings are made of forged steel and have a performance coating that is an alternative to chrome. It replaced the 2mm chrome plated iron rings. I think 5 people came closer to listen, even one of the Ford sales staff. I then said that these rings put less pressure on the cylinder bore, leading to even longer engine life.
I think some other people asked "Is this sort of thing even possible?" I said "It is if it is done right. People have been turning up the boost and getting away with it on the Nissan 300ZX, SAAB 900, and Volvo brick since the 1980s." I was not going to say whether or not this engine was going to take it, I did not know the history. I also mentioned how my understanding of all this began when I read an article about getting 450 horsepower out of a Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo. It was the May 1998 issue of Sport Compact Car. Once that article explained a heated wire mass air sensor, I knew I could work with modern cars. Some car guys find that origin story fascinating.
Sure, maybe some of the older engines had ductile moly rings instead of chrome iron rings. It was an improvement over the chrome iron rings. Also, I did not say what replacement for chrome there was. However, that is because there is more than one, and I did not want to get it wrong. However, to people who didn't know all the details of piston rings, it made the point.
There is one downside to 2mm oil rings, but us car guys probably won't have it happen to us. Those rings become useless with just a tiny amount of sludge. It often happens when people go the full length that oil changes are called for. Don't fully trust your manual, do maintenance more often. Chemicals are cheap compared to cars.
Some of the old Triumph motorcycle engines used chrome rings in the early days and they had issues of high oil consumption because it took for ever for the rings to seal & often times the cylinder bores would wear out quick causing more oil consumption and compression to drop so eventually Triumph dropped using the chrome rings and went back to cast rings for quicker break in & less ring & bore wear on their engines . Ring technology has come a long ways since the 50s and 60s as well as better piston designs and even the use of better block & cylinder metals for increased strength . My old Harley Davidson repair manual from 1986 says that if the cylinder is to be bored and honed that Torque plates should be used so the bore stays round like it will with the head on it which makes sense for better ring seal & longevity especially on a air cooled V twin engine with a aluminum head. The Evolution engines were the first HD engine that were designed to run for a 100,000 miles before needing rebuilding unless the engine was built on a Monday or Friday lol but mines got 70,000 miles on it now and still runs strong and uses very little oil in a 86 FLHT that's been all over the country and up in Canada a few times . I know guys who have twin cams engines and they've had all kinds of problems with them from cracked pistons to cam chains that broke & cam chain tensioners that the plastic wasn't strong enough to where the tensioners would grind up from the chain & clog the oil pump with plastic and then the engine would seiz and lock up because of the problems they had on those engines so I'm sticking with my EVO because its been so good to me . I've built a few Mopar big blocks so I've been watching this so keep the videos coming & if possible tell the owner when he's going to Dyno the engine we want a Dyno engine video of it to see what kind of power & torque it makes.
We would all be in a better place if everyone put their time in to perfection as your shop does! Much thanks for demystifying the machine shop process for those of us who just assemble!
Came here to simply watch a machining video, and I ended learning stuff! That is NOT what I signed up for! Making me learn sh1t without my consent...unbelievable.
Right? Awesome comment
Ahh, grasshopper! You may be descended from a sponge!!
tricksters
using fine mesh finite element modeling for highly stressed aviation components such as hydraulic valves and pumps we used to see these kind of distortions. when shops then whittled the components out on the nc mills and we tested them you would the see the wear patterns proving out. your illustration on these cylinder bores was excellent. keeps me watching you all.
Better today than yesterday better tomorrow than today you guys keep getting better and better all the time
I love the collar of sharing of ideas and knowledge. I bs just great intelligence and professionalism
Hey Josh, good job buddy !! Luke and I are watching :)
just a suggestion on bore/hone- alternate, start with #2, then 4, then 1, to 3.. heat transfer
I caught Luke by surprise today!
Yesterday I fixed an oil leak between the crankcase (not the sump), the timing cover and the engine block with the method of the syringe and the vacuum cleaner explained some weeks ago in this great channel.
You guys are a great source of knowledge and wisdom. I owe you a beer (or two) from Spain. You saved me a whole lot of labour.
Haha that’s awesome!! Glad it worked for you!
What part of Spain?
@@JAMSIONLINE Near Barcelona. :)
Just FYI, it was one of the first TD engines developed by Citroën (U25/673). A noisy, usually oily, slow, clattery but reliable machine. The clatter comes from the huuuge tolerances between pistons and cylinder walls (up to 0,15mm by manufacturer!). The turbo somewhat warms up the internals, getting a bit quieter while running at temp.
Do you have the name of the video handy. I would like to see the trick, I had a look through the videos but couldn't seem to find one that looked like it might have it. Thanks in advance.
i started watching an was hey where your dad (the cleaning guy) ? an there he is!
you notice how intensely he checked those bores?
You guys are fantastic 🛡️. Keep on keeping on. .👍
to me this was the most interesting of the series so far. those are some thin rings so i see why surface finish is so important.
all of the videos feel that way to me because they are not telling me or asking me what they are doing beforehand lol. So I'm legit watching with the utmost interest! It's so freaking cool to see what I signed up for.
Amazing attention to detail👌🏻
Great work guys!
Man that puts things into perspective 😮
Great work guys it's all about the tools and effort !
Wow guys this was fascinating! I learned what torque plates were from one of your viewers, during the last video of this engine youse did.
Now in this video I saw, with the aid of the red & blue dyes, the definite difference made to the shape of the bore by torquing down the head! (torque plate).
I am flabbergasted by this, you guys rock!
An amazing example of why a torque plate is necessary... Great work
Great video. The refinement in editing is great. Music selection is spot-on.
Can't wait to see more....good content and thanks
"The best thing to ever happen to you...!" Hahaha, that's great...! I'm going to check his channel out next... Thanks for sharing... Keep up y'alls awesomeness
Awesome info, I was told using a torque plate didn't matter. From this video every engine should have it done
I do agree if you have the means its worth the extra effort to strive for perfection, but then again if you dont have the access i feel like the old way is good enough for a tractor or a farm truck, possibly a daily driver. But if its a high dollar engine, race engine, then it should be taken somewhere that has the means to do it right. I guess im saying, imo, its application dependent. One thing i would like to see, because i seen it on another channel where they ran the old 3 stone drill type hone and backed it with a ball hone and said the profilometer numbers were quite impressive, so i would love to see an experiment on an old junk worn block/cylinder to compare both methods. Using the appropriate grits with the old diy method everbody and their brother is familiar with and see if the numbers are even in the same ballpark.
Excellent graphic representation of the benefits of a torque plate, a fact we all knew but never seen so well displayed.
That 4K footage is amazing
Hi Gents! I bet you can't get the smile off Paul's face! What a job Guys Outstanding!
❤ totally! Except I'm a day late. My dog decided to put her claw in my eye and I haven't been able to read comments and reply lol
Interesting process ! Quality work ! Thanks for sharing ! Would love to see the Dyno Numbers !
Really interesting video, and fantastic that you take the time to share your knowledge.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great stuff gents.
First time watching Very nice work 👌 never give up!
Great content thanks for sharing
At the end of the day the you are at the will of the springs in the hone! Regardless of how sophisticated your equipment is there things out of control. Stones can crack, be unusual shape etc .
But there are no "stones" in this set up are there? Both the diamond and CBN hones are formed on solid metal backing " plates" for a better word so cracking is not an issue in either types of hone and as a machine shop you have to rely on the hone manufacturers specifications and their quality control systems. As expensive as I suspect that honing head is I'm sure if there was a problem with one or more of the hones, then the manufacturer would replace it straight away and want the defective ones back to sort the issue. It's no different than having confidence in your measuring system. That it is correct and in specification.
When i built engines back about 20 years ago, there was left and right pistons. Then they started just putting valve releaf in top and bottom to allow for piston to go anywhere and just started doing those. Niice to see a company taking the time and quality to do it right
Jim's automotive Rocks
Nice to see those new pistons on your "mouse mat". Mine arrived a couple of months ago and is in use every day on my PC desk.
Hi from Australia
Hi 😎
Double Hi from Australia 🇦🇺 👍
Triples from Australia 🇦🇺
Hello, what size diamond stones were used for the roughing and finishing operation? In my experience, diamond bars need to be exposed to a new layer of diamond grains as the diamond grains wear out; I grind them on a silicon carbide wheel with large black grains to remove the binder from the bars. Even inside the honing head, I made an adjustable pusher to adjust the cones that open the head pads on which the diamond stones are glued.. It is very convenient to adjust when the honing head begins to make a cone inside the cylinder.
Can’t wait to hear it run.
I will definitely have some test drive stuff on my channel when this is installed, but I'm really hoping to see them put this on a dyno!
Perfection.
Best channel
Agree
Gentlemen, that was great and I look forward to more collaboration! A quick question related to the distortion from the torque plate: would it make any sense (if even practical) to do the boring with the torque plate attached?
Some people do, but I consider boring to be a “rough” process and therefore don’t believe it to be necessary. If you’ve left enough material to finish in the hone, it won’t make a difference if you did or didn’t bore with a torque plate in my opinion.
Well this is certainly an interesting / informative video - Jim & Son:)
Picking up 40hp just from the proper honing and ring seal:)
Plus massively extended lifespan.
That’s how Terry Walters in Roanoke VA…
David Vizard praises his excellent machine work.
Evidently Terry has got this mastered, like you’re becoming the Jedi :)
Terry and David Vizard built a 632 CID BBC
That’s 1060hp on 105 octane.
It’s 13.5 to 1 with an 800rpm idle
It’s a street engine!
You got to hear this thing on the Dyno:)
(It’s Freakish)
A freak of nature:)
My only complaint about this channel is the length of the videos! I always want more ! Great job always guys
Good job
great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
Texas here
Use the torque plate, and also bring the block up to operating temp. Check the shape of those bores again.
Interesting how a little trial and error is simply unavoidable. Assumptions can buy trouble between blocks. Appreciate the attention to detail.
Outstanding video guys, hope you, your wife and daughter are getting good sleep Nick
I'm hooked
Great point on fundamentals. Every engine will benefit from the best technique. Lawnmower to F1.
Please continue to use the old yellowed gauge even though you have a new crisp clear one. 19:20
Back before the CK and B4 Torque plates we cut heavy wall tubing to match the head thickness to load the deck. great video Olds and FE fords are worse what have you foune?
so i have a question about the torque plates. I have known for decades that it makes a difference. my question is, how long would a street engine run before the rings wore the cylinder round? or would todays rings not even do that? I am likely older than "the cleaning guy", my hot rod was built in 1977. so that dates me a bit. back then we used moly rings. and the bores were honed with torque plates. i am just curious.
ditto. i was building small blocks in early 70s
Awesome work as usual! Where does a fella find a honing head like that? I don't even want to run my two stones now..lol. thank you
Awesome
For a small displacement/horsepower naturally aspirated engine, do you think a precision hone like this has _more_ affect to gains in the precision? I would love to have a spare race engine put together to near-OEM spec with a torque plate and all the goodies.. you're in Ft Collins? ♥all you do, tractors and all - mine is a Miata problem.. heh
I wish you guys could have done a consult with Lake Speed Jr at Total Seal piston rings. He’s great when it comes to honing and ring packages.
Hi Jim, I really Like your show, down to earth and not confusing at all. One question, What oil would you suggest as an assebly oil?
New cleaning guy, playing in the trash
You guys make my night when you post the latest vid. Love your work
its so cool that your pop lets u take the wheel on these things despite his wealth of experience and the fact that u guys arent afraid to brjng in someone from another machine shop to make sure your doing this right shows what kinda guys u are and man if u were closer to were i live id gladly have u guys bore and hone my k series block
With modern low friction engines, it is critical to get things right, unless you like not having to change your engine oil because you have already put 10 litres of oil in between service intervals...
Is there no need for plateau brush with the diamond stones? Thanks, great info.
I would love to see you just clean up a 5.9 Cummins block not for racing or pulling contests but for more fuel economy and just a tad more torque. Great Videos and Thank You 🙏
Great vid. So does that mean that when the dykem showed where the bolts were, does that mean that the studs pushed the cylinder inwards??? Thanks.
I dont know why, but It surprised me to hear you guys were from California, though I guess old cars last long enough here to be considered classic without turning into a pile of rust!
I believe only engine rehab is in Cali. I think JAMSI is in Colorado
13 eh? I counted 14-15! Im the gauge police. Your under arrest! You'll be honing for the rest of your life!
Lol. It’s because on the first couple of strokes, the hone hasn’t been expanded out to contact the cylinders. I only start counting once it’s touching w/ some pressure
These two plus Abom79 and Inheritance Machining fill my fix TH-cam Machine Shop viewing every week.
Josh is hilarious
Should also look at cutting edge engineering he gets into some cool stuff...
@@chrisjohnson4666 We all watch the same stuff 😅. Mattys workshop is good as well, plus Clough42 and a load of others.
Nicely done. What hone head is that?
Ok I was surprised to see weird Josh on your channel, but just like you guys he is a great machinist.
Will the liner hone differently to the original block? Curious if that would explain the ‘odd one out’ numbers??
30min in, we understand 😂
Modern technology.
Makes some wonder how they got it so good without.
Now wondering if clamping torque and deformation will change in a measurable way once at operating temperature
Are you going to have enough valley left? 10 strokes at 20 percent?
I, absolutely, have no clue what is going on, but it does look professional and all the blue/red dye disappeared. Good job, I think.
Can you tell me what marking spray that you used? Great video.
Three questions:
1). How well does the Torque Plate replicate the cylinder distortion caused by torquing down the actual head?
2). The compression and detonation of the air/fuel mix acting on the head will put additional tension in the head bolts, will this cause significant cylinder distortion?
3). We didn’t see the distortion in the linered cylinder - is it different to the non-linered cylinders?
My machine shop measures each piston & records that size on top of the piston with a felt tip marker, and then each bore is honed to size for it's own piston for an absolutely perfect sized fit & clearance ( as racing engine builders do ) and as you said when you'd finished, - " For an engine like this, definitely, super, super crtical to get these numbers right ... " - just wondering why you guys didn't go that extra 5 minute step for your customer.
Excellent video, but why no coating on the pistons ?
So, do you have a torque plate for the chevy 5.3 truck motor?
Maybe Porsche or Lamborghini would have been a better comparison because they made tractors too. lol
Seems as if your breaking in the cylinder walls, with the stone, instead of the rings. Wonder if guys that are in racing teams hitting the cylinders will the dingle hone like they used to or just slapping new rings in. I’m thinking after the engine runs the cylinder gets a little smoother, just wonder if a new set of rings would need the new hone, like what guys with nitrous engines do.
Left and right pistons.
🤔 variation in pistons skirts.
Have they allowed for different boar expansion ? Outside to inside boars.
Going a little too far?😁
Excellent example. Torque plate shows the proof.
There's A LOT more than one line of code to chamfer those pistons. I've never written code myself, but I have seen it done in various fields. For a cnc machine, probably takes an additional 10-20 min to program the tool exchange and the new cutting paths.
I don't think Josh was implying it was as simple as one line of code lol. It may have come off that way though.
It’s more they took the time to even do it and it shows how much care goes into the product. The sum of all the small details makes for a product that stands out from the rest. It was a pleasure to work with!
@@JAMSIONLINE I agree. He meant it like a machinist way to say "took the extra step."
I'm just gassing him up more, I know the design time is dozens of hours, programming the machine is easy in comparison.
@@EngineRehab hell yeah dude. That's why I love watching jamsi, they're another prime example of attention to detail. They always put 110% into their work and deliver a quality product.
Notification Squad!🔥🔥🔥
I just wish they made a set for an EZ30 I'll be building next year.
You get a better finish with cbn rather than diamond?