Middleground ideas: Male Feminists vs Female Antifeminists Creationist Christians vs Evolutionist Christians Pro-life democrats vs Pro-choice democrats Pro-life republicans vs Pro-choice republicans Pro-life democrats vs Pro-choice republicans
@@justina2320 It doesn’t really matter much if they agree with each other in the end, it’s the bit where everything was “what if’s” and no facts, crappy debate
You can definitely win arguments against ignorant people, they usually stop responding or block you, I've had many feminists do that when they realise they have no chance against my big brain when all they bring are their incorrect regurgitated quotes. Let's look at these people, they're feminists so sure they're correct they'll go on a show and debate and what do they bring "they're a clump of cells", like how little debate have they ever done that they would STILL use that pathetic quote? Everyone is a clump of cells. That's the immediate thing everyone would say to that, you don't even need to be anti feminist to figure that out, yet they still say it, it's pathetic lol
@@Death-999 so we as human beings are equivalent to something which doesn’t even have the ability to form a thought are you vegan ? Have you ever walked on grass because essentially it’s the same thing a baby is completely different to a foetus if you don’t agree you haven’t been to school and if you have go back
The fact that one woman who asked to “define a woman.” Then went on a rant to how you can’t be a woman if there’s an ‘idea’ in your head that you are a woman and then said that she has a trans friend is crazy to me. Why is your friend a woman to you but other people aren’t?
@Barby Madison No it isn't, that seems like something a woman would say if she's insecure about how others will look at her. Nike wants to be a housewife of her own choice or are you going to ignore and disregard a fellow woman's words when they don't match up with your idea of feminism? 🤔
@@fearfullywonderfullymade691 when women are forced to be stay at home moms, then yeah, it is an issue. I am absolutely not traditional at all, but I CHOOSE to stay home with my son. It's where I'm happiest. But if I wanted to work outside of the home, that's what I would do. If I had a high paying job and my husband wanted to stay home, I'd support that. It's about equality and the freedom to choose in my family what we want to do. My husband doesn't rule the roost.
We all remember because this saying is everywhere on youtube it’s annoying. On every video where a child is harmed / let down by the parents the top comment is always this exact quote.
I'm an Iranian woman. Contrary to Arielle's opinion, feminists did stand up for us! Iraninan feminists! Feminism is not limited to american/western people
Western feminists and western women generally, have spent 40 years silencing all support for Iranian women fighting religious oppression (under the false "Islamophobia). Only since last year, when men also became victims, did western women stand up. And I'm not talking about pockets of support, such as among atheists, I'm talking about generalised support, like 1000s in the streets of Toronto. We can thank men for dying, because when it's only women dying, the world just don't care.
Exactly! As an Iranian girl living in Iran, I also have to add that since 1980, transgender individuals were officially recognized by the government! On top of that, they receive financial assistance being provided by the government for the sex reassignment surgery. The government also covers the cost of birth certificate and any other certificate change. I wish people like Arielle will learn to at least do a simple search before running their ignorant mouth.
When she said "I don't even think that I'm not being represented even in ads, I don't care" that's when I knew she had 0 regard for other people's feelings and views. And there's no way you can convince someone so inherently selfish otherwise.
isabella throughout this WHOLE episode was very much “if i don’t see it and if it doesn’t negatively effect my life it’s not happening. it’s not a big deal” vibes and that was WILD especially coming from teen parents
“Feminism is anything you want it to be” 22:33. This is the problem. People are fighting over a term that means something completely different to each individual.
I believe the reason why this statement is so broad is mostly because feminism's definition is broad in itself. Feminism is the concept that men and women should be equal. At first, the fight was mostly about rights, but as our society evolved, it has become a fight for equal opportunities (especially career, society and safety opportunities) and lately we did devolve in human rights with roe v wade, so it's important to keep feminism alive and keep evolving, not devolving.
Absolutely. I find that a lot of disagreements come from differences in definitions. If you are going to have a serious conversation about a certain topic, you have to define the terms related to that topic, otherwise you can just go in circles all day.
I agree. A lot of the arguments were about things that most people fundamentally agree on, just with a lack of understanding. But generally, there are two ways I see it defined; an equality movement focused on correcting inequalities for women, and ideas generally held by people who are feminists. I believe the feminists viewed the word more as the former definition and the anti-feminists viewed the word as the latter.
when riki said “i shouldn’t have to tell you that story for you to understand that there are certain things that you have not experienced that oppress other people”🔥
"Patriarchy" as an oppressive and misogynistic system is a pure creation of late-sixties radical feminism. It does not exist as such and it is contradicted by evolutionary biology, history and anthropology, as long as one bases oneself on factual data and not on the deconstructivist ideology of gender studies. "Oppressive patriarchy" is a mystification that the following articles each explore in their own way. It must be said and said again: the victim paradigm according to which the history of male/female relations is part of a vertical relationship of "male domination" is an intellectual imposture and an ideological construction resulting from the radical feminism of the end of the 1990s. sixties. Prior to the 1960s, the concept of "patriarchy" did not exist.
You might think this is a hottake, but I literally know feminists who think housewife = slavery and the fact that women still want to do it, a sign that we havent ovethrown pateiarchy
That whole anti feminist side is terminally online. They didn’t even take to time to try and understand the other side either, they also thought that because they didn’t like the feminist, the feminist would dislike them as well which shows by how hostile they were.
She didn't say that at all. She said she got back-lash when wanting to be a house wife. I think misrepresenting what someone says is a terminally online take.
I noticed how Arielle almost agrees with the feminist a couple times, and then looks back to see if the Antifeminist agree, and then changes her mind if they don’t agree. Thats follower behavior in my opinion
And it's funny because they are villanizing all feminists based on the actions of a few as if feminist are the followers as if we didn't start following this movement based on the ideals of the movement
And it's funny because they are villanizing all feminists based on the actions of a few as if feminist are the followers as if we didn't start following this movement based on the ideals of the movement and not a couple people's bad actions
Yes, but tbf, being a feminist is a follower ideology. Is it a coincidence that all these women believe the same thing? Did evolution evolve where the peak of womanhood is to believe in feminism? No. It's an ideology that has imposed itself and everyone is a follower. Which is perhaps for the best. We shouldn't have a society where every ignorant individual thinks they reached the truth.
I think there could be if reasonable people were invited, but that doesn't generate content and drama. Look at all the Isabelle comments. She was only invited by production so we can rage in the comments.
Feminists aren’t very smart same with black movement it’s the same thing it separates us more than brings people together it segregates and excludes people
@@Lemmeknowlemmeknow One example, she said in the video that she was very conflicted when it came to abortion because externally, her mother was very pro abortion/choice, but at the same time, she told her daughters that they should never get one
I interpeted her comment in a way like what are western feminists doing for Iranian fight for equality, but I may be wrong.. Either way, I really hope Iranian people win the fight and get their freedom back! Much love from Croatia!
She was talking about western feminist not supporting Iran.Although I'd still disagree with her because I did see a lot of western support unlike the case with french muslim women.
@@LuciKaede They’re speaking up, talking about it, bringing light to the issues, and identifying the women who are actively fighting and have died doing so. What more can western women do? Physically go to Iran and beat up the government?
living in spain, i think this conversation would be harder to have just because i think i've met ONE woman here who's an antifeminist and only because she's a conspiracy theorist that thinks, for example, that my brother is autistic because he had vaccines
I'd love to see a discussion between male feminists and female antifeminists. One hour of women telling men how men feel and men "defending" women. Pure entertainment for sure
@@Bocqurant and nobody answered is my point, the mediator said focus on the topic when the topic isn’t secure to everyone, so how can they stay in topic when the definition of woman is up in the air?
Arielle wasn't there to debate she was there to talk AT people. She sat down, instantly asked a question that was nonsensical to the discussion at hand and then proceeded to interupt everyone every chance she got.
💯💯💯I literally am 2 minutes in and I ran to the comments because she already aggravated me!!! She IMMEDIATELY came in aggressive for no reason! Tryna argue not debate. Smh
@@Max4ZI was browsing the comments and saw you here from 2 months ago to 3 weeks ago maybe more, you came back to this video purely to argue with a wall about something you are clearly unknowledgeable about lol. Please go back to watching something you want like goku clips to save everyone’s time, including yours.
As a middle eastern woman, Arielle bringing up the Iran issue made my soul shrivel. No feminists are speaking up about the issue in Iran? Does she think the Irani women there actively fighting against their government are anti feminist? The phrase Zan, Zendegi, Azadi literally translates to "women, life, freedom" and she claims its not a feminist issue?
@@andsoitbegins_there’s many trans women you would never assume are transgender. If they’re going through the word looking like women they’ll be treated like women. Do you think people only discriminate against women at birth???
Arielle is a hard pill to swallow but I think that the point is valid in the sense that many feminists in places like the States don't care about issues facing women in places like Iran that are definitely more hostile toward them. There are certainly feminists in Iran taking care of business.
Why do Americans think that it’s “the only place ON EARTH” where you can achieve your goals ?!?? Seriously that statement made me think Jill was delusional
She was they use it to not accept that we deserve better conditions that allow people to thrive and it’s all on you which fine but it’s egotistical and not the best for humanity ❤😂
@@justicedoesntexist1919 you think she's mean? try knowing that 2+2=4, but we live in a "truth" where 2+2= anything but 4, and if you try to claim that 2+2 = 4, you're gonna be in trouble.
The opposite of that is also true. There are those on the feminist side that say, because it happened to me, it’s all that exist and they apply their blanket to it.
JUBILEE: PLEASE TRY THIS. INSTEAD OF HAVING THEM STAND NEXT TO EACHOTHER IN THE OPEN WHEN ASKED THE QUESTION. DO SOMETHING WHERE IT BLOCKS THEM FROM SEEING EACHOTHER UNTIL THEY GET TO THE CHAIRS! I feel like sometimes they see the other(s) walk up so they join them. I also notice they look at their neighbor as well. Would be cool to see what they really really think. I feel like seeing others stay or go psychologically changes something even if just very small. Just a suggestion but I think would be a great touch. Thanks!
1) It sways other peoples opinion when interacting with each-other and the audience's opinions 2) Takes up time and isn't relevant 3) People's personal lives can be used as a cudgel against them in the conversation
Isabella: white women privilege, if I don’t experience it, it doesn’t exist Nike: mommy issues Arielle: just wants beef Jill: white women privilege pt 2
Feminism, in my opinion, doesn’t mean you have to be a CEO or you shouldn’t be a stay at home mom. It means you should have the option to be either or. Discussions like this are important to have to better understand others’ mindsets. Great episode👍🏽
@@barbrothers2 I know that but obviously some of the women in the video thought otherwise. And is not just that. What about abortion? Why don’t people just mind their business and focus on themselves?
jubilee was FOUL for cutting off that amazing point; "if they don't have enough money to go get an abortion, what makes you think they'll have enough money to raise the kid." or smthg like that. that is an excellent point that i want answered by the other side.
Nike didn't really come off as strongly settled in her opinions. I honestly got the feeling from almost every single prompt that she was hit hard by her mother's illness whom she idolized but also resented for staying with her father.
@@CoochSmooch incels share a hatred towards (progressive) woman... theyre entitled sexist loosers... if theyre fundamentally broken then its bc theyre miserable ppl...
i agree. i felt a bit bad for her. it seems like her negative experiences w her family are getting to her esp now that she’s at an age where she wants a family of her own. i wish her luck
Nike sounds like she's centered most of her ideas of antifeminism around her mother. A lot of the hypocrisy she pointed out went back to examples of her mother. She expressed her feelings of feeling neglected because her mother didn't have time to fit into her traditional role of motherhood as she was too busy fighting for the movement. It's nice how everyone would let her divert so much because it sounded like she was venting... 👀 Edit: This is just pointing out Nike... But most if not all of the anti-feminists have their views mainly centered around 'I' and 'self' which is why it might be hard to for them to hear the other side 😂 the lady said it so beautifully at the beginning of the video... It's literally about everyone being allowed to choose what's going to work for them. If traditional roles are for you,, that's perfect. If not, great too! You are making choices that affect your life. Just live it responsibility 🤷♀️
I think Nike had an aversion to the label of feminism, but if she saw feminism as the push for economic, social, and personal equality, regardless of sex, gender, race, etc, she wouldn't have been so opposed to it. Also when she high fived jill after she said "i rarely see women on social media who are not an ethnicity", despite preaching against cultural ignorance was almost upsetting because nobody even mentioned that everyone is an ethnicity.
The fact that Arielle said that the friend of Riki that she shouldn’t have “spread her legs” to not get pregnant, the fact that Riki had to say that her friend was r*ped was a bombshell, Arielle should’ve thought a bit longer before making those comments
Why is it a "bombshell"? If you consented to sèx, it's perfectly reasonable to say you need to take responsibility for the resulting pregnancy. It's an entirely different scenario in case of assault
yes!! it's extremely disrespectful and if I was there they would've been yelled at because you need to let me FINISH my point before starting yours. You'd think adults could have healthy discourse but no, everytime there's confrontation and disagreements certain people become gradeschool kids again
@@HughMungousPC It taught me a lot, actually, I wanna call myself a feminist and it helps educate me on certain topics like the inherently racist one... i live in a very sheltered home, and i didn't realize some of these thing
No riki was not allowing anyone to speak. And she kept speaking and was so wrong about so many things Edit: who is here after Olympics banned transgenders from competitions in female track?
Feminists are loud, masculine and annoying. Gotta speak over them to get a point across. Being judged for being white will cause you to speak louder and more. Just like I would expect if I judged a black person for being black.
I hate how a lot of their conversations were about America and the American experience, when feminism isn't just about American women. Feminism is fighting for the rights of women around the world, and those who only point out issues in America are incredibly privileged.
I found it so sad that people like Isabella can't understand that just because something hasn't happen to her or she doesn't "see" or never thought about it, doesn't mean that thing isn't true or has happen to other people. I have never been disabled but that shouldn't mean I can't empathies with someone was has.
The problem is people(mostly women) are acting on this empathy in a way that's destructive, and 9/10 people don't believe in this rhetoric, no matter how jubilee wants to spin it
Because you confuse something that could happen, with it being a problem. There is a one in a million chance a plane will fall out of the sky... that doesn't mean airlines/aircraft are a problem. Same with society.
This was stressful asl to watch 😂 I’m 16 and have better conversation and respectful cues than a lot of these adults, Arielle and Isabelle are so difficult and not because of their beliefs entirely but because of the lack of respect they have for their counterparts speaking.
I have to agree. I have different opinions on different subjects and I'm strong on those beliefs, but I do think it's important to truly listen and consider what someone is saying when they disagree with me because sometimes I've been enlightened in a certain way where I say to myself "Oh I never thought about it like that" and I could see what that person is trying to say. Listening to another person's point of view isn't admitting that you're wrong, it's showing respect and opening yourself up to the possibility that there is more than one way to view a certain subject. I'd rather be wrong than ignorant which is why when someone tells me I'm wrong, I ask them to explain why to try to educate myself as much as possible because they may have a point I didn't consider before or explore enough.
Well 90% of feminism is about empowering women to not need men. So most of the ideology goes directly against being a great housewife. Not rocket science
Why is it weird? I mean the average feminist would recoil at the thought of being a housewife. I believe feminism gives women the choice to do either but in modern practice that’s not how it seems to shake out.
Arielle just wanted to fight she wasn't there for a real conversation based on literally the first words out of her mouth and immediately trying to cut off their answer, absolutely not constructive and lost her points entirely because of it.
In Europe and USA we almost all have the same rights. Industrialists, royal families, politicians are the most privileged. Feminism and wokism are societal political games to divide the people.
i think we would be in a better society if we would stop to assume stuff about people just based on their skin colour. So if you enter a room and you feel uncomfortable just because the people in that room have a different skin colour...maybe that is kind of the problem. It does make sense to be most comfortable if we see persons similar to us in the room and i think we won't ever fully get rid of that. But we should try and stop putting all kind of assumptions onto it. So let's try and work on equal conditions but don't put people into skin colour boxes.
@@starryk79 I hear and respect that. But it's deeper than just skin color. For my grandmother and mother and myself. It's not the color, it's what the color has represented. There is apprehension that is justified and I think until we understand the " why's" and come to terms with these things without being dismissive or treating people experiences as trivial, this will continue.
I like Arielle, even though I disagree with her on a lot, but I think she came in obsessed with wanting to fight about trans issues and assume that any liberal has forgotten what a biological woman is
Mothers were grossly underrepresented in this conversation. I would love to see a feminist conversation between mothers. We have a lot to say about how society shapes motherhood and our experiences birthing and raising children in our current society.
yea, didn't understand how Jubilee made this panel and had only one mother on it. Definitely missed a beat there. Your perspective on many things in life change when you have children.
"You're just traumatized enough for me to understand" wow that really hit, I was never able to express why people accept some but not others, now wow-someone put it into words
@@dominicmicocodecoco Not really, it’s probably more saying that unless you’ve experienced it you can’t understand, however you can but you’re just not trying to.
I don't think Isabella would disagree with you. One woman's perspective saying she doesn't experience sexism is just as valid as one woman who says she does.
The model-esque white woman saying how she doesn’t care about being represented after another woman just complained about not seeing diverse women in ads was gold. 😂
My idea of feminism is choice. You have the choice to be a CEO; you have the choice of being a stay at home mom. You get to decide what you do, which is why I believe everyone should be a feminist. We all deserve the choice of what we want to do in life.
I think in a way, it also gives men more choices, as it breaks down a patriarchal structure, it opens up more options, such as stay at home dad, while being shunned less :]
You can be terrified of being pregnant almost every women I know who has had kids was terrified of being pregnant, but there is a big difference in being terrified of pregnancy and not actually wanting a child to begin with.
As a European, the statement that America is the ONLY place on Earth where you can work and achieve based on your merit is so funny to me. This sentence alone is the kind of arrogance Jill and Isabella are executing during the whole video
I hate this argument so much. I'm child of immigrants that came to America and who recognized the benefits of living in the US. But I also have family who moved to Canada and the UK who are equally successful. I know of many people who moved from the US to different countries in Africa and Asia and are also successful. Like the US has its moments but it also has a lot of shitty issues that impede success.
@@Faith12996 I think what she should have said was 1st world countries in general which ironically are the only countries where feminism is super strong
I think she meant that everyone has the ability to succeed when they come to America or if they’re in America. But idk lol. I’m an immigrant to the US and I’ve worked hard to get where I am and I think that’s kinda of what she meant 😅
If you listen _really_ closely to what either side was saying, the biggest source of disagreement for most prompts was the fact that they had differing definitions of "feminism" and other topics. A lot of their views aligned w/people on the other side, but it just didn't _sound_ like they did. A few of them came to this realization (at differing times) over the course of the discussion as well.
I hate seeing women claiming that they are anti-feminist, it's ok if you are not, but you can't even go to school and open a bank account without your husband if that feminist pioneer hadn't been risking their lives to fight for all the basic rights we have today.
EXACTLY! What needs to be done FIRST is an agreed upon definition of what we’re all discussing BEFORE we jump into it. How are going to have a productive conversation if we’re both speaking on completely different things?
@@annaliu7681 Those "anti-feminists" would agree with these initial waves of feminism but are alienated by the recent wave, which cant even define what a freaking woman is!
it makes me so sad that this discussion was so aggressive. we really need to learn to listen to each other more. society won’t be able to stand unless we go back to the centre and learn to speak to each other
After watching the full video, the prompt about whether or not only women should make decisions about their bodies falls comically flat. If all these people here were on a board to help make laws, nothing would pass. Ever.
And here I thought people used the word triggering as a way to make fun of overly sensitive types. Yet here we are and people are unironically using Triggering. It's funny
@@lennyjenkins9931 That's like saying why would you be affected by listening to a conversation you're not apart of. It's silly and unrealistic unless someone is a sociopath. Humans can and sometimes should be affected by anything at any time.
The anti feminists just want to argue 😭 they keep talking over the feminists. And someone said ads only has people with ethnicity… do you know what ethnicity means because we all have one…
The prompt "there is no wrong reason to get an abortion" is very interesting because, coming from India, female foeticide is a huge problem. Sex selective abortions are a thing. And I'm surprised they aren't addressing that.
You might want to watch this again. She asserts (hence dogma) there is no scientist who would agree with Male and Female no being a reality which is complete nonsense. She won’t accept any suggestion that many credible peer review studies contradict her (and she doesn’t countenance the idea that she is misinterpreting what she might have read). There are of course many instances of Intersex but that does not mean male and female don’t exist and that sex is a spectrum - they are simply other, albeit very rare, chromosomal arrangements.
@@lookatthis666 Yea the anti-feminists in this episode felt more aggressive than the male anti-feminists from last episode and it stunted the production of this conversation. It seemed like some of the male anti-feminists from last episode at least learned something valuable or was able to understand another perspective but these anti-feminists were too rigid in their beliefs. Like that first anti-feminist that spoke on the first topic immediately came in aggressive and obstinate with her "define a woman. go," demand and it was kind of rude and not productive to the conversation.
Jill and Arielle’s attitude instantly turned me away from them. While I disagree with their points, I would have felt more open to them if their attitudes were less hostile and if their attitudes implied they were open to listening.
@@vivminecl747 That's.... literally the point of why the video was produced, tho. Middle Ground is an online show where ppl on either side of an issue try to reach an understanding. One or more people refusing to Be Kind (Jubilee's catchphrase) during discussion means they're not doin it rite.
@@vivminecl747 It wasn’t the points, though. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs regardless on how I feel about them. My comment was more towards their handling of it in this video. Middle Ground is all about understanding each side. These two didn’t feel like that met that goal. They seemed hostile and that they didn’t want to hear others perspectives. If they did, especially Arielle, they went about it the wrong way.
@@avamacky2793I'm with you on they're tactics being overly aggressive, but to say that had no factual arguments, I mean come on bruh lol. It's OK to be wrong sometimes we can all learn from eachother, even progressives can calm it down a little lol
I love how Rikki handled herself when she was discussing her friend having to drive over state lines for an abortion. A few cutting in that the girl chose to have sex, etc. She shouldn’t have had to explain that her friend was a rape victim by any means. But she handled that conversation beautifully.
@@ex7229 whether that’s the case or not it shouldn’t matter. We can barely take care of the people on this planet already, why force women to continue to populate this planet, country, etc? Personally if I got pregnant tomorrow I’m keeping that baby, but who am I to strip that choice from anyone else?
I think the bigger problem here is both sides are being taught to despise the other. When they want the same thing but have different ideas of how to get there. This needed to be a much longer discussion imo.
I agree It’s so not true bc most older nollywood movies women were not modest at all but some of traditional attires can be modest and not all ..so yeah we was never modest😂
I loved Deja's engagement with the prompt's, she genuinely listened and gave thought provoking questions to the table that were glossed over more than I liked. The moderators should’ve told some cast members to stop interrupting all the time too.
As a mother of 2, I would never tell any woman she should be forced to experience it. It sucks at times and yes you do give up alot. If you don't want to give up what you have, don't have kids.
There are over 10 forms of birth control. So i agree if someone doesnt want to be a parent they should take precautions to not be. However abortion should not be one of the forms of birth control.
I have a child and I haven’t given up anything yet. To each her own kettle of fish. As long as it’s what you want, go for it. If you’re not sure about having children, use protection. Abortion is not a contraceptive.
she thinks everybody was always equal and just want to fight. because yeah i always saw people as people not their race or gender or etc. but not everyone had been especially men in power hundreds of years ago. they saw anyone different from them and hurt them (all wars and genocides) and those people have been put down for years. so thats why we fight so everyone can be seen as equal its what we want. ignoring all that past abuse and dehumanizing events is ignorant.
The amount of disrespect the exhibited towards one another was outrageous! They are all grown adults and wouldn’t allow one another to finish their thoughts. This was a very exhausting conversation to keep up because they weren’t even answering the prompts. They were going on their own dialogue
have u seen the male version of this? it’s even worse. constant cutting each other off and interrupting each other i feel that the women were a bit better in this aspect, not great but better compared to the men
She says that sex has never and it never will be a dichotomy. But whenever a skeleton is found and a study is done to it. The scientist will come up with 2 and only 2 answers.
Funny how they have to change the results of the sexuality of the skeleton because sometimes it's not even clear. And it's not a dichotomy, that's just a way to classify in a simple way.
Nike should really consider therapy the entire time she talked about her parent's failed marriage as a reason behind her beliefs shifting drastically decently points to quite a bit of trauma
Regardless of what she thought, if she were on the other side a lot of her talking points (just as the rest of the women on that other side) would've came from trauma... I mean, is sexism in action not sometimes traumatic for feminists?
Especially when talking about how her mother's strength emasculated her father, it seemed like she viewed the situation as zero-sum when it may not have been. Overall though, she made a lot of black-and-white comments, and I wish she used her past & upbringing to broaden her views instead of narrow them down.
Not Isabella questioning why Riki assumed majority of the domestic violence cases would be against men but in the previous prompt assuming she herself would get beat up by a trans woman 🤦🏽♀️
@Marina R There is a difference between: 1)the domestic violence phenomenon (which is not dominated by male perpetrators, both men and women are perpetrators, the numbers are very interesting) AND 2) the simple general fact of a strength advantage that men have over women. In general a trans woman will beat up a woman.
You can tell who is reading, doing research and having conversations versus who is going only off of their own bubble or repeating talking points they’ve heard. Because it’s your experience doesn’t mean that we should all live to the projections of that. It’s so invalidating of the complexities of humanity
ikr, the side that believes men can actually be women are literally in their own bubble its embarrassing. infact them believing that literally destroys every argument they could ever make
What you said could be said of either side. You weren't bold enough to say what you actually meant, so I assume you just wanted to post something everyone would agree with for the likes.
@@bogusmcbogus2637 idk seems like the lady going off about not being represented in dove commercials was 100% going down a nonsensical fox news rabbit hole and the women saying she wasnt aborted so abortion is wrong very much reflect this
did this conversation help you find empathy with the other side?
Fortnite
no
Edit- 1k likes for a single syllable? Jeez
No
Middleground ideas:
Male Feminists vs Female Antifeminists
Creationist Christians vs Evolutionist Christians
Pro-life democrats vs Pro-choice democrats
Pro-life republicans vs Pro-choice republicans
Pro-life democrats vs Pro-choice republicans
It helped me understand the other side.
As a woman, this discussion was exhausting.
Yes, like Isabella just didnt know how ignorant she is
@@anaiahevans1540 She wasn't ignorant what are you talking about?
@@anaiahevans1540 as a woman, Isabella spoke facts.
@@Lightguardian_HOH watch it again and see what i mean
Dont matter woman moment
It's incredible how everything and nothing was said at the same time.
😅😅😅🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
My thoughts exactly 😂😂😂
I don't think these types of videos are meant to reach a conclusion or any mutual agreement lol,
Everyone is just stating their opinion and moving on.
My thought to a T.
@@justina2320 It doesn’t really matter much if they agree with each other in the end, it’s the bit where everything was “what if’s” and no facts, crappy debate
this video really demonstrates how you could never win an argument against ignorant people lol
Yes modern feminists are very ignorant.
Completely
You can definitely win arguments against ignorant people, they usually stop responding or block you, I've had many feminists do that when they realise they have no chance against my big brain when all they bring are their incorrect regurgitated quotes. Let's look at these people, they're feminists so sure they're correct they'll go on a show and debate and what do they bring "they're a clump of cells", like how little debate have they ever done that they would STILL use that pathetic quote? Everyone is a clump of cells. That's the immediate thing everyone would say to that, you don't even need to be anti feminist to figure that out, yet they still say it, it's pathetic lol
Literally
@@Death-999 so we as human beings are equivalent to something which doesn’t even have the ability to form a thought are you vegan ? Have you ever walked on grass because essentially it’s the same thing a baby is completely different to a foetus if you don’t agree you haven’t been to school and if you have go back
The fact that one woman who asked to “define a woman.” Then went on a rant to how you can’t be a woman if there’s an ‘idea’ in your head that you are a woman and then said that she has a trans friend is crazy to me. Why is your friend a woman to you but other people aren’t?
Just because she's friends with one, doesn't mean that it's a real woman lmao
she's not wrapped to tight, and def ignorant
blaire white herself says she doesn't perceive herself as a woman
If you can't properly identify tiny what a woman is, and it's just and "idea" .. then what does it mean to fight for the rights of women?
@@Chreeves exactly to be a women means to have a uterus. End of discussion
Why do people think that you can't both be a feminist AND a stay at home mom? You can be both.
Because it's all about appeasing the male ego
@@barbymadison878 what is?
@Barby Madison No it isn't, that seems like something a woman would say if she's insecure about how others will look at her. Nike wants to be a housewife of her own choice or are you going to ignore and disregard a fellow woman's words when they don't match up with your idea of feminism? 🤔
Because a lot of feminist are hostile towards women who value traditional feminine roles
@@fearfullywonderfullymade691 when women are forced to be stay at home moms, then yeah, it is an issue. I am absolutely not traditional at all, but I CHOOSE to stay home with my son. It's where I'm happiest. But if I wanted to work outside of the home, that's what I would do. If I had a high paying job and my husband wanted to stay home, I'd support that. It's about equality and the freedom to choose in my family what we want to do. My husband doesn't rule the roost.
Every child deserves a parent but not every parent deserves a child, remember that.
yea, 100%, I often feel sad for the children (of future children) of some people I know
What a great saying
This should be apart of the foster care systems values
You become a parent the moment you conceive a child in your womb
We all remember because this saying is everywhere on youtube it’s annoying. On every video where a child is harmed / let down by the parents the top comment is always this exact quote.
I love how they kept accidentally circling back to the wrong topic every single time. I didn’t even know what was happening half the time.
The anti feminists somehow made every single prompt about trans women
@@meg-od2bo because we can’t even begin to talk about woman’s issues if we can’t first define what a woman is. Bottom line.
@@pricesymonej a woman’s an adult female
@@meg-od2bo I agree
@@meg-od2bo why yes, yes it is!
Isabella needs to stop being so obsessed about trans people, she keeps pulling them into every convo even though no one mentioned anything about them
she is so annoying bruh
she only spoke facts
@@zara-cm3kv your delusional
@@zara-cm3kv your delusional lol
Their response to trans ppl is prof why she should continue to bring it up.
I'm an Iranian woman. Contrary to Arielle's opinion, feminists did stand up for us! Iraninan feminists! Feminism is not limited to american/western people
Western feminists and western women generally, have spent 40 years silencing all support for Iranian women fighting religious oppression (under the false "Islamophobia). Only since last year, when men also became victims, did western women stand up.
And I'm not talking about pockets of support, such as among atheists, I'm talking about generalised support, like 1000s in the streets of Toronto. We can thank men for dying, because when it's only women dying, the world just don't care.
Yes!! I'm also an Iranian woman and was taken aback by that comment
They did so by cutting their hair for photo ops. Lol anyway that was embarrassing af
Exactly! As an Iranian girl living in Iran, I also have to add that since 1980, transgender individuals were officially recognized by the government! On top of that, they receive financial assistance being provided by the government for the sex reassignment surgery. The government also covers the cost of birth certificate and any other certificate change. I wish people like Arielle will learn to at least do a simple search before running their ignorant mouth.
You bit
isabella is the perfect example of believing that if it doesn’t affect her it doesn’t exist.
Nope plenty of people live without this nonsense. As they should. We should all be more like Isabella.
She’s so ignorant it was infuriating. She lives in a very thick bubble
@@Alan_the_Red guys are always trying to stick their nose in women’s business . Bye
Shes the only woman I respected during the whole conversation
When she said "I don't even think that I'm not being represented even in ads, I don't care" that's when I knew she had 0 regard for other people's feelings and views. And there's no way you can convince someone so inherently selfish otherwise.
when isabella said "i don't care!" and all the feminists were like "of course, you don't have to care" and she almost didn't get it ☠
It wasn't almost, it was she didn't get it entirely
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you saying she has white privilege?
@@Kitsunekone yeah and just the privilege of being an upper middle class woman in america
@@sea_of_love Gotcha.
@@sea_of_lovewhat’s white prívelage? Black privelage is breaking laws and being called victim
isabella throughout this WHOLE episode was very much “if i don’t see it and if it doesn’t negatively effect my life it’s not happening. it’s not a big deal” vibes and that was WILD especially coming from teen parents
exactly :/
REAL
I don't think she's saying or denying it's not happening, she just doesn't get pigeon-holed in all the labeling.
“Feminism is anything you want it to be” 22:33. This is the problem. People are fighting over a term that means something completely different to each individual.
Exactly, it has become an empty word, an excuse to avoid accountability and consequences
agreed
I believe the reason why this statement is so broad is mostly because feminism's definition is broad in itself. Feminism is the concept that men and women should be equal. At first, the fight was mostly about rights, but as our society evolved, it has become a fight for equal opportunities (especially career, society and safety opportunities) and lately we did devolve in human rights with roe v wade, so it's important to keep feminism alive and keep evolving, not devolving.
Absolutely. I find that a lot of disagreements come from differences in definitions. If you are going to have a serious conversation about a certain topic, you have to define the terms related to that topic, otherwise you can just go in circles all day.
I agree. A lot of the arguments were about things that most people fundamentally agree on, just with a lack of understanding. But generally, there are two ways I see it defined; an equality movement focused on correcting inequalities for women, and ideas generally held by people who are feminists. I believe the feminists viewed the word more as the former definition and the anti-feminists viewed the word as the latter.
when riki said “i shouldn’t have to tell you that story for you to understand that there are certain things that you have not experienced that oppress other people”🔥
"Patriarchy" as an oppressive and misogynistic system is a pure creation of late-sixties radical feminism. It does not exist as such and it is contradicted by evolutionary biology, history and anthropology, as long as one bases oneself on factual data and not on the deconstructivist ideology of gender studies. "Oppressive patriarchy" is a mystification that the following articles each explore in their own way.
It must be said and said again: the victim paradigm according to which the history of male/female relations is part of a vertical relationship of "male domination" is an intellectual imposture and an ideological construction resulting from the radical feminism of the end of the 1990s. sixties. Prior to the 1960s, the concept of "patriarchy" did not exist.
Than by that logic they can’t speak up for poor women who get pregnant
@@EdgarHernandez-uu4iw what logic is that exactly…
Brainwashed by feminism lmao you pro feminists are so wrong. 😂
@@EdgarHernandez-uu4iwwhat….
I've never felt the producers feel as uncomfortable as they were in this episode.
Fr
100%
you’re only saying that cuz your trans. lol they probably loved this.
they were probably more irritated than uncomfortable
yeah, i've never heard them have to tell a person to let the other one speak
I love the way Deja talks, she’s so well spoken.
She clearly has daddy issues
12:12 she did not just quote Marilyn Monroe on the patriarchy💀she was abused so much by men
yeah
Like BFFR😤😤
Poor Marilyn, she can never get a break.
Patriarchy only includes men ?
To tell you patriarchy doesn't exist
Ikrr
She ate her up w the “we heard a lot about your mother what about you” like yessss thank u
"Feminism means I can't be a housewife" is such a terminally online take.
You might think this is a hottake, but I literally know feminists who think housewife = slavery and the fact that women still want to do it, a sign that we havent ovethrown pateiarchy
That whole anti feminist side is terminally online. They didn’t even take to time to try and understand the other side either, they also thought that because they didn’t like the feminist, the feminist would dislike them as well which shows by how hostile they were.
@@an-meboth sides are terminally online. They both suck
"Not being feminist means you want women to be paid less"
She didn't say that at all. She said she got back-lash when wanting to be a house wife. I think misrepresenting what someone says is a terminally online take.
I noticed how Arielle almost agrees with the feminist a couple times, and then looks back to see if the Antifeminist agree, and then changes her mind if they don’t agree. Thats follower behavior in my opinion
Agree here
And it's funny because they are villanizing all feminists based on the actions of a few as if feminist are the followers as if we didn't start following this movement based on the ideals of the movement
And it's funny because they are villanizing all feminists based on the actions of a few as if feminist are the followers as if we didn't start following this movement based on the ideals of the movement and not a couple people's bad actions
Yes, but tbf, being a feminist is a follower ideology. Is it a coincidence that all these women believe the same thing? Did evolution evolve where the peak of womanhood is to believe in feminism? No. It's an ideology that has imposed itself and everyone is a follower. Which is perhaps for the best. We shouldn't have a society where every ignorant individual thinks they reached the truth.
I honestly don’t think they will ever be any middle ground in feminism and anti-feminism
I think there could be if reasonable people were invited, but that doesn't generate content and drama.
Look at all the Isabelle comments. She was only invited by production so we can rage in the comments.
Radical feminists who detest the devolution of modern feminism would beg to differ
What is middle ground? Majority of people in USA and Europe believe in equal rights. Feminism has changed significantly in the past 50 years
Feminists aren’t very smart same with black movement it’s the same thing it separates us more than brings people together it segregates and excludes people
Impossible to find middle ground when the topic is based in delusion
All of Nike's points were made out of her childhood trauma... Her problem isn't with feminism, it's with the parents that weren't there for her
literally, its all personal issues..
Exactly, it seemed like she should be talking to a therapist about this
rather than projecting her issues with her mom onto the entire movement.
I don’t see this at all
Exactly
@@Lemmeknowlemmeknow One example, she said in the video that she was very conflicted when it came to abortion because externally, her mother was very pro abortion/choice, but at the same time, she told her daughters that they should never get one
As an Iranian girl, what Arielle said wasn't true. Iranian men and women are standing for equality. But the dictatorial government is the issue
I interpeted her comment in a way like what are western feminists doing for Iranian fight for equality, but I may be wrong..
Either way, I really hope Iranian people win the fight and get their freedom back! Much love from Croatia!
She was talking about western feminist not supporting Iran.Although I'd still disagree with her because I did see a lot of western support unlike the case with french muslim women.
Correct.
@@LuciKaede They’re speaking up, talking about it, bringing light to the issues, and identifying the women who are actively fighting and have died doing so. What more can western women do? Physically go to Iran and beat up the government?
Feminists IN AMERICA don’t care
not enough people are talking about how incredibly well spoken Deja is
All her talking points give me teenager that just got into politics vibe
She's amazing ❤
Saying that "Men only protect us from bad men" is so fukin wild seeing that so many natural and freak disasters in my state happen so often
She's like a therapist
@@ArthurArtistry But she didn't say anything intelligent tho. Not much.
I'd love to see this conversation outside of America
As a German I’m on the Anti-Feminist side. The Feminist side is too obsessed with race.
living in spain, i think this conversation would be harder to have just because i think i've met ONE woman here who's an antifeminist and only because she's a conspiracy theorist that thinks, for example, that my brother is autistic because he had vaccines
I'd love to see a discussion between male feminists and female antifeminists. One hour of women telling men how men feel and men "defending" women. Pure entertainment for sure
@@matuuscx Most people in general wouldn’t describe themselves as feminists even if they believe men and women are equal
Or have feminists from other countries to see the differences between their culture
damn this episode was insane seeing how much the host had to moderate the conversation
Didn’t even let the conversation have a basis. How are you supposed to talk about women and feminism when nobody knows what a woman is?
@@wyattcole5452 One of the first things Arielle asked was to define woman
@@Bocqurant and nobody answered is my point, the mediator said focus on the topic when the topic isn’t secure to everyone, so how can they stay in topic when the definition of woman is up in the air?
@@wyattcole5452 she did not let people speak lol
@@yashicasaun the moderator? Yea, when that question was asked she didn’t let People speak unless it was about what she said
Arielle wasn't there to debate she was there to talk AT people. She sat down, instantly asked a question that was nonsensical to the discussion at hand and then proceeded to interupt everyone every chance she got.
Literally!!!
She must have a hard time dealing with snowflakes.
💯💯💯I literally am 2 minutes in and I ran to the comments because she already aggravated me!!! She IMMEDIATELY came in aggressive for no reason! Tryna argue not debate. Smh
@@DaniDeFazio-jf5fzEXACTLY
2020 called they want their slang back . goofy ah@@boobare5792
The way I went HUH for 99 % of what the “antifeminists” said like it’s actually INSANE
“Tell me ur 14, without telling me ur 14”
@@Max4Ztell me you’re a Republican, without telling me you’re a Republican
@@Max4Ztell me you're a male without telling me you're a male
@@Max4ZI was browsing the comments and saw you here from 2 months ago to 3 weeks ago maybe more, you came back to this video purely to argue with a wall about something you are clearly unknowledgeable about lol. Please go back to watching something you want like goku clips to save everyone’s time, including yours.
@@User.777.1 you and astral are literal Misandrists and Femcels lmao
As a middle eastern woman, Arielle bringing up the Iran issue made my soul shrivel. No feminists are speaking up about the issue in Iran? Does she think the Irani women there actively fighting against their government are anti feminist? The phrase Zan, Zendegi, Azadi literally translates to "women, life, freedom" and she claims its not a feminist issue?
IK Airelle got on time nerves every time she spoke especially with that Iran issue
@@andsoitbegins_there’s many trans women you would never assume are transgender. If they’re going through the word looking like women they’ll be treated like women. Do you think people only discriminate against women at birth???
Nobody cares
Arielle is a hard pill to swallow but I think that the point is valid in the sense that many feminists in places like the States don't care about issues facing women in places like Iran that are definitely more hostile toward them. There are certainly feminists in Iran taking care of business.
Deflect deflect deflect that's all they do when it comes to racism.
I’d love to see male feminist VS female anti feminist
they already did this, it’s on their page
@@rubyfransen2522
No they didn't. The one they did was males on both sides.
But that’s a bit silly, the female anti feminist will just use the same “argument” over and over again; “you’re not a woman, I am”
@@yontonmonponperfect summation
@@yontonmonpon No. That is what radical feminists use
Why do Americans think that it’s “the only place ON EARTH” where you can achieve your goals ?!?? Seriously that statement made me think Jill was delusional
Seriously. Exactly what the US teaches Americans. It’s so bizarre.
the delusion of American exceptionalism.
I was surprised that this sentence wasn’t challenged by anyone because it’s so ignorant and problematic on so many levels.
30:10
She was they use it to not accept that we deserve better conditions that allow people to thrive and it’s all on you which fine but it’s egotistical and not the best for humanity ❤😂
i love deja and riki sooo much their points are so strong and they came so prepared (also deja’s facial expressions are so funny😭😭)
ISABELLA IS SO RIDICULOUS HAHAHA. shes like “well if i was never affected by it, it never existed”
major mean girl vibe. and guess who mean girls appease and bully?
@@justicedoesntexist1919 you think she's mean? try knowing that 2+2=4, but we live in a "truth" where 2+2= anything but 4, and if you try to claim that 2+2 = 4, you're gonna be in trouble.
The opposite of that is also true. There are those on the feminist side that say, because it happened to me, it’s all that exist and they apply their blanket to it.
@@misanthrophexsrry but i don’t get it 😭
Found the future cat owner 😂
JUBILEE: PLEASE TRY THIS. INSTEAD OF HAVING THEM STAND NEXT TO EACHOTHER IN THE OPEN WHEN ASKED THE QUESTION. DO SOMETHING WHERE IT BLOCKS THEM FROM SEEING EACHOTHER UNTIL THEY GET TO THE CHAIRS!
I feel like sometimes they see the other(s) walk up so they join them. I also notice they look at their neighbor as well. Would be cool to see what they really really think. I feel like seeing others stay or go psychologically changes something even if just very small.
Just a suggestion but I think would be a great touch. Thanks!
Agreed, people are too influenced by seeing what the others do and are too afraid to stick out.
YES!!! I’ve thought this for so long.
I think they should do away with the labels all together and just ask people questions and let them answer
true like let them carry blind folds or write down if they agree or disagree
I think they may have answered a questionnaire in advance and they are just trying to remember what the wrote.
I miss when they would have everyone go in a circle and introduce themselves, it’s nice to know a little about the group members beforehand
they probs do it off camera now
@@mars2366 we did not
@@reberrabon_bon That's a shame, but since Jill is the host of PragerU Kids and therefore a hardcore rightist ideologue, it might be for the best.
this probably sways peoples opinions when interacting with each other in the circle as what you do doesnt really matter, its about your opinions
1) It sways other peoples opinion when interacting with each-other and the audience's opinions
2) Takes up time and isn't relevant
3) People's personal lives can be used as a cudgel against them in the conversation
Isabella: white women privilege, if I don’t experience it, it doesn’t exist
Nike: mommy issues
Arielle: just wants beef
Jill: white women privilege pt 2
Trans women aren’t real women
The feminists: daddy issues, deep rooted hatred towards men
lool, perfect
AHAhh yesssss this omg
FR!
Feminism, in my opinion, doesn’t mean you have to be a CEO or you shouldn’t be a stay at home mom. It means you should have the option to be either or. Discussions like this are important to have to better understand others’ mindsets. Great episode👍🏽
you do have that option. and have had it for over 20 years now.
@@barbrothers2 I know that but obviously some of the women in the video thought otherwise. And is not just that. What about abortion? Why don’t people just mind their business and focus on themselves?
Ideally, but that’s not always the narrative. [>
But that is NOT what feminists say. And FEMINISTS DO talk down to women without traditional “burn the candle at both ends” jobs
@@russ7009 Are you saying we should aim for equity rather than equality?
Isabella is a clear example of the "it doesn't exists because it hasn't happened to me" mentality.
exactly
Just like when feminists try to prove "oppression" by "well, it once happened to me that ...."
EXACTLY, her privilege is so unsettling to see
that's just a classic example of internally referenced person vs externally referenced person.
I can't, she exudes privilege with every word she speaks
jubilee was FOUL for cutting off that amazing point; "if they don't have enough money to go get an abortion, what makes you think they'll have enough money to raise the kid." or smthg like that. that is an excellent point that i want answered by the other side.
Then don’t be having sex. You run the risk
@@americasass3674 thats not exactly an option if someone is forced to...
@@bingusdingus8239 The vast majority of cases aren’t due to rape
@@EdmundoAyarzagoitia well it doesn't really matter because those people are out of luck in certain states now
@@americasass3674 wow i wish that’s what the women who are r/ped against their will though of, thanks!
I love Deja, I feel like she was incredible well spoken and respectful
Nike didn't really come off as strongly settled in her opinions. I honestly got the feeling from almost every single prompt that she was hit hard by her mother's illness whom she idolized but also resented for staying with her father.
she defended incels at one point
@@CoochSmooch incels share a hatred towards (progressive) woman... theyre entitled sexist loosers... if theyre fundamentally broken then its bc theyre miserable ppl...
Nike used to be a feminist remember? That’s probably why she wasn’t so unwilling to be wrong and open to the other side.
she was projecting
i agree. i felt a bit bad for her. it seems like her negative experiences w her family are getting to her esp now that she’s at an age where she wants a family of her own. i wish her luck
Nike sounds like she's centered most of her ideas of antifeminism around her mother. A lot of the hypocrisy she pointed out went back to examples of her mother. She expressed her feelings of feeling neglected because her mother didn't have time to fit into her traditional role of motherhood as she was too busy fighting for the movement. It's nice how everyone would let her divert so much because it sounded like she was venting... 👀
Edit: This is just pointing out Nike... But most if not all of the anti-feminists have their views mainly centered around 'I' and 'self' which is why it might be hard to for them to hear the other side 😂 the lady said it so beautifully at the beginning of the video... It's literally about everyone being allowed to choose what's going to work for them. If traditional roles are for you,, that's perfect. If not, great too! You are making choices that affect your life. Just live it responsibility 🤷♀️
She centered it around her greatest influence of feminism
I think Nike had an aversion to the label of feminism, but if she saw feminism as the push for economic, social, and personal equality, regardless of sex, gender, race, etc, she wouldn't have been so opposed to it.
Also when she high fived jill after she said "i rarely see women on social media who are not an ethnicity", despite preaching against cultural ignorance was almost upsetting because nobody even mentioned that everyone is an ethnicity.
are you fr?🤡
It's hilarious u bring this up when the feminists exhibit so much narcissism 😂🤡
NO SHADE BUT ACTUALLY YOU’RE NOT WRONG. It seems like she wants to be the complete opposite of who her mother was bc of her personal issues.
The fact that Arielle said that the friend of Riki that she shouldn’t have “spread her legs” to not get pregnant, the fact that Riki had to say that her friend was r*ped was a bombshell, Arielle should’ve thought a bit longer before making those comments
when was this in the video? i cant find it :((((
@@camoply 31:25
Why is it a "bombshell"? If you consented to sèx, it's perfectly reasonable to say you need to take responsibility for the resulting pregnancy. It's an entirely different scenario in case of assault
@Ah_Be That's Where we disagree. The innocent child shouldn't have to pay with its life for your choice to have sèx
Weird that she had to bring up her transwoman friend to garner sympathy and then demeaning someone else's friend story lol
The white woman who said she doesn't care about representation. 🤦🏻♀️ 🤢
Trans women aren’t real women
I'm brown. Literally who cares. It isn't important.
One of my biggest pet peeves is getting interrupted and not being able to finish what I was saying. I would have lost it in every one of them.
😂🤣
yes!! it's extremely disrespectful and if I was there they would've been yelled at because you need to let me FINISH my point before starting yours. You'd think adults could have healthy discourse but no, everytime there's confrontation and disagreements certain people become gradeschool kids again
YES!
@@monikamalinowski true
Agreed!!! 💯
As a teen girl this was horrible to witness.
How horrible, I'm so sad you have to be a female. It must be so awful. lmao
as a teen girl, this was helpful and it helped me learn a lot more that my parents and school thought me
@@andjelamisic3070 What exactly did it teach you?
A discussion?
@@HughMungousPC It taught me a lot, actually, I wanna call myself a feminist and it helps educate me on certain topics like the inherently racist one... i live in a very sheltered home, and i didn't realize some of these thing
Arielle making every single prompt a trans issue and not allowing anyone to speak really shows why she was there..
Even after we were done she just would NOT stop
Fr
But it has to be taken that side. Trans is the next female
No riki was not allowing anyone to speak. And she kept speaking and was so wrong about so many things
Edit: who is here after Olympics banned transgenders from competitions in female track?
Feminists are loud, masculine and annoying. Gotta speak over them to get a point across. Being judged for being white will cause you to speak louder and more. Just like I would expect if I judged a black person for being black.
I hate how a lot of their conversations were about America and the American experience, when feminism isn't just about American women. Feminism is fighting for the rights of women around the world, and those who only point out issues in America are incredibly privileged.
I found it so sad that people like Isabella can't understand that just because something hasn't happen to her or she doesn't "see" or never thought about it, doesn't mean that thing isn't true or has happen to other people. I have never been disabled but that shouldn't mean I can't empathies with someone was has.
Someone sympathetic to feminism lecturing about a lack of empathy...that's rich.
Isabella's in la la land, as expected from someone who gives off major flat-earther vibes.
The problem is people(mostly women) are acting on this empathy in a way that's destructive, and 9/10 people don't believe in this rhetoric, no matter how jubilee wants to spin it
I thought it was just me. She is so entitled
Because you confuse something that could happen, with it being a problem. There is a one in a million chance a plane will fall out of the sky... that doesn't mean airlines/aircraft are a problem. Same with society.
This was stressful asl to watch 😂 I’m 16 and have better conversation and respectful cues than a lot of these adults, Arielle and Isabelle are so difficult and not because of their beliefs entirely but because of the lack of respect they have for their counterparts speaking.
Agreed! I made a reaction video, but it was tough because they didn’t say much of anything here.
I have to agree. I have different opinions on different subjects and I'm strong on those beliefs, but I do think it's important to truly listen and consider what someone is saying when they disagree with me because sometimes I've been enlightened in a certain way where I say to myself "Oh I never thought about it like that" and I could see what that person is trying to say. Listening to another person's point of view isn't admitting that you're wrong, it's showing respect and opening yourself up to the possibility that there is more than one way to view a certain subject. I'd rather be wrong than ignorant which is why when someone tells me I'm wrong, I ask them to explain why to try to educate myself as much as possible because they may have a point I didn't consider before or explore enough.
Bruh I am 15
It's a different story when you're up there.
Same lol
It’s so weird how the anti-feminists are mentioning that you can’t be feminist and be a housewife at the same time 😭
Well 90% of feminism is about empowering women to not need men. So most of the ideology goes directly against being a great housewife. Not rocket science
Why is it weird? I mean the average feminist would recoil at the thought of being a housewife. I believe feminism gives women the choice to do either but in modern practice that’s not how it seems to shake out.
@@TheDeeman25 i do know a lot of feminists who like the idea
@@TheDeeman25 nah, the average true feminist would wanna let women do what they choose, even if they choose to be a stay at home mother or housewife
@@katmoonshine145 I doubt you say the truth on that.
Arielle just wanted to fight she wasn't there for a real conversation based on literally the first words out of her mouth and immediately trying to cut off their answer, absolutely not constructive and lost her points entirely because of it.
She agreed with them on abortion lol
@@Max4Zshe is a TERF which is a feminist, but refuses that label because she grifts for conservatives. She is the definition of confrontational
that girl really just interrupted their conversation on race to basically say “I don’t care, it doesn’t affect me so let’s stop talking about it”
In Europe and USA we almost all have the same rights. Industrialists, royal families, politicians are the most privileged.
Feminism and wokism are societal political games to divide the people.
I am black and I don't care. Identity politics is toxic.
@blafgirl it doesn't matter until it does.
i think we would be in a better society if we would stop to assume stuff about people just based on their skin colour. So if you enter a room and you feel uncomfortable just because the people in that room have a different skin colour...maybe that is kind of the problem. It does make sense to be most comfortable if we see persons similar to us in the room and i think we won't ever fully get rid of that. But we should try and stop putting all kind of assumptions onto it. So let's try and work on equal conditions but don't put people into skin colour boxes.
@@starryk79 I hear and respect that. But it's deeper than just skin color. For my grandmother and mother and myself. It's not the color, it's what the color has represented. There is apprehension that is justified and I think until we understand the " why's" and come to terms with these things without being dismissive or treating people experiences as trivial, this will continue.
I never felt unequal and therefore there is no inequality has to be the funniest take I've ever heard
She solved inequality of all kinds
Arielle is a type of person to debate people who’s on her side
😂😂😂😭
Arielle just came outta nowhere packin balls to the walls
and there's nothing wrong with that :D
I like Arielle, even though I disagree with her on a lot, but I think she came in obsessed with wanting to fight about trans issues and assume that any liberal has forgotten what a biological woman is
@@AverageGamerNub-qf6spmy jaw dropped when she started talking
Isabella was insufferable.
She gives off Pearl energy
REAL
Says the girl that was weak enough to get a nose job
Mothers were grossly underrepresented in this conversation. I would love to see a feminist conversation between mothers. We have a lot to say about how society shapes motherhood and our experiences birthing and raising children in our current society.
I agree. I'm not a mother but I do want to hear this conversation from a mother's perspective.
I volunteer 🙋🏻♀️
Absolutely I agree 💯
yea, didn't understand how Jubilee made this panel and had only one mother on it. Definitely missed a beat there. Your perspective on many things in life change when you have children.
Or fathers ;) Mothers can be fathers nowadays.
"You're just traumatized enough for me to understand" wow that really hit, I was never able to express why people accept some but not others, now wow-someone put it into words
What does that mean exactly?
Trauma is like a Harvard graduation certificate now
@@dominicmicocodecoco Not really, it’s probably more saying that unless you’ve experienced it you can’t understand, however you can but you’re just not trying to.
@@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis understand what? Elaborate pls
@@dominicmicocodecoco understand how someone can feel
"we heard a lot about ur mom, but what about u?" QUEEN SPITS FIRE. and how i love how deja articulate her point!!!
i laughed at loud during this
Timestamp?
@@VaaleeLol 38:10
Really sums up what women indebted in patriarchy seems like 😭
My brain hurts just by trying to understand anti-feminists points of view
Isabella- just because it doesn’t happen to you, doesn’t mean it does not exist
I cringed every time she spoke
☕️cope
I don't think Isabella would disagree with you. One woman's perspective saying she doesn't experience sexism is just as valid as one woman who says she does.
Then in that case sexism exists. They don’t cancel each other out
@@MrKenneththeking11yea it does
The model-esque white woman saying how she doesn’t care about being represented after another woman just complained about not seeing diverse women in ads was gold. 😂
Exactly! So clueless
Literally! Like she is not the one being underrepresented of course she wouldn't care 🤣
@@phoebescott6787 🤣🤣 There’s way more then enough diversity in ads.
@@phoebescott6787 anyone with real life problems wouldn't care. caring about such silly things screams first world problems.
yall probably look like Shrek with this mindset
My idea of feminism is choice. You have the choice to be a CEO; you have the choice of being a stay at home mom. You get to decide what you do, which is why I believe everyone should be a feminist. We all deserve the choice of what we want to do in life.
Don’t guys have that choice too?
@@sarahnewton2550 yes. Everyone deserves the choice, no matter their race, gender, or any of that.
I think in a way, it also gives men more choices, as it breaks down a patriarchal structure, it opens up more options, such as stay at home dad, while being shunned less :]
@@benjamincharlton1388true and not to feel bad about his choice.
@@sarahnewton2550how the one blamed her mother for tearing down and emasculating her father.
The fact that there was a cut here 34:10 you just KNOW something went down!🤣🤣🤣
You can be terrified of being pregnant almost every women I know who has had kids was terrified of being pregnant, but there is a big difference in being terrified of pregnancy and not actually wanting a child to begin with.
Don't have sex if you don't want a child.
@@shxn1xo370 still the stupidest argument in anti abortion history
@@shxn1xo370 the sole purpose of sex isn't to reproduce, you bird
@@shxn1xo370 Forced birth shouldnt be a punishment for making a mistake lmao
What is a woman?
As a European, the statement that America is the ONLY place on Earth where you can work and achieve based on your merit is so funny to me. This sentence alone is the kind of arrogance Jill and Isabella are executing during the whole video
I hate this argument so much. I'm child of immigrants that came to America and who recognized the benefits of living in the US. But I also have family who moved to Canada and the UK who are equally successful. I know of many people who moved from the US to different countries in Africa and Asia and are also successful. Like the US has its moments but it also has a lot of shitty issues that impede success.
@@Faith12996 I think what she should have said was 1st world countries in general which ironically are the only countries where feminism is super strong
Agree
My thoughts exactly tell that to all the homeless people or kids living and growing up in poverty.
I think she meant that everyone has the ability to succeed when they come to America or if they’re in America. But idk lol. I’m an immigrant to the US and I’ve worked hard to get where I am and I think that’s kinda of what she meant 😅
If you listen _really_ closely to what either side was saying, the biggest source of disagreement for most prompts was the fact that they had differing definitions of "feminism" and other topics. A lot of their views aligned w/people on the other side, but it just didn't _sound_ like they did. A few of them came to this realization (at differing times) over the course of the discussion as well.
Exactly! I saw this too. Especially with Nike from 40:00 onwards. She really came around in the end.
Women are not that well represented in the front lines of Ukraine (^_^)
Most Ukrainian Women are in European countries away from the frontlines (^_^)
I hate seeing women claiming that they are anti-feminist, it's ok if you are not, but you can't even go to school and open a bank account without your husband if that feminist pioneer hadn't been risking their lives to fight for all the basic rights we have today.
EXACTLY! What needs to be done FIRST is an agreed upon definition of what we’re all discussing BEFORE we jump into it. How are going to have a productive conversation if we’re both speaking on completely different things?
@@annaliu7681
Those "anti-feminists" would agree with these initial waves of feminism but are alienated by the recent wave, which cant even define what a freaking woman is!
isabella and Donovan are made for each other, if you know what I mean.
it makes me so sad that this discussion was so aggressive. we really need to learn to listen to each other more. society won’t be able to stand unless we go back to the centre and learn to speak to each other
I've seen this politely done too and it's more cringe. Sometimes we have to let people get out how they really feel.
After watching the full video, the prompt about whether or not only women should make decisions about their bodies falls comically flat. If all these people here were on a board to help make laws, nothing would pass. Ever.
@@narlywaves2371 and let's be honest, it's always a bit more entertaining when there's a bit of drama lol
It makes me sad that the gobbledygook the feminists (more like pseudo-feminists) were crapping out is actually considered valid.
it was only arielle who was aggressive and angry lol i felt she was gonna fight them
I was very surprised at how triggering and frustrating this conversation was for me. I mean both sides were driving me crazy at times.
And here I thought people used the word triggering as a way to make fun of overly sensitive types. Yet here we are and people are unironically using Triggering. It's funny
@@lennyjenkins9931 Everyone except sociopaths is sensitive about something.
@@filmgirlLisa
You can definitely be sensitive about something but getting your booty tickled by something you see online is hilarious.
@@lennyjenkins9931 That's like saying why would you be affected by listening to a conversation you're not apart of. It's silly and unrealistic unless someone is a sociopath. Humans can and sometimes should be affected by anything at any time.
@@filmgirlLisa just control yourself
Arielle literally said "i do not care what people say" The whole purpose of this is for these to groups to communicate
She communicated that point very well, didn't she
As a woman even when i debated with feminists they called me sexists.
What is wrong with this world goodness!!!
@@amandapayet1421 alot of people are pussies apparently 🤣
@@amandapayet1421 what’s wrong with these anti feminists? Are they no longer women?
@@amandapayet1421? You can still be sexist no matter your gender lol
The anti feminists just want to argue 😭 they keep talking over the feminists. And someone said ads only has people with ethnicity… do you know what ethnicity means because we all have one…
"You know, they (straight white males) don't want to leave their apartment or their house because they're so afraid of women." BFFR 💀
@silentsolitude6570cry me a river
I'm white and i'm not scared of humans :) i'm scared of rats.
@Silent Solitude
Why?
@@hannahpoole6215 How empathetic and tolerant of you.
But there genuinely are you’ll go on about Isabella being ignorant but that is also just ignorance
"we need to stay on topic with the prompt"
I've never heard them say that phrase so many times before on this series
Cause they can’t stay in topic at all 😭😭
Did they say that to one side more?
@@biggy_fishy I'm not sure. Do you think that?
The prompt "there is no wrong reason to get an abortion" is very interesting because, coming from India, female foeticide is a huge problem. Sex selective abortions are a thing. And I'm surprised they aren't addressing that.
I was thinking about this too
but then the thing is in that case its not the mother deciding to get an abortion most of the times. its the men in house forcing her to get one.
Riki is so eloquent and calm, she was literally so calm throughout and never went for personal attacks
Dogma is still dogma even when it is articulately expressed
@@satisfiedatheist8762 she didn't have any extreme dogma unlike the antis, and like I said she didn't come for anybody
You might want to watch this again. She asserts (hence dogma) there is no scientist who would agree with Male and Female no being a reality which is complete nonsense. She won’t accept any suggestion that many credible peer review studies contradict her (and she doesn’t countenance the idea that she is misinterpreting what she might have read). There are of course many instances of Intersex but that does not mean male and female don’t exist and that sex is a spectrum - they are simply other, albeit very rare, chromosomal arrangements.
@@satisfiedatheist8762 give me timestamp
Around 39 mins I think
It’s a shame that this conversation was not as respectful and open as other in episodes
wait till you see the vice one lol
Somehow the men’s episode on this was much more productive than this one…
@@lookatthis666 Yea the anti-feminists in this episode felt more aggressive than the male anti-feminists from last episode and it stunted the production of this conversation. It seemed like some of the male anti-feminists from last episode at least learned something valuable or was able to understand another perspective but these anti-feminists were too rigid in their beliefs. Like that first anti-feminist that spoke on the first topic immediately came in aggressive and obstinate with her "define a woman. go," demand and it was kind of rude and not productive to the conversation.
@@mish2637 I agree. Arielle hates trans people way too much
@@mish2637 probably bc the male anti feminist were scared of being called sexist
I think if i was in this group I'd cry... just because how frustrating it is!!
Tell me why I was thinking the same thing 😂😂😂
fr or i would throw a chair
such a cry baby...boohooo
Glad no one was subjected to that
Fr how is there “no wrong reason for abortion” these mfs need to learn what sex selective abortion is and explain how it isn’t wrong
Arielle's position of "I'm a lesbian and I have a trans friend" to get away with her transphobic comments is so disgusting
Jill and Arielle’s attitude instantly turned me away from them. While I disagree with their points, I would have felt more open to them if their attitudes were less hostile and if their attitudes implied they were open to listening.
It doesn't help that in Jill's case, she is the host of PragerU Kids and therefore a hardcore rightist.
Saaaaame
It's not about how you feel it's about the points being made
@@vivminecl747 That's.... literally the point of why the video was produced, tho. Middle Ground is an online show where ppl on either side of an issue try to reach an understanding. One or more people refusing to Be Kind (Jubilee's catchphrase) during discussion means they're not doin it rite.
@@vivminecl747 It wasn’t the points, though. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs regardless on how I feel about them. My comment was more towards their handling of it in this video. Middle Ground is all about understanding each side. These two didn’t feel like that met that goal. They seemed hostile and that they didn’t want to hear others perspectives. If they did, especially Arielle, they went about it the wrong way.
I honestly feel like Arielle and Isabella made this discussion so hostile when it didn't have to be.
They did…like they really felt the need to say how everything and everyone was wrong like they did NOT come here for “middle ground”
Arielle was speaking the most facts, though
It was needed.
@@avamacky2793I'm with you on they're tactics being overly aggressive, but to say that had no factual arguments, I mean come on bruh lol. It's OK to be wrong sometimes we can all learn from eachother, even progressives can calm it down a little lol
@@nasien ur a male. Sit this one out. Ur opinion isnt valid
I love how Rikki handled herself when she was discussing her friend having to drive over state lines for an abortion. A few cutting in that the girl chose to have sex, etc. She shouldn’t have had to explain that her friend was a rape victim by any means. But she handled that conversation beautifully.
Disgusting.
Rikki wasn't the smartest in the group .
An exception not the rule. 99% of abortions are not rape incest or abuse.
@@amandapayet1421 no one was saying she was. You're judging a stranger's intelligence based on one video? Okay...
@@ex7229 whether that’s the case or not it shouldn’t matter. We can barely take care of the people on this planet already, why force women to continue to populate this planet, country, etc? Personally if I got pregnant tomorrow I’m keeping that baby, but who am I to strip that choice from anyone else?
I think the bigger problem here is both sides are being taught to despise the other. When they want the same thing but have different ideas of how to get there. This needed to be a much longer discussion imo.
its sad how the statement "its rational for women to fear men" is the one where almost all of them agreed
Common women L
@@basedblackbeard4456 can you explain as to why ?
It’s rational for everyone to fear everyone
@@basedblackbeard4456 nobody asked
Progressive vs conservative, women vs men, atheist vs religious, black vs white, pro vs anti . The globalists games to divide us.
"I have never even felt unequal! So I don't even know what the problem is!"💀
She is so in her own privileged world it's sickening
well yeah most people make themselves out to be a victim they don't see what is really going on
@@SmokeyDaBoss420or you mean there’s ppl that don’t go through these life experiences so they’re blind to it.
@@naomimosby5575 i agree, its atrocious that only men have to sign up for the draft. Women can fight too!
@@razikboston3414 frfr
I'm a Nigerian woman living in Nigeria and Nike saying Nigerian women dress conservatively and with layers is the most amusing part of this video.
I agree It’s so not true bc most older nollywood movies women were not modest at all but some of traditional attires can be modest and not all ..so yeah we was never modest😂
Our modern youth don't, they're adopting modern American values, if you don't mind me asking, what part of Nigeria did you grow up?
@@iloathepeoplewhorestilltal2774 I was born and grew up in Lagos
Omg this 😂😂😂 most Nigerian women AREN’T conservative
abi mehn she can lie
Loved Deja in this episode!!
I loved Deja's engagement with the prompt's, she genuinely listened and gave thought provoking questions to the table that were glossed over more than I liked. The moderators should’ve told some cast members to stop interrupting all the time too.
Deja was the most annoying of all. Just pure ideology spewing constantly
Agreed
Same here.
passive paggressive patronising voice
You can see Deja is rude by her facial expression she just afraid to talk
As a mother of 2, I would never tell any woman she should be forced to experience it. It sucks at times and yes you do give up alot. If you don't want to give up what you have, don't have kids.
Choices have impacts. Not my problem.
@@DrGingerHamster exactly, not your problem james, so stay out of the conversation lmao.
@@nanaa428 lmaoo soo true 😌
There are over 10 forms of birth control. So i agree if someone doesnt want to be a parent they should take precautions to not be. However abortion should not be one of the forms of birth control.
I have a child and I haven’t given up anything yet. To each her own kettle of fish. As long as it’s what you want, go for it. If you’re not sure about having children, use protection. Abortion is not a contraceptive.
Isabella is so blinded by her own experience that she refuses to sympathize with people who actually face issues due to their identity
Shes proving a point and i think she knows how to get into ur head and take advantage.
This comment needs to elaborate more on what it's trying to say.
She don't have to. The problem is the expectation to do so.
Nobody is obligated to fit the mold of expectations set by others 😪
she thinks everybody was always equal and just want to fight. because yeah i always saw people as people not their race or gender or etc. but not everyone had been especially men in power hundreds of years ago. they saw anyone different from them and hurt them (all wars and genocides) and those people have been put down for years. so thats why we fight so everyone can be seen as equal its what we want. ignoring all that past abuse and dehumanizing events is ignorant.
That happened on the other side as well--especially when Jill was speaking about how she felt when pregnant.
Deja and I had the same expression all the time, specially when Isabella was speaking
isabella has to be a paid actress to make this more interesting cuz aint no way she actually believes the things that leaves her mouth
The amount of disrespect the exhibited towards one another was outrageous! They are all grown adults and wouldn’t allow one another to finish their thoughts. This was a very exhausting conversation to keep up because they weren’t even answering the prompts. They were going on their own dialogue
women are emotinal beings🤷♀
Usually when men have conversations like this they’re always civil
have u seen the male version of this? it’s even worse. constant cutting each other off and interrupting each other i feel that the women were a bit better in this aspect, not great but better compared to the men
@@elyy3493 source? Jordon Peterson's and trad pseudoscience?
@@elyy3493 women are emotional or was the topic emotional? you choose.
She says that sex has never and it never will be a dichotomy. But whenever a skeleton is found and a study is done to it. The scientist will come up with 2 and only 2 answers.
Funny how they have to change the results of the sexuality of the skeleton because sometimes it's not even clear.
And it's not a dichotomy, that's just a way to classify in a simple way.
Nike should really consider therapy the entire time she talked about her parent's failed marriage as a reason behind her beliefs shifting drastically decently points to quite a bit of trauma
Regardless of what she thought, if she were on the other side a lot of her talking points (just as the rest of the women on that other side) would've came from trauma... I mean, is sexism in action not sometimes traumatic for feminists?
They are still happily married. 45 years. :)
@@ItsNikenotnike You should still consider therapy
Especially when talking about how her mother's strength emasculated her father, it seemed like she viewed the situation as zero-sum when it may not have been. Overall though, she made a lot of black-and-white comments, and I wish she used her past & upbringing to broaden her views instead of narrow them down.
I have always been and I have a degree in psychology
I could listen to Deja articulate her thoughts allllll day. Her demeanor is almost ASMR and soothes my brain throughout this whole thing
I think as time goes on her total view will change. She speaks like a college person.
@@khodges2 a college person....so educated? is that something that should be shunned?
I found her unbearable. Just a stream of mannered, university doublespeak
yeah but shes a politician in training. too rehearsed.
@@avam7939like a hive mind.
Not Isabella questioning why Riki assumed majority of the domestic violence cases would be against men but in the previous prompt assuming she herself would get beat up by a trans woman 🤦🏽♀️
That's not assuming a transwomen will beat a womenz that's a reality
You probably haven't seen how violent tras can get.
@Marina R
There is a difference between:
1)the domestic violence phenomenon (which is not dominated by male perpetrators, both men and women are perpetrators, the numbers are very interesting)
AND
2) the simple general fact of a strength advantage that men have over women.
In general a trans woman will beat up a woman.
I mean..... Trans women are still physically stronget
@@mmor7380 so? A biological woman could beat up another woman. What’s ur point
this is so unrelated to the video but omg Deja is actually so gorgeous and so well spoken I literally couldn't take my eyes off of her the whole time
You can tell who is reading, doing research and having conversations versus who is going only off of their own bubble or repeating talking points they’ve heard. Because it’s your experience doesn’t mean that we should all live to the projections of that. It’s so invalidating of the complexities of humanity
ikr, the side that believes men can actually be women are literally in their own bubble its embarrassing. infact them believing that literally destroys every argument they could ever make
What you said could be said of either side. You weren't bold enough to say what you actually meant, so I assume you just wanted to post something everyone would agree with for the likes.
@@bogusmcbogus2637 for real
@@bogusmcbogus2637 real
@@bogusmcbogus2637 idk seems like the lady going off about not being represented in dove commercials was 100% going down a nonsensical fox news rabbit hole and the women saying she wasnt aborted so abortion is wrong very much reflect this