Middle Ground aims to bring empathy and provoke understanding on both sides. Thanks to our cast for being vulnerable and sharing their experiences. If you like Middle Ground, make sure you subscribe to let us know you want more.
These videos are actively harmful. Read your comments and see what your editing supports. Clearly, this video has supported the views of transphobes. As trans healthcare is being stripped away, children are being kidnapped for being trans, and hate crimes continue to skyrocket, I am honestly shocked that you would 1) make this video and 2) edit it like you did. This is dangerous and will only harm trans people. There’s a space to hear from detransitioners, but this wasn’t the space as it wasn’t an honest representation of people who detransition. The vast majority of detransitioners are trans - they just couldn’t continue with medical transition due to financial/social factors. Because I’m tired of responding to everyone asking the same question of “how do you know?” -> Source: Factors Leading to ‘Detransition’ Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis”
@@Mary-ec6zh puberty is also perminant so ur putting trans kids thru what they will spend the rest of their life trying to change.don’t call life saving medical care disgustingly
well, luka wasn't trans to begin with. both she and her parents f'ed up. real trans people shouldn't have to suffer because people like her made a mistake and regret it
@@Je-jt5bv THAT’S THE POINT!!!! 🤦🏽♀️ This is exactly what’s going to happen if we let young children who don’t even know what they want for dinner to get on puberty blockers. SMH.
Telling luka “ it’s your parent’s responsibility or fault “ is the whole point. Luka was a child. The gaslighting is unbelievable . Luka is an example of how the child needs to grow up first before medically transitioning.
I think we’re not seeing that it was the adults in Luka’s life who were pushing her towards that decision rather than Luka herself asking for surgery. The adults made the choice for her. What pro-trans people are saying is that children should be leading the way not the adults. So it’s the parents fault to listen to everybody except Luka. It goes both ways, we should listen to trans AND cis youth.
Well even lot of adults that transition detransition. If you let or accept your child transitioning or being other gender then it encourages then at eighteen they will just do it.
@@TheCiddie let's just be clear here. Children shouldn't lead the way in anything. A child's job is to learn, to play and to listen. Not to lead. Letting your kid lead you will not end well for anyone.
Luka carried herself so gracefully. The way she would continue her conversations without letting her feelings take over even though they were attacking her We hear and heard you Luka. Keep pushing and spreading your storyline people need to hear it ❤
Her story is important and valid, but it is about a Medical mispractice, the healthcare providers she was seeing we're simply 💩, and have definitely failed her. But presenting it as a typical experience that trans kids go through is just simply not the case, as others on this very panel have told her, if you look up other trans people's stories, you'll find that typical GAC is infinitely more rigorous and lengthy, and it is demanded by the patient himself, very few trans people feel like they were ever "pushed" into something, in fact, it's quite the opposite, usually they're discouraged from transitioning both by their parents AND the medical staff.
I didn't really like the way the trans side would say "trans kids are valid" but would completely invalidate Luka's detransistion experience by saying she was misdiagnosed.
@@p4nd4b01 and thats a perfect example of why children shouldnt be able to transition at a young age, if children in abusive situations are given this opportunity to transition it leaves them vulnerable to be in even more mental (and possibly physical pain also, like luka) in their adulthood.
The two replies here are like, completely braindead. I completely agree with you, they try to look for the stupidest / out of focus thing to blame it on the detransitioner. Point blank is: Parents were told "Trans or kid dies", so they responsibly listened to the doctor, and the doctor failed as a profesional. It's not about: "Oh but you didn't have GD / That was your parent's fault". It's about NOT transitioning kids/teens because kids/teens DON'T KNOW what they want in life yet. It seems like explaining basic child caring.
@@tong8619 I think it’s actually quite upsetting and messy. Its sad how dismissive a lot of the trans community/supporters can be to anything contridicting their points, because it makes people feel like you’re being transphobic or aren’t with the trans community at all when that isn’t actually always the case. I support the trans community, to an extent, because yes there are a few things like this that I disagree with and that should be okay. And I’ve seen a lot of doctors and surgeons go with the transitioning because they’re scared of being judged or “cancelled” ect not because it should be recommended
Telling Luka "your parents are responsable for that" after saying kids know themselves better and should make the desision by themselves sounds like gaslighting to me.
It makes me have no sympathy for anything the others said as soon as they started dogging her like that, she's so sweet too, it makes me really upset lmao.
It is 100%, they can't follow their own logic when faced with the consequences. They can't tell Luka to her face that it was her fault for making the wrong decision because it wasn't her fault, because they know she was just a child. Yes her parents did mess up, but in the current environment and the emotional blackmail, the fault lies more with the "professionals."
@@erivida64 not even the professionals, more the activists am politicians. Here in Spain they make it ilegal for medics and physiologist to do anything but affirm people transition.
So it is “insulting” and “abusive” to children for their parents to decide what is best for them, because no one knows that child better than the child. But when the result of that is unfavorable then it’s the parent’s fault because it was their responsibility to have made a better decision for their child? Some people are never wrong, even when they refute themselves.
it's insulting and abusive for DOCTORS to perform MEDICAL MALPRACTICE. was that not clear from the video? Or were you watching something else while you were typing this?
I really hope Jubilee comes back to this and edits this video because it has incorrect information about things like puberty blockers being reversible. It's been known for a long time they aren't.
they all said “you know who you are best” until luka was talking about her mental health and samantha goes “i think you were misdiagnosed” like the hypocrisy is absurd.
Luka's case clearly differs due to the amount of trauma she suffered, especially with the fact it was bodily. It's honestly so heart-breaking. I think misdiagnosis is maybe not quite correct as she probably felt gender dysphoria due to the danger she felt from being a girl, not from being trans, and the medical process she underwent was so unbelievably wrong and harmful. Had she undergone proper therapy, like you're supposed to while transitioning, somebody would've recognised her trauma and dealt with that before treating her as a trans patient. That being said, people do know themselves better than anyone else but therapy is a necessary step in the transitioning process to know that people aren't conflating a different internal struggle. Luka's case is, honestly, abhorrent and she never should have had to go through that. It was completely the wrong treatment to a mental issue she was going through.
Luka: I think parents should be able to stop their kids from transitioning without feeling guilty Samantha: That would take away from human autonomy and kids should be able to make the decision themselves Luka: Ya well look how that worked out for me Samantha: Ok well that's your parents fault they should have stopped you
I don't think it's gaslighting, i think Luka refuses to take accountability for what happened to her. She is wholly putting the blame of transitioning on the trans community and being misinformed about what dysphoria is. She was a traumatized girl with body dysmorphia. I beleive she was wrongly diagnoses yes, but I think that any resistance that the medical professionals or parents or friends made wouldn't have made a difference. I think her mind was made up at the time and it was a mistake sadly. She deserves to share that story, but it seems more like she doesn't beleive trans people exist, only hurt traumatized people who need therapy and that's just not true. There are people genuinely born in the wrong body, and you don't have to take down one person or group to support another.
I know yet they are such hypocrites! She’s talking about how she went to the clinic one time, and already had an appointment for a surgery or whatever “gender affirming care”. Then they start saying how that’s just one bad doctor. You think there is only one!! The fact that these people can say trust the kids and how they feel, or how do adults know what they want more than a kid because none of us know what we want. That is just horrifying! Yet they see the downfall of that in Luka, and just say maybe you were misdiagnosed. It’s just disgusting and horrible to see such ignorance.
I'm a detransitioned cis woman too and I really saw myself in Luka. I started transitioning at 19 instead, but she and I had the same reasons for why we believed we were trans and had the same operations. I hope she is doing well and I just really related to her completely, with the mental health portion too. I'm glad I could see someone similar to myself on here. Thank you.
Eh what do you think would be the point at which they're brought up enough? Theres no 'enough' just it is what it is. Should's and merit are illusions we put to reassure ourselves but they don't exist.
Ok so I'm a Trans person and I think anyone with proper critical thinking skills (regardless of whether they're trans or not) should be able to see how wrong and unhealthy it is for a CHILD to transition.
See I appreciate that. It's turned me completely off of accepting anything trans. You give them an inch, they take a mile and try to shove it in your everyday life. I was once a bernie supporter. Use to be.. I appreciate you being honest and real.
yes. truthfully told what Luka said at 1:43 should the end of it. it was very eloquently presented and tbh open and shut case. many of these kids question their gender, that's normal. but there are very real, permanent results from children transitioning before puberty, and as Luka said, many of these kids grow up to be a gay/gnc adult. Just let them/yourself grow up and figure what you want. honestly the trans and detrans movement are part of the same fight. somone else commented "being against children undergoing permanent gender transition does NOT make you anti-trans." and that's important to understand. we ARE for the ability for people to transition and figure out their presentation and self image the way they want, but regulations do need to be in place for kids who are questioning their gender, for their mental AND physical well being.
It's one thing to have the more honest and reasonable opinion but she didn't really seem interested in defending herself whenever the others gaslighted her. Sticking to your guns doesn't mean much if you are not a marksman.
children know themself but their parents are responsible for making sure they dont make life time long decisions. Trans youth should be going on puberty blockers and social transition max not go through surgeries or go on T/E
@@NightlyCirrus not even that. all that stuff will mess with them even more. puberty is a tough time for all kids, they are lost and finding themself at the same time. disturbing that process is a big NO-NO imho. if they feel like they are the opposite gender, they can just cross-dress and be what they wanna be. are there even any long term studies on the effects of hormones and puberty blockers on kids ?? ridiculous.
@@EpicBunty so yeah dont speak up on topics wtih such certainty if you havent even done MINIMUM amount of research to know that YES there has been COUNTLESS studies on effects of puberty blockers on kids (as if the name on its own wasnt suggesting that its made for kids (ADULTS DONT GO THROUGH PUBERTY)) Puberty blockers simply put a pause button on your puberty, once youre off the pills your puberty resumes as normal. And theres been countless studies that have shown that puberty blockers have no effect on future fertility issues, it can cause bone issues though but thats why puberty blockers arent assigned in a "oh hey i want puberty blockers" "oh okay! here you go" no. You have a doctor that you go to to make sure your body can take puberty blockers and then have regular visits while youre on the pill to make sure theres nothing wrong going on. Dont speak up on issues you havent even looked into especially if they can have a tragic outcome
@@EpicBunty i dont know why its deleting all of my replies?? but so yeah dont speak up on topics wtih such certainty if you havent even done MINIMUM amount of research to know that YES there has been COUNTLESS studies on effects of puberty blockers on kids (as if the name on its own wasnt suggesting that its made for kids (ADULTS DONT GO THROUGH PUBERTY)) Puberty blockers simply put a pause button on your puberty, once youre off the pills your puberty resumes as normal. And theres been countless studies that have shown that puberty blockers have no effect on future fertility issues, it can cause bone issues though but thats why puberty blockers arent assigned in a "oh hey i want puberty blockers" "oh okay! here you go" no. You have a doctor that you go to to make sure your body can take puberty blockers and then have regular visits while youre on the pill to make sure theres nothing wrong going on. Dont speak up on issues you havent even looked into especially if they can have a tragic outcome
children knowing themselves does not mean they need surgery it means they need gender affirming care and blockers that's why its Lukas' parents fault cause they let their child get a life changing surgery instead of the proper therapy that she needed
I was just thinking that how can you say children know what they want to your parents are to blame..well when they kids decide to transition..will it be the same blame..” they” are so delusional..let kids be kids and when the children become of age to know the difference let them go through with the transition….ppl want to push this so bad it’s disgusting
@@ericamagnes2186 children in fact, do not know themselves. Adults barely know themselves. Some trans people need surgery, some do not. And blaming her parents for their decision in a scenario that the vast majority of people have 0 understanding and experience in is so out of touch with reality. Blaming an individual's decision in a broken medical system is one of the peak liberal identity ideas that has helped no one but the most privileged members of the queer community. The fact that transphobes will see this as fodder for their views is irrelevant. The reason why we're here is because of the insipid talking points of mainstream LGBT+ culture. Not Luka's parents being ignorants who should've read gender theory.
The people agreeing with letting children transition literally contradicted themselves. “Children should have autonomy” to Luka: “It’s your parents fault for making the wrong decision.” Wtf??
i'm pretty sure the first statement was in reference to allowing children to get puberty blockers in order to have "bodily autonomy" over their puberty. hormone blockers, being reversible, are not as serious as a permanent gender reassignment surgery, speaking generally. in Luka's case, the people involved in her transition should have been better educated and Luka deserved better, but questioning children should be able to explore things and speak with therapists and have hormone blockers and other non-permanent changes with the approval of their guardians if it comes down to it. so both can be true.
Lukas point about the bodily autonomy thing was actually extremely valid and they jumped down her throat for it. You can’t just preach autonomy when it fits your agenda.
But in that very same discussion, three of them told Luka they had a much lengthier process to transition, and she didn't listen or care. Just continued saying that because it happened to her, it's the norm. I feel bad for her, I really do. But if only 1 out of 8 of the individuals in this video had a snap if the finger diagnosis and surgery, it does not sound like the norm.
@@darkfire8008 whether or not they went through lengthier processes, a child's mind is not developed enough to be absolutely 100% certain they won't regret this decision in the future. the time taken for this "lengthier process" is just not enough, its not enough YEARS.
Everyone attacking LUKA are the prime example what is wrong with the community. Someone in that community is telling you the horrors they have experienced but the SAME people in the community are telling you she is wrong and her feelings are not valid...The hypocrisy so sad
It was so strange how they were trying to blame every individual involved in the situation rather than the system. Blaming the parents and medical professionals while at the same time saying that kids should have there own choice
@@jackoberto01 they blamed the parents and the therapist. The process isn't the issue. Majority of trans people are very very happy. This individual was misdiagnosed by a therapist and their parents should have gotten multiple opinions.
They didn't attack. They simply said the therapist and her parents were in the wrong. Not the Healthcare system. Whenever you're making a life altering decision you always seek multiple opinions.
They literally tell Luka, "That's not happening!" Luka responds, "It happened to me." and they respond by saying "Well you need to get a second opinion, hunny." Like LMFAO what? You said it wasn't happening. That's a lot different than "Sure, it's happening, but when it happens you need to know to go and get a second opinion to keep it from happening." That's straight up deranged.
@@lillianweaver-beck408 source plz. And I also want to know when how many years has people been trans. Coz this wide wave of trans is only less then 5 years (I says wide wave not trans ppl in general)
@@lillianweaver-beck408 what about all the adults who transition and then regret it. I mean if adults are having trouble... so kids are even better at knowing if they're trans? Make it make sense. It's clear many are making a mistake. We just forget about those people? Or we address this "affirmation only" nonsense now and prevent needles injury or worse. Thats all I'm saying.
But It would be a misdiagnosis if she’s not actually trans, wouldn’t it? Unless she’s talking about gender dysphoria /now/ as a result of detransitioning after having a double mastectomy, and in that case, the only treatment option would still be exactly what the transitioners claimed; gender affirming care. She just didn’t clarify whether or not her diagnosis was obtained before or after she detransitioned, so I couldn’t expect them to know otherwise.
@MadsHonk how can it be a misdiagnosis when all the people of the medical community have to go off is the patients own feelings there is no tests to ensure someone is experiencing gender dysphoria this is exactly the reason why I feel any type of medical intervention for kids is very wrong, even puberty blockers, it's known now that puberty blockers arnt reversible like everyone used to claim
@@SleeperInTravel I’ve seen you comment this like three other times. You don’t feel bad for her, you’re just looking for validation of your own transphobia.
As a former trans person who thankfully never went through with transition, there is pressure to be trans. The trans community never acknowledges detransitioners because they don’t want to acknowledge what influence they have had on kids. Kids should not transition. It’s a decision only an adult can make. And if you detransition these people will pretend you don’t exist and you will be so isolated. I love my detransitioned peers. I see you.
Similar phenomena occur in various communities, such as those with autism, ADHD, and others. People often self diagnose, which can lead them to learn about the condition and begin to identify with it. A prime example of this is the TikTok Tourette’s trend, where young people began exhibiting symptoms of Tourette's without actually having the disorder. These behaviors were essentially "phantom tics," self imposed yet involuntary as a way to fit in. People are motivated by a desire for acceptance and fear of being ostracized, which leads them to mimic what they see in their environment. This pattern also applies to behaviors like being drunk or high.
Luka is the only person with the experience of being a minor during this surgery and they gaslit her the whole time. No one else can speak on the surgery as a minor other than her because they haven’t had that experience.
yes kinda, but she isn't trans so she can't speak for trans minors. But I did really agree with her talking points about having safe barriers for children. very complex topic
@@blueberrymuffin7207 Denying detransitioners their experience is genuinely disgusting, there is also no clear long-scope evidence yet to support that gender dysphoria doesn't just end up fully going away with time if teens do not use gender affirming care. Of all the evidence that currently exists, virtually all people that choose to not use gender-affirming care in their teens will stop feeling gender dysphoria. Granted, 80% of these people end up identifying is gay, plenty of research and studies on the topic.
@@aliemaza5241 Korte 2008, Steensma 2013, Drummond 2008. Just a few of the studies that show this. And mind you, there are no reliable studies to support the opposite, all of them have been heavily criticized in the scientific community.
Hearing luca describe her detransition and how her body is today broke my heart. You can tell that she deeply regrets this and is in a lot of pain mentally, physically, and emotionally. I hope one day she will find peace in herself and forgiveness.
Listen, what happened to Luka was horrible. It really is; it's a situation caused by years of abuse and medical negligence. However, that does not mean that one story negates the research/evidence that gender-affirming care works WHEN USED CORRECTLY. It would be like saying marriage shouldn't be allowed because you experienced domestic abuse.
@@misanthrophex Its not a crime against humanity. All people on earth make mistakes that they have to life with. The overall regret rate for elective surgeries is way higher than the regret rate for medical transition. If you dont believe me feel free to look it up: the regret rate for transition is around 1-3%.
Kinda disappointed with the trans folks, Luka was very upfront about her gender disphoria and the mistakes that she was lead into as a kid, and they kept dismissing it. She says she still has gender disphoria to this day and they say, “I think you were misdiagnosed”- she opens up about the effects hormones and surgery had on her body, and they say “That was your parents”.
I'm not. It revealed what everyone already knows. This whole thing is bullcrap, and the medical industry is in on it for the $$. These people need medication and therapy, not surgical mutilation.
I agree. I kinda felt they dismissed that these cases can happen. There are more greedy doctors out there, and many don't give af. It's a very valid conversation. Plus it's new to most parents. How tf are parents supposed to know
Everything Luka said was so heartbreaking. Especially at the end of the episode. I hope Luka reads these comments and sees just how many people are out here that would be honored to have her as part of their community.
The transitioned folks literally contradicted themselves by going from “a child should make their own choices with their own body and should be able to transition” and it quickly turned into “it’s your doctors fault for allowing you, it’s your parents fault for allowing you” like WHAT???
I think more so they mean that children should be able to make their own decisions with proper education and proper medical examinations from professionals (with a second opinion). Atleast thats wha I took away from their statements.
Luka didn’t deserve to be gaslighted about her experience. There are MANY people who have gone through a similar experience, and are be hushed like Luka. Continue speaking Luka, your voice is heard!!
@@owen3721 No dude. No. Gender dysphoria is a symptom that can indicate many different things, one of which is being transgender. But gender dysphoria is a symptom of other conditions too. DID is the first one I think of. At that point in her life, Luka did, in fact, have gender dysphoria. Her point was that she should not have had the final say on her diagnosis being both a child and a non-professional in that particular field. Meanwhile everyone else in the circle was saying that children know the cause of their symptoms better than anyone else and should get the final say. And that is a perfectly valid disagreement. If she was misdiagnosed, it was because of how that exact sentiment failed her in her youth. It IS gaslighting to say that putting "children's autonomy" above all else does not make Luka's experience possible.
They were so disrespectful to Luka and made totally nonsensical retorts. How are parents supposed to intervene to stop transition if no one knows the child better than themselves? How are medical professionals supposed to diagnose and stop kids from transition and misdiagnosis if no one knows but the child?
I totally empathize with her story, but please keep in mind hers is really an edge case. Trans people are already only 1% of the population, and detrans people are less than 1% of those 1%. While it is still important to listen and have empathy for her, we shouldn’t base our entire understanding of trans ppl on her experience, not all trans ppl only have dysphoria because of trauma, and her case is very unique.
It really shocked me how much they attacked her in the first (or second i can’t remember) question. I appreciate her composure. They were all retaliating against her but i can tell she is the most intelligent person out of this group to speak on the subject as she has had it happen to her.
They blamed the doctors and the parents for both making wrong decisions that no doubt contributed to what happened to Luka. No one is blaming Luke for what happened.
“That’s on your parents” “that’s on the doctors” i can guarantee you she’s not the only minor that has happened to.. Edit- yall fiesty in the replies.. I’m saying the same thing Luka is saying.. unfortunately as a child before puberty your body isn’t developed enough.. As Luka explained the body will shut down as it’s not medically advanced enough
my opinion on this is she was medically abused and there is no but or if after that, not her or her parents fault. she is valid and so are her experiences, she is allowed to live these and i think she deserved a real psychoanalysis.
The thing is: as we grow up, we go through the process of figuring out what gender even is. Young children don't have a deep understanding of sex and gender differences, and learning that takes time. When we go through puberty, we feel a level of dissociation from our own bodies due to perceived development. From a psychological standpoint, it is REALLY difficult to tell if a young person is really trans or if they're going through a specific stage of questioning their identity. When questioning who we are, it's important to be able to change our minds whenever we want, and with something like medical transitions, any possibility of going back is negated due to the irreversible nature of such a process.
Them: "Nobody knows you better then yourself, thats why kids should be allowed to transition" Luka: "I was medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria" Them: "You were clearly misdiagnosed" Them: "Kids should be allowed to do what they want to feel gendered affirmed and parents should not have control over it" Luka: "I regret my transition and i went through the proper steps" Them: " Well thats your parents fault they should have stopped you" Luka: "The system is bad, parents are scared into transitioning their kid." Them: "No, the system is fine, all your doctors were all just wrong. You're experience is not typical in the research papers I Googled so they are not valid"
Not only are they literally gaslighting luka THEY WERE LITERALLY CONTRADICTING THEMSELVES AT 9:13 "don't go to doctors to transition just because you're feeling a certain way" ISNT THAT WHAT UR FIGHTING FOR? TO HAVE CONTROL OF YOUR OWN BODY AND TO ALLOW MINORS TO HAVE SURGERY????!?!?!??!?
Luka deserves a ton of credit. She is arguing against emotions with facts and logic, and is still getting gaslight and told that her facts and experiences are incorrect. As a psychologist, I couldn’t even believe that the other cast members directly told her that she didn’t really have gender dysphoria, and that the psychologists who gave her that diagnosis were wrong. The denial of experiences and facts is really baffling.
If her psychologist told her that she should transition after one session, then for sure her therapist was wrong, she probably could sue them for malpractice
@@brettpid6416 literally most states today still allow conversion therapy, no therapist is obliged to tell a pacient they're transgender, there is no such rule or law, and that's not even what gender affirming therapy is
@@brettpid6416 Affirmation isn't how you're interpreting it here. When someone comes to a therapist with an issue concerning their gender identity, therapist affirms it and then comes extensive evaluation of the reasons why a person thinks so. During that evaluation therapist must also check for other conditions. All of it takes several sessions. That's how it usually works. If someone diagnosed a person, minor or adult after a single session - I don't think they're qualified to provide these services.
they’re not belittling them, in fact during their conversation they agreed on a lot more things than were shown Jubilee likes to make it look like they are disagreeing a lot more than they actually are for views
Because they have to justify that a detransitioner is an anomly and a special case and not common at all. If they actually are honest there reality falls apart and they have to deal With 🎉he consequences
It’s interesting how people can support minors getting transition surgery and/or puberty blockers, yet they cannot consent to sex with an adult, buy alcohol/tobacco, or even consent to get a tattoo or piercing. It makes zero sense
They would be doxxed and sued into oblivion by trans activists. Myself and most healthcare providers I know are absolutely against medically transitioning children, but the topic has become a political narrative devoid of all nuance and reason now. We have to just go along with "affirmative therapy" and watch children get butchered.
I think it's gonna be hard to find the disagreeing side, since it carries the risk of being cancelled or labelled transphobic, which can negatively impact their livelihood
@@anthonymc8361 true but I think it’s not even that they have to agree or disagree personally. I think it could be more focused on the science and theological ideas that a lot of people argue and whether they agree with that or not. Ie gender/ sex, mental disorders, statistics, things like that
You are not the first commenter who says that, but I really don't see it. I really feel like they listened to her. They just acknowledged that what happened to her is not standard procedure but rather medical malpractice.
the way they reacted is about to send this discussion backward; bigots would use this as 'trANS PeopLE IndoctrinAtIng KIds--" propaanda, its so disappointing
@@godisapigeon8530 she said she was diagnosed with gender dysphoria and they told her she needed a second opinion and completely disregarded it, so unfortunately, while what they were saying might be true, they came at it in a disrespectful way :/
There's no such thing as "gender dysmorphia." It's gender DYSPHORIA. If someone has gender DYSPHORIA, they ARE trans. But you can be trans and NOT have gender dysphoria.
WAIT WAIT WAIT….the trans people say young people should be allowed to do whatever they want with their bodily autonomy but when the detransitioner who had the double mastectomy at 16, asked what she was supposed to do when her health team said she was trans when she was not, they ALL blamed her parents and said that they should’ve stepped in. But isn’t that EXACTLY what you guys are fighting? Parents rights to step in and make bodily decisions on their kids behalf to protect them? Crazy
The reason why is because they didn’t get a second opinion from medical professionals and that was partially their fault, w/ the bodily autonomy statement there is an idea already placed that there has been multiple opinions from medical professionals because it tends to take that and yes this was a very tragic event that happened to luka but this shouldn’t be at looked or placed as the fault of trans people, this is partially the fault of Luca’s parents but mostly the medical professional who didn’t guide them to other people as well
@@Sebayee In a number of jurisdictions, the defacto treatment for gender dysphoria is acceptance and beginning transition. Practitioners are afraid to take a wait and see approach due to being accused of transphobia.
i don't understand how this is ironic?? it makes complete sense if you think about it. her parents and therapists didn't give her the time and freedom to fully evaluate everything about herself before shoving "quick fixes" at her. if her parents backed off and gave her more therapeutic options she would have had the opportunity to understand herself better and avoid the horrible stuff she went through. please take some time to think about and evaluate what you say before jumping to conclusions based on preconceived notions you have.
@@shelbymarsh4945 The trans group specifically stated that minors should not be making PERMANENT body-altering decisions, like surgery, but should be able to have autonomy when it comes exploring with reversible transition options, like hormones. Maybe you should rewatch the video because you obviously missed pretty crucial aspects of the discussion. I am sure they agree that no child should be getting a double mastectomy before even going on hormones to explore their true identity. It's an unfortunate case and the majority of them did in fact acknowledge that.
@@carleydegruchy7964but as we're starting to find out, hormones (and puberty blockers) are not reversible. Gender is a made-up social construct that's literally just clothes and behaviour and varies from region to region, so why are we permanently messing around with the natural development of people's bodies when you can just accept that you like to dress however you want & then go on cross-sex hormones/get surgeries as a body mod if you'd really like to when you're an adult?
The extent to which hormones are reversible is not solidified scientifically, in fact there is very little long term research on trans individuals. Most studies are flawed and wouldn't pass AT ALL for any other disease or mental health condition outside of gender dysphoria. While the field is difficult to study, the way they have treated results is... disappointing at best. A child needs information to form a basis for an opinion from somewhere. Parents, media, professionals, all can influence a decision. Giving a child "space" simply means allowing OTHER forms of influence to take full control. As a society, we have determined that minors DO NOT have the autonomy to make decisions for themselves. Whether this be a tattoo, marriage, sex in some regions, etc. etc. We have decided a woman CANNOT get a breast augmentation prior to 18 even if they have CRIPPLING body dysmorphia. Yet we allow those under 16 to undergo permanant treatments that have no long term studies to back their efficacy? Pretty insane to me. @@carleydegruchy7964
Luka did NOT deserve to be treated that way. She made valid points and cool calm and collected. They escalated the conversation and would not let her have a full sentence come out her mouth. My Lord so rude to her
As a Black, Christian, Woman, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to everyone’s perspective. Although, I don’t agree with everything, I am learning to respect and show love to EVERYONE!! ❤
So easy just to pretend desistors and detransitioners "were never really trans" or didn't have "proper gender dysphoria" it risks their whole reality to be open minded about it.
“You know yourself better than anyone! Even better than your parents know you!” Two seconds later to someone she met 5mins prior: “you’re not XYZ, you’re wrong about yourself” 😅 crazy to me she didn’t even realize the irony in her statement
someone who is not trans and perceives themself as the gender they were assigned at birth does not experience gender dysphoria. it’s as simple as that.
now that they have medically changed their bodies they could be seen as having gender dysphoria as they are experiencing 1/10th of what trans people feel but before making those changes no it is clear she was misdiagnosed. no cis person truly feels gender dysphoria
@@RG_Eph Sam (trans girls with curly hair) is actually friends with Luka now I believe. I think Sam has a lot of empathy for her but I do think all of them dogpiled on Luka a lot - more than they did Shape or the other girl or David.
@@RG_Eph girl with long black hair was the FIRST to cut her off. First to invalidate her. First to tell her she was misdiagnosed, as if it’s her place. Not empathetic at all
From the moment she spoke, you can hear the pain in Luka's voice. She is clearly well educated on the subject, but not only that, her experiences deserve to feel validated. I really wish nothing but the best on her journey through life. ❤
Of course her experiences should be validated. It's incredibly heartbreaking to hear she had that experience! On the other hand, her experience doesn't necessarily correlate with the experience of others and I think that's what people who underwent detransition oftentimes forget. They want to desperately protect others, even though those others might not feel the same way they do. I can understand being scared and feeling like your experience isn't valid, but that doesn't mean you should invalidate other people's experiences. That will only cause more hurt.
@@11ozzielover and vise versa. Both sides deserve to be heard and acknowledged and especially considered before anyone transitions. Speaking on the cons of transitioning is just as needed as speaking of the pros.
Luka is a strong intelligent voice with PERSONAL experience backing up her opinions and discoveries along her path - and her experience in the trans community at large - and the MEDICAL community and healthcare system… keep speaking up and educating people.
Her experience is radically different from a typical trans child. It's disgusting that she wants to ban care for trans youth because she made a mistake.
@@CantooniShe said herself multiple times that she experiences gender dysmorphia and still does even after de-transitioning. It was stated by one of the other people that "nobody knows you more than yourself" and to invalidate that by saying she was just misdiagnosed kind of defeats the purpose of that statement in my opinion.
@@ecw613 so she had mild gender dysphoria, or her dysphoria was probably causes by previous traumas SO her transition wasn't needed. She needed therapy first (at least 1 or 2 years).
She said herself that her dysphoria comes FROM trauma and that it wasn't discussed first or treated at all, and she immediately got approved for surgery without going through all the NECESSARY psychological procedures first, not only was she in some way misdiagnosed, but she was mistreated and in some degree a victim of malpractice because the wrong procedures and treatment were applied to her when she didn't needed them. She should have had plenty of therapy to actually have enough time to properly talk about her situation to THEN decide if surgery was the actual best option, you don't just go to any doctor and get a gender reaffirming surgery like it's freshly baked bread, there's a whole process that SHOULD go first, specially for minors, that she didn't go through. This is not trans people's fault, this is not Luka's fault, this is not the other people in the room's fault, it's the doctor's fault, and the issue with Luka here is that she explains her experience as a way to create a discussion of "I am the reason why kids transitioning is wrong" when in reality what happened to her should NEVER happen to anyone because it's a crime.
Listen, what happened to Luka was horrible. It really is; it's a situation caused by years of abuse and medical negligence. However, that does not mean that one story negates the research/evidence that gender-affirming care works WHEN USED CORRECTLY. It would be like saying marriage shouldn't be allowed because you experienced domestic abuse.
It really is amazing how a bit of cinematography does wonders for someone's palpability. It's scary how sad violin music convinced so many of you to feel bad for this person
@@AcetylCoA605 there will be people who regret it no matter how much therapy they go thru before transitioning and there will be people genuinely happy that they did transition.. everyone won’t have the same experience. That’s the first thing everyone has to understand.
it's funny that when Luka had a bad experience about her transitionning, they without blinking blame their her parents as responsible for her bad journey. They just without knowing said that kids don't have responsibility in taking a big decision on their bodies and parents are the key holder of their kid safety
Exactly. He said " that's your parents fault for letting you do that,, because they have say so over what you do" But than they said it's inhuman for parents to not allow their kids to transition because it's abuse lol. Which one is it?!?!?!
No. Actually they were talking about how Luka’s parent did not do their due diligence and instead just took her to any yahoo they could find instead of researching and finding a reputable doctor.
@@jonathangill6584no but if a parent goes to a bunch of different doctors just to know for sure the kid who’s brainwashed will go online and blast his/her parents for not being immediately accepting about it
I firmly believe that they should be advocating for mental health services first as a priority. I think it's absolutely insane to be pushing young children into transitioning. Please stop this madness
@8:50 When Luka gave the example of how the medical system took advantage of her, Luckie immediately said her parents were responsible for that happening. But two seconds ago they all said children should have the autonomy to make these decisions for themselves? so which is it? If kids needs parents to oversee their transition and protect them from any malpractice, they clearly aren't ready to make such a decision at that age.
YES!!!! Exactly. they can't have it both ways. And if a parent was to put their foot down and say, no you cant have those medical treatments, then the Trans community would be coming after the parents accusing them of being bigots and denying the child care!
Their whole existence is based on confusion. (Dysphoria is a synonym for confused) so its no wonder that their opinions on the topic contradict itself and don’t make sense.
@@marcosbravo4293 It's her experiences? You're so easily unraveled by someone sharing their pain and experiences? Get a life bozo. Your problems are not more important.
Purity blockers are permanent!! children shouldn’t be allowed to get castrated. As a parent you shouldn’t be penalised for not encouraging your child to do it, seek help and advice and be a parent to your children. When they were arguing with Luka they all said “ your parents are responsible “ EXACTLY a child can not be responsible!!!
I don’t think Luka or her parents should be blamed, clearly it’s the doctors fault for misguiding her parents. They should honestly sue if they haven’t already.
Luka handled herself with such compassion and intelligence. She brought such an vital perspective to this conversation. I loved this episode and I’m so glad Luka was a part of it.
@@Artliker1234 and doctors convincing parents to agree to risky surgeries and hormones by telling parents their child or will be self ending their life if they don’t transition isnt dishonest and emotionally manipulative?
@@SuperSarahbop it is abusive of the system, but its already hard enough for many to find proper gender affirming care. the answer is not to limit it because of bad actors, but provide funding resources for people to get therapy and proper care for transitioning and remove stigma around what it means to be trans(which luka also sadly experienced)
I had gender disphoria in puberty, turned out I am on the spectrum and bi, let kids explore themselves without mutilating their body (can't believe I actually have to write it..)
Luka comes out the strongest in this debate. Calm, eloquent, passionate and reasonable. Well done. Everyone else seems like they’re on a mission to repeat slogans.
i hated how everyone jumped at her when she asked if kids should be able to get tattoos etc and they got MAD lol it’s TRUE. if kids shouldnt be able to put permanent tattoos on their body, why should they be able to make the permanent medical transition of removing their breasts or genitalia …? like ??
@@juliakirk2444 Perhaps because no transsexual (or at least the vast majority) wants children to have permanent surgeries, when they say they want them to have treatment for their gender dysphoria, they are generally only talking about pubery blockers that are reversible, which is not no child mutilation.
The way Samantha and the other transitioners are trying to invalidate Luka's story is not only disturbing, but it is dangerous. You don't invalidate someone else's story just to validate your own.
Luka stayed really calm and collected and spoke very intelligently, and almost everyone tried to silence her. She deserved better from this conversation.
The pain I hear in Lukas voice is just so heartbreaking, and the fact that anybody would want to try and diminish or invalidate her experiences is incredibly aggravating.
And I feel like a few of the transitioned individuals attempted to do that. Kind of throwing away her experiences with "oh well then others messed up (but everyone consented and went along with it)" shifting blame off the situation to whoever it sounded best for in that line of questioning. It was sad. I feel for Luka. She's had a rough series of events, and I hope she finds the things she needs to work through the trauma that was ignored in her youth. She doesn't deserve to have to live with that burden for the length of her life.
Protecting the narrative is more important than listening to someone who's experienced things debunking it. It's TOTALLY an ideology, damn near a cult.
I think that it should be REQUIRED to have a minimum of 2yrs of psycho therapy if you want to transition and/or do cosmetic surgeries such as BBL's, Plastic surgeries on the face, and some bodies, and some weight loss surgeries especially if younhave had 1 in the past. because some of this is just mental and desperate need of mental health care.
The amount of empathy that Samantha lacked is INSANE. She came, sat next to Luka, immediately prioritized her own opinion of child transitioning over Luka's traumatic experiences with blatant acidity in her words, rudely cut off her response and was just overall noxious in her attitude towards her. This woman telling her traumatic experience offended her and she made no qualms about coming at her for it. I am blown away.
Luka can’t prioritize her own experinece over the majority of trans kids transitioning helps. This kind of debate should be based on facts and data, not personal experiences.
@@soph1645 Well the facts are you can't change your gender/sex. You can't change race, eye color, hair color, or height either. Best you can do is mask it.
Luka did not prioritize her own experience. She simply used that as an example to why people need to set boundaries to letting children explore the possibilities without going through surgery as such a young age! Seriously not hard to set boundaries.
Hate how Luka was repeatedly shut down for having a different perspective. She believes she was pushed and her parents were scared into her transitioning. That’s valid. And many children who were transitioned in haste in the name of fixing their “hardware” will feel that way in the future. I can’t imagine the medical issue these people will have.
@@drensky777 I feel bad for people like jazz Jennings and Chloe cole they. Jazz went through transition because his mom Wanted a girl, and now he’s suffering through depression and anxiety because of all the mutilation surgeries, his case reminds of David Reimers case from 17 years ago. Chloe Cole stated that it was so easy for the surgeries to happen, the doctors basically lied to her parents about her mental state to push them to sign the consent form. What I see is Greed, Harm, and borderline Paedophelia.
She had the most logical points. How could any medical professional say "do you want a living son or a dead daughter?" Or whatever. That's literally just emotional manipulation and it's the go to move in the Trans community. To hold you hostage.
It’s so insane how rude they were to luka, the transitioned side was so intolerant to any views and they had a lot of anger, we’re always over speaking And invalidating experiences
I don’t think any of them came at Luka in an angry way. If anything they were just defensive which makes sense considering trans people are attacked across the country.
@@tenscar6131 In my opinion Luka was very condescending and kept trying to generalize the entire issue by making it seem like her experience was normal. What the mental health "professionals" did to her is not what a normal gender affirming treatment process looks like, it's severe misconduct and probably illegal. It shows that the question whether GAT should be banned is not the issue, but rather that we should have stricter control and guideline enforcement in the medical industry. But she didn't even consider any of this, instead she deliberately tried to paint all medical practicioners in a bad light. The ironic thing is that she keeps saying how her trauma made her believe things that weren't true but doesn't realize that it's happening again: her trauma of being misdiagnosed made her believe that this is what ALL trans people experience even though she is a part of only 0.4% of all trans people who detransitioned because they felt that they were actually the gender that they were born as (Source: Hildebrand-Chupp, Rowan. (2020). More than ‘canaries in the gender coal mine’: A transfeminist approach to research on detransition. The Sociological Review. 68. 800-816. 10.1177/0038026120934694.).
@@paracosm-cc it’s actually disgustingly common throughout our healthcare system. They are vile and they are leaches. Do you know how much money they make from all of this? They receive anywhere between $200,000 to $300,000 for each client who transitions. This price includes surgery’s, medicines, therapists, & more. FOR ONE PERSON! It’s all about the money. It is ALWAYS about the money. These people do not want to help you and so yes. MOST of these “Doctors” are going to give you an easy pass bc it is an easy buck
- Luka talks about how doctors took advantage of her and how a kid must have guard rails over their actions -Every trans person AGREES and just tells her it's a one-off thing "miss diagnosed" SMH -Arisce: I always knew who I am and no one knows me better; minutes later "you had to get a second opinion honey" "Your parents are responsible for the decisions they made on your behalf" => the parents aren't the ones suffering in her body :v
That's insane when I heard that. Totally dismissive of Luka's experience. The lack of accountability in their own words is insane. How they argue against parents putting strict boundaries, but then say it's the parents and doctors fault. Such cowards just shifting blame as soon as it doesn't fit their agenda. "Oh you're a de-transitioner? It was your parents and doctors fault." "Oh your parents doesn't support you transitioning? Well they're being oppressive and transphobic." Make it make sense.
The argument they try to make is children aren't impressionable and know themselves better than anyone with life experience or wisdom. They also contradict it by saying parents are at fault if anything negative happens.
Oh wow the hypocrisy from samantha, luckie, and arisce is very disgusting and discouraging to this discourse. Especially from Samantha saying people need diagnoses but telling Luka she was misdiagnosed.
Luka told herself that she had a trauma and that´s where her gender dysphoria stems - so she clearly was misdiagnosed. Not with gender dysphoria but with being trans. It seemed like Samantha didn´t know that gender dysphoria could have other causes or maybe it was just a misunderstandig and she thought that gender dysphoria stemming not from being trans but from other causes is called body dysmorphia for example. It also seemed like Samantha understood the point of Luka having gender dysphoria because of a trauma.
The way they treated Luka during the first promps is shameful. I feel so bad for her. I hope she is ok and healing, she is clearly still suffering and it makes me sad to see the others weren't able to address they different points of view with more empathy and care when talking to her at the beginning of the video.
Perfect example of if you don’t fit their narrative, they don’t claim you as part of the community. Interesting to see they all agreed on the prompt that the LGBTQ+ community is not as loving. That’s exactly how some of them treated her and a couple of others in this video. They have to be so defensive and get that affirmation for themselves. Even if it’s okaying transitioning so early on to children. Sad.
she was being rude and was practically claiming that all trans experiences are like hers in that they’re ALL getting abused and exploited and taken advantage of when theyre not. She’s being defensive of a single position, that’s why every had an issue w her
@@awesxmeasfxck that’s subjective but she didn’t come off as rude to me just passionate . However their responses were rude. They don’t like anyone going against their ideology and community. If anything her being a former trans person makes her even more credible to conservative ideology that trans lifestyle is more mental than anything. Trans ppl are very condescending in their approach if you don’t agree with their perception of reality. And all the videos I’ve seen especially with the black trans women they are very disrespectful to “cis “ black women and see it as a competition
i thought they were really pleasant to luka. i saw no disrespect, others tried to understand luka validate but also put feedback that luka's scenario is not every scenario. i think that's valid in itself.
@@sisterslurpthattea9880 they took her experience and minimized it, it was traumatic and terrible for her and they just dismissed it. I wouldn't wish that experience of hers on anyone.
The arguements were just not consistent. "You can't jump into these decisions...because you're feeling a certain way." Isn't that what you're arguing for?
Trans have always said that children should have the bodily autonomy to use puberty blockers and always said that children shouldn’t have surgeries until 18. Surgery is where the line was drawn because it’s irreversible and puberty blocker is reversible. It’s very clear to me. What are you confused about?
I felt so bad for Luka, her story was just absolutely sad and i cant believe how they were just trying to belittle her for her experience and make her seem like she was anti-trans just because she doesnt want kids to have to go through the bad side like wtf
Wow the fact that Samantha the most misunderstanding person in this video is an ‘influencer’ is very concerning to me, the way she treated Luka was awful
@@Pawzleyy She's awful and she's always been awful. She's been pushing literally tens of thousands of people into transitioning using her youtube channel. People have had their lives ruined now, irreparably. The fact that you were watching her and thought she was great, says a lot about how easily misled you are as a person. You should definitely be more careful in your life. The moment I first saw one of her videos I knew she was bad
STOP INVALIDATING LUKA! She's been through so much and who are you to make her feel that she's on the wrong side when she genuinely wants to protect Children? Oh my gosh. Luka Im on your side! You courage for speaking the truth in front of these people is admirable. I wish you all the best.
@@alienlover7556 What they were doing is saying that they feel horrible about what Luka was going through, but that Luka's situation isn't what should be happening. They all believe that you should be going to many appointments before making that decision. They said that Luka's story was a great example of why this needs to be talked about more. They believe it should be open to minors as long as they go through a long period of therapy and psychoanalysis before this decision.
This is probably the best jubilee middle ground video I've watched. Little to no fighting, all people involved are so understanding and willing to hear other people's thoughts and experiences while being respectful. This is meant to be the point of these videos.❤
I hate the disrespect they're showing Luka. She is completely valid too. Both "sides" can be valid in their own way, based on their own experiences. This is so upsetting to watch.
Idk i want to feel that way, but they lost all validity to me once they treated her that badly. I really hope that they see this and learn how horrible they were to her in this video.
How they invalidated Luka knowing millions of people would see this is absolutely mindblowing. What a strong person she is for handling it all with grace
She was kinda invalidating trans people's well-being who transitioning in early age saved their lives (and the future ones that it's going to be) through arguing that transitioning should not be done under 18 because she had a bad experience, despite the fact that literally every single research indicates the regret rate for it is significantly low, so that's that.
@@Namanzw there are many studies on the regret rate for transitioning (hormone therapy mainly) and they all indicate a 1- 4 percent of regret for transitioning, of which even a smaller percentage detransitioned.
@@Blue-kz3yk you can’t invalidate anyone without their consent. That explains why the trans women got so aggressive and Luka didn’t. In spite of all the stuff Luka is dealing with she actually has a handle on knowing that outside validation isn’t the path while the validation of others is the trans women on this panels entire identity.
Samantha literally told luka she was wrong about every statement about her experience. I hope Luka finds a community. The trans group was very disrespectful to her.
Yeah, I’m trans, and one thing that has always disturbed me is how rudely people treat detransitioners. There are definitely really rude detransitioners - I’ve heard many - but I forgive them because they are clearly going through a lot. Mind you, Luka isn’t one of the rude ones. I personally think that trans people are just rude to detransitioners because simply speaking about their own experience, to them, is challenging their experience, it’s invalidating them. If someone JUST says their story, never taking a dig at yours, why should you take a dig at theirs?
I really wish we could get a panel of people discussing the science behind puberty blockers and HRT and how it impacts minors vs adults after going through puberty . Based on all my research I've only seen it as harmful for trans youth to not go through their puberty because of the negative outcomes if they choose "bottom surgery" especially in trans women . I am really glad that it seems that all the people agree that psychiatric care and therapy are important when it comes to transitioning because it's important for anyone who is going through anything hard to seek guidance and healing in order to be confident in the next steps no matter what .
-“kids should be able to make decisions about their own anatomy” - “I was misdiagnosed and offered surgery” -“well that was your parents fault they should have made a better decision for you “ 🫠these people don’t even see the hypocrisy in what they say 🤦🏽♀️
"Kids should be able to make decisions about their own anatomy" I agree with this! Kids work to pay the bills, taxes, to provide themselves and their family with food, clothes, water, healthcare, sometimes pay to send them to private school, a roof to live under, and electronic devices.....oh wait I'm thinking of the parents. If parents are legally responsible for their children's mistakes (since minors cannot be sued), they absolutely have a say in what goes on with their children.
@@slayer5922 their job is to literally protect the child from things like this. Children can be sold dreams without understanding the truth of the world. These people sell those dreams to the weak and then abandon them when reality sets in.
Exactly ! I’m at this point in the video and I’m astounded. The idiocy and complete lack of self awareness is insane. I don’t know if I can even continue with these people gaslighting Luka like that.
It's really the doctors fault. There needs to be a standard for diagnosing gender dysphoria. Seems like many detransitioners only learn what gender dysphoria really is after they transition and realise they were never actually trans.
It is very much her parents and her doctors' fault for not getting more than one opinion. That goes for any medical service. Should we ban braces just because some orthodontists recommend them to people with jaw deformities who'll suffer from them? Or should people go get second opinions before anything is done. Luca's parents literally let her get her tiddies snipped after ONE session with a therapist. That's on them.
They really did dismiss Luka here. They did it because they know her experience would be used to invalidate other trans experiences. But they absolutely invalidated her. They said her parents are at fault for her transition but would also criticize parents for not giving their children full autonomy over their bodies to get their surgeries. This is a grey area topic. I understand that detransisition rarely happens. But as a cis person. Transition also rarely happens. So a trans person and a detransitioning person are both rare to me. And as a parent. I need to be informed of both possible outcomes if I had a child questioning their gender identity and expression.
@@galenodel3283Trans people only 'bully' detransitioners when they try using it to argue against trans teens (like me) transitioning. She's obviously here to further her agenda against us.
@@ChloeprettyoccasionallyIt’s not “bullying”, it is bullying. If you can’t accept that there can be multiple opinions at once, then you shouldn’t live in a democracy. You should probably move to a tyrannical society like China where only one opinion can exist.
Trans side: "Parents should listen to their kids when they tell them that they're trans" Luka: telling them that she has body dysmorphia and she shouldn't have been transitioned as a child Trans side: "It's your parent's fault" Please make it make sense, these people are only running their mouths, they don't know what they are talking about.
Well not taking it out of context. The fault is on parents due to not following up with the therapy to dive deeper into the topic was their fault. Their child was already in therapy for something else and then unloaded this feeling onto them and from there they were directed to go to another type of therapist for the transitional aspect. In between the original therapist and the transition therapist is where the parents should have sought help on the topic rather than just go by a feeling their child brought up in a session in which the therapist had no background. The point is transition does work for most young people who know. Should they be able to start a process sure and therapy and research is part of that process.
I find it quite ironic. That the side that is pushing for children to have bodily autonomy. In regards to their ability to transition. Are also the one saying, your parents should have pushed back against those doctors. It's your parents responsibility. They should have stopped the doctor. You're not really diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The second that their logic is applied to a real world situation. It becomes a very strong line of it's time to blame the victim. While also tapping you sensitively on the lap. And saying they're there. You actually don't know yourself. The rest of us do. But because it went wrong for you, you do not know yourself.
Luka talks about being fully convinced and convincing everyone else, then goes on to blame everyone else for her choices. Then starts advocating against ppl being heard. She made decisions she regrets and is trying to curb ppl's rights to make their own decisions. She's a victim of her decisions and wants to use that to limit other ppl's rights.
@@SarahTurner-ne8nb SHE. WAS. A. CHILD. The whole point of not allowing children to make life changing decisions is because they might be mistaken. She is absolutely not responsible for what happened.
Detransitioners (especially ones that go on hormones) are extremely rare - like 1-2% They should be respected and their stories should be shared but too many people think it’s like 50/50
@@chloefoster2429 it's funny isn't it? People like you have been saying the percentage is 1%. Then you said it's definitely less than 1%. Now apparently it's going up again "1-2%". Oh really??? Finally realising something is up, are we? You awful person
yeah honestly watching them go after her like that sickened me. Completely invalidated her and refuse to even acknowledge how minors shouldn't be making those decisions.
It is so disgusting how they're invalidating Luka's lived experiences. You can't go from "nobody knows better than I do about who I am" to "It was your parents job to get second opinion and not let you go through with something that wasn't you" like how do they (looking at Samantha) not see the hypocrisy???
You missed the entire point. Looking for multiple opinions on life changing decisions is kinda common sense. Puberty blockers are for teens. So when they hit 16 they get to make the decision with a therapist if they are ready to start hrt. Jumping into it with only one opinion is really the parents fault. There is studies proving 98% of teens start hrt after puberty blockers and transition into adulthood happily. Luka is blanketing the entire medical field because of one therapist and their parents not doing research.
I support gender affirming care but agree that there is a need for more safety checks in place for someone like Luka. The thing is that there already are so many safety checks in place regarding requirements for therapy, mental health assessments, sitting on a waiting list for multiple years…it makes me wonder how someone like Luka passed all those checks without a single medical professional questioning if Luka was ready for transitioning.
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❤❤❤❤ great edit.
Thanks for giving detransitioners a platform.
Manipulative editing, obvious
These videos are actively harmful. Read your comments and see what your editing supports. Clearly, this video has supported the views of transphobes. As trans healthcare is being stripped away, children are being kidnapped for being trans, and hate crimes continue to skyrocket, I am honestly shocked that you would 1) make this video and 2) edit it like you did. This is dangerous and will only harm trans people. There’s a space to hear from detransitioners, but this wasn’t the space as it wasn’t an honest representation of people who detransition. The vast majority of detransitioners are trans - they just couldn’t continue with medical transition due to financial/social factors.
Because I’m tired of responding to everyone asking the same question of “how do you know?” -> Source: Factors Leading to ‘Detransition’ Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis”
@@spookygreg How can you make such a comment? "Vast majority"?? How do you know?
I wish more people understood that being against children undergoing permanent gender transition does NOT make you anti-trans.
Thank you!!! Adults should be able to make decisions that will change their lives, not children
Yes 🎉🎉
Most children who transition are much more likely to stay trans then people who transition as adults.
@@Mary-ec6zh puberty is also perminant so ur putting trans kids thru what they will spend the rest of their life trying to change.don’t call life saving medical care disgustingly
@@mookchie most of the currently transitioned ones stated they would support children going through these surgeries
I love how the transitioned ppl were like “that’s your parents fault for letting you transition that young” ISNT THAT WHAT YOURE FIGHTING FOR?!?
Social transitioning at a young age is different from getting surgery
well, luka wasn't trans to begin with. both she and her parents f'ed up. real trans people shouldn't have to suffer because people like her made a mistake and regret it
@@Je-jt5bv trans healthcare is affirmation ONLY. how can the parents mess up if the only option is AFFIRM.
@@Je-jt5bv THAT’S THE POINT!!!! 🤦🏽♀️ This is exactly what’s going to happen if we let young children who don’t even know what they want for dinner to get on puberty blockers. SMH.
Exactly. They didn't realize how they were contradicting themselves.
Telling luka “ it’s your parent’s responsibility or fault “ is the whole point. Luka was a child. The gaslighting is unbelievable . Luka is an example of how the child needs to grow up first before medically transitioning.
I think we’re not seeing that it was the adults in Luka’s life who were pushing her towards that decision rather than Luka herself asking for surgery. The adults made the choice for her. What pro-trans people are saying is that children should be leading the way not the adults. So it’s the parents fault to listen to everybody except Luka. It goes both ways, we should listen to trans AND cis youth.
i do agree with letting the children grow up to be adults first and then they can decide what they want to do next about it.
Well even lot of adults that transition detransition. If you let or accept your child transitioning or being other gender then it encourages then at eighteen they will just do it.
@@TheCiddie let's just be clear here. Children shouldn't lead the way in anything. A child's job is to learn, to play and to listen. Not to lead. Letting your kid lead you will not end well for anyone.
@@TheCiddie the doctor literally emotionally manipulated her parents with false talking points about her ending her life had she not gotten surgery.
Luka carried herself so gracefully. The way she would continue her conversations without letting her feelings take over even though they were attacking her
We hear and heard you Luka. Keep pushing and spreading your storyline people need to hear it ❤
thats my fren
Her story is important and valid, but it is about a Medical mispractice, the healthcare providers she was seeing we're simply 💩, and have definitely failed her. But presenting it as a typical experience that trans kids go through is just simply not the case, as others on this very panel have told her, if you look up other trans people's stories, you'll find that typical GAC is infinitely more rigorous and lengthy, and it is demanded by the patient himself, very few trans people feel like they were ever "pushed" into something, in fact, it's quite the opposite, usually they're discouraged from transitioning both by their parents AND the medical staff.
@@bugkohl3292amazing friend there
I didn't really like the way the trans side would say "trans kids are valid" but would completely invalidate Luka's detransistion experience by saying she was misdiagnosed.
Luka is not a real trans person, it was a defensive reaction to wipe out traumatic exprience and have a fresh start.
Because she kinda said she never was trans she was abused as a teen…
@@p4nd4b01 and thats a perfect example of why children shouldnt be able to transition at a young age, if children in abusive situations are given this opportunity to transition it leaves them vulnerable to be in even more mental (and possibly physical pain also, like luka) in their adulthood.
The two replies here are like, completely braindead. I completely agree with you, they try to look for the stupidest / out of focus thing to blame it on the detransitioner.
Point blank is: Parents were told "Trans or kid dies", so they responsibly listened to the doctor, and the doctor failed as a profesional. It's not about: "Oh but you didn't have GD / That was your parent's fault". It's about NOT transitioning kids/teens because kids/teens DON'T KNOW what they want in life yet. It seems like explaining basic child caring.
@@tong8619 I think it’s actually quite upsetting and messy. Its sad how dismissive a lot of the trans community/supporters can be to anything contridicting their points, because it makes people feel like you’re being transphobic or aren’t with the trans community at all when that isn’t actually always the case. I support the trans community, to an extent, because yes there are a few things like this that I disagree with and that should be okay. And I’ve seen a lot of doctors and surgeons go with the transitioning because they’re scared of being judged or “cancelled” ect not because it should be recommended
I would love to see this with the doctors who perform these surgeries vs. The ones that won't.
Or the researchers of these studies.
This comment needs to be upvoted.
oy vey
@@Mizushimeee no one would do that
This would actually be educational
Telling Luka "your parents are responsable for that" after saying kids know themselves better and should make the desision by themselves sounds like gaslighting to me.
It makes me have no sympathy for anything the others said as soon as they started dogging her like that, she's so sweet too, it makes me really upset lmao.
It is 100%, they can't follow their own logic when faced with the consequences. They can't tell Luka to her face that it was her fault for making the wrong decision because it wasn't her fault, because they know she was just a child. Yes her parents did mess up, but in the current environment and the emotional blackmail, the fault lies more with the "professionals."
@@erivida64 not even the professionals, more the activists am politicians. Here in Spain they make it ilegal for medics and physiologist to do anything but affirm people transition.
They are just arguing against everything the opposite side says without the concern of contradictions or being consistent in their beliefs.
"Believe the medical experts"- wait, not the ones that are making us look bad.
So it is “insulting” and “abusive” to children for their parents to decide what is best for them, because no one knows that child better than the child.
But when the result of that is unfavorable then it’s the parent’s fault because it was their responsibility to have made a better decision for their child?
Some people are never wrong, even when they refute themselves.
it's insulting and abusive for DOCTORS to perform MEDICAL MALPRACTICE. was that not clear from the video? Or were you watching something else while you were typing this?
I really hope Jubilee comes back to this and edits this video because it has incorrect information about things like puberty blockers being reversible. It's been known for a long time they aren't.
No one knows what best for one , especially parents
they all said “you know who you are best” until luka was talking about her mental health and samantha goes “i think you were misdiagnosed” like the hypocrisy is absurd.
Frrrrrr
And that dismissive tone, "Get a second opinion 'honey'"🤨
@@brt5273yeah that's the problem others people's feelings aren't understandable until line with them
Luka's case clearly differs due to the amount of trauma she suffered, especially with the fact it was bodily. It's honestly so heart-breaking. I think misdiagnosis is maybe not quite correct as she probably felt gender dysphoria due to the danger she felt from being a girl, not from being trans, and the medical process she underwent was so unbelievably wrong and harmful. Had she undergone proper therapy, like you're supposed to while transitioning, somebody would've recognised her trauma and dealt with that before treating her as a trans patient. That being said, people do know themselves better than anyone else but therapy is a necessary step in the transitioning process to know that people aren't conflating a different internal struggle. Luka's case is, honestly, abhorrent and she never should have had to go through that. It was completely the wrong treatment to a mental issue she was going through.
I like how they'll always blame it on an incorrect diagnosis. That dudes youtube is dangerous. Hypocrite especially with how Luka was treated.
Luka: I think parents should be able to stop their kids from transitioning without feeling guilty
Samantha: That would take away from human autonomy and kids should be able to make the decision themselves
Luka: Ya well look how that worked out for me
Samantha: Ok well that's your parents fault they should have stopped you
I'm pissed no one brought THIS up during the conversation
Lol I was thinking the same thing.
This👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This should have been discussed!
Exactly.
The gaslighting done to Luka is horrible. She's so brave. I hope she keeps telling her story.
@@callistoamare you a doctor or?
@@JayseeLyn why would she need to be one?
@@JayseeLynwhat?
I don't think it's gaslighting, i think Luka refuses to take accountability for what happened to her. She is wholly putting the blame of transitioning on the trans community and being misinformed about what dysphoria is. She was a traumatized girl with body dysmorphia. I beleive she was wrongly diagnoses yes, but I think that any resistance that the medical professionals or parents or friends made wouldn't have made a difference. I think her mind was made up at the time and it was a mistake sadly. She deserves to share that story, but it seems more like she doesn't beleive trans people exist, only hurt traumatized people who need therapy and that's just not true. There are people genuinely born in the wrong body, and you don't have to take down one person or group to support another.
I know yet they are such hypocrites! She’s talking about how she went to the clinic one time, and already had an appointment for a surgery or whatever “gender affirming care”. Then they start saying how that’s just one bad doctor. You think there is only one!! The fact that these people can say trust the kids and how they feel, or how do adults know what they want more than a kid because none of us know what we want. That is just horrifying! Yet they see the downfall of that in Luka, and just say maybe you were misdiagnosed. It’s just disgusting and horrible to see such ignorance.
I'm a detransitioned cis woman too and I really saw myself in Luka. I started transitioning at 19 instead, but she and I had the same reasons for why we believed we were trans and had the same operations. I hope she is doing well and I just really related to her completely, with the mental health portion too. I'm glad I could see someone similar to myself on here. Thank you.
I’m kinda shocked that Jubilee actually showcased de-trans people, but I’m glad they did. They aren’t brought up enough.
detrans people have more of a platform and are given more of a chance in the literal news than actual trans people. they’re doing just fine.
They are literally brought up constantly as a way to discriminate against Trans people.
Eh what do you think would be the point at which they're brought up enough? Theres no 'enough' just it is what it is. Should's and merit are illusions we put to reassure ourselves but they don't exist.
They aren't brought up on PURPOSE. It would hurt the narrative, and tons of surgeons would lose money.
They probably aren't very easy to find, seeing that detransition rates are so low
Ok so I'm a Trans person and I think anyone with proper critical thinking skills (regardless of whether they're trans or not) should be able to see how wrong and unhealthy it is for a CHILD to transition.
Ya agreed but the American system is money hungry they will stop at nothing to destroy the next Gen
Thank you
And I think the world is finally catching up unfortunately so many children in this generation have been sterilized bc of this atrocity
See I appreciate that. It's turned me completely off of accepting anything trans. You give them an inch, they take a mile and try to shove it in your everyday life. I was once a bernie supporter. Use to be.. I appreciate you being honest and real.
@@EddiXP Ignorance is bliss my friend.
Respect to Luka for being so calm and honest, vulnerable, open, informative and sticking to her guns.
absolutely
yes. truthfully told what Luka said at 1:43 should the end of it. it was very eloquently presented and tbh open and shut case. many of these kids question their gender, that's normal. but there are very real, permanent results from children transitioning before puberty, and as Luka said, many of these kids grow up to be a gay/gnc adult. Just let them/yourself grow up and figure what you want.
honestly the trans and detrans movement are part of the same fight. somone else commented "being against children undergoing permanent gender transition does NOT make you anti-trans." and that's important to understand. we ARE for the ability for people to transition and figure out their presentation and self image the way they want, but regulations do need to be in place for kids who are questioning their gender, for their mental AND physical well being.
It's one thing to have the more honest and reasonable opinion but she didn't really seem interested in defending herself whenever the others gaslighted her. Sticking to your guns doesn't mean much if you are not a marksman.
Luka ruined this whole debate
@@flightranchu3486 You mean won.
“Children know themselves” but also “your parents are responsible”. No consistency, crazy
children know themself but their parents are responsible for making sure they dont make life time long decisions. Trans youth should be going on puberty blockers and social transition max not go through surgeries or go on T/E
@@NightlyCirrus not even that. all that stuff will mess with them even more. puberty is a tough time for all kids, they are lost and finding themself at the same time. disturbing that process is a big NO-NO imho. if they feel like they are the opposite gender, they can just cross-dress and be what they wanna be. are there even any long term studies on the effects of hormones and puberty blockers on kids ?? ridiculous.
@@EpicBunty so yeah dont speak up on topics wtih such certainty if you havent even done MINIMUM amount of research to know that YES there has been COUNTLESS studies on effects of puberty blockers on kids (as if the name on its own wasnt suggesting that its made for kids (ADULTS DONT GO THROUGH PUBERTY)) Puberty blockers simply put a pause button on your puberty, once youre off the pills your puberty resumes as normal. And theres been countless studies that have shown that puberty blockers have no effect on future fertility issues, it can cause bone issues though but thats why puberty blockers arent assigned in a "oh hey i want puberty blockers" "oh okay! here you go" no. You have a doctor that you go to to make sure your body can take puberty blockers and then have regular visits while youre on the pill to make sure theres nothing wrong going on. Dont speak up on issues you havent even looked into especially if they can have a tragic outcome
@@EpicBunty i dont know why its deleting all of my replies?? but so yeah dont speak up on topics wtih such certainty if you havent even done MINIMUM amount of research to know that YES there has been COUNTLESS studies on effects of puberty blockers on kids (as if the name on its own wasnt suggesting that its made for kids (ADULTS DONT GO THROUGH PUBERTY)) Puberty blockers simply put a pause button on your puberty, once youre off the pills your puberty resumes as normal. And theres been countless studies that have shown that puberty blockers have no effect on future fertility issues, it can cause bone issues though but thats why puberty blockers arent assigned in a "oh hey i want puberty blockers" "oh okay! here you go" no. You have a doctor that you go to to make sure your body can take puberty blockers and then have regular visits while youre on the pill to make sure theres nothing wrong going on. Dont speak up on issues you havent even looked into especially if they can have a tragic outcome
The jump from telling Luka "children know themselves" to blaming Luka's parents (and blaming her to an extent) for her unneeded transition is so wild
The hypocrisy in this community is absolutely wild.
Exactly with i though
children knowing themselves does not mean they need surgery it means they need gender affirming care and blockers that's why its Lukas' parents fault cause they let their child get a life changing surgery instead of the proper therapy that she needed
I was just thinking that how can you say children know what they want to your parents are to blame..well when they kids decide to transition..will it be the same blame..” they” are so delusional..let kids be kids and when the children become of age to know the difference let them go through with the transition….ppl want to push this so bad it’s disgusting
@@ericamagnes2186 children in fact, do not know themselves. Adults barely know themselves. Some trans people need surgery, some do not. And blaming her parents for their decision in a scenario that the vast majority of people have 0 understanding and experience in is so out of touch with reality.
Blaming an individual's decision in a broken medical system is one of the peak liberal identity ideas that has helped no one but the most privileged members of the queer community.
The fact that transphobes will see this as fodder for their views is irrelevant. The reason why we're here is because of the insipid talking points of mainstream LGBT+ culture. Not Luka's parents being ignorants who should've read gender theory.
The people agreeing with letting children transition literally contradicted themselves. “Children should have autonomy” to Luka: “It’s your parents fault for making the wrong decision.” Wtf??
IM SAYING
They gaslight her throughout the video.
EXACTLY THE GASLIGHTING!!!!
They literally don’t even realize it either. They’re ruining their own case lol.
I was literally going to say this 😅
‘It’s inhumane to deny children their bodily autonomy’
Same group: ‘Your parents were responsible for the decisions that were made on your behalf’
That bit really confused me lol
i think they said that bc Luka shared that the therapist made them believe she was trans without actually digging deeper.
well lukas situation is different she was talking about being abused.
i'm pretty sure the first statement was in reference to allowing children to get puberty blockers in order to have "bodily autonomy" over their puberty. hormone blockers, being reversible, are not as serious as a permanent gender reassignment surgery, speaking generally. in Luka's case, the people involved in her transition should have been better educated and Luka deserved better, but questioning children should be able to explore things and speak with therapists and have hormone blockers and other non-permanent changes with the approval of their guardians if it comes down to it.
so both can be true.
No seriously like that was a total oxymoron
Lukas point about the bodily autonomy thing was actually extremely valid and they jumped down her throat for it. You can’t just preach autonomy when it fits your agenda.
Yeah, that was really hypocritical of them.
But in that very same discussion, three of them told Luka they had a much lengthier process to transition, and she didn't listen or care. Just continued saying that because it happened to her, it's the norm. I feel bad for her, I really do. But if only 1 out of 8 of the individuals in this video had a snap if the finger diagnosis and surgery, it does not sound like the norm.
@@darkfire8008THats still so many people
@@darkfire8008 whether or not they went through lengthier processes, a child's mind is not developed enough to be absolutely 100% certain they won't regret this decision in the future. the time taken for this "lengthier process" is just not enough, its not enough YEARS.
@@aaravbalaji3075The exception is not the rule just because it happens a few times doesn't mean that everyone has to suffer
Everyone attacking LUKA are the prime example what is wrong with the community. Someone in that community is telling you the horrors they have experienced but the SAME people in the community are telling you she is wrong and her feelings are not valid...The hypocrisy so sad
It was so strange how they were trying to blame every individual involved in the situation rather than the system. Blaming the parents and medical professionals while at the same time saying that kids should have there own choice
@@jackoberto01 they did blame the system with Luka. They said they were misdiagnosed. Which they were.
@@Fiorwestcoast My interpretation was that they blamed the individual that misdiagnosed her rather than how the process works
@@jackoberto01 they blamed the parents and the therapist. The process isn't the issue. Majority of trans people are very very happy. This individual was misdiagnosed by a therapist and their parents should have gotten multiple opinions.
They didn't attack. They simply said the therapist and her parents were in the wrong. Not the Healthcare system.
Whenever you're making a life altering decision you always seek multiple opinions.
They literally tell Luka, "That's not happening!" Luka responds, "It happened to me." and they respond by saying "Well you need to get a second opinion, hunny." Like LMFAO what? You said it wasn't happening. That's a lot different than "Sure, it's happening, but when it happens you need to know to go and get a second opinion to keep it from happening." That's straight up deranged.
Completely contradicted themselves in the very next breath.
@@lillianweaver-beck408 a few. So many trans kids are detransitioning
@@lillianweaver-beck408 source plz. And I also want to know when how many years has people been trans. Coz this wide wave of trans is only less then 5 years (I says wide wave not trans ppl in general)
@@rosettekalombo3072 source plz
@@lillianweaver-beck408 what about all the adults who transition and then regret it. I mean if adults are having trouble... so kids are even better at knowing if they're trans? Make it make sense. It's clear many are making a mistake. We just forget about those people? Or we address this "affirmation only" nonsense now and prevent needles injury or worse. Thats all I'm saying.
luka broke my heart the entire video, the way they simply told her she was misdiagnosed like they know everything about her is insane.
But It would be a misdiagnosis if she’s not actually trans, wouldn’t it? Unless she’s talking about gender dysphoria /now/ as a result of detransitioning after having a double mastectomy, and in that case, the only treatment option would still be exactly what the transitioners claimed; gender affirming care.
She just didn’t clarify whether or not her diagnosis was obtained before or after she detransitioned, so I couldn’t expect them to know otherwise.
@MadsHonk how can it be a misdiagnosis when all the people of the medical community have to go off is the patients own feelings there is no tests to ensure someone is experiencing gender dysphoria this is exactly the reason why I feel any type of medical intervention for kids is very wrong, even puberty blockers, it's known now that puberty blockers arnt reversible like everyone used to claim
A bunch of dudes ganging up on this poor woman. That's the Patriarchy for you.
@@SleeperInTravel I’ve seen you comment this like three other times. You don’t feel bad for her, you’re just looking for validation of your own transphobia.
@@anya8575is he wrong tho? 😂
As a former trans person who thankfully never went through with transition, there is pressure to be trans. The trans community never acknowledges detransitioners because they don’t want to acknowledge what influence they have had on kids. Kids should not transition. It’s a decision only an adult can make. And if you detransition these people will pretend you don’t exist and you will be so isolated. I love my detransitioned peers. I see you.
PREACH
Similar phenomena occur in various communities, such as those with autism, ADHD, and others. People often self diagnose, which can lead them to learn about the condition and begin to identify with it. A prime example of this is the TikTok Tourette’s trend, where young people began exhibiting symptoms of Tourette's without actually having the disorder. These behaviors were essentially "phantom tics," self imposed yet involuntary as a way to fit in. People are motivated by a desire for acceptance and fear of being ostracized, which leads them to mimic what they see in their environment. This pattern also applies to behaviors like being drunk or high.
Luka is the only person with the experience of being a minor during this surgery and they gaslit her the whole time. No one else can speak on the surgery as a minor other than her because they haven’t had that experience.
yes kinda, but she isn't trans so she can't speak for trans minors. But I did really agree with her talking points about having safe barriers for children. very complex topic
Yeah, notice the rest of them transitioned after 18+
@@blueberrymuffin7207 Denying detransitioners their experience is genuinely disgusting, there is also no clear long-scope evidence yet to support that gender dysphoria doesn't just end up fully going away with time if teens do not use gender affirming care. Of all the evidence that currently exists, virtually all people that choose to not use gender-affirming care in their teens will stop feeling gender dysphoria. Granted, 80% of these people end up identifying is gay, plenty of research and studies on the topic.
@@sarimkh Can you cite a source for those statistics?
@@aliemaza5241 Korte 2008, Steensma 2013, Drummond 2008. Just a few of the studies that show this. And mind you, there are no reliable studies to support the opposite, all of them have been heavily criticized in the scientific community.
Hearing luca describe her detransition and how her body is today broke my heart. You can tell that she deeply regrets this and is in a lot of pain mentally, physically, and emotionally. I hope one day she will find peace in herself and forgiveness.
I hope one day she stops using her unheard of experience to argue against transition, that's ridiculous.
Listen, what happened to Luka was horrible. It really is; it's a situation caused by years of abuse and medical negligence. However, that does not mean that one story negates the research/evidence that gender-affirming care works WHEN USED CORRECTLY. It would be like saying marriage shouldn't be allowed because you experienced domestic abuse.
thats how all trans people feel without transition lol
kids arent supposed to get SURGERIES..... this is something im sure the trans community doesnt support. @@misanthrophex
@@misanthrophex Its not a crime against humanity. All people on earth make mistakes that they have to life with. The overall regret rate for elective surgeries is way higher than the regret rate for medical transition. If you dont believe me feel free to look it up: the regret rate for transition is around 1-3%.
Kinda disappointed with the trans folks, Luka was very upfront about her gender disphoria and the mistakes that she was lead into as a kid, and they kept dismissing it. She says she still has gender disphoria to this day and they say, “I think you were misdiagnosed”- she opens up about the effects hormones and surgery had on her body, and they say “That was your parents”.
I'm not. It revealed what everyone already knows. This whole thing is bullcrap, and the medical industry is in on it for the $$. These people need medication and therapy, not surgical mutilation.
Yuuuup completely agree. How are you going to invalidate someone who has an actual experience with the topic?
I agree. I kinda felt they dismissed that these cases can happen. There are more greedy doctors out there, and many don't give af. It's a very valid conversation. Plus it's new to most parents. How tf are parents supposed to know
Exactly!! And then they contradict themselves by saying "no one knows me better than me" but blame the parents for letting luka make the choice.
I agree. It was sickening the way they attacked.
Luka is the realest person here, she knows exactly what she was saying and i wholeheartedly agree.
Everything Luka said was so heartbreaking. Especially at the end of the episode. I hope Luka reads these comments and sees just how many people are out here that would be honored to have her as part of their community.
I couldn't have said it better.. Like I'm in tears after hearing what she said at the end I wish I could comfort her so badly
@Mellow Dramatic the pain in her voice was so raw. I wish I could hug her.
Luka is not part of the community she is a cis woman
@@kane4938ur disgusting
@@kane4938 no one said she’s trans
The transitioned folks literally contradicted themselves by going from “a child should make their own choices with their own body and should be able to transition” and it quickly turned into “it’s your doctors fault for allowing you, it’s your parents fault for allowing you” like WHAT???
And in the same breath as, 'I know and have always known myself better than anyone' - which suggests that doctors and parents ought to allow this.
They can't admit it might be wrong because they already destroyed their own body.
I think more so they mean that children should be able to make their own decisions with proper education and proper medical examinations from professionals (with a second opinion). Atleast thats wha I took away from their statements.
A million times this 😢
The epitome of having an argument based solely on feelings and subjectivity
Luka didn’t deserve to be gaslighted about her experience. There are MANY people who have gone through a similar experience, and are be hushed like Luka. Continue speaking Luka, your voice is heard!!
She wasn't gaslit. She was misdiagnosed. That's a fact. She isn't trans, so she didn't have dysphoria when she was diagnosed with it.
@@owen3721 No dude. No. Gender dysphoria is a symptom that can indicate many different things, one of which is being transgender. But gender dysphoria is a symptom of other conditions too. DID is the first one I think of. At that point in her life, Luka did, in fact, have gender dysphoria. Her point was that she should not have had the final say on her diagnosis being both a child and a non-professional in that particular field. Meanwhile everyone else in the circle was saying that children know the cause of their symptoms better than anyone else and should get the final say. And that is a perfectly valid disagreement. If she was misdiagnosed, it was because of how that exact sentiment failed her in her youth. It IS gaslighting to say that putting "children's autonomy" above all else does not make Luka's experience possible.
They were so disrespectful to Luka and made totally nonsensical retorts. How are parents supposed to intervene to stop transition if no one knows the child better than themselves? How are medical professionals supposed to diagnose and stop kids from transition and misdiagnosis if no one knows but the child?
I empathise with luka the most. I feel like she really understands how harmful the gray area surrounding this issue really is.
I agree
I totally empathize with her story, but please keep in mind hers is really an edge case. Trans people are already only 1% of the population, and detrans people are less than 1% of those 1%. While it is still important to listen and have empathy for her, we shouldn’t base our entire understanding of trans ppl on her experience, not all trans ppl only have dysphoria because of trauma, and her case is very unique.
@Davie023 just another person trying to downplay her story. Nobody said her experience was the only one, but that these grey can be dangerous.
luka seems to have a horrible understanding of gender identity and it seems they tie their identity to their trauma. dont do that.
@@jacobwhite208 haha and your understanding of gender identity is better? Tell me
Luka is so incredibly intelligent and eloquent. Fantastically composed in this tense situation despite all this gaslighting and victim blaming.
It really shocked me how much they attacked her in the first (or second i can’t remember) question. I appreciate her composure. They were all retaliating against her but i can tell she is the most intelligent person out of this group to speak on the subject as she has had it happen to her.
Whos a victim?
exactly
They blamed the doctors and the parents for both making wrong decisions that no doubt contributed to what happened to Luka. No one is blaming Luke for what happened.
Luke was woman at the beginning? I mean the body
“That’s on your parents” “that’s on the doctors” i can guarantee you she’s not the only minor that has happened to..
Edit- yall fiesty in the replies.. I’m saying the same thing Luka is saying.. unfortunately as a child before puberty your body isn’t developed enough.. As Luka explained the body will shut down as it’s not medically advanced enough
Exceptions are not the rule. We don’t make laws for the exception.
@@kjh4496now do abortion and how raped women need it.
my opinion on this is she was medically abused and there is no but or if after that, not her or her parents fault. she is valid and so are her experiences, she is allowed to live these and i think she deserved a real psychoanalysis.
@@kjh4496 then why are people trying to put transwomen on womens sports teams
@@seeyouallintherapy Rules of sport are not Laws
The thing is: as we grow up, we go through the process of figuring out what gender even is. Young children don't have a deep understanding of sex and gender differences, and learning that takes time. When we go through puberty, we feel a level of dissociation from our own bodies due to perceived development. From a psychological standpoint, it is REALLY difficult to tell if a young person is really trans or if they're going through a specific stage of questioning their identity. When questioning who we are, it's important to be able to change our minds whenever we want, and with something like medical transitions, any possibility of going back is negated due to the irreversible nature of such a process.
Them: "Nobody knows you better then yourself, thats why kids should be allowed to transition"
Luka: "I was medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria"
Them: "You were clearly misdiagnosed"
Them: "Kids should be allowed to do what they want to feel gendered affirmed and parents should not have control over it"
Luka: "I regret my transition and i went through the proper steps"
Them: " Well thats your parents fault they should have stopped you"
Luka: "The system is bad, parents are scared into transitioning their kid."
Them: "No, the system is fine, all your doctors were all just wrong. You're experience is not typical in the research papers I Googled so they are not valid"
Not only are they literally gaslighting luka THEY WERE LITERALLY CONTRADICTING THEMSELVES AT 9:13 "don't go to doctors to transition just because you're feeling a certain way" ISNT THAT WHAT UR FIGHTING FOR? TO HAVE CONTROL OF YOUR OWN BODY AND TO ALLOW MINORS TO HAVE SURGERY????!?!?!??!?
THAT PISSED ME OFF SO MUCH it was so hard to hear how they were responding to Luka since I have a close friend who's been through something similar
Mental gymnastics
That part really triggered me, because they weren't listening!
I encourage you and anyone reading this to read up on abusive doctors and gender affirmative care. What Luka described was abuse.
Luka deserves a ton of credit.
She is arguing against emotions with facts and logic, and is still getting gaslight and told that her facts and experiences are incorrect.
As a psychologist, I couldn’t even believe that the other cast members directly told her that she didn’t really have gender dysphoria, and that the psychologists who gave her that diagnosis were wrong. The denial of experiences and facts is really baffling.
If her psychologist told her that she should transition after one session, then for sure her therapist was wrong, she probably could sue them for malpractice
@@Goingby20s therapists must affirm or loose their license. Telling her she should transition is literally what he is forced to do.
@@brettpid6416 literally most states today still allow conversion therapy, no therapist is obliged to tell a pacient they're transgender, there is no such rule or law, and that's not even what gender affirming therapy is
@@brettpid6416
Affirmation isn't how you're interpreting it here.
When someone comes to a therapist with an issue concerning their gender identity, therapist affirms it and then comes extensive evaluation of the reasons why a person thinks so.
During that evaluation therapist must also check for other conditions. All of it takes several sessions.
That's how it usually works. If someone diagnosed a person, minor or adult after a single session - I don't think they're qualified to provide these services.
not pure emotion they all had their takes--hey also brought up religion thought that was worth mentioning which is rather emotionally driven
It’s very sad to see the trans side disqualify and belittle the experience of the detransition side.
Though, not surprising-- they're narcissists
Can’t expect more from those types of people
they’re not belittling them, in fact during their conversation they agreed on a lot more things than were shown
Jubilee likes to make it look like they are disagreeing a lot more than they actually are for views
Because they have to justify that a detransitioner is an anomly and a special case and not common at all. If they actually are honest there reality falls apart and they have to deal
With 🎉he consequences
They didn't do that
Never
Not once
It’s interesting how people can support minors getting transition surgery and/or puberty blockers, yet they cannot consent to sex with an adult, buy alcohol/tobacco, or even consent to get a tattoo or piercing.
It makes zero sense
The sex w an adult sneak is wild
@@wookiespit It's literally the least harmful of the 3. They do it with each other already.
@@DudeNoEdge it is most certainly not the least harmful. You should be on a list :)
@@wookiespit The age of consent here in Germany is 14. Cope.
I’d love to see a discussion like this between agreeing and disagreeing psychologists.
This, please!!!!
They would be doxxed and sued into oblivion by trans activists. Myself and most healthcare providers I know are absolutely against medically transitioning children, but the topic has become a political narrative devoid of all nuance and reason now. We have to just go along with "affirmative therapy" and watch children get butchered.
I think it's gonna be hard to find the disagreeing side, since it carries the risk of being cancelled or labelled transphobic, which can negatively impact their livelihood
@@anthonymc8361 true but I think it’s not even that they have to agree or disagree personally. I think it could be more focused on the science and theological ideas that a lot of people argue and whether they agree with that or not. Ie gender/ sex, mental disorders, statistics, things like that
no psychologist on earth who isn’t mentally deranged supports it
When a person starts with "I'm sorry for you, but..." They're not actually sorry and just want to push their point.
No
i mean this is a debate lol did you expect the opposite side to just be quiet after that just because it’s sad
Facts.
“I’m sorry for you but..” is actually very invalidating. So much so that I believe it’s intentional.
I'm sorry to hear you believe that, but you're wrong.
My heart goes out to Luka. The way she was treated was so disrespectful and her story made me tear up
You are not the first commenter who says that, but I really don't see it. I really feel like they listened to her. They just acknowledged that what happened to her is not standard procedure but rather medical malpractice.
the way they reacted is about to send this discussion backward; bigots would use this as 'trANS PeopLE IndoctrinAtIng KIds--" propaanda, its so disappointing
@@godisapigeon8530 she said she was diagnosed with gender dysphoria and they told her she needed a second opinion and completely disregarded it, so unfortunately, while what they were saying might be true, they came at it in a disrespectful way :/
I regret my decision so let's make it illegal even though minors have been getting plastic surgery since it's been done.
Luka~
@@dr1flush and u want us to respect u guys 😅😅😅 this is why I never felt bad taking bad to Trans people
I don't think some people realize that sic people can have gender dysmorphia. Having gender dysmorphia doesn't always mean someone's trans.
There's no such thing as "gender dysmorphia." It's gender DYSPHORIA. If someone has gender DYSPHORIA, they ARE trans. But you can be trans and NOT have gender dysphoria.
WAIT WAIT WAIT….the trans people say young people should be allowed to do whatever they want with their bodily autonomy but when the detransitioner who had the double mastectomy at 16, asked what she was supposed to do when her health team said she was trans when she was not, they ALL blamed her parents and said that they should’ve stepped in. But isn’t that EXACTLY what you guys are fighting? Parents rights to step in and make bodily decisions on their kids behalf to protect them? Crazy
Glad you caught that too
The reason why is because they didn’t get a second opinion from medical professionals and that was partially their fault, w/ the bodily autonomy statement there is an idea already placed that there has been multiple opinions from medical professionals because it tends to take that and yes this was a very tragic event that happened to luka but this shouldn’t be at looked or placed as the fault of trans people, this is partially the fault of Luca’s parents but mostly the medical professional who didn’t guide them to other people as well
Yes of course and the fact that people contradict themselves at such a great level is just wow. Everything you said and more!
@@Sebayee
In a number of jurisdictions, the defacto treatment for gender dysphoria is acceptance and beginning transition. Practitioners are afraid to take a wait and see approach due to being accused of transphobia.
It's the hypocrisy in that presentation for me. Some parents are abused for even taking a stand for their children. It's so sad .
“Your parents were responsible” and “kids know who they are and need more bodily autonomy” spoken in the same breath… ironic 9:14
i don't understand how this is ironic?? it makes complete sense if you think about it. her parents and therapists didn't give her the time and freedom to fully evaluate everything about herself before shoving "quick fixes" at her. if her parents backed off and gave her more therapeutic options she would have had the opportunity to understand herself better and avoid the horrible stuff she went through. please take some time to think about and evaluate what you say before jumping to conclusions based on preconceived notions you have.
I’m so glad you said this. I was like…. Why is this not the top comment. Can I get a “hypocrite”
@@shelbymarsh4945 The trans group specifically stated that minors should not be making PERMANENT body-altering decisions, like surgery, but should be able to have autonomy when it comes exploring with reversible transition options, like hormones. Maybe you should rewatch the video because you obviously missed pretty crucial aspects of the discussion. I am sure they agree that no child should be getting a double mastectomy before even going on hormones to explore their true identity. It's an unfortunate case and the majority of them did in fact acknowledge that.
@@carleydegruchy7964but as we're starting to find out, hormones (and puberty blockers) are not reversible.
Gender is a made-up social construct that's literally just clothes and behaviour and varies from region to region, so why are we permanently messing around with the natural development of people's bodies when you can just accept that you like to dress however you want & then go on cross-sex hormones/get surgeries as a body mod if you'd really like to when you're an adult?
The extent to which hormones are reversible is not solidified scientifically, in fact there is very little long term research on trans individuals. Most studies are flawed and wouldn't pass AT ALL for any other disease or mental health condition outside of gender dysphoria. While the field is difficult to study, the way they have treated results is... disappointing at best.
A child needs information to form a basis for an opinion from somewhere. Parents, media, professionals, all can influence a decision. Giving a child "space" simply means allowing OTHER forms of influence to take full control. As a society, we have determined that minors DO NOT have the autonomy to make decisions for themselves. Whether this be a tattoo, marriage, sex in some regions, etc. etc. We have decided a woman CANNOT get a breast augmentation prior to 18 even if they have CRIPPLING body dysmorphia. Yet we allow those under 16 to undergo permanant treatments that have no long term studies to back their efficacy? Pretty insane to me.
@@carleydegruchy7964
Luka did NOT deserve to be treated that way. She made valid points and cool calm and collected. They escalated the conversation and would not let her have a full sentence come out her mouth. My Lord so rude to her
As a Black, Christian, Woman, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to everyone’s perspective. Although, I don’t agree with everything, I am learning to respect and show love to EVERYONE!! ❤
Mid video.
amen
it is SO TOXIC that people you met THAT DAY are telling you that your medical diagnosis was wrong. that is troubling
So easy just to pretend desistors and detransitioners "were never really trans" or didn't have "proper gender dysphoria" it risks their whole reality to be open minded about it.
She's a narcissist
“You know yourself better than anyone! Even better than your parents know you!”
Two seconds later to someone she met 5mins prior: “you’re not XYZ, you’re wrong about yourself” 😅 crazy to me she didn’t even realize the irony in her statement
someone who is not trans and perceives themself as the gender they were assigned at birth does not experience gender dysphoria. it’s as simple as that.
now that they have medically changed their bodies they could be seen as having gender dysphoria as they are experiencing 1/10th of what trans people feel but before making those changes no it is clear she was misdiagnosed. no cis person truly feels gender dysphoria
Luka had some insane strength to talk to these other people. I can’t believe how they treated her.
But some were really kind. Like Ari and the girl with long black hair seemed very empathetic I thought
I do wish they didn't interrupt her, but I didn't think people were actively trying to attack her.
@@RG_Eph Sam (trans girls with curly hair) is actually friends with Luka now I believe. I think Sam has a lot of empathy for her but I do think all of them dogpiled on Luka a lot - more than they did Shape or the other girl or David.
@@RG_Eph girl with long black hair was the FIRST to cut her off. First to invalidate her. First to tell her she was misdiagnosed, as if it’s her place. Not empathetic at all
@@justmemessy She cut her off about the one study when ten say the opposite, not about invalidating her specifically
From the moment she spoke, you can hear the pain in Luka's voice. She is clearly well educated on the subject, but not only that, her experiences deserve to feel validated. I really wish nothing but the best on her journey through life. ❤
Of course her experiences should be validated. It's incredibly heartbreaking to hear she had that experience! On the other hand, her experience doesn't necessarily correlate with the experience of others and I think that's what people who underwent detransition oftentimes forget. They want to desperately protect others, even though those others might not feel the same way they do.
I can understand being scared and feeling like your experience isn't valid, but that doesn't mean you should invalidate other people's experiences. That will only cause more hurt.
@@11ozzielover Thats important, Lukas is valid but its not everyone or every teen transitioner ive got trans friends too :)
@@11ozzielover and vise versa. Both sides deserve to be heard and acknowledged and especially considered before anyone transitions. Speaking on the cons of transitioning is just as needed as speaking of the pros.
she’s given amazing interviews-
@@11ozzielover It's not about "feel the same way"! It's pure delusion to think that anyone can transition to the opposite sex.
Luka is a strong intelligent voice with PERSONAL experience backing up her opinions and discoveries along her path - and her experience in the trans community at large - and the MEDICAL community and healthcare system… keep speaking up and educating people.
I hate how they jumped down her throat and disregarded her experience. I applaud her courage for speaking about it.
Her experience is radically different from a typical trans child. It's disgusting that she wants to ban care for trans youth because she made a mistake.
The fact they disregarded Luka and had the nerve to tell her she was misdiagnosed?! Wow.
Because... she was??? tf?
@@CantooniShe said herself multiple times that she experiences gender dysmorphia and still does even after de-transitioning.
It was stated by one of the other people that "nobody knows you more than yourself" and to invalidate that by saying she was just misdiagnosed kind of defeats the purpose of that statement in my opinion.
@@ecw613 so she had mild gender dysphoria, or her dysphoria was probably causes by previous traumas SO her transition wasn't needed. She needed therapy first (at least 1 or 2 years).
She said herself that her dysphoria comes FROM trauma and that it wasn't discussed first or treated at all, and she immediately got approved for surgery without going through all the NECESSARY psychological procedures first, not only was she in some way misdiagnosed, but she was mistreated and in some degree a victim of malpractice because the wrong procedures and treatment were applied to her when she didn't needed them. She should have had plenty of therapy to actually have enough time to properly talk about her situation to THEN decide if surgery was the actual best option, you don't just go to any doctor and get a gender reaffirming surgery like it's freshly baked bread, there's a whole process that SHOULD go first, specially for minors, that she didn't go through. This is not trans people's fault, this is not Luka's fault, this is not the other people in the room's fault, it's the doctor's fault, and the issue with Luka here is that she explains her experience as a way to create a discussion of "I am the reason why kids transitioning is wrong" when in reality what happened to her should NEVER happen to anyone because it's a crime.
I gasped! Like I was so shocked they literally contradicted themselves
looking at luka and hearing her voice and her story made me cry, because you can see how shes hurting and how much it hurts to simply just speak.
Luka we love your vulnerability and hope you feel empowered & loved.
I cried within the first prompt!!
Listen, what happened to Luka was horrible. It really is; it's a situation caused by years of abuse and medical negligence. However, that does not mean that one story negates the research/evidence that gender-affirming care works WHEN USED CORRECTLY. It would be like saying marriage shouldn't be allowed because you experienced domestic abuse.
It really is amazing how a bit of cinematography does wonders for someone's palpability. It's scary how sad violin music convinced so many of you to feel bad for this person
@@AcetylCoA605 there will be people who regret it no matter how much therapy they go thru before transitioning and there will be people genuinely happy that they did transition.. everyone won’t have the same experience. That’s the first thing everyone has to understand.
it's funny that when Luka had a bad experience about her transitionning, they without blinking blame their her parents as responsible for her bad journey. They just without knowing said that kids don't have responsibility in taking a big decision on their bodies and parents are the key holder of their kid safety
Exactly. He said " that's your parents fault for letting you do that,, because they have say so over what you do" But than they said it's inhuman for parents to not allow their kids to transition because it's abuse lol. Which one is it?!?!?!
They literally told on themselves, it's so SAD!
No. Actually they were talking about how Luka’s parent did not do their due diligence and instead just took her to any yahoo they could find instead of researching and finding a reputable doctor.
@@jonathangill6584 Yea they did say to get a second opinion. However, it must be hard for a parent.
@@jonathangill6584no but if a parent goes to a bunch of different doctors just to know for sure the kid who’s brainwashed will go online and blast his/her parents for not being immediately accepting about it
I firmly believe that they should be advocating for mental health services first as a priority. I think it's absolutely insane to be pushing young children into transitioning. Please stop this madness
@8:50 When Luka gave the example of how the medical system took advantage of her, Luckie immediately said her parents were responsible for that happening. But two seconds ago they all said children should have the autonomy to make these decisions for themselves? so which is it? If kids needs parents to oversee their transition and protect them from any malpractice, they clearly aren't ready to make such a decision at that age.
YES!!!! Exactly. they can't have it both ways. And if a parent was to put their foot down and say, no you cant have those medical treatments, then the Trans community would be coming after the parents accusing them of being bigots and denying the child care!
So confusing
Their whole existence is based on confusion. (Dysphoria is a synonym for confused) so its no wonder that their opinions on the topic contradict itself and don’t make sense.
They all didn't say that. Only the black girl said that.
@duane dogsdayout that's happened. Several people have lost custody of their children for not supporting their transition at 6 or 8
Luka was great when Samantha was interrupting her with her “10 studies”. Lowering her voice and slowing down. Great power dynamic.
When Luka spoke at the end about feeling unwanted by the world I just started crying. No one should feel like that. It just broke my heart.
same 😢 she didn't deserve to be treated like that, no one deserves to be treated like that
She is a little annoying tho… she speaks like if whatever she is saying is the absolute truth
@@Angela_0-jq8icHE
@@marcosbravo4293HE
@@marcosbravo4293 It's her experiences? You're so easily unraveled by someone sharing their pain and experiences? Get a life bozo. Your problems are not more important.
Purity blockers are permanent!! children shouldn’t be allowed to get castrated. As a parent you shouldn’t be penalised for not encouraging your child to do it, seek help and advice and be a parent to your children. When they were arguing with Luka they all said “ your parents are responsible “ EXACTLY a child can not be responsible!!!
I don’t think Luka or her parents should be blamed, clearly it’s the doctors fault for misguiding her parents. They should honestly sue if they haven’t already.
There are detrans ppl out there who do sue, it can be difficult tho because of the time limits that different states and insurances have i think
It's the legislators fault for legalising transitioning for kids
@@DashDa5h you mean transitioning?
Blame is irrelevant. Though Luka is spot on with the studies.
Parents definitely are to blame
Luka handled herself with such compassion and intelligence. She brought such an vital perspective to this conversation. I loved this episode and I’m so glad Luka was a part of it.
I just want to give Luka a huge hug and say "I heard you. I listened to every word." Because she was blatantly gaslit and ganged up on.
Not vested in this topic but they were using emotional anecdotal experiences that varies from person to person.
@@Artliker1234 and doctors convincing parents to agree to risky surgeries and hormones by telling parents their child or will be self ending their life if they don’t transition isnt dishonest and emotionally manipulative?
Tbh I’m not interested in the topic but she was the most composed so far 🌚 (I’m still in the process of watching the video 🤣)
@@3K2-k3m lol same.. but for me, it's david as well..
@@SuperSarahbop it is abusive of the system, but its already hard enough for many to find proper gender affirming care. the answer is not to limit it because of bad actors, but provide funding resources for people to get therapy and proper care for transitioning and remove stigma around what it means to be trans(which luka also sadly experienced)
I had gender disphoria in puberty, turned out I am on the spectrum and bi, let kids explore themselves without mutilating their body (can't believe I actually have to write it..)
Yes! Thank you.
Luka comes out the strongest in this debate. Calm, eloquent, passionate and reasonable. Well done. Everyone else seems like they’re on a mission to repeat slogans.
Luka perfectly exposed the hypocrisy of the trans community and how their unrealistic demands are a threat to the health and well being of children
Lmao ok sure
@@bareq99Be delusional if you wish.
@@iris7301 don't worry I have my med school studies to affirm me with the facts 👍
@@bareq99where your dad
If i was Luka, i wouldve almost screamed from all that gaslighting. She is so brave, and i hope she continues to tell her story
Honestly i would have walked out.
Bruhhh the “HONEY” that Arisce threw at her came off as so aggressive… Luka is so strong
10000%
When did they gaslight her?
@@Pear2323it’s a made up word for people they disagree with
I'm definitely team Luka. I applaud her transparency and brutal honesty even when it was clearly hard for her to do so
TRANSparency?
Hated watching everyone jump on Luka like that, they seem like a great person. Also shout out to Shapes, they're amazing.
Luka is a badass!
i hated how everyone jumped at her when she asked if kids should be able to get tattoos etc and they got MAD lol it’s TRUE. if kids shouldnt be able to put permanent tattoos on their body, why should they be able to make the permanent medical transition of removing their breasts or genitalia …? like ??
@@juliakirk2444
Perhaps because no transsexual (or at least the vast majority) wants children to have permanent surgeries, when they say they want them to have treatment for their gender dysphoria, they are generally only talking about pubery blockers that are reversible, which is not no child mutilation.
The way Samantha and the other transitioners are trying to invalidate Luka's story is not only disturbing, but it is dangerous. You don't invalidate someone else's story just to validate your own.
Luke is doing the same thing to them but she's got that victim card so played out even she can't see past it anymore.
@@SarahTurner-ne8nblmfao
Luka stayed really calm and collected and spoke very intelligently, and almost everyone tried to silence her. She deserved better from this conversation.
Nobody tried to silence her. They were affirming and trying to understand her experience.
@@simplyepic3258 you must be blind lmfao
I experienced her as delegitimizing and patronizing. Her experiences negated anyone else's in this conversation.
@@cs2d20 You must be a conservative LMFAO
@@mitch103178u must be slow LMFAO
The pain I hear in Lukas voice is just so heartbreaking, and the fact that anybody would want to try and diminish or invalidate her experiences is incredibly aggravating.
Exactly !!!! 😢
You can tell Luka is a very troubled person and needs lot of therapy ASAP.
And I feel like a few of the transitioned individuals attempted to do that. Kind of throwing away her experiences with "oh well then others messed up (but everyone consented and went along with it)" shifting blame off the situation to whoever it sounded best for in that line of questioning.
It was sad. I feel for Luka. She's had a rough series of events, and I hope she finds the things she needs to work through the trauma that was ignored in her youth. She doesn't deserve to have to live with that burden for the length of her life.
He was being real tho and that's his realism
@@brief402 nobody invalidated her, they just realize that you can’t use Luka’s situation to describe anyone else’s.
Luka being so vulnerable and open and them shutting her down and being defensive was not it
Protecting the narrative is more important than listening to someone who's experienced things debunking it. It's TOTALLY an ideology, damn near a cult.
they do not wanna hear the truth, they rather deny reality. Luka is a beautiful and intelligent woman.
@@Rhiorrha If its a cult, then who's the cult leader?
just because luka was soft spoken it doesn't mean the others were wrong for disagreeing with her.
Satan…Hollywood…Social Media
I think that it should be REQUIRED to have a minimum of 2yrs of psycho therapy if you want to transition and/or do cosmetic surgeries such as BBL's, Plastic surgeries on the face, and some bodies, and some weight loss surgeries especially if younhave had 1 in the past. because some of this is just mental and desperate need of mental health care.
The amount of empathy that Samantha lacked is INSANE. She came, sat next to Luka, immediately prioritized her own opinion of child transitioning over Luka's traumatic experiences with blatant acidity in her words, rudely cut off her response and was just overall noxious in her attitude towards her. This woman telling her traumatic experience offended her and she made no qualms about coming at her for it. I am blown away.
Luka can’t prioritize her own experinece over the majority of trans kids transitioning helps. This kind of debate should be based on facts and data, not personal experiences.
@@soph1645People transitioning is based on THEIR FEELINGS.
@@soph1645 Well the facts are you can't change your gender/sex. You can't change race, eye color, hair color, or height either. Best you can do is mask it.
Luka did not prioritize her own experience. She simply used that as an example to why people need to set boundaries to letting children explore the possibilities without going through surgery as such a young age! Seriously not hard to set boundaries.
Samantha is a 100% narcissist. I saw her video and that's how I made my opinion
Hate how Luka was repeatedly shut down for having a different perspective. She believes she was pushed and her parents were scared into her transitioning. That’s valid. And many children who were transitioned in haste in the name of fixing their “hardware” will feel that way in the future. I can’t imagine the medical issue these people will have.
worst part about fixing their "hardware" is they potentially can no longer have kids if they ever detransition.
@@drensky777 I feel bad for people like jazz Jennings and Chloe cole they. Jazz went through transition because his mom
Wanted a girl, and now he’s suffering through depression and anxiety because of all the mutilation surgeries, his case reminds of David Reimers case from 17 years ago. Chloe Cole stated that it was so easy for the surgeries to happen, the doctors basically lied to her parents about her mental state to push them to sign the consent form.
What I see is Greed, Harm, and borderline Paedophelia.
She had the most logical points. How could any medical professional say "do you want a living son or a dead daughter?" Or whatever.
That's literally just emotional manipulation and it's the go to move in the Trans community. To hold you hostage.
@@drensky777 having children.. never wanted any.
My heart broke for luka when she said that no community wants her after she detransitioned 😢😢
It’s so insane how rude they were to luka, the transitioned side was so intolerant to any views and they had a lot of anger, we’re always over speaking And invalidating experiences
Sadly mirrors a large chunk of the trans movement.
I don’t think any of them came at Luka in an angry way. If anything they were just defensive which makes sense considering trans people are attacked across the country.
@@minniemystic but luka never did anything barely rude or condescending to them, so why not being more empathetic?
@@tenscar6131 In my opinion Luka was very condescending and kept trying to generalize the entire issue by making it seem like her experience was normal. What the mental health "professionals" did to her is not what a normal gender affirming treatment process looks like, it's severe misconduct and probably illegal. It shows that the question whether GAT should be banned is not the issue, but rather that we should have stricter control and guideline enforcement in the medical industry. But she didn't even consider any of this, instead she deliberately tried to paint all medical practicioners in a bad light. The ironic thing is that she keeps saying how her trauma made her believe things that weren't true but doesn't realize that it's happening again: her trauma of being misdiagnosed made her believe that this is what ALL trans people experience even though she is a part of only 0.4% of all trans people who detransitioned because they felt that they were actually the gender that they were born as (Source: Hildebrand-Chupp, Rowan. (2020). More than ‘canaries in the gender coal mine’: A transfeminist approach to research on detransition. The Sociological Review. 68. 800-816. 10.1177/0038026120934694.).
@@paracosm-cc it’s actually disgustingly common throughout our healthcare system. They are vile and they are leaches. Do you know how much money they make from all of this? They receive anywhere between $200,000 to $300,000 for each client who transitions. This price includes surgery’s, medicines, therapists, & more. FOR ONE PERSON! It’s all about the money. It is ALWAYS about the money. These people do not want to help you and so yes. MOST of these “Doctors” are going to give you an easy pass bc it is an easy buck
- Luka talks about how doctors took advantage of her and how a kid must have guard rails over their actions
-Every trans person AGREES and just tells her it's a one-off thing "miss diagnosed" SMH
-Arisce: I always knew who I am and no one knows me better; minutes later "you had to get a second opinion honey"
"Your parents are responsible for the decisions they made on your behalf" => the parents aren't the ones suffering in her body :v
The “honey” pisses me off so much…. Literally dismissing one of the few people that they can actually relate to while being so condescending
That's insane when I heard that. Totally dismissive of Luka's experience. The lack of accountability in their own words is insane. How they argue against parents putting strict boundaries, but then say it's the parents and doctors fault. Such cowards just shifting blame as soon as it doesn't fit their agenda. "Oh you're a de-transitioner? It was your parents and doctors fault." "Oh your parents doesn't support you transitioning? Well they're being oppressive and transphobic." Make it make sense.
"They not just doling out surgeries to children. that's not whats happening" "Literally happened to me" "that was your parents' fault"
WHAT?!?
She can't use her fringe, wierd, completely unheard of experience, to argue against transition as a whole, that's disingenuous.
@@Chloeprettyoccasionally most kids with gender dysphoria grow out of it in adulthood
While they started gaslighting at 8:45 about her parents being misled, if TWO ADULTS were misled what made you think impressionable children won't be?
They contradict their own opinions coz they're pathalogical liars. They can't help but lie to others and themselves.
Exactly 💯 💯
Deadass
@@zendangeredI mean look at them they're very clearly confused and refuse to accept reality
The argument they try to make is children aren't impressionable and know themselves better than anyone with life experience or wisdom. They also contradict it by saying parents are at fault if anything negative happens.
Oh wow the hypocrisy from samantha, luckie, and arisce is very disgusting and discouraging to this discourse. Especially from Samantha saying people need diagnoses but telling Luka she was misdiagnosed.
Samantha is a bully mean girl, you can tell in her face she is so full of herself. She thinks she is a celebrity.
Luka WAS misdiagnosed. Do you not know what a misdiagnosis is? Luka is NOT trans, so she did not and DOES NOT HAVE gender dysphoria.
Luka told herself that she had a trauma and that´s where her gender dysphoria stems - so she clearly was misdiagnosed. Not with gender dysphoria but with being trans. It seemed like Samantha didn´t know that gender dysphoria could have other causes or maybe it was just a misunderstandig and she thought that gender dysphoria stemming not from being trans but from other causes is called body dysmorphia for example. It also seemed like Samantha understood the point of Luka having gender dysphoria because of a trauma.
The way they treated Luka during the first promps is shameful. I feel so bad for her. I hope she is ok and healing, she is clearly still suffering and it makes me sad to see the others weren't able to address they different points of view with more empathy and care when talking to her at the beginning of the video.
Agreed, they somewhat just dismissed her point and story because it contradicted what they said.
Perfect example of if you don’t fit their narrative, they don’t claim you as part of the community. Interesting to see they all agreed on the prompt that the LGBTQ+ community is not as loving. That’s exactly how some of them treated her and a couple of others in this video. They have to be so defensive and get that affirmation for themselves. Even if it’s okaying transitioning so early on to children. Sad.
she was being rude and was practically claiming that all trans experiences are like hers in that they’re ALL getting abused and exploited and taken advantage of when theyre not. She’s being defensive of a single position, that’s why every had an issue w her
@@awesxmeasfxck that’s subjective but she didn’t come off as rude to me just passionate . However their responses were rude. They don’t like anyone going against their ideology and community. If anything her being a former trans person makes her even more credible to conservative ideology that trans lifestyle is more mental than anything. Trans ppl are very condescending in their approach if you don’t agree with their perception of reality. And all the videos I’ve seen especially with the black trans women they are very disrespectful to “cis “ black women and see it as a competition
@@nurseb124 Black trans women are make up over half of all anti-LGBTQ homicides, so forgive them for being "feisty" or whatever.
it was so heartbreaking watching the way everyone tried to invalidate and talk over Luka, and her still staying calm and rational
i thought they were really pleasant to luka. i saw no disrespect, others tried to understand luka validate but also put feedback that luka's scenario is not every scenario. i think that's valid in itself.
@@sisterslurpthattea9880”well you need to get a second opinion honey” mmm yeah super pleasant. Like wtf?
Cause if you disagree with anything the trans community says your automatically villainized
Almost like having to relive her past 😢
@@sisterslurpthattea9880 they took her experience and minimized it, it was traumatic and terrible for her and they just dismissed it. I wouldn't wish that experience of hers on anyone.
First they say that children should have bodily autonomy but then say it’s the parents responsibility?! Make it make sense
That part threw me off too. It made me think of Jazz because she is suffering thanks to her parents.
The arguements were just not consistent. "You can't jump into these decisions...because you're feeling a certain way." Isn't that what you're arguing for?
excatly!! the hypocrisy in this video is ridiculous
They dont think
Trans have always said that children should have the bodily autonomy to use puberty blockers and always said that children shouldn’t have surgeries until 18. Surgery is where the line was drawn because it’s irreversible and puberty blocker is reversible. It’s very clear to me. What are you confused about?
“We have to accept people for who they are”.. but you don’t accept yourself the way you are.
They do accept themselves... as trans
I felt so bad for Luka, her story was just absolutely sad and i cant believe how they were just trying to belittle her for her experience and make her seem like she was anti-trans just because she doesnt want kids to have to go through the bad side like wtf
That’s what cult members do
Yep. This is what happens when people with serious mental health problems are exploited. Very sad indeed.
Well she didn’t seem to care to much about the trans side stories either.
Yes i saw that to that is why i said i am so sorry for her. and that it is not her Faulth or her Parents ,those people are crazy.
@@soph1645that’s what you took away from this?
Wow the fact that Samantha the most misunderstanding person in this video is an ‘influencer’ is very concerning to me, the way she treated Luka was awful
Ik I used to watch her when I listened to what she had to say here I was like… whole different person..
not in the very end though
@@Pawzleyy She's awful and she's always been awful. She's been pushing literally tens of thousands of people into transitioning using her youtube channel. People have had their lives ruined now, irreparably.
The fact that you were watching her and thought she was great, says a lot about how easily misled you are as a person. You should definitely be more careful in your life. The moment I first saw one of her videos I knew she was bad
He* lol
@@Pawzleyy seems like the true person came out 😔😔😔 its really sad when someone you watched ends up being a mean person
STOP INVALIDATING LUKA! She's been through so much and who are you to make her feel that she's on the wrong side when she genuinely wants to protect Children? Oh my gosh. Luka Im on your side! You courage for speaking the truth in front of these people is admirable. I wish you all the best.
this.
nobody is doing that...
@@prudenceneverpays watch at around the 8min-10min mark and come back and tell us otherwise.
@@prudenceneverpays stop the cap.
@@alienlover7556 What they were doing is saying that they feel horrible about what Luka was going through, but that Luka's situation isn't what should be happening. They all believe that you should be going to many appointments before making that decision. They said that Luka's story was a great example of why this needs to be talked about more. They believe it should be open to minors as long as they go through a long period of therapy and psychoanalysis before this decision.
This is probably the best jubilee middle ground video I've watched. Little to no fighting, all people involved are so understanding and willing to hear other people's thoughts and experiences while being respectful. This is meant to be the point of these videos.❤
I hate the disrespect they're showing Luka. She is completely valid too. Both "sides" can be valid in their own way, based on their own experiences. This is so upsetting to watch.
Trans "People" have no morals and need mental help.
Idk i want to feel that way, but they lost all validity to me once they treated her that badly. I really hope that they see this and learn how horrible they were to her in this video.
They totally ganged up on her, and you could hear and see the way it impacted her
Can't talk with mentally ill people
@@shadesteel9247 They'll never see it...
These videos are for other people so SEE it.
How they invalidated Luka knowing millions of people would see this is absolutely mindblowing. What a strong person she is for handling it all with grace
I'm not sure they realise they're doing it :(
so true luka did an amazing job
She was kinda invalidating trans people's well-being who transitioning in early age saved their lives (and the future ones that it's going to be) through arguing that transitioning should not be done under 18 because she had a bad experience, despite the fact that literally every single research indicates the regret rate for it is significantly low, so that's that.
@@Namanzw there are many studies on the regret rate for transitioning (hormone therapy mainly) and they all indicate a 1- 4 percent of regret for transitioning, of which even a smaller percentage detransitioned.
@@Blue-kz3yk you can’t invalidate anyone without their consent. That explains why the trans women got so aggressive and Luka didn’t. In spite of all the stuff Luka is dealing with she actually has a handle on knowing that outside validation isn’t the path while the validation of others is the trans women on this panels entire identity.
Samantha literally told luka she was wrong about every statement about her experience. I hope Luka finds a community. The trans group was very disrespectful to her.
Yeah, I’m trans, and one thing that has always disturbed me is how rudely people treat detransitioners. There are definitely really rude detransitioners - I’ve heard many - but I forgive them because they are clearly going through a lot. Mind you, Luka isn’t one of the rude ones.
I personally think that trans people are just rude to detransitioners because simply speaking about their own experience, to them, is challenging their experience, it’s invalidating them. If someone JUST says their story, never taking a dig at yours, why should you take a dig at theirs?
Because Samantha is a narcissist.
@@ShadowdaleAno she's not
@@gabeyortiz2018Samantha very obviously has personal issues that are being projected into others.
@@HabitualJoker nah she doesn't
I really wish we could get a panel of people discussing the science behind puberty blockers and HRT and how it impacts minors vs adults after going through puberty . Based on all my research I've only seen it as harmful for trans youth to not go through their puberty because of the negative outcomes if they choose "bottom surgery" especially in trans women . I am really glad that it seems that all the people agree that psychiatric care and therapy are important when it comes to transitioning because it's important for anyone who is going through anything hard to seek guidance and healing in order to be confident in the next steps no matter what .
-“kids should be able to make decisions about their own anatomy”
- “I was misdiagnosed and offered surgery”
-“well that was your parents fault they should have made a better decision for you “
🫠these people don’t even see the hypocrisy in what they say 🤦🏽♀️
"Kids should be able to make decisions about their own anatomy"
I agree with this! Kids work to pay the bills, taxes, to provide themselves and their family with food, clothes, water, healthcare, sometimes pay to send them to private school, a roof to live under, and electronic devices.....oh wait I'm thinking of the parents. If parents are legally responsible for their children's mistakes (since minors cannot be sued), they absolutely have a say in what goes on with their children.
@@slayer5922 their job is to literally protect the child from things like this. Children can be sold dreams without understanding the truth of the world. These people sell those dreams to the weak and then abandon them when reality sets in.
Exactly ! I’m at this point in the video and I’m astounded. The idiocy and complete lack of self awareness is insane. I don’t know if I can even continue with these people gaslighting Luka like that.
It's really the doctors fault. There needs to be a standard for diagnosing gender dysphoria. Seems like many detransitioners only learn what gender dysphoria really is after they transition and realise they were never actually trans.
It is very much her parents and her doctors' fault for not getting more than one opinion. That goes for any medical service. Should we ban braces just because some orthodontists recommend them to people with jaw deformities who'll suffer from them? Or should people go get second opinions before anything is done. Luca's parents literally let her get her tiddies snipped after ONE session with a therapist. That's on them.
They really did dismiss Luka here. They did it because they know her experience would be used to invalidate other trans experiences. But they absolutely invalidated her. They said her parents are at fault for her transition but would also criticize parents for not giving their children full autonomy over their bodies to get their surgeries. This is a grey area topic. I understand that detransisition rarely happens. But as a cis person. Transition also rarely happens. So a trans person and a detransitioning person are both rare to me. And as a parent. I need to be informed of both possible outcomes if I had a child questioning their gender identity and expression.
@@galenodel3283Trans people only 'bully' detransitioners when they try using it to argue against trans teens (like me) transitioning. She's obviously here to further her agenda against us.
@@Chloeprettyoccasionally41%
@@daskii7635 What?
@@ChloeprettyoccasionallyIt’s not “bullying”, it is bullying. If you can’t accept that there can be multiple opinions at once, then you shouldn’t live in a democracy. You should probably move to a tyrannical society like China where only one opinion can exist.
@@daskii7635 That's because of people like Luka.
Trans side: "Parents should listen to their kids when they tell them that they're trans"
Luka: telling them that she has body dysmorphia and she shouldn't have been transitioned as a child
Trans side: "It's your parent's fault"
Please make it make sense, these people are only running their mouths, they don't know what they are talking about.
This comment needs more upvotes, their arguments lost all credibility once they said that.
🎯 This was the contradiction that no one in the discussion caught.
@@jadesmith7983 umm no
Exactly! Her parents listened to what she felt and then she ended up dissatisfied and de transitioned.
Well not taking it out of context. The fault is on parents due to not following up with the therapy to dive deeper into the topic was their fault. Their child was already in therapy for something else and then unloaded this feeling onto them and from there they were directed to go to another type of therapist for the transitional aspect. In between the original therapist and the transition therapist is where the parents should have sought help on the topic rather than just go by a feeling their child brought up in a session in which the therapist had no background. The point is transition does work for most young people who know. Should they be able to start a process sure and therapy and research is part of that process.
I find it quite ironic. That the side that is pushing for children to have bodily autonomy. In regards to their ability to transition. Are also the one saying, your parents should have pushed back against those doctors. It's your parents responsibility. They should have stopped the doctor. You're not really diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The second that their logic is applied to a real world situation. It becomes a very strong line of it's time to blame the victim. While also tapping you sensitively on the lap. And saying they're there. You actually don't know yourself. The rest of us do. But because it went wrong for you, you do not know yourself.
Luka talks about being fully convinced and convincing everyone else, then goes on to blame everyone else for her choices. Then starts advocating against ppl being heard.
She made decisions she regrets and is trying to curb ppl's rights to make their own decisions.
She's a victim of her decisions and wants to use that to limit other ppl's rights.
@@SarahTurner-ne8nb SHE. WAS. A. CHILD.
The whole point of not allowing children to make life changing decisions is because they might be mistaken.
She is absolutely not responsible for what happened.
Seeing everyone dismiss luca feeling and pretend like its just "her" situation, broke me
Detransitioners (especially ones that go on hormones) are extremely rare - like 1-2%
They should be respected and their stories should be shared but too many people think it’s like 50/50
@@chloefoster2429 Well it’s not. There’s actually many more detransitioners than you think.
@@chloefoster2429 it's funny isn't it? People like you have been saying the percentage is 1%. Then you said it's definitely less than 1%. Now apparently it's going up again "1-2%". Oh really??? Finally realising something is up, are we? You awful person
@@HopefulInterventions Exactly. The 1-2% only accounts for those who self reported detransitioning.
They’re like “well, you were misdiagnosed.” Like that didn’t ruin this person’s life. How many more kids may be getting misdiagnosed?
Luka deserves a hug. I’m really proud of her.
Same she’s so strong
yeah honestly watching them go after her like that sickened me. Completely invalidated her and refuse to even acknowledge how minors shouldn't be making those decisions.
Made me feel so bad because she said she had a traumatic experience at a young age and no one empathized with her
I almost cried every time she talked
It is so disgusting how they're invalidating Luka's lived experiences. You can't go from "nobody knows better than I do about who I am" to "It was your parents job to get second opinion and not let you go through with something that wasn't you" like how do they (looking at Samantha) not see the hypocrisy???
You missed the entire point. Looking for multiple opinions on life changing decisions is kinda common sense. Puberty blockers are for teens. So when they hit 16 they get to make the decision with a therapist if they are ready to start hrt. Jumping into it with only one opinion is really the parents fault.
There is studies proving 98% of teens start hrt after puberty blockers and transition into adulthood happily. Luka is blanketing the entire medical field because of one therapist and their parents not doing research.
@@Fiorwestcoast why would you need second opinions when the child knows best?
@@minnamandariini4843 children know when they are trans. However you always get a second opinion. 98% of children transition into adulthood happily.
@@Fiorwestcoast there are children out there that just aren’t sure. What about them? Just let them wait until 18 to do anything permanent.
@@Fiorwestcoast where did you get 98% from ?
I support gender affirming care but agree that there is a need for more safety checks in place for someone like Luka. The thing is that there already are so many safety checks in place regarding requirements for therapy, mental health assessments, sitting on a waiting list for multiple years…it makes me wonder how someone like Luka passed all those checks without a single medical professional questioning if Luka was ready for transitioning.