I don’t know what it is but this channel gives me great satisfaction watching father & son rebuilding engines, good to see the cleaner learning how to use new equipment, thanks boys 👍🇦🇺
One of my personal favorites, the odd fire with an old Crane Fireball cam at 450rpm. Yes, it will idle there. Sounds like three Harleys with those old weld it yourself Clifford headers.
Back in the mid 70's I had a 1968 CJ5 with the Buick V6 which I rebuilt put a Mellings cam in it a set of headers and a Holly 500cfm carb on it it was a LITTLE BEAST had tons of FUN playing in the mud and sand with it
I had a Jeep Commando with the 225 engine. It never gave me any trouble, but the clutch was operated by a cable which would break at the most inoppertune moment. The first time it broke i was in downtown traffic in Shreveport LA so as I approached a stop light I would just switch off the ignition as I came to a stop. To go I made sure I was in 1st gear and hit the starter. It would just take off, without lugging, nice and smooth. After this experience I always carried a spare cable. As a side note when crossing the bridge in Pascagoula MS the wheelbase of the Jeep matched the camber of the bridge so that it resembled a boat on a good sized swell. Closest I ever came to being seasick.
Hardest working cleaning guy I've ever seen. Cleaning guy needs a raise! Seriously, great video - really enjoy watching y'all rebuild stuff. Keep up the great work!
I worked at a large Chevy dealer in 1977 when they started putting that odd fire engines in the cheap Malibu. One of the customers asked one time how come the ball on the three speed shifter was so big. One of the techs came up and said the reason they make the ball so big is so you can grab onto that sucker when it's idling. They ran surprisingly good but at idle they would shake the teeth out of your comb.
My odd fire ran really smooth on the stock cam, once I put a the middle ground comp cams camshaft in it would shake a little as it rumbled. I think a huge part of why mine seems so smooth is Jeep put a super heavy flywheel on them so that probably dampens the vibrations a lot.
@@joshuaatkins5197 yeah I don’t know if you have ever seen the dyno graph for the Jeep version, but because the flywheel is so big, the torque and HP curve do not cross, it looks a lot like a 383 stroker curve where it just Carries the torque. They would probably cross if you could rev it out more, but a stock engine stops making power around 4500 due to how poorly the heads flow.
Buick V6 expert here.... I know the engine is longblocked, but there's a couple things on these engines to be aware of. The main one is because of that flat tappet cam. Way back when, when Buick desigened that engine, they messed up the print on the #3 exhaust tappet bore. It's damned near directly over the center of the cam lobe. (and for some reason, they refused to fix it on later castings) Some cam grinders even choose to grind that lobe taper 'backwards' to try and make sure that tappet can spin. With Buick V6 blocks it's VERY important to burnish those bores, sometimes twice. I use the Goodson tool and I'm not sure if anybody else even makes one that works well. Since you're running a flat tappet cam, I HIGHLY recommend grooving the lifter bores to force feed a small stream of oil to the opening ramp of the lobes. These blocks love to wipe cams and with modern blanks, and non-hardened lifter feet, (along with modern oil formulations) a flat cam is a recipe for disaster if you're not careful. This might not apply to this build since I'm a turbo Buick guy and we run split pin cranks, but rod bearings out of a newer 3800 series engine are wider and the same width as the rod. They're a direct bolt in and give larger bearing surface area. With the final HP that Jeep engine is going to make, it probably won't matter. Also, oiling is very important in these engines as well. Especially with the low RPMs the jeeps will see. The way the oil circuits work in timing cover/pump is the low pressure side of the gears is partially starved until the pump can make enough pressure to crack the bypass valve open. Once it's open, then both corners of the gears have access to oil. Here's an article I wrote years ago showing some free efficiency and flow mods you can do to the timing cover. The main one got named the ''earlbrown booster hole''. Drilling that will allow the entire gear faces to have full access to oil without the factory designed pressure drop at low RPMs. It also lowers the head height and gets rid of a couple unnecessary 90's. Since these engines like to make torque very low in the RPM range, you have to be careful not to load the bearings before the pump can get on the clock and start making real pressure. www.turbobuicks.com/threads/how-to-build-a-front-cover-oil-pump.39169/ Also, as another bonus, making the pump more efficient will lower the amount of load on the front cam bearing. Since that area is the first place the engine gets oil, not wearing that out pays dividends all the way thought the chain of bearings and passages. (and eliminates the need for band-aid HV pumps, and thick oil)
Perhaps withe the crap metallurgy of modern cams, it would pay to have the stocker reground? I know these guys have a connection to a company that regrinds cams.
You are and expert on the Odd Fire? not, different engine. Some same issues like timing cover wear. I have run a few odd fires 225 in Commandos not the same as your later ones with 20 lbs max oil pressure for years every day to work and wheeling every weekend with half gear oil and half 10-40 in engine. Including winters. Dauntless engines not the later ones you are an exper on (later even fires) were extremely durable. Had many built later even fire ones as well and even lots of customer cars got upgraded high-capacity oil pumps. Had hundreds of reg customers with Buick V6's in later 70,s 80,s as engines were in so many models, chevy, buick, olds. The Dauntless shown here was a much more durable engine.
@@PMaynard-22 It's not a different engine. It's a different crank style (and distributor). The architecture is the same basic design. The later 20 bolt castings are just slightly different at the deck height and the oil pan rail along with the valley casting. Pretty much all Buick V6's of that era are robust as hell. For what they are, they're very overbuilt. Especially considering the low amounts of actual power they make when assembled. They really don't have any issues with hard parts unless you take the intercooled Grand National engines and DOUBLE the power. And if you get one to fail at that power level, 99% of the time, it's a tune issue that breaks it. ....and the ones I machine and build don't require axle dope in the oil pan to stay together. I'll trust my pump gas/akly 600+hp street builds as proof over one that has to get band-aided with gear dope.
I like watching when y’all are working together. When I was younger I worked for my father and later I worked with him (there’s a difference .) later my son worked for me and until I went on LOA I worked with him. Best times of my life. I hope you both realize what a blessing it is to do so. While I’m on LOA battling the big C. I stumbled on your channel and have been watching all I can. Please more content with y’all working together.
Great video! That cleaning guy has really picked up tremendous knowledge from hanging around the machine shop for a few years. Despite all the detractors and trolls, it's very refreshing to hear your well reasoned explanation of how and why you do things without disparaging other points of view. Also interesting to see the "modern" technology that Nicolaus is bringing into the shop to measure the surfaces, and refreshing to see that accepted by Dad. Great partnership of decades of experience along with modern viewpoint with both clearly respectful of the other's thoughts and knowledge.
This cleaning guy does engines the same way my auto shop instructor did back in the day...watching him work, even using the digital equipment, takes me back. I'm sure that engine is going to be reliable for years to come. I also appreciate the chart explaining how the Oddfire works. Until I had heard about it on the History Channel, I didn't know this engine existed.
Thank you big Man, these are the type of videos I like. A little longer form and you get to see the job from start to finish, a bit more of the machining/polishing/grinding would be welcome as that crank grinder is one heck of a tool. Thank you Sir.
the more rebuilds I see on Buick engines the more I like them. Very good engineering put into that Marque in those days. This is probably the only Dauntless V6 machine shop video on the internet! cool
Hi Gents, I have had 3 even fire 231 engines. 1982 Cutlass , a 1983 Cutlass and 1983 Grand Prix, these engines ran really well considering they all had 2.41 rear gear and 350 trans W/lock-up. Those cars weighted 3500 lbs. and cruise at 70 mph. no problem!! I remember the odd fire 225 I worked for Buick for a while and they also ran well, but like you said would give people fits in the later yrs. with parts mix ups. I really love this channel!! I like the content alot!! Thanks Cleaning Guy and Supervisor!!😁😁😁😁
Had a 1970 Jeepster Commando with a Dauntless, originally came with a Pertronix points distributor that wouldn't run for squat, no parts available, the auto part stores could only get the distributor for an even fire, finally had to build an HEI, used a 350 Chevy distributor with a Buick base, was able to order the various random pickup coil, the reluctor ring and the cap, it ran awesome, it is a whole other lever of research and parts tracking, the only info on the HEI parts were in a 1976 Buick Apollo service manual I was finally able to track down at the college auto shop. Great engines, the sound is definitely unique
@@stephenbianchi7141 They are also the ones that can't sit still... See Now *ME* I can retire and not do anything....Of Course ONLY my Wife and Dogs would miss me if I took a dirt nap!
Dang ! I have not seen a Ring Grove Cleaner in Decades ! I always knew that Engine as a UNBALANCED V6 . But never knew how bad it was .Just knew it was because of the firing order. Thanks for that explanation ! And the Idle was HORRABLE ! That little engine will last for many of years if serviced properly ! Thanks for sharing ! And I learned something today !
Lol. I watch you videos and when your explaining reassembly as you go , I feel a fire deep down rising I loved working on cars and rebuilding engines. It’s so satisfying. Thank You for that
Im so glad that Josh's Engine Rehab brought me here. We are very fortunate to have these old school wizards around, letting the new school cats film them and upload it. This type of knowledge needs to be documented and preserved. They just don't make em like the used to.
I so wish i had a local shop like yall. I run sprint cars and do most my own work, but always just need a few operations done like decking/boring/balancing but local shops always get confused when I bring a torque plate and bring a clearance sheet and whatnot... machinists who know their stuff are worth their weight in gold.
My dad was a mechanic and had his own business, and I worked for him for a number of years when I was younger. He had that same piston ring groove cleaner that you used in this video. It reminded me when I used to use it when rebuilding an engine with the same pistons.
When you mentioned the build-up in the grooves, I immediately flashed on my bosses ring groove cleaner. It was a slightly different design but did the job. There was also a selection dial for ring width and you had to be careful to get it close or less. There was always a chance of actually cutting metal if you chose wrong or set the tension too tight. To tell you the truth I was always a bit intimidated when I had to use it.
Had one of those V-6's in a 71 jeep comando I bought off a farmer, was probably one of the best trucks I ever owned it was a half cab unit, with a 6ft snow plow, it pulled hay wagons, plowed snow{winter of 78} hauled a large wagon of green cut firewood out of many woods and took me 50 miles a day to work in many nasty days of winter. When it rusted out badly I sold it to a lumber Co. who plowed out their lots with it.
15:59 Best explanation of an odd-fire engine I have ever seen, it could be a video on it's own. Maybe add to the title: "Odd-Fire Explained". Thanks Guys!!
Received my "4 stroke" work mat/mouse pad from epic desk. Your design looks great, color and layout high quality. The soft feel and obvious quality of the pad will hold up well over time.
I junked a lot of those old odd fire Buick engines. They would skip a bearing,either a rod or sometimes a cam bearing. Most of the time they would get a SBC, but I did put a few even fire engines in when the customer wanted to keep a Buick v6.
worked on fleet of v6 buicks back in the day. They would run rich because of the foam float would absorb gas. ring wear and cly. wall would wear like that. Check the wear on the bore in the timing cover for the dist. oil pump drive. any wear will cause all sort of problems. We would always just go new and this was a cheap operation
I bought a Jeep with the dauntless in it 40 years ago. Always seemed to have a misfire. After a few months of normal tuneup I realized the distributor needed to be in the right location.. ran great after getting that straightened out… I put headers on it and really sounded like a tractor… couldn’t take it and put a single exhaust back on
my older brother got a new Buick v6 for his wedding present from father in law in the 1959 or 1960 and it ran really ruff, it sounded like it needed a tune up but you folks explained it to me.
When I went to trade school for diesel mechanic, I was taught to install the rings just like you. Only thing different is, coated the sleeve with light weight oil. Oil ring will always wipe the sleeves down during install. Coated both main and rod bearings with light weight oil as well, plasti-gauged dry prior to install of bearings, then coated when everything measured correctly. Great video as always, cheers :)
Just found this video today and the ring gap was a comment I've made on some videos where they get looked over. For mechanics who rebuild they know this but most creators treat it like common knowledge which isn't good for beginners looking for information. Thanks brother
For ring groove clean-up, I've used old piston ring from the same piston you're working on. Just cut and make the tip nice and sharp, cleans up old carbon nicely and is just the right size.
An up view from the bottom of the cylinders when they're getting bored would be cool. The spindle lowering straight down and little shavings falling, i think, would look cool 11:16
Very interesting to see the 1st generation of this engine, as my every day drive ( 97 VT Commodore 3800 Ecotech ) has nearly the final version. Look no adjacent exhaust valves - Buick seemed to be the only GM marque that could design a decent cylinder head. FYI my 1964 Motors manual lists the ring gap at 0.01" for the Buick 198 & 225, which seems a bit tight for a heavy vehicle, so your 0.018" is probably spot on.
I really enjoyed this! My first car was a 1967 CJ5 with this engine in it. That Jeep had a number of problems, but the engine was not one of them. Always ran perfectly and, as you say, had a distinct sound to it that I loved. Thanks!
Lovely Engine I had a 67 Jeepster Commando with the same engine with a Prestolite Distributor .... Fun fact, I needed to replace the starter, I had a unit from a 74 454 ... swapped the nose cone, ran just fine.
I had an old jeep with one of those motors, had over 250,000 miles on it and it still ran like a top. Never knew about the odd fire, so really enjoyed hearing what that was and how it worked.
I remember reading info many centuries ago that rings rotate while an engine runs - so ring gap position is not important, it is going to change. 2 strokes I worked on had pins/pegs to stop ring rotation.
When I put an engine together I like to put the ring end gaps away from the thrust side’s of the piston, I think it stops the ring ends from putting vertical scrape marks up the cylinder wall. I also like to have the top ring end gap facing away from the exhaust side of the engine, I don’t know if it’s right or wrong but it has always worked for me.
My first experience with an odd fire was a wrong distributor cap provided by the SM, which I didn't notice or know about the odd fire even events at 90 while odd events went 150. The other experience I had was split journal when it became even fire was in a machine shop like your cleaning guy, wrong cam. The eventual 3.8 was a great engine and the final form with the counter balance in my opinion was one of the best GM ever produced.
Another odd-fire engine with an unmistakable exhaust note (actually two notes at the same time, LOL!) is the Dodge Viper V10. So is the old Ram iron block v10, but the dual pitch is much easier to hear on the Viper with side pipes.
Bought new 82 Olds with 231. Bought Buick from neighbor same year model. Friend gave me a 4.1 engine . Overhauled it installed it and it ran much better. Only thing I didn’t like was the oil pump in the timing cover which was aluminum. A Chevy pump then cost 20 to 30 bucks , a Buick pump , the housing was over 100. A lot of money for me back then.
add a split pin crank and a balance shaft..... and you get THE!!! smoothest v6 ever made..... the buick 3800 S1/2/3 . i put a nickle on the intake.... and bounced it off the rev limiter..... the nickle never moved 32mpg, enough power, and just durable AF....... . buick had some DAMN good engineers back in the day
I think the 3800 series 3 might have been one of the best V6 engines. They got rid of the plastic intake and awful intake gaskets, which were about the only weakness.
The very same problem exists with the PRV 2.7 litres V6 by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo - which *was* designed as a V8 originally and got 2 cylinders lopped of due to the oil crises. That's the very same engine, which powered the Renault Alpine A310 ... and the DeLorean. Renault, who was the last user of that engine, changed the internals for the last series used on the Alpine A330. Thanks for showing !
Wow! What a nice little engine. Until now I'd only heard of a Dauntless V6 but never actually seen one. Thank you for letting us see it and the work you're doing on it.
Used in some early CJ 5,s and mostly Commandos up to 71. Great little engine had Auto one and manual one,s in 2 different 70 Commandos Manual one had 42lb flywheel and once revs were up and engine Screaming it was unstoppable and would not bog down. Most potent hill climber I have ever seen or driven.
7:36 holy crap!! I didn’t know those existed. I made a compression ring groove cleaner and it doesn’t look all that different from this. I use it for my fairly profitable Nissan VQ rebuilding. Probably 1/3 engines I’ve rebuilt had rings that weren’t stuck, but definitely not completely free, they seem to get that way after 150k-200k miles. I made my tool surfaces out of aluminum to avoid wearing the pistons and it seems to work fantastically.
Very cool. I had a 1967 Jeepster Commando around 1986 with this engine. It had straight pipes and sounded...well it sounded like a fart. My neighbor asked me one time to just back out easy in the morning.
When I was a kid, I acquired a Jeep with an odd fire engine in it. Not knowing any better I threw a bunch of parts/money at it trying to get it to run smoothly at idle . Not until I had a conversation with a neighbor that had owned one previously did I realize my lack of knowledge. I did love the sound that it made with headers and duals and the torque that it had.
My 1975 CJ-5 came with the 225CI V-6. Put in a reclaimed 231CI V-6 that the junk yard swore was a 225. The difference is the 225 valves were feed throught the push rods while the 231 were oiled through passages in the block. Yes I tried to use the 225 head and yea, that's when I found out it was a 231. I think a V-8 would have been too much but the inadvertent upgrade was nice.
I rebuilt one of these back in 1986 for my Jeep. Cool engine with plenty of grunt for these little Jeeps. Man, the days of bore ridges at low mileage !! Thank tetraethyl lead for that. Lead oxide is quite abrasive, and when we took the leaded gas away, bore wear went way down. Some mechanics back in the 80'sclaimed better metal in later engines, but I call bull, as late 1970's-early 1980's were the worst quality from the domestics, but they still lasted longer due to unleaded gas. Now, todays (Last 25 years or so) ARE better metal and far more precise machining.
I think about how once there was no leaded gasoline, several early engines would get burned valves. The lead ash protected the non hardened valve seats.
Had a couple Jeep Commandos with 225 one auto one manual great engine driven daily to work and 4 wheeling every weekend. The manual has 42 pound flywheel and is unstoppable climbing hills it did not bog, just kept screaming as far as traction would allow forward progress. Used to 4 wheel with a group of about 50 vehicles of every type if mine wouldn't make it few would even try. Total dominance in hill climbs especially in long rough soft sand hills. Potent combo but the clutch cables fail often at the pedal end. The ball squished on end would break off so just carried some nuts and a hammer to slide nut over broken end of cable and squish with a hammer. Back on the road short time later but didn't last as long as threads in nut would cut cable some when crimping it with hammer.
I remember the mid 70s when instead of using the Buick engine GM tried to use Chevy engines in Buick to be a work around. I was at a local dealership then and it went so far that customers threatened to sue . So we were replacing engines on almost a daily schedule. I remember crating engines to go back to Buick.
My 1978 Buick Lesabre used a 300 CI 140 HP engine built by Pontiac. It had an 85 mph speedometer and a little buzzer that went off if you exceeded the 55 mph speed limit. The unreasonable speed limit made a lot of money for highway patrol and local police departments.
I was a member of the American Engine Rebuilders Association back in the 80's when I ran an engine shop in Dover, Pa. They used to send out periodic warnings about certain engines that were considered "unrebuildable" and should be given a wide berth. I personally knew of at least half a dozen shops which had to shut because they lost so much money on warranties after trying to rebuild these engines.
Had one of these in my old mud cj5 jeep motor was a tank took everything till the frame and body was not more. We pulled the motor put it in a Suzuki samurai and it’s still going today. Smokes a bit not but never been cracked open far as we know.
I ran into the odd/even fire issue when I was ditching the smog equipment and adding a four barrel holley on a brand new 231 v6 for my ‘81 Pontiac Grand Prix back in the 80’s. A non electronic vacuum advance distributor for the even fire v6 was a one year only item, which was either a ‘79 or ‘80.
I have a '68 Jeep Commando with one of these engines. They sure do sound unique. It's hard to find intake manifolds for it, I tried a Buick manifold, but it's somehow different and breathes oil from the lifter valley. The intake hunt continues...
It’s good to hear where you tell people where you need to be on tolerances some people I know they will lose their Flippin mind on all that and they will spend way too much time completely OCD on stuff that really doesn’t make any difference
Years ago I rebuilt an odd fire V6 Buick - it came out of the factory towards the end of the odd fire era and instead of the cam with the taper snout separate fuel pump eccentric and cam gear, the factory cam had the integral gear and fuel pump eccentric. Tried to use the odd fire taper snout cam available from Isky and it wouldn't go into the block as far as it should.... sent the cam back to Isky and asked them to remove .125 from the rear face of the cam bearing shortening the overall length of the rear cam bearing and cam = only then would it completely slide into the block.
When I tension B.E nuts or bolts I like tension them individually, then do a 360 rotation of the crank to make sure there’s no binding or distortion of the B.E . I had an experience quite a long time ago, when I got an engine back from the machine shop where the B.Es were resized, when I tensioned the B.Es I found that the crank had locked up on just one journal. I don’t know how it happened but one rod end wasn’t sized correctly, as a consequence I like to check as I explained previously.
Great evening to you two and I will say that I wish you were closer to me. I would love to use your expertise on a motor that I have been saving to build for over a decade now. Just worried about something getting missed or going wrong with it after I have scrimped for so long and the collecting of parts has been just as much as a challenge also. Enjoy your upcoming week and hopefully you have a great day tomorrow.
The really funny thing is I talked about this engine with a buddy of mine not two hours ago for the first time in years and now it's in my recommendations
Same thing happened with the '84 Ford 300 I rebuilt in 2020. Looked like it would hone, but honing revealed deep scratches (had broken rings, should have known better). 30 over fixed it up!
Volvo, Renault, Peugeot had a V6 engine with that exact set up in the 70,s In the early 80,s they had changed the crank to even the firing up which made for a smoother engine.
@@skylinefever The second-generation PRV engines, that featured split crankshaft journals to create evenly spaced ignition events were introduced in 1984, which is post Delorean manufacture which (sadly) ended in 1983.
Just a dumb side note you probably already know. The sounds goes really bassy and distant when you zoom into something. (I believe it's a cell phone feature, something like video/audio zoom) However when you have the mics on it's awesome. I highly suggest sticking with the mics full time. Great job, great video, awesome people!
I’m ordering a second mic set, what happens is the cook & the cleaning guy decide to film when I’m at home w/ the mic (I use it when doing voiceovers when editing) so they have to make do lol. Thanks for understanding and for watching! 😄
In 1979 I helped a friend install a Buick 225 into his Sisters Vega wagon. Four barrel carb, aftermarket cam. The trans was a two speed super turbine 300. The variable pitch stator was controlled by a switch placed near the shifter. I believe the engine and trans were out of a 1964 Buick special.
I rebuilt a 1979 231 with an offset crank (even firing) and it was a pain to get the distributer set correctly. Eventually I got it and it was a great engine.
Wow, that is absolutely mind twisting. I have never seen or ever heard of a engine like that. Great job, great video, awesome detail in what kind of engine you are working on. Keep up the great work.
Then there is the 120° Ferrari Dino V6. That has its own intricacies and balance issues. GMC also built 305, 351M, 376 and up to 478 CID 60° V6 engines. They also built a 702 V12 based on the 351M. The block, crank and cam are one piece specific parts but they use 4 cylinder heads, two carburetors and 4 exhaust manifolds. They also built a 648 cube 60°V8. They also built diesel V6 versions named ToroFlow.
What was the deck height of the original pistons. The Buick V6 generally about 0.080" deck height. That is the piston crown is below the deck gasket surface. A -0.005" deck height would be the piston crown 0.005" higher than the deck gasket surface. When Buick gave up on the 215 aluminium V8, they went to an iron V6 of 198 CID. When the General bought the V6 back from Jeep they bored it out a bit to 231 CID with oddfire. Eventually they engineered the split journal rod throws for even fire. The year they changed to the even fire and at a different date they changed the cam with the distributor drive gear between machined in and bolt on.
I don’t know what it is but this channel gives me great satisfaction watching father & son rebuilding engines, good to see the cleaner learning how to use new equipment, thanks boys 👍🇦🇺
One of my personal favorites, the odd fire with an old Crane Fireball cam at 450rpm. Yes, it will idle there. Sounds like three Harleys with those old weld it yourself Clifford headers.
Back in the mid 70's I had a 1968 CJ5 with the Buick V6 which I rebuilt put a Mellings cam in it a set of headers and a Holly 500cfm carb on it it was a LITTLE BEAST had tons of FUN playing in the mud and sand with it
I had a 68 cj5 as well. Holley carb, offenhauser manifold and hooker headers. Don’t know what kind of cam. It was fun.
Thank you for explaining the whole odd firing thing. Very good illustration. 👍
Came here to say this as well.
Indeed. I did now know of a 90 degree V6 that either had offset crank journals or a countershaft.
Buick later updated their V6 to a split crankshaft in order to create an even firing order. It eventually evolved into the GM 3800 V6.
I believe that they went to the splayed crankshaft in late '77.
Not discussed in this video but I found it interesting the way they did the distributor cap
I had a Jeep Commando with the 225 engine. It never gave me any trouble, but the clutch was operated by a cable which would break at the most inoppertune moment. The first time it broke i was in downtown traffic in Shreveport LA so as I approached a stop light I would just switch off the ignition as I came to a stop. To go I made sure I was in 1st gear and hit the starter. It would just take off, without lugging, nice and smooth. After this experience I always carried a spare cable.
As a side note when crossing the bridge in Pascagoula MS the wheelbase of the Jeep matched the camber of the bridge so that it resembled a boat on a good sized swell. Closest I ever came to being seasick.
You know I could watch this guy all day, his years of master craftsmanship is amazing. This would be my career if I could go back in time
I love it when "dad's old tool" gets the spotlight.. have a few of those too- always nice to use it and tell him about it later 🥰
Hardest working cleaning guy I've ever seen. Cleaning guy needs a raise! Seriously, great video - really enjoy watching y'all rebuild stuff. Keep up the great work!
I worked at a large Chevy dealer in 1977 when they started putting that odd fire engines in the cheap Malibu. One of the customers asked one time how come the ball on the three speed shifter was so big. One of the techs came up and said the reason they make the ball so big is so you can grab onto that sucker when it's idling. They ran surprisingly good but at idle they would shake the teeth out of your comb.
They needed to make it 60° vs 90°. Would have quelled a lot of the NVH.
My odd fire ran really smooth on the stock cam, once I put a the middle ground comp cams camshaft in it would shake a little as it rumbled.
I think a huge part of why mine seems so smooth is Jeep put a super heavy flywheel on them so that probably dampens the vibrations a lot.
@@LivedracersteveI'll second the heavy flywheel probably helped.
How can you warranty the engine if the customer does most of the assembly?
@@joshuaatkins5197 yeah I don’t know if you have ever seen the dyno graph for the Jeep version, but because the flywheel is so big, the torque and HP curve do not cross, it looks a lot like a 383 stroker curve where it just Carries the torque.
They would probably cross if you could rev it out more, but a stock engine stops making power around 4500 due to how poorly the heads flow.
Buick V6 expert here.... I know the engine is longblocked, but there's a couple things on these engines to be aware of.
The main one is because of that flat tappet cam. Way back when, when Buick desigened that engine, they messed up the print on the #3 exhaust tappet bore. It's damned near directly over the center of the cam lobe. (and for some reason, they refused to fix it on later castings) Some cam grinders even choose to grind that lobe taper 'backwards' to try and make sure that tappet can spin.
With Buick V6 blocks it's VERY important to burnish those bores, sometimes twice. I use the Goodson tool and I'm not sure if anybody else even makes one that works well. Since you're running a flat tappet cam, I HIGHLY recommend grooving the lifter bores to force feed a small stream of oil to the opening ramp of the lobes. These blocks love to wipe cams and with modern blanks, and non-hardened lifter feet, (along with modern oil formulations) a flat cam is a recipe for disaster if you're not careful.
This might not apply to this build since I'm a turbo Buick guy and we run split pin cranks, but rod bearings out of a newer 3800 series engine are wider and the same width as the rod. They're a direct bolt in and give larger bearing surface area. With the final HP that Jeep engine is going to make, it probably won't matter.
Also, oiling is very important in these engines as well. Especially with the low RPMs the jeeps will see. The way the oil circuits work in timing cover/pump is the low pressure side of the gears is partially starved until the pump can make enough pressure to crack the bypass valve open. Once it's open, then both corners of the gears have access to oil.
Here's an article I wrote years ago showing some free efficiency and flow mods you can do to the timing cover. The main one got named the ''earlbrown booster hole''. Drilling that will allow the entire gear faces to have full access to oil without the factory designed pressure drop at low RPMs. It also lowers the head height and gets rid of a couple unnecessary 90's.
Since these engines like to make torque very low in the RPM range, you have to be careful not to load the bearings before the pump can get on the clock and start making real pressure.
www.turbobuicks.com/threads/how-to-build-a-front-cover-oil-pump.39169/
Also, as another bonus, making the pump more efficient will lower the amount of load on the front cam bearing. Since that area is the first place the engine gets oil, not wearing that out pays dividends all the way thought the chain of bearings and passages. (and eliminates the need for band-aid HV pumps, and thick oil)
Perhaps withe the crap metallurgy of modern cams, it would pay to have the stocker reground? I know these guys have a connection to a company that regrinds cams.
Did nascar run these in one of the lesser series, Busch or arca?
@@jcnpresser I can’t imagine that. These motors are museum pieces.
You are and expert on the Odd Fire? not, different engine. Some same issues like timing cover wear. I have run a few odd fires 225 in Commandos not the same as your later ones with 20 lbs max oil pressure for years every day to work and wheeling every weekend with half gear oil and half 10-40 in engine. Including winters. Dauntless engines not the later ones you are an exper on (later even fires) were extremely durable. Had many built later even fire ones as well and even lots of customer cars got upgraded high-capacity oil pumps. Had hundreds of reg customers with Buick V6's in later 70,s 80,s as engines were in so many models, chevy, buick, olds. The Dauntless shown here was a much more durable engine.
@@PMaynard-22 It's not a different engine. It's a different crank style (and distributor). The architecture is the same basic design. The later 20 bolt castings are just slightly different at the deck height and the oil pan rail along with the valley casting.
Pretty much all Buick V6's of that era are robust as hell. For what they are, they're very overbuilt. Especially considering the low amounts of actual power they make when assembled. They really don't have any issues with hard parts unless you take the intercooled Grand National engines and DOUBLE the power. And if you get one to fail at that power level, 99% of the time, it's a tune issue that breaks it.
....and the ones I machine and build don't require axle dope in the oil pan to stay together.
I'll trust my pump gas/akly 600+hp street builds as proof over one that has to get band-aided with gear dope.
I like watching when y’all are working together. When I was younger I worked for my father and later I worked with him (there’s a difference .) later my son worked for me and until I went on LOA I worked with him. Best times of my life.
I hope you both realize what a blessing it is to do so. While I’m on LOA battling the big C. I stumbled on your channel and have been watching all I can. Please more content with y’all working together.
Great video! That cleaning guy has really picked up tremendous knowledge from hanging around the machine shop for a few years. Despite all the detractors and trolls, it's very refreshing to hear your well reasoned explanation of how and why you do things without disparaging other points of view. Also interesting to see the "modern" technology that Nicolaus is bringing into the shop to measure the surfaces, and refreshing to see that accepted by Dad. Great partnership of decades of experience along with modern viewpoint with both clearly respectful of the other's thoughts and knowledge.
This cleaning guy does engines the same way my auto shop instructor did back in the day...watching him work, even using the digital equipment, takes me back. I'm sure that engine is going to be reliable for years to come. I also appreciate the chart explaining how the Oddfire works. Until I had heard about it on the History Channel, I didn't know this engine existed.
Apparently, he "retired" a year ago (based on some comments I've read). He's just too dependable and hard working to stay at home, I guess.
Thank you big Man, these are the type of videos I like. A little longer form and you get to see the job from start to finish, a bit more of the machining/polishing/grinding would be welcome as that crank grinder is one heck of a tool. Thank you Sir.
the more rebuilds I see on Buick engines the more I like them. Very good engineering put into that Marque in those days. This is probably the only Dauntless V6 machine shop video on the internet! cool
My favorite thing about the old buick is that a buick 455 engine block doesn't weigh much more than a 350 Chevy block.
yeah! seems like black magic. And this little V6 is built like a bulldog with the pan rails and compactness
@@skylinefever
I could have kicked myself for not buying that little Buick nailhead V6 I saw one summer
Hi Gents, I have had 3 even fire 231 engines. 1982 Cutlass , a 1983 Cutlass and 1983 Grand Prix, these engines ran really well considering they all had 2.41 rear gear and 350 trans W/lock-up. Those cars weighted 3500 lbs. and cruise at 70 mph. no problem!! I remember the odd fire 225 I worked for Buick for a while and they also ran well, but like you said would give people fits in the later yrs. with parts mix ups. I really love this channel!! I like the content alot!! Thanks Cleaning Guy and Supervisor!!😁😁😁😁
Dauntless 225 was a much better and more durable engine than the later even fire models.
Good info, thanks. I have a’67 CJ5 with this engine. My son drove it a few times on the property some years ago.
Had a 1970 Jeepster Commando with a Dauntless, originally came with a Pertronix points distributor that wouldn't run for squat, no parts available, the auto part stores could only get the distributor for an even fire, finally had to build an HEI, used a 350 Chevy distributor with a Buick base, was able to order the various random pickup coil, the reluctor ring and the cap, it ran awesome, it is a whole other lever of research and parts tracking, the only info on the HEI parts were in a 1976 Buick Apollo service manual I was finally able to track down at the college auto shop. Great engines, the sound is definitely unique
The cleaning guy sure does a lot of work for someone that retired last year. 😂
He does not do this for money that's a man who loves metal
Guys like him never "retire", lol
@@michaelrockwell9691 You are correct, he is the type of guy that if he wasn't able to be in the shop, he would probably have very short time left.
@@misters28371000% "retirement" is a death sentence for certain people. Usually, it's the type of folks that we can't afford to lose.
@@stephenbianchi7141 They are also the ones that can't sit still... See Now *ME* I can retire and not do anything....Of Course ONLY my Wife and Dogs would miss me if I took a dirt nap!
Dang ! I have not seen a Ring Grove Cleaner in Decades ! I always knew that Engine as a UNBALANCED V6 . But never knew how bad it was .Just knew it was because of the firing order. Thanks for that explanation ! And the Idle was HORRABLE ! That little engine will last for many of years if serviced properly ! Thanks for sharing ! And I learned something today !
As a kid in the 70’s my grandfather had one in his toolbox. Till this video I never knew what it was.
How? The old ring that comes off a piston is the absolute best ring groove cleaner ever produced.
Lol. I watch you videos and when your explaining reassembly as you go , I feel a fire deep down rising I loved working on cars and rebuilding engines. It’s so satisfying. Thank You for that
Im so glad that Josh's Engine Rehab brought me here. We are very fortunate to have these old school wizards around, letting the new school cats film them and upload it. This type of knowledge needs to be documented and preserved. They just don't make em like the used to.
I really appreciate the influence from junior in this video. A great mix of experience and craftmenship with expertise.
I so wish i had a local shop like yall. I run sprint cars and do most my own work, but always just need a few operations done like decking/boring/balancing but local shops always get confused when I bring a torque plate and bring a clearance sheet and whatnot... machinists who know their stuff are worth their weight in gold.
My dad was a mechanic and had his own business, and I worked for him for a number of years when I was younger. He had that same piston ring groove cleaner that you used in this video. It reminded me when I used to use it when rebuilding an engine with the same pistons.
When you mentioned the build-up in the grooves, I immediately flashed on my bosses ring groove cleaner. It was a slightly different design but did the job. There was also a selection dial for ring width and you had to be careful to get it close or less. There was always a chance of actually cutting metal if you chose wrong or set the tension too tight.
To tell you the truth I was always a bit intimidated when I had to use it.
Had one of those V-6's in a 71 jeep comando I bought off a farmer, was probably one of the best trucks I ever owned it was a half cab unit, with a 6ft snow plow, it pulled hay wagons, plowed snow{winter of 78} hauled a large wagon of green cut firewood out of many woods and took me 50 miles a day to work in many nasty days of winter. When it rusted out badly I sold it to a lumber Co. who plowed out their lots with it.
15:59 Best explanation of an odd-fire engine I have ever seen, it could be a video on it's own. Maybe add to the title: "Odd-Fire Explained". Thanks Guys!!
Received my "4 stroke" work mat/mouse pad from epic desk. Your design looks great, color and layout high quality. The soft feel and obvious quality of the pad will hold up well over time.
I junked a lot of those old odd fire Buick engines. They would skip a bearing,either a rod or sometimes a cam bearing. Most of the time they would get a SBC, but I did put a few even fire engines in when the customer wanted to keep a Buick v6.
worked on fleet of v6 buicks back in the day. They would run rich because of the foam float would absorb gas. ring wear and cly. wall would wear like that. Check the wear on the bore in the timing cover for the dist. oil pump drive. any wear will cause all sort of problems. We would always just go new and this was a cheap operation
Indeed. I have heard that new timing covers aren't that great, so TA Performance made something better than OEM or most aftermarket units.
I bought a Jeep with the dauntless in it 40 years ago. Always seemed to have a misfire. After a few months of normal tuneup I realized the distributor needed to be in the right location.. ran great after getting that straightened out… I put headers on it and really sounded like a tractor… couldn’t take it and put a single exhaust back on
my older brother got a new Buick v6 for his wedding present from father in law in the 1959 or 1960 and it ran really ruff, it sounded like it needed a tune up but you folks explained it to me.
When I went to trade school for diesel mechanic, I was taught to install the rings just like you. Only thing different is, coated the sleeve with light weight oil. Oil ring will always wipe the sleeves down during install. Coated both main and rod bearings with light weight oil as well, plasti-gauged dry prior to install of bearings, then coated when everything measured correctly. Great video as always, cheers :)
Just found this video today and the ring gap was a comment I've made on some videos where they get looked over. For mechanics who rebuild they know this but most creators treat it like common knowledge which isn't good for beginners looking for information. Thanks brother
For ring groove clean-up, I've used old piston ring from the same piston you're working on. Just cut and make the tip nice and sharp, cleans up old carbon nicely and is just the right size.
Way too nicely gouge up the land so the ring is tight & doesn't seat/seal against the land.
An up view from the bottom of the cylinders when they're getting bored would be cool. The spindle lowering straight down and little shavings falling, i think, would look cool 11:16
Very interesting to see the 1st generation of this engine, as my every day drive ( 97 VT Commodore 3800 Ecotech ) has nearly the final version. Look no adjacent exhaust valves - Buick seemed to be the only GM marque that could design a decent cylinder head.
FYI my 1964 Motors manual lists the ring gap at 0.01" for the Buick 198 & 225, which seems a bit tight for a heavy vehicle, so your 0.018" is probably spot on.
3 thou per inch of bore.
I really enjoyed this! My first car was a 1967 CJ5 with this engine in it. That Jeep had a number of problems, but the engine was not one of them. Always ran perfectly and, as you say, had a distinct sound to it that I loved. Thanks!
Lovely Engine I had a 67 Jeepster Commando with the same engine with a Prestolite Distributor .... Fun fact, I needed to replace the starter, I had a unit from a 74 454 ... swapped the nose cone, ran just fine.
Some Jeep guys look in junkyards for the few odd fire V6 engines with an HEI distributor.
I had an old jeep with one of those motors, had over 250,000 miles on it and it still ran like a top. Never knew about the odd fire, so really enjoyed hearing what that was and how it worked.
Yes I am a Jeep guy . The odd fire is my favorite engine off roading with that big heavy flywheel ,you cannot stall it when crawling rock.
I remember reading info many centuries ago that rings rotate while an engine runs - so ring gap position is not important, it is going to change. 2 strokes I worked on had pins/pegs to stop ring rotation.
When I put an engine together I like to put the ring end gaps away from the thrust side’s of the piston, I think it stops the ring ends from putting vertical scrape marks up the cylinder wall. I also like to have the top ring end gap facing away from the exhaust side of the engine, I don’t know if it’s right or wrong but it has always worked for me.
Thanks for the video......its an education to see how everything comes together, and the hurdles that crop up.
I had a Buick 225 V-6 in a 1971 Johnson Sea Sport stern drive.Sweet running engine and,very economical to run.
I build my harley engines but love watching machine videos
always something to learn great show.
My first experience with an odd fire was a wrong distributor cap provided by the SM, which I didn't notice or know about the odd fire even events at 90 while odd events went 150. The other experience I had was split journal when it became even fire was in a machine shop like your cleaning guy, wrong cam. The eventual 3.8 was a great engine and the final form with the counter balance in my opinion was one of the best GM ever produced.
Another odd-fire engine with an unmistakable exhaust note (actually two notes at the same time, LOL!) is the Dodge Viper V10. So is the old Ram iron block v10, but the dual pitch is much easier to hear on the Viper with side pipes.
You two do a really good job on those engines you build. I learned a few things along the way too.
You guys really are thorough and the results are outstanding!
Excellent video! Thanks
I had completely forgot the odd fire Buick. But then the memories came right back.
Great little engine. Recommend updating the inlet manifold to an aluminium performance 4 barrel manifold if the budget permits.
A guide on machining prices these days would be really helpful in deciding whether or not to do engine rebuilds . I did my first one in 1967.
Bought new 82 Olds with 231.
Bought Buick from neighbor same year model.
Friend gave me a 4.1 engine . Overhauled it installed it and it ran much better.
Only thing I didn’t like was the oil pump in the timing cover which was aluminum.
A Chevy pump then cost 20 to 30 bucks , a Buick pump , the housing was over 100.
A lot of money for me back then.
Make sure the customer is WELL versed in the cam break in process. Don't want them to start it and just let it idle....
Cool video and process !
Wow a lot of comments on this video. Have one in a 71 cj5. Thank you for this video. Any learning is helpfull especially on these engines
add a split pin crank and a balance shaft..... and you get THE!!! smoothest v6 ever made..... the buick 3800 S1/2/3
.
i put a nickle on the intake.... and bounced it off the rev limiter..... the nickle never moved
32mpg, enough power, and just durable AF.......
.
buick had some DAMN good engineers back in the day
I think the 3800 series 3 might have been one of the best V6 engines. They got rid of the plastic intake and awful intake gaskets, which were about the only weakness.
Would love to hear this thing start up! Great video guys!
Love the channel, you are extremely through when it comes to rebuilding motors. You can truly learn so much here.
The very same problem exists with the PRV 2.7 litres V6 by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo - which *was* designed as a V8 originally and got 2 cylinders lopped of due to the oil crises. That's the very same engine, which powered the Renault Alpine A310 ... and the DeLorean. Renault, who was the last user of that engine, changed the internals for the last series used on the Alpine A330. Thanks for showing !
Wow! What a nice little engine. Until now I'd only heard of a Dauntless V6 but never actually seen one. Thank you for letting us see it and the work you're doing on it.
Used in some early CJ 5,s and mostly Commandos up to 71. Great little engine had Auto one and manual one,s in 2 different 70 Commandos Manual one had 42lb flywheel and once revs were up and engine Screaming it was unstoppable and would not bog down. Most potent hill climber I have ever seen or driven.
7:36 holy crap!! I didn’t know those existed.
I made a compression ring groove cleaner and it doesn’t look all that different from this.
I use it for my fairly profitable Nissan VQ rebuilding.
Probably 1/3 engines I’ve rebuilt had rings that weren’t stuck, but definitely not completely free, they seem to get that way after 150k-200k miles.
I made my tool surfaces out of aluminum to avoid wearing the pistons and it seems to work fantastically.
My friends had a '68 kaiser jeep with that same engine. It started up running rough one day and promptly totalled itself.
I think they start up and run ruff every day
The short block looks amazing . Thank you , Parts Cleaner .
Very cool. I had a 1967 Jeepster Commando around 1986 with this engine. It had straight pipes and sounded...well it sounded like a fart. My neighbor asked me one time to just back out easy in the morning.
When I was a kid, I acquired a Jeep with an odd fire engine in it. Not knowing any
better I threw a bunch of parts/money at it trying to get it to run smoothly at
idle . Not until I had a conversation with a neighbor that had owned one
previously did I realize my lack of knowledge. I did love the sound that
it made with headers and duals and the torque that it had.
My 1975 CJ-5 came with the 225CI V-6. Put in a reclaimed 231CI V-6 that the junk yard swore was a 225. The difference is the 225 valves were feed throught the push rods while the 231 were oiled through passages in the block. Yes I tried to use the 225 head and yea, that's when I found out it was a 231. I think a V-8 would have been too much but the inadvertent upgrade was nice.
I rebuilt one of these back in 1986 for my Jeep. Cool engine with plenty of grunt for these little Jeeps. Man, the days of bore ridges at low mileage !! Thank tetraethyl lead for that. Lead oxide is quite abrasive, and when we took the leaded gas away, bore wear went way down. Some mechanics back in the 80'sclaimed better metal in later engines, but I call bull, as late 1970's-early 1980's were the worst quality from the domestics, but they still lasted longer due to unleaded gas. Now, todays (Last 25 years or so) ARE better metal and far more precise machining.
I think about how once there was no leaded gasoline, several early engines would get burned valves. The lead ash protected the non hardened valve seats.
you guys a good. the picture and explanation of the odd fire makes total sense now
I own a Jeepster with the Dauntless, and didn't understand the odd-fire until your great explanation.
Had a couple Jeep Commandos with 225 one auto one manual great engine driven daily to work and 4 wheeling every weekend. The manual has 42 pound flywheel and is unstoppable climbing hills it did not bog, just kept screaming as far as traction would allow forward progress.
Used to 4 wheel with a group of about 50 vehicles of every type if mine wouldn't make it few would even try. Total dominance in hill climbs especially in long rough soft sand hills. Potent combo but the clutch cables fail often at the pedal end. The ball squished on end would break off so just carried some nuts and a hammer to slide nut over broken end of cable and squish with a hammer. Back on the road short time later but didn't last as long as threads in nut would cut cable some when crimping it with hammer.
I remember the mid 70s when instead of using the Buick engine GM tried to use Chevy engines in Buick to be a work around. I was at a local dealership then and it went so far that customers threatened to sue . So we were replacing engines on almost a daily schedule. I remember crating engines to go back to Buick.
My 1978 Buick Lesabre used a 300 CI 140 HP engine built by Pontiac. It had an 85 mph speedometer and a little buzzer that went off if you exceeded the 55 mph speed limit. The unreasonable speed limit made a lot of money for highway patrol and local police departments.
Then in 77 GM painted every engine in every make "GM Corporate Blue" to throw em off the secnt, and starting in 82 everything was painted black.
Enjoy this channel so much. Cleaning Guy knows so much
I was a member of the American Engine Rebuilders Association back in the 80's when I ran an engine shop in Dover, Pa. They used to send out periodic warnings about certain engines that were considered "unrebuildable" and should be given a wide berth. I personally knew of at least half a dozen shops which had to shut because they lost so much money on warranties after trying to rebuild these engines.
Automotive engine rebuilders association
O yeah why don’t you prove it rebuild my engine I tried ,every bolt I could break off I did and I have no idea how
Different engines not the 225 odd fire here.
Had one of these in my old mud cj5 jeep motor was a tank took everything till the frame and body was not more. We pulled the motor put it in a Suzuki samurai and it’s still going today. Smokes a bit not but never been cracked open far as we know.
I ran into the odd/even fire issue when I was ditching the smog equipment and adding a four barrel holley on a brand new 231 v6 for my ‘81 Pontiac Grand Prix back in the 80’s. A non electronic vacuum advance distributor for the even fire v6 was a one year only item, which was either a ‘79 or ‘80.
I have a '68 Jeep Commando with one of these engines. They sure do sound unique. It's hard to find intake manifolds for it, I tried a Buick manifold, but it's somehow different and breathes oil from the lifter valley. The intake hunt continues...
It’s good to hear where you tell people where you need to be on tolerances some people I know they will lose their Flippin mind on all that and they will spend way too much time completely OCD on stuff that really doesn’t make any difference
Years ago I rebuilt an odd fire V6 Buick - it came out of the factory towards the end of the odd fire era and instead of the cam with the taper snout separate fuel pump eccentric and cam gear, the factory cam had the integral gear and fuel pump eccentric. Tried to use the odd fire taper snout cam available from Isky and it wouldn't go into the block as far as it should.... sent the cam back to Isky and asked them to remove .125 from the rear face of the cam bearing shortening the overall length of the rear cam bearing and cam = only then would it completely slide into the block.
Sounds funky glad it worked but why
When I tension B.E nuts or bolts I like tension them individually, then do a 360 rotation of the crank to make sure there’s no binding or distortion of the B.E . I had an experience quite a long time ago, when I got an engine back from the machine shop where the B.Es were resized, when I tensioned the B.Es I found that the crank had locked up on just one journal. I don’t know how it happened but one rod end wasn’t sized correctly, as a consequence I like to check as I explained previously.
Great evening to you two and I will say that I wish you were closer to me. I would love to use your expertise on a motor that I have been saving to build for over a decade now. Just worried about something getting missed or going wrong with it after I have scrimped for so long and the collecting of parts has been just as much as a challenge also. Enjoy your upcoming week and hopefully you have a great day tomorrow.
The really funny thing is I talked about this engine with a buddy of mine not two hours ago for the first time in years and now it's in my recommendations
I’m super excited to see the Scanner Danner engine machining videos that you’ll be doing with him! SUPER EXCITED!!
Thank You for the explanation!! I always wondered why it was call an odd fire!! Made my day!
Same thing happened with the '84 Ford 300 I rebuilt in 2020. Looked like it would hone, but honing revealed deep scratches (had broken rings, should have known better). 30 over fixed it up!
Ring groove cleaner - what a brilliant tool. I have always used just a broken ring - hurts fingers and takes for ever .
Hi just a quick note my “the four strokes” mouse mat arrived today in the UK , looked great as described many thanks Paul
Volvo, Renault, Peugeot had a V6 engine with that exact set up in the 70,s
In the early 80,s they had changed the crank to even the firing up which made for a smoother engine.
Aren't those the PRV V6s that ended up in deloreans too?
@@snoofayy6150 The PRV did get used in the DeLorean. I do not know if they still used an odd fire crank at the time.
@@skylinefever The second-generation PRV engines, that featured split crankshaft journals to create evenly spaced ignition events were introduced in 1984, which is post Delorean manufacture which (sadly) ended in 1983.
Yep, Dad is A Great Machinist clean up guy and wonderful Dad and Teacher!!!
17:58 hey! I also have an odd fire engine in my truck. I have a dodge magnum v10. It’s a 90 degree v10 and fires every 90 and 54 degrees.
I install a Buick 225 V-6 in 1939 Chevrolet ( It is Volvo Penta aq 150B/200). Great video.
Just a dumb side note you probably already know. The sounds goes really bassy and distant when you zoom into something. (I believe it's a cell phone feature, something like video/audio zoom) However when you have the mics on it's awesome. I highly suggest sticking with the mics full time. Great job, great video, awesome people!
I’m ordering a second mic set, what happens is the cook & the cleaning guy decide to film when I’m at home w/ the mic (I use it when doing voiceovers when editing) so they have to make do lol. Thanks for understanding and for watching! 😄
Well just as long as they're not trying to collect overtime, all is good! haha.
I and a friend of mine swapped a Buick 225 into a 73 Vega GT and used the factory Vega 4Speed.
In 1979 I helped a friend install a Buick 225 into his Sisters Vega wagon. Four barrel carb, aftermarket cam. The trans was a two speed super turbine 300. The variable pitch stator was controlled by a switch placed near the shifter. I believe the engine and trans were out of a 1964 Buick special.
Nice video! It's pretty cool that you have done videos on both a Buick 340 and the 225 V6.
I rebuilt a 1979 231 with an offset crank (even firing) and it was a pain to get the distributer set correctly. Eventually I got it and it was a great engine.
Wow, that is absolutely mind twisting. I have never seen or ever heard of a engine like that. Great job, great video, awesome detail in what kind of engine you are working on. Keep up the great work.
Then there is the 120° Ferrari Dino V6. That has its own intricacies and balance issues.
GMC also built 305, 351M, 376 and up to 478 CID 60° V6 engines. They also built a 702 V12 based on the 351M. The block, crank and cam are one piece specific parts but they use 4 cylinder heads, two carburetors and 4 exhaust manifolds. They also built a 648 cube 60°V8.
They also built diesel V6 versions named ToroFlow.
What was the deck height of the original pistons. The Buick V6 generally about 0.080" deck height. That is the piston crown is below the deck gasket surface. A -0.005" deck height would be the piston crown 0.005" higher than the deck gasket surface.
When Buick gave up on the 215 aluminium V8, they went to an iron V6 of 198 CID. When the General bought the V6 back from Jeep they bored it out a bit to 231 CID with oddfire. Eventually they engineered the split journal rod throws for even fire.
The year they changed to the even fire and at a different date they changed the cam with the distributor drive gear between machined in and bolt on.
If you really want to see an unusual V6 engine, look at a VW VR6. They are actually well balanced, I thought that would not happen.
Thanks I have one of these engine in my Jeep. I might be getting in touch with you when I do mine.
Great use of experience, and new technology. Thanks for sharing
Would love to hear that run when it’s done!