This year in Canada, whatever I can find will be good. Last week, I bought Federal premium for $32/box, it used to be $16. I have stocked up some good ones though. I normally shoot #4, 1 1/4” steel for ducks and #2 for geese. Velocity 1450 plus is good. But I don’t like to use the hypersonic ones with 1700+ velocity.
Sir....Your comments about steel shot in the early days and the propaganda (B.S.) put out by State and Federal agencies as well as the ammunition companies is probably the most truthful and direct and accurate interpretation of exactly what happened. I started hunting with lead when I was 13 (62 now) in a flooded timber swamp in northern N.J. I was of course, at that age, a terrible shot. My father, however, was not. He hunted with a Browning Superposed 20 gauge using 3" (paper) # 4 shot (1 1/4 oz. load). The chokes on this gun were "SKEET" in the bottom barrel and "FULL" in the top. Using the top barrel with this load, he was stopping ducks dead in their flights out to 35 to 40 yards. I mean dead without a twitch. After a few years, he switched to a Winchester autoloader (Model 1400) and used the Super-X Double X short magnum # 5 copper plated buffered shot load out of a Full choke and regularly killed ducks dead in the air out to 50 yards with this combination. Later in life I became a State Conservation Officer here in N.J. and experienced first-hand the BS of State & Federal agencies in regard to the effectiveness of Steel shot. You'll find this interesting because you're someone who actually understands shotgun ballistics. We were told during a Steel shot inculcation class that was taught by the State's top waterfowl biologist that to make up for the weight differences between Steel and Lead, all you had to do was to use Steel shot (2) sizes larger and that would make everything ok again. Of course, I raised my hand and said "Really, and then what happens to the pattern density? Now you're gonna have big holes in your pattern." My question was brushed off and I was told "You'll see how effective it is when we shoot some clay birds". So, after our esteemed class was taught, off we went to the clay range where I broke 23 out of 25 birds at a skeet range. This same biologist came up to me and said "See, it's really effective after all". I said "Yes, it sure is on clay birds that aren't over 22 yards away and also clay birds don't have feathers, bones, cartilage, or a will to live". I was then told I was just an unhappy person. And so, it began. We as law enforcement officers were forced to enforce something that anyone who hunted knew was utter BS. We as hunters were also forced to use this crap and of course "let the crippling begin". I can't tell you how many birds me and a friend crippled. If we used small steel shot, we crippled from lack of penetration. If we used larger steel shot, we crippled from irregular and less dense patterns. Eventually, the day came when bismuth shot came out. It was like a breath of fresh air. It didn't kill like lead, but it killed better than steel. I'm telling you all of this because you're one of the few people I think can appreciate all of this. One year, before bismuth came out, me and a buddy who hunt the same wooduck swamp shot and dropped 19 wooducks with steel shot. Our trained labs found 8 of them. The dogs didn't find the other birds, because they weren't there anymore, having crawled off or dived under the water. I realized early on that it seemed that the birds we weren't killing with lead shot we were crippling with steel. Of course, our state and federal agencies would disagree. The next year, I started using bismuth, but my buddy stayed with steel, not wanting to spend the money on very expensive ammo. That year I dropped 8 woodies and he dropped 9. I found all 8 and he found 4. Gee, what happened? Did my lab become more qualified to find ducks while his lab remained at the same skill level? Of course not. The key was that my ducks came down DEAD while many of his came down crippled (as usual and as they did the year before). The irritating issue is that many waterfowl biologists would call this "anecdotal evidence" and discount it as invalid. They'd talk about sample size, etc., etc., etc. Yet, facts are stubborn things. One last example: When tungsten polymer came out, I was again hunting with my buddy who continued to use steel shot. A hen wooduck came over him. He was hunting about 100 yards away from me. He shot and I saw the bird flutter but continue flying. The same bird came my way, and I dumped it. He was using the Winchester Blind Side square shot in # 5 size, and I was using Tungsten Polymer in # 5 size. When I cleaned the bird, I found he had hit the bird with 3 Blind side pellets which had penetrated the breast meat and stopped on the outside of the breastbone. Meanwhile, "anecdotally", my # 5 Tungsten Polymer pellets (3 of them) penetrated thru the breastbone, one of which even came out the back. That's what you need to kill ducks. The other upsetting issue for me is that I enjoy hunting with vintage Brownings and of course, steel shot is a no-no. I don't appreciate any government agency telling me I have to use ammunition in fine old guns that are going to damage them all in the name of voodoo science. The bottom line is that I have always believed ducks saved from poisoning may be no more than those killed by crippling and not retrieved. Thank goodness we have alternatives, but, again, many cannot and will not pay the obscene prices for these more effective non-toxic alternatives. Thank you for all your hard work. It's nice to see someone else that "gets it". Hunters in this country were bamboozled by these government agencies, that's the bottom line. They appealed to our sense of conservation and saving duck's lives. It was turned into an emotional issue rather than a factual one, and we, as hunters, swallowed the entire box of shells in the name of "conservation".
I generally shoot whatever I can find for the cheapest. Usually steel #2 to #4. For me it is way more enjoyable to shoot ducks feet down right in the spread so steel works just fine.
@deercatchersoutdoors330 you don't need expensive ammo if you get them feet down in the decoys. Getting ducks to finish in the decoys is more satisfying, to some of us, then blasting away at ducks at long range.
I love how professional your videos are. How friendly and soft spoken you are. Your content is family friendly and all my kids can watch and learn. Thanks bro
My experiences are pretty much identical to yours. We actually stopped duck hunting for several years following the lead ban. We only had a couple of guns that could shoot steel, and after crippling several birds, we quit. When they finally offered Bismuth, we started back again (still a bit cost prohibitive), but it immediately addressed all the issues of crippling that we saw with steel (even after upsizing the shot).
These video’s are very informative for me as I’m am fairly new to water fowl hunting, you do a great job it your explanation of how it all comes together. I can hardly wait til your next video...!! Thanks for breaking it all down.
I'm from Canada and I remember shooting lead and then switching to steel. all I can remember the first season I used steel, is shooting the ducks and they would shudder, a bunch of feathers would fall off and then the duck would keep flying away. right now I am shooting black cloud #2 or #3's in 12 gauge. I want to start shooting 20 g but there isn't a lot of ammunition available right now.
Joel, great video man! Wow would this have saved me so much time when I first started hunting waterfowl. Great presentation. Lately I'm using alot of BOSS 3" #4 at 1.5oz. But I'm constantly testing different loads looking for the best options for my hunting style and setup.
I hunted with lead for 20 yrs. before the steel mandate. Today I shoot BOSS for the most part. Steel is better today than in 1990. I do like TSS but it's really not affordable. Really enjoy your down to earth videos.
Thank you for taking the time to put together this series! I am preparing for my 2nd full season of duck hunting here in west TN and have found your videos to be very educational. I know that you can't rush putting together great content, but I'm hoping that the videos are out in time to help me decide which shell I will use this year.
With Steel speed is everything. Steel slows down so quickly after leaving the muzzle it's a waste of money to shoot them past 45yds in most cases. I've seen the ballistics and it was an eye opener. I shoot #2 steel at 1550fps min. There were these Federal Snow goose loads that went over 1600fps that were money as well. As for the specialty tungsten rounds, $6-$7per round is insane and definitely not in most peoples budget. I do miss the $5 a box days of lead for sure
I started hunting in 1989. By then steel (non toxic) was already required for waterfowl in my area. The old timers had used 12 ga., 1 1/4 oz #6 lead for years and years. When they switched to lead they first tried 12 ga 2 3/4” magnum #4 steel but weren’t happy with them. After a few seasons the 12 ga 3” magnum #2 steel became the go-to load for ducks. At that time I remember we were told to go 2-3 shot sizes larger and to use the larger shot charge possible to make up for pattern density. That’s about the time the 10ga made a comeback and the 12 ga 3 1/2” appeared.
I'm a little envious of your old shotgun shell boxes! I saw those, and I took a trip down memory lane. I remember shooting the Winchester Super XX that was bufferd and the plastic that they used blowing back in my eyes, good times 😊
This is the best video I have seen anyone present about waterfowl ammunition. As a hunter that also shot lead back in the day and I’ve used pretty much everything that has come along since. I can say I agree with everything you said. I was heart broke when I heard lead was banned, and then heart broken again when the Bismuth Cartridge Company went out of business. I remember the early days of Hevi-Shot and you could get some good stuff. We even would call them and order our own Hevi-Shot loads. When Rio start producing Bismuth loads I started using them and really liked them. Remington made some good loads too. I’ve liked a lot of the Federal loads like tungsten iron, then federal heavyweight, and then federal tss. I always try to use the best load to game and range I can. Sometimes high performance loads just aren’t available and the money hasn’t always been there for them. In those times I would just make sure birds were within range to ethically harvest them. I never would shoot the last I had of premium loads. I’m glad I didn’t because now I can look at them and reflect back on the great times I had with friends and family killing birds with them.
If I am goose hunting.. I'm rocking my Remington SP 10 Ga with Federal Black Cloud in BB & shooting it through a .720 Terror choke tube.. It's absolutely lights out devastating on geese.. If I'm duck hunting I'm going with my Browning Gold in 12ga using Boss 3 inch #3's & shooting it through a Pattern master code black duck choke tube.. It absolutely shoots lights out on ducks..
Usually Kent Fasteel #2 but switched to boss 3/5 duplex last year and really liked it. 2x Franchi Affinity w/ patternmaster code black duck choke. Both pattern great in wife and I's shotguns.
I have an affinity and use Kent 2s.. I’ll have to give this a try if it patterns well for a Franchi.. all barrels are a little different I know but at least we are in the same factory
@@TheChancerdog1 both mine and my wife's affinities pattern great with it and were purchased a year apart, my supernova (same choke type) patterns nicely with it too.
Joel you know I started with lead…and I can tell you flat out there is a huge difference…..I will say with in 20 yards in the woods very little issues. But anything farther….yup you can see the difference. My most favorite shotgun was and still is my Belgium browning 16 ga. I had to retire her until I found Bismuth and then when I found Boss ammo. Great video brother…….keep it up…..maybe one of these days we can meet up again and this time share a blind together.
Thanks Joel, I remember the conversations about lead vs steel all too well. My Dad was an avid and devote shot shell reloaded so the conversations became mind boggling. I ended up with the general use steel 2 sizes larger then lead.. so the #6 lead we shot #4 steel. God Bless
Patterned my gun with Boss 3" 4,5,3/5 shot. At 40 yards both the 3/5 and 5 patterned the same. Shot Winchester Xpert 3" 2 and 4 shot with terrible results in the field. My gun didn't like either the Boss or Winchester number 4 shot. Said all that to say my new shell for this year will be Boss 3" #5. I have a couple boxes of Boss 3" #3/5 to try as well. I shoot 20 gauge.
First of all, great videos! Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you about the lead to steel conversion. I started duck hunting in N.J. back in 1982 with lead and continued through 1986. I didn't pick hunting back up until 2016. I could still hunt upland game with lead then but in California all hunting later went to lead free only. I was very disappointed in the performance in steel for not only waterfowl but also for upland game hunting. For upland game, before it was lead free only, I shot lead and steel and compared them side by side on the same pheasant hunts. Lead had more clean kills at all distances, one shot and done every time. Steel, not so much! I had more birds still flapping and second follow-up shots needed even at closer ranges. When I saw the performance of steel on ducks it was no different and now when I use steel I use BB, #1 - #3s,
I used lead, the old Winchester duck and pheasant loads. It worked well. The steel didn't have the momentum to kill. I hit birds, had feather plumes and the birds flew on. I switched to the heavy metal loads trying to keep the same velocity in all my hunting ammo.
Right now the only place i can find steel shot is only $3 cheaper than Bismuth shot. I shot a goose over the weekend with 3 1/2 BBB and had 7 pellets into the body. Not one passed into vital organs through the bone. They all stopped in the meat. The only reason it stopped was a broken wing. Im thinking about switching to more dense non toxic shot.
Shot Apex last season and worked out great. Just bought a case for this year and looking forward to it. Appreciate all the advice Joel and keep the videos coming man. Big fan of this series!
I'm a newer duck hunter, this is my 3rd season. I've been using Winchester super x steel with mixed results. I've been looking into bismuth, tungsten. This is the info I needed . Thanks for the great content,Keep it coming!
I was wowed by Apex TSS last season and I picked up another 100 shells of it. I also bought a case of 250 of their Steel/TSS blend. I'm curious to see how that performs because the price per shell is significantly lower in the blend. What bothers me the most about the blend though, is that it is not a 50/50 mix but only 19% TSS. I'm looking forward to trying it out this season.
I shoot number 2 steel, typically boxes under $25. I shoot a long range Trulock choke and I get a really tight pattern. I find that If I use that choke and ammo size for all waterfowl, you get used to the pattern and despite the tight pattern at close range, I have an excellent hit rate, and the ducks are stone dead. I would rather shoot a tighter pattern with a bigger shot and either kill birds or miss. I found I dramatically reduced the amount of birds I crippled. But I can also say I became a much better duck hunter and I don’t really take shots beyond 30 yards anyway which reduces cripples as well
I did get to shoot lead from 1982/1983 to the 1987/1988 seasons. I was shooting a .410 at the time. For the 1987 season I had to switch to the 20 gauge because of having to use steel shot. So for me it was the switching of the gun that hurt the most. I did witness my dad, grandfather, and hunting friends crippling more ducks, with lots more sailers than in previous seasons with lead. Over time the steel loads did begin to get better. Once I switched to the 12 gauge I ended up choosing 3" 1 1/4oz # 2's for duck hunting in Federal and then Kent Fasteel. I now shoot Hevi-metal 3" 1 1/4oz # 2's for geese and BOSS 2 3/4" #5's (Shorty's) for ducks. I will probably be easing into BOSS more for goose hunting this season and into the future; basically once I run out of the Hevi-metal 3" 1 1/4 oz # 2's I currently have from a case I bought 3 - 4 years ago. I am going to try the 3" # 2's in BOSS for speck hunting. I have used the shorty's when duck hunting and have killed a few specks easily with it.
I started hunting ducks in 1972 with a 20 gauge 3 inch using lead shot. In about 1976 I bought a 12 gauge and started shooting 2 3/4 inch lead loads at ducks. When we were required to change to steel shot, there was a distinct difference. I remember watching ducks get hit and keep on flying. I could actually hear the shot hit the bird and watch it fly off. Later I gravitated towards the faster steel shot shells. I also went from shooting 5 shot lead to 3 shot steel. Not as good as lead, but a step in the right direction.
Before the lead ban, I hand loaded my own shells. I used high antimony lead shot, buffer and Winchester 571 magnum shotgun powder. I only used 1 1/8 load because I used a 1948 Auto 5 light 12. That load was lethal to 50 yard consistently on the tough northern mallards. The hardened lead and buffer preserved the roundness of the pellets that kept the patterns tight.
Great video and very informative 👍. I got the waterfowl hunting bug last year, and it's been pretty difficult to figure it out alone. Have you ever done a beginners guide to waterfowl hunting video? Something to help us poor saps figure out what gear we actually need, and not just the crap that every company wants you to buy. Thanks again
Joel, your videos are the best I’ve seen on this subject. You have done what I can only wish I’d done. Just one gripe. If I compare two, ounce and a quarter loads, steel 4 and bismuth 5, and both have the same number of pellets (237) then those pellets, steel 4 and bismuth 5, each weigh the same, and neither has a demonstrable advantage. The only difference is the size. There is no difference in energy, velocity, etc. One could argue the larger pellets will slow faster from wind resistance, but you could also say the larger pellets make a bigger hole. Any difference is negligible.
For ducks I like bismuth #4 or 5, or cheap steel (cheapest I can find) #2 or 3. I shoot a 20 ga and the bismuth makes all the difference. But BOSS is the only affordable bismuth out there. If they start charging $2 per shell I'll switch back to 12 ga and buy cheap steel.
Great! Have been to argentia and Mexico nothing like shooting lead! Ok $ for performance Heavy Metal for me. Post Covid. Pre it was Winchester Xpert for $9/box #3 1550!
Great video, Joel! As a science teacher, I love to hear someone breaking down the actual science behind shotgun shells!! I clearly remember that 40yd "blat" when shooting January geese with those first steel loads!!! One time in particular, I shot a goose three times flying straight overhead. The third shot dropped him dead, but I clearly heard each set of pellets hitting his body. When I picked the feathers off of him later, there were numerous size T pellets in his feathers, and lodged just under the skin. He had one hit just under the chin. I assume that was the one that dropped him. Just a few years earlier, when we shot lead #2 shot, those kinds of shots were a sure thing. I 100% agree with the lead ban, but boy was it frustrating at first!!! 😃
Thanks Tim. Yep, I remember the ‘blat’… very frustrating! I still hear it occasionally with guys hunting with me. Glad you liked the nerd stuff…lol. There a lot more of that on many of the other videos in the series.
I remember what my Pops did the year they went to steel. He kept a box of steel in the boat just in case he got checked. He said steel wasn’t worth a crap
My first year was 1986, only ever hunted waterfowl with non toxic,...use to have to watch and back up each other, kept shooting it the duck's head was up. For a kid learning early steel shot was very frustrating.
I do recall lead as a teenager- knocking down plenty of geese at ranges that would be laughable with steel. Fyi- dont switch to a baseball career:). Messing with you. Thx for videos- are helpful and enjoyable. Good luck this season
I've shot ducks with steel, Bismuth, lead and tungsten. Steel shot should be outlawed because guys don't understand pellet size, payload and chokes enough to mess with it. Additionally, it's a horrible projectile to begin with and cripples way too many birds. Lead is wonderful, cheap and kills birds dead in the air. Bismuth one size larger then lead works great but is expensive. Tungsten is awesome but cost prohibitive unless you're rich or shooting a once in a lifetime or year bird and only gonna shoot a shell or two
Boss bismuth 20 gauge #5 for ducks, and 10 gauge boss bismuth #2 or black cloud BB for Canada geese. Snow goose, I like black cloud bb 3" 12 gauge because its cheaper to shoot and I put an extended tube on my 11-87. Can't put an extended tube on a mag 10 haha.
The worst part about the switch were the dire warnings about shooting steel through a full choke. Back in the 80’s, most hunters I knew carried older guns with fixed chokes, with full being the most popular. Many had to buy new shotguns to shoot the new shells. Then to add insult to injury, the new steel loads were not the stellar performers we had been told they would be. Bismuth was such a good idea because it allowed many to continue hunting with their old trusty fixed choke gun
I'm burning all the steel I got left and switching entirely to Boss next year. Been very impressed with Boss so far. Always been shooting 2,3,&4 steel so far but #5 Boss is impressive.
I had been tagging a long with my dad and other realatives on duck hunts for nearly a decade before I was old enough and legal to start hunting myself. I do remember lead shot getting outlawed for waterfowling. The big thing I remember was hearing my dad and relatives complaining that they could no longer reload their own shells anymore. At the time it was an additional savings in ammo. Especially when you were loading for yourself as well as a couple of young beginners who were eager to shoot and not all that accurate. LOL... Fast forward a few years I was in college and given an assignment to research and report on any controversial topic. I chose the topic of steel shot vs lead. The topic was a lot closer to home now that I was buying my own ammo. What I learned was summarized for the most part in your video. The only part I would add is that the lead poisoning could be found in wounded game as well as non wounded game (fish, and other auquatic type critters). As these animals suffered the affects of lead poisoning they became more vulnerable to predators such as eagles, hawks, raccoons, skunks, etc... These animals were then exposed to the lead poisoning after consuming the contaminated meat of the infected animals. Several birds of prey and other predatory type animals were found dead from lead poisoning. My opinion of steel shot over lead quickly changed after my research. But at the time I was still not satisfied with the obvious difference in nock down power lead had over steel. I do remember it was a very obvious difference. I am happy to see alternatives on the market, but wish they were less expensive. Ps. I really like the ping pong ball vs. Golf ball analogy. Great Job!! Thanks for sharing your insight and your research. Keep up the good work.
Shot steel for years and making the switch to boss bismuth. The dog and I are sick of cripples and follow up shots. Me and my dog thunder had a conversation last hunt and both decided we are too old for that
Good explanation regarding the difference between lead and steel. The denser mass of the lead can overcome aerodynamic drag and preserve its lethal energy for a longer distance than steel. The A10 Warthog uses 30mm ammo and the projectile is made of depleted uranium because it is denser than lead and can better penetrate armor.
I remember buying my favourite duck load #5 Remington Nitro Mag 2 3/4 , great out to 40yards . Steel comes out and we are now shooting #2 in a 3” and nowhere near the same energy
Great video! Shot lead for 20 years before steel. Steel was a disaster! Steel is better now but I still shoot bismuth. Love BOSS, seems not frag as bad.
Steel absolutely sucked in the 80s and 90s. We used to kill multiples per shot with lead. I once killed 6 ducks with 3 shots with my 20 gauge 1100 and #6 2 3/4 shells. We did a lot of jump shooting when I was a kid. Lead was KING
I still have more than a few boxes of those original crap steel shells. It took a while to end up with good lead alternatives. I switched to Kent tungsten matrix 3" 1-1/2 oz loads. Never looked back.
Hi Joel, I hunted through the lead-steel transition. I can't recall any definitive difference in the lethality between lead and steel. Among me and my crew, marksmanship and shooting close makes the real difference. I recall a steel shot skeptic friend of mine routinely proclaiming, "You know when you hit them!" suggesting that during a barrage my friend knew when he (vs a fellow shooter) dispatched the target duck. I pondered my friend's belief and asked myself....if his thought was true, what happens when you miss? Assuming you fire when you think you're going to hit them, missing is proof that you do not know when you are going to hit them. To me marksmanship and shot selection is the real difference. Not me or any of my crew are limited by our shotguns lethal range. Marksmanship controls our effectiveness. Finally, most people don't know (in spite of their claims) how far they're shooting at flying birds anyway. If you add in the patterning uncertainty in every gun, a reasoned person could conclude claims in the field about insufficient steel lethality are unreliable.
I remember how angry everybody was when they outlawed lead shot. It was quite the adjustment. I haven't hunted waterfowl in a couple decades. I am planning to hunt ducks a little this year. I'm glad to see the improved technology in shotshells. I think I'll try some copper-plated bismuth. I tried the original bismuth shot from the 1990's but it wasn't good. I could never get a good pattern. I was doing a lot of Canada goose hunting back then. We tried everything....bismuth, F shot, T shot, BBB, tungsten.... The best I found was BBB steel. T and F shot had BIG holes in the patterns. Tungsten was getting there but was really expensive.
I would love to see you measure the actual size a certain size pellet from different companies. As a buckshot reloader, I can tell you that if were cut open 00 buckshot from 4 different companies and measure them with calipers you will find quiet a difference in pellet size. It would be interesting to see if waterfowl loads show as much variance.
My favorite 12ga ammo is 2-3/4” 1oz hevi shot #6’s it’s been my all time best for all ducks through my franchi’s ic or my mossberg 535 with the cremator mid range both have the same pattern at the same distance drops dicks the same. thank you once again. And that’s hevi shot tungsten ammo too
Fasteel 2.0 12g 3" 3's 1 1/4oz 1500fps drops any duck inside of 40 yards don't know why you'd wanna shoot anything past that and $20 a box instead of $65 for TSS blends
Steel shot left alot of cripples and fly aways. Which was very disturbing to an ethical hunter. Iam old enough to remember when it was first implemented.
To get really good results at distance, I shoot at least 1-1/4 oz of steel B to BB shot moving 1450-1550 FPS... It gives me around 100-105 pellets per payload. It works excellent... I have some of the loads I handload and shoot on my channel.
Remember shooting lead when I first started duck hunting remember when we had to shoot steel it was terrible when it first came out i I crippled more bird at over the decoy
I inherited a bunch of lead shot duck loads. A lot of were 3 inch 1-7/8 oz and copper plated. I sold them all last winter to a guy for $15 a box. I wish I would of kept them looking back. Now a days those loads are super expensive and marketed for turkey or coyote loads. I even had a few boxes of 3 inch 1-7/8 oz of BB copper plated lead. The only loads I found today are marketed as coyote loads and super expensive.
I have never met an old school hunter that would tell you that steel shot and lead shot are equal. However, as a new duck hunter I don't know the difference.
It's funny that I can hunt turkey with lead on Saturday then hunt the same field for geese on Sunday and have to use non toxic shot. I remember hitting ducks and geese and they would NOT go down or you had to chase them across a field and into the brush to get'em.
I know the feeling of having to go from lead to steel and watching birds fly off I used to use 7 1/2 lead for dove tell they made non toxic laws for all game animals and now you gotta shoot 6 steel for dove and still half the birds fly off
Still have 6 boxes of Kent Impact Tungsten Matrix 3 in# 5 I shoot a 20 gauge. If its inside 35-40 yards its clean and done . Don’t usually have to chase cripples. Not sure what I am going to shoot after their gone. Possibly Boss if I can ever get them in Canada.
What do I shoot Remington Kent and Bismuth buy the cases. No Federal why they are not reliable in my gun. In Steel Shot Remington Nitro SteeI start the season using 4 shot early season first three weeks most ducks are smaller , middle of the season next three weeks first shot 4 shot next two shots 3 shot are medium size ducks, late season first shot 3 shot next two 2 shot for Mallards. I have tried all the chokes and most days .015 in 12ga. I still have a few cases of Remington Wingmaster and it great but just got to dam expensive same for Bismuth and any Tungsten shell. I just wish I could go back to lead shot ! Tip with Black marker just put 2 marks 2 shot, 3 marks 3 shot, 4 marks 4shot and my goose loads just Black out the bottom of shell, makes it easy to see in shell belt.
12ga, 3", 1 1/4oz at least 1,400 fps for ducks in #2. 12ga, 3 1/2" 1 1/2oz BBB at 1,450fps. for any geese. This is for plain old steel shot. We normally shoot a standard modified choke on both unless shooting O/U for ducks, then Improved Cylinder and Modified. We never have issues cleanly killing birds with either of those loads. We shoot many, many birds each season. Absolutely no reason to pay for some shells. Increased speed and increased size in largest payloads easily gets the job accomplished. Most of the ducks we shoot are Mallards and Gadwalls, most geese are White Fronted and Snows though we do get Cananda's at times too.
We kill late season geese DEAD with 2 steel at 1300 fps to 45 yards + with boring regularity. These aren't southern birds either. They're fat, tough northern Pennsylvania birds. BBB is almost over kill and over the last 40 years of waterfowl hunting I find most hunters shooting anything bigger than BB are overcompensating for poor shooting. Put the pattern, (and you have to have a killing pattern), where it'll kill (head, neck organs and keel) and keep your shots at reasonable ranges and you're fine.
@@mightyjoeyoung1390 All the geese we shoot would be considered "late season", mid December into the first week of February. A load of 1 1/2oz BBB traveling at 1,450fps will rag a snow or white fronted goose easily at 50yds. Birds hit are down, there are no follow up shots, just move to the next target. I have seen Canada Geese take hits with #2's, unless hit in neck or head, can shake pellets from feathers, picked they have welts on them. If we are hunting Canada's, BBB Tungsten, again, modified choke, the pellets will go clean through Branta Canadensis Maxima. No follow up shots.
Hi, I like 👍🏻 your video. It's really very educational. I started hunting when I was little with my dad in Cuba and now I'm 45 years old, and in Cuba people still hunted with lead cartridges because it's not illegal. we usually used ammunition for small ducks. size 7 or 7 1/2, thanks for the vidios and I i hope you continue do this education videos good luck 👍🏻
Before I started hunting early 1970's my Mom bought me a Browning Superposed 12 Ga 26" I/C-Mod, most Fact. ammo was paper cased Shotshels. No problem for upland game but while Quail hunting spoted a nice 6 point Buck, very far out but when he steped into brush/ravine i run uphill to catch him on his way out, loaded two Eley Purple 00 Buck paper cased shells and was about 30 yds when he came out, let go 1 shot then the second and nothing(no hit) it run up the hill and looked back to se what was going on. Almost beat the gun to the ground, back at camp found an old keg paced 40 and shot it with each barrel, only 2 pellets out of 18 hit the keg, eventually started paterning and found out the shotgun hated large shot, a fine upland gun but not good past 35 Yds, Eventually after years of trying came accros an article about how early shotgunners thightened paterns with early non choked guns, Heavier but slower loads, made a 45 yd gun with 1 1/2 Oz Buffered #4-2 sized loads, The faster I tried to push 1 1/4 Oz the wider the patern, 1.100 Fps paterned great, still the only 12 Ga I got.And Buffered #1 buck reloads, exelent Deer load
I've shot Kent for years it's a low to mid-level price with very decent stopping power I'm very good kill ratio seems to pattern pretty well for the most part depending on the chokes I use factory chokes.... Works really well for me.
Federal blues 12g 3" #2 normally pattern well out of my nova with modified or code black duck Struggled to find shells picked up federal tss bb and 7 and I don't think I had a cripple through the whole box of ten shells Kent bismuth #4s last year late season thought it hit hard but didn't pattern as well
With that said shooting steel shot my number one goal is to get him in nice and close and normally don't take shots under 45 yards because the effectiveness is down even with the new loads. I don't recommend taking long shots but I've been at this quite a long time and I do know what I can do and when I can do it.
What ammo do you shoot?
3inch #2s steel
This year in Canada, whatever I can find will be good. Last week, I bought Federal premium for $32/box, it used to be $16. I have stocked up some good ones though. I normally shoot #4, 1 1/4” steel for ducks and #2 for geese. Velocity 1450 plus is good. But I don’t like to use the hypersonic ones with 1700+ velocity.
Kent or Federal Blue box #2 steel 3in but this year Boss 3in bismuth #4. Finally someone brings up how integral shot cups are to pattern density.
@@ChasingGreen hammer time!
Boss bismuth #5's for ducks and Boss #3's for geese.
Sir....Your comments about steel shot in the early days and the propaganda (B.S.) put out by State and Federal agencies as well as the ammunition companies is probably the most truthful and direct and accurate interpretation of exactly what happened. I started hunting with lead when I was 13 (62 now) in a flooded timber swamp in northern N.J. I was of course, at that age, a terrible shot. My father, however, was not. He hunted with a Browning Superposed 20 gauge using 3" (paper) # 4 shot (1 1/4 oz. load). The chokes on this gun were "SKEET" in the bottom barrel and "FULL" in the top. Using the top barrel with this load, he was stopping ducks dead in their flights out to 35 to 40 yards. I mean dead without a twitch. After a few years, he switched to a Winchester autoloader (Model 1400) and used the Super-X Double X short magnum # 5 copper plated buffered shot load out of a Full choke and regularly killed ducks dead in the air out to 50 yards with this combination. Later in life I became a State Conservation Officer here in N.J. and experienced first-hand the BS of State & Federal agencies in regard to the effectiveness of Steel shot. You'll find this interesting because you're someone who actually understands shotgun ballistics. We were told during a Steel shot inculcation class that was taught by the State's top waterfowl biologist that to make up for the weight differences between Steel and Lead, all you had to do was to use Steel shot (2) sizes larger and that would make everything ok again. Of course, I raised my hand and said "Really, and then what happens to the pattern density? Now you're gonna have big holes in your pattern." My question was brushed off and I was told "You'll see how effective it is when we shoot some clay birds". So, after our esteemed class was taught, off we went to the clay range where I broke 23 out of 25 birds at a skeet range. This same biologist came up to me and said "See, it's really effective after all". I said "Yes, it sure is on clay birds that aren't over 22 yards away and also clay birds don't have feathers, bones, cartilage, or a will to live". I was then told I was just an unhappy person. And so, it began. We as law enforcement officers were forced to enforce something that anyone who hunted knew was utter BS. We as hunters were also forced to use this crap and of course "let the crippling begin". I can't tell you how many birds me and a friend crippled. If we used small steel shot, we crippled from lack of penetration. If we used larger steel shot, we crippled from irregular and less dense patterns. Eventually, the day came when bismuth shot came out. It was like a breath of fresh air. It didn't kill like lead, but it killed better than steel. I'm telling you all of this because you're one of the few people I think can appreciate all of this. One year, before bismuth came out, me and a buddy who hunt the same wooduck swamp shot and dropped 19 wooducks with steel shot. Our trained labs found 8 of them. The dogs didn't find the other birds, because they weren't there anymore, having crawled off or dived under the water. I realized early on that it seemed that the birds we weren't killing with lead shot we were crippling with steel. Of course, our state and federal agencies would disagree. The next year, I started using bismuth, but my buddy stayed with steel, not wanting to spend the money on very expensive ammo. That year I dropped 8 woodies and he dropped 9. I found all 8 and he found 4. Gee, what happened? Did my lab become more qualified to find ducks while his lab remained at the same skill level? Of course not. The key was that my ducks came down DEAD while many of his came down crippled (as usual and as they did the year before). The irritating issue is that many waterfowl biologists would call this "anecdotal evidence" and discount it as invalid. They'd talk about sample size, etc., etc., etc. Yet, facts are stubborn things. One last example: When tungsten polymer came out, I was again hunting with my buddy who continued to use steel shot. A hen wooduck came over him. He was hunting about 100 yards away from me. He shot and I saw the bird flutter but continue flying. The same bird came my way, and I dumped it. He was using the Winchester Blind Side square shot in # 5 size, and I was using Tungsten Polymer in # 5 size. When I cleaned the bird, I found he had hit the bird with 3 Blind side pellets which had penetrated the breast meat and stopped on the outside of the breastbone. Meanwhile, "anecdotally", my # 5 Tungsten Polymer pellets (3 of them) penetrated thru the breastbone, one of which even came out the back. That's what you need to kill ducks. The other upsetting issue for me is that I enjoy hunting with vintage Brownings and of course, steel shot is a no-no. I don't appreciate any government agency telling me I have to use ammunition in fine old guns that are going to damage them all in the name of voodoo science. The bottom line is that I have always believed ducks saved from poisoning may be no more than those killed by crippling and not retrieved. Thank goodness we have alternatives, but, again, many cannot and will not pay the obscene prices for these more effective non-toxic alternatives. Thank you for all your hard work. It's nice to see someone else that "gets it". Hunters in this country were bamboozled by these government agencies, that's the bottom line. They appealed to our sense of conservation and saving duck's lives. It was turned into an emotional issue rather than a factual one, and we, as hunters, swallowed the entire box of shells in the name of "conservation".
Thank you for the read, you didn’t get enough recognition from this comment.
I generally shoot whatever I can find for the cheapest. Usually steel #2 to #4. For me it is way more enjoyable to shoot ducks feet down right in the spread so steel works just fine.
You spent $$$$ on everything you hunt with, waders, calls, dekes,etc. why skimp on ammo?
@deercatchersoutdoors330 you don't need expensive ammo if you get them feet down in the decoys. Getting ducks to finish in the decoys is more satisfying, to some of us, then blasting away at ducks at long range.
I love how professional your videos are. How friendly and soft spoken you are. Your content is family friendly and all my kids can watch and learn. Thanks bro
Great knowledgable videos! You sold me at the God Bless at the end!! Don’t see many sticking to their faith in these times!!! God bless you my man!
My experiences are pretty much identical to yours. We actually stopped duck hunting for several years following the lead ban. We only had a couple of guns that could shoot steel, and after crippling several birds, we quit. When they finally offered Bismuth, we started back again (still a bit cost prohibitive), but it immediately addressed all the issues of crippling that we saw with steel (even after upsizing the shot).
These video’s are very informative for me as I’m am fairly new to water fowl hunting, you do a great job it your explanation of how it all comes together. I can hardly wait til your next video...!! Thanks for breaking it all down.
Thanks Tim, I’m glad your enjoying the content!
I love all the old ammo boxes you have on the table. Takes me back to my teenage years
Glad I kept a few!
Been waiting for the next episode in this series!
Finally!!! 👍🏻😁
@@SurvivingDuckSeason This will be my first year duck hunting. I’ve been soaking up all the information I can.
@@FaithForgedGames that’s great! Thanks for watching.
@@SurvivingDuckSeason of course. Love your well-spoken approach and high quality recording. Hands down my go to duck channel!
I'm from Canada and I remember shooting lead and then switching to steel.
all I can remember the first season I used steel, is shooting the ducks and they would shudder, a bunch of feathers would fall off and then the duck would keep flying away.
right now I am shooting black cloud #2 or #3's in 12 gauge.
I want to start shooting 20 g but there isn't a lot of ammunition available right now.
Joel, great video man! Wow would this have saved me so much time when I first started hunting waterfowl. Great presentation. Lately I'm using alot of BOSS 3" #4 at 1.5oz. But I'm constantly testing different loads looking for the best options for my hunting style and setup.
Thanks George! 👍🏻👊🏻💪🏻
I hunted with lead for 20 yrs. before the steel mandate. Today I shoot BOSS for the most part. Steel is better today than in 1990. I do like TSS but it's really not affordable. Really enjoy your down to earth videos.
I remember that time (Switching to steel), the common wisdom at the time was to shoot two sizes bigger.
Thank you for taking the time to put together this series! I am preparing for my 2nd full season of duck hunting here in west TN and have found your videos to be very educational. I know that you can't rush putting together great content, but I'm hoping that the videos are out in time to help me decide which shell I will use this year.
You’re welcome! Glad the content is helping you. We’re doing our best to get these videos out ASAP. Thanks for watching!
Joel this is exact series of science based videos I’ve been wanting to see. Awesome work already man. Can’t wait to see the choke videos.
With Steel speed is everything. Steel slows down so quickly after leaving the muzzle it's a waste of money to shoot them past 45yds in most cases. I've seen the ballistics and it was an eye opener.
I shoot #2 steel at 1550fps min. There were these Federal Snow goose loads that went over 1600fps that were money as well. As for the specialty tungsten rounds, $6-$7per round is insane and definitely not in most peoples budget.
I do miss the $5 a box days of lead for sure
I started hunting in 1989. By then steel (non toxic) was already required for waterfowl in my area. The old timers had used 12 ga., 1 1/4 oz #6 lead for years and years. When they switched to lead they first tried 12 ga 2 3/4” magnum #4 steel but weren’t happy with them. After a few seasons the 12 ga 3” magnum #2 steel became the go-to load for ducks. At that time I remember we were told to go 2-3 shot sizes larger and to use the larger shot charge possible to make up for pattern density. That’s about the time the 10ga made a comeback and the 12 ga 3 1/2” appeared.
I'm a little envious of your old shotgun shell boxes! I saw those, and I took a trip down memory lane. I remember shooting the Winchester Super XX that was bufferd and the plastic that they used blowing back in my eyes, good times 😊
This is the best video I have seen anyone present about waterfowl ammunition. As a hunter that also shot lead back in the day and I’ve used pretty much everything that has come along since. I can say I agree with everything you said. I was heart broke when I heard lead was banned, and then heart broken again when the Bismuth Cartridge Company went out of business. I remember the early days of Hevi-Shot and you could get some good stuff. We even would call them and order our own Hevi-Shot loads. When Rio start producing Bismuth loads I started using them and really liked them. Remington made some good loads too. I’ve liked a lot of the Federal loads like tungsten iron, then federal heavyweight, and then federal tss. I always try to use the best load to game and range I can. Sometimes high performance loads just aren’t available and the money hasn’t always been there for them. In those times I would just make sure birds were within range to ethically harvest them. I never would shoot the last I had of premium loads. I’m glad I didn’t because now I can look at them and reflect back on the great times I had with friends and family killing birds with them.
Very informative, I went through the transition from lead to non- toxic and know exactly what you are saying. Looking forward to more!
Thanks Paul!
If I am goose hunting.. I'm rocking my Remington SP 10 Ga with Federal Black Cloud in BB & shooting it through a .720 Terror choke tube.. It's absolutely lights out devastating on geese.. If I'm duck hunting I'm going with my Browning Gold in 12ga using Boss 3 inch #3's & shooting it through a Pattern master code black duck choke tube.. It absolutely shoots lights out on ducks..
Usually Kent Fasteel #2 but switched to boss 3/5 duplex last year and really liked it. 2x Franchi Affinity w/ patternmaster code black duck choke. Both pattern great in wife and I's shotguns.
I have an affinity and use Kent 2s.. I’ll have to give this a try if it patterns well for a Franchi.. all barrels are a little different I know but at least we are in the same factory
@@TheChancerdog1 both mine and my wife's affinities pattern great with it and were purchased a year apart, my supernova (same choke type) patterns nicely with it too.
Joel you know I started with lead…and I can tell you flat out there is a huge difference…..I will say with in 20 yards in the woods very little issues. But anything farther….yup you can see the difference. My most favorite shotgun was and still is my Belgium browning 16 ga. I had to retire her until I found Bismuth and then when I found Boss ammo. Great video brother…….keep it up…..maybe one of these days we can meet up again and this time share a blind together.
Right on, Big Dawg! Yeah would be fun💪🏻👊🏻👍🏻
Love this series! Ive been shooting the MIGRA 2/4 since last season and I really like it. Excellent information here!
Thanks Joel,
I remember the conversations about lead vs steel all too well. My Dad was an avid and devote shot shell reloaded so the conversations became mind boggling. I ended up with the general use steel 2 sizes larger then lead.. so the #6 lead we shot #4 steel. God Bless
Patterned my gun with Boss 3" 4,5,3/5 shot. At 40 yards both the 3/5 and 5 patterned the same. Shot Winchester Xpert 3" 2 and 4 shot with terrible results in the field. My gun didn't like either the Boss or Winchester number 4 shot.
Said all that to say my new shell for this year will be Boss 3" #5. I have a couple boxes of Boss 3" #3/5 to try as well. I shoot 20 gauge.
First of all, great videos! Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you about the lead to steel conversion. I started duck hunting in N.J. back in 1982 with lead and continued through 1986. I didn't pick hunting back up until 2016. I could still hunt upland game with lead then but in California all hunting later went to lead free only. I was very disappointed in the performance in steel for not only waterfowl but also for upland game hunting. For upland game, before it was lead free only, I shot lead and steel and compared them side by side on the same pheasant hunts. Lead had more clean kills at all distances, one shot and done every time. Steel, not so much! I had more birds still flapping and second follow-up shots needed even at closer ranges. When I saw the performance of steel on ducks it was no different and now when I use steel I use BB, #1 - #3s,
I used lead, the old Winchester duck and pheasant loads. It worked well. The steel didn't have the momentum to kill. I hit birds, had feather plumes and the birds flew on. I switched to the heavy metal loads trying to keep the same velocity in all my hunting ammo.
Right now the only place i can find steel shot is only $3 cheaper than Bismuth shot. I shot a goose over the weekend with 3 1/2 BBB and had 7 pellets into the body. Not one passed into vital organs through the bone. They all stopped in the meat. The only reason it stopped was a broken wing. Im thinking about switching to more dense non toxic shot.
Shot Apex last season and worked out great. Just bought a case for this year and looking forward to it. Appreciate all the advice Joel and keep the videos coming man. Big fan of this series!
I’ve been running BOSS 3 inch number 4 shot for a few years now and it’s a great choice.!
Plenty to learn from this man! Thanks for the knowledgeable content my friend.
I'm a newer duck hunter, this is my 3rd season. I've been using Winchester super x steel with mixed results. I've been looking into bismuth, tungsten. This is the info I needed . Thanks for the great content,Keep it coming!
I was wowed by Apex TSS last season and I picked up another 100 shells of it. I also bought a case of 250 of their Steel/TSS blend. I'm curious to see how that performs because the price per shell is significantly lower in the blend. What bothers me the most about the blend though, is that it is not a 50/50 mix but only 19% TSS. I'm looking forward to trying it out this season.
I shoot number 2 steel, typically boxes under $25. I shoot a long range Trulock choke and I get a really tight pattern. I find that If I use that choke and ammo size for all waterfowl, you get used to the pattern and despite the tight pattern at close range, I have an excellent hit rate, and the ducks are stone dead. I would rather shoot a tighter pattern with a bigger shot and either kill birds or miss. I found I dramatically reduced the amount of birds I crippled. But I can also say I became a much better duck hunter and I don’t really take shots beyond 30 yards anyway which reduces cripples as well
These videos are really great! Nice work!
One of the best comparison I have witnessed between the golf ball and the ping pong ball. This puts it in layman’s terms.
I love bismuth, it hits well and I have to swat fewer cripples and thus shoot fewer shells.
I know what you’re talkin’ about 💪🏻
I did get to shoot lead from 1982/1983 to the 1987/1988 seasons. I was shooting a .410 at the time. For the 1987 season I had to switch to the 20 gauge because of having to use steel shot. So for me it was the switching of the gun that hurt the most. I did witness my dad, grandfather, and hunting friends crippling more ducks, with lots more sailers than in previous seasons with lead. Over time the steel loads did begin to get better. Once I switched to the 12 gauge I ended up choosing 3" 1 1/4oz # 2's for duck hunting in Federal and then Kent Fasteel.
I now shoot Hevi-metal 3" 1 1/4oz # 2's for geese and BOSS 2 3/4" #5's (Shorty's) for ducks. I will probably be easing into BOSS more for goose hunting this season and into the future; basically once I run out of the Hevi-metal 3" 1 1/4 oz # 2's I currently have from a case I bought 3 - 4 years ago. I am going to try the 3" # 2's in BOSS for speck hunting. I have used the shorty's when duck hunting and have killed a few specks easily with it.
Trying Boss 3” number 3 shot bismuth in my 20 gauge this year. But I normally shoot 3” number 4 for duck, and #2 for goose.
I started hunting ducks in 1972 with a 20 gauge 3 inch using lead shot. In about 1976 I bought a 12 gauge and started shooting 2 3/4 inch lead loads at ducks. When we were required to change to steel shot, there was a distinct difference. I remember watching ducks get hit and keep on flying. I could actually hear the shot hit the bird and watch it fly off. Later I gravitated towards the faster steel shot shells. I also went from shooting 5 shot lead to 3 shot steel. Not as good as lead, but a step in the right direction.
Before the lead ban, I hand loaded my own shells. I used high antimony lead shot, buffer and Winchester 571 magnum shotgun powder. I only used 1 1/8 load because I used a 1948 Auto 5 light 12. That load was lethal to 50 yard consistently on the tough northern mallards. The hardened lead and buffer preserved the roundness of the pellets that kept the patterns tight.
Great video and very informative 👍. I got the waterfowl hunting bug last year, and it's been pretty difficult to figure it out alone. Have you ever done a beginners guide to waterfowl hunting video? Something to help us poor saps figure out what gear we actually need, and not just the crap that every company wants you to buy.
Thanks again
Joel, your videos are the best I’ve seen on this subject. You have done what I can only wish I’d done. Just one gripe. If I compare two, ounce and a quarter loads, steel 4 and bismuth 5, and both have the same number of pellets (237) then those pellets, steel 4 and bismuth 5, each weigh the same, and neither has a demonstrable advantage. The only difference is the size. There is no difference in energy, velocity, etc. One could argue the larger pellets will slow faster from wind resistance, but you could also say the larger pellets make a bigger hole. Any difference is negligible.
For ducks I like bismuth #4 or 5, or cheap steel (cheapest I can find) #2 or 3. I shoot a 20 ga and the bismuth makes all the difference. But BOSS is the only affordable bismuth out there. If they start charging $2 per shell I'll switch back to 12 ga and buy cheap steel.
Great! Have been to argentia and Mexico nothing like shooting lead! Ok $ for performance Heavy Metal for me. Post Covid. Pre it was Winchester Xpert for $9/box #3 1550!
Great video, Joel! As a science teacher, I love to hear someone breaking down the actual science behind shotgun shells!! I clearly remember that 40yd "blat" when shooting January geese with those first steel loads!!! One time in particular, I shot a goose three times flying straight overhead. The third shot dropped him dead, but I clearly heard each set of pellets hitting his body. When I picked the feathers off of him later, there were numerous size T pellets in his feathers, and lodged just under the skin. He had one hit just under the chin. I assume that was the one that dropped him. Just a few years earlier, when we shot lead #2 shot, those kinds of shots were a sure thing. I 100% agree with the lead ban, but boy was it frustrating at first!!! 😃
Thanks Tim. Yep, I remember the ‘blat’… very frustrating! I still hear it occasionally with guys hunting with me. Glad you liked the nerd stuff…lol. There a lot more of that on many of the other videos in the series.
I remember what my Pops did the year they went to steel. He kept a box of steel in the boat just in case he got checked. He said steel wasn’t worth a crap
My first year was 1986, only ever hunted waterfowl with non toxic,...use to have to watch and back up each other, kept shooting it the duck's head was up. For a kid learning early steel shot was very frustrating.
next year there will be the change between lead shot and non-toxic load I'm worried 😬🇮🇹😬
I do recall lead as a teenager- knocking down plenty of geese at ranges that would be laughable with steel. Fyi- dont switch to a baseball career:). Messing with you. Thx for videos- are helpful and enjoyable. Good luck this season
I've shot ducks with steel, Bismuth, lead and tungsten.
Steel shot should be outlawed because guys don't understand pellet size, payload and chokes enough to mess with it. Additionally, it's a horrible projectile to begin with and cripples way too many birds.
Lead is wonderful, cheap and kills birds dead in the air.
Bismuth one size larger then lead works great but is expensive.
Tungsten is awesome but cost prohibitive unless you're rich or shooting a once in a lifetime or year bird and only gonna shoot a shell or two
Lead also devastates hatching rates for waterfowl.
Boss bismuth 20 gauge #5 for ducks, and 10 gauge boss bismuth #2 or black cloud BB for Canada geese. Snow goose, I like black cloud bb 3" 12 gauge because its cheaper to shoot and I put an extended tube on my 11-87. Can't put an extended tube on a mag 10 haha.
Winchester Blindside 12g, 3inch, 1 3/8oz #2’s is my favorite for my choke and setup.
The worst part about the switch were the dire warnings about shooting steel through a full choke. Back in the 80’s, most hunters I knew carried older guns with fixed chokes, with full being the most popular. Many had to buy new shotguns to shoot the new shells. Then to add insult to injury, the new steel loads were not the stellar performers we had been told they would be. Bismuth was such a good idea because it allowed many to continue hunting with their old trusty fixed choke gun
I'm burning all the steel I got left and switching entirely to Boss next year. Been very impressed with Boss so far. Always been shooting 2,3,&4 steel so far but #5 Boss is impressive.
I had been tagging a long with my dad and other realatives on duck hunts for nearly a decade before I was old enough and legal to start hunting myself. I do remember lead shot getting outlawed for waterfowling. The big thing I remember was hearing my dad and relatives complaining that they could no longer reload their own shells anymore. At the time it was an additional savings in ammo. Especially when you were loading for yourself as well as a couple of young beginners who were eager to shoot and not all that accurate. LOL...
Fast forward a few years I was in college and given an assignment to research and report on any controversial topic. I chose the topic of steel shot vs lead. The topic was a lot closer to home now that I was buying my own ammo.
What I learned was summarized for the most part in your video. The only part I would add is that the lead poisoning could be found in wounded game as well as non wounded game (fish, and other auquatic type critters). As these animals suffered the affects of lead poisoning they became more vulnerable to predators such as eagles, hawks, raccoons, skunks, etc... These animals were then exposed to the lead poisoning after consuming the contaminated meat of the infected animals. Several birds of prey and other predatory type animals were found dead from lead poisoning. My opinion of steel shot over lead quickly changed after my research.
But at the time I was still not satisfied with the obvious difference in nock down power lead had over steel. I do remember it was a very obvious difference. I am happy to see alternatives on the market, but wish they were less expensive.
Ps. I really like the ping pong ball vs. Golf ball analogy. Great Job!!
Thanks for sharing your insight and your research. Keep up the good work.
Yeah there were a bunch of eagles and condors that died from second hand lead poisoning. Thanks Travis for sharing your experiences👍🏻
Shot steel for years and making the switch to boss bismuth. The dog and I are sick of cripples and follow up shots. Me and my dog thunder had a conversation last hunt and both decided we are too old for that
RIO Shot shells r great👍🏻
I'm actually a fan of the Winchester blindside. Looking forward to trying the blindside 2 this year
Good explanation regarding the difference between lead and steel. The denser mass of the lead can overcome aerodynamic drag and preserve its lethal energy for a longer distance than steel. The A10 Warthog uses 30mm ammo and the projectile is made of depleted uranium because it is denser than lead and can better penetrate armor.
I remember buying my favourite duck load #5 Remington Nitro Mag 2 3/4 , great out to 40yards . Steel comes out and we are now shooting #2 in a 3” and nowhere near the same energy
And it was only $14 / box! Canadian! 😂
I know a guy pretty well that can attest to that fact even today🤣
Boss the last two seasons.
Great video! Shot lead for 20 years before steel. Steel was a disaster! Steel is better now but I still shoot bismuth. Love BOSS, seems not frag as bad.
love the vids thanks, i shoot fed blues # 2
Thanks!
Steel absolutely sucked in the 80s and 90s. We used to kill multiples per shot with lead. I once killed 6 ducks with 3 shots with my 20 gauge 1100 and #6 2 3/4 shells. We did a lot of jump shooting when I was a kid. Lead was KING
I still have more than a few boxes of those original crap steel shells. It took a while to end up with good lead alternatives. I switched to Kent tungsten matrix 3" 1-1/2 oz loads. Never looked back.
Boss 2-3/4" #3/5
Hi Joel, I hunted through the lead-steel transition. I can't recall any definitive difference in the lethality between lead and steel. Among me and my crew, marksmanship and shooting close makes the real difference. I recall a steel shot skeptic friend of mine routinely proclaiming, "You know when you hit them!" suggesting that during a barrage my friend knew when he (vs a fellow shooter) dispatched the target duck. I pondered my friend's belief and asked myself....if his thought was true, what happens when you miss? Assuming you fire when you think you're going to hit them, missing is proof that you do not know when you are going to hit them. To me marksmanship and shot selection is the real difference. Not me or any of my crew are limited by our shotguns lethal range. Marksmanship controls our effectiveness. Finally, most people don't know (in spite of their claims) how far they're shooting at flying birds anyway. If you add in the patterning uncertainty in every gun, a reasoned person could conclude claims in the field about insufficient steel lethality are unreliable.
Been shooting Winchester Super X 3in. #2s and #4s past couple seasons (my first 2). Plan on experimenting with some different shells this season.
I come to love the boss 3 5 blind
Boss 3" 5's, 20ga, had good performace on ducks and geese last fall.
I remember how angry everybody was when they outlawed lead shot. It was quite the adjustment.
I haven't hunted waterfowl in a couple decades. I am planning to hunt ducks a little this year. I'm glad to see the improved technology in shotshells.
I think I'll try some copper-plated bismuth. I tried the original bismuth shot from the 1990's but it wasn't good. I could never get a good pattern. I was doing a lot of Canada goose hunting back then. We tried everything....bismuth, F shot, T shot, BBB, tungsten.... The best I found was BBB steel. T and F shot had BIG holes in the patterns. Tungsten was getting there but was really expensive.
I would love to see you measure the actual size a certain size pellet from different companies. As a buckshot reloader, I can tell you that if were cut open 00 buckshot from 4 different companies and measure them with calipers you will find quiet a difference in pellet size. It would be interesting to see if waterfowl loads show as much variance.
My favorite 12ga ammo is 2-3/4” 1oz hevi shot #6’s it’s been my all time best for all ducks through my franchi’s ic or my mossberg 535 with the cremator mid range both have the same pattern at the same distance drops dicks the same. thank you once again. And that’s hevi shot tungsten ammo too
I really hope you mean ducks and not dicks. Never can tell with today's society. 😋
Fasteel 2.0 12g 3" 3's 1 1/4oz 1500fps drops any duck inside of 40 yards don't know why you'd wanna shoot anything past that and $20 a box instead of $65 for TSS blends
Steel shot left alot of cripples and fly aways. Which was very disturbing to an ethical hunter. Iam old enough to remember when it was first implemented.
To get really good results at distance, I shoot at least 1-1/4 oz of steel B to BB shot moving 1450-1550 FPS... It gives me around 100-105 pellets per payload. It works excellent... I have some of the loads I handload and shoot on my channel.
Remember shooting lead when I first started duck hunting remember when we had to shoot steel it was terrible when it first came out i I crippled more bird at over the decoy
Kent 1 1/4 #4's light modified Midas choke in a Maxus
Good combination there.
I inherited a bunch of lead shot duck loads. A lot of were 3 inch 1-7/8 oz and copper plated. I sold them all last winter to a guy for $15 a box. I wish I would of kept them looking back. Now a days those loads are super expensive and marketed for turkey or coyote loads. I even had a few boxes of 3 inch 1-7/8 oz of BB copper plated lead. The only loads I found today are marketed as coyote loads and super expensive.
I like see you do this shotgun series with 20ga as 20ga shooter all my friends think I at big disadvantage please prove them wrong
Great video
Thanks Jake 👊🏻
Ditto
Federal Black Cloud 2 3/4” #3’s for ducks n 3” #2’s for geese out of a factory modified choke.
I have never met an old school hunter that would tell you that steel shot and lead shot are equal. However, as a new duck hunter I don't know the difference.
I like blindside number 3s. 3 inch. A5 browning 12 Guage modified choke 28 inch barrel. Does the trick for me. old browning at that
If I can find it I use #6 Hevi XII, 3 inch. Takes care of everything from a Teal to Tundra Swan. Well worth the money
Same here. Plus I use a lot fewer of them.
It's funny that I can hunt turkey with lead on Saturday then hunt the same field for geese on Sunday and have to use non toxic shot. I remember hitting ducks and geese and they would NOT go down or you had to chase them across a field and into the brush to get'em.
I know the feeling of having to go from lead to steel and watching birds fly off I used to use 7 1/2 lead for dove tell they made non toxic laws for all game animals and now you gotta shoot 6 steel for dove and still half the birds fly off
Still have 6 boxes of Kent Impact Tungsten Matrix 3 in# 5 I shoot a 20 gauge. If its inside 35-40 yards its clean and done . Don’t usually have to chase cripples. Not sure what I am going to shoot after their gone. Possibly Boss if I can ever get them in Canada.
What do I shoot Remington Kent and Bismuth buy the cases. No Federal why they are not reliable in my gun. In Steel Shot Remington Nitro SteeI start the season using 4 shot early season first three weeks most ducks are smaller , middle of the season next three weeks first shot 4 shot next two shots 3 shot are medium size ducks, late season first shot 3 shot next two 2 shot for Mallards.
I have tried all the chokes and most days .015 in 12ga. I still have a few cases of Remington Wingmaster and it great but just got to dam expensive same for Bismuth and any Tungsten shell. I just wish I could go back to lead shot ! Tip with Black marker just put 2 marks 2 shot, 3 marks 3 shot, 4 marks 4shot and my goose loads just Black out the bottom of shell, makes it easy to see in shell belt.
Federal has gone to complete dog shit.... lower cost and quality is their new motto
12ga, 3", 1 1/4oz at least 1,400 fps for ducks in #2. 12ga, 3 1/2" 1 1/2oz BBB at 1,450fps. for any geese. This is for plain old steel shot. We normally shoot a standard modified choke on both unless shooting O/U for ducks, then Improved Cylinder and Modified. We never have issues cleanly killing birds with either of those loads. We shoot many, many birds each season. Absolutely no reason to pay for some shells. Increased speed and increased size in largest payloads easily gets the job accomplished. Most of the ducks we shoot are Mallards and Gadwalls, most geese are White Fronted and Snows though we do get Cananda's at times too.
We kill late season geese DEAD with 2 steel at 1300 fps to 45 yards + with boring regularity. These aren't southern birds either. They're fat, tough northern Pennsylvania birds. BBB is almost over kill and over the last 40 years of waterfowl hunting I find most hunters shooting anything bigger than BB are overcompensating for poor shooting. Put the pattern, (and you have to have a killing pattern), where it'll kill (head, neck organs and keel) and keep your shots at reasonable ranges and you're fine.
@@mightyjoeyoung1390 #2 steel, 1300fps, bet you can shake the pellets out of the feathers too!!!!
@@mightyjoeyoung1390 All the geese we shoot would be considered "late season", mid December into the first week of February. A load of 1 1/2oz BBB traveling at 1,450fps will rag a snow or white fronted goose easily at 50yds. Birds hit are down, there are no follow up shots, just move to the next target.
I have seen Canada Geese take hits with #2's, unless hit in neck or head, can shake pellets from feathers, picked they have welts on them. If we are hunting Canada's, BBB Tungsten, again, modified choke, the pellets will go clean through Branta Canadensis Maxima. No follow up shots.
@@meghan7547 Now that’s funny
Hi, I like 👍🏻 your video. It's really very educational. I started hunting when I was little with my dad in Cuba and now I'm 45 years old, and in Cuba people still hunted with lead cartridges because it's not illegal. we usually used ammunition for small ducks. size 7 or 7 1/2, thanks for the vidios and I i hope you continue do this education videos good luck 👍🏻
Thanks for sharing, good stuff… and thanks for your support! 💪🏻👍🏻👊🏻
@@SurvivingDuckSeason You welcome sir
Before I started hunting early 1970's my Mom bought me a Browning Superposed 12 Ga 26" I/C-Mod, most Fact. ammo was paper cased Shotshels. No problem for upland game but while Quail hunting spoted a nice 6 point Buck, very far out but when he steped into brush/ravine i run uphill to catch him on his way out, loaded two Eley Purple 00 Buck paper cased shells and was about 30 yds when he came out, let go 1 shot then the second and nothing(no hit) it run up the hill and looked back to se what was going on. Almost beat the gun to the ground, back at camp found an old keg paced 40 and shot it with each barrel, only 2 pellets out of 18 hit the keg, eventually started paterning and found out the shotgun hated large shot, a fine upland gun but not good past 35 Yds, Eventually after years of trying came accros an article about how early shotgunners thightened paterns with early non choked guns, Heavier but slower loads, made a 45 yd gun with 1 1/2 Oz Buffered #4-2 sized loads, The faster I tried to push 1 1/4 Oz the wider the patern, 1.100 Fps paterned great, still the only 12 Ga I got.And Buffered #1 buck reloads, exelent Deer load
I've shot Kent for years it's a low to mid-level price with very decent stopping power I'm very good kill ratio seems to pattern pretty well for the most part depending on the chokes I use factory chokes.... Works really well for me.
Federal blues 12g 3" #2 normally pattern well out of my nova with modified or code black duck
Struggled to find shells picked up federal tss bb and 7 and I don't think I had a cripple through the whole box of ten shells
Kent bismuth #4s last year late season thought it hit hard but didn't pattern as well
With that said shooting steel shot my number one goal is to get him in nice and close and normally don't take shots under 45 yards because the effectiveness is down even with the new loads. I don't recommend taking long shots but I've been at this quite a long time and I do know what I can do and when I can do it.
I’m a predator hunter but this is Amazing information
great video ! Thanks ! ! !
Boss 2-3/4 #4s
Good series.